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theFool
03-25-2011, 08:39 PM
One teaspoon of black magnetic sand and 2/3 teaspoon of potassium hydroxide pellets (KOH) are mixed together in porcelain crucible and heated with gas burner. The KOH melts and dissolves some of the sand.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3110.jpg

After some minutes, the crucible is taken out of the fire. In the picture, some of the molten mass is poured out of the crucible, some is left inside and allowed to cool.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3210.jpg

The next step requires to dissolve the fused mass in water (500ml)

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3310.jpg

The mass is left overnight to dissolve. The next day, after some swirling around, a white earth appears.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3410.jpg

It is left to settle down. The top water is poured away. (first wash)

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3510.jpg

The white earth is transferred to a bigger (1lt) vessel and “washed” one more time with tap water. (pic.5)
After the excess water is thrown out, a white earth slurry is left at the bottom of the vessel. The ph here is still very high, around 12. (so that not much of the white ormus is in solution)
In the next step the pH is lowered to 7, using HCl, drop by drop. The scope of this step is to get in solution the ormus while leaving behind other hydroxides and undissolved sand parts.

http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3610.jpg

A lot of still undissolved precipitant is seen at the bottom. Possibly it contains valuable ormus but it will be thrown away. One could lower the pH further to 1-2, then it will dissolve too, leaving behind only sand particles, but this increases also the risk to dissolve bigger quantity of toxic metal hydroxides.
Even when pH is left at 7, the clean solution floating above the precipitant contains enough of the black sand ormus. It has a sweet, soft taste. A peculiar observation here is that even when the pH is lowered to 3 with HCl, the solution is still sweet and doesn't get sour at all.

Aleilius
03-25-2011, 10:49 PM
You're also leaching matter from your crucible with this KOH burn.

Interesting processes though. Should try to test for elemental gold with Muriate of Jupiter after a sulfide/sulfur reduction of this material.

theFool
03-26-2011, 03:30 PM
You're also leaching matter from your crucible with this KOH burn.
It doesn't leach much, almost negligible. On the contrary, potassium carbonate can eat through the crucible.


Interesting processes though. Should try to test for elemental gold with Muriate of Jupiter after a sulfide/sulfur reduction of this material.
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/13/27/64/97/m3s110.jpg

For you my friend I tried it. It gives a nice yellow color when dissolved in AR (in pic.3 you can compare it with some real gold chloride; the lower tube is gold chloride, the upper is the sulfur burned matter dissolved in AR). Upon testing with "Muriate of Jupiter" it gives what you see in fourth pic :(
Also, it does not dissolve fully in boiling 20% hydrochloric acid, but dissolves well in AR or HCl/bleach.

solomon levi
09-01-2011, 02:57 AM
I do a similar process using nitre fixed by charcoal.
Nitre melts at a lower temp than tartar, and combined with charcoal it produces tartar in the end;
one which Glauber called an alkahest. I don't know about that (yet) but it does have some nice uses as a menstruum.
When vodka is poured over my pulverised fused massed, the water collects the ormus precipitate and the
alcohol collects a tincture. They separate as in the ens process due to the strong alkali.
In the following pic, however, I added more water so they are not separating. But you can see the green tincture
which the nitre acquires from being fixed by charoal, and you can see the white precip.

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/12/78/17/61/th/pict0837.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=419&u=12781761)

I do the same process for oil of sand.
One can also add other metal oxides to the mix to get their tinctures via the oil of sand after fusion.
The oil of sand will draw tinctures from carbonates while in solution. For oxides and sulfates,
I fuse them first and then the deliquesced matter, or vodka added, pulls a tincture.

I ingest the oil of sand and its tinctured variants as "oil" and/or as alcohol tinctures.

theFool
02-04-2012, 11:37 AM
I do the same process for oil of sand.
One can also add other metal oxides to the mix to get their tinctures via the oil of sand after fusion.
The oil of sand will draw tinctures from carbonates while in solution. For oxides and sulfates,
I fuse them first and then the deliquesced matter, or vodka added, pulls a tincture.

