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Ghislain
07-22-2011, 05:27 AM
How does one intuitively know which of two poles is Yin and which is Yang?

For Example there are opposites such as:

Left/Right
Hot/Cold
Light/Dark
Love/Hate
Yes/No

Right/Left
Cold/Hot
Dark/Light
Hate/Love
No/Yes

One can find lists of some of these expressing This is Yin and That is Yang, but what are the rules that make it so?

Does anyone have an answer?

Ghislain

solomon levi
07-22-2011, 08:05 PM
Well, also think male/female, +/-, sun/moon, fire/water.
Yang is male, yin is female. That's the easiest way to conjecture the rest IMO.
Scientifically, we look at electricity (yang) and magnetism (yin).

Intuitively? Not an easy question. Sometimes dreams show us things manifesting as men or women,
if you can realize what the thing is instead of thinking it IS a man or a woman.

Aleilius
07-23-2011, 01:41 AM
I think it's a trick of the mind. How do you interpret something singular with a polar interpretation system (the brain is dual)? The single image always takes on a dual appearance/interpretation after that.

Funny enough, your brain plays another trick: your right is actually your left, and your left is your right. Let's not forget, and mark well this: it's also upside down.

Don't forget what Aiwass communicated to Crowley: "Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold!" Do thou this!

The kingdom is the crown,
look up to look down;
behold the heaven turned round,
kingdom as ground!

Birds slither, and snakes fly.

aase
07-24-2011, 11:58 PM
What Solomon Levi & Aleilius said. And also:

Yang acts; yin responds.
Yang penetrates; yin yields and envelops.
Yang moves and exerts; yin envelops and absorbs.

They both take possession of each other. Ebb and flow, give and take.

In terms of hot/cold: Yang is traditionally associated with heat. Because heat actively changes things through the expenditure of energy.
In terms of left/right - your dominant hand is yang. Which for most people is the right. Lateralists try to force everyone to be right handed. Which makes sense only in cultures where your secondary hand is your toilet paper.

Hate can be yin or yang, depending on the shape your hate takes. Same with love.

Ghislain
07-25-2011, 08:44 AM
Hate can be yin or yang, depending on the shape your hate takes. Same with love.

IMHO this is the material for a whole other thread.


Thread: Love

Ghislain

Frater IA
07-28-2011, 01:30 PM
Ghislain, yin and yang can be seen many ways, the most prevalent being good and evil as well as hot and cold. How does one know what good is? Only those who have witnessed the worst of all evil can even begin to comprehend the greatest of all good, and this is done through comparison. As well, when looking at the symbol of yin and yang, you can see that there is a seed of evil in good and a seed of good in evil. AS WELL, to bring this to an even more philosophical and esoteric lesson, how does one know what hot is? By knowing cold by comparison right? However, cold is an illusion, cold is quite literally the lack of thermal energy or heat. Therefore cold does not exsist. Now if you have heat on one side and lack of heat on the other (energy on one side and none on the other) the energy will follow the path of least resistance in order to balance itself, thus the yin yang becomes mobile. Once it starts spinning you look at the symbol and no longer have black and white, but various shades of grey.

While there are many interpretations of yin yang, and I'm sure you probably weren't asking for them, this has been shown to me through my meditations many times, so I figured I'd share.

Schmuldvich
02-09-2019, 09:27 PM
Well, also think male/female, +/-, sun/moon, fire/water.
Yang is male, yin is female. That's the easiest way to conjecture the rest IMO.
Scientifically, we look at electricity (yang) and magnetism (yin).

Intuitively? Not an easy question. Sometimes dreams show us things manifesting as men or women, if you can realize what the thing is instead of thinking it IS a man or a woman.


I think it's a trick of the mind. How do you interpret something singular with a polar interpretation system (the brain is dual)? The single image always takes on a dual appearance/interpretation after that.

Funny enough, your brain plays another trick: your right is actually your left, and your left is your right. Let's not forget, and mark well this: it's also upside down.

The kingdom is the crown,
look up to look down;
behold the heaven turned round,
kingdom as ground!


What Solomon Levi & Aleilius said. And also:

Yang acts; yin responds.
Yang penetrates; yin yields and envelops.
Yang moves and exerts; yin envelops and absorbs.

They both take possession of each other. Ebb and flow, give and take.

In terms of hot/cold: Yang is traditionally associated with heat. Because heat actively changes things through the expenditure of energy.
In terms of left/right - your dominant hand is yang. Which for most people is the right. Lateralists try to force everyone to be right handed. Which makes sense only in cultures where your secondary hand is your toilet paper.

Hate can be yin or yang, depending on the shape your hate takes. Same with love.


Ghislain, yin and yang can be seen many ways, the most prevalent being good and evil as well as hot and cold.

How does one know what good is? Only those who have witnessed the worst of all evil can even begin to comprehend the greatest of all good, and this is done through comparison.

As well, when looking at the symbol of yin and yang, you can see that there is a seed of evil in good and a seed of good in evil.

AS WELL, to bring this to an even more philosophical and esoteric lesson, how does one know what hot is? By knowing cold by comparison right? However, cold is an illusion, cold is quite literally the lack of thermal energy or heat. Therefore cold does not exsist.

Now if you have heat on one side and lack of heat on the other (energy on one side and none on the other) the energy will follow the path of least resistance in order to balance itself, thus the yin yang becomes mobile. Once it starts spinning you look at the symbol and no longer have black and white, but various shades of grey.

While there are many interpretations of yin yang, and I'm sure you probably weren't asking for them, this has been shown to me through my meditations many times, so I figured I'd share.


"Our Saturn endeavors to devour the white color that appears after blackness, but the same is changed into a stone. For though Saturn devours the stone yet by continual concoction it is cast up again. Our thus dissolved matter is coagulated into the stone of the Wise men, which is dissolved again, and in this manner Saturn always devours a stone instead of Jupiter, which he spews up upon Helicon, until at length it becomes our blessed Stone which is dedicated to Wisdom."

"The Chemist's Key" by Henry Nollius, 1617


"Now let us revolve to the Black matter in its Vessel, (not so much as once opened), but continually closed: Let this Vessel I say, stand continually in the moist fire, till such time as the White Colour appears, like to a white moist Salt.
Phares saith, Seeing the Whiteness appearing above in the Vessel, you may be certain, that in the Whiteness, the Redness lies hid"

"Radix Mundi" by Roger Bacon, 1290


"By its continual circulation, kept up by means of external heat, it drops down continually on the matter - rising as a dew and continually trickling down the sides of the glass; and so continually re-moistening the matter below. By this means a matter that to all appearance is incorruptible is brought into a state of putrefaction- the blackness of death follows- but the dead will revive again uniting all three into a glorified body."

"A Way To Operate The Elixir"


"Virtue must be increased by a wise management of the Matter: you must circulate this Menstruum in the Unctuous humidity in a Vessel of Circulation, by rotation continually."

