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LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 10:36 AM
Praise God the almighty unknowable, omniscient, omnipotent, creator of the universe, Ain Sof for I have completed The First Operation of the Sun and have transmuted lead into gold , through my own improvised method I have created a stone capable of a 1:100 potency in under two weeks. Thanks to this forum for a better understanding of what I was lacking and thank you all.

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture895.jpg

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture896.jpg


Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.

Salazius
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Well, can you describe more the photos ? What is the first one ? And the second ? Lead metl ? Thanks :)

memphis_mizraim
12-07-2009, 01:11 PM
Praise God the almighty unknowable, omniscient, omnipotent, creator of the universe, Ain Sof for I have completed The First Operation of the Sun and have transmuted lead into gold , through my own improvised method I have created a stone capable of a 1:100 potency in under two weeks. Thanks to this forum for a better understanding of what I was lacking and thank you all.

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture895.jpg

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture896.jpg


Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.
All I see is a blur. can you post a good picture???

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 05:50 PM
Well, can you describe more the photos ? What is the first one ? And the second ? Lead metl ? Thanks :)

The first photo is what converted to a gold powder that would no longer melt at the temperature that I applied and held in order to keep the lead melted. It was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen ,the top layer of lead that made contact with the air would flower and then skin over and harden as it cooled and change colors simultaneously , it would cool but I was still applying heat, and the lead underneath stayed quick. I would then stir and the skin would roll up and crush into powdered gold. Then a new layer of quick silvery lead would be exposed to the air and the process would repeat until the stone was used up. The only thing I put in the crucible was lead and a small amount of the stone mixed with beeswax. It did seem to change to silver first then on to gold. So I believe what you see in the first picture is gold, and silver.

The second wasn't very clear but it shows the gold powder stuck to the side of the crucible and the unconverted lead left behind..

solomon levi
12-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Congratulations Leo!

If you're able, can you post a pic of the stone as well?

Awani
12-07-2009, 07:13 PM
...for I have completed The First Operation of the Sun and have transmuted lead into gold , through my own improvised method I have created a stone capable of a 1:100 potency in under two weeks.

Good for you!

:cool:

Salazius
12-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Bravo !
A nice work, now I understerdant better the photos.
No irisation effect in transmutatio ?

researcher
12-07-2009, 07:25 PM
Thats unbelievably awsome. I can tell by your words your telling the truth. You would'nt happen to have used a process that a certain someone always mentions which involves putrification, disstilling, grinding, and time in a lamp oven?

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 07:53 PM
Bravo !
A nice work, now I understerdant better the photos.
No irisation effect in transmutatio ?

Yes as I was stiring and the new quick layer of lead came into contact with the air and began to skin over , the skin would appear irridescent like the peacocks tail and then settle on a shiny gold color as it cooled and solidified into something that would no longer melt at that temperature and then crumbled into gold dust as I continued to stir. All I used for heating was a mapp gas torch.

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 08:07 PM
Thats unbelievably awsome. I can tell by your words your telling the truth. You would'nt happen to have used a process that a certain someone always mentions which involves putrification, disstilling, grinding, and time in a lamp oven?

It was an improvise version of the GW method, but it involved only a couple days of putrification, no disstilation, no grinding and very little heating . It was a marriage of ormus, monoatmoic collection and orgone energy concentration methods. Bion energy is the life force, it is the power of heaven, it is everywhere but still volitle,seeking form as new life, m-state is the power of the earth and is near the earth or within it and contains within it the seeds of gold. That is all I will devulge about the process, read the emerald tablet about what to do with heaven and earth, read about orgone to learn about the lifeforce(Reich) and OD energy (Baron Von Reichenbach) from the sun and moon and its effects on people and you will come to understand what the Emerald Tablet means about the sun, its father , the moon its mother and the earth nursed it in its belly.

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

k89
12-07-2009, 08:32 PM
... and have transmuted lead into gold



Did you do a chemical test to check if it is gold?

LeoRetilus
12-07-2009, 09:09 PM
Did you do a chemical test to check if it is gold?

I have been refining gold via the aqua regia method from electronic scrap to get gold to 98%-99.5% purity and them reverse electroplating to get it to 9999 for over ten years I know gold when I see it.. Currently I don't have any nitric acid on hand but will order some and do the streak test on black slate to confirm purity.:)
And while I haven't used a means of chemical verification, I have confirmed by other qualities we know of gold, i.e. color, hardness, ductility, maleablilty, specific gravity, conductivity,orp (galvanic series) and melting point.

horticult
12-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Congratulations!

True Initiate
12-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Now you are officially Frater LeoRetilus. ;)

Serpent
12-08-2009, 10:57 AM
Fascinating. A question for the OP, did you start your laboratory practices in the plant kingdom first and then metals?

horticult
12-08-2009, 11:17 AM
Did you also some potable gold or something for "healing" human?? With what effect???

LeoRetilus
12-08-2009, 06:29 PM
Fascinating. A question for the OP, did you start your laboratory practices in the plant kingdom first and then metals?

If you can consider my body as the laboratory then yes. An alkaline bodily environment first, before bed by drinking baking soda with water first prepares the body to receive the spirit, then a diet high in polyphenol content, i.e. black olives, concord grapes, grape seed oil extract, manapol which is a aloe vera extract, blueberries, dark chocolate, all those things contain an oil, which can manifest something that resembles tartaric acid crytals, but I don't beleive the chemicals mean anything , the potential is in the package, clathrate boxes, they attract the power of heaven and earth. Thats why orgone accumulators work so well with alchemy, I believe the first orgone accumulators was built by Anton Mesmer, the Mesmer battery, Mesmer whom I just found out recently from A Rosicrucian Notebook that he might have borrowed it from the Rosicrucians.

LeoRetilus
12-08-2009, 06:52 PM
Did you also some potable gold or something for "healing" human?? With what effect???

Well, I haven't extracted an Elixir from the Stone, not yet, However I have been taking m-state every day for over two years. The best m-state I would ever recommend is made by Don Nance from Ocean Alchemy.com . However the only products worth buying are M-3, which is the white dove and the golden tear, which is an extremely powerful concoction. I store my m-state products in orgone accumulators in a dark place in close proximities to wine and spirits. Even though they are sealed they take on a different taste as there power also intesifies. Sometimes the M-3 will glow by its own light. Note that the same thing can be acheived with water by charging it in a magnetite surround and ingesting that water and using the charged water for all your alchemy processes. The water also has incredible effects on plants as well, a properly charged plant will bleed etheric light from the tips of the plant leaves. Its is the OD. The effects on me are that I haven't been sick in over two years and last year I was involved in a explosion and lost most of my skin from about 25% of my body, I should have died as I couldn't get to a hospital because of my remote location, but I was healed and my skin grew back within a week having never stepped foot in a hospital. Also some mental and spiritual effects which I won't go into at this time.

Opus Magnum
12-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Congratulations! That's awesome. Hope I will be able to write the same after few years :D Can you show the photo of the stone?

Salazius
12-08-2009, 10:01 PM
Hello LeoRetilus,

It is taking risks to openly declare making the Stone, Elixir, Transmutations.
What push or motivate you put yourself in such a position ?

These risks could be triggered because, when all these things are so common, speaking out loud and uncypher of that could be a habitude. Here lies the danger too.
What do you think of all this ?

LeoRetilus
12-08-2009, 10:54 PM
Hello LeoRetilus,

It is taking risks to openly declare making the Stone, Elixir, Transmutations.
What push or motivate you put yourself in such a position ?

These risks could be triggered because, when all these things are so common, speaking out loud and uncypher of that could be a habitude. Here lies the danger too.
What do you think of all this ?

I'd like to get eveyone elses take on this

What type of risks in particular do you speak of? Salazius, I have taken no oath of silence. I am here to illuminate and teach , what good does that light that emanates from God that illuminates through me do , if all I do is use it for myself?
He blessed me with an IQ of 147 and gave me a photographic memory and power over the elements. I believe it is my destiny to help usher in a new world of peace and light, and help create a nation of high priests where everyhting is illuminated and nothing will be beyond our sight, and I have protection to accomplish this , I believe it is God's will. Furthermore, God will chose who will be successful and who will fail, I am only here prove to people that God is still alive and that his miracles can in fact be accomplished. To long has man wallowed in the darkness, and lived as slaves to those in the know and those in power.
There has to be balance.

memphis_mizraim
12-09-2009, 01:44 AM
I'd like to get eveyone elses take on this

What type of risks in particular do you speak of? Salazius, I have taken no oath of silence. I am here to illuminate and teach , what good does that light that emanates from God that illuminates through me do , if all I do is use it for myself?
He blessed me with an IQ of 147 and gave me a photographic memory and power over the elements. I believe it is my destiny to help usher in a new world of peace and light, and help create a nation of high priests where everyhting is illuminated and nothing will be beyond our sight, and I have protection to accomplish this , I believe it is God's will. Furthermore, God will chose who will be successful and who will fail, I am only here prove to people that God is still alive and that his miracles can in fact be accomplished. To long has man wallowed in the darkness, and lived as slaves to those in the know and those in power.

There has to be balance.

That's great to hear, so post us a picture of the stone and then you make history. Too much secrecy about all this. I am sure scientists know how to do it if it's possible. What I cannot understand how it remained secret for so long. Is it possible to keep such a secret I don't think so post the picture and then see what happens.

solomon levi
12-09-2009, 01:59 AM
I've mostly made my views on this known.
But if you are successful, the risk is more with governments
and laws. It's illegal to make your own gold in the U.S.

So protect yourself from too much attention.
Maybe be wise with your words so that not just anyone searching
for "suc***ful transm***tion" will find this.

If you're already in the gold biz you might be covered and not
suspect. Otherwise sell it at pawn shops.

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 03:19 AM
That's great to hear, so post us a picture of the stone and then you make history. Too much secrecy about all this. I am sure scientists know how to do it if it's possible. What I cannot understand how it remained secret for so long. Is it possible to keep such a secret I don't think so post the picture and then see what happens.

What will a picture of the stone prove?
It probably doesn't even look like anybody elses, but I will when I make some more.
Its not like you'll be able to look at it and say yeah thats it, and now I know whats in it and go to the kitchen and whip some up. I don't think it works that way. I believe my stone is within me and has been all this time, I only had to take the time to try and extract it.. I have always believed that I could accomplish anything I set my mind to, and so far I have. I find I have more luck in finishing if I just get started.

asket
12-09-2009, 04:08 AM
or think about what a picture of the stone will not prove.
as for my opinion your success should be hailed and not discussed.:D

researcher
12-09-2009, 06:27 AM
I'm very grateful Leo has shared his success. It is very encourageing to people like me. I have read of 5 of these events and 2 of them that happened in modern times and his description matches up.

I don't know if its been mentioned elsewhere but one should always be careful selling precious metals in the US. If you can't provide evidence where you obtained it they'll assume you obtained it illegally and it could result in jail time. If I ever achieve transmutation I would sell on ebay below market price or something but the best option would be to go to Mexico and sell it. Latin America is unregulated and the government there doesn't pay much attention to it. At least thats what I've read.

Hephælios
12-09-2009, 07:42 AM
What will a picture of the stone prove?
It probably doesn't even look like anybody elses, but I will when I make some more.


For myself and the research that I've done over the years- I've come to believe that the true stone spoken of historically- does in fact assume a very unique form. I guard this information and would rather not disclose what I believe...but for myself, the picture of its true form would prove much. More so then any tinging or transmutation- as that facet of alchemy can be duplicated through the art of archemy. Either way, congratulations.

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 07:49 AM
That's great to hear, so post us a picture of the stone and then you make history.

I'm doing this cause Solomon asked politely

The Stone in fermentation:
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture902.jpg

Another view:
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture907-1.jpg

Here again clearer pictures of the first I posted:

Gold:
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture898.jpg

And the lead left behind with gold stuck to the crucible:
http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/gustijerina/Picture901.jpg

:)

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

Salazius
12-09-2009, 10:22 AM
Hello Leo,

Thank you for sharing so openly your pictures, your Stone is of a very nice purple.

Yes I was speaking of risks, because gold and power in the world are dangerous to behold. Mafia, governments, cartels, etc could be very intersted in your works. It's the same story than in the XVth century when alchemists were put in jail-labs in order to make money for war.
We do keep the silence in order to make unrecheable this Marvellous Science to people who will use it for bad purpose, more slavery, more death and suffering, more power on other and not with everyone else.
What if Hitler had the Long Life Elixir and could erase it's karma in a glimpse of an eye ? He tried that by taking under control all R+C obediences and F.M also.


What will a picture of the stone prove?
Photos prove almost nothing. It's very easy to make fake photos of a Stone or transmuted gold.


I joined this forum about a week ago and felt I was given a great gift because of writings like those of Solomon Levi and Salazius and True Puffer whom I have emmense respect for there knowledge and I felt I should give back, thats all. If I don't fit in with the little community here then I guess I will move on.

And my respect is also for you, and I think you fit in this community.

Now your ambition to make a new nation of high priests where everything is illuminated and nothing will be beyond our sight, is quite a big one, and I beleive that all the Rosicrusian communities or orders have quite the same idea, changing for the best this world, and since century they explain and speak, but, do people listen ? Not very much. Every body is not yet opened enough to receive the message.

"God's will" is a triky topic. Will is a movement, movement create things. God is Peace, a Dot of Being and Life with no movement or vibration. Then can God be a Will ? Yes, but in this case it's no longer God, but a Will. All the roots of problems in this world is human's will. Neale Donald Walsch worte a book about the topic "What God wants", a perfect explanation. It's only my opinion, but for me God cannot have a Will, but it's Manifestation yes, I mean, Darkness.

May your Stone erase your personnal duality and make you taste the Bliss and the profound understanding of the Nature of Things and Nonthings.

memphis_mizraim
12-09-2009, 10:52 AM
"LeoRetilus" most recent post about "being chosen by God," and having a photographic memory, among other things, reveals both his identity and purpose in his most recent posting.

Of course he is none other than "En Dee Sea." Next he will begin warning about "not listening to negative people." Then come the personal attacks.

Listen, I can take all the abuse anyone can throw at me if they can give me instruction on how to make the stone. If its our N then more power to him and I say a huge thanks to him and he can attack me all he wants but I see no reason why he should.
Just making this information available is wonderful, great news at last after years of waiting.
It will encourage many more to really try. Can anyone verify this is the Stone.
What is it supposed to look like. I have seen a stone but it does not look like this.
Are their any old document that describes it. Perhaps their are many different types depending on the matter used but they should have all something in common in appearance, I would think?
Thanks again for the pictures.

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 10:53 AM
Ok..... , initially after I had done it, my first impulse was to hide it , but I thought that initial impulse to be selfishness and that's not me. Then I was so overcome with joy I wanted someone to know so I posted it, but nobody who knows me personally knows what I've done or its significance. And I'll keep it that way!
Especially after what you just brought to light , Salazius, I guess I have a different perspective now. I'll call you Salazius, Salazius The Wise.

As for the Elixir , I think I know how to procede


Peace and LVX

memphis_mizraim
12-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Ok..... , initially after I had done it, my first impulse was to hide it , but I thought that initial impulse to be selfishness and that's not me. Then I was so overcome with joy I wanted someone to know so I posted it, but nobody who knows me personally knows what I've done or its significance. And I'll keep it that way!
Especially after what you just brought to light , Salazius, I guess I have a different perspective now. I'll call you Salazius, Salazius The Wise.

As for the Elixir , I think I know how to procede


Peace and LVX
I also take my hat off to the three names you mentioned, True Puffer, Salazius and Solomon Levi.
They have supplied great information and I now add you to this list. Keep up your work and I am sure many will now even start down the road of alchemy for the first time after seeing these pictures.
I was sure this tradition is the West was dead and now I am very happy to see it's alive and prospering.
As Salazius said be careful as many will try to use your knowledge for all the wrong reasons.
Thanks again.:):):):):)

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 11:24 AM
Listen, I can take all the abuse anyone can throw at me if they can give me instruction on how to make the stone. .

Haha, I hope I'm not abusing anybody here, I was abused as a child and I can say the first part of my life wasn't very pleasant and now I have children of my own and I pray that I never abuse them.

