PDA

View Full Version : Thought for the day



Ghislain
01-13-2010, 09:08 PM
If we are all gods children then what was so special about Jesus?

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
01-13-2010, 11:45 PM
I don't think anybody has an absolute answer to that question.
The church would have us beleive that he was indeed the word
of God made carnate, and that would be plausible since that is
what he preached, and what he represented, and likewise we all
represent in a sense an aspect(s) of God
made carnate, in that we all make up his body.
That is why the Hebrews used to name angels with names
used to describe aspects of God or of the divintiy.
Likewise in other religions great spiritual leaders have come foward
and have claimed to be physical incarnations of aspects of divinity.
But in particular if we look at The Gospel of St Thomas, which I know
is more of a gnostic text, we can see through to the alchemical nature
of Jesus and there is some evidence to suggest his mother was an Essene.
And they may have been alchemists...this may then give us special insight as
to what he meant when he said, " The Kingdom of God is within you and all around you....split a piece of wood(oak) and I am there......pick up a rock(mineral) and you will find me...whoever understands the meaning of these words shall not taste death(The Elixir of Life)." Thus he said to his disciples, "take this my body and my blood and eat it and you shall have everlasting life"

Seth-Ra
01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
You make good points Leo. Though i personally think He was what He claimed, i also can see that we have characteristics of Him (God) also, after all, we (everyone) was made in His image (that was before Adam and Eve, who get created later down in the page, so obviously this would be the soul) and i think it partly due to my Gemini-ness, but also find it to be "right" that i find my interests in both alchemy healing, and martial arts/combat and philosophy. I used to pick at my brother and say he was more New Testament God (pacifist), and im more Old Testament (wrathful, "just"), but in reality; though i have an acutely high sense of justice, and overwhelming, deadly wrath towards injustice, i find myself also able to forgive what many would not, so... id say there is duality in that also.

We are made in His image, some have more aspects in one regard, others have more in others, but i think within selves and as a whole body, we all are balanced and part of the One, and All. :cool:
Other then that, it suppose it comes down to personal belief, i believe Yahoshua (Jesus) is the Christ, but i also believe that i am a son of God, for He lives in me, and around me, in time, and outside of time.

So "what makes Him so special", why, whatever one desires to believe ofcourse. Life is subjective, according to one's Truth, and the Absolute Truth of Truths is known and will be known, and even at that, its all perspective. To each their own according to their kind, unless they cause a transmutation to a better kind. (they deem better, again, subjective. ;) )

atleast thats my artistic view on it. :D

~Seth-Ra

Joy
01-14-2010, 07:32 AM
For three years, god spoke thru Jesus and gave us life guidance, inholding
deep wisdom.

Andro
01-14-2010, 10:13 AM
If we are all gods children then what was so special about Jesus?

My answer: Great story, well anchored in strong archetypal background PLUS agressive marketing strategy :)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

I personally view the bible as one of the better Alchemical allegories ever written. The way I see it, taking it literally would mean missing the whole point...

Like many other Alchemical texts, it's written in such a way that people will penetrate its mysteries only as far as their own personal level of advancement permits them.

Remember that like in many Alchemical texts, the traps are often laid out when giving precise recommendations, while the truths are revealed in the "Big No-No" lists of interdictions. I'm highly simplifying this, but it's actually much more complex...

Look at the interdiction of cooking the Red with the White (red meet in it's mother's milk). It's NOT an interdiction, it's a plainly revealed Alchemical principle ! ! !
And I've already talked enough about the "thou shall not lie with...:eek:" bit in another thread :D.

There's also a special mix of linen and wool that was mostly forbidden to wear (I think only the priests were allowed to) called Shatnez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatnez), and someone who's name I don't remember (possibly Flanagan) cured lung cancer by wearing this cloth and recycling his perspiration through it.

I'll conclude with my opinion that if you're into bible study and if you want to move deeper and beyond duality/polarity, read your bible with some extra special attention to interdictions and with a keen focus on reverse engineering :)

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0&annotation_id=annotation_994351&feature=iv) could be a good place to start, although it doesn't even begin to touch the Alchemical aspects, but remains on the astrological level most of the time...

solomon levi
01-14-2010, 06:52 PM
If we are all gods children then what was so special about Jesus?