"Medulla Alchimae" by George Ripley, 1471


"All the strange Parables which the Philosophers have spoken mystically, of a Stone, a Moon, a Furnace, a Vessel, all this is Saturn; for you must not put any strange thing unto it, only what comes from it, therefore there, is none so poor in this world, which cannot operate and promote this work; for Luna may be easily made of Saturn, in a short time, and in a little longer time Sol may be made out of it. And though a man be poor, yet may he very well attain unto it, and may be employed to make the Philosophers Stone.
Wherefore my Child, all is concealed in Saturn, which we have need of, for in it is a perfect Mercury, in it are all the Colours of the world, which may be discovered in it; in it are the true black, white and red Colours, in it is the weight, it is our Lattin."

"A Work Of Saturn" by Isaac Hollandus, 1670


"The colour black was given to Saturn. In spagyric art he is the hieroglyph for lead, in astrology, a maleficent planet; in hermeticism, the black dragon or Philosophers' Lead; in magic, the black Hen, etc. In the Egyptian temples, when a new member was about to undergo the initiatory ordeals, a priest approached him and whispered this mysterious sentence in his ear: 'Remember that Osiris is a black god!' This is the symbolical colour of the shades and the Cimmerian darkness, the colour of Satan, to whom black roses were offered. It is also the colour of primitive Chaos, in which the seeds of all things are confused and mixed. It is the sable of the science of heraldry and the emblem of the element earth, of night and death.
Just as in Genesis day succeeds night, so light succeeds darkness. Its signature is the colour White. The Wise assure us that when their matter has reached this degree, it is freed from all impurity, perfectly cleansed and very exactly purified. It then takes on the appearance of solid granulations or shining corpuscles, reflecting like diamonds and of a dazzling whiteness. White has also been used to denote purity, simplicity and innocence. White is the colour of the Initiates, because the man, who abandons darkness to follow light, passes from the profane state to that of the Initiate, the Pure. He is spiritually renewed."

"The Mystery Of The Cathedrals" by Fulcanelli, 1926
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Some see the microcosm within the flask as composed of two opposites...a yin up top and a yang below. The upper salt can be viewed as being a fixed salt as well because it remains and drives the work until the time of its waning."

https://i.imgur.com/IHWTSYI.png

https://i.imgur.com/RMsaRAb.jpg



See also: "The Great One Gives Birth To The Waters" (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5357-The-Great-One-gives-birth-to-the-Waters)

Also: "Our Circulation" (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5468-Our-Rotations-Circulation)

vigilance
02-11-2019, 03:49 PM
two tears in a bucket.

Some of the responses in this thread have done a pretty good job paraphrasing this:


Dao gives birth to One
One gives birth to Two
Two give birth to Three
Three give birth to ten-thousand things
The ten-thousand things carry yin and embrace yang
They mix these energies to enact harmony
People dislike being poor, abandoned and alone
Yet this is how kings and nobles consider themselves
For by decreasing things we increase them
And by increasing things we decrease them
That which others teach I also teach
One who forces things will not have a proper death
I shall take this as the father of my teaching
-Dao de Jing, Chapter 42


Frater IA brought up the spinning, and several of the excerpts included by Schmuldvich mention "rotation". For me this is immediately bringing to mind the (related) swastika. I had a nice infographic displaying this, but of course I can't find it.. this will have to do:

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_files/image004.gif

'The science of Yantra ('junt-ruh') is the ancient yogic study of symbols and forms and how they affect the mind and the wider environment. That branch of knowledge asserts that the counter-clockwise swastika will lead to permanent victory, while the clockwise-rotating symbol will lead to annihilation. Furthermore, in Yoga, the counter-clockwise swastika is said to 'unwind' the kundalinii - the latent spiritual potentiality. The opposite direction is said to bind it more tightly. I have read that in Hinduism, the counter-clockwise symbol represents 'evolution' of the universe and of mind, and the clockwise symbol represents 'involution', or collapse.'

I've seen this simplified as "good/evil".. or representing Kali and.. Shiva (? i think). I'm really not sure if this is connected to which way the swastika is facing, or which way either version is rotating.

There's echoes of this in the Sefer Yetzira:


'The wheel rotates backwards and forwards. And this is the sign: if for good, above pleasure, and if for evil, below pain.'


A symbol in the West which incorporates a lot of this is the Wheel of Fortune (predates its inclusion in Tarot).. While one side ascends, the other descends. Sometimes further simplified as Scales/balance.

White Belt
08-05-2019, 06:01 PM
"Our Saturn endeavors to devour the white color that appears after blackness, but the same is changed into a stone. For though Saturn devours the stone yet by continual concoction it is cast up again. Our thus dissolved matter is coagulated into the stone of the Wise men, which is dissolved again, and in this manner Saturn always devours a stone instead of Jupiter, which he spews up upon Helicon, until at length it becomes our blessed Stone which is dedicated to Wisdom."

"The Chemist's Key" by Henry Nollius, 1617


"Now let us revolve to the Black matter in its Vessel, (not so much as once opened), but continually closed: Let this Vessel I say, stand continually in the moist fire, till such time as the White Colour appears, like to a white moist Salt.
Phares saith, Seeing the Whiteness appearing above in the Vessel, you may be certain, that in the Whiteness, the Redness lies hid"

"Radix Mundi" by Roger Bacon, 1290


"By its continual circulation, kept up by means of external heat, it drops down continually on the matter - rising as a dew and continually trickling down the sides of the glass; and so continually re-moistening the matter below. By this means a matter that to all appearance is incorruptible is brought into a state of putrefaction- the blackness of death follows- but the dead will revive again uniting all three into a glorified body."

"A Way To Operate The Elixir"


"Virtue must be increased by a wise management of the Matter: you must circulate this Menstruum in the Unctuous humidity in a Vessel of Circulation, by rotation continually."

"Medulla Alchimae" by George Ripley, 1471


"All the strange Parables which the Philosophers have spoken mystically, of a Stone, a Moon, a Furnace, a Vessel, all this is Saturn; for you must not put any strange thing unto it, only what comes from it, therefore there, is none so poor in this world, which cannot operate and promote this work; for Luna may be easily made of Saturn, in a short time, and in a little longer time Sol may be made out of it. And though a man be poor, yet may he very well attain unto it, and may be employed to make the Philosophers Stone.
Wherefore my Child, all is concealed in Saturn, which we have need of, for in it is a perfect Mercury, in it are all the Colours of the world, which may be discovered in it; in it are the true black, white and red Colours, in it is the weight, it is our Lattin."

"A Work Of Saturn" by Isaac Hollandus, 1670


"The colour black was given to Saturn. In spagyric art he is the hieroglyph for lead, in astrology, a maleficent planet; in hermeticism, the black dragon or Philosophers' Lead; in magic, the black Hen, etc. In the Egyptian temples, when a new member was about to undergo the initiatory ordeals, a priest approached him and whispered this mysterious sentence in his ear: 'Remember that Osiris is a black god!' This is the symbolical colour of the shades and the Cimmerian darkness, the colour of Satan, to whom black roses were offered. It is also the colour of primitive Chaos, in which the seeds of all things are confused and mixed. It is the sable of the science of heraldry and the emblem of the element earth, of night and death.
Just as in Genesis day succeeds night, so light succeeds darkness. Its signature is the colour White. The Wise assure us that when their matter has reached this degree, it is freed from all impurity, perfectly cleansed and very exactly purified. It then takes on the appearance of solid granulations or shining corpuscles, reflecting like diamonds and of a dazzling whiteness. White has also been used to denote purity, simplicity and innocence. White is the colour of the Initiates, because the man, who abandons darkness to follow light, passes from the profane state to that of the Initiate, the Pure. He is spiritually renewed."

