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Ghislain
10-28-2011, 12:12 AM
I am not sure where I read it, but I'm sure it said that today (28/10/2011) is supposed to be the beginning of whatever is to
culminate on 21st December 2012.

Can anyone verify that?

I shall keep an eye out.

http://www.art-dept.com/artists/rankin/portfolio/specialprojects/images/Eye%20Scapes%20-%2001.jpg

Ghislain

3+O(
10-28-2011, 02:39 PM
The supposed significance of the date 10-28-2011 is due to Carl Johan Calleman and hasn't much to do with the traditional Mayan calendar, it is derived from his own theory of 'spiritual waves' which is I'm sorry to say, mostly made up out of whole cloth.

See John Major Jenkins' book 'The 2012 Story' for the details.

III
10-29-2011, 12:39 AM
I am not sure where I read it, but I'm sure it said that today (28/10/2011) is supposed to be the beginning of whatever is to
culminate on 21st December 2012.

Can anyone verify that?

I shall keep an eye out.

http://www.art-dept.com/artists/rankin/portfolio/specialprojects/images/Eye%20Scapes%20-%2001.jpg

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain,

I will give you something to keep an eye out for. Dec 21, 2012 is my 65th birthday, just minutes before midnight CST on the 21st. I know NOTHING, I say NOTHING, about today being anything in relation to that.

Further according to the Mayan metaphysics from a book written by an academic I read a few years ago, it is the beginning of the AGE OF TRUE MAN, lasting 143 nonillion years (143,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). It was a very interesting book and the metaphysics was quite familiar when stripped of a lot of the popular speculative gobbledygook that always seems to seep in.

143 nonillion years is a LONG LONG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. The question arises then HOW can it be for so long? Why is it that long? What does it REALLY mean, if anything, after all the nonsense is elliminated? Remember almost everything said in speculation about it is bound to be wrong. There is of course the possibility that whatever does happen, if anything at all, may make no noticable to human difference. Or maybe ... Well I could speculate based on some visionary experiences but perhaps that wouldn't be a good idea as nothing else I have seen in speculation on this even begins to approach in any way what I saw. And anyway, there was no timeline attached to what I saw and I have no way to tie it into any specific time. So who knows. In any case it is my real honest to goodness 65th birthday. So let's celebrate with a toast of Grand Marnier at 11:57 pm CST on Dec 21st, 2012. BE IN LOVE.

That can't be your eye, it belongs to Roy G Biv.

Ghislain
10-29-2011, 05:24 AM
Toasting with Grand Marnier...I like your style III :)

I didn't see anything that particularly stood out yesterday...however there is so much going on that perhaps I can't see the
wood for the trees...

I will wish you an early Happy Birthday now just in case it slips my mind...as a lot of things seem to do these days ;)

Ghislain

P.S. That eye may have belonged to Roy G Biv, but it's mine now :)

Ghislain
10-29-2011, 12:14 PM
The supposed significance of the date 10-28-2011 is due to Carl Johan Calleman and hasn't much to do with the traditional Mayan calendar,
it is derived from his own theory of 'spiritual waves' which is I'm sorry to say, mostly made up out of whole cloth.

See John Major Jenkins' book 'The 2012 Story' for the details.


3+O(, What does, "mostly made up out of whole cloth", mean. and why are you sorry to say it?

I read a Wiki entry on Carl Johan Calleman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Johan_Calleman) and found it quite agreeable with my beliefs.

According to Calleman his dates for the 9th wave began on 8 March 2011 and completed along with all the others on 28 October 2011 and will bring about the full
realisation of conciousness at its highest level which he terms "Unity conciousness".

I have to say I don't feel any more concious today than I did yesterday, but the 8th March struck a chord with me for on 12th March I attended a gathering of people,
all unknown to me except one, and took part in a four day ceremony. What I got from that experience very much fits with what Calleman has proposed.




143 nonillion years is a LONG LONG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Is it a long time or just a blink of an eye? Time is a relative thing, dont you think?

Ghislain

III
10-29-2011, 07:42 PM
3+O(, What does, "mostly made up out of whole cloth", mean. and why are you sorry to say it?

I read a Wiki entry on Carl Johan Calleman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Johan_Calleman) and found it quite agreeable with my beliefs.

According to Calleman his dates for the 9th wave began on 8 March 2011 and completed along with all the others on 28 October 2011 and will bring about the full
realisation of conciousness at its highest level which he terms "Unity conciousness".

I have to say I don't feel any more concious today than I did yesterday, but the 8th March struck a chord with me for on 12th March I attended a gathering of people,
all unknown to me except one, and took part in a four day ceremony. What I got from that experience very much fits with what Calleman has proposed.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by IIIhttp://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?p=16990#post16990)

143 nonillion years is a LONG LONG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.




Is it a long time or just a blink of an eye? Time is a relative thing, dont you think?

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain,




http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by IIIhttp://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?p=16990#post16990)

143 nonillion years is a LONG LONG LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.




Is it a long time or just a blink of an eye? Time is a relative thing, dont you think?


It is BOTH a long time and a blink of an eye. Therein lies the secret of "Eternal Life" and even of ordinary life itself. And then there is the nesting of eternities, which can be perceived as "speed of light" barriers. As one approaches the speed of light time dilation might be said to occur as described in Einstein's relativity equations when solved for Time.

In reading the Mayan metaphysics I had the experiences of going where the cycles of the Mayan calender could be counted in the underlying metaphysical structures. The structures they used were contained within larger yet structures. So the perceived duration of these structures could be counted without actually experiencing them.

MarkostheGnostic
10-29-2011, 08:37 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googolplex

There is Unity - ONE - theoretically Eternal and Infinite, and there is numerical multiplicity, theoretically Infinite in its multiplicity, and it would seem Eternal in its procession from ONE. Multiplicity means extension, which means dimensionality both spatial and temporal. A Googleplex of tiny numbers, even atom-sized, written linearly, would exceed the diameter of the known universe. Compressed, a Googleplex would exceed the number of hydrogen atoms in the known universe (according to Wiki). Maybe numerical sequencing really IS only theoretically Infinite. It is certainly bounded by spacial considerations in one given universe. Only an Eternal Being could 'contain' an Infinite and Eternal process. Perhaps at some point, number as a Pure Idea or archetype of Reality, ceases to be a Reality. Perhaps that point is where Being re-enters Non-Being, Byss and Abyss, as Jacob Boehme put it; the point where the NeoPlatonic Nous first emerges from the ONE, where Logos emerges from the Father (in Christian terms), where any Idea of multiplicity simply ceases in pure Unity. Number, then, would not be Infinite or equivalent in any way to Infinity-Eternity.

Ghislain
10-29-2011, 11:19 PM
As a child I asked, “where does the universe end; even if at a brick wall then what was beyond the
brick wall?” Is it a bubble floating in infinity or infinity+1? Is it circular returning to its own
beginning? Could infinity+1 actually be 1?

Is numeracy the fabrication of mans inability to accept one? :) e.g. the creation of two tending to infinity or half tending to zero.

Is the mind actually capable of comprehending infinity or even nothing for
that matter? Do we just pretend to comprehend?

With regards to the Universe...I know it and sense it, or at least some of it... I see the stars, I smell
the roses, I feel the rain, I hear the wind in the trees and taste the honey from the bees. I guess
there is more; is there?

I believe that the “I” that I am is eternal...however is that as an entity I call “me” or as energy with
possibility and maybe the “I” is just a happenstance along the “infinite” path of possibilities?
Perhaps one day I will be the monkey bashing the typewriter knocking out the complete works of
Shakespeare just by chance; until then it’s the “I” that I shall remember right up to the 21st of December :)

Then “Who” knows?

and...did Horton really hear a Who?

Do I have any more answers than I did as a child?

The real fun is in the not knowing...isn’t ignorance bliss!

http://forum.allergyuk.org/images/avatars/gallery/smilies/fi_av_smiles_y_41.gif

Ghislain

III
10-30-2011, 06:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googolplex

There is Unity - ONE - theoretically Eternal and Infinite, and there is numerical multiplicity, theoretically Infinite in its multiplicity, and it would seem Eternal in its procession from ONE. Multiplicity means extension, which means dimensionality both spatial and temporal. A Googleplex of tiny numbers, even atom-sized, written linearly, would exceed the diameter of the known universe. Compressed, a Googleplex would exceed the number of hydrogen atoms in the known universe (according to Wiki). Maybe numerical sequencing really IS only theoretically Infinite. It is certainly bounded by spacial considerations in one given universe. Only an Eternal Being could 'contain' an Infinite and Eternal process. Perhaps at some point, number as a Pure Idea or archetype of Reality, ceases to be a Reality. Perhaps that point is where Being re-enters Non-Being, Byss and Abyss, as Jacob Boehme put it; the point where the NeoPlatonic Nous first emerges from the ONE, where Logos emerges from the Father (in Christian terms), where any Idea of multiplicity simply ceases in pure Unity. Number, then, would not be Infinite or equivalent in any way to Infinity-Eternity.

Hi MarkostheGnostic,

Let's deal with some small numbers so that we don't get wowed by the number of virtual hydrogen atoms in our virtual holodeck creation in which we live. Lets consider a very small number, say the 2 megapixels of an HD screen. Each pixel is encoded with a 24 bit color which is 16,000,000 approximately different colors. So the number of different images possible is 16,000,000^2,000,000. That would be all the possible pixel-color combinations including position encoding. That would include all posible pictures, texts, etc. So now, lets stack it into a fractal so that each 2mpix picture becomes a pixel on the next level of 2 mpix views and that one becomes a pixel in the next level up 2mpix frame. Now stack that 2,000,000 deep just for round numbers sake. The numbers are getting larger. Then within this construct realize that each of these 2mpix images is the FILTER template through which we see the "life", the same life put through 100 gazillion filters will look like 100 gazillion different lives.


So if the 143 nonillion years is the possible years of lifetime experience within the AGE OF TRUE MAN that might suggest that there are then 100 gazillion different filters to look at it through, and each filter is changed by using it so the viewing changes endlessly.

In any case the viewing can go on idenfinitely until a being gets tired of it. I mean really, how many lives can be lived until they get tiresome? Consider that there are those that consider that there is only one "ideal" life for a being . So is it heaven or hell to live that same identical life 1000,000,000,000,000,...


Perhaps that point is where Being re-enters Non-Being, Byss and Abyss, as Jacob Boehme put it; the point where the NeoPlatonic Nous first emerges from the ONE, where Logos emerges from the Father (in Christian terms), where any Idea of multiplicity simply ceases in pure Unity. Number, then, would not be Infinite or equivalent in any way to Infinity-Eternity

Perhaps I had better define my terms again. "Eternity" is a chamber. In this chamber all the "frames" (each a single instant) can be seen with "time" perceived as a linear dimension, as a sucession of frames. In the "eternal" moment, and there is only that one moment, consciousness does a kind of time sharing. At perceptual levels below unity there can be the illusion of time as one moves through the frames. So this whole thing can be stacked. It appears quite possible for our whole perceived universe/creation to be comtained within a time sliced frame. Between the "PLACE" I am sitting writing this and eternity is what might be perceived as a speed of ligh barrier. Between that obervational chamber and the one that contains it is another speed of light barrier. It's like one photon becoming unpacked into an entire universe when seen standing still.

EJ Gold wrote a poem contained in Life in the Labrynth called AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Very interesting. Very illumiating.

All these things are just ways to look at what we have here. They don't determine what we have here. Some ways of looking at things are more useful than others. Some ways of looking allow the seeing of more details at various levels.

So "eternal" life might be seen as being alive and aware of ongoing "life" even if separated by some moments of death. It's Bill Murray in GROUNDHOG DAY all over again. When one sees the chaos as organized energy/information it ceases being chaos.

"Eternal" life is one of the traditional things that Alchemy is played for. Perhaps the illusion of Eternal life is more like it. At a trial in backwoods Maine a few years back Old Man Johnson was on the witness stand. He was in his 90s and looked like he didn;'t have too much mileage left. The prosecutor addressed him "So Mr. Johnson, youv'e lived your whole life in Greenville?" To which Johnson answered "Not yet I ain't".

Being aware of Eternity and being able to slip in and out of the time stream and remember ones experiences is kind of a working definition of "Eternal life". Once one has presence in Eternity one always did and always will have presence in Eternity. It doesn't go away. It just gets added to each time ones consciousness is in Eternity again. Time linked language and logic doesn't do justice to the experience of Eternity. However, as we humans have only a small window as our view we can only see a little piece of Eternity at a time. Moving our viewpoint around gives us the illusion of something happening. In Unity nothing ever happens or has ever happened

Albion
11-01-2011, 06:04 PM
Is the mind actually capable of comprehending infinity or even nothing for
that matter? Do we just pretend to comprehend?

Bloody good questions, Ghislain.

I don’t know why, but for some reason I’m reminded of the following Buddhist gem on the logic of the primary paradox [quadradox?], to whit:

Everything…

- is,

- and is not,

- both is and is not,

- and neither is nor is not.

I don’t believe the conscious mind can truly comprehend either infinity or nothing, as such. But if “it” is willing to consider them as being, important factors or categories - they can, as such, be useful in helping to clear the field of consciousness and coax it to “let go” of its attachments and identifications with form and phenomena.

But, taking these terms relatively and figuratively, I believe a sense of unboundedness and no-thing-ed-ness can be intuited and perceived by the superconscious mind - concomitant with conscious perception of (an) apparent manifest reality. Like being aware of both figure and ground simultaneously…


The explicable requires the inexplicable. Experience requires the nonexperienceable. The obvious requires the mystical. -Buckminster Fuller [ http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller ]

…the “infinity” in question being neither a numerical type of infinity (which, IMO, is an imaginary construct*) nor some literal unending extension of space-time, and the “nothing” being not a literal nothing - as there cannot be such a “thing” as nothing. Probably best not taken too literally or seriously in and of themselves, or as structural elements of some merely mental concatenation.
____________________________________________

* Oh, I just read the fine post by III on this above: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2449-2012&p=17008#post17008
____________________________________________

NB: This post was composed as a sort of writing/premise-examining exercise [with admittedly somewhat stilted results]. I don’t presume to be offering anything here that others haven’t said far more eloquently - and from greater experiential vantage points. I sincerely enjoyed your questions, though.

Andro
11-01-2011, 06:17 PM
there cannot be such a “thing” as nothing.

And still, not to contradict, but rather to complement the above:

There 'is' only NOTHING...

0=1
_____________________________________

Q: How do you name the UN-Nameable?

A: You give it a name.
_____________________________________

And a Zen saying:

"There is no Answer
There never was an Answer
There will never be an Answer
This is the Answer"

Also:

One is None and None is One
Two is Three and Tree is One
One and Two and Three and Four
Equal One n'Evermore.

Albion
11-01-2011, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=Androgynus;17048]

There 'is' only NOTHING...

0=1














Thanks for Nothing, Androgynus. :)

You’ve brought this consideration into play on a number of occasions on AlchemyForums and, in each instance, I've found it to be both fascinating and instructive. They say one may gradually acquire a distinct predilection for Nothing - when doses which contain progressively fewer adulterating qualifiers are administered at a rate just beyond the threshold of tolerance, i.e., that amount of Nothing which the conscious mind can comfortably metabolize. Then again, sometimes a little therapeutic devestation is just what the Doctor ordered.

Nibiru
11-01-2011, 07:23 PM
There 'is' only NOTHING...

0=1 (0=1, 1=0) In this simple equation is revealed a great Truth!

"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE ALL is in All. To him who truly understands this hath come great knowledge."

The Kybalion


"THE ALL" could just as easily be exchanged with "NOTHING", in my opinion..

Albion
11-01-2011, 07:47 PM
(0=1, 1=0) In this simple equation is revealed a great Truth!

"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE ALL is in All. To him who truly understands this hath come great knowledge."

The Kybalion


Which is why there is no inherent conflict between (supposed) Something and (supposed) Nothing. And why it's pointless to (attempt to) invalidate existence, as such.

Andro
11-01-2011, 09:09 PM
And why it's pointless to (attempt to) invalidate existence, as such.

Just as pointless as attempting to 'validate' it :)

3+O(
11-01-2011, 09:36 PM
3+O(, What does, "mostly made up out of whole cloth", mean. and why are you sorry to say it?

I read a Wiki entry on Carl Johan Calleman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Johan_Calleman) and found it quite agreeable with my beliefs.

According to Calleman his dates for the 9th wave began on 8 March 2011 and completed along with all the others on 28 October 2011 and will bring about the full
realisation of conciousness at its highest level which he terms "Unity conciousness".

I have to say I don't feel any more concious today than I did yesterday, but the 8th March struck a chord with me for on 12th March I attended a gathering of people,
all unknown to me except one, and took part in a four day ceremony. What I got from that experience very much fits with what Calleman has proposed.

Ghislain

Check out this debate between Jenkins and Calleman, I don't see how anyone can come away without thinking Calleman is a crank:
http://alignment2012.com/debate2001.html

It would be surprising to say the least if Calleman turned out to understand the Mayans' calendar better than they themselves did, as his system, such as it is, has little to do with theirs.

Awani
11-02-2011, 01:51 AM
If there was a hypothetical 10th wave, and one were to follow Calleman's formula (where each progressive wave of consciousness happens 20X faster than the one preceding), the 10th wave would transpire precisely over a thirteen day period beginning October 29 and ending November 10, 2011. Similarly, if there was a hypothetical 11th wave, it would transpire precisely on 11-11-11! Taking that same extrapolation further, all subsequent waves (12 to infinity) would also occur on 11-11-11! In other words, in conjunction with Calleman's formula, from a purely mathematical standpoint, 11-11-11 lines up to be a truly significant and historic date. That said, I must confess that I shared this information with Dr. Calleman in an email last night, and this was his response:

"This is something that has been suggested by many people. On my own part I believe the Mayan calendar ends on October 28, 2011, but 11:11:11 may be the day when people actually get to celebrate it since after all the interest in this is much greater than in the Mayan calendar. The two dates go hand in hand but are not logically connected I would say." - source (http://www.thelifeintended.com/2011/10/what-if-carl-callemans-mayan-calendar.html)

What about the above? Next friday.

:cool:

Seth-Ra
11-02-2011, 02:47 AM
Isnt there a movie coming out on 11.11.11 called "Immortals"? Talk about wyred. ;)



~Seth-Ra

Ghislain
11-02-2011, 08:08 AM
3+O(

You said;


Check out this debate between Jenkins and Calleman, I don't see how anyone
can come away without thinking Calleman is a crank:
http://alignment2012.com/debate2001.html

It would be surprising to say the least if Calleman turned out to understand the Mayans' calendar
better than they themselves did, as his system, such as it is, has little to do with theirs.

I can only answer that request with the answer I gave Albion in another thread.




Albion

Thank you for your reply and the many links...I did look at them but for two reasons did not
complete them.

1. I am a slow reader it would take me forever to get through the text, let alone try to understand it,
however some of what I read I really connected to.

2. I have a very busy schedule and would have to let something else lapse to give it the time it
deserved.

I like to feel rather than learn. Does that make sense? Learning from others may incorporate a third
party agenda whereas ”feeling” comes from the horse's mouth so to speak.


Reading that back to myself it sounds like a cop out, but it does have a smidgen of truth in it. I love
to read but I fall asleep doing so. :(

I would be grateful if you could pinpoint or summarise, in layman’s terms, the points you think make
Calleman’s theories unbelievable or incorrect.

To summarise your post you said, “I don't see how anyone can come away without thinking
Calleman is a crank”.

If outsiders read some of the entries we post here what do you think they might come away with?

