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True Initiate
07-09-2011, 04:35 PM
In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?

The Alchemists talk quite a lot of Harmony between male and female but did they ever used and experienced what they preached? Of all old masters only Flamel had a wife and the majority of them were single! Not to mention Basil Valentine who was a monk.

About two years ago when i was picking a book that i ordered via Thalia bookstore (it was Opus Mago from Welling) in Vienna my friends girlfriend was all like: Oh my God! Why on Earth are you reading about Black Magic??? Are you a weirdo???

I replied: No, the book it's actually quite Christian in a sense. She told me that she never had thought that i am religious person (which i am not ) especially because of my looks. ;)

After this incident i had a lot of others and it became quite a puzzle for me why after so much progression in Alchemy, both Internal and External it seemed that my attraction to women and my abbility to comunicate with them was decreasing instead of increasing?

I had expected that my magnetism will increase because i believed naivly that the women are more spiritual than men... :confused:
Compare how many women are present on this forum against how many women are in a jewelry shop around a corner right now? There you will find the answer!

So what's your thoughts about this one. Is being an Alchemist a bleesing or a curse when it comes to women and sacred feminine?

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 04:40 PM
Oh, i forgot... i am a single too!

Awani
07-09-2011, 05:00 PM
I just think you have been looking in the wrong places... perhaps alchemy is too feminine as it is so for a woman it becomes an overdose LOL.

Another theory: the only way for the patriarchy/dominator culture of the world to keep their power is to focus all their brainwashing efforts on the women i.e. they are all standing in jewelry stores.

:cool:

Aleilius
07-09-2011, 05:09 PM
A relationship with an alchemist? Nope!

Alchemists are weird folk for sure. An alchemist is not somebody I'd be dating if I were a brainwashed Barbie zombie female.

However, there are some really awesome females out there that are steeped in occult/ceremonial magick. They are probably your best bet, and might even be highly interested in your alchemy work.

In my opinion, females that would date us are very very rare, and searching for one might be a tough undertaking.

I sympathize with you. I've 24, and I've only had one girlfriend (which ended horribly). This was back when I was around 16. Haven't found the pearl yet, but I'm still searching.

Green Lion
07-09-2011, 06:42 PM
The majority of my alchemist friends are married. For two of them, their wifes are also alchemists.
And I have personnaly found my pearl.
So...

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 06:47 PM
To be honest with you i think the problem is in ourselves or at least in me. The root of the problem is the one of the reasons why i searched for an answer in Alchemy.

I saw Alchemy as a way of life that revolves around finding peace and love within yourself. How can i love someone or even be around someone if i can not even stand myself often. What i hope to accomplish is to help those who feel lost and left out. No matter what you believe, if you do not believe in yourself it will not matter what you believe because you won't have any faith.

Nothing can be achived if you do not believe in yourself

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 06:50 PM
The majority of my alchemist friends are married. For two of them, their wifes are also alchemists.
And I have personnaly found my pearl.
So...

This is extraordinary i must admit but the women in my friend circle are spiritually dead, especially the younger ones. It can be sometimes very frustrating. (:

Aleilius
07-09-2011, 06:59 PM
To be honest with you i think the problem is in ourselves or at least in me. The root of the problem is the one of the reasons why i searched for an answer in Alchemy.

I saw Alchmy as a way of life that revolves around finding peace and love within yourself. How can i love someone or even be around someone if i can not even stand myself often. What i hope to accomplish is to help those who feel lost and left out. No matter what you believe, if you do not believe in yourself it will not matter what you believe because you won't have any faith.

Nothing can be achived if you do not believe in yourself
What you feel is very human. It is a general human psychological condition. I've not figured out why this subtle form of self-hatred (possibly a strong/loaded word) surfaces in the human psyche.

What you are experiencing reminds me of the psychological meaning of the green lion devouring the sun. Might take a look into this concept if you're interested. I first learned about it earlier this year, but I've known about the weird self-hatred quark that exists in the human psyche for many years. The first time I learned about it was while watching an anime (Evangelion).

It can be tough to learn to love our own self, but it's a part of the Jungian psychological alchemical process. All seekers must face it at some point in their journey.

I wish I could offer some advice, but I really don't know the exact cause behind this schism. Perhaps it's our spirit/soul lashing out at our body because it does not like to be limited/encased in a meat shell. Perhaps it does not like to be aware of the pain & imperfectness of the body, and forms a complex at a very early age. I do not know. What I do know is that we must face this problem alone, and only we can fix it (not another). The healing must come from our own being. Simply becoming aware of it is really a great feat that most are not able to admit/face. It paves the way for healing to being.

Perhaps the only advice I can offer that would be useful is to explore this feeling in greater depth. Poke at it, figure out why it's there, perform self-psychoanalysis, explore it, etc. This is somewhat akin to the black stage. You might feel like you're losing yourself while exploring this in depth, but this is absolutely required: we must lose ourselves completely to find our true essence. The ego will lash out at you, your body (generating self-destructive behavior), and those around you while you carry this out. It may even become overinflated at a certain point, but that's just before the fall (it does so as a protection mechanism).

All pain is temporary. All emotion is illusory. Research the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. This is what helped me the most.


1. The Nature of Suffering (or Dukkha):
"This is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering."[5][6]

2. Suffering's Origin (Dukkha Samudaya):
"This is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."[5][6]

3. Suffering's Cessation (Dukkha Nirodha):
"This is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it."[5][6]

4. The Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering: (Dukkha Nirodha Gamini Patipada Magga)
"This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration."[7][8]


I warn you against repressing this feeling. It's the single worst thing you can do. It will only build up, and will poison the mind from the inside out. Repression is the main root of most psychological problems, mental illnesses, etc. It must be faced, understood, and united with its opposite.

All Masters have taken on the pain & sorrow of humanity, and the world. It is an absolute requirement. I'm sorry. I wish there was another way, but this way is the only way for us to learn the true value of care, love, selflessness, and self-sacrifice.

This same concept is mirrored in most religions. Indeed, Siddhattha Gautama (known as the first/supreme Buddha) faced this. It's said that the reason for his spiritual journey (seeking enlightenment/attainment) was in order to find a way to remedy the pain & sorrow that faces humanity (and himself). In order to find the remedy, he had to succumb to the poison itself, but this was part of the lesson.

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 07:32 PM
Thanks for those Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. All of these Eastern religions are quantum leap above our Western traditions. I am always amazed how deep those truths are.

I am not a self-hating person but i am lacking a passion for this Earthly existence and of the things like family, friends girlfriends...

Today is Saturday and i am plannig to read Azoëtia of Andrew Chumbley instead of going out. I am asking myself when did i loose the interest?

Aleilius
07-09-2011, 07:51 PM
Thanks for those Four Noble Truths of Buddhism. All of these Eastern religions are quantum leap above our Western traditions. I am always amazed how deep those truths are.
That they are! I believe Aleister Crowley mentioned in his biography that a Western mystic, after a long hard toil without making headway/spiritual progress, will always seek the Eastern philosophies, and that after doing so, their journey would be nearing completion. This was from his own experience (he also sought after the Eastern philosophies after internalizing so much Western dogma of questionable value).

The Western systems always leave the seeker searching for more, and never really offers any real answers to the greatest questions/problems. The religions of the West already tell you: "Oh, don't worry, you've been taken care of already, no need to question anything, just have faith!" What a load of BS. This is a very nasty trick that's been played. I could get into some crazy theories about why they've been designed the way they have, but that's for another time & thread!


I am not a self-hating person but i am lacking a passion for this Earthly existence and of the things like family, friends girlfriends...
Sorry, it might've not been the best term for me to use to describe this phenomena that surfaces in the human psyche. I don't know how to describe it without using loaded words/terms such as "self-hatred." Possibly, another way of saying it would be the stagnation of the emotions caused by a deep seated emotional blockage/complex. I don't know!

I added more to my previous reply after you posted your reply. Sorry about that. Sometimes I get in an editing mood, and will edited/add more to a post for at least 10 minutes. I continue to think of things I want to say, and instead of adding a new post I just edit my old one.

3+O(
07-09-2011, 07:51 PM
Of all old masters only Flamel had a wife and the majority of them were single!

Thomas Vaughan (Eugenius Philalethes) was married, there is a book I cannot remember the name of right now in a local library which is the record of their alchemical experiments together.He also speaks of her a great deal in his personal diary, she died young.

John Dee was married twice.

In the Confessio Fraternitatis it is mentioned that some members of the Invisible Order have children, which they do not necessarily teach their secrets to, in connection with the good Christian morals also mentioned, it may be inferred they had married.

"Adiramled" the pseudonym of an interesting modern figure, is from the names of a husband and wife, Delmar and Ida.

I do not think it is strange that most women are not interested in these topics, poring over obscure historical documents is the sort of (frankly!) nerdy pursuit that tends attract men more than women. I am married, and my wife has been kind enough to reassure me and encourage me in this interest, although it holds little attraction for her. If it were not old religous and scientific texts, it would be football statistics or cars or something else right?

horticult
07-09-2011, 08:05 PM
U should in Vienna buy Weininger.


btw after u do some au, u will see the power of atraction


as solomon said: 1 male of 1000, zero female from all

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 08:17 PM
U should in Vienna buy Weininger.