"The Mystery Of The Cathedrals" by Fulcanelli, 1926
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Some see the microcosm within the flask as composed of two opposites...a yin up top and a yang below. The upper salt can be viewed as being a fixed salt as well because it remains and drives the work until the time of its waning."

https://i.imgur.com/IHWTSYI.png

https://i.imgur.com/RMsaRAb.jpg



See also: "The Great One Gives Birth To The Waters" (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5357-The-Great-One-gives-birth-to-the-Waters)

Also: "Our Circulation" (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5468-Our-Rotations-Circulation)

The axis of the heart's electromagnetic field is tilted at an angle to the body axis, similar to the tilt of the Earth's Magnetic field. In the Tao we believe that the heart tilts 45 degrees towards the North Star, and that the North Star exerts a strong pull on the heart.

http://www.energyenhancement.org/TAOIST-MACROCOSMIC-Orbit.jpg

The Great Union and the Lesser Union

The Union of Kan and Li

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/cosmicfusion-140703122242-phpapp01/95/cosmic-fusion-28-638.jpg?cb=1404390265

The Cantong qi uses several sets of emblems that represent different aspects of the relation of the cosmos to
the Dao: unity, duality, and multiplicity. Two of these
sets are especially important.
The first one is formed by four of the eight trigrams of
the Book of Changes, namely Qian ☰, Kun ☷, Kan ☵,
and Li ☲. Qian and Kun represent the primary modes
taken on by the Dao in its self-manifestation: Qian
stands for its active (Yang, “creative”) aspect, and Kun
stands for its passive (Yin, “receptive”) aspect. The permanent conjunction of Qian and Kun in the precosmic
domain gives birth to the cosmos. In that everlasting instant, the Yang of Qian ☰ moves into Kun ☷, which becomes Kan ☵; in response, the Yin of Kun ☷ moves into
Qian ☰, which becomes Li ☲. Kan and Li therefore replace Qian and Kun in the cosmos, but harbor them as
their own inner essences (their inner lines). Therefore
Yin contains True Yang (the inner line of Kan ☵), and
Yang contains True Yin (the inner line of Li ☲).

While the main images of Qian and Kun are Heaven
and Earth, which never exchange their positions, the main images of Kan and Li are the Moon and the Sun,
which alternate in their growth and decline in the compass of space and the cycles of time. The Cantong qi
states, however, that Qian, Kun, Kan, and Li are all
“within empty Non-Being.” Space and time, therefore,
allow the One Breath (yiqi) of the Dao to operate in the
cosmos.


Qian ☰ the firm and Kun ☷ the yielding join and
embrace one another; Yang endows, Yin receives, the
masculine and the feminine attend one to the other.
Attending, they create and transform, unfolding their
Essence and Breath.
Kan ☵ and Li ☲ are at the fore: their radiance and glow
come down and spread out. Mysterious and obscure,
this can hardly be fathomed and cannot be pictured or
charted. The sages gauged its depth; one with it, they
set forth its foundation.
These four, in indistinction, are right within Empty NonBeing. Sixty hexagrams revolve around them,
outspread like a chariot. Harnessing a dragon and a
mare, the bright noble man holds the reins of time.
In harmony there are following and compliance: the
path is level and begets no evil. Evil ways obstruct and
hamper: they endanger the kingdom.
Cantong qi (Seal of the Unity of the Three)

The
five agents are generated by the division of Unity into
Yin and Yang, and by the further subdivision of Yin and
Yang into four states. In alchemy as a whole, Water
and Fire are the Yin and Yang of the postcelestial state,
and Wood and Metal are the True Yin and True Yang of
the precelestial state. Soil, the fifth agent, has both a
Yang and a Yin aspect. Being at the center of the other
agents, it stands for the source from which they derive;
it partakes of all of them and guarantees the conjunction of the world of multiplicity to the state of Unity.

The Realized Man in the Cantong qi
Innerly nourish yourself, serene and quiescent in Empty
Non-Being. Going back to the fundament conceal your
light, and innerly illuminate your body.
Shut the openings and raise and strengthen the
Numinous Trunk; as the three luminaries sink into the
ground, warmly nourish the Pearl.
* * *
Ears, eyes, and mouth are the three treasures: shut
them, and let nothing pass through. The Realized Man
withdraws in the depths of the abyss; drifting and
roaming, he keeps to the compass.
When the three have been latched, repose your body in
an empty room, and give your will to returning to
Empty Non-Being; without thoughts you attain
constancy.
Going back and forth brings obstruction: if focused,
your Heart will not wander or stray. In sleep, embrace
your Spirit; when awake, watch over existence and
extinction.
Cantong qi (Seal of the Unity of the Three)

Great post - I have much more to add hope you enjoy

Schmuldvich
08-06-2019, 01:28 AM
Excellent insight, White Belt. Thank you for sharing!

White Belt
08-06-2019, 04:51 PM
Excellent insight, White Belt. Thank you for sharing!

No, thank you! It was like you rolled over a stone in my head and all this popped out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6srvauvX1-Y/VMq5o4WgY4I/AAAAAAAAAhw/vvmXgLACQ8Q/s1600/IMG_7570.JPG

The image of the Dragon-Tiger undergoes a thousand
transformations and ten thousand changes, and its
transcendence is divine and unfathomable. This is why
we use them to represent the ingredients, we establish
them as Tripod and Furnace, and we move them with
the Fire regime. By analogy, they are Kan and Li; by
substitution, they are Metal and Fire; by naming, they
are the boy and the girl; by conjoining, they are the
husband and the wife. All these different names
constitute the wondrous function (yong) of the Dragon
and the Tiger. By virtue of their divine animation
(linggan), we call them ingredients; because they bring
things to achievement, we call them Tripod and
Furnace; by virtue of their transformations, we call
them Fire Times; because they cross each other and
join to one another, we call them Kan and Li; because
they are firm and straight, we call them Metal and
Wood; because they ascend and descend, we call
them boy and girl; because they wondrously harmonize
with one another, we call them husband and wife.
Zhonghe ji

Neidan language deserves attention. Many alchemical terms refer not only to the material entities or phenomena that they literally denote,
but also to formless principles.

In these cases, different
entities and phenomena are seen as instances of those principles, and their names are synonymous of and interchangeable with one another.

For example, “True Lead” (zhenqian) literally denotes refined lead, but connotes the principle of True Yang (zhenyang) found within the Yin.
“True Lead” therefore is another name of True Yang within Yin, and in this function it is a synonym of all terms that denote other instances of the
same principle—such as the agent Metal, the trigram Kan ☵,
and the Breath of the kidneys.

One could, therefore, understand True Lead with reference to principles of metaphysics, to cosmological patterns, to Waidan
methods, and to physiological practices; and one could
mention Kan ☵ to mean Metal, or True Lead to mean
the Breath of the kidneys, and so forth. The terms per se are “empty,” but they function as pointers to the principles that they represent.