III



Lets consider a very small number, say the 2 megapixels of an HD screen. Each pixel is encoded with a 24 bit
color which is 16,000,000 approximately different colors. So the number of different images possible is
16,000,000^2,000,000. That would be all the possible pixel-color combinations including position encoding.
That would include all posible pictures, texts, etc. So now, lets stack it into a fractal so that each 2mpix picture
becomes a pixel on the next level of 2 mpix views and that one becomes a pixel in the next level up 2mpix
frame. Now stack that 2,000,000 deep just for round numbers sake. The numbers are getting larger. Then
within this construct realize that each of these 2mpix images is the FILTER template through which we see the
"life", the same life put through 100 gazillion filters will look like 100 gazillion different lives....

I can only liken this to a prism...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqTfB2A_WaEPZZwjIQ6uzz7ay-GetQtPaGu126-Set2ES0yjtPNg

You can take the millions of colours you mention above and find them somewhere in the analogous
spectrum of colours emitting from the prism but in reverse it is all one...white.



However, as we humans have only a small window as our view we can only see a little piece of
Eternity at a time. Moving our viewpoint around gives us the illusion of something happening. In
Unity nothing ever happens or has ever happened.
Perhaps you have put your finger on the reason for life...it is so things can happen or appear to be
happening. :)

When one looks at a prism which side of it do we deem to be the real view?

Now if one looks again at Albion’s “quadradox”...



Everything…

- is,

- and is not,

- both is and is not,

- and neither is nor is not.



...then the Buddhist gem on the logic of the primary paradox doesn’t seem so paradoxical at all.

This is repeated somewhat in Androgynus’ post...



One is None and None is One
Two is Three and Tree is One
One and Two and Three and Four
Equal One n'Evermore.

Could it be that “infinity” and “nothing” are both glitches in a system that were overlooked or
that were hoped not to be seen, as to be rid of them would take hours of programming :)

I can hear the creator saying, “shit, no one will notice”. :)

Ghislain

P.S. Dev I'm really excited now!

and Seth Immortals (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=10&gs_id=s&xhr=t&q=immortals+trailer&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=immortals+&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=2af6a4d44ef959ba&biw=1920&bih=892) looks good. :)

III
11-02-2011, 07:26 PM
3+O(

You said;


I can only answer that request with the answer I gave Albion in another thread.


Reading that back to myself it sounds like a cop out, but it does have a smidgen of truth in it. I love
to read but I fall asleep doing so. :(

I would be grateful if you could pinpoint or summarise, in layman’s terms, the points you think make
Calleman’s theories unbelievable or incorrect.

To summarise your post you said, “I don't see how anyone can come away without thinking
Calleman is a crank”.

If outsiders read some of the entries we post here what do you think they might come away with?

III



I can only liken this to a prism...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqTfB2A_WaEPZZwjIQ6uzz7ay-GetQtPaGu126-Set2ES0yjtPNg

You can take the millions of colours you mention above and find them somewhere in the analogous
spectrum of colours emitting from the prism but in reverse it is all one...white.


Perhaps you have put your finger on the reason for life...it is so things can happen or appear to be
happening. :)

When one looks at a prism which side of it do we deem to be the real view?

Now if one looks again at Albion’s “quadradox”...




...then the Buddhist gem on the logic of the primary paradox doesn’t seem so paradoxical at all.

This is repeated somewhat in Androgynus’ post...



Could it be that “infinity” and “nothing” are both glitches in a system that were overlooked or
that were hoped not to be seen, as to be rid of them would take hours of programming :)

I can hear the creator saying, “shit, no one will notice”. :)

Ghislain

P.S. Dev I'm really excited now!

and Seth Immortals (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=10&gs_id=s&xhr=t&q=immortals+trailer&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=immortals+&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=f&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=2af6a4d44ef959ba&biw=1920&bih=892) looks good. :)

Hi Ghislain,

So here we are inside a virtual holodeck seeing the projected imagery through a template that can constantly vary. And yet we have some degree of influence on what we think we see. Consider that perhaps it might be more fairly represented as +1-1=0. As the tree of consciousness can be seen as a binary branching tree descending from the root node there is a usefullness to the form. It quite naturally comes up with binary thinking; yin/yang, male/female, god/goddess, for/against, -1/+1, nothing/everything, matter/antimatter, positive/negative, etc. Consider that since everything adds up to zero, to nothing, each creation of something also creates it's exact opposite. Everything stays balanced. So there has to be a dividing of "charges" in order to have a current flow to bring it back to zero. We each carry a full copy of the fractal within us and we are each contained in the full fractal, over and over and over.

Perhaps you have put your finger on the reason for life...it is so things can happen or appear to be
happening

I am part of the school of thought that the Absolute can and does in fact evolve at the same time as being a non-dualist. In a very "uncertainty principle" way, as far as I can see, change in the COS (Cosmic Operating System) can't occur if it is being observed. The speed of light barriers could be considered a firewall in that appliction, protecting the areas that generate change from observation thereby allowing such change to occur. As soon as it is uploaded past the firewall the change occurs. Once something changes in that realm it has "always been that" so no change is ever observed as change.

Could it be that “infinity” and “nothing” are both glitches in a system that were overlooked or that were hoped not to be seen, as to be rid of them would take hours of programming

Ah-ha! The singularity pointed out in THE MATRIX. Remember where Neo is told that the singularity, him, is the sum of all the little odds and ends left over, cumulative round-off error so to speak, all collected and accounted for.

One might speak of the "unmanifest" rather than "nothing". What does infinite unrealized potentiality look like? Conscious awareness and UNDERSTANDING makes it real. Without that understanding it is all just "noise".

The COS just sort of grew out of the pimordial consciousness with no understadning slowly becoming understanding. It was not the result of any plan, grand or otherwise. Many more layers of trial and error "programming" accumulated on top of that not so solid base. A complete reconceptualization could improve it but also be very dangerous as mistakes can be made and there is no going back per se. Things are much simpler if one doesn't have to deal with the extremes.

Ghislain
11-03-2011, 11:40 AM
Things are much simpler if one doesn't have to deal with the extremes.

Such as divide by zero in mathematics. Everything is fine -> 0 but at that zero extreme it all goes pear shaped.
As it tends to zero, no matter how tiny, 10^-10000000000000000000000000000000000000, dividing by this is
fine but should you hit that magic 0...:)

Anything divided by zero = infinity does 0/0=1? gets a bit fuzzy there.


I am part of the school of thought that the Absolute can and does in fact evolve at the same
time as being a non-dualist. In a very "uncertainty principle" way, as far as I can see, change in the COS (Cosmic
Operating System) can't occur if it is being observed. The speed of light barriers could be considered a firewall
in that application, protecting the areas that generate change from observation thereby allowing such change
to occur. As soon as it is uploaded past the firewall the change occurs. Once something changes in that realm it
has "always been that" so no change is ever observed as change.

This sounds like when I shake the coins in my hand while casting the I-Ching...the power that "is" can change the
coin to the given combination as long as I don’t see it. :)

Is it possible that quantum scientists make the whole subject vague and difficult because they don’t know
what the **** is going on?


Wikipedia:The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle... states a fundamental limit on the accuracy with
which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle, such as position and momentum, cannot be
simultaneously known. In other words, the more precisely one property is measured, the less precisely the
other can be controlled, determined, or known.

This is somewhat repeated in the Einstein–Podolsky–Rosen paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox)

The reason is IMHO that once you have measured, let’s say, an electron for its momentum it is not going to
hang about while you measure its location...plus, with the crude technology we have the electron is probably
lost after the first interaction with the measuring device. If one had technology that could measure particles
as small as electrons without effecting their being then one could set up two measuring devices and measure
both momentum and position at that given moment, BUT...

The article goes on to say...


The uncertainty principle is a fundamental property of quantum systems, not a statement about the
observational strength of current technology.

Reeaaally! Then I will say that until you look at an electron it is an ice-cream cone. Immediately you stop
looking it reverts back to the ice-cream cone. It is never an ice-cream cone while it is interacting with anything
else, then it acts like a particle or a wave...how weird.
I will call this Ghislain’s Certainty Principal. I may go down in history with the likes of Johann Joachim Becher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Becher)
and his theory of Phlogiston ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory) or win a Nobel prize like the patriarch of the Labotomy Egas Moniz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B3nio_Egas_Moniz)

Think about it...everything has gravitational force...how big is an electron? Just by having a piece of equipment
near it might affect it.

F g = G x mass1 x mass2 / r^2

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1jIZ3nUk83Bcc0TUGkN4Smk1vJT5vd XpvdopZcJWFbWSjOZnH

Just pondering that one ... don’t quote me on it :)

Check out the video below...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

Then ask yourself...what if an electron is ONLY a wave, but a wave that can collapse and expand given
its environment...

The introduction of the measuring device in the above vid may have collapsed the wave so small that it
appeared to act as a particle to us because we didn’t take into account how small a wave could be or how little
we know. :)

I made a little vid ( http://genius.toucansurf.com/Electron%20position.wmv) to explain what I mean. My vid’s won’t play directly on here now...
not sure why...so you have to DL it. :( It's not going to win any Oscars :)

Note: I have no idea what a tool to measure the position of an electron would look like...I invented it here :)

Also, I broke the wave, but maybe that doesn’t happen \o/ however what I'm trying to point out is the electron
is always in the same place but may come into contact with the measuring tool, due to its irregular shape and
attractive forces, at different places. This could account for the position of an electron only being a probability
until its position is measured; nothing spooky there.

Could it be that the probability of measuring it on a particular place on the crap equipment may be the only
random possibility?

Could all the above relate to any quantum particle?

Someone’s going to give me a simple lesson on quantum mechanics now and make me feel silly. :)


Ah-ha! The singularity pointed out in THE MATRIX. Remember where Neo is told that the
singularity, him, is the sum of all the little odds and ends left over, cumulative round-off error so to speak, all
collected and accounted for.

Wouldn't this be the case only if it is considered in a digital way? When analogous you get all the information
warts-and-all there is no "little odds and ends left over” or “cumulative round-off errors". Is the Universe built
digitally in discrete steps or is it built in an analogous way? I'd opt for analogue.


What does infinite unrealized potentiality look like?

An icecream cone? :)


Conscious awareness and UNDERSTANDING makes it real. Without that understanding it is all just "noise".

My views may appear very contradictory at times and this is due to my mind and beliefs being in a constant
state of flux. Does it ever become UNDERSTANDABLE? I could do with turning the noise down a bit /0\


The COS just sort of grew out of the primordial consciousness with no understanding slowly
becoming understanding. It was not the result of any plan, grand or otherwise. Many more layers of trial and
error "programming" accumulated on top of that not so solid base.

Sounds like evolutionism...bring on Richard Dawkins...which I am all for, but I believe something put the
process into operation...creationism...but if this were the case then all the who, what, why, where and when
starts again.



A complete reconceptualization could improve it but also be very dangerous as mistakes
can be made and there is no going back per se. Things are much simpler if one doesn't have to deal with the
extremes.

Could you explain that to me III I couldn't get my head around it?

Thanks

Ghislain

3+O(
11-03-2011, 03:11 PM
3+O(

You said;



I can only answer that request with the answer I gave Albion in another thread.


Reading that back to myself it sounds like a cop out, but it does have a smidgen of truth in it. I love
to read but I fall asleep doing so. :(

I would be grateful if you could pinpoint or summarise, in layman’s terms, the points you think make
Calleman’s theories unbelievable or incorrect.

To summarise your post you said, “I don't see how anyone can come away without thinking
Calleman is a crank”.

If outsiders read some of the entries we post here what do you think they might come away with?

III

I had a longer reply for you, but my session timed out and I lost it. I will suffice to point out what is the maybe the most telling error, which is that Calleman insists that the last day of the Long Count will be 13 Ahau, when every bit of archaeological evidence and current daykeeper practice would tell us it is 4 Ahau. This can be calculated from any stela which has a Long Count date, as they will always include a tzolin day. The Long Count has always been correlated with the tzolkin, the only question is how this calendar corresponds with our own Gregorian calendar.

Calleman's reasoning is that 13 Ahau is the "last" day of the circular tzolkin and must therefore be the last day of the calendar round. This is equivalent to claiming that December 31st, 1999 must be a Sunday because Sunday is the "last" day of the week.

Here is a short link:
http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/call.htm

III
11-15-2011, 06:39 PM
Hi Ghislain,

I am going to do my best to answer difficult questions yiu have asked. Most of these things can only be spoken of by analogy in any case. Nobody can speak "The Truth" as such and everything said is at best an interpretive approximation.


Originally Posted by III

Ah-ha! The singularitypointed out in THE MATRIX. Remember where Neo is told that the singularity,him, is the sum of all the little odds and ends left over, cumulative round-offerror so to speak, all collected and accounted for.

Wouldn't this be the case only if itis considered in a digital way? When analogous you get all the informationwarts-and-all there is no "little odds and ends left over” or “cumulativeround-off errors". Is the Universe built digitally in discrete steps or isit built in an analogous way? I'd opt for analogue.

cumulative round-off error so to speak

I would like to point out the phrase, so to speak, to indicate the nonliteralness of my statement. The CASM (Cosmic ASseMbly language) isn't digital.However it is all built in discrete steps. I guess you could say it has a factor in it, Finagles Universal Variable Constant. It's the value needed to make it all come outright. For instance, Einstein's cosmological constant which has gone in and outof favor as understanding changes.

The discrete steps arelike quantum steps. They are predictable and discrete. If the "place"you need to be has no step on it usually downscaling far enough will let you find a step on one scale or another that lands there. So each change is made step by step. There is still sequence even if no "time". As each change changes the base on which the next change is based, no two changes can exactly balance each other out. Things are always approximately out of balance BUT all the counterbalancing takes place within the closed system. However,this is just an attempt to describe what I have seen and is a minor side issue.

The COS just sort of grewout of the primordial consciousness with no understanding slowly becoming understanding. It was not the result of any plan, grand or otherwise. Many more layers of trial and error "programming" accumulated on top of that not so solid base.

Sounds like evolutionism...bring on Richard Dawkins...which I am all for, but I believesomething put the

process into operation...creationism...but if this were the case then all the who, what, why, where and when starts again.


Well, this gets more to the point. That moment can be experienced, that moment of initial creation. EJ Gold describes it as variously as like a"sneeze" or "vomiting" or others use"ejaculation" for that matter, as a reflexive response of the Absolute to absolutely nothing. This reflexive expulsion of creation appears to be spontaneous and accidental. My experience of it was like an instant of suddenly becoming aware of being aware of something, anything, of being aware of a left thumb and a right thumb that could be held in opposition to each other but only interesting because the amount of opposition doesn't exactly equal. Aside from that single reflexive reaction all the rest is evolution attempting to explore the reaction. How the primordial consciousness exists in a quantum bubble in the first place is probably unanswerable from inside said quantum bubble. There are a few hints, including quantum physics speculation and some mystics’ experiences, that there may be other such quantum bubbles in the“quantum foam” which may also have had primordial consciousness present that evolved completely differently than our quantum bubble here did/does with a different CASM, which might be the real test.

A complete reconceptualization could improve it but also be very dangerous as mistakes can be made and there is no going back per se. Things are much simpler if one doesn't have to deal with the extremes.

Could you explain that to me III I couldn't get my head around it?

In the Patanjalli Yoga Sutras thereare stated the 5 "rules" for claiming something new. Again these are not so much "rules" as a description of those things enforced by the system itself. The evolved system has all sorts of "junk" code in it, things that don't appear to have any further effect, little dead ends of things that didn't work out, attempts to corrupt it to favor certain beings or groups,etc all throughout it. As I have said elsewhere we are self directing self designing evolving intelligences. We start with the original fractal as it currently is, at our center and work with it from there. We change layer after layer in all this work until we come up with our own "self". At somepoint we have the very messy evolved self based on a makeshift kludge for the kernaland we can have a complete overview of our self and if we choose, to replacethe kludge with the completed model. The reason that one might want to do so isthat the original kludge of a kernal has some possibilities built into that make it possible to be corrupted, that causes the system to malfunction in some situations. The system evolves by“uploads” from those consciousnesses that understand it best as demonstrated in a sort of “competition”. This is difficult to describe but suffice it to say that shamans and mystics etc have helped evolve the system over the duration of human consciousness. The changes to our own fractal basis get passed upstream and even through the firewall at times

There is a life cycle of software. First you get the original concept software, which often starts as some little program to do one thing that is rife with flaws and doesn’t error check. Then when it doesn’t perform properly the program is debugged and expanded until it works more like it is supposed to. Many problems with windows flow backto the MS-DOS it was written on top of. Some of the flaws were carried over from the clone of CP/M that became Seattle Computer’s QDOS which was transformed to MS-DOS 1.0. New flaws were introduced intentionally or unintentionally in the cloning. Then new layers were built on top to do multitasking with an inherently single tasking OS at its base. Eventually it becomes too complex to manage trying to keep it compatible with previously written software and avoid new errors. Eventually every change creates as many errors as it clears up or worse. Then it is time to re-conceptualize getting rido f all the kludges, repaired mistakes, multiple logical redirects and other things done in an attempt to make it work right.

Solet’s look at the COS (Cosmic Operating System). It was built quite accidently by the emergingconsciousness. It’s complexity wasincreased as the consciousness(es) discovered it could be more aware and triedto build that in. Later, after life andintelligent life, there became multiple metaphysical “schools” or ways ofthought, religions, etc all trying to expand the system in their own favoreddirections applying code that had only applied to non-living or unintelligentliving systems previously. TheChristians want a system that enforces their ideas as divine writ and penalizes the rest. The Muslims want a system that enforces their ideas as divine writ and penalizes the rest. In the days of old it was conceptualized as being just fine and dandy to murder millions or even hundreds of millions, of those who disagreed with you on spiritual matters. So the question comes up, was it correct for some millennia to mass murder those who disagreed with your groups spiritual beliefs? Has the COS changed to make that explicitly “wrong” or has the interpretation merely changed? At that time it was US vs THEM, TRUEBELIEVERS vs PAGANS, MONOTHEISTS vs PANTHEISTS, CITIZENS vs BARBARIANS. And ATHEISTS were fair game for all to kill. And it was always right to mass murder the others; or was it? The Christians and the Muslims agreed of the correctness of the stand, justd isagreed about who the true believers were compared to those who had to be murdered? Or was this just an interpretation left over from the development of chemistry that certain reactions would ALWAYS proceed in a given direction applied to something else entirely.

I’ve watched folks raised Catholic and others raised Mormon be in gnosis and say all sorts of things that disagree with Catholic or Mormon doctrine that theyimmediately deny ever saying as soon as they emerge from gnosis. Being in gnosis may allow a person to see waybeyond their beliefs for a moment but as soon as they slip back into theirbeliefs they deny ever saying anything else that was inconsistent with theirbeliefs. Even if video taped they denysaying what they can see themselves saying and are unable to say how that tapecould possibly have been made except that it must be a fake. NDEs in people of differing belief systems conform to that persons beliefs in the archetypes seen and reported. It is quite clear that people are generally unable to perceive and retain any information that can’t be made to fit with their beliefs or understanding. The system appears to use that, at least in part, in “judging” who understands the system “best” and is then able to make changes.

So the COS, considered in its “completeness” is a system. However, parts of it were “developed” with very different assumptions than other parts of it. When one collects all the parts and attempts to do a SYSGEN it doesn’t work, it doesn’t come together in a working system. This has been noticed by many, such as the Buddhist mystics who say that “the crystal grid is broken” or those who use a“tree” structure saying that the “tree” is broken or those who merely notice that things just do not work well. To make the system work requires a re-conceptualization that doesn’t require the system to be broken as the current set of assumptions do. Or is that actually intentional? What would be the result of a working system? Would“God” actually wake up and take charge? What would we actually get? Something like the Greek Gods in childish behavior? Or a “Mad demi-urge” as the Gnostics called it? The worst nightmares of God that some push in their sermons of fear? Or now for something completely different with the fickle finger of fate? Re-conceptualizations can be dangerous because if they miss one thing it may cause an undiscovered flaw that causes all sorts of problems down the road or that even prevent said flaw from being fixed. Flaws can be subtle. Suppose a certain “flaw” exists in how those who can change the system is defined such that the system can never be changed again because nobody ever comes up to the standard of understanding again? Is that a flaw or a necessity for the self-protection of the COS or something else entirely? Usually somebody without the understanding needed will muck things up worse than those who do have the understanding as enforced in the system. Since understanding is never perfect nor arechanges and unintended side effects, there are bound to be flaws changed to other flaws, usually more subtle than the ones they are fixing. It is possible to get one’s self into traps that it is difficult to escape from.