After re-reading some of the old threads I think I know who you guys are talking about , and now I get it , at first I thought that other guy was trying to say , In the Sea, ...like in the ocean and thought it to be some kind of inside joke about me. But now I see... ***. The other Mr. C ,yea he has alot of stuff on the web and you find alot of it if you really look hard. I don't know the guy or ever had any reason to feel any kinda way about him, looks like he has history with you guys.

But I feel offended that no one thinks I'm smart enough to figure out this stuff on my own, after all I am a nuclear physicist ,please go read my introduction and I don't think you'll ever confuse me with anybody else on here again. I'm really not that full of myself.;) But I am proud of myself considering of where I've come from and how much I've accomplished. P.S. Im not a white guy, I'm of hispanic descent., my great-grandfather was from Mexico and was a 32nd Degree Mason, I never knew him but have heard alot about him and his brothers , Its said they could do some wonderous things.

Salazius
12-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Hello guys,


Memphis :
Are their any old document that describes it. Perhaps their are many different types depending on the matter used but they should have all something in common in appearance, I would think?

They will be different considering the matter of course, and all will have alsmost the same aspect. Fulcanelli speak about the Phoenix, which comes from Phoenicians, and this word mean : purple. Purple comes from the latin purpurae, "pure of the pure". So ... A stone can be of red or purple colors.

Leo :

I'll call you Salazius, Salazius The Wise.
Funny lol, gracias.


As for the Elixir , I think I know how to procede
Great, a next step coming for you.


But I feel offended that no one thinks I'm smart enough to figure out this stuff on my own, after all I am a nuclear physicist

I do, and even more because you have a scientific background, yes, I my idea a scientific mindset can be an handicap in the Nature's Mysteries.

BUT...=>
my great-grandfather was from Mexico and was a 32nd Degree Mason, I never knew him but have heard alot about him and his brothers , Its said they could do some wonderous things.

It's in your blood ! That makes also the difference. 'Family karma'.

memphis_mizraim
12-09-2009, 12:16 PM
They will be different considering the matter of course, and all will have alsmost the same aspect. Fulcanelli speak about the Phoenix, which comes from Phoenicians, and this word mean : purple. Purple comes from the latin purpurae, "pure of the pure". So ... A stone can be of red or purple colors.

Thanks Salazius.

memphis_mizraim
12-09-2009, 12:19 PM
Haha, I hope I'm not abusing anybody here, I was abused as a child and I can say the first part of my life wasn't very pleasant and now I have children of my own and I pray that I never abuse them.

After re-reading some of the old threads I think I know who you guys are talking about , and now I get it , at first I thought that other guy was trying to say , In the Sea, ...like in the ocean and thought it to be some kind of inside joke about me. But now I see... ***. The other Mr. C ,yea he has alot of stuff on the web and you find alot of it if you really look hard. I don't know the guy or ever had any reason to feel any kinda way about him, looks like he has history with you guys.

But I feel offended that no one thinks I'm smart enough to figure out this stuff on my own, after all I am a nuclear physicist ,please go read my introduction and I don't think you'll ever confuse me with anybody else on here again. I'm really not that full of myself.;) But I am proud of myself considering of where I've come from and how much I've accomplished. P.S. Im not a white guy, I'm of hispanic descent., my great-grandfather was from Mexico and was a 32nd Degree Mason, I never knew him but have heard alot about him and his brothers , Its said they could do some wonderous things.

Sorry about the word abuse "its used to mean sonething else before the modern day problem"
I am 95 degree mason but all alchemical in these degrees is veiled in allegory and illustrated with symbols.
I am sure now you will make the elixir as well.:):):)

Awani
12-09-2009, 03:40 PM
But I feel offended that no one thinks I'm smart enough to figure out this stuff on my own, after all I am a nuclear physicist.

I think it comes from the fact that success is often kept secret... so you have to get used to it. But it is great you are open!

So a bit off topic but considering your job you must have studied a little Quantum Physics etc, rigth?

:cool:

solomon levi
12-09-2009, 07:35 PM
Wow. Your thread's blowing up! Success is very attractive. :D
And why not? This is a rare moment. But thanks to your sharing, Ari ;), and to
our wonderful fraternity here at Alchemy Forums, I really see these occassions
becoming more frequent.
And what better timing - we should all (forgive my 'should') be working together
to make sol while the value is at all time high and there is still an economy.
If we really want to make the world a better place, it doesn't hurt to have some moolah.

Another idea about who to sell to - maybe private jewelers.

Ari, (may I call you Ari? {If this seems confusing to anyone, Ari means lion/leo
in hebrew, and 'The Ari' was a great Kabbalist}), I am honored if my posts have
assisted you in any way. My knowledge surpasses my ability for the moment, but
I am very happy if someone else can put it to work. I don't intend to remain far
behind - your reciprocation has given me some pretty good leads. I think I know
what path you followed. Wish me Godspeed!

I'm glad there are still people who can vouch for ormus. A certain person has
done a great dis-service by publicly denouncing it, while I am sure he keeps it
for his inner circle, because there was much open talk of success with it on his
old website. And while he badmouths David Hudson and Barry Carter, notice he
never says anything negative about the Essene, who is the one who taught him to
make the Red Lion from gold ormus.
(My fellow moderators and forum members - please understand that I am not
interested in talking about *** - I only mean to set the record straight on ormus.
As I have argued in the Ormus section of this forum, ormus is made the same way
gold calx is made, and the alchemists recognised this as "spiritual gold", perhaps
even "our gold". Do you share this opinion, Leo?)

Thanks again Frater Leo.

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 08:59 PM
I think it comes from the fact that success is often kept secret... so you have to get used to it. But it is great you are open!

So a bit off topic but considering your job you must have studied a little Quantum Physics etc, rigth?

:cool:
In fact quite a bit of quantum physics, for me it was all in reconciling general relativity with quantum mechanics. Thats why I was drawn to Hudson's work so, especially the part about super-deformity of the nucleus. But what solidified the reconciliation in my mind was a quick study of Paul Dirac and anti-matter. I realized then what most physicists fail to see in a lifetimes worth of work, that most of them disregard the other side of the mathematical zero-point, makes them miss what accounts for about 60% of the known universe , and so they call it dark matter and dark energy. Is actually not dark at all , its super-luminal. You see my understanding of physics and the universe and my recent experiences in alchemy only solidify my view more now. Btw Dirac was a rockstar:cool:

LeoRetilus
12-09-2009, 09:25 PM
As I have argued in the Ormus section of this forum, ormus is made the same way
gold calx is made, and the alchemists recognised this as "spiritual gold", perhaps
even "our gold". Do you share this opinion, Leo?)


Suffice it to say that the state of the gold calx makes the role of the alkahest a bit easier , almost instantaneous , however I believe it to be more a function of the ormus content that is attracted to the gold when it is in the right state. You see I believe alchemy has too much chemistry in it, its not this chemical or that , the power is in the one, the universal spirit, the right chemical combination is a function of building a chemical box or a home where that power can come to reside. Our starting matters accomplish the same end. This is why I believe it to be a type of anti-matter, because the glowing white alkahest can sublime in sunlight, like David Hudson's first experiment of putting the white powder to dry in the sunlight caused a flash of light, matter anihilating anti-matter in the release of pure energy, back to the zero-point -1+1=0, thats what Dirac had such a problem with in trying to reconcile Einstein's field equations for c squared, he had to use number matricies , me I see it in my head plain as day and wonder in its simplicity. Btw I now think that the Tunguska Explosion was an anti-matter explosion caused by an alchemist, if anyone else is successful don't go past the 7th multiplication or you wont live to see the fruits of your labors, not in this dimension anyhow and will take a fair amount of positive matter with you.:) Thats just my opinion however based on what is known of the event.

horticult
12-10-2009, 05:57 PM
LeoRetilus thanks a lot for your pictures.
Maybe you would be so kind a advise us with some hints.
All mine experiments with GW products on lead resulted only with little yellow parts on surface.

LeoRetilus
12-10-2009, 09:05 PM
I can tell you what helped me , first I look it as one big puzzle, there seems to be a few methods of gw that will end in our hearts desire. The first method I ever read was the Sigsimond Bacstrom Process, I read it, re-read it and read it again all the while trying to visualize what was taking place in that flask , at what stages is it wet, at what stages does it become dry ,how long does each stage take and how much heat is applied at each stage, notice nothing is ever added until it is specified towards the metallic kingdom, at what point is the flask opened for the first time and when is it resealed, what is kept and what is discarded at each stage, all this will gives us clues as to what parts of the gw are really important and must be kept and what parts are meaningless waste, then after you have visualized many times the experiement from start to finish, then read the Potpurri Alchemia Method and do the same for it study it carefully , then look at the Cabala mineralis manuscript pictograms and compare it to the Bacstrom process, its similar in some ways, concentrate on making the alkahest first, from then on the descriptions in regard to metallic kingdom specification even coincide with the Caro process (which isn't even the gw path) as to color changes observed, and finally get a good lock on the process before you go improvising and taking shortcuts, sorry but if I just tell you how to do it, it will take all the fun out of it, this will prevent guys sitting in Nigerian coffeshops looking for an angle from making a quick buck, off all our hard work.


Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

horticult
12-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Maybe we can a little discuss the "final" operation. :D
I used to melt lead on kitchen gas stove in a small "crucible" /mostly a spoon ;) /.
The product I enwrapped in in a ball of bees wax /not easy for small quanta/ and throw in. Except for a short BIG flame /from wax/ I saw nothing extra. Kept it 15 min liquid.

LeoRetilus
12-11-2009, 02:08 AM
Maybe we can a little discuss the "final" operation. :D
I used to melt lead on kitchen gas stove in a small "crucible" /mostly a spoon ;) /.
The product I enwrapped in in a ball of bees wax /not easy for small quanta/ and throw in. Except for a short BIG flame /from wax/ I saw nothing extra. Kept it 15 min liquid.

Spoon? Lol, were not cooking crack rocks here, sorry I couldn't resist that one.:D I 'don't mean to offend. Lets stick to iron crucibles free of any kinda loose debris and iron stirring rods. You will know its iron if is rusts, iron melts around 2800F gold at 1945F so we are fine. The iron is important, all metals give off different energy signatures when energy is added to them, i.e. in this case heat, heat causes electrons in metals to become energetic and bounces them around, and they share there energy, hopefully with our subject in the crucible, and for that it takes time longer than 15 min. and keep stirring if you're close and got the right stuff you will get ,"The Show", as I will refer to it from now on, you should see it within the first 15 min, but keep going till its over and don't stop even then, don't stop till it completely settles. But don't burn it off either, you can go too far and end in ruin. And most importantly use the historical amounts as far as ratios goes for the stones multiplication factor. Some how intuitively, I knew exactly what to do. Maybe its as Salazius says and its family karma, maybe our ancestors guide us.

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

horticult
12-11-2009, 11:17 AM
LeoRetilus what temperature did you use for that cooking?

/I also used a small iron crucible stirred with a spoke from bicycle; but spoon has a charm of "backyard" or "kitchen" alchemy. :D /

LeoRetilus
12-11-2009, 12:09 PM
Lets see here , the melting temperature of lead is approx 621F, so I tried to keep it right around there, please meditate for a while on the significance of red hot heat, it appears and reappears in our study of alchemical writings both old and new age. Think about where the color red lies in the electromagnetic spectrum, i.e. wavelength of red light and temperature of red fire in stars and what would the significance of a red sun be, why metals turn red hot at different temperatures and why I call myself the Red Lion.

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

Dizardos
12-16-2009, 01:35 PM
I do not doubt the nobility of your aims, LeoRetilus, but transmutations nevertheless do not prove Alchemical mastery. Every transmutation is indeed a great achievement, but Alchemy has never been the only Art that could create gold. Mastery of Life is the true, unique feature of the real Stone. What has been produced can do no such thing, great as the achievement is. This is not just my opinion. I can speak in the name of a small group located across forums who share the same perspective. Generally assumed democratic principles do not apply.

I cannot say more than this at this time and I was actually not supposed to say anything at all based upon my own word. It is only the alignment of certain events that make me say this.

Andro
12-16-2009, 04:01 PM
Mr. Dizardos,

I resonate with your words, your lines and what's between them, and also with the need of what you said to be said, given the current alignment you are probably refering to.

Awani
12-16-2009, 04:17 PM
I resonate with your words, your lines and what's between them, and also with the need of what you said to be said, given the current alignment you are probably refering to.

Can you be any more cryptic?

:D

Andro
12-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes, I can - but there is no need for it :)

I am merely exhibiting similar sensitivities to certain over- and undertones in this thread, similar (I believe) to what Mr. Dizardos is refering to. Any more explicit than that wouldn't be appropriate for this forum/thread/topic - so I'm moderating myself :D

Please consider it a simple declaration of agreement with what Mr. Dizardos has written above...

Thank you.

horticult
12-16-2009, 05:53 PM
I noticed only that LeoRetilus shared with us joy and hints of his success and planned next work.


Every transmutation is indeed a great achievement Celebrate every hen!

memphis_mizraim
12-16-2009, 06:27 PM
I can tell you what helped me , first I look it as one big puzzle, there seems to be a few methods of gw that will end in our hearts desire. The first method I ever read was the Sigsimond Bacstrom Process, I read it, re-read it and read it again all the while trying to visualize what was taking place in that flask , at what stages is it wet, at what stages does it become dry ,how long does each stage take and how much heat is applied at each stage, notice nothing is ever added until it is specified towards the metallic kingdom, at what point is the flask opened for the first time and when is it resealed, what is kept and what is discarded at each stage, all this will gives us clues as to what parts of the gw are really important and must be kept and what parts are meaningless waste, then after you have visualized many times the experiement from start to finish, then read the Potpurri Alchemia Method and do the same for it study it carefully , then look at the Cabala mineralis manuscript pictograms and compare it to the Bacstrom process, its similar in some ways, concentrate on making the alkahest first, from then on the descriptions in regard to metallic kingdom specification even coincide with the Caro process (which isn't even the gw path) as to color changes observed, and finally get a good lock on the process before you go improvising and taking shortcuts, sorry but if I just tell you how to do it, it will take all the fun out of it, this will prevent guys sitting in Nigerian coffeshops looking for an angle from making a quick buck, off all our hard work.


Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

What is the name of the document of Sigsimond Bacstrom Process?

solomon levi
12-16-2009, 08:09 PM
I don't know how to moderate this.
I know this is not the proper thread to have this discussion;
but I also feel like this discussion needs to be had.

Can we keep talk about personalities in the "general discussions" section or something?

These heated topics generally get deleted/removed.
But I think if there's something we should know about someone
posting here - a history or angle or whatever - people have a right to know it
I guess, if they want to.

But I don't know if you guys actually know eachother or just think you do. ??

I've moved Leo's post (with Dizardios' quote) to the general discussions under the title "Gymnasium (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=1194)" for wrestling ;)

LeoRetilus
12-16-2009, 09:18 PM
What is the name of the document of Sigsimond Bacstrom Process?


Here is a link to it: It is the long way , it was the one is was talking about previously, when I said to read it carefully and visualize about what was going on in the flask. In this method there is no substitution for the warm ,moist, animating nature of the dung heap, in its proximity to the earth and equally no substitution for the proper stopper and luting.

http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy/bacstrom1.htm

memphis_mizraim
12-16-2009, 09:58 PM
Here is a link to it: It is the long way , it was the one is was talking about previously, when I said to read it carefully and visualize about what was going on in the flask. In this method there is no substitution for the warm ,moist, animating nature of the dung heap, in its proximity to the earth and equally no substitution for the proper stopper and luting.

http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy/bacstrom1.htm

Thanks for the link I have this book. I will read again.

LeoRetilus
12-17-2009, 12:15 AM
At the begining of this thread when a said "A marriage....", some of those represent items that are corpreal, but there is one element however that is not and is absolutely neccessary lest we have toiled in vain, at the end of that Bacstrom process I introduced, he says"If the globes containing the subjects be three, four or more times electrified in the beginning, before you put them in the bath; so as to introduce the Electrical Universal principle, or the Universal Spirit of Nature into the subject by motion, the same spirit in the subject will be greatly strengthened, the operation will be accelerated and improved, and you will obtain an increase of the first White salt or sublimate below the Oak stoppers."
This is what I have done, and also in my own very special ways.

teofrast40
12-17-2009, 09:39 PM
Hallo to everyone,
first of all I must congratulate with Leoretilus for his achieving, and thank him for making me discover the amazing work of Von Reichenbach, that I loved.
Regarding Bacstrom's process, hod did you evince that the materia of this Work is urine? I don't recall the text saing it plainly, despite being very detailed on the process. I must say that when I red it, my first thoughts were on human blood, mainly for a striking similarity between the first operations in this text and a method for obtaining a "red earth" from blood for the purpose of an organic alchemy practice (Kremmerz anyone?)
but then I was young and stupid, now I would never do it..
hope not to offend anyone, I'm just trying to make up my mind.
cheers

solomon levi
12-18-2009, 02:38 AM
I believe the subject of that article is blood as well.

