View Full Version : Following Threads... [the road to Utopia]

10-07-2011, 10:42 AM
I learn through the process of following threads that seem somehow to lead me to what I am searching for.

In a post by III I noticed a word that may have been misspelled or perhaps a word I didn't know:

All phenonina is illusion.
Neither attracted nor repelled.
Not making any sudden moves.
My habits will carry me through.

The word “phenonina” didn't show up and so I guessed it was a misspelling of “phenomina”,
which, while in the dictionary, I decided to look up.

So This is how the threads went...

A thing as it appears to and is constructed by the mind,
as distinguished from a noumenon, or thing-in-itself.
Immanuel Kant
22 April 1724 – 12 February 1804
Kant’s Magnun Opus
“Critique of Pure Reason”

Philosophy: the Kantian doctrine that reality consists not
of appearances, but of some other order of being whose
existence can be inferred from the nature of human reason.

Ethics: the rule that one must do only what one can will
that all others should do under similar circumstances;
the unconditional command of conscience.

Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the
same time, will that it should become a universal law.

“Thoughts on the True Estimation of Living Forces”
Kant’s first book where he argues against the proposition that bodies have no essential force, and claimed
that, instead, the existence of an essential force can be proven by metaphysical arguments

Kant concluded that time is not a thing in itself determined from experience, objects, motion, and change, but
rather an unavoidable framework of the human mind that preconditions possible experience.

“Answering the Question: What Is Enlightenment”?
An essay by Kant

“Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.”

“Immaturity is self-inflicted not from a lack of understanding, but from the lack of courage
to use one’s reason, intellect, and wisdom without the guidance of another.”

The motto of enlightenment is “Sapere aude”
Dare to be wise! ...

Bringing me to my philosophy, which is that we all live in one world...communism is the only way forward...before you cringe away at the
word communism ...I am not talking of the mundane rule imposed forms of communism we have seen in Russia, China and the likes...I am
talking of self imposed communism where each and every person works for the benefit of each other without being placed under oppressive
rule constrictions...where freedom is the norm...this could go on so that’s it in brief.

When I propose this way of life to others they tell me that what I want is utopia and that is not going to happen...:)


“It is difficult for individuals to work their way out of this immature, cowardly life because we
are so uncomfortable with the idea of thinking for ourselves. Kant says that even if we did throw off
the spoon-fed dogma and formulas we have absorbed, we would still be stuck, because we have
never “cultivated our minds.” The key to throwing off these chains of mental immaturity is reason.
There is hope that the entire public could become a force of free thinking individuals if they are free
to do so. Why? There will always be a few people, even among the institutional "guardians", who
think for themselves. They will help the rest of us to “cultivate our minds.”. A revolution may well
put an end to autocratic despotism . . . or power-seeking oppression, but it will never produce a true
reform in ways of thinking.”

Kant cautions that new prejudice will replace the old and become a new leash to control the “great unthinking masses.”

Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_is_Enlightenment%3F)

Don’t let that happen!

Food for thought.

Follow your nose :)


Edit: III if you had spelled 'phenomina' correctly I may never have stumbled upon Kant.

10-07-2011, 11:06 AM
I am talking of self imposed communism where each and every person works for the benefit of each other without being placed under oppressive
rule constrictions...where freedom is the norm...this could go on so that’s it in brief.

Communism and capitalism, and other isms have never of course been done correctly, to the fullest of its meaning. But there is a natural downside.

Communism is a social, political and economic movement that aims for an establishment of a classless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and which abolishes the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate... - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism)

I am focused on common ownership. This always leads to a State. There has to be a form of organization that is the common owner. Someone has to run the trains even if we all own the trains. The whole western world is in a sense communistic because the argument for taxes is that the people own everything together and the taxes pay for the services (at least it is so in the "socialistic" parts of the western world).

Because of this communism will always be faulty. It will never work. I understand what you mean, but I think using that word is still confusing. I think what you describe is closer to anarchism (not the one preached by black flag waving brick throwers). The best text, IMO, on anarchism is without a doubt: http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/aando/anarchism.html

A little excerpt:

Anarchism is the only philosophy which brings to man the consciousness of himself; which maintains that God, the State, and society are non-existent, that their promises are null and void, since they can be fulfilled only through man's subordination. Anarchism is therefore the teacher of the unity of life; not merely in nature, but in man. There is no conflict between the individual and the social instincts, any more than there is between the heart and the lungs: the one the receptacle of a precious life essence, the other the repository of the element that keeps the essence pure and strong. The individual is the heart of society, conserving the essence of social life; society is the lungs which are distributing the element to keep the life essence--that is, the individual--pure and strong.