I ingest the oil of sand and its tinctured variants as "oil" and/or as alcohol tinctures.
This is the oil of sand:

http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/13/27/64/97/oil110.jpg

Quite interesting what you say about it Sol. It can extract tinctures hm..

theFool
02-07-2012, 07:22 PM
Here I attempted to extract some copper carbonate with potassium carbonate solution. It turned blue (just water will not do this).

Then tried to extract it with ~98% alcohol. The alcohol didn't change color. However the clear phase, above the blue, has almost doubled in volume after hours. Somehow water is added to the alcohol from the copper carbonate (hydrate ?) bottom phase. Also a white precipitate is forming where the two phases touch and it falls down while tiny bubbles rise upwards.

http://i47.servimg.com/u/f47/13/27/64/97/cop111.jpg

This experiment is similar to those here: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1044-cool-copper-solutions&highlight=copper but without the adding of ammonia.
The potassium carbonate draws a tincure but it cannot be extracted with alcohol.
Will the oil of sand (essentially it is potassium carbonate) behave similarly? What does Sol mean when he says he can extract tinctures in alcohol?
Should check this with iron carbonate too.

solomon levi
02-08-2012, 04:01 AM
No, oil of sand is not potassium carbonate solution.
Potash solution is not oily, thick or glass making when evaporated.
It's sodium silicate, or potassium silicate - water glass.

Recall a post long ago about TEOS tetra ethyl ortho silicate?
An austalian guy could produce true opals just as nature makes them and his secret was TEOS.
Alcohol or vinegar provide the ethyl portion.
I'm not saying a simple mixture makes TEOS - but the ingredients are there.

theFool
02-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Thanks from distinguishing those apart. I thought it was like the oil of tartar but it leaves a glass behind as you said.

solomon levi
02-14-2012, 02:40 AM
Will the oil of sand (essentially it is potassium carbonate) behave similarly? What does Sol mean when he says he can extract tinctures in alcohol?
Should check this with iron carbonate too.

This is similar. I think the carbonates are the easiest to extract from.
So if you have a process that turns metals into their carbonates, you pretty much just add vodka
for water and alcohol extractions, like an ens.

This one I did with antimony metal. The sodium sulfate wasn't necessary. I accidentally added it
instead of nitre. So I just added more charcoal to change it.
So in this version, same as oil of sand, but using nitre fixed by charcoal.
http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/12/78/17/61/pict0846.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=428&u=12781761)

I shouldn't say same as oil of sand. I think it has more potential.
I've been thinking that these should not be made with plant carbon though,
but with mineral, calcium carbonate, or lithium carbonate.

theFool
02-14-2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I make the carbonates by precipitation with K2CO3 (for example iron sulfate + potassium carbonate -> iron carbonate). Lets try some vodka on it ..

solomon levi
02-15-2012, 03:38 AM
In case this is unclear for others, what I mean to say is that all these matters are
fused together in one step and then they deliquesce or we add vodka.
So in making oil of sand or nitre fixed by charcoal, we just add whatever mineral
we want to the mix'fusion, and then get its tincture in the deliquescence or maceration.
It's a simple way. I can't say how pure it is.

theFool
02-16-2012, 02:16 PM
In case this is unclear for others, what I mean to say is that all these matters are
fused together in one step and then they deliquesce or we add vodka.
So in making oil of sand or nitre fixed by charcoal, we just add whatever mineral
we want to the mix'fusion, and then get its tincture in the deliquescence or maceration.
It's a simple way. I can't say how pure it is.
It seems that it can be done even without adding sand. Just take the metal carbonate and fuse as in the oil of sand recipe, but without puting any sand in. Extract with vodka.

