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III
10-10-2010, 11:53 PM
How does one eat an elephant? One byte at a time.

I can't even define my terms in one post much less describe tantric alchemy so I will post some nibbles, bytes and words about the matter. If I can inspire some understanding that's good, if not, oh well.

I notice that there are some carry over posts from a previous form of the forum on the sex and alchemy topic. Sex is the most fearful topic that might be talked about here. It is certainly the most widely taboo in so many societies throughout the world. When I was about 8 or 9, and saw the sexual things I would be doing later in life, my opinion was the same as most kids of that age, YUCK! None of us are children so the view is different. I care not the least about cultural taboos. So I will speak about the nitty gritty facts here as best as I can put them into words, which may not suffice. I can't claim to be orthodox anything. I know what I know and I didn't learn it in this lifetime or from books. So any tantric practice I speak of is what I know and have known literally all my life and may have also read about. I am heterosexual and have no experience, knowledge or opinion about other aspects of sexual orientation on alchemy. I also, having spent most of this life as a systems analyst, tend to bring together all sorts of things from diverse areas and see how they fit together. As EJ Gold says "The secret keeps itself".

To keep things in perspective sex is used as part of a set of tools in tantra but tantra, in itself is a whole lot more than sex. It encompasses an entire alchemical system which includes the healing arts and arts in general, which because of the level of understanding of the world at the time when tantra got started, we are talking magik. One meaning of Tantra is "weaving", as in the tapistry of life. Another meaning of "Tantra" is that of a divine dialog on certain subjects. Between two alchemists it might be a channeled divine dialog usually portrayed as being between Shiva and Shakti on the topic of spitual matters and/or sex..

Any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic - Clarke's Law
Any sufficiently advanced magic looks like technology - Niven's reply

So we look at part of a reasonably complete tantric ritual. Tim Leary knew of what he spoke in stating the importance of set and setting. So in setting the mood, lighting is adjusted, incense and aroma oils may be heated or burned, physical cleansing rituals such as bathing and shaving may be performed. Then there is the tantric meal. In a vegetarian society one form of such a meal is one containing at least beef, fish and a whole grain dish, considered the aphrodisiac. Those of you who have not been lifelong vegetarians can't begin to know the effect such a meal can have on such a person. The traditional answer to why it has that effect is that overcoming taboo is liberating and generates power and energy. A modern answer however can explain the sometimes amazingly profound effect, NUTRITION. Specifically both natural immediately active forms of b12; adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin. In addition omega3 fishoils, the l-carnitine in the beef, and the b-vitamins contained in all items all contribute to what can be an amazing experience. About 1/2 of meat eaters are deficient enough in these b12s or cofactors to be affected by supplement pills of the right brands (only 2 of 10 brands tested work well) and types, taken the right way. This effect can literally floor a person as their mitochondria in body and brain all start putting out energy at full speed, the brain increases speed of transmission and signal strength increases. Also, every aspect of sexuality is enhanced from erectile tissues to possiblity and strength of orgasms and fertility itself. This combo is quite neuroactive. The brain wakes up. If this is being experienced in the set and setting of spiritual sexual experince it really brings a lot of bang to it. Daily use will heal potentially hundreds of symptoms for which there is no effective treatment.

Now for a few secondary considerations.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC425091/

Normal seminal unsaturated cobalamin-binding capacity averaged 15,030 +/- 7,290 pg/ml, of which 11,550 +/- 6,660 pg/ml was transcobalamin II. Transcobalamin II levels were markedly diminished in subjects lacking seminal vesicles (1520-1660 pg/ml), but not after vasectomy. This suggests that seminal vesicles are the chief source of this protein in semen. R binder concentration was increased in postvasectomy subjects (9,970 +/- 4,900 pg/ml vs. 2,980 +/- 1,370 pg/ml in normals) and varied in other patients. The endogenous cobalamin content of semen was only 88-699 pg/ml, and was carried largely by R binder rather than by transcobalamin II. The function of the unusually large seminal transcobalamin II pool in reproduction is unknown, but seems unlikely to be related solely to cobalamin transport needs, at least within the male reproductive tract itself.

The above quote of an abstract shows that the capacity of semen to carry b12 is huge but largely unfilled. Perhaps in the man whose system is saturated with b12 will put forth tremendously more b12 in semen. There is speculation of what all that binding cpacity is about, potentially allowing 100 to 1000 times as much b12 as occurs in a normal chronically deficienct population. Other studies have shown that vaginal absorbtion of testosterone takes place. B12 is absorbed very well by the oral mucosa, why not vaginal? It has been throrized that the relief from depression seen in partners of men who don't wear condoms occurs because of the testosterone absorbed vaginally. However, that takes a while to work. Active b12 absorbed mucosally can start affecting depression in 5-10 minutes as easily demonstrated sublingually.

As the b12 is not so much in the sperm itself, but the fluid the natural question to ask is whether the female orgasmic fluids (the "3 medicines" in Taoist alchemy) generated by comparable tissues as in the male, also contains b12. The presence of even these small amounts of b12 might make a noticable difference. The b12 might be the cause of the attributed "great energy", rather than or in addition to "imprinted energy" or just the shared energy of being deeply interpenetrated energetically with another person for some hours, of these fluids that are consumed in some alchemical rituals and of course in various forms of oral sex, done ritually or not. Again, in days of old when oral sex was most forbidden, breaking taboos is talked about as the source of energy. Today it is the norm and not taboo (in USA) and still big energy.

Then there is the tantric massage. This too is part of cleansing. In a tantric massage, one of the things that most people don't do in the course of ordinary sex is the massage of the underlying muscles and structures rather than stimulating the skin on the surface. One finds the "grains of rice" triggers that need to be released that most massage therapists will go nowhere near. In giving this kind of yoni (vulva) massage, or even a back massage (trauma triggers can be stored in all parts of the body), I have seen all sorts of trauma brought to the surface, relived and released. I have experienced, with ladies, childhood rape, kidnap and imprisonment in a large toolbox, rape and murder (past life), getting run through with a sword (past life, more than one), Nazi concentration camps and a variety of other unpleasant things, and seen them liberated from these things. In receiving such a massage I have suddenly remembered and released traumas of my own life. It's nothing one can plan, but just allows. Sometimes it just happens when things go right. Is massage work a part of tantric healing? YES! The important part is to be in a "erotic trance" rapport with the person.

A most excellent book and a totally free on line or download.
Indecent Practices and Erotic Trance: - Making Sense of Tantra
by John Ryan Haule
http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet.html

I'll leave it there for now.

III
10-13-2010, 07:34 PM
There are those who have wondered about how sex could have a role in alchemy. Personally, I don't get the external lab work and why and how that might allow one to grow and evolve, be transformed to a higher state. In tantric alchemy our bodies are our laboratories. Biochemical transformations happen within our bodies. We build "energy structures" by ourselves and with others and are transformed as we do so. As we progress we can open more and more complicated gates and gain the experience and knowlege behind them.

So in general terms how would I describe an alchemy? Using the macrodimensional labrynth and chamber terminolgy of EJ Gold I would say that it has a number of characteristics. Consider the labrynth to be a multidimension axis system. Instead of having x,y pairs as in a 2 dimensional system, or x,y,z in a 3 dimensional system, picture perhaps a 16 dimensional system so that each chamber has 16 coordinates. Each person has their "body of habits", sort of a holographic fractal that defines the persons characteristics. This is what we are working on changing. We do that by adding more territory to our ranges, clear out the impurities that are thereby revealed, change our "programming", and do a "save" to our self definition. As we purify and expand our being we climb the ladder to larger, purer, more enlightened being states. One of the practical effects is to expand the range of our potential lives. One starts remembering and becomes aware of recurrance, of recurring in variations of the same life over and over again. The variation of life we enter each time is that which will rub off our rough spots, challange our limitations, offer us growth opportunities. It becomes a conscious GROUNDHOG DAY instead of the unconscious GROUNDHOG DAY. As EJ says, right now everybody has eternal life in the worst posible way, the eternal life of involuntary recurrance in a limited life, over and over without memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return
Eternal return (also known as "eternal recurrence") is a concept which posits that the universe (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Universe) has been recurring, and will continue to recur, in a self-similar form an infinite (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Infinity) number of times. The concept initially inherent in Indian philosophy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Indian_philosophy) was later found in ancient Egypt (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Ancient_Egypt), and was subsequently taken up by the Pythagoreans (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Pythagoreans) and Stoics (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Stoics). With the decline of antiquity (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Classical_antiquity) and the spread of Christianity (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Christianity), the concept fell into disuse, though Friedrich Nietzsche (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Nietzsche) resurrected it.
In addition, the philosophical concept of eternal recurrence was addressed by Arthur Schopenhauer (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer). It is a purely physical (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Physics) concept, involving no supernatural reincarnation (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Reincarnation), but the return of beings in the same bodies. Time is viewed as being not linear (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Linear) but cyclical (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/wiki/Wheel_of_time).

All of this is done over and over, refinement via successive approximations. I don't agree with exactly how wikepedia is describing aspects of recurrance but it will do as an approximation. It clearly isn't a new idea and goes back at least to Egyptian alchemy. It becomes much easier to see how all the mechanisms work if one posits a non-dualist "Matrix" type virtual environment rather than an actual physical world. Recurring a million times or a billion times or more in all the possible variations of a life is easier to see how it happens if it is all in a virtual software holodeck and doesn't have to account for how it could happen in a physical environment.

Here is the problem, one can only go to (jaunt, borrowed from THE STARS MY DESTINATION - Alfred Bestor) the chambers one has been too already, reinforcing those but excluding all the others. Now it is possible for one person to take another to the chambers they know. It doesn't help that we each have blocked off most of our possible chambers by fears and avoidances so the initial work is to reattach to all of our blocked off aspects of self, to KNOW THY SELF, via refinement and purification as it might be called. This ability to take another to specific chambers (spaces) is one of the requirements for claiming something new, and 4 other "rules", as specified in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. So as one works closely with another person and becomes close coupled though sharing of all those energies and voyaging to all those other chambers your partner can enter but you can't, they become your own. After a while one has removed all the rough spots demonstrated by going into those chambers and in a very highly energetic "fusion" (I don't know what else to call it) an Alchemical union can occur. It is as if the amount of the labrynth that one can access is raised to the power of the other person's range creating a much larger span of possible "worlds" for both persons. This is symbolized in the alchemical union of Shiva and Shakti.

As the person makes more and more passes through their life certain things happen. As the person is changed by each pass, the output of one pass becomes input for the next, it takes on fractal chracteristics which is also described as holographic. Each part contains the whole, and as this is not a physical system there is no loss of resolution as one goes up and down in scale. The difference that makes it fractal is that the way the life affects one changes slightly each time because the experience of it is modified by the previous pass. When one can see the nature of the change each time and become aware of the change of the change of the change ad infintum, one has "solved" that specific axis and moves on to the next. Consciousness of the process changes the process and makes it easier to cooperate with it.

I know I haven't done a very good job at describing this and others do so in much more detail in lots of books. However, pragmatically speaking it does work. I had many built in assumptions of duality that caused me all sorts of problems despite having accepted non-dual intellectually. This all seems quite built in to the COS (Cosmic Operating System as a convienient shorthand) and so is available as one of those "shared subconscious archetypes" Jung spoke of.

The key to it all is learning to pay attention to things normally ignored so automatically and thoroughly it isn't even perceived.

In recurrance then, precognition is merely remembering things from other passes through this life that are similar enough to ring the bell. Intuition becomes a less clear memory of the past. Consider Phil in Groundhog Day. He learns that day and himself in all the many variations very deeply. So dreaming of driving off a cliff because of going too fast and the next day finding ones self in a car approaching that cliff and recognizing it allows one to slow down and live this time. Maybe it takes going off the cliff 500 times until the memory clicks in time and the choice is immediately made to change how one is driving is needed. When one consciously remembers and realizes what these experiences are, the rate of change picks up.

The only thing we can actually change is ourself. Our whole experience follows from that. We change ourselves and our perceived world changes. When one makes a real change in this way the effects occur immediately. Aiming for specific outcomes distorts the results and results in ego disasters. Changing self towards the divine works out better.

In this system it is easy to get started and get results. The main problem is that most folks just don't want to see themselves in divine clarity. It destroys their mythology, their dreams and their wants, their fears and their nightmares.

The commonest objection to adding new territory is that "But that isn't me" objection when a new understanding or choice pops up. If changes are not accepted they are lost and have to happen over and over until they take.

III
10-14-2010, 09:42 PM
What I say here is nobody's orthodoxy. Anybody else writing from their own experience and understanding will use their words their way. The challange is to be able to map meaning across such gaps and make them meaningful to one's self and others.

I would say that there are multiple stages to this process. So, you wake up dead one day. Denial does no good. As has been described in all sorts of fiction and nonfiction suddenly one finds oneself being bathed in high intensity light and observed by some perceivable consciousness; the infamous "life review" or whatever you want to call it. The divine light brings illumination. The automatic tendency is to deny the things about one's self that are being seen. These things are often so painful to see a person dives back into life, an involuntary rebirth yet again, to get away from it and if remembered in an NDE then it is often as "I still have work to do" or "it wasn't my time yet as I am not done" or lots of other similar variations or even "They kicked me out".

So in order to get anywhere one has to be able to face illumination without objection. That usually takes a lot of work and purification. This isn't about size or shape or any of those considerations. It's just that when the truth is seen, we are not what we think we should be and the automatic response is to deny and run. These things take a long time to build up protecting us from the TRUTH about ourselves. I don't know that it really matters what form the purification takes. There are lots of methods used through the ages. Whatever it takes for one to accept the truth of divine illumination concerning our self is what is needed. What does it take to clear fears and traumas? A work group is often useful at this point. If this is done in a mutual admiration society nobody gets anywhere. No matter how it is performed it requires us to examine our foundations and clean ourselves up. Tantric practice works well in this.

The basic meditation practice in yoga describes the mind as pond. When it is totally stilled it becomes the mirror of truth in which we see ourselves. It is described that first one sees the boulders falling in and making great waves, then when those are cleared a smaller size. This goes all the way down to fine sand that makes the tiniest of ripples before finally being cleared. However it is done one must be able to find and release the triggers that disturb the mind with unconscious reactions. The purpose is to wake up and start being conscious instead of being thrown into unconscious reaction patterns often laid down as a child when anything that goes counter to our beliefs about ourself is threatening to be revealed. Once a person has awakened and isn't thrown back into sleep by every little thing then the next stage of work can begin. Tantric sex can work as a focusing and awakening mechanism as can other things. Just try to remain focused without a break in focus for a few minutes much less a few hours. It is deceptively difficult. In Tantric practice, breaks in attention make entering "erotic trance" most difficult. It's might be more difficult to maintain a prayerful focus on the "lower gate of heaven" (yoni) or lingam ("wand of light") for an hour than you might think, for all participants. The OneTaste (slow sex) folks limit their "orgasmic meditation" sessions, at least for beginners, to 20 minutes.

As energies are shared, as two people's triggers and blocks are not in the exactly same area, the energies flowing hit the blockage/trigger and trigger a reaction which then makes the blockage/trigger available for observation and removal. As these are removed we recover memories and cutoff parts of our self. From time to time we have to be "reborn" with a differnt setup as too many things accumulate. Our basis is different each time. After enough of ourselves are reclaimed we will be able to see the non-dominant half of ourself and join the two parts in alchemical marriage. Now this is just my description. Others may describe it differently. At this point that "One" being can be encapsulated, an object, a "base class" that is the basis of what occurs next and we proceed to use that as a building block building a larger fractal starting with this "One" as a seed. There are multiple ways to do this sort of like oragami starts with a sheet of paper and ends up with many different architectures. Different sequences come out with different results. At some point that sequence ends and you end up with another larger more complex "One" which again becomes the base class, the seed of the next level of fractal. This sequence is repeated with systematic changes over and over producing a sort of crystaline fractal that is the definintion of self. At the completetion of each sequence or sequence of sequences another one starts. As we start out really quite tiny in the scheme of things such growth of being can go on for a very considerable period.

And this is a good demonstration of how we see things based on our archetype variations. For instance, at the end of each sequence (cycle) I see the "shape" I have become and a "substance". There was a sequence of shapes. They appear to be made of the same "material" for the entire sequence. Then when that larger sequence is completed the shapes start over at the beginning but the next time they are a "denser" "material" which means "larger" in certain ways. So perhaps they start at "paper", then cardboard, then wood, then colors, then maybe a progression of metals, then jewels, then optic fiber or whatever. It's as if each time through it gets larger/denser, or has a greater information capacity or something. So one has a sequence of "materials" each of which contains a sequence of shapes, each of which contains a sequence of steps. The terms "notes" and "octaves" are often applied. Each time an octave is made, that becomes the new "step" size for the next larger octave. I see it in terms that make sense to me in conveying a greater carrying capacity of energy and/or information (material) and complcation/dimensionality (shape). Somebody else might see exactly the same information in a somewhat different way. "Gold" and "silver" and others seems to carry across lots of different ways of seeing it. But the form and context varies. I have seen alchemical sequences that are numbered, alphabets including ancient ones, symbols that are mysterious, at least to me which could also be ancient alphabets or ideograms or icons or whatever and I didn't have the context to interpret them. Sometimes things just don't translate to one's own context well. This makes comparing notes with other alchemists difficult. It seems to be an important aspect of teaching an apprentice is to establish a common vocabulary via books and shared and discussed experiences so when one asks "You know what I mean" and the other person doesn't look at you blankly but instead can say "yes" and be correct.

An alchemical sequence, once it is worked out appears to reside in the COS (Cosmic Operating System) DLLs otherwise known as the "shared subconcious archetypes" and is available to anybody who looks. As Patanjali made quite clear in declaring the 5 rules for claiming something new is that there are no secret places and that another skilled in the art has to be able to travel there with you and it must be teachable. "Pretend" places can be secret, places nobody else can go and can never go and that are not teachable. That doesn't mean that all real locations are easy. It only takes one perhaps very skilled fellow traveler to confirm existance of a new place.

Much of the problem comes down to comunicating. Two alchemist may be doing exactly the same thing and yet not understand each other in the least. It's difficult enough when all are trying to communicate as clearly as possible. When language becomes too deep in symbolism, intentional obfuscation, euphemisms and jargon it gets outright messy. So if somebody says "Get your euphemism in here right euphemism now and climb on my euphemism and euphemism the euphemism until my euphemism euphemisms" who knows what is actually being said. Have you read THE SACRED MUSHRROM AND THE CROSS by John Allegro. He is a linguist and points out that becasue aramaic has no vowels that the new testement can be read as a manual for use of sacred mushrooms, the Jesus Christ mushrooms of course. In the intoduction he cautions about taking the book too seriously but that it can be read that way because of the ambiguity in the language. It's a fascinating book.

solomon levi
10-15-2010, 01:36 AM
Sorry I don't have much to add.
Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading it.
And I second your view on THE SACRED MUSHROOM AND THE CROSS by John Allegro.

III
10-19-2010, 10:57 PM
Consider the difference between "immortal" life and "eternal" life. "Immortal" is not what the alchemist gets. "Immortal", literally without death, is not something we even can have as far as I know. There is no evidence for that as being an option. "Eternal" life is something achievable, in which one continues consciously. Recurrance fits right into that. Consider Groundhog Day. One of the things an alchemist can do is learn to dodge all those things that would normally kill one off, one way or another. We live a multitude of variations, learning to overcome or avoid all the death situations allowing one to reach the full extent of that life. And in doing that were are also changing ourselves. One might have a billion or one hundred billion years or more of experience in all the variations of a lifetime. It completely removes the intellectual objection that there are not enough lifetimes of human experience if lived purely sequentitally for more than a million or so years of human experience. As there is only one cosmic instant and all time takes place simultaniously, this ability to recurr within the same life in endless variations is the key to building the huge experience needed for evolution. Those who throw out the whole "wheel of life" ideas of millions and millions of reincarnations because there are not enough possible lives for that to occur just are not thinking in terms of reincarnating over and over in the same lifetime.

RECURRANCE EXPERIENCES in action -

My wife and I had just moved into an apartment in SLC. Our furniture was in storage in another city. We were exercising in the livingroom with nothing but a stereo in it. We were playing YES "Close to the Edge". Half way through the track there was a knock on the door. We both got up off the floor and walked over and opened the door. There were two men unknown to me standing there. One of them raised an automatic pistol and shot me in the head. My wife saw that and saw me go down before her memory goes black. The next thing ei ther of us knows is that were on the floor regaining consciousness and CLOSE TO THE EDGE was starting over. The immediate words out of my wifes mouth were "Don't open the door". We then discussed the experience which we both remembered.

Eight months later I was skiing at Alta. I crossed by tips on an icy traverse and fell all the way down Sunspot, a west facing high bowl. It was a spectacular fall and I was doing doing end over end flips in the air only touching slightly as I rolled down the slope at high speed. My hat, sunglasses, gloves and poles were left all over the slope. I landed on my back head down just as I reached the rocks. Suddenly everything went black but I was still conscious. There were two presences asking me if this was a suicide attempt of any kind or would I be willing to go back to the same life. I said "Not suicide" and "I'll be glad to go back to the same life". One presence asked "where should we put him down?". The other one said "How about here". At that I found myself flying along 6 inches off the snow at about 40mph and came in for a gentle sliding landing at right angle to a couple of hundred yards and 200 feet of vertical, away from the rocks. A dozen people watched me tumble down the slope. They all looked away as I was about to hit the rocks. I went in for a hot chocolate to contemplate how I could possibly still be alive. This was the second time in 8 months. "Not a dent in the fender, not a scratch on the paint" to quote Phil the Weatherman in Groundhog Day. Since then I have had many many such experiences. I don't believe in miracles, espcially not in the same kind over and over. If it happens repeatedly it's not a system exception, it's normal system functioning. Since then I have spoken to hundreds of people who with a little prodding remember similar "too strange to think about" occurances. These can be full blown death experiences or just "discontinuities". For instance two people park the car. The go to get it where they both remember it. It isn't there. Hours of searching later they find the car a mile down the beach, or a different level of the parking garage or a different parking garage or a different parking lot at the airport. If it is just one person they figure they must have misremembered it. With two, such as with my wife, notes can be compared.

My two daughters were in the car with grandparants. The driver doesn't see the light change, goes through the red. They get hit. Suddenly they come to and find themselves stopped back at the light. The grandparents noticed nothing. Both my daughters told me about the experience.

A friend of mine had been telling me for years about the way to die is to go into the woods at 100mph. One day we were talking about these types of occurances. He said back in high school, his senior year after I had gone off to college. He was out with a girl I knew. He was driving along River Road MUCH too fast. He remembers going into the woods at near 100mph. The next instant he opens his eyes and his car is sitting in the middle of the road sideways and the ignition is turned off. He starts the car and drives off and the girl just sits there shaking and won't talk about it.

So, recurrance is an interesting hypothesis. It was interesting to run across it long after I had been experiencing it. It is the only description I have run across that fits my experience, which doesn't go away no matter how one might want to explain it out of existance. I can only change myself, as is the case of each of us. We can however, exchange information. We weave the tapistry of our life by passage through it's many varations over and over.

Ghislain
10-20-2010, 07:17 AM
We weave the tapistry of our life by passage through it's many varations over and over.

Is there an ultimate goal...or does one weave for the sake of weaving?

The reason I ask this is that, at any point, if one should stop weaving then this would become the norm;
as though one had never woven in the first place.

Is that here and now?

I am sort of playing devils advocate as the reason I am here at all is because the average life
span of seventy years seems to be laid out in short as:

Childhood – - parents looking after you and no worries
Teenage - - - have fun and find out a few things outside of the parent box.
Adulthood - - settle down, find a partner, have children and set the whole process in motion again
Retired - - - - help keep the momentum going in the process started in Adulthood then die.

In between the categories above there can be:
Fun, love, laughter, sadness, sorrow, pain...blah blah blah...I mean etc...:)

As all the above emotions can be reproduced chemically...\o/ what is the point?

I cannot find a satisfactory explanation for the reason of life in the above and thus I search for a
better answer.

If life is fractal then right here and now is as good a place as any, is it not?
Also does this imply that no matter how long we weave we never reach a
destination?

I apologise that all I have is questions and no answers.

Am I missing the point? :(

Ghislain

III
10-21-2010, 01:19 AM
Is there an ultimate goal...or does one weave for the sake of weaving?

The reason I ask this is that, at any point, if one should stop weaving then this would become the norm;
as though one had never woven in the first place.

Is that here and now?

I am sort of playing devils advocate as the reason I am here at all is because the average life
span of seventy years seems to be laid out in short as:

Childhood – - parents looking after you and no worries
Teenage - - - have fun and find out a few things outside of the parent box.
Adulthood - - settle down, find a partner, have children and set the whole process in motion again
Retired - - - - help keep the momentum going in the process started in Adulthood then die.

In between the categories above there can be:
Fun, love, laughter, sadness, sorrow, pain...blah blah blah...I mean etc...:)

As all the above emotions can be reproduced chemically...\o/ what is the point?

I cannot find a satisfactory explanation for the reason of life in the above and thus I search for a
better answer.

If life is fractal then right here and now is as good a place as any, is it not?
Also does this imply that no matter how long we weave we never reach a
destination?

I apologise that all I have is questions and no answers.

Am I missing the point? :(

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain,

Scratch an alchemist, reveal a philosopher. It's not any safer. Both have been tortured and killed by those who don't approve.

Is there an ultimate goal...or does one weave for the sake of weaving?

Let's consider the situation. Does one live for the sake of living? We each have consciouness, now and eternally. In GROUNDHOG DAY the question is asked "So this is what you do with eternity?"

Eternal life is not immortal life. We all die over and over. One can spend a long time being upset over this death or that death, to no avail. So one might be pissed off over being burned at the stake but it doesn't help to stay upset over it. It doesn't pay to try to destroy the instution that did it to you (ie the inquisition or nazis or whatever) because for one thing, they don't last. Maybe the pope will appologize, lot of good it would do, in some century for the inquisition burning lots of us at the stake seven centuries ago, murdering an estimated 8 million "pagan" women plus uncounted male companians (not husbands as they were not christian married) and children but not including gnostics, Cathers, Essenes and other heretics, some day, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Based on the percentage of population of the earth at the time the church may be the largest mass murderer of all time but may only be number two. In terms of todays population that would be the equivalent of murdering half a billion or so. Spread the religion by exterminating the competition becasue it worked better than talking at them, quite a strategy. Some foundation for a "spiritual" organization. The nazis with similar tactics caused such revulsion that they ceased to exist as a state very quickly.

So the question comes down to what does one do with eternity. Is there a purpose? On a huge scale perhaps the purpose is to allow the Absolute itself to evolve or maybe even survive? Is it subject to predation from other bubble universes that somehow learn of other bubbles and "eats" them? How can the Absolute evolve to deal with that? So you think WE have problems? On a smaller scale what is the purpose of human life?

In between the categories above there can be: Fun, love, laughter, sadness, sorrow, pain...blah blah blah...I mean etc...:)

There is no fanfare of trumpets or flashing lights saying "this is the purpose of life". However, in the Monty Python movie of that name they take a pretty good shot at it and make a statement in the middle of the movie about the developement of a soul through specific conscious attention and then everybody gets immediately distracted and it is never mentioned again. If there is a purpose that would have to get my vote. We have attention and consciousness and the ability to work with LOVE. Using these we can construct a soul if you wish to call it that. The experience of Fun, love, laughter, sadness, sorrow, pain...blah blah blah...I mean etc...:) is perhaps what it is all about. Through experience we learn compassion among other things. Experience with consciousness and attention is far more effective at building a soul (self, body of habits, etc) than sleepwalking through life which does very little in that regard.

The reason I ask this is that, at any point, if one should stop weaving then this would become the norm; as though one had never woven in the first place.

Nope. Once a real change is made it has ALWAYS been that way. There is no preservation of prior state, only NOW. Unsaved changes will be lost. Writebacks only occur occasionally. The real change is stored in our "outside of time" "soul" and so affects us at all times in our lives. If we stop making changes it doesn't undo what we have already done. There is no undo. Also, as I follow the way of ordinary life I am just living a life, you know "chop wood, carry water". My relationships are a little different. They are either fairly distant or very deep. Occasionally I run into situations in which I can help a person out with a hint or shaktipat or whatever. More rarely somebody needs real help and that takes a lot longer. My friends are those I am working with. What I want from life has gotten a lot simpler. So I don't know if it is ever possible to actually stop weaving. The process keeps on ticking no matter what I do. I cooperate with it as everything goes better if I do.

Is that here and now?

There is nothing but now. So here you are right now. You have memory of a life you have lived. Maybe you also have memory of hundreds of lives you have lived. Can you tell the difference between what you walked through to aquire the memories versus having just awakened one day with all of them in your memory? Is there a difference? Did you really live any of them? The problem is raised in TOTAL RECALL. If any changes of how you would be occur whether you walk through the life one day at a time or you load them wholesale is there a difference? How can one ever tell? In SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE the protagonist wakes up in various periods of his life out of sequence. Is that fiction or can it happen here? I've experienced it. Sometimes a lot, sometimes only once or twice at a time. There was one particularly bad year I had healthwise and I had a couple of dozen "NDE" experiences, including several from which I returned, eventually, totally changed.

If life is fractal then right here and now is as good a place as any, is it not? Also does this imply that no matter how long we weave we never reach a destination?

As the fractal that is our self grows, so does our understanding. How much understanding is too much? Is there a limit of understanding that is a final destination? Getting "there" is all the fun because, like said of downtown Oakland, there is no there there. However, some of life becomes very accelerated. I started learning to ski at 15. At 19 I was teaching skiing part time after school each day and at 21 I was a professional ski patrolman at one of the toughest mountains in the USA. I bought my first SLR 35mm camera freshman year of college. Second semester freshman year I was president of the camera club, the only freshman president in the entire school. A year later I was a professional wedding, forensic and insurance photographer and I photographed more than 100 weddings before it came to an end, along with my professional level skiing when a hardware store van ran a red light and broke me in half sideways a few years later. One thing I have learned in this is, that the faster ones solves the problems the faster they come at you. So what is the destination? Death? Every time I die I eventually end up right back here. It is always temporary.

As all the above emotions can be reproduced chemically...\o/ what is the point?

Can they? I am experienced as Hendrix asked. I used to guide many folks through "death" experiences that were aided by high dose acid, sunshine, 'srooms, cactus etc. as well as endogenous chemicals generated in tantric sex. The tantric sex works much better in that you have to start where you are and work through it all whereas people who actually accomplish work with the chemicals may find it takes 10-20 years of work to hook up with that because they neglected their foundations by skipping all that lower level stuff powered by drugs. One doesn't learn how operate their own emotional system with drugs.

I cannot find a satisfactory explanation for the reason of life in the above and thus I search for a better answer.

I don't know that I can give you a satisfactory answer either. I am not a philosophical hedonist. The best I can come up with is "experience" which can include virtually everything life throws at one. It most certainly includes sex and the removal of barriers between people who can then learn to cooperate deeply. I think celibacy is often a copout, at least in those that I have met. It removes one entire section of life from experience and nothing else substitutes for it. Maybe those doing so have already dealt with all that in another life or will in a future one, I don't know. Remember however, I am building a structure which requires soundness and balance to work, rather than just removing blocks. Being a vegetarian almost killed me and destroyed most of what was important in my life. From the first day I could feel the changes. My spiritual vegetarian friends said "Spiritually necessary, toxins leaving, becoming purified". Unfortunately it was vitality leaving my body at a high rate. The only toxins involved was their BS. Hearing similar reasoning for celibacy makes me laugh. Now I go look for myself, and enjoy a medium rare chateau briand with the trimmings with my alchemical partner as part of a ritual meal prior to a session of Alchemical sex.

What do you want out of life? What do you enjoy? What do you fear? What do you find interesting? "Interesting" holds up better than most things. Find "work necessity" in life and use it. Do what you do with enthusiasm.

By all means enjoy life and have plenty of experience. Go to a nudist club and face your fears. Take up skydiving and/or scuba diving and face your fears. Jump off a cornice into deep powder on a high cirque. Take up Alchemical sex. Have fun. Use those experiences in your alchemy.

III
10-22-2010, 06:40 PM
Hi Ghislain,

I cannot find a satisfactory explanation for the reason of life in the above and thus I search for a better answer.

I had a few more thoughts about your comments that I decided to add this way. I honestly can't say that anybody should actually practice Alchemy. Those that I know that have done so were all desparate. For me that desparation was to find out why life was clobberring me. I had an abusive and later on psychotic mother. I was sick all the time. It was a very Buddhist thing, "Life is sufferring". At some point I decided I had to know what was causing all this, what made it necessary for my life to be miserable. It expanded from there as I kept looking at larger and larger scales.

There is no going back. I've never wanted to and neither has anybody else I know who has made the choice. However, it isn't ever what one would expect. You can't know what it is like until you take that step, and that is true over and over.

Whatever, one finds in the way of TRUTH, doesn't change anything. We still end up in this world with whatever goes on here still going on. We merely have different explanations that start sounding like speculative quantum physics crossed with advaitist mysticism, such as in WHAT THE BLEEP, DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE.

So let's have a trumpet fanfare and flashing lights because here is the best I can do in the moment about the reason for life. I don't find it very satisfying and maybe I'll have some other thoughts on it. So let's take a look at the metaphyscial structure of creation first. Here we are in a perceived universe with Kundalini and humans and life and all that. It's what we all see all around us. This appears to be cut off as a little selfcontained bubble separated by what looks like a speed of light barrier from the much larger eternal creation. This speed of light barrier is what separates us from the "eternal moment". It's what gives us the the abilty to stretch out the one cosmic instant into an infinity of time, general relativity and time dialation. In the cosmic instant nothing can change. If somehow it does, it has always been that way. Here, in this part of creation is where changes can be made, where evolution of consciousness can happen. Change flows up from here. Things that might appear to take years or millenia here make instantaneous changes in the cosmic instant. In his book, LIFE IN THE LABRYNTH EJ Gold wrote a poem about this called AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. I know of no better or more explicit or better said book about our situation. All of this is the manifest. There is of course the VOID filled with all the unrealized quantum possibility and no thing at all but there isn't much we can do with that. Others have said that what we see as matter is simply massively slowed down light, petrified light as it were. If the Absolute can change and evolve it has to happen here, where the rubber meets the road. We humans are the vehicle of change by each of us taking one very small byte of the elephant and having infinite time to process it. It is all quite impossible until it is done. The meditative approach is to know the TRUTH passively. The alchemist dedicates their life to act upon it and not be passive. The COS (Cosmic Operating System) can't be changed in the place where no change is possible. Here where we each contain (fractal) a copy of the COS we can get in and examine the pieces of it and make minute changes, each change below the level of perception at the Cosmic level. Billions of humans are each running a slightly different version of the COS, debugging it. If we are successful at that changing we pass that back upstream and the Cosmic level is changed. Does this give us a purpose or is it just too abstract? We can change ourselves, nothing else. We can examine how our own programming interacts with the variation of the COS we have and change that. Saying "That's not fair" doesn't get us anything except clobbered. If we debug our programming and occasionally a change in our own version of the COS life might get better, or not. If one is pursuing outcomes usually dictated by ego one makes bad choices in shaping ourself.

So let's say one wants a common ego goal, "be rich". The system can be very accomodating. One changes oneself so that the life that fits us best will be one that includes wealth. We may not like all the side effects of being changed for wealth since we were not making our choices in terms of changes in self but rather changes in self were dictated by ego preferred outcome. For me to have "health" I had to find the reasons my DNA coding wasn't finding this environment health producing. I changed my self where necessary and learned what the environment wasn't supplying for my body's needs. I found that I needed larger quantities of natural b12 and a few other things. It might sound trivial but it wasn't since it went contrary to "Everything the scientists and doctors know about b12". They were wrong. In order to find this I had to grow and evolve and change enough to be able to see the whole pattern and find the bug despite the consensus to the contrary. I set out metaphysically to find out why my life was so troubled and found something I could change. In effect I also changed a little piece of the COS "below" which when I upload it at death may help evolve the "above".

Whether life's existance as a mechanism of change is a satisfying explanation I can't tell you. Within my life I have all sorts of experience that causes change. To a large extent I can choose expereinces in tune with the needs of the system and when I do that life goes better without all the headbutting with the system. The better I understand the system the more freedom I have. As some will say it leads to liberation from having to be here. In the meantime I have an Alchemical partner with whom I live in a shared world and am not alone. While we are both parts of the one, we are different parts and can share those differences causing growth and evolution for both of us.

solomon levi
10-23-2010, 12:26 AM
Resonating very much with your last post III. :)

Of course, it is only the mind that assumes there is a reason for life.
It's very difficult in my experience. To have a purpose is so comforting.
But we must see that if life has a purpose it is already dead, not life.
The truth is, we are free - there is no purpose, make your own if you like.
For humans this freedom is very disturbing; it is unwanted, and yet sought for desperately.
But when we find that we are free, we rush back to our limitations to extend the dream for just a while longer.
I wish I had something more pleasant to report. But freedom is the stone we have rejected. Freedom is satan.
It is the most frightening thing this ego has ever seen. How to go against self-preservation? We have to see
that this little self is not the Self, and we have to fix that dream and make this ego-dream volatile.
This is only for the insane. :D

Andro
10-23-2010, 01:18 AM
Dear Sol,

Absolutely. Every word you wrote above. You have put it coherently and in few words.


