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True Initiate
10-13-2009, 08:11 PM
I have been reading about the Great work and pondering "how can it be that something supposedly so "easy" in the reality can be so complicated and difficult to achieve and understand?".

"Woman's work and child's play" philospher's call their Magnum Opus but does it really have anything to do with the "easiness"(you know, American way :D)?!
No my friend's that is a false assumption and misconception of the modern "thought"!
Here is the true explanation of this puzzle:

Source: John Pharamund Rhumelius "Spagyric Medicine"

http://img127.imagevenue.com/loc216/th_64321_1-new_122_216lo.jpg (http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=64321_1-new_122_216lo.jpg)

So you see the old masters had something very different in mind when they have spoken about women and children.In medieval and ancient times they had very different opinions what the role of the women in the society should be!

Take care.

horticult
10-14-2009, 04:16 PM
Golden times; and America should awake really quick.
This first part is clear /but not telling anything new or helping/, but what about child's play?

True Initiate
10-14-2009, 05:27 PM
Well i suppose playing with the fire or "stones" or playing it with your life if you will. :D

horticult
10-14-2009, 09:48 PM
They are /boys/ pictured on "horses" and with pinwheels.

True Initiate
10-14-2009, 11:10 PM
This first part is clear /but not telling anything new or helping/, but what about child's play?

Well it was very helpfull to me because you don't know how many discussion's i've had about this sentence.Everybody told me how the process from Roger Caro (for example) can be the true process when it is so difficult and the work is supossed to be "easy"?

Well we know now that is not the case anymore, so forget about simple processes be ready for the work of Hercules and Vulcan.

Joy
10-16-2009, 08:19 PM
The children in the street put water on the dust and make a mud out of it.

Regulating fire , a child play, children also turn the upside down, to see what it brings.

Sure we follow the leads and hints from the masters, but don`t we have a brain of
our own.

What Fulcanelli learnd in 25 years, he showed one of his pupils in one year.

What would be, if we take all the knowlege of the different sages, as a basement,
and develop our own ideas on that?

Are we only a machine which follow programms, or teaching ways, or try to unfold
old riddles, or are we products of a new path of evolution, which works in gaining
consciousness ?

Well I am still a child, exploring the world, turning the upsite down, unfolding magic.

Awani
12-05-2009, 04:07 PM
In medieval and ancient times they had very different opinions what the role of the women in the society should be!

I like this concept that women clean (purify) and children play (imagine)... that is all we need to perform a mental (re)-evolution. Considering the state of the world it is indeed a man's world. Sigh!

:cool:

LeoRetilus
12-06-2009, 04:08 AM
They are /boys/ pictured on "horses" and with pinwheels.

I suppose we are refering the this: WOMANS'S WORK
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/21.jpg

And this: CHILD"S PLAY
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/20.jpg

Well in my opinion the Woman's work can be perceived to mean involving alot of monotonous repetitive work such as cleaning and purifing, perhaps through repeated distillations and separations. Could the women be also collecting dew?

Then after all the work is done and the preparations made and the matters joined the work then becomes child's play, which is mostly just doing alot of waiting. Notice the flasks with the golden liquid sitting around the room.
Just my opinion though which can be taken with a grain of philosophical salt.

solomon levi
12-06-2009, 04:27 AM
The pinwheels seem symbolic of rotations/revolutions/eagles.
This is the part of fermenting the medicine and multiplying the stone.
The same work is done over and over.


The initial phase of alchemic work is a labor of Hercules.
It is only later that we get to women's work and child's play.

If we are referring to the dry antimony path of Flamel and Philalethes,
There is this constant pounding, mixing and firing of the matter, first with
the antimony regulus, then with mercury. Philalethes eventually found
a way he could do two eagles in one day. That's still a lot of work.

After we add our gold to the prepared animated mercury, then it is just
cooking and pinwheels.

True Initiate
09-07-2010, 07:00 AM
I want to add that the "Womans work" also aplies for the Gross work until the First Matter is separated into it's principles.The childs play symbolizes the second work of conjuction.

