PDA

View Full Version : Textual analysis of alchemical texts



vega33
07-24-2010, 11:55 PM
http://www.online-utility.org/text/analyzer.jsp

Analysis of top phrases in a text.

Try analysing say, http://www.levity.com/alchemy/newchem3.html (or http://www.levity.com/alchemy/newchem1.html the first treatise) and look at the top phrases/words. Some interesting surprises appear.


Some top phrases containing 5 words (without punctuation marks) Occurencies
the pores of the earth 4
the heart of the sea 4
the centre of the earth 3
of the sages and the 3
that which is less pure 3
the sulphur of the sages 3
the seed of all things 3

Helps to identify common themes (for example, repetition of a phrase). Send likes to talk about the center of things, or the heart of things, or the pores of the earth, not only in this document but others.

There are other, more complex analysis tools available that reveal more interesting stuff.

vega33
07-25-2010, 12:05 AM
You can find also the texts that certain authors preferred. Analysis of Dwellings of the Philosophers, for instance, mentioned Cyrano de Bergerac 6 times, and mentioned "The Key of the Great Work" multiple times as well, also the text known as "The Light coming by itself out of the Darkness". Finding where these references occur further elucidate what Fulcanelli found important... for instance one of the references to La Lumiere is this quote:


"It is in light’s nature", said the author of a famous book (11), "to not be able to appear to our eyes without being clothed with a body of some kind, and this body must also be appropriate to receiving light; therefore where light is there must necessarily also be the vehicle of this light. Here is the easiest means to not err. Look then, with the light of your spirit, for the light clothed with darkness, and learn from it that the most vile of all subjects in the ignoramus’ opinion".

The footnote references the book.

Andro
07-25-2010, 08:27 AM
the most vile of all subjects

Let's make a list, then...

What are the most vile subjects known to us?

And 'vile' - from what perspective?

Stinky, dirty and poisonous? Disgusting? Treacherous? 'Immoral'?

Vile - Villain - The Adversary?

Ghislain
07-26-2010, 04:01 AM
Main Entry: vile
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: offensive, horrible

abandoned, abject, appalling, bad, base, coarse, contemptible, corrupt, debased, degenerate,
depraved, despicable, dirty, disgraceful, disgusting, evil, filthy, foul, horrid, humiliating, ignoble,
immoral, impure, iniquitous, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, nasty, nauseating, nefarious,
noxious, perverted, repellent, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, shocking, sickening, sinful, sleazy*,
stinking, ugly, vicious, vulgar, wicked, worthless, wretched

Main Entry: abominable
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: awful, detestable

abhorrent, atrocious, awful, bad, base, beastly, contemptible, cursed, despicable, disgusting, foul,
grim, grody, gross*, hairy*, hateful, heinous, hellish, horrible, horrid, loathsome, lousy, nauseating,
obnoxious, odious, offensive, repellent, reprehensible, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, rotten,
sleazy*, stinking, terrible, vile, wretched

There are many other entries...e.g.

Main Entry: bad
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: immoral

Main Entry: base
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: vulgar, low

Main Entry: beastly
Part of Speech: adverb
Definition: savage; vulgar

The list goes on and on Source (http://thesaurus.com/browse/vile)/85 entries

Needle in a haystack?

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
07-26-2010, 07:27 AM
Main Entry: vile
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: offensive, horrible

abandoned, abject, appalling, bad, base, coarse, contemptible, corrupt, debased, degenerate,
depraved, despicable, dirty, disgraceful, disgusting, evil, filthy, foul, horrid, humiliating, ignoble,
immoral, impure, iniquitous, loathsome, low, mean, miserable, nasty, nauseating, nefarious,
noxious, perverted, repellent, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, shocking, sickening, sinful, sleazy*,
stinking, ugly, vicious, vulgar, wicked, worthless, wretched

Main Entry: abominable
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: awful, detestable

abhorrent, atrocious, awful, bad, base, beastly, contemptible, cursed, despicable, disgusting, foul,
grim, grody, gross*, hairy*, hateful, heinous, hellish, horrible, horrid, loathsome, lousy, nauseating,
obnoxious, odious, offensive, repellent, reprehensible, repugnant, repulsive, revolting, rotten,
sleazy*, stinking, terrible, vile, wretched

There are many other entries...e.g.

Main Entry: bad
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: immoral

Main Entry: base
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: vulgar, low

Main Entry: beastly
Part of Speech: adverb
Definition: savage; vulgar

The list goes on and on Source (http://thesaurus.com/browse/vile)/85 entries

Needle in a haystack?

Ghislain

In almost every context that I have found where it was mentioned as being a vile subject the word contemptible followed, and IMO since you found it as a synonym it is of the highest import to place focus on the context of its use in this way, for instance..." a vile and contemptible subject encountered in the mines ".... now why would a mineral subject encountered in a mine be held in such high contempt? Because it looked like something it was not.......gold. Imagine you go looking for gold and find something shiny and glittery and start picking and digging for it only to find that it crumbles like glass instead of being soft and malleable when struck with a hammer, ....i.e. fool's gold instead of real gold, among miners iron pyrite and brassy marcasites are held in very high contempt even to this day.

Andro
07-26-2010, 12:23 PM
This is a personal experience, so make of it what you will:

Most Celestial Bodies are living entities.

During my 'travels', I had the chance to directly communicate with some of the planetary entities in our system.

It turns out there is one planet that all the other planets kind of 'despise', a planet that is considered 'of the lowest kind' and pretty much an outcast among the other planets in our system.

There is only one other planet who has a certain 'weekness' for this outcast planet, but in general it is almost unanimously held in contempt by all the others.

FYI.

Ghislain
07-26-2010, 02:00 PM
Androgynus

Could we perhaps have the name of this said planet and that of its champion?

Ghislain

Andro
07-26-2010, 02:12 PM
Could we perhaps have the name of this said planet and that of its champion?

The planet held in most contempt by the other planets is Mars.

The only planet with a 'weekness' for this 'Black Sheep' of our system is Venus.

Salazius
07-26-2010, 02:41 PM
I just come to take Mars tincture ! :)
Bah, if I'm despised, I know why.:p

Thanks Andro for your infos about the contempt of the other planets concerning Mars.

I just remark that this forum is under the sign of Mars & Pluton since a moment now.

Andro
07-26-2010, 03:14 PM
I just remark that this forum is under the sign of Mars & Pluton

Mars is the current 'SlaughterHouse'/'BattleField'.

Pluto is Death/Rebirth/Regeneration/Transformation.

Traditionally, Pluto is regarded as the higher octave of Mars.

We'll have to see where all this is going ;)

Salazius
07-26-2010, 04:36 PM
I said that because after all marcassites, pyrites, and iron things related, plus all silicates and plutonian rocks ...

We also had a clash, absolutely, maybe linked I don't know.

After all, the Highest part of Mars is the Triomphe of LOVE in all its beauty.

You feel the POWER of LOVE !!


The power of love is a curious thing
make a one man weep, make another man sing
Change a hawk to a little white dove
more than a feeling
that's the power of love
Tougher than diamonds, rich like cream
Stronger and harder than a bad girl's dream
make a bad one good make a wrong one right
power of love that keeps you home at night

Joy
07-26-2010, 08:32 PM
mars ... the lowest kind .... ???? all the life energy, the fire to keep on moving,
the will and concentration, may be mars holds a difficult place in your birthchart,
this way I can understand it ... there is no low only .... every planet has its gifts and
danger, all depends how you look at them.

Andro
07-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Maybe Mars holds a difficult place in your birthchart,
this way I can understand it.

Joy,

Mars is very well placed in my chart. Powerful, but kept in check.

And, you're supposed to make your projections on inferior metals, not on the messenger's birth chart :rolleyes:

I've reported the direct personal experience/communication as I had it.

There are inner system dynamics that must be experienced 'first hand' to be understood.

I did not report my personal position or opinion regarding Mars, but the way it is viewed by other planetary entities.

You are of course free to make of it what you wish to make of it.

:cool:

horticult
07-26-2010, 11:58 PM
Ok, so we are informed that celestial bodies have some """prejudices""" as living entities should have. :D

These are commonly based on some """reasons""", can we hear about them?

LeoRetilus
07-27-2010, 12:05 AM
Familiarity also breeds contempt.......hence I could see where a subject so familiar and contemptous, i.e "vile" could fall out of "favor", especially among the royal chemists/archemists who were looking for mineral subjects of higher estimable value, not simple ores of iron. Expounding on the subject Fulcanelli tells us in Dwellings......"....Therefore the affinity establishing the profound chemical identity of these bodies, it is logical to think that the same spirit, used in the same conditions, will bring about the same effects. This is what happens with iron and gold which are bound by a close affinity. When Mexican prospectors come to discover a sandy, very red earth composed mostly of iron oxide, they conclude that gold is not very far away. Consequently they regard this red earth as the matrix and the mother of gold, and the best indication of a nearby gold vein. This fact seems rather unusual, given the physical differences of these metals. In the category of common metallic bodies, gold is the rarest among them; iron, by contrast, is certainly the most common, the one that is found everywhere, not only in mines where it forms enormous and numerous deposits but also disseminated on the very surface of the ground. Clay owes to iron its special coloration, sometimes yellow when iron is found divided as a hydrate, sometimes red when it is in the form of sequioxide, a color which is further intensified by baking (as in bricks, tiles and pottery). Of all the classified ores, iron pyrite is the most common and the best known. The black ferruginous masses in variously sized balls, in shell-like agglomerations, in nodules, are often encountered in fields, on the sides of paths, in chalky terrain. Country children often play with these marcasites which show a fibrous crystalline radiating texture when they are broken. Sometimes they contain small quantities of gold"

vega33
07-27-2010, 06:16 AM
I think everyone is missing a couple of points here.

Firstly, this thread was about the possibility of using textual analysis/data mining techniques to clarify alchemical texts and provide insight into the nature of their authors... not about any specific alchemical text. Mentioning Fulcanelli's quoting of La Lumiere was just an afterthought.

Secondly, it seems obvious that when the author of La Lumiere asks us to look for the light clothed in darkness...Darkness is the absence or absorption of light. All visible frequencies absorbed. Black, the color of putrefaction which begins the magistery, is a *generation*, a drawing of that received light within, as the previous "light"of spirit has already left the body. White, the color of the first stone, means such a generation has already occured. Therefore, when Leo speaks of marcasites, or others speak of galena, or silicates, these are specified materials, and what we should really be interested in is achieving a supernatural generation, and the process for acheiving that out of the dark matter of the Stone.

