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Aleilius
06-25-2010, 11:57 PM
1. Take as much plant matter as one pleases (In these images I used 34 grams of spent skullcap leaf from which a tincture of extracted), and char it with fire until the matter resembles black charcoal.

2. Take this, and char more until a dark gray color is achieved. The ash should weight roughly 15-20% of the original weight. One can char the matter to whiteness, but this is not necessary as the salts will extract fine at this stage (please note: if one does take this to the white stage that some amount of salt will be volatilized, i.e. product will be lost).

3. Weigh this dark gray ash. It should weigh roughly 15-20% of the original volume. I was left with roughly 4-5 grams. This step is optional, but it's good for data collection & analysis purposes.

4. Add acetic acid, and watch as an effervescence occurs. Carbon dioxide is being released. Most salts in the ash are in their carbonate forms. Stir well, and continue adding until no more effervescence occurs. Add about 10-20% more by volume acetic acid for good measure. The salts are now being converted to their acetate forms.

5. Bring to a boil, and let it heat for a while. Filter through a good filter, and repeat the extraction process two more times (add more acetic acid, heat, filter, etc). Pool all the filtrates together. Multiple filtration might be needed if one uses a low quality, or a porous filter (i.e. coffee filters).

6. Next is the precipitation phase. This involves simply basifying with an alkali to the appropriate pH. A dilute solution of sodium hydroxide is most often used, or alternatively one can use sodium carbonate (potassium hydroxide/carbonate may also be used).

7. Let settle, decant, and wash two times with a brine solution.

Corresponding images may be viewed here: http://www.vitriolum.net/index.php/our-work/45-the-work-of-aleilius/100-plant-ash-precipitate.html

Aleilius
09-27-2010, 03:33 AM
I personally believe this to be one of the safest methods to acquire m-states in their natural state. The process is easy to carry out, and starts with ash. One can use ash from a wood burner, or from their fireplace.

Plant ash precipitate & sea salt precipitate are two of the safest methods out their for acquiring these materials if you're a novice. I do not recommend leeching from various rocks, minerals, limestone, etc. There are too many possibly poisonous impurities that would arise if you are not careful with manipulating the pH. With these methods one can acquire these materials with very little toxic heavy metal byproducts that might result from overshooting the pH during precipitation.

I have performed two other works on this specific subject of plant ash. They may be viewed here:

1. Rose Petal Ash Precipitate (http://www.vitriolum.net/index.php/our-work/45-the-work-of-aleilius/101-rose-petal-ash-precipitate.html)
2. The Spagyrics of Plant Ash - The Dual Salts - Ash Precipitate Per Se (http://www.vitriolum.net/index.php/our-work/45-the-work-of-aleilius/107-the-dual-salts-of-plant-ash.html)

Please all, if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask!

theFool
09-27-2010, 07:44 AM
Nice process Aleilius, thanks for sharing. Now I understand why digestion of a tincture upon its ashes is necessary to form a spagyric medicine. Probably those m-states dissolve into the alcohol.

By the way, has anyone noticed that the ashes of wood behave magnetically? I have observed also melissa plant ashes to attract to magnet. It is due to their m-state content probably.

Aleilius
09-27-2010, 11:59 PM
Nice process Aleilius, thanks for sharing.
Hi TP, no problem! It was a joy working with these processes, and specifically, I thought the spagyrics of plant ash was really quite cool!

theFool
10-02-2012, 12:58 PM
I've been trying again this process on melissa plant. From the ORMUS viewpoint, through this process, you isolate the ORMUS of the plant. I will try to draw an analogy with the alchemical method.

Imagine that you do it as the alchemists say: Take the plant, burn it, calcine it to whiteness and dissolve it in water.
When you calcine it to whiteness, all the carbon is burnt, leaving behind only inorganic salts. The vast majority of them is K2CO3 (and a little bit of soda). When you dissolve it in water, the pH rises to around 11, because of K2CO3. This will precipitate all the ORMUS out. They will be precipitated by themselves, no need to perform any "ormistry" on it. Now, if you continue by filtering the precipitate out (as some recipes want you to do), you throw away all the good stuff. Evaporation will give you fairly clean K2CO3.

I don't believe that this is what alchemists wanted to do when speaking of the plant Salt. My opinion it that the Salt is the precipitate. Keep and dry the precipitate.
You may try to avoid the dilemma by keeping the calcined plant "as is", without any dissolution in water. You will keep the ORMUS of the plant but you will have also a lot of unwanted K2CO3.

Anyway, back to my experiment. Some observations.

1) The ashes of melissa plant are magnetic. I have calcined the plant in porcelain crucible, taking precautions not to contaminate it with iron. When the ashes turn to whiteness, they become magnetic. An explanation could be that the iron compounds of the plant are reduced to iron metal by the plant's carbon and the high heat.

2) The precipitate obtained from the plant, when ingested, has effects. Its strength is comparable to sea salt ORMUS.

Andro
10-02-2012, 01:14 PM
Did you manage to calcine to whiteness in 'one go'?

I only managed to get to gray with the first calcination, so I had to dissolve/filter/evaporate a few more times before getting the really white salt.

What set-up did you use for calcination to whiteness in just one pass? Temperature range? Time?

Was the white salt close to its melting point?

