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timmay13
10-25-2011, 01:58 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm new to this forum and new to alchemy in general. I thought I would share with you what has intrigued me in to doing a bit of research into alchemy. If anyone has any input on the item I would greatly appreciate any assistance with identifying it. A friend of mine found this ring while metal detecting in southern Ontario Canada. I believe I recognize the symbol for Wheel, Tin/Jupiter and Sulfur. I have no idea who is depicted on the ring or what most of the other symbols represent. I think it might also dwell in to the occult a bit. As you can see by the other rings behind the item...it is quite large. Again...any help is greatly appreciated.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/Zooms%20Ring/ZoomsRingFAce.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/Zooms%20Ring/ZoomsRingSide.jpg

MarkostheGnostic
10-25-2011, 03:21 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Cross Here's a clue.

timmay13
10-25-2011, 05:15 AM
Thank you for the response. I knew the Sulfur/Satanic Cross, Wheel and I believe I see Tin/Jupiter as well. I kinda figured it was more on the Occult side but still a lot I do not know about the ring. I'm having a hard time locating many of the symbols on the ring as well. I'm waiting to see if I can get better pics of the ring face as the glare makes a few of the symbols on the bottom of the face difficult to see.

Any other opinions or ideas or recommendations of websites to look at for research would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

solomon levi
10-25-2011, 03:54 PM
Hi.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1053-Help-me-identify-this-ring-I-found

timmay13
10-25-2011, 05:14 PM
solomon levi:

Thank you for posting that link. Very interesting to see another like it. No my curiosity is really up. I can see the symbols on the face much clearer on the links pic. I'm having my friend who has the ring in hand check it for any hallmarks. It sure is a conversation piece.

timmay13
10-27-2011, 01:44 AM
Thank you for your reply. Very interesting. I asked the owner for close-up pics of the symbols on the face of the ring and here they are. I believe I have them in correct order from the top going clockwise.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/01.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/02.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/03.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/04.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/05.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/06.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/07.jpg
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/zooms%20ring%20close%20ups/08.jpg

I hopes that this will help with identification. Thank you again in advance.

Ghislain
10-27-2011, 06:52 AM
Who is the face?

Alister Crowley?

Timothy Leary?

Just a couple of possibilities.

timmay13 could you or your friend possibly be aksafari and just forgot you had posted about this ring back in 2009 or is this a completely unrelated find?

Just curious...

Ghislain

Albion
10-27-2011, 09:57 AM
...Timothy Leary?

'Tisn't Leary... http://covers.openlibrary.org/w/id/794602-M.jpg

timmay13
10-27-2011, 03:04 PM
Thank you for the replies.


timmay13 could you or your friend possibly be aksafari and just forgot you had posted about this ring back in 2009 or is this a completely unrelated find?

Nope. This ring was uncovered about a week ago when my friend was Metal detecting in Southern Ontario.

The other post from aksafari in 2009 looks to be an identical ring except for the face of his ring has a rather large crack in the 10 - 12 o'clock area. I have messaged aksafari about their ring but I'm unsure if they will receive it as the post is old and who knows if the email used for the forum is still active.

I have asked the owner for measurements of the ring to get a relative size. It does weigh in at 40.8 Grams. It is quite heavy. I also asked to give a guesstimate on the metal make-up of the ring. I will guess pewter. I asked him to clean it up a bit and look for a blueish tint.

Nibiru
10-27-2011, 05:13 PM
It's interesting that more than one of these has been found. Has anyone worn the ring for any period of time? Any effects noted??

I have no idea of its use, but I'd be careful wearing it before being certain of its purpose..

timmay13
10-27-2011, 05:41 PM
I'm not sure who wore it before my friend retrieved it from the ground while metal detecting. My friend has not worn it since he recovered it last week. He has recovered 50 rings this season and this is by far the most interesting. I wish I had the ring in hand to be able to answer questions a bit easier. The area he recovered it...if I remember correctly...has history that dates back to the early 19th century. The ring does not have any date or hallmarks that would help with placing it to a certain time frame. I wish there were some kind of marking with info of who is depicted on the ring.

timmay13
10-27-2011, 06:04 PM
Thank you for the posts. I believe the owner has no real intention of wearing the ring. He is more of a collector of lost items. Thank you for the warnings though.

Ok...I received measurements for the ring.