LeoRetilus
07-27-2010, 07:40 AM
Firstly you need to realize that 1.) we are speaking to the "textual analysis" of the word "vile" and the context in which it is used and meant in "alchemical texts " therefore all the subsequent posts regarding iron are within the scope of this thread, as you defined it, therfore we are.... "data mining". 2.)Secondly we are not speaking of the use of particulars by their virtue alone if not of a process with the use of iron or its marcasites, that in fact Fulcanelli describes, and gives credit to Basil Valientine for, that is the use of iron as a magnet, since it holds and attracts the "spirit" and its espousing to "venus", since she comprehends him, e.g. through copper and its transfer to a more suitable body, i.e. luna since the body of venus is "leporous", if you have studied alchemy for any length of time you would realize this is a meme often spoke of and veiled in much symbolism and allegory, hence someone went to great extents to protect a knowledge of virtue.

vega33
07-28-2010, 05:52 AM
Firstly you need to realize that 1.) we are speaking to the "textual analysis" of the word "vile" and the context in which it is used and meant in "alchemical texts " therefore all the subsequent posts regarding iron are within the scope of this thread, as you defined it, therfore we are.... "data mining". 2.)Secondly we are not speaking of the use of particulars by their virtue alone if not of a process with the use of iron or its marcasites, that in fact Fulcanelli describes, and gives credit to Basil Valientine for, that is the use of iron as a magnet, since it holds and attracts the "spirit" and its espousing to "venus", since she comprehends him, e.g. through copper and its transfer to a more suitable body, i.e. luna since the body of venus is "leporous", if you have studied alchemy for any length of time you would realize this is a meme often spoke of and veiled in much symbolism and allegory, hence someone went to great extents to protect a knowledge of virtue.

The problem is that the word "vile" in the text, were it an occult blind, would no longer be, since the original text was Latin, and it was translated into Italian verse, French, and finally English. So while we could speculate vile referred to an anagram of "live", this would be incorrect as it was not the original text.

Secondly, the prima materia, the subject of the sages, the second matter, and so on, are never spoken of directly, only in allegory, but for a reason. They are trying to explain something about the process of natural generation, as Sendivogius pointed out. In reality, such a thing as "iron pyrites" or "a marcasite" does not exist in nature, these are human classifications of a process of evolution undertaken by Nature. Therefore, to say directly to someone in a treatise that "marcasite" was used in some procedure would be wrong and could give the person false information - after all, how many different types of marcasites are there?

Adepts tell us to study nature and natural generation because they want us to understand this fact, and to understand that generation of one thing will differ from that of another. No 2 marcasites are the same, but you can describe a similar process to how they are created. By comparing this process to the generation of other things beneath the earth, they hope to present to us a general theory of generation, which can be extended to the Stone.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Andro
07-28-2010, 07:35 AM
I recommend an Astrological keyword search for 'Mars'.

I doesn't need to refer directly to iron compounds.

Mars is a combination of qualities, and does not have to refer to a specific matter.

LeoRetilus
07-28-2010, 08:50 AM
The problem is that the word "vile" in the text, were it an occult blind, would no longer be, since the original text was Latin, and it was translated into Italian verse, French, and finally English. So while we could speculate vile referred to an anagram of "live", this would be incorrect as it was not the original text.

Secondly, the prima materia, the subject of the sages, the second matter, and so on, are never spoken of directly, only in allegory, but for a reason. They are trying to explain something about the process of natural generation, as Sendivogius pointed out. In reality, such a thing as "iron pyrites" or "a marcasite" does not exist in nature, these are human classifications of a process of evolution undertaken by Nature. Therefore, to say directly to someone in a treatise that "marcasite" was used in some procedure would be wrong and could give the person false information - after all, how many different types of marcasites are there?

Adepts tell us to study nature and natural generation because they want us to understand this fact, and to understand that generation of one thing will differ from that of another. No 2 marcasites are the same, but you can describe a similar process to how they are created. By comparing this process to the generation of other things beneath the earth, they hope to present to us a general theory of generation, which can be extended to the Stone.

Hope this helps to clarify.

There is only one marcasite its chemical formula is FeS2, iron sulphite, aka atrament romanum, vitriol...understanding how and why these black ferringous nodules grow in clayish earths in chalky alkaline, "fat" terrians is a key to understanding nature of which I am no stranger to its direct study and its processes and the revelations that God has encoded therein for the discernment of the lucky and studious philosopher, and yes there are treatises and not the lesser ones that describes its use directly, if you know them. However once again chemistry has no basis in alchemy and the stone contains no traces of iron or sulphur or any other chemical, it is merely used in a process to attract and condense the aetheric fire, the one and only true subject of the stone, so to search the periodic table for the prima matera is to search in vain. Although archemic research and work with metallic decompositions and recovering the "sulfur" of metals is useful as the principles applied therein are employed at a certain stage when the stone(in alchemical works) is specified to the metallic kingdom upon creation of the philosophic mercury. But once again understanding and potentializing and over-potentializing the sulfurs and mercuries in metals by their volatilization, sublimation, extraction and subsequent transfer to gold and lesser metals leads to the necessary revelations on how natures processes accomplishes the same work within the earth, as iron makes its way towards gold.

But unfortunately for most these revelations will continue to be lost in translation as is your understanding of the word vile, which I tried to clarify.

solomon levi
07-28-2010, 05:00 PM
Greetings all!

I was curious about the relation between the phrases about being despised
and the stone the builders rejected... if these phrases point to the same thing.
I did a little researching and we see in the New Testament that Jesus
quotes the Old Testament book of Psalms. So where in modern terms we
take Jesus to be the stone the builders (initially) rejected, the book of
Psalms is speaking to/of Adonai.
So I was led to various names of god and interesting enough, I did find
Mars there. The names El and Shaddai (individually) were both used by the Akkadians to refer to their god Amurru, aka Martu, who is the
Sumerian Marduk... that is, the roman Mars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amurru


I'm not saying it's a strong connection, but at least one does exist.


Leo, I like what you said about fool's gold being despised. I hadn't thought
of that one.
And for the greater part I am in agreement with your assessment.
I still haven't been led to the sulfur/marcasite path, but I can see it,
understand it. We are very close to the same work. The oleum silicis in the
way i've seen assumes a similar role of the sulfur in your path. Interesting
that both can be called "vitriol/vitri-oil".
Mars is certainly incorporated in my path as well - I just haven't seen a
need to get it from marcasites as there already exist iron-rich clays,
bolus armeniac for one.

sol

LeoRetilus
07-28-2010, 07:25 PM
The oleum silicis in the
way i've seen assumes a similar role of the sulfur in your path. Interesting
that both can be called "vitriol/vitri-oil".
Mars is certainly incorporated in my path as well - I just haven't seen a
need to get it from marcasites as there already exist iron-rich clays,
bolus armeniac for one.

sol

It is just my opinion and intuition , but I believe that silica is the vitrification of water under the power of the universal spirit, as I have seen in caves, the vapor that descends and that attaches itself to cave walls, that first appears as a kind of niter, transforms to a crystalline silica salt upon meeting water, as this receives the element of fire through direct sunlight it begins to redden and transform into iron, therefore I believe the same spirit that is vitrified within the crystalline lattice of the silica is responsible for the initial formation and subsequent growth of the nodules in this red clayish earth as silica comprise the majority constituent of the clay, the matrix of the mother of gold. I have taken small, young nodules and broken them open and they are still mostly clayish and grainy inside, one can still see the sandy earth within, however the older larger ones when cracked open reveal a mostly metalloid-crystalline composition in a precise geometrical formation, where before it was mostly chaotic and disorganized. Additionally to support my hypothesis there are written in certain alchemical texts that it is one of the powers of the universal spirit once condensed into a tangible fluid that one drop can vitrify an entire glass of water into crystal...what kind? I believe silica, in the form of quartz, so then from a naturalistic point of view maybe that would tend to explain why gold when found in its native state is always found embedded near or in quartz and also IMO lays the basis for the geode process . So IMHO the reason to get it from the marcasite nodules is that the spirit is more concentrated there than in the surrounding red clay.

Additionaly in Dwellings once again, Fulcanelli states and my work has verified the following:
"In the spagyrical treatment of iron, the energetic reaction of acids with a similar affinity for the metal is used to conquer its cohesion. Ordinarily, one starts with iron pyrites or with metal reduced to filings. In this last case we recommend prudence and precautions. If one uses pyrites, it will suffice to crush it as finely as possible and to redden it with fire once, while mixing it vigorously. Once it is cooled down, it is introduced into a large flask with four times its weight of aqua regia and the mixture is brought to a boil. After an hour or two it is allowed to rest, the liquid is decanted; then one pours onto the magma a similar quantity of fresh aqua regia, which is made to boil as before. It is necessary to continue the boiling and the decanting until the pyrites appear white at the bottom of the container. Then take all the extracts, filter them on fiberglass, and concentrate them through a slow distillation in a tubular retort. When only about one-third of the original volume is left, open the tubulature and pour in successive fractions a certain quantity of pure 66% sulphuric acid (60 grams for a total volume of extract coming from 500 grams of pyrite). It is then distilled until dry and, after having changed receivers, the temperature is progressively increased. You will see some oily drops distill, red as blood, which represent the sulphurous tincture, and later a beautiful white sublimate which clings to the top and the neck in the form of a crystalline down. The sublimate is an authentic mercury salt --- called by certain archemists mercury of vitriol--- which is easily reduced to liquid mercury through the agency of iron filings, quick lime, or anhydrous potassium carbonate. Furthermore, it is easy to immediately ensure that this sublimate contains the specific mercury of iron by rubbing its crystals on a sliver of copper: the amalgam immediately appears and the metal seems silvery.

As for iron filings, they yield a golden rather than red colored sulphur instead of being red, and some --- a very little bit --- of mercury sublimate. The process is the same but with the slight difference,...."

Hence one can choose to work with iron or metals reduced and refined by man in various metallic decompositions, in my case it was steel wool rather than filings, then dissolve in sulfuric acid to its solely chemical exposition and oxidise it and work it in the same way as the nodules, but you will always yield less mercury sublimate than if you choose the matters that have more spirit concentrated in them, because once iron is taken from nature and reduced, i.e. melted, the spirit is lost, and the whole point of alchemical fusions(flammel path-transfer the sulfur or mercury of iron to copper and on to silver or gold) is to render that spirit to a body less refractory, so that it stands fast in the fire.

Sorry for the long winded response

Ghislain
07-29-2010, 04:55 AM
beautiful white sublimate which clings to the top and the neck in the form of a crystalline down Could that be what is happening here Leo?

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=177

Ghislain

vega33
07-29-2010, 06:30 AM
Greetings all!

I was curious about the relation between the phrases about being despised
and the stone the builders rejected... if these phrases point to the same thing.
I did a little researching and we see in the New Testament that Jesus
quotes the Old Testament book of Psalms. So where in modern terms we
take Jesus to be the stone the builders (initially) rejected, the book of
Psalms is speaking to/of Adonai.


