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True Initiate
12-25-2011, 12:01 PM
This thread is created to show many mistakes mady by the Philosophers so that everybody be warned on time and better think twice or thrice before believing any of them.

I will start with the legendary Johan Baptista van Helmont remembered today largely for his ideas on spontaneous generation, his 5-year willow tree experiment, and his introduction of the word "gas" (from the Greek word chaos) into the vocabulary of scientists and of course the incredible properties of his Alkahest. Today i will show you his less known works and experiments.
http://img290.imagevenue.com/loc484/th_812120628_Jan_Baptist_van_Helmont_portrait_122_ 484lo.jpg (http://img290.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=812120628_Jan_Baptist_van_Helmont_po rtrait_122_484lo.jpg)

One of the most heated arguments betwen the scholars of his time was about spontaneous generation that is a manufacture of Organic life forms with the help of inorganic material also called abiogenesis. To solve this problem Van Helmont has succesfully (so he thought :D) carried out a experiment how to generate mices using the Art of Alchemy as his aid. This is what he has done and later published:

Take a jar, fill it with moist wheat and dirty rags, cover the pot and wait for 21 days, the ferment from the dirty rags will turn wheat into mices!

It is obvious that Van Helmont had a serious trouble with intepreting the things he saw. In reality the mices were attracted by fermented wheat and got under the pot somehow but certainly they were not made by Fr. Helmont!
Believe it or not but after he has published this recipe he got famous not for his stupidity but for his scholarship! :rolleyes:

The other experiment that made him even more famous was his 5-year willow tree experiment.

In 1649, Jan Baptista Van Helmont did the first biological experiment in which the ingredients were measured accurately and all changes noted precisely. Van Helmont began by transplanting the shoot of a young willow tree into a large bucket of soil. He weighed the willow and then the soil separately. If the willow tree formed its tissues by absorbing the nutrients from the soil then the soil should lose weight as the plant grew. Van Helmont carefully kept the soil covered so that absolutely nothing could interfere with his experiment.

Naturally, Van Helmont had to water the willow tree or else it wouldn’t grow. He concluded that the water he was adding helped carry the nutrients to the tree and then simply evaporated into the air.

For five years, Van Helmont waited patiently, watching the tree grow until finally he removed it from the pot, shook off all the soil and and weighed the plant. In five years the willow tree had added 164 pounds to its original weight. Then, for the second part of the experiment, Van Helmont dried and weighed the soil. Had it lost 164 pounds to the weight of the tree? No. It had only lost 2 ounces!

From this, Van Helmont concluded that the willow tree drew its nutrients, not from the soil but from water. Accidentally, he made a mistake and said that the material that made up the bark, wood, roots and leaves came from the water he had added over the five years!


Of course Van Helmont failed again to observe and explain the results he got. For more deep analisys of his experiment go here:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/4449369

and here:
http://employees.csbsju.edu/ssaupe/biol106/lectures/science_van_Helmont.pdf

My question to members of this forum is how can somebody put trust in such an Alchemist and believes his claims about the Alkahest after one does carefull examination of his other works?

P.S.
The Fantasies of your favourite Philosophers will be continued in this thread so be sure to check it out once in awhile...

horticult
12-25-2011, 01:24 PM
thx, great!
i was thinking about a similar thread for some time.
it will be interesting to know, if they were writing these nonsenses before or after consuming the stone...

horticult
12-25-2011, 01:30 PM
nb how this micegenesis deny basic alch principle/law ... "mices from rags";;; worms from nothing / maybe from no-thing ;-))) / or from cadavers...

True Initiate
12-25-2011, 01:46 PM
This nothing or no-thing as you wrote they also called Spiritus Mundi, World Spirit or Holy Spirit and they attributed to him every aspect and virtue that they didn't understood back then.It was used like universal excuse for all their failures (sins) in understanding Nature...

