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Phoenix
01-04-2009, 05:08 PM
This is a Phoenix-thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?t=7) from the old site (http://alchemy-forums.forumotion.com/forum.htm) created by taceyoto.

Hello, in my search for Alchemical Knowledge I came acros the Flamel College's home study course on Alchemy and was wondering if anyone had taken it and could share insight into how well it is. I am interested in taking it and would love any information from an actual student of it. Just a heads up on how good or bad it is. Also, Anyone here a member of the International Alchemy Guild? They are kind of hand in hand so I wondered about thier credentials as well. Thanks for anything!
Some links for those wondering what taceyoto is talking about:

Flamel College (http://www.flamelcollege.org/)
Flamel College Library (http://www.flamelcollege.org/library.htm)
IAG, The (http://www.alchemyguild.org/index2.htm)


My apologies for not including links, lesson learned!
No worries...

I don't think anyone here is a member of IAG, although I have sent them an e-mail invitation!

Sometimes Alchemy can be just as Elitist as any other organisation or ism... which is a shame. I have nothing against IAG... yet. Would be nice if someone from there would turn up amongst us common folks.

As for taking the courses you might find a member here that has done that, although I don't know who... I seem to recall someone was talking about it...


Well, if no one has I reckon I will and then let everyone know. I have a fierce sense of loyatly ( as long as I am not betrayed, I have a zero tolerance policy for betrayal) so I was here first, and will remain as long as this forum stands. When I join, I will always be an active member here if I can.

Nice!

And we are happy to have you here!
Has anybody looked at these
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/bookshop/study_course.html
I'm also really interested in taking a study course.
This is an old post but for those who're still wondering, I found very negative reviews of the online Flamel College courses (and there are other online alchemy courses called by different names but still the same courses as Flamel College, so people should keep that in mind and compare together). Also, this doesn't put the International Alchemy Guild into a good light since they're associated.

Here's a quote from a former student:


I was just told by a former student that D.W. Hauck [alchemist David William Hauck] is the sole person behind the ETX, International Alchemy Guild, Alchemylab, Flamel College, and Crucible.org. It's like they are all part of a interlinked scam to give the perspective student the illusion of credibility and substance when there is in fact none to be found.

Here's the whole thread: Any of you experience Flamel College Program? (http://alchemical.tribe.net/thread/afc899cc-2a2c-4cb0-9390-c1b89e3616a7)
There is much free information readily gleamed from the internet, libraries, and occasionally a friend or two. And though it is daunting, I've always felt the quest is something much more personal then the generic proliferation these courses provide. If I would suggest to anyone, I would recommend Adam Mclean's various courses- since he is very adamant about not placing his ideas on the source material, but rather letting it speak for itself. And this is something I find very noble in our over marketed to Davinci Code era.
Do you know anything about the "International Alchemy Guild" Carabric?
I suppose your mileage may vary, but I don't believe any grand secrets would be revealed to you joining this or any of the guilds/schools/courses taught online. IAG obviously receives money to be involved in their activities- the going rate being anywhere from $30-$125 if you want a lifetime membership. Of course beyond this you'd need supplies, books, herbs, glassware etc that they recommend you use for their experiments... and the recommended place to purchase all of this is from crucible.org which is owned by IAG. None of this makes them bad or untrustworthy, universities do this and people go on to have careers in their field of interest.
It more or less comes down to what goals you have regarding alchemy, and how you choose to interpret alchemy. I am of the opinion that what they, and all of the schools found online teach, is not alchemy but rather a pseudo chemistry with tinges of metaphysical meanderings. I know it sounds harsh- but I don't mean this as an insult if anyone follows or ascribes to this type of belief, these are just my opinions and observations. More often then not you are given a second hand interpretation of historical text, or you may be guided by experiments/ideas that may or may not be alchemical in nature that are derived from random experimentation (Kunkin's rock comes to mind). To me alchemy is a personal religion, I would no more ascribe to another persons interpretation then I would consult a priest, rabbi, guru, or holy man to tell me about God. It's not to say that I have not benefited from the ideas of other people, but for the most part this is a solo gig. Read, compare, find your theories in more then one treatise, book, or person- and make sure it complies with nature. It's easy to be duped in the beginning, don't be so ready to separate with your money, time, or labor. Adam (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/) provides so much free information, and even though he can be a bit cantankerous- in my mind he is something of a small saint.
I am both a student of Flamel College and IAG. Yes, it is run by Dennis Hauck. I'm using it more as a guiding program while still doing my own research.