If you read Vitruvius on Roman architecture, you'll perhaps find something else regarding stones weathered by certain types of erosion which were unfit for building with, which cast light (pardon the pun) on this phrase.

vega33
07-29-2010, 06:45 AM
There is only one marcasite its chemical formula is FeS2, iron sulphite, aka atrament romanum, vitriol...understanding how and why these black ferringous nodules grow in clayish earths in chalky alkaline, "fat" terrians is a key to understanding nature of which I am no stranger to its direct study and its processes and the revelations that God has encoded therein for the discernment of the lucky and studious philosopher, and yes there are treatises and not the lesser ones that describes its use directly, if you know them. However once again chemistry has no basis in alchemy and the stone contains no traces of iron or sulphur or any other chemical, it is merely used in a process to attract and condense the aetheric fire, the one and only true subject of the stone, so to search the periodic table for the prima matera is to search in vain. Although archemic research and work with metallic decompositions and recovering the "sulfur" of metals is useful as the principles applied therein are employed at a certain stage when the stone(in alchemical works) is specified to the metallic kingdom upon creation of the philosophic mercury. But once again understanding and potentializing and over-potentializing the sulfurs and mercuries in metals by their volatilization, sublimation, extraction and subsequent transfer to gold and lesser metals leads to the necessary revelations on how natures processes accomplishes the same work within the earth, as iron makes its way towards gold.

But unfortunately for most these revelations will continue to be lost in translation as is your understanding of the word vile, which I tried to clarify.

So Leo, have you ever seen a marcasite of pure FeS2?

The reason I ask is that FeS2 is a chemical formula... alone it means NOTHING.

In the real world of geology, with which I am also familiar as you are, things are never that simple. You may have molecules of FeS2 arranged in various lattice structures, with some trace elements, but always the structure will be different due to the conditions prevalent at the formation of the rock.

Secondly, you should ask where does that iron and that sulphur come from, and why does it occur together? Moreover why does it hold together? People often say like charges repel, yet metals and other minerals have this odd habit of grouping together. Why?

Secondly, you mention the sulfurs and the mercuries, but you refuse to define them. Without defining them, there is no common ground for discussion, especially in regards a theory of their evolution.

I have attempted to point out the evolution that occurs when a metallic spirit attempts to change a body, but you seem to be ignoring that.

You mention the problems with the periodic table in the search and I have mentioned these too, yet you insist on saying that my statements are somehow inferior to your own, superior knowledge of alchemy, which you still strangely refuse to share with the rest of us beyond insisting on iron's importance.

Who knows, maybe next you will start insisting all the information I have been providing is based on you having done the Middle Pillar and directed it towards me. LOL.
* * *
Seriously, I'm quite willing to stop sharing information if nobody is interested in hearing it. I don't want to cast my information toward people unwilling to listen, or at least have a serious philosophical discussion about the issue.

LeoRetilus
07-29-2010, 08:48 AM
So Leo, have you ever seen a marcasite of pure FeS2?

The reason I ask is that FeS2 is a chemical formula... alone it means NOTHING.

In the real world of geology, with which I am also familiar as you are, things are never that simple. You may have molecules of FeS2 arranged in various lattice structures, with some trace elements, but always the structure will be different due to the conditions prevalent at the formation of the rock.

Secondly, you should ask where does that iron and that sulphur come from, and why does it occur together? Moreover why does it hold together? People often say like charges repel, yet metals and other minerals have this odd habit of grouping together. Why?

Secondly, you mention the sulfurs and the mercuries, but you refuse to define them. Without defining them, there is no common ground for discussion, especially in regards a theory of their evolution.

I have attempted to point out the evolution that occurs when a metallic spirit attempts to change a body, but you seem to be ignoring that.

You mention the problems with the periodic table in the search and I have mentioned these too, yet you insist on saying that my statements are somehow inferior to your own, superior knowledge of alchemy, which you still strangely refuse to share with the rest of us beyond insisting on iron's importance.

Who knows, maybe next you will start insisting all the information I have been providing is based on you having done the Middle Pillar and directed it towards me. LOL.
* * *
Seriously, I'm quite willing to stop sharing information if nobody is interested in hearing it. I don't want to cast my information toward people unwilling to listen, or at least have a serious philosophical discussion about the issue.

I can tell by your response to my posts Vega that you're not really reading my posts only superficially glancing at them, your eyes are probably glazed over as you are doing it, as is IMO your knowledge of alchemy, wholly superficial, it is you who lack the common vocabulary in which to enter into a philosophical discussion, because I speak in the same manner of the adepts, I use their words.

"Secondly, you mention the sulfurs and the mercuries, but you refuse to define them. Without defining them, there is no common ground for discussion, especially in regards a theory of their evolution."

If Fulcanelli or the myriads of philosophers and alchemists that came before him didn't define sulfurs and mercuries why should I ? Such a thing cannot be defined it can only be known of philosophically, hence the terms "philosophical sulfur" and "philosophical mercury." Chemistry does not know them, so they are not "defined", definition is a human concept attached to your understanding and grasp to make sense of the physical world with your faculties/senses, conversly these are alchemical concepts extracted and made resolute from the occult metals themselves from the realm of the astral where everything begins, you can only know them with your heart, they are the very bindings of matter, the energy and the fire, the very thoughtforms of God that direct them to become what they are, not their constituent particle soup that science knows, but they do exist in all things and are common to all realms alike, animal, vegetable and mineral, this is one way that archemy differs from alchemy, because alchemy recognizes them in all, The All -in-all. Do me a favor define a live person from a dead one for me, chemically and physiologically speaking at the moment and shortly after the second of death they are both identical, but couldn't be more different than night or day now could they, unlike science in alchemy it is the spirit and the spirit alone that we recognize, that animates, that we try and isolate, that we preserve and work with and above all honor,...... give it a thousand names and definitions if you like.

And yes once again marcasite is defined as having the chemical formula FeS2, which implys only iron and sulfur(vulgar) is present, no antimony, no lead , no silver. However my point was that this metalloid grows and receives increase from the clayish earth in which it grows, which surrounds it, into a nodule, a ball, with a radiating crystal structure like a little sun, when split, that's with the mature ones of course. If you read my posts with less superficiality you might ask yourself the more important questions like, if they begin growth as a lump of clay and clay, comprising of iron, alumnia and silica can be still found in the more adolescent grainy- nodules then where does the alumina and silica disappear to when they reach crystalline maturity and only assay to contain iron and sulfur, where did the sulfur come from? likewise if David Hudson always began with 9999 gold or rhodium why then when reduced to the white powder state did those purified metals only assay to contain iron, alumina and silica, no gold or rhodium and why is it that the noble metals are so hard to get back?, where did their mercuries and/or sulfurs go?... that's because this threefold strata(iron, alumina and silica) is as Fulcanelli says the matrix and the mother of gold and metals.

I never said or implied that my knowledge is superior to yours, if you were saying the same thing I was then fine, but I don't think you were. However once again not to get too much into personalities of which I agree alchemy should be devoid of, and mine seems to be a constant target probably cause I post too often, and reveal too much as in some peoples opinions....familiarity breeds contempt? I will say this which will be my final say on the subject. If you read the same books I do and perform the work that is given in them and absorb the neccessary insights those processes supply and study nature as those books imply, then your knowledge is not "inferior", however I am willing to bet that you only read, and because of that your understanding will suffer, from time to time one has to put to practice what he reads otherwise he will always be relagated to the realm of the "armchair philosophers", you see I have had the advantage of having been isolated from civilization for the better part of ten years on an secluded island, among a chain of relatively young and still quite active volcanic islands, nature is right outside my window, caves and gold mines abandoned after the yukon gold rush are at my disposal, without the distractions and pollutions of bright city lights, friends and relatives, movie theaters and restaurants, smog and trite conveniences. In order to gain something of worth something of equal or greater value must be sacrificed... an alchemists life is one of solitude, spending countless hours toiling by the light of the moon to various filterings, sublimations, calcinations, crystallizations and much reading and re-reading all in an effort not only to discover the secret to the manufacture of the stone but to unlock the very secrets of nature in an effort to transcend them and the chains of the physical realm.

LeoRetilus
07-29-2010, 09:06 AM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=177

Ghislain

Yes, that looks like the mercury sublimate of iron, is this your work on the iron acetate? The sublimation looks like it took place at a low temperature compared to what is required to entirely separate it through for instance a dry distillation or a more complete sublimation that will move the formation of this down-like product into an isolated chamber, but you did achieve a metallic decomposition, in which the mercury spirit was detached. Now if you are game try this, remove some of those needles and place them in a jar seal them up and expose them to sunlight, and see if the sulphur of the sun does not radically unite with this mercury and melt into a yellowish colored liquid. Or try an archemic experiment like Fulcanelli suggests and take some of this sublimate, and either rub it in or heat a copper plate to red hot and drop them on it and see if this mercury of iron augments that which exists in copper to bring it to the ratios that exist in silver, effecting a transmutation.

solomon levi
07-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Hi Leo. Beautiful post.

A couple comments...

"However my point was that this metalloid grows and receives increase from the clayish earth in which it grows, which surrounds it, into a nodule, a ball, with a radiating crystal structure like a little sun, when split, that's with the mature ones of course."

"that's because this threefold strata(iron, alumina and silica) is as Fulcanelli says the matrix and the mother of gold and metals."


If you isolate the silica alone, that is, as water glass/oil of sand, it is the
matrix of metals. Not only will iron receive increase, but other metals as
well as we can observe on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45jZOc7PRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awsDDbWnA3s&feature=fvsr


The significance of clays is that they are silicate based, often hydroxides.

The iron should be seen as a separate entity - the provider of male/fire/sulphur/red. Iron is but one magnesia.
Magnesium is another, female in nature and white.

I've attempted to explain this in the VITRIOL thread about solid solution
series.