The Way of the Golden Elixir entirely consists of
models and images (faxiang). It takes Lead and
Mercury as substances, but one must know that the
Essence of Lead and the Marrow of Mercury are
nothing but metaphors. It is based on the terms Li and
Kan, but one must know that the Kan Boy and the Li
Girl are nothing but empty terms. It uses the forms of
the Dragon and the Tiger, but one must also know that
the Dragon-Fire and the Tiger-Water have no form. It
talks about the Yellow Sprout, the White Snow, the
Divine Water, and the Flowery Pond, but these are
things that can neither be seen nor used.
Xiao Tingzhi (mid-13th century

vigilance
08-06-2019, 05:26 PM
The axis of the heart's electromagnetic field is tilted at an angle to the body axis, similar to the tilt of the Earth's Magnetic field. In the Tao we believe that the heart tilts 45 degrees towards the North Star, and that the North Star exerts a strong pull on the heart.

This is related to the axial tilt of the earth (~23.5), its offset from the solar plane. The "celestial sphere" can be defined by the apparent rotation of "The World" around the Pole Star. The tilt of the planet also has a "wobble", which causes the "precession of the equinoxes", and for the axis to point to a different pole star over time.

The "north star" that exerts a pull of the heart is "The Palace of the Heavenly Emperor":


The importance of the star Alpha Draconis to the ancients is evidenced by the many titles bestowed on it, a few of which are here given: "Judge of Heaven," "High Horned One," "Proclaimer of Light," "High One of the Enclosure of Life," "The Favourable Judge," "Life of Heaven," "the Prosperous Judge, " "Crown of Heaven." Seamen regarded it as the Dragon's tail, and Al-Tizini called it "the Male Hyena."----The dragon was the national emblem of China, but, strange to say, the Dragon of the Chinese zodiac was among the stars composing the constellation Libra. According to Edkins, "the Palace of the Heavenly Emperor" is bounded by the oval formed by the fifteen stars in Draco, amongst which is the star "Tai-yi," the ancient Pole Star, twentytwo degrees from the present Pole.


Whether literally or figuratively in different tradtions it can be considered the "monad" from which creation is emanating, or the centrum, "heaven", the "abode of god", etc.

vigilance
08-06-2019, 05:34 PM
The axis of the heart's electromagnetic field is tilted at an angle to the body axis, similar to the tilt of the Earth's Magnetic field. In the Tao we believe that the heart tilts 45 degrees towards the North Star, and that the North Star exerts a strong pull on the heart.

http://www.energyenhancement.org/TAOIST-MACROCOSMIC-Orbit.jpg



Further to that diagram:

"A part of the Shiji by Sima Qian identifies Taiyi with the simple name Di (Deity) and tells:[92]

The Dipper is the Thearch's carriage. It revolves around the central point and majestically regulates the four realms. The distribution of yin and yang, the fixing of the four seasons, the coordination of the five phases, the progression of rotational measurements, and the determining of all celestial markers—all of these are linked to the Dipper. "

White Belt
08-09-2019, 08:14 PM
This is related to the axial tilt of the earth (~23.5), its offset from the solar plane. The "celestial sphere" can be defined by the apparent rotation of "The World" around the Pole Star. The tilt of the planet also has a "wobble", which causes the "precession of the equinoxes", and for the axis to point to a different pole star over time.

The "north star" that exerts a pull of the heart is "The Palace of the Heavenly Emperor":



Whether literally or figuratively in different tradtions it can be considered the "monad" from which creation is emanating, or the centrum, "heaven", the "abode of god", etc.

The Doctrine of the Mean or Zhongyong is both a doctrine of Confucianism and also the title of one of the Four Books of Confucian philosophy. The text is attributed to Zisi or Kong Ji, the only grandson of Confucius. It was published as a chapter in the Classic of Rites.

The phrase "doctrine of the mean" first occurs in Book VI, verse 29 of the Analects of Confucius:

The Master [Confucius] said, The virtue embodied in the doctrine of the Mean is of the highest order. But it has long been rare among people

— Analects, 6:29 (Burton Watson tr.)

The Analects never expands on what this term means, but Zisi's text, The Doctrine of the Mean, explores its meaning in detail, as well as how to apply it to one's life.

While Burton Watson translated Zhōngyōng as Doctrine of the Mean, other English-language translators have rendered it differently. James Legge called it Constant Mean. Pierre Ryckmans (aka Simon Leys) Middle Way, while Arthur Waley chose Middle Use. Ezra Pound's attempts include Unswerving Pivot, and Unwobbling Pivot. Roger T. Ames and David L. Hall titled their 2001 translation Focusing the Familiar.

"Zhong-ni said, 'The superior man embodies the course of the Mean; the mean man acts contrary to the course of the Mean."

This guideline requires self-education, self-questioning and self-discipline during the process of self-cultivation. This principle was demonstrated in the first chapter of Doctrine of the Mean:

"The superior man does not wait till he sees things to be cautious, nor till he hears things to be apprehensive. There is nothing more visible than what is secret, and nothing more manifest than what is minute. Therefore the superior man is watchful over himself, when he is alone."

The guiding principle is that one should never act in excess.

Golden mean (philosophy) a tenet of the philosophy of Aristotle,


Appearing in Greek thought at least as early as the Delphic Maxim nothing to excess and emphasized in later Aristotelian philosophy, the golden mean or golden middle way is the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency.

vigilance
08-17-2019, 11:28 PM
Unswerving Pivot[/B], and Unwobbling Pivot. Roger T. Ames and David L. Hall titled their 2001 translation Focusing the Familiar.


These other translations sound very close to the "Fixed Point" or "Unmoved Mover" of the Universe/Creation

White Belt
08-21-2019, 07:54 PM
These other translations sound very close to the "Fixed Point" or "Unmoved Mover" of the Universe/Creation

"He who understands earth is a wise man, and he who understands heaven is a sage. Knowledge is derived from the straight line shadow, and that is derived from the right angled joint. The combination of the right angle with numbers is what guides and rules the ten thousand things."
Chinese tomb inscription

http://www.venerabilisopus.org/images/textes/FuXi-and-Nuwa-Caduceus-China.png


Geometry and Alchemy and the Androgynous rebis figure.

The Yin-Yang, the Materia Prima and the squaring of the circle.

The compass and the square are the supreme tools of the ancient geometrician. The opposing equals of the compass and the square combined birth geometry and all its sciences. The dragons dual nature, its celestial and terrestrial terrains and the multiple meanings of the snake and dragon not only in Chinese mythology.

The layers of symbolism here is probably most appreciated here on this forum.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/4f/49/1c4f49e13166f6660ad247f1b57715b3.jpg

We are just starting to scratch the surface into what I was hoping some people here would be interested in. If anybody is starting to catch on please put your 2 cents in.

Seraphim
09-05-2019, 07:29 PM
I don't know the meaning but felt it may be relevant?


The Philosophers take for example an Egg, for in this the four elements are joined together. The first or the shell is Earth, and the White is Water, but the skin between the shell and the White is Air, and separates the Earth from the Water; the Yolk is Fire, and it too is enveloped in a subtle skin, representing our subtle air, which is more warm and subtle, as it is nearer to the Fire, and separates the Fire from the Water. In the middle of the Yolk there is the Firm ELEMENT, out of which the young chicken bursts and grows.