Andro
12-25-2011, 02:35 PM
The Fox And The Grapes (http://epsilon5.hubpages.com/hub/Aesops-Fables-The-Fox-and-the-Grapes)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Kp0QbZWY67s

True Initiate
12-25-2011, 02:52 PM
And what has this story to do with my thread?

alfr
12-25-2011, 03:02 PM
Hi androgynus great i am agree is so MADE The Fox And The Grapes

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND GOOD HOLIDAY TO ALL

Andro
12-25-2011, 03:09 PM
And what has this story to do with my thread?

From the LINK (http://epsilon5.hubpages.com/hub/Aesops-Fables-The-Fox-and-the-Grapes) above:


The fox, here, finds that he is unable to obtain the grapes and, therefore, attempts to cause himself to believe that they weren't really what he wanted to begin with.

What we see above is a person finding something he wants, finding he can't get it, and talking lowly about the thing he wanted.

In no way do I mean it as a value judgement, rather pointing out that we tend to denigrate or even deny the existence of what appears to be out of our reach.

Some things need to be experienced directly, in order to be KNOWN and internalized.

Belief MAY serve as a precursor to KNOWING, but not as a substitute.

alfr
12-25-2011, 03:36 PM
I am agree maybe some not serious alchimst have made a invenction and some made "Fantasies of the Philosophers" sure but we must made a serious aN MADE A SERIOUS SELECTION If no made a very clear selection is much too likely with criticism and skepticism of throwing the baby out with the dorty bathwater, and put all / philosopher serious ( example very near us sicle 1700 it is the instruction original traditional operative very dettalis of the secret internal and reserved in manuscript oerative ol the german Golden RC : THESAURO THESAURORUM, ARCANA DIVINA SILEMTIUM ETC and the maybe invention lies and falsehoods "Fantasies of the Philosophers" of the some bad alchimist "in the same plane

my best regard alfr

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND GOOD HOLIDAY TO ALL

Illen A. Cluf
12-25-2011, 03:57 PM
This thread is created to show many mistakes mady by the Philosophers so that everybody be warned on time and better think twice or thrice before believing any of them.



There are many other such misinterpretations of Nature:

1. Meat transmuting into worms.
2. Meat transmuting into flies.
3. Gold growing in the teeth of skeletons in the grave.
4. Water in a container transmuting into bugs.
5. Thunder being caused by niter.
6. Water transmuting into fish in new ponds of water.

Season's Greetings!!

Illen

True Initiate
12-25-2011, 05:03 PM
There are many other such misinterpretations of Nature:

1. Meat transmuting into worms.
2. Meat transmuting into flies.
3. Gold growing in the teeth of skeletons in the grave.
4. Water in a container transmuting into bugs.
5. Thunder being caused by niter.
6. Water transmuting into fish in new ponds of water.

Season's Greetings!!

Illen

Oh yes, you guessed it and all those above mentioned transmutations are intepreted as the changes brought by the workings of the Spiritus Mundi! I was planning to include those errors too and if any of you have another examples this is the right place for it.

Illen A. Cluf
12-25-2011, 05:13 PM
Oh yes, you guessed it and all those above mentioned transmutations are intepreted as the changes brought by the workings of the Spiritus Mundi! I was planning to include those errors too and if any of you have another examples this is the right place for it.

One more:

7. Gold "regrowing" in mined cavities after 20-30 years! (This is often reported).

Illen

Nibiru
12-25-2011, 05:55 PM
So science has proven that "spontaneous generation" is impossible? If this is the case then science seems quite constricting on the power of the imagination and of our limitless human potential. How would we ever make new discoveries if everything of value was "proven" to be impossible??

Illen A. Cluf
12-25-2011, 06:17 PM
So science has proven that "spontaneous generation" is impossible? If this is the case then science seems quite constricting on the power of the imagination and of our limitless human potential. How would we ever make new discoveries if everything of value was "proven" to be impossible??