"The one thing of value in the world," says Emerson, "is the active soul; this every man contains within him. The soul active sees absolute truth and utters truth and creates." In other words, the individual instinct is the thing of value in the world. It is the true soul that sees and creates the truth alive, out of which is to come a still greater truth, the re-born social soul.

Anarchism is the great liberator of man from the phantoms that have held him captive; it is the arbiter and pacifier of the two forces for individual and social harmony. To accomplish that unity, Anarchism has declared war on the pernicious influences which have so far prevented the harmonious blending of individual and social instincts, the individual and society.

People always say to me as well that I am talking about Utopia when I utter my beliefs, and that Utopia is impossible. I always reply that it is because of people that hail its impossibility that makes it impossible. This usually pisses them off even more as they know I am right. He he...


10-07-2011, 10:40 PM
The whole western world is in a sense communistic because the argument for taxes is that the people
own everything together and the taxes pay for the services

Even when those taxes are being used without general consensus to wage war on weaker nations to guarantee
the free flow of commodities we extort from them.

I do look at the word, “Anarchy” with some trepidation...the picture of radical people trashing the
system without an idea of what the outcome might be. However reading your description of it
brings some comfort. :)

There is no conflict between the individual and the social instincts, any more than
there is between the heart and the lungs

This is what I would like to believe however I have to wonder is laziness and selfishness an
inherent quality of human beings or are they memes that are picked up along the way due to
our monetarist social structure...are tribal people, sheltered from modern-day life, more

Maybe, If every individual became enlightened then each would know their place in the social order
of things...like in herds of wild animals or the swooping murmuration of Starlings; each working for
the benefit of the whole or the benefit of the individual as part of a whole, whichever way you want
to look at it.

Not a great example as in herds there are the alpha males and such, but that has more to do with
mating than the day to day habits of the herd I think. Although some may argue that sexual
reproduction is all that life is about and everything else is just trimmings. \o/

The Monetary System...all hail £$€

I moan about people accumulating riches....some say they deserve it and that they create jobs for
others...I call them ignorant thieves; ignorant in respect that they don’t know they are thieves...most
of the time their riches are accumulated by convincing the masses that they have needs which in
reality are nonexistent.

Others accumulate riches by being paid for the passionate skills they posses...these people would
utilise those skills for peanuts...it’s because they have a passion for that skill that they developed it in
the first place...the desire for the remuneration is instilled by the thief that is going to grasp some of
that remuneration for themselves even though they have no skill of their own, corporate cuckoos.

“Og Mandino's classic “The Greatest Salesman in the World” remains an invaluable guide
towards a philosophy of salesmanship”. Amazon Review.

It goes on to say:

“It is a simple but profound “spiritual” philosophy about how to succeed in the world's

What is spiritual about fleecing people?

“A Marketplace”, is that how we should see the world? That is how we got to where we
are now...you know the saying “if something doesn’t change then everything stays the
same” ... that’s where we are at right now...more of the same please!

How about the world as “A Community” helping each other in the knowledge that you
may receive help if you need it?

Look at money as a token to replace bartering for the sake of convenience,

For example:

You fix a fence for Farmer Giles and he gives you a chicken...you fix the plough for
Farmer Giles and he gives you a chicken...pretty soon you have too many chickens and
plus you have other needs so Farmer Giles gives you a promissory note, a token, which
you can transfer with someone else for other goods or services so that they may procure
a chicken from Farmer Giles...etc...etc...
Now if that had not been done then we would still be bartering with goods...how would
that look?

Bill gates would appear pretty silly with all those billions of chickens would he not?

Money is, or should be, a token for “work done”...and I guess it still is, but guess
what...someone is stealing your tokens for the work you have done...if you don’t think
so then please explain how the likes of Bill Gates can accumulate so many tokens when
he has the same 24 hours in his day as any one else... your tokens have not only been
stolen but the precious time with your family has gone too.

I am not judging these people as wicked or evil, they have been brought up in a society
that encourages that sort of behaviour.

No one is paid what they are worth because if they were the employer would not achieve
any profit/swag :)

I am focused on common ownership. This always leads to a State.

Does that not lead us back to where we are? Whoever is put in a position of responsibility ultimately begins to
wield power and we all know where that leads.