I had a quick read of his philosophy on Wiki and i like his statement:

The male aspect is active, productive, conscious and moral/logical, while the female aspect is passive, unproductive, unconscious and amoral/alogical.



btw after u do some au, u will see the power of atraction


What is the au?

horticult
07-09-2011, 08:20 PM
thats a bad translation, should be immoral etc

Au ... buy also some old good Freud

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 08:24 PM
That they are! I believe Aleister Crowley mentioned in his biography that a Western mystic, after a long hard toil without making headway/spiritual progress, will always seek the Eastern philosophies, and that after doing so, their journey would be nearing completion. This was from his own experience (he also sought after the Eastern philosophies after internalizing so much Western dogma of questionable value).

The Western systems always leave the seeker searching for more, and never really offers any real answers to the greatest questions/problems.

I am of the same opinion about this matter.

We find often how a Western Adept travels to East where he learns great secrets and then he comes back with this knowledge in the West and starts an Order like Christian Rosenkreutz or writes a good Grimoir like Abraham the Jew who wrote Abramelin and many more examples.

True Initiate
07-09-2011, 08:31 PM
thats a bad translation, should be immoral etc

Au ... buy also some old good Freud

I thought for a moment that by your au you meant pua which is a modern seduction movement in which i was involved two years ago. (:
There are some great books that are surprisingly similar to our general Internal Path goals. I remember Inner Game by Hypnotica.
Those were good times...

Aleilius
07-09-2011, 08:50 PM
Au ... buy also some old good Freud
Au, gold? Aurum Potable?

Freud the fraud! Bah! C.G. Jung could blow Freud out of the water. Hehe, sorry, I'm just partial to Jungian psychology.

horticult
07-09-2011, 09:03 PM
freud is basis & jung next level

freud+jung+liber III are mighty keys

Albion
07-09-2011, 09:03 PM
as solomon said: 1 male of 1000, zero female from all


23) All this I tested with wisdom. I thought I could fathom it, but it eludes me.

24) [The secret of] what happens is elusive and deep, deep down; who can discover it?

25) I put my mind to studying, exploring, and seeking wisdom and the reason of things, and to studying wickedness, stupidity, madness, and folly.

26) Now, I find woman more bitter than death; she is all traps, her hands are fetters and her heart is snares. He who is pleasing to God escapes her, and he who is displeasing is caught by her.

27) See, this is what I found, said Koheleth, item by item in my search for the reason of things.

28) As for what I sought further but did not find, I found only one human in a thousand, and the one I found among so many was never a woman.

29) But, see, this I did find: God made men plain, but they have engaged in too much reasoning.

[Ecclesiastes, Chapter 7, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh]

Awani
07-09-2011, 10:38 PM
Today is Saturday and i am plannig to read Azoëtia of Andrew Chumbley instead of going out. I am asking myself when did i loose the interest?

Sound much more fun than going out, I got bored of doing that ten years ago.

;)

Aleilius
07-09-2011, 10:44 PM
Sound much more fun than going out, I got bored of doing that ten years ago.

;)

Going out? What?! You mean people actually have to go out to have fun? That doesn't sound fun at all!

I hate going out. Call me a recluse I suppose, but I can't be bothered to go out when there's so much left to be uncovered, discovered, researched, etc. That's my fun, and I love it!

Awani
07-09-2011, 10:57 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/hermit.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermit)

:cool:

Susu
07-10-2011, 06:09 AM
Not all women are materialistic and unspiritual as we may perceive them to be. My girlfriend got me going down the journey of alchemy and has helped and supported me throughout. In fact she even got me my first book "Frater Albertus - The Alchemist's Handbook".

Also, you mentioned having a circle of friends. Not saying you should replace the ones you have now but you should look into making another group of friends with common interest. I have a few group of friends, some I can't even mention alchemy without the thought of witchcraft, satanic rituals, or anime coming to mind. The ones I can talk about the subject of alchemy with is rather small, mainly my girlfriend. lol

If anything you always got us on this forum. Though faceless, we make a pretty good body.

Salazius
07-11-2011, 11:00 AM
Well, of course, if you have a weird look, weird face, weird clothes, weird language, speak of weird things, you can only attract a weird girl - and if you stay home, you'll never attract a girl - this is pure logic. But Alchemical interested weird girls are very rare. So ... So, try to look like a normal guy, speaking of normal thing, looking normal, and you'll have a normal social/personnal life. Of course if you're a goth, then, stay goth. If you're punk ... well, stay punk, because it is you and your 'normality'.

I'm single too. I spend three complete years without going out - after loosing touch with friends that moved in other places. It was okay since now. Since I've been only practicing Alchemy/Hermetics.

For a social life, it's not marvellous. At all. Since generally the persons you meet are in forums are in other places, countries, veeeery far. But for discovering new things in Alchemy, it's perfect. You're focused, and the work is intense. I discovered 10 kinds of different Alkahests in four days at that time ! It's rewarding in this field, and you of course go in lack in the others. But sometime sacrafice is necessary, you cannot serve two masters in the same time. I personnaly hate going slowly in someting I'm passionated. So I engage, my time, money, energy, disponibility etc in this field - a real priesthood. Until I'm fed up with it, with a total integration of the "need". once this intense period is over, generally this flame is no more, there is only a burning charcoil. But the passion is not over, it's more "part" of the whole.

Sometime you also can say it, depending to the person you are with. If you feel it ... this is also how you can atract someone.

The Path of Alchemy is closely linked with the Higher Intelligences of Saturn. And saturn ... generally makes you (feel) alone. And you need to be alone and focused to work with it, until a certain point.

Now, I'm loosing my grip on Alchemy, and Alchemy is loosing its on me. And I stop being an Hermit. But I'm more than ever and Alchemist now. I'm feeling undercover of course, since I have to lie by omission - of course. If ever saw the Tv show : 'The Pretender', then ... you can imagine the thing.

Fireball
07-11-2011, 12:42 PM
Two month after I started just to be interested in Alchemy, I lost my girlfriend. It just happened that way. They feel that you cannot give them what they need, and they leave you. After 4 years she has a baby. And only now I can truly understand my nature and her nature. She needed what she needed and it came as contradiction with my needs.

Alchemy deals much with death. With true death that can separate us from the “dual world” (quite uncomfortable place to be for us - alchemists :)).

Only after true death we can maybe live a life of choice (True choice - To come back to this lifetime or maybe to choose another one but without the regular (vulgar) addiction to life, to the body and to the game.

Girls mostly seek out life. They are not interested in death (they could have curiosity, but that's not enough to truly walk the path of the alchemist). They usually refuse to deal with death of any kind. Instead, they continue to participate in the game called "more of everything" (More shopping, more babies, more small talks, etc. etc.)! They are designed this way - they bring babies and continue life in this world. It's the nature of their bodies and their genetics. Of course there are exceptions, but we are not talking about them right now.

Here's the main conflict between Alchemist and girlfriend. Death and Life. Alchemist cannot continue this life. He has to embrace death and have to let go of this dual world. Maybe the acceptance of the fact that you will never get what your body needs most - opposite gender (preferably with big boobs :)) - can bring you Peace of Mind. If you accept the fact that this world cannot give you what you really, really need - then you move on and stop to expect.

And then the Magic comes in... You receive what you need, whatever it is (even if you don't 'like' it), when you already gave up on search for anything. But that, of course, has to come from within. You have to know from within that it works that way.

Maybe you can find a true spirit companion for the path of alchemy, but I don't think it absolutely has to be a gilrfriend or opposite gender.

But if you are in alchemy and need an 'opposite' or someone to 'complete' you, maybe you are only an alchemist researcher and will remain so all your life. Nevertheless, if you are dealing with death, or just research it, it will automatically (with time) push away from you what desperately wants to 'live'.

There are good friends that can become a spirit family if you are lucky, and I think gender is not important here.

And if you really need sex...

There are prostitutes that can give you that, if you have a little money. :)

Albion
07-11-2011, 04:21 PM
I enjoyed your post, Fireball.
___________________________

Speaking only for myself: Personal experience has informed me, in no uncertain terms, that I can only lay hold of, or explore, a certain degree of depth after a lengthy period of absolute continence, and that the subtle-energy/ojas loss of sexual activity, along with the attendant deepening of sensory attachments [re-etching of particular physical energy grooves] are, when all is said and done, more or less crippling to who/what I am in my greater design, and therefore utterly contraindicated - for me.

I don’t doubt that others may well draw energy or even revelation through sex. Walter Russell certainly supported this perspective - and only had negative things to say about celibacy. Everyone has to find what works best for them. I’m just presenting this angle [and sharing these links] in case it may benefit someone out there.

http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Energy-...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t (http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Energy-Yoga-Elisabeth-Haich/dp/0041490185/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t)

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...rya_purity.htm (http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_laying_the_foundations_yoga_celibacy_brahmachary a_purity.htm)

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...ultivation.htm (http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_celibacy_difficulties_in_spiritual_cultivation.h tm)

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...meditation.htm (http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_sexual_desires_are_a%20problem_for_meditation.ht m)

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga...on_kung-fu.htm (http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_the_problem_of_sex_and_spiritual_cultivation_kun g-fu.htm)



--------------------------------------------------------

solomon levi
07-11-2011, 06:27 PM
LOL!
At the end of my black phase, I "lost" my girlfriend, my job, my best friend (other than my girlfriend) and my living space,
not to mention how much of my mind I was losing. This is good stuff.
You are right to connect/associate it with death.

If i can make this any easier, you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.
We tend to focus on the parts we miss or we liked and ignore the parts that tore us apart -
the parts that were effort, control, unloveable, shadow ("not-me", but it is... "rather be whole than good" - Carl Jung), etc.

The sooner you let this be what it is, the sooner you can attract a better relationship that is more whole.
That's what i learned - a big part of what i learned anyway. :)

Fireball
07-11-2011, 08:51 PM
you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.