How to go against self-preservation?

Chose death :eek:

Quoth Janis: "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

solomon levi
10-23-2010, 01:41 AM
Androgynus.
/heart icon/
Or, as the Na'vi would say, "I see you" :)

Yes, it is odd that death has been made an enemy to be feared.
Everything is backwards here. Sanity is insane.

horticult
10-23-2010, 03:37 PM
Anybody did experience a pretty impressive feeling of God´s /angel/ presence triggered by flame of a candle? Or by paying attention on "borders" of sounds, consciousness...

III
10-23-2010, 06:16 PM
Resonating very much with your last post III. :)

Of course, it is only the mind that assumes there is a reason for life.
It's very difficult in my experience. To have a purpose is so comforting.
But we must see that if life has a purpose it is already dead, not life.
The truth is, we are free - there is no purpose, make your own if you like.
For humans this freedom is very disturbing; it is unwanted, and yet sought for desperately.
But when we find that we are free, we rush back to our limitations to extend the dream for just a while longer.
I wish I had something more pleasant to report. But freedom is the stone we have rejected. Freedom is satan.
It is the most frightening thing this ego has ever seen. How to go against self-preservation? We have to see
that this little self is not the Self, and we have to fix that dream and make this ego-dream volatile.
This is only for the insane. :D

Hi Solomon Levi,

Freedom is satan.

That I don't get at all. However, I have never incorprated a belief system that includes satan and have never seen a trace of any such thing in all my experience.

When one enters into the Work, one takes on what might be called "fast karma" and freedom comes from clearing ones karma. This understanding came well after the fact of it during a series of metaphyscial discussions with my jnana Yogi friend.

solomon levi
10-23-2010, 07:59 PM
Hi III.

I guess that could use some explanation. :)
Satan is the same archetype as Saturn, Kali, Siva... they are destroyers of order/ego, seen often as negative/evil,
(everything is backwards) but truly the only path to freedom. Satan supposedly tempts us to do what we should not do -
to break laws, rules, limits, taboos - things that give order through limitation.

I do not mean to say I believe in a satan being. It is more impersonal, scientific - the force of solve/volatility/centrifugal/chaos...

I do not see it is possible to clear one's karma. But one can kill the ego to whom the karma belongs (that is, realize its illusory nature).
Freedom or enlightenment or moksha is not achieved linearly through time, but realized instantaneously, doing nothing. :)
Karma is another law that can be broken when we see there is no doer.
I mean no disrespect, but i hope that people will not waste their time with karma.
The path of karma in the arena of karma is endless; like the ego trying to kill the ego.
The consciousness that created a problem must evolve to solve the problem.
The "problem" cannot be solved with the same consciousness.
Karma cannot be solved by good deeds.
Karma ceases when the doer ceases.

solomon

III
10-23-2010, 08:45 PM
Resonating very much with your last post III. :)

Of course, it is only the mind that assumes there is a reason for life.
It's very difficult in my experience. To have a purpose is so comforting.
But we must see that if life has a purpose it is already dead, not life.
The truth is, we are free - there is no purpose, make your own if you like.
For humans this freedom is very disturbing; it is unwanted, and yet sought for desperately.
But when we find that we are free, we rush back to our limitations to extend the dream for just a while longer.
I wish I had something more pleasant to report. But freedom is the stone we have rejected. Freedom is satan.
It is the most frightening thing this ego has ever seen. How to go against self-preservation? We have to see
that this little self is not the Self, and we have to fix that dream and make this ego-dream volatile.
This is only for the insane. :D

Hi Solomon Levi,

I intend to reply a little more completely here beyond my one liner in the previous. Much of this is probably merely negotiation of meaning; perhaps coming to an agreement of what is meant by certain words used in various ways.

The truth is, we are free -

I think that can stand on itself. We are free, once we can see that.

there is no purpose, make your own if you like.

In terms of human purposes that is largely correct. The purpose that this bubble of spacetime has with us humans is something that is a little hard to wrap around unless one can see it as a whole from "above". It appears to function as a "change" generator allowing a sheltered workshop as it were for conscious beings to develop, grow and eventually, leave (graduate?) carrying inovations of structure and intelligence to be carried up to the unchanging. We are self designing self actualizing intellegences. Many of the macroconsciousness' one might run into in the macrodimensions are really quite stupid. They might be large and powerful but many are really quite stupid. Quite a few of them might even be insane as the gnostics maintained, that earth was being overseen by a mad "demiurge". There is a whole lot of conscious existance after we exit earth based life. While we get larger there, the ability to design our self, our intelligence, our basis of sanity, is here. This is where we come back to after bugs have been revealed by our expansion. So within a life the purpose is to have experiences, unspecified as to type, that reveals the bugs and allows us to fix them. Somehow that doesn't seem very satisfying because we are not told what to do or how. It is up to us to figure it out. That is our freedom. The mythologies that says we MUST do it this way with this belief or that based on hearsay from some authority's interpretation of what somebody said 100 or 1000 or 10,000 years ago are just mythologies. As we ARE the results of earlier stages of evolution, retracing previous steps endlessly and mindlessly doesn't pay off. Out of earths billions, only a few (compared to billions) will succeed with furthering evolution as a whole with innovations. Many will fill in details of many variations and most won't succeed in even producing a permanently existing consciousness.


How to go against self-preservation?

If by this you mean the self-preservation of the petty ego sure, but if you mean the making of the real SELF that becomes part of the macro eternal system that is something else entirely, and as I understand it is the purpose of Alchemy.

But freedom is the stone we have rejected

Yes, it is. Rejected because a myth (faith) is less scary and more comforting. TRUTH is most uncomfortable in what it tells us about ourselves and the situation.

This is only for the insane

That is a matter of definition. I would have said that this is only for the sane and that somebody who bases their life on belief systems that don't correspond with how things work are the insane, though maybe non-sane is a more meaningful word in this context.

AWAKEN from the dream. That is what is sane.

III
10-24-2010, 01:06 AM
Hi III.

I guess that could use some explanation. :)
Satan is the same archetype as Saturn, Kali, Siva... they are destroyers of order/ego, seen often as negative/evil,
(everything is backwards) but truly the only path to freedom. Satan supposedly tempts us to do what we should not do -
to break laws, rules, limits, taboos - things that give order through limitation.

I do not mean to say I believe in a satan being. It is more impersonal, scientific - the force of solve/volatility/centrifugal/chaos...

I do not see it is possible to clear one's karma. But one can kill the ego to whom the karma belongs (that is, realize its illusory nature).
Freedom or enlightenment or moksha is not achieved linearly through time, but realized instantaneously, doing nothing. :)
Karma is another law that can be broken when we see there is no doer.
I mean no disrespect, but i hope that people will not waste their time with karma.
The path of karma in the arena of karma is endless; like the ego trying to kill the ego.
The consciousness that created a problem must evolve to solve the problem.
The "problem" cannot be solved with the same consciousness.
Karma cannot be solved by good deeds.
Karma ceases when the doer ceases.

solomon

Hi Solomon,

What I see here are merely descriptive/interpretive differences. Nothing we say affects what is.

The path of karma in the arena of karma is endless; like the ego trying to kill the ego.

Of course it is. Perhaps I should define my terms better. What we are is what we are. Our "karma" is inherent in what we are as the running total of all that has shaped us before. In a rebirth (recurrent or reincarnation, doesn't matter) the variation of the world we perceive is based on that structure. Our fears, our blocks, our taboos, our being all contributes to the perceived version of the world we find ourselves in. Karma per se can never be cleared as it is our very nature. However, used in a more common usage, the fears, the blocks, the intentional or accidental self blinding can be cleared and faulty structures changed as contributing factors to evolution, and that can happen more quickly, be sped up by cooperating with the process rather than denying and fighting against it. While one still has karma as that is a condition of life, it isn't a troublesome karma.

Satan supposedly tempts us to do what we should not do -to break laws, rules, limits, taboos - things that give order through limitation

Ahha, the mythology handed on by those who would keep us trapped and blind. So the rules, laws, limits, taboos and the like that say "Celibacy is required for spiritual growth" serves to keep us trapped for instance. There are good reasons to be careful in the practice tantric sex as getting a disease isn't a great idea. As "reflection" is a very real occurance here, if someone is nasty towards people they will tend to be nasty towards that person in return. I practice love, kindness, forgiveness, non-judgementalness and all that NOT because somebody's rules or laws say I should but because that is how I am and that is also how I would prefer to be treated. I make mistakes as does everybody.

In college I was an anti war protester before it was popular. Individuals and groups of people came to beat me up over that and when I defended myself they felt put upon because they imagined that they were trying to beat the crap out of a pacifist so that they could do it in complete safety. Many of them were quite angry at me because I fought back and was willing to hurt them as they were trying to hurt me. I wasn't following their rules. When I was atttacked while on crutches with a sprained ankle from a previous attack I used a crutch as a quarterstaff and beat both of them off with it.

Satan is the same archetype as Saturn, Kali, Siva... they are destroyers of order/ego, seen often as negative/evil,

Ego is certainly a hinderance though I don't know that I would call it evil though it is negative. Everything I have heard said of Satan are ego characteristics. I certainly would not equate "ego" with "order". Usually it is the vision of order as seen and imposed by somebody else who puts themselves outside those same rules. You know, if you can't control yourself control others. I always viewed Shiva as a recycler. Shiva is half of the creator pair in alchemical union. For there to be "re"birth and "re"creation there is always first a deconstruction, a dissolution or death. How could it be otherwise? So the destroyer of the negative/evil ego should be a good thing.

Freedom or enlightenment or moksha is not achieved linearly through time, but realized instantaneously, doing nothing

Sure, after 20 years of preparation or whatever, it is realized instantaneously. And at that moment one realizes that "at last" and that there is no desire and nothing to do and no one to do it. So then, what is the next step? And there IS a next step that can be taken despite no need, no desire and no doer.

Karma cannot be solved by good deeds.
Karma ceases when the doer ceases.

I could quibble a bit but I think it is just semantics. None the less one still lives in the word determined by one's structure.

As one continues onwards after that generally habits, from the unchanged body of habits, will reassert, blocks will go back into place and the person will often go back to sleep completely unaware of having done so. I've seen that called "second sleep" and much more difficult to overcome because of being generally unaware of it. At that point one finds that one can progressively change ones structure so that the default state is unblocked and awake.

However, that is still inside the bubble containing time and kundalini and all that which is thought to be the all and everything. That is an illusion most never get past. After that a whole new scale of being is possible but not nearly as easily found. Karma ceases to be relevant. Then the problem becomes how to get out of the incubator which has the illusion of being all of creation. That is a much greater mystery.

So now this turns into that famed joke recipe for lost in the wilderness wild duck stew. First bring me the wild duck... If one is not careful it could turn into more of a pursuit of the wild goose or snipe. However, this is no joke.

III
10-24-2010, 02:45 AM
Let's consider changes in neurology when learning new skills and practicing them. Studies have shown that it takes about 2 weeks of daily practice for new neurons to start to form. Over time new neurological patterns form that can be seen with MRI and fMRI imaging. These will cause neural currents to flow in a pattern literally determined by the neurons. This will form "shapes" of energy. Electromagnetic fields are generated by current flowing. Some "shapes" will resonate with a specific energy pattern and others won't. RFID tags do just that, and those can simply be circuits printed on paper. The circuit is the shape or pattern. The fractal antenna picks up all sorts of signals more easily than an antenna designed for one specific frequency and direction. Further, in paired alchemical sex there are quite a number of positions. These can be quite specific. So in a sitting face to face, yub-yum, there are several variations of head positions, i.e. forehead to forehead or heads next to each other, hand position of each person and so on. The energy flows that are emphasized by each position are different. If a pair are lining up their chakras to have fully exchanging chakra flows they might sit one way versus another with different objectives. Front to back versus front to front produces quite a different effect. One might say that how we resonate with each other depends upon alignment of bodies.

So in learning meditation of various types we literally alter our brains to favor those meditations. In the various sexual alchemical techniques one learns a variety of sexual meditations. The simultaneous orgasm, much sought and quite elusive, is an excellent example. Some will talk about the "myth" and the unatainability for most people or most over 50 or whatever. There is much nonsense promulgated about the simultaneous orgasms because most of the people spouting such things haven't the faintest idea of how to actually do it reliably and repeatedly. When a person doesn't know how to do something, how can they do anything but put forth theories or regurgitated information and/or utter nonsense. "Knowing" academically how to do it is not the same as being able to actually do it. And therein lies the rub. Most of the people writing about these things can't actually do them. How can simultaneous orgasm be taught if it can't even be talked about much less directly taught or demonstrated. Then throw in the "7 stages of orgasm" from Taoist alchemy and a half a dozen other types or variations of orgasm with various subtle and not so subtle differences and it gets very complicated when so-called "experts" (ex spurts?) can't even agree about the existence of vaginal and/or clitoral and/or g-spot etc orgasms. The internet has changed everything because mixed in with copious nonsense there is also some excellent and accurate information that often would never be found beforehand. In 1970 such information was nigh on impossible to find even if you knew it existed somewhere. Information that has been tightly guarded secrets for hundreds or thousands of years is readily available and the challenge is now to sort out what is useful NOW from that which is not useful.

So is it actually “orgasm” we are dealing with or is one of the 10 (or whatever) strong energy flows an orgasm and the other 9 are something similar but not orgasm? I don’t know. “Cosmic orgasm” is another term I have seen others use to describe these intense flows of energy/knowledge. Orgasm is a very overloaded term. Some would say that it isn’t orgasm if it doesn’t include ejaculation or it’s not orgasm is it continues for hours. So it’s a convenient word for lack of any better language
 
Then lets add another complication, language. Consider the problem at the time of Christ and a couple of millennia afterwards. An average non-literate person might have a vocabulary of under 1000 words, including a dozen or so animals with all the rest being "beasts". "How many beans, Baldric?" "One bean, two beans, three beans, many beans my lord (Black Adder)." So how many words would they have to describe the many variations of stimulation, orgasms and sex? Four to six maybe? You know the local common language equivalent of cunt, prick, fuck and semen. See anything missing there? Are subtleties and distinctions possible with a terribly limited vocabulary? What would have happened in 1900 if I had tried to give a public lecture about these things in the "civilized world"? In many cultures women were "unclean" for 5-12 days a month. So let's suppose that there is a tantric mystic of that period who knows exactly how to do the simultaneous orgasm who writes about it. What words would s/he use to describe it and how to do it? What are the words of the period for orgasm? Clitoris? G-spot? High cervical trigger? Orgasmic inevitability? Erotic Trance? and so on for the entire language we might use to describe things. How might one say "Find 10 different distinct energies generated by massaging or stroking the clitoris" or the same for 20 different energies for the entire vulva or the comparable tissues for the male.

The focus was much more on the male as so much is readily visible there and things were very male centric in most sex denying societies where as female centric in Goddess worship. In the male for instance there are separate nervous system energies for erection, for ejaculation and orgasm. Ejaculation can happen without orgasm and orgasm can happen without ejaculation. Both can happen without erection and of course erection can occur independently of the other two. And possibly at least because of language limitations one sees "Don't spill the seed" or "semen retention" when a more specific "bypass ejaculation while letting the orgasmic energies flow unrestricted that can go on and on and keep building" can't even be spoken. Then there is the interpretation that the injunction was more to prevent the waste of energy of solitary sex, that sex should always be with somebody else for energetic purposes.
 
And then you had medieval alchemists who had to invent a language that intentionally concealed what they were doing but was consistent enough that they could record what they did for future reference. If an accurate and understandable version were found they would be tortured and murdered. It had to look like something else entirely, something not subject to immediate torture and murder.

In 1900 women in some countries had to go to doctors to have orgasms for treatment of prehysteria. Excuse me, they didn't have orgasms, they had hysterical paroxysm via pelvic massage by a doctor. It wasn't anything any decent husband would do, rubbing/massaging her clitoris and g-spot with a finger.It certainly wasn't sexual.Sex is penis in vagina, moved around for a few minutes until the guy spurts. Giving an internal massage with penis for 3 hours without spurts in a sitting position wasn't really sex either, it was perversion, wrong position, way too long and no semen for ferilization negating the sole permissable reason for sex.. That wasn't anything you could find out in the 50s or 60s or 70s or 80s. The information, that hysterical paroxysm was the same as orgasm just wasn't available to the masses or was carefully hidden away. I know because I looked and tried to find it in a good sized university with medical school library. Every reference I found danced all around the topic. Nobody was going to actually reveal the situation. THE ROAD TO WELLVILLE was a big revelation for most.

Rubbers and skins (condoms to you youngsters) were sold “For the prevention of disease ONLY.” Any other use was illegal in some states. In Boston people were still being prosecuted for advocating birth control and giving away contraceptive foam. I tried to buy a package of condoms in a town outside Boston on the day before New Years in December 1969. I had to go to multiple stores before one of the druggists would finally sell me some. And KY jelly was just about as impossible to buy without being given the third degree by the druggist. And when they were actually going to sell you some they would shout loudly “Bring me a package of Fourx” or whatever brand you were buying trying to discourage people by embarrassment. Many people walked out of the stores with no purchases then, especially in a town in which there were known. Even in Ohio, when I bought a box of condoms it was announced loudly to everybody in the drugstore, which in a big drugstore might be 50-100 people at busy times. I remember the big fuss about changing the law that required that they be kept under the counter and instead be racked in the store. That was fought for years. It was a real surprise to move to Utah and find them on display racks in the supermarket in far more variety than I had any idea of. The myth of the so-called female orgasm was still being debated.

At that time chronic pain wasn’t treated and was considered untreatable. Some medical textbooks still in print then and originating in the 50s said that pain should not be treated so that the person would “experience the pain of Christ on the cross thereby preparing them for death”. Forty years have made for massive changes in language and social conventions.

The lotus in temple and tomb art was considered to be a euphemism for some unknown thing until the blue lotus was identified and the testing was done discovering that it had mild psychoactive components and a natural viagra type drug. So picture some cannabis and viagra joined together and used in rites with priest and priestess. What would those sacred rites be? What was thought to be an unknown euphemism turned out to be a literal whose effects were so completely familiar to everybody that they needed no explanation at all until the culture disappeared and the blue lily became a decorative plant only with it‘s history lost. While some might like it as a "lifestyle" drug, as it is currently being sold, it would have been quite useful for sexual alchemy.

Archeology and biology and all sorts of such things are undergoing new understandings. In the 19th and most of 20th century cultural prejudices influenced so-called scientific understanding. Lizards and birds and such all had to fit into the tree of life showing how they all lead to the "crown of creation",humans. Now the tree of life is redrawn showing birds in no way lead to humans. Very troubling for 19th century archeologists were all those stone alters that were apparently designed for sex that had catch basins carved out under the genital area. What could possibly be the intent? It was unthinkable for a century or more that it was to catch the orgasmic fluids of male and female. Why did they need to be collected? The idea that they would be consumed as a sacrament, diluted in wine so there was enough for everybody to get some, was too awful and disgusting to think about. First a ceremonial audience watches the sex and then they drink it’s products as sacrament? Of course oral sex was forbidden, a perversion, too awful to think about, at least publicly. It was illegal and subject to a decade of imprisonment in some states. However, smaller groups might have the honor of drinking directly from the 4 petal pink lotus.

A practiced priestess can keep the juices (medicines) flowing with more or less continuous orgasm for an hour or longer. Such great skills could be had by well practiced priestess and it was a cherished gift. This is something that many can learn in 6-12 months or so of practice. How could things like that be sacred? So such things were suppressed because of cultural prejudices. And yet the "Great Rite" and yoni and lingam pujas existed in various forms in multiple societies for thousands of years. The church murdered millions trying to wipe out such rites and pushed the idea that sex was sin. Openly performed ritual sex before hundreds or even thousands, of all varieties was common under a variety of names and timings, whether on the full moon or other times such as May day and harvest festivals which started out as fertility rites and often became large scale community orgies as everybody joined in. The "groves in high places" were either accidentally or intentionally shaped features of a mound with a depression having a pole (phallus) in the middle and when available were often where such rites were performed. The May pole is a remnant of such. As the Christians started suppressing the lower 3 chakra energies and emphasizing just the upper ones they were brutal. As the British and Spanish spread their Christian empires throughout the world they murderously suppressed all "primitive" cultures and sexual practices. Instead they substituted "Virgin Mary" for the sexual Goddesses, celibacy was considered sacred instead of the ability to hold an erection for an entire group to anoint, or to produce "milk and honey" which is then consumed or for the priestess to be able to display "the lower gate of heaven" and produce the sacred medicines, also "milk and honey" in some areas, for consumption.

To find all this one has to read between the lines and euphemisms of many reports because none of the older ones will tell it straight. It also helps to be able to do what is described and so know what is possible, not fanciful. The language such as there is, usually is translated in the least menacing to the archeologists cultural prejudices way possible. So is there actually any need to rub an erection with "milk and honey" or is that actually produced by said rubbing? Anointing with oil helps. Again, if the priest bypasses ejaculation, the "milk and honey" can flow for an extended period. Everybody gets to share the sacred energies and fluids. If one believes that sex, and most especially semen, is for reproduction only and even that is sinful, how is that going to affect interpretation and suppression of such rites.
You may wonder if such things are actually done. Several modern variations are done in the USA. The ones you can find are ones advertised on the internet and that charge sizable membership fees for such living yoni and lingam puja activities, often run by sex workers. However, these may have taken the care often to have registered as a church and qualified under IRS rules. Then there are the ones done at unregistered “home churches” and other places. Some of these are done with the priest or priestess in vacbeds (essentially a totally form fitting whole body condom) so that there is zero skin to skin contact and fully confined bodily fluids. Another variation of practice is to put the fluids in brandy first and then after anything in them is dead, add them to the traditional wine. Many of the home based practices include no more than perhaps a dozen people if even that many. Another practice is to rent one of the “workshop” houses and the whole thing is done and gone, never to repeat there and quite unstoppable, avoiding persecution by the authorities that repeated usage might trigger.

The very idea that sex is a totally private hidden thing is quite recent in history. It was sacred and ritual. It was art. It was entertainment. Be careful about applying modern assumptions of a culture of shame and sin to anything sexual. Some things however, that were terribly hidden and taboo have now become very common. A modern pubic hair style, removal or shaping of such from totally bald to “landing strips“, hearts, peace symbols and tufts, goes way back. The Egyptians had metal tweezers as a follow-up to clam shells, and knew all about waxing with beeswax and gauze, and even sugaring and threading at various times and places They even had metal razors. In a variety of cultures the priests and priestesses were pubicly smooth and in some the priests would have every hair on their body removed, often very painfully with tweezers, clam shell tweezers, wax or sugaring and threading. The Egyptians even removed the hair on the head and wore wigs. Let’s face it, pubic hair removal is a practical matter for those doing alchemical sex for all sorts of reasons. Now that it is in style again it doesn’t make one obvious because so many are going smooth. I must confess that the idea of having tender areas waxed or plucked one hair at a time is scary. I occasionally have had dreams of being thoroughly plucked by 3 servant girls with clam shells at the same time. It wasn’t fun and games.

To sum it up the brain changes to make the things we learn easier and better. For instance, these various types of “orgasm” become easier, more frequent and then when readily repeatable of increasing intensity. Like many other energy flow intensities in the body they “rescale” over and over. They get extremely intense and then suddenly something changes, the intensity remains the same but suddenly changes so that wile the intensity seems less in certain ways it becomes more substantial. This keeps increasing with these larger more intense steps until they again reach the top of intensity and then rescale again. It’s difficult to describe until you feel it happen over and over. On a side note, pain works the same way as far as I can tell. Now let’s reframe this in modern language. Consider that these energies, these many types of orgasm energies are in effect our cosmic modem signal and when we have “negotiated“ the connection the flow of energy, the carrier wave, starts up. In sex magik practice the prayer or desire or whatever is supposed to be imprinted upon these orgasmic energies carrying them to non-physical levels for as long as they are maintained. This appears to be the case on all the branches of western sex magik stemming from Paschal Beverly Randolph and probably other streams of it as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_Beverly_Randolph

These flows of energy like all of the various chakra energies are all carriers of vast amounts of information that can be “slowed down and expanded” until the information can be read.
 

solomon levi
10-24-2010, 06:43 AM
Hi Solomon Levi,

I intend to reply a little more completely here beyond my one liner in the previous. Much of this is probably merely negotiation of meaning; perhaps coming to an agreement of what is meant by certain words used in various ways.

Yes, I agree.

The truth is, we are free -

I think that can stand on itself. We are free, once we can see that.

Yes. That is the bottom line. :)

there is no purpose, make your own if you like.

In terms of human purposes that is largely correct. The purpose that this bubble of spacetime has with us humans is something that is a little hard to wrap around unless one can see it as a whole from "above". It appears to function as a "change" generator allowing a sheltered workshop as it were for conscious beings to develop, grow and eventually, leave (graduate?) carrying inovations of structure and intelligence to be carried up to the unchanging. We are self designing self actualizing intellegences. Many of the macroconsciousness' one might run into in the macrodimensions are really quite stupid. They might be large and powerful but many are really quite stupid. Quite a few of them might even be insane as the gnostics maintained, that earth was being overseen by a mad "demiurge". There is a whole lot of conscious existance after we exit earth based life. While we get larger there, the ability to design our self, our intelligence, our basis of sanity, is here. This is where we come back to after bugs have been revealed by our expansion. So within a life the purpose is to have experiences, unspecified as to type, that reveals the bugs and allows us to fix them. Somehow that doesn't seem very satisfying because we are not told what to do or how. It is up to us to figure it out. That is our freedom. The mythologies that says we MUST do it this way with this belief or that based on hearsay from some authority's interpretation of what somebody said 100 or 1000 or 10,000 years ago are just mythologies. As we ARE the results of earlier stages of evolution, retracing previous steps endlessly and mindlessly doesn't pay off. Out of earths billions, only a few (compared to billions) will succeed with furthering evolution as a whole with innovations. Many will fill in details of many variations and most won't succeed in even producing a permanently existing consciousness.


Yes. If I were to agree to a purpose it would be "to make known the unknown"


This is only for the insane

That is a matter of definition. I would have said that this is only for the sane and that somebody who bases their life on belief systems that don't correspond with how things work are the insane, though maybe non-sane is a more meaningful word in this context.

AWAKEN from the dream. That is what is sane.

Yes. I suppose that if we are the minority then we are the insane. But you're right - it's the other way around.

solomon levi
10-24-2010, 11:38 AM
Hi Solomon,

Greetings III!

What I see here are merely descriptive/interpretive differences. Nothing we say affects what is.

Yes. It's nice to talk with someone about these things. I like the challenge of communicating and listening.

The path of karma in the arena of karma is endless; like the ego trying to kill the ego.

Of course it is. Perhaps I should define my terms better. What we are is what we are. Our "karma" is inherent in what we are as the running total of all that has shaped us before. In a rebirth (recurrent or reincarnation, doesn't matter) the variation of the world we perceive is based on that structure. Our fears, our blocks, our taboos, our being all contributes to the perceived version of the world we find ourselves in. Karma per se can never be cleared as it is our very nature. However, used in a more common usage, the fears, the blocks, the intentional or accidental self blinding can be cleared and faulty structures changed as contributing factors to evolution, and that can happen more quickly, be sped up by cooperating with the process rather than denying and fighting against it. While one still has karma as that is a condition of life, it isn't a troublesome karma.

You say "all that has shaped us before". Can you give me more definition there? What exactly does karma shape? What is "us"?
For me, when karma is spoken of as a past that shapes the present, this past must be mind - only mind acknowledges the past.
It seems logical to me that if the past can shape something, it must be the false mind/ego, which does not exist save as an apparent past.
And since this ego is false, smoke and mirrors, memories... there is nothing to be done about its karma.
The "speeding up" thing... time. You lose me there. I mean I can follow you; I see what you're saying. But as long as we
are speaking of/from the field of separation, there's no difference between faster and slower evolution. The separation is not a linear one
on the same plane, but rather a quantum leap or dimensional shift. A slowly evolving person could "arrive" before a quickly evolving person.
Because it's, say, a vertical leap having nothing to do with horizontal velocity.
I guess we also have to define what is being evolved. If one is evolving the mind/ego - "I know more now than I knew then" -
then this is illusion: what appears to be evolution is merely moving from one corner of the box to another.

Satan supposedly tempts us to do what we should not do -to break laws, rules, limits, taboos - things that give order through limitation

Ahha, the mythology handed on by those who would keep us trapped and blind. So the rules, laws, limits, taboos and the like that say "Celibacy is required for spiritual growth" serves to keep us trapped for instance. There are good reasons to be careful in the practice tantric sex as getting a disease isn't a great idea. As "reflection" is a very real occurance here, if someone is nasty towards people they will tend to be nasty towards that person in return. I practice love, kindness, forgiveness, non-judgementalness and all that NOT because somebody's rules or laws say I should but because that is how I am and that is also how I would prefer to be treated. I make mistakes as does everybody.

There is the mythology, but I meant to address the reality of a "tempting" force. Aren't we compelled to
do that which is denied us, what is forbidden, even if not simply to prove that we are greater than rules and laws. Thank god Eve ate
the apple! I call that evolution (or involution, depending on what level you interpret the story). Everything was different after that.
Not everyone rebels; but I wouldn't say the conformists are the spearhead of evolution. :) Cain and Satan/Lucifer are archetypal rebels.


Satan is the same archetype as Saturn, Kali, Siva... they are destroyers of order/ego, seen often as negative/evil,

Ego is certainly a hinderance though I don't know that I would call it evil though it is negative. Everything I have heard said of Satan are ego characteristics. I certainly would not equate "ego" with "order". Usually it is the vision of order as seen and imposed by somebody else who puts themselves outside those same rules. You know, if you can't control yourself control others. I always viewed Shiva as a recycler. Shiva is half of the creator pair in alchemical union. For there to be "re"birth and "re"creation there is always first a deconstruction, a dissolution or death. How could it be otherwise? So the destroyer of the negative/evil ego should be a good thing.

Siva is also part of a trinity: Brahma, the creator, Vishnu, the preserver, and Siva, the destroyer.
Yes, the destroyer of the ego should be a good thing. But it's not to social consciousness and the dreaming hordes.

Freedom or enlightenment or moksha is not achieved linearly through time, but realized instantaneously, doing nothing

Sure, after 20 years of preparation or whatever, it is realized instantaneously. And at that moment one realizes that "at last" and that there is no desire and nothing to do and no one to do it. So then, what is the next step? And there IS a next step that can be taken despite no need, no desire and no doer.

Well, you know my view - all the preparation in the world means nothing. The unprepared may achieve
it before the well-prepared. Vertical versus horizontal.
The next step will be apparent when one is there. It can't be foreseen or planned. Because s/he is no longer operating from
the past, it is unpredictable.


Karma cannot be solved by good deeds.
Karma ceases when the doer ceases.

I could quibble a bit but I think it is just semantics. None the less one still lives in the word determined by one's structure.

I don't know what you mean - "one's structure". I suppose this refers to what you said earlier about being shaped by our karma.
There are people in this world who have succeeded in eliminating, or transcending, defining structures, ego, karma.
Take, for instance, Castaneda's don Juan: "Sorcerers have only one reference point: Infinity."
What structure do you suppose such a being has? What is to hold them to any particular world from one moment to the next other
than their attention or intention? I take it from your statements below that you do agree that such beings exist.


As one continues onwards after that generally habits, from the unchanged body of habits, will reassert, blocks will go back into place and the person will often go back to sleep completely unaware of having done so. I've seen that called "second sleep" and much more difficult to overcome because of being generally unaware of it. At that point one finds that one can progressively change ones structure so that the default state is unblocked and awake.

This "second sleep" is a fascinating observation.

However, that is still inside the bubble containing time and kundalini and all that which is thought to be the all and everything. That is an illusion most never get past. After that a whole new scale of being is possible but not nearly as easily found. Karma ceases to be relevant. Then the problem becomes how to get out of the incubator which has the illusion of being all of creation. That is a much greater mystery.

So now this turns into that famed joke recipe for lost in the wilderness wild duck stew. First bring me the wild duck... If one is not careful it could turn into more of a pursuit of the wild goose or snipe. However, this is no joke.

I don't see such illusions existing when the mind ceases to exist. One doesn't perceive 'here' and 'there' or 'this' and 'other'.
Thus it is called non-duality. Are you saying there is more beyond non-duality? Or are you describing a pre- non-dual state?
It appears pre- non-dual to me. Who would be there to think about getting out of an incubator?

III
10-29-2010, 07:18 AM
Hi Solomon,

Yes. It's nice to talk with someone about these things. I like the challenge of communicating and listening.

It is a real challenge to genuinely understand another. At one level it might be said that it is pure illusion that there is one to understand and other to be understood.

I really have been at this a long long time which seen another way is a mere instant for all of it. However, even in the "eternal" there is the appearance of sequence within the experience. We are not engineered to speak about it and we don't have the language to speak about it. So all we can do is very approximate speaking around Robin Hood's barn. I will use the language of time and space as that is where we are. I will speak from experience as much as possible though I definitely will borrow ways to speak about it wherever I find a useful way.


You say "all that has shaped us before". Can you give me more definition there? What exactly does karma shape? What is "us"?

Let's get directly to the crux (or should that be crutch?) of the matter. Let's use a "tree of life" metaphor here. The system is very accommodating. If I see the nature of consciousness in terms of size, with each large size being made up as a composite contining alll smaller sizes along it's path of ascent, arranged for instance as a "tree", maybe even as a "binary tree", then I see it arranged in that archetype. Franklin Merrell Wolff wrote a book called PHILOSOPHY OF CONSCIOUSNESS WITHOUT AN OBJECT. At the root node of this tree all consciousness is. There is nothing to be conscious of, no object; simply consciousness with no object to be conscious of. Way way way down the tree consciousness is totally fragmented into tiny pieces. There are all sorts of objects (other chunks of consciousness) to be conscious of but nothing to be conscious with so at that end it is objects without much of a consciousness. Somewhere in between there are sizable chunks of consciousness and things to be conscious of.. Now this is just a very approximate way to say certain things borrowing from others' descriptions and glued together with my experience.

For starters, our tie of consciousness to the body is only an illusion. Our bodies are only illusions but in in spacetime it all seems real enough. What my experience is, is that this spacetime, including the appearance of eternity, is part of a bubble (virtual holodeck) that is cut off from "eternity" by what looks like a speed of light barrier. So between "here" and "local eternity" is one speed of light barrier and between "local eternity" and "greater eternity" is another speed of light barrier, or maybe one of them is something different. There is NO authority to define this. I have seen enough descriptions of these things described by others and have voyaged there with others that I have no doubt of it's existence and consider these things fully validated. What it MEANS is an entirely different matter. I am merely attempting to describe what I have experienced. As Gahan Wilson said "I only draw what I see".


In the mystical yoga literature, and in direct conversation with a friend, a jnana Yogi, it is taught that the "soul" (Or Atman?) or whatever it is called in that level of yoga knowledge, at the time of death of one who is liberated, falls into the Absolute eternally. If one takes that and compares that to the infall into a black hole, apparent duration becomes infinite at the speed of light. The stretching out of time to seemingly infinite duration as one approaches the speed of light become intuitively obvious to the most casual observer upon the experience of it. If one can somehow jump past the event horizon rather getting caugtht in the Hero's Paradox of getting infinitely closer for infinite time everything changes.

