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Avatar
11-25-2010, 09:35 PM
all elements exist in the body.
We are constantly separating these elements threw sex.
Sexual sublimation is the key to immortality.
Looking this up on the net, will throw you into horroid traps and pitfalls of delusional people.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Sexual sublimation, is the raising of sexual fluid, upwards, into the bladder, and into the kidneys, "possibly into the blood from their, but that part I do not know for sure.

Vajroli is the traditional method if learning this, a silver tube used for silver is anti bacterial.
What makes this process hard, is the bladder is a one way door.
Man must go in threw the out door.

I am speaking of this process through experience.
I accedently experience it, realized I has experienced it once more when I was ten.
It was all on accident, I spent 5 years researching and practicing, i have avoided the traditional vajroli method, but i am avout to begin it, as 100 percent subliminstion has not been reached.
it is very secret practise for it can be used for harm.
a man can suck up the fluid of a women, can literally suck the life force out it is said, make her bleed and kill her, these people are considered demons, and will still have power and very very long life.
I see the superior way as transmuting your own fluid.

This practise is taught in buddhism, is mentioned and taught in tao/daoism.
And is a sadahana of Hinduism and tantrics.
Ps. The dantian, the lower crucible mentioned by the Chinese, is the bladder ;)
I'll start the thread with this.

Seth-Ra
11-26-2010, 12:18 AM
a man can suck up the fluid of a women, can literally suck the life force out it is said, make her bleed and kill her, these people are considered demons, and will still have power and very very long life.

Vampire. ;)



~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
11-26-2010, 12:31 AM
According to Castaneda, any sex with a woman leaves a man's "energetic threads" in her
which feed off of her energy for 7 years, unless she can "magically" expel them.
A woman's power is centered in her womb.


Avaar, so this is raising actual semen and not a subtler energy associated with it?
Hmmm.

Ah, I just read the brief wikipedia article. According to that, it is not the actual semen.

horticult
11-26-2010, 01:24 AM
bs
masters agree that even the stone is not 4 immortality & u dare 2 state that the negation of life principle leads 2 eternity rofl

Avatar
11-26-2010, 09:35 AM
The negation of life principle? Is not the ejaculation of semen the negation of life principle unless used to make babys? Even then you mist take of your own life principle to make another.

As well the " stone"
The body would be the stone in this perticular work ;)
The semen is simply an element.
This work, is the circulation of internal elements.

now!
Immortality happens, as the body is purified and refined.
The spirit becomes immortal first, the primal spirit and conciouse spirit unite in an upwards fashion, thus When you die, they leave together.
the body becomes immortal with further and further working on the same principle.

Chinese internal alchemy.

Jing into chi/qi, and chi/qi into Shen.

What masters of internal alchemy do you speak of?

Avatar
11-26-2010, 09:48 AM
Yes actual semen, first the flow will start, then heat will be sucked up, then you can reach such a strength that not even the Ejaculatory muscle can make you spill semen, as the upwards suction is greater.

Ha! If wikipedia was correct we'd all be ballin.
Wikipedia probably also suggests the " microcosmic orbit" technique, which if done efficiently will creat such a heat, that you will internally fry your Brian, and become a vegitable.
These people also believe semen ascends up the spine.....their is no damn anatomical way for semen to travel up the spine.
These people just aren't being smart, they are believing in fancifull things.
not results.
as well they all disregard vajroli as " vulgar" which it is, but it has it's purpose which is specific. To teach one to " go in through the out door"

solomon levi
11-26-2010, 02:56 PM
Greetings Avaar.

"The term itself means to transform the crude sexual energy into a carrier of spiritual essence. Different schools that describe this energy as vital energy, vital winds (prana), spiritual energy, ojas, shakti, tummo, or kundalini." - wikipedia

I'm familiar with sublimating the subtle energy associated with semen, as i think the above indicates, but not actual semen.
Something I'll have to consider. :)

Avatar
11-26-2010, 11:09 PM
Prana is chi and is associated with breath.
Breath in a certain way, and the whole Nervouse system fires rapidly.
Feels like the whole body's vibrating.
Then creat sexual fluid, the fluid will coagulate clear.
More seminal fluid than semen, this is good as seminal fluid carries the energy, it also connects heat to the body.
IE redness.
Tummo is heat.
Ojas is Shen, or the existence of the energy in the head.
Everything is shakti.

Semen and sexual energy, has only 3 channels. The seminal vessal going from gonads to penis,the penis tube leadin out, and the urinary connecting to bladder and kidneys.
it is not coincidence that vajroli, the method connected to this, deals with the urinary track.
Sexual energy is located within this system. People want to take it out saying they can move it threw a different system.
The bladder is a way one door one must go back through.

I will start my practise with origanal and traditional vajroli soon, I will update my progress.
Sexual fluid is the epitome of sexual energy no?
But one must subliminate sexual energy before sexual fluid, one is light the other heavy.

the Dan tien, often known as the chi spot, is the bladder, this is a little known fact.
It is a crucible.