It could indeed be a very interesting idea to experiment with using just the precipitate for the imbibitions that follow in the 'classical' spagyrical process.
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theFool
10-02-2012, 02:55 PM
Did you manage to calcine to whiteness in 'one go'?
It was not calcined to whiteness because when I filtered it, there were black "bits" on the filter. I try to blow air on it all the time it is into fire. Air speeds the calcination of the black bits.



I only managed to get to gray with the first calcination, so I had to dissolve/filter/evaporate a few more times before getting the really white salt.
What was left on your filter? It was only black matter or you left behind a white precipitate also? Have in mind that this white precipitate, if formed, is the plant ormus I am talking about. This precipitate may form even if you don't want, because of the high pH in your solution (the pH gets high because plant ash is potassium carbonate). If you filter it out, you will get clean K2CO3 afterwars. Maybe we are not after this only ..



What set-up did you use for calcination to whiteness in just one pass? Temperature range? Time?
Was the white salt close to its melting point?
It was calcined on a gas burner for an hour. The salt was not going to melt. My fire could barely make the vessel a bit red.




It could indeed be a very interesting idea to experiment with using just the precipitate for the imbibitions that follow in the 'classical' spagyrical process.
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That's why I post it here for people doing spagyrics. Maybe you find something interesting in this precipitate.

Andro
10-02-2012, 03:40 PM
This reminds me a little of Bacstrom's 'American Adept' letter, about a work with Urine.

According to that letter, what is 'imbibed' with the Oil and incubated is the precipitate, not the soluble salts.

Interesting...

theFool
10-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Sometimes you can see floating clouds in urine, formed after putrefaction, that resemble much the "ormus" precipitate. Ormus usually needs high pH in order to become visible. When urine putrefacts, it creates ammonia which is a base, raising the pH.

theFool
10-02-2012, 07:13 PM
Some analysis showed that the plant ash precipitate contains with great probability calcium carbonate. It creates a precipitate with H2SO4, even when the pH is around 1 (due to H2SO4).

There is one more part of this precipitate which I can separate it out of the calcium carbonate, by pH manipulation methods. This precipitate dissolves in HCl acid. However, when I add H2SO4, it does not form any precipitate. Instead, it is bubbling with every drop of H2SO4, even when the pH is at around 1.

What element (found in plants) can have an insoluble carbonate salt but a soluble sulfate salt :confused:

theFool
10-03-2012, 11:34 AM
What element (found in plants) can have an insoluble carbonate salt but a soluble sulfate salt :confused:
The mystery salt is magnesium carbonate. It is the same salt that carries the ormus from sea water.
The next question is: where is the ormus residing? Is it in the calcium carbonate, in the magnesium carbonate or in both?

Andro
10-03-2012, 12:05 PM
My personal bet would lean a bit more towards Calcium/Lime compounds...

From 'Compass of the Wise':

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/SeparatorCompassQuote.jpg

We could also read some insights in The Mysteries in Limestone (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2112-the-mysteries-in-limestone) thread.

Salazius
10-03-2012, 06:28 PM
Every single alive being as a Separator furnished into the starting package :)

sacredchemist33
08-22-2014, 08:53 PM
If your source material contains no heavy metals how can you precipitate toxic metals by over/under shooting ph swings? And isn't it foolish to be precipitating unknown materials for ingestion?

theFool
08-23-2014, 12:37 PM
If your source material contains no heavy metals how can you precipitate toxic metals by over/under shooting ph swings? How is this question connected with this thread? Without quotation of previous posts, it seems very general and out of topic.

bleeding yolk
08-26-2014, 09:01 PM
.......this is not the method intended when adding the salt of ashes back to the spirits in order to create a proper spagyric....or is it ???........

Breemar
08-27-2014, 02:47 AM
The last few postings seem to be rather random, unconnected.

SacredChemist33, banned? Anyway, yes, I think overshooting is no problem as long as the base materials don't contain toxic heavy metals, but, and this will answer your 2nd question, you never know if there may be such metals in things like ashes.

Working with certain ashes however does both lowering the PH due to the formation of potassium hydroxide (note: potassium = pot ashes) , as well as providing certain Ormus Elements, depending on the sort of ashes. Compared to cellular fibres, like saw dust etc., ashes are broken down to a much finer grain and are therefor a better base material, even when some of the Ormus was lost during the burning process.

At least I think so.

One thing that should be tested IMHO are plants that are growing near the sea coast, or even in the sea. Like Cocos Nuts.

True Initiate
04-04-2015, 04:35 PM
The mystery salt is magnesium carbonate. It is the same salt that carries the ormus from sea water.
The next question is: where is the ormus residing? Is it in the calcium carbonate, in the magnesium carbonate or in both?

I will point out that iron and magnesium compounds form Chlorophyll needed for photosynthesis, which allows plants to absorb energy from light. This maybe explains from where ORMUS originates, that is Light.

theFool
05-03-2015, 06:41 PM
One more observation. Digest plant ashes in HCl, they turn into a green solution. Then continue by precipitating at high pH (~13ph, NaOH) all the contaminants and filter them out (as "method 4" of ormus). Then bring the pH low with HCl and add K2CO3. Some salts will precipitate out. Filter them and keep the clean solution. Give it a good boil and it will turn "milky" revealing a lot of salts (similar things happen with in DSS). It is difficult to isolate those salts as they redissolve into solution when it gets colder. One could evaporate to dryiness and then add water again, they will not dissolve again. Test the presence of ormus by dissolving them in HCl and see how the color behaves. Even a tiny amount (some specks of them can prove potent.

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/13/27/64/97/planta10.png