LeoRetilus
12-18-2009, 09:43 AM
There are many clues that lead to the fact that it is very much indeed not blood.
Quoting from the document

The first clue:"This process seems of great value as it is in the tradition of earlier alchemical texts, concealing its prima materia and yet explaining all the subsequent stages in great detail, while using the exact chemical terminology of the 18th century."

Common sense people this document does not contain the prima materia, that is clear, but blood is mentioned several times but only in regard that our magnet the "hadamah-the red dust of man" can be found in the blood of man, but does not reveal the prima materia by saying this.
And again he when he calls it "blood of the Universal spirit" will be found in the Hadamah or red earth when it forms--"In Hadamah lies concealed the blood that precious fluid wherein dwells the Universal Spirit"

People please comprehend the Universal Spirit is what we are after, I will explain later.

Second clue
"Hadamah signifies the first man Adam or Red Earth, which appears when the subject is dried up. In Hadamah lies concealed the blood that precious fluid wherein dwells the Universal Spirit, attracted by inspiration, and the Dust of the Red Earth, left by itself when the Universal fire nature quits it.
This Universal Fire is truly Nature. "

Here we are told that the red dust of man or the hadamah does not appear until the subject is dried up. If it were red to begin with, i.e. blood is red, we would not be told this for it would be red from the beginning and remain red , because we never open the flask until the metallic kingdom specification. This is the first clue that the red color does not appear until the subject putrifies, following is the second.

"Every morning and night take out your glasses and shake them gently every one, by a circular motion, in order to promote the solution of the red earth, which is generally effected in two or three weeks time. The whole earth dissolves into a deep ruby-red liquid, called by us Aqua Permanens or Chaos."
Here we are told that the red color is not affected until the universal spirit is attracted which prompts the red color or until it forsakes the body of the red earth and begins to rise. This phrase is important in that while it does till us that it cannot be blood, but does give us a hint as to what it is. Why are we told to shake it? Because if we shake urine as it putrifies ,we will have more oil form, which in actuality is the prima materia, he assumes you already have it. Its is this oil that will putrify and turn red. It is this oil and the phlem that forms beneath it that stinks like a corpse.

Now back to the most important phrase in the document about our true subject of the Stone, it is not a chemical, a compound or anything at all corpreal ,it is The Universal Spirit. "This is the subject of the Stone or Medicine of the Philosophers. The more you take this in its simple, universal, unspecified or unmarried state, the easier, simpler and greater is your work, but the more this subject is already specified the more troublesome prolix and expensive is your process. "
And this people goes for any path wet or dry that you might take.

However the spirit is never fully present in the ingredients of any path, it is attracted by the sacred geometry that we build with those ingredients, and mostly through the formation of crystaline compounds, these are clues that what is being attracted is in fact ormus, because what we know about ormus is that it too, likes tight spaces and crystaline formations in that it likes to hang out or is attracted to those tight places, away from magnetic fields. And especially by crystalline compounds that are hydroscopic or that absorb moisture such as acetic acid, and thats why there exists an acetate path and on and on. And also why we can extract the same universal spirit from living metals and living or animated minerals or ores and we are told many times by many philosphers that metals are killed or no longer living when they are melted, and that's because when the metallic crystal lattice is melted or destroyed the spirit escapes, but through a dry or fire path, we can take an animated mineral or ore and through the work of many eagles we can capture that spirit and it will appear always as a flower or star and we capture that many times and fix it to a glass flux, thus transfering it from one crystal lattice to another until it is so concentrated that the red salt appears.

It is this red salt that is attracted by the concentration of the spirit that will become The Stone of The Philospher or we can catch it before it turns red , when it is still white and and ferment it with silver and we get the silver tinging stone, but if we wait till it turns red and we ferment it with gold then we get a gold tinging stone.

Salazius
12-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Okay, blood or urine, both ways and methods are intersting.

But please, people, maybe you can be wrong. It's not because you followed your idea of a path in a document and it worked out for you that the path in the paper is really the one described.

And a crystalline structure mean information, specification, mercury. Of course the Stone will not be crystalline, or it is a particular. The Stone + gold is now a particular, and no more a Stone.
And yes, the capture or manifestation of spirit is in a crystalline or structured form.

solomon levi
12-18-2009, 11:41 AM
You want common sense Leo?
How much stone are you going to make from "not less than 8 and not more than 16
ounces" of urine?

"2nd ~ In five or six hours time the first natural separation is made: the water is carefully poured off as useless and pernicious."

If anyseparation in urine happens in 5 or 6 hours, you might have some oil in that time. Pouring off all the water from the oil is going to leave what? ....


"The cold subject is placed in a double piece of clean linen in a clean china basin, in order that the superfluous water may be soaked up or absorbed by the linen, and that the cake may become dry, in a cool shady place, free from dust. This superfluous water would retard and hinder putrefaction, which is the key to regeneration.

3rd ~ As soon as the Cake is freed from all superfluous humidity, cut it to pieces with an ivory knife (do not touch it with any metal) and put it by means of a glass funnel into your Globe Glass."

From a separation off of 16 oz of urine, the oil left to dry... you won't have
anything substantial enough that needs a knife for cutting.

memphis_mizraim
12-18-2009, 11:45 AM
Hallo to everyone,
first of all I must congratulate with Leoretilus for his achieving, and thank him for making me discover the amazing work of Von Reichenbach, that I loved.
Regarding Bacstrom's process, hod did you evince that the materia of this Work is urine? I don't recall the text saing it plainly, despite being very detailed on the process. I must say that when I red it, my first thoughts were on human blood, mainly for a striking similarity between the first operations in this text and a method for obtaining a "red earth" from blood for the purpose of an organic alchemy practice (Kremmerz anyone?)
but then I was young and stupid, now I would never do it..
hope not to offend anyone, I'm just trying to make up my mind.
cheers
message removed

memphis_mizraim
12-18-2009, 11:49 AM
There are many clues that lead to the fact that it is very much indeed not blood.
Quoting from the document

The first clue:"This process seems of great value as it is in the tradition of earlier alchemical texts, concealing its prima materia and yet explaining all the subsequent stages in great detail, while using the exact chemical terminology of the 18th century."

Common sense people this document does not contain the prima materia, that is clear, but blood is mentioned several times but only in regard that our magnet the "hadamah-the red dust of man" can be found in the blood of man, but does not reveal the prima materia by saying this.
And again he when he calls it "blood of the Universal spirit" will be found in the Hadamah or red earth when it forms--"In Hadamah lies concealed the blood that precious fluid wherein dwells the Universal Spirit"

People please comprehend the Universal Spirit is what we are after, I will explain later.

Second clue
"Hadamah signifies the first man Adam or Red Earth, which appears when the subject is dried up. In Hadamah lies concealed the blood that precious fluid wherein dwells the Universal Spirit, attracted by inspiration, and the Dust of the Red Earth, left by itself when the Universal fire nature quits it.
This Universal Fire is truly Nature. "

Here we are told that the red dust of man or the hadamah does not appear until the subject is dried up. If it were red to begin with, i.e. blood is red, we would not be told this for it would be red from the beginning and remain red , because we never open the flask until the metallic kingdom specification. This is the first clue that the red color does not appear until the subject putrifies, following is the second.

"Every morning and night take out your glasses and shake them gently every one, by a circular motion, in order to promote the solution of the red earth, which is generally effected in two or three weeks time. The whole earth dissolves into a deep ruby-red liquid, called by us Aqua Permanens or Chaos."
Here we are told that the red color is not affected until the universal spirit is attracted which prompts the red color or until it forsakes the body of the red earth and begins to rise. This phrase is important in that while it does till us that it cannot be blood, but does give us a hint as to what it is. Why are we told to shake it? Because if we shake urine as it putrifies ,we will have more oil form, which in actuality is the prima materia, he assumes you already have it. Its is this oil that will putrify and turn red. It is this oil and the phlem that forms beneath it that stinks like a corpse.

Now back to the most important phrase in the document about our true subject of the Stone, it is not a chemical, a compound or anything at all corpreal ,it is The Universal Spirit. "This is the subject of the Stone or Medicine of the Philosophers. The more you take this in its simple, universal, unspecified or unmarried state, the easier, simpler and greater is your work, but the more this subject is already specified the more troublesome prolix and expensive is your process. "
And this people goes for any path wet or dry that you might take.

However the spirit is never fully present in the ingredients of any path, it is attracted by the sacred geometry that we build with those ingredients, and mostly through the formation of crystaline compounds, these are clues that what is being attracted is in fact ormus, because what we know about ormus is that it too, likes tight spaces and crystaline formations in that it likes to hang out or is attracted to those tight places, away from magnetic fields. And especially by crystalline compounds that are hydroscopic or that absorb moisture such as acetic acid, and thats why there exists an acetate path and on and on. And also why we can extract the same universal spirit from living metals and living or animated minerals or ores and we are told many times by many philosphers that metals are killed or no longer living when they are melted, and that's because when the metallic crystal lattice is melted or destroyed the spirit escapes, but through a dry or fire path, we can take an animated mineral or ore and through the work of many eagles we can capture that spirit and it will appear always as a flower or star and we capture that many times and fix it to a glass flux, thus transfering it from one crystal lattice to another until it is so concentrated that the red salt appears.

It is this red salt that is attracted by the concentration of the spirit that will become The Stone of The Philospher or we can catch it before it turns red , when it is still white and and ferment it with silver and we get the silver tinging stone, but if we wait till it turns red and we ferment it with gold then we get a gold tinging stone.

"Every morning and night take out your glasses and shake them gently every one, by a circular motion, in order to promote the solution of the red earth, which is generally effected in two or three weeks time. The whole earth dissolves into a deep ruby-red liquid, called by us Aqua Permanens or Chaos."

Very like the Caro method?

memphis_mizraim
12-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Okay, blood or urine, both ways and methods are intersting.

But please, people, maybe you can be wrong. It's not because you followed your idea of a path in a document and it worked out for you that the path in the paper is really the one described.

And a crystalline structure mean information, specification, mercury. Of course the Stone will not be crystalline, or it is a particular. The Stone + gold is now a particular, and no more a Stone.
And yes, the capture or manifestation of spirit is in a crystalline or structured form.

Is not dangerous to work with your own blood.

Salazius
12-18-2009, 12:42 PM
Very like the Caro method?

Nope.



Is not dangerous to work with your own blood.


Yes it is. For several reasons. Only people, already adepts should work that. Only after proper purification of the psychism and with a good knowledge of the theurgy.

memphis_mizraim
12-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Nope.

I meant the movements not the process.

Yes it is. For several reasons. Only people, already adepts should work that. Only after proper purification of the psychism and with a good knowledge of the theurgy.

I meant the movements not the process.

Salazius
12-18-2009, 02:37 PM
Yes, I understood you. But the movement is not really really similar. Only in the mondification maybe before Solve. But after that ... it's quite more violent.

teofrast40
12-18-2009, 07:07 PM
good evening,
LeoRetilus I'm with you regarding the Spiritus Mundi and the use of salt as magnet. I would never dare to question your research, but I must humbly declare that I'm not so sure that blood or urine could be regarded as matter for the Great Work. I cannot ignore the warning of many ancient adepts that to search the Stone in human fluids, plants, and even in vulgar gold and mercury would be a complete waste of time.
I understand the appeal of Bacstrom to us modern people, always seeking for recipes, I'm the first. But to me it sounds like a particular. Archemy, as Fulcanelli called it.
And also i must say that this propedeutic theory that alchemy should start with vegetal works, then mineral and finally animal is found only in moderns (Albertus, Dubuis). Almost all the classics talk only about mineral work. And they say that it's child play (Affaires de femmes et jeux d'enfants).
As you maybe have guessed I don't like very much modern authors. I obviously started from them, as closer to my way of thinking, but soon got disappointed and decided to leave all of them - saving only fulcanelli- and to concentrate on the classics, starting from the elders.

regards

LeoRetilus
12-18-2009, 07:52 PM
You want common sense Leo?
How much stone are you going to make from "not less than 8 and not more than 16
ounces" of urine?


You are told, only a few grains, of the white sublimate will gather at the bottom of the oak stopper.

There is a yellow phelgm that forms in the urine after is putrifies, it forms in the center of the urine, and attached to the oil, by mucousy like tenderels. This is the prima materia, it will be placed in a clean china basin and in 5-6 hours the first natural seperation is made the water poured off as useless, as it hinders further putrification, that will turn this yellow phelgm red, this is the Hadamah, this is the magnet ,that will attract the Universal Spirit.

LeoRetilus
12-18-2009, 08:02 PM
Due to certain tones that have arisen towards me, that I do not feel are very warm and welcoming to my perspective. The post at the gymnasium will be my last.

Once again thank you and I wish you all luck. Be careful and be safe

memphis_mizraim
12-18-2009, 08:37 PM
Due to certain tones that have arisen towards me, that I do not feel are very warm and welcoming to my perspective. The post at the gymnasium will be my last.

Once again thank you and I wish you all luck. Be careful and be safe

Why have you left y Leo you are always going to different opinions on any forum some are right and some are wrong. No need to leave because someone disagrees with you.

Dizardos
12-19-2009, 01:25 PM
good evening,
LeoRetilus I'm with you regarding the Spiritus Mundi and the use of salt as magnet. I would never dare to question your research, but I must humbly declare that I'm not so sure that blood or urine could be regarded as matter for the Great Work. I cannot ignore the warning of many ancient adepts that to search the Stone in human fluids, plants, and even in vulgar gold and mercury would be a complete waste of time.
I understand the appeal of Bacstrom to us modern people, always seeking for recipes, I'm the first. But to me it sounds like a particular. Archemy, as Fulcanelli called it.
And also i must say that this propedeutic theory that alchemy should start with vegetal works, then mineral and finally animal is found only in moderns (Albertus, Dubuis). Almost all the classics talk only about mineral work. And they say that it's child play (Affaires de femmes et jeux d'enfants).
As you maybe have guessed I don't like very much modern authors. I obviously started from them, as closer to my way of thinking, but soon got disappointed and decided to leave all of them - saving only fulcanelli- and to concentrate on the classics, starting from the elders.

regards

An excellent choice.

Salazius
12-19-2009, 02:54 PM
I cannot ignore the warning of many ancient adepts that to search the Stone in human fluids, plants, and even in vulgar gold and mercury would be a complete waste of time.

Human fluids, recognised by R+C as the most Powerful kind of Stones, used for regeneration, plants for very interesting elixirs for long life and inner initiation, condensators of fluids, even Stones, vulgar Gold, like any other metal can be reincrudated and make a powerful Stone, like mercury Hg, too.

The Adept you quote, is, or stupid and ignorant, or very sincere since he pointed out all good matters to work with under a veiled language.

Andro
12-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Human fluids, recognised by R+C as the most Powerful kind of Stones, used for regeneration, plants for very interesting elixirs for long life and inner initiation, condensators of fluids, even Stones, vulgar Gold, like any other metal can be reincrudated and make a powerful Stone, like mercury Hg, too.

The Adept you quote, is, or stupid and ignorant, or very sincere since he pointed out all good matters to work with under a veiled language.

Mr. Salazius,

I find it highly synchronistic that I posted a similar reply to the 'Sperm' thread at about the exact same time that you posted on this one. ;)

Salazius
12-19-2009, 05:04 PM
:) Absolutely ! I saw that and it made me smile.

Ab Roek
12-19-2009, 07:34 PM
Salazius,

You should not take the words of the genuine Adepts so literally. Search for the spirit behind the letter. There is a definite truth which can be extracted, which will enable you to understand all the seemingly arcane words and phrases which have been spun out by the weaving spiders over time.

AB RK


Human fluids, recognised by R+C as the most Powerful kind of Stones, used for regeneration, plants for very interesting elixirs for long life and inner initiation, condensators of fluids, even Stones, vulgar Gold, like any other metal can be reincrudated and make a powerful Stone, like mercury Hg, too.