Here you are. Here I am. Let's not get caught up in the illusion of what we are. The most objective description of what one is that each of us is a pattern of energy which is part of a larger pattern which is part of a larger pattern ad infinitum. At the moment, what that pattern is, where it is how it is etc is not the subject, just that there is a pattern.or something that might be described as a pattern. It is a pattern that is with me no matter where or when or what I think I am. The pattern isn't "me" per se. Without consciousness animating the pattern it is just part of the cosmic fractal. And yet, when the pattern has a current of consciousness activating it, there "I" is. If the pattern is modified, then the resultant of the consciousness activating it is different, there is a change in understanding, a change in perception of the world, a change in action of some kind perhaps. When consciousness is passed through the pattern it acts as a template giving forth the most current result based on all the changes to the template

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman

Para Brahman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para_Brahman) corresponds to the concept of Godhead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead) and Saguna brahman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saguna_brahman) to God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God) as the Primordial Being.
It is said that Brahman cannot be known by material means, that we cannot be made conscious of it, because Brahman is our very consciousness and being. Brahman is also not restricted to the usual dimensional perspectives of being, and thus enlightenment, moksha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha), yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga), samādhi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam%C4%81dhi), nirvana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana), etc. do not merely mean to know Brahman, but to realise one's "brahman-hood", to actually realise that one is and always was Brahman. Indeed, closely related to the Self concept of Brahman is the idea that it is synonymous with jiva-atma, or individual souls, our atman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_%28Hinduism%29) (or soul) being readily identifiable with the greater soul (paramatma) of Brahman.
Generally, Vedanta rejects the notion of an evolving Brahman since Brahman contains within it the potentiality and archetypes behind all possible manifest phenomenal forms. The Vedas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas), though they are in some respects historically conditioned, are considered by Hindus to convey a knowledge[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman#cite_note-1) eternal, timeless and always contemporaneous with Brahman. This knowledge is considered to have been handed down by realised yogins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogin) to students many generations before the Vedas were committed to writing. Written texts of the Vedas are a relatively recent phenomenon.
Connected with the ritual of pre-Vedantic Hinduism, Brahman signified the power to grow, the expansive and self-altering process of ritual and sacrifice, often visually realized in the sputtering of flames as they received the all important ghee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghee) (clarified butter) and rose in concert with the mantras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra) of the Vedas. The term Brahmin in the Vedic period actually meant one who has realized Brahman. However, later on Brahmin came to be identified with the highest of the four castes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste), the Brahmins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmin), who by virtue of their purity and priesthood were held proprietors of rituals.
Among Hindu sects, Advaita Vedanta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta) espouses monism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism). The closest interpretation of the term can be found in the Taittiriya Upanishad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads) (II.1) where Brahman is described as satyam jnanam anantam brahman . Thus, Brahman is the origin and end of all things, material or otherwise. Brahman is the root source and Divine Ground of everything that exists, and is the only thing that exists according to Shankara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankara). It is defined as unknowable and Satchitananda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchitananda) ("Truth-Consciousness-Bliss"). Since it is eternal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity) and infinite, it comprises the only truth. ("Brahman is of the nature of truth, knowledge and infinity") The goal of Vedanta is to realize that the soul (Atman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_%28Hinduism%29)) is actually nothing but Brahman. The Hindu pantheon of gods is said, in the Vedas and Upanishads, to be only higher manifestations of Brahman. For this reason, "ekam sat" ("Truth is one"), and all is Brahman. This explains the Hindu view that "All paths lead to the one Truth, though many sages [and religions] call upon it by different names."

Stated opinions and beliefs change over time. Dualism and non-dualism come in and out of favor. The idea that the Brahman could evolve changes over time. However, the ability to evolve or not doesn't change though the speed of changes might change. On a far more macro scale the Brahman could be said to be the template through which consciousness is squirted to become the creation just as each of us has a template through which consciousness is squirted to become each of us, fully defined and shaped by that template. As we learn and die another layer is made on this template, sort of like a pearl.

When we are (re)born we are squirted through our template, micro-Brahman as it were. With Alchemy we consciously start building this template more rapidly and in a planned fashion so as to produce certain kinds of results.This template controls how we think about things, what possibilities we see in events, and in it's sum total, even our karma.

End of part 1

III
10-29-2010, 07:41 PM
Hi Solomon,

So let's continue this idea of shape and structure. Remember the Sufi story of the blind men and the elephant; each of them thought that they were examining something different because they were each only aware of a tiny part of a larger thing. From examining one square foot of sand with no other information one can't tell if it is in a sandbox in the middle of a big city or a tiny section of beach along the shore half a world away. Also, I'm not telling this based on regurgitating statements from other people. I am telling it based on my own many experiences and memories put together over at least this lifetime plus the experiences gained by having taught half a dozen people mostly each over a period of years and even decades. On top of that I am a systems analyst which flavors everything.

At one stage of alchemy it might be described similarly to Excel min function. Firast one starts off with one's self at the stage of "One". This could be viewed as a single cell in the spreadsheet. Then this cell is replicated across the width. As the formula is adjusted in each cell, each cell is a little different from each of the others. Then one goes through the process of incorporating (integrating?) this row across with all it's variations. When this is done then one "rotates" and replicates this entire row down, again eqach cell changing slightly. Again one integrates all that. Then it is done again and again, replicating into a new dimension each time. After a certain number of these operationsa completeness is reached and suddenly one is once again "ONE" but this time larger. This new form of "ONE" as an object, now goes through the entire growth process again.

The process of integrating is a process of purification, of fitting all the pieces together without inducing distortions. Each purification and integration expands the size of knowledge/understanding/KNOWING. Enlightenment grows step by step. however, each step is a quantum step. There is no in between. It is "X" or it is "X+1". When one reforms it is an entirety, Real changes happen, suddenly and immediately.


The "speeding up" thing... time. You lose me there. I mean I can follow you; I see what you're saying. But as long as we are speaking of/from the field of separation, there's no difference between faster and slower evolution. The separation is not a linear one on the same plane, but rather a quantum leap or dimensional shift. A slowly evolving person could "arrive" before a quickly evolving person.

I am not saying anything that hasn't been well discussed with my jnana Yogi friend. With him it was a matter of mapping the ideas as expressed in the variant of English I speak with science and computerese added in to the Sanscrit terminology he learned. And as we were both very experienced we were both speaking with actual experience which also mapped to the language we used. To the outsider it would certainly sound like some kind of really weird jargon. It did work well enough that we were able to discuss and understand what each said.

So what we generally think of as our "self" exists in space-time and the local meta-space-time containing it. As the energy "structure" that is our base class sits outside of space-time what we do to our present instance of our base class doesn't affect our base class until we do a "writeback", or a "save" or a "backup" or whatever you want to call it. The system is always the "live system", there is no off line development. Our present instance is the development system and as soon as it is written back to the base class all instances of this class, no matter where or when they appear to be in space-time are affected. It is like when you have a directory being viewed in Windows Explorer and you do a save on a file from WORD. As soon as that save is made your directory view is updated to show the current file size, status and update size and time/date stamp. Each additional instance of that WORD file that you then bring up is the changed file, not the previous form which may have been saved as a backup, or not. In this meta-space-time each time your base class is modified via a writeback, each instancing of that base class is changed even if it appears to be 20 years earlier in your life than you made the changes. It is a one to many relationship since each instancing in our lifetime points to the same eternal base class. One of the "rules for claiming something new" is that the new metaphysics must be compatible with the old. So the revised class being instanced earlier in your life doesn't change the experience then. It means that when looked back upon from now that the changes we can NOW see were always there but hidden in what appeared as noise art the time.

So these characteristics of space-time can be confusing since time isn't what it seems. As the creature in the blue room said "TIME IS THE SIMPLEST THING THERE IS". (Clifford Simak). Object oriented language makes speaking of these things simpler since it has dealt with the idea of asynchronous changes. All of ones experiences that take place in space-time or meta-space-time all take place in the same cosmic instant so the whole idea of sooner or later or before and after as relating to sometime done in space-time and how it relates to the eternal instant can't really even be asked. One doesn't "arrive" anywhere. One "becomes" something different in an instant. Most never notice such changes and if they do, it's only immediately when something happens and it is as quickly forgotten.

Evolution of this kind isn't a race. As one has as long an apparaent duration of space-time as is needed to evolve to the extent one is able it is entirely misleading to speak of it as slower of faster. Right now in this apparent pseudo instant, and all others, each of us is as evolved as we ever get in all eternity. None the less next year or the year after in this space-time we may each perveive our self be more evolved than we perceive what we are at this pseudo instant. In the eternal instant our most evolved self is already there jusrt waiting for us to become aware of it. However our self in this instance of our base class and earlier instances doesn't have the purity and complexity to decode our more evolved self so the things that are ahead of what we currently can perceive is just meaningless noise. As one removes the blocks, removes the distortions, removes the fantasies and fears and includes more dimensional information we become able to decode the multi-dimensional fractal and thereby realize the evolution.

So when one takes on the work of removing the impediments to being enlightened and using that to direct evolution the whole schema speeds up. There is the appearance that growth is by a proportionate amount. When one is just learning to ski a 45 degree slope with 5 feet of fresh powder entered by jumping off a cornice is suicide. When one is an expert skier in those conditions it is great fun.

Preparation for evolution happens as fast as a person can stand. For somebody in this for a long time and who is thoroughly evolved the steps might seem overwhelmingly large for a person just starting out whereas such steps might be too small to even see by somebody vastly further along.

One thing that most folks seem confused by is that most of these things are quite impossible until they happen, then when they happen they have ALWAYS been that way.

There is an Alchemical equivalent (and time traveler equivalent) of Fermi's Paradox (you know, if intelligent life isn't unique and star travel is possible, so where are they all?). If Alchemy in one form or another actually works where are the successful Alchemists? If even one person has ever succeeded at this quest, where are they? Perhaps the problem is one of recognition. How would you recognize a sucessful Alchemist?

Let's make it simpler. How would you recognize an enlightened person standing in front of you or passing you on the street? Or maybe the more fundamental question is "How do you recognize an AWAKENED person standing in front of you?" Is the answer "It takes one to know one"?

To be continued...

Andro
10-29-2010, 08:37 PM
Is the answer "It takes one to know one"?

Yes.

III
10-30-2010, 03:04 AM
Yes.

Hi Androgynus,

Are you a turtle?

Andro
10-30-2010, 05:00 AM
Hi Androgynus,

Are you a turtle?

Maybe I am a turtle. But if one is not able to look and see beyond form, they won't be able to tell if I am an 'awakened' turtle or not, unless they are 'awakened' as well.

III
10-30-2010, 05:48 AM
Hi Solomon,

So we continue:

Because it's, say, a vertical leap having nothing to do with horizontal velocity.
I guess we also have to define what is being evolved. If one is evolving the mind/ego - "I know more now than I knew then" -then this is illusion: what appears to be evolution is merely moving from one corner of the box to another. ...
... I don't see such illusions existing when the mind ceases to exist.

I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding about both evolution and alchemy. Evolution is voluntary. Nobody has to do it. Alchemy is a method for evolving. I know nothing about "mind" ceasing to exist. That which is conscious of being conscious exists. It exists eternally conscious of being conscious.. The Yogis speak of the eternal in-fall into the Absolute. They say nothing at all of not being conscious. Have you ever watched a mind ceasing to exist? Perhaps if you define the mind as unconscious ego, completely separately from the consciousness and structured energy that makes up our "soul", our very being, or whatever you want to call that, you could have something that just disappears. Or maybe you are speaking of the embryonic spark that has the chance to grow into an eternal consciousness though it doesn't appear to always do so and many don't... Obviously that of which you speak is not that which evolves and persists eternally if it can just disappear, so that is not of which I speak. It's just an illusionary intellectual straw-man, or somethoing, but not that of which I speak..

There is the mythology, but I meant to address the reality of a "tempting" force. Aren't we compelled to do that which is denied us, what is forbidden, even if not simply to prove that we are greater than rules and laws.

I know of nothing that is denied or forbidden. Suicide might come close but is really just a real bad idea rather than forbidden as such. Haven't you ever done something that you wanted to do despite knowing it was a bad idea and that it would cost you and you did it anyway? The "cost" is part of the rules. . "I", meaning this consciousness at this time apparantly animatimg this body is not compelled to do anything though eating, drinking, breathing and defecating all come damn close to being required. What is actually against the rules that you feel compelled to act against?

even if not simply to prove that we are greater than rules and laws.

That might be a reasonable thing to do, going through a red light in the dead of night without a car in sight, after stopping and waiting for 5 minutes for a broken light to work, demonstrating that we are not machines without consciousness. There are a lot of hearsay "laws and rules" that all sorts of authoritarian folks have tried to impose upon the flocks being fleeced complete with highly imaginative ridiculous retributions for violating their made up rules, but let's get real. It probably isn't even possible to think anything that actually violates "real" rules of the system. Show me how to violoate the laws of gravity, motion, thermodynamics, speed of light and so forth. The real laws of the real system are no more violable. And if you can make anti-gravity and FTL work then anti-gravity and FTL fits into the rules. Man made rules might inspire men to torture or murder others of whom they don't approve, but that is merely man made mythology. The better one learns and cooperates with the real system rules via alchemy the more successful the alchemist is.at alchemy. The rules of the system inspire one towards evolution. The system needs that evolution. All the rules that impede evolution are man made.

The unprepared may achieve it before the well-prepared.

Perhaps, but I have never seen that. It is rare enough for the well prepared. And in this I don't mean the "let's play pretend" prepared of which there are all too many.. In any case the unprepared are unprepared for living in that level of knowledge and energy and find it an absolutely hellish unbearable insanity and try urgently to go back to sleep before the influx of divine knowledge destroys them. That's why it takes place in a a progression form easy little steps for muddy little feet right on to the full functioning of the system. This is one system that absolutely can't be scammed. In the book INDECENT PRACTICES - Making Sense of Tantra. JR Haule states that perhaps 1% of those claiming to be teachers of Tantra are genuine. So the other 99% are simply fooling their clients if their clients think they are actually being prepared for tantric alchemy. On the other hand if they think that they are only there to learn about sex and maybe a little Kundalini and expect nothing more then perhaps they are not being mislead.

I don't see such illusions existing when the mind ceases to exist. One doesn't perceive 'here' and 'there' or 'this' and 'other'. Thus it is called non-duality.Thus it is called non-duality. Are you saying there is more beyond non-duality? Or are you describing a pre- non-dual state? It appears pre- non-dual to me. Who would be there to think about getting out of an incubator?

I have no idea what you mean by "pre non-dual". IN the non-dual one doesn't perceive of God as being separate and outside of man. In non-dual one perceifves one's highest identity as being God. We are not separate from God. The world is not separate from God. Instead we are all part and parcel of the one and same and whole. Perhaps God is doing the equivalent of twiddling it's metaphorical thumbs in considering humans but is aware of having a huge number of such metaphorical thumbs. Some would say that the physical is the mind of God. Distinctions can still be seen and made but they are different distinctions than a dualist would make.

Who would be there to think about getting out of an incubator?

Every being (not body) who makes it to that level and completeness of consciousness would want to get out of the incubator once they have the size of consciousness, Chi etc that makes a consciousness able to be self-existent within the full system and become aware that they are in an incubator to begin with.

Not everyone rebels; but I wouldn't say the conformists are the spearhead of evolution. :) Cain and Satan/Lucifer are archetypal rebels.

There is absolutely nothing to rebel against. Evolution isn't really a rebellion against itself.. Evolution comes from those willing to fill in blank spots or change understanding based on a broader viewpoint.or expand past the edge of the world. Rebelling against one's self doesn't really make sense.

And just to clarify the Shiva - Shakti - Brahma situation alchemically speaking

Brahma is the composite of Shiva and Shakti
Shiva = Purus'a, Cosmic Consciousness, literally "in whom all things lie";
Shakti = Prakrti, Cosmic Operative Principle, literally "ability to create something";
a'tmakam' = composite of;
Brahma = Supreme Entity (from brhat, meaning "great")
Brahma is the composite of Shiva and Shakti.
http://ways-ahead.net/meditation/041-Brahma%20is%20the%20composite%20of%20Shiva%20and%2 0Shakti.pdf

This is the basic concept of A'nanda Ma'rga philosophy -- that the Supreme Entity is One but has two aspects: the Cognitive Principle and the Operative Principle, Shiva and Shakti. It is impossible to conceive of one entity without the other; Consciousness and Its Energy of creation are as inseparable as fire and its heat, as milk and its whiteness, as two sides of a piece of paper. This concept has often been depicted symbolically in the image of a hermaphrodite (man and woman in the same body), or in Indian sculpture as two lovers locked in a tight embrace. In this su'tra the term "a'tmakam'" has been used to express the relationship: Brahma is the composite of, the combined name of, Consciousness and the Operative Principle. Brahma is not a third entity

The ancient scriptures proclaim, "There is nothing whatever that is not divine... to know all as illusion is ignorance, to know all as Consciousness is knowledge." Thus the spiritual aspirant does not bemoan the transitoriness of the world; to him, change itself reveals the Spirit that inspires the changing forms.

Our mental plates, our minds, are like mirrors which reflects physical waves, giving us the physical sense of existence. The only reason we perceive anything is that the crude waves of external physicality are "telepathized" (telepathy = to act over a distance) on our mental plates. But both physical and mental waves are reflected on a still subtler "mirror", the Soul or A'tman -- the pure Consciousness of infinite
wavelength. The existence of a unit entity is the reflection of its vibrations on this pure, mirror-like Soul-plate. The Soul reflects everything; it is the base, the ground of existence. Nothing can exists without being reflected off this mirror. This is the fundamental idea of yoga, that at the base of every unit entity is the Soul, one and the same for every entity in the Universe. The unit soul, jiiva'tman, and the Cosmic Soul, Parama'tman, are One. Thus when an entity realized its own soul it becomes omniscient, omnipresent, like the Supreme Soul, like the Supreme Consciousness -- it knows everything; it can see everything that is happening everywhere in the universe because everything is being "reflected"

In Alchemical union then, the male and female, combine in the Shiva/Shakti union archetype and make something else entirely.

III
10-30-2010, 05:54 AM
Maybe I am a turtle. But if one is not able to look and see beyond form, they won't be able to tell if I am an 'awakened' turtle or not, unless they are 'awakened' as well.

Hi Androgynus,

I agreed with your answer of "Yes" 100%. The turtle question was simply a joke by way of agreement that fell flat. My apologies..

Andro
10-30-2010, 04:25 PM
The turtle question was simply a joke by way of agreement that fell flat.

Or maybe my perception of it fell sharp :)

Either way, thanks for a good exercise in communication :)

solomon levi
10-31-2010, 01:16 AM
Hi Solomon,

So let's continue this idea of shape and structure. Remember the Sufi story of the blind men and the elephant; each of them thought that they were examining something different because they were each only aware of a tiny part of a larger thing. From examining one square foot of sand with no other information one can't tell if it is in a sandbox in the middle of a big city or a tiny section of beach along the shore half a world away. Also, I'm not telling this based on regurgitating statements from other people. I am telling it based on my own many experiences and memories put together over at least this lifetime plus the experiences gained by having taught half a dozen people mostly each over a period of years and even decades. On top of that I am a systems analyst which flavors everything.

At one stage of alchemy it might be described similarly to Excel min function. Firast one starts off with one's self at the stage of "One". This could be viewed as a single cell in the spreadsheet. Then this cell is replicated across the width. As the formula is adjusted in each cell, each cell is a little different from each of the others. Then one goes through the process of incorporating (integrating?) this row across with all it's variations. When this is done then one "rotates" and replicates this entire row down, again eqach cell changing slightly. Again one integrates all that. Then it is done again and again, replicating into a new dimension each time. After a certain number of these operationsa completeness is reached and suddenly one is once again "ONE" but this time larger. This new form of "ONE" as an object, now goes through the entire growth process again.

The process of integrating is a process of purification, of fitting all the pieces together without inducing distortions. Each purification and integration expands the size of knowledge/understanding/KNOWING. Enlightenment grows step by step. however, each step is a quantum step. There is no in between. It is "X" or it is "X+1". When one reforms it is an entirety, Real changes happen, suddenly and immediately.


The "speeding up" thing... time. You lose me there. I mean I can follow you; I see what you're saying. But as long as we are speaking of/from the field of separation, there's no difference between faster and slower evolution. The separation is not a linear one on the same plane, but rather a quantum leap or dimensional shift. A slowly evolving person could "arrive" before a quickly evolving person.

I am not saying anything that hasn't been well discussed with my jnana Yogi friend. With him it was a matter of mapping the ideas as expressed in the variant of English I speak with science and computerese added in to the Sanscrit terminology he learned. And as we were both very experienced we were both speaking with actual experience which also mapped to the language we used. To the outsider it would certainly sound like some kind of really weird jargon. It did work well enough that we were able to discuss and understand what each said.

So what we generally think of as our "self" exists in space-time and the local meta-space-time containing it. As the energy "structure" that is our base class sits outside of space-time what we do to our present instance of our base class doesn't affect our base class until we do a "writeback", or a "save" or a "backup" or whatever you want to call it. The system is always the "live system", there is no off line development. Our present instance is the development system and as soon as it is written back to the base class all instances of this class, no matter where or when they appear to be in space-time are affected. It is like when you have a directory being viewed in Windows Explorer and you do a save on a file from WORD. As soon as that save is made your directory view is updated to show the current file size, status and update size and time/date stamp. Each additional instance of that WORD file that you then bring up is the changed file, not the previous form which may have been saved as a backup, or not. In this meta-space-time each time your base class is modified via a writeback, each instancing of that base class is changed even if it appears to be 20 years earlier in your life than you made the changes. It is a one to many relationship since each instancing in our lifetime points to the same eternal base class. One of the "rules for claiming something new" is that the new metaphysics must be compatible with the old. So the revised class being instanced earlier in your life doesn't change the experience then. It means that when looked back upon from now that the changes we can NOW see were always there but hidden in what appeared as noise art the time.

So these characteristics of space-time can be confusing since time isn't what it seems. As the creature in the blue room said "TIME IS THE SIMPLEST THING THERE IS". (Clifford Simak). Object oriented language makes speaking of these things simpler since it has dealt with the idea of asynchronous changes. All of ones experiences that take place in space-time or meta-space-time all take place in the same cosmic instant so the whole idea of sooner or later or before and after as relating to sometime done in space-time and how it relates to the eternal instant can't really even be asked. One doesn't "arrive" anywhere. One "becomes" something different in an instant. Most never notice such changes and if they do, it's only immediately when something happens and it is as quickly forgotten.

Evolution of this kind isn't a race. As one has as long an apparaent duration of space-time as is needed to evolve to the extent one is able it is entirely misleading to speak of it as slower of faster. Right now in this apparent pseudo instant, and all others, each of us is as evolved as we ever get in all eternity. None the less next year or the year after in this space-time we may each perveive our self be more evolved than we perceive what we are at this pseudo instant. In the eternal instant our most evolved self is already there jusrt waiting for us to become aware of it. However our self in this instance of our base class and earlier instances doesn't have the purity and complexity to decode our more evolved self so the things that are ahead of what we currently can perceive is just meaningless noise. As one removes the blocks, removes the distortions, removes the fantasies and fears and includes more dimensional information we become able to decode the multi-dimensional fractal and thereby realize the evolution.

So when one takes on the work of removing the impediments to being enlightened and using that to direct evolution the whole schema speeds up. There is the appearance that growth is by a proportionate amount. When one is just learning to ski a 45 degree slope with 5 feet of fresh powder entered by jumping off a cornice is suicide. When one is an expert skier in those conditions it is great fun.

Preparation for evolution happens as fast as a person can stand. For somebody in this for a long time and who is thoroughly evolved the steps might seem overwhelmingly large for a person just starting out whereas such steps might be too small to even see by somebody vastly further along.

One thing that most folks seem confused by is that most of these things are quite impossible until they happen, then when they happen they have ALWAYS been that way.

There is an Alchemical equivalent (and time traveler equivalent) of Fermi's Paradox (you know, if intelligent life isn't unique and star travel is possible, so where are they all?). If Alchemy in one form or another actually works where are the successful Alchemists? If even one person has ever succeeded at this quest, where are they? Perhaps the problem is one of recognition. How would you recognize a sucessful Alchemist?

Let's make it simpler. How would you recognize an enlightened person standing in front of you or passing you on the street? Or maybe the more fundamental question is "How do you recognize an AWAKENED person standing in front of you?" Is the answer "It takes one to know one"?

To be continued...


This is a beautiful post. I am in complete agreement with this paradoxical explanation of time.
That is my experience also.
I've witnessed (and am now witnessing) several speeds or levels of time simultaneously.
While I don't have a computer language background, I do have a green language background,
and I have THE background, and I completely understand and agree with the view of "base class"
(I call it a foundation) and "writebacks", etc. For me one of the nearest examples we can relate to is
how often people want something, a particular reality, and get frustrated in not getting it because they
haven't seen and changed their true intent which is often subconscious - especially the intent of separation and time
(which is another level/foundation of intent as well).
I was also watching these fractal loops of time/reality today and witnessing myself casting dreams into the future/higher frequencies;
I saw it as picking up anchors that have been grounded to this dream/reality and casting them into another dream.
Then I simultaneously saw the future dream pulling in this dream/anchor like a kite on a string as if it was a memory/the past.
So I was watching three foundations at once, or three positions (maybe two foundations with the kite being a 'bridge'.)
So I witnessed the change in the direction of time, and also witnessed the flow of time from outside of it as a third person.
So i get what you're saying.

Yes, it takes one to know one.
The Jnani sees everyone as Jnanis, and the ajnani sees everyone as ajnanis.

solomon levi
10-31-2010, 03:29 AM
My replies will be in brown/russet this time within the quote.
Hmmm. My color didn't work and i don't really want to go through and change it all,
so you can find me in the parenthesis Hi Solomon,

So we continue:

Because it's, say, a vertical leap having nothing to do with horizontal velocity.
I guess we also have to define what is being evolved. If one is evolving the mind/ego - "I know more now than I knew then" -then this is illusion: what appears to be evolution is merely moving from one corner of the box to another. ...
... I don't see such illusions existing when the mind ceases to exist.

I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding about both evolution and alchemy. Evolution is voluntary. Nobody has to do it. Alchemy is a method for evolving.

Yes, I think this means different things to us. I can see how what you are saying is true, but mostly i don't see it that way.
But there are different definitions of voluntary. That which the egoic mind/"separate self" can volunteer for will not evolve it as it will be the past/known.
In that sense, evolution must come as a "blow to the head", something unexpected and jolting - evolution clobbers one, (Shiva the destroyer).
But if you equate will (voluntas) with something beyond the egoic mind, then it cannot be "my" will anymore, though we can identify with this will as
being one with the will of God, or the Holy Guardian Angel, or some such lingo which points to/describes a larger picture of the self. In this level of
connectedness, one can't distinguish between personal will and submission to the whole, or a greater part of the whole (being an instrument).


I know nothing about "mind" ceasing to exist. That which is conscious of being conscious exists. It exists eternally conscious of being conscious.. The Yogis speak of the eternal in-fall into the Absolute. They say nothing at all of not being conscious. Have you ever watched a mind ceasing to exist? Perhaps if you define the mind as unconscious ego, completely separately from the consciousness and structured energy that makes up our "soul", our very being, or whatever you want to call that, you could have something that just disappears. Or maybe you are speaking of the embryonic spark that has the chance to grow into an eternal consciousness though it doesn't appear to always do so and many don't... Obviously that of which you speak is not that which evolves and persists eternally if it can just disappear, so that is not of which I speak. It's just an illusionary intellectual straw-man, or somethoing, but not that of which I speak..

Yes, it was the ego mind or separate self that I use the term 'mind' for - that which thinks. This is different than the so-called hermetic axiom
that "All is mind". Yes, I think the only disagreement is in word choice/definition. There is always only that which is conscious of existing. Ok.


There is the mythology, but I meant to address the reality of a "tempting" force. Aren't we compelled to do that which is denied us, what is forbidden, even if not simply to prove that we are greater than rules and laws.

I know of nothing that is denied or forbidden. Suicide might come close but is really just a real bad idea rather than forbidden as such. Haven't you ever done something that you wanted to do despite knowing it was a bad idea and that it would cost you and you did it anyway? The "cost" is part of the rules. . "I", meaning this consciousness at this time apparantly animatimg this body is not compelled to do anything though eating, drinking, breathing and defecating all come damn close to being required. What is actually against the rules that you feel compelled to act against?

Well, as i went through a stage of shining light on my shadow, I felt compelled to act against everyone! :D
Anyone saying I "should" do this or "shouldn't" do that... anyone judging me or thinking they know me better than I know myself.
Anyone claiming to be authority for me. Anyone thinking they can describe reality for me as if I don't have eyes open.
I'm not in that phase anymore, not the majority of me or my gravitational center or whatever, though I do/can still taste/visit it as the forum
observed a short time ago with my dispute with Leo Retilus when he tried to claim responsibility for my visions and experiences.
Another thing which I have seen directly and qualifies for "forbidden" is to look past "the veil of Isis", or to taste of the "tree of knowledge" guarded
by a "flaming sword". But lately when i see that place I've had a different perspective and it is I telling others why it is forbidden instead of others telling me,
and I am becoming more familiar/comfortable with "dying" from eating this fruit.
I'm sure you understand what I mean, and I also agree with you - there is nothing forbidden.


[COLOR=blue]even if not simply to prove that we are greater than rules and laws.

That might be a reasonable thing to do, going through a red light in the dead of night without a car in sight, after stopping and waiting for 5 minutes for a broken light to work, demonstrating that we are not machines without consciousness. There are a lot of hearsay "laws and rules" that all sorts of authoritarian folks have tried to impose upon the flocks being fleeced complete with highly imaginative ridiculous retributions for violating their made up rules, but let's get real. It probably isn't even possible to think anything that actually violates "real" rules of the system. Show me how to violoate the laws of gravity, motion, thermodynamics, speed of light and so forth. The real laws of the real system are no more violable. And if you can make anti-gravity and FTL work then anti-gravity and FTL fits into the rules. Man made rules might inspire men to torture or murder others of whom they don't approve, but that is merely man made mythology. The better one learns and cooperates with the real system rules via alchemy the more successful the alchemist is.at alchemy. The rules of the system inspire one towards evolution. The system needs that evolution. All the rules that impede evolution are man made.

Yes, I agree. And also gravity, speed of light, these can be broken because of greater "laws", like quantum mechanics is a larger picture than Newtonian physics.


The unprepared may achieve it before the well-prepared.

Perhaps, but I have never seen that. It is rare enough for the well prepared. And in this I don't mean the "let's play pretend" prepared of which there are all too many.. In any case the unprepared are unprepared for living in that level of knowledge and energy and find it an absolutely hellish unbearable insanity and try urgently to go back to sleep before the influx of divine knowledge destroys them. That's why it takes place in a a progression form easy little steps for muddy little feet right on to the full functioning of the system. This is one system that absolutely can't be scammed. In the book INDECENT PRACTICES - Making Sense of Tantra. JR Haule states that perhaps 1% of those claiming to be teachers of Tantra are genuine. So the other 99% are simply fooling their clients if their clients think they are actually being prepared for tantric alchemy. On the other hand if they think that they are only there to learn about sex and maybe a little Kundalini and expect nothing more then perhaps they are not being mislead.

An example, at one level of the fractal, and thus replicable in all levels, is a documentary film I just watched yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSgEILVD0BI
So there are people who wish to see what he sees and make efforts towards it and don't necessarily succeed, and here's Jonas making
no effort just "woke up one day and..."


I don't see such illusions existing when the mind ceases to exist. One doesn't perceive 'here' and 'there' or 'this' and 'other'. Thus it is called non-duality.Thus it is called non-duality. Are you saying there is more beyond non-duality? Or are you describing a pre- non-dual state? It appears pre- non-dual to me. Who would be there to think about getting out of an incubator?

I have no idea what you mean by "pre non-dual".
Yes, that was a really poor choice of words that don't really say anything. :D

IN the non-dual one doesn't perceive of God as being separate and outside of man. In non-dual one perceifves one's highest identity as being God. We are not separate from God. The world is not separate from God. Instead we are all part and parcel of the one and same and whole. Perhaps God is doing the equivalent of twiddling it's metaphorical thumbs in considering humans but is aware of having a huge number of such metaphorical thumbs. Some would say that the physical is the mind of God. Distinctions can still be seen and made but they are different distinctions than a dualist would make.

Yes, pre non-dual refers to the appearance of reality before one realizes its non-dual nature.

Who would be there to think about getting out of an incubator?

Every being (not body) who makes it to that level and completeness of consciousness would want to get out of the incubator once they have the size of consciousness, Chi etc that makes a consciousness able to be self-existent within the full system and become aware that they are in an incubator to begin with.

I guess it seems like a person who realized a universe beyond the incubator would have to re-imagine being in the incubator.
But I won't argue that often it seems we have to work to 'fix' a new realization. Perhaps it's a choice that is not a choice at all. :)


Not everyone rebels; but I wouldn't say the conformists are the spearhead of evolution. :) Cain and Satan/Lucifer are archetypal rebels.

There is absolutely nothing to rebel against. Evolution isn't really a rebellion against itself.. Evolution comes from those willing to fill in blank spots or change understanding based on a broader viewpoint.or expand past the edge of the world. Rebelling against one's self doesn't really make sense.

Yes, that's true. I guess it's just a matter of perspective. I see I'm preferring a Kabbalistic interpretation where there
must be a "B", BITh, dwelling/container to resist the expansive nature of the Light in order to have realities, to make nirvikalpa prakriti into vikalpa prakriti.
I'm also observing my own experiences where the greater the picture i see the more the little "I" is challenged.
In the Bible, "God" sends "Moses" to "Pharoah" and tells him straight out: "I will harden Pharoah's heart (against you)."
If we don't take this as a lesson in ordinary (poor word) human history, but as a history of the involution and evolution of energy or "the thing conscious of itself",
we interpret it that the evolving force is catalysed by placing the entity in a dire situation, often face-to-face with death/destruction.
I think it is accurate to say conformists will die out (we even see them kill themselves when placed in dire stressful situations) and what I call
"Rebels" evolve/adapt to the challenge. Some "resistors" will be "blown" by the greater "current" passing through, while some can manage it.

And just to clarify the Shiva - Shakti - Brahma situation alchemically speaking....

In Alchemical union then, the male and female, combine in the Shiva/Shakti union archetype and make something else entirely.

Oh yes. I got that. I was just saying that the trinity - creator, preserver, destroyer - also exists as a teaching/perspective.
I don't disagree with what you said.

I really enjoy talking with you and seeing more ways to describe ... "things". The more associations, points of view, angles/perspectives we have to
describe a "thing", the more fixed it becomes. In almost all instances, I think our differences are/were in vocabulary and details.

[/QUOTE]

III
11-02-2010, 06:03 PM
COMPUTER ARCHEOLOGY CONFERENCE, Dec 5-10, 2821
Technology Data Recovered from Deteriorated Optical Digital Media of the 21st Century

This fragmentary manuscript was found in the collection of personal effects from a computer consultant of the late 20th and early 21st century. It is somewhat confusing. It apears to be a routine commercial review of items in routine use in the early 21st century and yet because of the lack of artifacts appears to actually have been used only in a highly restrictive environment on a "need to know" basis. And yet it has features we have never duplicated and are only now reinventing We had no idea the adaptive plug technology was so advanced at the time of this writing. It appears to anticipate the universal self adaptive data connector of the 27th century after the end of the new dark ages. No samples of the 7 channel switching hardware in question has ever been found despite the appearance of widespread adoption. The fuel cell technology would indicate that this was a mission critical function, possibly of military origin and highly classified. We had no idea that small microwave wave-guide structures were used for inter-chassis data transmission in that period. The tendency to overload and leak hydraulic fluid is disturbing though since the technology is self repairing and designed to deal with that we can suppose that it did not represent a serious problem. We had thought that plug-and-play technology was in full flower at this time.

We thought that they had fully gone to light guides and optical technology though it appears that the hard connection wave guide technology was a fallback situation able to seek and find the signal in a high noise environment. Because of the uncertainty of signal acquisition a high speed burst method was used to transmit as much data as possible with extreme rapidity before the connection was lost. Suggested though not explicitly mentioned another method often used in conjunction with burst transmission is to repeat the entire set of signals many times and use information theory to extract meaningful data. Apparently the sun was changing even then and causing widespread electromagnetic interference on a scale we didn't think had happened until sometime in the 23rd century, well into the death centuries. This also appears to be the first mention ever of the current new darling of the high tech field, room temperature superconductor fiber cooling. We had no idea that such technology was developed prior to the collapse of the global culture in the beginning of the great dying. So much history and technology was lost in the Butlerian Jihad led by the 21st Century No-Nothings that we may never know the whole meaning of this manuscript fragment.


ARE THESE UNITS ACTUALLY PLUG COMPATIBLE?

While the original OEM claims that only units of their manufacture should be connected together, other manufacturers are now claiming that their replacement components are fully plug compatible. In this comparative review we are testing units supplied with anonymous cases so that OEM can't be determined by a simple visual inspection. The units being tested are coded as WDF-1 and WDF-2. They are both being tested with the same WDM-1 unit with an OEM that matches one of the WDF units but on a double blinded basis.

The WDF and WDM units are fuel cell powered and are part of large production runs though each unit is customized in many ways so that appearance can vary widely while supposedly retaining the same functionality and plug compatibility. As is common with all of these WDF and WDM units, most have performance degradation on a predictable curve as the unit ages. As there is multiple functional redundancy built in, some subsytems can suffer 90% or more performance loss without catastrophic failure, and as degradation typically follows a normal distribution curve, a rigorous preventive maintenance schedule can prevent or delay many full breakdowns until outright replacement is the only option.

Both the WDF and WDM units are multichannel, 7 main channels and more than 1000 sub-channels, information processing and automatic switching units. There are many ways connections can be made and the system can automatically map the internal connections needed to switch the information to the correct i/o channel(s) regardless of input channel(s) origin. Most connections are visible or non-visible radiant data connections. In case of noisy conditions there is one hard network connection plug unit that can operate under the noisiest of connditions. As there has been so much variation in the same basic design over many model updates both the WDM and WDF wave guide components are self sizing via inflation across a broad range.

In the WDF units the data receptacle is placed about 70 mm inside the chassis so that it is well shielded from visible and many non visible radiant spectra reducing interference noise considerably. The WDF wave guide plug receptacle automatically sizes itself to the WDM inflated wave guide. The WDM wave guide connector itself has considerable variation ranging from about 100mm to 200mm length at 4 standard deviations, with the 2 standard deviation range being about 125mm to 162.5mm of length. As the WDF waveguide receptacle typically adapts to 100% of WDM wave guide gauges the OEMs don't consider there to be any notable differences except in very rare extreme mismatches.