III
12-06-2010, 06:59 AM
all elements exist in the body.
We are constantly separating these elements threw sex.
Sexual sublimation is the key to immortality.
Looking this up on the net, will throw you into horroid traps and pitfalls of delusional people.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Sexual sublimation, is the raising of sexual fluid, upwards, into the bladder, and into the kidneys, "possibly into the blood from their, but that part I do not know for sure.

Vajroli is the traditional method if learning this, a silver tube used for silver is anti bacterial.
What makes this process hard, is the bladder is a one way door.
Man must go in threw the out door.

I am speaking of this process through experience.
I accedently experience it, realized I has experienced it once more when I was ten.
It was all on accident, I spent 5 years researching and practicing, i have avoided the traditional vajroli method, but i am avout to begin it, as 100 percent subliminstion has not been reached.
it is very secret practise for it can be used for harm.
a man can suck up the fluid of a women, can literally suck the life force out it is said, make her bleed and kill her, these people are considered demons, and will still have power and very very long life.
I see the superior way as transmuting your own fluid.

This practise is taught in buddhism, is mentioned and taught in tao/daoism.
And is a sadahana of Hinduism and tantrics.
Ps. The dantian, the lower crucible mentioned by the Chinese, is the bladder ;)
I'll start the thread with this.

Hi Avaar,

There sure are lots of ridiculous mythologies out there aren't there? While I know that many things can be done via intensive training there are also a lot of things that somehow NEVER actually happen as described nor can they. Some things just are not a matter of learning to control nerves.

a man can suck up the fluid of a women, can literally suck the life force out it is said, make her bleed and kill her,

I don't believe it even for a microsecond. I'm sure sex can get rough enough or dry enough to cause bleeding. Even a little stubble can cause bleeding (experience). Sucking the life force by sucking it up it up with fliuids into the bladder, that is such a load of male bovine manure I find it totally impossible to believe. It sounds like a cautionary tale and quite mythological. And of course monthly bleeding can be provoked by strong uterine contractions if it is about to happen anyway.. So how many pounds per square inch of suction are we speaking to cause bleeding purely by the suction? I don't believe it for one microsecond. The epithelial tissue, such as lining the vagina can be raised into a small blood blister by sufficient suction I'm quite sure. "Cupping" will cause fluid blisters on the epidermis. It takes a lot more suction to pull up a blood blister. So what do you think, that you can develop negative 15 pounds of pressure via the bladder for the entire vagina? You would be spouting blood out the penis with enough suction to cause a pinppoint blood blister in the vagina. If the urethra isn't firmly against a piece of tissue you are talking about pulling a fair vacuum on something with equal or larger volume than the bladder.when the bladder is full. When it is empty, especially with negative pressure it would have essentially zero volume. It doesn't have the muscles to hold shape in those circumstances. The kidneys would be spouting blood if you pull enough vacumm on them. Where does all the air and fluid go as they are sucked up? Into a wormhole? Now have you ever been given a hickey or given one? That is just a little blood being pulled into the tissue over a very small area. Now how much more vacuum must be pulled to develop active bleeding through intact epithelial tissue?

Some persons are known to be triggered into seizures with intense orgasm. They also may loose sphincter control. That can happen with neurological disruption. In traditionally b12 deficient countries (vegetarian) loss of urinary and fecal continence is quite common.

Sexual sublimation is the key to immortality.

I think there may be confusion here. NO BODY is IMMORTAL. "Immortal" is quite literally "without death". While the traditional benefit is "eternal life" that is an entirely different thing from "immortal" life and has nothing at all to do with life expectancy.. So you think you want "eternal life"? I would advise you to understand the stakes you are playing for.. "Immortal" is non-existent. Eternal life is possible but likely isn't at all what you would imagine. No form of "sublimation" or anything else is a key to immortality as there is no immortality. "Eternal" life is the traditional pursuit of Alchemists, and while I can't vouch for any other forms of Alchemy other than what I am familiar with, it is attainable but again not with any definition of sublimation with which I am familiar. Certain sexually activated energies may be involved with the attainment of "eternal" life but I am not sure that they are necessary for that and there are celibate forms of working with those energies. I trust Ramakrishna's and Vivekananda's statements on that rather than fantastical stories.

I know I included a quote saying some of this from Haule quoting another source who himself was reporting hearsay. That doesn't make it real.

http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet01.html - The Real and the Unreal in Sex and Spirituality
It is one thing to imagine that a woman can gain sufficient control over her vaginal muscles as to "milk" her consort's penis. But the notion that a man can gain such power over his urethra as to reverse the orgasmic spasm reflex and deliberately absorb vaginal secretions seems fantastic in the extreme. Many commentators have taken this position and dismissed the physiological claims of Tantric practitioners as absurd

Personally, I have heard all sorts of claims and nothing at all to back up the absurd. It's like any urban legend, from "a friend of a friend of a friend ...". And even if somebody occasionally can suck up a little water with lot's of training, that hardly is going to draw blood especially to the point of death..

You would be studying something real and useful, if you were to learn to help a woman experience the seven (nine) stages of orgasm and ride along with her on that via interpenetrated subtle bodies.

solomon levi
12-06-2010, 04:23 PM
I'll go in the middle somewhere.
Killing someone by sucking in fluids with your penis seems extreme (unrealistic);
but one can definitely learn to suck in fluids with the penis.