The Adept you quote, is, or stupid and ignorant, or very sincere since he pointed out all good matters to work with under a veiled language.

teofrast40
12-19-2009, 08:17 PM
oops, I don't want to bring on futile quarrels.
I don't meant to question anyone's opinion. I was just pointing out what I've found after my decision to let be modern authors, including RC literature (of which RC are you talking about, Salazius? Gold- und Rosenkreutz, Amorc, FARC, Golden Down? almost every occult society claim its origins to be RC), and concentrate on the classics. The "stupids" that I've red are adepts of the caliber of fulcanelli, geber, artephius, cosmopolite, st didier, cyliani, crasellame, etc. The only stupid could have been me, who interpreted them in the wrong way.

with respect
t

memphis_mizraim
12-20-2009, 01:13 AM
oops, I don't want to bring on futile quarrels.
I don't meant to question anyone's opinion. I was just pointing out what I've found after my decision to let be modern authors, including RC literature (of which RC are you talking about, Salazius? Gold- und Rosenkreutz, Amorc, FARC, Golden Down? almost every occult society claim its origins to be RC), and concentrate on the classics. The "stupids" that I've red are adepts of the caliber of fulcanelli, geber, artephius, cosmopolite, st didier, cyliani, crasellame, etc. The only stupid could have been me, who interpreted them in the wrong way.

with respect
t
Sorry but all of the groups you just mentioned are complete rubbish. All have made up fictional lineages and some use brain washing techniques and live of the money of members and sadly most run from America.
I still feel there just might be a small number of people who know the real secret of alchemy. Germany would be the place ro start looking, I find it hard to believe this tradition has died out in that country but who knows after two world wars what can happen. Prague is also an interesting place and perhaps a small group exists there. Perhaps also South of France has a group. All very discreet and not open.

Ab Roek
12-20-2009, 01:18 AM
MM,

I used to hunt for secret groups obsessively. After long years of frustration and futility, I learned to begin trusting myself. Since that moment of crisis, I have made some satisfactory progress along the alchemical path, although I have not made an Alchemical Stone by either the ancient or modern definition of that phrase.

AB RK


Sorry but all of the groups you just mentioned are complete rubbish. All have made up fictional lineages and some use brain washing techniques and live of the money of members and sadly most run from America.
I still feel there just might be a small number of people who know the real secret of alchemy. Germany would be the place ro start looking, I find it hard to believe this tradition has died out in that country but who knows after two world wars what can happen. Prague is also an interesting place and perhaps a small group exists there. Perhaps also South of France has a group. All very discreet and not open.

teofrast40
12-20-2009, 01:29 AM
Sorry but all of the groups you just mentioned are complete rubbish.

that's exactly why I named them.
I don't trust secret societies

Salazius
12-20-2009, 10:19 AM
Hi !

AB RK :


You should not take the words of the genuine Adepts so literally. Search for the spirit behind the letter. There is a definite truth which can be extracted, which will enable you to understand all the seemingly arcane words and phrases which have been spun out by the weaving spiders over time.

I agree, but some do speak literally too, depending the context.
And yes I agree also concerning all the very good informations we can have in those texts.

Teofrast :


oops, I don't want to bring on futile quarrels.
Don't worry, if there is no mind, there is no problem.


I don't meant to question anyone's opinion.
Yes, but on a forum it's hard to not have anyone else opinion lol


I was just pointing out what I've found after my decision to let be modern authors, including RC literature (of which RC are you talking about, Salazius? Gold- und Rosenkreutz, Amorc, FARC, Golden Down? almost every occult society claim its origins to be RC), and concentrate on the classics.

The "stupids" that I've red are adepts of the caliber of fulcanelli, geber, artephius, cosmopolite, st didier, cyliani, crasellame, etc. The only stupid could have been me, who interpreted them in the wrong way.

R+C for me are in the idea of Fulcanelli : not an order, but a person who have the Red Stone.
Concerning orders, since the moment they are sincere and give very good things it's okay. Since the moment they are more interested in your purse and glory than in your enlightenment ... it is really a problem.


The "stupids" that I've red are adepts of the caliber of fulcanelli, geber, artephius, cosmopolite, st didier, cyliani, crasellame, etc.

Don't put in my mouth that all adepts are stupids, why do you say that !
I see that the word stupid I put made some echoes, that's not bad.
I said that about this one you quote. And you don't even say who it is, so ...
And of course, it was a word to make an emphasis about the non stupidity of this person, and the generosity of it's words... okay i will explain it more the next time I say and Adept is stupid lol so here the deciphering process :

First, "because we do not use gold, or blood, or mercury in the opus, not of the vulgar" you can hear. And I do say that too. You have to hear "the philosophical" one. What does it mean ? You will not make an amalgam of mercury and gold and put it to cook like that, it will not work... you have to take philosophical mercury and philosophical gold, maybe made out of vulgar mercury and vulgar gold ! This is what he means ! (hey isn't this the spirit behind the letter huh ? ;))
So by saying do not use gold or blood, he say, in a first sens : do not use it like that, and in the second sens : you can use for the opus these matters.

You know, being an adept do not mean knowing everything on the universe ... a lack of hermetical knowledge can still be there and and the Adept is not yet a Deity incarnated since there is no Body of Glory. Fulcanelli say that one Adept he heard about didn't know to read. Yes, he was ignorant for this, but he knew the Magnum Opus by heart !
So, we have to understand that an Adept with the Red Stone begin a long Way, even harder than what he comes to acheive. By seeing this, they all say "oh my God, in comparison, what I've just accomplished is a women's work and child play!" :D lol

teofrast40
12-20-2009, 01:37 PM
hi,
Salazius, of course I have no problem in comparing opinions, just don't want to bring the conversation to harsh tones :)
so when you say RC you mean it according to fulcanelli. and where did you find an accomplished adept RC telling you plainly to use those matters? please quote your fonts. The first text I've been able find that talks about urine, for example, is the Thesaurus Thesaurorum A Fraternitate Rosae et Aureae Crucis Testamento, Germany, circa 1700.
Regarding my fonts, at first I did not make an exact quote as there are so many authors that tell you to stay in the mineral kingdom, anyway in the thread "sperm" I quoted Limojon de Saint Didier (to me one of the most sincere):
"They (fake philosipher) have worked on certain herbs, on animals, on blood, on urine, on hairs, on sperm, and on things of this nature: those have moved away from the True Way."
Sorry, but the interpretation you gave of the spirit behind the letter to me doesn't fit quite well here.
cheers

Salazius
12-20-2009, 07:47 PM
You seems to not beleive that all these matters (vegetable and animal) cannot give a Stone. So, try, and we will talk later.

Until then, everything I could explain, you could not reveive it for valuable information because you prefer books to the Materia Herself and her (yes 'her', because it's a living entity) work in the lab, she tells you more than old books and more cleraly, she speaks, but who listen ?

A metal is far less able to receive spiritus mundi than blood, it's not obvious for you ?

teofrast40
12-20-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm eager to start working, but first I need to pray, study the book of the ancients and our Lady, ask the right questions and find the answers, as every alchemist did in the past. Patience is the ladder of the philosophers.
I could start a spagyric recipe tomorrow, but would that be alchemy?
I'm happy to know that you have already started your work with matter, and I wish you sincerely all the best luck for your lab research. When I will start mine, I'll move my firts steps according to what I have understood of the ancient texts and Nature, if experience will prove me wrong, i will change my mind.
I read the texts trying to do my best to understand and find the spirit behind the letter. To start from a recipe and stretch the meaning of the letter to giustify it would'nt help me much as an alchemist.
To me Alchemy hasn't much to do with recipes.

"A metal is far less able to receive spiritus mundi than blood, it's not obvious for you ? "

Not at all!!

Salazius
12-21-2009, 07:54 AM
I wish you all the best possible in your Alchemical and Spagyrical works.

Finding your answers by yourself, testing everything possible, studying Nature deeply (which is very hard, and need a special mind set to accomplish) is the good way. Make your way and find success !

You have to find all the keys of the Opus. These Universal Keys can unlock you all possible ways. Once in hand, you can work relaxed :)

Andro
12-22-2009, 01:04 AM
I think I've read hundreds of Alchemical books/texts over the years, and they all pale in comparison to the day I got my first positive and reassuring results in the lab.

For as long as all I did was read - all I had was opinions.

:cool:

Ab Roek
12-22-2009, 02:32 AM
Amen. Until you have learned something by experience, you have not truly learned it.
Mere intellectual knowledge is worthless, unless it is put to the fire of trial.


I think I've read hundreds of Alchemical books/texts over the years, and they all pale in comparison to the day I got my first positive and reassuring results in the lab.

For as long as all I did was read - all I had was opinions.

:cool:

Hephælios
12-22-2009, 02:55 AM
Results are only as good as the opinion you have of them. A case in point would be the original post of this thread.

Andro
12-22-2009, 04:43 AM
Results are only as good as the opinion you have of them. A case in point would be the original post of this thread.

Mr. Hephælios,

Practical and measurable results are our ticket out of the Land of Psycho-Semantics.

My first successful lab result was a certain oil which exhibited the exact same medical properties on different people with a similar condition, and the result was the complete and lasting reversal of the respective condition.

It was most certainly not a matter of opinion, but of tested practical results. The medical condition I am refering to was incidentally easily and objectively visible and testable, and it was gone (and stayed gone) after treatment with the aforementioned oil.

Where is the opinion in that?

If Mr. Reptilus had had his results tested and his results proven to be those of a successful transmutation, it would have similarly removed the opinion factor. His own agendas and personal views on reality in general and of Alchemy in particular would not and could not invalidate the practical success of his transmutation experiment for all the chanting and argueing in the world.

Theoretically, if I would make and show you a device that can fly (let's say, an airplane :)) - would you still argue that it's only flying in my opinion?

Ghislain
12-22-2009, 05:01 AM
Maybe there is more to the quote by Napoleon Hill:
"What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve: "
Than one realises

Ghislain

Hephælios
12-22-2009, 09:49 PM
...Where is the opinion in that?
I can find ample opinion in that example. I am not doubting your lab examples efficacy- nor the claim of Leo's transmutation...I doubt the claim of its alchemical origin. Sadly it is an semantic battle. Unless you can demonstrate that your lab result show all the correct faculties and form attributed to the stone then it is doubtful that from an historic perspective- you or I or anyone else for that matter, can consider to have obtained truthfully alchemical works.

Theoretically, if I would make and show you a device that can fly (let's say, an airplane ) - would you still argue that it's only flying in my opinion?
No but if you folded a nice sheet of ledger paper several times, threw it up in the air and it took flight... I certainly wouldn't get on board.

Shadow
01-04-2010, 02:27 AM
Hello. I'm new here, but I wanted to share my similar experience in this method (by accident some time ago). I must tell you, it does not form gold, but rather oxides of lead. Indeed, if one heats lead to high temperatures in the presence of oxygen, first a dark violet color will be observed, followed ultimately by a gold-colored oxide. There may be other colors in between, but it has been some time since I observed this. My point is that not everything which appears to be gold really is gold; this seems truer of the simpler processes. Can anyone here verify or refute this?

Seth-Ra
01-04-2010, 03:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAFzq1l1ZlE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_oxide

I can indeed verify that lead turns into a yellow oxide at high heat with oxygen. :D

Thus, i would imagine that a yellow-lead-oxide does not stand up to the chemical tests used to verify the authenticity of gold, so a simple test or several should give definite proof of transmutation or not, yes? ;)

Andro
01-08-2010, 04:16 AM
I can indeed verify that lead turns into a yellow oxide at high heat with oxygen.

Lead Oxide (PbO) is made by heating lead in air up to approx. 600 °C. (according to Wikipedia)

However, lead already melts at 327.46 °C, which is high enough to perform a transmutation, but much lower than the point where it becomes PbO.

I think a much easier way to validate this would be to inquire about the max. temperature the lead reached during the transmutation experiment.

Seth-Ra
01-08-2010, 04:44 AM
I agree. That would be one of the simple tests to perform/ask indeed. Like i said, it is technically pretty simple to prove a transmutation, either it is gold, or it isnt. Either its a substance that is normally made from that material, or a legit transmutation/change occurred. ;)

LeoRetilus
01-08-2010, 05:36 AM
Well , number one, applying the principles of redox, if its an oxide it can't very well be a metal. So if I have a gold colored metal and not an oxide, i.e, its ductile like a metal, its maleable like a metal and conducts heat and electricity like a metal, then its a metal and not an oxide. If I had any colored oxide of lead and reduced it back into a metal it would be lead again, and take on the colors and properties of lead, it wouldn't remain gold, and neither would it melt at 1940F, which is the melting temperature of gold, and remain gold.

My transmuting took place at the melting temperature of lead(621F), and nothing happened until I threw the Stone encased in beeswax into the molten lead, it blazed up, burnt the wax off, then the lead began to flower(actually grow crystals or carbunucles out of the molten lead then lay back down) and became iridescent as I stirred with the iron rod, at this point it began to set off a geiger counter placed on a table a couple of feet away, does lead oxide do that?(rhetorical question) After the irridescense passed , the rainbow color settled on gold, indicating to me that ,that layer was now perfected into gold, and then hardened.

Side Note on Irridescence: (please read this page on living photonic crystals, with emphasis on the atomic crystal lattice:http://www.mfa.kfki.hu/int/nano/online/2002_butterfly/, )these insects as well as the bugs that Grebennikov studied( I'll refer you back to this page that I presented in the geode thread http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_oro7.htm)are similar in that their wings are made of chitin, chitin is a wonderous material that has very pertinent alchemical value. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin "It is the main component of the cell walls of fungi" ;) , "Moreover, chitin has some unusual properties that accelerate healing of wounds in humans"

I had to physically peel back the gold layer that resembled foil away from the molten lead, with the iron rod, this exposed a new layer of quick molten grey lead to the air and the whole thing happened again , this took place for about 30 minutes until the Stone was, "used up" for lack of a better word, after which nothing happened anymore, it was just grey molten lead with no color change occuring, if I was creating lead oxide it would have went on and on, but it didn't , the conversion stopped and the geiger counter likewise stopped.

As alchemists and lovers of the truth, we have to become scientists, metallurgists, physicsits, entomologists, horticulturilists, and astronomers for nature spreads her spectrum of truth throughout the whole of creation.

Shadow
01-12-2010, 04:18 AM
Well if it created detectable radiation, then that changes things, indeed. I know the story of helvetius and covering the stone in wax. I found it interesting since paraffin is a neutron moderator. How do you make the stone exactly? :D

LeoRetilus
01-12-2010, 10:12 PM
How do you make the stone exactly? :D

That's a good one... made me smile. If it took me telling you that radiation was produced, for you to believe it was possible, then I would have to say that my intial impression is that alchemy may not be for you. You will find no direct scientific explanation for how the stone works, your efforts to try and quantify and qualify its powers will not lead you to a grand revelation. The search for the Philosopher's Stone is indeed the search for the Holy Grail, it is the true cup of Christ that grants eternal life. Why do you seek it , is it for your glory or for his. The stone is protected by God and he will not shine its countanance on those who are not pure of thought, those who work for themselves and pray for guidance will receive the revelations. You can begin by asking the right questions, but first you must know enough to know what the right questions are. So study this site, all of the keys to the Opus are here, it takes the right mindset and a thorough study of nature, then you will truely wonder and marvel at her splendor as a newborn child that has just entered the world:)

Shadow
01-13-2010, 09:44 PM
So what you're really saying is, "I know something I won't tell. na na na na boo boo!"

Really.

It's not that I believe you. I already know that transmuting things to gold is possible. However, there are frauds and self-deluded people in every area of study, and it is in my best interest to identify those who are most likely so.

If you claim to have the philosopher's stone but will not say anything more, despite ongoing posts, it becomes clear that you are merely seeking attention. But attention in such a case would be most undesirable.

Alchemy was always a form of science, even if not as methodical as what we use today. So to say that science does not hold the answer astounds me, because it shows that you are really unfamiliar with it.

On a technical note, oxidation of a metal will occur at its surface, while leaving the underlying metallic mass unoxidized. What you described is exactly this. Quite possibly your "stone" simply heated the lead beyond what it already was, allowing it to oxidize. Exothermic reactions can do that.

