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Awani
08-25-2011, 09:39 PM
With confidence, respect and passion for life any Daddy-government becomes superfluous. The patriarchal culture we live in can only truly come to an end if each and every soul take responsibility for their own lives, and for the lives they come in contact with; be it human, animal or plant.

:cool:

Andro
08-25-2011, 10:19 PM
The patriarchal culture we live in can only truly come to an end if each and every soul take responsibility for their own lives...

I'm not sure our current culture is as 'patriarchal' as it may appear...

The gender 'game' is a bit more subtle than this IMO.

Quoth 'Enigma of the Sages':


whatsoever is conceived of two bodies is subject to the law of death

Awani
08-25-2011, 10:29 PM
I don't mean it in a gender way... more in a Daddy way... dominator culture... etc...

The State is the Daddy!

And I think you agree that the State is certainly not a Mother.

:cool:

Andro
08-25-2011, 10:40 PM
I don't mean it in a gender way... more in a Daddy way... dominator culture... etc...

The State is the Daddy!

And I think you agree that the State is certainly not a Mother.

Hmmm :)

My Mommy is a dominant control freak. Tried to force me/coerce me/trick me into her ways of seing and doing things since I can remember.

My Daddy, on the other hand, was in total allowance - yet caring and compassionate at the same time. Advising, but never forcing or controlling like Mommy used to...

The dominator culture sucks, yes. But Daddy does not necessarily equal Dominator.

It's funny that in some socialist/communist countries I know, the State was always referred to as 'Mother'.

In western/fascist systems it's more 'Vaterland' :)

Quoth "Pink Floyd - The Wall":


Mother's gonna make all your nightmares come true.
Mother's gonna put all her fears into you.
Mother's gonna keep you right here under her wing.
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing.
----------------------------------------------
Of course mama'll help to build the wall.
----------------------------------------------
Mama's gonna check out all your girlfriends for you.
Mama wont let anyone dirty get through.
Mama's gonna wait up until you get in.
Mama will always find out where you've been.
Mama's gonna keep baby healthy and clean.
Ooooh baby oooh baby oooh baby,
You'll always be baby to me.

Then again - both Roger Waters and myself may have Mommy issues.
Roger lost his Daddy shortly after he was born, and I lost mine at 18.

So... we all come from wherever we come from :)

Awani
08-25-2011, 10:50 PM
I understand you, but... I am not talking about 2011... the world from 5000 BC --> 2011 is a patriarchy/dominator culture far removed from the motherly care of our soul. Something we lost when we stuck those seeds into the soil and began building fences. From this viewpoint I think you see my point.

In regards to your mother it sounds like she adopted the "daddy/dominator" agenda, again it is not a gender thing. More archetypal!

It doesn't matter what you call it in the end... you know what I mean...


With confidence, respect and passion for life any Parental-government becomes superfluous. The parental culture we live in can only truly come to an end if each and every soul take responsibility for their own lives, and for the lives they come in contact with; be it human, animal or plant.

:cool:

Andro
08-25-2011, 10:54 PM
It is not a gender thing. More archetypal!

See how few exchanges it took for us to come into full agreement?

I wish all 'debates' were like this...

:)

Awani
08-25-2011, 10:56 PM
Actually see my edited post above... parental is even better!

Sums up the issue I have with being treated as a fucking child by the States of the world:)

All things can be improved!

:cool:

Frater IA
08-26-2011, 05:18 AM
Good insight, I too tire of these patriarchal games of lusting for power at the expense of everyone else. A golden age CANNOT occur until it is destroyed and it can only be destroyed when everyone allows it.

Andro
08-26-2011, 10:26 AM
Good insight, I too tire of these patriarchal games of lusting for power at the expense of everyone else.

It's parental/domineering, NOT 'patriarchal' ! ! !

Many men would be 'happy' to live in a matriarchal dominator society. Return of 'goddess' worshiping, etc...

That doesn't change anything. Patriarchal/Matriarchal... Same crap...


A golden age CANNOT occur until it is destroyed and it can only be destroyed when everyone allows it.

Something MUST be destroyed, for sure... either the 'parental dominators' OR those who can't take a step without being told what to do.

Both types are equally appalling, but one can't do without the other...

Awani
08-26-2011, 10:30 AM
Ironically a move away from a parental culture requires better parenting.

:cool:

Andro
08-26-2011, 11:34 AM
Quoth Milan Kundera -'Life is Elsewhere (http://www.jiajiaoma.cn/ebooks/jjm_ebooks_090421bp.pdf)':


This is something that could never have happened to Xavier, because Xavier has no mother, and no father either, and not having parents is the first precondition of freedom.