No, I haven't tried it. But it doesn't sound fantastic at all, and I've read about the practice of it.

III
12-06-2010, 07:51 PM
I'll go in the middle somewhere.
Killing someone by sucking in fluids with your penis seems extreme (unrealistic);
but one can definitely learn to suck in fluids with the penis.

No, I haven't tried it. But it doesn't sound fantastic at all, and I've read about the practice of it.

Hi Solomon,

Let me clarify what I see as possible, impossible, unlikely and so on. Learning unusual muscular control is definitely possible including volunterizing parts of the unconscious nervous systems. EJ Gold and others talk about the necessity of mastering "the body of motion" before other alchemical changes can take place. This can be done in all sorts of disciplines; skiing, dance, martial arts, rock climbing and even sucking water up into the penis. Some Fakirs often take the physical practice to extremes to the exclusion of mental and mystical practices. People can absorb energy from another, even across the room. When done in one way it is Shaktipat. Haule mentions that the various tantric practices can result in Shaktipat. I agree. The assumption that sucking liquid is required or part of receiving/exchanging energy doesn't fly in my experience or knowledge. Part of the perceived transfer can result from passive absorption of hormones and b12 from the fluids. For a vegetarian person with a serum cobalamin level below about 500pg/ml (2.5 micrograms of b12 total blood content) 1 additional mcg ready for absorption in Holotranscobalamin can raise the serum level 200pg/ml and make a very noticeable difference in some minutes to hour including the experience of possibly vast energization. Semen can contain up to 100x the b12 content per ml as blood serum based on it's very large transcobalamin level.

Sucking so hard with a penis as to extract a liter or two of blood causing death or even in starting blood to flow via suction I find totally impossible. Some of these stories have persisted in misogynistic sex magic practices such as that performed by Aleister Crowley. So he needed plenty of faceless women to suck dry of their energies for his aggrandizement. The woman isn't significant in his view, merely a source of energy.

I practice an Alchemy of LOVE with an equal. .It is fully cooperative, not extractive and exploitative. We are in no way limited by not attempting to practice the sucking of fluids with genitals. The mouth is sufficient for intake of generated fluids. I won't work from an exploitative set of assumptions, practices or views. Of course oral sex is not the taboo it once was, one punishable by imprisonment, torture and even death, so nobody is horrified to hear of sipping the fluids direct lips to lips from the yoni or lingam instead of possibly euphemistic stories explaining it a "legal" way.

I would draw a parallel to THE SERPENT AND THE RAINBOW and the making of zombie powder, where despite the highly detailed directions for about 100 ingredients and their procedures of preparation , there is only one active ingredient, puffer fish toxin. Lots of extraneous things accumulate as part of the lore over hundreds of years of oral traditions. Ayahuasca has two main active ingrediants, everything else either modifies the experience (tobacco) and/or flavor or is irrelevant. Each tribe has their own recipe and traditions about whether males or females, and whether to exclude menstruating females or not, or both prepare the two parts of the mix.

I am equally dubious about all sorts of practices written about in old Tamtric and alchemical writings wherein what is literally said is not meant to be taken literally but rather unlocked into real, and often illegal, or at least taboo, practices. Nobody admits oral sex when it can get you tortured, imprisoned or killed. More than 30 states still have laws against oral sex (sodomy technically) despite the Supreme court saying that such laws are unconstitutional. They are being held in reserve in case they ever become enforceable again.

As a matter of information, blowing into the vagina with any sort of pressure at all can cause ruptures of tissue, bleeding and even death.

III
12-07-2010, 01:01 AM
Hi Solomon,

A few more thoughts on the pragmatic natural limits to vaginal pressure changes. We have basically a piston in a cylinder that alternately undergoes a compression and then a decompression. When the vagina "tents" it opens up a much larger space. drops air pressure and sucks in air around the penis if present. Then upon the compressive phase as the penis is inserted further and the tented vagina contracts, air is forced out around the penis making a noise similar to intestinal gas forcing it's way put. This can happen on each stroke. So we know the max pressure is less than can be attained by blowing into the vagina which can cause an embolism and other damage because these noises are considered harmless. It's the same with negative pressures before the air is sucked in. The limit is lower than that which causes damage as again the whole process is harmless and normal and does not cause bleeding from suction. So perhaps we are speaking a compression ratio of 2:1 or something like that. If it were 10:1 or something like that a lot of heat would be released causing compression heating and pain. Nobody is mentioning self caused burns on vagina and penis. The old joke is "Do you smoke after sex"? Ans - "No I use a lubricant". That only applies to friction and would have no effect on compressive heating. So natural air confinement is quite limited as air easily leaks in and out with only modest changes in pressure. Damaging levels of suction can't happen because of such air leaks as is demonstrated to almost everybody from time to time.

Avatar
12-08-2010, 10:14 PM
Like I said.
That is what is " said "
if it were to be true, it would have to be through extreme continuoise loss of sexual fluid. And would have to be an extreme loss.