Changing things has its risks, and usually relatively small risks and small payoffs. Re-conceptualization is a bigger risk because if a mistake is made it is often very broadly applied. Real changes happen in a blink as do re-conceptualizations. There is no going back. There is no history where those are stored. As humans we regularly store a copy of ourselves and proceed again. This “copy” is more of a “state” that is saved. A series of previously saved states has influence on who and what we think we are. LIFE is where changes can be made. Our changes get passed up the tree. The best ones win their way upwards. So we alter our own copy. The COS recognizes that it is “better” in some ways than the existing system and the copy passes up the tree replacing code as far up the tree as it is able to do so. From time to time changes are passed through the firewall and they take effect on a higher level, at a more fundamental level. So generally any changes that make their way into the base fractal have competed against other versions of the coding and by some manner is selected. There placement, as far as I can see, is generally done piece-meal and without any apparent way for a wholesale replacement. When the coding replaced is at a very low level, very fundamental, and all the changes built on top of it using the changes are also present, it ineffect causes a replacement in whole because everything on top of it also hasto be replaced. Because it is done“live”, despite having been through many layers of testing as it works its wayup the tree long term surprises can still occur. When the modifications are to the base fractal, it goes to “base of self”, then to “local eternity” and then to the“greater eternity”. This all appears tobe quite automatic, built into the system. So re- conceptualizing is both essential to evolution and dangerous. The changes then are already in effect on the lower nodes so in theory those won’t be changed as the change takes effect athigher levels or something like that

When the changes have to do with fundamental things, like the architecture of the system itself, there are very few direct changes. Mostly folks change things much closer to their individual consciousness than underlying architecture. Therefore there is ver ylittle contention and competition for the code changes. Consider, how many ever down-nest that far in the fractal? Who has the possibility of understanding how the COS works better than what is there already? The defects amount to things that were never considered in the first place, just plain misunderstandings and things purposely put in to give an advantage to a given set of beliefs. All those efforts have increased the non-functionality of the system until it broke.

So a question that now presents itself, are we seeing the evidence all around us that somevery fundamental changes have been made in the COS? The current worldwide uproar may be a reflection of that. A monolithic CPU design, like the old fashioned supercomputers appears to have been the design for a long time. This would could lead to “THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE” correct way, kill all others. It can also lead to a multitude of insane macroconsciousnesses such as the “mad demi-urge” describedby the Gnostics. The architecture changed to a multi CPU, like modern supercomputers, might influence a change to THERE ARE MANY PATHS ALONG THE WAY type of thinking which minimizes the probability that a serious error will be increased to insanity. It can allow a huge range of possible answers instead of having to decide early in evolution on THE ONLY WAY which are all going to be wrong except one and that one is correct only by killing off all competition. So flexibility becomes important. It means that while there is still only ONE, that ONE can accommodate the entire range of possibility all balanced off within itself. The one approach seeks a total rigid domination over all other things whereas the multiapproach seeks a balanced system of many possibilities.

In the monolithic CPU model then, a being must have “faith” that they have chosen the only correct path that will prove to be correct only after all competition is killed off. To keep another competing CPUdesign from growing large enough to compete in practice, kill off all thepractitioners of the other systems and the remaining ONE becomes sane bydefinition even if insane by any reasonable standards.

So let’stake a view then from the other side of the firewall. This sub-creation in which we live wasmalfunctioning. It wasn’t generating aflow of “conscious souls” (lack of anything better to call them) as its yieldthat are allowed through the firewall to bring evolution to the “greatercreation”. The purpose of said soulsbringing change to the greater creation appears unknowable from here except that there is no time there so while there can be state changes if imported from where there is “time”, this higher level can’t solve its own problems. The Gnostics considered Christ to be “The voice from OUTSIDE” the domain of the “mad demi-urge” who masqueraded as God. So to put it another way Christ was a messenger from the greater creation down into this firewall protected sub-creation to give a message of LOVE and “The Kingdom is at hand”instead of “kill all others”. Interpretations may vary. Old interpretations of “winner takes all” changed to “tolerance and co-existence”can take a while to happen here where there is time instead of a change in state of the eternal. We each have the opportunity to re-evolve into a newer basis being.

So this is an example of a re-conceptualization, the change from a monolithic CPU to amulti CPU model. The possibility wasalways there but it was just noise until it could be interpreted to actuallybeing that way. I know this went rather far afield into very theoretical metaphysics but I think it is important to have some sort of vague idea of what each of us might be doing here underwhatever guises.


Things are much simpler if one doesn't have to deal with the extremes.


Don’t you simply love those extremes? On many of the dimensional axis’ while the “travel” along the axis can go on indefinitely,a more extreme value doesn’t necessarily increase “understanding” or change anything once the most extreme interpretation is reached. So once the understanding of “kill all different” is reached going to “KILL KILL KILL all different” isn’t any different. In some other directions it is much more like calculus. As one goes along to completing an “octave” one can keep on going indefinitely, like always going 50% of the way to the wall. You never actually get there. At some point it pays to calculate the limit as delta X approaches zero and jump to that limit rather than keep playing the half way game. So we have the characteristic of approaching a limit at the extremes. Continuing along in the same way makes no additional practical changes. So we can approach vertical or approach horizontal or approach some other value as a limit and we can complete that by jumping to the limit. The same thing can happen when the value being approached is zero. Sometimes the approach to zero causes an approach to a verticalaxis. As the values we are talking aboutare not exactly numeric, exactly what it might mean depends upon where you find yourself. Usually it is more useful to consider it an “object” in OOM language, that has certain characteristics and might represent a dimension. Dealing with these things as objects with characteristics works better than trying to make it conform to some “as if” numeric scale.

Ghislain
11-16-2011, 12:13 AM
How does one Re-conceptualize, and if one can then what difference does it make in the whole concept of the COS?


It is quite clear that people are generally unable to perceive and retain any information that
can’t be made to fit with their beliefs or understanding.

How right you are. I suffer from this and because of it always doubt what I think I truly
believe.


A series of previously saved states has influence on who and what we think we are.

If this was true then I would have an idea of who or what I am.


From time to time changes are passed through the firewall

What is your perception of this metaphoric firewall? Does the COS really need a firewall?
Maybe it has a junk “changes” filter.


All those efforts have increased the non-functionality of the system until it broke.

Are you saying that the COS is broken?


So a question that now presents itself, are we seeing the evidence all around us that some
very fundamental changes have been made in the COS? The current worldwide uproar may be a
reflection of that.

Could this be better explained as the effect of implementing a ridiculous pyramidal capitalist system that was doomed to failure in the first place?


It means that while there is still only ONE, that ONE can accommodate the entire range of
possibility all balanced off within itself. The one approach seeks a total rigid domination over all
other things whereas the multi-approach seeks a balanced system of many possibilities.

I am not sure what the ONE is but if it is corporeal then what is to say it, as only ONE, cannot deliver a pseudo-system containing many possibilities.


The Gnostics considered Christ to be “The voice from OUTSIDE” the domain of the “mad demi-urge”

Is this to say there is a creator on the inside and the outside of the firewall?


So this is an example of a re-conceptualization, the change from a monolithic CPU to a multi CPU model.

Don’t let The One hear that!


The possibility was always there but it was just noise until it could be interpreted to actually being that way. I know this went
rather far afield into very theoretical metaphysics but I think it is important to have some sort of vague idea of what each of us might
be doing here under whatever guises.

Ideas don’t come much vaguer than mine :)


like always going 50% of the way to the wall.

I was trying to explain that concept to my son and it took some time to get him to realise that “NO”
he would never get there, while shaking my head in disbelief at the youth of today...:)

Where do the questions ( http://www.newscientist.com/special/ten-mysteries-of-you) end

By re-conceptualizing are we not in fact just putting blinkers on to what really is; hiding behind false constructs?
Not that we may ever know what really is of course, and we are probably living false constructs right now anyway.

Ghislain

III
11-16-2011, 06:20 AM
How does one Re-conceptualize, and if one can then what difference does it make in the whole concept of the COS?

It is quite clear that people are generally unable to perceive and retain any information that
can’t be made to fit with their beliefs or understanding.

How right you are. I suffer from this and because of it always doubt what I think I truly
believe.

A series of previously saved states has influence on who and what we think we are.

If this was true then I would have an idea of who or what I am.

From time to time changes are passed through the firewall

What is your perception of this metaphoric firewall? Does the COS really need a firewall?
Maybe it has a junk “changes” filter.

All those efforts have increased the non-functionality of the system until it broke.

Are you saying that the COS is broken?

So a question that now presents itself, are we seeing the evidence all around us that some
very fundamental changes have been made in the COS? The current worldwide uproar may be a
reflection of that.

Could this be better explained as the effect of implementing a ridiculous pyramidal capitalist system that was doomed to failure in the first place?

It means that while there is still only ONE, that ONE can accommodate the entire range of
possibility all balanced off within itself. The one approach seeks a total rigid domination over all
other things whereas the multi-approach seeks a balanced system of many possibilities.

I am not sure what the ONE is but if it is corporeal then what is to say it, as only ONE, cannot deliver a pseudo-system containing many possibilities.

The Gnostics considered Christ to be “The voice from OUTSIDE” the domain of the “mad demi-urge”

Is this to say there is a creator on the inside and the outside of the firewall?

So this is an example of a re-conceptualization, the change from a monolithic CPU to a multi CPU model.

Don’t let The One hear that!

The possibility was always there but it was just noise until it could be interpreted to actually being that way. I know this went rather far afield into very theoretical metaphysics but I think it is important to have some sort of vague idea of what each of us might be doing here under whatever guises.

Ideas don’t come much vaguer than mine :)

like always going 50% of the way to the wall.

I was trying to explain that concept to my son and it took some time to get him to realise that “NO”
he would never get there, while shaking my head in disbelief at the youth of today...:)

Where do the questions (http://www.newscientist.com/special/ten-mysteries-of-you) end

By re-conceptualizing are we not in fact just putting blinkers on to what really is; hiding behind false constructs?
Not that we may ever know what really is of course, and we are probably living false constructs right now anyway.

Ghislain



How does one Re-conceptualize, and if one can then what difference does it make in the whole concept of the COS?

Let's establish a few OBJECT ORIENTED ideas. For instance. lets take that idea to the Windows computer sitting in front of you (no afront to Apple, I am just not familiar with it and can't use it for an example). If you are viewing a directory object on your computer, it lists the files there. When, completely outside of that instance of the directory viewer object you copy a file to that directory object, it will show up in every instancing of that directory object. This basically converts the idea of sequential programing, a-copy to directory b- call an update function to update all the things that need updating. Rather it converts these things to a state machine that isn't dependent on sequential commands. Rather, the instance of a view into the directory changes because the directory object is changed, not because any program keeps track of having to go through that next.sequence of programed commands. It is one hell of a concept change for those of us who grew up doing sequential programming and invented this object oriented stuff along the way. It is a MAJOR reconceptualization. Consider it is a sequence of objects defined based on other objects. If one of the objects changes then all objects using that object are changed. It can happen outside of time, which isn't part of it's definition. It's order of execution isn't time based or sequence based. Dependent objects are changed whenever those objects it is based on are changed. It is a state machine, not a sequential series of steps. However, don't get caught up on that whole state machine business. It is just a hypothetical to help explain objects.

So let's consider the COS. One might consider the "Tree of Life" to be a representation of one virtual organization of the many objects that in sum total make up the COS. The object COS is made up of subunits that look jsut like the whole COS. And these subunits that in turn are also made up of objects that look just like the COS. And yet, each mini-COS has a different set of parameters in it's instancing so each instance of the COS is unique yet is identical with all other instances of the COS. Monroe reported his experiences in seeing the "macrobeings" that are made up of perhaps a million humans. Conceptualize that there is an even more macro being made up of those macrobeings and so on up the tree to the root. Consider that we humans are made up of masses of microbeings. Everything in creation is used a multitude of different ways based on a multitude of multidimensional views.

Consider each instance of a COS unit as a black box with a defined set of inputs and outputs. The internal structure can be changed as long as the inputs and outputs match, (as if) as long as all "keyed connectors" fit If that version of the black box is "better" it keeps replacing such units going up the tree until it hits one it can't replace.

How to actually reconceptualize is more difficult. Let's consider the tree of life. It could be seen as broken. By observation it was a binary branching tree. To reconceptualize it as a bianry tree KNOWING WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that binary trees can be self-healing automatically reindexing trees allows the tree to be intact instead of damaged. Nothing at all has changed and yet everything changed.

It is quite clear that people are generally unable to perceive and retain any information that
can’t be made to fit with their beliefs or understanding.

How right you are. I suffer from this and because of it always doubt what I think I truly
believe.

In working with people in working through their own re-understanding and re-consceptualizing themselves I start with asking if they could allow that things might be different from what the currently believe. If they can't that is the entry point, finding why they are locked into their current beliefs. If they can, then that is the entry point, leading them through so possible different ideas until they choke and catch the trigger point of choking. A person often is not conscious of what they believe. Usually at best they might know what they want to believe they believe. Most "thinking" is the sum of a whole lot of avoidances and a few attractions all prettied up and justified to appear in line with what we believe should be our beliefs. Our past experiences in this "place" add up to our decision tree for whatever is happening "here" as long as we go through life unconsciously

A series of previously saved states has influence on who and what we think we are.

If this was true then I would have an idea of who or what I am.

Our past experiences(previously saved states) in this "place" add up to our decision tree for whatever is happening "here" as long as we go through life unconsciously. One can learn to "read" it instead of executing it. By "who and what we think we are" I mean basis of our thinking/decisions, regardless of whether we are actually conscious of it or not.


From time to time changes are passed through the firewall

What is your perception of this metaphoric firewall? Does the COS really need a firewall?
Maybe it has a junk “changes” filter.

The "firewall" is the speed of light barriers I have spoken of at various times. It isolates "eternity" from "time". There is only limited and managed information that can be brought through in either direction. No change could occur if time were always being observed. It would have to be just what it always was and always would be. Change can only occur when it can't be seen. Almost no changes make it through the firewall. It is needed to allow change and to prevent all but the most likely to be "good" changes. I'm just attempting to describe and interpret what I have seen in archetypes that make sense, I didn't design it. A "junk" filter might be said to exist as the "competition" at each convergence of branching.

All those efforts have increased the non-functionality of the system until it broke.

Are you saying that the COS is broken?

So let’s take a view then from the other side of the firewall. This sub-creation in which we live was/is malfunctioning. It wasn’t generating a flow of “conscious souls” (lack of anything better to call them) as its yield that are allowed through the firewall to bring evolution to the “greater creation”. The purpose of said souls bringing change to the greater creation appears unknowable from here except that there is no time there so while there can be state changes if imported from where there is “time”, this higher level can’t solve its own problems.


So a question that now presents itself, are we seeing the evidence all around us that some very fundamental changes have been made in the COS? The current worldwide uproar may be a reflection of that.

Could this be better explained as the effect of implementing a ridiculous pyramidal capitalist system that was doomed to failure in the first place?

Nope. The harder people's self concepts and world concepts are challenged the harder and rougher people fight against knowing this. People may use economics or anything else to explain all sorts of things but these are only storylines. They give the opportunity for seeing one's self but they are not about constructing the self. A person that is seeing flashes of a more conscious reality will generally do everything possible to shut that off. The harder it is to shut oiff the harder and more exrtreme their attempts will be. It isn't ever about the storyline. It's about how we respond and react and the stories we tell ourselves.


It means that while there is still only ONE, that ONE can accommodate the entire range of possibility all balanced off within itself. The one approach seeks a total rigid domination over all other things whereas the multi-approach seeks a balanced system of many possibilities.

I am not sure what the ONE is but if it is corporeal then what is to say it, as only ONE, cannot deliver a pseudo-system containing many possibilities.

How could it be corporeal? You and I and everybody are the corporeal portions of the ONE, and that is only a virtual corporeality.

The Gnostics considered Christ to be “The voice from OUTSIDE” the domain of the “mad demi-urge”

Is this to say there is a creator on the inside and the outside of the firewall?

This is a difficult question. What creator? The Brahma made by synthesis of Shiva and Shakti being the two sides of the binary tree? The ONE who involuntarily sneezes? vomits? ejaculates? the first creation of any THING to be aware of, a difference from balanced nothing? It all follows from that one and only act of creation. Everything else is commentary to borrow an old statement.

So this is an example of a re-conceptualization, the change from a monolithic CPU to a multi CPU model.

Don’t let The One hear that!

First, the ONE hears everything all at the same time which is to say the ONE hears nothing specific and doesn't understand anything specific and is aware of nothing specific and cares about nothing specific. As long as everything is balanced and comes out as no thing the self contained details matter not one bit to the ONE. The monolithic CPU versus the multi-CPU matters only to us microbial consciousnesses who happen to have the ability to change things not to the ONE. Nothing at all matters to the ONE.


The possibility was always there but it was just noise until it could be interpreted to actually being that way. I know this went rather far afield into very theoretical metaphysics but I think it is important to have some sort of vague idea of what each of us might be doing here under whatever guises.

Ideas don’t come much vaguer than mine

Here we all are in this world working on our being no matter what we think we are doing, consciously or unconsciously. In doing this were are each and all collaborating on the COS working on larger or smaller scale problems within it according to our abilities, specialties and size.


like always going 50% of the way to the wall.

I was trying to explain that concept to my son and it took some time to get him to realise that “NO”
he would never get there, while shaking my head in disbelief at the youth of today...:)

Where do the questions (http://www.newscientist.com/special/ten-mysteries-of-you) end

When they are heard as answers.

You might find this an interesting read.
Gestalt's Paradoxical
Theory of Change
To become who we can be,
we must first become who we are

http://www.yourheroicjourney.com/Reading%20Room/ArticlesEssays/GestaltChange.htm

By re-conceptualizing are we not in fact just putting blinkers on to what really is; hiding behind false constructs? Not that we may ever know what really is of course, and we are probably living false constructs right now anyway.

Hmmmm. Are there any "real" constructs?

Ghislain
11-17-2011, 02:58 AM
III you use Object Oriented Programming as a metaphor for your explanations, however my
experience in the computing world ended with C+ and assembly language for the Z80 chip...you have
lost me in the world of OOP ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming).

Forgive me for my sciolism, but I have given OOP a cursory glance in Wikipedia. It would appear
there must be a lot of iteration in the differing object code, but then today I guess memory space is
no longer a problem.

I assume that each of us is an object with our own little routines (beliefs). It would be a stereotyped
world if we were all tapped in to the same sequential programme; but then, deeper down, maybe
we are :confused: and hence the success of NLP. Is “The One” another object in the same
programme?

In respect of “Gestalt's Paradoxical Theory of Change”, could you have found a more perplexing
concept than paradox and irony? :). I think I get the gist of it, but how would I know?

To find oneself, after a lifetime of trying to hide who you really are, is no mean feat. To be honest I
wouldn’t know where to start. I often ponder who I really am and wonder if I would like me.
You have planted a seed that now needs to be nurtured...how can one search for “what is” when
one doesn’t know oneself. It would be like trying to swim with a ball and chain around your ankle.

