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Ghislain
02-14-2010, 08:24 AM
Present work with acetic acid and iron oxide, which was mentioned on the forum recently.
The material used was some impure iron oxide made previously from a stainless steel knife. It is not
known what type of FeO this is as there are many.

See this thread

Out of curiosity the FeO was checked with a strong magnet - contained in a window cleaning device -
and while doing so a wyrd idea transpired. The pot containing the FeO was left on the magnet and
the acetic acid applied to it in situ.(The set up ( http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/the%20setup.jpg )) The reasoning was to see what if any non magnetic
material would precipitate out of the FeO into the CH3COOH. This (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic acid and iron%20oxide/acid on oxide.wmv ) link will open a wmv of
the acid reacting with the oxide before being completely covered. There are two magnets in
the device, hence the two mounds of oxide. On checking it showed these to have differing poles.

After 12 hours the acid (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/Fluid%2012%20hours.jpg ) has turned very red. Sorry about the photo quality;
the glass was held up to the light to show the colour.
Another pic (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/both%20containers.jpg )

How long should the acid be left on the oxide?

Any hints or tips as to where to go from here would be appreciated ;)

Ghislain

solomon levi
02-14-2010, 01:44 PM
Is this in reference to the acetate path?

If so, you will eventually need to do a very high temp distillation on
the acetate and you need proper glassware that will take the heat or it
will be dangerous - if the vessel bursts and you fill your space with
strong vinegar fumes....

There are other acetate paths that don't require the strong distillation -
Basil Valentine and Roger Bacon's works on antimony, and French gives this
one on lead:

A BURNING SPIRIT MADE OUT OF LEAD MOST FRAGRANT AND BALSAMICAL
Take the calx of saturn, or else minium, and pour upon it so much spirit of vinegar that may cover it four fingers breadth. Digest them in a warm place the space of 24 hours, often stirring them that the matter settle not too thick in the bottom. Then decant the menstruum and pour on more. Digest it as before and this do so often until all the saltness be extracted. Filter and clarify all the menstruum being put together. Then evaporate it half away and set the other part in a cold place until it crystallizes. These crystals dissolve again in fresh spirit of vinegar. Filter and coagulate the liquor again into crystals, and this do often until they be sufficiently impregnated with the sal ammoniac of the vinegar as their proper ferment. Digest them in a temperate balneum that they may be resolved into a liquor like oil. Then distill this liquor in sand in a retort with a large receiver annexed to it, and well closed that no spirits evaporate, together with the observation of the degrees of the fire. Then there will distill forth a spirit of such a fragrant smell that the fragrancy of all flowers and compounded perfumes are not to be compared to it. After distillation when all things are cold, take out and cast away the black feces which is of no use. Then separate the yellow oil which swims on the top of the spirit and the blood red oil which sinks to the bottom of it. Separate the phlegm from the spirit in balneum. You shall by this means have a most fragrant spirit that even ravishes the senses, and so balsamical that it cures all old and new sores inward and outward, and so cordial that the dying are with admiration revived with it.
They that have this medicine need scarce use any other either for inward or outward griefs.

Ghislain
02-17-2010, 10:31 AM
When I had enough acetate...if that is what this red liquid is...I wanted to wash
the oxide I had left to remove any acetic acid. I did this a couple of times with
fresh water, letting the residue settle each time then pouring away the dirty water
from the top.

The residue was extremely fine and black. When rubbed between the fingers it
felt oily. For this reason I thought I would boil this residue to see if any oil came
off. After boiling for a while i couldn't see any oil but carefully poured the excess
liquid into another vessel.

The next day this liquid had formed a whitish crust and upon checking it and the
liquid left it is extremely alkaline.

What would this crust be? and why alkaline when I was using acid?