Talking of utopia

I always reply that it is because of people that hail its impossibility that makes it impossible.

That is exactly the reply I give. How do people think change will commence if they are not willing to
implement any change in themselves?

I do understand that there is not enough altruism to implement a “one for all and all for
one” society...YET!


10-07-2011, 11:10 PM
Even when those taxes are being used without general consensus to wage war on weaker nations to guarantee
the free flow of commodities we extort from them.

Not sure if I was clear, but my statement was not my opinion, only the argument of the State and its brainwashed citizens. I am 100 % against taxation.

This is what I would like to believe however I have to wonder is laziness and selfishness an
inherent quality of human beings...

I think the problem is contentment. A great evil.

No one is paid what they are worth because if they were the employer would not achieve
any profit/swag :)

Actually you are a little incorrect. I myself am an employer. Probably the only anarchist/idealist/capitalist in the State I am in, LOL, and I can say these 7 important facts:

the amount of the salary depends on the pressure of the taxes and the State
employers are expensive because the law makes them so
when you run a corporation you are an employee of the State, when you are a normal employee you are that of the corporation
this means the employer and the employee are in the same boat
this system has created a "class" war between the two
the result of this is that the employee is a vampire on the employer and vice versa. Both trying to squeeze out as much as possible of the other in order to achieve some sort of monetary goal to finance freedom, as freedom is expensive in modern society. Believe me when I say that most employees think the corporations grow money on trees or are given money from the State when in fact the money comes from the employees work that is taxed multiple times
all government agencies, departments and such are corporations with a board and a profit

It is a perfect system, a strong castle, built only on the fact that people fear the law and fear to break it. To rob a store is not to break a law, and takes zero guts to do. To refuse to pay tax, to refuse to follow salary regulations and corporate law takes more than balls. It takes planning and above all it takes will.

Let me add that I don't run a multimillion dollar corporation like the examples I am sure you had in mind, but the same laws apply to the small, middle and big ones. The big corps of course have the benefit of lawyers/bribes which are expensive, and I guess that is the main difference really.

Does that not lead us back to where we are? Whoever is put in a position of responsibility ultimately begins to
wield power and we all know where that leads.

I have not been clear again... what I meant was that I am against common ownership because it always leads to the formation of a State. I am focused on that part of the communism quote!

I have written a great deal on MONEY, and probably posted some of it here and there in the forums... but I have an essay (yet a work in progress) that might interest you where I discuss some of the points you bring up. I can PM you it if you want. Maybe give you additional ideas or give me some pointers, the author always becomes blind and it is always good to get fresh perspectives. I might have missed an angle.

The corporations are not really evil, nor is it the state. Let me give you a metaphor:

The corporations and the government/state/law is an alcohol addiction. The alcohol itself is not evil, nor is the user. What is evil is the lack of will to stop drinking!

Anyway these are my thoughts on the matter!

Let me finish with a quote that represents the best path forward, IMO:



10-07-2011, 11:44 PM
I added some to the title of this thread, because it is hard to see what it is about (and might be difficult to find in future searches)...


Feel free to change it to something better if you wish:)

10-08-2011, 09:51 AM
Dev, when I used the word ‘communism’ it was just for the want of a better word...people working
together to the benefit of a whole is all I meant.

I have an essay ... I can PM you it if you want.

Yes I would like to read your essay please Dev.

On the point of employer/employee...I am in total agreement as I too was once an employer, sub
contracting in the building industry. Hard times came and I saw the evil minds money, or better still lack of it, can produce.

BUT...if there is a job to be done and that job pays X then why should the person who completes the
the task get less than X?

Loosely I could put this down to an agent’s fee...the employer being the agent that supplies the
worker with the jobs. Then one has to ask what percentage should the agent be allowed to take?

In sub contracting my goal was to make a lot more money than my 24 hours could possibly allow by
utilising the hours of others to do it. How successful one is in this endeavour is neither here nor
there. What is important is the, “intension to use”; employer or user...is there a difference?

At present I am the shop steward representing my department for a large railway union. So
I am able to see both sides of the fence. People, i.e. the workforce, inherently want as much as they
can possibly squeeze out of the company. This is just a game where the company plead poverty and
the workers bluff a withdrawal of their labour; hopefully both coming to an agreement in some
centre ground.

