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solomon levi
05-25-2011, 06:29 PM
This is something I was considering last night but i don't really know what would result.

air - nitrogen
water - oxygen
fire - hydrogen
earth - carbon


air + water = mercury and also nitrogen + oxygen = nitrates
fire + earth = sulphur and hydrogen + carbon = hydrocarbons

can one marry nitrates and hydrocarbons? sounds explosive, but so is alchemy some say.

another marriage may be hydroxides (OH) or water (H2O) and cyanides or nitriles(CN).

or urea contains all four: OC(NH2)2
as does (iso)cyanic acid (aka hydrogen cyanate)
as does fulminic acid (yes, as in fulminating) HCNO

Just contemplating the possibilities that result if alchemists intended N, O, H, C as rotation of elements.

solomon levi
05-25-2011, 06:55 PM
some may find this interesting:

chlorophyll = CHONMg (with various numbers in there) plant blood (chloros = green)
heme (a porphyrin) = CHONFe (with various numbers in there) human blood (porphyrin = purple.)


also:
"Nature uses multiple tetrapyrroles - hemes, chlorophyll, and cobalamin. F430 is the most reduced tetrapyrrole in nature with only five double bonds. This particular tetrapyrrole derivative is called a corphin. Because of its relative lack of conjugated unsaturation, it is yellow, not the intense purple-red associated with more unsaturated tetrapyrroles. It is also the only tetrapyrrole derivative found in nature to contain nickel."

"Cyanide is naturally present in activated charcoal, and hydroxocobalamin, which has great affinity for cyanide, picks it up, and is changed to cyanocobalamin. Thus, the cyanocobalamin form of B12 is the most widespread in the food industry...
Cyanide is present in almost every type of smoke produced by burning organic materials, including tobacco and cannabis...
(cyanocobalamin appears as) dark red crystals or an amorphous or crystalline red powder. Cyanocobalamin is very hygroscopic in the anhydrous form, and sparingly soluble in water (1:80). It is stable to autoclaving for short periods at 121 C. The vitamin B12 coenzymes are very unstable in light."

Chenkel
05-25-2011, 10:01 PM
Nice. I've made similar connections... at least around the basic H,C,O,N idea.... (not enough of a chemist to comment on the rest) But for sure interesting... especially in light of things like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_makeup_of_the_human_body

Not too sure about the validity/application, but neat to think about.... and glad to know I'm not the only one :) (Also... electron shells seem... uh... alchemically suspect to me, think so too?)

solomon levi
11-09-2011, 07:40 PM
I came to this again last month in my contemplations.
Fire and air = ammonia: NH3
Water and earth = carbonates: CO3
Joining the volatiles to the fixts one gets ammonium carbonate: volatile alkali

Seth-Ra
11-09-2011, 08:20 PM
I always figured Hydrogen to be Water, and Oxygen to be Fire - in which case, NH3 - Air and Water, CO3 - Earth and Fire, seems a dual - becoming singular - type of balance within the each half - a microcosm, then combine both balanced halves to make a balanced whole - macrocosm.
With that in mind - i once made a drawing that exemplified (to me, anyway), this elemental dance.
( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1344-Elemental-Transmutation-Circle )
You may find it somewhat relevant. ;)

Just IMO. :)




~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
11-11-2011, 03:35 AM
yeah, I wondered about fire and water for a while too.
We think of hydration = water.
But I ended up with this - fire feeds on oxygen, therefore it cannot be oxygen.
That's the reasoning I went with. :)

Seth-Ra
11-11-2011, 03:41 AM
That is an interesting way to see it - but here's an alternative:

Fire does not exist without oxygen, because Fire is oxygen. ;)

(ofcourse, Fire can be anything that is combustible, but it feeds on earth, dried earth).

Just food for thought. :)



~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
11-15-2011, 11:39 PM
In my considerations, I also chose hydrogen for fire, the most volatile, as
hydrogen is one proton and electron, the beginning of the periodic table of elements.
One could vision that as water if they like, but then we know water to be H2O, a compound. :)

We can relate all this to the platonic solids as well - the simplest figure, the tetrahedron is fire.
I'll elaborate on this when I have time. It gives credence to the alchemical idea
(held by some) that earth is not an element. Fire, air and water are made of perfect triangles.
Earth is made of a new geometric form, squares.
Ether is made of pentagons - microcosm - man - dodecahedral DNA, etc... too many connections
for me to write about now.

solomon levi
11-16-2011, 12:06 AM
It is interesting to note that the peridoic table progression - 1, 6, 7, 8 for H, C, N, O -
follows the astrological progression: fire, earth, air, water; aries, taurus, gemini, cancer, etc.

peethagoras
12-10-2011, 08:34 PM
hi
does urea have avything to do with urine?
Because it is said that Sir francis Bacon experimented with that.

thanks

guthrie
03-15-2012, 05:39 PM
Yes, because urea was first, in history of chemistry anyway, extracted from urine.

guthrie
03-15-2012, 05:41 PM
Nitroglycerine contains C, O, H and N, and is used as medicine for angina as well as explosives. See the internet for more information.

Ghislain
03-16-2012, 08:32 AM
Urea Nitrate C H5 N3 O4 also very explosive.

Ghislain

Chenkel
03-19-2012, 11:48 PM
These 4 elements are the components of lots of different compounds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organic_compounds

They're just the most common building blocks of the living world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHON

Taking a closer look at urea or ng is not on my todo list :)

solomon levi
03-20-2012, 06:18 PM
Wow. I didn't realise the amino acids, for the most part, are CHNOs.

Chenkel
03-20-2012, 09:30 PM
These might be worth experimenting on :)

Dopamine C8H11NO2
Norepinephrine C8H11NO3
Epinephrine C9H13NO3
Tryptophan C11H12N2O2
Seratonin C10H12N2O
Melatonin C13H16N2O2

MarkostheGnostic
03-24-2012, 06:14 AM
John Cade 'serendipitously' discovered the usefulness of Lithium salts as a pharmaceutical for Bipolar disorder through Lithium Urate's effects on Guinea pigs in 1949. Just my 2.

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 06:53 AM
They're just the most common building blocks of the living world.


Which is reason to notice them IMO.
"Everywhere before your eyes".

My logic tells me - "how can something so rare (antimony, gold, cinnabar, mercury, arsenic, bismuth...) be the source of the mineral kingdom?"
It has to be something generic, no?