But please understand, it's not a matter of losing one's parents.

Gerard de Nerval's mother died when he was a newborn, and yet he lived his whole life under the hypnotic gaze of her wonderful eyes.

Freedom does nor begin where parents are rejected or buried, but where they do not exist.

Where man is brought into the world without knowing by whom.

Where man is brought into the world by an egg thrown into a forest.

Where man is spat out on the ground by the sky and puts his feet on the world without feeling gratitude.

Other cool quotes from Milan Kundera HERE (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/milan_kundera.html).

Such as:


All great novels, all true novels, are bisexual.

Andro
08-26-2011, 12:15 PM
Here's a short video, highly relevant to this topic IMO:

(even contains some imagery from Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' movie, from which I have quoted earlier)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=share

Also, like I have always been saying, physical survival should never be the main goal.

New Hampshire State Motto: 'Live Free Or Die'.

(Not sure how it applies to an US state today, though...)

And here's another - somehow complementary - video (turn up the volume on your speakers :)):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwVUawJDNTk

And to conclude, a word from Bulwer Lytton:


The prudent person may direct a state, but it is the enthusiast who regenerates or ruins it.

Ghislain
08-26-2011, 05:12 PM
What is the alternative while in this 'Space Time Illusion'? (borrowed from Monroe, but I like it :))

Could it be Spontaneity?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJbZllETz8&feature=related

Would this work or degrade into a planned system?

One can see the importence of an uncensored internet here. Viva Anonymous!

However, it would appear the questions outway the answers!

Ghislain

Edit: is this network or planned order?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Tree_of_life_kircher_plain.png/386px-Tree_of_life_kircher_plain.png

Andro
08-26-2011, 05:24 PM
Spontaneity is IMO a great way to live through UN-recorded times and UN-charted TSI territory (such as we are entering now).

And if/when it degrades - we already know the drill...

I am personally very much in favor of networking, but that doesn't mean I'm against many non-centralized enlightened leaderships ("when Philosophers are kings" :)).

My approach is to defer to someone who is more advanced than me in certain areas, and on the other hand express and exercise leadership in the areas I am best at (in community/network situations).

Donna Matrix
08-26-2011, 05:51 PM
Being a woman, I can't say we are superior of our gender consciousness is any better. My mother was a contracted neurotic fear monger. I am very opposite. But I do know that if women were allowed to be priests in the Catholic church, alot less children would be hurt by pedophiles, cuz they would have their dicks cut off. Sorry guys.

Andro
10-05-2011, 01:56 PM
Introducing new term:

Nanny Government :)

Here is a quote that was forwarded to me via email (from a newsletter):


Freedom's just another word for nothing left to eat

One of the last freedoms you have left is the freedom to choose what's on your dinner plate tonight -- but get ready to stick a fork in that one.

The Food Police have taken over in Denmark -- and we could be next.

This week, Denmark is taking the Nanny State to the next level with an onerous new tax on the fresh and natural foods your body needs. Under this so-called "fat tax," anyone who wants foods with saturated fats will have to pay through the teeth for the privilege.

Farm-fresh butter? TAXED!

Cheese? TAXED!

Meat? TAXED!

Pretty soon, shoppers will be forced to load up on lower-priced substitutes made of factory-processed soy byproducts and a lab full of dangerous chemicals--all in the name of good health, of course.

This sin tax is meant to help slash the risk of an early death. Puh-lease. Studies have shown time and again that people who eat healthful natural animal fats and skip the sugars and other refined carbohydrates have a much LOWER risk of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and even early death.

If that's what passes for sin, then being bad never felt so good.

Denmark isn't the only one leveling the sin tax. Hungary has imposed a tax on foods with high levels of sugar, salt, carbs, and caffeine. Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria have banned trans fats. And Finland, Romania, and Britain are all considering fat taxes as well.

But I think everyone is missing the point here. Forget for a minute that the government has picked the wrong bad guy (sugar and carbs would have been a much more appropriate target), the bottom line is that no government has any right to legislate your food choices. Period.

Hold on to your rights, America, or you'll be next. If Uncle Sam is going to be footing the bill for your healthcare, He certainly thinks he has the right to determine how you eat (and sleep and drink and exercise and you-name-it).