The point is that if the workers are asking for more than the company can give without
compromising on the profits they require, then the negotiations would be at an end and the
company have the right, as the law stands (UK), to impose whatever rules they like given 90 days
notice. In this case the worker will have to either accept the new proposal or withdraw his/her
labour. In a world of high unemployment and rising costs who do you think will win?

Which brings us to the point of the fabricated world banking crisis...
Who, in this day and age, could afford to withdraw their labour?

The buzz word in the financial sector right now is “recapitalisation”...giving more money
to the banks...:)...I should be a banker...that is spelled with a ‘b’ isn’t it?

"You will probably need 2-3 trillion euros to frighten the market.” Carl Astorri, global head of
economics and asset strategy at Coutts ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coutts)

2-3 trillion?

1 trillion ... 1,000,000,000,000

Most people cannot even begin to envision what a trillion is!...it’s a lot :)

Q... Where does this new money come from...?
A... It comes from printers!...it is pseudo money which will never really exist...apart from in the
assets the bank now own that belonged to the people lending the pseudo money.

Manipulation at its zenith

By instilling fear you can control the populace...QED.

The corporations and the government/state/law is an alcohol addiction. The alcohol itself is not evil, nor is the user. What is evil is the lack of will to stop drinking!

Can we have your glasses gentlemen please!...It’s time for change!


10-08-2011, 04:09 PM
Even though I am "working class", and come from poor backgrounds I have never felt part of that group. Neither have I felt part of the "suits". The latter has always been OK to complain about with words like greedy and snobby. But I always get in trouble in "red" circles because I have the same opinion about the workers.

A working class hero is a joke. Workers are slaves. What the fuck is there to be proud about?

A person who has slaved in a factory for 30 years, and is bitter, can only blame him/herself. When I was a worker myself I quickly felt that I did not want to be in this position for the rest of my life. When I quit to go my own way some of the workers told me they wished they could do the same. They could, they just didn't have neither the will nor the mind to do it. I guess their soul was broken? Even though one can find reasons why this has happened in the end the responsibility lies with the individual.

It is a controversial opinion, but the slave is a slave because s/he allows the slavery to happen. If no objection happens then the slave deserves the chains.

Responsibility for oneself is non-existant. Instead the blame is turned towards the corporation, the state, the law... whatever... but it is the self that is to blame. Always.

As for unions I can only speak of Sweden, and here the union are truly greedy, corrupt motherfuckers that work for profit and never for the rights of the workers. Those rights are laws anyway so the union in my part of the world has lost any validity. It is not Mexico. :)

If the people who create jobs go on strike the effect would be greater than any worker strike. The irony is that anyone can create jobs, yet again the lack of will is the culprit. And any abuse of the worker (for the average corporation, not the big multimillion dollar ones) is a direct result of the greatest parasite the world has ever seen: the State.

When I create a business it is my creation to do with as I wish. No one is forced to be a part of it. No one should be allowed to tell me what to do with it, as long as I don't hurt anyone. For example if a worker becomes alcoholic I as its employer has to, by law, pay for that persons rehab! Why do I become responsible for a persons addiction just because I start a business? If a person is an addict it is certainly not my problem, but his/her. Anyway enough rambling...

My own view of the matter is that the system we are in can be manipulated to ones own advantage and independence. It takes both time and knowledge, and is not easy but can be done. If only the worker would be loyal to the employe instead of the state and the law. But the brainwashing is so deep that this will probably never happen anytime soon.


10-08-2011, 04:41 PM
Perhaps the word 'communalism' works better than communism, as it carries the notion of 'commune,' as a noun and as a verb, and does NOT elicit a totalitarian political regime.
Kant is often regarded as the first Christian existentialist. Most existentialist who followed, like Camus and Sartre, or even a contemporary existentialist, like Irv Yalom, M.D., who operates in the field of psychotherapy are atheists. It's all about Phenomena, not an underlying Noumena, about Existence, not Being (the Ontological). No 'Creative Intelligence' from which the phenomenal world emerges, and no ultimate meaning either. reductionistically materialistic, with consciousness being an emergent quality of matter, not an impregnation of matter, as in Gnosticism, Qabalah, or Alchemy.

10-09-2011, 10:08 AM
It is funny how we want to be classless and yet in a country like India,
which sports such peace loving religions as, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism
and Sikhism, there is such a strong class structure. Can 1.2 billion people
have it so wrong?

The German philosopher Nietzsche championed the class structure as a
necessity and the foundation on which societies were built.