All three units were in the probable second half of their 2 standard deviation expected operational lifetime but still had potentially many thousands of hours of operating capacity remaining. All three units showed normal operational wear and tear and signs of previous structural repairs, possibly from impact damage. All three units were capable of sustaining specified data rates though their fuel cell systems were showing some signs of a reduced maximum power generation capacity typical of the falloff expected in the second half of the expected operational lifetime. The finish on the chassis and case of all 3 units had numerous dings and unevenness in color and finish though overall still in at least "good" condition. The fibrous case-covering showed the most shifts in density and color, with some areas comletely stripped to the base and also had been custom modified in various non-standard decorative ways making only non-operational differences in all cases.

Both WDF units operated in very similar ways and so will only be described once though any significant differences will be noted. The data transfer session is initiated in what seems like a somewhat old fashioned method now that we are all used to automatic bootstrap loading. The WDF needs the boot and warm-up sequence manually executed. This is done with a small unmarked keypad at the entry point of the WDF waveguide. The exact sequence generated depends upon how the keys are stroked as to specific place, force, direction and speed. Often the boot and warm-up sequence of the WDF can be enhanced by use of the fuel cell "IN" port attached to the small keypad. For the WDM, boot and warm-up sequence can be easily initiated by applying the WDF fuel cell "IN" port to the WDM waveguide intitating the inflation procedure if the WDM hasn't already self initiated the inflation procedure. The inflated wave-guide might be thought of as a joystick for entering the boot routine via any of several manual methods if the autoboot routine fails. Boot sequence and warm-up can take anywhere from about 15 minutes to more than an hour for the WDF waveguide receptacle to be ready for the insertion of the WDM inflatable waveguide. Sometimes an accelerated boot-up and warm-up can be initiated when time is critical but that rarely produces the best results. As units age and become less able to self generate the required waveguide lubricant a variety of commercial products are easily available. Inadequately lubricated waveguides use can cause many problems including sustained periods of inoperability though actual galling is rare. Frequent proper usage helps maintain long term functionality and quality data flows for both WDM and WDF waveguides. Actual material breakdowns can occur during prolonged periods of little or no usage as the automatic internal repair systems are not activated if the unit isn't in service regularly. There are standby mode operations that can be self intiated by both WDF and WDM to maintain system operational functionality if the units are set for tha option.

After all proper boot-up and warm-up sequences are completed the main data transfer and switching session can be initiated. Usually there is a direct hard connection of both units involved. However, if more than 2 units are involved, the units can be daisy chained. The scope of this review is strictly limited to 2 unit direct hard connection data transfer. So, upon completion of boot-up and warm-up sequences to full system specs the WDM inflated waveguide is inserted into the WDF waveguide receptacle. Because of the adaptive nature of the WDF and WDM waveguides and because the WDF waveguide receptacle has several data connection points, the system works on a continual "seek, aquire and adjust" basis as the signal is aquired and lost over and over. Sometimes a very good signal lock is acquired and the signal strength and data flow increases to maximum and can stay there for hours if the WDM system doesn't overload. This "seek, aquire and adjust" positioning system of the WDM inflatable waveguide within the WDF waveguide receptacle can go on for anywhere from minutes to hours, often until there is a system overload and discharge of the WDM capacitors usually with loss of some hydraulic fluid, bringing the data transfer session on the hard connection to a close until a suitable "cool-off and recharge" period can occur. However data transfer, somewhat slower, can continue via fuel-cell IN port to keypad or manual keypad entry. If these methods are used to maintain the WDF unit in full system data transfer readiness then no further boot-up or warm-up sequence is needed when the WDM waveguide capacitors are once again full and ready for inflating the WDM waveguide for hard connection transfer.

While the DWF-1 and DWF-2 units were superfically very similar the entire waveguide receptacle design, keypad wiring, program functionality and actual data transfer rates were very different despite both units meeting specifications. With the DWF-1 the inflatable waveguide did not seat well into one of the key data ports and so data transmission was hindered. The DWF-2 was superior in most areas of data transfer functionality with the DWM-1, and was able to reach and maintain a high data throughput for up to several hours at a time repeatedly. Because of the massive difference in actual performance the evidence would suggest that the DWF-2 and the DWM-1 were from the same OEM and hence fully compatible via a fully complementary design. This large difference calls into question whether truly plug compatible design actually exists at this time.

III
11-02-2010, 06:23 PM
This is a beautiful post. I am in complete agreement with this paradoxical explanation of time.
That is my experience also.
I've witnessed (and am now witnessing) several speeds or levels of time simultaneously.
While I don't have a computer language background, I do have a green language background,
and I have THE background, and I completely understand and agree with the view of "base class"
(I call it a foundation) and "writebacks", etc. For me one of the nearest examples we can relate to is
how often people want something, a particular reality, and get frustrated in not getting it because they
haven't seen and changed their true intent which is often subconscious - especially the intent of separation and time
(which is another level/foundation of intent as well).
I was also watching these fractal loops of time/reality today and witnessing myself casting dreams into the future/higher frequencies;
I saw it as picking up anchors that have been grounded to this dream/reality and casting them into another dream.
Then I simultaneously saw the future dream pulling in this dream/anchor like a kite on a string as if it was a memory/the past.
So I was watching three foundations at once, or three positions (maybe two foundations with the kite being a 'bridge'.)
So I witnessed the change in the direction of time, and also witnessed the flow of time from outside of it as a third person.
So i get what you're saying.

Yes, it takes one to know one.
The Jnani sees everyone as Jnanis, and the ajnani sees everyone as ajnanis.

Hi Solomon,

I'm glad you appreciated my description. That has been more difficult than the practice itself as is evident in the work of many others.

The language with which we try to understand these things first, represents whatever archetypes that we might use to explain what we see. So the "grounded anchors" for instance is a very useful archetype as it can further you long since one of the things one can do with anchors is to pull them in and cast them elsewhere. Further it's good a communicating things as it carries with it far more than what one explicitly states and it suggests future actions. Calling a disease something like "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" doesn't say anything about treating it, the answer isn't contained in the name. If it were called "Vitamin B12 deficiency - subset 7" for instance, it would be obvious that b12 has to be part of the answer and that the answer was likely quite complicated.. Object oriented language tries to use meaningful names so that it is clear what is being done by and to.

The concept of the eternal instant and how that interacts with space-time is one of the more difficult ideas. If one has relatively accurate ideas of how things work then they can be more effective at using the system. I will get to that more in response to your other recent post.

EJ Gold and others speak of setting up "the observer" and even "the observer of the observer". The observer is that which grows to become the self at the next higher major level. Some have termed bringing this "observer" into manifestation as the "birth of the Christ child". Some systems speak of 3 major levels of initiation, 3 major levels of self. As there are significant differences in language it is sometimes difficult to be sure what is meant.


For me one of the nearest examples we can relate to is how often people want something, a particular reality, and get frustrated in not getting it because they haven't seen and changed their true intent which is often subconscious - especially the intent of separation and time (which is another level/foundation of intent as well).

Of course they see the reflection of their true intent. That is one of THE SECRETs. that is rarely revealed. Instead the fantasy is that you can have your fantasy.

III
11-03-2010, 07:10 PM
So now we come to that which so many have been waiting for, SEX. See how those simple 3 letters just grab the attention? And after all, this thread is titled A Modern Sexual Alchemy. So to get it started "Did you hear the one about ....?" (Insert favorite Monty Python sex joke here.).

I use the sexual alchemy because I find it works well and repeatably. Learning of skills pays off. It can be taught and almost anybody that wants to can make progress. Most, when they get that first real look at themselves turn tail and run. Just thinking about their bodies is usually enough to scare them off. What keep's most trapped without waking up? That should be pretty easy, fear that causes the person to block out all that would be enlightenment. A sexual alchemy takes people straight to their fears of allowing more energy and information into themselves. Maybe some consider it too easy and that the way ought to be more difficult.

So now that is out of the way and on to the business at hand. I am using the words "sex" and "sexual" instead of tantric because the word tantric has picked up too much baggage meaning all sorts of different things. Many might think "sacred sex" and very few "alchemy". I have nothing at all against sacred sex, it's a good thing. It will make one a better and more sensitive lover. However, it isn't alchemy. That confuses a tool for the thing itself. Further I am not reporting theory and practice from historical sources and trying to duplicate practice from 500-5000 years ago. I will certainly use those but I make no pretense of doing or teaching anything "orthodox" according to old sources.I use a modern language with lots of nuances available and well suited for puns whenever possible. I use methods from many schools, new and old. I don't have to use language to conceal what is being done sexually and pretend that it isn't being done. The cultural and personal situations are different now from any time in the past. That is always true no matter what "now" you are speaking from. The path through the maze is constantly shifting. I haven't seen anybody suffering sexual embarrassment from exposing their ankle lately. And nursing a baby in public has become controversial. Nudity in locker rooms is being banned in some places. As a culture we have become quite insane on sex.and nudity and it's getting worse again.

I am usually not going to use euphemisms, so "sleeping with" means exactly that, SLEEPING, or attempting to.sleep, perhaps in the same bed or merely nearby. It took me a long time to be able to get used to having some body's energy right next to me. Until some months after I was married, and whenever we had a guest, even 30+ years later, I would go into erotic trance awareness with the person all or most of the night instead of sleeping as such

Perhaps "sex" isn't the right word. "Erotic" might be better as explained in INDECENT PRACTICES. And that is right there part of the problem. Centuries ago when these old accounts and instructions were written many of those being instructed were young and completely inexperienced, had very little erotic learning and very little to unlearn. So the they went through a whole starting from scratch set of experiences including sleeping on the floor at the foot of the bed in which ones future partner was sleeping.working up through stages until they are sleeping nude and cuddling together all quite without anything of an outright sexual nature occurring. This built up the erotic energies, that yearning, opening, reaching out towards your partner set of energies. These days there is a whole lot to undo, to unlearn and relearn. For instance, teenage boys are "taught" via circumstances, to hurry up and get to that ejaculation. If they spend an hour learning to "edge" as current terminology puts it the chances that they will be caught and punished increases. Further if they do it in the shower, chances are the water has been ice cold for the last 25 minutes and they are in trouble for running out all the hot water. Further depending upon the household and numbers of people impatient family members want the toilet. Further they may already be developing incorrect ideas of all kinds by watching ridiculous pornagraphy on the internet. They have adopted the sexual curse of this generation; the needing of pornographic material with a higher and higher "charge" to it to get aroused. I watch trends that are going on all over society. One would think that erectile dysfunction is a middle-aged man's problem as neuropathies, deficiencies, diabetes,heart disease and a multitude of other problems assault the aging body. And yet the number of young guys reporting a specific type of problem is becoming far more common. They speak of loosing their erection as soon as intercourse starts.

Instead of the old problem of premature ejaculation they have trained themselves and/or their bodies to expect something quite different. The internet makes it possible to carry on a dialog with such an anonymous person that would NEVER be carried on face to face. While the internet has offered this for 15 years or more, this version of the problem has been cropping up in much greater numbers the past few years only. The "why" I can only guess at. Perhaps the Viagra and Cialis advertising has made it possible to be talked about. Perhaps these young men have had access to pornography for their entire sexual life and they have trained themselves to have both high intensity arousing visual stimulation and more intense physical stimulation on certain key trigger spots that lead to quick ejaculation instead of a long slow ramp-up. Frequent high intensity physical stimulation decreases sensitivity thresholds. So these young guys are often ejaculating 2-4 times a day and can't function with their girlfriend once or twice a week. They do fine during some petting with both visual and high intensity physical stimulation but they can't even stay erect long enough to get the condom on.

This is a different problem, this new younger generation has. You add to it the psychological burden of shame that is put upon the body and sex, and the mythology that a middle aged man should know how to do sex by that time and the problems of teaching this are quite different than they used to be. How many men would actually be willing to retrain their body's sexual response from the ground up? What about women? Are they more willing to retrain their body's sexual response? I think they are. In any case the exact methods of training have to change with the times as different things have to be taught.


So now we come to THE SERPENT AND THE RAINBOW problem. The problem is one of a long and complicated, much confabulated recipe handed down via apprenticeship with no critical thinking done with one actual effective ingredient hidden amongst more than a hundred with specific directions for each ingredient. Of course when one adds critical thinking perhaps something ceases to be magik. So does knowing that the secret of the tantric meal are several specific nutrients in combination make it less effective? Does knowing that there are specific nutrients involved ruin the symbolic effect? There are other versions of magik TANTRIC meals which don't have the same effect or nutrient value. Does knowing the effects of specific nutrients make it science instead of magik? Does making it very predictably effective lessen the magik effect? Does learning about 10 or so specifically different forms of orgasm and how to do them effectively and at least reasonably repeatably make it less magik? Does that mean one can have 100 such experiences in a year instead of 1 or 2 such experiences each 5 years? What are the actual critical factors and what is confabulation baggage picked up on the way or even meant to hide completely that which is effective. The old alchemical writings hid whatever was being done under layers of jargon and convention along with intentional misdirects.

Does having an MRI movie of intercourse that shows that the penis fits the vagina completely differently than centuries worth of "common knowledge" turned into a pseudo-scientific belief system has been telling it make it less wonderous or merely more understandable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVAdCKaU3vY for the movie and the full article is at http://www.bmj.com/content/319/7225/1596.full

Does having an fMRI showing how the brain lights up during an orgasm of some variety change anything at all about the possible information content in the energy of the orgasm? Or does knowing that the entire penis is cradled in the erectile tissue of the full clitoris harm in any way the magik? Knowing all these things merely makes it easier to approach sexual alchemy with much more precision and makes specific training much easier as one can know what more of the actual critical factors are.

The old "hairy palms" (Apologies to those children of the Palmer families whose parents just had to name them Harry Palmer) and insanity is caused by masturbation claims don't hold semen in an age of scientific knowledge. Maybe the admonishment was really at some point about sharing the energies so don't be selfish and do it alone. In a world with a million humans and 50% child mortality before age 5, sex for reproduction was critical to the survival of the species. Now much less reproduction is critical to the survival of the species. We know that physical semen can't go up the spinal column though of course energies can. The old explanations don't hold up at all under examination. Knowing that daily ejaculations from age 15-75 (how about prescriptions for physical therapy?) or whatever appears to reduce prostate cancer and to increase sperm quality producing better quality babies change anything? Does knowing that actual use increases hormone levels and capacities change anything? Does knowing that it takes practice to play the energies of the body as well as a musical instrument mean anything? Instead people are kept in fearful ignorance. Chances are that there may be something real being said, such as to avoid the practices of some of the young men that are taking them into the realm of non-functionality, but it probably has nothing to do with semen itself except in one circumstance iof which I can imagine. It is possible that in a starved for b12 vegetarian society that each ejaculation takes enough b12 out of the body that over time it makes a starvation situation worse, and severe b12 deficiency can cause insanity. As we are talking some hundreds to thousands of picograms of b12 per ejaculation and a good sublingual methylb12 can put billions of picograms of mb12 into the body, and even a steak can put 3 million picograms into the body, it won't make any difference in a meat eating society. For somebody on the edge nonfunctional deficiency the loss of hundreds of picograms per day could be significant. Of course once that leaves the body by ejaculation it is gone to the ejaculator and it can't be regained unless consumed orally or absorbed vaginally

I could write lots of Alchemical sex information disguised as computer technology information. I could add 100 confabulations for each 1 piece of actual knowledge and maybe somehow encode that information so that one truly looking could find it and nobody else could see it. I know, we could have a secret society that says one thing to everybody and teaches the secrets to only it's real members, it's inner circle members. Then only those members, paying a goodly price, would get the key to understanding the information and throwing out the distractions.

III
11-04-2010, 07:12 PM
Hi Solomon, Androgynus and others,

Didn't you even get a chuckle out of my little satire? I was trying to demonstrate the understanding problem of the old disguised alchemical writings. Maybe I made my satire too obscure or dense? Or maybe nobody thought it was funny? Such are the risks of humor. Whether it was funny or not I hope I am communicating. Have fun.

Andro
11-04-2010, 09:47 PM
I was trying to demonstrate the understanding problem of the old disguised alchemical writings.

I attempted something similar a while ago, in a different context - but noone appears to have 'gotten' it :)

Quoting myself from another thread on this Forum:



I think that many of these texts and pictograms require very special 'hacking' skills to get to their core, because everytime you think you've 'got it', you may well have unknowingly slammed into another firewall, and a 'Secret Fire' Wall, I might add, because you can have seemingly great results with what you've managed to hack so far, and never even be aware that there are even deeper levels behind invisible trapdoors.... And yet, sometimes you pick up a clue, and other times you're swept away by inspiration - but what if the Rabbit Hole is a bottomless pit?

And there's also always the risk that in your journey through the Land of Oz, a journey nevertheless filled with small victories, you'll finally make it all the way to Emerald City, and even to the Wizard's most secret chambers - only to find out to your great dissapointment that there's nothing really there, and it's all been but a bunch of cheap tricks with lights, smoke and mirrors... And that the wizard is just a pathetic old man with a hot air balloon, and all there's left for you to do is click the red panic button and return to gloomy Kansas empty handed, with nothing but memories...

How heart-breaking this could be...

Analize this :)

solomon levi
11-04-2010, 09:59 PM
Hi III.
Yes, I get the satire and humor, I think. But i also feel something going over my head or that I am
missing some part of the communication. I had a brief fast and my head is kind of spinning and hard to focus,
so maybe I'll have more to say when I'm grounded.

I don't say much on this topic anyway. In my experience, sexual alchemy is the same as pranayama
but with the "seed on fire" from sexual arousal, which does make a difference.
Pranayama, to me, is using breath and visualization to raise the energy from the base chakra to the crown.
The same experience can happen with sex and more... sharing your partners energies, etc.
But there are many books on that stuff. :)

solomon levi
11-05-2010, 01:37 PM
I have a bit of humor of my own to add:

Anu - god of heaven
Anubis - god of underworld
Anu-bis = twice Anu = Anus

I could have just said Your-anus (Ouranus = heaven) but this was more inventive. :D
And it actually has real alchemy applications:
(Herm)Anubis is the mirror-reflection of Anu, his double, Mercurius duplicatus:

http://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/atalanta_emblem_10.jpg


Or we can take Re = sun
Re-bis = what a frog says
Frog = difda in Arabic = Deneb kaitos = tail of the whale/sea monster (Constellation of Cetus);
sea monster = Typhon/Tiamat, etc... again heavenly mirrored in underworld - as above, so below...


"My Son, from the beam extract its shadow."

III
11-05-2010, 06:06 PM
I have a bit of humor of my own to add:

Anu - god of heaven
Anubis - god of underworld
Anu-bis = twice Anu = Anus

I could have just said Your-anus (Ouranus = heaven) but this was more inventive. :D
And it actually has real alchemy applications:
(Herm)Anubis is the mirror-reflection of Anu, his double, Mercurius duplicatus:

http://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/atalanta_emblem_10.jpg


Or we can take Re = sun
Re-bis = what a frog says
Frog = difda in Arabic = Deneb kaitos = tail of the whale/sea monster (Constellation of Cetus);
sea monster = Typhon/Tiamat, etc... again heavenly mirrored in underworld - as above, so below...


"My Son, from the beam extract its shadow."


Hi Solomon,

Words can be so much fun. I try to not turn down a good straight line. So much can be said as the tension between opposing things that can't be spoken directly. And in the metaphysical practice there are times when one must balance the extremes.

solomon levi
11-06-2010, 02:01 AM
I just noticed Aleilius' quote on the Sphinx protecting science and thought of my Anus post. :D
How to get at the (c)hyle beyond the Sphinx!

Words are so much fun!

III
11-06-2010, 06:38 PM
I attempted something similar a while ago, in a different context - but noone appears to have 'gotten' it :)

Quoting myself from another thread on this Forum:
I think that many of these texts and pictograms require very special 'hacking' skills to get to their core, because everytime you think you've 'got it', you may well have unknowingly slammed into another firewall, and a 'Secret Fire' Wall, I might add, because you can have seemingly great results with what you've managed to hack so far, and never even be aware that there are even deeper levels behind invisible trapdoors.... And yet, sometimes you pick up a clue, and other times you're swept away by inspiration - but what if the Rabbit Hole is a bottomless pit?

And there's also always the risk that in your journey through the Land of Oz, a journey nevertheless filled with small victories, you'll finally make it all the way to Emerald City, and even to the Wizard's most secret chambers - only to find out to your great dissapointment that there's nothing really there, and it's all been but a bunch of cheap tricks with lights, smoke and mirrors... And that the wizard is just a pathetic old man with a hot air balloon, and all there's left for you to do is click the red panic button and return to gloomy Kansas empty handed, with nothing but memories...

How heart-breaking this could be...


Analize this :)

Hi Androgynus,

I hadn't come across this. Thank you for re-posting it here. If I had come across it I think I probably would have said "Well of course".

even deeper levels behind invisible trapdoors.

EJ Gold and friends describe this as being "All Nintendoed up". You have to burn a lot of bushes and blow up a lot of rocks to find all the goodies (Zelda). They have put out a series of computer games written in their game engine G.O.D.D. One of the levels of one of the games is a step by step journey through the Alchemists lab.

In my practice I have found that every "Octave" there is a secret firewall that delivers the message "At last I have made IT"., Most likely don't look beyond that. Then there are all the trapdoors that have to be found and a series of progressively more complicated gates to make it through. Then when one thinks At Last...it starts all over again at the next larger scale. It is truely piled higher and deeper.

Then when the tree has been climbed to the highest level in the iincubator there is a speed of light firewall that serves to keep most trapped in the illusion of this small piece of creation. A possible interpretation of the gnostic writings concerning the mad "demiurge" usurping the real God is that they couldn't see past that firewall and so thought that they had reached the "root node" of the tree instead of just this tiny snipped off portion of the tree which, because of inherent characteristics of an infinite binary tree, looks like the full tree instead of just one branch. It is the full tree in miniature, as above so below.

To get through that requires an entirely different approach. The rabbit hole is endless going down. However there is a top. One must find the direction of convergence. Climbing the tree puts one into continual contest with increasingly divergent variations of ones self whereas descending the tree one is always the biggest kid on the block and is far easier and feels like always being on top. It is the petty ego's preferred direction.

it's all been but a bunch of cheap tricks with lights, smoke and mirrors.

Of course. As the ONLY way we can interpret any of this is via the archetypes that we automatically pull up most resembling what we think we see. As we expand our range of acceptable archetypes the special effects can get fancier and perhaps closer to a more accurate representation. So the ONLY sensory perceptions we can see are those that we can supply an archetype for. We might perceive other things but they don't make "sense" until we can describe and label them.

And that the wizard is just a pathetic old man with a hot air balloon

My wizard archetype rarely uses hot air balloons these days. Jaunting is a superior mode of transport.

and all there's left for you to do is click the red panic button and return to gloomy Kansas empty handed, with nothing but memories...

Our habits constitute the auto return mechanism. From the entirety of this current life you are leading all you have are memories. However, to the extent our experiences shape us, we return with whatever changes we have made in self.

And there's also always the risk that in your journey through the Land of Oz, a journey nevertheless filled with small victories, you'll finally make it all the way to Emerald City, and even to the Wizard's most secret chambers - only to find out to your great disappointment that there's nothing really there

Ah yes, Great Expectations can be so disappointing. In the metaphysical world the payoffs are knowlege and understanding and many things that are literally unspeakable.There is "no thing" to walk away with and no legs to walk and no ground to walk on. There are no great fanfares. When one is actually in a chamber where things can be changed, one must self recognize that as there are no flashing lights, fanfares or greeting committees or any thing else to signal such.

return to gloomy Kansas empty handed, with nothing but memories...

Before enlightenment; chop wood and carry water.
After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.

As Cunnard Lines used to advertise "Getting there is half the fun". In this pursuit getting there is ALL the fun.

Andro
11-06-2010, 07:12 PM
III, it was a great pleasure to read your comments. Thank you :)

Of course, what I wrote in the above quote is multi-levelled, and words that appear to represent 'bad' things are actually meant to allow for meaning exactly the opposite :)

That was an attempt, not much unlike yours, to use an archetypal language of sorts, and then lay back and let the average reader's dualistic mindframe do all the fragmentation while interpreting.
(I'm not saying this is your case :))

Thanks again!

III
11-08-2010, 06:37 AM
Hi III.
Yes, I get the satire and humor, I think. But i also feel something going over my head or that I am
missing some part of the communication. I had a brief fast and my head is kind of spinning and hard to focus,
so maybe I'll have more to say when I'm grounded.

I don't say much on this topic anyway. In my experience, sexual alchemy is the same as pranayama
but with the "seed on fire" from sexual arousal, which does make a difference.
Pranayama, to me, is using breath and visualization to raise the energy from the base chakra to the crown.
The same experience can happen with sex and more... sharing your partners energies, etc.
But there are many books on that stuff. :)


Hi Solomon,

I'll lay out what I intentionally put in that piece. If you see more or missed some I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.

First let me say that I think all these things in life have a higher purpose though not always what we might understand or think. For instance there is a regular cycle of "out and back", sort of like kick the can. When we come back we bring what we have learned from the farthest we have reached and managed to remember and incorporate. Then we share that, aiding the common effort even if not obvious.

So first of all let's consider the observation point 700 years from now. 20th century English is a dead language. There has been a planet-wide collapse. All societies have gone through a collapse and new ones have grown in the cultural composts of our times. Most of the fine details have been lost and even the broad well known details are about as well known as the details of daily life and technology of 1400 AD is to us. In the cultural collapse a lot of detail, vocabulary and distinctions have been lost. In re-arising the new culture makes different linguistic distinctions in different ways. People have been through two inguistic changes, one the collapse to a non-literate dark ages peasant and then an ascent into an educated techological society and a much larger and more complex language with perhaps radically different cultural assumptions. Let's say a set of changes such as happened with the fall of Rome and the re-emergence of an educated culture 2000 years later. Let's assume that the vast amount of printed material helped preserve some knowledge and make recovery of technology easier than re-inventing it from scratch.

For starters the whole things is about human sex. We have 2 Divorced White Females and 1 Divorced White Male in separate heterosexual encounters being compared. The 7 channels are the 7 main chakras. The 1000+ sub-channels are the petals. As I have stated before all the channels are information channels. From 700 years out commercial and cultural distinctions from a 50 years period may not be remembered. So "plug compatible" goes back to IBM's attempt to prevent outside sources for disk drives etc. It was certainly an important computer issue for one short period of time. "Waveguide" can apply to any kind of wave in liquid, light, microwave etc. However, a finer distinction "optic fiber" exists for light and the term "waveguide" generally isn't used in terms of liquids so the assumption is "microwave" though that is never said. Further there is some Alchemical information injected here. The "lingam", a "wand of light" is quite literally a waveguide, guiding the energy out the chakra on the end off the penis plugging into the corresponding chakra in the woman's vagina. When that occurs it's almost like the energy lasing.

This is an example of translations creating detail and distinctions that may not have existed in the original, especially in coming from a less complex to more complex language. In talking about snow, Western US skiers and Eastern US skiers use different language sets. There are a dozen or two terms making distinctions amongst various hard frozen surfaces in the east that are all called "ice" in the west. And of course what is called "black ice" on a road surface is called "blue ice" on a ski slope or intentionally fatal protection measures in cyberspace (William Gibson - Neuromancer)

Using MM instead of inches in stating waveguide length and using ranges with number of standard deviations helps establish that this is a technological paper and again is what would be expected about microwave waveguides and reinforces the assumptions. The fiber covering is of course shifting hair patterns. Great idea for cooling a chassis with room temperature superconducting fibers (Niven did that kind of superconductor cooling decades ago) and dependent upon their future development to be able to part of their assumptions. "Butlerian Jihad", what can I say if they got ancient fiction confused with ancient history. And while the Know-Nothings are a 19th century political group, again what's 140 years from a 700-800 year persepctive. And for all they know the KNs did survive. And again maybe there is a "Revenge of the No Nothings" or some such a little later in this century that perhaps hurries on the collapse that the future translators know more about than we do. Or maybe the Know Nothings and the No Nothings are two quite different groups confused by sounding the same.

So mostly we have a pretty straight forward word substitution cipher with bodies and sex being described so as to sound like products of technology. There are key words that refer to out of time sequence things and that are intentional misdirects. I didn't throw in confabulation.

So there are all sorts of ways to get confused. The subject can be misidentified. Words can be misunderstood. False archetypes can be triggered. False trails can be followed. Ignorance of everyday items that "everybody knows" are not written down for 1000 years hence. Language and cultural assumptions change.

In my experience, sexual alchemy is the same as pranayama but with the "seed on fire" from sexual arousal, which does make a difference.

There are certainly some similarities. There are a lot of similar tools producing very similar results. However, there are subtle distinctions amongst the various tools and effects. It is these fine distinctions that can make all the differences in the world.



Pranayama, to me, is using breath and visualization to raise the energy from the base chakra to the crown. The same experience can happen with sex and more... sharing your partners energies, etc.

It's the things for which there is no alternative that is most interesting. There are some alternatives in which ones partner are invoked non-physical beings. It still is a required partner to do these things with.

But there are many books on that stuff. :)

There are indeed. Some are excellent. Some are merely regurgitated readings from elsewhere. Some are fantasy. J.R. Haule estimated that 99% of those purporting to be teaching tantric mysticism were not doing so. None of them include unspoken teachings. However, I know of no books that teach in any way many of the most important aspects. None share energies or teach the intricacies of sharing energies, of cooperating in all kinds of amazing ways, of opening complicated gates and of doing "alchemical union" or even what it really means. In fact all the amazing interactions that are taught by doing them with somebody are indescribable in a book.

Also, most such books are weak on theory. If you know what the structure is and how things work it is much easier to learn to work with it. The structure itself can suggest ways to work with it.

III
12-01-2010, 06:00 AM
One of the problems with Tantric practice us that a lot of old books and teachings have described it in ways that conflict with "scientific" viewpoints. So one sees books trying to explain "semen" being "raised up the spine to nourish the brain". I have seen lots of verbiage wasted on trying to justify such a thing. Bypassing ejaculation while experiencing orgasmic energies happens. It's not terribly difficult, one just has to pay attention and practice. "Raising" the orgasm up the spine makes more sense because an orgasm is energy and follows the energy channels, "nerves". However, when one "raises" the orgasm, it is merely hypothesis that it is up the spine as that was the only channel known until recently. Now that vagus nerve orgasms are a proven reality there is a second channel that could be experienced differently. In women, the vagus nerve orgasm was learned about studying orgasming women with injured or missing spinal cords.. For decades there was the argument about "vaginal" versus "clitoral" orgasms. The vagus nerve is hooked up to the cervical triggers and maybe the g-spot and maybe parts of the main body of the clitoris that splits into inflatable tubes running along either side of the vagina. along with the viscera. Women have direct access to the vagus nerve hookups. The seven (or nine) stages of Taoist orgasm can all be explained in terms the orgasmic trigger point or points activated for both orgasm responses, which are different. For men it's less direct but could certainly be hypothesized. When "raising" the orgasm it certainly seems to spread into the viscera as it travels upwards and is something different from the usual external penile stimulation result. It certainly seems to be a more realistic explanation than learning to suck water or mercury into one's bladder to explain absorption of things from a woman's orgasmic fluids. Science has shown that women absorb hormones, vitamin B12 if present and who knows what else right through the mucosa. Men absorb B12 and other substances the same way without any straining at gnats to explain it as literally sucking fluids into the penis. Medications given by suppository are old hat. There are a lot of theories that originated with little understanding of physiology and biochemistry that can be re-explained in ways consistant with science. Unfortunately science is no more accepting of sexual empathy or telepathy than they are of "subtle bodies". However, they have found neurons whose job appears to be to mirror or model the other person. And that may not be a correct answer, but it can be used to support the responses reported.

Strong orgasmic response does "nourish" the brain, with increased oxygenation instead of semen. Energy "transfer" occurs, whether with subtle bodies and/or absorption of B12 or whatever.

The anus is attached to the vagus nerve and the prostate may be. Indirect stimulation to certain areas around the interior base of the penis can appear to lead to vagus nerve orgasms in the male. As the nervous system grows and responds to training, it is reasonable to speak of redirecting orgasms up the "spine" or at least raising them. Under the perineum, where the "Kundalini reservoir" is located could very well be the terminus area of the vagus nerve. While much has been attributed to hypothetical spinal channels perhaps the vagus nerve is the actual channel. I don't know what the "real" answers are. I am saying that applying a different hypothesis can lead to different conclusions and possibly different methods of learning.and teaching. Detectable neuron growth can be had in 2 weeks of practice of a new skill.

How our systems are wired makes access to these things easy and unavoidable. People just interested in having "sacred sex" often find themselves starting to have mystical experiences much to their surprise. This mystical access is built in. The vagus nerve appears to hook into our "cosmic modem". So all this "Tantric sex" or "Alchemical sex" might just be explained in terms of normal sexual functioning once one gets past the fears and blocks.

Avatar
12-02-2010, 05:00 AM
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Avatar
12-02-2010, 05:06 AM
Bladder kidney channels.
I will be starting traditional vajroli practise soon.
silver rod and all.
No bacteria generating catheter.

I have personal experience with these practices.
But my belief is not solid as I have not figured it out yet.
It certainly does not go up the spine.
and the vegus nerve, almost defiantly vital to proper pranayama " which will make the entire Nervouse system, rapidly fire even too the point of involuntary muscle tension. If done for an extended period of time, the body becomes magnetic to itself)
and that, is just proper pranayama.
proper pranayama should take no more than 5 minutes to activate.

Sexual energy should not travel up the front nor back, but should go threw the center channel, so that both front and back rise together in blissful raptures. Though the bliss of being is not the same. same but different contexts when it comes to meanings.
As well, their becomes much more Semenal fluid than semen itself.
a good way to know that "any" sexual energy has been sublimated, is the smell under your arm, will alter and change based on degree sublimated, dryness, moisture factor.
this change is present even on very low subliminations.
One ejaculation brings down the upwards flow equal to streangth of ejaculation.
all that's left is efficiency once you know what your doing to do.
method vs ease
Sufficient=easy
Little time, much result.
Microcosmic orbit is dangerous.
Just so you all know.

III
12-04-2010, 07:46 AM
Bladder kidney channels.
I will be starting traditional vajroli practise soon.
silver rod and all.
No bacteria generating catheter.

I have personal experience with these practices.
But my belief is not solid as I have not figured it out yet.
It certainly does not go up the spine.
and the vegus nerve, almost defiantly vital to proper pranayama " which will make the entire Nervouse system, rapidly fire even too the point of involuntary muscle tension. If done for an extended period of time, the body becomes magnetic to itself)
and that, is just proper pranayama.
proper pranayama should take no more than 5 minutes to activate.

Sexual energy should not travel up the front nor back, but should go threw the center channel, so that both front and back rise together in blissful raptures. Though the bliss of being is not the same. same but different contexts when it comes to meanings.
As well, their becomes much more Semenal fluid than semen itself.
a good way to know that "any" sexual energy has been sublimated, is the smell under your arm, will alter and change based on degree sublimated, dryness, moisture factor.
this change is present even on very low subliminations.
One ejaculation brings down the upwards flow equal to streangth of ejaculation.
all that's left is efficiency once you know what your doing to do.
method vs ease
Sufficient=easy
Little time, much result.
Microcosmic orbit is dangerous.
Just so you all know.

Hi Avaar186,

First let's start with a quote from JR Haule in Making Sense of Tantra.

Here, in Vimalananda's own words as recalled by Svoboda, vajroli is presented as a rollicking contest:
I know I said that the female should under no circumstances climb on top of the male. I stand by this statement as far as sex between ordinary people is concerned, but the situation is different, vastly different, when two people know Vajroli. Then it becomes a friendly competition. I start off with one posture and try to take her off guard and overwhelm her with the sensation. She will respond by changing my posture into a slightly different one, trying to get the upper hand. A rhythm of its own develops, a musical melody, and both of us begin to dance while we are still making love. There's nothing like it; you just can't imagine the feeling.
Suppose she tries to maneuver herself on top of me. If she succeeds she will gloat: "Ha, what sort of Shiva are you? Now I will be in control." I can't allow that, so as soon as she comes on top I will suddenly, effortlessly, and gracefully transform that posture into one in which I am in control. Then I can tell her, "You dare not try to control me; I am your controller!" And as I speak those words she will be converting that posture into another one more favorable to her.
When both partners have full knowledge of Vajroli there is mutual benefit. She releases a little of her secretion to him, just enough to lubricate his prostate; he releases just enough of his prostate fluid to rejuvenate her. . . .
Vajroli is not a joke. A man who uses full force Vajroli on an ordinary woman will cause her to bleed. She may even lose control over her sphincters and soil the bed. It can cause complete revulsion for sex, or it can create nymphomania. When a woman who knows Vajroli "milks" a man of his semen he discharges and discharges until he is empty and still must discharge. The tension becomes so great he cannot bear it. So this knowledge is not to be toyed with, lest you ruin yourself and others with you. When both partners know Vajroli, though, well, there is nothing like it in the world. You'll forget all about sex except with that partner.
Vajroli is only the beginning. After Vajroli there are Rajjoli, Sahajoli, Amaroli, and Gaupya -- but no one knows about Gaupya except Lord Shiva Himself. These techniques are very difficult to describe in words and can be practiced only when the two partners can leave their bodies at will. The Vedantins [7 (http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet01.html#fn7)] talk about "Atma krida, atma ratih, atma maithunam," meaning the love play, eroticism, and sexual union of the Universal Soul, but they don't understand the true meaning of it. What happens is that the male must enter the female's body with his subtle body, and vice versa. Then the man will be able to feel the spasms his mate undergoes as each erogenous zone is ignited, and she can do the same thing in his body. They both thoroughly enjoy each other's play before the final coitus occurs.
Vajroli is a mutual clashing, interaction, and union of two personalities into one. Shiva and Shakti merge together into Sadashiva; the proton and the electron reunite to form the neutron. Just as in physics such a union is associated with tremendous energy, the union of Vajroli is associated with awesome Shakti, which can be used for great spiritual advancements. It is the achievement of a lifetime (Svoboda, 1986: 287-9).
As vajroli is defined as a friendly competition, or a rollicking contest:and I would agree with that, also a cooperative ascending dance. The two paragraphs below are most descriptive.

