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lillith93
04-27-2010, 02:15 AM
The one thing you will always here from anyone is to try to be your best, to try to be perfect. Many people take this to heart, and many people die trying. That there is the exact problem.

Seth-Ra and myself discussed this, and have come to the conclusion that the search for perfection is a necessary motivation through life, but that it often gets in the way of actually living. I personally think it would be much better to search for perfection unsuccessfully and live a full life, than to search for perfection and only attain it in death.

The question now is what is more important, perfection, or a life well lived?

Lillith

Seth-Ra
04-27-2010, 02:34 AM
Id say a well lived life (definitions may vary) with perfection at the end of it. :)


~Seth-Ra

Andro
04-27-2010, 03:52 PM
IMO:

Manifest Creation is and always will be imperfect.

If it would be 'perfect', it wouldn't be.

As long as it needs to manifest, there is separation, imperfection and a whole lot of broken mirrors ;)

If it didn't need to manifest, it would be Need-Less (thus 'perfect'), and 'needless' requires no manifestation.

solomon levi
04-27-2010, 07:23 PM
Yeah, I think that perfection would imply an ending, a conclusion of a thing,
which doesn't really exist. Perfection is more of an idea (mind) than an actual
reality. Unless we say that everything is already perfect in its mutability.

It's one of those words that I don't find very useful as it doesn't describe or
communicate anything. For example, you could say "this rose is perfect",
but that doesn't really tell me anything. Are there roses that aren't perfect???
What is the difference?

LeoRetilus
04-27-2010, 09:22 PM
Seth-Ra and myself discussed this, and have come to the conclusion that the search for perfection is a necessary motivation through life, but that it often gets in the way of actually living.

Thus the folly of youth ..."to come to conclusions" good thing God has not come to a conclusion about you or everything had absolved to dust already. At any rate sounds like something the real Lilith might say.

The one thing you will always here from anyone is to try to be your best, to try to be perfect. Many people take this to heart, and many people die trying. And still the majority,... billions more have died without even trying, this is not a good arguement, at least out of those few who have tried as they have invariably traveled the path less worn, some have achieved perfection and so who cares if it meant death, we all die anyhow, at least it would be for a purpose.

Listen we're alchemists therefore will should apply the idea of perfection to the prefect of alchemy and not some esoteric permutation of the word. Its what we are all trying to achieve its what happens when you perfect whats in your flask. But the whole experiment is facilitated through various states of imbalance,... ardent vive, search the meaning of that word, what it implys. In time maybe you will have revelations and come to see nature in its varying states of imbalance, volcanoes, earthquakes, glaciers, hot tropical jungles, frozen ice caps, do you not see the elements, fire,water, air and earth in these things as being in a state of imbalance, thus far from perfect. Perfection doesn't exist in nature, not yet, but it will at the end of time, when all forces achieve a state of balance and come to rest. Then the old heaven an earth will fall away and a new Jerusalem will appear,

I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and so had the sea. 2Then I saw New Jerusalem, that holy city, coming down from God in heaven. It was like a bride dressed in her wedding gown and ready to meet her husband.

3I heard a loud voice shout from the throne:

God's home is now with his people. He will live with them, and they will be his own. Yes, God will make his home among his people. 4He will wipe all tears from their eyes, and there will be no more death, suffering, crying, or pain. These things of the past are gone forever.

5Then the one sitting on the throne said:

I am making everything new. Write down what I have said. My words are true and can be trusted. 6Everything is finished! I am Alpha and Omega, [a] the beginning and the end. I will freely give water from the life-giving fountain to everyone who is thirsty. 7All who win the victory will be given these blessings. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 8But I will tell you what will happen to cowards and to everyone who is unfaithful or dirty-minded or who murders or is sexually immoral or uses witchcraft or worships idols or tells lies. They will be thrown into that lake of fire and burning sulfur. This is the second death.
The New Jerusalem
9I saw one of the seven angels who had the bowls filled with the seven last terrible troubles. The angel came to me and said, "Come on! I will show you the one who will be the bride and wife of the Lamb." 10Then with the help of the Spirit, he took me to the top of a very high mountain. There he showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down from God in heaven.

