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View Full Version : The Night dew and the GW methods



garvolt2002
02-06-2010, 07:20 PM
Hi
Could someone let me know if its the same method for both ways. I see a great many emails on here about GW.
I would like to use the nightly dew, rain or snow. Do I just follow the GW way and use these instead??

memphis_mizraim
02-07-2010, 11:46 AM
You can work with all those materials. That's if you can get enough salts from them its not easy and you will need gallons and gallons to get a small amount of the special salts. That why GW is a little easier but its also a dangerous Path.

Andro
02-07-2010, 11:52 AM
That why GW is a little easier but it's also a dangerous Path.

I'm curious, why do you think it's dangerous?

memphis_mizraim
02-07-2010, 07:35 PM
I am missing two fingers because the crucible exploded it's like a bomb. GW is very explosive when you reach a certain stage. So be careful. I am still not convinced any of the methods work on here.

Ghislain
02-07-2010, 07:39 PM
Is that for real MM?

Ghislain

Edit: what created the ignition...or was it pressure?

Andro
02-07-2010, 07:40 PM
I am missing two fingers because the crucible exploded it's like a bomb. GW is very explosive when you reach a certain stage. So be careful. I am still not convinced any of the methods work on here.

Did you use a vacuum sealed crucible or an open one?

Was there anything else in the mix besides the GW?

What temperatures are we talking about?

I never use high temperatures unless I'm in the metallic department (rarely) or for spagyric plant calcinations (often).

memphis_mizraim
02-07-2010, 08:16 PM
I was using a sealed crucible and over 2000. This is incredible dangerous. If you don't believe me try it and see if you have real GW salts. Do it outdoors and run like hell. It's a bomb.

horticult
02-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Yes, I have mentioned here that in England collected GW for powder for guns.
But I am afraid that even empty sealed crucible is bomb at 2k oC.

garvolt2002
02-07-2010, 11:23 PM
Thanks for the many replies. So how do you safely fuse the salts and gold together? Sorry to hear about your accident Memphis.

solomon levi
02-08-2010, 03:12 AM
I'm curious if at these high temps perhaps fulminating gold is being formed.
Or perhaps other possible metal salts joining with ammonia to form fulminating versions.

Try fusing in an open crucible. This may still explode but at least it will be
directed upward through the opening.. mostly... maybe. :confused:

Maybe melt the gold first and throw the salts in wrapped in wax, then run. ;)

LeoRetilus
02-08-2010, 03:43 AM
Number one you should never heat anything in a sealed crucible/flask and allow it to build pressure without some kind of mechanical relief, this should be common sense, of course it will explode even water heated that way can explode. That being said I've blown myself up pretty bad as well with dry path fusions and static electricity, but those were essentially gunpowders, and ammonium nitrate such as will our GW contain will be explosive as are all nitrates but we shouldn't be using them like that for this path. Ammonia gas is released when those urine salts are heated and it being essentially a refrigerant will expand as a gas like nobodies business and will continue to build pressure exponentially as it is heated and your pressure vessel is only as good as the pressure it is rated for. So if you are using say 150PSI schedule 40 pipe and fittings you should have a form of mechanical relief set to blow below that rating . We use ammonia refrigeration systems at the plant I work at to freeze large volumes of fish, and I'll tell you ammonia is very dangerous especially as a hot gas, that's why we limit our high pressure side to about 150 PSI and our screw compressor packages are rated for about 250 PSI on the pressure vessels/oil separators. NH4 is no joke.

Andro
02-08-2010, 11:45 AM
The GW salts are not the GW stone.

This being said, there are ways to ferment metals (such as gold and silver) with this stone at temperatures no higher than a warm summer's day. It takes more time if you're not using the calx/ormes of the metal. I haven't tried calxes myself, but Leo's experience teaches that it greatly speeds up the process.

The only thing I'm regularily using higher temperatures for is calcining tartar or plant ashes to obtain potash, and always in an open crucible.
And if I distill at higher temps, I always distill in sand (not over an open flame), and there's always an outlet for pressure release.

As I said before, I'm not very technically inclined and I won't take any chances of blowing myself up...

Rueb
02-08-2010, 04:36 PM
memphis_mizraim, oh dear thats horrible to hear :(

It is hard to ask this but could you explain in detail your whole setup and which GW crystals (their color, maybe odor) that happend with.

If you dont want to I can understand that.

Rueb

dan
02-08-2010, 10:42 PM
Hi Leo,
first of all my compliment to you for your expertise.
Since the danger of these procedures, crystals would be obtained
by dissolving gold in GW / dew or rain water putrefied by
electrolysis and then evaporating and condensing the liquid to a
gentle and moderate temperature?
I ask this because the effect of electrolysis inside the glass jars of the
ancient alchemists could trigger (due to ion migration, acid alkaline
reaction on the metal).????
Could modern electrolysis be a solution?

LeoRetilus
02-09-2010, 12:06 AM
I was more or less relating to the expansive nature of captured ammonia gas and what I beleive Sol was warning about fulminating gold, if the GW path is gone about incorrectly you will have AuHN.NH2, the first high explosive. Go here and read about it :http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/gold/index.html

Taken from said webpage to illustrate:

"Johann Rudolph Glauber (1604 -1668), a German alchemist, experimented with suicidal quantities of fulminating gold. In De Purgatorio Philosophorum - A Treatise Concerning the Purifying Fire, he describes an explosive method of plating steel needles with gold.
He recommends preparing the Aurum Fulminans (exploding gold) by precipitation from the gold solution (in aqua-regia), not by using Salt of Tartar (potassium carbonate, made by heating cream of tartar, or potassium tartrate), but with Salt of Urine (ammoniacal salts containing ammonium carbonate)."


For jovial illustration:
http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/gold/goldpics/henrietta.jpg

As Androgynus stated these ammoniacal salts are not the volatile salt of urine, although volatile they are, but by "volatile" we do not mean, "explosive".

crestind
07-20-2014, 03:31 PM
I was using a sealed crucible and over 2000. This is incredible dangerous. If you don't believe me try it and see if you have real GW salts. Do it outdoors and run like hell. It's a bomb.
Sealing expanding gasses can cause the vessel to burst? You don't say...

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