Ghislain

Ghislain
02-17-2010, 10:52 AM
Below is a picture of the white crust and another of the reclaimed oxide.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=132 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/Alkaine%20material%20extracted%20from%20the%20iron %20oxide.jpg)

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=133 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/recovered%20Iron%20oxide.jpg)

Ghislain

Aquabarhumbugicus

solomon levi
02-17-2010, 06:47 PM
How long should the acid be left on the oxide?

Any hints or tips as to where to go from here would be appreciated ;)

Ghislain

If you've dissolved your iron in the acid, then if you decant/filter it off
and then set it to evaporate you'll get some crystals of iron acetate which are
what you would dry distill for the mercury and sulfur. That's the usual path.

If you dry distill the acetate crystals, a little water will come over first, then
thick white smoke that condenses in a chilled recipient as your mercury (radical
vinegar, glacial acetic acid). If you get that far, you want to raise the temp until
you get a yellow oil or finally a red.

Ghislain
02-17-2010, 10:25 PM
Thanks Sol'

BTW I made a mistake on identifying the alkaline material above. It was the result of another experiment, trying to dissolve sand in sodium hydroxide.

I forgot about it, I do apologise.

Ghislain

P.S. It didn't seem to work...well not entirely...although this will dissolve silica gel
to produce sodium silicate.

solomon levi
02-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Torch/fuse the sand and alkali together for a half hour or so, then mortar and
pestle and leave it to deliquesce (attract the moisture from the night air) and
you will have oil of sand/flints/quartz.

Ghislain
02-17-2010, 10:51 PM
I have done this with potash and sand...my torch does not burn hot enough...
so I heated it untill some fused then mortar and pestled it, repeated this three times
and have it sitting outside in the damp night air...it is very cold though.

Just checked it and it is only slightly damp.

Ghislain

As the torch wasn't fusing through the receptacle I put a direct flame to the material
is that ok?

solomon levi
02-20-2010, 12:38 AM
As the torch wasn't fusing through the receptacle I put a direct flame to the material
is that ok?

I've done that too. I can't say if any elements of the gas interact with
the matter in the crucible. I've wondered that myself. As far as the Angel
water that is collected, I think it's fine for all intents and purposes.

Ab Roek
02-20-2010, 03:18 AM
Torch/fuse the sand and alkali together for a half hour or so, then mortar and
pestle and leave it to deliquesce (attract the moisture from the night air) and
you will have oil of sand/flints/quartz.

Solomon,

This reminds me of what we talked about in the primum ens melissae thread.

From what I've gathered, the primum ens can only be extracted with a liquor that has properties very close to the circulatum minus- that is, a slightly acidic milieu that will cause the ENS to float to the top of the liquor after the separation has occured. Keep in mind that these are two different goals- dissolution and separation. Achieving a liquor that can do both is the key (as I know it is fairly easy to make a separation with an alkaline "ens" process, but for those who have searched intently among several different sources it becomes evident that there is more to the story).

So now, I wonder, was Glauber hinting at something similar to what you mention here regarding the oil of sand?

I never did borrow my friend's torch, by the way. I have renewed cause to do so now. Thank you.

BTW-- There is also a third possibility with interpreting Glauber, which I mention here only to forwarn that gentle reader who has wearied of travelling down so many blind paths, and just so happens to be looking for some firm bedrock beneath the ever-shifting sands.

Fidelity,
AB RK

Ghislain
05-23-2010, 09:07 PM
The liquid which was collected from over the magnet held iron oxide was placed in a jar and a cloudy
precipitate settled to the bottom.

This was siphoned off regularly and again left until finally a clear blood red liquid was left and no
longer precipitated any sediment.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=170

The picture doesn't really show the lovely colour of this liquid

This has been left out in the sun to evaporate with a tissue covering so as not to get any impurities in
it. I am hoping to produce a nice red crystal, if thatís possible.

If it happens I shall post another picí.

Ghislain

Ghislain
06-07-2010, 12:14 PM
The red liquid was left to evaporate in the sun and the result
can be seen below...a red mush that is not quite dry but also has some
dark harder lumps in it. I prodded it with my finger :)

Not sure whether or not to invest in some glassware to do the dry distillation.