11The glory of God made the city bright. It was dazzling and crystal clear like a precious jasper stone. 12The city had a high and thick wall with twelve gates, and each one of them was guarded by an angel. On each of the gates was written the name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13Three of these gates were on the east, three were on the north, three more were on the south, and the other three were on the west. 14The city was built on twelve foundation stones. On each of the stones was written the name of one of the Lamb's twelve apostles.

15The angel who spoke to me had a gold measuring stick to measure the city and its gates and its walls. 16The city was shaped like a cube, because it was just as high as it was wide. When the angel measured the city, it was about fifteen hundred miles high and fifteen hundred miles wide. 17Then the angel measured the wall, and by our measurements it was about two hundred sixteen feet high.

18The wall was built of jasper, and [B]the city was made of pure gold, clear as crystal. 19Each of the twelve foundations was a precious stone. The first was jasper, [c] the second was sapphire, the third was agate, the fourth was emerald, 20the fifth was onyx, the sixth was carnelian, the seventh was chrysolite, the eighth was beryl, the ninth was topaz, the tenth was chrysoprase, the eleventh was jacinth, and the twelfth was amethyst. 21Each of the twelve gates was a solid pearl. The streets of the city were made of pure gold, clear as crystal. 22I did not see a temple there. The Lord God All-Powerful and the Lamb were its temple. 23And the city did not need the sun or the moon. The glory of God was shining on it, and the Lamb was its light.

24Nations will walk by the light of that city, and kings will bring their riches there. 25Its gates are always open during the day, and night never comes. 26The glorious treasures of nations will be brought into the city. 27But nothing unworthy will be allowed to enter. No one who is dirty-minded or who tells lies will be there. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life [d] will be in the city."

Perfection is only achieved through art and science, we hasten that balance in our flasks by removing the dross and balancing the four elements fire, water, air and earth with a fifth, the animating spirit. And so the philosophers stone is called a little world, a microcosm, a glimpse of the world to come, but the perfection of the world must be effected by mankind as a whole, he must strive for it or all is already lost. Remember as the kabbalah teaches "every human action here on earth affects the divine realm, either promoting or hindering the union of Shekhinah and her partner -- the Holy One, blessed be he"

Shekhinah is the earth , the realm of man, with each act of sin or evil she is pushed further away from her alignment with the middle pillar, with each act of caring and compassion she draws nearer to her eventual union with the holy one.


"Kabbalah assigns the negative or harsh aspects of God to the feminine emanations. The left side of the tree, Binah, Gevurah and Hod (understanding, judgement and majesty) are collective called the Pillar of Severity. The right side is referred to as the Pillar of Mercy and contains Chokmah, Hesed and Netzach ( wisdom, lovingkindness and splendor). These negative or harsh aspects of the left as well as the more positive aspect of the right flow into the Shekinah. If the side of Severity is more powerful than Mercy, then the Shekinah can fall into evil and associate with Samael. This imbalance occurs when Israel sins. These individual acts of the people affect the balance in the divine emanations. The Shekinah being the closest to the veil between the celestial and terrestrial realms is very vulnerable to the effects of sin. Samael is in a constant battle with Tiphareth and the Shekinah over her virtue. She sometimes fights him off with the help of the other Sephiroth; however is there is much sin, she cannot fight, but willingly gives into evil. It is through the commandments that the Sephiroth are empowered to over come evil. The Kabbalist attempt to empower the Shekinah in her fight against Samuel.

Shekinah is also the harlot and great desire of Samael the devil. Samael has Lilith as his consort, but wants the Shekinah. He wants to defile her and steal her from Tiphareth. Thus the battle for her goes on between Tiphareth and Samael. The Shekinah has no, I repeat, no ideas or thoughts that are her own. She is completely at the mercy of the things below her and things above. If Israel is good, the Shekinah is uniting with her beloved, if it is bad and full of sin, then she is in Samael's bed as the harlot. The Shekinah does not control her destiny in anyway.