Exactly! I have already realized this....


The sooner you let this be what it is, the sooner you can attract a better relationship that is more whole..

Agree on this, with one possible exception. It happens Sooner or Later anyway. You cannot hurry with "letting go" as well as you cannot delay it forever...

Black Sclera
07-18-2011, 10:28 PM
The interests of women are just as varied as the interests of men and its naive to think they do not concern themselves with such matters as spirituality, philosophy, science ect.
If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow. The dynamics of finding a good mate are the same as finding a good friend, and intellectual similarity's are not as important as compatibility of personality's.

aaaand its also fun to mix with others you wouldn't normally think to mingle with. All ppl and all relationships are unique and you must learn to put your ego aside and revel in the chaos because there is always much to learn.

Awani
07-19-2011, 12:57 AM
If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow.

The above quote is a very good point, in fact most of the world is pretty shallow...

:cool:

III
09-08-2011, 04:35 AM
I feel truely blessed to have deep love relationship with my partner in an Alchemy of LOVE. She was brought to me when she was seeking and I was willing to take on the WORK with her. It was coincidence control that brought us together. We don't "date" as such yet we do many things together. We become closer and closer.

solomon levi
09-15-2011, 07:10 PM
I have a relationship with an alchemist... myself.
And it's no picnic. But I wouldn't give it up for the world.

There's lots of hard times. The first step is dissolution. To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor. Often times I've wished there were someone to turn to for help from
this, like a psychiatrist or something. But I know I know myself more than they would.
Besides, there's no helping truth. Truth hurts - like a chick coming out of its eggshell.
Truth is hard. But it's also beautiful. Truth is ios/poison/solvent/vinegar. It will kill the king
when poured in to his ear (Shakespeare). Truth will undo you and this undoing makes relationship
hard. Can you blame them? Hell, I have a hard time relating to myself sometimes. But it's a love affair.
Yin and yang, the known and the unknown, the "hard truth" of mars and the beautiful embrace of venus.
YHVH - "I am that which I am becoming."
Is there any other game?
I can't wait to see what's next.

Last night was a "hard" night. But there was lots of beauty in it too, and deep, deep feeling.
I often feel crazy. And I often feel "this is the best day of my life." I've never been so alive.
And conflicted. :)

Karl
09-17-2011, 06:09 AM
I have a relationship with an alchemist... myself.
And it's no picnic. But I wouldn't give it up for the world.

There's lots of hard times. The first step is dissolution. To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor. Often times I've wished there were someone to turn to for help from
this, like a psychiatrist or something. But I know I know myself more than they would.
Besides, there's no helping truth. Truth hurts - like a chick coming out of its eggshell.
Truth is hard. But it's also beautiful. Truth is ios/poison/solvent/vinegar. It will kill the king
when poured in to his ear (Shakespeare). Truth will undo you and this undoing makes relationship
hard. Can you blame them? Hell, I have a hard time relating to myself sometimes. But it's a love affair.
Yin and yang, the known and the unknown, the "hard truth" of mars and the beautiful embrace of venus.
YHVH - "I am that which I am becoming."
Is there any other game?
I can't wait to see what's next.

Last night was a "hard" night. But there was lots of beauty in it too, and deep, deep feeling.
I often feel crazy. And I often feel "this is the best day of my life." I've never been so alive.
And conflicted. :)

I'm totally in love with you Solomon Levi. By that i mean I'm totally in love with myself. And I want to annihilate myself. Anyway, thank you, carry on. And I am conflicted. And in love. Conflicted. Destroy. Love.

Andro
09-17-2011, 06:27 AM
I'm totally in love with you Solomon Levi. By that i mean I'm totally in love with myself. And I want to annihilate myself. Anyway, thank you, carry on. And I am conflicted. And in love. Conflicted. Destroy. Love.

Same here, minus the conflict. No contradiction (for me) between loving oneself and wanting to annihilate oneself. After all, what IS love all about ??? :)

Does the Phoenix LOVE itself ? ? ? ? ?

Sending my love and destruction to both of you (SL and Karl) - and to myself as well...

'choose life'... What a silly slogan... (to me, of course... everyone is entitled to their own brand of choicelessness :cool:)

When I feel the 'time' is fit, I will expand more on Alchemical Suicide (not vulgar).

For now (in this context of 'Alchemical Suicide') - I will just say that DNA is not something to be enhanced/upgraded/made superconductive/awakened/etc... These are all new age fantasies...

DNA needs to be DONE AWAY WITH. We, All/One of us, as pure energy EXPRESSION, have NO DNA ! ! !

No matter how enhanced/conductive/etc - DNA is still an impediment.

And if you need an alchemical partner OUTSIDE yourself (NO MATTER what you sexual orientation is) - sorry, but you still have quite a ways to go... (IMEO, of course)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Hello, everyone please welcome the ascended master and his lovely wife.'

ROFL :D :D :D
_____________________

More later. Maybe.

solomon levi
09-19-2011, 06:51 PM
:)
Thank you so much Karl and Androgynus.
I appreciate the connection.

I'd like to state again, in slightly different words, the challenge of relationship, IMO, just for clarity's sake
and to possibly save others from some confusion and pain.
I think it is a must that one lose one's identity, especially the certainty of knowing yourself,
or others or anything. I do not see that one can become magickal without this fluidity,
this mercurial nature. As Castaneda said (through the character of don Juan),
"There are three precepts of the rule of stalking:
The first precept of the rule is that everything that surrounds us is an unfathomable mystery.
The second precept of the rule is that we must try to unravel these mysteries, but without ever hoping to accomplish this.
The third, that a warrior, aware of the unfathomable mystery that surrounds him and aware of his duty to try to unravel it,
takes his rightful place among mysteries and regards himself as one. Consequently, for a warrior there is no end to the
mystery of being, whether being means being a pebble, or an ant, or oneself. That is a warrior's humbleness.
One is equal to everything."

Well, being a mystery to oneself is a pretty unstable place for the apprentice.
Relationships are based on relating. If you're an unknown, it's difficult for others to relate to you.
And you will probably go through a period of disdain towards the known and people who think they know;
especially anyone trying to tell you who you are while you're endeavoring to be a mystery.
In relationships, security is derived from knowing eachother, being defined.
It's really difficult/rare to do this with another person, even if they are on the same path.

After you've travelled this path of self-deconstruction for a time, you won't blame anyone
for not wanting to do this themselves, or with you. It's not for most people. I wouldn't wish it on anyone,
because it is the end of your life as you knew it, and the reality of that is far more shocking than the words.
I would really be interested in a study of how many "mystics" or whatever we call them, commit suicide.
There are quite a few famous ones well-known, and probably thousands unknown. It's really difficult IMO.
You can't help becoming crazy if you survive, and that crazy doesn't really "belong" in this world,
and yet one's freedom hinges upon it.
In my personal experience, this is the reason for the phrase "terribilis est locus iste" (this place is terrible).

To recap - one's magickal ability is proportionally related to one's fluidity or ability to be without definition/identity,
or ability to merge into the All One, which means you are no longer you (nama-rupa: name and form).
To get there one must go through alchemical death/black phase, Jungian deconstruction and integration,
Castaneda's "sorecerers' description", christian baptism/rebirth, etc... there are many names.
I should say that one is not really going through this death to get to magick - that shouldn't be on your
mind anyway; to try to do this in order to acquire something is not a good idea. You rather do it as a process
of negation IMO, as Krishnamurti taught:
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-daily-quote/20100405.php

Maybe more later, but I think I covered what I wanted to share.
Thanks for your attention/consideration. :)

Albion
10-05-2011, 01:46 AM
Solomon-Levi wrote:
To dissolve this gold/apollo/self/ego-identity
is truly a Herculean labor.

[Please excuse this diversion from the main topic, but just a day or so before you posted the above, a copy of The Little Book of Hercules: Physical Aspects of the Spiritual Path arrived in my mail. I was going to mention it at the time - due to the coincidence - but thought I should read it first. Excellent book. Given your cultivation experience, you might enjoy it.]

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Hercules-Physical-Spiritual/dp/0972190716/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317778378&sr=1-1

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51D9vBJfiCL._SL160_.jpg

solomon levi
10-05-2011, 02:40 AM
Looks really good!

Alchemical
10-05-2011, 10:00 AM
If i can make this any easier, you should realize that as much as you miss her, you're really better off.
We tend to focus on the parts we miss or we liked and ignore the parts that tore us apart -
the parts that were effort, control, unloveable, shadow ("not-me", but it is... "rather be whole than good" - Carl Jung), etc.


I recently got back with my girlfriend after we broke up two months ago and it's far from perfect at the moment. When I'm not with her, I miss her, even though when we are together and have a disagreement it fuels very negative emotions in me that I know for a fact is not doing my spiritual journey any good whatsoever. I need to let go, I know this.

My girlfriend has no interest in what I'm doing spiritually. She's Christian and doesn't understand how I can have love and belief in Jesus along with the things I'm doing, like Alchemy for example. I can never find the time to talk to her truly about my path, she is too wrapped up in the world. Constantly on twitter/facebook, shopping, gossiping, whatever... there is nothing wrong with leading a life like that, but it's no good for me.

By the way, I sometimes travel to Glastonbury, England and there my friends is where you will find the weird girls you so desire :D

Lapis Solaris
10-05-2011, 12:27 PM
The interests of women are just as varied as the interests of men and its naive to think they do not concern themselves with such matters as spirituality, philosophy, science ect.
If anyone comes to such a conclusion based upon their interactions with the opposite sex id ask you to then observe the verity of interests in your own sex and more then likely you'll see them to be just as shallow. The dynamics of finding a good mate are the same as finding a good friend, and intellectual similarity's are not as important as compatibility of personality's.

aaaand its also fun to mix with others you wouldn't normally think to mingle with. All ppl and all relationships are unique and you must learn to put your ego aside and revel in the chaos because there is always much to learn.