Sepiolite - has no iron or aluminum in it - is one of many
magnesium silicates that also produce fleece:

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Meerschaum.jpg

http://webmineral.com/specimens/photos/PG2MS/206-35.jpg

http://www.geokom.com/en/images/photos/sepiolite-2.jpg



All of these silicates can (and more):

* Anthophyllite (Mg,Fe)7Si8O22(OH)2
* Tremolite Ca2Mg5Si8O22(OH)2
* Actinolite Ca2(Mg,Fe)5Si8O22(OH)2
* Cummingtonite Fe2Mg5Si8O22(OH)2
* Grunerite Fe7Si8O22(OH)2
* Hornblende Ca2(Mg,Fe,Al)5(Al,Si)8O22(OH)2
* Glaucophane Na2(Mg,Fe)3Al2Si8O22(OH)2
* Riebeckite Na2Fe2+3Fe3+2Si8O22(OH)2
* Arfvedsonite Na3Fe2+4Fe3+Si8O22(OH)2
* Crocidolite Na2Fe2+3Fe3+2Si8O22(OH)2
* Richterite Na2Ca(Mg,Fe)5Si8O22(OH)2
* Pargasite NaCa2Mg3Fe2+Si6Al3O22(OH)2


Sometimes they form this way in nature. Here is crocidolite:

http://www.mineralatlas.com/mineral%20photos/R/IMG_0919.jpg


The Hermanov balls are other nodules with anthophyllite:

http://www.mineralatlas.com/mineral%20photos/A/H-195.jpg

vega33
07-29-2010, 08:19 PM
I can tell by your response to my posts Vega that you're not really reading my posts only superficially glancing at them, your eyes are probably glazed over as you are doing it, as is IMO your knowledge of alchemy, wholly superficial, it is you who lack the common vocabulary in which to enter into a philosophical discussion, because I speak in the same manner of the adepts, I use their words.

When you assume Leo, you put an A-S-S between U and ME. "I can tell"? My eyes "are probably glazed over"? Seems like you're playing the armchair psychic.

On the contrary Leo, I am aware of how to understand those terms (sulphurs, mercuries etc), as they relate to the elements making up the mixts that we find below ground, growing organically. The way you have used these terms has indicated a divergence from how several authors defined these terms, thus my question, which you relegated to the dustbin.


If Fulcanelli or the myriads of philosophers and alchemists that came before him didn't define sulfurs and mercuries why should I ? Such a thing cannot be defined it can only be known of philosophically, hence the terms "philosophical sulfur" and "philosophical mercury." Chemistry does not know them, so they are not "defined", definition is a human concept attached to your understanding and grasp to make sense of the physical world with your faculties/senses, conversly these are alchemical concepts extracted and made resolute from the occult metals themselves <SNIP>

Did you not READ where I was trying to tell you this? So why are you INSISTING, vehemently and obstinately, that Marcasite IS FeS2? The marcasite is a BODY, Leo, a snapshot frozen in time of an evolution of the mineral/metallic realm by the metallic spirit. Where there is heat, electricity, magnetic force, movement... there is life... especially when this movement or spirit is directed inwards towards generation. So why the infatuation with marcasites, if, as you say, you have lived around nature for endless years, toiling admittedly at the "filterings, sublimations, calcinations, crystallizations" which the philosophers make very clear diverge from the simple path?


And yes once again marcasite is defined as having the chemical formula FeS2, which implys only iron and sulfur(vulgar) is present, no antimony, no lead , no silver. However my point was that this metalloid grows and receives increase from the clayish earth in which it grows, which surrounds it, into a nodule, a ball, with a radiating crystal structure like a little sun, when split, that's with the mature ones of course. If you read my posts with less superficiality <SNIP>

Here you go again claiming that I am superficial. I rather suspect that it is you, Leo, who is not reading my posts using active listening skills, since you seemed to miss the point of my last several dialogues and why I focussed in on the "light clothed with darkness" aspect. Where do you think the radiating structure comes from? I will tell you. It comes not from an outward blooming, but from an incubation, a direction of the generative fire toward the center. Thus Pernety says that the heat must be even, continuous, etc, and he speaks of the digestion of the celestial (outward, visible fire, mostly present in space) fire into the central (inward, invisible) fire at the heart of matter, at the same time as speaking of the fire of the stove which is the interplay between the two. Were you to observe these two manifestations you might find it easier to recognise our magnet which the north star makes clear, which the fool will not realize even if they behold the this pole stamped with the image of Divinity itself.

This inward light, this inward fire, this light seeking light and gathering to a center according to the laws it comprehends from Nature, is the most primal subject... the solar winds taken in by the earth at its poles, the reciprocal streams which run between the two bodies in an ongoing communication/love affair between the two. The same happening below ground, where copper for instance dies that other metals may live. If you do not see this generation first in yourself, if you do not look within yourself to see how you rebuild yourself by your own vital fire and the fires of digestion, as I have done, you will find it impossible to recognise this vital process taking place in Nature, as much in marcasites as in any other similarly stamped body. Marcasites merely happen to show this generative action more clearly than other bodies. But it is the spirit which generates by using light/fire as its messenger, who is the true architect.

LeoRetilus
07-29-2010, 11:39 PM
Hi Leo. Beautiful post.

A couple comments...

"However my point was that this metalloid grows and receives increase from the clayish earth in which it grows, which surrounds it, into a nodule, a ball, with a radiating crystal structure like a little sun, when split, that's with the mature ones of course."

"that's because this threefold strata(iron, alumina and silica) is as Fulcanelli says the matrix and the mother of gold and metals."


If you isolate the silica alone, that is, as water glass/oil of sand, it is the
matrix of metals. Not only will iron receive increase, but other metals as
well as we can observe on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45jZOc7PRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awsDDbWnA3s&feature=fvsr


The significance of clays is that they are silicate based, often hydroxides.

The iron should be seen as a separate entity - the provider of male/fire/sulphur/red. Iron is but one magnesia.
Magnesium is another, female in nature and white.

I've attempted to explain this in the VITRIOL thread about solid solution
series.

Sepiolite - has no iron or aluminum in it - is one of many
magnesium silicates that also produce fleece:

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Meerschaum.jpg

http://webmineral.com/specimens/photos/PG2MS/206-35.jpg

http://www.geokom.com/en/images/photos/sepiolite-2.jpg



All of these silicates can (and more):

* Anthophyllite (Mg,Fe)7Si8O22(OH)2
* Tremolite Ca2Mg5Si8O22(OH)2
* Actinolite Ca2(Mg,Fe)5Si8O22(OH)2
* Cummingtonite Fe2Mg5Si8O22(OH)2
* Grunerite Fe7Si8O22(OH)2
* Hornblende Ca2(Mg,Fe,Al)5(Al,Si)8O22(OH)2
* Glaucophane Na2(Mg,Fe)3Al2Si8O22(OH)2
* Riebeckite Na2Fe2+3Fe3+2Si8O22(OH)2
* Arfvedsonite Na3Fe2+4Fe3+Si8O22(OH)2
* Crocidolite Na2Fe2+3Fe3+2Si8O22(OH)2
* Richterite Na2Ca(Mg,Fe)5Si8O22(OH)2
* Pargasite NaCa2Mg3Fe2+Si6Al3O22(OH)2


Sometimes they form this way in nature. Here is crocidolite:

http://www.mineralatlas.com/mineral%20photos/R/IMG_0919.jpg


The Hermanov balls are other nodules with anthophyllite:

http://www.mineralatlas.com/mineral%20photos/A/H-195.jpg

Thanks, excellent post as well, yes I agree with your assesment for the most part on silicates cause like I mentioned I believe the spirit has vitrified water to create crystalline silicates, hence it is very easily decomposed it to release it.

I was lead to the study of the asbestos series that you list there as well some time ago, while exploring the salamander motiff, the literary and historical excursions about Marco Polo, Pliny the Elder and Cyrano de Bergiac and this account from the Historic Usage in Wikipedia of asbestos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos)
"Some of the Persians believed the fiber was fur from an animal (named samandar, Persian: سمندر) that lived in fire and died when exposed to water." Of course samandar is Persian for salamander, and the allegory parallels real life in this instance...funny isn't how something so resistant to fire is utterly destroyed when drenched in water, namely acidic waters.....I pulled one out in particular and posted about it here:

posted 02-09-2010 thread: salamander and remora
Ah good well,

A magnesium silicate, Mg3(Si2O5)(OH)4,

Chrysotile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysotile

"....in which some of the magnesium ions may be substituted by iron or other cations. Substitution of the hydroxide ions for fluoride, oxide or chloride is also known, but rarer.[1] A related, but much rarer, mineral is pecoraite, in which all the magnesium cations of chrysotile are substituted by nickel cations"

"....Chrysotile is resistant to even strong bases, but the fibres are attacked by acids: the magnesium ions are selectively dissolved, leaving a silica skeleton...."

interesting that while it is not touched by vulgar fire that an acid can get to it, so if we replace the magnesium with say gold, will we have a gold glass?

posted 02-08-2010, thread :caves and mines
Hi all,

I found this article today, its very informative and collaborates what I have found in nature concerning gold deposits and their associations with sulphides,silicates, and antimoniacal waters in forming hydrothermal deposits, a very interesting read.

And in particular I'd like to pull out one paragraph that I need help with, somewhere in one of those old books, a path or process is mentioned that one can use to obtain a substance the, "color of the sky". I can't remember where I read it but at the time I wasn't aware of gold being able to take on the color of blue except by the disagregation of the metals to a certain size so I for the most part overlooked it but its been at the back of my mind for a while.

Does anyone recognize reading about what is described here:

".......was carried out by Professor Bischof some years ago. He, having prepared a solution of chloride of gold, added thereto a solution of silicate of potash, whereupon, as he states, the yellow colour of the chloride disappeared, and in half an hour the fluid turned blue, and a gelatinous dark-blue precipitate appeared and adhered to the sides of the vessel. In a few days moss-like forms were seen on the surface of the precipitate, presumably approximating to what we know as dendroidal gold--that is, having the appearance of moss, fern, or twigs"

I don't know if this guy knew what he had done, when he obtained the blue colored precipitate and the moss-like growth.

You know whats interesting ,...as I was searching for this post of mine concerning this experiment of Professor Bischof and found that I made the post on 02-08-2010, but you referenced the very same experiment on 07-03-2009 thread: sand


This interesting, from the book "Getting Gold" on genesis of metals
and this particular part with oil of sand (silicate of potash):

"But what about the metals? Whence came the metallic gold of our reefs and drifts? What was it originally--a metal or a metallic salt, and if the latter, what was its nature?--chloride, sulphide, or silicate, one, or all three? I incline to the latter hypothesis. All three are known, and the chemical conditions of the period were favorable for their natural production. Assuming that they did exist, the task of accounting for the mode of occurrence of our auriferous quartz lodes is comparatively simple. Chloride of gold is at present day contained in sea water and in some mineral waters, and would have been likely to be more abundant during the Azoic and early Paleozoic period.

Sulphide of gold would have been produced by the action of sulphuretted hydrogen; hence probably our auriferous pyrites lodes, while silicate of gold might have resulted from a combination of gold chlorides with silicic acid, and thus the frequent presence of gold in quartz is accounted for.