Vajroli is only the beginning. After Vajroli there are Rajjoli, Sahajoli, Amaroli, and Gaupya -- but no one knows about Gaupya except Lord Shiva Himself. These techniques are very difficult to describe in words and can be practiced only when the two partners can leave their bodies at will.

What happens is that the male must enter the female's body with his subtle body, and vice versa. Then the man will be able to feel the spasms his mate undergoes as each erogenous zone is ignited, and she can do the same thing in his body. They both thoroughly enjoy each other's play before the final coitus occurs.

When both partners know Vajroli, though, well, there is nothing like it in the world. You'll forget all about sex except with that partner.

Nowhere on this topic is the doctrine of physically drawing in the others juices, silver rods in the urethra, retention of liquid in the bladder or anything else mentioned. Haule does mention it elsewhere as a training exercise.that some very determined persons undertake. Now I'm not following any orthodoxy of definition, I'm not doing school training exercises to strengthen my PC muscles or trying to reverse normal direction of flows. I'm not trying to prove a hypothetical occurance, said hypotheisis invented to describe some very real effects a long time before physiology and biochemistry are known. I'm not trying to be somebody's definition of a Tantric Master. I'm an Alchemist using various methods for achieving things with the subtle body as described above, among other things, So, as in THE SERPANT AND THE RAINBOW, I have worked out some alternative hypothetical descriptions more in line with physiology and biochemistry. There are many steps that are traditional yet may not accomplish anything useful for Alchemy

She releases a little of her secretion to him, just enough to lubricate his prostate; he releases just enough of his prostate fluid to rejuvenate her. . . .

Absorption happens without any elaborate efforts merely as an effect of time. Absorption in all the tissues is time dependent. I did a set of tests for instance allowing me to calculate the rate of absorption of methylb12 and adenosylb12 via oral mucosa versus injections. All sorts of medications and vitamins can be given sublingually. The vaginal mucosa are very similar tissues. The penis above the circumcision scar which would normally be under the foreskin and naturally moist by secretion but kerotinized when exposed is very similar and probably somewhat better at absorption than ordinary skin. The bladder is less effective at absorption than the oral mucosa according to research. In the female male hormone absorption has been measurewd and edemonstrated when it was noticed that women whose partners didn't wear condoms were less depressed. Further semen (not sperm, the liquid component) has up to about 100 times the transcobalamin content of blood allowing one ejaculation to potentially contain as much active b12 as 10% of all one's blood. This is enough to make a very noticeable difference in one even slightly deficient. Holotranscobalamin (transcobalamin with b12 on board) is directly absorpable and protects the b12 from excretion by kidneys.

Several hundred years ago it might have seemed reasonable to hypothesize actually drawing in the fluids to absorb from them, now we know that is not necessary at all.

40+ years ago when I was teaching skiing, during instructors training we had to ski down the hill with our gloves between our knees without dropping them. This was an attention training exercise. It was not meant as an objective in itself. When the ski boots changed from leather to plastic, the "final forms" we had to learn changed because the leather boot ways didn't work with plastic boots. When I used to take long solo cross-country drives I would drink lots of liquid when tired and the bladder pain was sufficient to keep me awake no matter what.

And of course in many periods and cultures gone by there was about a 2 year conditional training period during which students would be given much to keep them busy building some skills of attention and the like and not be exposed to the "secret knowledge" until after proving ones self worthy, for many reasons including avoiding the "casting of pearls before swine".

That pattern of back and forth releases of fluids becomes most effect when maintained over a period of several hours as the two partners play an energy level leapfrog that is fully cooperative despite the possible appearance of competition.

But my belief is not solid as I have not figured it out yet.

Good luck. Personally I think you are straining at gnats. It is not a matter of belief.

The spinal nerves and the vagus nerve are the two direct neurological paths. The seven (nine) levels of orgasm of Taoist fame are real enough and translate directly to either spinal nerve paths, vagus nerve pathway or both being aroused in various ways. Learn them, practice them and then try to describe them in ways consistent with modern physiological knowledge. It would be most interesting to watch fMRI images during the various stages to see just what the differences in the brain are. I can feel chakra energies with my hands and various other parts of my body. I see no reason to hypothesize an extra neurological cause and then set out to prove it. We have multiple nervous systems which all activate in various ways with sexual arousal. With practice we can make conscious some of the 3 sympathetic nervous system sections along with the usual sensory and motor systems. Another thing that can be made conscious with practice is the old lizard brain sight center which see things differently than the mammalian sight system based on the optic nerve and visual centers.

The smell under your arms will change for all sorts of reasons from diet to hormones to flora from your sex partner to going nude. A few days nude with bathing and there is a complete change of flora and odor.under the arm and every where else for that matter. Clothing radically changes that amd causes much stink.

As well, their becomes much more Semenal fluid than semen itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen
Semen is an organic fluid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid), also known as seminal fluid,

As you see semen and seminal fluid are one and the same. Your statement makes no sense. I believe you are likely confusing sperm with semen.

I must confess I have no idea what you are talking about in part of your post such as your confusion about semen.

In any case I suggest Indecent Practices and Erotic Trance: Making Sense of Tantra by John Ryan Haule


http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet.html
You may find it helpful. Again it's a much more current description by Jungian therapist who has taken up the practice.

Avatar
12-04-2010, 11:56 AM
Hahaha so my knowledge of the difference between sperm and semen was off.
Sperm=white
Semen=clear
Yes..?
it's not just the "bliss" of orgasm you are bringing up, you want everything, so that vitality and such multiplies.

Jing is infinite no? We can concentrate it once a day easily.
subliminate Jing into chi/vitality
and vitality into mental energy.
Anyways, I'll let ya know if the silver tube works or not.
simple absorption like that, if it was that easy, then promotion of simple sex would suffice.

The mammalian brain?
Feel?
Feel don't think-Bruce lee
Feeling-consciousness/cit - Author Avalon
listen,silence is golden-birdie brain

Avatar
12-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Anyways.
sublimation and transformation of sexual energy/fluid
Is supposed to be a way of attaining Amrita.
Sexual lust is said to be the thing which destroys Amerita, so attaining it threw mastery of the sexual organ seems smart.
immortality is contained within the method applied correctly.
I am not armchair philosopher, I am practionair.
everyone takes the practise too lightly and obscures it.

A tip!
When real sexual energy is being sublimated, all heat goes from genitals, lust disappears, and you feel refreshed. If u do activly subliminate energy, refreshment and should be felt, not Nervouse depression associated with ejaculation.
as well the body will turn physical red, and sperm nor semen will fall, and this comes with ease.
Oh yes! I forgot, lol after u truly subliminate sexual fluid, specially if done activly, and almost only during this time, you will experience an extreme comfortable uphoria equal to dagree of raised energy. When this goes away, your raw vitality will be noticeably higher. and the functions of the body as well.

III
12-04-2010, 07:33 PM
Hahaha so my knowledge of the difference between sperm and semen was off.
Sperm=white
Semen=clear
Yes..?
it's not just the "bliss" of orgasm you are bringing up, you want everything, so that vitality and such multiplies.

Jing is infinite no? We can concentrate it once a day easily.
subliminate Jing into chi/vitality
and vitality into mental energy.
Anyways, I'll let ya know if the silver tube works or not.
simple absorption like that, if it was that easy, then promotion of simple sex would suffice.

The mammalian brain?
Feel?
Feel don't think-Bruce lee
Feeling-consciousness/cit - Author Avalon
listen,silence is golden-birdie brain

Hi Avaar,

Good luck in your pursuits. To be able to speak reasonably on things we need definitions in common.

Sperm=white
Semen=clear
Yes..?

No. Sperm = little wiggly gametes with half a DNA complement and under powerful light can be seen as tiny moving specks or as cells with tails under a microscope. Even a person who has a zero sperm count has semen with clear and milky looking components. The various secretions come from several sources and is combined. It contains hormones, nutrients pH modifiers, carbohydrate and concentrated ATP in the sperm itself. Many of the female fluids are quite similar from similar tissues. Stage of arousal and orgasm can be identified via the qualities of the female secretions. There are thick and slippery, milky color secretions at one stage from one place, clear, colorless and watery with a lot of sugar for another one However, during the "glide" that Haule speaks of the clear slippery prostatic fluid can flow quite copiously for hours. In the ESO book they speak of that as one stage of orgasm. I associate it with a certain degree of interpenetration of the subtle bodies and can happen across the room with a suitable lady, no touching required, or even with a non-marterial partner such as is taught in some forms of Tantra. During several other stages different fluids can "flow". This is without ejaculation or any spurts or whatever and happens if certain sphincters open at various levels of arousal. Learning to separate the signals of ejaculation, erection and orgasm(s) allows a great deal of control. Loss of erection for most follows an ejaculation but not these non-ejaculatory flows.


Anyways, I'll let ya know if the silver tube works or not.
simple absorption like that, if it was that easy, then promotion of simple sex would suffice.

I sincerely doubt that "simple" sex suffices regardless of the absorption route. First, the sex needs to be engaged positionally etc so as to keep the fluids inside the vagina for several hours for the absorption to take place substantially. The extended intercourse spoken of is a minimal requirement. Progressing through the seven (nine) stages of Taoist orgasm does also produce extended intercourse and quite precise application of stimulation. It isn't simple or everybody would do it. The absorption is easy and natural and happens automatically. Allowing the flow of the fluids to bath the organs internally is needed rather than nothing and then suddenly all at once via ejaculation and it's over doesn't work. They say there are multiple ways to skin a cat. I've never done that so I'll have to be satisfied to say that there is more than one way to shave said feline. There are multiple ways to handle ejaculation and the results differ. Suppressing it through muscle strength produces a different result than learning control of the nerve signals and bypassing it with finesse or external pressure is different yet again. Learning to control the different signals is fairly simple but just takes a lot of practice. It is bypassing the ejaculation signal and allowing the continued ascent of the energies that ends up leaving one filled with ecstatic energies for hours and effects that lasts for days with a substantial change of consciousness. As there is a complete loss of time binding one can return from these experiences and find that many hours have passed for the bodies as a much greater apparant duration has passed for the consciousness. It is during this ascent when much mystical experience can be had including joint out of body experiences and the "how" of eternal life (not to be confused with "immortal" life). These give experiences that allow the evolution and growth of the eternal being of our "self".

subliminate Jing into chi/vitality

I do not understand your usage of "sublimate". Do you mean "transmute"?

What do you not understand about the "mammalian brain"?

I studied neurological anatomy in school, have had mammalian pets as well as iguanas and an Amazon Green parrot. The brains of each kind of creature have different types of limitations and responses.

We still have the reptilian brain at the core of our brains with additional evolutionary layers wrapped around it. Many of our behaviors originate in the reptilian core and are modified by higher levels. Other things originate in the higher layers.

In the various yogas concerned with energy and mystical experience one learns how to pay attention to some of these pathways and no doubt grow new neurons by paying such attention and using them.

Avatar
12-07-2010, 12:28 AM
K.
I apologize for not posting sooner, lots of busyness.
tantra has many uses for sex and all other things.
I am simply talking of a perticular effect.

Basically.
the urine beckons upwards, it's as if it does not want to leave the body.
When this condition happens ( and it is not a medical issues)
Sexual fluid will not leave the body, the body becomes immensely red and hot with the activation of sexual fluid, one will feel refreshed as if just getting out of the ocean on a sunny day.
And vitality ascends.
Yes transmutation.
I say sublimation because if the presence of heat, and the intensity of transmutation.

The redness is dark red, deep, and not quickly fading.
The quicker the redness fades, the weaker the transmutation.
a strong transmutation will turn the face red, the feet, the elbows knees and joints.
Redness will descends from the chess to the stomach, it will consume the legs with color.
The back will turn red, rising from the butt.
You will feel heat eminate off you.
And instantly your smell will change, as well as your eyes awareness of light and dark, shades, < these are the easiest and most noticeable signs, they happen quickly and with weaker transmutation. Specially smell.
it is instantaneous change. " within moments"

Yes, Jing into chi into Shen is transmutation and is Chinese explanation of it.
I do believe it must have to do with a vacuum pressure within ye bladder/kidney channel.

Though I could be wrong, this seems the only anatomical way.
Either way it's an experience I've only been able to re creat on a low scale.

Ah, and semen turns clear. Less milky white. more clear dominate, though this stops when I stop soon breathing technique during sexual stimulation.

mammalian brain?
I am familiar with it, what aspects do you know?
Question. What part of brain deals with feelings and breathing?

As my breathing technique makes the entire Nervouse system rapidly fire.
It is intense experience and one I can actually orally Teach and share. :D

III
12-07-2010, 01:48 AM
K.
I apologize for not posting sooner, lots of busyness.
tantra has many uses for sex and all other things.
I am simply talking of a perticular effect.

Basically.
the urine beckons upwards, it's as if it does not want to leave the body.
When this condition happens ( and it is not a medical issues)
Sexual fluid will not leave the body, the body becomes immensely red and hot with the activation of sexual fluid, one will feel refreshed as if just getting out of the ocean on a sunny day.
And vitality ascends.
Yes transmutation.
I say sublimation because if the presence of heat, and the intensity of transmutation.

The redness is dark red, deep, and not quickly fading.
The quicker the redness fades, the weaker the transmutation.
a strong transmutation will turn the face red, the feet, the elbows knees and joints.
Redness will descends from the chess to the stomach, it will consume the legs with color.
The back will turn red, rising from the butt.
You will feel heat eminate off you.
And instantly your smell will change, as well as your eyes awareness of light and dark, shades, < these are the easiest and most noticeable signs, they happen quickly and with weaker transmutation. Specially smell.
it is instantaneous change. " within moments"

Yes, Jing into chi into Shen is transmutation and is Chinese explanation of it.
I do believe it must have to do with a vacuum pressure within ye bladder/kidney channel.

Though I could be wrong, this seems the only anatomical way.
Either way it's an experience I've only been able to re creat on a low scale.

Ah, and semen turns clear. Less milky white. more clear dominate, though this stops when I stop soon breathing technique during sexual stimulation.

mammalian brain?
I am familiar with it, what aspects do you know?
Question. What part of brain deals with feelings and breathing?

As my breathing technique makes the entire Nervouse system rapidly fire.
It is intense experience and one I can actually orally Teach and share. :D

Hi Avaar,

Yes indeed, sex does cause redness as you describe, often taking hours to fade. It is called "SEX FLUSH"


The redness is dark red, deep, and not quickly fading.
The quicker the redness fades, the weaker the transmutation.
a strong transmutation will turn the face red, the feet, the elbows knees and joints.
Redness will descends from the chess to the stomach, it will consume the legs with color.
The back will turn red, rising from the butt.
You will feel heat eminate off you.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flushing_%28physiology%29
Sex flush

Commonly referred to as the sex flush, vasocongestion (increased blood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood) flow) of the skin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin) can occur during all four phases of the human sexual response cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexual_response_cycle). Studies show that the sex flush occurs in approximately 50–75% of females (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female) and 25% of males (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male), yet not consistently. The sex flush tends to occur more often under warmer conditions and may not appear at all under cooler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool) temperatures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature).
During the female (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female) sex flush, pinkish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink) spots develop under the breasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast), then spread to the breasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast), torso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torso), face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face), hands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hands), soles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_%28foot%29) of the feet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot), and possibly over the entire body (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body). Vasocongestion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasocongestion) is also responsible for the darkening of the clitoris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris) and the walls of the vagina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina) during sexual arousal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_arousal). During the male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male) sex flush, the coloration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color) of the skin develops less consistently than in the female, but typically starts with the epigastrium (upper abdomen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdomen)), spreads across the chest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chest), then continues to the neck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neck), face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face), forehead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forehead), back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back), and sometimes, shoulders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder) and forearms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forearm).
The sex flush typically disappears soon after orgasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgasm) occurs, but this may take up to two hours or so, and sometimes intense sweating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat) will occur simultaneously.


Flushing is also a cardinal symptom of carcinoid syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinoid_syndrome)—the syndrome that results from hormones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone) (often serotonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin) or histamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histamine)) being secreted into systemic circulation.


I and my partner often experience such a flush, heat and intense flushing. It is a normal part of the territory. Sex can release hormones ansd neurotransmitters into systemic circulation.

And instantly your smell will change, as well as your eyes awareness of light and dark, shades, < these are the easiest and most noticeable signs, they happen quickly and with weaker transmutation. Specially smell. it is instantaneous change. " within moments"

I suspect that it is actually the SENSE of smell that changes along with the sensory experience of light and dark. There is also a sensory change in the feeling of touch. As a matter of fact the sense of touch starts changing almost immediately and continues to do so during the entire sexual experience. These perceptual changes are caused by changes in "chambers" (EJ Gold's terminology) caused by changes in neurotransmitters and subtle body interpenetration, orgasmic changes (again, hormones and neurotransmitters). For those with an acute sense of smell the actual odors of the hormones and neurotransmitters my even be sensed. Also, when semen mixes with the female secretions there can be quite a strong odor produced separate and different from the two parts separately.

Ah, and semen turns clear. Less milky white. more clear dominate, though this stops when I stop soon breathing technique during sexual stimulation.

Haule mentions "erotic trance" and "glide". During this phase the fluid flowing, often in fairly substantial volume, potentially tablespoons full over several hours, is totally clear and very slick prostatic fluid. The white component (typically a fraction of a teaspoon) only flows when the valves to the testes opens.as one approaches the moment of ejaculatory inevitability. This can flow a bit without actual ejaculation if one hovers in the vicinity. In the female, massaging the base of the external clitoris can produce a milky colored really slippery fluid. The fluids released later inside the vagina are different and one of them is watery and not slippery.

Question. What part of brain deals with feelings and breathing?

That is a complicated question. There is the septum in the limbic system which deals with FFF (Flee, Fight, Fuck) functions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system
The limbic system (or Paleomammalian brain) is a set of brain structures including the hippocampus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus), amygdala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala), anterior thalamic nuclei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_thalamic_nuclei), septum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septum) and limbic cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_cortex), which seemingly support a variety of functions including emotion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion), behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior), long term memory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_term_memory), and olfaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfactory).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system#cite_note-medlineplus-0) The term "limbic" comes from the Latin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin) limbus, for "border" or "edge". Some scientists have suggested that the concept of the limbic system should be abandoned as obsolete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsolete_scientific_theories), as it is grounded more in transient tradition than in facts.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system#cite_note-Ledoux03-1)
The limbic system is the set of kid structures that forms the inner border of the cortex. In an abstract topological sense, each cortical hemisphere can be thought of as a sphere of gray matter, with a hole punched through it in the area where nerve fibers connect it to the subcortical structures of the basal forebrain. The hole is surrounded by a ring of cortical and noncortical areas that combine to make up the limbic system. The cortical components generally have fewer layers than the classical 6-layered neocortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocortex), and are often classified as allocortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allocortex) or archicortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archicortex).
The limbic system includes many structures in the cerebral pre-cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cerebral_pre-cortex&action=edit&redlink=1) and sub-cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sub-cortex&action=edit&redlink=1) of the brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain). The term has been used within psychiatry and neurology, although its exact role and definition have been revised considerably since the term was introduced.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system#cite_note-Conn-2)


The limbic system operates by influencing the endocrine system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_system) and the autonomic nervous system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_nervous_system). It is highly interconnected with the nucleus accumbens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens), the brain's pleasure center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_center), which plays a role in sexual arousal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_arousal) and the "high" derived from certain recreational drugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_drug_use). These responses are heavily modulated by dopaminergic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine) projections from the limbic system. In 1954, Olds and Milner found that rats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat) with metal electrodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrode) implanted into their nucleus accumbens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleus_accumbens) as well as their septal nuclei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septal_nuclei)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbic_system#cite_note-6) repeatedly pressed a lever activating this region, and did so in preference to eating and drinking, eventually dying of exhaustion.
The limbic system is also tightly connected to the prefrontal cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex). Some scientists contend that this connection is related to the pleasure obtained from solving problems. To cure severe emotional disorders, this connection was sometimes surgically severed, a procedure of psychosurgery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosurgery), called a prefrontal lobotomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leukotomy) (this is actually a misnomer). Patients who underwent this procedure often became passive and lacked all motivation.
It appears to be an early part of the mammalian brain.

It appears that while these areas are normally beyond one's control, it is possible to learn to control some aspects meditatively. They are certainly manipulated with sexual arousal in a multitude of ways. In learning to "volunteerize" emotions (again EJ Gold's assessment) we learn to work to some degree with this part of the brain.

As my breathing technique makes the entire Nervouse system rapidly fire. It is intense experience and one I can actually orally Teach and share

There are completely automatic breathing functions controlled by probably 2 areas in the brain. However, conscious breathing changes that, changing CO2 levels, acidity of blood and a number of other things.

Avatar
12-07-2010, 03:51 AM
what I wrote vanished into this air.

so how does one produce a natural sex flush within themselvs?
to me, a strong sex flush won't allow ejaculation, at least not without a fight ;)
but that is a very strong sex flush.
these symptoms I talk about, lasted a month, not hours.

Sharper sight.
Differing smell.
Bliss through Nervouse system firing off "like a chill powerful enough to make you laugh hysterically"
Increased vitality.
Conciouse while dreaming
deep restful sleep " not awakening while asleep"
this was after 3 consecutive sex flushes, with only ejaculation on the first.
After a month I purposely ejaculated, ending these symptoms and returning to normal.
I did this, knowing how, but not fully knowing how.
Ao yea, I've been trying to figure out how to creat consecutive sex flushes.
I have done it here and their, but I havnt mastered it. not at all.

Any tips on how to creat a sex flush naturally?

III
12-07-2010, 07:33 AM
what I wrote vanished into this air.

so how does one produce a natural sex flush within themselvs?
to me, a strong sex flush won't allow ejaculation, at least not without a fight ;)
but that is a very strong sex flush.
these symptoms I talk about, lasted a month, not hours.

Sharper sight.
Differing smell.
Bliss through Nervouse system firing off "like a chill powerful enough to make you laugh hysterically"
Increased vitality.
Conciouse while dreaming
deep restful sleep " not awakening while asleep"
this was after 3 consecutive sex flushes, with only ejaculation on the first.
After a month I purposely ejaculated, ending these symptoms and returning to normal.
I did this, knowing how, but not fully knowing how.
Ao yea, I've been trying to figure out how to creat consecutive sex flushes.
I have done it here and their, but I havnt mastered it. not at all.

Any tips on how to creat a sex flush naturally?


Hi Avaar,

Any tips on how to creat a sex flush naturally?

That is a relatively difficult question. As the Wikipedia article points out it only happens in about 25% of men and then only sometimes. That is my experience of it, sometimes. The biggest connection I can come up with is room temperature. I have it happen more often in warmer rooms, again as the article suggests. I have to say that I really haven't paid that much attention to it. I usually get intense sweating with it so I try to keep the room just barely comfortably warm for my partner without being too warm for me. She dislikes me dripping on her and distracting her. So I try to avoid sex flush. The neurological characteristics happen anyway.

The other characteristics you mention are all neurological or neurotransmitter-neurological related. One of the two brands of 5 star methylb12 sublingual tablets and Methylfolate tablets may very well also cause these same neurological changes in a person who isn't "fully charged" with these nutrients. That may indicate improved oxygenation to the brain and/or various hormones and/or neurotransmitters. Prolonged arousal also can reduce chronic pain for some days as well as generate certain neurotransmitters and hormones.

Vitamin B6 all by itself at about 100mg+ dose will produce a similar flush for a shorter time. Mb12 will produce better quality sleep by producing melatonin among other things. Methylfolate increases dreaming and apparently remembering dreams.

I do take a complete program of vitamins, minerals and certain food supplements daily.

Avatar
12-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Histamine seems important. came up while reading up on sex flush.
Apperently the center which stimulates histamine, would be stimulated by kecheri mudra.
Lol.
Anyways.
I don't know exactly what happens biologically.
I simply have assumptions.
I only know the effects.
I am looking for a cause to an effect.
:D

Avatar
12-07-2010, 09:06 AM
a genuin sex flush.
I don't want to use supplements. " I take full assortment of vitamins as well"

I have recreated the effect a few times thought the years.
Same effects everytime. With fluctuating intensities.

But yes I need to know how to creat a genuin sex flush.
:D
Mmm. Ah!
Weather dosnt matter, your body radiates with inner heat. I have had it happen both in cold and warm weather.
shower does help, but a powerful flush, Esther makes no difference trust me.

Avatar
12-07-2010, 09:08 AM
Look up a picture of a dakini :D
always red, and is actually associated with what I'm talking about.
Their are other depicted the same.
But this one is the most direct and obvious.

III
12-07-2010, 06:40 PM
a genuin sex flush.
I don't want to use supplements. " I take full assortment of vitamins as well"

I have recreated the effect a few times thought the years.
Same effects everytime. With fluctuating intensities.

But yes I need to know how to creat a genuin sex flush.
:D
Mmm. Ah!
Weather dosnt matter, your body radiates with inner heat. I have had it happen both in cold and warm weather.
shower does help, but a powerful flush, Esther makes no difference trust me.


Hi Avaar,

In regard to methylb12, adenosylb12 and methylfolate, about 25-50% or more of any random selection of people in most of the world have chronic mild to severe deficiencies of these substances. This is partly caused by the supplements themselves because most use pseudo vitamins for these, cyanob12 or hydroxyb12 for instance that works for about 1/3 of symptoms for 2/3 of people with 1/3 having no effect at all. Folic acid is not sufficiently utilizable by 50% of people. Mb12, adb12 and methylfolate have no effect at all if a person has sufficient in their body. For the other 50% they can be a real eye opener allowing them to be healthy and have energy and a properly working neurology and lots more for perhaps the first time in their lives. The lack causes up to about 300 symptoms most of which are "non-specific" and ignored by all your doctors as having "no cause".

These are part of the "secret" of the tantric meal.and why it can have a profound effect. 100% 0f vegetarians are deficient to some extent unless they take the real genuine active vitamins instead of the pseudo vitamins in most supplements.


The sex flush is an effect, not a cause. It happens in some people a lot and in others not at all and in others occasionally. There are perhaps 20 or 30 different energies you can cultivate sexually and see which ones for you cause this effect, though again this is merely a side effect. As far as I know nothing mystical or alchemical is dependent upon it, certainly not the other effects you mention. They may be caused by the same energies or combination of energies but are independent of the flush. Sound Dopplers from a moving vehicle but that effect doesn't cause the person in the car to push the horn that is affected by it. If you confuse cause and effect in this process you will go down some long dead ends. Something else to remember. Many effects only happen at one place in a sequence and are not repeated until the sequence is repeated at the next level. It does not pay to get attached to one particular effect since another word for that is STUCK.

I knew a man who got his jollies by always finding and getting sex from a new woman, he liked the thrill. He never learned what comes after the "introduction" and repeated that part over and over, never making it past that into expertise.

Avatar
12-07-2010, 09:56 PM
Ah, well flush is always associated with these other effects I talk of.
I can creat a very low weak flush.
Rarly a greater flush.
it is an effect I'm looking to master.
Their is no release when I do such a thing, and intact, when I am in the condition in which a great flush will happen, I have no lust. it may even be hard to look at a women sexually for complete lack of lust.
It is definatly a combination of things happening, but! They always happen together.
Just as a sandwich, is many componets working together.

Don't worry, this is simply my tantric practise for the body.
it is full transmutation of sexual essence.
Pressure makes diamonds, but transmutation is the short cut to diamond making. :P
So u are saying that a sex flush is dependent on the nutrients we have in our body?

It seems histamines play an important role?
I am sorry, I can only talk about this so for in techniqual terms.
My knowledge falls short when I can into histamines and nutrients n such.
Like I said, I can creat a very very weak flush through breathing while sexually stimulated.
I need a neurologist and generally doctor :D

But! it is like I am learning to master the release of adrenalin.
What I am trying to do happens to everyone " sometimes" and sometimes never.
But it can happen, and in me it was semi purposeful.
I aim to full purposeful, which will allow me to accumulate shakti ( vitality and heat and all chemicals in body seem to simply increase as whole)
but! Like I said. I can only speak so far.

A tantric is dependent on not releasing sexual energy. But not letting lust die.
thus it creats pressure.
That pressure will eventually start to transmute. into higher energy.
tantrics can have sex, but without mastery of the sexual organ, they give away a precious gem.

solomon levi
12-07-2010, 10:40 PM
Interesting stuff gentlemen.



Anyways.
sublimation and transformation of sexual energy/fluid
Is supposed to be a way of attaining Amrita.
Sexual lust is said to be the thing which destroys Amerita, so attaining it threw mastery of the sexual organ seems smart.
immortality is contained within the method applied correctly.
I am not armchair philosopher, I am practionair.
everyone takes the practise too lightly and obscures it.



If by amrita you refer to a sweet fluid (nectar) which drips from the pituitary into
the top-back of your throat, I've experienced this with breathing exercises and locks (bandas);
pretty much the same energy is being sublimated as in sexual methods - chi, prana.
If you tighten the muscles around your sphincter and perineum, squeeze your butt cheeks together,
and "push" a little upward and tighten the lower abdomen and squeeze/push up and tighten the solar
plexus, etc... all while the breath is held, and finally force the breath out, this energy will rise up into
the top of the head with force and alter your consciousness and create a lot of physiological changes.
On occasion when I practice this, the amrita is noticed.

You can try the same thing while sexually aroused. It's very powerful.
Often the flush will come with this.

It can be combined with kundalini visualisations as well.

I was having a little kundalini rising last night and i tried to observe it
since Avaar seemed interested in mapping the path.
For me, it began in the basal chakra area, perhaps not physical, maybe just
beneath the perineum, then definitely went up the coccyx.
I was able to move/expand the energy up to my throat chakra, but I lost mapping it.
It seemed to become more a channel, like the sushumna - again, perhaps not physical
but of/in the etheric body.

This happened while i was driving, so i was cautious about pushing it into my head
because I often lose my body. Like if i was home, I could push the energy into and beyond
my head and my body will fall over (forward - seated in lotus) and i experience these great
vibrations accompanied with loud humming/vibrating sound.
It's like i leave my body but i am still stuck surrounding it.
I can do that at will by performing the breath and the locks I mentioned.
When i have combined that with sexually aroused energy, it is really powerful
and healing/rejuvenating. Once i had a cold and blasted right through it with this practice.
I've also noticed some rejuvenating effects from taking melatonin - like I actually woke up
feeling younger, which seemed incredible to me.

solomon

Avatar
12-07-2010, 11:58 PM
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/product/TK58/
Dakini.
Sex flush!
Lol.

anyways. yes. Energy can move many ways.
I am simply trying to put biology and energy in harmony.

I believe the dyonesus ?
Don't remember how to spell his name, god of wine, is associated with the same things.
maybe my reabsorption rate was just higher?
Hm, the kidneys are filters and play a role with many hormones.
Do try have any absorption properties?
Dunno, won't know what's up untill I do traditional vajroli.

Avatar
12-08-2010, 12:07 AM
Does hyperventilation cause a flush??? -_-

I breath without hyperventilation, and whole body vibrates.
But!
I just purposely hyperventilated " exhale shorter than inhail"
And experienced a very weak small flush.

III
12-09-2010, 01:50 AM
Another quote from Haule - http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet01.html



Sexual Doorway to Alternate Reality. Sustained sexual arousal without orgasmic release results in an excitement that can be felt in the whole body. Hinduism has called this the "rising of kundalini," a sort of energy that is described in the language of esoteric physiology. Centuries of experience with this energy have led to detailed descriptions of a "subtle body" that includes the aura, the chakras, and the pathways that connect them. Apparently sexual arousal may induce an altered state of consciousness that is available to anyone willing to explore it. But, as with meditation and shamanic journeying, the non-ordinary conscious state generated in sustained sexual arousal constitutes an opportunity one must learn how to use. Certainly the vajroli contest implies just this sort of initiation and mastery, as it invites higher and higher levels of arousal without losing control while demanding that each partner use the "subtle body" to enter the other's "gross body" in order to feel her "spasms."


Experience of Divine Union. The slipperiness of Vimalananda's language, as it glides back and forth between the description of a fleshly consort and the traits of a shapeshifting demoness who may sometimes be a goddess, appears to refer to an uncertain line dividing the merely human from the divine. Identification with the gods represents a specific kind of altered state of consciousness characterized by superb control together with extraordinary openness. Intense states of bodily arousal open imaginal capacities that strain toward divine union. In Julius Evola's (1983) language, a "metaphysical leap" is made when the partners shed their individuality and become Shiva and Shakti in eternal love play. Eliade calls it a "rupture of plane." The prerequisite for this attainment is not only a high degree of sexual training, but above all direct, personal experience of the "Absolute" as it is variously named by the different religions. Subjectively, the energy of the subtle body is perceived to be identical with that constituting the universe. Buddhism calls it "emptiness"; Shaivism refers to it as the cosmic vibration of Shakti.


Now let's speak of some of these things in modern terms making use of modern knowledge of physiology and some hypothesizing based on such knowledge and experience. I quite assure you that the experience of vagus nerve orgasm is quite different from spinal nerve orgasm in females. This can be easily demonstrated in all sorts of ways and has been recognized for a long time in the Taoist seven (nine) stages of orgasm even though they don't know anything about the vagus nerve or spinal nerves. This was purely pragmatically acquired knowledge and is described quite well. The male vagus nerve orgasm is more rarely experienced and is more difficult to induce but it too is distinctly experientially different.

Centuries of experience with this energy have led to detailed descriptions of a "subtle body" that includes the aura, the chakras, and the pathways that connect them. Apparently sexual arousal may induce an altered state of consciousness that is available to anyone willing to explore it. But, as with meditation and shamanic journeying, the non-ordinary conscious state generated in sustained sexual arousal constitutes an opportunity one must learn how to use. Certainly the vajroli contest implies just this sort of initiation and mastery, as it invites higher and higher levels of arousal without losing control while demanding that each partner use the "subtle body" to enter the other's "gross body" in order to feel her "spasms."

This "subtle body" and the energy system is at the heart of this whole thing. This altered state of consciousness can be shared. As both partners come into each other more and more it can literally reach the level of feeling what one's partner feels. I don't need my partner to tell me what is affecting her. I can feel it. Now some things I feel more than others or differently. Part of the problem is overcoming the interpretation of different feelings, of being able to map it to one's own physiology. When I am stimulating her for certain energies I feel them and have no physical structure with which I am familiar to map them to. That is an odd sort of feeling but with practice it gets much easier and much more intense, presumably as the neurons grow in response to practicing these things.

Most people are in way too much hurry with sex to experience much of it. They shut off most of it right from the start. Let's take a look sensitivity of penis and clitoris. The more intense the stimulus the faster the sensitivity fades away, suddenly returning with orgasm and suddenly becoming painfully intense. When done differently, the whole process changes. Very light and slow stimulus increases the sensitivity. We are talking about increasing EROTIC energies, which cause the persons subtle body to open up more and be more receptive. I often start with a whole body sensual stroking with feathers. This starts the energetic opening. Then at least a light massage over the whole body and ending with a yoni massage. That is NOT stroking the skin for stimulation. It is pressure and such on the muscles and other underlying structures, often releasing trigger points that most massage therapists literally won't touch. This massage can often cause intense release of trauma, especially sexually linked trauma. I have been on the receiving end of such massage and also experienced trauma release and recovery of memories of abuse. All during the massage, the person is more and more opening their subtle body and I am joining in that sharing too.

to be continued...

Avatar
12-09-2010, 02:15 AM
Vimalanda and author Avalon are my favorites so far concerning tantra.

Tantra has many more sexual practices, mine can be done without a women.

One must learn the true nature of ego.
Ego is a mirror the personality a reflection.
The reflection changes the mirror does not.
The mirror self identifys withthe reflection, and forget it was a mirror.
The story of narssisus.
In reflecting the moon, the lake forgot itself and thought it was the moon.