I very much enjoyed this comment, out of all the posts on this thread. :)

Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex. It depends on your compatibility with that person. Of course, if they aren't open to understanding such things then this does cause a problem, but that is the person and their choices, and therefore their compatibility with you. The Art that you practice is a part of who you are. What I'm saying is that perhaps it isn't the practice, but rather the personal intent, heart, mind and soul that has decided that you, given the opportunity, would pick up that practice. Therefore if they aren't compatible with who you REALLY are (having been tested, showing the fruit of your true self or what you would do if given the choice), then of course they won't be attracted to you. ;)

And Alchemical, I am also a Christian Alchemist and a female, so coming from my perspective I understand that her view is very common and infact I cannot discuss Alchemy (or anything particularly interesting to do with spirituality because even that is considered "wrong") with most of my friends, especially some females, but also especially males too (as it depends on the person in question, not the gender). I am very careful as to who I discuss things with, and also what I discuss, in consideration to their cultural background and what they've been told. I try to sneak around the subject and what it is associated with, and bring it up as a Truth with the understanding behind that and logic that goes with it. I hope that in this way I will be able to help their understanding and aid them in catching up with the subject without realising what it is in association with. "Getting to them first", in a sense, before it comes from another angle which is completely dogmatic and scripturally out of context (in association with what the Bible teaches).

I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

Alchemical
10-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex. It depends on your compatibility with that person. Of course, if they aren't open to understanding such things then this does cause a problem, but that is the person and their choices, and therefore their compatibility with you. The Art that you practice is a part of who you are. What I'm saying is that perhaps it isn't the practice, but rather the personal intent, heart, mind and soul that has decided that you, given the opportunity, would pick up that practice. Therefore if they aren't compatible with who you REALLY are (having been tested, showing the fruit of your true self or what you would do if given the choice), then of course they won't be attracted to you. ;)

And Alchemical, I am also a Christian Alchemist and a female, so coming from my perspective I understand that her view is very common and infact I cannot discuss Alchemy (or anything particularly interesting to do with spirituality because even that is considered "wrong") with most of my friends, especially some females, but also especially males too (as it depends on the person in question, not the gender). I am very careful as to who I discuss things with, and also what I discuss, in consideration to their cultural background and what they've been told. I try to sneak around the subject and what it is associated with, and bring it up as a Truth with the understanding behind that and logic that goes with it. I hope that in this way I will be able to help their understanding and aid them in catching up with the subject without realising what it is in association with. "Getting to them first", in a sense, before it comes from another angle which is completely dogmatic and scripturally out of context (in association with what the Bible teaches).

I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

Thanks for your reply.

I am in now way saying this is just a girl thing. I wouldn't even consider trying to explain anything of my spiritual life to my mates (guy friends). They see my books and just laugh it off and call me weird. It doesn't bother me! But it's totally different when it comes to a relationship, makes things difficult.

Lapis Solaris
10-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I am in now way saying this is just a girl thing. I wouldn't even consider trying to explain anything of my spiritual life to my mates (guy friends). They see my books and just laugh it off and call me weird. It doesn't bother me! But it's totally different when it comes to a relationship, makes things difficult.

I apologise for not making myself clear. Mentioning the gender relativism was a more collective response to the earlier posts, as well as to yours. I didn't mean for it all to be referring to you. Only what is relevant. :)

And I see where you are coming from. I personally have made the resolve to avoid involving myself in a relationship where there are clashing of such views (which, in my eyes, are quite significant).

Andro
10-05-2011, 01:47 PM
Personally I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex.

Or to the same sex, or both sexes - depending on one's orientation.


I couldn't say why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions, what they've been brought up to believe or told by some people (with some sort of back-up to their teachings) and look at things from a different angle in order to fully understand. It is unknown, and therefore I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing. Don't ask me why they do it, I haven't the slightest idea. All I know is that it is very common and they seem to do it. And this makes it very difficult to find those who don't.

You ask: "Why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions?"

Could it be the same reason you wouldn't put aside jesus, your christian belief system or the bible, for example?

I suggest you research the posts of my friend Solomon Levi, the ones where he discusses the issue of belief(s).


I think they're scared to know so put a label on it and that's their justification to remove themselves from any burden of knowing.

Aren't you doing the exact same thing, by putting a label on yourself?


I am also a Christian

For your consideration.

Joy
10-05-2011, 01:56 PM
Hey together,

We have the same problems like men. There is nobody arround me who has understanding
about alchemy. I don`t talk about it in my family and I learned to live two lives. Joy

Lapis Solaris
10-06-2011, 03:35 AM
Or to the same sex, or both sexes - depending on one's orientation.

Well the original thread was in relation to whether females would be attracted to Alchemist males, so I was replying to the original topic.



You ask: "Why certain people do not want to understand or put aside their prejudices and traditions?"

Could it be the same reason you wouldn't put aside jesus, your christian belief system or the bible, for example?

I suggest you research the posts of my friend Solomon Levi, the ones where he discusses the issue of belief(s).

Aren't you doing the exact same thing, by putting a label on yourself?

For your consideration.

My comments about people not putting aside their prejudices and traditions is in relation to understanding others. Christianity is my foundation, which I do not see necessary to abolish in order to see things from a different perspective. In my example I was referring to the attitude by which they stick to the traditional ideas that someone else has come up with such as "mysticism must be a dark or evil art", or something to that effect.
That would be like asking me to stop being friends with someone in order to understand their enemies. I don't have to drop my relationships to do that (I don't think so, anyway). ;)

In this instance, the label is a description of who I am, not a label of what is thought of it. Such as "good" or "evil". That is up to perspective in this case, I believe. :)

Andro
10-06-2011, 04:04 AM
Well the original thread was in relation to whether females would be attracted to Alchemist males, so I was replying to the original topic.

The original thread title/topic is: Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

This does not mean that the issue of having a relationship with an alchemist is limited to opposite genders.

Most people simply default on hetero when speaking generally. This needs to be corrected IMO, unless it's your own personal opposite gender story.

But if you apply the concept in general:

I don't think that practicing Alchemy has ANYTHING to do with how attractive you will be to the opposite sex
Then, you must take into account that there are all sorts of relationships.


My comments about people not putting aside their prejudices and traditions is in relation to understanding others. Christianity is my foundation, which I do not see necessary to abolish in order to see things from a different perspective. In my example I was referring to the attitude by which they stick to the traditional ideas that someone else has come up with such as "mysticism must be a dark or evil art", or something to that effect.
That would be like asking me to stop being friends with someone in order to understand their enemies. I don't have to drop my relationships to do that (I don't think so, anyway). ;)

In this instance, the label is a description of who I am, not a label of what is thought of it. Such as "good" or "evil". That is up to perspective in this case, I believe. :)

When it fits your comfort zone, you call it your foundation.

When less convenient - you call it prejudice or tradition.

I personally see no difference.

But you are right, it's a matter of perspective :)

Lapis Solaris
10-06-2011, 04:19 AM
The original thread title/topic is: Relationship with an Alchemist... No thanks?!

This does not mean that the issue of having a relationship with an alchemist is limited to opposite genders.

Most people simply default on hetero when speaking generally. This needs to be corrected IMO, unless it's your own personal opposite gender story.

But if you apply the concept in general:

Then, you must take into account that there are all sorts of relationships.



When it fits your comfort zone, you call it your foundation.

When less convenient - you call it prejudice or tradition.

I personally see no difference.

But you are right, it's a matter of perspective :)

"In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?" - Coming from a male. I'm not sure what you think, but to me that hints on heterosexuality in this case. ;)

Andro
10-06-2011, 04:28 AM
"In this thread i want to examine the attractive and repulsive Power of Alchemy from the feminine perspective . Does the Universal science works also on women?" - Coming from a male. I'm not sure what you think, but to me that hints on heterosexuality in this case. ;)

I missed this sentence, I only related to the thread title.. Mea culpa.

Nevertheless, the topic just got a bit wider by adding an extra aspect to it :)

Ghislain
10-06-2011, 07:42 AM
Hi it's that devils advocate again...

I am sure that men can have a feminine perspective too...

Can they? :confused:

Ghislain

Awani
10-06-2011, 04:53 PM
I am sure that men can have a feminine perspective too...

That's what psychedelics are for (and cannabis in enough doses), LOL!

:cool:

Andro
10-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Could we be converging towards an actual 'Answer' to the question this thread poses?

Is the the Alchemist's ultimate/perfect relationship to be had with his own 'Shadow Self', which we could also refer to as his/her inner 'opposite' gender?

Or, in other words, a perfectly homogenized union between our outwardly expressed Individuality and our inwardly accessed Universality?

A Philosophical relationship in which there is no longer a need for an external (surrogate) stimulus to make us feel 'complete'?

solomon levi
10-06-2011, 05:47 PM
A true alchemist is precisely an androgyne and has both views, male and female, available.
This is why alchemy is all about sun/moon, male/female, agent/patient, etc.
If we take the translation as Hals Cheumia, we have two words which refer to an androgyne:
Salt, which is the neuter of and acid and an alkali; and cheumia which means fusion or melting.
The same is implied in Hatha yoga, which means literally "sun-moon joining".