Weight: 40.8 Grams (1.44 oz)
Height: 30mm (1.18")
Diameter: 30mm (1.18")
Non Magnetic
Ring Size: 10 3/4

Ghislain
10-27-2011, 11:51 PM
'Tisn't Leary... http://covers.openlibrary.org/w/id/794602-M.jpg

Albion, in your pic Leary is smiling ;)

What if he wasn't :confused:

Ghislain

Albion
10-28-2011, 02:14 AM
Albion, in your pic Leary is smiling ;)

What if he wasn't :confused:

Ghislain



Interruption.......http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/history/c15.jpg

Incarceration.....http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWfq1yyh8SLwnNJYSBnNJv099c5lMLs WoIEqK1R91i6jIkNubUJg

Indigestion........http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ztPqNRBZrZo/TcWt5ogwpZI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/_Xmmax9zkjI/s400/Timothy-Leary-Los-Angeles-1989.jpg

_____________________________________

I've no intention of lionizing Leary - but positive human potential and individual sovereignty were two of his ongoing central themes. As such, he would not have commissioned (or inspired) a cult-ring to begin with, nor would he have allowed himself to be marketed/represented with so sinister a scowl.

timmay13
10-31-2011, 01:44 AM
Here is what a member from another forum has said the symbols on the ring mean.

I hope you enjoy reading it as much as I have.

Thank you to all for your comments here as well. Much appreciated.

"So Here is the final analysis. Below is a diagram I’ve put together and numbered each of the symbols. This way I can just refer to the number instead of trying to describe the symbol. Yes, I know the symbols are messy. Yes, I also know my diagram is crooked. And yes, I know I put a ‘me gusta’ face with a squirrel on it in place of the persons. But now, Down to business.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab146/Newtfinn/alchemicalringanalysis-1.jpg

The Band diagram:

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab146/Newtfinn/alch2.jpg

Recipe

First analysis is assuming the reagents and symbols are for a recipe. Here they are, assuming the order of the symbols starts from the temple of the figures head. The direct center is in between the two red ‘arrowed’ symbols where a red star is indicated.

1) Balsamic Vinegar (liquid) CH3COOH
2) Menstruum (liquid) Solvent
3) Arsenic (applied to fire? Unsure.) As
4) Salt (aqueous) NaCl + H2O
5) Sal Armoniac (Solid/dust) NH4Cl
6) Lead (Molten) Pb
7) Sorrel (European plant)
8) Lead (solid) Pb
9) Zinc (aqueous) Zn + H2O
10) Mercury (burnt remains of) Hg
11) Sulfur (gaseous) S2
12) Iron (solid) Fe
13) Menstruum (liquid) solvent
14) Air (assumed reaction with CO2)
15) Tin (Liquid) Sn
16) Brimstone (essentially powdered or solid Sulfur) S2

Ok, so looking at this, it’s very hard to tell what is a reactant and a product. I would assume it is an order of what should be added to produce an unsaid product, but again, there is not enough information to be sure. At best this would be a list of ingredients, leaving the product as well as essential process left unsaid. For this reason, I doubt it’s a recipe, but here it is anyway. Another thing to consider is the band, as in where it fits into the formula. It could indicate that it is both a precursor or closer, but this would be far more likely if it is in the form of a spell, not a recipe. Either way, here’s the alignment of the band:

1) Sorrel (European Plant)
2) Brimstone (powder or solid) S2
3) Salt (aqueous) NaCl + H2O

No having looked over the ‘recipe’ on the band, it doesn’t look like any audible solution. Likely hood would have it that if this portion is indeed a recipe, it is for incense or a sachet. Nothing I would use though, the fumes from that would be highly hallucinatory.

Symbolism

In checking out the symbolism of the various parts, we should be able to distinguish a purpose for the ring. I’ll list the various symbolisms, and then how they fit together at the end. Starting, of course, with the face of the ring.

1) Refinement, change.
2) Balance, duality, parts of a whole.
3) Masculinity, Potency.
4) Preservation, blessing.
5) Congealing, flexability.
6) Darkness, Prime, base.
7) Parental affection.
8) Darkness, Prime, base.
9) Migration, Joining.
10) Teaching, Creation.
11) Multiplicity, aspiration.
12) Strength, Masculinity.
13) Consumption, Dispersing.
14) Expose, become visible.
15) Life, Group instinct.
16) Greater Wrath, Hell.

What it could mean:

Putting it all together makes it read something like:

To obtain change [refinement] you must balance the parts of the whole. Defend your honor, but remain open to the power of the Darkness [perhaps a deity, the group]. This darkness [deity of darkness] will join, teaching the mass of it’s strength, becoming a part of you, and becoming a [visible] part of [the groups] life, to life’s [world’s] end.

