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Awani
12-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Everyday the water company provides a service bringing water to you,
albeit cleansed – or so they claim – and you satisfy your thirst.

It’s understandable that somebody should be paid for the pipes, after all somebody put them in.
It’s understandable that somebody should be paid for running the water plant, after all somebody needs to run it.

But it’s mind-boggling that we have to pay depending on the amount we use.

This is proof that it’s for the actual water that we are paying and not the service.

Water should be free of charge.

Will air soon cost us money depending on how much we breathe?

:cool:

Salazius
12-06-2009, 05:46 PM
Coca C*** Compagny is pumping millions of tons of water in India, for free, and pollute all the area, creating thirst for all these poor peoples and illness.
Who suffer : Native indians.
South Africa : Coca is cheaper than water.

Bituminous salts in Canada, this oil Compagny pump in the river all the water, needing this pure gem water for it's dirty petrol, 5 liters of good water for one liter of petroil is needed. Millions and millions of liters of good water is used for our nice civilization.
Who suffer ? Native indians !

Coal, USA, the old mine put a jurassic phreatic lac until dry, only for coal ...
Native indians ...again, suffer.

As you can see, water is already free of charge !! Yepee ...

horticult
12-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Wake up!!!

Recently USA government took all water sources, and if you do not wake up properly the will certainly soon tax you also on air...

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 12:14 AM
That's what this whole democratic crusade led by Al Gore is trying to accomplish. A carbon footprint tax.
For years certain groups of enviromental scientists complained about global warming, but the presidential science advisors of the time knew that the rise in global temperature would and has always coincided with solar activity, which is especially peaking now as our solar system crosses the galactic plane. There is an intense amount of gravity concentration on a very thin whisp of the plane which acts against the delicate balance of the sun and earth and inflames that balance, and the results are solar flares on the sun, and earthquakes and tsunamis on the earth.

The democrats know this but they are trying to capitalize on the fact that people feel responsible for what, "we have done to the environment",and figure they can tax them on their conscience. Volcanic activity in the last years has released more CO2 into the air than 20 years of industrial emmisions.

Zephyr
12-07-2009, 12:39 AM
Somehow I just don't buy that at all... Sounds like right wing denialist propaganda to me... Unregulated corporate pollution is absolutely fucking with our ecosystems... Wow....
*Z*

Hephælios
12-07-2009, 12:43 AM
Our sun isn't actually crossing the galactic plane...it did that millions of years ago. We are actually closer to the apex in the oscillation of the sun through the galactic plane. Or to give a better picture- if we were on a horse on a merry go round it would be on the upswing.

Hephælios
12-07-2009, 01:17 AM
Somehow I just don't buy that at all... Sounds like right wing denialist propaganda to me... Unregulated corporate pollution is absolutely fucking with our ecosystems... Wow....
*Z*

If that were the case than consider the fact that several respected climate scientist were recently involved in scandal (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=513542) regarding their manipulation of data to reflect a pro-man made global warming agenda. Just google "climate gate" and find out for yourselves. At one time I believed it, but after researching some on my own I cannot say for certain that man-made global warming is the main culprit... I believe it to be the sun.

solomon levi
12-07-2009, 01:17 AM
Brawndo has electrolytes!

Awani
12-07-2009, 02:35 AM
I laugh at the whole debate about climate change being man-made or nor!

Consider that I do a lot of work for Greenpeace so I am pretty well-read on this subject.

The human race is polluting EARTH - whoever says they ain't is a lying bastard!

If this pollution has anything to do with the rise in temperature DON'T matter, it should not stop us trying to lower CO2 emissions.

I don't know how to be any more logical?

:cool:

Awani
12-07-2009, 02:37 AM
Btw if it is a tax issue then we should complain about taxes altogether.

I for one am totally against any such fake-socialistic systems spawned from the feudalism of the middle ages (or earlier).

:cool:

Awani
12-07-2009, 02:39 AM
Wake up!!!

I am aware of their Nazi-like agenda... such ass-holes (the rulers and the ignorant masses).

:cool:

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 10:02 AM
Its not really about the climate debate, I know something has to be done about the pollution, its way out of hand.