The play of mirror and reflection, the play of self identification, is the play of shiva and shakti.
Avishkara is self identifying with the qualitys and specta of somthing els, to forget yourself and become something els.
almost like acting, but it is a becoming.
feel don't think ~Bruce lee

the tantric sex in which I self identify with shiva and her shakti, and then I self identify with her, and her me, is a practise I have not don't yet.
some preform tantra with ejaculation, some do all this, without ejaculation. As sexual fluid is the vital essence, it contains your life force, like a coagulation of your spirit.
their is also the self identification with a diety, till your subtle body takes on the form of said diety it is said. Then the projection of said subtle body so that the diety can be perceived. either that or the projection of diety through yourself, or both. I am not skilled in that area so I can't comment passed pure intellectual knowledge.
maybe it is just anothe form of Avishkara? Or maybe it truly is the projection.
Tantra has alot to do with feeling, and emotional controlled.
He who controls emotions controls feelings, and he who controls these has complete control over mind and body.
for hunger, sleep, lust, desier, lethargy, these are all feelings and emotions ;) hehe a true tantric with this complete control is a seriouse energy to be reconed with.

Avatar
12-10-2010, 01:38 AM
Hyperventilation causes a sex flush.
Hyperventilation is properly done through mimicking oxygen hunger.
Short exhail long inhail.
Knowing this hyperventilation can be done at even a resting breathing rate.

hyperventilation done properly. may creat a condition, in which a sex flush can happen, without being combined with active hyperventilation.

apparently my breathing is hyperventilation at a normal breathing rate.
but I havnt mimicked oxygen hunger untill now.

When I do mimick it, heat is generated. Note, I use a normal breathing rate, and breath threw the nose calmly.
ejaculation negates the effects of a sex flush, or lessons it.
I personally have never passed out through my breathing.
light headedness has not occurred in 5 years.

One should stop if feeling actual oxygen hunger.
normally I never feel this, but in mimicking oxygen hunger their is a possibility.
Hopefully the slow breathing will negate it.
I have also never blacked out.
mimicking oxygen hunger is almost the opposite to what I do, instead of coldness heat is produced.

now the important part, what happens during a sex flush.
What happens to histamine and mast cells during a sex flush?

I created a weak sex flush earlier. Head,neck,full chest area, shoulders, and upper arms all red. Partial upper back.
The redness faded quickly, meaning it was a weak sex flush. As well redness was in form of spottedness and partial solids.
With a great sex flush comes solid redness, deep color, and it takes longer to fade away.
ah and I do smoke cigarets.

Our definments of what things are and aren't are indoctrinated, in my eyes proper controlled hyperventilation can have many benefits.
full Nervouse system stimulation dosnt seem negative to me.
As well, such a powerful thing can have negative effects if not treated right, I am sure of that, as is with all things.
further experimentation in the application department is needed before I can say this is what I am looking for, but it looks promising.

Any comments for you physiological knowledgeable people is greatly welcomed!
:D

I am simply blind traveler who knows were he is trying to go, and is simply feeling the path.
A short dark cave is hard to find your way through by using simple touch, but feel the walls and guid yourself through, with persistence you will find the light at the end of the tunnel :D

III
12-10-2010, 06:22 PM
I am including this here as well as where originally posted as it is a critical part of what I was going to post here in giving a modern explanation of sex in alchemy. Remember, I don't claim that what I am teaching would pass muster as any kind of orthodoxy in Tantric practices. However, also remember that Tantra is an Alchemical system from way back. The speaking of tantras, the channeled divine dyadic conversations between Shiva and Shakti on these matters is an important part of Tantra. During these tantra talks all sorts of information becomes available. Further all this is used in weaving the tapestry of ones entire eternal life. For me the physical practice is perhaps as much as 10% of total time spent, probably much less most of the time. We actively engage in digging out blocks and fears, reprogramming ourselves not to thrown into sleep over and over. We do this sitting and talking and consciously intermingling our subtle bodies. This can even be done talking over the phone or in meditation a continent away.


The real starting point is WAKE UP! and learn to see ones self in the mirror of divinity.


Hi Avaar,

Let's start with the simplest item.

as well, immortality. I don't think their is a reason why it cannot happen.

Let's take accident only mortality tables into consideration. Death by accident alone gives a life expectancy of about 1000 years. Larry Niven has explored this somewhat in his Known Universe stories. While a thousand or 10,000 years is a long time, it is no where near immortal. Let's go to the Mayan "age of true man" lasting 143 nonillion (after octillion) years. This is far longer than the physical existence of the sun or universe and ignored by most because the 4 billion year life of our planet makes it seem ridiculous. And yet, from an Eternal life point of view, quite possible. Mel Brooks and Carl Riener did the 2000 year old man as comedy. I don't think you will find any other 2000 year old man, or even 1000, or even 200. Bodies age and die. Even if they didn't age, they die of something. Find me an actual immortal human and I would have to reconsider. There are lots of reasons there are no immortal humans, amoebas and paramecium sure, but in this case, they are clones of the original. And they are strictly limited to the life of the earth and no single actual cell survives that long, just the clones of the clones of the clones of the clones... I wouldn't bet the bank on achieving immortality, of anybody achieving it.


what is the reason we die?
More Likley, what is the reason we age?
As death and aging are different.

There are endless reasons we die. What does death mean? Are you the body? Bodies die. One might say that the purpose of Alchemy is to evolve an "eternal soul". I remember dying; lot's of times. And every time I've died in quite a while, I eventually end up right back here in a variation of this life. It's GROUNDHOG DAY all over again. I remember dying in all sorts of car wrecks despite having a near perfect driving record in this surviving life. And these deaths have happened at all sorts of ages. It appears that part of the challenge is to learn to live the full lifespan of the body without premature death. There are lots of reasons we age. First there are simple biological facts like telemeres which when exhausted allow the cells to undergo faulty repair. There are nutritional and other problems. But let's look at metaphysical reasons. In my experience and opinion, people close off more and more possibilities of life through fears and blocks until they have no options left for continuing.

Somehow people think that there is only one ideal life for them and somehow they will spend eternity living that one perfect life with no changes. I would say that is terminally boring. How would you like to spend 100 billion years living exactly the same life over and over with no differences? How about 143,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of the identical life in the age of true man alone? Having memory of everything the same and never changing would be cruel. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Death allows one to start over with a fresh body.

as far as I know, negative pressure is probly needed to suck up fluid.

I would be inclined to think the same thing. And as demonstrated air leaks in before any significant negative pressure could occur, certainly before any liquid could be forcibly extracted and sucked up much less tissue ruptured and bleeding. Let's be real.

how about we shift to the transmutation of sexual fluid/energy into higher energy.

This whole explanation of "transmutation of sexual fluids/energy" came about based on a questionable set of assumptions, a lack of biological knowledge, desperation to explain how a despised set of activities could lead to incredible spiritual functioning and so much more. As EJ Gold has described it as "The normal person eats gold and converts it to shit. The alchemist eats shit and shits gold".

There are enough potent and valuable hormones and nutrients able to be directly absorbed through the mucous membranes from the fluids in the NORMAL course of things, including items that would be perceived as energy or energizing, and improve mood to account for the "absorbing and transmuting" hypothesis. The absorption is time based, the longer that the coupling lasts, the more contents of the fluids are absorbed. What transmutes are the persons "understanding" of the energies. The merging of the two subtle bodies, the energies of the two persons, allows certain cooperative activities to take place in the non-physical. If a person is not trained and practiced in opening up to these energies and blocks them instead, nothing much happens, sex as usual. When the two energies merge to the necessary extent at a high enough energy and including all the needed "frequencies", something happens, a synthesis. A third energy is synthesized, the "modem" frequency to/of the divine. I have from time to time called it "lasing", like a laser. Now if you are calling the synthesis, the resonance, transmutation I can see that. However, it is the creation of something different from the combination of the two energies, not a changing of those energies. It is the partners themselves who undergo transmutation.

Vajroli is a topic we could talk about all day, but I would bet ten dollars none have practised it as I havnt yet. This makes us armchair philosophers on the subject. No practical application.

Speak for yourself. You would loose your bet. You may be an armchair philosopher, I'm not. The reason I have a different explanation, a transmuted explanation, is that I have participated in it, experienced it and am attempting a pragmatic explanation consistent as possible with scientific biological knowledge. Science doesn't agree about the sharing of subtle bodies, of energies, yet. However, they have found a group of neurons that are designed to reflect the other person's emotional state and so it might be said that the empathic state is merely reflection of the other person using those neurons. And as we use those neurons, more of them grow and strengthen the experience. Perhaps this is the real transmutation. That would lead to a resonance of similar circuits hypothesis. I don't really care what the explanations are as those will change over and over as the person gains experience, knowledge and understanding.


http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet01.html - The Real and the Unreal in Sex and Spirituality
It is one thing to imagine that a woman can gain sufficient control over her vaginal muscles as to "milk" her consort's penis.

This is easy to describe with modern scientific knowledge. For now I'll just describe the ending state along with a few prerequisites. First assume that both partners have been practicing their Kegal exercises strengthening the PC and related muscles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise
Explanation

The aim of Kegel exercises is to improve muscle tone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_tone) by strengthening the pubococcygeus muscles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pubococcygeus_muscle) of the pelvic floor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_floor). Kegel is a popular prescribed exercise for pregnant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnant) women to prepare the pelvic floor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_floor) for physiological stresses of the later stages of pregnancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy) and vaginal childbirth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth). Kegel exercises are said to be good for treating vaginal prolapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_prolapse)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-0) and preventing uterine prolapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_prolapse)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-1) in women and for treating prostate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate) pain and swelling resulting from benign prostatic hyperplasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_prostatic_hyperplasia)prostatitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostatitis) in men. Kegel exercises may be beneficial in treating urinary incontinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_incontinence) in both men and women.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-2) Kegel exercises may also increase sexual gratification and aid in reducing premature ejaculation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation).

Another prerequisite is sufficient physical conditioning to be able to maintain a mix of vigor, some slow and some hard and fast, activities for 1-4 hours. In this game an hour is a real quickie. If your body can't stand up to the strain it won't work. Running out of energy, literally physically exhausted, puts a stop to everything. This is also where the tantric meal can make a huge difference. The body's mitochondria run on adenosylb12 with l-carnitine fumarate as an assisting agent by transporting the fats into the cells and mitochondria for the Krebs cycle (ascorbic acid cycle). Omega3 fishoils influences nerve cell membrane permiability. Methylb12 wakes up the nervous system including brain. The tantric meal including beef and fish supplies methylb12, adnosylb12, carnitine, omega3 oils and high quality protein. Beef and fish is not "contamination" but rather contains vital nutrients important for the actual proper functioning of the body. My aerobic capacity literally doubled overnight when I added l-carnitine fumarate to my supplements and that was after my energy level had quadrupled with the addition of adenosylb12.

OK, so now here you are in a crescendo of sexual arousal, going back and forth, leapfrog style with first one partner pushing it to the limit then the other building upon that. First one specific energy than another. There are positions in which a man virtually can't get the required specific stimulation to trigger an orgasm or ejaculation, but rather stimulus that increases arousal. There are in the man, just as the woman, multiple different energies that can be aroused in turn to keep the energies building to incredibly intense levels.So the g-spot is massaged slowly and intensely by the corona of the penis well past normal toleration of intensity. Then the massaging is switched to the deep cervical edge vagus nerve trigger point and that is massaged, with intensity but almost no movement, providing no skin stimulation to the penis but because of position the males vagus nerve trigger is. When both are feeling each other, not just "spasms" as the one quote says, but far far more, and in such a way so that the energies are now rising in concert, fully coupled, is when the final phase can happen.

Then the stimulation is focused towards the male vagus nerve arousal. This feels quite different than the spinal nerve trigger and is considerably more easily controllable. At this point the "outcome" is determined by who gets triggered into the vagus nerve orgasm first and what is done then. In the "female milking every drop" out of the male it isn't a matter of vaginal control at all. The vaginal muscles will be rippling at the same speed as the ejaculatory pulses. However, first the male gets triggered into the edge of vagus nerve orgasmic inevitability. This is held there in the rapidly ascending energy carrying the female upwards strongly until the female is uncontrollably triggered into her vagus nerve orgasm. The female partner moving very little, but in time with the muscle rippling starts to increase intensity on the male and then the vagus nerve orgasm starts building and traveling upwards. Finally the female partner stimulates the male to start the ejaculation but keeps the movement slow and timed with the muscle contractions. If this is done just right the male orgasm goes on and on and on and the ejaculatory phase keeps going and building for a fair number of minutes rather than the "normal" 10 or 15 seconds. Keeping it slow, and never having dulled the sensation to the head and frenulum with excessive stimulation there is no rebound to hypersensitive stopping things. Instead it is like the ejaculation is triggered over and over, not stopping until somebody runs out of steam, with both consciously together cooperating and riding the crescendo of the joint vagus nerve orgasm up and up. In the female this can be kept going for well over an hour by switching areas of stimulation every few minutes internally and including the external clitoris as well. It is during this mutual feedback that the joint energy "lases" and much mystical experience and shamanic voyaging occurs and may last some hours. It is nothing like ordinary sex. If the person is not adequately purified and prepared "freakouts" may occur when uncleared blocks and fears are hit with very high energy. Lots and lots of fluids are produced in this process by both male and female. Now others may describe it differently.

I don't consider this a contest as it takes skill and full cooperation to do for mutual alchemical benefit. It isn't easy and requires considerable practice. It is quite ecstatic and goes indescribably past ordinary orgasm so much so that it is quite different qualitatively. The intensity of the light can be quite extreme during this and the bodies continue on quite automatically as the joined minds go voyaging together. It is extraordinarily wondrous and has nothing at all to do with "sucking" up any fluids in any unusual ways whether some people have somehow trained themselves to do so or not and is in no way exploitive.
.
I'm not trying to hide behind ambiguities, legalities, euphemisms, exaggerations and vagueness. There is a lot more too it but since this came up here I took the opportunity to give a modern physiology description of this thing you appear intent to understand..

Good luck in your learning.

solomon levi
12-10-2010, 06:35 PM
On hyperventilation -
reminds me of Castaneda - when Don Juan would strike him on the back between the shoulder blades
to enter heightened awareness. Supposedly he was striking the assemblage point and not the back.
But CC talking to La Gorda realized that it was the gasping for air after the blow that brought him to
heightened awareness.

solomon levi
12-10-2010, 06:45 PM
"how about we shift to the transmutation of sexual fluid/energy into higher energy.

This whole explanation of "transmutation of sexual fluids/energy" came about based on a questionable set of assumptions, a lack of biological knowledge, desperation to explain how a despised set of activities could lead to incredible spiritual functioning and so much more. As EJ Gold has described it as "The normal person eats gold and converts it to shit. The alchemist eats shit and shits gold".

There are enough potent and valuable hormones and nutrients able to be directly absorbed through the mucous membranes from the fluids in the NORMAL course of things, including items that would be perceived as energy or energizing, and improve mood to account for the "absorbing and transmuting" hypothesis."

Perhaps I misunderstand, but i disagree if you disagree with transmutation.
Alchemy and life evolve by circulation/self-awareness which produces a "higher" energy than it was before.

III
12-10-2010, 07:00 PM
Perhaps I misunderstand, but i disagree if you disagree with transmutation.
Alchemy and life evolve by circulation/self-awareness which produces a "higher" energy than it was before.

Hi Solomon,

I think that this is one of those semantic things. Let me clarify. It is our very self that is changed, transmuted as it were, by these processes. I don't believe that the fluids themselves are changed except as the vital substances are absorbed from them, and that can include energy (I have had some experiences with embedded energies in artifacts) and performing their function in our bodies.. As we are changed, by the catalyst effect of the synthesized energy, that third energy that results from the combining of the energies of the two becoming one. This too is fractal in nature as the next time one does this it is from the modified being and modified energy all combining into a new synthesis "third energy" that then changes each of us yet again. The output feeds the input. There is a feedback loop at the heart of the fractal which changes with each pass through the loop. It is our being that is transmuted. This energy transfer is often called shaktipat. Shaktipat can be done with or without sex. Shaktipat is catalytic and transforming.

solomon levi
12-10-2010, 07:23 PM
Hi III.
I think I can relate.
I know that our body, or our cells, can become addicted to certain "foods" or chemicals
when our minds are addicted to certain emotions; and then the cell will lose the receptor sites for
anything other than this addicted substance. In that sense it can be argued that "nutrition" is available
but the body has been trained not to receive it.
So I can see the same applying to the numerous hormones and enzymes that are extracted from the ductless glands
towards semen and a new life.

The circulation I am aware of is what i have described - pranayama which moves energy from the base of the
spine to the head, and then it falls and is raised again. Perhaps something of this energy is sublimated to make
our bodies work differently or more efficiently. Certainly one encounters areas where the energy is blocked and
they must be opened (re-opened), not unlike the addicted cell, or the habitually formed neuronet.

Avatar
12-11-2010, 01:00 PM
We do change everytime!
of corse we change with every thought.
but on a phycho-physiological level, we use the body to change the mind via the spirit or force, energy, same difference.

it is said you pass out in hyperventalation due to lack of oxygen,
What reason would you not pass out during hyperventalation?
If any of you have extra insight I would appreciate it.

as well any in depth info on the nature of a sex flush and it's associations.
I'm just doing my hw :D

Avatar
12-11-2010, 01:09 PM
As well, with opening blockages.
feeling.
Cit/chit is feeling conciousness as I understand it.
This conciousness is supposed to pervade all.
the physical world would then be feeling with great tension and thus is heavy.
The more subtle worlds are lighter, and are relaxed.
now. through the body, personally, I know what areas of my body are tense and relaxed on an internal level.
Much tension is held in the muscles,and soft spots of the spine.
When I first started opening blockages, I was coming from a very tense state, my whole spine re adjusted itself, and shocked me each time, rising slowly as it did.
Is pop/shock on lower spine, then above that would pop/shock/re-adjust.
This was caused by the yogic breathing technique.
I have opened almost all blockages through feeling spots of tension, and releasing the tension, when tension is released the mind enters and can feel that spot easily, it is also lighter, and absent of tension.
I have a few blocks in the right side of my body still, all are gone on left side.
release the tensions of feeling conciouse and the mind will be freed.

Albion
12-12-2010, 03:35 PM
William Shakespeare, Sonnett 129, on "La petite mort"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort :


The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoy'd no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad:
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.

All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

Albion
12-12-2010, 05:41 PM
James/Wingmakers on the subject of energy circulation, excerpted from Project Camelot Interview With James[ http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html ]:


Question 23 from Project Camelot: In what way, is awareness of oneself as a Sovereign Integral any different from the self-realization attained through meditation and awakening of kundalini? And, considering the breathing technique you are referencing in your material, is this not the same as any other technique which stimulates the rise of kundalini, linking of the chakras and eventually, enlightenment?

Answer 23 from James: As you may have already surmised from my previous answers, the Sovereign Integral is the re-conceptualized expression of the human soul during the era of transparency and expansion. This era will be anchored in the experience of the Grand Portal, which is the consciousness of First Source – Sovereign Integrals unified and self aware – living upon Earth. This is the era whose shoreline we have just touched, and those tools, techniques, mental models, and methods of the previous age, well, they are not relevant, just as the abacus is not relevant in the age of computers.

Yes, I’m aware that I’m being very direct here, but it is time to be direct and truthful without over care to consequences and how people may respond. Look at it this way, and I am not picking on Eastern spirituality, but you asked the question about kundalini and so I’ll respond accordingly, but what I am saying applies to all of the traditional methods and mental models regardless of their cultural roots.

Kundalini is a complex system of energy manipulation within the human instrument culminating in enlightenment of the mind. It is a system of ascension where a teacher who knows how to activate the kundalini helps the student orchestrate their chakra or energy system. Well, what is energy? In the dimensions of the Sovereign Integral there is no energy. There is no fluctuation of energy. There is no yin-yang of energy. Energy is a concept of the mind. So those who spend endless hours working with energy, where has it taken you?

Energy exists in the HMS [Human Mind System]. It is real in the physical world. It is indisputably a part of the human instrument, and yet, the Sovereign Integral is constant, aware, awake, observant, alive, infinite, and, as odd as it may seem, it is not energy. It is not of energy. It does not require energy. It is not existent because of energy. Before there was energy there was the Sovereign Integral. Before there was a Human Mind System, there was the Sovereign Integral.

You might say, “Okay, but doesn’t the practice of kundalini (or any other legitimate ascension practice) accelerate my ability to understand the Sovereign Integral?” And my answer would be a qualified, “yes,” but only to the degree you are willing to release what you have learned and establish a new First Point that doesn’t include separation or complexity. Once you have invested yourself in a proficiency rank, accrued your expertise, are proceeding to become a teacher, you are in danger of being attached to the irrelevant and obsolete, and these can become like vines that cling to you and constrict your flexibility of movement to the new era in which we now move and have Our Being.

Let me be clear, for those who believe that a master can pronounce special words to them, as in the case of Deeksha (related to kundalini), and by these very words, cause them to be magnetically drawn to enlightenment, they are deluded. If someone believes they are enlightened by reading any book, they are deluded. If someone believes they can repeat a mantra and they are enlightened, they are deluded.

I am not trying to be confrontational here, but the simple facts are that billions of people on this planet are deluded in their practice of spirituality, the occult, religion, and yes, even science. They practice what they believe will move them closer to truth, when they themselves are truth, and their practice only creates thicker walls between awareness and truth. The era of transparency and expansion is all about bringing walls down. It is not about the absorption of more knowledge and information.

Quantum Pause is not related to kundalini or the belief system that surrounds it. In homage to Gertrude Stein, one could say that a breath technique, is a breath technique, is a breath technique, but that has not been my experience. While Quantum Pause is indeed a breath technique at its core, it is also a method to leave the human instrument and experience the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness. This is because breath is the highway or portal out of the human instrument, if done with the appropriate First Point.

Remember that the astral and mind domains are within the human instrument, so we are not interested in journeying there since they remain inside the Human Mind System, and are thus illusory and misleading. Quantum Pause is a method or process of disentangling from the Human Mind System, realizing that your self-definitions and identifications with culture, family, religion, spirituality, material possessions, money, and purpose, have been programmed and are not really who you are.

This is a difficult path for many people to accept, but this is what Quantum Pause is designed to achieve. It is the breath, enabled through Nature, that is life-giving to the human instrument, and it is the human instrument that is life-giving to the Sovereign Integral within the manifested physical reality of Earth. Thus, breath is the link, and Quantum Pause enables this link to be nurtured, expanded, strengthened, and made stable.

© 2008, WingMakers LLC, Some Rights Reserved Creative Commons License

Albion
12-12-2010, 06:26 PM
James/Wingmakers on “the minutia of the esoteric” excerpted from Conscious Media Network Interview With James [ http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/word/wingmaker.pdf ]:


James - Answer 1: Much of the knowledge that is being processed for mass consumption, whether it comes through facilitated films, books, artworks, websites, or scientific discoveries, is centered on the older paradigms of the esoteric knowledge, and tends to be about the mental powers, which are presumed to be more essential and practical than the powers of the heart or emotional field.

It is the tenet of these “secret and enlightened ideals” that the mind, if properly activated, using certain principles, technologies, or rituals, will invoke the higher knowledge, attracting it to the aspirant and filling them with the comprehension of how to be God. Conspicuously missing from this equation of Godhood is behavioral intelligence.

Indeed, behavioral intelligence is the equation, and its parts are clothed in words like Appreciation, Compassion, Humility, Forgiveness, Understanding, and Valor. The ancient knowledge, or perennial wisdom, as it is sometimes called, is not a set of secrets to guard, but rather an expression of emotions that anyone can apply in their everyday life.

To be sure, this simplicity seems too easy intellectually, and too hard to practice behaviorally, or so it is believed. The pivot of true power exists in the expression of behavioral intelligence flowing from the heart and supported by the mind. And it is from this base, settled in the physical center or heart of the individual, where one’s connection to the vibration of equality lives, and it is this vibration that powers all things, referred to as God (and a hundred other names) by the ancient knowledge.

With that said, the “secrets” of America’s forefathers, if they do not include as their foundation, behavioral intelligence, are merely secrets of the mind, and they hold no particular power in the fields of vibration that really matter. They may assist the ambitions of people. They may attract success and glamour as determined by a culture of greed. However, as secrets go, they live in the sphere of the mind and have little resonance with the heart, or even the pivot points of human ascension.

What is often referred to as “the Path to Enlightenment,” is an arcane mash-up of rituals, ceremony, mantras, and other external trappings that predispose the practitioner to receive the higher knowledge of enlightenment. But the higher knowledge isn’t contained in knowledge; it’s contained in the expressions of the higher virtues of the heart, and in order to express these virtues independently of external conditions, it requires practice, vigilance, forgiveness, and a heart that is open, vulnerable, simple, and aware of itself as the true “seat of consciousness.”

This is the anti-knowledge, which is the release of the arcane, and the unlearning of the learned. It is the expression of the simple heart virtues, instead of the mind’s penchant for seeking out the minutia of the esoteric.

The mind is the outgrowth of the ego-personality, and in the cultural context of modern life, it is magnetically attracted to the states of glamour, success, popularity, and power. The mind—as ingrained by our three-dimensional world—is phenomenalistic, which is to say it needs to see the rule of cause and effect. In other words, the mind looks at life and thinks: if I do this, my actions lead to that. So the elite have found methods to obtain certain effects from certain causes, which lead to a sense of creation, a sense of power, a sense of sovereignty. This knowledge is presumed to be withheld from man by the elite, as if it is too dangerous in the hands of the common person who might not have control of their actions.

This is not to say that America’s forefathers were exclusively centered in the realm of the mind, but it was, and is, the dominant paradigm of the esoteric knowledge. The mind has been held in higher esteem by virtually all of the religious, spiritual, and scientific elite, and this is because the heart is perceived as soft, feminine, weak, and utterly reactive. The development of this perception was all part of the cloaking or diminishment of humanity’s true empowerment (a subject unto itself).

The heart possesses an uncommon intelligence, resilience, and ability to flow and adapt. I’m not talking about the sentimental heart; the heart that is spoken of in our culture as being sensitive, sentimental, sympathetic, caring, and needful. The heart of empowerment is the point of consciousness within the individual where the vibration of equality is lit by the Creator—it is the original awareness. It is the place where the interface between individuality and Oneness occurs.

The heart of enlightenment is perfectly sober and clear-eyed. It is empowered, and it is capable of unending compassion and love. It cannot be depleted unless the individual turns it off. The sentimental heart, the heart of indulgence and over-caring is unrelated to the heart of empowerment, and it is critical to make this distinction.

There are those who say if you understand all of the conspiratorial factors in the world; if you have knowledge of the ancient mysteries; if you fathom the depths of physics and the heights of cosmology, then you are a person of superior knowledge, perhaps even a person who is self-realized. But if this realization is not earned by deeds of the virtuous heart, then the realization will be hollow and short-lived. This condition is what fuels the search for the esoteric, and why the mystery schools, mysticism, arcane knowledge, and similar paths evolve into organizations like the Freemasons. The search is never-ending because the stratification of knowledge is tantalizingly always out of reach, or protected from the profane.

© Conscious Media Network Inc.

III
12-14-2010, 09:36 PM
Hi Albion,

I went to the interview and read it all along with the glossary on the site and some of the site materials. That gave me enough context within itself that I was able to understand it. So whats new? These writings appear to indicate a recent "channeling" or at least accessing of the information and is a more modern statement of the situation without being bogged down in accumulated mysterious ritual and practice etc. In Alchemy with the Alchemical marriage being practiced, the soul of the being modified by bringing in LOVE the "heart" to equality with the "mind" and the synthesis of the two; the synthesis of "knowledge" and "understanding" creating "Wisdom".

The Gnostics considered Christ to be "the messenger from outside". In the terms of the interview, from the other side of the "great portal" or possibly put another way, from the other side of the "speed of light" barrier" or from outside this "incubator" as I might put it..

And of course within Alchemy, adding on the functionality of quite a few more dimensions.

And of course those coming back through the "Great Portal" via great compassion to help pass on the liberation which are not mentioned at all in the interview maybe because all the fear stories are not about them as are about the Masons and Illuminati, are the Bodhisattva.

The teachings always have to change with the times. Spiritual knowledge/understanding/wisdom advances.

Even if my mapping here may be imperfect, I know from whence this comes, and while I might say it a bit differently with somewhat different emphasis, all of what I have read so far of this site is "obvious" and readily available to all that look.

I think that the naming conventions might be done better and description of some of the objects might have been done better.

Interesting site. It's good to see others aware of the changes that this creation is undergoing.

Avatar
12-14-2010, 10:21 PM
nothing is illusionary ;) all is real, some things viel.

the nature of ego is a changeless mirror. the personality is the changing reflection.
our personality is what we self identify with.
Realize this, and begin the game of creating and destroying yourself, without ever changing yourself.
Ego=kundalini

Now!!
you talk about disentangling from the human mind system.
It is easy, feel don't think.
thoughts are the fruit of what we feel.

A person realizes who they are, and feels whole, when they apply " feel don't thing"
This is all feeling, awarness of feeling the body, emotions are just a concentrated center of the body.

everyone wants to leave the body behind, and leave the Physical world behind. but this is the base building block, and unless you truly KNOW of another place you can go, well haha.

many people heard of an enlightened sage, when they found him he said he knew NOTHING.

A man went to ask a tantric to teach him, the tantric said go fuck yourself!!

the mysterious of old are simply putrified sciences.
you say mantra is gibberish? well so is a microwave to an unknowledgable person.
Most if not all esoteric practices were meant to cause internal change.

Bahkti, the way of the heart, is said to be the strongest, and is the strongest path, and also the hardest to master.
Feel don't think!!

aghora at the left hand of god
Aghora kundalini
Aghora karma
books^
Shakta shakti by author Avalon.

The ego is kundalini.
Because all we see is the subjective world.
to destroy the subjective perception is to KNOW NOTHING!!!

I say blue bunny, blue, it's associations with color, bunny and it's association, the meanings behind it. Etc, all indoctrinated perceptions, beliefs, meanins.

To destroy the subjective perception/universe.
Is to know nothing.
Of corse, I cannot truly attest to what this state is like. as I am not living in the midst of it.so I play with the subjective perception ;)
Knowing the nature of changing and changeless I dance.

III
01-03-2011, 12:25 AM
I would suggest a couple of interesting short stories if you haven't read them, "-- All You Zombies--" and By His Bootstraps; both by RAH. In effect both are stories of the person's life dependent upon the fractal nature of life.

http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/%7Emfedder/zombies.html) All you zombies, a SHORT read
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.pdf (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Epot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.pdf) - By his bootstraps, another classic time travel tale

I KNOW where I came from.

Don't ever loose sight that whatever else one may think Alchemy is, it is potentially a way to enlightenment. Have fun. Happy new year or happy old year or happy whatever year.

III
01-04-2011, 07:06 PM
In a modern description, Tantric sex and sexual alchemies are all about learning a skill set. There are exercises done to learn the skill sets involved.The exercises themselves are NOT the object desired. I used to teach skiing. The students did lot's of various exercises to learn certain skills and as soon as those skills learned, the exercises are dropped as they go on to the next skill learning exercise. Just as is illustrated in THE SERPENT AND THE RAINBOW there are a lot of irrelevancies that are included for all sorts of reasons, most long forgotten. There are changes in understandoing of language and cultural assumptions and taboos. There are a lot of ridiculous things that have accumulated through the centuries and even millennia. Many students have mindlessly practiced exercises designed in certain ways many centuries ago to appear a certain way within the cultural milieu of the period. Many of these things still are taught despite their reason having vanished 1000 years ago or whatever., The cultural taboos are quite different here and now. The blocks a person has NOW are typically more complicated than those of a simpler culture long vanished.

I am not subject to torture and murder by the Inquisition and have no reason to play to that no longer existent audience. The same goes for the Roman Empire, both before "Holy" was added and after or any other ancient authorities and hazards. We have our own problems here and now and the teachings need to deal with them. The eternal world has evolved too. So shooting for the target of 3000 years ago seems rather ludicrous to me. My advice is to update ones understandings to deal with things as they are today while realizing that these too will change. Being burned at the stake is no fun but is not a likely outcome today.

Andro
01-04-2011, 07:55 PM
I am not subject to torture and murder by the Inquisition and have no reason to play to that no longer existent audience.

The below documented execution of two Iranian gay teens took place in 2005.
They WERE subject to torture and murder, by the Iranian Inquisition. Just for being gay.
And there was a quite large (and still very existent) audience, attending that execution.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/irangay_teens.jpg

(SOURCE) (http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/07/iran_executes_2.html)

III
01-04-2011, 08:42 PM
The below documented execution of two Iranian gay teens took place in 2005.
They WERE subject to torture and murder, by the Iranian Inquisition. Just for being gay.
And there was a quite large (and still very existent) audience, attending that execution.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/irangay_teens.jpg

(SOURCE) (http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/07/iran_executes_2.html)


Hi Androgynus,

Very sad to see such barbarism still extant. I know it exists in some countries. I am extremely glad that I am not subject to such. In such a country one has to be entirely underground. Now if a religious dictatorship takes over the USA we will be in for some centuries of hell on earth here to. Our freedom is a very fragile item that is being encroached upon regularly. I have my doubts that our constitutional freedoms will last out my lifetime.

Albion
01-05-2011, 12:15 AM
I would suggest a couple of interesting short stories if you haven't read them, "-- All You Zombies--" and By His Bootstraps; both by RAH. In effect both are stories of the person's life dependent upon the fractal nature of life.

http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html (http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/%7Emfedder/zombies.html) All you zombies, a SHORT read
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.pdf (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Epot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.pdf) - By his bootstraps, another classic time travel tale

I KNOW where I came from.

Don't ever loose sight that whatever else one may think Alchemy is, it is potentially a way to enlightenment. Have fun. Happy new year or happy old year or happy whatever year.

Thanks for the feedback on the Wingmakers material.

And thanks for the two stories.

The second one, "By His Bootstraps," reminds me of the movie "Timecrimes."

http://www.amazon.com/Timecrimes-Karra-Elejalde/dp/B001FOPOD8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1294186090&sr=1-1

[The cover creates the impression it is a horror movie - which it isn't.]

And I realize you are not simply talking about "time-travel" here.

III
01-06-2011, 06:49 AM
Thanks for the feedback on the Wingmakers material.

And thanks for the two stories.

The second one, "By His Bootstraps," reminds me of the movie "Timecrimes."

http://www.amazon.com/Timecrimes-Karra-Elejalde/dp/B001FOPOD8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1294186090&sr=1-1

[The cover creates the impression it is a horror movie - which it isn't.]

And I realize you are not simply talking about "time-travel" here.

Hi Albion,

Looks interesting. I'll probably watch it sometime soon.

And I realize you are not simply talking about "time-travel" here

Of course not. I'm not sure that it is even possible in any physical sense. However, when one leaves the timeline one can to re-enter it at any time in ones life. Learning to recognize that is not the easiest thing. Every time I die, I re-enter my life, usually early enough to avoid the same cause of death though it often takes multiple tries. One time I came back in and opened my eyes. My first thought at looking around was "How can I possibly be HERE (the basement office of my house at the time). I haven't lived here for years. About two years later I moved out when my wife divorced me as I started recovering from decades of chronic illness as a completely different person having discovered the cause. However, I knew then that I had to settle a law suit immediately as fighting it would cost me everything, even to "win". About 15-20 years ago as the timeline goes I stopped having thousands of deja vu experiences and started having the same quantity of precognitive experiences. The only difference was that I remembered where and when I had previously seen the scene rather than finding a broken memory connection.

It's time travel like Bill Murray in GROUNDHOG DAY had. Once I "woke up" I started being reborn in my life over and over and remembering it. I even know how many times I have "recurred" at a specific time-place when it happens and usually what I have to solve. My first remembered communication with my future self was at about 2 years of age coaching my young self on how to deal with my rapidly becoming psychotic mother. I started remembering the details of Tantric sex at about 8 or 9 and thought "yuck". Now I am an initiated priest of Goddess and my entire sexual practice is sacred prayer, not "merely" sex.. I can't even begin to count the number of my passages through the many variations of this life. One can die at any time, not just physical death and one can be reborn at any time, not limited to physical birth.

Most data transfer happens in the first few seconds after the entry point as within seconds the memories built into the moment take over and one has "always" been there traveling forward. One thing to consider is that even if one is traveling backwards through the frames memory works as if traveling forward and one always "remembers" the previous instant as ones previous location even if it is ones' next location. Each "pass" makes for more consciousness in those moments.

III
10-04-2011, 05:28 AM
Let's consider what an alchemy might be. A person doses a series of things, whether physical, external, internal, meditational, etc. This causes as series of energies to be "drawn" over time, like drawing pictures with a sparkler in the dark. We then make these patterns part of us influencing the what and how of what we are. We do these things and write it back over and over, conforming with the fractal nature of the creation.

Then there is the WHY of what we are doing. For me that is the progressive development of the conscious individual, self realization etc. This includes the "know thy self" and the evolution of the conscious self. We are consciously self designed conscious intelligences. This is a different idea from strictly God-consciousness" in the various senses one typically sees it.. One incorporates said God-consciousness into one’s self, through the highest level of understanding one has, learns what one can from that, and does it again, building upon each increase in understanding. It is a fractal process; the end product of one pass feeds the entry point of the next pass.There is no endpoint per se. There is a constant deepening of the fractal with the increase of the variation possibilities and increasing perceptual detail.