Maybe it worked back then but today they have it so wrong...we are
moving from the age of Pisces into the age of Aquarius with human
beings becoming free thinkers there is no need for the masses to be led
any more...we can all work together no longer as slave and master but as

If the people who create jobs go on strike the effect would be
greater than any worker strike.

I agree. Today’s workers may find that they didn’t need the employer to
create the jobs in the first place and that they are quite capable of
thinking for themselves...in the mean time the people who were creating
the jobs, now being redundant, would most likely join the workers.

There is no one to blame for the slave culture. Most people don’t see that
they are in chains...it stems back years and people mould into the roles
because of the memes they pick up along the way...only recently I kept
pestering my son about getting a job...he has got one now and he’s on
minimum wage in a recycling plant sorting other peoples muck. Did I do
the right thing? Can I say, “if nothing else it’s character building”? Or
have I just done what my memes have told me to do - get my son back
into his chains and be like other sheep?

Try this: when with a group of people you feel comfortable around, start
laughing and get someone to laugh along with you...other people will join
in. Stop and ask them why they are laughing. They will have to admit
they don’t know...they were laughing because you were...it seemed the
right thing to do and who wants to admit they don’t know what they are

As for unions I can only speak of Sweden, and here the union are
truly greedy, corrupt motherfuckers that work for profit and never for the
rights of the workers.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and that stands
for whoever wields the power. The state wields the power with the
blessing of the people...of course they are corrupt ...it’s to be expected,
but do you think that a junior politician goes into the field of politics with
corruption in mind? They probably think they are going to make great
changes...what a shock they must get.

The power in the employment industry however goes through peaks and
troughs just like anything else. Back in 70’s Britain the union took control
and ruined our industry; they lost their credibility and the balance of
power shifted to the employers who brought down wages using methods
that would start a whole new thread here. Today that balance is shifting
again due to the discomfort of the working classes.

Unions are a necessary evil IMO Try taking them away and see what
happens to the workers...there is a great book called,

“The Ragged Trouser Philanthropists” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ragged-Trousered_Philanthropists#Plot_introduction) by Robert Tressel, first published in 1914

three years after Tressels death...a must read on this subject IMHO.

When I create a business it is my creation to do with as I wish

I agree with that up until the point when you employ people in that
business...there are laws in place to stop the exploitation of the workforce
and thank goodness there is for there are some unscrupulous people out
there...just look at some of the sweat shops in third world countries...I
studied engineering and one of the classes I had to take was on the
subject of the ethics in engineering...you can guess what issues that
covered...the point is when people start a business do they have to take a
course on ethics?

I do agree with you on the ‘being responsible for employees self inflicted
habits’. I think that is ludicrous...Is that a European law? We have it
here too...it’s called Duty of Care. I shall PM you about that issue.

”It's all about Phenomena, not an underlying Noumena”


An appearance or immediate object of awareness in experience.

Kantianism . a thing as it appears to and is constructed by the mind, as
distinguished from a noumenon, or thing-in-itself.


A thing in itself, as distinguished from a phenomenon or thing as it

Kantianism . something that can be the object only of a purely intellectual,
nonsensuous intuition.

Is that to say that all existence is in the mind - ”no-thing”? When I sleep
I construct a whole world that I interact with...is that as real as here and
now in my wakeful state?

Now we are bordering on solipsism? <- another word that has led me a
merry dance :) the thing is am I in your world or are you in mine?...or
are we talking of Nihilism where life is without objective meaning,
purpose, or intrinsic value.

Can a person write enthusiastically about a subject even though it is only
a train of thought but not entirely their belief?...I think they can...if one
did not do this then wouldn’t one be blinding themselves to other
possibilities...likened to building a wall around oneself and pretending
there is nothing on the other side.

Kant is often regarded as the first Christian existentialist.

There you have it...someone who thinks outside the walls...

I don’t like to categorise people into ist’s; (are we ontologists?) that’s like
building the walls around them and only viewing from the outside. I for
instance have many conflicting values and traits...if I must be labelled
then label me a confusedist :) a student of confusism, not to be confused
with Confucianism although that would not be considered a bad thing
from my perspective.

Perhaps the word 'communalism' works better than communism

I like the notion of morphing communism into another word to fit better,
but as I said in a previous post in this thread...what I mean is just people
working together to the benefit of a whole...I mean all the people not just
the many led by the few and globally. Perhaps there is not a word that
completely encompasses this slant on society...or is it utopia?