It should be known to anyone interested in starting this Art, the only person that can truly teach it is the student. It is a very personal journey and I've found with any philosophy (it's the same with hypnosis), if the mind rejects the notion then it will not be real to the native. However, I can also say that without some guidance in the right direction, the ancient and antique texts most commonly associated with alchemy are undecipherable. I recently had a conversation with a Lodge Brother ignorant to any of the processes of alchemy but has been reading Jung and Paracelsus. While he's very intuitive and intelligent, he admits that his understanding of some more allegorical texts such as Pymander is quite limited.

I think that Flamel College does a good job of creating a jump off point, but if you really want to grow as an alchemist you do need to do your own research. That being said, the only negative thing I can think of regarding the school and IAG is their timing. Their response time and shipping of materials is delayed to the point of frustration.

Seth-Ra
05-08-2009, 01:00 AM
Has anyone heard anything new about IAG or the study courses?
I know that the IAG personally "took over" Flamel's courses, supposedly due to Flamel not having enough instructors.

I was thinking of taking their classes, or at the very least, buying the lab set-up. (which i need anyway, cause using the simple things around the house is becoming a bit bothersome...)

http://alchemyhomestudy.com/

on there is the courses, the "student labs" they offer, and there is also a forum... funny thing is, i have not seen a single post on the forum yet, and i registered an account and everything... it kinda seems odd to me...

Dizardos
05-08-2009, 01:36 AM
I can assure you that the art of unlimited gold and perfect health is not for sale and never will be for sale. I am not in the position to judge whether others would find such courses useful, but the two above mentioned gifts will not magically move into arm's reach after following a course.

Seth-Ra
05-08-2009, 01:49 AM
I agree, but i would imagine that some sorta course, and maybe a "fancy degree" (lol) in alchemy would be nice and possibly "look" better to people you may want to use or sell your stuff too. Plus i hear the IAG's archives are really really awesome... so it just seemed like a perk to learn more, and get access to the archives, plus being able to "possibly" make being an alchemist a source of income. ;)

Aleilius
05-08-2009, 02:44 AM
I remain skeptical of all these particular "study courses" and what not. You're only gaining part of the picture by studying these courses. True alchemy is, and always has been, a solitary art. Read the works of the old masters, be inspired by nature, and gain a solid understand of nature. Understanding nature is the key!

There is a difference between those with knowledge of our art, and those with understanding of our art. Understanding is far more golden than knowledge. Knowledge does not lead to understanding. However, understanding does lead to knowledge. Likewise, having a degree in something does not always mean you're better off than one without a degree, and it certainly isn't a good measure of one's knowledge, understanding, or adeptship.

Seth-Ra
05-08-2009, 03:15 AM
Aleilius, i couldnt agree more. I never thought having a degree would mean one was "better", just that it would look better to our modern, degree-driven world. I for one like learning on my own, but i know that sometimes appearances are "important for business". Im not calling the wonderful Art of Alchemy a "business", but i would like to be able to use it to its fullest. ;)

i dont know, was just wondering and toying with the idea of trying it. :)

Tesposinus
05-12-2009, 04:22 PM
Hi Seth-Ra!

I hear what you're saying about the idea of following a course which I personally do not find a bad thing either. However, at the same time I very much agree with the others. Alchemy is a very solitary path and there are indeed courses here and there that promise things that seem very irrelevant and pointless to someone who merely wishes to study and practice the noble science of alchemy.