LeoRetilus
09-07-2010, 10:07 AM
Or consider for a moment that it is very, very simple and they were refering to a common earth/soil/dirt /clay,........ children play with dirt and women work to wash it out.

scottaleger
08-12-2011, 11:41 AM
what is this in image , this is not working or opened

chrysopoeia
06-30-2012, 05:14 AM
It must be a play on words. For the path is in fact exceedingly difficult.

Krisztian
06-30-2012, 06:09 AM
For me, this phrase has a very special meaning in my approach to alchemy, "Woman's work and child's play".

Coming from the Old Country, born and raised in Eastern Europe, we have many similar sayings. It's quote common to express wisdom like so.

Men were rough and masculine void of gentle, caring, and femininity in their approaches. Woman's work means to be in touch with the object like a subject, intuitively! Child's play means remembering to be a child, simple yet playful. People don't make The Stone Roger Caro made, they fail because they're too complicated! Intuition is needed for guidance. And people just can't think in simplicity. It's in their brochure that they have shown the method to make the Stone, but people keep complicating it!

chrysopoeia
06-30-2012, 08:02 AM
For me, this phrase has a very special meaning in my approach to alchemy, "Woman's work and child's play".

Coming from the Old Country, born and raised in Eastern Europe, we have many similar sayings. It's quote common to express wisdom like so.

Men were rough and masculine void of gentle, caring, and femininity in their approaches. Woman's work means to be in touch with the object like a subject, intuitively! Child's play means remembering to be a child, simple yet playful. People don't make The Stone Roger Caro made, they fail because they're too complicated! Intuition is needed for guidance. And people just can't think in simplicity. It's in their brochure that they have shown the method to make the Stone, but people keep complicating it!


This is interesting, Krisztian. Without revealing anything you do not wish to, could you give an example of such a saying?

The reference to women's work could also have something to do with the symbolic images brought about during certain stages of the work, e.g. washing, cooking and roasting (http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640). Not having so much to do with any kind of 'easiness', for it is not an easy process.

Krisztian
06-30-2012, 07:01 PM
This is interesting, Krisztian. Without revealing anything you do not wish to, could you give an example of such a saying? The reference to women's work could also have something to do with the symbolic images brought about during certain stages of the work, e.g. URL="http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640"]washing, cooking and roasting[/URL]. Not having so much to do with any kind of 'easiness', for it is not an easy process.

For me, that saying is a reminder, a guideline; one could say how to approach practical alchemy. A text might suggest keeping the heat at 28.5 Celsius (i.e., inside an incubator) for a Philosopher's Month; but when one factors in the cooler room temperature (from one season to the next), you 'realize' intuitively like a 'mother does of her crying child', that the heat must be raised to compensate for the interaction of the room with the incubator. For an adult childless, a cry is just annoyance; for a mother, it speaks plenty about what the child wants!

Sayings from the Old Country like the one in this Thread, don't mean anything very profound in a way, that's more for a modern, intellectual mind. When you lived in the Old Country, and majority of the alchemical texts come from that area of the World, you realize that the concept of 'complication', 'intellectual word-play', 'abstract labels', 'fancy Far East terminology', labyrinth-like theories, etc., don't apply to that consciousness of that time. (That's a modern mind suffering from inferiority complex! So, it invents meaningless concepts, words, etc. that boost the personality but mean very little in practical life.)

Child's play refers to a state of mind that can perceive, play with, operations, in a simple manner.

P.s. It's just my interpretation. Every one must find their own. Ask someone who comes from that part of the World what they think?

zoas23
07-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Maybe the beauty of the phrase is that it has a lot of meanings, so "discovering the REAL meaning" and getting stuck with only that one is probably missleading.

An artist I like a lot and whose works are certainly related to Alchemy, Marcel Duchamp, had a very nice practice: each time someone made an interpretation or a theory about the meaning of one of his works and asked him if that was what the work meant to mean, he would reply: "yes".

Also, in the Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz, Venus is working and Eros is always playing tricks on C.R.

Also, Sophia is often a woman, but the genius is often a kid.