Looking at it, it definitely resorts to the same ‘group’ philosophy seen before. It’s definitely an artifact of a group or cult, explaining the multiple rings, and the man on the center is either the high priest, or is believed to be of the ‘deity’ mentioned earlier. I don’t understand cult logic too well, but either way, the man was persuasive.

Symbolism: Part 2

Now I’m gonna look at the sides of the ring. It would seem it would be a beginning and ending phrase, and the way it is symmetrical around the face, indicates that it is more likely a blessing, as would the recipe implement of incense indicate.

1) Parental Affection.
2) Greater wrath, Hell.
3) Preservation, Blessing.

Not too many ways to look at that.

What it could mean:

Putting that together makes it read something like:

The father [of darkness] gives his greater wrath [blessing] to preserve you.

Interesting. But yea, definitely a cult path, probably satanic or intentionally dark. Fitting anyway, because the ring itself looks creepy. Looking at the general other features and the circular nature it could ensue a completion of a ritual or circle, and the rope’d design is a bit more to show the tight-knit aspects of the group.

As an Incantation:

As an incantation, it would be traditionally recited to bring about an effect sealed within the ring. In retrospect of what I have already said, if it is an incantation it is an activation to a dark blessing. If chosen to be spoken, it should be said in three parts like the inscriptions on the ring. Presumably, the ring would also be worn when activating.

1) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
2) Abyssus (Ab-yiss-us)
3) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)

Part 2:

1) Vinyard (Veen-Yard) lol, pretty much English
2) Acctum (ak-toom)
3) Arsenicum (Ar-sen-E-coom)
4) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)
5) Solvo (Saul-voe)
6) Caliga (Ca-lee-gah)
7) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
8) Caliga (Ca-lee-gah)
9) Nix Alba (obvious)
10) Calx (obvious)
11) Inciter (Een-cite-aer)
12) Ferrum (obvious)
13) Acctum (ak-toom)
14) Aer (air)
15) Stannum (obvious)
16) Abyssus (ab-yiss-us)

Part 3:

1) Virdesrile (Vir-des-real-ae)
2) Abyssus (Ab-yiss-us)
3) Reservo (Res-aer-voe)

Please, I would advise not testing the incantation. I know I have listed it, but that is only because I went on a research rampage. In turn, I hope this helps with what you’re trying to find.

Conclusion:

In list form, here’s what we know for sure:

-It belonged to a cult, small or large.
-Man on the front is a leader or precieved diety.
-The cult is of an obvious dark nature.
-It would seem the basis of said cult is to almost not be destroyed in an apocalyptic type event to serve a greater ‘evil’ or darkness. As is , I won’t jump to assumptions as to the origin of the diety.
-The ring itself is to bind the wearer to the ‘leader’ so if by the small chance it is not enchanted, it would act only as a symbol of alligence.
-If it is enchanted it is to protect from an ‘end of days’ event as well as open the wearer to perceived ‘dark’ teachings.

This is quite common of cults, to be based around a single event or idea, rather than a coven, which would conduct only general magic, ritual, ect.

Hope this helped. Oh, and as to that ‘number’ question you had. It can have an impact, but only in the way the perceived incantation or symbolism is put together or read.

Hope this helped! If you have any questions let me know, I’ll do my best to answer!"

Ghislain
10-31-2011, 07:40 AM
http://genius.toucansurf.com/ian%20mcdiarmid.jpg

I am not good with symbolism so I will leave that to the experts here, but a picture on a ring seems
unusual. I have not come across this before.

Could the picture be Ian McDiarmid who plays Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars?

At first the comparison was just half hearted fun...but having looked at it one has to wonder
could it be some Star Wars cult thing? There is some resemblance.

Below is a picture of a Sterling Silver ring of 'Darth Maul' 150 (http://www.laurelleantiquejewellery.co.uk/products/Silver-Darth-Maul-Star-Wars-Ring.html)

http://www.laurelleantiquejewellery.co.uk/product_images/u/177/3__71237_std.jpg

Some people do take their fantasies to the extreme.

timmay13 how is the picture applied to the ring...is it a picture under a cover of some sort
or is it enamelled?

Have you verified what metal it is yet?

Feel the force!

:)

Ghislain

timmay13
10-31-2011, 08:18 PM
timmay13 how is the picture applied to the ring...is it a picture under a cover of some sort
or is it enamelled?