In going back to Ramakrishna, he IS what he is. He didn't do observances and rituals after becoming a Yogi, in order to allow knowing God, to learn it, hedid what he did to continue to learn, as I would put it, additional entry points and additional methods. He never stopped learning and exploring. Life is where something can be changed. He learned Tantra after he was a Yogi, not as a way to become a Yogi.

I may not have described this well. Anybody else willing to try is welcome to do so.

If what you pursue is not deepening consciousness and awakeness applied tothe "self" and then the self resynthecized then this process is not for you. The consciously re-synthecized self, lives life bringing consciousness to every part of it. There are some parts of alchemical work for learning in the first place and there are some parts that are done over and over regardless of the accomplishment in order to carry on yet further.

So why would one do a sexual Alchemy? For starters, why not? We live in a physical world. Sex is certainly part of it as is chopping wood and carrying water. Sex also has direct divine access points built in. It's not easy to do everything so wrong in sex that divine connection becomes impossible but the "allowed" practices of most societies do just that, keeping sex locked into the ordinary and as far from the divine as possible. Think about the differences between a prayerful adoration of the yoni compared to a nude dancer doing a spread in front of your face for a tip.

It makes a great way to learn since it is quite direct in learning to deal with the direct connection to divine energy and starts right off in places guaranteed to find blocks of shames and fears. Shaktipat is a routine occurrence in tantric practice. It is a balanced approach utilizing the physical, theenergy, the mind and the devotional approaches. I certainly do enjoy a tantric alchemy. Or do you believe that spiritual practice shouldn’t be enjoyed? I find it very interesting to see the blocks I have and it is good to release them. A partnered alchemy is very intense as a relationship. You have to be able to trust your partner totally. The relationship has to be completely honest or it goes splat. Ideally those things would be a normal part of a relationship; trust, honesty and respect. Also of course is the understanding that each/both of you are going to be changing frequently. I do not practice an exploitive alchemy and don’t suggest that anybody do so. Sucking/extracting energies from a person even to their debilitation or death, if it is actually possible, is a lousy way to do things. We invoke the Shakti andShiva energies and work with them. In this work one is always approximately out of balance in a lug nut tightening type pattern with everything coming into balance at the end/beginning of each cycle. We each/both end up with far more energy than we started with. All this “energy”is also information.

A lot of those doing purification make choices to not deal with various things past the point of reducing their uncontrollable fear reactions that send them into unconsciousness. Because of deep cultural considerations sex has many of the most complicated fears and shames protecting it from even being looked at. Because of the way it has invaded our selves at so many levels; straight-out fears, shame, memes and entire cultural templates exist in our language and concepts that has become personalized within each of us, removing these personalized things also changes much of our interpretation of cultural norms. Things that seem to be “obvious”and not cultural become shown to be purely cultural. Cultural norms of masturbation of infants to comfort them to sleep in the 1700s becomes child sexual abuse in 21st century USA. Literally whipping the child and terrorizing them in 1900 to control them becomes child abuse leaving PTSD behind in the 2000. I have engaged in many methods of digging outblocks and triggers in myself. ONLY tantric massage has helped me find the blocks, recover the memories and release the traumas. These are items that had survived decades of inner work of various methods. The same goes for others I have worked with. I know of no other methods that end up with the person released from the traumas, healed and functioning normally. There are no guarantees. Just seeing what comes up is enough to make some folks run as is the case from Shaktipat no matter how given.

Why does sex come up so much? When people are in the post death “review” there is the feeling of being minutely examined by massive consciousness, at least how I have experienced it, and those I have observed have experienced it and others have reported to me. The fear that their bodies, sex organs, sex behaviors,sex feelings and thoughts will be seen and revealed to all is enough to cause automatic reaction. This is enough to send most into unconscious rebirth. Something like body shame all by itself is more than enough to cause such reactions. Body shame makes it impossible for people to learn about their bodies and their parts. They can’t talk about them. They can’t talk about why they can’t talk. The shame is so powerful they frequently can’t even voice it to themselves. They are taught to hide it all, even from themselves. We are taught shame at our mother’s hand in the bath or whatever, often from pre-verbal periods onwards. Body shame is so deeply ingrained in the culture and the language it is almost invisible. It can’t be talked about by most. It is denied even as it is exercised and protected. Thirty years ago I made the statement that women were fortunate in that there were no “standards of beauty”for the vulva, they were all good. Now labiaplasty is a major division of plastic surgery and shame exists because the labia or clitoris are too (big, small, wrong shaped, protruding, hidden) as seen in various media and no longer hidden in pubic hair. Instead of liberation from fear there is a whole new level of fear; not just fear of that which “must be hidden” being seen but that it also isn’t good enough to be seen. A more general expression is “I’m too (fat,skinny, old, wrinkled) to be seen nude”.

A tantric alchemy allows these things to be dealt with. It takes a person straight to theirf ears. It allows them to often recall the original abuse by accessing their memory links via sensation rather than the verbal memory which is redone several times as we mature from 12 months to 7 years.. It’s the verbal memory that has all the blocks in place followed by body armouring as a response to the verbal blockages. It doesn’t work for everybody. It isn’t perfect. Some people can’t or won’t deal with these things no matter how released because of overwhelming fear. Alchemy certainly isn’t for everybody.

I have noticed that some descriptions of tantra include the statement that the “good” (right-hand) tantra varieties don’t challenge cultural assumptions. Really? Cultural assumptions keep people blind and ignorant and imprisoned. This kissing up to cultural assumptions will cripple an alchemy. It makes the clearance of any problem with a cultural assumption at its basis as unapproachable and hence impossible to do. I don’t know of ANY alchemy which serves the powers that be. It is not the purpose of alchemy to keep the priests and politicians in power and make people toe the line to any old cultural standard.

Ghislain
10-04-2011, 10:16 AM
What if the when one does a series of things they are so chaotic that they never come together to
make meaningful sense; only written over a couple of times before fading out just as the image of a
sparkler would?

You say we are consciously self designed...what if one is a crap designer with “goldfish”
mentality...the fractal becoming just a point of repetition, a dot; one may like to turn the dot into a
line but the goldfish starts a new dot. If one looked at a fractal like this one may make the
assumption that there is no fractal but just a point.

Is everything “right NOW” as Eckhart Tolle would tell us?

If it is then where would be the entry points? To have another point it would have to be relative to
another place then there would be distance and with distance there becomes time and with time
you have a “now” and a “then”.

My personal problem is that if I start to learn something I start to neglect something else...if we go
back to the analogy of a sparkler then...

Learning would look like this:
http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/sparkler1.jpg

and my mind looks like this:

http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/sparkler2.jpg

I can not give a better description of Ramakrishna...as you say, “he IS what he is”,

http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/Sri%20Ramakrishna.jpg

but then are we not all just what we are?...which IMHO is everything we need to be, but just not focusing on that fact.

Is “God Consciousness” an ordered form of what we already are...a focus? Or is there an extra something you need to achieve “God
Consciousness”?

I think that is what I lack..focus. How does one achieve focus if the problem you are trying to deal
with is lack of focus?


There are some parts of alchemical work for learning in the first place and there are some
parts that are done over and over regardless of the accomplishment in order to carry on
yet further.

If one carries out, “parts that are done over and over regardless of the accomplishment in order to
carry on yet further”, what happens if those reiterative parts are wrong?


So why would one do a sexual Alchemy?

Could Sexual Alchemy be a tool for focusing?

I have to admit I do carry that fear of sexual expression...what if I express myself and someone
laughs at my ignorance? I am no Hulk so I guess body shame does play a part in the fear. I believe
my penis to be the absolute norm...:)... does everyone else think theirs is? LOL. If it's different to
mine you’re a freak! ;)

I’m sitting here in my pants writing this and the postman knocked with a parcel...I answered the
door in my pants...wonder what he thought?


It allows them to often recall the original abuse

Is abuse a bit strong III? Would misinformation be a better word? Abuse seems to portray a
misdeed done with intention, whereas what we are talking of here is done out of ignorance is it not?
Just my opinion.


It isn’t perfect. Some people can’t or won’t deal with these things no matter how released
because of overwhelming fear.

I guess you might count me in there...maybe that is where alcohol comes in...but I don’t drink
:)...although I have in the past and I guess it was fairly liberating...what is your opinion on that III?



Is it cultural assumptions or is it prejudice, bigotry and hidden agendas that keep people blind and
imprisoned? When I talk of hidden agendas I am talking of hidden from the self also.

Where I work there are people who over work, those that do what is a fair days work and those that
do very little, but each of them believe they are doing what is expected. It is all a matter of
perspective. We can all behave differently and in ourselves see what we do as the norm and judge
others on this; as I just did there.

Recently I have been watching, “Extreme Makeover”, where they take someone who is
“aesthetically” challenged and turn them into someone who can be accepted by the masses to be
“aesthetically” pleasing...the problem is that I find myself respecting the finished product more than
I did the initial raw material...how shallow is that.

We have many hidden beliefs that would be better off purged, but if one can’t identify these hidden
beliefs how does one begin to overcome them. Also once identified how would one overcome them
if they are beliefs?

For example...and probably a bad one but...

if I met a person and they were aesthetically challenged...let’s say they are hugely obese because of
a hereditary condition...they have moles on the face, big ones with thick hairs coming out...their hair
looks like they have been dragged through a hedge backwards, but through no fault of their own, it
just grows that way...they have a nose you could ski on...teeth so crooked you wonder how they
close their mouth, they live in an isolated community where all the other people look the same...it is
the norm and so they have no body consciousness or fear.

This person is the nicest person I have ever met and get along with so well with so much in common
– except the looks...

How would I feel introducing them to my friends... how would I feel about taking the relationship to
another level? What would they feel about me...now I am the strange one?

Is this a natural selection thing built in to keep the majority of the population in check for the most
adequate form for survival or is it just ingrained mass hypnosis instilled by the minority to make the
majority believe they should strive toward this appearance for the minorities own personal gains?
(cosmetics industry comes to mind) I don’t know \o/...But it works on me.

Here is a story I am really not proud of ... probably more of a confession :( don’t hate me after this...I
have had to live with it for many years...

I had a friend at school who would come to my house in the afternoon and we would play and get
along really well...we would walk to school together in the morning...however this person was
deemed the school simpleton (he wasn’t he was just different)...the butt of everyone’s jokes. So just
before arriving at the school we would part company and he knew not to talk to me during the day
for fear someone would lump me in the same category as him...what was worse still he agreed with
it too. At that time I didn’t really think I was doing anything wrong...it is only on reflection that I
realise what a terrible thing it was to do...later in life I procured a job with his younger brother...I
wonder if he knew :( kids huh!

Is this what turning the lead into gold is about...finding those hidden beliefs that are crippling and
expelling them?

Phew it’s hard work...is there an easy way? :)

Ghislain

MarkostheGnostic
10-04-2011, 03:58 PM
Beauty, is hard-wired, and there are numerous studies to illustrate this. Watch babies faces while they look at people's faces. Babies show attraction or aversion. Show babies distorted 'schematas' of faces, and they cry (e.g., noses in place of eyes, an eyeball for a mouth, etc.). http://www.psy.uwa.edu.au/facelab/PublicFaces_files/Rhodes1998.pdf

Appearance is not unimportant, especially in social and sexual domains. I've had a female friend who only wanted to be around attractive females. I thought it terribly shallow, until I saw another former friend of my Lady, get pissed with envy. Pre-elected President Obama flirted with my Lady from his limo, while her friend (a lawyer), was ignored. It was only the two of them on the street with the entourage. I then understood the other friend's philosophy - she didn't want to deal with womens' emotional baggage surrounding their 'desirability,' and needing constant affirmation. She wanted to be with women who were confident about themselves. Unfortunately, the focus was ONLY on appearances, not substance.

I am definitely not a shallow individual. I am, for the most part, too deep for my own good, socially speaking. I express equanimity with adolescents, although the obese or homely child is often more difficult than the pretty child, because they already realize that most people give prettier children more attention, more smiles, more lingering eye contact. I have always practiced equanimity, even as a kid, out of compassion. I could never focus on the pretty girl and ignore her less attractive friend. I could not be unkind, but in the days of genital-stage adolescence, this kindness was a death knell to the attraction of girls to physically aggressive and often cruel males. Nevertheless, my physical-sexual attraction to females has very definite contours. Even though I have expanded my aesthetic for feminine beauty to other ethnicities, certain physical characteristics are necessary for me to be truly excited, and certain physical characteristics cause me outrighht aversion. Of course, attraction-aversion also takes place in other domains (Social, cultural, valuational, etc.), but I think that these factors are also hard-wired to my constitution, and the saying that applies is 'Like attracts like,' and 'Birds of a feather, flock [or f**k :) ) together.' I see Sheldon's Constitutional Psychology applying here. I'm a 'Meso-Ectomorph,' and I'm attracted to other Meso-Ectomorphs.

III
10-04-2011, 06:45 PM
Beauty, is hard-wired, and there are numerous studies to illustrate this. Watch babies faces while they look at people's faces. Babies show attraction or aversion. Show babies distorted 'schematas' of faces, and they cry (e.g., noses in place of eyes, an eyeball for a mouth, etc.). http://www.psy.uwa.edu.au/facelab/PublicFaces_files/Rhodes1998.pdf

Appearance is not unimportant, especially in social and sexual domains. I've had a female friend who only wanted to be around attractive females. I thought it terribly shallow, until I saw another former friend of my Lady, get pissed with envy. Pre-elected President Obama flirted with my Lady from his limo, while her friend (a lawyer), was ignored. It was only the two of them on the street with the entourage. I then understood the other friend's philosophy - she didn't want to deal with womens' emotional baggage surrounding their 'desirability,' and needing constant affirmation. She wanted to be with women who were confident about themselves. Unfortunately, the focus was ONLY on appearances, not substance.

I am definitely not a shallow individual. I am, for the most part, too deep for my own good, socially speaking. I express equanimity with adolescents, although the obese or homely child is often more difficult than the pretty child, because they already realize that most people give prettier children more attention, more smiles, more lingering eye contact. I have always practiced equanimity, even as a kid, out of compassion. I could never focus on the pretty girl and ignore her less attractive friend. I could not be unkind, but in the days of genital-stage adolescence, this kindness was a death knell to the attraction of girls to physically aggressive and often cruel males. Nevertheless, my physical-sexual attraction to females has very definite contours. Even though I have expanded my aesthetic for feminine beauty to other ethnicities, certain physical characteristics are necessary for me to be truly excited, and certain physical characteristics cause me outrighht aversion. Of course, attraction-aversion also takes place in other domains (Social, cultural, valuational, etc.), but I think that these factors are also hard-wired to my constitution, and the saying that applies is 'Like attracts like,' and 'Birds of a feather, flock [or f**k :) ) together.' I see Sheldon's Constitutional Psychology applying here. I'm a 'Meso-Ectomorph,' and I'm attracted to other Meso-Ectomorphs.

Hi Markosthegnostic,

I have no disagreement with much that you write. There are a lot of factors to attraction. However, I would like to add some of my experiences to it. Consider the effect of the environment we are in, essentially a virtual reality/matrix type of deal. When one allows one's self to be aware of this and observes a person there is so much more to be seen. At the physical appearance level there is what comes in the load from the environment. In my experience that is very sparse and provides only a minimum outline of things. What a person looks like is only suggested at that level. Then there is that person's projection of what they look like, and this may vary somewhat depending upon their audiance. Then there is the observer's projection of what they look like. In addition, if one looks more deeply there are all the causalities of why they might look one way or another in accumulation over time. Adelle Davis wrote "LET'S HAVE HEALTHY CHILDREN" many years ago. In it was a series of childrens faces demonstrating the effects of malnutrition or ill health on how a child's face is shaped. The face doesn't grow all at once so the lower, mid or upper section may be under developed compared to the other sections depending upon childhood nutrition and health. It's the same with bodies. How a person holds their bodies, their muscles etc will affect their developement and how they look. A minor example from my own life. When I lost feeling and balance in my right foot due to b12 deficiency in order to be able to balance and know where my foot was I had to angle it outwards. Everything stretched and tightened it into that position. When I regained enough feeling to regain balance and position awareness I found I had a body that was very skewed in compensation for that positioning. It took 5 painful years of conscious walking to bring my foot back around to facing forward. The knee, hip and lower back problems I had all disapperared. My body no longer looks skewed.

My ex-wife of 33 years literally did not recognize me after 9 months of absence from my presence during a period of rapid healing from decades of chronic illness caused by b12-folate deficiency until I spoke. My entire body carriage changed when the muscles were not all in constant spasm. My skin improved dramatically. I had lost 85 pounds of water bloat due to nutritional problems and had started rebuilding atrophied muscles. I was an inch taller. I no longer looked like I was dying. I had a different haircut and comb job.

So the environmental factors affect how we look, the older we get the more influence that has. At 60 some people have skin that looks like leather, others with skin that wouldn't look out of place on a 30 year old. How they hold their facial muscles affects how their face is molded over the years. Smoking and heavy drinking make a contribution to skin condition.


When one can see the "download" appearance plus the person's body-face projection plus their own projection plus the "environmental" projection etc, what does the person "really" look like? Every time my partner is away and return or we enter into different "space" we are each aware of the differences in how we each look. Years ago, after I had an NDE and came back a completely different person, my wife could see the difference the instant she saw me at a distance in how I looked and so could I see the differences. I barely recognized her and didn't recognize my son they both looked so different. He thought at that instant was "So this is what he looks like to a stranger".

Babies are no blank slate. They carry with them a multitude of lifetimes of "distilled experience". A very few wake up and remember that consciously, most don't but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Attraction is a very complicated business. Recent research points at those having complementary immune systems as being attractive to each other. I have some minor miscellaneous dating experience in high school and found the extremely high IQ girls most attractive. By college I had most relationships with young ladies brought to me just as my current partner was. For whatever reason I could see the beauty of each of them, despite various physiical types. They were each highly intelligent and talented and very empathic and each needed certain types of "work". I had met each of them in my dreams and accepted working with them before they showed up in the body. So I can only say how it has worked for me. There is far more than the merely physical at play in all this.

theFool
10-04-2011, 09:24 PM
I would like to thank III for his valuble information given on the subject of b12 supplementation (given in the thread: "I almost died, and am in the hospital. * READ IF YOU ARE DOING THE INTERNAL PATH *"; I answer here because I find it more relevant to this topic).
The previous weeks, I started an experiment by trying b12 as he suggested. First, I have tried methyl-b12 from solgar company but I didn't observe something positive to happen. I insisted and took methyl-b12 from Jarrows. Within two hours I could feel the difference in my health quality. I continue taking it together with folate and observing the effects. In some of the links provided by III it is said that methyl-b12 supplementation may cause insufficiencies to other nutrients because of the intense healing processes it stimulates. Consider these seriously before taking methyl-b12, there is the need to take some other supplements together with it.
Thanks again III for the lengthy reports on this issue.

MarkostheGnostic
10-04-2011, 10:46 PM
Very interesting, you B12 deficiency. Glad you corrected yourself systemically. How does this happen? Non-meating folk still need to supplement this, and all B-complex vitamins.
I agree with you about substance use enviornmental factors, and habitual emotions with regard to their relation to body language. I work at being as aware of these things as possible, and control of these variables. Following my divorce after 13 years of marriage, i was 'eating myself up alive' with bitter emotions, resentment, self-recriminations, repressed vengeance. Those chronic feelings, I am certain, precipitated the change that tuned an atypical nevus into malignant melanoma which could have killed me!

Aside from physical attributes, I too require a high IQ (my Lady was accepted to Princeton, U. of Pennsylvania, and attended Cornell). I also require a moral development at least equal to my own.

Andro
10-04-2011, 11:01 PM
Thanks again III for the lengthy reports on this issue.

Same here (regarding the b12 topics). Thank you. Much appreciated.


I also require a moral development at least equal to my own.

I personally find 'morality'/'moral development' to be a rather fluid/slippery concept.

How do you define 'morality'? And how do you measure 'moral development'?

MarkostheGnostic
10-05-2011, 12:50 AM
Same here (regarding the b12 topics). Thank you. Much appreciated.



I personally find 'morality'/'moral development' to be a rather fluid/slippery concept.

How do you define 'morality'? And how do you measure 'moral development'?

I am a human developmentalist. Jean Piaget's work, built upon by Lawrence Kohlberg, yielded a universal scheme of moral development which has proved to identify invariant stages of moral development in virtually every society on the planet from Americans to Aborigines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development I hold to a Post-Conventional morality in many respects, and there have been times when I believe that Kohlberg's hypothetical Stage 7 - Transcendental Morality has operated. I would find a Conventional morality to be unacceptable in a relationship. For example, A Stage 4, 'Law and Order' morality, as typified by the average police officer, would not be something I could relate to. If my Lady was a cop, and she was arresting people for possession of a nickel bag of cannabis, or worse, a whole ounce, giving some kid a felony charge - because it's the law - would be abhorrent to me. And, let me be clear - I don't even use cannabis. It's the [moral] principal at stake.

III
10-05-2011, 07:00 AM
What if the when one does a series of things they are so chaotic that they never come together to
make meaningful sense; only written over a couple of times before fading out just as the image of a
sparkler would?

You say we are consciously self designed...what if one is a crap designer with “goldfish”
mentality...the fractal becoming just a point of repetition, a dot; one may like to turn the dot into a
line but the goldfish starts a new dot. If one looked at a fractal like this one may make the
assumption that there is no fractal but just a point.

Is everything “right NOW” as Eckhart Tolle would tell us?

If it is then where would be the entry points? To have another point it would have to be relative to
another place then there would be distance and with distance there becomes time and with time
you have a “now” and a “then”.

My personal problem is that if I start to learn something I start to neglect something else...if we go
back to the analogy of a sparkler then...

Learning would look like this:
http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/sparkler1.jpg

and my mind looks like this:

http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/sparkler2.jpg

I can not give a better description of Ramakrishna...as you say, “he IS what he is”,

http://genius.toucansurf.com/Sparklers/Sri%20Ramakrishna.jpg

but then are we not all just what we are?...which IMHO is everything we need to be, but just not focusing on that fact.

Is “God Consciousness” an ordered form of what we already are...a focus? Or is there an extra something you need to achieve “God
Consciousness”?

I think that is what I lack..focus. How does one achieve focus if the problem you are trying to deal
with is lack of focus?



If one carries out, “parts that are done over and over regardless of the accomplishment in order to
carry on yet further”, what happens if those reiterative parts are wrong?



Could Sexual Alchemy be a tool for focusing?

I have to admit I do carry that fear of sexual expression...what if I express myself and someone
laughs at my ignorance? I am no Hulk so I guess body shame does play a part in the fear. I believe
my penis to be the absolute norm...:)... does everyone else think theirs is? LOL. If it's different to
mine you’re a freak! ;)

I’m sitting here in my pants writing this and the postman knocked with a parcel...I answered the
door in my pants...wonder what he thought?



Is abuse a bit strong III? Would misinformation be a better word? Abuse seems to portray a
misdeed done with intention, whereas what we are talking of here is done out of ignorance is it not?
Just my opinion.



I guess you might count me in there...maybe that is where alcohol comes in...but I don’t drink
:)...although I have in the past and I guess it was fairly liberating...what is your opinion on that III?



Is it cultural assumptions or is it prejudice, bigotry and hidden agendas that keep people blind and
imprisoned? When I talk of hidden agendas I am talking of hidden from the self also.

Where I work there are people who over work, those that do what is a fair days work and those that
do very little, but each of them believe they are doing what is expected. It is all a matter of
perspective. We can all behave differently and in ourselves see what we do as the norm and judge
others on this; as I just did there.

Recently I have been watching, “Extreme Makeover”, where they take someone who is
“aesthetically” challenged and turn them into someone who can be accepted by the masses to be
“aesthetically” pleasing...the problem is that I find myself respecting the finished product more than
I did the initial raw material...how shallow is that.

We have many hidden beliefs that would be better off purged, but if one can’t identify these hidden
beliefs how does one begin to overcome them. Also once identified how would one overcome them
if they are beliefs?

For example...and probably a bad one but...

if I met a person and they were aesthetically challenged...let’s say they are hugely obese because of
a hereditary condition...they have moles on the face, big ones with thick hairs coming out...their hair
looks like they have been dragged through a hedge backwards, but through no fault of their own, it
just grows that way...they have a nose you could ski on...teeth so crooked you wonder how they
close their mouth, they live in an isolated community where all the other people look the same...it is
the norm and so they have no body consciousness or fear.

This person is the nicest person I have ever met and get along with so well with so much in common
– except the looks...

How would I feel introducing them to my friends... how would I feel about taking the relationship to
another level? What would they feel about me...now I am the strange one?

Is this a natural selection thing built in to keep the majority of the population in check for the most
adequate form for survival or is it just ingrained mass hypnosis instilled by the minority to make the
majority believe they should strive toward this appearance for the minorities own personal gains?
(cosmetics industry comes to mind) I don’t know \o/...But it works on me.

Here is a story I am really not proud of ... probably more of a confession :( don’t hate me after this...I
have had to live with it for many years...

I had a friend at school who would come to my house in the afternoon and we would play and get
along really well...we would walk to school together in the morning...however this person was
deemed the school simpleton (he wasn’t he was just different)...the butt of everyone’s jokes. So just
before arriving at the school we would part company and he knew not to talk to me during the day
for fear someone would lump me in the same category as him...what was worse still he agreed with
it too. At that time I didn’t really think I was doing anything wrong...it is only on reflection that I
realise what a terrible thing it was to do...later in life I procured a job with his younger brother...I
wonder if he knew :( kids huh!

Is this what turning the lead into gold is about...finding those hidden beliefs that are crippling and
expelling them?

Phew it’s hard work...is there an easy way? :)

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain,

Is this what turning the lead into gold is about...finding those hidden beliefs that are crippling and
expelling them?

In my experience I would have to say that is a large part of the work, purification. There are several books I found most helpful in all this By EJ Gold. There are others as well that he has written. He also has written one called ALCHEMICAL SEX which would also be of interest after the basics and THE HIDDEN WORK.

THE HUMAN BIOLOGICAL MACHINE AS A TRANSFORMATIONAL APPARATUS
PRACTICAL WORK ON SELF
LIFE IN THE LABRYNTH

Phew it’s hard work...is there an easy way?

Not of which I am aware.


Is everything “right NOW” as Eckhart Tolle would tell us?

One way of looking at our situation would be that. I would expand upon it that all of everything exists in one cosmic intstant and that where we think we are controls where our "current consciousness pointer" places our awareness. Right now each of our consciousness is the sum total of all previous understanding and experience modiefied by what we reject by blocking out and disconnecting form. Again, going by what EJ Gold has said that I have seen myself and been doing for decades is the work of finding our marooned, in a differnt "time slice", pieces of consciousness and reattaching them. They are cut off by our fears and "those hidden beliefs that are crippling".

Recently I have been watching, “Extreme Makeover”, where they take someone who is
“aesthetically” challenged and turn them into someone who can be accepted by the masses to be
“aesthetically” pleasing...the problem is that I find myself respecting the finished product more than
I did the initial raw material...how shallow is that.

What they are changing in these shows could be called "outer theater". That can be part of what we consciously project. The question becomes what is the person like a year or five years later. How have they changed themselves? A "makeover" by others has little staying power. If a person is treated as "ugly" they will learn a response pattern. If they are treated as attractive they will develop a different response pattern, but maybe just become defensive about other things Changing ones self and seeing that reflected in the outer appearance can be a way of seeing how one has changed. Ego based changes go wrong because real changes are broad in effect whereas the ego wants to change one or two things and assumes that everything else stays the same. That is one reason why a partnered alchemy can be so powerful, it gives one a mirror to see one's self being what one honestly is. This self honesty can be painful.

We have many hidden beliefs that would be better off purged, but if one can’t identify these hidden
beliefs how does one begin to overcome them. Also once identified how would one overcome them
if they are beliefs?

First of all, that is part of what my partner and I do for each other, bring out these hidden beliefs and fears. If you haven't read Carlos Castenaeda that could give some clues. I'm not going to debate the nature of these books. What they do so well in my mind is illustrate the nature of the interactions. Don Juan goes out of his way to bring Carlos to his edges. He tells him things, puts him in situations. He goes through a series of experiences in the first two books. In the third book Carlos then reinterprets what happened before with a "Oh what a dweeb I've been, here is my new understanding". This happens over and over again in following books. This is very realistic, even so far as to remembering things that had been completely forgotten in a change of consciousness. The old joke about a guy who misplaces his car keys while drunk has to get drunk again to find them says it well. Many memories are "state associated". This has been experimentally verified. Memories from "expanded" or otherwise "altered" consciousness frequently can't be remembered in a smaller or different consciousness. It's like the "index" isn't accessable so it can't be found.

When my future partner came to me we talked a lot and I found out a lot about her. The challange I presented her was to go to a nudist halloween costume party and she would go as a male and me as a female. We spent perhaps a month making exceedingly detailed and anatomically accurate latex body parts. I offerred her 3 different size foam pieces to serve as the basis of her penis. She picked the medium size one which turned out to be a robust 8 incher when finished. She was confronted with many of her body fears, as was I, in the whole process talking about, fabricating, modeling and finally going to the party. She won a prize. I had cat-eye rhinestone sunglasses and a pink feather boa as part of my costume, the only clothing as such beyond footwear, and I had too much spirit gum with exposed edges to which the pink feathers stuck most outrageously.

Once her fears and triggers were identified, she set up a "watcher" to catch whenever any of these were activated and how to trace them back to the beginning. There is a simple exercise to accomplish that learning of setting up a watcher. Once the real root of the trigger is found and one watches the whole behavior consciously instead of unconciously it is defused and never HAS to be done again. Understanding changes as one receives understanding in place of triggering. Periodically when enough changes are made suddenly things change and gel in a new form with the new understanding being the new basis. This "gel" experience is genrally accompanied by a high energy experience in which the new understandings replace the old as one settles back into personal self. This is often following the experience of "dying" as the old persona is discarded, including facing that fear of death. Once this process is started it tends to keep going if allowed.

When I saw Ramakrishna in an experience he was with a handsome younger guy. When I saw a picture of the two some while later I recognized Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. I thought that Ramakrishna was quite "seedy" looking. IN reading up on him it is clear that he was sufferring very much from at least b12 deficiencies.

“he IS what he is”, ...but then are we not all just what we are?

What I meant was that he didn't have to "try" or do rituals to be in god-consciousness. It was part of him. He wasn't seeking to add it in. He just had to turn his attention to it.. He cared not at all how others perceived him. Many of his attributes that have been used to validate his way of beeing were ascribed to his being god-conscious. I would identify many of those as symptoms of b12 deficiencies.

So in alchemy we do things to add to us things we are not already aware of. In the beginning that is "god-consciousness". As we progress beyond that we can modify and expand the nature of our awareness and how we handle it. What that means I can't explain. Going back to an old joke. Three friends are lost out in the woods talking about how great it would be to have some food. One guy says "I know a great recipe for roast wild duck". One of his friends says "And what is that?". The first guy says , "Bring me the wild duck and I can show you from there".

Is “God Consciousness” an ordered form of what we already are...a focus? Or is there an extra something you need to achieve “God Consciousness”?

I'm going to try to say it as best I can, using OOM type terminology. Many have said that we are a "miniature" of the greater consciousness. I might say we are a specific "viewpoint" of the fractal. However, we have each blocked off all those many things that we find personally or culturally forbidden. As we unblock ourselves we become more and more resonant with "god consciousness" as we have more and more of our parts joined in. Learning to focus is important, especially on those thongs that we have not been able to see even in front of our faces.

Is it cultural assumptions or is it prejudice, bigotry and hidden agendas that keep people blind and
imprisoned? When I talk of hidden agendas I am talking of hidden from the self also.

I think all of those you listed and probably quite a few more.

I think that is what I lack..focus. How does one achieve focus if the problem you are trying to deal
with is lack of focus?

PRACTICAL WORK ON SELF is a series of 24 attention traning exercises and other things.

Could Sexual Alchemy be a tool for focusing?

Yes. Take a yoni puja for instance. Can you bring your attention down to a single pointed adorational focus using the vulva as the object of such adorational focus? The perception of passage of time disappears when that occurs. On the other end of it, how about a lingam puja with you supplying the object of adoration and again finding the single pointed focus on receiving that adoration? Both of these are stunningly powerful when done. They will also bring up all sorts of automatic unconscious reactions over and over, so practice is important.

A simple exercise from PRACTICAL WORK ... Find a clock with a real sweep second hand. Paint the tip a bright color for easy visibility. Then bring attention down to a single pointed focus. See how many breaks of attention of any kind you have in 2 minutes. You can keep track with a malah or anything of the sort. Keep doing it until you can have two minutes of unbroken attention without any stray thoughts or other loss of attention. It isn't easy.

If one carries out, “parts that are done over and over regardless of the accomplishment in order to
carry on yet further”, what happens if those reiterative parts are wrong?

This becomes a "12 MONKEY" question. Where is your most advanced "NOW" as all this takes place in the same cosmic instant? Once something real changes in you, it has ALWAYS been that. It's hard on a linear logic. So once you down-nest, "uncrystalize" that level you are redoing, make changes and write it back all instants of "you" that are subsequent to it, in OOM speak, an instancing of the same class, are changed as soon as the base class is changed because of inheritance.. So in that case you are working from your future if you ever succeeded in Alchemy. If you haven't done so then when you do you will suddenly understand/know that you have always been working from your future self in down-nests. Since all down-nesting is recurrsive, not reiterative, each level you come up after a change may allow another in a series of down-nests to upnest; cascading resolution where one change allows a number of other pending changes to occur. Consider the movie "THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR" from a book of a different name, SIMULACON 3 by Danial Galouye. There it is portrayed as a simulation inside a simulation inside a simulation ...

So it is recursive, rather than rather than reiterative. Then the question as to what if that cycle which is repeated is "wrong"? That is a more difficult question. The cycles that are repeated map quite well to the Hermetic alchemical cycle. A person enters "new" territory, they confront all their reappearing blockes, triggers and memes, in slighty different forms, purify them, have a very energetic experience, get a "look-ahead" as they enter the new territory etc. There are more steps than that but they are not something you have to cause to happen. It is something one allows to occur by going along with it. It is more of a dealing with these things as they come up once the pattern is catalyzed.

So in the dealing with these cycles it can go from taking a lifetime to go through a cycle to being able to go through the cycle in the course of an evening of work or a few evenings. The trick is recognizing the cycle, not in making it happen. When one speeds it up with conscious work it is to recognize that each time there is trigger that thows us into unconscious reaction, if we can trace back on the trigger it would be to the point that some information is about to come into you that must be stopped to protect ones fears and "have-to-be"s. It's a defense mechanism to keep us away from knowledge which we don't want. Most people stop the flow of self knowledge dozens to hundreds of times each day. Each time is an opportunity to start paying attention.

Each time we allow another layer of understanding-knowledge-knowing we can see another layer of finer and finer distinctions. So we work through fears, then concerns, then regrets, have-to-bes, then might-have-beens (things not done) etc. Order may vary, descriptions may vary. At some point the things that become served up quite automatically that had been fears etc are no longer anything one might recognize as such and it becomes ridiculous to continue as they things being presented no longer are triggering. The steps become the size of octaves, the octaves become what had been octave of octaves, the "items" become bigger and are more general through larger swaths of ones life. This rescaling happens over and over again. Start with any trigger and learn to find it's root and release the attachment to it. Often just seeing it's root is all it takes; sort of an uncertainty priciple that the trigger can only be there when you are not looking.

You say we are consciously self designed...what if one is a crap designer with “goldfish”
mentality...the fractal becoming just a point of repetition, a dot; one may like to turn the dot into a
line but the goldfish starts a new dot. If one looked at a fractal like this one may make the
assumption that there is no fractal but just a point.

Alchemy under whatever name is considered a most difficult pursuit. It certainly has it's risks, not the least of which is being killed by the peasants who fear what they don't understand or at various times, the priesthoods who don't want competition in the divine knowledge area. It can also go badly. As it makes irreversible changes there are those who may be unhappy with the results. Some react very badly to seeing "truth". I don't remember my actual start in it but by the time I made it into this life I was already well along. I have flashes of memories going back at least 4,000 years and various lives as a priest, shaman and other such. I also remember being burned at the stake and some other unpleasant deaths.

I guess you might count me in there...maybe that is where alcohol comes in...but I don’t drink
:)...although I have in the past and I guess it was fairly liberating...what is your opinion on that III?

I drink a little. I sometimes have at most 2 glasses of wine over a few hours with dinner. Sometimes we split bottles of a couple of varieties of microbrewery beer. While alcohol can release inbhibitions of various behaviors it also deadens consciousness and dampens neurological activity. Small amounts don't seem to make any difference and larger amounts are no help for most.

Is abuse a bit strong III? Would misinformation be a better word? Abuse seems to portray a
misdeed done with intention, whereas what we are talking of here is done out of ignorance is it not?
Just my opinion.

I use "abuse" for activities that can cause traumatic blocks. Terrorization of a two year old with a leather belt is abuse to that 2 year old and can cause problems lasting lifetimes whether the person involved believes "spare the rod and spoil the child" or "I'm going to make that little bugger hurt". Other things might not be so clearcut. However, try letting it get around that a person masturbates infants to help them calm down and sleep and see what happens to that person these days.