Now. these are simply claims I am not interested in.
more real is the karma of taking too much fluid from a women.
karma is simply, she eats beef, you don't, you suck up and absorb her fluid, now u are tainted with beef. Etc.

as for pressure, I only spoke of negative pressure.
if u were to squeeze a plastic water bottle, and put the cap on, then release. Their would be a suction.
negative pressure= suction

as far as I know, negative pressure is probly needed to suck up fluid.

so!
how about we shift to the transmutation of sexual fluid/energy into higher energy.

Vajroli is a topic we could talk about all day, but I would bet ten dollars none have practised it as I havnt yet. This makes us armchair philosophers on the subject. No practical application.

as well, immortality. I don't think their is a reason why it cannot happen.
what is the reason we die?
More Likley, what is the reason we age?
As death and aging are different.

III
12-10-2010, 08:13 AM
Like I said.
That is what is " said "
if it were to be true, it would have to be through extreme continuoise loss of sexual fluid. And would have to be an extreme loss.

Now. these are simply claims I am not interested in.
more real is the karma of taking too much fluid from a women.
karma is simply, she eats beef, you don't, you suck up and absorb her fluid, now u are tainted with beef. Etc.

as for pressure, I only spoke of negative pressure.
if u were to squeeze a plastic water bottle, and put the cap on, then release. Their would be a suction.
negative pressure= suction

as far as I know, negative pressure is probly needed to suck up fluid.

so!
how about we shift to the transmutation of sexual fluid/energy into higher energy.

Vajroli is a topic we could talk about all day, but I would bet ten dollars none have practised it as I havnt yet. This makes us armchair philosophers on the subject. No practical application.

as well, immortality. I don't think their is a reason why it cannot happen.
what is the reason we die?
More Likley, what is the reason we age?
As death and aging are different.

Avaar,

Hi Avaar,

Let's start with the simplest item.

as well, immortality. I don't think their is a reason why it cannot happen.

Let's take accident only mortality tables into consideration. Death by accident alone gives a life expectancy of about 1000 years. Larry Niven has explored this somewhat in his Known Universe stories. While a thousand or 10,000 years is a long time, it is no where near immortal. Let's go to the Mayan "age of true man" lasting 143 nonillion (after octillion) years. This is far longer than the physical existence of the sun or universe and ignored by most because the 4 billion year life of our planet makes it seem ridiculous. And yet, from an Eternal life point of view, quite possible. Mel Brooks and Carl Riener did the 2000 year old man as comedy. I don't think you will find any other 2000 year old man, or even 1000, or even 200. Bodies age and die. Even if they didn't age, they die of something. Find me an actual immortal human and I would have to reconsider. There are lots of reasons there are no immortal humans, amoebas and paramecium sure, but in this case, they are clones of the original. And they are strictly limited to the life of the earth and no single actual cell survives that long, just the clones of the clones of the clones of the clones... I wouldn't bet the bank on achieving immortality, of anybody achieving it.


what is the reason we die?
More Likley, what is the reason we age?
As death and aging are different.

There are endless reasons we die. What does death mean? Are you the body? Bodies die. One might say that the purpose of Alchemy is to evolve an "eternal soul". I remember dying; lot's of times. And every time I've died in quite a while, I eventually end up right back here in a variation of this life. It's GROUNDHOG DAY all over again. I remember dying in all sorts of car wrecks despite having a near perfect driving record in this surviving life. And these deaths have happened at all sorts of ages. It appears that part of the challenge is to learn to live the full lifespan of the body without premature death. There are lots of reasons we age. First there are simple biological facts like telemeres which when exhausted allow the cells to undergo faulty repair. There are nutritional and other problems. But let's look at metaphysical reasons. In my experience and opinion, people close off more and more possibilities of life through fears and blocks until they have no options left for continuing.

Somehow people think that there is only one ideal life for them and somehow they will spend eternity living that one perfect life with no changes. I would say that is terminally boring. How would you like to spend 100 billion years living exactly the same life over and over with no differences? How about 143,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of the identical life in the age of true man alone? Having memory of everything the same and never changing would be cruel. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Death allows one to start over with a fresh body.

as far as I know, negative pressure is probly needed to suck up fluid.

I would be inclined to think the same thing. And as demonstrated air leaks in before any significant negative pressure could occur, certainly before any liquid could be forcibly extracted and sucked up much less tissue ruptured and bleeding. Let's be real.

how about we shift to the transmutation of sexual fluid/energy into higher energy.

This whole explanation of "transmutation of sexual fluids/energy" came about based on a questionable set of assumptions, a lack of biological knowledge, desperation to explain how a despised set of activities could lead to incredible spiritual functioning and so much more. As EJ Gold has described it as "The normal person eats gold and converts it to shit. The alchemist eats shit and shits gold".