I'm open to other possibilities, but without technical details from you I am left with the conclusion that you are only an attention-seeker.

LeoRetilus
01-13-2010, 10:02 PM
Then please by all means do not allow my attention seeking schemes to consume anymore of your time.There are others who would listen

Andro
01-14-2010, 10:30 AM
Why do I get the feeling that some people here are under the impression that LR works for them? And not just LR, but all those who actually bring something new to the table and challenge old and rigid belief systems by stirring up some prevailing paradigms and comfort zones, scientific/religious or otherwise. And there are also the recipe hunters and the ones who like to be spoonfed everything... And when they don't get exactly what they want, they start calling names and jumping to conclusions without a parachute...

This reminds me of the fable with the fox who had an appetite for grapes but couldn't jump high enough to reach them, so it decided they were sour.
The fact that you aren't tall enough to reach the grapes doesn't mean they're sour. It just means you can't rise high enough to find out by yourself :rolleyes:.

Like a child craving for the candy on that top shelf... He can cry and demand until some immature adult gives in, or he can grab a chair, climb on it and get the candy himself. Of course, he may fall off the chair a few times, but when he finally succeeds, the candy will taste SO MUCH SWEETER :p

solomon levi
01-14-2010, 07:26 PM
First, I don't think Leo ever said this is the Philosophers' stone.
There's lots of stones, you know. If he did say that I missed it.

Second, who in their right mind would post a recipe for the Philosophers'
stone because someone is challenging them or wants proof? Not giving the recipe
is not at all an indication of fraud, but an indication of wisdom IMO.

Third, if you look at what has been given, and have some understanding of
alchemy, you can decide if the method, while not detailed but outlined, is
plausible. From what i know, it is a plausible method for a transmuting stone.

Fourth, I think it is wise to not believe; but also wise to not disbelieve.
It's ok to say "I don't know". :) "I don't know" is a wonderful place.
"I want proof" on the other hand, is a pretty unpeaceful place. Even if you
are given the recipe and it doesn't work for you, it isn't proof that it doesn't work
for everyone. Proof seekers are rarely satisfied - not because there are lots of liars
out there... it's just a very conditioned place, generally pre-arranged to fail due
to those conditions/definitions which are faulty in the first place.


Lastly, as a moderator, I'll ask that Shadow not push this anymore.
Your position has been recognised. I think Leo gave a fair reply.
If you, Shadow, see some fault with the process, feel free to comment;
but let's keep personalities to a minimum, please.

I don't think of this forum as a place to prove or disprove people/personalities,
but a place to discuss methods of alchemy.
But if someone does make claims just for attention, the moderators will try to address it. For this is also not a place to sell things, including oneself.

I hope that sounds fair/moderate. :)
solomon

LeoRetilus
01-15-2010, 09:37 AM
First of all at this point I am becoming to feel very sorry that I even
started this thread, I never imagined it would get this far out of hand
or attract this much attention, negative or otherwise. I was new to
this forum and forums in general when I did so and didn't know how to
share my "Success" here, likewise nor how to react properly to
personal attacks, and I am still learning how to do that. So in many
ways I am still quite immature, I can see that. Furthermore, now I
realize that the proper way to share, would have been to just reply to
one of the other threads on urine or GW and the impact to this
community would have been minimal and that would have been ideal.
But whats done is done and I can't do anything about that now, I can
only look forward. When I was first skimming through the threads of this
site I gathered some impressions of some members who regularly post,
and that was that some had already had completed the Magnum Opus, and I
felt I was only playing catch up at first, so I guess that overwhelming
feeling of having been left behind was what compelled me to succeed.
And I got some great leads that lead to my success by studying those
threads/posts which supplemented to great extent that which I already
knew.
So that being said I never felt personally nor meant to impress upon
anyone that I was presenting anything, "new", I was only trying to
impart my personal perspectives on some matters in such a way that I
understood them best. For I hadn't read many books on alchemy, and
quite frankly most that I glanced through seemed a bit outdated in
terms of terminology and used alot of words that had certain meanings
200 hundred years ago that have quite different meanings today, as well
as being too far open to personal interpretation and translation and
some in which authors even contradict themselves and other authors
and this seemed somewhat like the bible in some senses to me and for
those reasons I detest reading matter written in such a way, with double meanings and reverse
psychology. I hope nobody is offended in me saying that, and like
others have already stated, books do have their place, they are good for
reference, but there is no better teacher than personal experience. And so instinctively
I opted to make a closer study of nature instead and by that I mean really getting outside and
really looking at her, I am quite thankful that I live in such a place, greatly isolated from
civilization and among natural wonders and snow capped volcanoes and petrified forests
in a place of great beauty with the ocean within site all around me and mother nature at my feet
in being able to reach down and pick up all manners of minerals, gold ores included
from up off the ground.
Regarding my perspectives, in how I presented them, I apologize to
everyone if too much of my personality came out in the process, but its
hard to be human and not have a personality. They are like opinions and
you know what else....everybody has them. And yes they do bleed through
in everybody's posts, whether we realize it or not. Nobody is perfect.
Likewise I never proclaimed to have complete alchemical mastery or be
an adept. But at least I am putting myself out there to be scrutinized,
and to be measured and that is of way more value than those who would
criticize such a person, for they risk nothing at all and gain
everything that that person has to offer, taking what they like without
much gratitude and criticizing what they don't. Influencing in the process the
reputation of he who is offering his work up with much insolent
disdain. And like a movie or a food critic, less goes into their
opinion than the work and the passion that went into creating what is
being criticized in the first place, regardless of its overall worth.

Furthermore I believe what I have revealed and hinted at and the clues
that I have left in different places is really quite generous and maybe
a little more than what I should have done and way more than others on
this forum would be comfortable with in revealing. But I will continue
this policy because I believe quite fervently that if I or anyone
else would give up all that I/they own, knowledge included, as if it
meant nothing to that person at all, that they would be rewarded with
far greater gifts than those which I clung to so selfishly, and so far
that has served me quite well. Its like the parable that Jesus taught
about giving away all your possessions to follow him or his path without
looking back, knowing in your heart that what you were moving towards would
be greater than that which you left behind. But that being said it
doesn't mean that I or anybody else should or will tell anyone point
blank, exactly how to make the stone. Nobody since the beginnings of
this science has ever done that, and why should I be the first? There
is nothing special about me, I am merely a seeker like everyone else
here, trying to discover my destiny, trying to come to know ourselves
and the meaning of our lives while trying to create a legacy for
ourselves to present to those we love and leave behind in the process.
I am and will continue to be your humble servant, all the while trying
to keep my ego in check and turn the other cheek.
Your brother with all sincerity and in the Great Work

Frater L.R.

teofrast40
01-15-2010, 04:40 PM
hi retilus,
as I said I'm very grateful to you for your stimulating considerations, and sincerely congratulate for your lab work.


But that being said it
doesn't mean that I or anybody else should or will tell anyone point
blank, exactly how to make the stone

I'm quite convinced that having the exact recipe of the Stone would not garantee succes in making it. it's the same difference that lies between knowing the color composition of a painting and actually painting it.
they call it Art for a reason..
cheers

LeoRetilus
01-15-2010, 09:32 PM
I'm quite convinced that having the exact recipe of the Stone would not garantee succes in making it. it's the same difference that lies between knowing the color composition of a painting and actually painting it.
they call it Art for a reason..
cheers

I appreciate you very much Teofrast and glad you loved the works of Von Reichenbach I presented, however regarding the above, that point can be argued to some extent. While there are paths to the stone that can be left open to the influence of many failure inducing variables and some interpretation on the part of the artist, there are other paths that eliminate such interpretation and if followed very carefully to the letter will ensure success to everyone. These are the paths most prudently guarded, while others especially like The Red Lion path that I presented can take months to complete and perfect the stone and can end in ruin at any point along the process. The reason I would post such a path is that only those with a solid understanding of alchemy and experience would attempt it, and the guy looking for the "easy bake oven" method will leave it. I will not make the art of alchemy into just another form of a get rich quick scheme. There is archemy for that and I presented some forms of it as well, so that whoever is looking to just get rich quick might discover the marvels of true alchemy in the process,and maybe convert that greed in him into some form of charity, that is one virtue of the stone, for what good is wealth if you aren't around long enough to enjoy it, in which long life is another.

Hephælios
01-16-2010, 01:02 AM
This reminds me of the fable with the fox who had an appetite for grapes but couldn't jump high enough to reach them, so it decided they were sour.
The fact that you aren't tall enough to reach the grapes doesn't mean they're sour. It just means you can't rise high enough to find out by yourself :rolleyes:.

Like a child craving for the candy on that top shelf... He can cry and demand until some immature adult gives in, or he can grab a chair, climb on it and get the candy himself. Of course, he may fall off the chair a few times, but when he finally succeeds, the candy will taste SO MUCH SWEETER :p

Tantalus

http://www.hellados.ru/img/pic/tantalus.jpg

Andro
01-16-2010, 09:07 AM
Tantalus is trapped in a loop caused by his child-ego state. Always reaching out, but never thinking to climb the tree by himself. The tree controls him instead of the other way around :)

To be more archetypal, the elements control him instead of him controlling the elements. The tree is kept alive by the water in which it stands. Their existences are interdependent and hardwired together. He could lay down 'attempting to drink', make the water permanently recede and the tree wither, and thus destroy his seamingly escape-proof archetypal prison. But he doesn't understand Nature. He can't think ouside the box. Or climb on one. :D

Hephælios
01-16-2010, 10:12 PM
I believe the large stone hanging over his head prevented such asinine measures.

Andro
01-17-2010, 08:07 AM
I believe the large stone hanging over his head prevented such asinine measures.

What if he can find a way to make the stone fall down and then climb on it? :D
After all, Tantalus DID outsmart the gods once - so I see no reason why he couldn't do it again... Oh, yes... FEAR :eek: :eek: :eek:

What's asinine is to remain in the loop and not try to rise above it.
Being stuck in mental/archetypal prison constructs, is the hallmark of armchair philosophers.

The prisoner's first duty is to escape, even if the prison is only in his mind.
The official New Hampshire motto "Live Free Or Die" comes to mind.

Besides, he's in Tartarus and already dead, so what effect will the stone have? Kill him again?

And maybe "dying" is exactly the gateway he needs to move beyond his prison. Remember Edmond Dantes/Monte Cristo?
BTW, I find the transformation of Edmond Dantes into the Count of Monte Cristo to be a very powerful Alchemical allegory.

This is exactly the type of mental box I've been talking about here and there...
Someone prefering to be stuck in a loop for all eternity instead of actually DOING something to break the cycle.

I have a client who is miserable in her marriage and says she's "dying" to get out of it, but everytime we come up with escape paths, she always finds a reason why not.
"Yes, but what about the tree? Yes, but what about the water? Yes, but what about the rock?" And so on... Typical victim mentality...

I'll conclude with one of my favorite sayings, this time from the late Robert Monroe:

"A true paradox refuses to exist."

Seth-Ra
01-17-2010, 08:18 AM
Typical victim mentality...

I agree, i for one do not like such a mentality, and its damn-near impossible to help someone who has such a mentality, which is truly sad, for their sake.





"A true paradox refuses to exist."

Dude, that is an awesome quote. :D

Ghislain
01-17-2010, 10:38 AM
"A true paradox refuses to exist."

The paradox only exists in this case because of Robert Monroe's
expletive as, if he had not said it and it refused to exist then it
truely would not exist and therefore there would be no paradox.

That Monroe hey :rolleyes:

Ghislain :D

Hephælios
01-17-2010, 11:22 PM
What if he can find a way to make the stone fall down and then climb on it?

Why stop there...why not rewrite the rest of the story to your own whim(s)?

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 12:18 AM
Why stop there...why not rewrite the rest of the story to your own whim(s)?

Why can't we rewrite our own stories(lives) according to our whims? And free ourselves from the associations of the likes of Tantalus and Sisyphus . These prison constructs are created by our own minds that condemn us to a life time of pushing stones uphill in circles.

Why do we search/travel far and wide in search of the stone, when it has been in our hands or hanging over our heads the whole time.

Hephælios
01-18-2010, 12:41 AM
By all means, write whatever you wish; but those stories are written with reason in mind. It's why Jesus turned water into wine, instead of Gatorade. Bending them to your whim requires little effort and awards paltry rewards. This notion (of Tantalus) has its place as it exists intact... ignoring it is tantamount to Plato's cave.

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 12:47 AM
By all means, write whatever you wish; but those stories are written with reason in mind. It's why Jesus turned water into wine, instead of Gatorade. Bending them to your whim requires little effort and awards paltry rewards. This notion (of Tantalus) has its place as it exists intact... ignoring it is tantamount to Plato's cave.

We are not ignoring the lesson, after all its a parable no? There is a message there to be sure. But why do we have to fall victim to the same traps?

Can we not see that we are all Tantalus in some way, after all, you brought him up?

Did not Jesus also say that first you must remove the thorn from your own eye so that you may see clear enough to remove the one from your brothers?

Seth-Ra
01-18-2010, 03:11 AM
I think i get what they Hephælios is saying: regardless of one's own story, there is still the foundational reality who's laws must be adhered to. We can create in the ways we are given, by the laws laid out in Nature. One cannot break these laws, for it simply does... nothing. :p
Nature (and/or God :cool:) blesses those who follow her wisdom, and gives death to them that reject their teachings.

Just because you make your brian believe the leaf isnt there, doesnt mean that it isnt, just means you refuse to see it, which can be disastrous if its a land-mine of nature. ;)

Seek Truth, not self-ordained illusion.

~Seth-Ra

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 03:28 AM
Just because you make your brian believe the leaf isnt there, doesnt mean that it isnt, just means you refuse to see it, which can be disastrous if its a land-mine of nature. ;)

Seek Truth, not self-ordained illusion.

~Seth-Ra

I think in time, if one is fortunate, he will see that life is more of an illusion than he believes and that in fact :


"Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. "

"Bend yourself" and follow "the weirding way" Natures Laws can in fact be broken but you must know them well enough to give them new form.

Or you can take the blue pill and go back to sleep, the story ends you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe ........ignorance can be bliss......or make the red pill(red stone) and swallow it and see how deep the rabbit hole goes!

Seth-Ra
01-18-2010, 03:43 AM
The "blue pill" is what the most everyone already has, and continues to take. The self-ordained illusion, though being many in form, is the same in essence, the arrogance/ego of man thinking "im so great, i can do whatever i wish, and f**k the laws, ill make my own."
That is not the way at all, and only leads to destruction. To take the "red pill" and be awaken, requires one to break free of self, and look at what is really going on around them, and look at how nature is working, understand her, and work to accomplish the Great Work of Nature, it will reward you, the self, the worker, but it rewards more so by uniting you with that All that is Nature, and whats there.

We do not create new Nature, we create new illusions to keep our eyes off of the 1 Nature. ;)

Ab Roek
01-18-2010, 04:12 AM
In the end, you only see what you want to see. This is both a great blessing, and a curse, for those trapped in their own point of view.

The chains that bind the strongest, are your own desires.

"This is the strong force of all forces, overcoming every subtle and penetrating every solid thing."

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 04:35 AM
To bend yourself , is to open your mind to new endless possibilites. To stop believing the world is flat is to be able to travel around it. To believe that nature's laws, like gravity, hold no sway over you is to be able to fly and make water travel against it! If man continued to believe what he perceived were natures laws were unbreakable we would still be traveling the world in wooden ships afraid that if we traveled too far we would fall off. This is why yesterdays science fiction has become today's science fact. Because what man conceives/dreams he can accomplish will ultimately come to be and nature will create the new reality by bending to his will. This is what makes life an illusion because it becomes all so surreal.




We do not create new Nature........

To try to return the subject of this thread to practical alchemy, I'll say I can only agree with you on the above "We do not create new Nature.." in the sense that Basil Valentine in the Tweleve Keys (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/twelvkey.html) tells us "Man was not to be able to produce new seed:...
but contrarily to what you disallow. "he was only permitted to educe new forms of life out of that which already existed"
This my friend is what true alchemy is all about, taking matter (vegetable,mineral,animal) stripping God's intention from it ,which made it what is was in the first place, through laboratory work ( if we are familiar with the art), and it will always be reduced into the same three principals regardless of the starting matters. And then we will unite the three, now blank, and program the new subject with our own intentions, in this way we create new life as God does, as we were meant to do, by being made in his image.