Thus we see in an egg all the elements combined with matter to form a source of perfect nature, just so as it is necessary in this noble art.

tAlchemist
09-18-2019, 08:34 PM
How can one find and identify the Yin and Yang in anything? What are the characteristics of these two principals that can be found anywhere else for example, the human body?

White Belt
09-20-2019, 05:23 PM
How can one find and identify the Yin and Yang in anything? What are the characteristics of these two principals that can be found anywhere else for example, the human body?

This is not easy to answer as it involves some deeper understanding of some concepts relating to Chinese cosmology.

Book of Changes (Yijing), "one Yin and one Yang, this is the Dao."

Yin and Yang are ultimately contained within the Dao itself. At the same time, the phrase "one Yin and one Yang, this is the Dao" refers to the continuous alternation of Yin and Yang within the cosmos.

operation is especially visible in the time cycles of the day (alternation of daytime and nighttime) and of the year (alternation of the four seasons).

The origins of these notions are impossible to ascertain. It is generally deemed that the terms yin and yang originally denoted the shaded and sunny sides of a hill, and later began to be used in an abstract sense as cosmological principles.

The earliest known text that contains a list of items arranged according to their Yin and Yang qualities is a manuscript entitled Designations (Cheng, found in Mawangdui), probably dating from the 3rd century BCE.
Examples of Yang and Yin items, respectively, mentioned in this text include: heaven and earth; above and below; day and night; summer and winter; spring and autumn; man and woman; father and child; elder brother and younger brother; ruler and minister; soldiers and laborers; speech and silence; giving and receiving; doing and non-doing.

Yang endows, Yin receives, the masculine and the feminine attend one to the other.

Cantong qi (The Seal of the Unity of the Three)

https://www.goldenelixir.com/pics/dragon_and_tiger_3.jpg

The conjunction of Yin and Yang represented as the conjunction
of the essences of the Dragon (Yang holding True Yin)
and the Tiger (Yin holding True Yang) in the alchemical tripod.
Xingming guizhi (Principles of Balanced Cultivation
of Nature and Existence), 17th century.

Refer to my post on the union of Kan and Li earlier in this thread regarding this image

White Belt
09-20-2019, 05:27 PM
The 5 Agents
https://www.goldenelixir.com/pics/wuxing_1.gif

The Eight Trigrams
https://www.goldenelixir.com/pics/eight_trigrams_1.gif

These are in direct relation to the understanding of the Yin and Yang, this system coordinates several sets of cosmological emblems with one another, including Yin and Yang, the five agents, and the eight trigrams and sixty-four hexagrams of the Book of Changes.

tAlchemist
09-20-2019, 06:02 PM
Thanks for getting back to me, White Belt.

Would you happen to agree with this;

Yang is an active force, like the Sun, however, the Sun still contains Yin (receptive force) in order for this active force (Yang) to be contained.

Or another way to put it would be... Human Body is Yin (receptive force) while spirit is Yang (active force) in order for the individual (Spirit/Yang) to become contained.

The ''Sun'' Body & Human Body is both Yin but the force that drives it is Yang, meaning there is Yin & Yang in both but in proportion.

Does this sound accurate to you?
If it does, then wouldn't this mean the Spirit of every female animal/human would be masculine?

White Belt
09-20-2019, 09:25 PM
Thanks for getting back to me, White Belt.

Would you happen to agree with this;

Yang is an active force, like the Sun, however, the Sun still contains Yin (receptive force) in order for this active force (Yang) to be contained.

Or another way to put it would be... Human Body is Yin (receptive force) while spirit is Yang (active force) in order for the individual (Spirit/Yang) to become contained.

The ''Sun'' Body & Human Body is both Yin but the force that drives it is Yang, meaning there is Yin & Yang in both but in proportion.

Does this sound accurate to you?
If it does, then wouldn't this mean the Spirit of every female animal/human would be masculine?

You are on the right path. I have to use sanskrit to explain as my understanding of this is a mixture from my teacher of taoist and sanskrit terms

Ardhanarishvara means "the Lord Who is half woman."
Ardhanarishvara represents the synthesis of masculine and feminine energies of the universe (Purusha and Prakriti) and illustrates how Shakti, the female principle of God, is inseparable from (or the same as, according to some interpretations) Shiva, the male principle of God. The union of these principles is exalted as the root and womb of all creation.
The masculine active force of the spirit (atman) in male semen requires the receptive material matrix of the feminine womb, the material reality (prakrti).

Purusha is a complex concept it means the cosmic man or Self, Consciousness, and Universal principle. Any Purusha concept refers to abstract essence of the Self, Spirit and the Universal Principle that is eternal, indestructible, without form and is all pervasive.

Rishi Angiras explains that Purusha, the dweller in the body, is three-fold: the Bahyatman (the Outer-Atman) which is born and dies; the Antaratman (the Inner-Atman) which comprehends the whole range of material phenomena, gross and subtle, with which the Jiva concerns himself, and the Paramatman which is all-pervading, unthinkable, indescribable, is without action and has no Samskaras.

I will post more soon!

vigilance
11-07-2019, 04:55 PM
Okay it's always been my intention to reply to this when I had some more contemplative time. Its now become very synchronistic. I'm going to handle the second part first, because that is all I saw the first time around.... I just came across Fuxi and Nuwa on my own yesterday, have come back here to formulate a reply and compare it to the Prima Materia emblem, only to find it's exactly what is here. I'll probably have to split this into two parts.


Geometry and Alchemy and the Androgynous rebis figure.

The Yin-Yang, the Materia Prima and the squaring of the circle.

The compass and the square are the supreme tools of the ancient geometrician. The opposing equals of the compass and the square combined birth geometry and all its sciences. The dragons dual nature, its celestial and terrestrial terrains and the multiple meanings of the snake and dragon not only in Chinese mythology.

The layers of symbolism here is probably most appreciated here on this forum.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/4f/49/1c4f49e13166f6660ad247f1b57715b3.jpg

We are just starting to scratch the surface into what I was hoping some people here would be interested in. If anybody is starting to catch on please put your 2 cents in.

So to me, this is Heaven and Earth, the Above and the Below, with the Dragon as the dividing line between the two. The bottom is a symbol of the duodenary structure of the Zodiac, or the Ecliptic plane. This is the boundary of the "World".. It represents the path the planets follow, including the Sun over the "Solar Year". You could just consider this bottom part an Orphic/Cosmological "egg", but the version of it you use here combines both the above and below in an egg-like structure. I believe this is the Ptolemaic conception.. I have an Islamic source that cites Ibn Arabi as considering it the "atlas sphere".