Ghislain

I could write pages in response.
I'd have to, in order to be clear and cover all aspects.


Mary was not the only temple virgin in this cult (nothing negative implied) that
was impregnated by an "angel". These angels were other cult members who held
esteemed positions with titles like "Gabriel" or "Michael". So one might think
of Jesus as the product of good eugenics and planned/prophecied breeding between
a priest and priestess trained in a particular ancient wisdom school, and not a
virgin birth from some heavenly spirit or God. Think of a cult/religion with
political aspirations - they truly intended him to be King of the Jews. Magdalene
was not a mere whore, but another very powerful genetic line.

Obviously, and intentionally, much of the history was blended with the mythology
and intentional attempts made to have this person appear as a prophecied messiah - where he was born, having him ride into Jerusalem on an ass, etc...
It's all very political, and not as spiritual as we are meant to believe.


That doesn't mean we should deny the spiritual aspect, the myth, the alchemical
metaphor, etc. Just don't associate it with a particular historical human being.
After all, there are so many to choose from - Dionysius (an anagram for "mind of god"),
Apollo, Hercules, Mithra, Prometheus, Quetzalcoatl.....

Ghislain
01-14-2010, 09:33 PM
So one might think of Jesus
as the product of good eugenics

Could one say the same for Muhammad (pbuh)?

Ghislain

solomon levi
01-14-2010, 09:39 PM
I don't know about his parents/history much.

Andro
01-14-2010, 09:58 PM
Could one say the same for Muhammad (pbuh)?

Mr. Ghislain,

What does "pbuh" stand for?

Thank you.

As for Muhammad - I believe it's a matter of a different faction with different agendas. Think 'Dune'...

Ghislain
01-14-2010, 10:41 PM
Hi Androgynus

I read somewhere that when you mention
The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) you should say
'peace be upon him' after and just initial it if
written.

A sign of respect...keeps the peace :D

Dune ... yes a good film ... a message to be read there :)

Ghislain

Edit: found this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_be_upon_him_(Islam))

:eek: ooops looks like I have been lazy and disrespectful
according to senior Islamic scholars

Oh well...can't please everyone all of the time ;)

Andro
01-15-2010, 01:17 PM
A sign of respect... keeps the peace

Hey Mr. Ghislain,

Considering all the wars fought and atrocities comitted in the name of one or another religion/prophet/messiah:
Crusades, inquisition, jihad, burning women and 'heretics' at the stake, hanging (http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/10/shocking_new_ph.html) gays in Iran...
Don't you find the above statement a bit ironic?

I do :D

On the other hand, if by "keeping the peace" you mean doing so by means of religious (read: political) tyranny, condemning individuality and annihilating diversity - you may well be right... But is this the kind of peace we are longing for? 'Peace' is a lovely concept, not unlike 'love'... but the forms it may assume are not self-evident.

I can't think of a better place to quote Mr. Deviadah's "Terrarism Creed". Wonderful words and music to my ears:

"Destroy slavery. Support freedom. Kill oppressors. Adore knowledge. Eradicate traditions. Shred money. Write books. Burn flags. Sing songs. Demand truth. Laugh at patriots. Befriend thinkers. Forget religion. Remember the future. End triviality. Love your dreams. Give them life. Embrace your mind and follow the living God: Yourself!"

Ghislain
01-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Hi Androgynus

By keeping the peace I meant respecting anothers wishes and
tolerating their differing view.

I think all the control and atrocities you list in you post
are implimented by the few on the many.

I still have faith that in general mankind is good...unfortunately
sometimes weak and easily lead...I'm sure I can include myself in
that category, but every days a school day and I shall see the light ;)

Ghislain

Andro
01-15-2010, 02:55 PM
By keeping the peace I meant respecting anothers wishes and tolerating their differing view.

Cool. But where is the line? Where/when does adding "pbuh" to Mohammed turn into having English women cover their faces out of respect for the moslem population in the UK?


I think all the control and atrocities you list in you post are implimented by the few on the many.

True, but I doubt that the victims of these implements care much about who's implementing what on who... I personally feel that if I were to use "pbuh" I would be encouraging more such implements.