Joseph Campbell ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell ) said,


"I don't know whether my consciousness is proper consciousness or not; I don't know
whether what I know of my being is my proper being or not; but I do know where my rapture is. So
let me hang on to rapture, and that will bring me both my consciousness and my being."

Through this he coined the phrase, “Follow your Bliss”. I can go with that...for now. :)

Is it fundamental that in this search the more you look for answers the more the questions mount
up? I’m going to be left with a bucketful of questions...what is the value of questions without
answers? It’s like negative equity :(

Another hypothesis of Campbell ‘s mentioned in the link you posted is, “The Hero's Journey”, which
he terms, “Monomyth”


In a monomyth, the hero begins in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an
unknown world of strange powers and events. The hero who accepts the call to enter this strange
world must face tasks and trials, either alone or with assistance. In the most intense versions of the
narrative, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help. If the hero survives, he may
achieve a great gift or "boon." The hero must then decide whether to return to the ordinary world
with this boon. If the hero does decide to return, he or she often faces challenges on the return
journey. If the hero returns successfully, the boon or gift may be used to improve the world.
Campbell describes 17 stages or steps along this journey. Very few myths contain all 17 stages—
some myths contain many of the stages, while others contain only a few; some myths may focus on
only one of the stages, while other myths may deal with the stages in a somewhat different order.

These 17 stages may be organized in a number of ways, including division into three sections:
Departure (sometimes called Separation), Initiation, and Return. "Departure" deals with the hero's
adventure prior to the quest; "Initiation" deals with the hero's many adventures along the way; and
"Return" deals with the hero's return home with knowledge and powers acquired on the
journey.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Heroesjourney.svg/398px- ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth)

I feel that this monomyth is the life I have been living over the past few years, but it just adds
another question to my bucket; am I searching for the truth or what I desire the truth to be?

In your previous post you said,


How could it be corporeal? You and I and everybody are the corporeal portions of the ONE,
and that is only a virtual corporeality.

When using the term corporeal I was trying to depict something actual rather than metaphorical...a bad use of language; maybe I should have used your oxymoron “virtually corporeal” ;)

Ghislain

III
11-18-2011, 06:27 PM
III you use Object Oriented Programming as a metaphor for your explanations, however my experience in the computing world ended with C+ and assembly language for the Z80 chip...you have
lost me in the world of OOP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming).

Forgive me for my sciolism, but I have given OOP a cursory glance in Wikipedia. It would appear
there must be a lot of iteration in the differing object code, but then today I guess memory space is
no longer a problem.

I assume that each of us is an object with our own little routines (beliefs). It would be a stereotyped
world if we were all tapped in to the same sequential programme; but then, deeper down, maybe
we are :confused: and hence the success of NLP. Is “The One” another object in the same
programme?

In respect of “Gestalt's Paradoxical Theory of Change”, could you have found a more perplexing
concept than paradox and irony? :). I think I get the gist of it, but how would I know?

To find oneself, after a lifetime of trying to hide who you really are, is no mean feat. To be honest I
wouldn’t know where to start. I often ponder who I really am and wonder if I would like me.
You have planted a seed that now needs to be nurtured...how can one search for “what is” when
one doesn’t know oneself. It would be like trying to swim with a ball and chain around your ankle.

Joseph Campbell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell) said,



Through this he coined the phrase, “Follow your Bliss”. I can go with that...for now. :)

Is it fundamental that in this search the more you look for answers the more the questions mount
up? I’m going to be left with a bucketful of questions...what is the value of questions without
answers? It’s like negative equity :(

Another hypothesis of Campbell ‘s mentioned in the link you posted is, “The Hero's Journey”, which
he terms, “Monomyth”



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Heroesjourney.svg/398px- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth)

I feel that this monomyth is the life I have been living over the past few years, but it just adds
another question to my bucket; am I searching for the truth or what I desire the truth to be?

In your previous post you said,



When using the term corporeal I was trying to depict something actual rather than metaphorical...a bad use of language; maybe I should have used your oxymoron “virtually corporeal” ;)

Ghislain

HI Ghislain,

III you use Object Oriented Programming as a metaphor for your explanations, however my experience in the computing world ended with C+ and assembly language for the Z80 chip...you have
lost me in the world of OOP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming).

I'm atempting to use a very fundamental to unerstanding concept of classes. So class - DOG, Instance DOG Poodle, DOG Beagle etc in a general way.. I'm just a beginner in OOP myself. It's just that it has a LOT of application seeing all these mystical and metaphysical things. What would seem like a collection of a lifetime of mystical experiences can also be seen in an organized fashion and it fits very well. I started out in 1981 on 68000 AMOS Basic and went on there. I had my first experience with C on a Z80 when some of those inexpensive C compilers came out.

Have you seen some of those fractal generation screensavers or programs. You can just keep going deeper and deeper into it. No matter where you look if you keep blowing it up you always get back the the basic fractal mandelbug Every part of it contains the whole thing. BUT it LOOKS different from different places, perspective you know. We have 7 billion people on Earth now, each absolutely unique in the fractal position viewpoint and perspective. And yet every single one of them is of the same class, HUMAN. So each person is a separate specific individual all built on the same metaphysical chasis.


It would appear there must be a lot of iteration in the differing object code, but then today I guess memory space is no longer a problem.

Recursion is perhaps even more widespread than iteration. Memeory isn't a problem per se but it is somewhat limited. Filling up the scratchpad area with changes appears to force a writeback when it is filled up. Again, everything I say is just a convienient archetype for perception and use. To the extent that it is approximately accurate it is approcximately effective.

I assume that each of us is an object with our own little routines (beliefs).

It's more like the beliefs are a result of what we are left with after we have blocked out almost everything else

It would be a stereotyped world if we were all tapped in to the same sequential programme; but then, deeper down, maybe we are :confused: and hence the success of NLP. Is “The One” another object in the same programme?

Let's start with ONE. In the condition of ONE it is nothing, nothing to perceive, nothing to do, nothing to understand, no observer or observed. The fractioning is all internal. So in analogy if the ONE is perceived as a sphere, then if the internal space splits in half and then each such space splits in half again and again and again. It is the object that contains all objects. At the level of the first split there is a difference and an awareness of being aware of something. As the splits keep happening it's like each piece can be a pixel so there can be more detail. A picture with one pixel, no matter how big, isn't much to look at. Size is relative.

I put a person who had studied NLP through a beginning exercise in learning how to observe what we do. The exercise is simple, learn to see where the choice is made, and how the choice is constructed, to open the door or turn on the water or flush the toilet with the automatic hand and change that. The NLP trained person changed the automatic hand in a couple of minutes instead of months but completely failed at the purpose of the exercise and did not succeed in learning how to observe such things. The purpose of the exercise was not the painless rapid changing of hands. Instead it is training in a certain type of "struggle" to deeply observe.

We are all working on the same stereotyped world. The catch is that is much bigger than a human can deal with so we each are dealing with a tiny part of the whole from out own specific viewpoint so everything looks different to everybody. While the underlying world structure is the same, our interpretations, understandings, parameter settings etc are all different.


In respect of “Gestalt's Paradoxical Theory of Change”, could you have found a more perplexing concept than paradox and irony? :). I think I get the gist of it, but how would I know?

Paradox produces a "tension" that can produce a change. There has to be uncertainty for change to occur. You might call Alchemy "practical philosophy". If something is uncertain, a different choice can be made which will change the "decision tree" if repeated and reinforced. After that different choice has been made several times, it becomnes the new "default" choice.

An important part of the entire practice is the "purification". This is working through one's libray of automatic unconscious reactions. Each time one of these automatic reactions occurs it prevents an inflow of information. In teaching the yoga meditation it is spoken of the mind as a pond that becomes a mirror if still. First one finds and elliminates the big boulders getting heaved into the pond making big waves, then large rocks and medium rocks etc down to find sand as various layers are worked through. The terminolgy and exact methods can vary but it is the same thing being worked with.


To find oneself, after a lifetime of trying to hide who you really are, is no mean feat.

To change, one must first know where one is. Without knowing where one is standing, it is not possible to predict where one will be after taking a step. Real change is not possible until one has located where one really is. Purification and "waking up" are the starting places. Purification itself makes lots of changes by removing what amounts to imperitive override emergency programming that sits on top the basic structure and changes everything. The process is to remove this unconscious reaction and remani conscious, not change it to something we like better while remaining asleep.

To be honest I wouldn’t know where to start.

That is the easiest part, one starts where one is. That is the only possible place to start. I assure you that everybody has multiple opportunities each day to start. One sets up "the observer" which, if you keep a little attention on it, watches what you do and catches the reactions that lead to unconscious responses. This can be done via the changing hands exercise

I often ponder who I really am

Do you feel a need to be anybody specific? I ask that because Alchemy is a process that produces change after change. And after the changes accumulate to a certain amount that which is the individual is "recast" into a "new" "me". A person who thinks that one is already the best and only possible "me" will reject changes propelling them into a different "me". All this while the "I AM" never changes no matter what changes.

I used to ask that same question, "Who am I really?" I've never come up with a good answer. The non-dualist answer is God, at the highest level of self, but that is not necessarily an identity However, who does that make me, or anybody, at all other levels? At the "live in this world" level, after my ex-wife remarried I asked her what her new husband was like. She said "Like you used to be". In my case decades of illness and neurological deterioration were also involved, not just alchemy. As I started recovering the me I became when all the changes took effect that had been unrealized until I recovered enough, made a noticable difference all at once and it was too much for my wife. During the illness a couple of times I came back from one NDE and we were complete strangers to each other. That was obvious to both of us the first moment we laid eyes on each other on my return home.

and wonder if I would like me.

For an awful long time I wasn't satisfied with what I was. I was getting clobbered by life and I wanted to know why In fact I was desparate. We are talking about REAL CHANGE. The biggest hazards are in making changes for EGO based reasons. As the changes that we can make are broad, not pinpoint, it's important to understand that. Lets take a look at one of the 7 deadlys, greed. A person's ego might say "I like who I am except I would like to be rich. The catch is one doesn't set the "richness" parameter. Instead changes are made, lot's of them, to bring a person into line with what it would take for them to make the choices and decisions leading to being rich. This might cost a person in things like compassion or general approach to life and leisure. A lot of people get that way by being workaholics for instance. I've know quite a few wealthy people. For those that have done it themeselves, many of them have worked 80 hour weeks for years. Much of the cost has been in other parts of their life; relationships, avocations (alchemy for instance), leisure time and even style of vacationing. For vacation I do exactly what I want to do. More money wouldn't change that. I have a minimal RV at a seasonal site at a rustic nudist club. Half the folks at the club have a significantly bigger, more expensive RV, but still limited by small site sizes. There are disabled people, working people, wealthy people and rertired people. However only their closest friends know who has wealth. However, everybody there is there for the rustic friendly environment. There are clubs where they could stay in their million doller condo if they wanted to make that kind of show. So money isn't everything. The hazard of money is that if to make changes means risking the nature of ourselves, no guarantees as to what effects any specific change will actually have, and as a result it's very easy for somebody to get stuck by fearing to give up wealth or other attachments when they change. It's safer not to change if one fears losing wealth or any specific things

The sucessful alchemist has to be willing to keep rolling the dice, until JUMANJI! That is a cautionary tale. So is BUTTERFLY EFFECT. Changes are made progressively; reiteratively and/or recursively. Every change is just a part of what needs to be done. We progress from one out of balance position to the next always "going in approximately the wrong direction" (EJ Gold). If one becomes "satisfied" or "happy" with ones self it's after a long effort. A more common thing is to accept one's self without defending that self leaveing it subject to change as we purify and change for non-ego reasons. The ONLY thing we can actually change is our self. Outcome follows from those changes. Trying to change "outcome" doesn't work, see GROUNDHOG DAY, BUTTERFLY EFFECT, RETROACTIVE, 12:01 and many others. GROUNDHOG DAY appears most accurate in many ways. In listening to the commentary one finds out that the duration of Groundhog Day was 10,000 years in the concept. When he changes to the coffee shop with classical music playing marks his "change self" as strategy period start. A change of criteria can help, for instance "Am I making progress". This can usually be seen as changes in understanding as triggers are removed and many other manifestations. If understanding increases one syllable per change, it can take a number of changes to have the new fully formed understanding. One starts small (the mustard seed) and as things progress they expand to much larger sizes.

.
You have planted a seed that now needs to be nurtured...

Hmmmm

how can one search for “what is” when one doesn’t know oneself. It would be like trying to swim with a ball and chain around your ankle.

Learn one's self.. That is what this is about, learning about one's self and then taking control of one's own evolution. Going after one's trigger points and fears changes a whole lot of understanding and reunites much of the missing parts of self. As these are reunited pieces of the ball and chain drop off. This is all setup for being able to see "what is". It is not only a matter of removing triggers and other blockages but that is a real good start.

Through this he coined the phrase, “Follow your Bliss”. I can go with that...for now. :)

Is it fundamental that in this search the more you look for answers the more the questions mount
up? I’m going to be left with a bucketful of questions...what is the value of questions without
answers? It’s like negative equity :(

Questions aren't all they are cracked up to be. Neither are answers. It's more like "The more you know, the more you know you don't know". And of course one doesn't even know that he knows unless he looks (tries to remember?) Whereas a "cosmic consciousness" experience has information flooding in and is very obvious, there is a more quiet knowing. The information is just there when looked for. I used to have loads of deja vu experiences. Then one day I started remembering where the experience linked to and the memory link was intact instead of leaving me holding a lead that cuts off giving the deja vu experience. The problem is there is nothing shouting out that this memory is any different than any other, that it is a memory of the fututre or a different past. It's always a surprise to read of the new movie by somebody I remembered reading the obituary on. As far as metaphysical understandings, they are there when having a suitable discussion with somebody, a TANTRA in the sense of the "channelled" esoteric conversation between dieties (symbolic). As one sicience fiction author put it, The TRUTH is not only stanger than you imagine, it's stanger than you can imagine. EVERYTHING that one appears to know in this realm goes through our interpretative archetypes. If ones acceptable archetypes are very narrowly drawn, that is the fraction of the "truth" that one might see. I had a small invocational group experiencing Christ consciousness one night. One woman could only experience it as a "mothership" connection to aliens. Even she recognized that was not the actual experience but only the face her belief system put upon it.


Another hypothesis of Campbell ‘s mentioned in the link you posted is, “The Hero's Journey”, which
he terms, “Monomyth”

The diagram of the Heros Journey very well describes the metaphysical journey. One expeiriences thresholds and at those thresholds one meets up with ones fears and must let go of the fear to go through the threshold. The thresholds come in flavors more or less corresponding to the chakras and energies flowing through those chakras with the fears being out fears blocking certain "frequencies" of energy/information. The confrontation with the fears can certainly be seen as confrontation with the guadians of the threshold if one personifies things.



I feel that this monomyth is the life I have been living over the past few years, but it just adds
another question to my bucket; am I searching for the truth or what I desire the truth to be?

Good question. As far as I can tell just about everybody is searching for what they desire the truth to be and find the TRUTH, if they are able to open to it, to be not what they wanted.


In your previous post you said:
How could it be corporeal? You and I and everybody are the corporeal portions of the ONE, and that is only a virtual corporeality.

When using the term corporeal I was trying to depict something actual rather than metaphorical...a bad use of language; maybe I should have used your oxymoron “virtually corporeal” ;)


Well, most people think this is a solid world just as they perceive it. I used to think it was. However, I had way too many experiences that had to be miricles or SOP. If they were SOP than I was just remembering the experiences most people appear to file and forget becasue they are too strange to think about NOW and are never though about again unless somebody like me brings them up. I will tell you one of mine. It happened with my wife way back in 1974. We had just a week before moved into an apartment. Our furniture was still in storage so the apt was empty. There was a knock on the door. We were exercising on the floor with YES playing, Close to the Edge was about halfway done. We got up. I opened the door and without a word one of the two men there raised his gun and shot me in the head. My wife saw that too. An instant later we were both on the floor exercising and my wife blurted out DON'T OPEN THE DOOR. Close to the Edge had started over. There was no knock this time. We both remembered it and had the same experience. My 2 daughters had a shared experience too in a car. I know others who also has similar experiences. Now you tell me how those things happen regularly in an actual physical world. Having to have regular miricles and exception processing to handle these apparaently routine things doesn't make sense. However, in a virtual world it's easy and no miricles or interventions by angels or breaking of "natural laws" is required. In the quantum mechanics then this would be an example of the "many worlds" hypothesis. I've had more death experinces than you can shake a stick at. The only reason that "near" gets put on them is that I'm alive hear to tell about it. So where is "HERE"? It's where I come to each time after I die. Most of the people I work with for short times is to help them through their death traumas or get them ready to die. Or maybe I'm in a coma in a hospital somewhere and this is where my mind is, dreaming away the years. Is there anybody here? If you are sure you are not me and are reading this then maybe I'm not in the hospital in a coma dreaming all this. So, WHERE IS HERE? When you can answer that in detail you will know the truth of this world. So if this is a virtual world, a cosmic holodeck as it were, then we are here with virtual corporeality. So that brings me to the album THE AMERICAN METAPHYSICAL CIRCUS and the song WAITING TO DIE (and the amazing induction sequence just before it) by Joe Byrd. Have fun.

Andro
01-28-2012, 02:37 PM
You can of course watch the entire 2.5 hours video, but the very intriguing 2012 related stuff starts at the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nkIIBnIuXHM#t=7173s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nkIIBnIuXHM#t=7173s)

Awani
02-02-2012, 10:20 PM
Con: http://www.2012hoax.org/

Pro: http://www.terence2012.com/

2 sides 2 every coin.

:cool:

Pleroma
02-02-2012, 10:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VX2gy4k3AQ
japanese princess talks about civilization in the hollow earth and 2012 thing..

Andro
02-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Con: http://www.2012hoax.org/

Pro: http://www.terence2012.com/

2 sides 2 every coin.

They can both be true simultaneously :)

We'll have to live/die and see for ourselves what comes to pass.

Awani
02-06-2012, 03:11 AM
I don't endorse it, I just post it...

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/384094_10150409057645942_175868780941_8880161_8036 11560_n.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNpfc3-m0fQ&feature=youtu.be


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuD28y77OVw&feature=related

:cool:

Awani
02-28-2012, 02:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UwvpsVsawMg#!


Everyone is talking about the Mayan Prophecies of 2012.
But who is listening to the Maya?

This groundbreaking film brings us the voices of the Mayan people as they share their perspectives on the prophecies of their ancestors and their fight to defend Mother Earth and their culture from destruction.

2012 The Mayan Word is both a message of hope and a call to action. Featuring testimonies from contemporary Mayans throughout Mesoamerica, from spiritual guides to activists, community leaders, farmers, artists, teachers, and children, this film is an extraordinary journey into the heart of Mayan struggle and spirituality.


:cool:

Ghislain
02-28-2012, 09:05 PM
Wow a powerful message Dev...

I sat here watching feeling both part of the solution, but also part of the problem.

How much am I willing to change?

I really don't know the answer to that...

I'm sure it will come.

Ghislain

Illen A. Cluf
02-28-2012, 10:56 PM
Thanks, Dev, that was a powerful and well-done documentary. It brings back memories, having seen Chichen Itza and several other Mayan sites on at least two separate occasions.

Awani
04-01-2012, 10:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqcdjUxroQ


Something's got a hold on me and I don't know what
It's the beginning of a new age...