"Spontaneous generation" in these specific circumstances has been demonstrated to be impossible by correct observation. There are still numerous possibilities for spontaneous generation that have not been disproven. If someone disagrees with what modern science has demonstrated, then it is up to that person to "disprove" it. Merely saying so, or "believing it" to be true is not enough. Remember, that alchemical transmutation has NEVER been scientifically proven in modern times. Thus it remains a myth or fantasy, just like the Loch Ness Monster, until someone can demonstrate that it really can occur as stated by the ancients.

Illen

III
12-25-2011, 09:55 PM
"Spontaneous generation" in these specific circumstances has been demonstrated to be impossible by correct observation. There are still numerous possibilities for spontaneous generation that have not been disproven. If someone disagrees with what modern science has demonstrated, then it is up to that person to "disprove" it. Merely saying so, or "believing it" to be true is not enough. Remember, that alchemical transmutation has NEVER been scientifically proven in modern times. Thus it remains a myth or fantasy, just like the Loch Ness Monster, until someone can demonstrate that it really can occur as stated by the ancients.

Illen

Hi Illen,

Fantasies, and perhaps to be gentle, unprovable hypotheses, abounded. I'm sure it is much wider that most would believe. There are the intentional fabricators who are working the big con in the style of the period., there are the not very careful observers who don't control for individual cells of life, for small eggs and even holes big enough for mice to get through. There is wishful thinking galore. There are jargos that developed that may not mean what one thinks. What does "daiseychain: mean? Does it have to do with flowers, group sex or hard disks or ??? So 500 years from now some books that tell exactly how to create the 21st century philosopher's stone mention the philosopher's daisychain as a key operation. So what are they talking about?

I see this type of cpmplication in vitamins and food supplents all the time. There is not any really good testing of any variety for many things. When they are tested they are ofte tested inadequately. Sometimes they are tested to disprove something, so like with Mythbusters, if they can't get the claimed results with the claimed methods change the methods untol the desired result is reached. So vitamin C and the claims Linus Pauling made had to be disproved. He claimed that doses of Vit C around 16+ grams a day would prevent a lot of diseases. To test that they tried 500mg. 500MG of vit C doesn't prevent flus or colds. However, the question of whether 16,000mg can prevent flu or cold, Pauling's claim, s is untested to this day. I claim that 30mg a day of methylcobalamin (real active b12) injections in 3x10mg SC injections, can reverse certain types of CNS damage. Reserchers claim that 1mg per month of cyanocobalamin (inactive official b12) does't not reverse those symptoms of neuroloigcal damage. These are two entirerly different things. Just becauae somebody claims to doing "X" doesn't mean that they are actually doing so. They might just be faking it to collect a bar bet.

Illen A. Cluf
12-25-2011, 11:30 PM
Hi Illen,

Fantasies, and perhaps to be gentle, unprovable hypotheses, abounded. I'm sure it is much wider that most would believe. There are the intentional fabricators who are working the big con in the style of the period., there are the not very careful observers who don't control for individual cells of life, for small eggs and even holes big enough for mice to get through. There is wishful thinking galore. There are jargos that developed that may not mean what one thinks. What does "daiseychain: mean? Does it have to do with flowers, group sex or hard disks or ??? So 500 years from now some books that tell exactly how to create the 21st century philosopher's stone mention the philosopher's daisychain as a key operation. So what are they talking about?

I see this type of cpmplication in vitamins and food supplents all the time. There is not any really good testing of any variety for many things. When they are tested they are ofte tested inadequately. Sometimes they are tested to disprove something, so like with Mythbusters, if they can't get the claimed results with the claimed methods change the methods untol the desired result is reached. So vitamin C and the claims Linus Pauling made had to be disproved. He claimed that doses of Vit C around 16+ grams a day would prevent a lot of diseases. To test that they tried 500mg. 500MG of vit C doesn't prevent flus or colds. However, the question of whether 16,000mg can prevent flu or cold, Pauling's claim, s is untested to this day. I claim that 30mg a day of methylcobalamin (real active b12) injections in 3x10mg SC injections, can reverse certain types of CNS damage. Reserchers claim that 1mg per month of cyanocobalamin (inactive official b12) does't not reverse those symptoms of neuroloigcal damage. These are two entirely different things. Just because somebody claims to doing "X" doesn't mean that they are actually doing so. They might just be faking it to collect a bar bet.