And the secret of alchemy is all about love. You cannot force the QE (quintessence), mercury
(through fire, acids, etc... violence) but it appears freely when one knows it and prepares
a bridechamber for it. :)

So for those of you whom your lover does not truly know or accept, and your dearest spiritual
practices must be kept secret... doesn't sound like love to me. Come out of the closet. Be who you are.
Let relationships fall apart/away if they must. How will you find better (true/real) if you don't?
Love actually is not a compromise - that's bull.
There is compromise in relationship, but not compromising who you are!
To thine own self be true.
Love and accept your beautiful self - ALL of it. Then see what relationship prospects appear.

III
10-10-2011, 10:08 PM
It became obvious to me early on that if I was going to have a successful relationship with a young lady (definition changed as I aged, now "middle aged" lady is fine and dandy) the woman involved would also have to be involved with alchemy. I have had two long lasting alchemical relationships, a marriage of 33 (20 years before relationship went south with my health) years and a student>apprentice>partner over a total of about 15 years with the relationship being renegotiated at each changeover point. Prior to marriage and during I had several shorter relationships ranging from 18 hours to several months (generally not sexual). Each one involved a young lady with sexual and/or death traumas that needed clearing and they were just at the point of needing help in that. I was willing to provide such assistance with no strings attached. Not one of them was about my ego gratification in any way. Each situation was very intense and worthwhile. I had my own traumas to deal with and they were helpful in that. Each one was instant "recognition" of "she is the one for right now" and we both had it simultaneously. And each was accompanied with a strong attraction to each other with the recognition. Several were literally brought to me by a third party including a least a couple of long dead Yogis. I also had multiple deep interactions with men, not sexual, delivering information to them, helping them clear or recognize various such things and helping them understand various experiences. These also ranged from years of relationship to a few hours.

My experience is that there are a lot of people out there who want and need a relationship with a suitable Alchemist/Goddess-priest. Maybe it was that I am an intiated priest of Goddess rather than the Alchemist as such. But those two are difficult to separate and are not separate functions, just a different understanding of things. I never had to go looking as such. I had to be open to working with another and make myself available to be found. I have recognized that such a person was present at a large airport or a convention and just followed "the scent" and found them by waundering around until homing in on them. On a two week vacation I typically run into 2 or more persons who need my services as a priest/alchemist. It can range from a couple of hours with conversation and Shaktipat to much more.

I'm not sure whether anybody else will consider this helpful on the "relationship" with an alchemist question. What I get out of looking at it all seems to be that if the other person NEEDS what the alchemist/priest can offer and that it can benefit both parties, then there is a lot of attraction.

Tesposinus
11-05-2011, 04:51 PM
A somewhat late reply to this thread, but here goes anyway.

I'm married and although my wife is not an alchemist (nor does she share any form of interest in the esoteric or the spiritual), she knows what I am and I have my lab in the futon closet in our bedroom! :) She does not have much interest in alchemy, though she will sometimes ask a question or two, but she respects this love & passion of mine, and my strict rule of "don't open the futon closet!!!" :D So I have had no problem finding love in spite of the occult sciences being a part of who I am, and this having been so for most of my life. As has been said before in this thread, I too believe it is simply a matter of finding the right women. Look for the wrong type in the wrong place and you will only leave "empty handed"; search for the type that will be right for YOU - not your ego - and in the places where such women are found, I believe one would have no greater problems than any other regular Joe.

My 2 cents...

Donna Matrix
11-07-2011, 12:35 AM
just a note here. I am glad my SO does not share my passion, as the art is something all the more mine. He is very helpful nonetheless, especially with procuring the equipment. I love this art deeply and my time in my lab is very sacred indeed. In the end we all face our creator alone. Maybe alchemists are ahead of the curb.

A long time ago I gave up on sharing the deepest parts of my passion with a man, since it was neverr directed in that direction anyways, because my truest love was for God. Alchemy is God's gift back to me.

MarkostheGnostic
11-07-2011, 12:50 AM
I'm marrying my long-time fiancee/Soror Mystica/Psychedeic Sister on 11/11/11 @ 11:11 AM, if all goes smoothly. We are going to read The Emerald Tablet, exchange Forevermore® Goblets of Red & White wine. We will stand in our living room beneath the Dragons of Mercury that flank the symbol of Solar-Lunar Coincidentia Oppositorum. Consummation scheduled foe 2:22 PM and/or 11:11 PM. Rose does not read what I read, (but she'll patiently listen if I want to read something, and she'll discuss how it fits into her preferred models). Neither does she practice laboratory procedures, but she'll usually take the resultant physical substances with alchemical import.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?309-Soror-Mystica

Awani
11-07-2011, 03:16 AM
Great, at the same time we are doing our session here in Amsterdam. I predict this date will be used by many of the esoteric community for different experiences.

An alchemical wedding, ey:)

III
11-07-2011, 07:07 PM
I see an important difference in "relationship" definitions and practices here determined by the alchemy each is doing. The alchemy I'm doing requires the work with another. Our very bodies and selves are our labs and the only required apparatus. Many here speak of their relationships being outside of the alchemy. For me the relationship is essential for the alchemy. It's not that it is the only alchemy, others exist. If I am going to do this alchemy, then it requires another participant. In my memory, it is the one I have at last arrived at, the one that isn't solitary.

MarkostheGnostic
11-13-2011, 06:06 AM
I'm marrying my long-time fiancee/Soror Mystica/Psychedeic Sister on 11/11/11 @ 11:11 AM, if all goes smoothly. We are going to read The Emerald Tablet, exchange Forevermore® Goblets of Red & White wine. We will stand in our living room beneath the Dragons of Mercury that flank the symbol of Solar-Lunar Coincidentia Oppositorum. Consummation scheduled for 2:22 PM and/or 11:11 PM. Rose does not read what I read, (but she'll patiently listen if I want to read something, and she'll discuss how it fits into her preferred models). Neither does she practice laboratory procedures, but she'll usually take the resultant physical substances with alchemical import.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?309-Soror-Mystica


Copied from Facebook:

http://i40.tinypic.com/wjur7b.jpg

Well, it's official, I'm legally married as of 11:11:11 AM on 11/11/11. One of the witnesses monitored ESTime on the laptop, at which point, we kissed to seal the deal. We took turns reading 'The Emerald Tablet,' took sips from two goblets of Red and White wine, then exchanged goblets. Our friend, a Notary Public, read the script of the old-fashioned marriage vows, including the "to death do us part" part. We stood at our dining room table, on which stands a statue of the Egyptian Thoth - the 'Word of God,' and I placed a model of the Qabalistic Tree of Life in front of Thoth.

Synchronistically, when I set this ritual space up, something made me go to the front door. When I opened it, there were nine Ibis birds - the bird which is Thoth - on my lawn!!! This is the 2nd time in 15 years that I've seen Ibises in my yard! I scattered oats for them.

It is a full Moon, and this marriage is symbolized alchemically by the Marriage of the Sun & Moon, Tiphereth & Yesod on the Qabalistic Tree.
Additionally, Venus and Jupiter were the two brightest objects in last night's sky besides the full Moon. Venus is the Heart chakra, Jupiter is the Genital chakra, the Yoga correspondence to the positions of Tiphereth & Yesod on the Tree.

Thanks for everyone's blessings and wishes!
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________
NOTE: Please notice that THIS post is numbered 222! This number is mentioned above, but consummation did not take place as scheduled at 2:22 PM, it did 'climax' at exactly 11:11 PM however! 222 is the information desk extension at the Borders Books & Music where I met my wife. She later moved to the Ft. Lauderdale store - Store # 222! My doctoral dissertation, completed in 1983 is 222 pages long. I see 222 regularly on clocks, odometers, and once I got receipt #222 at Taco Bell® and the amount was $4.44! The Meru Project has shown me that 222 is a culmination of a Qabalistic in-spiring to The Center. I've just had my mind blown - again! :D +++ AMEN +++

Andro
11-13-2011, 02:38 PM
In the context of this thread, I would like to add that I am in a 'ménage ŕ trois' (Threesome) Alchemical Relationship with myself.

ALL three allegorical characters depicted below, represent 'parts' of myself, as the 'Triangular' Stone that is me.

Together we are / I AM: Homogeneously United, One/None & Complete.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/Union.jpg

Personally, I don't consider any other sort of 'union' to be 'Alchemical'.

Quoth Paracelsus:


"The matter of the Philosophers’ Stone is none other than a fiery and perfect Mercury extracted by Nature and Art;
That is, the artificially prepared and true hermaphrodite Adam, and the Microcosm.
The wisest of the philosophers, Mercurius, making the same statement, called the Stone an orphan."

"The white and the red spring from one root without any intermediary.
It is dissolved by itself, it copulates by itself,
----------------------------------------------------
Marries itself and conceives in itself."

But then again, to each their own...

:cool:
---------------------------------------------------

Albion
11-13-2011, 03:17 PM
No Esmeralda for me.

[Oh, well… never did meet a dame who could appreciate my interests, anyway.]

Fortunately, I can always take sanctuary in my work...

http://www.claqueta.es/wp-content/uploads/010309-1722-williamdiet6.jpg

MarkostheGnostic
11-13-2011, 04:34 PM
Albion: LMAO!!! :D

MarkostheGnostic
11-13-2011, 05:12 PM
Androgynus:

http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p109g/internal/j_anima.html

I think that you short-change your own sense of identity. There is duality, and there is unity. Of the unity, almost nothing can be said. Simple Pure Identity, I AMness. Of duality, a great deal can been said - and done. Reluctance to acknowledge duality does not more readily actualize unity, it creates an egoic solipcism. Wholeness-Holiness-Holy Matrimony is like nuclear chemistry, i.e., fusion of nuclei in a greater whole in the Great Chain of Being. It is more inclusive than solitary Realization, and it is depicted mythically in all of the great cultures: Isis & Osiris (the Pharoah and his sister-wife), Parvati & Siva, Sita & Ram, George & Grace :) .