Also, Isis and Horus (or Harpocrates)

Also, the text was obviously written by an adult male who assumed that his audience were other adult males (women and kids were somehow outsiders during medieval times)... so I don't discard at all the tongue in cheek intention of the phrase (i.e, telling an adult male that he has to be both woman and a kid).

Also: "yes" to the previous posts... :)

Krisztian
07-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Maybe the beauty of the phrase is that it has a lot of meanings, so "discovering the REAL meaning" and getting stuck with only that one is probably missleading.

During my morning meditation, I reached for an open book on the floor (to place it on shelf; I must have left it behind some weeks back); and it was open on page 393 (of Roob's Alchemy & Mysticism) to the phrase: "Women's work & child's play". So, I figured it's significant to write what it said:

'The "whitening" of the black matter after phase of nigredo, shown as "women's work"'.

It shows a Plate from Splendor Solis.

Andro
07-01-2012, 07:09 PM
'The "whitening" of the black matter after phase of nigredo, shown as "women's work"'.

Women's work and child's play... Possibly also an allegory for 'The White Woman' and 'The Red Child'... Who knows...

May interpretations are possible... Not unlike songs/poetry...

zoas23
07-01-2012, 07:57 PM
During my morning meditation, I reached for an open book on the floor (to place it on shelf; I must have left it behind some weeks back); and it was open on page 393 (of Roob's Alchemy & Mysticism) to the phrase: "Women's work & child's play". So, I figured it's significant to write what it said:

'The "whitening" of the black matter after phase of nigredo, shown as "women's work"'.

It shows a Plate from Splendor Solis.

The Splendor Solis is actually quoting the Turba Philosophorum, in which the phrase comes from Socrates' mouth... I'm quoting the whole of that intervention by Socrates as to have a more complete context here.


The Sixteenth Dictum.
SOCRATES saith: Know, O crowd of those that still remain of the Sons of the Doctrine, that no tincture can be produced without Lead, which possesses the required virtue. Have ye not seen how thrice-great Hermes infused the red into the body, and it was changed into an invariable colour ? Know, therefore, that the first virtue is vinegar, and the second is the Lead of which the Wise have spoken, which if it be infused into all bodies, renders all unchangeable, and tinges them with an invariable colour. Take, therefore, Lead which is made out of the stone called Kuhul; let it be of the best quality, and let it be cooked till it becomes black. Then pound the same with Water of Nitre until it is thick like grease, and cook again in a very bright fire until the spissitude of the body is destroyed, the water being rejected. Kindle, therefore, above it until the stone becomes clean, abounding in precious metal, and exceedingly white. Pound it afterwards with dew and the sun, and with sea and rain water for 21 days, for 10 days with salt water, and 10 days with fresh water, when ye shall find the same like to a metallic stone. Cook the same once more with water of nitre until it become tin
by liquefaction. Again cook until it be deprived of moisture, and become dry. But know that when it becomes dry it drinks up what remains of its humour swiftly, because it is burnt lead. Take care, however, lest it be burnt. Thus we call it incombustible sulphur. Pound the same with the sharpest vinegar, and cook till it becomes thick, taking care lest the vinegar be changed into smoke and perish ; continue this coction for 150 days. Now, therefore, I have demonstrated the
disposition of the white lead, all which afterwards follows being no more than women's work and child's play. Know, also, that the arcanum of the work of gold proceeds out of the male and the female, but I have shewn you the male in the lead, while, in like manner, I have discovered for you the female in orpiment. Mix, therefore, the orpiment with the lead, for the female rejoices in receiving the strength of the male, because she is assisted by the male.
But the male receives a tingeing spirit from the female. Mix them, therefore, together, place in a glass vessel, and pound with Ethelia and very sharp vinegar ; cook for seven days, taking care lest the arcanum smoke away, and leave
throughout the night. But if ye wish it to put on mud (colour), seeing that it is already dry, again imbue with vinegar. Now, therefore, I have notified to you the power of orpiment, which is the woman by whom is accomplished the most great arcanum.
Do not shew these unto the evil, for they will laugh. It is the Ethelia of vinegar which is placed in the preparation, by which things God perfects the work, whereby also spirits take possession of bodies, and they become spiritual.

chrysopoeia
07-02-2012, 02:34 AM
It shows a Plate from Splendor Solis.