But practical alchemy is only the beginning you must strengthen your will to be able to program the new matter with your intentions, and there is "Great Work" in achieving this, this is where the outer alchemy ends and the inner alchemy begins. But in truth you should begin with the inner and perfect yourself before you will be able to educe perfection outside of yourself, this is the true great work, the rest is just woman's work and child's play.

Andro
01-18-2010, 06:59 AM
Why stop there...why not rewrite the rest of the story to your own whim(s)?

This is not re-writing the story. I'm not altering it's Prima Materia. I'm just suggesting a new chapter/rectification.
The story is incomplete, because it remains un-developed and un-resolved.
It doesn't converge coherently (infinity in motion), but remains in the pattern of the square root of 2 (looped eternity).

Looped Eternity Vs. Open-Ended and Ever-Expanding Infinity.

:eek: Vs. :cool:

Which one do you prefer?

And no, this is no "whim"... You are merely squashing my motive into a word that is small enough for you to digest. Happens a lot :)

Happy chewing...


[...] will always be reduced into the same three principles, regardless of the starting matters. And then we will unite the three, now blank, and program the new subject with our own intentions, in this way we create new life as God does, as we were meant to do, by being made in his image.

Amen :)

Ghislain
01-18-2010, 10:51 AM
You are merely squashing my motive into a word that is small enough for you to digest.

Piece of PI anyone? :)


Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a dream

But a dream of who's creation?

Ghislain

Andro
01-18-2010, 11:28 AM
But a dream of who's creation?

Who's creation is it then,
Riding on a horse?
In the largest possible sense,
It is yours, of course.

:)

Ghislain
01-18-2010, 09:03 PM
It is yours, of course.

I wonder if that which we call reality is actually
our dream...that is why no individual can change
it.

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
01-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Did anyone else collect GW on the morning of the last full moon?.....it was a very special one, both in that it was a blue moon and also occured on the night of the new year.
It has been my observation over the last year that GW collected on the morning after a full moon exhibits different characteristics from that collected on other mornings, but this last one, as it putrefies is doing something I've never seen before. While it did cloud up, it never began to sediment the white earth at the bottom nor did any oil rise, instead it began forming rather large, hunky crystals at the bottom. And I am treating it just like the rest, leaving it indoors, in the same open jars , in a dark place, in a temperature controlled environment(warm,but not too hot) and I never apply heat directly.

Seth-Ra
01-19-2010, 12:39 AM
Did anyone else collect GW on the morning of the last full moon?.....it was a very special one, both in that it was a blue moon and also occured on the night of the new year.
It has been my observation over the last year that GW collected on the morning after a full moon exhibits different characteristics from that collected on other mornings, but this last one, as it putrefies is doing something I've never seen before. While it did cloud up, it never began to sediment the white earth at the bottom nor did any oil rise, instead it began forming rather large, hunky crystals at the bottom. And I am treating it just like the rest, leaving it indoors, in the same open jars , in a dark place, in a temperature controlled environment and I never apply heat directly.

That sounds interesting, but not to surprising. There are many accounts of changes that occur to the human body during the full moon, from mental effects to physical, and it being a blue moon, i.e. doubling the effect in a single phase of time... it would stand to reason that it acts differently. ;)

Interested to hear how it goes though, with the crystals and all. :)

Andro
01-19-2010, 01:28 PM
I wonder if that which we call reality is actually our dream...

It is.

The differenciation between 'dream' and 'real' exists only in our fragmented minds. Ask any shaman :cool:


That is why no individual can change it.

Regular dreamers usually can't, at least not consciously.
Lucid dreamers can and do.

LeoRetilus
01-19-2010, 08:24 PM
If we take conscious control of our dreams, the dream stops happening to us and we begin to happen to the dream, through our will.

This is what lucid dreaming is about, and why not apply it to your waking life as well. Stop letting life happen to you and take control. God gave you all that you need, no need to search outside of yourself. You already have all the tools, you only need to sharpen them.

We are all part of the same dream construct in waking life, all of our intentions interact with each other and battle each other for precedence on the playing field of life. But sometimes the battle is within ourselves and this is why you must first rid yourself of your internal conflicts before you can effect real change in your waking life. And who decides what path life will steer us in as a whole? Well, he with the strongest will, thats who. But as an individual our dreams can only take us so far, just imagine what we could do together if we all began to dream the same dream. --In rememberance of Dr. Martin Luther King (http://www.juntosociety.com/hist_speeches/mlkihad.html)

solomon levi
01-20-2010, 06:37 PM
I've stated my views several times, but I'll add again -

If "I" take control of my life, that "I" - ego has specific, limited knowledge
from which to draw and construct personal "reality".
In other words, you can only construct what you already know.

So I suggest people utilising that method be certain to leave room for the
unknown in your practice.

A good example - what one knows about alchemy right now - and there is
still more you'd like to know, that is unknown to you...
how will one get this unknown knowledge? There is only so far one can go by
juggling the items of our current knowledge in different sequences and proportions.
Some unknowns are unknown because they require a totally radical approach that
doesn't involve thinking or the controlling entity/"I".

Prayer, surrender, grace, the subconscious, "out of the blue", revealed in a dream ....

One might compare these two approaches to the "wet" and the "dry" paths,
psychologically speaking.


sol

Seth-Ra
01-20-2010, 06:53 PM
Sol', you're reminding me of me playing chess with my cousin and my Dad. I strategize, but I leave plenty of room for developments I cannot see and cannot know of, the "human" element, in a sence. They (Dad & cousin) always plan specifically, and I most always win. Solid flexibility, conscious subconscious-information, balance. :)

Hephælios
01-24-2010, 09:57 PM
The trouble comes from "knowing" something as "fact"...when in reality you are just impressing upon the nature something that is only there in your imagination. It is why I hold steadfast to this quote by Vaughn.


There are many Platonics -- and this last century hath afforded them some apish disciples -- who discourse very boldly of the similitudes of inferiors and superiors; but if we thoroughly search their trash it is a pack of small conspiracies -- namely, of the heliotrope and the sun, iron and the lodestone, the wound and the weapon. It is excellent sport to hear how they crow, being roosted on these pitiful particulars, as if they knew the universal magnet which binds this great frame and moves all the members of it to a mutual compassion. This is an humour much like that of Don Quixote, who knew Dulcinea but never saw her.

Andro
01-24-2010, 10:26 PM
The trouble comes from "knowing" something as "fact"...when in reality you are just impressing upon the nature something that is only there in your imagination.

That's what feedback is for :)

Besides, how would you name a Reality that your Imagination manages to impress upon Nature?

The term 'Fact' comes to mind...


In reality you are just impressing upon the nature something that is only there in your imagination.

Reality... Nature... Imagination...

There are wonderful software applications for de-fragmenting computer hard drives.
But what can be done about the fragmented mind?


"the universal magnet which binds this great frame"

Yes, it's the exact same universal magnet that "binds this great frame" which also holds the key to de-fragmenting our minds and to lifting the veil of separation between reality, nature, imagination and all possible worlds being simultaneously dreamt up between something and nothing :cool:

Since you still view these concepts as separated (not bound together), you demonstrate a lack of intimate aquaintance with this Universal Magnet - which ironically places you in the same league of 'platonics' that Vaughn is talking about :)


It is why I hold steadfast to this quote by Vaughn.

Holding too steadfast may not be in the best interest of progress/advancement...

Seth-Ra
01-24-2010, 10:58 PM
it is as a yin-yang: the order is in the chaos and the chaos is in the order, and all things come from the one through adaption/transmutation, but all of that comes by the underlying Truth, the Reality that is infact there. Not an illusion, but what is real. "Just as all things come from the One Thing, through the meditation of the One Mind, so are all things made..." If the laws thats govern the One Thing, and the art of the One Mind are not "reality", then nothing exists, including us, and so this whole conversation and all works, past present and future, are nothing.

"I Think, therefore I Am." obviously we all are thinking, its how we type here, its what we type, so thus we must be, and if we are real, and obviously we are, then there is a Real Truth and that underlies it all, and THAT is the key to all success, to all Art, and to all Wisdom, Nature, and Application of Knowledge.

Otherwise, all is lost, chaotic, and non-existent, and if you were to change that which isnt real, so what?
:)

~Seth-Ra

Hephælios
01-24-2010, 11:04 PM
Besides, how would you name a Reality that your Imagination manages to impress upon Nature?
So the full moon somehow alters your urine? What reasoning you come to that gives you that notion is beyond me. That is what I was referring to in regard to Leo's post.


The differenciation between 'dream' and 'real' exists only in our fragmented minds.
And this is something you "know" and hold as "fact"?... Please feel free to muddle and alter more things with your speculations that you hold as "facts".

Andro
01-24-2010, 11:24 PM
If the laws thats govern the One Thing, and the art of the One Mind are not "reality", then nothing exists, including us, and so this whole conversation and all works, past present and future, are nothing.

Nothing, indeed. And Something, as well :)

Just as there are 'laws' that govern the One Thing, there are 'laws' that govern the No Thing.

Just as there is the art of the One Mind, there is also the art of the No Mind.


Otherwise, all is lost, chaotic, and non-existent, and if you were to change that which isnt real, so what?

Creation is an infinite dance between Something and Nothing. Trying too hard to pin it down to one extreme or another may have unpleasant effects on one's spiritual sanity :)

LeoRetilus
01-24-2010, 11:34 PM
I would like to demonstrate some examples on how imagination does in fact impress upon reality. Before I begin I will state that with much assertion that underlying alchemical force that enables such action is the role of the philosophical mercury.

First let me draw your attention to the movie/documentary "What the Bleep Down the Rabbit Hole" , I know the work of Dr. Emoto has been discussed on this forum in the past and has resurfaced recently in the First Snow thread started by True Puffer. If mercury is the information/identity or communication of matter then it isn't a far stretch to conceive how thoughts can in fact impress upon the nature of matter. And how thought can influence the growth of ice crystals. (http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm)

In addition, in studying quantum mechanics and quantum phenomenon one can see that at a certain level the laws that govern larger matter on a macro level which are Newton Laws and even General Relativity do not in fact hold sway over subatomic physics on the micro level. This is why the two fields remain unreconciled to this day(General Relativity&Quantum Mechanics). This was an arguement that went back and forth between Einstein and Niels Bohr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates) for quite some time because Einstein could not come to grips with the fact that "God does in fact play dice with the universe" And so Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle) remains in tact until this day. This is why a physicist can never really observe matter at this level wholly objectionably because the simple act of observation influences the results.

Hence this is why the cold fusion work of Pons and Fleishman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion) could not be duplicated at every university, simply because those with already preconceived ideals about matter did not have the power to influence upon nature with their thoughts on the quantum level.

Alchemists are truly wisemen and this is why they stress the importance of a good beginning theurgy before you go onto your work with matter (lab alchemy).;)

Andro
01-24-2010, 11:40 PM
So the full moon somehow alters your urine? What reasoning you come to that gives you that notion is beyond me.

Appearently it is, indeed, beyond you :)


And this is something you "know" and hold as "fact"?

Yes.


Please feel free to muddle and alter more things with your speculations that you hold as "facts".

Oh, I feel very free...

One's fact is another's speculation. One's sense is another's nonsense... The wonders of diversity - but still with plenty of common ground left to dream together ! ! !
Can you see the beauty of it? And how agonizingly boring it would be otherwise?

Besides, isn't 'muddling (http://cocktails.about.com/od/cocktailspeak/g/muddle_spk.htm)' and 'altering' what Alchemy/Art is all about?

Why are you here? And where are you going?

Sweet Dreams :p

horticult
01-24-2010, 11:46 PM
"The horror! The horror!"

Seth-Ra
01-24-2010, 11:50 PM
Androgynus i think you misunderstand what i mean by chaos. What you are calling the No Think and the No Mind, are all that of chaos = destructive to order, like fire, yet endless/boundless, the infinite possibilities, like a blank canvas. In order to manifest the possibilities one desire though, one must "draw" with the proper tools, and the proper shapes. You can, even with that, create "abstract"/"chaotic" order, but if one wants gold, one must draw gold. If one drew lead, but want to change it to gold, then one must harness both the chaos (blankness resulting in possibilities) and order to fix the possibility youre after.

Since our universe is already made, we have to use the chaos and the order to adapt and change what we will, but even that is governed by the law. Art can be done in many ways, but all ways are done by Law of Chaos and Order, Adaption to form Creation, otherwise, its not there, never happened, and is not.
:)

~Seth-Ra

Andro
01-25-2010, 12:03 AM
I can't say that I disagree with you. Me may have different concepts of 'law' and I would also re-phrase "the universe is already made" into "the universe is already in the making" - but altogether I feel there is more common ground than difference between our perceptions :)

Now I suggest we stop before Mr. Horticult becomes an innocent victim of this horrifying discussion :D


Androgynus i think you misunderstand what i mean by chaos. What you are calling the No Think and the No Mind, are all that of chaos = destructive to order, like fire, yet endless/boundless, the infinite possibilities, like a blank canvas. In order to manifest the possibilities one desire though, one must "draw" with the proper tools, and the proper shapes. You can, even with that, create "abstract"/"chaotic" order, but if one wants gold, one must draw gold. If one drew lead, but want to change it to gold, then one must harness both the chaos (blankness resulting in possibilities) and order to fix the possibility youre after.

Since our universe is already made, we have to use the chaos and the order to adapt and change what we will, but even that is governed by the law. Art can be done in many ways, but all ways are done by Law of Chaos and Order, Adaption to form Creation, otherwise, its not there, never happened, and is not.

Hephælios
01-25-2010, 01:39 AM
Is it possible for you to stick to your original posts instead of dramatically editing and adding to it after the fact?

Seth-Ra
01-25-2010, 01:42 AM
Is it possible for you to stick to your original posts instead of dramatically editing and adding to it after the fact?

I too have noticed this by several, and it does make it hard to reply to something that keeps changing... ;)

Hephælios
01-25-2010, 01:47 AM
Reminds me of the latent insult...that real zinger you should've said.

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 01:50 AM
:eek: I just noticed the link I provided to Dr. Emoto's work was I bid to try and sell some crap book or something, please don't buy it , there are many places you can go on the web to read about his work for free.

But that page does provide some solid info on his work

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 03:09 AM
Would it also be possible to stop this incessant bickering and nit picking of each other's post? :mad:

Why not just take or leave what we care to, and thank each other for sharing? :)

I think we will all find this will make for a more productive environment unless of course you are here to distract. :(

As for my prior post concerning ph. mercury, and water and the impression of thoughts upon thereof (think dew) and quantum physics/uncertainty , ....What do you think about all of this Hephælios?

And by the way how do you spell that with a keyboard, the a and e joined like that?

Hephælios
01-25-2010, 04:57 AM
Well it is a bit hard to respond when the posts change.
You can spell the letter æ (æsc or "ash tree") by typing 0230 while holding the Alt button. I'll answer your other question when I have more time.

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 06:44 AM
While your doing that, here is some more to consider. I wasn't going to make this public knowledge, but what the hay, maybe I'll have my nation of high priests after all.
This originated as a background conversation to give a few people on here maybe a different or more modern angle to consider some of the alchemical processes that we have been reading about lately. And maybe this will lead to more work with dew and more specifically extracting the mercury principal from where it originates, the air or in my opinion, the aether(vacuum).