There are enough potent and valuable hormones and nutrients able to be directly absorbed through the mucous membranes from the fluids in the NORMAL course of things, including items that would be perceived as energy or energizing, and improve mood to account for the "absorbing and transmuting" hypothesis. The absorption is time based, the longer that the coupling lasts, the more contents of the fluids are absorbed. What transmutes are the persons "understanding" of the energies. The merging of the two subtle bodies, the energies of the two persons, allows certain cooperative activities to take place in the non-physical. If a person is not trained and practiced in opening up to these energies and blocks them instead, nothing much happens, sex as usual. When the two energies merge to the necessary extent at a high enough energy and including all the needed "frequencies", something happens, a synthesis. A third energy is synthesized, the "modem" frequency to/of the divine. I have from time to time called it "lasing", like a laser. Now if you are calling the synthesis, the resonance, transmutation I can see that. However, it is the creation of something different from the combination of the two energies, not a changing of those energies. It is the partners themselves who undergo transmutation.

Vajroli is a topic we could talk about all day, but I would bet ten dollars none have practised it as I havnt yet. This makes us armchair philosophers on the subject. No practical application.

Speak for yourself. You would loose your bet. You may be an armchair philosopher, I'm not. The reason I have a different explanation, a transmuted explanation, is that I have participated in it, experienced it and am attempting a pragmatic explanation consistent as possible with scientific biological knowledge. Science doesn't agree about the sharing of subtle bodies, of energies, yet. However, they have found a group of neurons that are designed to reflect the other person's emotional state and so it might be said that the empathic state is merely reflection of the other person using those neurons. And as we use those neurons, more of them grow and strengthen the experience. Perhaps this is the real transmutation. That would lead to a resonance of similar circuits hypothesis. I don't really care what the explanations are as those will change over and over as the person gains experience, knowledge and understanding.


http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet01.html - The Real and the Unreal in Sex and Spirituality
It is one thing to imagine that a woman can gain sufficient control over her vaginal muscles as to "milk" her consort's penis.

This is easy to describe with modern scientific knowledge. For now I'll just describe the ending state along with a few prerequisites. First assume that both partners have been practicing their Kegal exercises strengthening the PC and related muscles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise
Explanation

The aim of Kegel exercises is to improve muscle tone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_tone) by strengthening the pubococcygeus muscles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pubococcygeus_muscle) of the pelvic floor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_floor). Kegel is a popular prescribed exercise for pregnant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnant) women to prepare the pelvic floor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_floor) for physiological stresses of the later stages of pregnancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy) and vaginal childbirth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbirth). Kegel exercises are said to be good for treating vaginal prolapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaginal_prolapse)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-0) and preventing uterine prolapse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterine_prolapse)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-1) in women and for treating prostate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostate) pain and swelling resulting from benign prostatic hyperplasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_prostatic_hyperplasia)prostatitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostatitis) in men. Kegel exercises may be beneficial in treating urinary incontinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urinary_incontinence) in both men and women.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise#cite_note-2) Kegel exercises may also increase sexual gratification and aid in reducing premature ejaculation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation).

Another prerequisite is sufficient physical conditioning to be able to maintain a mix of vigor, some slow and some hard and fast, activities for 1-4 hours. In this game an hour is a real quickie. If your body can't stand up to the strain it won't work. Running out of energy, literally physically exhausted, puts a stop to everything.

OK, so now here you are in a crescendo of sexual arousal, going back and forth, leapfrog style with first one partner pushing it to the limit then the other building upon that. First one specific energy than another. There are positions in which a man virtually can't get the required specific stimulation to trigger an orgasm or ejaculation, but rather stimulus that increases arousal. There are in the man, just as the woman, multiple different energies that can be aroused in turn to keep the energies building to incredibly intense levels.So the g-spot is massaged slowly and intensely by the corona of the penis well past normal toleration of intensity. Then the massaging is switched to the deep cervical edge vagus nerve trigger point and that is massaged, with intensity but almost no movement, providing no skin stimulation to the penis but because of position the males vagus nerve trigger is. When both are feeling each other, not just "spasms" as the one quote says, but far far more, and in such a way so that the energies are now rising in concert, fully coupled, is when the final phase can happen.

Then the stimulation is focused towards the male vagus nerve arousal. This feels quite different than the spinal nerve trigger and is considerably more easily controllable. At this point the "outcome" is determined by who gets triggered into the vagus nerve orgasm first and what is done then. In the "female milking every drop" out of the male it isn't a matter of vaginal control at all. The vaginal muscles will be rippling at the same speed as the ejaculatory pulses. However, first the male gets triggered into the edge of vagus nerve orgasmic inevitability. This is held there in the rapidly ascending energy carrying the female upwards strongly until the female is uncontrollably triggered into her vagus nerve orgasm. The female partner moving very little, but in time with the muscle rippling starts to increase intensity on the male and then the vagus nerve orgasm starts building and traveling upwards. Finally the female partner stimulates the male to start the ejaculation but keeps the movement slow and timed with the muscle contractions. If this is done just right the male orgasm goes on and on and on and the ejaculatory phase keeps going and building for a fair number of minutes rather than the "normal" 10 or 15 seconds. Keeping it slow, and never having dulled the sensation to the head and frenulum with excessive stimulation there is no rebound to hypersensitive stopping things. Instead it is like the ejaculation is triggered over and over, not stopping until somebody runs out of steam, with both consciously together cooperating and riding the crescendo of the joint vagus nerve orgasm up and up. In the female this can be kept going for well over an hour by switching areas of stimulation every few minutes internally and including the external clitoris as well. It is during this mutual feedback that the joint energy "lases" and much mystical experience and shamanic voyaging occurs and may last some hours. It is nothing like ordinary sex. If the person is not adequately purified and prepared "freakouts" may occur when uncleared blocks and fears are hit with very high energy. Lots and lots of fluids are produced in this process by both male and female. Now others may describe it differently.