Hi III. I couldn't agree more with your response. However, if anyone in the scientific community makes a claim that is significant, almost for sure, there will be those who will test that claim. If they find it to be false, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to make a name for themselves by making a counter-claim. Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen because of the insane and incredibly biased way that scientific research is funded. Research is often funded by those very industries which stand most to gain by certain conclusions. Any scientist attempting to make a counter claim will often be approached by representatives of those industries and asked to drop the claim or risk having the funding dropped. This goes on all the time, and I could never understand why there is no public outcry against industry sponsorship of scientific research. But we live in a politically corrupt world which is quietly supported by the apathy of the population at large.

So Truth is a very elusive pursuit. There is the Truth that the elitist heads of some of the biggest corporations (e.g. Drug Industry) want us to believe, and there is the Truth that the poor, threatened and under-sponsored researcher would like us to address.

But there are other Truths that we can all discover for ourselves. But without sharing the results in some convincing way, they have little relevance for the rest of us, and only helps continue the mistrust of such claims.

Illen

Albion
12-25-2011, 11:48 PM
So science has proven that "spontaneous generation" is impossible?

Nibiru, I don't know whether or not these experiments have been validated by others or not.
I'm just posting the link on the outside chance it might be of interest to you or other members.

The Origin of Life Experiments by Dr. Andrija Puharich

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Life-Experiments-Andrija-Puharich/dp/1935023411/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324856093&sr=1-3

http://www.puharich.nl/Bio/Elf_Magnetic_model_of_matter_and_mind.pdf
_____________________________________________

Polonius: Do you know me, my lord?
Hamlet: Excellent well; you're a fishmonger.
Polonius: Not I, my lord.
Hamlet: Then I would you were so honest a man.
Polonius: Honest, my lord!
Hamlet: Ay, sir; to be honest, as this world goes, is to be one man picked out of ten thousand.
Polonius: That's very true, my lord.
Hamlet: [Reads] For if the sun breed maggots in a dead dog, being a god kissing carrion, — Have you a daughter?
Polonius: I have, my lord.
Hamlet: Let her not walk i' the sun: conception is a blessing: but not as your daughter may conceive; — friend, look to 't.
Polonius: [Aside] How say you by that? Still harping on my daughter: — yet he knew me not at first; he said I was a fishmonger: he is far gone, far gone: and truly in my youth I suffered much extremity for love; very near this.

[Hamlet, act II, scene ii]

Nibiru
12-26-2011, 02:21 AM
Merry Christmas Illen, and fellow Seekers :)




"Spontaneous generation" in these specific circumstances has been demonstrated to be impossible by correct observation. There are still numerous possibilities for spontaneous generation that have not been disproven. If someone disagrees with what modern science has demonstrated, then it is up to that person to "disprove" it. Merely saying so, or "believing it" to be true is not enough. Remember, that alchemical transmutation has NEVER been scientifically proven in modern times. Thus it remains a myth or fantasy, just like the Loch Ness Monster, until someone can demonstrate that it really can occur as stated by the ancients.

Illen

Disproven to who? How does one prove something, by displaying the process in sequence leading to the desired results? If this is the case, then when does it become Truth or fact? Is it proven once I've shown it to you privately? If so, then once it has been "proven" to you is it still a myth for the rest of the population?? For something to be Truth must it be proven to everyone, a majority, or only a few?? If it must be proven to everyone, then nothing could ever be labeled as Truth or "proven". If I had found a cure for AIDS and the word had spread, this would be considered a myth to those who had heard the news. Now to those that had been cured it would be TRUTH/Proof, because it's in the pudding.. If this threads purpose is to discredit the potentially false methods with the honorable intention of saving the time and resources of mislead Seekers, then I'm all for it! On the other hand if it's purpose is to discredit all possible forms of "spontaneous generation", I would consider the concept a potential trap for any inspired Seeker of Truth...

