PDA

View Full Version : Antimony and Nitre



solomon levi
10-24-2009, 06:56 AM
Here we can discuss any further details on the stibnite and nitre that was
brought up in the gw stone/alkahest thread.

BTW - nitre will fix antimony into a red stone.
I think it was Paracelsus:

Take 2 parts antimony and 1 part nitre.
Melt together and they become fixed and of a red color.


I have that in my notes anyway - haven't tried it myself yet.

memphis_mizraim
10-24-2009, 10:01 AM
I thought it was supposed to be butter of antimony and then put it outside in the Spring to September time of year, it is a powerful magnet to attract the S.M.
You get interesting results.

True Initiate
10-24-2009, 02:33 PM
The same with dew and sea salt. (dew salt is ammonium nitrate)

So yes, I very much agree with you. :)


I will be very carefull with the "sea salt+dew" theory and let me explain you why.
I am in possesion of the original "Leyden" manuscript that comes directly from the private collection of Dr. Sigismond Backstrom in his own writing!
Dr. Backstrom is famous for his "notes" in his book's and manuscripts where he openly reveals the true ingredient's of the Magnum Opus .Most people know this recipe from the Mainly P. Hall's book "Secret teaching's of all ages" but the recipe that is there is incomplete!

So for the first time ever here is the original manuscript!


As you can see in the text there are two important marginal notes on the second page of the document. The first uses symbols and translates as "This salt is antimony" and the second "This dew is Nitre".

http://img216.imagevenue.com/loc557/th_23816_leyden_pg1_122_557lo.jpg (http://img216.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23816_leyden_pg1_122_557lo.jpg)http://img207.imagevenue.com/loc12/th_23819_leyden_pg2_122_12lo.jpg (http://img207.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23819_leyden_pg2_122_12lo.jpg)http://img171.imagevenue.com/loc78/th_23825_leyden_pg3_122_78lo.jpg (http://img171.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23825_leyden_pg3_122_78lo.jpg)http://img198.imagevenue.com/loc625/th_23829_leyden_pg4_122_625lo.jpg (http://img198.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23829_leyden_pg4_122_625lo.jpg)
http://img111.imagevenue.com/loc487/th_23845_leyden_pg5_122_487lo.jpg (http://img111.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23845_leyden_pg5_122_487lo.jpg)http://img261.imagevenue.com/loc145/th_23848_leyden_pg6_122_145lo.jpg (http://img261.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23848_leyden_pg6_122_145lo.jpg)http://img134.imagevenue.com/loc135/th_23850_leyden_pg7_122_135lo.jpg (http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23850_leyden_pg7_122_135lo.jpg)
http://img253.imagevenue.com/loc196/th_23854_leyden_pg8_122_196lo.jpg (http://img253.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23854_leyden_pg8_122_196lo.jpg)http://img233.imagevenue.com/loc184/th_23856_leyden_pg9_122_184lo.jpg (http://img233.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23856_leyden_pg9_122_184lo.jpg)http://img185.imagevenue.com/loc30/th_23860_leyden_pg10_122_30lo.jpg (http://img185.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23860_leyden_pg10_122_30lo.jpg)
http://img152.imagevenue.com/loc45/th_23864_leyden_pg11_122_45lo.jpg (http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=23864_leyden_pg11_122_45lo.jpg)


Continue:

True Initiate
10-24-2009, 02:34 PM
http://img173.imagevenue.com/loc585/th_24573_leyden_pg12_122_585lo.jpg (http://img173.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24573_leyden_pg12_122_585lo.jpg) http://img188.imagevenue.com/loc1129/th_24615_leyden_pg13_122_1129lo.jpg (http://img188.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24615_leyden_pg13_122_1129lo.jpg)htt p://img127.imagevenue.com/loc17/th_24659_leyden_pg14_122_17lo.jpg (http://img127.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24659_leyden_pg14_122_17lo.jpg)http://img228.imagevenue.com/loc536/th_24687_leyden_pg15_122_536lo.jpg (http://img228.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24687_leyden_pg15_122_536lo.jpg)

