View Full Version : Is alchemy too personal?

01-03-2009, 12:56 PM
This is a Phoenix-thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=7) from the old site (http://alchemy-forums.forumotion.com/forum.htm).

In any occult or esoteric field none is so prone to solitude as the alchemist (or a person interested in alchemy). In a Satanism forum people can't shut up about their thoughts and feelings about a certain subject (probably because Satanism has a lot to do with Ego), but in an alchemy forum or discussion board people are less willing to share or explain or divulge things. I am not saying that anyone here on Alchemy Forums (http://www.alchemyforums.com) are suffering from this as I have seen it on many other fourms who have sections semi-dedicated to alchemy. One even closed down after only a few weeks because of this fear of others and their thoughts!

Is the Sacred Art still suffering from the secrecy-plague? Or is it simply too personal (especially when spiritual alchemy is concerned)?

I hope not, that would be silly. I am willing to give all I find out away free of charge. If alchemists in the 15th century could have had access to the internet and our lack of religious threats then the whole human race would probably have evolved further than we have at this point. At least that is my theory.

Open up!

Also I would like to add my disgust for dogma... there is no certain right or wrong in alchemy! If a person has all the answers to this forgotten artform I am sure this person would not busy him or herself by visiting this place (but if they do please don't keep the gnosis to yourself)!

I honestly don't think it should be anymore. I think we need all the help we can get ( and I don't mean ALchemists, I mean people in general...) and a support system is beneficial in so many ways (Psychology major talking...)
You can say that again!

Like sheep lost in a storm...

People were downright disturbed when I started sharing my experiences and oracular insights....people just can't handle real magick.

Well, there's a few. I am happy to share on here Deviadah, I just have to find a little more time, I've been so busy lately...

Here I am late to get ready for another party (this one I actually might enjoy though, as it is at one of my favorite restaurants).

I came here to post some other little snippet, but I was planning on delving into some deeper matter here eventually, when the time is right.
Take your time... quality before quantity is my motto!

And personal does not mean we have to give out our telephone number, just share knowledge and I know this is nothing that you are afraid of. To tell you the truth people who horde knowledge like some horde money makes me fucking want to hurl blood!

Society is not a ratrace, but a packrat-race!

Gnosis for all, for the greater good of mankind... always!
Well it's not so much not wanting to share - sure, I suppose I once had misgivings and self consciousness concerning certain issues, for fear of judgement, but this has passed. Now it is more like, people being upset about hearing about sex and so on, and I think alchemy is very sexually charged in the very language. You don't see that openly discussed, and I think it's because of social prejudice, whereas in Hinduism sex is very open, and in Buddhism, tantric arts are researched and practiced even at the highest echelons of Buddhist monastic society (wisdom consorts) If westrn alchemy would just get over itself we would have a much easier time of it.

The marriage of east and west affords some great ideas to emerge.
Well an Alchemical Wedding is often followed by a wedding night... so sex is important. Alchemy deals with forces of energy, and sex is one such force. We should really have a topic on Sex & Alchemy (or Tantric Alchemy) in Spiritus Vitae (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79)... feel free to open it up!
I've come across more Elitism in alchemical circles on the Web!

Anyone else seen this crap?

When will adults grow up (or is it perhaps kids behind adult avatars)?

There has been no incident on these forums, I am talking about elsewhere...
Silence unworthy one, you are not ready to dine on my philosophical secrets!

Just Kidding, yeah I know what you mean, its like a bunch of hackers at a defcon meeting, nobody wants to share idea's, how to get dead silence, put a load of alchemists in a room together. LOL

But in some respects thats not a bad thing, I've seen one guy on this forum attempting to manufacture a spgaric sorcerers stone and two of the ingrediants he was going to use (or has used) will kill him in a few hours flat.

People need to acknowledge that their are dangers inherant in everything, like herbalism and alchemy, with herbs you can poison yourself in a variety of ways and die some very unpleasent deaths and likewise in alchemy you can blow yourself and your naighbours to kingdom come or poison yourself from comming into contact with things like Mercury and Silver Nitrate not to mention various gases given off by chemical reaction and reagents. Caution MUST be observed in these practices, it is not for a dabler to try at home in his kitchen unless he has a firm grasp of what hes handling and even then he should open the windows and wear the correct protective apron and eyewear. I got iron oxide in my eyes once and it was one of the most painful experiances of my life!

I still remember the words in the Jolly Rodgers cook-book under the section about gun-powder, it said and I quote "DON'T SMOKE!" yet you would be amased how meny people over-look or ignore such sound advice!

Heres an example of one that is commonly overlooked, house hold flour, yes the stuff you make bread from, in the factorys where its produced a naked flame is totally forbidden! Know why? When its a dust hanging in the air, it becomes a potent explosive.

The creation of nitric acid is akin to the creation of nitro-glycerine, take heed all who read these words...