:cool:

Nibiru
09-19-2012, 08:38 PM
I recently had a vision of the potential pole-shift to come during a philosophical discussion I was having with Solomon Levi. I/we saw that a 'pole-shift', if one were to ever happen, could happen on multiple levels at once. Since the 'vision' came in images, I'll try to let pictures do the talking for me:


http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/images10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=17&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/normal10.png (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=18&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/images11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=19&u=17569523)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/chakra10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=23&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/pressu10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=24&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/bsteve10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=25&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/sianal10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=26&u=17569523)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/rider-10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=20&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/12hang10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=21&u=17569523)

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/rws-0110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=22&u=17569523)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/imgpre10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=27&u=17569523)


;)

Nibiru
09-20-2012, 01:34 AM
Conclusion:



http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/broken10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=32&u=17569523)


http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/dagaz14.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=35&u=17569523)

Axismundi000
09-20-2012, 09:50 PM
the clock of giza is fantastic!

thankyou.

Ghislain
09-21-2012, 12:37 AM
the clock of giza is fantastic!

thankyou.

The clock isn’t all that fantastic...for a race of people who can perform their geometry with such
accuracy then why are the points of the Seal of Soloman not equi-distant?

I drew this myself and came up with, pretty much, the same drawing as in the video clip and there is
a great difference between the distance... at the points between 2,309 BC and the halfway point to
10,949 BC, which I calculate as 6,629 BC... and the distance between 2,309 BC and the point which is
stated to be 2,012 which, correct me if I am wrong, is actually (4,320 – 2309 )= 2,011?

This is actually easy to see in the video without having to measure it.

The square seems to serve no purpose as a line can be taken through the centre of the two largest
pyramids to come up with the point at 10,949 BC.

The story is interesting, but is it correct? For a clock there seems to be a lot of inaccuracies.

The Seal of Soloman depicted on the morrocan coin below seems to be made up of two equilateral
triangles, which are not possible to create using the criteria mentioned in the video.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Moroccan_4_Falus_Coin_%28AH_1290%29.jpg/220px-Moroccan_4_Falus_Coin_%28AH_1290%29.jpg
Just an observation.

Ghislain

Edit: Interestingly if you draw a circle inside the square it passes through the centre of the smallest pyramid.

Ghislain
09-21-2012, 12:47 AM
Nibiru

Where did you get the pic in your post above?

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/sianal10.jpg

As I would like to see a version big enough to read.

Ghislain

Axismundi000
09-21-2012, 12:49 AM
Re: Giza clock
I disagree with your observation Ghislain.

Firstly the photo used is not perfect plan view. Secondly for what could be called bronze age people, using my pocket calulator and rule of thumb from the laptop screen I think they did OK.

Ghislain
09-21-2012, 01:00 PM
Google Earth's picture of the area is taken at a terrible angle to do any reasonable calculation but
I tried to look for the most perpendicular photo I could find.

It doesn't matter what way you look at it, the distance from the point at 10, 949 BC to the base of
the Sphinx is always going to be too long to allow an equilateral triangle to be formed, but I will say
the triangle that is formed does appear to be a perfect isosceles triangle of which the centre line
passes right through the centre of the great pyramid (Pyramid of Khufu/Cheops).

Maybe that’s what they intended.


Ghislain

Nibiru
09-24-2012, 05:41 PM
Nibiru

Where did you get the pic in your post above?

http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/sianal10.jpg

As I would like to see a version big enough to read.

Ghislain

I'm sorry Ghislain, but I spent quite some time trying to find the original for you online with no luck. I first located it by using a google image search of the chakras, but when I had originally found it I had done many searches with a combination of key-words. I was trying to find a pic that showed the chakras in a way where they appeared as an hour-glass filled on the top half, and was lucky enough to find that image. I too would like to read the rest of it again, so if you happen to run across the image please share and I will do the same :)

Ghislain
09-24-2012, 06:51 PM
Found it...I put in "Sianala chakras" for the search.

http://ianala.blogspot.co.uk/2006/11/chakras-part-i.html is the site it is from

Here (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Un3BXWLLl7g/RXDj3j1RInI/AAAAAAAAAAM/oafq0lapTHA/s1600/Sianala_chakras_awakened1.JPG) is the enlarged picutre

Thanks for your effort Nibiru, much appreciated

Ghislain

Axismundi000
09-24-2012, 08:24 PM
I appreciate your effort and forensic rigour Ghislain.

Nibiru
09-25-2012, 05:09 PM
Found it...I put in "Sianala chakras" for the search.

http://ianala.blogspot.co.uk/2006/11/chakras-part-i.html is the site it is from

Here (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Un3BXWLLl7g/RXDj3j1RInI/AAAAAAAAAAM/oafq0lapTHA/s1600/Sianala_chakras_awakened1.JPG) is the enlarged picutre

Thanks for your effort Nibiru, much appreciated

Ghislain

Thank you :)

Ezalor
09-25-2012, 10:17 PM
First of all, my apologies for not reading the whole thread, but I feel like I want to write this down, right NOW. I will probably read later, so far the ONLY thing I looked at was Nibiru's explanation of his vision in images. I will answer to that after I wrote down this.


So... I knew the great change will happen, my entire life. I knew it since I was a lil' child. And I've SEEN it.

For around ten years - hard to remember - of my childhood life, I had dreams (or better say visions) about it almost every single night. That means thousands of dreams. They started when I was pretty small. Part by part, they connected together, often by the next starting with extreme precision where the previous ended, and they became full stories. It was just like a movie, except that in some parts I was the watcher, while in others, I experienced it from first person. And sometimes both, simultaneously. Unlike most other dreams I had, these ones were completely clear, straightforward and logical, with no "weird or funny parts", or the loss of sense, chaotic changes, none of these. Really like a movie. I was in almost all of them, even when I was just watching myself. My age wasn't clear, but I would have guess roughly around 25. There were also some taking place in a more distant future where I was way older than that. That was of course a very imprecise guess, especially since I was only a kid. But now I'm 26.

I've seen - or rather being shown - a few different versions of the great change. I've seen the two extremities, total global destruction, and an Utopian global elevation.

There was two version for the destruction: One was a global war, destroying the whole planet, every country and nation. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons were used as well as advanced technological weapons. The death toll was about 99% of humanity. The few survivors had no food and resources. Some have chosen to become cannibals, others founded a kind of bandit army, called the "Wolf Pack" that was killing others for their resources, and their only rule was that the stronger takes from the weaker whatever he wants. Even amongst themselves. And in top of that all, were those things that were pretty much resembling "zombies": bodies of people AND animals who died, but their souls couldn't leave, and got trapped in a half alive, half decomposing body they couldn't control, but merely worked as an "energetical battery" to keep them moving, them being reduced to some basic instincts. I was maybe 12-13 when I saw this. I also saw myself, surrounded with my small band of fighters, laying atop a pile of trash, they reading their various weapons while I sniped down the leader of a small Wolf Pack "unit", with a rifle that looked like an AR-15 with a red dot optics and an under-barrel grenade launcher. Needless to say, in that age I didn't really watch action movies, so I had no idea about weapons. I only identified it many many years later. After that we fought using both modern weapons, swords, AND magick. Ammo was rare and thus valuable so we didn't waste unless necessary, rather used swords and a few of us was able to cause physical damage with raw magickal energies, though it wasn't too strong, usually not enough to kill someone. Many years passed, fighting in a world consisting of ruins, ashes, rubbish and bones and bodies, until finally a survivor army emerged to face, and finally defeat the Wolf Pack, and thus starting a new future - from there on, we start to rebuild our world. I remember becoming an old man, when finally a new world awaited our children and grandchildren. A perfect world, with newfound harmony among men and nature, teachings based on love, and the all-penetrating feeling of belonging together. Only those ready for this survived. But out there in the wilderness, in ruined cities overgrown by forests, and in forgotten underground tunnels, dwell something dark, and watched... waiting for its chance to strike. And that was a battle our children and grandchildren had to fight, decades after my death, to finally defeat it once and for all. Defeating, but not destroying, because there cannot be a light without shadows. But finally, a balance have been achieved. It was I think more than 100 years later than now.

The other version was still a complete destruction, but... as opposed to the long suffering and living on ruins, it was rather "clean" and fast. It happened really fast. A few have already seen it, and oredticted it, but they knew of course that they can't stop it because they majority thinks they are lunatics. So they rather worked on getting to know each other, getting in touch, and preparing, knowing that when the time comes, it will be their responsibility to step forward, to become the new "mages" or "druids", the people who have wisdom and knowledge, and the power of Magick, and they will have to lead the rest through whatever shall come. I was one of them. As the time approached, more and more became aware, and our numbers grew, but we were still a tiny minority. And then the time came... the sky turned red, the stars, the Sun and Moon disappeared, the earth rumbled, and fear stroke in everyone. In mere minutes, portals opened all over the world, on the ground and in the skies, and millions of demons came through - in material bodies and surrounded by flames. They were invulnerable to any physical weapon, even magic could only hold them back for a few moments, and the only way to destroy them was to cut their heads down with swords magickally prepared. But there were only very few capable of that. Once again, 9% of humanity died, and all cities were reduced to ground. In a time frame of mere HOURS. After that, their numbers became much fewer, most of them returning through the portals they came from but many staying. Me and the others who were preparing for this quickly organized evacuation of the survivors, into sanctuaries that we called "arks". I guess the term came from Biblical reference, but have no idea who coined it. Should add by the way, if you may identify this story with the Biblical Battle of Armageddon, that Christians, including their priests perished just in the same numbers as people of other faiths. They knew no any god or religion, and made no difference. The only selection seemed to be, that only people with a certan level of spiritual understanding or faith survived. Regardless of their religion. I particularly remember one Christian priest: I found him in a temple, with a bunch of believers. They thought the temple, the crosses, holy water or the priest can defend them. Well... neither worked. After a hard and exhausting fight I defeated the demon that broke in to kill them, but barely. The priest however, when he realized I'm using magick, and that I hve nothing to do with his god, first considered me an enemy, and I personally just wanted to leave him there to died from whatever comes next, if he is stupid enough to refuse to come with me... but the people with him wanted to come with me, they trusted me, and finally convinced him. We didn't like each other at first... but after many days, all the animosity slipped away. he changed a lot, and finally we ended up on good terms. He realized, that we both believe in the superiority of Love, and finally he concluded, even though I am not a Christian, we believe in the same.
So, the arks... I don't remember how we know of them, and where they are, I think... we just felt them. So we led the people there. These areas were magickal sanctuaries, with some power we didn't know where it came, but it worked as a force field, through which nothing vile could have entered. People all around the World stayed in them. Sometimes we sent warriors out to look for food and resources, and potential survivors. From time to time the scouts led some new people back into the ark we lived in. It was, as all of them, in a natural area, a forest with hills. Inside, somehow all people started to work together well. Everyone found a place, a job to do, everyone was OK. The differences caused by religion or other views disappeared. Meanwhile, the world outside was empty. No any living creatures. No animals, only a few survivor groups for the first few weeks, then nothing. Not a single dog, or rat. Like they all disappeared. And in the empty villages and ruined cities there were no bodes. No bones. All the dead mysteriously disappeared. But some demons still lurked out there. Time passed, and after years, we suddenly realized, that we didn't hear of any demon in a long time. Then one day, everyone went crazy about something very interesting, that something happened. I got there to see. It was a bird. It came from outside. It was the first animal we saw outside, in a long time. We knew this was a sign.
Then in the next days, the first animals appeared. Then more, and more. We sent out more scouts, but there was no sight of danger. Finally me and a few more, along with some warriors went back to the city. Everything was calm and peaceful. The plants have overgrown the ruins, there were animals around, birds nested on the ruined buildings. There was peace. We went back, and told everyone. So finally, we left the sanctuary, and started to build a new life, a new world. From here on, it was pretty similar: getting old, seeing myself die, the next generations growing up, then a few demons reappeared one day, and there was a final fight, and only peace after that.

These were the versions for the nit-so-nice extremity. In both case, about 1% survived, but after a hundred year or more, there was a new, peaceful world.

The other end was a mostly peaceful change. I was member of a group of people we were preparing - a bit similar to the demon story - but then the awakening was much stronger, more and more people believed and trusted us. We became an international organization of people who server in assisting the change. We had big headquarters, hundreds, then later thousands of members all around the world. Everyone mysteriously knew exactly what they have to do. In our headquarters, there were no orders, no leadership, everyone did what they were the best with, and it all worked together like a perfect machine, like delicate clockwork. We held open circles (people sitting in circles under trees in parks, and some other calm open places) with teachers telling them about the change, and how they can prepare. I was doing that as well, I remember one such session in a park. The people were scared and afraid, and asked questions about how it will happen, what will come, and I was calming them, telling them they have to fear not. I was earing a long robe, and holding a long wooden staff in my hand, as most of those in our organization who did teaching and other complex things. (As opposed to people who did simple things, like sending emails, communicating with other headquarters, or making sandwiches to eat - and all were equally important, the guy who made sandwiches for us was just as important as the leaders of the headquarters. All did their own part, and did it well.)
Finally our power has grown so great that we could affect politics, we could pressure presidents and other politicians. There were a few fightings, some revolts, some politicians assembled their own personal mercenary armies. Some cities under them became city states, fighting for power, but all in all, there was very little blood, and mist of these leaders were defeated, often without much force. Finally this organization, over years, completely take control over the world, uniting it as a single world-nation where everyone is equal, equally important and respected and free. There were not many laws as there was no need for them. The general wisdom and morals kept things in order. Then once again, I saw myself growing old. When I was white haired, long bearded old man, cities were flourishing, using only environmentally friendly and renewable high-tech technology, and magic. Magcik and science merged, and attained harmony, there was no longer contradiction between the two approach, but were generally understood to be the sides of the same coin, and later on, they even interwoven each other. There were technology, that used magick along with electric circuits. And every city had a huge tower in its center, home of the "mage order". They were gigantic, and on the many levels there were all kinds of wonders, halls devoted to magickal focus crystals, lecture halls, libraries, herbal gardens. Most of the buildings had greenhouses on their tops, flourishing with medical herbs, fruits and spices. There was no misery, no starvarion. And even magickal creatures, such as dragons existed again, in materialized form.
But yet again, just like in the other two stories, there was something evil lurking in the dark. And the world was not perfect yet... I experienced from the viewpoint of a mage, what happened next, He discovered a corrupted mage, who stole a dragon egg, and as finally turned out, even more, and wanted to use them to gain power, and take over the tower, then the city... then the world. And there were more, there was a secret conspiracy. The mage whose eyes I've seen this through used a hall in the tower, entirely covered and occupied with huge, deep blue crystals, and called "The hall of justice", to uncover them. These crystals had great power to revela truth, and do justice, and even let this mage get in direct contacr with the universal spirit of justice. The spirit led him, and helped him. When truth unrevealed about teh conspiracy, broke out what was called "The mage war", a great magickal war fought mostly in the skies, by the most powerful mages of the two sides (the consiprators and the rest), even dragons took place in the fight. There was havoc all around, flames and explosions, lightnings and raw magickal powers, causing a pretty spectacular, but not too serious damage in the towers and cities. Finally the conspirators were defeated and finally there was true harmony.


Apart from these, I've seen some fragments of other alternatives, but saw the full stories of these three. For many many years, I was totally sure that one of the destruction versions will be the case around this time. But today I think, things will go somewhere in between the extremities, and because of that, probably the whole thing will be much less spectacular than we expect. Maybe it will not be spectacular at all, and maybe it will take not a hundred years, but two or three, or more.

I don't know. The future is not predestined.

But this change goes on since a few decades already. There was no any specific starting date, it is simply a speedup or increase in natural development process. It always was and will always be. If we were to draw a graph of the speed of this change-inducing force, it would look like this:
664
It increases, then it has it's peak in 2012, and then slowly goes down back to normal. Se we just got things sped up significantly. I'm not sure where is the exact peak, but it doesn't really matter. The Winter Solstice seems logical though.



Regarding Nibiru's vision:

Aye. Mostly. But I think your conclusion isn't clear.

Also notice, there are two ways to get from the Fool to the Mage: You can around, and arrive directly, or, you can go through the deck... but then notice the cards before and after the Hanged man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/RWS_Tarot_13_Death.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/RWS_Tarot_12_Hanged_Man.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/RWS_Tarot_11_Justice.jpg


All in all, there is much work we can do. Each of us, even if individually we seem irrelevant, by doing our part, if all does, we do change things.

Nibiru
09-27-2012, 04:41 AM
Also notice, there are two ways to get from the Fool to the Mage: You can around, and arrive directly, or, you can go through the deck... but then notice the cards before and after the Hanged man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/RWS_Tarot_13_Death.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/RWS_Tarot_12_Hanged_Man.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/RWS_Tarot_11_Justice.jpg


All in all, there is much work we can do. Each of us, even if individually we seem irrelevant, by doing our part, if all does, we do change things.

Hello Ezalor :)

Thank you for sharing your visions/dreams with us, they were very interesting to read!! With your reference to "death" being on either side of "the hanged man" and "justice", are you trying to say that one must enter a black-phase before attempting to reverse your polarities, and finally find balance or be judged after the initiation? If you implied a different meaning, would you mind explaining a bit?





Regarding Nibiru's vision:

Aye. Mostly. But I think your conclusion isn't clear.

What I was trying to say is that a mass enlightenment/pole-shift from living based/within our lower chakras to our higher chakras and/or a kundalini-awakening could happen simultaneously and spontaneously, as an alternative to the more destructive 2012 theories. This could even be seen as a form of 'rapture' for some who's bodies were not prepared for the new energy, as well as those individuals who chose to shed the physical form consciously and intentionally. As I could imagine the bodies/hourglasses disintegrating almost instantly, as their spirit bodies take on a new and powerful form of pure energy.



http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/imgpre10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=27&u=17569523)



This is what I was trying to show with the broken hour-glass picture (seen below) displayed immediately after the image of the complete kundalini/chakra awakening (shown above). The sands escaping the shattered hourglass were meant to represent the spirit finally freed from its material restraints. If you notice the final image I posted in the series was in the form of a figure-8 or infinity-symbol(hourglass turned on it's side). The same symbol that's above the head of the awakened "magician". I see this as representing the hour-glass/body/matter destroyed and then reformed into a state of infinite perfection. A perfect state of being, existing outside of the bounds and restrictions of the dimension of time. Hence the caterpillar entering into the left loop of the infinity and the butterfly escaping/emerging from the right side.

Please keep in mind that in the possible alternate reality where the vision existed, it held the power to potentially manifest on multiple levels simultaneously; and I feel this 'shift' (if it were to ever happen) could affect the individual, the earth, the universe, and perhaps even entire dimensions..

I hope this helps, and thanks again for your interest and explanation!


Conclusion:



http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/broken10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=32&u=17569523)


http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/dagaz14.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=35&u=17569523)



http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/17/56/95/23/rws-0110.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=22&u=17569523)

Nibiru
10-05-2012, 01:02 AM
And a song to sum it all up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyq8W6Fb8mA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyq8W6Fb8mA

Ghislain
10-05-2012, 08:22 AM
I feel where you are coming from Nibiru.

I feel the same thing...Can't put it into words, but I think you have about covered it for me.

Now we wait and see.

Lol my land line is down at the moment and I'm typing this
on my iPhone. It auto corrected Ghislain into This win :confused:

Not doing it now; maybe I miss spelled it.

Ghislain

Krisztian
10-07-2012, 07:16 PM
Please keep in mind that in the possible alternate reality where the vision existed, it held the power to potentially manifest on multiple levels simultaneously; and I feel this 'shift' (if it were to ever happen) could affect the individual, the earth, the universe, and perhaps even entire dimensions.

Nibiru: On Coast to Coast AM http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2012/10/06 last night (10-06-2012) Marshall Masters presented a strong case for a possible pole shift. Take a listen.

Nibiru
10-08-2012, 12:47 AM
Much appreciated!!

Thank you Krisztian and This Win :)

Andro
10-10-2012, 04:18 PM
What would be much more interesting to me, is what is going to happen AFTER the end of 2012, once we begin to enter UN-recorded time.