I still have faith that in general mankind is good...

I find the term "good" to absolutely meaningless without a context.
Good for whom? Good for what?


[...]unfortunately sometimes weak and easily lead...I'm sure I can include myself in that category.

Generally yes, but I think you underestimate yourself :)
From your posts, you definitely do not come across as someone who is weak and easily lead. That's the way I perceive you, anyway :)


but every day is a school day

Absolutely :)

Ghislain
01-15-2010, 03:59 PM
"Destroy slavery. Support freedom. Kill oppressors. Adore
knowledge. Eradicate traditions. Shred money. Write books. Burn flags
Sing songs. Demand truth. Laugh at patriots. Befriend thinkers. Forget religion
Remember the future. End triviality. Love your dreams. Give them life.
Embrace your mind and follow the living God: Yourself!"

I think it may be a bad thing to put labels on things.

Let me play devil’s advocate here:

Who decides what is to be classed as slavery...If one works for an employer
but is still on the breadline while that same employer makes much profit from
one’s labour; is that slavery? and to destroy it...are you condoning violence
to rid ourselves of it even though were are probably divided on what IT actually is.

Support freedom...are we talking of the freedom of the Zimbabwean people
to take back their land using violence and at the same time destroying the very
thing they wish to be theirs?

If we were to kill oppressors I would have assassinated Maggie Thatcher :)

Adore knowledge...sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
Take the attitude of the Muslim terrorists...obviously little knowledge of
what Islam stands for but more knowledge of how to make bombs :(

Eradicate tradition...I could take it or leave it...sometimes I do get a buzz
at watching a traditional event...have you seen the one where they chase
a cheese down a mountainside...hilarious, if a little dangerous.

Shred money? If we were to barter our services and lets say we fix fences
for farmers and they pay us in kind...our cupboards would soon be full and
produce going bad. We could perhaps trade it for another service with someone
else, but what if they dont need what I have? Money is...or should be...a token
for work done. The thing is today a lot of people get others to do the work for
their tokens and they are so good at it they have a surplus of tokens even though
they have done no work. Who is to blame for that? The free capitalist system :cool:

Write books...god forbid<--manner of speaking :rolleyes: I have a stockpile of
books I have not read yet...I would love to read everything but there is already
some real dross out there.

Burn Flags...it depends on what the flag represents

Sing songs :o You really wouldn’t want to hear me.

Demand truth...I know I want the truth but I have no misconception of
what it may mean for me to actually know it. I may not be able to handle
the truth I will have to live with that, but it may destroy another. Some
say ignorance is bliss...and I can see why this may be true.

Laugh at patriots...is there not a saying that charity starts at home :) there are cases where open
borders can make life unbearable for all concerned. People are like water they flow to where they
will prosper the best. An example is the eastern block citizens coming to GB thinking the streets
are paved with gold...they burn their bridges come over and realise the money is not here, but
under rule of the Warsaw Pact they had to learn how to live off the black market...and they are good at it.
Unfortunately GB is not good at keeping it under controll...they steal copper cables from the railway...
they kill and eat the wildlife...which the Brits already had under pressure...
I guess like water it will one day find a level, but at what cost?

Befriend Thinkers...can't argue with that...

Forget religion...difficult for some as it has been instilled in them since birth
I was brought up as RC \o/ I dont consider myself religious now...but that is just
my opinion. Someone truly non religious may see the effects of my religious
upbringing that I am not aware of. Perhaps used correctly religion can instil in
one a sense of right and wrong. I'm not going to cover this one in a couple of
words :D

Love your dreams. Give them life. If it’s possible do it :)

Remember the future. Not sure on that :confused:

End triviality...can't get too serious :p

Embrace your mind and follow the living God: Yourself!" Jury is still out on
that one for me.

These are just made up discussion points on my part...the point is
that it is having strong listed views on things that bring about problems
when we don’t all toe the line or see the line in a different place.

The French have a great saying... “Vive la différence".

I will sum the whole thing up with keep an open mind...and in the words
of Bill S. Preston, Esquire and "Ted" Theodore Logan... “Be excellent to each other”.