Ordinary relationships (between unconscious people, as Jung points out), are not marriages in a depth-psychology (or alchemical) sense. They are like the covalent electron bonds between atoms. Some bonds are clearly stronger than others, some bonds are easily broken, and some bonds (say, the triple bonds in acetylene) yield tremendous energy when broken. But outer-shell electron bonds (some atoms with missing electrons are very needy, just like people can be), can never come close to nuclear fusion for bonding strength and energy output.

I have received considerable training and analysis in the Jungian school, and the models there have been extremely helpful in my own quest for balance between the Four Elements, which translate also into the Psychological Functions: Thinking, Feeling, Intuition, Sensing. My Soror and I are both INTP Types according to the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. We extravert Intuition with this type, and introvert Thinking. Feeling is our Inferior Function, and Sensing is our tertiary function. INTPs account for no more than 3% of the population in the USA. Being in a marriage with each other elicits more Feeling (we are often regarded as being 'cold'), and contributing to intrapsychic balance. As to Sensing, I am perhaps more balanced than she is. She may get an immediate and accurate Intuition about the character of a person, but be unable to remember what [s]he was wearing because of a weaker Sensing function. I do more with my hands (carpentry, plumbing, basic electric, gardening, painting, repairing, experimenting, etc.).

Being in close physical proximity is rudimentary. The marriage is between two conscious personalities (egos), and between each of our unconscious inner beings (Anima & Animus), AS WELL AS our intrapsychic, introverted, self-contained microcosms. There are at least Four point of Psyche interacting here. A Hierosgamos of this nature is indispensable for Individuation in most instances. The solitary path (like Ramana Maharshi), is a rare achievement and must be claimed voluntarily, not burdened by reluctance or inability to bond.

The social domain IS a dualistic domain, which is the arrangement in proximity of discrete physical bodies. The social arrangement sets the 'setting' for deeper psychic interactions, eventually moving into the 'set' of spiritual union. I still have much opportunity to sit in lotus position, or practice 8-Limbed Yoga, or wear my Museum Replica® cowled monastic robe if I want to Realize that archetype for a while, yet I prefer the best of both worlds. Otherwise, I could have lived as a Benedictine, Trappist, or Capuchin Reformed Franciscan monk - all of which I was invited to join. I chose not to abandon the company of women. I'm certain that even if I was not heterosexual, I would still not have taken up a life of poverty, chastity, and obedience in a monastery of men. But, as you say, "To each his own."

http://i44.tinypic.com/2nbap1z.jpg

Andro
11-13-2011, 07:39 PM
The solitary path [...] must be claimed voluntarily, not burdened by reluctance or inability to bond.

I completely and utterly disagree. There is nothing voluntary or claimed about one's NEEDED PATH (as opposed to 'surrogate' paths, too many to list)

You either fight it and subsequently drown the resulting agony in self-denial, OR you surrender to it.

And in surrendering, there is NO burden. Only release.


I would still not have taken up a life of poverty, chastity, and obedience in a monastery of men.

Neither have I done such a thing, although the expression of my creative potential seems to have moved on by itself from sexual to other avenues.

This did not happen by a 'voluntary' path decision, it simply happened gradually and autonomously (and I didn't fight it), and not before I had already gone to all the sexual (and other) extremes I needed to experience in my younger years. Self-denial was never an issue for me.

Neither do I live a life of poverty... And certainly not self-imposed... I live quite comfortably, although I am not even remotely 'wealthy'. My needs are simple and not many, but they are met.

Obedience... The only thing I 'obey' is my own Inner Voice.

I also do not feel the need for someone to form a union of the kind you are talking about in your detailed marriage posts.

I have the functions of (universal) 'Mind/Inner Voice' (see upper character in the image I posted), 'Expression' and 'Stimulus', ALL within myself.

I feel quite complete by myself in this regard, and my Inner Polarities (see the two lower - kissing - characters in the image I have posted) are quite balanced, although there is always room for improvement :)

These days I really have little to no interest in most people, except the extremely ones who 'make the cut', so to speak.

Not because I am a elitist snob (but who knows, maybe I am :)) - but I only go where I feel is NEEDED, and where 'Energy Support' is clearly present.

Otherwise, I would be generating useless 'time' for myself, not to mention supporting UN-needed and no-longer-supported reality designs, and being consequentially drained by lack of energy support.

Neither am I interested in theories/speculations, ceremonies/rituals, wordplay/number-play, etc... and I also (almost) don't feel the need to read anymore.... (I used to 'devour' books... funny how things 'change' if you let them :))

Now I have my own direct 'Instant Download' broadband connection, for everything I need to know, WHEN I need to know it.

However, I am not a complete Hermit - but I am no social butterfly either (not anymore, anyway).

I live with a small group of friends, with whom I work and share.

We DO have strong bonds, friendly, fraternal and emotionally open, but also allowing for lots of personal space and individuality.

Something quite similar to Dev's LAB Concept (http://www.deviadah.com/lab.html). Works for me.

And all of the above had nothing to do with 'voluntary path choices'.

My road has risen up to meet me.

And I simply let it.


But, as you say, "To each his own."

Exactly.

MarkostheGnostic
11-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Whatever *Shrugs* It's good that you sense your own arrogance ("elitist snob"). Humility is the obvious hallmark of spiritual maturity. Allowing others, or an other, to do things for me, has been something that took decades to learn. I have always been self-sufficient, but now I am 'self+other sufficient.' I don't know why you evidence such an appetite for "energy support." That need does not support your claim for being "quite complete by myself," in fact it is contradictory.

However, there ARE 'psychic vampyres,' because I was married to one for over a decade. She was Borderline Personality Disordered, and was an emotional 'black hole in space,' that could never be filled or satisfied. This disorder was suggested by the late psychiatrist, author, and exorcist, M. Scott Peck as being as close to a clinical diagnosis for evil as one could come (in People of the Lie). With no consistent sense of selfhood, such 'changelings' are chameilian-like. They take on the characteristics of those whom they associate with, and make unrealistic demands for 'energy,' whether its attention, emotions, finances, favors, or goods. I seem to be a Borderline magnet. :( BPD affects females over males 4:1, and are the most dreaded of psychotherapy clients. The last one I had wanted to move into my consulting room, in my home, or else she threatened to kill herself! Confrontation is the only way to deal, else you exaccerbate their abandonment issues and they may wax dangerous (like Glenn Close's BPD character in the film Fatal Attraction.In retrospect, several of my girlfriends have most likely been Borderline, including the girl with whom I fell in love for the first time. She is unable to bond with human beings in any normal way, which is typical, and lives off of her 'Johns' - a prostitute and pimp since the 80s. Perhaps you have found yourself in the midst of energy-draining beings as I have, and have become overly pre-occupied with protecting yourself from further harm. Close proximity is toxic, like Gamma radiation. Avoidance is best. Just some speculation.

Andro
11-13-2011, 09:54 PM
It's good that you sense your own arrogance ("elitist snob").

Correction: It's good that I sense my own sense of humor, even if others can't :D

I make myself laugh quite often :)


Humility is the obvious hallmark of spiritual maturity.

The terms are too problematic to address. Also, the 'humility' of a spiritually advanced individual may come across as arrogance to the UN-initiated, etc...


Allowing others, or an other, to do things for me, has been something that took decades to learn.

Point being? Sharing and energy exchange do not contradict self-sufficiency... (If that's what you mean)


I don't know why you evidence such an appetite for "energy support."

Indeed you don't :)

You'll know it when/if you feel it.

Some reality-designs receive energy support (based on 'WHAT IS NEEDED'), while others don't (or not as much).

One would need a good set of shamanic antennas to discern this. (Genuine psychics - rare - can make a good living out of this :))


That need does not support your claim for being "quite complete by myself"

See above: Self-Sufficiency 'vs.' Sharing & Energy-Exchange. It's a difficult concept to digest for most.

That's why it may appear to be 'contradictory', especially to those who are more of the 'self+other sufficient' design.


in fact it is contradictory.

No it isn't :)


Perhaps you have found yourself in the midst of energy-draining beings as I have, and have become overly pre-occupied with protecting yourself from further harm.

You're right, I have been there - but now it's a different story. The vampires haven't been an issue for years.

I just got much more selective/discerning. This can be interpreted in many ways, none of which I care to hear about. It simply works very well for me.

Just like you feel that your path works for you (provided it's not a 'surrogate path', which I hope it isn't)

All this being said... Words just mean so much less to me nowadays...

Meanwhile, enjoy your new marriage...

Cheers!
__________________________________________

PS: As always, for those less trained or less naturally predisposed to sense it, 'time' is the eventual 'aftermath witness' about what did and did not receive this 'energy support'.

See 'Southpark' - the episode with 'Captain Hindsight' :)
------------------------------------

MarkostheGnostic
11-13-2011, 11:29 PM
Thanks, and adios!

Nibiru
11-14-2011, 02:40 AM
You'll know it when/if you feel it.

Some reality-designs receive energy support (based on 'WHAT IS NEEDED'), while others don't (or not as much).

One would need a good set of shamanic antennas to discern this. (Genuine psychics - rare - can make a good living out of this :))

Hello Androgynus :) Would you mind expanding on this a little, I'm intrigued but a little confused as well.

Andro
11-14-2011, 07:54 AM
Would you mind expanding on this a little.