Yes, it is this plate (http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640).

Krisztian
07-02-2012, 03:07 AM
Yes, it is this plate (http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640).

You're a good man, chrysopoeia. I knew someone clever will find the Plate. What an interesting depiction?

Krisztian
07-02-2012, 03:08 AM
Yes, it is this plate (http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640).

Have you studied in detail Splendor Solis?

chrysopoeia
07-02-2012, 08:33 AM
I have not studied it in detail, Krisztian.

The reference to women's work and child's play could also have other meaning.
Women’s work may seem to imply subordinate work like washing, cooking, roasting. And child's play implies something easy. Yet interestingly, what you are doing in the alchemy is producing a child. It is like a pregnancy and birth. And it is a Great Work.

solomon levi
07-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Some pictures are absent from earlier posts, but sometimes there are children depicted playing with pinwheels.
In that context, it is hard for me to imagine anything other than rotation of the elements, swastika/sun, fire...
I'm not sure where to find these images related to alchemy, but I've seen them.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDp3sYBJPrNMFonC4kQOUDgLAUA655R EpxZmwrlLwo0SAmaxI5

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images/desco_da_parto.jpg

chrysopoeia
07-02-2012, 01:40 PM
...

Krisztian
07-02-2012, 04:14 PM
Have you studied it?

Interesting reflection.

I'm more comfortable with Crowing of Nature, Mutus Liber and Seven Keys of Honoratus Marinier. I made some what would be fair to say, superficial observations about Splendor Solis in the past. Yes, I have used Fourth Treatise I (Plate 12) to VII (Plate 18) for meditation purposes.

Mutus Liber was my adopted child for about a year. I keep the third mentioned manuscript for reference-sake. I am completely absorbed by Crowning of Nature at the moment! Each Plate seem to render well to meditation and I believe it holds value in laboratory work.

Check my Profile, look under 'Albums' specifically 'Lábmunkám' and you'll find photos of how I attempt to have a relationship with these beautiful manuscripts. I'll post photos of Crowning of Nature series of Plates soon. The layout is important!

P.s. I'm leaving for vacation soon. Allow some time before I post; if you're interested.

chrysopoeia
07-03-2012, 10:58 AM
Quite interesting texts that you have listed. I will check your profile.

Mine were just superficial observations about Splendor Solis not to be taken seriously as I have not studied it.

Bel Matina
07-03-2012, 12:32 PM
I tend to write the symbols for Ouroboros and Mercury (or Niter, depending on my whim) respectively over "women" and "child" when I encounter that phrase in a book I own. That seems to be in pretty good agreement with what most other people have written here.

I have a copy of the Turba translated by Waite, but I'm holding off on reading it until I get my hands on a copy in Arabic. I feel a little shaky interpreting the phrase in its context in the Turba, especially after two translations. In its context in Splendor Solis, it works so well both as jargon and metaphor that it makes me suspect it has that depth in the Turba as well.