Ghislain

Andro
01-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Let me play devil’s advocate here

Mr. Ghislain,

My views are quite different from yours on the above topics, but then again I love it when someone plays devil's advocate! I am a practicant myself :)


Sing songs: You really wouldn’t want to hear me.

Yes I would :)


“Vive la différence"

I'll drink to that. And to you!

Cheers ! ! !

Hephælios
01-15-2010, 09:20 PM
Jesus is not anymore special than Odysseus, Jason, Perseus, or Krishna.

Andro
01-15-2010, 09:28 PM
Jesus is not anymore special than Odysseus, Jason, Perseus, or Krishna.

Actually, from a certain perspective, he is (special) - if you consider the aggresive PR and the massive bodycount :eek:

But archetypally speaking - I think you're absolutely right.

LeoRetilus
01-15-2010, 10:10 PM
I was raised roman catholic and do not beleive Jesus was the messiah or the christ anymore than the jews do. And for those beliefs I have been "excommunicated" from my family for quite some time.
And for many years I as well cursed his name like others for all the wars(holy crusades) that continue to this day, but I later realized that all of that was not what he intended, those were the acts of selfish men who wanted the holy lands for themselves and became a war between lords for land and power more than a war of spiritual idealogy. Likewise his message was greatly perverted by the church who came to represent the middle man between man and God and profited greatly from the proponderence of that ideal by taxing you a tenth of your income to speak to God for you.
With all this in mind, yes I do believe he was a mortal man born of a woman through sex out of wedlock, a big no,no in those times.
However, for a moment ,just for a moment lets forget the mortal man that was Jesus and the political messages/overtones by those struggling for power would have him represent and look at his message.
It was very simple do onto others as you would have them do onto you and love one another, and tell me what in the world is wrong with that?
So with that in mind I beleive one can be a "Christian" in that respect without having to believe that Jesus was the one and only son of God. And neither do I have to go to church to practise it, I do it with every act of every waking minute in how I interact with the other members of his creation, and thats with you , the ones that I love.

Hephælios
01-16-2010, 12:24 AM
Actually, from a certain perspective, he is (special) - if you consider the aggresive PR and the massive bodycount :eek:

But archetypally speaking - I think you're absolutely right.
I mean it in the sense in that they are all sulphur.

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 01:31 AM
Jesus is not anymore special than Odysseus, Jason, Perseus, or Krishna.

Isn't it a bit uncharitable to put him in that class. After all a few of those were out for their own glory. While Jesus came to give his message for yours, and he was willing to die for your salvation, not yours or mine or any one person's in particular but that of all of humanity.
And I am willing to die for it as well. Not because I beleive there was anything special about him, but I would gladly give my life if I knew for sure that doing so would ensure the ultimate salvation of mankind in the end. And by salvation I don't mean for his sins but for his nature and what it might do to the world in the end.(WWIII) For what good would my glory do, if in the end all of mankind perishes from creation, by his own hand or anothers(Visitors/Watchcers)? No one would be around to remember me or care that I ever existed.

Hephælios
01-18-2010, 01:57 AM
Isn't it a bit uncharitable to put him in that class.

No... it isn't.

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 10:58 AM
Jesus is not anymore special than Odysseus, Jason, Perseus, or Krishna.

More synchronicity......This is getting scary... I opened youtube to find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY) on the first page screaming for me to click on it.... I think I know what you mean now.:)

However, real or not, his message is still a good one to live by.

But as alchemists, May we all complete The Operation of The Sun(Son)

Andro
01-18-2010, 11:52 AM
More synchronicity......This is getting scary... I opened youtube to find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY) on the first page screaming for me to click on it.... I think I know what you mean now.

I find Mr. Hephælios to be absolutely right here...
There are powerful and similar Alchemical allegories behind every mythical 'saviour' ever written about.
Like Leo put it so well (if I understood correctly), they are all indeed symbolic of the Operation of the Sun/Son/Stone

It's all slowly coming together now...

BTW, I had already posted a link to Zeitgeist earlier in this thread :)
I guess it was only meant to surface now...


This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0&annotation_id=annotation_994351&feature=iv) could be a good place to start, although it doesn't even begin to touch the Alchemical aspects, but remains on the astrological level most of the time...