What would be needed and what would be the rough cost...anyone?

Thanks

Ghislain

Edit: I also have a lot more precipitate from the liquid I removed from the oxide
but what has dried here was very clear. The rest probably has some impurities.
Should I include it if I decide to do the dry distillation?

solomon levi
06-08-2010, 06:24 PM
When I was considering this path, I thought that perhaps iron or steel
would be fine to replace expensive glassware, since we're distilling
iron acetate in the first place. Probably any steel pipe which
you can seal at one end and heat the matter there and let the smoke/glacial acetic
rise out the other end and collect it in something.

Be very careful the fumes if you do this. Very strong - bad for lungs, nose, eyes, etc.

Ghislain
06-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the tips Sol.

I have a more pressing question just now...

I took some of the dried red powder and mixed it with water to see what would happen. It dissolved
quite readily and I was little impressed. I thought I would just dry it out so as not to lose any of this
powder should I decide to do the dry distillation.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=178

As it started to dry it formed a skin, like that you would expect from a muddy solution. It was Fairly
shiny on the surface and as it dried out more it started to crack. Tempted, I touched it and it was just as I expected...damp and sticky.

This Morning it was almost dry, so I scraped it off the side of the glass with a spoon so as to let air get around it.
I touched it again with my bare fingers...I washed it off with water from the tap.

On inspection about three hours later I found needle crystals growing out from this damp powder.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=177

I don’t think this was Iron Acetate, but rather some trace elements from the stainless steel.
Can anyone Identify what this is?...I have had a rather bad stomach all day and believe it could be
related

Thanks

Ghislain

Ghislain
07-24-2010, 09:53 AM
I was drawn toward a web link on Diana's_Tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana's_Tree).
It is a crystal growth that is obtained from mercury in a solution of silver nitrate.

I don't think that is what is happening in the pic of the previous post, but in the 'Diana's Tree'
article there is mention of another crystal formation called 'Saturn's Tree', which is produced
by a shaving of zinc in a solution of the lead(II)acetate. Could this be what is growing in the glass?
It would make sense.

I can't find any pictures of 'Saturn's Tree'. If anyone has a pic could you post it or a link please?

Thanks

Ghislain

True Initiate
07-24-2010, 04:37 PM
The red liquid was left to evaporate in the sun and the result
can be seen below...a red mush that is not quite dry but also has some
dark harder lumps in it. I prodded it with my finger :)

Not sure whether or not to invest in some glassware to do the dry distillation.

What would be needed and what would be the rough cost...anyone?

Thanks

Ghislain


You will need a couple hudred bucks at the most if you use the second hand glasware like i do.I buy my stuff here:

http://www.rafanet.de/

The basic protection against the fumes are the Safety glasses, Half-mask respirator and gloves.

I advise to start with the very small amount of VITRIOL just to see how much fumes he gives off by heating.

Ghislain
07-30-2010, 09:46 PM
Leo talking of the white needles in another thread


heat a copper plate to red hot and drop them on it and see if this mercury of iron augments that which exists in copper to bring it to the ratios that exist in silver, effecting a transmutation.

The copper used was a flattened copper tube (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/flattened%20copper%20tube.png)

There was only a small amount of the white crystals (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/white%20crystals.png) available.

As the torch being used was not working properly the first attempt at heating (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/first%20attempt%20heating.png)
was not sufficient to bring the copper to red heat. Due to this the flame was
placed directly onto the white crystals and the result (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/first%20res.png) was a black residue.

Later the torch spat out some rubbish and began to work at full capacity again.

This second attempt at heating (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/second%20attempt%20heating.png) resulted in red hot copper and the white crystals
were placed upon this as can be seen. The heat didn't appear to affect the white
crystals so they were pressed against the copper with the back of a pair of chrome
plated tweezers (impatience :o). The crystals appeared to smear out. The result (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/second%20res.png)
of this was a reddish powder which was of so little volume that an attempt to recover
it by scratching the copper had no result.