At least utopia gets us away from the isms: -

ism: distinctive doctrine, theory, system, or practice.

Fluidity is what is needed.

Labels bring a solidity to things. Like Philip Pullman’s daemons in
“His Dark Materials” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Dark_Materials). The daemons (the vitality and personality of the
person in animal form) become fixed as the person reaches adulthood, before
this the animal can change into different animals reflecting the changing
demeanour of children as they grow. Do we have to become fixed
and labelled?

While checking out some material on Nietzsche ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Morality) and after writing the above paragraph
I found this:

Nietzsche claimed the death of God would eventually lead to the
loss of any universal perspective on things, and along with it any coherent
sense of objective truth. Instead we would retain only our own multiple,
diverse, and fluid perspectives. This view has acquired the name "perspectivism" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspectivism)

Nietzsche talked about producing an ubermench - >overman ->super
man...we could all turn into supermen?

Why isn’t it working?

Maybe first we have to overcome:

Pride: excessive belief in one's own abilities, vanity.

Envy: the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony: an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one

Lust: an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger: manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for
fury, wrath.

Greed: the desire for material wealth or gain, avarice or covetousness,
ignoring the realm of the spiritual.

Sloth: the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

All the above are completely classless :p

All comes full circle

Just to prove that...while looking at isms I was led to Hinduism, which in
turn led me to Dharma...

From Wikipedia Dharma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma) dhamma/dharma is also the term for "phenomenon".

:) The mind boggles!

I have not dealt with any of the seven challenges above...I have a try
sometimes just because of my upbringing –knowing right from
wrong...but I drifted into society with all its memes.

It is only now that I see the values that my parents were trying to instil in
me...I thought my parents were square and a little boring; always looking
at life through rose coloured glasses. Maybe they were a little, but they
had something special too...

With self reflection and hindsight comes the realisation that utopia may
be further away than I thought. Am I now a realist? ;)

If there has been any discovery for me through the writings in this thread
it is that, the changes have to come from within each individual and that
these individuals are just that – “individual”...each responsible in part for
the type of world they live in.

Every days a school day...

Welcome to the first day of the rest of my life.


10-09-2011, 02:23 PM
Is that a European law?

It is a Swedish law, but I am sure it exist in many other countries too.


10-11-2011, 12:50 AM
Dev thanks for that link...I can relate to the
ideas proffered in the article, but it
propagates more questions than it supplies

WHAT IT REALLY STANDS FOR (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/aando/anarchism.html)

...in machine subserviency, our slavery is more complete than was our bondage to
the King. They do not want to know that centralization is not only the death-knell
of liberty, but also of health and beauty, of art and science, all these being
impossible in a clock-like, mechanical atmosphere...

...anarchism’s economic arrangements must consist of voluntary productive and
distributive associations, gradually developing into free communism, as the best
means of producing with the least waste of human energy. Anarchism, however,
also recognizes the right of the individual, or numbers of individuals, to arrange at
all times for other forms of work, in harmony with their tastes and desires.

All the above appears correct, but what account does it take of the massive
populations that now exist world wide...

Can we supply all our needs without mechanisation?

Can we cater for the individual desires and tastes of everyone?

Change is a guaranteed certainty...health and beauty is achieved today by diet and
exercise that wasn’t the norm of yesteryear...
Through science we have learned what is and is not good for our health; life
expectancy today is far greater than it has ever been, except in the stories of the
I can’t say if the quality of life is better, but we always harp on about the good old
days; that weren’t actually that good.

Anarchism seems to need revolutionary action to succeed...education is really what
is needed...more quality time with children and parents...and an innate need to deal
with the seven challenges...this is what is going to change the world for the
better...you can’t fight fire with fire...well you can but it’s complicated :)

I would like to correct myself in respect of the daemons in Pullmans books. I now believe that they
have to become fixed...that is how they take their place in society...the children are the
future;the changes they make in themselves are the changes needed to find where they belong.
Like an evolving jigsaw piece.