Everybody wishes magic were "real", but no one's willing to believe :(

Nibiru
12-26-2011, 05:19 AM
Nibiru, I don't know whether or not these experiments have been validated by others or not.
I'm just posting the link on the outside chance it might be of interest to you or other members.

Cool Albion, Thank You ;)

III
12-26-2011, 07:08 AM
Merry Christmas Illen, and fellow Seekers :)


Disproven to who? How does one prove something, by displaying the process in sequence leading to the desired results? If this is the case, then when does it become Truth or fact? Is it proven once I've shown it to you privately? If so, then once it has been "proven" to you is it still a myth for the rest of the population?? For something to be Truth must it be proven to everyone, a majority, or only a few?? If it must be proven to everyone, then nothing could ever be labeled as Truth or "proven". If I had found a cure for AIDS and the word had spread, this would be considered a myth to those who had heard the news. Now to those that had been cured it would be TRUTH/Proof, because it's in the pudding.. If this threads purpose is to discredit the potentially false methods with the honorable intention of saving the time and resources of mislead Seekers, then I'm all for it! On the other hand if it's purpose is to discredit all possible forms of "spontaneous generation", I would consider the concept a potential trap for any inspired Seeker of Truth...

Everybody wishes magic were "real", but no one's willing to believe :(

Hi Nibiru,

And a merry christmas to you and the whole crew. What with divorces and spread out families my partner's family had their big get together last week and I had my kids and families over last night so it was just the two of us today, eating christmas dinner leftovers, which were very tasty. The whole "spontaneous generation" just looks like a distraction from evolving the being, no matter how it works out.


Many people actually don't want to be healed from their long term chronic diseases. I can't tell you why except that for some reason they identify with it. People that have dealt 20 years building their identity around the disease makes it unlikely that they actually want to be cured. I have seen this over and over. Instead they build belief systems that tend to prevent them from doing the things that would actually heal them. They would rather take certain supplements and rightiously suffer "detox" from the riddence of certain hypothetical toxins, often mercury, in the body. They suffer this for years and tears and getting worse and worse. Sometimes it ends and sometimes people don't quite the cause of the "detox" until they can no longer take it. So far, with the cooperation of some people, 100% of those willing the try the "cure" for "detox". The cures indicate one or more of these three things.
Lack of potassium induced by startup response to mb12/adb12/Metafolin
Induced severe deficiency of methylfolate (Metafolin) caused by NAC, NAC plus other glutathione precursors including un-denatured whey and if continued more than two days begins to accumulate additional b12 deficiency symptoms
Paradoxical methylfolate deficiency caused by inability for body to convert folic acid and/or folinic acid-vegetble food source folate (folinic acid) and if continued more than two weeks begins to accumulate additional b12 deficiency symptoms.
The cure works with an 8mg dose of Metafolin to begin and some of the right brands of methylb12/adenosylb12 sublinguals, and continue with similar Metafolin & b12s doses as symptons fall off until adjusting the dose after all symptoms are gone. It works about 100% of timefor those trying it. All it takes is a willingness of people to put down their rightous sufferring in the name of the favored toxification hypothesis. Many won't try it because it isn't "proven" and because that would mean that their toxification hypotheisis is wrong. Puzzling disorders artract all sorts of hypotheses that turn out to be completely wrong with people terribly attached to their incorrect hypotheses. One person at a time can demonstrate that it appears to work for them. Thousands have demonstrated this and a few additional hypotheses about mb12/adb12/Metafolin. They have all had the predicted effects and many are in process of healing. Proof is an entirely different thing. Despite response being predictable at 85-100% of selected group based on responses to questions the right groups of people haven't relicated the test several times with official results and isn't "proven". Who is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to do the tests and repeat/verify when the substances used are OTC or prescription vitamins and no big profits in sight and will end the sale of billions and billions of dollars per year of certain phamaceuticals, which by the way are not "Detox" but rather what they were trying to cure when "detox" started.