French Alchemist Patrick Riviere explains in his book what this notes mean(thank's to the user of this forum "Kekring" that provided me this information):

"Il est alors permis de s'interroger : quelle était la nature de cette terre insipide et en quoi consistait la "spécification" que De Saulx avait fait subir â sa rosée précédemment filtrée ?
Si l'on se souvient que le sel de mer auquel fait allusion l'auteur du Testament d'Or provenait de " St Uby" (localité imaginaire) l'allusion pour un hermétiste digne de ce nom est évidente, â la... Stibine !

Mais comment alors concevoir les notions de "sel marin" et de "sulfure d'antimoine", sinon par la notion de chlorure d'antimoine ou plus exactement de beurre d'antimoine...
En effet, celui-ci, d'apparence grasse tel le beurre, est issu de la distillation du mélange d'acide chlorhydrique et de régule d'antimoine ou mieux ici, de stibine, contenent le précieux rouge volatil instable et néanmoins indispensible â notre dessein philosophique. On sait par ailleurs, que si l'on hydrate par quelques gouttes d'eau seulement, le beurre d'antimoine, il se forme immédiatement une substance blanchâtre, nommée " poudre d' Algaroth ". Il ne reste donc plus qu'â appréhender par quel artifice celle-ci puisse acquérir et fixer la volatile couleur rouge tant recherchée... Nous soumettons cette question â la sagacité de l'opérateur averti qui, tôt ou tard, s'il est suffisamment déterminé et inspiré, en flairera l'indubitable réponse.

Finalement, force est de constater, qu'il s'agisse de la matiére identifiée ou du vitryol trés spécifique utilisé par Friedrich von Meyer, envisagé précédemment - du momment que le sel s'marin intervient - la strophe (53e) de l'Hortulus Sacer s'applique rigoureusement â ces "voies alchimiques" authentiques, d'autant plus si elles font intervenir la Rosée de Mai fécondante :

" La Médecine est triple et non vulgaire
Le Vert de gris des sages donne la premiére ;
l'agréable Vénus donne la seconde ;
La troisiéme nait du ciel et de la mer.
La premiére a en effet tous ses feux ;
toutefois elle a besoin d'un autre feu et encore d'un autre,
par lequel elle sera ouverte.
La seconde, â l'instar d'un aimant, attire les vertus du ciel ;
Pour le reste la coction seule suffit.
La troisiéme conjoint les forces du ciel et de la terre
En arrosant le sel marin de la rosée du ciel."

And here is poor translation in Englisch:

"If we remember that the sea salt, which referred the author of the Testament(Leyden) came from "St. Uby" or "St.Uber"(Imaginary place) for the reference hermeticism worthy of the name is obvious, the ... Stibnite!

But how then develop the concepts of "sea salt" and "antimony sulfide", otherwise the notion of antimony chloride or, more exactly, antimony butter ...
Indeed, it apparently fat such as butter, is obtained by distillation from the mixture of hydrochloric acid and regulates antimony or better here, stibnite, the precious red contenente unstable and volatile, however indispensable to our design philosophy.

Also, if you moisturize a few drops of water, butter of antimony, is formed immediately a white substance called "powder of Algaroth". This leaves only apprehend by what artifice it can acquire and fix the volatile red long-sought ... We submit this issue to the sagacity of the operator warned that sooner or later, if it is sufficiently determined and inspired by the unmistakable smell response.

Finally, it is clear, whether the subject identified or very specific vitryol used by Friedrich von Meyer, previously considered - the moment that salt s'marin intervenes - the verse (53e) of Hortulus Sacer strictly apply to these channels alchemically "authentic, especially if they involve the Rose of May fertilizing:

"Medicine is not vulgar and triple
The Green gray sages gives the first;
Venus gives the pleasant the second;
The third born of the sky and the sea
The first effect has all its lights;
however, it needs another fire and yet another,
by which it is open.
The second, like a magnet attracts the virtues of heaven;
For the rest the only coction enough.
The third joint forces of heaven and earth
Basting sea salt with the dew of heaven. "

So you see the vulgar "sea salt" is not the true ingredient of the Leyden process but the "Butter of Antimony".