Ghislain
01-18-2010, 01:52 PM
The Youtube video, “Real Proof that Jesus was NOT real” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0&annotation_id=annotation_994351&feature=iv )
Was a really eye opening story at first glance, but as with any report there can be mistakes,
bias’, hidden agenda’s, and I am sure more reasons that the material may not reflect the complete truth.
Below are just a few examples that shed doubt on the material in the video. It would be easy to
find much more...I do like the story portayed :) but because I like it does not make it truth.

Horus (http://stupidevilbastard.com/2005/01/ending_the_myth_of_horus/)

Mithra (http://relijournal.com/christianity/the-christ-myth-part-1-mithras/)
(this has some annoying flashing ad’s)

Attis (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/List_parallels_between_Jesus_and_Greek_god_Attis_a nd_who_came_first)

Nothing is complete and thus nothing is exempt from criticism.{John Luther Adams}

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 06:15 PM
The Youtube video, “Real Proof that Jesus was NOT real” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgRUpDDrb0&annotation_id=annotation_994351&feature=iv )
Was a really eye opening story at first glance, but as with any report there can be mistakes,
bias’, hidden agenda’s, and I am sure more reasons that the material may not reflect the complete truth.


Ghislain

You're right that's a bad title.(For the Clip) Its not incontrivertiable proof that the physical man never existed. But the message of the video is compelling , will we ever know for sure? Should we care one way or another?

Maybe in the end all that matters is that we listen to the message (Jesus) , whether his life was a complete fabrication or not and like all the other mythologies ever written through time ,they do all have messages..... "And ignoring them would be tantamount to Plato's Cave"-Hephælios

And as well in that every production like that where that much time and money go into trying to prove a point is created to produce propaganda for someone's agenda, notice how they go out of there way to say evil isn't real either. I know for a fact that evil does exist, there are entities in this world and the next that are out to harm you and feed off of you. And while I might agree with that part of there message in the nature of opposing dualities.... I don't think I go out and burn all the Bibles in my house, just yet.......oh wait a minute I don't have one in this house....but I do have The Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Creation) and the Clavicula Salomonis, and that's all the protection I need.

On the lighter side

I few notable movie quotes stand out:

" The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.."- Verbal(Keyser Söze)The Usual Suspects

"And if there is a hell, and those sons of bitches are from it, then there has got to be a heaven... Jacob, there's gotta be. "- Seth Gecko,From Dusk Till Dawn

"How y'all think y'all got here? If it wasn't for ass
Ass is good!
Evil's good and ass is good.
And if you get you a piece of evil ass... Whew"-Eddie Murphy Vampire in Brooklyn

LeoRetilus
01-18-2010, 06:47 PM
I find Mr. Hephælios to be absolutely right here...
There are powerful and similar Alchemical allegories behind every mythical 'saviour' ever written about.
Like Leo put it so well (if I understood correctly), they are all indeed symbolic of the Operation of the Sun/Son/Stone


Exactly what I meant

Hephælios
01-18-2010, 11:45 PM
Unfortunately Zeitgeist is misleading... while I do agree with the video in that it represents something of a common meme found within all religions... their information and presentation is deplorable. Anyone with more than a passing interest in the Greek Pantheon of Gods could readily distinguish the difference between Dionysus (Bacchus) and Orpheus...yet within the Zeitgeist film they represent Dionysus with a well known (possible forgery) image of Orpheus crucified upon an anchor. If they can't get something as simple as this correct; I can assure you they fail on other accounts as well.
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images/orpheus_crux.jpg

solomon levi
01-19-2010, 07:40 PM
For me, I think it best not to make Jesus special, as that has given
so many people an excuse to be less than, poor sinners, or whatever.
It gives everyone who wasn't born of a virgin a great excuse to
not have to be christ-like.
If he is the ONLY begotten son of God, what does that leave/make us?

I knew this when I was 5 years old. I told my father and he stopped taking me
and my brother to (Lutheran) Church. From then on, he "home-schooled" me
every Sunday in metaphysics. I feel very fortunate to have a wise father.

Anything/belief that says "you're not it" is.... well, why believe that?
What a narrow spectrum of awareness/life that leaves one.
Don't limit your possibilities. :)
"Even greater things shall you do."