A highly interesting and instructive experiment, showing how gold might be, and probably was, deposited in quartz veins, was carried out by Professor Bischof some years ago. He, having prepared a solution of chloride of gold, added thereto a solution of silicate of potash, whereupon, as he states, the yellow colour of the chloride disappeared, and in half an hour the fluid turned blue, and a gelatinous dark-blue precipitate appeared and adhered to the sides of the vessel. In a few days moss-like forms were seen on the surface of the precipitate, presumably approximating to what we know as dendroidal gold--that is, having the appearance of moss, fern, or twigs. After allowing the precipitate to remain undisturbed under water for a month or two a decomposition took place, and in the silicate of gold specks of metallic gold appeared. From this, the Professor argues, and with good show of reason, that as we know now that the origin of our quartz lodes was the silicates contained in certain rocks, it is probable that a natural silicate of gold may be combined with these silicates. If this can be demonstrated, the reason for the almost universal occurrence of gold in quartz is made clear."


Quartz as the ore of gold could be related to a prima materia.
There's the mention of the quartz vase by Schwaller, and then his acquaintance Fulcanelli often refers us to the oak (Quercus).

LeoRetilus
07-30-2010, 12:27 AM
. So why the infatuation with marcasites, if, as you say, you have lived around nature for endless years, toiling admittedly at the "filterings, sublimations, calcinations, crystallizations" which the philosophers make very clear diverge from the simple path?






I've mentioned the simple path, the ars brevis as well, the path of one vessel, one matter, one operation,... but authors mostly like to write about the more complicated way that took a year or longer, the construction of the diaphanous gold glass,.... those "filterings, sublimations, calcinations, crystallizations' are neccessary to come to the correct revelations about nature and matter, which is why they are given sometimes plainly, sometimes not so much as processes and recipes, while the subject of the ars brevis was seldom if ever spoken about, but if you study this subject you will invariably come back to the same problem, what is this stone that was vile, abject and despised, a subject that was found everywhere, even in one's house, a subject that had fallen into disfavor, the stone that the builders refected, that which molded the form of ancient man, when Aros asks Mariam the Prophetess how to whiten the stone in such short time, which stone is he refering to? Why is it black when it is encountered? How many other authors have written of black ferringous masses, of certain egg shaped, golden streaked marcasite, encountered in clayish earths? I am not writting about marcasite to give you a lesson on nature and the subject of generation, but the excursion there was a plus. Pernety sounds like a well informed chap, but I doubt he ever made the stone, understanding nature and the subject of generation will only get you so far. You asked what the infatuation with marcasite was, I know that there are some alchemists that believe that there are no bad matters to start with and the Emerald Tablet affirms this, however one cannot ignore that by this descriptive body of langauge they mean one in particular, one where this spirit is more concentrated, one where the spirit is not so specified and fixed yet, so that we have less dross to separate from the subtle. Want to use stibinite/antimony how many kilograms will you need to make a specified firestone? Want to use lead, how many pounds of lead and vinegar will you need to procure? What will be your cost? Once I again I quote the following:

"If the reader is acquainted with the traditional manner of writing of the philosophers --- which manner we try to imitate correctly so that the Ancients can be explained through us and se we can be controlled by them, it will be easier for him to understand what the hermeticists meant by vessels. For these vessels represent not only two matters, or rather one matter in two states of its evolution, but they also symbolize our two ways based on the use of these different bodies.

The first of these ways which uses the vase of the art is time-consuming, painstaking, thankless, accessible to wealthy people, but is in a place of great honor in spite of the expenditures it entails, because it is the one which authors preferably describe. It s used as a support for their reasoning as well as for the theoretical development of the Work, requires an uninterrupted labor of twelve to eighteen months, and starts with natural gold prepared and dissolved in the philosophical mercury which is then cooked in a glass matrass. This is the honorable vase reserved for noble use of these precious substances which are the exalted gold and mercury of the sages.

The second way demands, from beginning to end, only the help of a coarse clay abundantly available, of such a low cost that in our time ten francs are sufficient to acquire a quantity more than enough for our needs. It is the clay and the way of the poor, of the simple and the modest, of those whom nature fills with wonder even by her most humble manifestations. Extremely easy, it only requires the presence of the artist, for the mysterious labor perfects itself by itself and is achieved in seven to nine days at the most. This way, unknown to the majority of practicing alchemists, is elaborated from start to finish in one crucible made of fireproof clay. It is the way that the great masters called woman’s work and child’s play; it is to it that they apply the old hermetic axiom: una res, una via, una dispositione. One matter, one vessel, one furnace. Such is our earthen vase, a despised, plain vase of common use, "which everyone has before his eyes, which costs nothing, which can be found at everyone’s house, yet which nonce can recognize without a revelation".-Dwellings of the Philosophers

solomon levi
07-30-2010, 03:06 AM
Thanks Leo.

Yes, this silicate water is also the field/matrix for the vegetation/trees of
gold and silver.


TO MAKE STEEL GROW IN A GLASS LIKE A TREE
Dissolve steel in a rectified spirit of salt, so shall you have a green and sweet solution which smells like brimstone. Filter it and abstract all the moisture in sand with a gentle heat. There will distill over a liquor as sweet as rain water. Steel, by reason of its dryness, detains the corrosiveness of the spirit of salt which remains in the bottom like a blood red mass which is as hot on the tongue as fire. Dissolve this red mass in oil of flints or of sand, and you shall see it grow up in two or three hours like a tree with stem and branches. Prove this tree at the test, and it shall yield good gold which this tree has drawn from the aforesaid oil of sand or flints which has a golden sulphur in it.


from French....

TO MAKE GOLD GROW IN A GLASS LIKE A TREE WHICH IS CALLED THE GOLDEN TREE OF THE PHILOSOPHERS
Take oil of sand, as much as you please, and pour upon it the same quantity of oil of tartar per deliquium. Shake them well together so that they be incorporated and become as one liquor of a thin consistency. Then is your menstruum or liquor prepared. Then dissolve gold in aqua regia, and evaporate the menstruum and dry the calx in the fire, but make it not too hot, for it will thereby lose its growing quality. Then take it out and break it into little bits, not into powder. Put those bits into the aforesaid liquor (that they may lay a finger's breadth the one from the other) in a very clear glass. Keep the liquor from the air, and you shall see that those bits of the calx will presently begin to grow. First they will swell. Then they will put forth one or two stems, and then diverse branches and twigs so exactly as that you cannot choose but exceedingly to wonder. This growing is real and not imaginary only. Note that the glass must stand still and not be moved.


I've read an old piece from the RAMS materials that states that this
silicate water is the matrix of metals, but not quite the First Matter.
He uses the word "succedanum".


More from French:
"Take a flint out of river water and put it into a gourd glass. Pour upon it as much river water as will fill the glass. Evaporate this water until the flint be dry. Then pour on more fresh water. Do this so long until the flint will fill up the glass (for in a little time it will fill it up and become to be of the form or figure of the glass) for it attracts to itself the mucilaginousness of the water which, indeed, is a slimy saltish matter and the true matter of stones. And thus you shall have that done by art in few days which nature would have been perfecting many years and, indeed, just such a flint as is produced in the rivers. Anyone that should see this flint in the glass would wonder how it should come in there. You may break your glass and take out your flint."


And we have the industrious experiments on rain water from the Golden
Chain of Homer which produce sand. And where the author of the RAMS
document will call this silicate the matrix but not the sperm, Kirchweger
freely tells us the Universal sperm in nitre and sea salt. And that this
aerial nitre mixes with the oceans to produce sea salt and this sea salt
mixes with the earth to make sand... so they seem to confirm one another:
sand is indeed the succedanum to sea salt and nitre, according to GCH.

Ghislain
07-30-2010, 08:52 PM
Hi Leo


heat a copper plate to red hot and drop them on it and see if this mercury
of iron augments that which exists in copper to bring it to the ratios that exist in
silver, effecting a transmutation.

Tried this, but I don't want to hijack this thread so I will post my results in the
" Acetic Acid on Iron Oxide " thread.

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
07-30-2010, 11:20 PM
Not only will iron receive increase, but other metals as well as we can observe on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45jZOc7PRY


Its interesting how a solution of sodium silicate will give up the sodium to form ionic bonds with a more "active" metal. I consider cobalt an occult metal and thought it very cool how those thin wires shoot out all of a sudden.

Even more interesting that a white colored powdered iron sulphate turns black in the silicate solution.

LeoRetilus
07-31-2010, 12:53 AM
"Number 3: finally, a second angel, showing the open book, the hieroglyph of the matter of the Work, prepared and liable to manifest the spirit it contains. The sages have called their matter Liber --- the book --- because its texture, crystalline and lamellated, is formed of superimposed leaves, like the pages of a book. "-Dwellings

For one that has studied minerals for any length of time in natural settings, mica should almost always come to mind here, cause it is layered and crumbles like sheets of a book. I believe it was Albion who brought it to my attention, that he read somewhere that the Indian holy men who make the parad ligams do so by "feeding" mica to vulgar mercury/quicksilver till it assumes a solid consistancy.

A quick look at mica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica) in wikepedia, mica is "group of sheet silicate (phyllosilicate) minerals includes several closely related materials having highly perfect basal cleavage. All are monoclinic with a tendency towards pseudo-hexagonal crystals and are similar in chemical composition. The highly perfect cleavage, which is the most prominent characteristic of mica, is explained by the hexagonal sheet-like arrangement of its atoms"....signed with a six?....once again under historical use Mica in Ancient times:

"Human use of mica dates back to pre-historic times. Mica was known to ancient Egyptian, Greek and Roman civilizations, Chinese civilization, as well as the Aztec civilization of the New World.

The earliest use of mica has been found in cave paintings created during the Upper Paleolithic period (40,000 BC to 10,000 BC). The first hues were red (iron oxide, hematite, or red ochre) and black (manganese dioxide, pyrolusite), though black from juniper or pine carbons has also been discovered. White from kaolin or mica was used occasionally.

A few kilometers northeast of Mexico City stands the ancient site of Teotihuacan. The most striking visual and striking structure of Teotihuacan is the towering Pyramid of the Sun. The pyramid contained considerable amounts of mica in layers up to 30 cm (12 in) thick.[10]

Throughout the ages, fine powders of mica have been used for various purposes, including decorative purposes. The colored Gulal and Abeer used by Hindus of north India during holi festival contain fine small crystals of mica. The majestic Padmanabhapuram palace, 65 km (40 mi) from Trivandrum in India, has colored mica windows.

From here I went on to read about manganese dioxide and pyrolusite:

manganese dioxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_dioxide)
"Manganese dioxide is the inorganic compound with the formula MnO2. This blackish or brown solid occurs naturally as the mineral pyrolusite, which is the main ore of manganese and a component of manganese nodules."Hmmm, manganese nodules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese_nodule)?