I don't mind expanding 1x1, but not publicly, not here.

I have already said enough to trigger the attention of whoever is NEEDED to have this extra info, while simultaneously shaking off those who don't need it at this point.

Therefore, being the 'arrogant and elitist snob' (:D) that I am, I will only go deeper into this topic with a 'select' few :cool:.

III
11-14-2011, 08:06 AM
Whatever *Shrugs* It's good that you sense your own arrogance ("elitist snob"). Humility is the obvious hallmark of spiritual maturity. Allowing others, or an other, to do things for me, has been something that took decades to learn. I have always been self-sufficient, but now I am 'self+other sufficient.' I don't know why you evidence such an appetite for "energy support." That need does not support your claim for being "quite complete by myself," in fact it is contradictory.

However, there ARE 'psychic vampyres,' because I was married to one for over a decade. She was Borderline Personality Disordered, and was an emotional 'black hole in space,' that could never be filled or satisfied. This disorder was suggested by the late psychiatrist, author, and exorcist, M. Scott Peck as being as close to a clinical diagnosis for evil as one could come (in People of the Lie). With no consistent sense of selfhood, such 'changelings' are chameilian-like. They take on the characteristics of those whom they associate with, and make unrealistic demands for 'energy,' whether its attention, emotions, finances, favors, or goods. I seem to be a Borderline magnet. :( BPD affects females over males 4:1, and are the most dreaded of psychotherapy clients. The last one I had wanted to move into my consulting room, in my home, or else she threatened to kill herself! Confrontation is the only way to deal, else you exaccerbate their abandonment issues and they may wax dangerous (like Glenn Close's BPD character in the film Fatal Attraction.In retrospect, several of my girlfriends have most likely been Borderline, including the girl with whom I fell in love for the first time. She is unable to bond with human beings in any normal way, which is typical, and lives off of her 'Johns' - a prostitute and pimp since the 80s. Perhaps you have found yourself in the midst of energy-draining beings as I have, and have become overly pre-occupied with protecting yourself from further harm. Close proximity is toxic, like Gamma radiation. Avoidance is best. Just some speculation.

Hi Markosthe Gnostic,

Person's with BPD can be a real problem. They are truely troubled people. The problem is how to protect one's self. I have worked (spiritually) with a few ladies along the way damaged in this way. These situations always seem to end with blame and hard feelings. I can't say for sure that I have ever been able to genuinely help. They come, they receive whatever needed (usually NOT what is wanted) which brought them my way and almost always immediately after that there is a blowup and goodbye. Throw in some DID for spice and it's as unstable as can be. I don't know how common it is but one sufferer of BPD with DID I know had/(has?) an outright psychotic alter.

These people can be very difficult to help.

MarkostheGnostic
11-14-2011, 12:17 PM
Hi Markosthe Gnostic,

Person's with BPD can be a real problem. They are truely troubled people. The problem is how to protect one's self. I have worked (spiritually) with a few ladies along the way damaged in this way. These situations always seem to end with blame and hard feelings. I can't say for sure that I have ever been able to genuinely help. They come, they receive whatever needed (usually NOT what is wanted) which brought them my way and almost always immediately after that there is a blowup and goodbye. Throw in some DID for spice and it's as unstable as can be. I don't know how common it is but one sufferer of BPD with DID I know had/(has?) an outright psychotic alter.

These people can be very difficult to help.

Thanks for the reification. My ex was Alcohol Dependent on Axis I, BPD on Axis II (with Antisocial and Sadistic features)! I was embarrassed, long after the initial pain of realization and divorce has subsided. I had been intentionally deceived, used and abused. When we married, I left a state where I could have been licensed at the Doctoral level (instead of at the Masters level, where I have been), and a I had been offered position with the county Dept. of Health (which meant gov't benefits), the immensity of my poor decision was crippling. I was a new grad student, and you know the saying: 'If I knew then, what I know now...'

Now, the adage about making lemonaid out of lemons, has something of an alchemical nature about it in the sense of turning something that is seemingly worthless into something valuable. I was never interested in wealth or status (although I didn't realized how important it was to save for retirement when I was young, though the 'boon' of inheritance from an aunt, helped tremendously). I am in this place for a purpose, and I have helped alleviate the suffering of many adolescents, or helped them to clarify the confusion of their life-stage, for the past quarter century. I have seen tragedies as well. I adopted the alchemical idiom of alchemy for private psychotherapy, as elucidated by the Jungian Edward Edinger.

Like the Ouroboros, life is coming full-circle on many levels. Hopefully, however, I'll be able to leave the metaphysical cycle this time around. :)

Thanks for responding!

III
11-14-2011, 08:35 PM
Thanks for the reification. My ex was Alcohol Dependent on Axis I, BPD on Axis II (with Antisocial and Sadistic features)! I was embarrassed, long after the initial pain of realization and divorce has subsided. I had been intentionally deceived, used and abused. When we married, I left a state where I could have been licensed at the Doctoral level (instead of at the Masters level, where I have been), and a I had been offered position with the county Dept. of Health (which meant gov't benefits), the immensity of my poor decision was crippling. I was a new grad student, and you know the saying: 'If I knew then, what I know now...'

Now, the adage about making lemonaid out of lemons, has something of an alchemical nature about it in the sense of turning something that is seemingly worthless into something valuable. I was never interested in wealth or status (although I didn't realized how important it was to save for retirement when I was young, though the 'boon' of inheritance from an aunt, helped tremendously). I am in this place for a purpose, and I have helped alleviate the suffering of many adolescents, or helped them to clarify the confusion of their life-stage, for the past quarter century. I have seen tragedies as well. I adopted the alchemical idiom of alchemy for private psychotherapy, as elucidated by the Jungian Edward Edinger.

Like the Ouroboros, life is coming full-circle on many levels. Hopefully, however, I'll be able to leave the metaphysical cycle this time around. :)

Thanks for responding!

Hi MarkostheGnostic,

Alcohol and other drug dependence adds a whole new level of piled higher and deeper. It's quite clear to me that I can't work with those with such dependencies and that they interfer with making real changes. Addicts lie to themselves in certain ways and protect it. In the practice of "Know Thy Self" they are self blinded and intent on remaining so.

Even back in college I refused to date girls who smoked tobacco or were clearly headed for drug dependency or alcoholism. I helped one doc develope a predictive scale of who will get into trouble on opioid pain meds (oxycodone, morphine, fentanyl mostly). They already use the info that 85% of those who get in trouble on prescribed opioids are already dependent on alcohol and/or tobacco. The additional factors I included are attitudes and beliefs about opioids and pain. I also developed a blood serum level time and immediate release opioid simulator that allows one to simulate the persons response and approximate the serum halflife for that person. Also, I have developed a medication taper program which generates a variable interval taper that breaks up the conditioning inherent in taking meds of any kind on a strict schedule. With it only those who can't take a med on a schedule have difficulty withdrawing.

Cyles tend to repeat at higher and higher levels, larger and larger magnitudes. The catch is the variations. So one in one schema. one takes "knowledge" and "understanding" and synthesizes the third position, "wisdom". Then one can take that "wisdom1" repeat it with variations for "wisdom2" and then perform the sythesis for "metawisdom1". This can be carried another step by taking "metawisdom1", "metawisdom2" and "metawisdom3" and synthecizing "hypermetawisdom1" to another dimension. When there are two of these, then the third can be synthecized and then the forth synthecized, a second level abstraction. These sequences continue growing and evolving the being. Doing an Alchemical Union with two seperate nodes of consciousness, increases the base and stability of the synthecized "third being" which is not separate but rather the combined being as in Shiva UNION Shakti = Brahma. Shiva UNION Shakti = Brahma is the macrocosm whereas what we mere humans do is the microcosm.


As androgynus said
"Neither am I interested in theories/speculations, ceremonies/rituals, wordplay/number-play, etc... and I also (almost) don't feel the need to read anymore.... (I used to 'devour' books... funny how things 'change' if you let them :))

Now I have my own direct 'Instant Download' broadband connection, for everything I need to know, WHEN I need to know it."

It is an important first step when this is attained. It is not the last step however, unless one doesn't choose to start the next sequence. That of course is purely a matter of choice, or maybe an inspired choice. I have to go with the inspired choice myself because it isn't a normal life choice. Good luck and have fun.

MarkostheGnostic
11-15-2011, 01:30 AM
Thesis-Atithesis-Sythesis: GWF Hegel

I realized long ago that next to the Oedipal-Electra dynamics underlying the choice of partner in many instances (those with phenomenologically Freudian personalities), there were two additional choices:
1) narcissistic self-mirroring (seeking a partner who reflects one's most idealized self-image, and thus is really a projection screen for mutual projections) and
2) a union of opposites.
My ex-wife served the first choice, but of course, when my projects were eventually withdrawn, and I saw who was really beneath them, I realized that she was anything but my idealized self (but rather, a negative feminine aspect of my own Jungian Anima). Over the last 15 years, my Soror Mystica has proven to reflect my own highest compassion-based ethical values, curiosity, passion to know, and other core values. Yet, on the surface of things, very different along many avenues, and not what I was seeking. Apparently, I was not was she was seeking either, but it has worked out. My egoic desires for what I was seeking, have withered in humility, and I am a better person for having engaged in this relationship.