This will have to be tried again with a greater volume of the white crystals.

Ghislain

Ghislain
07-30-2010, 10:15 PM
TP

Thanks for that link

I had a look but I would not know where to start...or where to end :(
I would be bankrupt in a week if I started.

Could I be cheaky and ask you to put together a list of the package I
would need from that site to do the dry distilation?

No problem if not but thanks again anyhow

Ghislain

P.S. I think I would need the complete setup as I have little in the way of heating it
other than a blow torch, which is a little hard to control.

LeoRetilus
07-30-2010, 11:09 PM
P.S. I think I would need the complete setup as I have little in the way of heating it
other than a blow torch, which is a little hard to control.

Just a suggestion but a cheap alternative to an expensive laboratory heater for dry distillations, is to buy a one burner hot plate like this from walmart for $18.00:
http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/12/41/01/0002124101303_215X215.jpg

And then get an round oven safe stoneware casserole dish or dutch oven and fill it full of sand, I use a magnetite-sand mixture from the beach...couldn't hurt could it. And place your distillation flask in it buried in the sand to the level you want to heat the material inside the flask at. And place the hot plate under it, preferably with a thin graphite plate in between them that will help distribute the heat more evenly to the dish, this will prevent the dish from shattering, even if its oven safe especially if your hot plate is one of those old types of spiral ceramic burners that gets red hot, this would mean that the areas where it makes contact with the stoneware dish will get very hot while others areas will be significantly cooler, causing uneven expansion and shattering...I've been through a few of them, thus the need for the buffer. Plus the advantages of a sand bath are innumerable, as they provide more even heat distribution and continue to provide heat as the burner cycles on and off. Alot of alchemical manscripts in there operations call for a banum siccum for heating, this is a sand bath.

LeoRetilus
08-23-2010, 01:01 AM
Thanks for the tips Sol.

I have a more pressing question just now...

I took some of the dried red powder and mixed it with water to see what would happen. It dissolved
quite readily and I was little impressed. I thought I would just dry it out so as not to lose any of this
powder should I decide to do the dry distillation.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=178

As it started to dry it formed a skin, like that you would expect from a muddy solution. It was Fairly
shiny on the surface and as it dried out more it started to crack. Tempted, I touched it and it was just as I expected...damp and sticky.

This Morning it was almost dry, so I scraped it off the side of the glass with a spoon so as to let air get around it.
I touched it again with my bare fingers...I washed it off with water from the tap.

On inspection about three hours later I found needle crystals growing out from this damp powder.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=177

I don’t think this was Iron Acetate, but rather some trace elements from the stainless steel.
Can anyone Identify what this is?...I have had a rather bad stomach all day and believe it could be
related

Thanks

Ghislain

Hi, Ghislain I would recommend to procede from this point that this picture of your illustrates with the path of Opus Magnum Ex Virgina Terra, from the point where it states" Still when it is dry, imbibe and turn the earth often. Continue this till (symbol for sublimation). The hot (symbol for sun) , (especially in the dog days) will make a pure salt shootup, (which your picture illustrates,..the mercury of vitriol of iron), which mingle back into the earth, by turning it all over"......
Next the document tells to distill this matter, which wyrdly enough was your next task anyways,.....a dry distillation. What do you think?

Additionally I wouldn't recommend ingesting any of this at these stages because as these metallic decompositions procede to separate the two metallic natures namely arsenic(mercury) and sulfur then almost invariably the white crytals surely carry some traces of arsenic trioxide.

Ghislain
08-23-2010, 03:39 PM
In the following post click on the pictures for a little more detail.

Another batch of the same material was processed. This time all sediments were left in so the
beginning material was very murky. The mixture consisted of only materials dissolved from the iron
oxide in strong acetic acid at this time.