Also, no matter what some remote viewers claim to see beyond 2012, let me tell y'all that (according to my experience and that of many others), it's impossible to look beyond that date.

It's like a Big Nothing, a giant 'Blind Spot' that goes on from the end of 2012 until around 2200.

2200 reveals a 'Scorched Earth' left behind on the physical plane (the plane which we currently inhabit with our bodies).

This has been verified by myself, as well as by MANY shamans/psychic time travelers in a well coordinated experiment that took place a few years ago.

We are apparently entering UNCHARTED territory :)

III
10-10-2012, 05:08 PM
"Also, no matter what some remote viewers claim to see beyond 2012, let me tell y'all that (according to my experience and that of many others), it's impossible to look beyond that date.

It's like a Big Nothing, a giant 'Blind Spot' that goes on from the end of 2012 until around 2200. "

I wouldn't agree with that at all. However, I don't do "remote viewing" as such. I use different methods to "jaunt". One of my friends has been an instructor for remote viewing. Of course some of the remote viewing community disparages us "natural" (differently taught) wild shaman or alchemist types since we don't do exactly the same thing with the exact same precision. I can't say that I find the remote viewers impressive either. The understanding I see there is more like one sees in a "channeler" rather than the "becomer" of the divine. The synthesis of knowledge and understanding is wisdom. Remote viewers don't do that at all. Looking into that time isn't difficult at all, one merely needs to look in the correct way and place. It's like there is a change in "polarization" or maybe the "decoder fractal" changed and/or it could be a change of scale and perhaps another level of "speed of light" packing of the data. It is invisible until the needed adjustment is made. Remember, Simulachron 3 (Daniel F. Galouye made as the movie THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR) is unaware of Simulachron 2 just as Simulachron 4 is unaware of Simulachron 3.

As far as what I expect will happen at that time is literally a big nothing unless folks go crazy in fantasy expectation. As far as I can see the system reboots with the modified COS (Cosmic Operating System) in place that was installled on July 6, 1996 at about 6am EDT. On that date, I called a variety of friends to see how many noticed and remembered. Exactly one noticed the changes and greated me with "Welcome to the new millenium" immediately upon answering the phone. If more than a few remember this coming change or even notice it, I'll be surprised.

If the 143 nonillion (143,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) year AGE OF TRUE MAN as mentioned by the Mayans really starts then, great. But almost nobody will likely notice AND remember it if it plays out as I expect.

So, we can all meet up here on Dec 22 realizing that there are still a lot of holiday preparations to be made if we put them off in expectation or hope of change. Also we may then have a second toast of Grand Marnier before the flavor fades from the opened bottle.

Andro
10-10-2012, 05:53 PM
The understanding I see there is more like one sees in a "channeler" rather than the "becomer" of the divine.

What I'm talking about has nothing to do with either 'channeling' or 'becoming'. It's simply seeing (as in directly experiencing) what is/isn't, without labels.


Looking into that time isn't difficult at all

I assume that such a statement can only come from your personal experience, otherwise it would be mere speculation (or taking someone else's word for it).

So, in case you DID actually, personally look into that time (without difficulty), I would be genuinely curious to hear what you saw/experienced.


one merely needs to look in the correct way and place.

The key (to me) is where NOT to 'look', meaning not to 'look' into the stories our minds are telling us.


It is invisible until the needed adjustment is made.

Agreed.

Also, in my experience, some things are meant (by design) NOT to be seen from this level at this 'time', and this cannot change (at this time), for all the chanting in the world.


But almost nobody will likely notice AND remember it if it plays out as I expect.

With this, I am also in agreement - but this is already the topic of an entirely different conversation :)

Also, I don't really expect, but rather suspect :)

And if things play out as I suspect, there will eventually be no such thing as 'memory'. Nothing will be ever remembered, not a single moment.

(Memory is a function of time and space - so there cannot be memory if there is no T/S platform.)


It's like there is a change in "polarization"

Polarization is what generates the Tension Field which keeps Space in Place and Time in Line.

I'm really curious how it would be like with NO polarity/polarization/duality/pole-shifts/cycles/adjustments/gazillion year eras/time/space/memory/etc...

It's a shame (not really :p) that once in this state, I won't be able to know.

Enter the UN-Knowable!

(I've been meaning to start a thread about known - unknown - unknowable, so maybe this is the trigger to do it soon...)
_____________________________________________

PS: Just to clarify, in case something got lost in interpretation - I don't adhere to any type of Gloom & Doom scenario associated with that date.
I simply stated that in my personal experience (and that of many others), it is not available to any of us to see/experience into that 'time'.

This is all just my experience-based angle, and by no means conveyed as absolute truth :)

III
10-10-2012, 09:24 PM
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with either 'channeling' or 'becoming'. It's simply seeing (as in directly experiencing) what is/isn't, without labels.



I assume that such a statement can only come from your personal experience, otherwise it would be mere speculation (or taking someone else's word for it).

So, in case you DID actually, personally look into that time (without difficulty), I would be genuinely curious to hear what you saw/experienced.



The key (to me) is where NOT to 'look', meaning not to 'look' into the stories our minds are telling us.



Agreed.

Also, in my experience, some things are meant (by design) NOT to be seen from this level at this 'time', and this cannot change (at this time), for all the chanting in the world.



With this, I am also in agreement - but this is already the topic of an entirely different conversation :)

Also, I don't really expect, but rather suspect :)

And if things play out as I suspect, there will eventually be no such thing as 'memory'. Nothing will be ever remembered, not a single moment.

(Memory is a function of time and space - so there cannot be memory if there is no T/S platform.)



Polarization is what generates the Tension Field which keeps Space in Place and Time in Line.

I'm really curious how it would be like with NO polarity/polarization/duality/pole-shifts/cycles/adjustments/gazillion year eras/time/space/memory/etc...

It's a shame (not really :p) that once in this state, I won't be able to know.

Enter the UN-Knowable!

(I've been meaning to start a thread about known - unknown - unknowable, so maybe this is the trigger to do it soon...)
_____________________________________________

PS: Just to clarify, in case something got lost in interpretation - I don't adhere to any type of Gloom & Doom scenario associated with that date.
I simply stated that in my personal experience (and that of many others), it is not available to any of us to see/experience into that 'time'.

This is all just my experience-based angle, and by no means conveyed as absolute truth :)

Hi Androgynus,


What I'm talking about has nothing to do with either 'channeling' or 'becoming'. It's simply seeing (as in directly experiencing) what is/isn't, without labels.



When a person is "channeling" they may not remember what they said and are often aware of flow of information starting however it manifests. In the becoming ones "fractal" gets more and more similar to the "divine" and thereby resonating with it such information so it is just naturally known, experienced, remembered. It has nothing to do with labels and is a distinction of how the person is receiving the information.

I assume that such a statement can only come from your personal experience, otherwise it would be mere speculation (or taking someone else's word for it).


So, in case you DID actually, personally look into that time (without difficulty), I would be genuinely curious to hear what you saw/experienced.


First, let me say "with no more difficulty than usual". That is not the direction I normally pay attention. The things I find that I "see" in the future are all in MY future or that of someebody I'm working with, whether I see something in person or on a TV or reading the newspaper. So when I saw a large rocket explode on a TV screen in my memory, it wasn't until a few years later that I recognized the rocket exploding was the Challanger seeing it on TV exactly as I had remembered it. Same thing with the scene I saw of the towers falling. What I saw was closeup of a huge dust cloud from a helicopter that was so specific I identifed it when I saw it. I knew it was a terrorist attack but thought perhaps a small nuke from the mushroom cloud I saw with real building views for scale. I knew it was in early September, after labor day, at the end of summer. I didn't know the year. It happened 15 months later. When Jimmy the Greek got fired for chewing his foot off on live TV I turned to my wife and asked her "Why are they showing that now, he was fired 6 months ago for this incident". Nope, that was when it was happening. I have thousands of these things in my memory that come up from time to time. I have had about half of them resolved by seeing the event. I have had one I remember that can NEVER be true in this life as it involves my now dead daughter. Most things are inconsequential or mysterious without context with a not yet resolved status.

As the future often appears multivalued, some things happeing HERE prevent certain other things from happening HERE. So what I see is perhaps more likely than some other things I see so I will tell you what I can. 99% of everything I see is undatable and trival. I just know it is in the future because it hasn't happened yet. For instance, backing over a steel rake and destroying the tire, hasn't happened to me yet, but I'll recognize it when I see it. I always look under the car and behind the tires before starting it, so it will catch me by surprise, the one time I am in a hurry and don't look. Mostly I follwo my intuition and don't get into trouble. If my intuition says "don't turn that direction" I don't. When I go counter to these things via my "rational" mind, I get into trouble.

In the future, the next 20 some odd years anyway are going to have some nasty hurricanes. Flooded areas of New Orleans won't be rebuilt after it is seriously flooded for the third time in a huge hurricane. HOT summers in Utah. Both of my remaining children will survive me as will my grandchiildren. There is a new epidemic disease. If I can remember some obituaries I will mention them. The thing is if I watch more television news, I'm more likely to remember things that are non-local to me. I'm not a remote viewer. Sometimes an "entity" will bring things to me to be seen. Sometimes when working with people I will hook into their past and future and see these things along their lines.

The overall feeling, nothing I can put my finger on specifically, but perhaps an overall view is that there will be a lot fewer people a century from now, the height of our civilization, and that the change won't be pleasant.

The key (to me) is where NOT to 'look', meaning not to 'look' into the stories our minds are telling us.

Quite right, it isn't about the storyline. It isn't about justifying the story line or what one did. We get into real trouble if we believe our own lies.

And if things play out as I suspect, there will eventually be no such thing as 'memory'. Nothing will be ever remembered, not a single moment.

(Memory is a function of time and space - so there cannot be memory if there is no T/S platform.)


And on this one I will disagree with you 100%. Everybody who succeeds at establishing their being in local eternity outside of this local spacetime illusion will have memory. Within the spacetime illusion each "frame" contains the "memory" of "who" one is and "what" is going on and even poitns to the previous and next frames. However one can change to a completely different spacetime illusion string and in the next intsant remember a completely different past and future. It is only by proximity that the series of frames experienced appear to tell a story. There is nowhere in the manifext creation anywhere in the macrodimensional labyrinth that isn't in a chamber made up entire of information. In the stored state it is an instantious picutre of a state machine that when animated with consciousness produces story and memory. If a tree falls in the forest and there is no consciousness of the falling (nobody hears it) is there even a forest or tree?

Polarization is what generates the Tension Field which keeps Space in Place and Time in Line.

??????????????? They are not remotely in line.

I'm really curious how it would be like with NO polarity/polarization/duality/pole-shifts/cycles/adjustments/gazillion year eras/time/space/memory/etc...

It's a shame (not really :p) that once in this state, I won't be able to know.

Enter the UN-Knowable!

I would suggest that pole-shifts are totally an illusion within the "Earth" series of chambers and have no bearing on anything at all beyond a certain mythology. Memory will become better than ever. Polarization will continue as within some of many variations possible within the labyrinth. Cycles are built into the labyrinth. I think that the gazillion year cycle is more symbolic rather than anything possible within spacetime. It's like asking "how long was gorundhog day" in the movie.

PS: Just to clarify, in case something got lost in interpretation - I don't adhere to any type of Gloom & Doom scenario associated with that date.
I simply stated that in my personal experience (and that of many others), it is not available to any of us to see/experience into that 'time'.

Perhaps persons who can't see into that place have not yet establshed their existance there. I don't see into it any better or worse than any other period.

Andro
10-10-2012, 09:51 PM
Thanks for elaborating!

III
10-10-2012, 10:26 PM
I edited a couple of things since your post. Just as well as I lost the whole thing a paragraph after what I had saved and had to do over.

Andro
10-10-2012, 10:33 PM
And on this one I will disagree with you 100%. Everybody who succeeds at establishing their being in local eternity outside of this local spacetime illusion will have memory. Within the spacetime illusion each "frame" contains the "memory" of "who" one is and "what" is going on and even poitns to the previous and next frames. However one can change to a completely different spacetime illusion string and in the next intsant remember a completely different past and future. It is only by proximity that the series of frames experienced appear to tell a story.

I never said anything about changing to a different space-time illusion. Enough of all those dead-end, infinite variation time loops :)

I am talking about NO Time-Space illusion AT ALL. Please re-read.


I lost the whole thing a paragraph after what I had saved and had to do over.

The above quote somehow reflects the 'Never-Ending Story' paradigm, bound to the Sysiphian 'Solve & Coagula' cycles.

I am talking about something completely different (as opposed to different variations on the same theme).

What I am talking about is no time, no space, no story, nothing to be remembered. 100% Pure Experience, Zero Memory. I even think there are names for that in some ancient traditions...


There is nowhere in the manifext creation anywhere in the macrodimensional labyrinth that isn't in a chamber made up entire of information.

This reminds me of the saying 'Thinking outside the box' (outside the chamber/s, in this case).


??????????????? They are not remotely in line.

There are many ways to draw (and navigate) a line, but a line is still a line.


Perhaps persons who can't see into that place have not yet establshed their existance there. I don't see into it any better or worse than any other period.

Or perhaps some 'persons' no longer need an existence 'there', or anywhere for that matter (existence as we know it).

I have astrally time traveled to many timeline 'zones', and all I'm saying is that the 2012-2200 period is an unwritten one from my point of view ('unwritten' - for lack of a better term).

I fully understand that your perspective/experience is different than mine. I'm sure there are reasons for that.


If a tree falls in the forest and there is no consciousness of the falling (nobody hears it) is there even a forest or tree?

That's the beautiful paradox of the unknowable.

The tree 'is' there, it does 'fall', it is 'heard' - but all this is impossible to be known, because the experience contains all that it needs in itself and needs no storyline/memory/consciousness to validate it, animate it or contextualize it.

It is, for all intents and purposes, truly & fully DEAD, UN-Existing - yet within a constant state of bliss.

I think some call it 'Eternal Present', which, by definition, can not be known (UN-knowable).

Time, space, memory, storage/story lines, information chambers, etc - would only be impediments to this somehow paradoxical state.

I realize that this is not likely to make much sense to a lot of people :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have much more to say on this, and this is starting to wander towards a different kind of thread. I'll sort it out later :)

III
10-10-2012, 11:09 PM
I never said anything about changing to a different space-time illusion. Enough of all those dead-end, infinite variation time loops:)

I am talking about NO Time-Space illusion AT ALL. Please re-read.

What I am talking about is no time, no space, no story, nothing to be remembered. 100% Pure Experience, Zero Memory. I even think there are names for that in some ancient traditions...



This reminds me of the saying 'Thinking outside the box' (outside the chamber/s, in this case).



That's the beautiful paradox of the unknowable.

The tree 'is' there, it does 'fall', it is 'heard' - but all this is impossible to be known, because the experience contains all that it needs in itself and needs no storyline/memory/consciousness to validate it, animate it or contextualize it.

It is, for all intents and purposes, truly & fully DEAD, UN-Existing - yet within a constant state of bliss.

I think some call it 'Eternal Present', which, by definition, can not be known (UN-knowable).

Time, space, memory, storage/story lines, information chambers, etc - would only be impediments to this somehow paradoxical state.

I realize that this is not likely to make much sense to a lot of people :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have much more to say on this, and this is starting to wander towards a different kind of thread. I'll sort it out next morning :)



I never said anything about changing to a different space-time illusion. Enough of all those dead-end, infinite variation time loops:)

I am talking about NO Time-Space illusion AT ALL. Please re-read.

What I am talking about is no time, no space, no story, nothing to be remembered. 100% Pure Experience, Zero Memory. I even think there are names for that in some ancient traditions...

Clearly we have a failure to communicate here... When in local eternity spacetime can be seen as a pearl necklace, each pearl being a single frame of spacetime experience. One can enter and leave the spacetime at any time in the life. Outside of spacetime one can remember sequence though there is no "time". When one enters for intance Samadhi, any of many varieties, there is no sense of passage of time and one is wholely in the NOW. It is a LEARNED technique to bring back memory from eternal time or NOW to normal spacetime. It doesn't alter the experience. It is all in the transition. E.J. Gold addresses the problem in LIFE IN THE LABYRINTH in the chapter "Data Retreival In the Higher Dimensions".



This reminds me of the saying 'Thinking outside the box' (outside the chamber/s, in this case).


Soooo, when this "box" is a 16+ dimensional klein bottle how does one get outside? Where is the outside of a klein bottle? If you can go there, I would be pleased to go there with you. At the highest level there is only one chamber containing all and everything and nothing at all. The Klein bottle contains itself, recursively I might suggest, because it isn't itteratively.


I have much more to say on this, and this is starting to wander towards a different kind of thread. I'll sort it out next morning

You bet. Have fun.

Ghislain
10-10-2012, 11:22 PM
III & Androgynus

Reading through both your posts as in the extract and comments of III's post it would appear that the
unknowability of the period, post 2012, may be there for exactly that reason, it is unknowable; the future
or fate of a person has not been written beyond that point. It may be a point where each one of us can
decide, consciously or unconsciously, on the direction we wish to continue from that point on...
an introduction of a second first chapter so to speak.

Perhaps that is why as many people as possible need to be considering what future of the human
community they would be most comfortable with...the one we have now or one of peace, compassion,
understanding and love for our fellow man...just an example...add your own introduction if you wish.

What a great responsibility if that is correct. Who knows when a chance like that may come around again
and what would be the consequence of getting it wrong...if there can be a right or wrong.

Could this be the second coming, not a coming of a being, but an era?

Ghislain

Andro
10-10-2012, 11:36 PM
Could this be the second coming, not a coming of a being, but an era?

Maybe even more than an era. Maybe an entirely new 'design', instead of more of the same...

This is (again) my own philosophical perspective, since I am not able to see beyond 2012. (unlike other time periods, which I did visit astrally)

Nibiru
10-12-2012, 02:05 AM
...the future or fate of a person has not been written beyond that point. It may be a point where each one of us can
decide, consciously or unconsciously, on the direction we wish to continue from that point on...
an introduction of a second first chapter so to speak.

Perhaps that is why as many people as possible need to be considering what future of the human
community they would be most comfortable with...the one we have now or one of peace, compassion,
understanding and love for our fellow man...just an example...add your own introduction if you wish.

What a great responsibility if that is correct. Who knows when a chance like that may come around again
and what would be the consequence of getting it wrong...if there can be a right or wrong.

Could this be the second coming, not a coming of a being, but an era?

Ghislain


I feel that this may be what is coming, the ability to recreate the Universal "Laws" as we see fit. Our turn at playing the gods and making the playing field into our image. Why cant we be unbound and free, while at the same time remembering why this IS such an amazing experience? Who says it has to be a paradox or impossible to have the best of both worlds?? "These are the rules and the way it is.." But why does it have to be that way?? Why cant we live a paradox?? Who is writing these rules?? Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???





Soooo, when this "box" is a 16+ dimensional klein bottle how does one get outside? Where is the outside of a klein bottle? If you can go there, I would be pleased to go there with you. At the highest level there is only one chamber containing all and everything and nothing at all. The Klein bottle contains itself, recursively I might suggest, because it isn't itteratively.

I know I'm speaking for Androgynus, so please correct me if I'm mistaken.. I think that what Androgynus is trying to say, is that he's fed-up and annoyed with the 'multidimensional klein bottle' and would prefer to see it broken/shattered.


Also we may then have a second toast of Grand Marnier before the flavor fades from the opened bottle.
Oh :) and I too look forward to the toasting another glass of orange infused Cognac following the night of December 21 and experiencing how the 'flavor' may of changed or matured. Assuming that there is a glass left to toast..