12 is a highly composite number, with factors of 2, 3, 4, and 6 (If you understand how to draw the triangle, you understand how to draw the hexagon - the equilateral triangle is every second point of the hexagon). In terms of the solar year, the square/cross represents the equinoxes and solstices.. the "four corners of the world" (and roughly delineates the seasons). In astrology, the triangle and square represent triplicties and quadruplicities, and everything associate with those.

https://i.imgur.com/9unDLkc.jpg

To the greeks, the tetrad - 1 to 4 actually represents the entire decad (1-10), as 1+2+3+4 =10. 1-4 are considered the "realest", with the rest derived from those. It could also represent the 4 elements of the "sublunary" sphere. The tetrad, in the form of the Tetraktys, represents many aspects of Greek/hermetic metaphysics:

https://i.imgur.com/PM788WW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/U3evDwi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EkUCP2u.jpg

I think the bottom half should be seen as tilted on the horizontal, and in this way, the "1" in the dragon's belly is actually over the center of the circle. This one is the "Monad", the centrum, from which Creation "Emanates" (actually a series of successive emanations). Which brings me back to the pole star/Axis Mundi. Draco is defined from between 7 and 31 stars depending on the source, but is generally considered to occupy every sign of the Zodiac, wrapped around the pole star. (and in some sources becomes a symbol of the entire zodiac, or ecliptic). It is the last guardian before entering the "realm of heaven".. I assume after an ascent through the planetary spheres..

In the above section, the sun, moon, and other five classical planets are a bit trickier. I'm not sure if they should be taken to represent the actual planets/metals, or the higher "Forms/Ideas" (in a platonic sense) that lower planets/metals are a reflection of. Do the actual planets and planetary spheres belong to "heaven", above the Dragon, or are they part of Creation below? I'm not sure. But I lean towards seeing the "Above" as primordial or before Creation is manifest. In that case, the decad and the (idea of) the four elements are also more rightly contained within "heaven".


The compass and the square are the supreme tools of the ancient geometrician. The opposing equals of the compass and the square combined birth geometry and all its sciences.

Specifically, these are the tools of the Art or Craft of the "Geometry of Straight-Edge and Compass". The square is often referred to as a "ruler", but this is inaccurate, as it is unruled/unmarked. This is slightly different from "ordinary" geometry in that there are no measurements/calculations, only "organic" constructions created with compass and straight edge. When you understand the basic functions of SE&C, like bisecting an angle, it is understood that the square is just a short-cut for the function of drawing a line perpendicular to another. The straight edge and compass also bring us back to the "opposites" from the beginning of this thread, the straight line - male, active, and the circle, feminine and passive (sometimes compared to the womb). (in Kabbalah, the only two motions in the universe are Yasher - upright, straight (line) and Igul - curved, circular.

Most metaphysical systems agree that the first thing that has to be "created", is the "space" for this creation to exist... as "nothing" is not "empty space", but the abscence of even space itself. And this creation of space is an evolution of dimensions, from none, to at least three. The Greeks have it 0 (point), 1 (line) 2 (shape - triangle) and 3 (body/corpus - tetrahedron). I've seen Islamic sources that have it Point-Line-Square-Cube. Traditional Kabbalah in my base, I guess.. It talks about the contraction to a point, and the "ray of light" that shines out (line) in "every direction", tracing out the 360 degrees of the circle (and every point in between), and the 360x360 degrees of the sphere.

All the geometry signified on the lower half is acheived with straight edge and compass - splitting a circle into two, then four.. 8, 16, etc.. And 6/12/24 etc. So you have the planets travelling along the 12 signs of the ecliptic plane, which is just a band of the ecliptic sphere, and the 24 hour rotation of the "celestial sphere" based on the rotation of the earth/axis mundi.

Six and twelve (sorry these are crappy I just quickly resized what I had already created)

https://i.imgur.com/R5phB3J.jpg

and bisecting the 12 angles for 24:

https://i.imgur.com/pn2bo3J.jpg

the rotation of the earth/celestial sphere divided into 24 parts.. 12 hours day, 12 hours night:

https://i.imgur.com/mzfsZPL.jpg

Here's a favorite image of mine, derived I'm sure from the Prima Materia diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/iw5s6j9.jpg

It had a caption beside it, which badly translated comes out to something like:

"This is to observe that everything that Master/Magician [Artifex] learns or wants to start in this high art. Let the Balance, the right-hand line [The square in his left hand], and the circle [the compass in his right hand] be well observed; so there is nothing unequal, nothing crooked, nothing out of the circle. That means that everything out of one thing should be put into one thing, like it is sufficiently shown in this cabalistic figure. And that the highest must simply be put into the meanest and the meanest put into the lowest and therefore linked and connected to each other & e contrà."

Here's another image (from 1510) that illustrates a lot of what I mentioned.. The decad, the square, the compass, the balance.. the sun and moon. 12 hours day, 12 hours of night, and the 4 elements:

https://i.imgur.com/vhWr9Fw.jpg

vigilance
11-07-2019, 05:05 PM
As I said, I totally missed/skipped this part about Fuxi and Nuwa the first times reading this.. I had only concerned myself with the Prima Materia part and planned to reply sometime in the future..

The inscription you quote below mentions the "ten thousand things" again.. I assume this means "multiplicity" or "differentiation"? I recognized it from something I included in my first reply in this thread, and links back to the Greek tetrad, 1-4 being responsible for all that come after:

Dao gives birth to One
One gives birth to Two
Two give birth to Three
Three give birth to ten-thousand things


"He who understands earth is a wise man, and he who understands heaven is a sage. Knowledge is derived from the straight line shadow, and that is derived from the right angled joint. The combination of the right angle with numbers is what guides and rules the ten thousand things."
Chinese tomb inscription.

http://www.venerabilisopus.org/images/textes/FuXi-and-Nuwa-Caduceus-China.png


So here's the synchronicity.. I had a bit of time to kill, so on Amazon Prime Video I decided to watch an episode of this show called "Numbers" (Five numbers that changed the world). The first episode was about Pi. Except the first part wasn't really about Pi at all.. It started with that painting of Fuxi and Nuwa. Actually, a slightly different version of the painting..

https://i.imgur.com/fmVATm3.jpg

The program states that the Astana cemetary was at the "westernmost frontier" of China (at the time), and the edge of an arid desert (part of the Silk Road), and that Astana means "The place of rest" in the Uyghur language... where the long journey of life ends. In makes sense.. its where the sun sets, and (vegetative) life ends at the desert. This land was used by the aristocrats of early Tang and Kaochang to bury their dead for 500 years - from approx. 400-800a.d. The painting itself is estimated to date from between 300-500a.d.

The program goes on to say that Fuxi and Nuwa are the male and female creator-gods, said to have created the world, and also the sun, moon and stars.

https://i.imgur.com/iJ6PSLD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/f0ptGZ5.jpg

Then it goes off on a tangent.. to 2000 years ago, and a "very important day for the Emperor". The feudal lords have gathered at the final month of the year, to receive from the Emperor, the "Sun of Heaven", the new calendar.. in other words, he bestows "Time" upon them. And how the rules that govern civilization all start with "Time". Then it brings up "the oldest book of astronomy" in the world, specifically two images of circle and square. This circle and square are reminiscent ofthe ruler and compass held by Fuxi and Nuwa.

https://i.imgur.com/6gbTmDx.jpg


"what are the rules? Without these rules we cannot create circles or rectangles (square)". The circle and rectangle (square) symbolize the Heavens and Earth. The Heavens are a circle, and the Earth is a rectangle (square). To paraphrase the program: "Before clocks, the only way to keep track of time is through the heavens. Only the Emperor was allowed to observe the Heavens. And so watching the sun, moon and stars, the Emperor wondered how he could measure those circles".

You mentioned squaring the circle.. which would be somewhere inbetween those two images from the book (square on inside and square on outside of the circle), and sure enough, the program then gets into that, then calculating the area of circles and circumferences and the search for Pi.