It just might extend your life a little longer than the pursuit of the elixir.

You wont catch me drinking Ormus or ORMES either, for one thing its advised by its creator as being made from Sea-Water, appart from the huge ammounts of toxic waste that go into the sea on a yearly basis, I have seen it advertised as containing amongst other things Boron and Silicon.

Ingesting such material in its raw state is pure folly, he also advertises it as a plant food, now that I can agree with, put it on the roses, as someone who has a green thumb I can think of another thing I put on my roses every year and you wont catch me putting that in a glass and drinking it.

A quick search on google reveals that poisoning yourself with Silver is infact a possibility and a huge Toxicity sheet can be seen here; http://www.silvermedicine.org/safety2.html

01-03-2009, 12:57 PM
Heres an example of one that is commonly overlooked, house hold flour, yes the stuff you make bread from, in the factorys where its produced a naked flame is totally forbidden! Know why? When its a dust hanging in the air, it becomes a potent explosive.
Yes.. one has to be careful with practical alchemy, but also with spiritual. The mind can blow up just as easily as the body... and mental suffering can be just as painful as physical.

But the rewards is worth it in the end I think!

Just don't put innocent people in danger... for instance I would not like to have an alchemical lab if I lived in a flat!
I am only looking to lay my hands of two substances;

.9999% Gold in a 1 - Troy Oz
The same in silver.

Going to set-up a smelting pot in the back garden and fuse the two, this gives me Electrum, which is a non-castable substance. Said by John Dee to be niether a mineral nor a metal.

Then you just need Aqua Sulphuris for the final stage, or at least according to his manucript and you just heat the two in solution.

Then all my work will conclude in the garden shed.. (with me standing well away from any clouds comming off the two)

I'll send the results off for analisis if I come up with something.

And try watering it on the flowers, see what happens

I'm thinking youd crush the final two to a powder to extract the essence (salts) and then just heat it slowly on a low heat.

Black, White, Red.

Black in this case being the darkness, white the color of our powder, red the color of a very stong solution of sulphric acid 99.5%

Acid does intreastingly enough turn silver black!

You could always just drop 50mg of the raw electrum it wouldnt kill you, but silver poisoning would result if you repeated the dosage.

Arguably their one pursuit was in the quest for obtaining gold from a powder and like wise silver, that can easily be obtained by simply using common household salt on the electrum to seperate the gold from the silver.

Easy to see why people where amazed at such a feat, the alchemist can manufacture gold and silver, but the gold and silver where already their to begin with, its one of just meny secrets.
While I wholeheartedly understand the need, or rather desire, for a more open and clearly spoken understanding of alchemy, I fear this will never be the case. The only hope you have of that information being readily gleamed for the masses is if you believe in the Elias the Artist prophecy. But you should also understand the reason why these men are called the Elect, is because they are all Elias Artista...or Elijah from the Hebrew Bible, which is associated with Helios cabalistically. This is why Fulcanelli dedicates his books to the Brothers of Heliopolis, a select fraternity- and like all fraternities there is a ritual or trial which anyone who would be select must endure. Please understand I speak more metaphorically here, there is no building or meeting in which these men would congregate to impart their trial by fire on the would be candidate, their part is passive in all this. What it takes is real work, there are no free rides in this- but my joy comes from the discovery of every atom part involved with alchemy...this is the ritual, the trial comes in actuating the theory. Only after you have truly completed the work can you hold yourself in company with- and be brother to the Elect. And I am wholly of the same opinion as the many alchemists are, that this knowledge is only gleamed or given by God. I could give many reasons why you would never find, in plain language, the ideas found in alchemy readily available in book form, but I think Philalethes does a better job below showing this. Mind you they didn't just keep these secrets from the masses for fear of life and limb from the church, monarchy, or mob- nor Marantha rained upon them from the sages...but because it is contrary to Gods will- do not cast your pearls before swine. I find it astounding that one could ceaselessly study this art for years and not be any closer to the truth, yet someone as young as Philalethes was able to discover it at the age of twenty-three. The Philosophers say with great Truth, that the Lapis Philosophorum either finds a good man or makes one. These words from Bacstrom, only confirm it for me- that this is not something so profane you could readily purchase in our instant society. Be prepared to work for it, pray to God for insight, and read only true writings and avoid all false teachings- this is what the alchemists repeatedly say if you would ever progress in this art. If it were so easy we'd all be reading or following the work of Steve Kalec, Frater Albertus, Dennis Hauck, Kamala Jnana, Robert Bartlett, Art Kunkin, Nicholas ********, or David Hudsons work and be content...their writings are without metaphor, allegory or cabalistic twist...but their writings also lack truth with regard to alchemy however much they profess otherwise. If any of those men stand out in the annals of alchemy it would only be in the same way that Charles the German, Leo of Rome, or Mesva did before them...now who are these alchemist you ask....exactly!