True Puffer

True Initiate
10-24-2009, 02:36 PM
The third joint forces of heaven and earth
Basting sea salt with the dew of heaven. "


I think i have penetrated the true meaning of this quote.
"Dew of heaven" is in my opinion Nitre and the Earth is just the symbol for Antimony!

Combine Heaven and the Earth!

Heaven = Nitre
Earth = Antimony

Astrological symbol for Earth is:

http://img153.imagevenue.com/loc249/th_41540_antimony-new_122_249lo.jpg (http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41540_antimony-new_122_249lo.jpg)



Get it?

Ghislain
10-25-2009, 12:40 AM
When antimony is mentioned...what form should it be in?

Antimony has four allotropic forms known as grey, black, yellow and explosive.

Only one of the allotropes is stable and found in nature. That configuration is the grey allotrope. This is what people are referring to when they say metallic antimony. Metallic Sb is silvery white and has a bluish or purplish luster.

A common byproduct of mining stibnite ore is gold. Source (http://ezinearticles.com/?Properties-of-Antimony&id=2090105)

Ghislain

True Initiate
10-25-2009, 01:00 AM
When antimony is mentioned...what form should it be in?


It should be in mineral form, Antimony sulfide (Sb2S3).
That is his true ore.

solomon levi
10-25-2009, 01:57 AM
Only one of the allotropes is stable and found in nature. That configuration is the grey allotrope. This is what people are referring to when they say metallic antimony.

Hi Ghislain.

Yes, stibnite - antimony trisulphide. The alchemists called it the "grey wolf"
among other titles. (It's also sometimes the dragon, but depending on the
path, the dragon can be other things too.)
For example, in Basil Valentine's 12 keys you see a picture of a king and the
wolf and the queen and a lame man/Saturn. This symbolically shows that
gold is to be purified by 'amalgamation' with antimony/stibnite, and silver,
the queen, is purified with lead/saturn through cupellation.

Of course there are greater secrets to antimony, but it was commonly used to purify
other metals.

Ghislain
10-25-2009, 06:56 AM
Thanks TP and Sol'

Every time I get a little information it just points out that I have so far to go yet :o
I can see I need an alchemical dictionary and a good book of alchemical symbolism.

Can one buy a cupel today? and if so are they expensive? and does one need a furnace?
Once a cupel has been used is it rendered useless?

I do not have any of these...should I acquire this sort of equipment?

I just bought a neat camping cooker half price from a closing down sale.
Guess I wont be damaging my hob any further. :)

Where do you start to look to buy Antimony Sulfide?

So many questions :confused:

Ghislain

Ghislain
10-25-2009, 07:04 AM
Antimony trisulfide should be handled with extreme care because it is toxic and
very sensitive to shock and static electricity. Is this true? Source: (http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=841&content_id=WPCP_010247&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=dce9451a-d880-4546-a566-986a1c59dea3)

It seems that the further one moves the more dangerous
things get.

Ghislain

memphis_mizraim
10-25-2009, 10:22 AM
Be careful don't rush into anything you read on here. You could end up dead very quickly from an explosion or poisoning.
Read, watch and learn. Then when you know exactly what to do you can start. I have made butter of antimony, work outside and you should be ok. Wear a good mask if inside use a fume hood.

horticult
10-25-2009, 10:46 AM
I have in house some stock of Sb2S3 which I mined myself and its not dangerous.

solomon levi
10-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Thanks TP and Sol'

Every time I get a little information it just points out that I have so far to go yet :o
I can see I need an alchemical dictionary and a good book of alchemical symbolism.

Can one buy a cupel today? and if so are they expensive? and does one need a furnace?
Once a cupel has been used is it rendered useless?