III
10-12-2012, 06:43 AM
I feel that this may be what is coming, the ability to recreate the Universal "Laws" as we see fit. Our turn at playing the gods and making the playing field into our image. Why cant we be unbound and free, while at the same time remembering why this IS such an amazing experience? Who says it has to be a paradox or impossible to have the best of both worlds?? "These are the rules and the way it is.." But why does it have to be that way?? Why cant we live a paradox?? Who is writing these rules?? Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???

I know I'm speaking for Androgynus, so please correct me if I'm mistaken.. I think that what Androgynus is trying to say, is that he's fed-up and annoyed with the 'multidimensional klein bottle' and would prefer to see it broken/shattered.


Oh :) and I too look forward to the toasting another glass of orange infused Cognac following the night of December 21 and experiencing how the 'flavor' may of changed or matured. Assuming that there is a glass left to toast..


Hi Nibiru,

]I feel that this may be what is coming, the ability to recreate the Universal "Laws" as we see fit. Our turn at playing the gods and making the playing field into our image. Why cant we be unbound and free, while at the same time remembering why this IS such an amazing experience? Who says it has to be a paradox or impossible to have the best of both worlds?? "These are the rules and the way it is.." But why does it have to be that way?? Why cant we live a paradox?? Who is writing these rules?? Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???

The whole structure has evolved itself collectively via all the individuals playing in their various ways. The rules, really are more of a pragmatic description of how things work, developed via all sorts of Yogis, alchemists, shamans and other such shaping the metaphysics.

Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???

Have you the knowledge to know how to make it do so? How do you know it doesn't? Would that make for a functional system?

Besides, it's a whole lot easier to get around in a regular and reasonably predictable system.

Krisztian
10-13-2012, 12:13 AM
One must be careful. No era, realm nor reality is the key, the importance rests in the evolution of the soul. If one cannot distill the wisdom learned in one [reality], why say the other would be anybetter? Like the American saying goes: 'No grass is greener on the other side'. No era, realm nor reality can save a soul. That's not spiritual wisdom, that's human misery, depression, mania, instability within, etc.

"2012" for many - if you listen carefully to what people say - is the hope to be "saved". Like whether one is in communism, democracy, dictatorship, Elizabethan era, or whatever else, one needs to create a reality that support spiritual evolution and find the happiness therein. I grew up in communism, and I absolutely loved it! I am not a communist but happiness rests with us.

If one cannot enjoy this reality, then at the core of our being, it is our fault.

I hesitated posting in this Thread because people just get angry, they "react", get triggered. They're not angry at other people, or places, things, countries, etc., they're angry at themselves because they haven't created a reality that's happy. . . . But the truth stands, 'Heaven is already here', no reality will ever come and wash away the pain, that's the job left for a brave soul that rises beyond it's own misery.

III
10-13-2012, 03:25 AM
One must be careful. No era, realm nor reality is the key, the importance rests in the evolution of the soul. If one cannot distill the wisdom learned in one [reality], why say the other would be anybetter? Like the American saying goes: 'No grass is greener on the other side'. No era, realm nor reality can save a soul. That's not spiritual wisdom, that's human misery, depression, mania, instability within, etc.

"2012" for many - if you listen carefully to what people say - is the hope to be "saved". Like whether one is in communism, democracy, dictatorship, Elizabethan era, or whatever else, one needs to create a reality that support spiritual evolution and find the happiness therein. I grew up in communism, and I absolutely loved it! I am not a communist but happiness rests with us.

If one cannot enjoy this reality, then at the core of our being, it is our fault.

I hesitated posting in this Thread because people just get angry, they "react", get triggered. They're not angry at other people, or places, things, countries, etc., they're angry at themselves because they haven't created a reality that's happy. . . . But the truth stands, 'Heaven is already here', no reality will ever come and wash away the pain, that's the job left for a brave soul that rises beyond it's own misery.

Hi Krisztian,


I hesitated posting in this Thread because people just get angry, they "react", get triggered. They're not angry at other people, or places, things, countries, etc., they're angry at themselves because they haven't created a reality that's happy. . .

I hope nobody gets angry over this though quite obviously agreement won't be 100%. I'm not sure "happy" is an adequate word. For a long time I have tended towards using "satisfaction" or something like that. But then this is all hair splitting.


But the truth stands, 'Heaven is already here', no reality will ever come and wash away the pain, that's the job left for a brave soul that rises beyond it's own misery

more hair splitting -
Personally, I do not equate "Heaven" with "The Kingdom" or God(dess) consciousness in whatever form.

As was said in the Gospel of Thomas - "The kingdom is at hand".

It's all around us. It is everything we see, eat, breath, perceive in any and every way. It is the world pulled over our eyes. All meanings and understandings are our own.

"When 2 are gathered in My Name there so am I" (Christ consciousness, Buddha consciousness, Krishna Consciousness, Goddess Consciousness, God Consciousness,"The Kingdom" etc). I might suggest that "Logos" might be a more accurate word than "Name". In any case when 2 or more gather in that "name/word" is literally the same chamber, defined as the result of Logos (sort of), there is an awareness of the "third" consciousness there, the living god(dess). It is of the form of Shiva UNION Shakti >> Brahman. It is there for all who genuinely open their hearts in cooperation with another in seeking communion. I'm not going to argue what that experience means here.

BE IN LOVE.

Krisztian
10-13-2012, 04:26 AM
But then this is all hair splitting.

more hair splitting




Well, if it's not "triggering" then why the sarcasm?

III
10-13-2012, 06:16 AM
Well, if it's not "triggering" then why the sarcasm?

Hi Krisztian,

In my understanding of having esoteric philsophical dialog a purpose is to be able to negotiate meaning, otherwise mutual understanding is very unlikely to occur. I'm not in the least triggerred. I was agreeing with you while trying to clarify, perhaps, or at least home in on, meaning. As no sarcasm at all was intended and you choose to react as if sarcasm was intended, why have you such a chip on your shoulder that you have to react to somebody agreeing with you with minor nueances of meaning difference? You are certainly free to percevie it as you desire but if you are always looking for sarcasm you will likely always find it.

Nibiru
10-13-2012, 08:15 PM
Hi Nibiru,

]I feel that this may be what is coming, the ability to recreate the Universal "Laws" as we see fit. Our turn at playing the gods and making the playing field into our image. Why cant we be unbound and free, while at the same time remembering why this IS such an amazing experience? Who says it has to be a paradox or impossible to have the best of both worlds?? "These are the rules and the way it is.." But why does it have to be that way?? Why cant we live a paradox?? Who is writing these rules?? Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???

The whole structure has evolved itself collectively via all the individuals playing in their various ways. The rules, really are more of a pragmatic description of how things work, developed via all sorts of Yogis, alchemists, shamans and other such shaping the metaphysics.

Why cant my 'reality' resemble abstract art???

Have you the knowledge to know how to make it do so? How do you know it doesn't? Would that make for a functional system?

Besides, it's a whole lot easier to get around in a regular and reasonably predictable system.



Hello III :)


The rules, really are more of a pragmatic description of how things work, developed via all sorts of Yogis, alchemists, shamans and other such shaping the metaphysics.

Isn't the pragmatic description of how things now appear to work also part of specification/bondage of the fluid nature of reality? Is it not this attention to detail that is the cause of our apparent imprisonment to the restraints of Saturn. The descriptions may be what is keeping us bound and creating the duality of the creationists vs the nihilists. I would like to see everyone's description become so fluid that the descriptions hold no holding power. Leaving a slight amount of substance, but lacking the fixed structure. Malleability is what I hope for..


Have you the knowledge to know how to make it do so? How do you know it doesn't? Would that make for a functional system?

Perhaps part of me does possess this knowledge and power, this is who I feel that I'm beginning to rediscover lately. I would not mind if my world were only semi-functional, I would prefer a fluid experience of existence in a lucid state.


I'd also like to point out to everyone that I am not angry about anything that I'm attempting to portray with my ravings. I'm just trying to open people up to the possibility of a synthesis of the two opposing philosophies of creationism and nihilism, or Shiva and Brahma. I'm just tired of the 'wars' where no one ever wins. I'm beginning to wonder why almost every game has to have a winner and a looser. Why cant games be played simply to experience the play?? This is why we have some who want to destroy the 'hourglass', and others who want to keep turning it over in an endless set of repetitions. I am tired of us being told that we should have to choose, or that we cant have our cake and eat it. If we're fed-up with 'time' restraining us, then rather than destroy time, why not just temporally slow it down or speed it up to the point that it no longer is able to keep us bound? The space between...

Nibiru
10-13-2012, 09:42 PM
In short, I would like to someday see this eternal 'war' transmuted into a fluid dance.

III
10-13-2012, 11:15 PM
Hello III :)



Isn't the pragmatic description of how things now appear to work also part of specification/bondage of the fluid nature of reality? Is it not this attention to detail that is the cause of our apparent imprisonment to the restraints of Saturn. The descriptions may be what is keeping us bound and creating the duality of the creationists vs the nihilists. I would like to see everyone's description become so fluid that the descriptions hold no holding power. Leaving a slight amount of substance, but lacking the fixed structure. Malleability is what I hope for..



Perhaps part of me does possess this knowledge and power, this is who I feel that I'm beginning to rediscover lately. I would not mind if my world were only semi-functional, I would prefer a fluid experience of existence in a lucid state.


I'd also like to point out to everyone that I am not angry about anything that I'm attempting to portray with my ravings. I'm just trying to open people up to the possibility of a synthesis of the two opposing philosophies of creationism and nihilism, or Shiva and Brahma. I'm just tired of the 'wars' where no one ever wins. I'm beginning to wonder why almost every game has to have a winner and a looser. Why cant games be played simply to experience the play?? This is why we have some who want to destroy the 'hourglass', and others who want to keep turning it over in an endless set of repetitions. I am tired of us being told that we should have to choose, or that we cant have our cake and eat it. If we're fed-up with 'time' restraining us, then rather than destroy time, why not just temporally slow it down or speed it up to the point that it no longer is able to keep us bound? The space between...


Isn't the pragmatic description of how things now appear to work also part of specification/bondage of the fluid nature of reality? Is it not this attention to detail that is the cause of our apparent imprisonment to the restraints of Saturn. The descriptions may be what is keeping us bound and creating the duality of the creationists vs the nihilists.

I am very thoroughly a non-dualist. Our language being as it is really isn't all that suitable for a non-dualist. The memes themselves are often inherently dualist. I'll make my best effort to approximate what I hope to convey. Speaking of the nature of the creation as a multidimensional fractal of energy doesn't in any way give it meaning. That this "energy" might also be called "consciousness" still doesn't really assign meaning. EJ Gold states it that we have consciousness and that there is no escape from that as it is creation itself, consciousness. How we interpret that consciousness, what is done or perceived with that consciousness etc are the choices we might have. So when one is conscious, one can be conscious of nothing, which leaves no traces and no memory. Some fragments of consciousness maintain that so little consciousness that it is merely conscuiousness of existance ought to be all there is and sufficient. There are those other fragments of consciousness that maintain that the consciousness ought to just be in undifferentiated bliss eternally. Other fragments of consciousness indicate that one can grow one's conasciousness larger and develop certain traits such as intellignece which allows us to "do", in the development and evolution of this consciousness

Is it not this attention to detail that is the cause of our apparent imprisonment to the restraints of Saturn

I honestly have no idea of what you mean by "Saturn", imprisonment or restraints.

EJ Gold says to Consider the possibility that all of "this", what we perceive as "reality" is purely for enetertainment as an escape from eternally boring eternity in which absolutely nothing happens. Eternal "bliss" of being in the non-manifest doesn't make one not conscious. It's just that there is nothing to be conscious of.

The system, whatever it is and however it might be described, allows us to have an active consciousness that can consider anything imaginable. Attention to "detail" is difficult to know what that means. If one looks at atoms and atomic binding forces one sees how something is at the atomic level. However, when perceived on a different level one migh assign meaning to these patterns of energy and call it a rare steak with sauteed onions and baked potato.

So saying that the illusions of spacetime, personality, life stories etc are all superimposed on a 16 dimensional pattern of consciousness and dependent upon the fragment of consciousness observing things, and have no inherent meaning or anything else, allows much freedom to see it any way that the fragment of consciousness can arrange it into.

So my preference to see the consciousness arranged so that one can experience different parts of it with "something" seeming to happen here and there, with the ability to alter the natures of ones consciousness, to experience larger pieces of consciousness by joining in cooperation with another fragment such as my partner to experience what appears to be the divine withing this consciousness, and to experience "life" itself which is "something happening" rather than be conscious of absolutely nothing for eternity seems worthwhile to me. How many nonillion years of experience will I find entertaining? I have no idea. I still find "life" entertaining, interesting, enjoyable
.
And I find ecstatic sex with a partner that allows me to grow and evolve opening up billions and billions of unique lives to the experience of my being to be a worthwhile way to spend eternity, especailly when the alternative is NO THING to perceive, think or experience. In GROUNDHOG DAY the questions is asked "So this is how you spend eternity?"

I'm just tired of the 'wars' where no one ever wins.

What wars? I assume you are speaking metaphorically as opposed to shoot em up wars with heavy metal.

I'm beginning to wonder why almost every game has to have a winner and a looser. Why cant games be played simply to experience the play??

That really depends upon the players. A few years ago we invited a new player to join our work group. Instead of playing cooperatively to further knowledge and evolution he choose to play it competiviely, trying to capture the priestess and trick her into marrying him and running off with him, destrying the work group in the process. He is history and we both evolved. He lost because he set it up as a binary win/lose by the way he chose to play it. If it is played as a multi-valued cooperative game nobody loses.

This is why we have some who want to destroy the 'hourglass', and others who want to keep turning it over in an endless set of repetitions. I am tired of us being told that we should have to choose, or that we cant have our cake and eat it.

I don't understand. What hourglass, what set of repititions. What cake whether eaten or not?


I would like to see everyone's description become so fluid that the descriptions hold no holding power. Leaving a slight amount of substance, but lacking the fixed structure. Malleability is what I hope for..

Again, I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

If we're fed-up with 'time' restraining us, then rather than destroy time, why not just temporally slow it down or speed it up to the point that it no longer is able to keep us bound

Time is an illusion. One can be in a "frozen" frame. Nothing happens. No perception of time. One can move faster or slow through frames. However, the "difference" between one frame and the next remains constant no matter how fast ot slow one traverses them. One can lift right out of the frame and see time as a series of frames fading off into eternity. They are fixed and stationairy. Again, I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps you need to explain your underlying assumptions that get you to this point.

III
10-14-2012, 12:49 AM
As far as if times between 2012 and 2200 can be remote viewed and the atatement that remove viewers can't view that area is a most by Krisztian.



http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3027-2050

To cut to the point, I was able to view myself in 2050, to my great surprise. I was also very surprised 'to see' how humanity was developing, I mean, I saw places, communities, etc., covered with large trees, people lived under protection, or should I say, houses were integrated into Mother Nature. The building was organic, it also had consciousness in-bedded in it's fabric. People seemed happy. I also saw very 'strange' technology (that I couldn't understand after the session was over, when the analytical side clicked on). They had a sort of a large chair with what seemed as a satellite-dish behind the head. It was I assume a telepathic phone. It reminded me of a Plate from Book of Lambspring, the king sitting on his throne. I guess you sit on it, and you can dialogue directly with family members in other towns, it amplifies and focusses you. Humanity was dispersed. Less people alive.

Ezalor
11-21-2012, 09:06 PM
First of all, my apologies for disappearing without ever replying. That's how I am: I always concentrate on one particular field of life, and the rest goes neglected, so I always keep showing up and disappearing everywhere.


With your reference to "death" being on either side of "the hanged man" and "justice", are you trying to say that one must enter a black-phase before attempting to reverse your polarities, and finally find balance or be judged after the initiation? If you implied a different meaning, would you mind explaining a bit?
I think the real brilliance of the Tarot lies in that while in one hand it is pretty clearly defined, as all the cards are very characteristic, in the same time it us undefined as well. As such, it embodies the existence of two opposites simultaneously, merging them without the two negating each other (which is analogous to androgynous nature).

So, the tarot, while it's defined, clear and characteristic, in the same time undefined, smooth and open-ended. Once you stop interpreting the cards rigidly, and precept the deck as the flow of a river, you can embrace this flow - and from that point on, every card has a totally unique meaning, every time, in every case, for every person and fro every application. In other words, the reading is not the relation of the cards to the formation and the question, but the relation of your whole entity with all its aspect, with the Tarot's whole entity with all its aspects. Every reading thus, is a complete microcosms, a complete reality, a completely unique, unrepairable reflection of the Universe.

And that's why I don't attempt to answer your question about the meaning - because there is no meaning. There is only the tarot, and the person, and the result of the interaction is unique in every case. Those cards will tell a completely different story to every person looking at them.

Of course, I could outline generic associations, generally accepted understandings, symbology and so on, but it would only mislead the person from finding their own unique understanding and message, their own relfection. ;)



We are apparently entering UNCHARTED territory
Both in the world, and within ourselves.


I will probably reply to some other points later.


Ps.: The future didn't happen yet. Even with predictions, it is uncertain. We will only know, when we are there. (Especially since time as such is an illusion created by our imperfect perception of "change".)

Krisztian
11-23-2012, 02:31 AM
As far as if times between 2012 and 2200 can be remote viewed and the atatement that remove viewers can't view that area is a most by Krisztian.

What I see and feel afoot regarding 2012 is something akin to the 'quickening'. I still maintain that it's a 'cleansing process', I add no religious connotations to that word. I see the separation of the world into two: one being the movement 'upward', a place closer to our own identity; the second, being a place of sort that gets to relive, re-experience the cycle that just finished. One cycle ends, the other begins; each person, depending on their state of learning, choice, etc., gets to decide where they belong. Something like the weighing of soul against a feather?

Either place will do. Some graduates, others don't. Why does everybody have to graduate? Just because someone graduates it doesn't mean it's a better choice. The one that moves onward, upward, or whatever symbolism one wants to use herein, starts yet another cosmic cycle with it's own rotation, involving other form of learning, one that is more accelerated, dealing with different 'themes' of emotions, relationships, etc.

I see people shift in and out daily, between these two states. The energy, it would seem, can be too overwhelming to integrate for some, so one can only go so far. No judgment involved. No one gets left behind. There was in recent times, a writer calling himself Hidden_Hand who also declared such sentiments in another Forum.

solomon levi
11-23-2012, 04:32 AM
What I see and feel afoot regarding 2012 is something akin to the 'quickening'. I still maintain that it's a 'cleansing process', I add no religious connotations to that word. I see the separation of the world into two: one being the movement 'upward', a place closer to our own identity; the second, being a place of sort that gets to relive, re-experience the cycle that just finished. One cycle ends, the other begins; each person, depending on their state of learning, choice, etc., gets to decide where they belong. Something like the weighing of soul against a feather?

Either place will do. Some graduates, others don't. Why does everybody have to graduate? Just because someone graduates it doesn't mean it's a better choice. The one that moves onward, upward, or whatever symbolism one wants to use herein, starts yet another cosmic cycle with it's own rotation, involving other form of learning, one that is more accelerated, dealing with different 'themes' of emotions, relationships, etc.

I see people shift in and out daily, between these two states. The energy, it would seem, can be too overwhelming to integrate for some, so one can only go so far. No judgment involved. No one gets left behind. There was in recent times, a writer calling himself Hidden_Hand who also declared such sentiments in another Forum.

