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solomon levi
12-11-2009, 09:42 AM
From an earlier thread:

Horticult Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon levi
"For all I know, Bacon may not even be talking about stibnite as he
mentions it has yellow and red and blue veins and rivulets...??? "

Yes, and quite similar is Fulcanelli in his Dwellings...



I believe arsenic holds the solution. It forms as yellow and red sulphides,
orpiment and realgar, respectively. Notice Bacon refers to the Arabic for
antimony: asinat, which is phonetically similar to arsenic.

The etymology is quite interesting. "Arsenikos" means "masculine",
and "potent". Orpiment, or Auripigment, obviously refers to its gold
color/pigment, but think "tincture". Realgar means "powder of the mines".

The grey allotrope of arsenic is layered like leaves of a book, and
consists of 6-membered rings - both the book and the number 6 were
clues given by Fulcanelli.

Both antimony and arsenic form mirrors in the same fashion.
These two are actually quite alike, arsenic being even more powerful
and able to better volatilise metals. Arsenic and Antimony share
the same column in the periodic table along with nitrogen,
phosphorus and bismuth.

http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/12/78/17/61/th/rebis_10.gif (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=248&u=12781761)

This is the fifth emblem from Basil Valentine's "Azoth", the Rebis.
Notice the masonic compass and square. The square is held in an
interesting fashion - both compass and square reflect the greek
letters lambda and gamma, which total 33. Yes, there are 33 degrees
of masonic initiation, but do you know what the 33rd element in
the periodic table is? Arsenic.

Here are some other mentions of arsenic in alchemical works:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/nelson1_4.html


BTW - arsenic is very toxic/poisonous and can kill you by simply
breathing arsenine gas. So I'm sharing this assuming that most
people will stay away from it anyway.

Salazius
12-11-2009, 03:03 PM
Thank you for your research on arsenik.
It's really a bad Dragon, I saw some of the photos of intoxicated persons...very ugly to see.

But, even a dangerous metal can be tamed with ease, we just have to know how.

LeoRetilus
12-11-2009, 09:10 PM
Wow so you are saying that I can extract the microcosmic salt contained in the arsenic with molten borosilicate glass. Wow there must be a reason we use glassware for alchemical processes in the first place, could the glass its self be the most common overlooked aspect of alchemy? I once had a dream where I extracted the seeds of gold from well dissolved gold and fixed it into a glass , it then attracted the power of heaven and caused it to bleed, the most precious and noble of bloods.

I enjoy all these texts that brother Sol brings us, join me in thanking Sol, for his hours of pouring over literature, extracting the meat and feeding us with knowledge. I'm a hungry lion
Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

horticult
12-12-2009, 12:44 AM
Well, I do not know what to say, but classics say "alchemist is the one who know to make the glass"...

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 04:45 AM
Wow so you are saying that I can extract the microcosmic salt contained in the arsenic with molten borosilicate glass.

Frater L.R.

:) I don't think I said all that.
My thoughts are to substitute it for the antimony reg path
and make arsenic regulus with mars, etc.
Or substitute it for Basil and Bacon's antimony acetate paths.
Or anything that one would use antimony for.
Not that antimony is useless - not at all.
Arsenic is just a stronger dragon.

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 04:48 AM
Thank you for your research on arsenik.
It's really a bad Dragon, I saw some of the photos of intoxicated persons...very ugly to see.

But, even a dangerous metal can be tamed with ease, we just have to know how.

You're welcome Salazius.
Yes, the legions on the sick make me think of another Fulcanelli
clue about being leprous.

LeoRetilus
12-12-2009, 04:55 AM
Well, from the source you quoted

"He that knows not how to fix Arsenic, to take away the corrosive nature of sublimate, to coagulate sulphureous spirits, and by a convenient specifical Medicine to break and analyze stones in the greater world, will never in the body of Man allay and tame the Arsenical spirits of the Microcosmic Salt, nor quite take away the venomous indisposition of the Sulphur, nor dissolve the Stone in the bladder, and drive it out being dissolved. It is a noble, safe and pious course we examine and try the force and virtues of Medicines upon Microcosmical substances, before we apply them to our fellow creatures, and the rare fabric of Man."

and

"The Basis of the Medicine was a fixed Arsenic, which fixation, I found, had been made with Borax in a crucible.."

Well, I thought we were on to something, so you are saying ......chemicals again,huh?:( Too bad


Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 05:23 AM
Well, from the source you quoted

"He that knows not how to fix Arsenic, to take away the corrosive nature of sublimate, to coagulate sulphureous spirits, and by a convenient specifical Medicine to break and analyze stones in the greater world, will never in the body of Man allay and tame the Arsenical spirits of the Microcosmic Salt, nor quite take away the venomous indisposition of the Sulphur, nor dissolve the Stone in the bladder, and drive it out being dissolved. It is a noble, safe and pious course we examine and try the force and virtues of Medicines upon Microcosmical substances, before we apply them to our fellow creatures, and the rare fabric of Man."

and

"The Basis of the Medicine was a fixed Arsenic, which fixation, I found, had been made with Borax in a crucible.."