solomon levi
02-17-2012, 10:33 AM
let your
Alcaly be first of all melted with the calx of any
imperfect metal & then you have the sulphur married
with the salt & by the fusion of fire somewhat opened.
This mixture proceed with after the way of volatising
salt of Tartar per se, & both being thus putrified
& regenerated together, do after their volatizing
more throughly unite together, which for that end
proceed with by cohobation so long untill they be
wholly volatised. Coagulate the spirit then into a
volatile salt & use it either with the salt united
or extract the sulphur which is fragrant & sweet with
pure spirit of wine, & reccon your self then master
of a medicinal balsam which you can never enough
value. - George Starkey "Pyrotechny Asserted"

solomon levi
02-17-2012, 10:52 AM
And here we see how tincture of tartar extracts better than S.V. alone:
http://books.google.com/books?id=5Yw9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA3166&dq=foliated+tartar#v=onepage&q=foliated%20tartar&f=false

theFool
02-17-2012, 01:13 PM
Interesting quotes Sol.

And here we see how tincture of tartar extracts better than S.V. alone:
http://books.google.com/books?id=5Yw9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA3166&dq=foliated+tartar#v=onepage&q=foliated%20tartar&f=false
I think I have observed this yellowing described here when I was cohobating potassium carbonate and alcohol. Probably he speaks of the same.


let your
Alcaly be first of all melted with the calx of any
imperfect metal & then you have the sulphur married
with the salt & by the fusion of fire somewhat opened.
This mixture proceed with after the way of volatising
salt of Tartar per se, & both being thus putrified
& regenerated together, do after their volatizing
more throughly unite together, which for that end
proceed with by cohobation so long untill they be
wholly volatised. Coagulate the spirit then into a
volatile salt & use it either with the salt united
or extract the sulphur which is fragrant & sweet with
pure spirit of wine, & reccon your self then master
of a medicinal balsam which you can never enough
value. - George Starkey "Pyrotechny Asserted"
I have some iron extracted and after evaporation, I see now some needle crystals (I think it is potassium carbonate).
If I get it right, Starkey says to volatilise those crystals, probably with acohol cohobation.

solomon levi
03-20-2012, 12:37 PM
I came across a use of nitre fixed by charcoal in Digby:

Fulminize saltpeter with charcoals; then give it strong fire for two hours; then dissolve it
in fair water; filter and evaporate to dryness; then give it strong fire for two or three hours
more, til it become like green.
Take two parts of this saltpeter and one part of antimony in powder, put it in an earthen
pot and put upon it a sufficient quantity of water, which being evaporated, give it a strong
fire for two hours, then put your matter in water and let it settle a night and it will draw the
tincture of antimony, which you will find at the bottom; pour the water from it and dry your
powder. The dose is ten to twenty grains. It purges gently by stool.

theFool
01-05-2013, 11:15 AM
For people doing those fusions with alkali on sands.. here is one more hint of what one could try with the escaping fumes:


MERCURY OF ALL METALS. (quote from 'Chemical Secrets')

Take salt of Tartar, and powder of Pebble-stones,* mix them well together,
and cast them upon burning coals, and there will ascend a spirit,
which must be received, which hath a virtue to convert the Calx of Metals
into running mercury.

*(Silex)

solomon levi
01-05-2013, 12:12 PM
very interesting!

theFool
01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
very interesting!
Indeed. Take also some of my observations:
When I boil the lye+sand fusion for a long time, it will bubble. Later, when I go to isolate the ormus out of it, I find nothing to precipitate!
I suppose the ormus will be found inside the distillate. Just raise the pH of the distillate, will the ormus precipitate appear?

solomon levi
01-05-2013, 12:41 PM
You thinking the ormus escapes as gas?

theFool
01-05-2013, 02:07 PM
Probably it escapes together with some NaOH or other element on which it is attached. If it could escape as a pure gas, it would be very subtle (low boiling point, etc..) to be captured. If it can be precipitated in the distillate, then it should be attached to some molecule.
My guess to your answer is yes, it escapes in the fumes and a part of it (or maybe all) remains dissolved in the distillate.

gedfire
01-07-2013, 09:28 PM
Couldn't a magnet be used to prevent the ormus from escaping?