I don't consider this a contest as it takes skill and full cooperation to do for mutual alchemical benefit. It isn't easy and requires considerable practice. It is quite ecstatic and goes indescribably past ordinary orgasm so much so that it is quite different qualitatively. The intensity of the light can be quite extreme during this and the bodies continue on quite automatically as the joined minds go voyaging together. It is extraordinarily wondrous and has nothing at all to do with "sucking" up any fluids in any unusual ways whether some people have somehow trained themselves to do so or not and is in no way exploitive.
.
I'm not trying to hide behind ambiguities, legalities, euphemisms, exaggerations and vagueness. There is a lot more too it but since this came up here I took the opportunity to give a modern physiology description of this thing you appear intent to understand..

Good luck in your learning.

Avatar
12-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Don't think I am being disrespectful or anything, their is simply little information on such things out their, they are hidden in the right places sure, but it takes alot to find those places.

so!!
it seems what I have been trying to do, may simply be a sex flush.
an incredibly strong sex flush.
but! Then their was the question of how to creat a sex flush, as apparently it only happens in 25 percent of men.
Turns out controlled hyperventilation done by mimicking oxygen hunger " short exhail longer inhail"
creats heat, and causes a sex flush.
the breathing is not rapid, a moderate easy speed can creat hyperventilation.

a sex flush as I understand it, is a release of histamine?
I'm not sure of the importance of this if any.

and your last post I am going to save :D

the first sex flush I had, turned whole body Red.
Who knew I simply wasn't hyperventilating correctly.
Anyways, I still need more experimentation, we will see if this is what's up.

ah yes, your statements do make sense, vajroli may be bull.
what I meant by armchair philosopher is I've never met anyone to practise vajroli.
But! Their may be a reason for that.

Anyway!! I do appreciate your comments much! :D
And the fact that you shared the last post!!
I am going to take that one to heart.

an immortal spirit is one thing, and immortal body another, I shoot for both with one stone.

many practices, this is simply one I havnt perfected.
And yours is one I am going to have to learn ^_^ thanks for the introduction to it!

III
12-11-2010, 12:57 AM
Don't think I am being disrespectful or anything, their is simply little information on such things out their, they are hidden in the right places sure, but it takes alot to find those places.

so!!
it seems what I have been trying to do, may simply be a sex flush.
an incredibly strong sex flush.
but! Then their was the question of how to creat a sex flush, as apparently it only happens in 25 percent of men.
Turns out controlled hyperventilation done by mimicking oxygen hunger " short exhail longer inhail"
creats heat, and causes a sex flush.
the breathing is not rapid, a moderate easy speed can creat hyperventilation.

a sex flush as I understand it, is a release of histamine?
I'm not sure of the importance of this if any.

and your last post I am going to save :D

the first sex flush I had, turned whole body Red.
Who knew I simply wasn't hyperventilating correctly.
Anyways, I still need more experimentation, we will see if this is what's up.

ah yes, your statements do make sense, vajroli may be bull.
what I meant by armchair philosopher is I've never met anyone to practise vajroli.
But! Their may be a reason for that.

Anyway!! I do appreciate your comments much! :D
And the fact that you shared the last post!!
I am going to take that one to heart.

an immortal spirit is one thing, and immortal body another, I shoot for both with one stone.

many practices, this is simply one I havnt perfected.
And yours is one I am going to have to learn ^_^ thanks for the introduction to it!


Hi Avaar,

A change in knowledge and language can change many things. First, and this is a problem I have with many of the old alchemical texts, is that they are not even trying to make literal statements so if one doesn't have the "key" it might as all be Greek or Sanskrit or whatever to me. Second, even when some of the writings are trying to be literal, references that everybody got 100 or 1000 years ago can be a complete mystery, such as "bring me a hogshead of butter". Look at the euphemisms for the "John", "Crapper" (Thomas), "one holer", "two holer", washroom, restroom, outhouse and so forth. So what was the Roman euphemism 2000 years ago? Sex is even worse. In many cultures it is completely unspeakable. Non-euphemistic explanations even today are relatively rare and one picture could be worth a thousand words, such as some of the temple art which some folks consider(ed) obscene. So when there is no exact description people string words together trying to get the point across without actually saying anything that would get them tortured or murdered or other such treatment. Getting "stoned" in the modern USA is completely different than getting "stoned" in Iran even today.