Well, I thought we were on to something, so you are saying ......chemicals again,huh?:( Too bad


Peace and LVX
Frater L.R.

There are lots of items in that source. Why pic one and say that
that's what I am saying? You're the one saying it.
Don't pawn it off on me.

"Chemicals again, huh?"

Again, you are the one saying this. Is borax not chemical in your opinion? Are you suggesting we all avoid chemicals?

The forum runs more smoothly if we avoid trying to speak for others.
Please keep this in mind.


Fixing arsenic with nitre will probably work like it does with antimony.

LeoRetilus
12-12-2009, 05:45 AM
I am the, one saying it, but didn't want to say it directly , so I was trying to say it in a round about way, and now it seems I have angered you , so for that I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to say you were wrong about anything , merely trying to point out the significance about what you had found , and no there are not many things there, there is only one, if you are wise enough to spot it.


If making the Philosophers Stone was just about buying technical or reagent grade chemicals and mixing them up and making various compounds then it wouldn't be alchemy would it, it would be chemistry, there is no compound that when mixed together will yield gold, gold is an element, not a compound, making compounds is dealing with molecules, making gold is dealing with subatomics.
Many alchemists have poisoned themselves thinking that the power was in the elements or chemicals themselves, even modern day alchemists like Roger Caro and Kamila Jnana stress the importance of going out and mining your own ores and extracting the chemicals yourself and even goes to the trouble of showing you the difference in a picture, so there must be something else there besides the vulgar chemical that are missing from refining and ultra-refining commercially procured chemicals, something that is unseen and unmeasurable.


Once again sorry if I offended you in any way , I don't believe Alchemy is a competition where one is trying to outdo the other in terms of knowledge, and be a know it all, I'll stay off your posts

Peace and LVX

Frater L.R.

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 06:43 AM
Oooops! Sorry, moderating is new to me.
I meant to reply to your post with quotes and somehow I ended
up replying inside your original post.
Nothing has been edited in your post - just me removing my reply.

Let me try again.

To your first paragraph. I guess we disagree. I think if one were
truly wise all those items would be enlightening.

Second paragraph - I understand that. So it doesn't make sense that
when I suggest using arsenic in the paths of the masters in place of
antimony, that that suggests we ignore their advice about making
our acids from mineral sources, etc. What I suggested is in agreement
with you, and you posted as if we were opposed, as if I am saying to
use factory made chemicals. Why did you misread me?

Third paragraph - No need to stay off my posts... I am a moderator.
I would say this anywhere else as well. Speaking for others is always messy.
If we want to know what someone means to say, we can simply ask them.

I'm not angry with you Leo.
There have been some "flare ups" and I am trying to moderate as
best as i can.
If it seems personal, it is only because i have only seen you put words
into my mouth and no one else's.
I wasn't online for the earlier "flare ups" so I wasn't able to comment
or moderate.

I don't wish anything personal between us.
I am certainly not interested in any competitions. While I may provide
lots of info, it is always just info until we experience it through labor.
And I have a great excess of info/knowledge in proportion to my labor/wisdom.
So very little have I personally confirmed. Which is one of the reasons I believe
in sharing... individually, our time and resources are limited. As a group we
can cover more ground. :)

fra. sol.

ps - alchemy forums welcomes alchemy, spagyrie, archemy, chemistry...
it's good to point out the difference. I have done so often.

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 07:51 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the processes devoted to antimony can
be performed on Bismuth as well.

All the metalloids are interesting, being something of a mercury/
messenger between minerals and metals.
Pure metals being harder to open, minerals being confused with multiple
subjects and impurities, metalloids make idea subjects/materia to begin
the work with.

solomon levi
12-12-2009, 09:46 AM
"Arsenic presents another singular phenomenon, both with alkali
of nitre and with that of sea salt, which is, that if it be combined
with these salts in a fluid state, it forms with them a saline compound...
This saline compound, called liver of arsenic, takes up a much
greater quantity of arsenic than is necessary for the perfect
saturation of the alkali. It has the appearance of a glue, which is
so much the thicker the more arsenic it contains."

"Sulphur cannot be separated from arsenic but by the intervention
of two bodies only; to wit, a fixed alkali and mercury."

Encyclopedia Brittania - 1771

Awani
12-16-2009, 10:58 PM
...could the glass its self be the most common overlooked aspect of alchemy? I once had a dream where I extracted the seeds of gold from well dissolved gold and fixed it into a glass , it then attracted the power of heaven and caused it to bleed, the most precious and noble of bloods.

Kind of like a glass coffin... the symbolisms of alchemy is a very large area that I find very interesting. It is only here we really see that knowledge/science and art mix with great success.

Some glass symbols:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/gg.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/gm.jpg

See the one that looks almost like this (but upside down):

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/sq-cp-simple.gif

:cool:

LeoRetilus
12-17-2009, 02:47 AM
(Laughing inside with great joy) VERY GOOD

solomon levi
12-17-2009, 04:38 AM
The posts that strayed into symbolism have been moved:
symbolism - "33"

solomon