Polymetallic nodules, also called manganese nodules, are rock concretions on the sea bottom formed of concentric layers of iron and manganese hydroxides around a core.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Manganknolle.jpg/220px-Manganknolle.jpg

Looks exactly like a marcasite nodule found in clay....

When mangenese nodules appear as black concretions....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Konkrecje_manganowe.jpg/220px-Konkrecje_manganowe.jpg

So what is manganese?

Manganese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese)

Manganese (pronounced /ˈmæŋɡəniːz/, MANG-gən-neez) is a chemical element, designated by the symbol Mn. It has the atomic number 25. It is found as a free element in nature (often in combination with iron), and in many minerals.

Manganese is part of the iron group of elements, which are thought to be synthesized in large stars shortly before the supernova explosion. 53Mn decays to 53Cr with a half-life of 3.7 million years. Because of its relatively short half-life, 53Mn occurs only in tiny amounts due to the action of cosmic rays on iron in rocks "

Sounds like an evolved or allotropic form of iron to me, with a more perfect mercury, an iron mined from the sea, instead of the earth.
History:
The origin of the name manganese is complex. In ancient times, two black minerals from Magnesia in what is now modern Greece were both called magnes, but were thought to differ in gender. The male magnes attracted iron, and was the iron ore we now know as lodestone or magnetite, and which probably gave us the term magnet. The female magnes ore did not attract iron, but was used to decolorize glass. This feminine magnes was later called magnesia, known now in modern times as pyrolusite or manganese dioxide. Neither this mineral nor manganese itself is magnetic. In the 16th century, manganese dioxide was called manganesum (note the two n's instead of one) by glassmakers, possibly as a corruption and concatenation of two words, since alchemists and glassmakers eventually had to differentiate a magnesia negra (the black ore) from magnesia alba (a white ore, also from Magnesia, also useful in glassmaking). Michele Mercati called magnesia negra Manganesa, and finally the metal isolated from it became known as manganese (German: Mangan). The name magnesia eventually was then used to refer only to the white magnesia alba (magnesium oxide), which provided the name magnesium for that free element, when it was eventually isolated, much later.[9]

Manganese compounds were used by Egyptian and Roman glassmakers, to either remove color from glass or add color to it.[12] The use as glassmakers soap continued through the middle ages until modern times and is evident in 14th century glass from Venice.[13]


Credit for first isolating manganese is usually given to Johan Gottlieb GahnBecause of the use in glassmaking, manganese dioxide was available to alchemists, the first chemists, and was used for experiments. Ignatius Gottfried Kaim (1770) and Johann Glauber (17th century) discovered that manganese dioxide could be converted to permanganate, a useful laboratory reagent.[14]

The oxidation state 5+ can be obtained if manganese dioxide is dissolved in molten sodium nitrite.[7] Manganate (VI) salts can also be produced by dissolving Mn compounds, such as manganese dioxide, in molten alkali while exposed to air.

Permanganate (+7 oxidation state) compounds are purple, and can give glass a violet color.

Why was Glauber so interested in permanganate?

Pyrolusite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolusite)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/Pyrolusite_botryoidal.jpg/150px-Pyrolusite_botryoidal.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Pyrolusite_dendritic.jpg/150px-Pyrolusite_dendritic.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Pyrolusite_radiating.jpg/150px-Pyrolusite_radiating.jpg

Pyrolusite is a mineral consisting essentially of manganese dioxide (MnO2) and is important as an ore of manganese. It is a black, amorphous appearing mineral, often with a granular, fibrous or columnar structure, sometimes forming reniform crusts. It has a metallic luster, a black or bluish-black streak, and readily soils the fingers. The specific gravity is about 4.8. Its name is from the Greek for fire and to wash, in reference to its use as a way to remove tints from glass.[3]

Pyrolusite is also used to prepare disinfectants (permanganates) and for decolorizing glass. When mixed with molten glass it oxidizes the ferrous iron to ferric iron, and so discharges the green and brown tints (making it classically useful to glassmakers as a decolorizer). As a coloring material, it is used in calico printing and dyeing; for imparting violet, amber, and black colors to glass, pottery, and bricks; and in the manufacture of green and violet paints.

Lots of allusions to coloring glass and work of alchemists here concerning mangenese, too many to ignore ,....in this webpage, excerpts from Andre VandenBroeck's AL-KEMI, A MEMOIR: Hermetic, Occult, Political and Private Aspects of R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz a book that IMO exposes R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz as the true mastery behind Dwellings of the Philosophers and the imaginary pseudonym of Fulcanelli as a den of theives, that lifted the manscript tha became Dwellings of the Philosophers, says...

" The most outstanding revelation from VandenBroeck's memoir of his studies with Schwaller concerns the elaboration of stained glass used in the great gothic cathedrals typified by the intense reds and blues of Chartres. Scientific analysis detects no chemical pigmentation yet the glass appears tinted throughout its mass. Schwaller explained to VandenBroeck the alchemical procedure by which the Chartres glass was dyed in its mass by the volatile spirit of metals. He had discovered shards of similar glass during his archeological research in Egypt.

"I have retrieved fragments of this kind of manufacture in crucibles of early Pharonic sites. It is a nontechnical ‘truc', the most readily available proof of alchemical manipulation, at least in our time. This is what I worked on with Fulcanelli. Once you can infuse reds and blues into glass in this manner, you have proved the gesture of ‘separatio', you have ‘separated the earth from fire, the subtle from the dense;' remember the Emerald Tablet. It takes great agility to separate while keeping both parts. Yet this is essential, for there must be body from which the spirit can rise, as there must be earth for the descent of fire. The glass is colored by the spirit of the metal, by the color-form."(4"

Is mangenese Fulcanelli's M, our magnesia, a more evolved form of iron, I think, yes, the proof is in the nodules, as these polymetallic nodules which contain not only iron, but also mangenese, cobalt and platinum group metals have been unearthed in areas where the ocean bottom has risen above sea level........from the Arcana Divina (http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy3/arcdivin.htm)

"We will now further pursue our revelation in an exemplary manner, and with God’s Holy Spirit make a proper introduction to the truth of our knowledge of philosophy in a worthy manner and point out how everything flows out from the Eternal Center and enlightens to His Holy Nature, but before we write about universal truths applying to both the world of the microcosm and the world of the macrocosm, we will start with the realm of minerals as the beginning in which imperfect and impaired metals are found in the brilliance of the Sun in all its glory, and this provides very little for us to use.

Now, then, take in the Holy Name of God, the crude gold-bearing mineral cobalt, discovered and obtained in the mines, as previously noted, was used in the secret preparation, which was then placed on a flat piece of tile and mixed with a little Nitre and allowed to remain for 2, 3, or even 4 hours, whereupon an astonishing change will be noted in the manner in which this material behaves, since there is now a penetrating force of the General Spirit of the World; which shows an increased oscillation and finally, to a very pronounced degree, reveals its astral nature: on heating to a brilliant red, an artificial ruby-red gemstone of inestimable value, exceeding the value of gold and termed the Treasure of Treasures results."

...Cobalt ores almost always occur along with arsenic and sulfur, two matters that Fulcanelli said had to be washed out, by the way cobalt was also used since ancient times to color glass blue....Arsenopyrite is also an ore of cobalt, and contains both arsenic and sulfur and some gold, and as the following paragraph from wikepedia shows is more like marcasite than pyrite:

"Arsenopyrite crystallizes in the monoclinic crystal system and often shows prismatic crystal or columnar forms with striations and twinning common. Arsenopyrite may be referred to in older references as orthorhombic, but it has been shown to be monoclinic. In terms of its atomic structure, each Fe center is linked to three As atoms and three S atoms. The material can be described as Fe3+ with the diatomic trianion AsS3-. The connectivity of the atoms is more similar to that in marcasite than pyrite."

Joy
07-31-2010, 06:11 PM
> the imaginary pseudonym of Fulcanelli as a den of theives<

you read than also about Fulcanellis death ... there is a saying ... that a man dies
as he lived ... often I realize, that a lot of people look for power in Alchemy.

The realtionship between Schwaller and Fulanelli was kind of strange, they both
had different goals in life.

Thoughtful about all this ... Joy:)

horticult
08-01-2010, 10:09 AM
"Number 3: finally, a second angel, showing the open book, the hieroglyph of the matter of the Work, prepared and liable to manifest the spirit it contains. The sages have called their matter Liber --- the book --- because its texture, crystalline and lamellated, is formed of superimposed leaves, like the pages of a book. "-Dwellings


It just stroke me that then did not exist books as we know now, they have rolls.

vega33
08-01-2010, 08:14 PM
IPernety sounds like a well informed chap, but I doubt he ever made the stone, understanding nature and the subject of generation will only get you so far.

But this is another assumption! How can you say who has made the Stone and who hasn't? Are only those alchemists who support your own conclusions by speaking suitably vaguely likely to have made the Stone? No? Then which ones have? Can you list them off? I would think not.


You asked what the infatuation with marcasite was, I know that there are some alchemists that believe that there are no bad matters to start with and the Emerald Tablet affirms this, however one cannot ignore that by this descriptive body of langauge they mean one in particular, one where this spirit is more concentrated, one where the spirit is not so specified and fixed yet, so that we have less dross to separate from the subtle.

This is the description of the Stone, to some extent, per Fulcanelli's discussion of the spirit fixed on a tenacious and refractory envelope, but he also means something more as I'll explain later. Yes, we need to take a matter in which this spirit is more concentrated, to save time/money incubating it. Ultimately, however, this Spirit is present everywhere... Latin ubique... from whence ubiquitous. Now you can claim that some specific matter is meant... but where did the pyrite or the cobalt or the nickel etc come from originally? It was generated or grown, something which all the other adepts say in unison. They speak of metallic generation, then they speak of the Stone. So what was it grown from? The answer: from the metallic seed, around which the metallic spirit gathers, agglomerates, coagulates into new substance. What is this metallic seed? The answer: look in Nature. Then what is the Stone made from? It also has its seed/egg. BUT: and here is the big but... it must also be hatched or incubated in the right way. Just like in Fulcanelli's experiments where he describes the formation of nascent gold, and later when he describes something similar with his "fine black sand" (in the Bodyguards of Francis).

Yes, marcasites are ONE example of a seed in Nature's mineral kingdom. The radiating star that one sees within them is a sign of this incubation that has been occurring. They are not the only one however. And I just think it is important to understand the principles of the Art well, rather than focus on outward details such as Wikipedia entries. We can identify any literal descriptions that might be given via such means (which are few and far between)... which you have done in mentioning manganese and iron and their special relationship. But they won't allow us to understand how the Art works.