Consider this your wake-up call. And go eat some butter--before it's too late.

solomon levi
01-15-2012, 09:43 PM
Can we also agree that whatever parental aspect, another common denominator
is looking outside of oneself. That is what government is - some body is created
to govern another body. In the same way, children look to their parents.
As long as we look outside and fragment things, there will be no true change.
Mom vs. dad, democrat vs republican, etc - how about neither!
Of course this cannot become a ruling system for mankind. It must be
evolved into - seen from within, not imposed from without.
So how will people see it? I guess the best we can do is teach by example.

Andro
01-15-2012, 09:50 PM
I guess the best we can do is teach by example.

Not the best.

The ONLY.

IMO.

:cool:.

solomon levi
01-15-2012, 10:17 PM
Agreed! :)

We must also consider that this planet is not meant to be a Utopia.
Gurdjieff saw that only so many people can be awakened at a time -
sleeping mankind serves a purpose. We can disagree, but look at the
evidence. Anyone that has ever woke up has left. Supposedly entire
civilizations have awakened before, but they left! Individuals have
awakened and left/"ascended". So that may likely continue to be the
way things are - individual awakenings that ascend to some other place
or frequency. This earth may very well be a "school" that has to remain
at that level to teach that lesson. If not here, it will be somewhere else
as long as soul hold that vibration.
On the other hand, maybe things are changing (2012). Maybe there
will be a mass ascension for the planet. Even planets evolve.
But my point is, there will not be a "good" government. Or maybe
there will. I wouldn't want to be a part of it anymore than this bad government.
Even Plato's system has a few ruling the many. Even if those few are wise,
the whole hierarchy thing will be a problem. We appear to be higher than
the dogs we domesticate, but we still get bit sometimes.

Andro
01-15-2012, 10:22 PM
Agreed! :)

Agreed to agreed! :cool:

I don't remember from which movie the following quote is taken:


The only way to 'win' is to stop playing.

Once you SEE The Game for what it is, you no longer need to play it, nor can you, even if you 'wanted' to... So - you simply move on...

Albion
01-15-2012, 11:09 PM
WarGames: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeOHEU7Ykyg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CJiMltRI5UQ/TUWv0Hz_T4I/AAAAAAAAWcY/HiILgHu7a9Y/s1600/wargames-quote-not-to-play.jpg

[Not my personal philosophy, just a possible source for your quote]

Ghislain
01-16-2012, 12:42 AM
There are religious groups which forbid members to play chess. They reason that chess
promotes violence since its objective is to kill the opponent king and as many opponents as
necessary even at the expense of the lives of many friendly soldiers. What do you think?

Source: (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=chess%20violence&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chess.com%2Fforum%2Fview%2Fsc holastic-chess%2Fviolence-in-chess&ei=qHATT6qwHtTV8QP8mrTrAw&usg=AFQjCNHt4mOwadkCwsaf7h-c9PDp-u1h4w)

An extremely violent game IMO ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhTYJGjc2g

Ghislain

Seth-Ra
01-16-2012, 01:56 AM
There are religious groups which forbid members to play chess. They reason that chess
promotes violence since its objective is to kill the opponent king and as many opponents as
necessary even at the expense of the lives of many friendly soldiers. What do you think?

I think thats just silly. Chess isnt a fight to the death, its a fight to the surrender - as the kings never die (unless they fall on their own sword, technically all people reserve the right of suicide lol), the kings are only forced to surrender - "check mate" means "i have you - no matter what you do, i win."
As for the deaths and sacrifices to get to that point, meh - thats life. lol Ever seen a raid? Both sides suffer casualties as they do what they can, until one of the leaders is captured - either to be tried in a court, or to be used as leverage against the other guys' side. Sacrifices are always made, from eating, to breathing, it takes life to make and sustain life, regardless of side. Thats not violent, its just fact. lol

Ghislain - funny video XD will have to show that one to my brother. (he and I both play chess, I would say my dad does also, but, well... i always win, so no. lol he tries though. ;) lol )



~Seth-Ra

Nibiru
01-16-2012, 04:39 AM
I guess the best we can do is teach by example.

Not the best.

The ONLY.

IMO.

:cool:.

Agreed! :)

Agreed to agreed! :cool:


I don't remember from which movie the following quote is taken:

The only way to 'win' is to stop playing.



Once you SEE The Game for what it is, you no longer need to play it, nor can you, even if you 'wanted' to... So - you simply move on..Agreed!

