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3+O(
07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=595

Maybe a stupid question, but I have gotten stuck and cannot find this in my symbol dictionaries. I think maybe sal armoniac? Or sal armoniac conjoined to sol? This is from the 'Secret Symbols'.

solomon levi
07-07-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't recall seeing that one either. But i get the same impression about sal ammoniac,
only connected to mars.
I believe the plain circle is a symbol for alum, so maybe sal ammon connected to alum??

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 01:40 AM
Looks like a compounded symbol of sal ammoniac + mars as SL mentioned. This is an interesting symbol. I've never seen it before!

It might mean something like sublimation of sal ammoniac with mars. This yields the sulphur of mars (well, some would probably disagree, but that's okay). The sublimation has to be carried out multiple times, and it's best if we use an inert material such as pure silicon dioxide in the sal ammoniac + mars mix. This helps to prevent fusion which would otherwise impede the process.

Something that I've wanted to try is boiling a concentrated solution of sal ammoniac with iron, and while boiling adding an alkali. This might be a quick method to obtain the sulphur of mars. I've yet to try it though. I know for a fact that no reaction occurs when a solution of sal ammoniac + mars is boiled. Indeed, we don't want a "normal" chemical reaction to occur. This isn't chemistry after all!

I wrote a little publication about this process, but I leave the student to figure out that we need to put the material through multiple sublimations. I also fail to mention the tip about the inert material (Fulcanelli mentions this though).

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 01:42 AM
I believe the plain circle is a symbol for alum, so maybe sal ammon connected to alum??
Not too sure about that one. The angle of the extended arm from the circle matches the mars symbol rather well. You can also make out the pointed arrow.

3+O(
07-08-2011, 02:15 PM
I thought it was probably not mars because it is arranged on the opposite side of the diagram from mars alone:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100925120436/kanzaka/images/0/09/Roschart.png
(this is a big picture, 6MB)

They also give mars the crossbar which this other symbol doesn't have.

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 02:16 PM
Or sal armoniac conjoined to sol?
Just going back over this thread once more, and I want to mention that I'm pretty much sure it can't be sal ammoniac conjoined to sol. Why? There's no punct in the circle! If there was, then I'd have to do a double take, and yes, it might indeed be a reference to sol conjoined to sal ammoniac.

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 02:19 PM
I thought it was probably not mars because it is arranged on the opposite side of the diagram from mars alone:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100925120436/kanzaka/images/0/09/Roschart.png
(this is a big picture, 6MB)

Neat image! Haven't seen that one before.

Symbolism is ultimately in the eye of the beholder. You have my take on it. I don't see how it could be anything other than mars conjoined to sal ammoniac.



They also give mars the crossbar which this other symbol doesn't have.
I'm trying to look for this one. Could you point this out to me? I can't imagine mars anything other than this:

http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/marssymbol.png

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 02:25 PM
Hmm, maybe this is simply another symbol for sal ammoniac.




http://www.levity.com/alchemy/symsubst.html

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/salamon2.gif

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/salamon1.gif

Sal ammoniac. Ammonium Chloride. Probably originally made from ammonia rich urine and salt. A white granular and fibrous solid, which has the property that it will sublimate at a relatively low temperature. That is, if heated in a flask it will not melt but turn into a white vapour which will rise in the flask and condense in the cooler neck, back to the characteristic fibrous crystals of Sal ammoniac.

Quite curious how this novel symbol for sal ammoniac also hearkens to Mars/Aries/Ram.


Furthermore, the X denotes sal ammoniac of the sages or salt of Ammon ([*202-2] --- ammoniakos), in other words, salt of the Ram (26), which was formerly written, more accurately, harmoniac, because it realizes the harmony ([*202-3] --- assembling), the agreement of water with fire, because it is the mediator par excellence between heaven and earth, the spirit and the body, the volatile and the fixed.

3+O(
07-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Just going back over this thread once more, and I want to mention that I'm pretty much sure it can't be sal ammoniac conjoined to sol. Why? There's no punct in the circle! If there was, then I'd have to do a double take, and yes, it might indeed be a reference to sol conjoined to sal ammoniac.

You are surely right about this, as sol has the point several other times in the diagram.


I'm trying to look for this one. Could you point this out to me? I can't imagine mars anything other than this:

http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/marssymbol.png

On the right side of the diagram, at the same level as the strange symbol. Sometimes this variant of mars is used to mean vitriol according to a symbol dictionary, but I have more often seen it in old astrology books.

3+O(
07-08-2011, 03:13 PM
Hmm, maybe this is simply another symbol for sal ammoniac.
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/salamon2.gif

Ah-ha! This is the most likely candidate, although the number of tines differ.

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 03:14 PM
On the right side of the diagram, at the same level as the strange symbol. Sometimes this variant of mars is used to mean vitriol according to a symbol dictionary, but I have more often seen it in old astrology books.
Roman vitriol perhaps? I'll have to dig into my symbol collection folder to confirm this.

http://www.vitriolum.net/images/aleilius/siderite1.jpg

http://www.vitriolum.net/images/aleilius/mars1.jpg

http://www.vitriolum.net/images/aleilius/vitriolumroman1.jpg

I think siderite might qualify for the mars symbol you're speaking about.

Aleilius
07-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Ah-ha! This is the most likely candidate, although the number of tines differ.
Yeah, still a curious symbol for sal ammoniac though! I'm trying to figure out why it's represented like that. I understand the star for sal ammoniac (ever seen sal ammoniac crystallize out of a supersaturated solution? looks EXACTLY like little 3d stars/snowflakes).

Here's a video of what I'm talking about regarding the supersaturated crystallization:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRNiagLn9Co

Nice! I've never used the video embed functionality before.

If you look closely you can see the crystallization pattern (six points).

solomon levi
07-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Okay. Most likely sal ammoniac. But if it is intended to be martial, perhaps iron chloride.
I was just realizing last night the importance of this chemical.

I didn't think to separate the arrow from the sal ammoniac symbol.
If we do this, it could be iron joined to charcoal (which has a trident-like shape) = steel,
or crocus martis, but i don't find crocus martis symbols that look like that, but crocus veneris ones do.

peethagoras
12-10-2011, 10:02 PM
An even stupider question would be what does your symbol 3*O(o mean? seems somehow vaguely familiar,