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JimmyThumbtack
10-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I've had interest in Symbolism for quite a while, so you all can understand that I was easily fascinated with Alchemy.
But when my research got further I didn't see some bland outdated science but something really spiritual and meaningful to me due to my past experience.

I've bin trying to translate the good old Nigredo Albedo Citrinitas Rubedo into simple alchemy symbols.
The first one being the symbol of putrefaction then the moon and the sun... but i can't seem to find any symbol representing rubedo. I thought of Venus... being the copper symbol ( red ) or Mercury being some Higher spiritual sign.

Thank you very much
If you can include images of the symbols ( if its hard to find ) it would be greatly appreciated too.

-JT

Aleilius
10-07-2010, 02:00 PM
The rubedo stage represents the Solar stage. It is represented by the symbol of Sol.

The black stage represents Saturn. The green/vegetative stage represents Venus. The white stage represents Luna. The red stage represents Sol.

JimmyThumbtack
10-07-2010, 10:52 PM
strange enough wikipedia seems to say that Albedo and Citrinitas represented respectively moon and sun, Whitening and yellowing.
For sure wikipedia is not the best source but still.
Someone has better source?

Aleilius
10-07-2010, 11:29 PM
strange enough wikipedia seems to say that Albedo and Citrinitas represented respectively moon and sun, Whitening and yellowing.
For sure wikipedia is not the best source but still.
Someone has better source?

You have been given the answers?

Seth-Ra
10-07-2010, 11:40 PM
Aleilius is correct - Black is Saturn, White is Moon, Red is Sun. Yellow isnt really a fair "intermediate phase" even, as its simply red spread thin. (condense the yellow, make the red)
The only intermediate phase color aside from the main 3 would be green which follows Black, and as Aleilius said - is Venus. (as far as i know.)

Keep in mind wiki ideas of alchemy are an "ok" place to start, but are by no means the most accurate - someone on the outside looking in (through a tented window no less) is not fully authoritative on the subject at hand. ;)


~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
10-08-2010, 12:13 AM
Greetings Jimmy.

My view concurs with Aleilius and Seth-Ra.
I think the green phase is more significant than yellowing.
You can see this emulated in the "Lions", green, white and red.

Images - I don't know if there are any simple direct images of each stage.
I mean, you find them scattered throughout various works.
Try googling alchemy images nigredo, etc..
But I'm not aware of any text expressing the whole art in four pictures/symbols.



Viridis

JimmyThumbtack
10-08-2010, 02:59 PM
So all of you would agree that the best way to represent the great work in four symbols would be to use Saturnus, Venus, Luna, Sol in that specific order?
It would make sense, but I'm still curious about the greening stage, haven't read much about it.
Whats its spiritual view... what does it represent?
Thank you very much.

-JT

EDIT: I've found info on the suppression of the yellowing stage, thanks alot.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11441835/The-Four-Stages-of-Alchemical-Work

solomon levi
10-08-2010, 04:41 PM
Yes, that's right.

Black - death - winter
Green - rebirth - spring
White - the stone at this stage can transmute base metals to silver - summer
Red/Purple - the stone is fully mature, transmutes base metals to gold - autumn


Spiritually, this green venusian stage is, in a word, rebirth, and the power of vegetative
growth which the stone now possesses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Empress_(Tarot_card)

Salazius
10-08-2010, 05:45 PM
Someone has better source?
Yes, lab work.

Grey is also considered to belong to Jupiter. It happens after green, and before white.

Concerning the green phase you can read my article on my blog here :
http://dartigne.blogspot.com/2010/06/green-opus.html

Albedo is for the Moon. Citrinitas is sometime linked to the Mercury phase, before the safran colour, linked to Mars, and then the Purple phase, for the Sun.

Seth-Ra
10-08-2010, 07:15 PM
Salazius makes a good point i had mentioned to Aleilius earlier, about yellow possibly representing mercury. I think alot of these intermediate color changes come from messing around with the Azoth picture and the 7 color rays of the magician's star. The main 3 phases are the Black, White, Red. The rest are intermediate, and though they represent subtle things in the work, the whole of the work is summed up in the 3. ;)


~Seth-Ra

JimmyThumbtack
10-08-2010, 11:05 PM
Resuming it with Saturn-Venus-Moon-Sun seems more accurate on a scientific point of view.

But I feel that resuming the magnum opus with Saturn-Moon-Mercury-Sun is more accurate on the phylosophical/spiritual side.

solomon levi
10-09-2010, 01:12 AM
But I feel that resuming the magnum opus with Saturn-Moon-Mercury-Sun is more accurate on the phylosophical/spiritual side.


Since this is symbology and we are speaking of spiritual/psychological things in this instance, I don't
intend to argue an interpretation. But in my knowledge and limited experience the mercury must still come
before the luna. The luna/white stage fixes/"coagulas" what the mercury "solved" - not the other way
around. Then the red is simply a coction and maturity of the white.

I guess it depends what mercury means to the individual. :)
What does it mean to you Jimmy?

sol

JimmyThumbtack
10-09-2010, 05:49 PM
Albedo is for the Moon. Citrinitas is sometime linked to the Mercury phase, before the safran colour, linked to Mars, and then the Purple phase, for the Sun.

I was just following the order of the great works phases.
And somehow thought it made sense, since mercury is already closer to the sun/god, etc. than Saturn.
I thought it was more of a straight foward gradation.
I'm no expert in the mather though, I find it just fascinating.

solomon levi
10-09-2010, 07:09 PM
Ok. I thought of one too. If we associate the stages with the elements moving from the most dense to the least,
I would also interpret the order: earth/saturn, water/luna, air/mercury, fire/sol.

Chenkel
12-02-2010, 11:33 PM
Have you considered using the bird symbolism? Sure, they don't tidy up into glyphs very nicely but it seems to be the way to go for many. http://whatisthepyramid.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/J.D.-Mylius-Opus-medico-chymic-1024x791.jpg

That way you can use the raven, dove/swan, phoenix for your standard three, and throw in your peacock, cockatrice, pelican, whatever for the intermediate stuff if you're so inclined. Using the planet/metal glyphs for this is problematic in my opinion for the same reason you mentioned. Rubedo without the citrinitas suppression throws a wrench in it (and I like keeping the citrinitas).

-C