"If the reader is acquainted with the traditional manner of writing of the philosophers --- which manner we try to imitate correctly so that the Ancients can be explained through us and se we can be controlled by them, it will be easier for him to understand what the hermeticists meant by vessels. For these vessels represent not only two matters, or rather one matter in two states of its evolution, but they also symbolize our two ways based on the use of these different bodies.

This quote you mentioned and the remainder of it speak in general terms of a similar procedure. Neither of them speak of the marcasite method however.

The trick is to always refer back to Nature. A cell, in Nature, has a membrane enclosing its plasmic part; an egg has its shell; a tree has its bark; the seed has its earth. The marcasite, as with other seeds in the mineral realm/ores, have their external coating, within which the embryo is developing, thanks to the transmission of life force from its surrounding matrix. Our own external skin sheds regularly, it is the one taking the external heat of the sun/air (aether) and conveying it inwards... it is a mediator of one aspect of our life force. The serpent on the ground, or the fixed part, its external part dies so that the internal part may live. Thus the serpent, which sheds its skin to birth what is within, becomes a symbol of the magistery.

It is this external "refractory envelope" which serves the dual purpose of conveying the life force within, yet at the same time keeping it within, due to the difference in density. Yet the external envelope is made of the same substance as the internal man... merely coagulated into a different level of density... a fact we notice regularly. Trees heal from cutting, humans do too, using their "blood" to form an external covering underneath which new skin can build up.

Things like this are easily observed, even in your own home, in cooking vegetables, in watching plants grow or dissecting any kind of animal.... but few people bother to observe them. The same principle exists in the blood vessels, the tendons and so on... consider how many mediators are involved in simply moving your finger. Movement is conveyed from brain, to nerve, to muscle, to tendon, which finally moves bone.

They seem like trivial principles, but in fact they are the most important. Everything needs a mediator in order to grow. A body cannot take the pure light/heat directly, it must receive it through an envelope, a glass darkly so to speak. If we received sunlight directly rather than through the medium of the air, our bodies would carbonize. This was the message which Christianity esoterically delivered to the world... the idea of a material which dies/radiates its life so that the one who receives it may live, and may be perfected (from whence the Cathars and their titles). You find this in the alchemical expression "kill the living to revive the dead", and in Flamel's massacre of the innocents.

But the material which conveys life must be in harmony with the material receiving life, thus there is a musical or ratio-nal aspect. These principles are important so that one may know what to DO with the marcasite, the clay, the silica, etc etc. How to prepare them, so to speak. Without this knowledge, one is lost.

Ghislain
08-02-2010, 03:39 AM
Without this knowledge, one is lost.

Do you possess this knowledge Vega33?

Ghislain

LeoRetilus
08-02-2010, 05:03 AM
Vega you might not respect me very much and thats fine, those who resonate with my words will and those who don't....well I guess I don't really write for them and so I don't care, so I'll let Glauber, a well respected alchemist answer my final word on these marcasite nodules regarding the subject of the "vile and despicable stone".......


The preparation of the sweet oil of Vitriol.

Commonly in all fat soils or clayle grounds, especially in
the white, there is found a kind of stones, round or oval in
form, and in bigness like unto a pigeons or hens—eggs, and
smaller also, viz. as the joint of ones finger, on the outside
black, and therefore not esteemed when it is found,
but cast away as a contemptible stone(not esteemed and contemptible, ergo "vile".)
Which if it be cleansed from the earth, and beaten to pieces,
looks within of a fair yellow and in streaks,
like a gold Marcasite, or a
rich gold Ore, but there is no other taste to be perceived in
it, then in another ordinary stone; and although it be made into
powder, and boiled a long time in water, yet it doth not alter
at all, nor is there In the water, any other taste or colour,
than that which it had first (when it was poured upon the stone)
to be perceived. Now this stone is nothing else, but the best
and purest Minera (or Ore) of Vitriol, or a seed of Metals; for
Nature hath framed It round, like unto a vegetable seed, and
sowed it into the earth, out of which there may be made an
excellent medicine, as followeth.
Take this Ore or Minera beaten into pieces, and for some
space of time, lay or expose it to the cool air, and within
twenty or thirty days it will magnetically attract a certain
saltish moisture out of the air, and grow heavy by it, and at
last it falleth asunder to a black powder, which must remain
further lying there still, until it grow whitish, and that it do
taste sweet upon the tongue like vitriol. Afterward put it in a
glass—vessel, and pour on so much fair rain water, as that it
cover It one or two inches; stir it about several times a day,
and after a few days the water will be coloured green, which you
must pour off, and pour on more fair water, and proceed as
before, stirring it often until that also come to be green: this
must be repeated so often, until no water more will be coloured
by standing upon it. Then let all the green waters which you
poured off, run through filtering paper,
for to purifle them( a philosophers distillation); and then in a glass—body
cut off short let them evaporate till a skin appear at the top: then set it in a
cold place, and there will shoot little green stones, which are
nothing else but a pure vitriol: the remaining green water
evaporate again, and let it shoot as before: and this
evaporating and Crystallising must be continued until no vitriol
more will shoot, but In warm and cold places there remain still
a deep green pleasant sweet liquor or juice: which is the true
sweet and green oil of Vitriol, and bath all the virtues above
related,
But now this green oil further without fire may at last
(after the preparing of many fair colours between) be reduced to
a blood red, sweet and pleasant oil, which goeth far beyond the
green both in pleasantness and virtue, and is in comparjsjon to
it like a ripe grape to an unripe: Hereof happily shall be
spoken at another time, because occasion and time will not
permit me now to proceed further in it. And therefore the Philo—
Chymical Reader is desired for the present to be contented with
the green oil, to prepare it carefully, and to use it with
discretion; and doubtless he will get more credit by it, and do
more wonderful things then hitherto bath been done by the heavy
corrosive oil.
The use and Dose of the sweet oil of Vitriol.
Of this green oil, there may be taken from 1. 2. 4. 8. 10. or
12. drops at once, according to the condition of the patient and
the disease, in fit Vehicles, in Wine or Beer, in the morning
fasting, as othermedicines are usually taken:
Also the Dose may be increased or
lessened, and as often reiterated as the disease shall require.
This Oil expelleth all ill humors, not only by etoole and
vomits, but also by urine and sweating, according as it doth
meet with superfluities; and this very safely, and without any
danger at all; whereby many diseases radically or perfectly may
be cured.
Let no man wonder that I ascribe such great virtues unto
this oil, it coming from such a despicable stone, and its
preparation requiring no great Art or pains, as those intricate
deceitful processes do, that are every where extant in books
quite filled up with them. And it is no marvel, that men are in
love with such false and costly processes; for the most of them
do not believe, that any good is to be found in things that are
not in esteem; but only make great account of dear things, far
fetcht, and requiring much time and pains for to be prepared.
Such men do not believe the word of God, testifying, THAT
GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS, but that all men that fear and
love him, are accepted of him. If this be true (which no good
Christian will doubt) then we must believe also, that God
created Physick or the matter of Physick as well for the poor as
for the rich. Now if it be also for the poor, then certainly
such will be the condition thereof, that it may be obtained by
them, and easily prepared for use. So we see that Almighty God
causeth not only in great mens grounds to come forth good
Vegetables, Animals and Minerals, for the curing of the
infirmities of mankind, but that the same also are found every
where else. Whereby we perceive, that it Is also the will of
God, that they shall be known
by all men, and that he alone, as the Maker of all good, may be
praised and magnified by all men for the same.
I doubt not but there will be found self—conceited
scoffers, that will despise this so little regarded subject, as
if no good thing could be made of it, because they could find
nothing in it themselves. But be it known to them, that neither
to me nor them all things have been discovered, but that yet
many wonderful works of Nature arehidden to us: and besides that
I am not the first that writ of Vitriol and its medicine. For
the Ancients, our dear Ancestors, had always Vitriol in very
great esteem, as the following Verse doth prove.
Visitabis Interiora Terra, Rectificando
Invenies Occultum Lapidem, Veram Medicinam.

Thereby they would give us to understand, that a true
medicine is to be found in it. And the same also was known to
the latter Philosophers: for BASILIUS and PARACELSUS have always
highly commended it, as in their writings is to be found.
It is to be admired, that this Ore or Metallical seed,
which may justly be called the gold of Physicans (in regard that
so good a medicine can be made of it) is not changed or altered
in the earth, like other things that grow in it, but keepeth
always the same form and shape, until it cometh to the air,
which is its earth or ground, wherein it putrefieth and groweth.
For first it swelleth and groweth like as a vegetable seed doth
in the earth: and so taketh its increase and grows out of the
air, just as a seed of an herb in the earth; and the air is not
only its Matrix, wherein it groweth and doth increase like a
vegetable, but it is also its Sun which maketh It ripe. For
within four reeks at the furthest it putrefieth and groweth
black: and about a fortnight after it groweth white, and then
green; and thus far it hath been described here: But if you
proceed further Philosopher-like therewith, there will come
forth to light at the last the fairest red, and most pleasant
Medicine, for which God be praised for ever and ever Amen.

The matrix is the clay, it is the mother, however the without the seed, the sperm, the virgin earth is without child, and the androgyne product of their union goes unborn, and just as you so earnestly pointed out, this seed lies hidden in the egg, at the center of the nodule from which growth radiates outward. And so both are present in this vile stone, both are neccessary for the work to procede. Clay is abundantely encountered, silicates and all, but clay is still clay, it lies for millions of years without movement without growth, until by Gods grace the seed is imparted, the imposition of this seed is evidenced by the nodules from which it grows, it is the seed that I see, it is the seed that I highly esteem.

LeoRetilus
08-02-2010, 06:08 AM
I thought it content to just mention the words of Glauber on the matter but since I have always found those of sweet Basil to be in such synchronicity with his and for good reason because both Glauber and even Fulcanelli attested that Basil Valentine described both the manufacture of sweet vitriol and the ellucidations to the vitriol of metals(gur) and the egg-like stone that grows as a vegatable-marcasite nodules.

"As our most ancient Stone is not derived from combustible things, you should cease to seek it in substances which cannot stand the test of fire. For this reason it is absurd to suppose that we can make any use of vegetable substances, though the Stone, too, is endowed 'with a principle of growth.

If our Stone were a vegetable substance, it would, like other vegetables, be consumed by fire, leaving only a certain salt. Ancient writers have, indeed, described our Stone as the vegetable Stone. But that name was suggested to them by the fact that it grows and increases in size, like a plant.

Know also that animals only multiply after their kind, and within their own species. Hence our Stone can only be prepared out of its own seed, from which it was taken in the beginning; and hence also you will perceive that the soul of an animal must not be the subject of this investigation. Animals are a class by themselves; nor can anything ever be obtained from them that is not animal in its nature. But our Stone, as it has been bequeathed to me by the Ancients, is derived from two things, and one thing, in which is concealed a third thing. This is the purest truth, and a most faithful saying. For male and female have from of old been regarded as one body, not from any external or visible consideration, but on account of the ardour of that mutual love which naturally draws them together into one; and as the male and female seed jointly represent the principle of propagation, so also the sperm of the matter out of which our Stone is made can be sown and increased. There are in our substance two supplementary kinds of seed, from which our Stone may be prepared and multiplied.