This was left in outside under the sun and moon to evaporate, covered with a piece of kitchen towel.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=180 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pic%201.jpg )

The dried material had some very dark red spots which can be seen below. On this occasion they
were not separated but this may be done in future for further investigation.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=181 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pic%202.jpg)

While still slightly damp the sediment was broken away from the glass and left to dry further.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=182 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pic%203.jpg)

The material was then ground to a fine powder.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=185 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/3a.jpg)

After this it was rehydrated with plain water and mixed into a muddy looking liquid.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=183 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pic%204.jpg)


Once again the mixture was covered with KT and left out in the open to evaporate. Below
is a pic of the mixture with the towel removed. It has a thick consistency which can be seen in a short video clip here. (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/Iron sludge.wmv)
Be patient it takes a while to buffer :o

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=184 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pic%205.jpg)

More to come, I hope :)

Ghislain

Ghislain
09-06-2010, 11:59 PM
Below are pictures in age order of the formation of the white needle salt.

Click on the pics to see larger images.

Pics 1 – 4 are various stages of the material drying undisturbed.

Pics 5 – 10 are of the material after it has been broken up and the needles are starting to
form. From 5 to 10 took about a day approx.

Pic 11 is of the white needles after they were painstakingly picked out with a pair of tweezers
then placed in a sealed jar that was placed open to the elements as per Leo’s instructions. They
seem to have clumped together – due to being manhandled not by any attractive force - and, at first,
they were able to roll around the jar but now seem to have stuck where they are. It is not yet clear if
they are liquefying. The quantity is so small it is hard to say...more on this later.

Is there a time stated for this liquefying to take place Leo?

The residue, still with some white needles in, was mixed with the residue left from the first attempt
at this experiment. Plain water was again mixed with this and then left to dry out. A different
formation of crystal has appeared this time, see pic 12. It only became apparent that these still had
a needle like appearance after being seen in the photo, as to my naked eye they appeared like glassy
little crystals which can be seen here (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic acid and iron oxide/Crystal formation.wmv ) in a short video clip, however it is not very clear as this was
taken under electric light.

There is still some raw material left so another experiment may be to go through to the formation of
the white needle salt and mix it all back together to see the result.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=186 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics.JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=187 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (2).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=188 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (3).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=189 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (4).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=190 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (5).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=191 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (6).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=192 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (7).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=193 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (8).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=194 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (9).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=195 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (10).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=196 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (11).JPG)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=197 (http://genius.toucansurf.com/acetic%20acid%20and%20iron%20oxide/pics (12).JPG)

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
09-07-2010, 01:04 AM
They should liquify if you apply a moderate heat, however, the key is to get them to liquify on their own by absorbing moisture, but out of sunlight, the mechanism has them absorbing moisture to turn into green crystals in which they will also produce a red oil at first in small quantites, then the are exposed to sunlight and the green crystals decompose back into a white powder then it is imbibed with moisture/dew once again and this time when they crystallize into green cubic crystals more red oil will be present they are then exposed to sunlight once again and they become decomposed once again, then they are allowed to absorb moisture once again until green crystals form and the process is repeated again and again until the greeness turns into a complete redness. That all being said though is the process for making the green and red oils of vitriol(glauber's sweet oils). Remember the innergarden.org page on vitriol of Hollandus? This is the process they are describing except they take it to a stone .
However to procede as the Opus Magnum Ex Virgina Terra the next step would be to return that white salt back to the earth and continue your metallic decomposition with a dry distillation of the entire media to first separate the subtle from the gross, which is a liquor and a salt that will come over which you will circulate a month in one of your demi johns stopped shut in B.M. this will be the first gross union of the subtlest parts of our earth, water, air and fire, and from this chaos you will distill again the three principals and purify them each indiviually and reunite them until your alkahest is born which you will then dissolve your sol into. Don't forget the calcination and volatilization of the salt is very important and marks an important step that is a great operatory key left out by most adepts, the most important thing to keep in mind here is that which I posted in the dry water thread "It is a natural and philosophical Axiom "Non transire posse abuno Extremo ad alterum absque medio," -- that is: It is impossible to proceed from one Extream to another Extream without a Medium. This Axiom every Artist ought to mind, thousands err because they do not observe this Truth.
Fire cannot become water without air, and earth cannot become air without water . If you would unite fire, as being extreamly volatile and subtil, with the earth, which is corporeal and fixt, you will never be able to do it; because the most Volatile will forsake the fixt and return to its Chaos. This is so in all Natural Things, that the most Volatile principle, cannot unite with the most fixt without its proper medium. An Artist ought to observe this constantly that he may not lose his time, his Matter, and Expenses."
So in otherwords how to get the earth(salt) to become air and fly over as well instead of staying behind in the distillation chamber. Volatilize the fixt.....