The Zohar explains sin through the original sin of Adam, the primordial man. Adam worshipped and partook of the Shekinah alone, and removed her from the rest of the Sephiroth, disrupting the union of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (the Shekinah) and the Tree of Life (Tiphareth). It was then that the Shekinah was first driven into exile with Adam.[12]

"YHVH Elohim expelled him from the Garden of Eden....He drove out et Adam." (Z54)

(Et is a Kabbalistic code name for the Shekinah: as Divine speech, she spells out the entire Hebrew alphabet from Aleph to Tau).[13]

Perhaps the most visible Kabbalistic influence on Modern Jewish ritual and theology is the sacred marriage of the Sabbath Bride and God, Shekinah and Tiphareth respectively. The union of the Shekinah and Tiphareth is perhaps the most important quest of the Kabbalists and the Magician. Until the Shekinah is united with her lover Tiphareth, sin will abound in the world and she-and consequently Israel-will remain in exile. It is the 5=6 formula of the magician, the union of the microcosm and the macrocosm. She is the Vision of Adonai. And the union of the two is the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel."-Soror Shekinah

And thus the Hermetic axiom is mirrored here as well, in that we strive to unite that which is Below -Shekinah to that which is Above- Ain Sof

I don't know if Basil was a Kabalist as well but he says the same here in his Tweleve Keys, a cornerstone of alchemy: "When I had emptied to the dregs the cup of human suffering, I was led to consider the wretchedness of this world, and the fearful consequences of our first parents' disobedience. Then I saw that there was no hope of repentance for mankind, that they were getting worse day by day, and that for their impenitence God's everlasting punishment was hanging over them; and I made haste to withdraw myself from the evil world, to bid farewell to it, and to devote myself to the service of God.

When I had spent some years at the monastery, I found that after I had performed my work and my daily devotions I still had some time on my hands. This I did not wish to pass in idleness, lest my evil thoughts should lead me into new sins; and so I determined to use it for the study and investigation of those natural secrets by which God has shadowed out eternal things. So I read a great many books in our monastery written in olden times by philosophers who had pursued the same study, and was thereby stimulated to a more ardent desire of knowing that which they also knew. Though I did not make much progress at first, yet at last God granted my earnest prayer, and opened my eyes that I might see what others had seen before me."

Andro
04-27-2010, 10:51 PM
Manifest Creation is and always will be imperfect.

In an imperfect manifestation, the closest thing to perfection would be Or-Gazm. (spelling intentional)

And sexual orgasm is only one of many manifestations, not necessarily the most high/intense form of it.

The Hebrew word for Light is Or/Aor. The Hebrew root for pruning/trimming/cutting but also for over-the top (too much, exagerated, etc...) is G Z M.

The Hebrew word for 'Fleece' is GEZ , spelled 'GZ' (with no vowel), or GIZAH, or GEZEM for any trimmed/pruned Matter. (same root letters G and Z).

Aor-Gez / Aor Gezem / etc... Make your own connections :)

I have no idea, or better said, no conscious MEMORY of how it would feel to experience OneSelf in a constant state of Or-Gazm.
But even 'constant'/'permanent' Or-Gazms fade into manifestation eventually...

Nevertheless, we DO get to taste one variation or another from time to time... Or even better said, 'Between Time And Time' :)

Seth-Ra
04-27-2010, 10:53 PM
Quite a mouthful there LR, in short, id say i agree for the most part.

What i meant in my earlier post by a "well lived life" (and also stated definitions may vary) is to do what you know to do that is just, holy, right. Bring the union about in self, pick that road which leads to perfection - do the good work, and reach the goal of perfection at the end. ;)

Also, nice Bible quoting, Revelation is one of my favorite books in there. :cool:

In short, if perfection cannot be grasped, or manifested, then the Stone does not exist, but since we hear it can, and see the proof in the art, then obviously it can, and that is what we reach for.

I think Lillith's point here though (correct me if im wrong, ofcourse) was to point out that people have a tendency to lose their footing: getting so focused on the end goal, to miss the keys and the joy of the journey.

If you only look at the finish line, you may stumble in the hole before ya get there. ;)


~Seth-Ra