DanceofRebirth
01-23-2012, 01:53 PM
In reading all that has been placed here, I want to simply add my voice to the multitude. I've been studying magic in differing forms for years and I can agree that it's exceedingly hard to find people of like minds who would be open to a relationship, however one person I asked about this previously mentioned something to me that I've found to be very logical and very assuring since then. She said "Do whatever you are most passionate in, find places to share it, and the person you are to be with will simply come to you when your heart is open to the experience." and when I encountered that I could only agree that it was true. I'm still single, and while life happens and things fall out exactly in the pattern that they happen to do so, it doesn't mean that there aren't people who are of like minds and interested in us as we are and for being students of the paths that we have set for ourselves. It just makes it harder than most of the 'Barbie Blondes' of the world, in both genders, to locate and connect with those whom we could create a harmonious relationship with. As long as you know yourself enough to know why you ache for the partner in all things, you're aware that you're not going outside your home ( or comfort zone) to seek them out actively, and that all things come to you in the proper time and sequence, then I see nothing wrong with it as it is. If your greatest companion shares your pillows at night, or just so happens to be your Highest Self, so be it. Just embrace that which you have in the now and don't give up on the path you've set yourself on. Climbing to the top can be a lonely road in every discipline that we are aware of. No one can do the work for you, but it can be made less lonely to have someone to share the road with. Self awareness is the greatest asset no matter which direction you take this in.

Outside of my thoughts on the matter, I really like all that Solomon Levi's been saying in these posts and the photos of the wedding from Markos (I think) were wonderful to see. Thank you all for opening up your selves on this subject.

zoas23
01-24-2012, 02:27 AM
I'm surprised about this thread. Being myself male, my experience has mostly been the opposite.

I do consider myself to be quite weird, I also know that most people perceive me as weird too.
I know that I'm not a Danny Devito, but I'm neither a Brad Pitt (not ugly faced, but neither a fashion model).
It has always been an usual experience for me that women that would be considered normal get obsessed with me and it's me the one who had to say "no"... and since I got involved with Hermetic studies, the experience of having stalkers obsessed with me became more and more usual, quite often in a way that seemed surreal. A lot of them very pretty women and a few of them not really too pretty.
Finding girls who were trying to get me has never been a problem for me (in most cases, girls who probably have no interest at all in alchemy or hermeticism)... even though I have the tendency to say "no" 100% of the times to them... and I prefer to be myself the one who says "I like you" for the first time instead of hearing that from someone.

I kinda know why this happened: I think it's because a lot of women try to get the man who seems to be impossible to get and mostly take it as a personal challenge... and then they manage to get obsessed with the challenge (to be honest, I don't think they were so interested in me, but mostly obsessed with the fact that I have said "no"... or that I had the attitude that showed that I was going to reject the offer).

Also, if I have to talk about friends, most of my friends are female... I find it quite hard to have male friends, even though I have a few male friends (in short: most males make me feel bored to death). The "Macho Culture" makes me wanna puke actually.

Also, I never even kissed a girl who didn't become my girlfriend later and, except once, never had a relationship that lasted less than a year (the only exception would be a relationship that lasted some 6 months). This also means that I never had "casual sex" in my whole life and I'm not really sorry about that.
Several of the women who were my girlfriends, became my closest friends when we broke up (to put it in numbers, four of my very closest friends have been my girlfriends in the past)... So I would say that I had several relationships that were very good even if they had to finish because of different reasons.

And I always had the golden rule of NEVER dating someone interested in hermeticism or alchemy. For some reason I didn't want that. And my interest in hermeticism and alchemy has never been a problem in my love life when I had girlfriends who were not interested on these subjects, but could respect the fact that I was.

And then my current girlfriend, who has been with me for almost 2 years by now... she managed to tear apart my "golden rule" of not having relationships with alchemists. The very first time she mentioned that she was indeed interested in alchemy was maybe some 3 or 4 months AFTER we were already a couple... and I found out that even though I was more educated than her about hermeticism as a whole, she knew by far more than me about practical (laboratory/external) alchemy. And it was mostly her the one who encouraged me to set up my own lab.
I'm not sorry at all about the fact that she is indeed an alchemist.
And even though we sometimes talk about alchemy, during an "average" day we mostly don't talk about that, but about other subjects.
When we discuss about something, quite often she uses alchemical metaphores to find a solution... and I like that... such thing helps me to think better.
(I also have the intention of getting married to her in the future. I do absolutely love her).

Also, I know several couples in which the male is an alchemist and the female has less than zero interest on the subject, but has no problems with the interests of her partner.
I know a few couples in which both the male and the female have an interest in alchemy or are alchemists.
I can't really remember a couple in which the female was an alchemist and the male had no interest on the subject (I'm not saying that such thing isn't possible, I simply don't know any couple like that).

solomon levi
01-25-2012, 02:49 AM
Thanks for the mention Dance of Rebirth. :)
Beautiful name choice.

To update and share my perspectives on relationship, I agree about being oneself and someone will arrive.
But, yes, we should also be open to what arrives not being a someone as we generally think.
I love relationships. It's been, shall I say "educational" that I haven't had one for years after having them
all my life. But what has been in the absence of a female lover is a greater awareness of spirit and a
relationship with my Muse/Genius, etc. This isn't my choice - it's just what is.

I think relationship serves as a catalyst. Relationship by definition (or by seeing) is a form of self-understanding,
self-definition. The forms that relationship manifests in are proportional/reflective to one's self-definition.
As your knowing yourself defines you in broader and broader spheres, so a reflective relationship will be
with fewer and fewer rules, boundaries and limitations. If that should manifest as one person, that person will
be very undefined and reflect aspects of all persons, as you are learning to reflect the all and exclude nothing.

I wonder how many universal people are out there. I wonder what such a relationship can be like. I imagine
it won't be much different if there is a partner or not. I imagine maybe I already have this.
Wow. I feel love-stoned. :) Thanks Solomon-Muse! :)

Andro
09-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Flamel, Casanova (http://www.walksofitaly.com/blog/background/casanova-the-lover-venice-italy) and Paracelsus were discussing whether it was better to spend time with the wife or with a mistress.

Flamel said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid foundation for an enduring relationship.

Casanova said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because of the passion and mystery he found there.

Paracelsus said, "I would like both."

"Both?"

Paracelsus: "Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the lab and get some work done."

Krisztian
12-18-2013, 10:23 PM
Spin-off from: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3812-Manly-P.-Hall


Yes, it seems that married life didn't suit him very well... That's why I'm thankful for people like Rudolf Steiner and Jung; whenever I see an enlightened thinker that had a family I give a little cheer on the inside.

I think that's the measure of a great man, the quality of his intimate relationships. It's a reflection. To paraphrase mythologist Joseph Campbell's 'journey of a hero', to actually bring back the wisdom from the underworld, "special world", from the inner trials and tribulations into the ordinary world, . . . is the full circle, cycle, the real journey of a hero!

Lunsola
01-28-2014, 01:21 PM
Relationship with an alchemist? It depends on the alchemist for me. If anything I would be more interested in an alchemist or anyone more into the occult type things. Simply because we would have more in common and I wouldn't have to struggle trying to explain concepts to them. Plus we could learn from each other, overall it could be great.

Relationships themselves are really tough. Trying to find someone who wants all the things I want and isn't lying to me or themselves about wanting the same things. Of course people change, I guess I would like someone who really knows who they are. I sometimes almost wish I were into casual relations and that's all I cared about in the area of desire. It would make things so much more simple. But unfortunately as much as I want to be it's just not enough for me, I can't help what I really want. I want to share love, not entirely as two humans but as two lights who have found each other who can bond together and stay that way.

Awani
01-29-2014, 01:59 AM
Why would you want to be with someone that is not interested improving the self?

:cool:

Andro
02-07-2014, 06:31 PM
My personal input for this thread is that I actually am in a relationship with an Alchemist.

Considering the alternatives, I don't think I could have had it any other way.

Either that, or non-partnered at all.

However, to each their own.

Dr.Zoidberg
02-07-2014, 07:05 PM
Relationship with an Alchemist...

We have not fraternized with enough alchemists to be able define this stereotype. Is anyone here able or brave enough to do so? Then perhaps we could more specifically answer the question.

Now it is not fair to judge anyone based on a stereotype. People can be grouped and stereotypes do exist, but until you have deeper knowledge of the individual, ignorant assumptions are well, ignorant. We are all variations of the same.

There are open minded Alchemists and stubborn ones, polite ones and rude ones, humble ones and arrogant ones, honest ones and delusional ones, self-improving ones and self-worshiping ones. It all depends on what you traits your prefer and are compatible with you.

We would say that in our personal experience, to journey with one who shares your passion is a wonderful thing. To learn and share as a team is gratifying to us. We also see how it could potentially be a disaster. It comes down to the character of the individuals involved.

Lunsola
02-07-2014, 09:34 PM
Why would you want to be with someone that is not interested improving the self?

:cool:

I'm starting to think this was directed at me. At any rate I didn't intend to say or imply anything like that. It's why I said "not entirely as two humans". Improving the self or one's person is a good thing and considerate of one's partner. After all we are all part animal and have certain desires which revolve around that. But we're also more than animals and some of us feel the need for deeper connection. In a good relationship there should be room for both.

Another way of explaining this would be that I wish for more than romantic love from my partner. I would like to be friends first, then lovers, then family. After all there are many types of love and the more the better.

Awani
02-10-2014, 09:06 PM
Not really, it was directed at the thread as a whole. ;)

:cool:

Kiorionis
03-04-2014, 05:21 AM
I wonder if it has anything to do with girls and women being more influenced by beauty, happiness and joy than men. When the 'black phase' or 'dark night of the soul' is necessary for development, how does joy and happiness respond to that?

I know from experience that women become uncomfortable around men who display any sort of weakness. And a few that even take advantage of it. Not the ideal candidate for reproduction anyways :p