Hmm...that is a good question. Let me message my friend who has the ring in hand and ask him how the face is applied to the ring. I will get back to you as soon as he replies to me.

timmay13
10-31-2011, 08:27 PM
I was just looking at the close-up pics I have posted of the symbols. In some of them you can see the edge of the face in different pics. It looks very strange to me. Seems to be very flat to the surface of the ring. Almost like it is a piece of fabric or paper that had been applied and then clear coat over it. There does not seem to be any definition to the face what so ever.

As for your other question...he has yet to identify the metal. It is quite heavy weighing in at 40.8 grams for a ring size of 10 3/4. The diameter of the ring is aprox 1.18" which is the same as the height at 1.18". It did not sound of as iron or lead with the metal detector but in the silver, copper range with a fluctuation back and forth with aluminum & tin.

MarkostheGnostic
11-02-2011, 04:21 AM
Hello everyone.

I'm new to this forum and new to alchemy in general. I thought I would share with you what has intrigued me in to doing a bit of research into alchemy. If anyone has any input on the item I would greatly appreciate any assistance with identifying it. A friend of mine found this ring while metal detecting in southern Ontario Canada. I believe I recognize the symbol for Wheel, Tin/Jupiter and Sulfur. I have no idea who is depicted on the ring or what most of the other symbols represent. I think it might also dwell in to the occult a bit. As you can see by the other rings behind the item...it is quite large. Again...any help is greatly appreciated.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/Zooms%20Ring/ZoomsRingFAce.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/mrsg1313/Zooms%20Ring/ZoomsRingSide.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/120h0s1.gif Does this guy match?

timmay13
11-02-2011, 07:18 AM
I will do a web search for other pics of the gentleman in the last post and see if I can come close to matching. Someone on a different forum said it was Anton Levey but I do not believe it is. At least not from any of the pictures I could find for him on the web. Considering who Anton Levey was I would think that any symbols that would have to do with that particular individual would be easily identifiable.

I talked with the owner of the ring and they say that when they look at the face on the ring it appears to be a silk screen on fabric that was applied to the ring and the a clear coat over the top of the face of the ring. With that being said...I would not think that it was created by a jeweler. Maybe the ring itself was made with a blank faceplate and then sold as such to allow others to apply whatever they wanted to it to make it personalized...so to speak.

I think I will have to do some more research in to magicians and illusionist that had a traveling show. Many of them claimed they were granted their powers through many mystical ways and maybe this ring is a marketing tool for their show. I guess it is as good a place as any to continue some research.

MarkostheGnostic
11-02-2011, 11:11 AM
I will do a web search for other pics of the gentleman in the last post and see if I can come close to matching. Someone on a different forum said it was Anton Levey but I do not believe it is. At least not from any of the pictures I could find for him on the web. Considering who Anton Levey was I would think that any symbols that would have to do with that particular individual would be easily identifiable.

I talked with the owner of the ring and they say that when they look at the face on the ring it appears to be a silk screen on fabric that was applied to the ring and the a clear coat over the top of the face of the ring. With that being said...I would not think that it was created by a jeweler. Maybe the ring itself was made with a blank faceplate and then sold as such to allow others to apply whatever they wanted to it to make it personalized...so to speak.

I think I will have to do some more research in to magicians and illusionist that had a traveling show. Many of them claimed they were granted their powers through many mystical ways and maybe this ring is a marketing tool for their show. I guess it is as good a place as any to continue some research.

It is clearly NOT Anton Szandor LaVey. On a hunch, I looked up Samael Aun Weor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael_Aun_Weor If it IS Weor, I've always gotten sinister vibes from. The name Samael doesn't exactly help, Aun is a form of On, or Om (I read in Masonic stuff, but here 'sex.'), and Weor, is ve-Aur from the Hebrew 'Aur,' light. http://www.samaelaunweor.info/identity/the-name-samael-aun-weor

Ghislain
11-02-2011, 12:21 PM
MarkostheGnostic

What made you look at Samael Aun Weor?

What sinister vibes do you get?

The reason I ask is that I have been reading up on Gnosticism (http://gnosticteachings.org/home.html) and the particular group
I have been reading base their teachings on his.

He has written books on Kabbalah, Alchemy and many other esoteric subjects (http://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor.html)

I am not recommending anyone buy any of the books in the link above. It is just there to
show the plethora of subjects Samael Aun Weor covered.

I too got mixed messages from him...no reason to explain this hence the interest in your statement.

Ghislain