This reminds me of the response I had written a while back to a friend who has been insisting that I vote for Ron Paul if I want "change":


I've never voted, and doubt I ever will. This is just my take on government, that it should not exist in an ideal world or utopian society. I choose to feed its existence with as little of my time, attention, or resources as possible. It's like I can go to see a game and have the option of rooting for either team, but by attending the game I am still supporting the said sport and its owners. To me this isn't logical when I don't even like sports, so I just choose not to follow them at all. It's almost like they don't even exist in my reality. Which is similar in nature to ignoring a bully and refusing to feed him your attention, so that the bully becomes so starved of what it craves the most and thus becomes forced to feed off of its self. You must first recognize that the bully exists before you're able devise the optimum method for ignoring/defeating it, or at least find a personal justification for the intentional neglect. This is why I try to awaken others to causes that I may or may not have any physical involvement in. I'm working on being in this world, but not of it. My path may not be the path for all, we all have our own roads to travel...
Agreed :)

Nibiru
01-20-2012, 08:36 PM
On the other hand, maybe things are changing (2012). Maybe there
will be a mass ascension for the planet. Even planets evolve.

Yes!! At least this would be one of the better possibilities, IMO..

Maybe we're on the verge of a planetary transmutation. Wouldn't it be nice if the rock on which we reside could be instantly transmuted, without violence, into a perfect 'Stone'?? After all, alchemy works on both the micro and the macro level. It's said that we are but smaller earths on the surface of our planet, if we first transmute ourselves perhaps The Earth will follow suite..

Ghislain
01-21-2012, 08:39 AM
Perhaps everything is now what it is supposed to be ... it may just be how one percieves it that makes a difference.

Isn't the way forward right in front of us?

http://genius.toucansurf.com/way%20forward.gif

Ghislain

Ghislain
01-21-2012, 10:31 AM
Which one are you?

http://genius.toucansurf.com/perspective%20behind%20bars.jpg

Ghislain

solomon levi
01-21-2012, 11:38 AM
"The disciples say to Jesus: "Tell us what our end will be."
Jesus says: "Have you then deciphered the beginning, that you ask about the end?
For where the beginning is, there shall be the end. Blessed is the man who reaches the beginning;
he will know the end, and will not taste death!""
- the gospel of Thomas

Andro
01-21-2012, 11:49 AM
Quoth Sol, quoting Major Thomas:


Blessed is the man who reaches the beginning.

Quoth David Bowie:


We are absolute beginners

Quoth Ghislain:


Which one are you?

Quoth Androgynus:


I am on the Inside and on the Outside, I am Within and Without, I AM The Beginning and The End.

And so are you... each and everyone of you...

Andro
01-21-2012, 12:22 PM
Which one are you?

http://genius.toucansurf.com/perspective%20behind%20bars.jpg

Possibly neither, gradually...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EWc7KyBnjjU/Te4CHSYhnRI/AAAAAAAAJ5M/8jJSYV5WOL0/s1600/empty+prison+cell.jpg

Quoth Captain Picard (and probably many others):


The FIRST duty of the prisoner is to escape.

solomon levi
01-21-2012, 01:12 PM
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room.
You can see it when you look out your window, or when you turn on your television.
You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes.
It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.


Neo: What truth?

Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage,
born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind.
Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.



“If a man could understand all the horror of the lives of ordinary people who are turning around
in a circle of insignificant interests and insignificant aims, if he could understand what they are losing,
he would understand that there can only be one thing that is serious for him — to escape from the
general law, to be free. What can be serious for a man in prison who is condemned to death?
Only one thing: How to save himself, how to escape: nothing else is serious.”

– G. I. Gurdjieff

Andro
01-21-2012, 01:37 PM
Yes, absolutely.

But there's more... (Isn't there always??? :))

How do we KNOW we are not 'escaping' from one smaller 'prison cell' to a larger one?

The Matrix is an excellent movie.

However, the ONLY one who manages to escape is Neo.

The Matrix continues to feed on those who are plugged into it, and the 'unplugged ones' believe that Neo 'saved' them.

They were not saved, but rather remained stuck in the same paradigm of physical survival in a double/dualistic reality.

Neo only saved himself, but only after losing his 'beloved' Trinity (his 'precioussss'). Nothing left to keep him in the addictive loops of the 'Matrix Reality'.


"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

He performed the INNER Alchemical Marriage of polarities WITHIN himself by integrating his Shadow (Agent Smith).

All those he left behind will continue to play the same game over and over again...

But for Neo, his Magnum Opus is completed at the end of the third sequel.

Quoth 'The Core': "It is accomplished" (or something along these lines).

Sounds familiar?