Ghislain
12-26-2011, 07:23 AM
Professor Brian Cox gives a lecture on quantum physics from the Royal Institute of Great Britain to
an audience of celebrities.

He opens with...


The Best theory to describe matter is quantum theory. Now I understand why quantum
theory can seem a bit odd, it makes odd statements. It says for example that things can be in many
places at once; in fact technically it says that things can be in an infinite number of places at once. It
says that subatomic building blocks of our bodies are constantly shifting in response to thing that
happened at the edge of the known universe a billion light years somewhere over there (points).

Now this is all true, but this isn’t a licence to talk utter drivel. See, quantum theory might seem
weird and mysterious, but it describes the world with higher precision than the laws of physics laid
down by Newton and it’s one of the foundations of our modern understanding of nature. It doesn’t
therefore allow mystical healing or ESP or any other manifestation of new age woo woo into the
pantheon of the possible. Always remember, quantum theory is physics and physics is usually done
by people without star signs tattooed on their bottom.

He finishes the lecture by saying...


There is nothing strange there is nothing weird there’s no woo woo; its just beautiful physics.

Its an enjoyable lecture. Watch the video and then you decide...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f9wcSLs8ZQ

Ghislain

Nibiru
12-26-2011, 08:42 AM
Thanks III!! I don't know what cure you are speaking of, but my mother has had M.S. for over 20 years and I was planning to ask you if b12 could help with that? I'm beginning to think you may of just answered my question in advance, was this the case? With "spontaneous generation" being a distraction to enlightenment, I suppose it would depend on the amount of effort vs reward to those who seek this path. From my understanding there are several paths and each person has their own personal attributes that are better suited for some paths over others. In my case, I've always had a problem inducing a trance state with myself. I can put others under with no problem, it actually happens without me trying at times and has been this way since I was a child. But anytime I try to hypnotize myself through meditation, binaural beats, or whatever else I end up falling asleep. This happens every-time without fail. So for me an internal path is difficult, but one of practicality and devotion seems to be better suited for my temperament. Different strokes for different folks I guess. :)



There is nothing strange there is nothing weird there’s no woo woo; its just beautiful physics.

My intuition disagrees, but to each his own ;)

vega33
12-26-2011, 10:18 AM
Oh yes, you guessed it and all those above mentioned transmutations are intepreted as the changes brought by the workings of the Spiritus Mundi! I was planning to include those errors too and if any of you have another examples this is the right place for it.

Everything is infused with this divine breath of the Spiritus Mundi, this has no bearing or impact on whether things are or are not "spontaneously generated" from this or that materia. I think you are making the fatal mistake of forgetting that axiom of the philosophers: that they are never more obscure as when they appear to be speaking clearly. They do this because those who have done the work and made contact with the Order can, through appropriate techniques, judge the sense or spirit of the words and understand what lives under the dead husk of the words. true philosophers have pointed out the need for the male and female seeds in generation, such as Sendivogius.

But, as someone else has said on this thread, it is easy to denigrate what we do not understand and claim that the philosophers believed fantasies. Thankfully I have the clear evidence of my senses and my mind which I have not lost, to tell me that what is said in concord between the brothers of our Order is correct.

Fraternally,
-m

Albion
12-26-2011, 12:02 PM
Cool Albion, Thank You ;)

Sure :) - maybe you'll find a trace of something of value in there.

I'm also reminded of the dark field microscopy work of Gaston Naessens which, from my admittedly unprofessional point of view, has been validated (at least in some respects) by a number of researchers I tend to trust*.
_________________________________________________

THE SOMATID CYCLE

"In a long lost chapter in the history of science, a violent controversy took place in France between the illustrious Louis Pasteur and Antoine Bechamp, a noted professor of physics, toxicology, medical chemistry, and biochemistry. Bechamp's work led him to discover "microzymas" (tiny ferments), which were characterised by a host of small bodies in his fermenting solutions.