I have ideas about how to go about it and am working on it , I will use the funds I acquire from making the Stone to finance my endevours. If we all lived like the native americans who were here when we got here and respected the land more the world would be a much better place.

Its more about how the government with the help of the media pushes their agenda upon the unsuspecting, unassuming general public, who as a whole buys into what they are told without much independent thinking or fact finding of their own.
For any "expert" that says one thing I can find you another expert who says the opposite. An aspirin a day or not, mammograms yearly or not, red wine or not, the list goes on and on.
And its not just about democrats ,right wing or left, the republicans are just as bad. Fool us into believing Saddam has weapons, know about a possible threat of domestic terrorism and do nothing about it, then after it happens draft and pass into law, The Patriot Act, talk about taking something that is extremely negative and potentially unpopular and giving it an antithesis title. And so it passes we trade our freedoms for security, do you want to know what Benjamin Franklin said, " A society who trades their freedom for security deserves neither and will lose both".

solomon levi
12-07-2009, 07:41 PM
For any "expert" that says one thing I can find you another expert who says the opposite...

And so it passes we trade our freedoms for security, do you want to know what Benjamin Franklin said, " A society who trades their freedom for security deserves neither and will lose both".

Ben also said, "Fart proudly." :D

Sorry all I have are jokes. But my feelings about humans protecting
alchemy extend to humans saving the earth as well. The earth
doesn't need saving. When it has had enough of us, it'll shake us off
like water from a duck's back. Humans are the one's in trouble; the
earth will be fine. It has a much longer life span. Supposedly, life on
this planets has already been destroyed several times - the earth is
still here. Pole shift - earth is still here. Ice age - earth is still here.
Asteroid - earth is still here...
It's pretty self-important if you ask me - to think we can save the
earth when humans succumb to viruses every year.

We're not do-ers. Even if you eliminate the many 'I's and become
one and develop will, you're still an object. There is only one subject
and that is the Ineffable, the One that became All, and yet never
became... the unmanifest manifest... the Unknowable One.
Human beings are objects that are under the illusion that they are
subjects, so they say "I", "I", "I".... (it is said that Crowley would cut
himself with a knife if he said "I", to break himself of the habit).
You see, we are Sophia, and we are also the Demiurgos and the
archons raping ourselves, denying the Ineffable One True God
every time we say "I"... "I must do something about the polluted earth."

I would say that the only thing we need to do is dissolve the doer/"I",
but even that doesn't matter. Nothing we do, individually or as a
collective, will alter the Ineffable one jot nor one tittle.

Ain't I a ray of sunshine this morning! :D

horticult
12-07-2009, 09:21 PM
(it is said that Crowley would cut
himself with a knife if he said "I", to break himself of the habit).


Not fully exact, but anyway:
Liber III vel Jugorum - here is the cornerstone of real magick.

Zephyr
12-07-2009, 11:56 PM
I did that once... it was tough... training yourself out of very basic instinctive patterns...
*Z*

LeoRetilus
12-08-2009, 03:13 AM
Ben also said, "Fart proudly." :D

The earth doesn't need saving. When it has had enough of us, it'll shake us off
like water from a duck's back. ...It's pretty self-important if you ask me - to think we can save the earth when humans succumb to viruses every year...I would say that the only thing we need to do is dissolve the doer/"I",
but even that doesn't matter. Nothing we do, individually or as a
collective, will alter the Ineffable one jot nor one tittle.

Ain't I a ray of sunshine this morning! :D

Man... thats a pretty bleek outlook, but you should know as the Kabbala tell us that every human action either hinders or hastens the union of Shekhinah to Earth, you see the garden of eden was once on earth and as humans began to sin, earth was pushed away and paradise left us , only humbly and through just and right action will the Kingdom of God return to man.God is powerful but needs us to complete his creation, he can't force us because he gave us free will. But you must know that honesty, integrity, honor, courage and commitment is what separates us from common beasts that roam upon the earth, we're human animals, yes , but we're also something else, tied to each other, yes, through the Universal and Timeless Akashic Mind, but still individuals each contributing to our collective mind one human experience at a time.

Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.

solomon levi
12-08-2009, 03:32 AM
Not fully exact, but anyway:
Liber III vel Jugorum - here is the cornerstone of real magick.

Maybe it was a chainsaw; I forget.
:D

"If thy right hand offend thee"..... "vrum, vrum, vrum, zzzzzzzzzzzz!!!"
:D :D :D


Some say that our treatment of the planet is the reason why certain
alien groups have been allowed to make their presence as the new
custodians. Supposedly, there is a universal law of non-interference,
but since we act like assholes and the earth is more important to
this solar system than the human race is, they've made an exception (you see, we are special! :D )
There is other life in our solar system - it's just inorganic; that is,
some of the planets, including our own, are populated by beings
without physical bodies, and when we detonate nuclear weapons
and split the atom, we're interfering with their worlds as well. You
see, the atom consists of 7 shells, and these correspond to the 7 planes
of electromagnetic reality - hertzian, infrared, visible light, UV,
X-ray, Gamma, Cosmic. Human beings, obviously, consist of these
7 bodies as well. But while our reality is mostly focussed on the most
dense end of the hertzian spectrum, there are others, among us and throughout the universe, who live in, say, the infrared realm, or
the x-ray realm. Each of these are entire worlds, universes.
("In my Father's house, there are many mansions...") And
when we split an atom, we f*** with their worlds.
("What's that? Oh, sorry ***. No, I was just cursing. Go back to
watching 'Bill Nye, the Science Guy'..." :D )
That's why so many more UFOs began being noticed in the 1940s.
We got their attention. It's not that they came to save us from
destroying ourselves so much as that we're rocking their worlds.
And now we're detonating these bombs on the moon, mars and
jupiter!?!?

I say "we", but the "people" who govern the world are themselves
aliens or alien pawns with their own agenda. They're not as stupid
as they seem. Why the Viet Nam war? Why Iraq? Stupid right?
Well, for them it's very lucrative and productive towards their goals. Their goals simply have nothing to do with ours, the individuals,
or the U.S. Constitution. (How can some people think Masonic
societies are evil? If it weren't for them and the Constitution, we'd
all have chips in our heads 20 years ago. These people who push
that propaganda are either true religious ignorants or planted pawns, and/or pawns have been planted within the Masonic structure
to make them look bad - which always happens to anybody on the
"wrong side" flexing their Constitutional muscles.)

Okay, I'll shut up, before they lock me up. :D

solomon levi
12-08-2009, 04:33 AM
Man... thats a pretty bleek outlook, but you should know as the Kabbala tell us that every human action either hinders or hastens the union of Shekhinah to Earth, you see the garden of eden was once on earth and as humans began to sin, earth was pushed away and paradise left us , only humbly and through just and right action will the Kingdom of God return to man.God is powerful but needs us to complete his creation, he can't force us because he gave us free will. But you must know that honesty, integrity, honor, courage and commitment is what separates us from common beasts that roam upon the earth, we're human animals, yes , but we're also something else, tied to each other, yes, through the Universal and Timeless Akashic Mind, but still individuals each contributing to our collective mind one human experience at a time.

Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.

Hey Leo!
Yeah, I do know of those things. I studied the Kabbalah, and really
fell in love with it; especially Isaac Luria (the Ari - Leo!) and his
beautiful vision and philosophy. But I had to reject this when I saw
the Absolute truth of non-duality. "The truth is a pathless path."
There can be no tradition, no rules, no system, especially one of
reward/punishment, sin/redemption... many humans are lost in
this endless drama. There are no conditions for the One's unconditional
presence/love. The mind, because it is dual, will always come up
with dualistic "solutions" which only perpetuate the division and
fragmentation of the "I".

I'm a sad case. Sometimes, it would be so nice if I could believe in
Kabbalah again, or that I am creating my reality, that my choices
make a difference... but I can't. I'm broken. I can't go back if I want to.
I used to be someone, proud of my spirituality, envied by others...
not just as an appearance either - I had acquired several siddhas/powers/heka.
Now I am nothing, crushed by the Truth... the envy of no one.
No one wants this. Most of the time I don't want it. But the alternative
is to live a lie/illusion, and i want that even less.