At risk of being pedantic, I feel like unpacking that, for the benefit of neophytes if nothing else. Most of our terms were originally coined as metaphors in one context or another, but after being adopted and reused in other texts a few times, they picked up special meaning as jargon terms; not out of some conspiracy but because that's just the way natural language works. More plainly (and speaking for the benefit of neophytes) they became for all intents and purposes new words, with special meaning related to the old meaning only by accident of its origin. This alone would not be such a barrier to learning the terms of the art, but one of the oldest and most cherished didactic strategies in our tradition is the Instructive Double Entendre. Because of this tagma, the literature is full of phrases like "women's work and child's play," which work, both in their plain sense as jargon terms, and in a metaphorical sense as plain terms. The same metaphor jargonization process can, and frequently does, happen with these double entendre metaphors, leading to all the double jargon terms (and triple, and quadruple, etc... *cough cough* "mercury") that so characterize our literature and make it impenetrable to the uninitiated. You can see this process very visibly at work where you see the jargon term "our", used to distinguish the jargon sense of a word from the plain sense. One author gives the plain sense a metaphorical meaning, and it really only takes one quotation for "(vulgar) X" and "our X" both to take on jargon meaning, and "our" itself has aquired a new jargon meaning: it can distinguish two homophonous jargon terms. I know there are people who invest a lot of ego in how difficult it is to acquire any degree of fluency in interpreting our literature, but that difficulty has much more to do with this natural linguistic process in our history than any particular concerted desire or ideal to hide the nature of the art. (and now you're wondering if I'm using "our" in the vulgar sense, or am I coining or quoting "literature" and "history" as jargon terms, or am I distinguishing between two jargon meanings you've never heard of for each of these terms?) You could cut out all of the synonyms and settle on an unambiguous jargon vocabulary, and with greater or lesser degrees of success and clarity many have made the attempt, but our tradition has been extremely varied in its ideas and practices for nearly two millenia (counting from the Alexandrian diaspora), and any such attempt comes at the cost of ignoring all of that.

To illustrate with "women's work/child's play", in the jargon sense we are "working" on the "woman"/the "woman" is doing "work", and the "child" is... well okay, I've never heard of play as a jargon term; in the plain sense, "women's work" in the cultural milieu that generated both the Turba and Splendor Solis was cleaning, cooking, washing laundry, and we need to continue to "wash" the "stone", and "cook" it, and we must continue working until we have left no mess. "Child's play" doesn't yield such a handy list of associated jargon terms that I can think of, but I would point out, in agreement with what's been said, that children will pull coherent activity out of a vacuum of understanding of what to make of their environment, even if you try to provide that coherence for them. I think there's a lot of depth to get into for people engaged in the red work; that phrase is really a gem.

Ironically, as I've transitioned into that "women's work" part of the white work, the tangible sign has been an increase in the regularity and effectiveness of my housecleaning (in the plain sense) as those salts become clarified and fixed to the stone (in the jargon sense).

I don't mind being called out if I strayed too far off topic!

solomon levi
07-03-2012, 12:51 PM
I really enjoyed reading that Bel Matina.

I never made the association:
First we have the man - the labors of hercules.
Then woman's work
and child's play

Man, woman, child - Osiris, Isis, Horus - sun, moon, earth - hermes, aphrodite, hermaphrodite...

Bel Matina
07-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Thank you, Solomon Levi. I've found your posts to be quite engrossing.

Yes, those are exactly the correspondences I'm talking about. Put another way, from black to red we kill the man, his mother cleans him and buries him in her womb (the woman works and is worked upon), and reborn as a new child he emerges into the sunlight to play.

The play end of it is much more weighty than it sounds. If you've ever seen a child in play make vast worlds of their imagining out of mess and vacuity, then you've caught some glimpse of what the art promises as its end product. Consider the tower made out of leavings, or the box that is more than a box. Such imagination can move worlds.

Krisztian
07-04-2012, 12:54 AM
I tend to write the symbols for Ouroboros and Mercury (or Niter, depending on my whim) respectively over "women" and "child" when I encounter that phrase in a book I own. That seems to be in pretty good agreement with what most other people have written here.

I have a copy of the Turba translated by Waite, but I'm holding off on reading it until I get my hands on a copy in Arabic. I feel a little shaky interpreting the phrase in its context in the Turba, especially after two translations. In its context in Splendor Solis, it works so well both as jargon and metaphor that it makes me suspect it has that depth in the Turba as well.

