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Awani
12-10-2009, 09:52 PM
Heating and using fire is common in practical alchemy, but are there operations that involve the opposite... freezing?

:cool:

solomon levi
12-10-2009, 10:15 PM
Yes. Freezing is good for concentrating vinegar or urine, the good
parts needing a colder temperature to freeze than the water. So when
the water freezes, you pour out what will still pour and it is the
concentrated or "distilled" vinegar or urine.

Freezing also helps crystals to shoot.

Having very cold receiving glassware is sometimes necessary so
the distillate condenses instead of flying away.

There are probably other items one can concentrate/distill through
freezing.

Serpent
12-10-2009, 10:49 PM
That is a very interesting form of distillation Solomon Levi. I wonder if freezing has applications in other steps as well, like dissolution or separation.

solomon levi
12-11-2009, 01:42 AM
http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/12/78/17/61/th/pict0516.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=247&u=12781761)

This is urine that's been outside. You can see it has separated, the
darker on top and still fluid, the rest frozen.

LeoRetilus
12-11-2009, 02:29 AM
Heating and using fire is common in practical alchemy, but are there operations that involve the opposite... freezing?

:cool:

I copied my post from Ghislain's thread to here, since its seems relevant to this :
Its about lithium:

"Lithium is highly reactive with water and will even pull moisture out of the air and instantly oxidise and even ignite like pure sodium metal does with water. Lithium forms many salts and they are all poisonous, don't put them in your mouth , irreversible brain damage:eek:

You know whats cool about lithium? We can put it into liquid ammonia and it forms a deep blue color as it dissolves in the ammonia and if you can keep it sub-cooled you have a highly reductive environment that will burn metals in cold fire. The royal blue color is indicative of highly energetic solvated electrons.
Isn't physics cool?:cool: "

In addition the ammonia completely boils off and we are left with a dry matter, the lithium salts can then be extracted with water

And as Solomon states freezing can be used as a type of fractional distillation , separating by freezing temperature, i.e. store bought H202
can be separated from the water it's diluted with by sticking it in the freezer.

What kind of new alchemical processes can we develop utilizing current science?

Peace LVX

Frater L.R.

Seth-Ra
12-11-2009, 02:58 AM
I have a question about this, since my fire capabilities seem to be pretty much non-satisfactory, maybe i can use ice... how would one use that method for extracting plant oils or such? Cause i know roses require more heat then some due to the oil's frequency being higher, so im wondering do you dilute it more, then freeze it, or what? What if it all freezes? :confused: lol

Thanks for any help, and for bringing up the subject. (also, if this is going off topic, feel free to PM me any info. thanks. :) )

~Seth-Ra

LeoRetilus
12-11-2009, 03:22 AM
how would one use that method for extracting plant oils or such?

~Seth-Ra

While both types of fractional distillation can be used to separate oils it depends greatly on the differences in specific gravity ,they have to naturally separate and the lighter one float. Then the freezing points have to be different as well. I find a good way of separating oils from liquids is either by centrifugation or adjusting ph, a process I employed in my short stint of producing bio-fuels, a process similar to how they made soap in the old days.

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

Hyperborean
12-11-2009, 10:07 AM
Heating and using fire is common in practical alchemy, but are there operations that involve the opposite... freezing?

:cool:
I've seen in literature the hints on freezing of the dew after collecting and before the distillation in order to eliminate some impurities.

solomon levi
12-11-2009, 10:30 AM
The soap idea is a good one.
I wonder if, instead preparing a lye solution and adding it to oils,
what if the oils were in solution (tea, tincture, extract...) and the
lye is added to that solution in a proper proportion to saponify...

Not sure if it will work... if there's enough oils involved.

But that might be a solution for Seth-Ra.

Seth-Ra
12-11-2009, 10:36 AM
im not sure. seems more complicated then my solar distillation of it. With that, atleast the water in it will distill so ill still get the concentrated dose, while letting the sun do the work. lol

Ill keep looking into ideas though, never know when something will be helpful for a future work. ;)

Schmuldvich
10-31-2016, 12:26 AM
Heating and using fire is common in practical alchemy, but are there operations that involve the opposite... freezing?

This is something I ask myself as well. Very few quotes speak of freezing directly, though there are a couple times the old Alchemists speak of cooling being beneficial.

Does anyone here have experience with using an external cooling method or fan in their Great Work?


Thanks for sharing your pictures Solomon Levi!

Kiorionis
10-31-2016, 12:50 AM
Child's play:

https://youtu.be/0XdNBYgEloU

Our good friend Robert Frost has something to say about it as well:


Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what Iíve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

black
10-31-2016, 09:22 AM
I run my distillations through a special condenser immersed in a solution of
acetone that has had dry ice dissolved in it.

So much better than ice water.

With this setup I can catch the most volatile spirits with minimal loss.

Copied this design from Frater Albertus many years ago.