DJ (Castaneda's Don Juan) said, "This path does not accept volunteers...
Each of us must be tricked by the spirit."

Do you know what I mean?

All of our voluntary, willful efforts only appear to mean anything
in our personal, subjective lives. But when that is taken from us by
spirit or death, what will you do?
I don't know what to do. I'm lost. I just know what not to do:
Don't believe in the apparent reality of the "I". It has no real substance.
If I take the time to look for the "I" and follow it to its root, there is
nothing there. I'm not speaking poetically or metaphorically. You
and I really don't exist save as stories we re-mind ourselves of, a
personal history that we cling to and identify with and sell to others.
The mind lives in its images/knowledge and dies in the true
present. Once it dies, you can never really put humpty dumpty
back together again. I try; but it's empty and meaningless now that
I have seen.
I'd love it if someone could help me, tell me where to go, what to do,
who to be... but so far, every "answer" I've heard creates an illusory
false "I". I am a true ghost, a shell of who I was. This is my Journey to
Ixtlan. I have no hope.


Fra. Sol.

ps - I'm not whining or feeling victimised - just stating the facts.
pss - I feel I have imposed on this thread. I'll try not to do that in the future.
Feel free to move this to that other thread about false "I"s. I'll try to
contain my hopelessness there. :)

LeoRetilus
12-08-2009, 05:55 AM
Well Sol, it seems you think you are a poisoned dragon of sorts. I went through the same thing you are going through now , but earlier in life, before I found the Kabbala, you see I'm a scientist , I look for logic and reason in everything. What I truly believe is as you do , that life is an illusion , a game if you will, the universe is made of point-masses and point -charges that act as quantum computers where God has programed the "Laws of Physics" into, by the way those laws can be bent , I've bent them. He created the math that governs the program and even all the subtle laws, yes that includes karma, duality and all the qualities that define the middle and lower kingdoms as the Sefer Yetzirah, through the Tree Of Life defines. You see Sol, early life didn't deal me a fair hand from the start and so I wished not to play, on multiple occasions I tried to end it all, but nothing I tried would kill me, poisons, pills etc..All I would get was these dejavus, these experiences weren't just a feeling of familiarity , I actual remembered what was happening as it was happening and would know what was going to happen for the next 5-10 minutes. Sometimes I knew I had repeated the same events several times, it happens every time I make bad decisions and go against Gods will. I have learned what that is now, the hard way. You see even time is an illusion in reality all things have all ready come to pass. We're seeing the big bang in slow motion for us its billions of years but for God it was in a blink or twinkle of his eye, but what does God worry for time, he goes wherever he wants. Every time I get a glimpse of the future through my dejavus and I don't like what I see , I alter the time line in some way and create for myself a new reality. And thats how I live my life, backward through time, willing into existence what I wish, as long as it conforms to God's master plan he doesn't care what I take for myself along the way, he loves me and wants me to be happy. If I live an eternity in this bliss I have found then great, but if Gods plan is different then I will gladly go, for it was better to live among you and know love, laughter and friendship and raise a family even if for just a second than an eternity having never known it. The best way I can explain how to get in the right state of mind is this: separate the subtle, the wizard, the timeless from the gross, the body , the name, which is as you said not you , but the summation and culimation of your experiences and your acts. Hide the wizard down deep , don't show him to anyone, it makes you weak in this world. Show the world the name, the man , you can make this life whatever you want. I 've proved that to myself , I've traveled around the world and if I didn't like what I became in one place, I would just relocate and become someone else in another, and why not nobody knew me in that new place so it was always a good chance to start over. We are here to play this game Sol, everything else is speculation. Do I believe Aliens exist ? Yes absolutely , did they create mankind from pre-homonid dna, species as Lloyd Pie and Zacharia Setchin suggest, perhaps, I don't know for sure. It really doesn't matter who created us because who ever did it, God created them at all goes back to the one ,the unknowable, Ain Sof, to Keter, that which you cannot comprehend until you ascend above the Tree of Life You have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, it sounds like , now eat from the Tree of Life, make the Elixir Of Life drink it and take your place by the side of God, join Enoch, Moses and the Ascended Masters, we'll be waiting for you.;)

solomon levi
12-08-2009, 07:21 AM
:)
Thank you, Brother.