Another thread led me to the words of Linda Creed. I think she has some answers:

The Greatest Love of All (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KjpyHX7X-o)

I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be

Everybody searching for a hero
People need someone to look up to
I never found anyone to fulfill my needs
A lonely place to be
So I learned to depend on me

I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadows
If I fail, if I succeed
At least I live as I believe
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity

Because the greatest love of all
Is happening to me
I found the greatest love of all
Inside of me

The greatest love of all
Is easy to achieve
Learning to love yourself
It is the greatest love of all

And if by chance, that special place
That you've been dreaming of
Leads you to a lonely place
Find your strength in love

Linda Creed wrote those lyrics in the midst of her struggle with breast cancer. The words
describe her feelings about coping with great challenges that one must face in life, being
strong during those challenges whether you succeed or fail, and passing that strength on to
children to carry with them into their adult lives. Creed eventually succumbed to the disease
in April 1986 at the age of 36. Although first released by George Benson, her song, at the
time of her death, was an international hit by Whitney Houston.


11-25-2011, 09:25 AM
From a thread started by Nibiru: Thread: Spirals and Vortexes (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2433-Spirals-and-Vortexes)

I tend to get a picture, applicable or not, of someone hand-stirring a Steinerian BioDynamic preparation out in a field.

This led me to:

Biodynamic Agriculture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture#Criticism) is a method of organic farming that emphasizes the holistic development and
interrelationships of the soil, plants and animals as a self-sustaining system.[1][2][3]
Biodynamic farming has much in common with other organic approaches, such as
emphasizing the use of manures and composts and excluding of the use of artificial chemicals
on soil and plants. There are independent certification agencies for biodynamic products;
most of these agencies are members of the international biodynamics standards group
Demeter International. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demeter_International)

Biodynamics was one of the first modern ecological farming systems[4][5] and is considered to
be one of the most sustainable.[6] As of 2011 biodynamic techniques were used on 142,482
hectares in 47 countries (351,930 Acres); Germany accounts for 45.1% of the global total.[7]
Methods unique to the biodynamic approach include the use of fermented herbal and mineral
preparations as compost additives and field sprays and the use of an astronomical sowing and
planting calendar.[8] Biodynamics originated out of the work of Rudolf Steiner, the founder of anthroposophy.

Biodynamic agriculture has been characterized as pseudoscience. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture#Criticism)

Which led to:

Rudolf Joseph Lorenz Steiner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner#Reception_and_controversy) [1] (25 or 27 February 1861[2] in Murakirály, Kingdom of Hungary,
Austrian Empire, now Donji Kraljevec, Croatia – 30 March 1925 in Dornach, Switzerland)
was an Austrian philosopher, social reformer, architect, and esotericist.[3][4] He gained
initial recognition as a literary critic and cultural philosopher. At the beginning of the 20th
century, he founded a spiritual movement, Anthroposophy, as an esoteric philosophy
growing out of European transcendentalism and with links to Theosophy.

then in turn led to:

Anthroposophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy), a philosophy founded by Rudolf Steiner, postulates the existence of an objective,
intellectually comprehensible spiritual world accessible to direct experience through inner
development. More specifically, it aims to develop faculties of perceptive imagination,
inspiration and intuition through cultivating a form of thinking independent of sensory
experience,[1][2] and to present the results thus derived in a manner subject to rational
verification. In its investigations of the spiritual world, anthroposophy aims to attain the
precision and clarity attained by the natural sciences in their investigations of the physical


Transcendental idealism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_philosophy) is a doctrine founded by German philosopher Immanuel Kant in the
eighteenth century. Kant's doctrine maintains that human experience of things is similar to
the way they appear to us — implying a fundamentally subject-based component, rather than
being an activity that directly (and therefore without any obvious causal link) comprehends
the things as they are in and of themselves.

Thus returning us to Immanuel Kant and Phenomena :)

Perhaps each and every one of us knows what should be, although this belief is locked up in a
bottle made from the societal memes of the crazy world we live in. Can I/we break the bottle
and release the Genie/Genii inside?

Perhaps that is the purpose of the Philosophers Stone...a tool to break the bottle releasing the
captivated treasures.


P.S. What would your three wishes be :)

08-14-2012, 04:47 PM
The following text is a bit personal, but I thought I would post anyhow to show the value in
following threads...(the threads I followed are highlighted bold)

I have Diabetes Mellitus (Type 2 diabetes), but I am not overweight or have any of the signs
usually associated with this disease, which has baffled my doctors.

While reading the thread, “Alchemy & The Mushroom (Amanita)” (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?62-Alchemy-The-Mushroom-(Amanita)&p=23907&posted=1#post23907) about the fly agaric
mushroom – Amanita Muscaria, I started to track the following threads...