After years of study, Bechamp came to the conclusion that these microzymas were more basic to life than cells. Even with his crude equipment, he was able to observe that the microzymas underwent dramatic transformations during their life cycle. This caused Bechamp to champion the idea that the cause for disease lay within the body. Pasteur's germ theory held that the cause came from without. Pasteur's outspokenness helped the germ theory win out and it has dominated medical thinking for the past century.

Now, a hundred years later, Gaston Naessens has discovered an ultra-microscopic, subcellular, living and reproducing microscopic form which he christened a "somatid" (tiny body). This new particle could be cultured outside the bodies of the host. Naessens also observed that the particle had a pleomorphic (form-changing) life cycle, which has sixteen stages. Only the first three stages of the somatid's life cycle are normal.
Naessens discovered that when the immune system is weakened or disrupted, the somatids go through the other thirteen stages. The weakening of the immune system could be brought about by a number of causes, such as exposure to chemical pollution, ionising radiation, electric fields, poor nutrition, accidents, shock, depression, and many more.

Incredibly, Naessens' research has resulted in the association of degenerative diseases (rheumatoid arthritis. multiple sclerosis, lupus, cancer and Aids) with the development of various forms in the sixteen-stage pathological cycle. The ability to associate the disease with specific stages has enabled Naessens to 'prediagnose' conditions in advance of when they would clinically appear.

This discovery puts Gaston Naessens at odds with the orthodox medical philosophy of today which has embraced Pasteur's germ theory wholeheartedly. Naessen's work is repeatable. The ability to culture somatids is a bell-weather to the rewriting of micro-biology!

Naessens has stated:
"I've been able to establish a life cycle of forms in the blood that add up to no less than a brand new understanding of the basis of life. What we're talking about is an entirely new biology, one out of which has fortunately sprung practical applications of benefit to sick people, even before all of its many theoretical aspects have been sorted out."

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/naessen.htm

http://drbradcase.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/somatid-cycle-culture-23.jpg

http://drbradcase.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-germ-2/

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/naessens.htm
_________________________________________________

* Interview with Patrick Flanagan

Q. Could you tell us about your research with the Naessens microscope?

Dr. Alex's Carrel won the Nobel Prize in medicine for demonstrating that living cells can be kept alive indefinitely by applying a simple formula. Dr. Carrel said: "The cell is immortal. It is merely the fluid in which it floats that degenerates. Renew this fluid at intervals, give the cells what they require for nutrition and as far as we know, the pulsation of life may go on forever". The fluid which Dr. Carrel referred to is cellular water. Cellular water is different from bulk ordinary water in that cellular water is composed of liquid crystals while bulk water is relatively unstructured. Attempts to duplicate Dr. Carrel's work have ended in failure. The reason is that no one was able to duplicate Dr. Carrel's secret nutrient solution used to replenish nutrients in the cells. The secret of cellular longevity lies in the discovery of a life energy mediator which is found in the cellular fluids of all living organisms. Gaston Naessens of Canada may have discovered a cellular energy transformer. He calls this life-form the somatid. The word somatid means "tiny body". Naessens discovered the somatid after he developed a new powerful microscope that enabled him see cellular organisms that could never be seen before. These small organisms are in constant motion and cannot be seen under the conditions imposed by electron scanning microscopy and ordinary optical microscopy. In the 1940's, as a blood microbiologist, he discovered that there was something in the blood that could barely be seen with the most powerful microscope. Naessens realized that optical microscopes had reached perfection and could not be further improved. He found that by manipulating light resolving power could be improved. The ability to see an object under a microscope is dependent on your ability to illuminate your subject. In normal microscopy, light passes through the object or is reflected from the top of the subject into the lens system. It is theoretically impossible to view something that is smaller than one-half the physical wavelength of the light of illumination. This means that the maximum resolving power for an optical microscope is between 2000 and 3000 Angstroms (200 - 300 nanometers). This is one half the wavelength of blue light.