At risk of being pedantic, I feel like unpacking that, for the benefit of neophytes if nothing else. Most of our terms were originally coined as metaphors in one context or another, but after being adopted and reused in other texts a few times, they picked up special meaning as jargon terms; not out of some conspiracy but because that's just the way natural language works. More plainly (and speaking for the benefit of neophytes) they became for all intents and purposes new words, with special meaning related to the old meaning only by accident of its origin. This alone would not be such a barrier to learning the terms of the art, but one of the oldest and most cherished didactic strategies in our tradition is the Instructive Double Entendre. Because of this tagma, the literature is full of phrases like "women's work and child's play," which work, both in their plain sense as jargon terms, and in a metaphorical sense as plain terms. The same metaphor jargonization process can, and frequently does, happen with these double entendre metaphors, leading to all the double jargon terms (and triple, and quadruple, etc... *cough cough* "mercury") that so characterize our literature and make it impenetrable to the uninitiated. You can see this process very visibly at work where you see the jargon term "our", used to distinguish the jargon sense of a word from the plain sense. One author gives the plain sense a metaphorical meaning, and it really only takes one quotation for "(vulgar) X" and "our X" both to take on jargon meaning, and "our" itself has aquired a new jargon meaning: it can distinguish two homophonous jargon terms. I know there are people who invest a lot of ego in how difficult it is to acquire any degree of fluency in interpreting our literature, but that difficulty has much more to do with this natural linguistic process in our history than any particular concerted desire or ideal to hide the nature of the art. (and now you're wondering if I'm using "our" in the vulgar sense, or am I coining or quoting "literature" and "history" as jargon terms, or am I distinguishing between two jargon meanings you've never heard of for each of these terms?) You could cut out all of the synonyms and settle on an unambiguous jargon vocabulary, and with greater or lesser degrees of success and clarity many have made the attempt, but our tradition has been extremely varied in its ideas and practices for nearly two millenia (counting from the Alexandrian diaspora), and any such attempt comes at the cost of ignoring all of that.

To illustrate with "women's work/child's play", in the jargon sense we are "working" on the "woman"/the "woman" is doing "work", and the "child" is... well okay, I've never heard of play as a jargon term; in the plain sense, "women's work" in the cultural milieu that generated both the Turba and Splendor Solis was cleaning, cooking, washing laundry, and we need to continue to "wash" the "stone", and "cook" it, and we must continue working until we have left no mess. "Child's play" doesn't yield such a handy list of associated jargon terms that I can think of, but I would point out, in agreement with what's been said, that children will pull coherent activity out of a vacuum of understanding of what to make of their environment, even if you try to provide that coherence for them. I think there's a lot of depth to get into for people engaged in the red work; that phrase is really a gem.

Ironically, as I've transitioned into that "women's work" part of the white work, the tangible sign has been an increase in the regularity and effectiveness of my housecleaning (in the plain sense) as those salts become clarified and fixed to the stone (in the jargon sense).

I don't mind being called out if I strayed too far off topic!

That's the beauty of symbolism in alchemy, each sees something unique and worthwhile. Thanks for posting your observations.

chrysopoeia
07-05-2012, 03:11 AM
Interesting reflection.

Check my Profile, look under 'Albums' specifically 'Lábmunkám' and you'll find photos of how I attempt to have a relationship with these beautiful manuscripts. I'll post photos of Crowning of Nature series of Plates soon. The layout is important!

P.s. I'm leaving for vacation soon. Allow some time before I post; if you're interested.

Fascinating. Thank you. I really should start studying these manuscripts. Are you familiar with Johann Ambrosius Seibmacher's The Waterstone of the Wise (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/hydrolit.html)? I came across it after I had already begun practising alchemy.

Ghislain
07-05-2012, 05:26 AM
Could it be that a Woman's Work is that of a caring mother and Child's Play is that based on imagination?

I know these were words of old, but today, associating Woman's Work with "cleaning, cooking and
washing", may be considered sexist :confused: A lot of men today have taken on that roll.

If the wise words were to mean something they would have to travel the course of time, I think caring and
imagination do that.

Perhaps it translates to "be caring and let your imagination lead you"

Just a thought.

Ghislain

Andro
07-05-2012, 07:47 PM
Since the last few posts were no longer related to the original topic of 'Women's Work and Child's Play', they have been moved to a new thread:

Corpus Hermeticum - Variations & Mutations Across Languages, Time and Geography (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3003-Corpus-Hermeticum-Variations-Mutations-Across-Languages-Time-and-Geography).