So in some Tantric literature we have the term "spasms". In 1900 USA hysterical paroxysm from pelvic massage by doctors was the term. And all are speaking of orgasm. The Taoist literature distinguishes seven or nine stages of orgasm depending upon who is describing it. A single word, "spasms", or "orgasms" or "paroxysms" is hardly adequate for describing a wide range of possible responses. In many areas and times, oral sex was completely forbidden, and without good bathing, isn't what it is today. So anything that involved oral sex and/or the consumption of sexually generated fluids, a part of alchemy for a long time, would be spoken of only euphemistically to avoid punishment. So who knows what was being written euphemistically and then challenged to prove the euphemism to avoid persecution, torture and such. Many things just could NOT be revealed. Many writers were merely repeating what others had said without any real understanding and each time that happens meanings can get changed. Further many of the most taboo things were secret and taught only directly as part of the verbal tradition. Then there are the non-speakable teachings.

So who knows. I never learned these things in this life. I started remembering it around age 9 or 10 and thought it was all "yucky" as would most 9 or 10 year old children.

So there is no way to say for sure what is real, what is euphemism, what is "place holder" for secret knowledge and what can't even begin to be written. So all I can report is what I have found works. Things that don't work for me might be my failing to understand or do or because it is not consistent with reality, whatever that is.

Whenever anything has to be kept hidden because it violates cultural taboos under pain of imprisonment, torture or death it is going to be distorted. Organized priesthoods tend to dislike practices that lead to the lack of need for said priesthood.

So looking to change physical lead to physical gold was just good normal greed. Changing spiritual lead to spiritual gold was absolutely forbidden iimpinging upon church and priesthood areas and we all know "For I am a jealous church".

With sexually explicit pictures, movies etc easily available, all sorts of sex instructional materials available, written sexual descriptions are not forbidden the way they were. However, linking sex to the spiritual is still quite forbidden in many parts of the world.

One other question to which I sure don't know the answer. In addition to red skin in some pictures, there are sure a lot of blue skinned folks running around. Are they cyanotic?

Good luck and have fun.

Avatar
12-11-2010, 01:30 AM
Cyonotic?
possibly :P
Maybe extreme hyperventalation ?
Keeps blood oxygenated while tissue dies?
I'm actually not sure if tissue dies like that.
I do 100 percent agree with what you said.
hehe I've always wondered if eating silver was ever a trend, as it turns the skins grey. :p

anyways!
I prefer to practise things.
I experienced what I am trying to figure out the first time I masturbated, at too young of an age, I though something was wrong with me. and I made it happen again when I was 17.

it may just be a sex flush, but to me, knowledge and skill over a sex flush may be a great thing!

to me, tantra is the play of the subjective world.
the wise sage knows nothing, because he has ceased the subjective mind, and knower, knowing, and known stop, all simply "is"
It is our mind that creats this world, because all is subjective.
a chair is not a chair, unless their is subjective mind. Without subjective mind, a chair just Is, and is nothing els but is.
Least from what I understand.
My personality is temporary and changing, it is the mirror self identifying with aspects and characteristics, thus I have who I call me, and Avishkara.

I had revelation the other day.
hyperventalation+sex stimulation=sex flush
now I must learn to creat stronger sex flushes with less effort= more efficiency :D

I like you. :D
Lol

III
12-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Cyonotic?
possibly :P
Maybe extreme hyperventalation ?
Keeps blood oxygenated while tissue dies?
I'm actually not sure if tissue dies like that.
I do 100 percent agree with what you said.
hehe I've always wondered if eating silver was ever a trend, as it turns the skins grey. :p

anyways!
I prefer to practise things.
I experienced what I am trying to figure out the first time I masturbated, at too young of an age, I though something was wrong with me. and I made it happen again when I was 17.

it may just be a sex flush, but to me, knowledge and skill over a sex flush may be a great thing!

to me, tantra is the play of the subjective world.
the wise sage knows nothing, because he has ceased the subjective mind, and knower, knowing, and known stop, all simply "is"
It is our mind that creats this world, because all is subjective.
a chair is not a chair, unless their is subjective mind. Without subjective mind, a chair just Is, and is nothing els but is.
Least from what I understand.
My personality is temporary and changing, it is the mirror self identifying with aspects and characteristics, thus I have who I call me, and Avishkara.

I had revelation the other day.
hyperventalation+sex stimulation=sex flush
now I must learn to creat stronger sex flushes with less effort= more efficiency :D

I like you. :D
Lol


Hi Avaar,

What I don't understand is why you appear to find the sex flush so fascinating or important or something.. What is so important about it?

Avatar
12-14-2010, 10:35 PM
I have experienced intense phycho-physiological changes associated with the sex flush.
semi permanent as well.
just as an ice cube is so as long as kept in a freezer, so these changes reamin so as long as one didn't ejaculate.

now! Sex=pleasure, people don't like to give that up, but.
Bliss=Much greater pleasure.

Anyways this is why I stress the flush so much.
We talk of internal alchemy. Alchemy of the body being the change in it's functioning.
I'm speaking of the change and accumulation of certain,emerges,hormones who's effects are even visible to the eye IE " sex flush"

the transmutation of sexual fluid into ojas as is modernly spoken off, is a putrified teaching, that I am working on perfecting, due to an accedently intense experience of it that I unknowingly "caused"
Wasn't spontaneous, was unconsciously caused. ;)
Meaning, what I did, caused experience.