A few years ago I built a magnetic levitation trap like the one you can build by going here : sink trap (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/sinktrap.htm).The theory behind the operation of a magnetic trap is that the mercury principal which current (non-alchemy practicing) experimenters call ormus, has been found to be highly responsive to magnetic fields. It likes to hang out in tight spaces, and null magnetic fields and flys away from strong magnetic fields or sunlight and sometimes explodes in sunlight. This is where the work with magnetite in soil with concern to growing plants comes in which you can view here: Magnetite Plants (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/magnetite.htm) As well as healing and the veritable turning back the hands of time , you can see an example here: Magnetite Water (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/magneticwater.htm) The insight here is that since ormus, or our mercury responds to magnetic fields by moving away from them, then by providing the opposite, a null magnetic field, which magnetite does by absorbing ambient fields, will attract the ormus out of the air. Ormus, not to be confused with ormes which are the precipitate family. And speaking of that, frankly I'd like to clear something up. I have in my posession several dvds of David Hudson's lectures, and in none of them does he ever state that ormes are the Philosophers Stone. In my opinion they are the Philosophical Salt and so is any precipitate you obtain from the ocean or from sea salt for that matter. The reason I say that is because I have personally duplicated the work of Don Nance that I presented in the Seed of Gold Thread, and have been able to obtain precious metals from seawater after precipitation and treatment, with vulgar sulfur and UV light/sunlight. Anyhow, after I built the levitation trap I put it to work extracting a faction of water from the natural springs that originate on the island where I live on here in Alaska. When I began to concentrate this "good" water , crystals began to appear suspended in solution. These crystals when viewed under a microscope resemble tartaric acid crystals obtained from concord grape juice. Shortly after, I came upon this website: Gas Ormus (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/gasormus.htm)(you'd be doing your self a great service by reading this entire page and following all the links) Especially this one: Air Trap (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/airtrap.htm)
(It is my assertion,... I've said it before and I'll say it again that the alkahest dissolves metallic gold because of the Philosophical Mercury contained therein , in that it dissolves the gold by virtue of its magnetic qualities) And this one: Ether Method (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/ether.htm). The idea is that since we know that our mercury principal can be collected with alcohol spirits sometimes from our prima materia, that by running air or water through a magnetic field, the ormus or mercury will turn around and flow through the negative pressure vortex and travel against the flow of the water, and collect in our di-ethyl ether, and people I have done this, it works!
Much later I came upon this website and really got into classical alchemy for the first time, where I found the final piece of the puzzle, which I came to know as the Philosophical Sulfur. Then it took some time before I was able to become conversant in the vocabulary where I could link this newer technology with the old. And boy when I did , man did it really begin to come together. The point is that these substances are the same, they haven't changed their nature since the beginning of time, the only thing that has changed is humans, they come and go, and call things by different names. But in my experience if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then most likely its a duck.
As a scientist my primary objective is to identify my variables and my elements(controls) and really get to know them intimately by exploring every facet of their nature both by experimentation and research, before I can accurately perform permutations with my elements and apply the scientific method. I enter every experiment with an open mind, knowing for a fact that science does not hold all the answers , but by studying nature in my own ways(through experimentation and intuition) she teaches me the most important lessons, and be very aware that there may be more variables at work in these processes than what you may consider from inception, and when dealing with the mercury principal especially as I tried to convey in that Snowflake/Emoto/Uncertainty post, attitude may be the most important, .....pray over your work it helps. .
So I have had great success in collecting this material and combining it with the incombustible, heat treated sea water precipitate, and now the sulfur principal from my urine to create a transmuting stone, is it the long storied and sought after Philosopher's Stone?......Well I'll be drinking to my wealth, health and happiness while you guys can feel free to argue about it, just leave me out of such discussions.

May the greatest light of insight and knowledge shine upon you while you consider what I've said.

Ghislain
01-25-2010, 09:30 AM
Another thing to consider here people
is that of the originating post subject.

If people post everything in one thread
the subject material quickly becomes lost.

I am guessing that three or four threads
could be extracted from this one; probably
more.

Just a thought.

Ghislain

Edit ;)

Just to play devils advocate once more:

Wonky Water (http://www.chem1.com/CQ/wonkywater.html)

Andro
01-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Dear Leo,

As you already know, I completely resonate with the concepts you've presented above. I'm actually quite surprised you've decided to make this information public, but then again these things have a tendency to remain guarded in their applications even when publicly revealed to the extensive degree that you have.

It's probably a mistake on my part to 'argue' my points and views. Those who resonate will resonate, and those who don't will either distract or make it about something else, or even feel insulted. It is not my purpose to insult anyone, but it's everyone's right to go ahead and feel insulted if they so wish :)

This thread has a life of its own and much has been revealed here, in and between the lines. I personally find the prayer/intention/lucid dreaming factor to be of utmost importance in manipulating matters of such subtlety - just as I find a closed heart and a looped mind to be a major impediment in The Work. And I'm talking from past personal experience...


You better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'

At the end of the day, all disputes and hornlocking aside, it all comes down to the simple fact that some will 'get it' and some won't.
I share your hope that there will be more of the former... And the proof of that shall be in the pudding :)

As for the concepts you have revealed here, Leo - I find them to be flawless. My own approach is much more Lo-Tech than yours and takes more time, and also differs in that I prefer to extract my principles from one single source, and do so with the least possible intervention. But this doesn't negate the fact that what you've revealed above is the source code for Our Work.

So I am publicly thanking you not only for your revelations, but also for the major validation your input has provided for my own work.

Now I'll go check to see how my pudding is coming along ;)

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 10:44 AM
To Ghislain

Splitting material up between post/threads also contributes to the overall loss of coherence of how all things are related and thus my message is also lost. It needs to all be in the same place so people can make the connections.

In playing devils advocate maybe, "it would be wise to not believe but also un-wise to dis-believe."

By all means don't believe me, verify it yourself and then come back and discuss it with me after you have some basis of your own. Just because it doesn't conform to modern scientific dogma doesn't make it pseudo-science, if there's even an ounce in you that believes it is, then why are you here?
Isn't the Philosopher's Stone and alchemy in general pseudo-science, didn't we figure out that low energy transmutations were not possible along time ago, and that lead to gold was just a metaphor, aren't we past all this? After all we have chemistry and it explains everything right? Or maybe just everything that we are comfortable in knowing. After all there is no such thing as ghosts and re-incarnation either and when you die you just die, nothing else happens. This is good view to have when humans have been equated to so many head of cattle who's primary purpose is to work a nine to five job until the day they die, to be the "backbone" and keep the economy going so the guys with the secrets and the power get to keep em. The system we live in today isn't much different from the feudal system of old, there still isn't much room for mobility, there is an elite club and they don't like newcomers, we still have a system of lords and vassals. You are only given the illusion that you can rise up and make a difference.

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 10:53 AM
..... I personally find the prayer/intention/lucid dreaming factor to be of utmost importance in manipulating matters of such subtlety - just as I find a closed heart and a looped mind to be a major impediment in The Work. And I'm talking from past personal experience...



Absolutely, I have found the same thing through personal experience




So I am publicly thanking you not only for your revelations, but also for the major validation your input has provided for my own work.


Thanks, and your work with acorns along with others has unlocked many keys for me as well ;)

LeoRetilus
01-25-2010, 11:07 AM
Dear Leo,

As you already know, I completely resonate with the concepts you've presented above. I'm actually quite surprised you've decided to make this information public, but then again these things have a tendency to remain guarded in their applications even when publicly revealed to the extensive degree that you have.



I'm just posting this for posterity, but as you know the PM is a woman, she's a great lady and she's quite intuitive(residing from the moon) and very particular about who she becomes intimate with, she will flee from the flasks of all others,..... this is how alchemy is protected. Without her they have nothing ;)

Andro
01-25-2010, 11:44 AM
This may fit just as well into the 'Love' thread... But I find it better suited here...

When properly nourished, love is what facilitates deep unions between people and principles alike.

Alchemically speaking, I think we're finding out that the saying "Love is in the Air" can be interpreted quite literally :)

solomon levi
01-26-2010, 01:21 AM
Another thing to consider here people
is that of the originating post subject.

If people post everything in one thread
the subject material quickly becomes lost.

I am guessing that three or four threads
could be extracted from this one; probably
more.

Just a thought.

Ghislain

Edit ;)

Just to play devils advocate once more:

Wonky Water (http://www.chem1.com/CQ/wonkywater.html)


Yes. I don't know what to do with this thread, it's so diffused - why bother trying
to organise it.
You guys can help me out by remaining organised yourselves. There's so much
non-practical/lab alchemy in this thread. Maybe I'll try to separate it. But until
my laptop gets fixed, I don't have a lot of time.

sol

solomon levi
01-26-2010, 01:34 AM
I'm glad you made that material more public Leo.

I had my first bottle of 3-4 day magnetite water today and it was amazing!
I felt it alot in my temples, and then in places that could use some healing -
eyes and teeth. I was really surprised. I have to get more magnetite so I can
have this more often.
I can buy magnetite at my local clay art center.

For the record, my water was stirred with a "gourmet" stir-wand before I placed
it in the magnetite. It may make a difference.

http://www.stirwandsdirect.com/

Ghislain
01-26-2010, 01:39 AM
Splitting material up between post/threads also contributes to the overall loss of coherence of how all things are related and thus my message is also lost. It needs to all be in the same place so people can make the connections.

I personally disagree with what you say there L.R. as people can link together what they will...it is their choice, but as far as a forum goes surely it is best served to have some order?


In playing devils advocate maybe, "it would be wise to not believe but also un-wise to dis-believe."

I think it is always healthy to look at a subject from more than one angle,
then make an informed decision. When people reject an opposing opinion without any consideration I have to wonder why.


By all means don't believe me,

?


verify it yourself and then come back and discuss it with me after you have some basis of your own.

I found your post most interesting...I have even posted some notes on the mystery of the properties of water (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=797) (post 5) and how much is not known. I will try...
dexterity permitting...to recreate the apparatus described.


Just because it doesn't conform to modern scientific dogma doesn't make it pseudo-science, if there's even an ounce in you that believes it is, then why are you here?

Einstein did more to further the studies of quantum physics due to his disagreements with quantum physicists of the time than he did to validate
his position...this was not a bad thing...questions keep the momentum going.

Who could have opposition to questions...

Why am I here...I have so many unanswered questions.

Ghislain

Seth-Ra
01-26-2010, 01:44 AM
I kinda agree with Leo on this: the thread is about success, so in that, how can it be limited to 1 thing or another? All of it is about 1 subject, yet there are many "sub-subjects" that contribute to the whole of the successful subject, essentially.

If it were me, id leave it as "one of them threads... :rolleyes: " and "let it be". :)

(to clarify: the " :rolleyes: " shown above was in such a way as to denote the "mass" in the thread, and in no way was meant derogatorily. :) )

Funny thing is, in the time its taken me to type this, there have been 2 more posts... my comment to all is: Thanks for all the reading material, kept me busy lately, and i hate being bored. :D

~Seth-Ra

Ajnavajra
01-26-2010, 04:24 PM
I'm just posting this for posterity, but as you know the PM is a woman, she's a great lady and she's quite intuitive(residing from the moon) and very particular about who she becomes intimate with, she will flee from the flasks of all others,..... this is how alchemy is protected. Without her they have nothing ;)

Some years ago I became aware of a strong feminine "spirit" overseeing my crawling progress. She has drawn increasingly closer as I let go my pre-conceptions. It became clear that "philoopsher" does not mean "lover of wisdom" but "lover of Sophia," the great "Archon" whose spiritual body is our Mater Matter Prima Materia We are the children who sit on her lap but She is behind us as Madonna, Isis, and we to carry Her work forward.

Black Isis is that dark background of space which is our sea, its overlooked vastness greater than all the stars that float childlike in Her arms. Her milk is a latte with quantum foam! ;)

Hephælios
01-27-2010, 02:30 AM
My reply is here (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=1274) so as not to upset Solomon.

LeoRetilus
01-28-2010, 09:10 PM
Here are some pictures of my GW as it putrifys in my magnetite sand baths:
(After a few weeks it looks very firey and does not smell bad anymore
The sulfur principal is highly visible)

http://xs.to/image-523B_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-7654_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-BC56_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-8DF0_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-A297_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-B2BA_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-1B87_4B62072F.jpg
The White Stone:

http://xs.to/image-C0F1_4B62072F.jpg

The Red Stone:
( As you can see my mercury principal is still somewhat flighty, and part of her has crystallized above the stone and the magnetical energies of the magnetite have caused her to organized herself inwards like the dragons teeth, at this point my stone has lost its color of its purple sulfur of gold and has attained the fiery color of the gw's sulfur.)
At this point there still emanates a very venomous spirit from the glass when it is opened, and as well my stone does flow like wax when heated but still with fumes, this indicates to me that its mercury is still not quite fixed and thus is not protected from the fire. But my stone does re-vitrify upon cooling and does have the power of transmutation but I will further fix and multiply.
http://xs.to/image-5FF4_4B62072F.jpg

http://xs.to/image-73D5_4B62072F.jpg

gedfire
04-16-2016, 10:20 PM
Hello All,

I would like some help in reconstructing Leoretilus Method of Creating the Stone.He mentioned in the thread success little or no putrefaction, orgone storing ,ormus,GW etc.I would like a step by step approach.I am hoping that someone can help to fully understand the method by which he created the Stone (or his version thereof)

Thanks

ghetto alchemist
04-17-2016, 01:04 PM
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but LeoRetilus never made any gold from lead as he reported in his success thread.

He only made lead oxide, and he mistook a yellow substance for being gold.
He's not the first, other would be alchemists have also made the same mistake.

Unfortunately he lacked the strength of character to admit that he made a mistake, and never put up a statement to retract his original claim, even after he came to know the truth himself.

Link to LeoRetilus' "Success" thread HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1133-Success).

gedfire
04-17-2016, 05:03 PM
Thank you for you kind response.I have reread the thread.I agree he made lead oxide.I have done that too looks nice and golden. But I did that by bubbling vapour under molten lead.Dangerous stuff with all that vapour.Think I got sick too at the time.Anyway, I wanted to reexamine his method of creating the powder.It is struvite by the way.I have also seen the urine Ormus thread.

I have tested urine after its just released and its indeed acidic.After 2 weeks fermentation its alkaline, enough to precipitate phophorous etc.

I am working on ways to enhance the process.So I was thinking he added seawater precipitate (heat treated then placed them in orgone accumulators.

Just for posterity I wanted his full method, whether useless or not. I am not interested in making gold via the philosopher's stone.I am STRONGLY interested in its reported health benefits however.Cheaper than medication.

If you could help with the reconstruction of Leo's Method it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Andro
04-17-2016, 05:21 PM
Hi gedfire,

I see that his old site is no longer online (http://www.houseleoretilus.org/), but you can search YouTube/Google/etc for his name (https://www.google.com/search?q=leo+retilus), to find ways to contact him directly, if so inclined. He's also on FB under his real name, so I've been told.

There may be some forum members here who could still be in touch with him through other channels, but it's up to them whether they wish to contact you on this matter or not (if they see this thread).


---------------------------------------------------------

ghetto alchemist
04-17-2016, 10:10 PM
Gedfire asked:
If you could help with the reconstruction of Leo's Method it would be greatly appreciated.

I made an attempt to reconstruct his method 5 or so years ago.
Just checked my notes and this is what I had written down from back then:

Sea salt extraction
sea salt -> white powder precipitate -> annealed by heating
(unsure if Mg hydroxide is removed, assuming that it was not since he never mentioned it)

Urine extraction
1 collect urine
2 charge it up with tesla hairpin circuit
3 add ether and let sit for a couple of days
4 extract ether and evaporate off leaving ormus oil
5 split oil into 2 parts -> 1 part in direct sunshine until red -> 1 part in moonlight until white
6 combine the red and white together with the white powder from sea salt...
maybe let sit for a while in a gentle heat in the dark.


He was definately using that tesla hairpin circuit pretty heavily at the time he believed he made
the philosophers stone. He was also spruiking sea salt precipitate and urine back then too.
At that time, I deduced that all 3 were linked, but they might have been completely separate projects for him.

Just for the record.... I don't believe the above process is the way to make the philosophers stone.

gedfire
04-21-2016, 03:52 AM
Hi gedfire,

I see that his old site is no longer online (http://www.houseleoretilus.org/), but you can search YouTube/Google/etc for his name (https://www.google.com/search?q=leo+retilus), to find ways to contact him directly, if so inclined. He's also on FB under his real name, so I've been told.

There may be some forum members here who could still be in touch with him through other channels, but it's up to them whether they wish to contact you on this matter or not (if they see this thread).


---------------------------------------------------------

Thank you very much for the lead.Appreciated.

gedfire
04-21-2016, 03:54 AM
I made an attempt to reconstruct his method 5 or so years ago.
Just checked my notes and this is what I had written down from back then:

Sea salt extraction
sea salt -> white powder precipitate -> annealed by heating
(unsure if Mg hydroxide is removed, assuming that it was not since he never mentioned it)

Urine extraction
1 collect urine
2 charge it up with tesla hairpin circuit
3 add ether and let sit for a couple of days
4 extract ether and evaporate off leaving ormus oil
5 split oil into 2 parts -> 1 part in direct sunshine until red -> 1 part in moonlight until white
6 combine the red and white together with the white powder from sea salt...
maybe let sit for a while in a gentle heat in the dark.