I have to admit I do carry that fear of sexual expression...what if I express myself and someone
laughs at my ignorance? I am no Hulk so I guess body shame does play a part in the fear. I believe
my penis to be the absolute norm...:)... does everyone else think theirs is? LOL. If it's different to
mine you’re a freak!

Ignorance can be cured. Body shame is not dependent upon body form. Anybody can find any number of reasons. "Normal" people want to be abnormal in some way. "Abnormal" people want to be "normal". I took a young lady who was sufferring from anorexia and was skinny as a rail to a nudist event. Before the end of the evening she came to the realization that she was by far the skinniest person there and she ceased being anorexic. She found it impossible to maintain the belief that she was fat when she could see that she was just the opposite compared to more than 100 bodies all around her. I hadn't expected that outcome but it occurred. Consider that there also were no average bodies there. Each body is as unique and distinctive as the face. I even met a man without a belly button; it was literally shot off in the war.

One day at the country club the door to the men's locker room was stuck open. The steam was down to waiste level. Several ladies were standing outside observing the men that went by. They were comenting on the various penises they saw. When one very distictive penis came into sight one lady said "If I had seen that one before I would certainly recognize it." After another moment studying it another lady said, "I don't recognize it either". The third lady finally said "Of course not. He is obviously not even a member of this club".

theFool
10-05-2011, 07:13 AM
Very interesting, you B12 deficiency. Glad you corrected yourself systemically. How does this happen? Non-meating folk still need to supplement this, and all B-complex vitamins.
I suppose because of some kind of poor digestion (I am not vegetarian). The funny thing is that whoever I have given this to try until now, reports posive effects too. Either b12 deficiency is very widespread or the body works more efficiently on great amounts of b12. What we define as deficiency is relevant. It depends on what health standards you define.
Every dosage of methyl-b12 is about 80000% more than the recommended daily dosage. So, if someone is taking only the recommended daily dosage, will be b12 deficient compared to the one who takes 80000% more. Anyway, just some thoughts. I just want to say that this product really works.

III
10-07-2011, 06:18 AM
I suppose because of some kind of poor digestion (I am not vegetarian). The funny thing is that whoever I have given this to try until now, reports posive effects too. Either b12 deficiency is very widespread or the body works more efficiently on great amounts of b12. What we define as deficiency is relevant. It depends on what health standards you define.
Every dosage of methyl-b12 is about 80000% more than the recommended daily dosage. So, if someone is taking only the recommended daily dosage, will be b12 deficient compared to the one who takes 80000% more. Anyway, just some thoughts. I just want to say that this product really works.

Hi TheFool

Either b12 deficiency is very widespread

It is very widespread. Estimates vary but appproach 50% for some age groups. Further, cyanocobalamin, the usual vitamin form is effective on up to 1/3 of symptoms for 2/3 of people. That leaves 7/9 of per-symptoms untouched. People taking cyancobalamin can develop severe b12 deficiency even while taking cyanocobalamin as I did. Many people have deficiency symptoms for decades before they might be recognized.

Every dosage of methyl-b12 is about 80000% more than the recommended daily dosage

That is the result of a lot of poor research based on cyanocobalamin and amounts to mythology. It certainly has no bearing on the two 5 star brands of methylcobalamin

What we define as deficiency is relevant. It depends on what health standards you define.

What is deficiency is based on cyanocobalamin which ONLY works, and poorly at that, on up to 1/3 of symptoms for up to 2/3 of people leaving 7/9 of person-symptoms based on the real natural active b12 forms defining b12 deficiency by what they work on.

Every dosage of methyl-b12 is about 80000% more than the recommended daily dosage. So, if someone is taking only the recommended daily dosage, will be b12 deficient compared to the one who takes 80000%
more.


It is actually a lot more complicated than that. Mb12 has dose proportionate effects but it is not linear and falls off rapidly. Also there is a SECOND threshold dose for some people at the level at which mb12 penetrates the CSF, around 7.5mg injected subcutaneously. The body effect typically doesn't increase past 3mg injected SC, about 10,000-15,000mcg sublingually. The "6mcg is all you need or the body can use" basis of the RDA is totally bogus and is based on deeply flawed research and incorrect assumptions..

I just want to say that this product really works

It sure is. And it dependes on the right brand taken correctly and having the other needed factors in the body already or also taken as supplements. The need for potassium often increases a lot after day 3. Muscle spasms, heart palpitations, mood changes, and a lot more can occur with lack of potassium which can end up fatal.

III
10-07-2011, 06:55 AM
I am a human developmentalist. Jean Piaget's work, built upon by Lawrence Kohlberg, yielded a universal scheme of moral development which has proved to identify invariant stages of moral development in virtually every society on the planet from Americans to Aborigines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development I hold to a Post-Conventional morality in many respects, and there have been times when I believe that Kohlberg's hypothetical Stage 7 - Transcendental Morality has operated. I would find a Conventional morality to be unacceptable in a relationship. For example, A Stage 4, 'Law and Order' morality, as typified by the average police officer, would not be something I could relate to. If my Lady was a cop, and she was arresting people for possession of a nickel bag of cannabis, or worse, a whole ounce, giving some kid a felony charge - because it's the law - would be abhorrent to me. And, let me be clear - I don't even use cannabis. It's the [moral] principal at stake.

Hi MarkTheGnostic,

I have thought highly of Piaget since first reading him 43 years ago. I also would agree that I could not deal with a person operating on such a low level as conventional morality in an alchemical relationship. However, in an alchemical relationship the other person has to agree that behavior outside of various levels of conventional morality is allowed. It can't be imposed on them. The problem is that a person has to be positioned so as to transcend their previous range and understanding and often has to be stimulated to re-live rapes, murders (past life death traumas) and other unpleasant things in order to be able to release the traumas. This often involves state associated memory. Working a person through these things can be a challange for both participants. Absolute trust in your partner in this is essential. As the partners are tightly coupled together in this whatever happens will happen to both.

Voyager's Quatrain by EJ Gold

All phenonina is illusion.
Neither attracted nor repelled.
Not making any sudden moves.
My habits will carry me through.

III
10-08-2011, 07:25 PM
This whole question of "moral" developmenrt, and maybe "ethical" would be a better word, is important. In a partnered alchemy one gets very deeply into the other person. One is doing things that are against cultural norms in so many ways. First the whole premise of what we are doing is in the realm of the mystical and said to be impossible by science, religion and society at large. We expose our deepest selves to each other. We take down all our defense mechanisms. We perform what might be called psychodrama to expose and change ourselves. And then there is sex as well. And it is all done in a spiritual context. Each part of things would be subject to condemnation by one part of our society or another. And there are no possible "credentials" that mean anything. I'm a mystically inntiated priest but not trained or credentialed to be so. The only proof possible is that I can take a person or group mystically voyaging into sacred spaces and experiences. An outside observer would see nothing of it and say "bunkum". I don't even use a lot of props unless I with a group that desires a lot of props to set the mood. I'm not in it for the money and charge nothing at all. It's not at all about ego gratification on anybody's part. It has it's hazards to go deeply into the nightmares and hells of another to help bring them out. My partner and I engage is, as JR Haule puts it, "Indecent Practices", all for a spiritual purpose. There are lot's easier ways to engage in sex if that is what a person is after. We aren't married but couldn't be more deeply committed to each other. We both understand the risks we take. That is essential. This isn't "let the good times roll". We work with things, traumas and the like, that have shaped our whole lives. Changes have to be carefully planned and carried out more with a scalpal than a meat cleaver. The goal is not an "ordinary" life. An ordinary life blocks out all of the metaphysical and spiritual. Being healthier, physically and psychologically, being happier have been a result but wasn't the goal per se. A person can't possibly know what they are getting into in this until it happens and yet they have to be warned and even scared off if possible. A person who can be scared off is too full of fears to be relatively safe in this work. Once fully and genuinely started this work is dangerous to try to stop. And yet becasue it is impossible to know the real scope until deeply into it, informed consent isn't really possible. If a person does run off after getting started, and some do in the early stages, the other person is absolutely going to be "blamed" for what ever the other person is unhappy about which is usually opeing up a can of worms that were closed off for "a good reason". Traditionally there is a 2 year "trial" period before catalizing the person which is when it gets serious. All this moving slowly towards first Alchemical Marriage within each person and then"Alchemical Union" which results are unknowable until achieved. As everything happens on the fly one works by successive approximation rather than one great leap. Be very clear obout ones own motives and that of one's partner. Anything done from petty ego will cause no end of trouble. Don't rush things. Expectations are a bitch.

III
10-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Now to the question as to "WHY SEXUAL MEANS". The simplest answer I can give is because it provides direct access to the energies - frequencies needed for spiritual alchemy. As it is very direct, it takes one directly to the blockages and triggers, results come as rapidly as the things blocking them can be dealt with. If they are not dealt with on pace things build up and can go bad fast. A person needs to be prepared before starting and non-suitable persons need to be weeded out before they get to the point they can get in real trouble.

Many are teaching "sacred sex" which has little to do with tantric alchemy. The honest ones warn that mystical experiences might start up.

This is not about rote learned techniques. Neurology from person to person is similar but not identical so learning is individually responsive. While there may be 20+ or so distinct energy access points in the entirety of the yoni or lingam, and certain of them are readily apparent, others are more subtle and are only apparent after others have already been activated, a sequence. So to do the seven (9-10) stages (states) of orgasm as defined in Taoist literature, while the literature can suggest the sequences and define them in a general way, the exact sequence varies from time to time and even vary according to what one's starting point is each time. The reason I say seven (9-10) stages (states) is because there are some variations in descriptions and quite probably in the experiences. There are also some disagreements as to whether one or more of the additionally described items are part of the sequence itself or a completely different thing. Focusing on the induction methods too much will prevent the induction itself, like following the words instead of doing the instructions contained in the words. Even describing the results as stages or states of "orgasm" might be disputed. Science is at the point of having demostrated the vagus nerve orgasm(s) but not in describing it or how it is different from the pudendal nerve orgasm(s). So in a sense this is more "chakra" work, working with specific chakra channels (petals) no matter which way the various chakras are mapped; as 1, 7 or 10 main chakras. The mapping is a virtual construct of the energies that can be felt and worked with.

So don't confuse theory with pragmatic matters.

MarkostheGnostic
10-28-2011, 01:04 AM
Thanks for responding III! It's probably a good thing that I'm a Hypnotherapist for 22 years now, and can help my Lady if need be. As for myself, 8 years of Jungian analysis and 40 years of psychedelic psychotherapy has pretty much illuminated all of my complexes and neuroses. My constitutional anxiety has improved markedly. Once plagued by personal 'flaws,' I have come to see my own small imperfections as necessary for growth and development.

III
10-28-2011, 05:33 AM
Thanks for responding III! It's probably a good thing that I'm a Hypnotherapist for 22 years now, and can help my Lady if need be. As for myself, 8 years of Jungian analysis and 40 years of psychedelic psychotherapy has pretty much illuminated all of my complexes and neuroses. My constitutional anxiety has improved markedly. Once plagued by personal 'flaws,' I have come to see my own small imperfections as necessary for growth and development.

Hi MarkostheGnostic,

So you would find much of what I say familiar. J.R.HAULE is a Jungian Analyst who has pursued tantric alchemy.

As an analyst/programmer the phrase "last bug" is a joke and oxymoron. The deeper one looks the more small "imperfections" show up. Good luck.. Have fun.

III
12-07-2011, 08:41 PM
Some interesting fMRI research is well on the way to verifying the (7-10) stages of orgasm taught in Taoist sexual alchemy. What they have verified is that stimulation to orgasm of the clitoris, the g-spot and the cervix trigger, each separately, lights up a differnt areas of the brain during stimulation and orgasm. Also, in women but not yet verified in men is that the nipples cross-map to the genital areas as well as to the chest area. One of the male researchers made one of those "duh" statements, "No wonder women describe each of these differently". This has not been repeated with women with spinal cord injury so the vagus nerve orgasm hasn't been separately specifically mapped with the fMRI but that will come in the future I'm sure. At long last those who have their understanding of female orgasm stuck back in the 19th century theories of vaginal vs clitoral orgasm as the only two possiblities and only one really exists so the arguments go, can now consider the new science on it to further their understanding and give up on a 100+ year old idea that was never correct in the first place.

As this lights up functionally, it is presumably subject to neuron and axion growth and enhancement through usage by learning the skills and meditations like any other skill learned affects the brain. I assure you, these skills are much more fun to aquire than juggling for instance.

III
12-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Doing a sexual alchemy will change a persons relationship with their own body and functioning and those of others. First remember that "sex" in this is a broad definition. Tantric and Taoist methods involve sex, but even more, they involve the body as a whole in both the physical and the energy systems. The "blocks" to energy flows a person has are manifested in the body and affects the body. In a so-called "tantric massage" trigger points are worked with and released in the whole "taboo" area of the muscles of and around the whole pubic area which are typically off limits for most massage therapists. They also are not worked with in that way by sex workers becasue they are not arousing. A good tantric massage will often end in tears and emotional blocks released and memories recovered, not at all sexual. It also is about getting the energies flowing and unblocked. All of these aspects can be done in the entirely celebate forms. One of the things worked with is getting rid of fear, shame and taboo. One becomes "innocent". There was somthing I read posted on one of the subjects about being able to look upon the body without lustful reactions. In the family type nudist club that is exactly what goes on. Nudity becomes non lustful and innocent. Those who depend upon non-innocence for their sexual arousal will find that they have to learn how to re-structure their sexual responses. Learning the many energies of the vulva and linga, to be able to change the response to prayerful adoration, to be able to work with the specific chakra energies of the 3 additional Tibetan defined chakras broken out from the one "generative" chakra in the 7-chakra system. Can you picture the reaction in most America cities to have a parade of giant penis sculptures down the street once a year and houses decorated with paintings of erect penises as happens in Bhutan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus_paintings_in_Bhutan, http://www.galenfrysinger.com/bhutan_festival_penis_ceremony.htm

Popularized religion is one thing, alchemical practice something else. However, the attitudes change as the practice changes. One becomes involved with channeling Tantras, divine conversations represented as being between Shiva and Shakti or other divine pairings about esoteric and esoteric sexual matters. If a person is about getting lots of sex with all their fears, blockes and taboos remainig in place then sexual alchemy isn't for them. There are lots easier ways to have sex than alchemically. Further it becoems about erotic trance and mystical experiences including instruction via channeled tantras. This all is quite ego destroying which most people are not seeking in sex. In the end it becomes another way to KNOW THY SELF and to do voluntary evolution.

horticult
12-15-2011, 12:36 AM
wtf queer parade is not enough?!

III
12-15-2011, 01:10 AM
wtf queer parade is not enough?!

Hi Horticult,

Now that is a cryptic remark. What are you trying to say?

horticult
12-15-2011, 11:58 PM
Hi Horticult,

Now that is a cryptic remark. What are you trying to say?




Can you picture the reaction in most America cities to have a parade of giant penis sculptures down the street once a year


Everybody which will not be correctly happy with this should be jailed, lifetime!


OR cf. culture: penis parade v. queer parade...

Andro
12-16-2011, 12:10 AM
Hi Horticult,
Now that is a cryptic remark. What are you trying to say?

I certainly can't speak for him/her, but personally, I think it's really a cry for help, behind a rather transparent guise of pseudo-rebellious juvenile sarcasm.

I would even venture the possibility of a closet case... But what do I know...

III, you are well trained and experienced in assisting others with issues of internal blockages and repressed sexuality. Maybe you will be able to give him/her a few pointers...

Nibiru
12-16-2011, 02:35 AM
wtf queer parade is not enough?!

I thought we were approaching the year 2012, after reading this I fear I may be mistaken.

What's the date again??

III
12-16-2011, 04:48 AM
Everybody which will not be correctly happy with this should be jailed, lifetime!


OR cf. culture: penis parade v. queer parade...


Everybody which will not be correctly happy with this should be jailed, lifetime!

So we are dealing with English as a third language?

OR cf. culture: penis parade v. queer parade...

OR - Logical "OR"? otherwise why capitalize?

"cf. culture" - what does that mean?

penis parade v(ersus)? (ersion)? queer parade - Again I have no idea what you intend to mean in this. A penis parade in the USA would be kind of strange, I admit, and could certainly be perceived as peculiar. But I don't really know what you mean.

You appear to be using some kind of shorthand or something or really scrambled language.

Please try to say it again using standard English syntax and grammer. Don't be so cryptic.

III
12-16-2011, 05:08 AM
I thought we were approaching the year 2012, after reading this I fear I may be mistaken.

What's the date again??

We are only a little more than a year away from my 65th birthday on Dec 21, 2012. What's to fret? It will happen right on schedule. Whether we all transition to "THE AGE OF TRUE MAN" or not is a more difficult call. Even if it actually happens I'm not sure that anybody will notice, or at least remember, the next day. However, there is a manditory Grand Marnier toast at 11:50 pm CST that day for my birthday. Between now and then lots of people will be splatterring their shit all over because of their fears they are trying to hold at bay.

Nibiru
12-16-2011, 06:29 AM
We are only a little more than a year away from my 65th birthday on Dec 21, 2012. What's to fret? It will happen right on schedule. Whether we all transition to "THE AGE OF TRUE MAN" or not is a more difficult call. Even if it actually happens I'm not sure that anybody will notice, or at least remember, the next day. However, there is a manditory Grand Marnier toast at 11:50 pm CST that day for my birthday. Between now and then lots of people will be splatterring their shit all over because of their fears they are trying to hold at bay.
Hello :) Its not the potential coming shift that I fear, only the lack of evolution that some still seem to be displaying even in these times of great diversity and change. Perhaps an awakening will be truly that, and this reality will only exist in our memories in the form of a fleeting dream. Is this what you mean by saying that nobody may even notice or remember? Grand Marnier is pretty tasty on the rocks, perhaps I'll join you in your toast from here in Illinois :)

III
12-16-2011, 07:45 AM
Hello :) Its not the potential coming shift that I fear, only the lack of evolution that some still seem to be displaying even in these times of great diversity and change. Perhaps an awakening will be truly that, and this reality will only exist in our memories in the form of a fleeting dream. Is this what you mean by saying that nobody may even notice or remember? Grand Marnier is pretty tasty on the rocks, perhaps I'll join you in your toast from here in Illinois :)

Hi Nibiru,

Perhaps an awakening will be truly that, and this reality will only exist in our memories in the form of a fleeting dream. Is this what you mean by saying that nobody may even notice or remember?

On the morning of July 6th, 1996 about 7:00 am EDT there was a major world shift. It was confirmed to me by people, spontaneously on their part without any prompting, around the country later that day. Do you remember noticing that? There have been several other smaller shifts since then that were also confirmed to me by a number of people. There certainly could have been others I wasn't aware of at the time. The 07/06/96 event was the largest one I have ever been aware of. It was the second shoe, so to speak, of something that had started several years before. It's the only one I remember the precise date and time of as it was that memorable.

The shift that occurred at that time is what is pushing people towards waking up and causing so many highly distressed responses from so many people as they try to defend their waking-sleep dreams.

As very few people noticed it and even fewer remember it, I honestly wonder how many will notice and/or remember any shift that may occur at some other time. Most folks have no model of interpretation to such reality shifts. Even if the notice "something" they likely will have no understanding of what occurred and label to pin on it for memory.

On a shift like this, when it changes "It has ALWAYS been like this". If it isn't noticed as it is happening the differences fade from view within a minute or two and even our memories tell us "It has ALWAYS been like this". There is no remembered dream of how it used to be since it has always been this way. Dealing with changes in eternity are difficult linguistically. In OOM speak, when the base class itself is changed, when we go and remember it using that base class it will tell us that it has always been as it is now. I can't remember what it was previously like. All I can remember is what I noticed and told myself in that instant about the change.

So I would be willing to bet that so very few will remember that they ever lived outside of "the age of true man" if indeed that shift occurs. "The kingdom is at hand". At best they might remember that they were not always quite as clear on things as they are now but not sure why.

Nibiru
12-16-2011, 08:55 AM
On a shift like this, when it changes "It has ALWAYS been like this". If it isn't noticed as it is happening the differences fade from view within a minute or two and even our memories tell us "It has ALWAYS been like this". There is no remembered dream of how it used to be since it has always been this way. Dealing with changes in eternity are difficult linguistically. In OOM speak, when the base class itself is changed, when we go and remember it using that base class it will tell us that it has always been as it is now. I can't remember what it was previously like. All I can remember is what I noticed and told myself in that instant about the change.

Ok thank you, so these shifts are less like a dream and perhaps more closely related to the theories of time-travel and parallel dimensions. In this analogy the majority of the population's reality would be instantly changed without their knowledge at the moment of the shift/time-travelers manipulation of reality, and only the awakened/time-travelers would be aware of now nonexistent "past". Each shift would be like a transition to a parallel universe or dimension that exists on a slightly higher vibration. Is this more along the lines of what you are explaining?

Albion
12-16-2011, 11:03 AM
On the morning of July 6th, 1996 about 7:00 am EDT there was a major world shift. It was confirmed to me by people, spontaneously on their part without any prompting, around the country later that day. Do you remember noticing that? There have been several other smaller shifts since then that were also confirmed to me by a number of people. There certainly could have been others I wasn't aware of at the time. The 07/06/96 event was the largest one I have ever been aware of. It was the second shoe, so to speak, of something that had started several years before. It's the only one I remember the precise date and time of as it was that memorable.


“The physical constants of our reality are now changing. Just as at the dawn of the Time Gate Alpha (1996), scientists discovered that the gravitational constant was no longer constant (as we have cited since that time. See it on our youtube “The Great Time Gate 2012” film series).

That is: the gravitational constant in which our 3D reality and universe was previously “grounded”, was measured to not only be constantly different, but it was also different when measured from diverse laboratories at the SAME TIME.

Welcome to hyperspace and hyper-time!!!”
__________________________________________________

http://www.slideshare.net/PureJoy2Exist/time-gate-2011-news

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=181589358539606

http://www.aton432hz.info/
__________________________________________________

Note: Posting of this material and these links does not constitute an endorsement of Ananda Bosman's writings in their entirety but is submitted for educational/information-connectivity purposes only.

III
12-16-2011, 10:29 PM
Ok thank you, so these shifts are less like a dream and perhaps more closely related to the theories of time-travel and parallel dimensions. In this analogy the majority of the population's reality would be instantly changed without their knowledge at the moment of the shift/time-travelers manipulation of reality, and only the awakened/time-travelers would be aware of now nonexistent "past". Each shift would be like a transition to a parallel universe or dimension that exists on a slightly higher vibration. Is this more along the lines of what you are explaining?

Hi Nibiru,

In this analogy the majority of the population's reality would be instantly changed without their knowledge at the moment of the shift/time-travelers manipulation of reality, and only the awakened/time-travelers would be aware of now nonexistent "past".

YES!!!

On several occasions I also had the experience of things around me morphing into the changed world as in the movie FREQUENCY when the man's father suddenly had survived. That involved special circumstances in that I was in a well lit room with my eyes open when the change was triggered but I was still "outside" of it as it happened. I had that experience once with 3 of us all experiencing the change at the same time. That was in August of 2002. Again, during the next couple of days several people who had also noticed and confirmed the change to us, each saying the same thing. To have 3 or 4 people say the same confirming thing following the change, a statement that has NEVER been made to any of us before or since is quite interesting. The statement was "Remember, it's no longer binary here". I have also had the experience of opening my eyes and finding myself in a completely unexpected place; my basement office in the house that had been sold years before after losing a lawsuit. The information I carried back was to settle the lawsuit immediately which caused the house to be sold several years later when I got divorced.

On one occasion I was being recruited for a trip to the deep past along the "breath of brahma" time axis (cycles of creation). I was objecting that things were going so well with my beloved wife I didn't want to risk that. I was shown that if I didn't go I still wouldn't get to keep what I had. I was shown/experienced that she was going to be diagnosed with breast cancer and die. I went. When I got back the world was quite different and we were both complete strangers to each other, our relationship was trashed and we ended up divorced after a while. She wondered why I cam back so different from Comdex. As EJ Gold says in relation to voyagers, always treat all people and relationships with integrity without trying to impose a different reality on people.

The BUTTERFLY EFFECT is an excellent cautionary tale.

I know this sounds very strange but that's the way it goes. I've lived a very strange life. This could a be a cautionary note. Be careful what you ask for.

Nibiru
12-17-2011, 08:35 AM
Thanks for explaining this to me! Strange you mention the butterfly effect because I had originally included it as an example in my last post, but deleted it at the last minute. I had never hear of EJ Gold before your mention, but his work does seem quite interesting to say the least :) I wonder under what principles his "beta-blockers" would work?

III
12-18-2011, 09:17 PM
Thanks for explaining this to me! Strange you mention the butterfly effect because I had originally included it as an example in my last post, but deleted it at the last minute. I had never hear of EJ Gold before your mention, but his work does seem quite interesting to say the least :) I wonder under what principles his "beta-blockers" would work?

Hi Nibiru,

I can't say for sure how well the Beta Blockers work. I haven't used them yet. My daughter was wearing hers when she was killed earlier this year. We were able to make contact with her easily about 2 hours after her death. She had an easy transition. I was able to remember her death experience with her quite easily. Some of those using it are using it to aid in going around and finding and collecting their cut off segments of consciousness which is what I and my friends have been doing for years. This practice EJ and frends have been doing for years. The Beta Blocker is a tool that is supposed to make these and other practices easier. I would likely still be stuck at the bottom of a well, so to speak, without EJ's and friends help. They helped me re-awaken in this life and continue my work. His books and workshops also helped fill in the blanks and directly lead to my current understanding and practice and putting the pieces together that I had been collecting for a long time. Generally speaking I consider the information and tools he provides as the best available, but they don't speak to everybody. He has a profound understanding of the situation of this world and is good at helping people understand it and teaches METHODS of attention training.

A most excellent book is LIFE IN THE LABRYNTH by EJ Gold. It is a major eye opener for those who get what he is saying. Others will find it quite unreadable and maybe sheer nonsense.

III
12-20-2011, 11:15 PM
The is a rather strange movie called THE QUIET EARTH. The whole world makes some sort of transition and only those dead at the moment of transition wake up in the new world with only a few people. This is much as we have been discussing about those few who observe these kinds of world shifts right here in our world. That these kinds of shifts occur and thart some people can observe them and can wake up in them even art differnt times etc, would appear to make this world an actual physical world as is generally believed seeem rather difficult to believe. I have had way too many experiences that I remember to think that this is anything but a non-physical world with the illusion of physicallity. Many metaphysical systems have all agreed that this world is an "illusion" or "dream" or "virtual holodeck" or "creation" or "kingdom" or something of the sort. I find it impossible to disagree with that. So where is "here"?

vapor
12-22-2011, 04:39 AM
The Quiet Earth - full movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D_aM7cdRts

consensus reality seems to claim that the 'world' is a physical place . . . . this is what we are taught . . . .
the magical/alchemical cosmology (opinion) is that the eternal spirit (Hermes) is 'real' and all else is a 'temporal illusion' ....
the alchemist 'decompiles' the physical world by believing that it is an 'illusion' . . . . an adventure of becoming . . . and liberation .

Nibiru
12-22-2011, 07:22 PM
Thanks for all of the information III :) I decided to order Gold's "The American Book of the Dead". I have read the Tibetan version, and I'm interested to see how Gold's edition compares. When I was a child I used to ponder the question of when I went to "sleep" and began to dream, if in reality I was truly waking-up..

Andro
08-04-2012, 12:03 PM
An angle on Sexual Alchemy:

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/MindSex.jpg

Avatar
08-25-2012, 09:03 PM
I have experianced sexual transmutation. Quiet a few times in my life ironically. Once as a child by natures blessing. Once as a teen accedently. And 3 times since then. First two were very strong. Last 3 were weaklings.
Sexual transmutation can only be done while in a semi permanent Condition.
in this condition, you have no lust. 99 percent listless. Even if a naked woman sits on your lap. You will not twitch. Nor will you desire the woman.for lust is so far gone,woman no longer holds any sort of physical attraction. " I am attracted to woman's" correct the context as needed.

Now. When you do manage to get a hard on. "Excuse crude language please"
When you do manage it. Create the sexual fluid. It will vanished as soon as it comes. If you force yourself to ejaculate,the spasmatic muscle will go off. No fluid will be lost.
This is testimony of the streangth of the condition. Ejaculation reverses the condition.

With transmutation. The body turns solid red. One feels refreshed like never before. Euphoria is had for a time. After euphoria ones vitality on all levels has increased.

Avatar
08-25-2012, 09:18 PM
You will dream dreams like never before. Dreams are as lucid as real life. For you go into the dream awake. And you are aware when leaving the dream. You will not feel tired. I often went to bed without any lethergy. And awoke refreshed without any groggyness. The body's sweat becomes sweet smelling. During the night I would listen to music. I would have indescribable bliss. I would laugh and laugh because of how happy I felt. It was like being stuffed with happyness. My mind worked for me as well. I would need a synonym and bam! Memory increased. I have perfect vision by Dr standards. Yet still my vision increased. I would hear music in my hears playing upon awakening from sleep. Etc etc etc.

This is the tip of the ice Berg. After a month. I ejaculated till all extra vitality left. And although I was left permanently changes. I no longer bathe in the spirit of life. It was like descending from paradise. And those are the correct words to describe it. This condition washes away all inhibitions,addictions,desires. It is not that you have no desires,it is that all things become a choice. It was true freedom from the world. All my actions were a choice. And as soon as a inhibitions for example arose in me. It would be washed clean.
The Chinese had their philosophy right when they said. Transmute king into Chi into Chen. When complete you will not lust hunger nor sleep. They also said your blood would be white. But I cannot give any testimony of that. :p its just interesting.

Anyways. 6 years later. The "condition" is still unknown to me. Though I have a hunch. I have been being lazy though. I have not tested my new theory. Busy busy. Although my new theory makes a lot of sense. Its considered a medically dangerous condition. Ironically. I have come to find out the medically community is not as intelligent as they would like you to believe. Anyway. Apologies for the long post. Just thought I would introduce myself. :)

theFool
08-26-2012, 12:41 PM
Welcome Avaar186, I will agree (by experience) with most of the stuff you say here, this kind of transmutation has great potential.



Now. When you do manage to get a hard on. "Excuse crude language please"
When you do manage it. Create the sexual fluid. It will vanished as soon as it comes. If you force yourself to ejaculate,the spasmatic muscle will go off. No fluid will be lost.
This is testimony of the streangth of the condition. Ejaculation reverses the condition.


Could you please elaborate more on your method? Do you use the method of clenching the pelvic and buttocks muscles? Or what you experienced was something spontaneous and intuitive which you cannot replicate again.



I have experianced sexual transmutation. Quiet a few times in my life ironically. Once as a child by natures blessing. Once as a teen accedently. And 3 times since then. First two were very strong. Last 3 were weaklings.
As we grow older, there is always less "life force" left to transmute. That is why we need to use external "medicines" in order to restore that force to its original condition, like when we were teens. Then, we can perform sexual transmutation and transform ching to shen, instead of dissipating our ching away and coming closer to death.

Avatar
08-26-2012, 01:59 PM
I'm lovin this forum right now.
I agree. With age. To rejuvinate the sexual energy. Medicine can be had. I would suggest creation of fluid. But stopping before orgasm. In my previouse practise. Creation of fluid without sublimination increased sexual energy.

Sexual sublimination is done through a condition. When the condition is met. You don't need to hold the buttocks. Not even the physical spasms of the PC muscle can make the fluid fall. This is personal testimony.

The first time I masterbated as a child I experianced sexual sublimination. At the age of 17 I intuitively created the condition.
I've replicated the condition 3 or 4 times since then. But it was a fluke each time "improper method".

The condition is created through breathing. I theorize the condition is created through controlled hyperventilation. The condition being stabslized respiratory alkalosis.
the odd thing is. The way I do controlled hyperventilation. Hypoxia never occurred. Their is no dizzyness.no blacking out.no shortness of breath. Their is only a painless parasethia "spelt wrong" (painless pins and needles). The need to breath also lowered due to decreased co2. Its good for heart burn as well :p.

Anyway. I have not been able to test my theory yet. As respiratory alkalosis takes consistency to stabalize. After it is stabalized. You must realize the kidneys are always 3 days behind in their reaction. I can tell you now. That during my transformations and after them, I had respiratory alkalosis. This I have come to know,if it was the catalyst I do not know yet. Yet it did go away with ejaculation of fluid. I am busy busy person. Give me some time to test my theory.

Realize in the condition I speak of. You will have ever decreasing sexual lust. To the point of loosing your attraction to woman. As well. The urinary waters will press upwards. Great relaxation is needed to pee. The slightest muscle twitch/tension,sends the urine completely back into the bladder. Both of these ^ occurs as the condition manifests with streangth.

Avatar
08-26-2012, 02:12 PM
In short. My method is ALL about.creating the condition. For when the condition is present. Man does nothing,but lend nature a helping hand. "Pun intended"
literally. If one was to know the method of creating the condition. He could infinitely transmute himself. "I'm not sure if their is a limit to how much it can be done. But I did it 3 times back to back,as the streangth of my condition allowed. And the intensity was enough to keep me searching for 6 1/2 years. Every day. I have made it my obsession,in this way its only a matter of time. But still. I can't imagine what to transformations would be like....at the hight. Blood is rumored to literally turn white. So ya.

Avatar
09-08-2012, 10:09 PM
I have just started.
Had inspiration concerning the external work with apparatuses.
Had to wait.
Day one. 100 breaths an hour. I skip an hour when I eat food.
And I do smoke cigarettes for now.
It takes 3 days for the kidneys to be effected by any levels of respiratory alkalosis. Not too mention it takes time to develop respiratory alkalosis. I have done 600 breaths today. That's counting inhail and exhail seperatly. Just an update.

Avatar
10-07-2012, 07:01 AM
I apologize for the Delayed update. I had to stop my practice. I Took time to quit smoking as this was affecting results.
I now no longer smoke. I will give an in depth update on my practice when one is ready. I have not forgotten bout ya ;)

III
10-09-2012, 08:13 PM
I consider the phrase "bypass ejaculation" rather than supressing it to be a more effective way of looking at it.

In (stopping - bypassing - supressing - ????) ejaculation there are several ways of doing so and there are different effects and effectiveness. Consider that if the "energy" goes through ejaculation, biochemical changes cause the end of "orgasm" and loss of erection with a refractory period. There is the "clenching" method that can cause severe sudden onset severe headaches as well as supressing the very energies one might want to run with otherwise. There is also the "relaxation" method which is the opposite of clenching. If one can relax through the "orgasmic inevitability" the energy flows can get going and keep going without actual ejaculation. Without the ejaculation to shut it off, the "orgasmic" energies can keep flowing even for hours. There are approximately 20-30 or maybe more, discretely controllable energy flows that can be triggered by areas in the yoni and the linga. In the males some of these energies lead to ejaculation and some lead to arousal and orgasmic energies without ejaculation. That is a phsyiological wiring that allows multi hour intercourse with no effort at preventing ejaculation because it is never triggered. The erection and erotic arousal can be completely in the control of the Goddess communion through one's partner. The HOW to do that is perhaps one of the things that I have never seen written about. However, the choice to use the energies for conscious sex rather than ejaculation is the choice of a different pathway, not of "supressing" ejaculation.

When working with a partner, there is a choice to be made at the beginning of sexual activity, towards conscious sex and the ecstasy of the invocation of living god(dess) communion OR towards the more usual ejaculatory or unusual orgasmic pathways. Alchemy inludes all of it in various ways and sequences for different stages. As E.J. Gold says that keeping ones focused attention free from distraction is difficult in a macrodimensional labyrinth that is composed entirely of distractions. And the flow of divine LOVE as orgasm seeming energies and ecstasy are perhaps the ultimate distractions to the intake of information that is their very form. A microwave device can be used to carry lots of information or heat the your tea. As Shakitpat can occur if the person is receptive then that would trigger an Alchemical sequence in which one grows and evolves using the Shaktipat as information and energy. They each and both have their place. I'm not speaking from theory at all but entirely from pragmatic experiences arranged within a matrix appearing to fit a theory.

One thing that Lee Lozowick cautions is to not lose the erotic passion of Tantra in the search for technical knowledge. In any case, have fun.


.

III
10-21-2013, 02:40 AM
Let's take a look back at a possible sexual alchemy practiced long ago in Egypt. One of the things that suggests that is the blue lotus in the art of the period and the apparent continuous usage through the Roman empire period One of it's contents has Viagra like characteristics including some relief of neurological pain without headaches as well as enhancing sexual sensations and promotes lots of erectile tissue erection in men and women and enhanced production of the "3 medicines" in women. It has mild psychoactive characteristics that are enhanced with incense base (hash) and a new world item, Damiana. Combined with Damiana. I have never experienced anything else with such aphrodisiac qualities that lasts for hours allowing extended intercourse very easily. The spiritual-mystical experiences we have had have been quite amazing and we are still learning. It's one drawback is a bitter aftertaste but other flavors can help, like vanilla.

I find it difficult to think that they used blue lotus extracted in wine (yes, works better than a tea), and had no clue to the sexual-spiritual-alchemical effects. I think that this is an excellent addition to the various tools of tantric alchemy.