Please, everyone, try to stay on topic, in order to maintain context coherence and to make it easier for other forum readers to find their way around the multitude of areas we are discussing and exploring here.

Thank you.

chrysopoeia
07-06-2012, 12:54 AM
Just an interesting idea. In dreams, children can represent many things including Innocence (The Unexpected) [Wu Wang: I Ching Hexagram 25], Wisdom and Nature with its pure, yet formidable (and dangerous, even destructive) strength.

Child's play could refer to multiplication (multiple images). Multiple images in dreams can refer to a weakening in strength, i.e. fragmentation, or in fact its opposite, a strengthening or strong force, depending on the dream and the dreamer's situation.

Draconisnova
07-08-2012, 11:44 PM
The solution to this riddle is in Atalanta Fugiens emblem 3 and in Fulcanelli Dwellings.

Woman work is washing the matter from their impurities, pass it by clean water to remove all dirt, then dry the white cloths on the Sun, is this "Woman work".

Alchemical speaking, is wash the Prima Materia with is water, pass the result of the washing (salt) by fresh water (from the same origin), then dry this salt by the Sun (internal secret fire).

Krisztian
07-08-2012, 11:50 PM
The solution to this riddle is in Atalanta Fugiens emblem 3 and in Fulcanelli Dwellings.

Woman work is washing the matter from their impurities, pass it by clean water to remove all dirt, then dry the white cloths on the Sun, is this "Woman work".

Alchemical speaking, is wash the Prima Materia with is water, pass the result of the washing (salt) by fresh water (from the same origin), then dry this salt by the Sun (internal secret fire).

Hmmm, I like your formulation.

chrysopoeia
07-09-2012, 12:27 PM
The solution to this riddle is in Atalanta Fugiens emblem 3 and in Fulcanelli Dwellings.
Woman work is washing the matter from their impurities, pass it by clean water to remove all dirt, then dry the white cloths on the Sun, is this "Woman work".
Alchemical speaking, is wash the Prima Materia with is water, pass the result of the washing (salt) by fresh water (from the same origin), then dry this salt by the Sun (internal secret fire).

Thank you. Yes, this kind of reference to woman's work is also in Splendor Solis (http://www.moleiro.com/en/miscellanea/splendor-solis/miniatura/1640).

In 'The Dwellings of the Philosophers' by Fulcanelli, it is written:
"The second way demands, from beginning to end, only the help of a coarse clay abundantly available, of such a low cost that in our time ten francs are sufficient to acquire a quantity more than enough for our needs. It is the clay and the way of the poor, of the simple and the modest, of those whom nature fills with wonder even by her most humble manifestations. Extremely easy, it only requires the presence of the artist, for the mysterious labor perfects itself by itself and is achieved in seven to nine days at the most. This way, unknown to the majority of practicing alchemists, is elaborated from start to finish in one crucible made of fireproof clay. It is the way that the great masters called woman’s work and child’s play; it is to it that they apply the old hermetic axiom: una res, una via, una dispositione. One matter, one vessel, one furnace. Such is our earthen vase, a despised, plain vase of common use, "which everyone has before his eyes, which costs nothing, which can be found at everyone’s house, yet which nonce can recognize without a revelation".

And Atalanta Fugiens Emblem 3 is here (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/atl1-5.html).