He was definately using that tesla hairpin circuit pretty heavily at the time he believed he made
the philosophers stone. He was also spruiking sea salt precipitate and urine back then too.
At that time, I deduced that all 3 were linked, but they might have been completely separate projects for him.

Just for the record.... I don't believe the above process is the way to make the philosophers stone.

Got it.Thanks Ghetto Chemist.What is the method you use?

Thanks .

ghetto alchemist
04-22-2016, 01:57 AM
Gedfire asked:
What is the method you use?

Fair enough question.
Obviously I never made the philosophers stone, I only have an idea.
So...If already have philosophers mercury, then I think part of that theoretical Retilus process is correct. I would tweak it just a little bit like so:

1/ get philosophers mercury
2/ split into 3 parts: -> 1 part in sunlight until red -> 1 part in moonlight until white -> 1 part heat until powder
3/ recombine red liquid, white liquid and powder
4/ sit in the dark and gently heat

This should make a medicine for ingestion, if wanting a projection stone, add 1 more step
5/ add powdered quartz (and maybe more philisophical mercury) -> heat until red liquid ingress into quartz

That said, I have never seen philosophical mercury, and I seriously doubt that either myself (or the rest of us) will ever see it in our lifetimes.

Also, I don't think philosophical mercury can be acquired from either sea salt or urine.
I reckon it is extracted from a calcium carbonate source (Eg limestone), using acid and ether.
But I'm not really sure how to do this. Also note that LeoRetilus himself changed his thinking to later say that limestone is the source of Spiritus Mundi. Much as I hate to admit it, I'll concede that Retilus does know a lot about alchemy, and he probably possesses most of the keys required. But I still don't think he ever succeeded as he claimed.

It was Retilus who gave me the key about spiritus mundi in sunlight turns red, and in moonlight turns white. So even though I don't think very much of him as a person, for his gift I am eternally grateful.

gedfire
05-04-2016, 03:33 AM
Fair enough question.
Obviously I never made the philosophers stone, I only have an idea.
So...If already have philosophers mercury, then I think part of that theoretical Retilus process is correct. I would tweak it just a little bit like so:

1/ get philosophers mercury
2/ split into 3 parts: -> 1 part in sunlight until red -> 1 part in moonlight until white -> 1 part heat until powder
3/ recombine red liquid, white liquid and powder
4/ sit in the dark and gently heat

This should make a medicine for ingestion, if wanting a projection stone, add 1 more step
5/ add powdered quartz (and maybe more philisophical mercury) -> heat until red liquid ingress into quartz

That said, I have never seen philosophical mercury, and I seriously doubt that either myself (or the rest of us) will ever see it in our lifetimes.

Also, I don't think philosophical mercury can be acquired from either sea salt or urine.
I reckon it is extracted from a calcium carbonate source (Eg limestone), using acid and ether.
But I'm not really sure how to do this. Also note that LeoRetilus himself changed his thinking to later say that limestone is the source of Spiritus Mundi. Much as I hate to admit it, I'll concede that Retilus does know a lot about alchemy, and he probably possesses most of the keys required. But I still don't think he ever succeeded as he claimed.

It was Retilus who gave me the key about spiritus mundi in sunlight turns red, and in moonlight turns white. So even though I don't think very much of him as a person, for his gift I am eternally grateful.

Sounds good.I have 99% pure limestone in my backyard. I also have calcite.I added HCL to it and got golden water.So Spiritus is present? Remember that Ca = Si+C .Ca can transmute to Si and C or vice versa.So we are stuck with Si aka quartz.

ghetto alchemist
05-04-2016, 11:13 AM
wonderbar...how exciting.

Your limestone should be good to work with....you no doubt also know calcite is the very pure crystals of calcium carbonate...so effectively same thing. If your calcite is a mineral source, should also be good to work on.


Gedfire: I added HCL to it and got golden water.So Spiritus is present?
Absolutely the spiritus should be in there.


Gedfire: Remember that Ca = Si+C .Ca can transmute to Si and C or vice versa.So we are stuck with Si aka quartz.

I was stunned to find you're absolutely right...theoretically Ca could be split to Si and C, even the neutrons balance out. But I reckon the calcium carbonate is somehow holding onto that spiritus substance...all you gotta do is separate the two. That's already tough enough....dont make it harder still.

so...options to separate the spiritus from your yellow solution....

Option 1:
John Hudson process says that if you add sulfuric acid to your yellow solution and heat it...you'll get a white precipitate...this white precipitate probably takes the spiritus with it because hudson describes the characteristic smell of spiritus from heating the white powder in an oven. But you'll then have to separate the spiritus from the white powder (which is chemically calcium sulfate). You could add pure alcohol to the white powder which should pick up the spiritus but leave the powder behind...but then you have to separate the spiritus from alcohol....got any ideas...??

Option 2:
Boil your yellow solution to a white powder (it will then chemically be calcium chloride).
You cant add alcohol to this powder because the both the powder and spiritus will dissolve.
Instead you could add dietyl ether, that should collect the spiritus but leave the powder behind.
This time you have to separate the spiritus from diethyl ether....got any ideas??

Either way you'll have to separate the spiritus from a solvent.....that requires at least one key.
This is the bit where I'm in the dark.

Do you simply pull a vacuum on the solvent and slightly heat it to boiling point, and solvent evaporates leaving behind spiritus? Ormus researchers seem to indicate this.
Do you pull a vacuum and use a torsion field to distill off the spiritus and leave solvent behind? Alchemy texts seem to indicate this. (Torsion field in this instance can be made from a spinning magnet.)
Do you do something else altogether different?
Eg simply burn the solvent leaving spiritus behind? (I doubt it, but who knows)

I recommend option 2, because if you have sulfuric acid and pure alcohol you can make diethyl ether using only those two chemicals anyway, so may as well do that. But how ironic that those substances....ether...sulfuric acid...absolute alcohol ....are all forbidden for purchase by common people in nanny state like Australia. Which means we have to create them ourselves, exactly like Paracelsus and Lullius did 500+ years ago, but for completely different reasons. Incredible.

Andro
05-04-2016, 12:05 PM
But how ironic that those substances....ether...sulfuric acid...absolute alcohol ....are all forbidden for purchase by common people in nanny state like Australia.

You can register a company in Oz, register with the police so they are 'officially informed' that you're not making 'drugs', and you're good to go and get all the aforementioned substances.

Make sure you get a HazMat sign for your lab :)

gedfire
05-23-2016, 04:50 AM
wonderbar...how exciting.

Your limestone should be good to work with....you no doubt also know calcite is the very pure crystals of calcium carbonate...so effectively same thing. If your calcite is a mineral source, should also be good to work on.


Absolutely the spiritus should be in there.



I was stunned to find you're absolutely right...theoretically Ca could be split to Si and C, even the neutrons balance out. But I reckon the calcium carbonate is somehow holding onto that spiritus substance...all you gotta do is separate the two. That's already tough enough....dont make it harder still.

so...options to separate the spiritus from your yellow solution....

Option 1:
John Hudson process says that if you add sulfuric acid to your yellow solution and heat it...you'll get a white precipitate...this white precipitate probably takes the spiritus with it because hudson describes the characteristic smell of spiritus from heating the white powder in an oven. But you'll then have to separate the spiritus from the white powder (which is chemically calcium sulfate). You could add pure alcohol to the white powder which should pick up the spiritus but leave the powder behind...but then you have to separate the spiritus from alcohol....got any ideas...??

Option 2:
Boil your yellow solution to a white powder (it will then chemically be calcium chloride).
You cant add alcohol to this powder because the both the powder and spiritus will dissolve.
Instead you could add dietyl ether, that should collect the spiritus but leave the powder behind.
This time you have to separate the spiritus from diethyl ether....got any ideas??

Either way you'll have to separate the spiritus from a solvent.....that requires at least one key.
This is the bit where I'm in the dark.

Do you simply pull a vacuum on the solvent and slightly heat it to boiling point, and solvent evaporates leaving behind spiritus? Ormus researchers seem to indicate this.
Do you pull a vacuum and use a torsion field to distill off the spiritus and leave solvent behind? Alchemy texts seem to indicate this. (Torsion field in this instance can be made from a spinning magnet.)
Do you do something else altogether different?
Eg simply burn the solvent leaving spiritus behind? (I doubt it, but who knows)

I recommend option 2, because if you have sulfuric acid and pure alcohol you can make diethyl ether using only those two chemicals anyway, so may as well do that. But how ironic that those substances....ether...sulfuric acid...absolute alcohol ....are all forbidden for purchase by common people in nanny state like Australia. Which means we have to create them ourselves, exactly like Paracelsus and Lullius did 500+ years ago, but for completely different reasons. Incredible.

Thank you very much for replying.Very exciting indeed! The calcite is a huge chunk,the size of roughly two footballs.So its heavy.I broke of bits and pieces for experimentation.Before this, 5 days ago, I added baking soda to what I think is Calcium Chloride plus "new" water,carbon dioxide and possibly some left over acid.

Lots of fizzing and an increase in volume as new water and carbon dioxide is formed again.(I did a simple flame test).Lo and behold,I did see a white precipitate at the bottle after the fizzing stopped.I used dissolved baking soda that was filtered.I then added vinegar.More fizzing and some precipitate.Crazy!

Now I had planned to add sulphuric acid, but remembered that I could just add the chunks of calcite to the sulphuric acid and get calcium sulphate ,new water and carbon dioxide.That's next.That new water thing came from George Wiseman.Maybe if I seed the mix I could get a metal I desire...Not so easy eh?

Cheers!

elixirmixer
06-08-2016, 11:19 AM
You can register a company in Oz, register with the police so they are 'officially informed' that you're not making 'drugs', and you're good to go and get all the aforementioned substances.

Make sure you get a HazMat sign for your lab :)

You also need to apply for a 'permit to purchase confessional spirits'if you want to buy the cheap absolute alcohol. This involves declaring each month how much you buy, even if you don't buy any, and fines can apply to people who don't declare. (more Aussie government BS)

This 'red in the sun' 'white in the moon' thing is very interesting. Has anyone experienced this themselves?

elixirmixer
06-08-2016, 03:23 PM
This has been an epic thread.

I just want to thank all of you here. I must say, I've flicked through these thread's here and there before but never really sunk my teeth into them until I became a member a couple weeks ago... but I have learnt more about alchemy, both spiritual and practical, in the last two weeks, then over a decade of personal study.

I feel impressed to go on my own big spiritual rant right now but I think enough has been said. If it's not too personal, may I ask why or how someone who so openly contributed to the work got banned? An unrelated matter perhaps?

Have to read this one again I think. I wish I could just pick Andro's brain and be done with it, but I expect that the Stone can truly only be earnt for ones self.

In saying that I've never been more confused about alchemy in my life. But at least now I know what I don't know. Thank you all, even the feather rustlers. Chaos has it's place in matter.

Andro
06-08-2016, 05:05 PM
Everyone, please try to stay on topic (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3013-Off-Topic&p=26305#post26305) and post non-topic-related comments elsewhere, where more on-topic/appropriate - or start a new thread.

This is slowly becoming a chat-room type exchange platform, making specific subjects increasingly difficult to search & locate.

Think about the other readers! And pay attention to spelling, grammar & syntax (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4670-Typos-amp-Grammos&p=42085#post42085), for Elias Artista's sake ! :)


If it's not too personal, may I ask why or how someone who so openly contributed to the work got banned? An unrelated matter perhaps?

See: Re: Banned Members (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3570-Re-Banned-members)

In a day or two I'll edit out your ban-related question and my reply to it, as the 'banning' topic is not up for discussion on the public forum for the reasons mentioned in the link above.


I wish I could just pick Andro's brain and be done with it.

No need to 'pick my brain', because:

1. What I have to say I already share openly on the forum (or occasionally in private communications with Alchemist colleagues and friends of many years, whom - in most cases - I have also met in person and there is tremendous mutual trust).

2. The stuff you're after is not located in the brain :)


This has been an epic thread.

I just want to thank all of you here. I must say, I've flicked through these thread's here and there before but never really sunk my teeth into them until I became a member a couple weeks ago... but I have learnt more about alchemy, both spiritual and practical, in the last two weeks, then over a decade of personal study.

I feel impressed to go on my own big spiritual rant right now but I think enough has been said. If it's not too personal, may I ask why or how someone who so openly contributed to the work got banned? An unrelated matter perhaps?

Have to read this one again I think. I wish I could just pick Andro's brain and be done with it, but I expect that the Stone can truly only be earnt for ones self.

In saying that I've never been more confused about alchemy in my life. But at least now I know what I don't know. Thank you all, even the feather rustlers. Chaos has it's place in matter.

elixirmixer
06-09-2016, 08:04 AM
So I'm just trying to learn more about this process. I thought this was a kind of.. one substance one flask kind of set up, but you have added ether. Is that what you need to get the separation of the water's from the oil?

I very philosophically pee'd in a porcelain milk jug. Left it cold for 6 hours and expected to see some kind of separation?

Please help me on one other thing because I'm stupid. What is everyone referring to when they say GW?

True Initiate
06-10-2016, 12:37 AM
GW stands for Golden Water which means urine.

elixirmixer
06-10-2016, 03:34 AM
Thank you. Makes sense, I thought it might have been someone's initials.

So I did get a separation after 24 hrs. Isolated a pink powder with some tiny red/orange crystals.

I don't want to ask too many questions because I don't expect to be spoon fed. (starting to grasp how this forum works) but can we please just talk about potential dangers?

At what stage will this substance become explosive? And how might one work with it safely? (or learn to work with it safely.)

True Initiate
06-10-2016, 05:36 AM
(starting to grasp how this forum works)

This was funny!

elixirmixer
06-10-2016, 10:57 PM
Thank you very much for replying.Very exciting indeed! The calcite is a huge chunk,the size of roughly two footballs.So its heavy.I broke of bits and pieces for experimentation.Before this, 5 days ago, I added baking soda to what I think is Calcium Chloride plus "new" water,carbon dioxide and possibly some left over acid.

Lots of fizzing and an increase in volume as new water and carbon dioxide is formed again.(I did a simple flame test).Lo and behold,I did see a white precipitate at the bottle after the fizzing stopped.I used dissolved baking soda that was filtered.I then added vinegar.More fizzing and some precipitate.Crazy!

Now I had planned to add sulphuric acid, but remembered that I could just add the chunks of calcite to the sulphuric acid and get calcium sulphate ,new water and carbon dioxide.That's next.That new water thing came from George Wiseman.Maybe if I seed the mix I could get a metal I desire...Not so easy eh?

Cheers!

What is the goal here exactly? You've got yourself quite a little mixture going on now. What are you trying to make? I certainly don't think LR was using bicarbonate and vinegar. That would create sodium acetate, and here we're stepping right away from the stone and oil of gold... so far it looks like you've got a salt and vinegar flavoured calcium supplement.

Was that the goal?

Also... sea salt... not sure this is the salt your looking for, but then again I'm not sure what your plan is because you said your trying to re-create LR but not make the stone... which is what he claimed he did.

I do have a question though... can ethanol be used instead of ether to extract the urine oil? Is there another way, without adding any solvents, to extract this oil of urine??

Andro
06-10-2016, 11:14 PM
I do have a question though... can ethanol be used instead of ether to extract the urine oil? Is there another way, without adding any solvents, to extract this oil of urine?

Read THIS THREAD (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1351-Ether-Extraction-Method) (entirely).

gedfire
07-26-2016, 02:21 PM
I have paused my experimentation with the Calcite.Still considering what to do after the yellow fluid stage.I have a theory though.Hope to get back to it soon.

Cyrano
11-12-2017, 04:39 PM
Hello,People...
I have noticed that the pictures of the Work, posted by LeoRetilus, on the main page of his "Success" thread, are no longer available for download. Anyone here,owning them, would it be so gentle, to make it avaiable again?.Thank you so much!

Awani
11-12-2017, 06:03 PM
This is why: Photobucket = CUNTS
(http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5296-Photobucket-CUNTS)
:p

Cyrano
11-13-2017, 01:33 PM
This is why: Photobucket = CUNTS
(http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5296-Photobucket-CUNTS)
:p

I hope that someone can repost it.The material that Leo posted, has great value;expecially when he talks about the Orgone energy in relation to Alchemy,to produce the true Philosophical Matters.