If you are a true lover of our Art, you will carefully weigh and ponder these words, lest, with other sophisticators, you fall into the dangerous pit prepared by the common enemy of man. But whence are you to obtain this seed? This question you may most easily answer by asking yourself another question. What do you want to develop from this seed, and what use do you wish to make of it? There can be no doubt, then that it must be the root, or first substance, of metals, from which all metals derive their origin. It is, therefore, necessary that we should now proceed to speak of the generation of the metals.

In the beginning, when the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, and as yet all was involved in darkness, Almighty and Eternal God, Whose beginning and wisdom are from everlasting, by His inscrutable counsel created heaven and earth, and all that in them is, both visible and invisible, out of nothing. How the act of creation was accomplished I will not attempt to explain. This is a matter which is set forth to us in Holy Scripture, and must be apprehended by faith.

To each creature God gave its own seed, wherewith to propagate its kind, that in this way there might always be an increase of men and animals, plants and metals. Man was not to be able to produce new seed: he was only permitted to educe new forms of life out of that which already existed. The creating of seed God reserved to Himself For if man could create seed he would be equal to the Creator.

Know that our seed is produced in the following way. A celestial influence descends from above, by the decree and ordinance of God, and mingles with the astral proper ties. When this union has taken place, the two bring forth a third namely, an earth-like substance, which is the principle of our seed, of its first source, so that it can shew an ancestry, and from which three the elements, such as water, air, and earth, take their origin. These elements work underground in the form of fire, and there produce what Hermes, and all who have preceded me, call the three first principles, viz., the internal soul, the impalpable spirit, and visible bodies, beyond which we can find no earlier beginning of our Magistery.

In the course of time these three unite, and are changed through the action of fire into a palpable substance, viz., quicksilver, sulphur, and salt. If these three substances be mixed, they are hardened and coagulated into a perfect body, which represents the seed chosen and appointed by the Creator. This is a most important and certain truth. If the metallic soul, the metallic spirit, and the metallic form of body be present, there will also be metallic quicksilver, metallic sulphur, and metallic salt, which together make up the perfect metallic body.

If you cannot perceive what you ought to understand herein, you should not devote yourself to the study of philosophy."- Basil Tweleve Keys

Now how do I know that Basil is speaking of marcasite? Because on the subject of metallic generation these two paragraphs in The Tweleve Keys in particular mirror what is spoken of in the Golden Chain of Homer:

"There can be no doubt, then that it must be the root, or first substance, of metals, from which all metals derive their origin[/U][/B]. It is, therefore, necessary that we should now proceed to speak of the generation of the metals.".....

"A celestial influence descends from above, by the decree and ordinance of God, and mingles with the astral proper ties. When this union has taken place, the two bring forth a third namely, an earth-like substance, which is the principle of our seed, of its first source, so that it can shew an ancestry, and from which three the elements, such as water, air, and earth, take their origin. "

they fit resoundingly well with the description for the same topic of metallic generation in the Golden Chain of Homer:

We have demonstrated that the primordial Vapour, or that fire and water, are after God, the First Matter of all Things. This two−fold Vapour by inspissation is become water and this water by the action of the invisible
spirit therein diffused, has begun to ferment and then to generate Matter. At first, this water was perfectly subtil and pure, but by means of the action of the inward spirit, it becomes turbid, smelled badly and thus generated Earth.....
A vitriolic Soft butyraceous Gur; The above Vapours becoming more and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour this setting by corroding forms nature vitriol, sulphur, arsenic, and by succeeding sulphur vapours,
and also arsenical Vapours, they form and generate.
The portion of the earth which the corrosive [vapor] has been unable to dissolve completely, is made subtle, dirty, and greasy in part. Alchemists call it a metallic gur, or the first matter of metals, but wrongly so, because it is the first and nearest matter to sulphur and arsenic. When arsenic becomes marcasite, that then is the very nearest matter to metals, because metals spring directly from marcasite and not from this gur which is only the distant matter of metals. This gur or dirty substance is made ever finer by the rising corrosive vapors and is more and more dissolved. And the more it becomes subtle, the more it congeals the corrosive within itself, and that makes it sulphurous and arsenical. This arsenic is increasingly ripened into marcasite, and the marcasite in turn into metal. Such is the progress of metals, which we intend to show ever more clearly.

When the vapors rise into the cracks and crevices of the rocks, they turn into water because of their condensation (while more and more rise unceasingly). This water contains the intermingled spirit of salt and saltpeter, which spirit is known by all alchemists to be corrosive. Here, however, in the center, it is surrounded and diluted by much Phlegma and water. Such spirits adhere to rocks and earth by their sharpness, corrode and dissolve them, make them subtle, swollen, sticky, greasy and dirty, and turn them into a moist gur which lies between the rocks and the earth like meat interlarded with bacon. But often it penetrates outside due to the swelling and adheres to the walls, as may be seen in old galleries and mines. The more dissolved and refined such dissolved earth becomes through vapors and salty spirits, the more it swells, pressing and driving out the remaining moisture by this swelling. In turn, this moisture runs back to the center or elsewhere into other corners and holes of the earth. This swollen earth or gur now has no peace, because the continually rising and subsequent vapors are attacking it ever more, adhere to it, congeal and coagulate with the earth; and the more such corrosive vapors follow, the more fiery, sulphurous the earth becomes. The more sulphurous it becomes, the higher it swells, and more moisture it drives off, and becomes the drier the longer it lasts. The drier it becomes, however, the more the sulphurous component part loses its combustibility and thereby acquires the name of mercury, or rightly, arsenic, which has originated in the sulphurous acidity. It no longer burns, but is still volatile. This volatility, however, is gradually more bound by the central heat between the stones, and thereby congealed and coagulated, so that it is transformed into a marcasite. If the digestion or earthy central heat is strong, the marcasite is congealed into a metal; but if it is weak, it remains what it is or becomes a marcasite or arsenic choke-damp, or pyrite

Likewise Fulcanelli advises to do as Basil exclaims, "to take out of the metallic root", which I have shown to be marcasite.

"Its traditional name, the stone of the philosophers, is descriptive enough of the body to serve as a useful basis for its identification. It is, indeed, genuinely a stone, for, out of the mine, it shows the external characteristics common to all ores. It is the chaos of the sages, in which the four elements are contained, but in a confused, disorganized manner. It is our old man and the father of metals which owe their origin to it, as it represents the first earthly metallic manifestation. It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena, cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it with their name. It is still called black dragon covered with scales, venomous serpent, daughter of Saturn, and "the most beloved of its children". This primal substance has seen its evolution interrupted by the interposition of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats its pure mercury, holds it back, and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this primitive mercury, materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man, Yet, in this subject --- poor relative of the metal family --- the enlightened artist finds everything that he needs to begin and perfect his Great Work, since it is present, say the authors, at the beginning, the middle, and the end of the Work. Therefore the Ancients have compared it to the Chaos of Creation, where elements and principles, the darkness and the light, were on and the other confounded, intermixed, and unable to mutually interact. For this reason they symbolically depicted their matter in its first being as the image of the world which contained in itself the materials of our hermetic globe (1), or microcosm, assembled without order, without form, without rhythm or measure.

Our globe, reflection and mirror of the microcosm, is therefore nothing but a small part of the primordial Chaos, destined by divine will for elementary renewal in the three kingdoms, but which sets of mysterious circumstances have oriented and directed toward the mineral kingdom. Thus given form and specified, subjected to the laws ruling the evolution and the progression of minerals, this chaos, which has become a body, contains in a confused manner the purest seed and the closest substance there is to minerals and metals. The philosopher’s matter is therefore of mineral and metallic origin. Hence, one must only seek it in the mineral and metallic root, which, says, Basil Valentine in the book, The Twelve Keys, was reserved by the Creator and intended only for the generation of metals"

vega33
08-02-2010, 07:47 AM
Vega you might not respect me very much and thats fine, those who resonate with my words will and those who don't....well I guess I don't really write for them and so I don't care, so I'll let Glauber, a well respected alchemist answer my final word on these marcasite nodules regarding the subject of the "vile and despicable stone".......

This what is known as a logical fallacy, and classic NLP as well... stating an outright untruth ("you might not respect me very much") and then affirming that this is okay in order to confuse the mind.

My purpose in writing this endless series of responses, was to elaborate on the nature of this light covered by darkness which Fulcanelli speaks so much of. To explain that marcasite, or metalloids, or this or that material is only a part of the solution, and that there is a reason why the ambiguity is used. To explain that marcasite is only a gateway to a deeper understanding. But alas, some people are blinded by the light of the bright and morning star and don't want to go further. Thats fine. I won't bother continuing my discussion if you want to turn this board into your own personal soapbox.

Rebus7
08-02-2010, 12:39 PM
I want to express my gratitude both to Leo and Solomon, particularly, for their tireless and ongoing elucidation of the core concepts in Our Work during this year. These are indeed revelatory and unique times, but your inspiration I believe will lead to unique outcomes for the deserving and serving apprentices. I have contributed little or nothing to this forum up to now because I felt I had little to contribute, but your generous sharing of experience and understanding has re-enlivened my praxis after many years probing in the semi-dark. Thanks to all the contributors on this amazing forum. :)

Rebus7
08-04-2010, 02:52 AM
Hello Leo,

Can you tell me if you have had success personally using the pyrites marcasite as a magnet for our prima material?

LeoRetilus
08-04-2010, 07:30 AM
Hello Leo,

Can you tell me if you have had success personally using the pyrites marcasite as a magnet for our prima material?

Yes, using a process similar to Glauber's s Sweet Oil of Vitriol, but also working closer to that given in the Book of Abraham the Jew to bring it into the red work.

Rebus7
08-05-2010, 01:43 PM
Yes, using a process similar to Glauber's s Sweet Oil of Vitriol, but also working closer to that given in the Book of Abraham the Jew to bring it into the red work.
Thanks for the further clarification, Leo.
Although it turns out that finding a good local source of this magnet is not as easy as implied by our texts. It certainly isn’t always under our feet. After a fair amount of research, I appear to have found what appears to be an excellent source of plentiful quality marcasite, in northern New South Wales, some 800 miles away from where I live. I would imagine that the quality of the magnet nodules is paramount with the need for them to be unoxidized. It looks like a pilgrimage north may be my next move.

Click to see image (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/marcasiteoccurrence.jpg)