I myself am an old student of the Flamel College alchemy course and I will be quite honest with you in regards to my experience with it. I have no desire to glorify or offend any individual nor organization so I will not endeavor in doing either.

I originally became a student of Flamel College back when I had very little alchemy knowledge besides that from the wonderful "Alchemist's Handbook" by Frater Albertus. And the idea of a course that actually taught alchemy from the most basic of teachings up to the more advanced was very appealing to me. So I became a member and to this day I will be honest and admit, in spite of what some people believe and say, that the FC alchemy teachings were the first to really teach me what alchemy is (along with Frater Albertus' book, of course). I have greatly enjoyed studying the teachings they presented me with through the various modules, although I personally think they are somewhat negligent of laboratory work. You DO learn laboratory work, definitely. But what I mean is that there is much, much more work to be found in the core operations of the paths of the Opus Minor and the Magnum Opus than what they present you with. You are taught basic methods for creating plant tinctures and elixirs - both the simple method (using jars) as well as using the more elaborate tools of alchemy. But there is nothing on the Ens, the Circulatum Minus or the Plant Stone - two of them being topics that I find crucial to the alchemist in his/her progression through the plant work!

Later one, however, learns some about the oils of metals and some other miscellaneous works regarding the metals. And one is also taught the Way of Divine Cinnabar for confecting the Philosopher's Stone. So one is not at all left out when it comes to instructions in laboratory work. But I still feel that there is more one needs for proper study and practice of this ancient and noble art and science. Therefore, once I had learned more about what alchemy really is and what it is about (which I did from the FC teachings), I began purchasing various books that taught the GOOD stuff and avoid the ones written by people who had no knowledge of or experience in alchemy whatsoever. And then I combined the teachings of these books with what I learned from FC. I also obtained all of the PON (Philosopher's of Nature) alchemy teachings - which is absolutely recommended above any other so-called "courses" - and added them to the whole stack. And of course all the ancient alchemy texts as well... ;)

So the bottomline is, I would not suggest that you stay away from Flamel College, because one thing they do have are good teachings on the history, theory and philosophy of alchemy. So if you feel like giving them a try, go right ahead. But don't stick with them alone. Simply use their teachings along with that of for instance PON, Robert Bartlett's books and Junius' classic on plant alchemy. I personally do not follow the FC course as a "main guide" or anything like that, because I feel that Robert Bartlett's "Real Alchemy" or the PON teachings are better for that. But I still like to add the FC teachings to the rest of it because, like I said, they DO have some good stuff here and there.

One final thing, though, and I greatly apologize for the length of this post, but there is some talk about the administration at FC and yes... this IS indeed a problem - one that I have had to endure for a very long time myself. And in addition, there is some dispute that many of the teachings found in Dennis W. Hauck's books on alchemy can be found in the FC course as well. This is true as Dennis was very likely the one guy who wrote the entire FC alchemy course, but at the same time there is a lot of practical info that Dennis does not give in his books that are only available through the FC teachings.

So what it all comes down to... if you feel that you wouldn't mind spending the money (and the time), then I would say that you should feel free to become a student of Flamel College. But if you, after having read this, feel that you would like to spend your money on something else in stead, then you always have the option of purchasing Dennis' books, Sorcerer's Stone and The Complete Idiot's Guide to Alchemy, which give you a lot of that good history, theory and philosophy that is also found in the FC teachings. And all the practical stuff... well, you can learn that from other sources such as Bartlett and PON.

I hope this was of some help to you. :)

Yours in the Great Work,

Tesposinus

P.S. Please completely disregard the certificates they give you. I, again, have no complaints with FC whatsoever and I have enjoyed studying their teachings on alchemy, but I don't really care about the certificates they grant you. No manner of diplomas or other such items will ever prove your work on the path. Only the work you have done will be proof. A certificate just shows you have completed a course. You are the only one who will know whether or not you have actually done the work.