Ghislain
09-07-2010, 06:47 AM
I am a little at a loss here Leo for in one post you suggest to place the needles sealed up and placed
in the sunlight,


Now if you are game try this, remove some of those needles and place
them in a jar seal them up and expose them to sunlight, and see if the sulphur of the sun does not
radically unite with this mercury and melt into a yellowish colored liquid.

and in another unsealed, I am supposing, so as to absorb moisture and out of sunlight.


the key is to get them to liquefy on their own by absorbing moisture, but
out of sunlight,

Nonetheless I am grateful for your input :) any suggestions are welcome. I shall try both.

I am not sure what I have here...could be a step closer to what is sought or a leap in the wrong
direction. It has all been carried out by curiosity and happenstance. I have mixed many things
together and had some strange results, some of which have been washed down the sink...who
knows what great discoveries may be flowing down to the sewer :(

The experiments are hindered by lack of room, materials, equipment, and knowledge, but somehow
results keep popping up. Dare I say there may be messages from the ether? Who knows \o/

Only time will tell ;)

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
09-07-2010, 10:02 AM
I am a little at a loss here Leo for in one post you suggest to place the needles sealed up and placed
in the sunlight,



and in another unsealed, I am supposing, so as to absorb moisture and out of sunlight.



Nonetheless I am grateful for your input :) any suggestions are welcome. I shall try both.

I am not sure what I have here...could be a step closer to what is sought or a leap in the wrong
direction. It has all been carried out by curiosity and happenstance. I have mixed many things
together and had some strange results, some of which have been washed down the sink...who
knows what great discoveries may be flowing down to the sewer :(

The experiments are hindered by lack of room, materials, equipment, and knowledge, but somehow
results keep popping up. Dare I say there may be messages from the ether? Who knows \o/

Only time will tell ;)

Ghislain

It depends on the stage of the work and which path we are speaking of. And I was speaking of multiple paths to work this material. Generally liquidfaction takes place after putrefaction, which can take a while if sealed and gentle heat applied, however if you imbibed with dew and if this material is hygroscopic it will liquify as well but for obviously different reasons, so you really have to decide which path you want to take with this material and stick with it, but why not take half and procede one way and the other half and procede another.

True Initiate
09-25-2010, 11:14 PM
I am not sure which path you follow but usually when you pour the solvent over the matter there are two possibilities:
1. To disolve the matter
2. To extract the essence (in this case acetate) from the matter

Acetic acid cann't dissolve iron oxides so pouring it over and evaporating it is a waste of vinegar.

If you want to extract the Acetate from the oxide you should pour the vinegar (preferably destilled and colourless) over the oxide and macerate it until vinegar is tinged red.After this occurs decant (do not evaporate!) the vinegar and put a fresh one on the matter to extract more.Repeat the same process until the vinegar is no longer coloured which is a sign that the solvent has extracted everything from the matter.Then combine all the tinged vinegar in one bowl and evaporate it slowly to concetrate it.If it is much water present it will crystalize if not it will harden into a gum or honey like substance.This needs to be dissolved in water to purify it in the end you will obtain iron acetate.