Paracelsus (Concerning the Tincture of...): And although these may by the Lord God be made manifest to anyone, still, the rumour of this Art does not on that account at once break forth, but the Almighty gives therewith the understanding how to conceal these and other like arts even to the coming of Elias the Artist, at which time there shall be nothing so occult that it shall not be revealed.

Philalethes (Open Entrance): So long as the secret is possessed by a comparatively small number of philosophers, their lot is anything but a bright and happy one; surrounded as we are on every side by the cruel greed and -- the prying suspicion of the multitude, we are doomed, like Cain, to wander over the earth homeless and friendless. Not for us are the soothing influences of domestic happiness; not for us the delightful confidences of friendship. Men who covet our golden secret pursue us from place to place, and fear closes our lips, when love tempts us to open ourselves freely to a brother. Thus we feel prompted at times to burst forth into the desolate exclamation of Cain: "Whoever finds me will slay me." Yet we are not the murderers of our brethren; we are anxious only to do good to our fellow-men. But even our kindness and charitable compassion are rewarded with black ingratitude- ingratitude that cries to heaven for vengeance. It was only a short time ago that, after visiting the plague-stricken haunts of a certain city, and restoring the sick to perfect health by means of my miraculous medicine, I found myself surrounded by a yelling mob, who demanded that I should give to them my Elixir of the Sages; and it was only by changing my dress and my name, by shaving off my beard and putting on a wig, that I was enabled to save my life, and escape from the hands of those wicked men. And even when our lives are not threatened, it is not pleasant to find-ourselves, wherever we go, the central objects of human greed... I know of several persons who were found strangled in their beds, simply because they were suspected of possessing this secret, though, in reality, they knew no more about it than their murderers; it was enough for some desperate ruffians, that a mere whisper of suspicion had been breathed against their victims. Men are so eager to have this Medicine that your very caution will arouse their suspicions, and endanger your safety. Again, if you desire to sell any large quantity of your gold and silver, you will be unable to do so without imminent risk of discovery. The very fact that anyone has a great mass of bullion for sale would in most places excite suspicion. This feeling will be strengthened when people test the quality of our gold; for it is much finer and purer than any of the gold which is brought from Barbary, or from the Guinea Coast; and our silver is better even than that which is conveyed home by the Spanish silver fleet. If, in order to baffle discovery, you mix these precious metals with alloy, you render yourself liable, in England and- Holland at least, to capital punishment; for in those countries no one is permitted to tamper with the precious metals except the officers of the mint, and the licensed goldsmiths. I remember once going, in the disguise of a foreign merchant to a goldsmith's shop, and offering him 600 pounds worth of our pure silver for sale. He subjected it to the usual tests, and then said: "This silver is artificially prepared." When I asked him why he thought so, his answer was: "I am not a novice in my profession, and know very well the exact quality of the silver which is brought from the different mines." When I heard these words I took myself away with great secrecy and dispatch, leaving the silver in the hands of the goldsmith. On this account, and by reason of the many and great difficulties which beset us, the possessors of this Stone, on every side, we do elect to remain hidden, and will communicate the Art to those who are worthily covetous of our secrets, and then mark what public good will befall.

But then again, you never know....

Paracelsus: For this purpose I have been chosen by God to extinguish and blot out all the phantasies of elaborate and false works, of delusive and presumptuous words, be they the words of Aristotle, Galen, Avicenna, Mesva, or the dogmas of any among their followers. My theory, proceeding as it does from the light of Nature, can never, through its consistency, pass away or be changed: but in the fifty-eighth year after its millennium and a half it will then begin to flourish. The practice at the same time following upon the theory will be proved by wonderful and incredible signs, so as to be open to mechanics and common people, and they will thoroughly understand how firm and immovable is that Paracelsic Art against the triflings of the Sophists: though meanwhile that sophistical science has to have its ineptitude propped up and fortified
by papal and imperial privileges.
I do not know who you are carabric, but your list of modern alchemists who you have happily assumed do *not* posses any alchemy knowledge of worth is quite disgusting if I do say so myself. How ugly a person you must be to judge so many others so harshly, when you yourself are the only liar here.

And who am I? *** -- Nicholas D. ********

And what do I teach? 100% TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone has the right to their opinion here at Alchemy Forums, but not using the tone YOU are using. Keep discussions civil, and no Paradigm bashing!

Also no spamming!

Also when in the public eye you got to be aware that some folks will like what you do, and some will not like it. Instead of shouting that you have the truth partake in discussions, tell your side of the story AND prove yourself with your knowledge rather than just saying you know it all.

For someone who has created the Stone you act like you have not!
Thank you Deviadah, I enjoy this forum very much and am never here to insult. I'm not a teacher like ***, in fact- I do not teach, I parley.

Reply to *** (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=156)