Seth-Ra
05-12-2009, 08:06 PM
I too, agree that there is more out there then the course material and that one must do their own research. I own Bartlett's Book, and Dennis's "Sorcerer's Stone", as well as a couple others, not to mention the information ive gathered from the internet. I personally hold no "stock" in the certificates they give, but in our society and world, people like for the one they are working with to have some sorta paper to back it, so though its not important to us, it looks better to the ones we may try and help. I appreciate the information you provided about it, as im still considering it. Ive actually wanted to take their courses for some time. (But again one of the most "important" points of it, for me, is to get a look at the archives.) :D ;)

Thanks for the information about it though, i do appreciate it. :)


~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
05-13-2009, 12:45 AM
To me, you should follow whatever ideas or intuitions or attractions you get.
The pieces of the puzzle can come from anywhere.
If you are interested in the course, then that's what you should do.
If you ask othersd what you should do, you're just inviting confusion IMO.

IMO, an alchemist must first trust him/herself - you won't
get anywhere on this path without your spirit.
If one doesn't trust oneself, alchemy can be a very dangerous, even
deadly, path.

DWHauck
04-24-2010, 10:03 PM
You asked if there were anyone on the forum that was a member of the Alchemy Guild, and I wanted to introduce myself. I am the president of the Guild, Dennis William Hauck. I'll reply to some of the questions brought up in this thread.

I joined the Alchemy Guild 40 years ago when I was a graduate student at the University of Vienna. Back then, the meetings took place in beer halls, but we were all serious seekers of truth. When I came back to the United States, I started a branch and opened it to the public. Today the Guild is a federal and state tax-exempt public charity. No one at the Guild gets paid. We all volunteer out of our passion for alchemy.

I started the Alchemy Home Study Program in 1998, but it quickly became too much for me, and in 2002, I transferred it into Andrea Zuckavich's Flamel College, since she had already set up a great Hermetic teaching network. But in the last few years, she has been short on qualified instructors and there were complaints, so she transferred it back with Alex Hayden as the manager. It now has nothing to do with Flamel College, and has it's own website at www.AlchemyHomeStudy.com .

The only connection between Flamel College and the Guild is that the Guild pays for Flamel web hosting in a program in which the Guild supports alchemical websites with grants. There are now about 20 webs in this category now.

Of course because of me, there are close ties between the Guild and the Alchemy Home Study Program. For one thing, all instructors are now certified by the Guild, so that is a great source of qualified people. The Guild is just beginning a grant program to fund alchemy schools around the world, so the Alchemy Home Study Program may receive funding from the Guild in the future, depending if sponsors materialize.

I cannot endorse Flamel College course, and the transfer of students from them has been complicated by lack of proper records and payments. However, I can vouch for the Alchemy Guild. Despite the stigma associated with any organization that calls itself an "Alchemy Guild", this group has done amazing work spreading true alchemical wisdom in both practical and spiritual alchemy. They have members in 23 countries and puts on the annual International Alchemy Conference www.AlchemyConference.com .

Anyway, hope this helps clarify things for forum members.

Dennis William Hauck
www.DWHauck.com

True Initiate
04-25-2010, 07:24 PM
Nice to meet you here Dennis.

I reside now in Vienna like you before and would like to ask you if you know some alchemical organization in this town?I would like to join effforts´with the other brother's in person and not just through the internet.

Thanks.

Awani
04-28-2010, 01:25 AM
We all volunteer out of our passion for alchemy.

Same as in these forums... welcome!

Hopefully we will get some interesting posts from you, especially regarding the spiritual sides of alchemy.

:cool:

Awani
05-30-2010, 12:12 AM
Hmm... I was afraid Hauck was just here to place an ad... a shame since we already link to sites he is affiliated with a lot!

How un-alchemical!

Maybe he is a busy man, and I hope he proves me wrong...

:cool:

Joy
05-30-2010, 08:29 AM
The problem is always, when you run a group or a place, that they are
very few, which are putting work in, and hundrets of others are waiting
that these few presents them things, they can consume.

So if you have a vision, you need qualified helpers, which work for no
money and give a lot of time.

Here I see the main problem!!!