Ibotenic acid and muscimol are structurally related to each other and to two major
neurotransmitters of the central nervous system: glutamic acid and GABA


Since the pancreas is also abundant for the enzyme GAD, a direct immunological destruction
occurs in the pancreas and the patients will have diabetes mellitus.

Glutamate also serves as the precursor for the synthesis of the inhibitory GABA in GABA-
ergic neurons. This reaction is catalyzed by glutamate decarboxylase (GAD), which is
most abundant in the cerebellum and pancreas.


Both GAD67 and GAD65 are targets of autoantibodies in people who later develop type 1 diabetes
mellitus or latent autoimmune diabetes


Latent Autoimmune Diabetes of Adults (LADA) is a genetically-linked, hereditary
autoimmune disorder that results in the body mistaking the pancreas as foreign and
responding by attacking and destroying the insulin-producing beta islet cells of the pancreas.
Simply stated, autoimmune disorders, including LADA, are an "allergy to self...

Many physicians or diabetes specialists don't recognize LADA or probably don't know the condition
actually exists, and so LADA is misdiagnosed as or mistaken for Type 2 diabetes highly often.

Perhaps doctors should follow threads

I shall pass this on to them and update when I get the result...


08-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Here is a thread I followed after reading a post by Seeker of Truth, “Favourite Words ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3082-Favourite-words)”

Due to the originating subject of this thread I placed into the above post the word “Phenomena”

Phenomenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenon) (Wikipedia)

“Phenomena are often, but not always, understood as 'appearances' or 'experiences'. These are
themselves sometimes understood as involving qualia.”

Qualia...the threads continued...

Qualia (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/qualia?s=t) (Dictionary.com)

1. a quality, as bitterness, regarded as an independent object.
2. a sense-datum or feeling having a distinctive quality.

Qualia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia) (Wikipedia)

Qualia, singular "quale", from a Latin word meaning for "what sort" or "what kind," is a term used in
philosophy to refer to subjective conscious experiences as 'raw feels'.

From what I can gather Qualia is a posh word for a hunch; an intuitive feeling.

Below is Qualia in an example sentence from the Wikipedia article...

“Setting aside for a moment the problem of qualia, what consciousness and self entails is actually
remarkably well agreed upon.”

Below is a site found by placing the above sentence into Google...this needs to be looked at to
continue this thread.

Crawling Into Consciousness (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/03/23/crawling-into-consciousness/)

The above example sentence is in comment 25.

In the article it mentions , “what really separates the conscious from the non-conscious is the ability
to use grammar. In particular, the subjunctive mood, in which we talk about hypothetical

A Subjunctive mood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive) is to express various states of unreality such as wish, emotion, possibility, judgment, opinion,
necessity, or action that has not yet occurred.

How much is written on Alchemy in the subjunctive mood?

In post 24 of Crawling into Consciousness Cody says, “In college I read once that it had been
hypothesized that the evolution of vision was responsible for the Cambrian explosion”

Cambrian explosion ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion ) (Wikipedia)

The Cambrian explosion or Cambrian radiation was the relatively rapid appearance (over a period of
many millions of years), around 530 million years ago, of most major animal phyla, as demonstrated
in the fossil record, accompanied by major diversification of organisms including animals,
phytoplankton, and calcimicrobes...

Over the following 70 or 80 million years the rate of evolution accelerated by an order of magnitude
(as defined in terms of the extinction and origination rate of species) and the diversity of life began
to resemble that of today...

Charles Darwin saw the Cambrian explosion as one of the main objections that could be made
against his theory of evolution by natural selection...

Enter the creationists...


The Cambrian Explosion led to the theory of punctuated equilibrium ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium), developed in the early 1970s
and which views evolution as long intervals of near-stasis "punctuated" by short periods of rapid

In a criticism of Punctuated Equilibrium the evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins) said, “the
apparent gaps represented in the fossil record document migratory events rather than evolutionary
events. According to Dawkins, evolution certainly occurred but "probably gradually" elsewhere.
However, the punctuational equilibrium model may still be inferred from both the observation of
stasis and examples of rapid and episodic speciation events documented in the fossil record.

Dawkins also emphasizes that Punctuated Equilibrium has been "oversold by some journalists"...
Dawkins contends that the theory "does not deserve a particularly large measure of publicity...it is
an interesting but minor wrinkle on the surface of neo-Darwinian theory."

The Cambrian Explosion (Remastered)


What are your views...”Creationism”,”Evolution by Chance” or “Something Else”?