The following is cribbed together from some quick wikipedia research:


"Pangu was said to be the creation god in Chinese mythology. He was a giant sleeping within an egg of chaos. As he awoke, he stood up and divided the sky and the earth. Pangu then died after standing up, and his body turned into rivers, mountains, plants, animals, and everything else in the world, among which is a powerful being known as Hua Hsu.[clarification needed] Hua Hsu gave birth to a twin brother and sister, Fuxi and Nüwa. Fuxi and Nüwa are said to be creatures that have faces of human and bodies of snakes."

---


"Nüwa, also read Nügua, is the mother goddess of Chinese mythology, the sister and wife of Fuxi, the emperor-god. She is credited with creating mankind and repairing the Pillar of Heaven.[1]"

..bringing us back to the Axis Mundi. "Nuwa Mends the Heavens" is a well known theme in Chinese culture:


"The Huainanzi tells an ancient story about how the four pillars that support the sky crumbled inexplicably. Other sources have tried to explain the cause, i.e. the battle between Gong Gong and Zhuanxu or Zhu Rong. Unable to accept his defeat, Gong Gong deliberately banged his head onto Mount Buzhou (不周山) which was one of the four pillars. Half of the sky fell which created a gaping hole and the earth itself was cracked; the earth's axis mundi was tilted into the southeast while the sky rose into the northwest. This is said to be the reason why the western region of China is higher than the eastern and that most of its rivers flow towards the southeast. This same explanation is applied to the sun, moon, and stars which moved into the northwest. A wildfire burnt the forests and led the wild animals to run amok and attack the innocent peoples, while the water which was coming out from the earth's crack didn't seem to be slowing down.[4]

Nüwa pitied the humans she had made and attempted to repair the sky. She gathered five colored-stones (red, yellow, blue, black, and white) from the riverbed, melted them and used them to patch up the sky: since then the sky (clouds) have been colorful. She then killed a giant turtle (or tortoise), some version named the tortoise as Ao, cut off the four legs of the creature to use as new pillars to support the sky. But Nüwa didn't do it perfectly because the unequal length of the legs made the sky tilt. After the job was done,drove away the wild animals, extinguished the fire, and controlled the flood with a huge amount of ashes from the burning reeds. The world became as peaceful as it was before."



"Before the two of them got married, they lived on mount K'un-lun. A prayer was made after the two became guilty of falling for each other. The prayer is as follows,

"Oh Heaven, if Thou wouldst send us forth as man and wife, then make all the misty vapor gather. If not, then make all the misty vapor disperse."[11]

Misty vapor then gathered after the prayer signifying the two could marry. When intimate, the two made a fan out of grass to screen their faces which is why during modern day marriages, the couple hold a fan together. By connecting, the two were representative of Yin and Yang; Fuxi being connected to Yang and masculinity along Nüwa being connected to Yin and femininity. This is further defined with Fuxi receiving a carpenter's square which symbolizes his identification with the physical world because a carpenter's square is associated with straight lines and squares leading to a more straightforward mindset. Meanwhile, Nüwa was given a compass to symbolize her identification with the heavens because a compass is associated with curves and circles leading to a more abstract mindset. With the two being married, it symbolized the union between heaven and Earth.[11] Other versions have Nüwa invent the compass rather than receive it as a gift.[13]"

I assume this marriage happens before they "create".

Comparing with the first half, the geometry is still important in the Chinese system even though there are significant differences. The basic system has 12 signs as well... Although its not based on the Solar Year, but on the orbital period of Jupiter (~12 years). That's Jupiter's "solar year", or orbit around the ecliptic plane. Like the Western Zodiac, these signs are grouped into triplicities (trines, which I haven't researched enough to understand) and also by the 5 elements.

https://i.imgur.com/XRvjkOz.jpg

The significance of Jupiter is not hard for me to reconcile, since for a long time, Jupiter (Zeus-pater) had perhaps the most prominent role in Western Astrology. "Ruler of Heaven".. "Father of the Gods", "King", etc. (the 36 decans were also formerly far more important than they are today).


"The Ruler of Heaven is Jupiter; and through the intermediary of heaven he dispenses life to all beings. (Possibly an earlier statement that it is breath or spiritus which keeps life in all the beings of the world relates to this supremacy of Jupiter, the god of Air.)

Jupiter occupies a place intermediary between heaven and earth. The Sun, or Light, for it is through the intermediary of the solar circle that light is spread to all. The Sun illuminates the other stars not so much by the power of his light as by his divinity and sanctity. He must be held as the second god. The world is living and all things in it are alive and it is the sun which governs all living things."

The Chinese yearly calendar is divided into 24 "solar terms":

https://i.imgur.com/jk4EJzs.png


"The points are spaced 15° apart along the ecliptic[2] and are used by lunisolar calendars to stay synchronized with the seasons, which is crucial for agrarian societies. The solar terms are also used to calculate intercalary months in East Asian calendars;[3] which month is repeated depends on the position of the sun at the time. According to the Book of Documents, the first determined term was the Winter Solstice, also named Dongzhi by Zhou Gong, while he was trying to locate the geological center of his kingdom, by measuring the length of the sun's shadow on an ancient timekeeper instrument named Tu Gui (土圭).[4] Then four terms of seasons were set, which were soon evolved as eight terms; until 104 B. C. in the book Taichu Calendar, the entire 24 solar terms were officially included in Chinese calendar.[5]

Because the Sun's speed along the ecliptic varies depending on the Earth-Sun distance, the number of days that it takes the Sun to travel between each pair of solar terms varies slightly throughout the year. Each solar term is divided into three pentads [ja] (候 hòu) (ja), so there are 72 pentads in a year. Each pentad consists of five, rarely six, days, and are mostly named after phenological (biological or botanical) phenomena corresponding to the pentad."

And although it starts out with a 12 year cycle, the year is still broken down into months, weeks, days, hours like in Western Astrology:

"
In Chinese astrology the animal signs assigned by year represent how others perceive you or how you present yourself. It is a common misconception that the animals assigned by year are the only signs, and many Western descriptions of Chinese astrology draw solely on this system. In fact, there are also animal signs assigned by month (called "inner animals"), by day (called "true animals") and hours (called "secret animals"). The Earth is all 12 signs, 5 seasons."

-------------

This is just a bit of "speculation" on the Fuxi/Nuwa tangent... The bits about the Emperor being the only one allowed to observe the heavens and bestow time/the calendar to his subjects is pretty much standard in these societies where the knowledge is kept by a special group of high priests and suppressed among the common people. It especially reminds me of Egypt. Add to that the multiple roles of Nuwa (wife, sister) also sounds very egyptian with their Husband/Father/Son and Wife/Mother/Daughter multiple (often confusing) roles. This is echoed, I believe, in some of the Kabbalistic symbolism of Keter/Tiferet and Binah/Shekhinah(Malkut).

The "misty vapor" sounds like a combination of two Egyptian dieties: Shu (Egyptian for "emptiness" and "he who rises up"). Shu is Air: Fog and clouds were also Shu's elements and they were often called his bones. Because of his position between the sky and earth, he was also known as the wind; and his sister, Tefnut" Literally translating as "That Water",[2] the name Tefnut has been linked to the verb 'tfn' meaning 'to spit'[3] and versions of the creation myth say that Ra (or Atum) spat her out and her name was written as a mouth spitting in late texts.