I am simply describing one method of doing things.
kecheri mudra is said to stimulate pituitary gland, as well, the center oh histamine control is suppose to be above pituitary.
but! inprefer my method, more streangth and umph in it ;]

it is the simple changes in anatomy, that when increased and accumulated, =alchemical change.
The circulation of elements can be done even within the human body ;) even the 3 colors will take form. Hehe. But that is another conversation that dosnt matter when it comes to methods.

III
01-03-2011, 07:45 PM
Hi Avaar,

I can only suggest that you not loose sight of what this is all about, enlightenment and the development of ones self into an enlightened being, by far more difficult than mere enlightenment. I mastered the physcial body with the art of skiing. Others use the martial arts or dance or all sorts of other things. Have fun and Good luck.

Aunt Clair
04-20-2011, 12:52 AM
all elements exist in the body.
We are constantly separating these elements threw sex.
and the hermetic magician can separate the elemental energies at will without sex


Sexual sublimation is the key to immortality.
Looking this up on the net, will throw you into horroid traps and pitfalls of delusional people.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I disagree. The creation of an immortal light body or greater soul is the key and that occurs through the alchemical marriage and the ongoing intercourse of the sun and the moon in countless episodes of coitus.


Sexual sublimation, is the raising of sexual fluid, upwards, into the bladder, and into the kidneys, "possibly into the blood from their, but that part I do not know for sure. Vajroli is the traditional method if learning this, a silver tube used for silver is anti bacterial.
What makes this process hard, is the bladder is a one way door. Man must go in threw the out door.
the bladder takes fluid in one "door" and passes it out again through another opening or "door" but energy does not require a window or door or opening.


I am speaking of this process through experience.
I accedently experience it, realized I has experienced it once more when I was ten.
It was all on accident, I spent 5 years researching and practicing, i have avoided the traditional vajroli method, but i am avout to begin it, as 100 percent subliminstion has not been reached.
it is very secret practise for it can be used for harm.
a man can suck up the fluid of a women, can literally suck the life force out it is said, make her bleed and kill her, these people are considered demons, and will still have power and very very long life.
I see the superior way as transmuting your own fluid.
Would one wish to crawl confined to the Hels as a demon for eternity ...able to only rise into the homes and bodies of the depraved and wicked to feast upon them only to sink again into oblivion when they are exorcised? Or would one rather fly as an angel with access to all realms for eternity?

There are 2 paths ascension and descension. Any human can descend and exist as a parasite in pain. But we might also ascend and heal, teach , exorcise , transmute, and inspire. The demon has no real power no real knowledge they are a negative state of human spirits from the live and the dead


This practise is taught in buddhism, is mentioned and taught in tao/daoism.
And is a sadahana of Hinduism and tantrics.
Ps. The dantian, the lower crucible mentioned by the Chinese, is the bladder ;)
I'll start the thread with this.The tan tiens are innumerable like the nadis but there are 3 main ones each is important to alchemy ;
Lunar Stone;head MoonStone,water, female, magnetic, blue and indigo chakras,treasure shen fire, projections mystic body,lunar angel
Solar Stone ;chest.SunStone ,fire, male, electric ,yellow and green chakras,treasure chi flow ,vitae, water, projections, higher self,solar angel
Philosopher Stone; belly,EarthStone, earth, male, electric, orange and red chakras, treasure ching air power , projections obe,guardian demon
Subsequently other stones are "cured" as the Tree of Life grows ;

..........................................right... .......front....left..............rear
Air tier Supernal ..emerald..chartreuse....white..........aqua
AA GA ? Mother
Water tier Head........silver.......indigo........sapphire... .....purple
moon sphinx lunar angel.. HS/GD........light watcher
Fire tier Chest........golden.....orange......topaz......... ....amber
sun sphinx LS/GD solar angel/HS..inner child/lower self
Earth tier Belly .......ruby........salmon.......black............. .rose
AD.........GD..............DW Father

Sex and demons are not necessary though countless texts dictate so these are blinds, all that is needed is love and forgiving and daily meditation to develop abilties to feel , to see , to hear , to fly and to call. Then the eternal teachers who have already created their immortal light body will attend thee and teach you in great love without cost.

Donna Matrix
04-22-2011, 04:39 AM
OK I for one would not volunteer tobe vampirized in this way. Second, no path is real that ignores the heart. I find this most revulsive. Isn't the body to be made into a temple, pleasing to the Lord?

Avatar
12-07-2011, 04:04 PM
the point was.
to vivify through breathing.
to make the vivification physical through creation of sexual fluid
to sublime the sexual fluid, and thus the vivification becomes semi permanent.

in india it is the golden body.
in china it is transforming jing, into chi, into shen
in buddhismt, it is the red and the white drop.
this transformation starts on the subtle level, but when the flow is strong, semen itself is influenced and transformed.

Avatar
12-07-2011, 04:06 PM
ps, alchemical marrage.
as their is male and female, so those opposites exist within.
the math of the yin/yang symbol demonstrates this.
1=2
2=1
magic of 3
2=4
4=2
magic of 5