If you try the dry destillation of the crystals or gum (it depends on the preparation) the bigger portion of the acetate will be melted back to it's metallic state and the work will yield no results.

Now here lies the Great stumbling block and secret of the "Acetate" path (which is in fact non-existent).
Here ends the gross work and the philosophic one begins!

Here is a nice example of copper acetate which is melted back to copper when acetic acid (radical vinegar in this stage) is removed (evaporated).
http://img281.imagevenue.com/loc534/th_54926_tncuac_122_534lo.JPG (http://img281.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=54926_tncuac_122_534lo.JPG)

oratius
01-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Could you pls clarify some things about acetic acid?

a. Frozen vinegar yields glacial acetic acid. With this, we prepare metal acetates which -- by sublimation -- yield radical acetic acid. What is the difference between the two? Can they be used interchangeably?

b. If we pour acetic acid on a metal we get an acetate. If we pour acetic acid on a metal oxide, what do we get?

Thank you,

Oratius

True Initiate
01-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Glacial acetic acid is 99.99% water free Acetic Acid.
By freezing vinegar and separating the water from the solution you get more concentrated solution of Acid but you need to repeat the process of freezing and separating over and over again to arrive at the Glacial. Common kitchen vinegar contains about 7% of Acetic Acid and 93% is water, so from 1L of vinegar you can get max. yield of 70ml of Glacial but what a waste of time.

By pouring Acid on some metal or oxide of metal like Copper you get a solution and from there it depends what you want to do with it.If you want to make an acetate then you evaporate the solution until it forms a skin and you crystalize it by cooling and the acid stays with the metal or oxide.

If you want to extract something from a metal or oxide then you let the Acid absorb what you wish to absorb it and later separate the Acid from the metal or oxide then you are left with your extract.In this case the Acid is only a tool for extraction and not a ingredient of the obtained product.

solomon levi
12-01-2011, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the tips Sol.

I have a more pressing question just now...

I took some of the dried red powder and mixed it with water to see what would happen. It dissolved
quite readily and I was little impressed. I thought I would just dry it out so as not to lose any of this
powder should I decide to do the dry distillation.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=178

As it started to dry it formed a skin, like that you would expect from a muddy solution. It was Fairly
shiny on the surface and as it dried out more it started to crack. Tempted, I touched it and it was just as I expected...damp and sticky.

This Morning it was almost dry, so I scraped it off the side of the glass with a spoon so as to let air get around it.
I touched it again with my bare fingers...I washed it off with water from the tap.

On inspection about three hours later I found needle crystals growing out from this damp powder.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=177

I donít think this was Iron Acetate, but rather some trace elements from the stainless steel.
Can anyone Identify what this is?...I have had a rather bad stomach all day and believe it could be
related

Thanks

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain. I was just reading again on mountain butter, aka halotrichite, feather alum:
http://www.mindat.org/min-1809.html

I was reminded of your picture with hair salt from iron, but there's no aluminum or sulfur in there, huh?
One can make mountain butter by combining iron sulfate (maybe the oxide instead) and alum in a sulfuric acid solution and slowly evaporating to crystals.

amoodikh
03-31-2012, 11:23 AM
You can produce or extract iron sulfur with acitate acid method. Here is a picture of end result.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/ironsulfurfromacetateac.jpg/

True Initiate
03-31-2012, 12:53 PM
The real question is did you obtained Iron's Sulphur or just Iron's Acetate?

Can we call this process an extraction or just chemical reaction?

Weidenfeld
03-31-2012, 02:45 PM
You can produce or extract iron sulfur with acitate acid method. Here is a picture of end result.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/ironsulfurfromacetateac.jpg/

It's completely impossible to achieve the real alchemical Sulphur, which is a real new entity, without the real Universal Menstruum. All what you guys name an 'alchemical sulphur' is nothing else than an ordinary chemical compound without only one single atom beyond the periodic table of the elements. These praparations aren't philosophical at all.