I do not have any of these...should I acquire this sort of equipment?

I just bought a neat camping cooker half price from a closing down sale.
Guess I wont be damaging my hob any further. :)

Where do you start to look to buy Antimony Sulfide?

So many questions :confused:

Ghislain

I don't have a cupel yet, but I've run across the need for one in many
experiments. It'd be nice to have if you're going to be using lead to fix
things. I haven't done much with lead yet.

You can find stibnite on ebay as mined crystals.
Also people who sell fireworks supplies, sometimes as "chinese needles".

solomon levi
10-25-2009, 11:06 PM
Stibi doesn't seem to dangerous by itself.
Just wash your hands if you handle it and don't breathe the dust -
that's basic for anything.
Stibi gets dangerous when it's in the crucible. Sometimes in making the
martial regulus people direct to add nitre and tartar - then you have
gun powder (along with the sulphur in the stibi).
Butter is highly corrosive, you don't want to get that on you or in your eye.
Give it the same respect as you would lye.
There could be some arsenic in native mineral antimony, which you don't
want to breathe at all.

solomon levi
11-09-2009, 08:07 PM
I just made an interesting connection...
Nicholas Flamel...
I've mentioned before that his name could be read
Nike laos Flame: victory stone of flames or Basil Valentine's
"Triumphal" fire stone - lapis ignis... antimony.

Well, today I realised who his wife was, alchemically speaking...
Perenelle = Prunelle...
sal prunelle is fused potassium nitrate/nitre.

Their very names suggest the process for the work.

Fireball
11-09-2009, 09:39 PM
"Perenelle = Prunelle...`sal prunelle is fused potassium nitrate/nitre."

Absolutely!


"Nike laos Flame: victory stone of flames or Basil Valentine's "Triumphal" fire stone - lapis ignis... antimony."

I beg to differ...

Lapis ignis---fire stone---burning stone---brimstone (natural sulfur)

Etymology (from Wiktionary):

Brimstone derives from the Old English brynstan, from brin- stem of brinnen "to burn" + stan "stone".

solomon levi
11-09-2009, 10:26 PM
:)
I won't disagree with you about brimstone.
In fact, I've already done some work with these two
(from my thread - the path of common sulphur):

"Here is the thick red oil from melting sulphur with nitre.
In this pic I added alcohol to it and you can see a little clear
waxy salt that is on the left. If I'm correct, this is Glauber's
universal mercury."

http://i88.servimg.com/u/f88/12/78/17/61/th/rick_s11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=47&u=12781761)

But you must admit, nike/victory goes with "triumphal" - they have the
same meaning. And Basil's product of his work with antimony he called
the fire stone, lapis ignis. And Flamel's path was the antimony path.

Fireball
11-10-2009, 12:15 AM
There is plenty of room for both interpretations :)

Everything has its sulfur... even sulfur :D (the native mineral)

And nitre is probably one of the better and more universal choices to fix any sulfur, be it the sulfur/butter of antimony or the sulfur element itself...

In your common sulfur experiments, have you used native sulfur crystals, or sulfur powder made from petroleum?

Opus Magnum
11-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Excuse me for offtopic, but what means "gw stone"? Great Work Stone? :D

solomon levi
11-10-2009, 06:44 PM
It was powder, most likely from petroleum.

gw = golden water = urine
:)

orangelmx
04-23-2010, 02:49 AM
I think i have penetrated the true meaning of this quote.
"Dew of heaven" is in my opinion Nitre and the Earth is just the symbol for Antimony!

Combine Heaven and the Earth!

Heaven = Nitre
Earth = Antimony

Astrological symbol for Earth is:

http://img153.imagevenue.com/loc249/th_41540_antimony-new_122_249lo.jpg (http://img153.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=41540_antimony-new_122_249lo.jpg)



Get it?

Yes you are right my dear friend, Malkuth in the tree of life is represented by Antimony too. ;)