I think I see a possible solution - that of parallel realities.
As I said, the One became the All without ever becoming...
I think we have to do the same since we are simultaneously
"that" and "this", present and past and future, Sophia and
Demiurgos and Ineffable, Ain Sof and Malkuth...

Allow the play, the identification, the dance, knowing that the
real never moves - or not knowing it; it still never moves.
I still never move.

Until I hold the Elixir of Life, for tonight, I will raise a glass
of wine with my finest spagyric preparation, in thanks to you
and all here, and the Brotherhood R.C. - may we meet in Paradise
("beyond saying").

Zephyr
12-08-2009, 01:04 PM
Once the bonds of form and identity are undone, the clay relaxes and returns to a protean form. But sensation remains in its purest form: intimate, uncodified, total contact with that which subtends the terms "Existence" and "Non Existence", and which stretches between and beyond them. And then that clay can be animated as you Will: the Person can be remade, and yet their scope surpasses anything they once were. See Illusion is PART of truth... become dissolved into infinity, but then dissolve infinity back into itself, and LO! You are back where you started, but with an important difference: both halves of the operation of ascent and descent do you now possess. Stretch out your unified sense, which is mind, which is scent, which is taste, and all the others co-mingled as TOUCH, and feel where it's all at. Baham!
:eek:

*Z*

solomon levi
12-09-2009, 01:14 AM
:)
Very nice Zephyr. I like that.

Ghislain
12-09-2009, 09:08 PM
Deviadah, I am not sure if it is the same where you are
but most of the cost for our water goes to dealing with
the waste product.

On global warming I believe it is an unanswerable question
as to whether we can affect it or not. People are entitled to
their views either way...and I am sure all will put forward good
argument for their respective corners. Wikipedia graphs ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_past_1000_years) show
a definite trend of warming so I guess there is going to be changes
but that makes life more interesting :)

On the Native American...I watched a program that said the
prairies were formed by human interaction (Native American)
for grazing cattle and easier hunting...what might of otherwise
been forest. wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie#Formation)
The Native American Indian was sometimes known to kill bison just for the
tongue and leave the rest . We are none of us perfect.

On freedom I agree with Ben Franklin on both counts...especially the farting Sol’ :D
I totally agree with you Sol...on the fart entry – not sure on the Aliens entry –
when you say we were rocking their worlds, was that Woodstock?...All we can
do is move with the changes and enjoy the experience.

On Sol and the hopelessness of the false “I”...sounds like a film title! “I” feel the same thing Sol,
but “I” see it as a blessing...we are but a mere...I do not know of a word which could describe our tininess...
in what “I” guess is a moment. Therefore nothing matters and we can spectate to our hearts content.
My theory is that everything is one...the whole Universe, and thus nothing can leave it, it can only change...
“I“ will always be here just different...hence alchemy...The I-Ching...The Tao...it’s what every religion tries to
tell us in its roundabout way. Enjoy it! There will be another billion or so of us along on the next bus...they might get it :)

But what has all this to do with water :confused:

Ghislain

Zephyr
12-09-2009, 09:34 PM
From Deleuze and Guattari's A Thousand Plateaus:


The two of us wrote Anti-Oedipus together. Since each of us was several, there was already quite a crowd. Here we have made use of everything within range, what was closest as well as farthest away. We have assigned clever pseudonyms to prevent recognition. Why have we kept our own names? Out of habit, purely out of habit. To make ourselves unrecognizable in turn. To render imperceptible, not ourselves, but what makes us act, feel, and think. Also because it's nice to talk like everybody else, to say the sun rises, when everybody knows it's only a manner of speaking. To reach, not the point where one no longer says I, but the point where it is no longer of any importance whether one says I. We are no longer ourselves. Each will know his own. We have been aided, inspired, multiplied.

Zephyr
12-09-2009, 09:40 PM
We have veered considerably off topic, its true, although the discussion is still very "watery", in the sense that this experience of the loss of the "I" is akin to being dissolved into the one... or similarly, becoming like the Tao: indistinct and yet fluidly connected to everything....