I feel quite similarly about it all. I generically agree with this outline Krisztian.
I feel, like Ezalor said, it is yet undefined.
I too see people shifting in and out daily.
What the "graduates" and the "summer schoolers" will experience, I don't know...
it will be an option between individual and collective though, I feel... for instance, the
"group" of graduates or summer schoolers will have unique individual experiences and options
within the collective option. That is how it always is, I see. :)

Krisztian
11-23-2012, 04:25 PM
I feel quite similarly about it all. I generically agree with this outline Krisztian.
I feel, like Ezalor said, it is yet undefined. I too see people shifting in and out daily. What the "graduates" and the "summer schoolers" will experience, I don't know... it will be an option between individual and collective though, I feel... for instance, the "group" of graduates or summer schoolers will have unique individual experiences and options within the collective option. That is how it always is, I see. :)

It would be like a difference in frequency. Seamlessly two "worlds" are divided, like a space life-boat, Earth is. It would seem like the same Earths, but the inhabitants get sorted out based on where they be in their own learning and spiritual evolution. The celestial 'Fisherman' is back, nets out those fish that's ripe, those that need more growth remain in, reference to world mythology.

The only aspect of it I'm not certain about is involving 'memory'! Do the memory of those that repeat the cycle get wiped out, so they may experience it fresh again? Does a major physical catastrophic pole shift wipe out energetically memory? If yes, does that remain in our ancestral soul memory as trauma (like the Deluge was)

The key is love in all this transition, the frequency key. Fear will keep humans chained to the descending Earth, to the one that will repeat this last cycle.

It's just my take. What say others?

zoas23
11-23-2012, 08:15 PM
As a child I asked, “where does the universe end; even if at a brick wall then what was beyond the
brick wall?” Is it a bubble floating in infinity or infinity+1? Is it circular returning to its own
beginning? Could infinity+1 actually be 1?

A friend who is not a mystic, but a scientist, a physicist, told me some things about physics that blow his mind.

He told me that the universe is infinite... and also that it is expanding. He said that the interesting thing isn't really the expansion of the infinite, but the "zone" in wich the universe is expanding, a zone that is "not universe", which is in theory a zone without space-time and without universe.

solomon levi
11-23-2012, 08:28 PM
It would be like a difference in frequency. Seamlessly two "worlds" are divided, like a space life-boat, Earth is. It would seem like the same Earths, but the inhabitants get sorted out based on where they be in their own learning and spiritual evolution. The celestial 'Fisherman' is back, nets out those fish that's ripe, those that need more growth remain in, reference to world mythology.

The only aspect of it I'm not certain about is involving 'memory'! Do the memory of those that repeat the cycle get wiped out, so they may experience it fresh again? Does a major physical catastrophic pole shift wipe out energetically memory? If yes, does that remain in our ancestral soul memory as trauma (like the Deluge was)

The key is love in all this transition, the frequency key. Fear will keep humans chained to the descending Earth, to the one that will repeat this last cycle.

It's just my take. What say others?

Well, you won't be in the group of repeaters that gets their memory wiped out.
I think we should be open to mass asensions as well.
There's really so many options, more than two.
Earth may not change at all.
Earth may go through massive changes.
All kinds of possible portals may open/are opening.
Some go to other star systems, some to inner earth, some to earth's twin world, some to afterlifes...
it's all about alignment/frequency signature.
Earth may evolve and groups of people with it - or we may just go through a wormhole that comes
out in a future version of earth... it depends how magical people are, how intentional.
The Rapture is happening... Armageddon is happening for some... The end of the world for some...
Ascension for some... Everything is happening.
The only difference than normal, perhaps, is the speed at which things are occurring - this could be
very helpful for some and very dangerous for some, depending on what they are speeding towards,
what they are aligned with.
This is what I see and feel.

III
11-23-2012, 10:20 PM
It would be like a difference in frequency. Seamlessly two "worlds" are divided, like a space life-boat, Earth is. It would seem like the same Earths, but the inhabitants get sorted out based on where they be in their own learning and spiritual evolution. The celestial 'Fisherman' is back, nets out those fish that's ripe, those that need more growth remain in, reference to world mythology.


The only aspect of it I'm not certain about is involving 'memory'! Do the memory of those that repeat the cycle get wiped out, so they may experience it fresh again? Does a major physical catastrophic pole shift wipe out energetically memory? If yes, does that remain in our ancestral soul memory as trauma (like the Deluge was)

The key is love in all this transition, the frequency key. Fear will keep humans chained to the descending Earth, to the one that will repeat this last cycle.

It's just my take. What say others?



It would be like a difference in frequency. Seamlessly two "worlds" are divided, like a space life-boat, Earth is. It would seem like the same Earths, but the inhabitants get sorted out based on where they be in their own learning and spiritual evolution. The celestial 'Fisherman' is back, nets out those fish that's ripe, those that need more growth remain in, reference to world mythology.


You and most others here appear to speak of and think of Earth as this solid thing. Each person already is seeing whatever version of Earth that their filters/parameters are set to show them. Again it comes back to "Where is here"? and maybe also "What is here?". I don't mean in heaven or hell kinds of terms. So you think this is "air" you breath? In a virtual world each person is already playing in their perception of the world which is quite different. I live in a world of seeing people living in a sea of living energy, that they twitch and change expressions, make spontaneous mudras, say things suddenly with total honesty and not remember saying that. A person can spend an entire 6 hour ritual, participate fully and consciously and yet remember none of it when they pop out of the invoked NOW and wonder why it ended so quickly. Then the next time they are back in that chamber, they can remember all the other times there too. Chambers perceived in NOW are very different from what is perceived as this word though they can be entire coincident. People of course see a whole spectrum of Earths, each person in their own custom version. It is very difficult coming into sync with another person to share the same reality.

I'm non-dualist. In the Gospel of Thomas, "the kingdom is at hand". Those who choose to live in the sea of wisdom, knowing, understanding feeling etc, a structure of LOVE that can live a far richer life even knowing it is and always has been "maya", a dream, an illusion.


The only aspect of it I'm not certain about is involving 'memory'! Do the memory of those that repeat the cycle get wiped out, so they may experience it fresh again? Does a major physical catastrophic pole shift wipe out energetically memory? If yes, does that remain in our ancestral soul memory as trauma (like the Deluge was)

People are endlessly repeating cycles already without remembering them. That is the total normal. Memory of what we think our past is can be experienced as residing in the chamber, not carried with us as something we accumulate. EJ Gold has expressed the idea that we each already are experiencing Eternal life in the worst possible way, with no memory of it at all. Memory we "leave" in a. The problem is really more of a technical problem. All time exists in a single instant. By cutting that instant into lots of different details, moving through a sequence of details we have the illusion of time. All of the subdivided moments taken at once is white noise and white light. So there has to be some way to smaller sets of subdivided moments to make sense out of any of it. It is us that try to make sense of things.

So, if looking at people it can be seen that they have built up layer upon layer of blocks to that flow of information. I really don't want to know my neighbors that well. I don't care or want to know when they are having sex or hemorhoids or fights or whatever. Some cities are a lot more painful as a background. I don't want to continously remember all my deaths, childrens deaths and so on. So we are all living in a small versions of a possible world. What we don't block out, which is terribly imprecise is what we have to work with. Typically people try to block off things that make them look bad in their own minds. This ends up taking vast areas of themsleves and setting them off limits. This ends up giving each person the specific world as they have customized it. The basic "story line" that serves as background we can't change. What we can change is the story line of our part by changing our reactions and choices and by growing and evolving the definition of "self". Some remember enough to learn more rapid;y.

But whatever happens in the storyline of Earth polar jumping jacks or whatever, it has no effect on the storage of our beings. What does impair is how many lives are available for living at what levels of complexity.

Every level of understanding is accomodated in the system as it exists Some folks are getting ruptured, those approaching threshholds may be full of doom and gloom "end coming" ideas.

Some have entered the "kingdom" and some will do so.

Andro
11-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Well, you won't be in the group of repeaters that gets their memory wiped out.

How can anyone really know this, let alone for someone else?

Besides, the 'criteria' for 'non-repeaters' may be quite different from what we may imagine from within our immersed state, no matter what we may tell ourselves...


The Rapture is happening... Armageddon is happening for some...
The end of the world for some...Ascension for some...
Everything is happening.

In other words, business as usual :)

I think you may be right, the difference is in the rhythm/pulse/'speed'... But then again, 'out of the blue' (completely unexpected/unforeseeable) Events have been known to occur as well...


The inhabitants get sorted out based on where they be in their own learning and spiritual evolution.

Since you mentioned 'two worlds', how/where is the line drawn, according to such criteria?
Not everyone is on the same level, and some may be more advanced at some levels but less at others, and the other way around.
I can't really see how it is possible to perform such a 'Rough Cut' (for lack of a better term). I think such a pie would have many pieces, not just two.

Still, I think the concept of graduation is valid, but NOT based on individual incarnations, but on the entire accumulated wisdom/experience of the 'Higher Self' (or 'Total Self', as Monroe called it), into which ALL of one's incarnations converge.

Higher Selves (comprised of ALL their incarnations) are the ones who graduate from the physical plane experience, not singular incarnations.
And a Higher Self will graduate, once it has all its needed experiences and wisdom (via its many incarnations) and has managed to break the addiction to having a physical vehicle.
I'll try to look up some of Monroe's tips for achieving what he calls 'Escape Velocity'.


The key is love in all this transition, the frequency key.
Fear will keep humans chained to the descending Earth, to the one that will repeat this last cycle.
It's just my take. What say others?

My take is a bit different :)

First, there is a primordial 'fear' that continues throughout the 'levels'.
Yes, a 'graduate' Higher Self may fear 'things' we couldn't possibly imagine right now. This however does not stop the progression.

There are certain requirements for graduation, and overcoming most physical-based fears is one of them (but not by far the only requirement).

Love is a WONDERFUL emotion, but not the 'ultimate' one, as some would have it, at least not in our (currently earthbound) psycho-linguistic associative framework.

I don't think there is even a word to describe what people call 'love' in the context of Graduation.
Monroe used the term 'Prime Energy' a lot, but would sometimes also settle for lesser words like 'love', 'loosh', 'The Big Nugget' and others.
But then again, maybe I'm just over-critical of the terminology, and we're all referring to the same thing, more or less :)

Anyway, I see it as a complex process, definitely not Black & White (as in 'love vs. fear'), but it eventually simplifies itself if we only let it and stop getting in the way :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fFm2JztM4G8

Monroe also wrote about love as 'The Big L', but under a much more individual and IMO 'alchemically incubating' umbrella:


Because this item of universal interest is so misunderstood and misconstrued, it took a special extended investigation to reduce it to anywhere near a rational level.
The following Rote (info), passed to me by a friend, is at least a beginning. Once it is absorbed, it will expand as it is contemplated (intended).

"Love can't be taught, can't be bought. Love can't be learned. It is generated within the individual in response to an external stimulus. The individual has no control over this generation.
Once initiated, it maybe layered over or sublimated but never destroyed. Physical death has no effect upon the reality of its existence, as such energy is neither dependent upon nor a part of time-space.
It is a radiation that cannot be grasped and held on to. Instead it is perceived, experienced as it passes through the individual, who adds to it that additional portion which has been generated by this passing.
The energy is thereby enhanced and the individual becomes a constant contributor and recipient thereof."

With the heavy emphasis on sexual arousal and the myth of romance, it is no surprise that so many claim to experience what we may call the Big L in their relationships. Not so.
The only way you can obtain it is through shared life experiences, and even then there is no guarantee. On the other hand it will grow on you.
You don't have to work at it, despite what the books say. Time is not a vital factor. The deeper, more intense the shared experience, the less time it takes.
Other attractions are not necessarily destructive or valueless but they do fall into another category. The difference is that the Big L is indestructible and eternal, and never dependent on local habits and customs.
Friendships, for example, might be construed as a shadow of the Big L, or at least a kissing cousin.
The greatest problem lies in mis-identification. We become entrapped into believing we found the Big L, often with disastrous results, when the ideal is not adhered to by the "loved" one.
The most consistent and visible facet of the Big L is probably mother love. It meets the tests admirably, although it often gets heavily layered with protocol.
Men find the Big L in other men and women in other women usually as a result of profound experience over sometime, although extended experience does not automatically evoke the Big L.
Yet when it does happen, sometimes effortlessly and without conscious awareness, it is permanent in the full meaning of the word.
If you work together, play together, live together, fight, suffer, laugh, and team together, the probability is increased.
The main characteristic of the Big L is that it does not diminish with physical death and you cannot extinguish it during physical life.
Out of necessity, propriety, or for reasons beyond your control you may sublimate it, yet it will always be there, glowing quietly within you.
Why the expression "till death do us part" became part of our culture is a mystery.
Perhaps it was inserted so that the physical survivor would feel emotionally free to remarry and beget more offspring to further ensure the continuation of the species.
Otherwise it makes no sense."
✂----------------------------------------------

Andro
11-23-2012, 10:53 PM
He said that the interesting thing isn't really the expansion of the infinite, but the "zone" in which the universe is expanding, a zone that is "not universe", which is in theory a zone without space-time and without universe.

As a Zone Dweller, I am vehemently protesting against this Imperialistic Invasion of my ZoneLand, which invasion the Infinity Dwellers often refer to as 'Expansion' or 'Lebensraum' or whatever :)

But I'm not worried. Every 'Infinity Empire' has its own built-in codes for self destruction.

"Only The Inside Makes The Ruin Manifest"
_______________________________________

(Just to lighten things up a bit, you know :))

solomon levi
11-24-2012, 12:18 AM
How can anyone really know this, let alone for someone else?


Same way one knows anything. Business as usual. :)

Energy follows attention.

Orbital
11-24-2012, 12:49 AM
Whatever Terence McKenna said regarding 2012 and Timewave Zero resonates and makes the most sense to me...

"We are on the brink of possibilities that will make us literally unrecognizable to ourselves and those possibilities will be realized, not in the next thousand years but in the next 20 years because the acceleration of invention and novelty and information transfer is at this point so rapid…"

Ezalor
11-25-2012, 05:34 PM
I think this thread of mine answers and - if you accept my answers - clears up a few questions asked and discussed here:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3288-A-few-words-on-the-history-and-structure-of-the-Universe-and-the-hierarchy-of-beings

Nibiru
12-20-2012, 05:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M7MZh_bvjg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M7MZh_bvjg

Andro
12-20-2012, 07:49 PM
Happy Doomsday, everyone ! ! !

:D :rolleyes: :p :eek: :confused: :mad: :o ;) :) :( :cool:

(Just in case...)
___________________________



יָדַי אַסְחֵי אֲנָא לְגַבֵּי חַד מָנָא
לְסִטְרָא חורִינָא דְּלֵית בֵּהּ מַמָּשָׁא

Axismundi000
12-20-2012, 08:02 PM
See you all in the new cycle.

Happy Great Year!!!!

solomon levi
12-21-2012, 12:54 PM
Happy Great Year!!

III
12-21-2012, 04:56 PM
Don't forget my official birthday toast tonight at 10.50 pm MST with Grand Marnier. After all millions and millions of people have been waiting for my birthday. I hope that all the millions celebrating my birthday today enjoy the day. I hope it was worth the wait and anticipation.

III
12-28-2012, 06:45 AM
My Alchemical Priestess/Partner and I had a most magnificient birthday ritual with our toast to top it off. I hope you all enjoyed the evening as well. I trust that all of us remain here on Earth, such as it is. Did anybody notice any unusually huge world shifting or anything of the sort?

Ilos
12-29-2012, 12:40 AM
It seems that Mayan calendar was accurate but there believes were false. This proves once again that no one really knows when the end of the world is gonna happen. It can happen anytime without even knowing that its going to. Maybe the mayans had some kind of purpose for giving such predictions. In my opinion I still think that all this was done for nothing more than some kind of mass psychological impact for who knows what reasons. What I see is that people wanting to make bigger changes in their life, take bigger steps and of course fulfill their ego. I hope for this spring to bloom more and more.

Krisztian
12-29-2012, 03:15 AM
It is dangerous for the consciousness of another culture to make interpretations of a different era, let alone culture. The end of the world scenario with Hollywood-like subplots is invented by 'white men' and other hidden hands for purposes of fear entertainment.

The Mayans said clearly that it's a new world, but not physical per say, but new level of consciousness. Their culture monitored time with the different phases of consciousness. That's the only thing that truly matters, the movement of consciousness and 'spiritual learning'.

Inspect your daily thoughts, then take a look at the reality you occupy? You may come to see that it's a new world, but like any other world, it's only to be had by those that aren't distracted by the fear entertainment.

solomon levi
12-29-2012, 05:40 AM
Did anybody notice any unusually huge world shifting or anything of the sort?

:) Well, for me, the world is a description, so yes, I noticed shifting.
But then, everything, the universe, infinity is at our fingertips all the time.
I am the world. I am shifting all the time. I am able to shift more and more easily -
I associate that with "the times". But "the times" are not other than myself.

In "Triumphal Chariot of Antimony" Basil Valentine says of the Mercury, "... This first principle is a mere vapor extracted from the
elementary earth through the heavenly planets, and, as it were, divided by the sidereal distillation of the macrocosmos. This sidereal
hot infusion, descends from on high into things which are below..."

Depending on my perspective, this happens to me, or through me, or both.

Man is microcosm. If one really understands this, then one understands 2012 and every other date, cycle, season...time/saturn.
Only those who don't understand would "wait" for it to happen, as if it is other than oneself.

Every time, every myth, every archetype, every emanation... all here now at your fingertips alchemists.
2012 was waiting for you.

Seth-Ra
12-29-2012, 07:36 PM
Man is microcosm. If one really understands this, then one understands 2012 and every other date, cycle, season...time/saturn.
Only those who don't understand would "wait" for it to happen, as if it is other than oneself.

Every time, every myth, every archetype, every emanation... all here now at your fingertips alchemists.
2012 was waiting for you.

Very true.
To understand and use the planetary times and signatures, doesn't mean we must wait for them to occur - some may not occur in our current form's timespan. We have but only to understand, and using that, draw that signature into now - set the conditions via your spirit, your projection - your world, our world, our Stone - us, me, you, I, we, All/One - now. :cool:




~Seth-Ra

Ilos
12-29-2012, 08:27 PM
As far as my eyes can see nothing has changes, as far as my consciousness can tell, It cant because for me everyday is a new day even tho they might be routine days. Dy by day I change as I enter through the life's phase.. The more I learn the more I seem to understand and all of this will also effect my consciousness to. The end of the whole 2012 and the beginning of 2013 will only close a chapter in me or better to say a refreshment of the whole me and it will take some time till I realize that, Oh yes here we go again feels like a brand new freshly start. As a try to do more and do harder things seem to complicate more, the more the basket is filled with apples the easier I can pick one and eat it with pleasure.

Awani
01-02-2013, 05:19 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/524923_541299429215234_1479450017_n_zpse06ce61d.jp g

:cool:

Andro
02-05-2013, 09:41 AM
Well, 2013 is here, we're still here (for now :rolleyes:) and I'm posting this although it's a bit past New Year...

I first heard this uplifting and heartwarming song on 'Glee' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZf-SDxwA20), and then tracked down the original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMwBXCc0flg).

I have already dedicated it (privately) to the dearest, sweetest and most amazing guy in my life right now - and now I am paying it forward to anyone who would have it.

To me, when carefully noticing the lyrics, it's almost like Sulfur singing to Mercury... which (besides being philosophically revealing) is also funny in the sense that I'm astrologically a Leo (Sun) - and the guy I've dedicated it to is a Gemini (Mercury) :)

Anyway, here it is, with the lyrics:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5-RSKcPJHg

III
02-06-2013, 07:06 AM
A month into 2013 and the bottle of Grand Marnier is a pleasant memory and some great evenings with a treat.

Glad to hear things are going well for you Androgynus.

Andro
12-31-2013, 05:24 PM
2014 is here (and yes, III, I'm doing well and things are looking up :)).

I guess 'The End Of The World As we Know It' will have to wait a bit more.

Expecting the UN-expected... And posting the Glee version of 'This Is The New Year'... With the exact same dedication as above :)

This Is The New Year - Glee Cover


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZf-SDxwA20

A most excellent 2014 to EVERYONE ! ! !