Draconisnova
07-21-2012, 11:45 AM
There is no Dry path or short journey, you guys don´t understand what dry path means? You don´t understand why Nicolas Flamell go by foot to S. Tiago de Compostela? What Compostela is my friends? (Stella, star, the star that show the way, the Philosophical mercury our Venus raise over the waters on her shell) only when you have this Philosophical Mercury the hard and long travel will begin, understand my friends that the sages start the GW with the Philosophical Mercury, not the Mercury from were the elements are in a Chaos. The dry path is just another metaphor, and if you believe you can get the stone without great labor and dedications you are totally wrong, and you will always fail, lose your time and money. This is your initiation, the Stone is not the end is the beginning of a longest journey to higher conscious,
Flamell tell us "If you don´t understand my words, don´t blame me" Fulcanelli tells many times the same thing "Can you really understand me?" only when you reach Compostela you will get what you need to start the longest and hardest of travels "by Sea" this is what the sages call the Wet path, that is just when you have your "Vessel" with the Philosophical Stone riding over the wave with a wind blow from back, that is a metaphor for Antimony or Art of Hand. Then now you create your true Rebis joining the Sun with the Moon or join the Dry salt with the wet Mercury (wet Salt from the first repetition of three) look the font of Vertbois, look what the ship transports the cube with 6 faces, look the number of the beast 666, that is a number of a man, 3 repetitions of 6 operations, look the book that Nicolas Flamell describe from Abraham the Jew, with 7 pages plus 3, 7 is the result, 6 is the work. the 3 are the repetitions, look Genesis "God created the world and the Sky and all that exist in 6 days. And at the 7 he rest".

There is no short way unless you already have the stone and that is not "Dry path" is a "Multiplication".

Ora lege lege lege relege labora et invenies.

Krisztian
08-26-2012, 09:24 PM
I wanted to reopen this Thread of good discussion over what the phrase "Women's work and child's play" means. I am currently reading Charnock's Alchemical Letter, and he mentions his interpretation of this very phrase.

He writes: ". . . it is a work of women because women are always at home, and do all their work within doors, and so must we [alchemists] be always at home to tend to our work: and it is a play of children because children will ever be piddling in the ashes and in the fire and so must we" (p. 44).

Any further reflections?

Avatar
08-26-2012, 11:04 PM
Woman's work? Washing. To wash.
That's my take.

Avatar
09-22-2012, 08:44 PM
Washing. And cooking.
Wetting. And drying.
"Had to add the cooking part"

Bel Matina
09-23-2012, 12:20 AM
Home is where the Heart is.

Salazius
09-23-2012, 08:55 AM
Well considering what I know about the Alchemical Path ... It's really easy and in the abilities of a woman's work. Cooking, making bread ... like in the old time it was considered. Child play because ... it's easy. (easy when you know it)

Bel Matina
09-23-2012, 10:31 AM
It's somewhat anachronistic to think that a women's work was easy. Rather, if anything, the power of the image was the contrast between how hard women worked and the abandon with which children played.

On which note another depth of the phrase occurs to me, that it resembles in that sense the Daoist "Wu Wei" - be without being, do without doing, work without working.

Avatar
09-23-2012, 03:25 PM
I use to paint houses. We worked without working.
To me painting houses is easy. Its repetitive work but needs attentiveness.
Washing is repetitive. Cooking takes attentiveness.

True Initiate
09-23-2012, 06:49 PM
It's somewhat anachronistic to think that a women's work was easy. Rather, if anything, the power of the image was the contrast between how hard women worked and the abandon with which children played.


I agree with you 100%!

This metaphor took perverse meaning during 20th Century and it's insulting to women. The Great Work is not easy to accomplish much less it's without danger. Labours of Hercules is also another metaphor for the Women's work.

Draconisnova
10-02-2012, 01:39 PM
A Golden and Blessed Casket of Nature’s Marvels by Benedictus Figulus

The time will vary according as the artist tends his fire diligently or not. For this our work is a true
woman’s or cook’s work. They simmer and boil and roast until the spit is done to a turn; they wash and
dry the linen in the sun until it is snow white. Also this white colour is like unto the earth when dry; then
the corn soon gets white also, and is no far from maturity, viz., from the third colour, the yellow. As soon
as the same appears in the corn it is cut; the winter is past, the rain over, the flowers have appeared,
summer is come, and the turtledove is heard in our land. Thus also is the maturing of our matter, when its
yellow colour appears, As regards its metallic nature, and the perfection of the same, we must bring that
to a higher grade, says Bernhardus, viz., to its red colour, that it may thus communicate to other
imperfect metals some of its superabundant perfection. For this redness is the sign of incorruptibility and
complete digestion.

Lunsola
03-20-2013, 10:01 PM
The hardest part is knowledge and understanding. Having esoteric knowledge in related areas helped me greatly.