*Z*

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 09:45 PM
After all is not water the universal solvent?

Andro
02-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Allow the play, the identification, the dance, knowing that the real never moves - or not knowing it; it still never moves. I still never move.

Or maybe it moves at infinite speed, so it appears not to be moving at all :)

I don't remember where I read this concept:


"There's only one electron, it just gets around a lot"

In any case, as long as you only state that it never moves, or only state that it always moves - you're still in a dualistic mindframe :)

Movement and non-movement do not contradict eachother at the source...

You're also in a dualistic mindframe if you keep bringing up the 'One' with complete disregard for the 'None'.

We are neither One nor None. We're both simultaneously, and also dancing In-Between while at it :)

Try to consider Hermes' three parts of wisdom as being 'None, One and In-Between' :)


[...]Isaac Luria and his beautiful vision and philosophy. But I had to reject this when I saw the Absolute truth of non-duality. "The truth is a pathless path."

Pathless is still only one side of the coin, therefore still dualistic. It's just as Pathless as it is Pathfull.

I hope I'm not messing with some minds too much :eek:

Most of the Ari's material was written by his main student, Vital.
He was apparently the student who was closest to 'getting' it, but even he was quite far off the original teachings.
If you ever get your hands on the very few things that the Ari wrote himself, you may see things differently.
The undiluted Ari wrote more like a shaman/alchemist than like a rabbi.


"This path does not accept volunteers... Each of us must be tricked by the spirit."
Do you know what I mean?

Yes, I do know. Only too well...

Smoke
03-15-2010, 03:52 AM
Wisdom pearls:

"Fart proudly"
Benjamin Franklin

"Fart fiercely"
Gengis Khan

"Don't fart! ...or we gonna bring democracy to your country!"
George Bush / Dick Chenney

"Freedom of fart for Tibet!"
Dalai Lama

"Don't ask if your country can fart for you: Ask if you can fart for your country"
JFK

"The big fart theory is dead"
Stephen Hawking

"Does the fart of a butterfly in Osama Bin Laden's cave, set off a perfect storm in Washington?"
Chaos theory

"The fart side of the moon"
Pink Floyd

"FART" (far / art) far = distant, remote, great distance in time or space, & art = the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects. then: Fart = aesthetics through space & time.
Kabalistic

"Just fart"
Ineffable One


Sorry about that!

I was just reading this tread by deviadah about charges for water (supposedly free resource). It turns interetsing with participation of Salazius, horticult, Zephyr, Hephælios, and LeoRetilus. Leo was talking about the patriotic act and the imposition of police state in the US, and finished with a beautiful phrase by Benjamin Franklin.
Leo was very assertive, absolutely on target and I agree with him 150%!
But suddenly; Solomon Levi produced the wisdom words "Fart proudly" by Benjamin Franklin!
Maybe I'm a little insane, but I just couldn't stop laughing! (I didn't see it coming!)
So, I couldn't resist!

Sorry guys. it was just a fluke. Please continue.

Donna Matrix
04-30-2010, 04:46 AM
Solomon Solomon, Such despair. i now it all too ell myself. Ultimetly Leo Ris correct. You need to choose a path of love.There is still beauty to be seen and friendship to be had and laughter. Th others are responsible for their misery and their enlightenment. Such melancholy only adds to the suffering inthe world. You can't follow it by figuring it out. Its not a thing of the mind which can become a prison unto itself. All you have todo is ask God for help and protection. Work your Kaballa magic or whatever you have convinced yourself is your "belief system". Its not about any system at all, its about love. This is not mamby pamby love, this is roll up your sleeves and get real kind of love. This means pain and struggle and annihilation. But its love and its real. I wish you peace.

DM

solomon levi
05-11-2010, 05:44 PM
Thanks Donna.

Things have gotten a little better i guess; but nothing is really going to change -
I mean the fact of non-duality and the illusion of ego isn't going to go away
or be replaced. But i think I'll become more used to it and I'm waiting for
controlled folly to kick in so i can have some more fun with it. :)
It's simultaneously devastating and liberating.