These were the first dieties, the children of Iusaaset, "the great one who comes forth", described as the grandmother of all deities". She was associated with the acacia tree, considered the "Tree of Life" to the egyptians. And Atum:


Atum's name is thought to be derived from the verb tm which means 'to complete' or 'to finish'. Thus he has been interpreted as being the "complete one" and also the finisher of the world, which he returns to watery chaos at the end of the creative cycle. As creator he was seen as the underlying substance of the world, the deities and all things being made of his flesh or alternatively being his ka.[5]
-

In the Heliopolitan creation myth, Atum was considered to be the first god, having created himself, sitting on a mound (benben) (or identified with the mound itself), from the primordial waters (Nu).[6] Early myths state that Atum created the god Shu and goddess Tefnut by spitting them out of his mouth.[7] Atum did so through masturbation, with the hand he used in this act representing the female principle inherent within him.[8] Other interpretations state that he has made union with his shadow.[9]

Florius Frammel
11-07-2019, 05:13 PM
Awesome, Greg.
Keep on the good and interesting work!

Andro
11-07-2019, 06:27 PM
You mentioned squaring the circle... which would be somewhere in-between those two images from the book (square on inside and square on outside of the circle)
Never gave this too much thought, but now that you mention it, "squaring" (earth) the circle (heaven) can also have a very direct Alchemical interpretation, i.e. converting the heaven (Spirit?) into Earth (matter), as the Emerald Tablet suggests. In other words, "Squaring the Circle" = "Making the Spirit flesh".

White Belt
11-09-2019, 05:21 PM
Never gave this too much thought, but now that you mention it, "squaring" (earth) the circle (heaven) can also have a very direct Alchemical interpretation, i.e. converting the heaven (Spirit?) into Earth (matter), as the Emerald Tablet suggests. In other words, "Squaring the Circle" = "Making the Spirit flesh".

I wrote a huge post that got deleted because I'm using a tablet so I'll come back to write a more detailed post later.

Thank you Greg, this was exactly what I was hoping for, now I hope with this amazing puzzling of the secrets many on this forum will understand Taoist and Qi Gongs connection with Alchemy and as I will hope to add later a strong similarity (if not direct relationship) in Taoist Magical practices with Goetic, Solomonic and Ceremonial Magic. But that is another topic.

Indeed, the Xian or immortal is the master of breathing arts who has married heaven and earth. The person who has transformed the leaden earthly body into the heavenly recepticle.

"He who understands earth is a wise man, and he who understands heaven is a sage."

Andro basically laid it out the Chinese connection lol

There is a thread here in Mithraism and Indo-Iranian or Persian myth, as well so I am glad you brought up the Islamic Ibn Arabi source.

The squared circle is connected to more, and I hope this catches some people's attention because I would hate to spoil the exciting experience of opening those new doors of knowledge.

Florius Frammel
11-10-2019, 07:57 AM
Never gave this too much thought, but now that you mention it, "squaring" (earth) the circle (heaven) can also have a very direct Alchemical interpretation, i.e. converting the heaven (Spirit?) into Earth (matter), as the Emerald Tablet suggests. In other words, "Squaring the Circle" = "Making the Spirit flesh".

Very nice!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41E0KaXqKnL._AC_SY400_.jpg

It's also the symbol for Noah's ark. And when you add the missing lines at the gap, you'll see what kind of container and substance that is to achieve that goal.

vigilance
11-10-2019, 11:28 PM
I wrote a huge post that got deleted because I'm using a tablet so I'll come back to write a more detailed post later.

I really only get into involved replies from my desktop.. and even then I type into notepad and copy/paste when I'm done. I've been burnt by online editors too often.


Indeed, the Xian or immortal is the master of breathing arts who has married heaven and earth. The person who has transformed the leaden earthly body into the heavenly recepticle.

"He who understands earth is a wise man, and he who understands heaven is a sage."

All the Chinese material is new to me, but I am aware of these ideas from different schools. Kabbalah, Hermeticism, Gnostic, Sufi, etc. I could go on about Tiferet in the tree of life, half-way between Malkut (Earth) and Keter (Heaven), the star of david with its interlocked upward and down facing triangles... The male/female "aspects of god".. all that good stuff. But I'm weak on the Chinese and Indian (Brahamism/Hinduism/Jainism). And not that I dismissed them, but because you can spend a life time studying either one.

But here's a couple of versions of Heaven/Earth man, as I know him:

https://i.imgur.com/5XG38LT.jpg

I talked to a guy on facebook awhile ago.. Paul Martyn-Smith. He's done on a lot of work on the math/number theory of the I Ching (Ho Tu, Lo Shu? I dunno).. I know he has a paper up on Scribd "The Judgement's and Law's of the Sacred Mountain". Discussing these things with him, he said:


"The Sacred Mountain is described as a diamond - half above the field (or waters) and half below. It arose up out of the water, and on top a tree grew, and then garden on its sides. From a Tibetan narrative."

I haven't been able to a source (for example, the tibetan narrative) that supports this claim, but it was pretty interesting to me.

Since posting my replies, I came across this.. From Christian de Medices' "Consurus Philosophorum":

https://i.imgur.com/mzeoYFg.jpg

It's interesting because it has the 1 and the 3 in the caption again:

Superiora si unum et tria egerint in unum et tria inferiora res unum et tria inferiora egerint in unum et tria superiora. Tunc beneficio Azoth.

Uni, et Trini Superioris et inferioris habetis unum et trinum superioris et inferioris perfectum

I've broken this down into different fragments in a variety of ways, feeding into machine translator, and am not really happy with any of the results although I believe I understand the gist of it. Maybe Zoas will see this and offer a translation. It's not unrelated to the discussion here: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?6047-A-puzzle-in-Aureum-Seculum-Seculum-Redivivum-(Madathanus)


There is a thread here in Mithraism and Indo-Iranian or Persian myth, as well so I am glad you brought up the Islamic Ibn Arabi source.

Well I've been getting my Ibn Arabi sources in order, and decided to check my usual places for other books, and did a bunch of downloading. I have renamed them, checked to make sure they were OCR'd (in other words, I haven't read them or even browsed them yet), and here's something I've already seen in "Ibn Arabi - Time and Cosmology" by Mohamed Haj Yousef:

https://i.imgur.com/5iQjdk2.jpg

And it's list of diagrams:

https://i.imgur.com/bNAVLDE.jpg

..it would seem I know what I'm talking about sometimes.

Of course, Islam inherited from the Egyptians, Greeks, Jews, Indians, Chinese, and Persians.




Very nice!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41E0KaXqKnL._AC_SY400_.jpg

It's also the symbol for Noah's ark. And when you add the missing lines at the gap, you'll see what kind of container and substance that is to achieve that goal.

https://i.imgur.com/qEVGlIh.jpg

All of the greek number theory and geometry mentioned is pretty significant to the Masons.

The triangle to square breaks down as:
4:3 in the number of sides, perfect 4th
90:60 in the angles, reducing to 3:2, the perfect 5th.