Resolving power is defined as a measure of the ability of a telescope or microscope to produce detectable separate images of objects that are close together. Naessens developed a modified `dark field' illuminator that illuminates the object to be viewed by transmitting ultra violet light at right angles to the object. When viewed from the top, the light is focused from the sides toward the center of the viewing field. The light surrounds the subject in a perfect circle. The background is a black disk that prevents light from entering the eye directly through the subject to be viewed. In addition, the short wave ultraviolet light causes many tiny particles to `glow' or fluorescence thereby emitting their own light in the visible spectrum. This is very much like glow paint under a 'black light'. An understanding of the light system may be found in our own homes. We are surrounded by tiny air particulates that are one micron or less in diameter. We cannot see these particles because the light in our environment is diffused and comes from all directions. If we move to a dark room with a hole in the wall, and a beam of sunlight shines through that hole, the air particulates are illuminated by brilliant light from a 90 degree angle against a dark background. The invisible particles can then be resolved by the naked eye. At this point our eyes have a resolving power of less than one micron without the aid of magnification. Gaston Naessens ingeniously applied this phenomenon to the optical microscope. Some of your readers may be familiar with microscopy and may point out that dark field microscopy has been used for years however no one was able to get the resolving power that Naessens claims. The answer is simple: Naessens developed a better dark field condenser. This discovery has moved the power of optical microscopy into the 21st century. We recently added a Naessens microscope to our research laboratory so that we could explore this new frontier of tiny organisms. When viewed with the microscope, somatids look like tiny flickering points of pure light. When we inspect live human blood we see these particles in a vibratory dance around our red blood cells. Naessens described these particles in the life fluids of all living things. They are in abundance in fresh picked fruits and vegetables but are lacking in the juice of vegetables and fruits that are not fresh. By viewing our own live blood we have been able to correlate feelings of strength and vitality with an abundance of somatids. After we drink Crystal Energy (R) concentrate, our blood is filled with millions of somatids. We have found somatids in every living juice or fluid as well as in Hunza water and Crystal Energy (R). By observing the effects of diet, sleep, exercise, Crystal Energy (R) water and fresh fruits and vegetables on our blood somatids, We have been able to further refine our healthy life-style and have tripled our energy.
The Naessens microscope has enabled us to further our research so that every aspect of life and its effect on the blood is easily observable. There is an old saying that "life is in the blood". By observing the effects of nutrients, exercise, and diet on the blood we can certainly enhance the quality of life.

Q. What effects do Microclusters. have on somatids?

Microclusters. possess powerful surface energies that potentize somatids. Part of this capability may be due to the ability of Microcluster (R) particles to absorb, store and release electrons. This ability is measured by means of a measure called redox potential. When Microclusters. are added to water, the surface charges (Zeta potential) attract water molecules and form liquid crystals. When liquid crystals are formed at room temperature, free energy is conserved by a reduction of surface tension. When surface tension is lowered, free energy is increased and wetting power is increased. Free energy is defined as negative entropy. Negative entropy is the energy associated with a higher order or structuring. Negative entropy is closely associated with life. That is, in living energy systems, energy tends to be stored in the form of increased structure. In an aging system, entropy increases, i.e. structure is destroyed. In thermodynamics, the term entropy is defined as the amount of energy in a system that is in a state of disorder and therefore unavailable for use. Negative entropy means we have more energy available in the form of structure. In chemistry, Gibbs Free Energy equations relate surface tension and temperature to entropy. When structure is increased without lowering temperature, negative entropy is manifested as a reduction of surface tension. It is the Gibbs Free Energy formula that explains how Microclusters. are able to lower the surface tension of ordinary water.

http://artofhacking.com/IET/NEWTECH/live/aoh_flan-2.htm

http://www.ressourcement.info/Longevity%20missing%20link.pdf

http://www.megahydrate.com/published_studies.html

Illen A. Cluf
12-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Merry Christmas Illen, and fellow Seekers :)

Merry Christmas, Nibiru - I hope you had a great day yesterday.


Disproven to who?

The scientific community at large.


How does one prove something, by displaying the process in sequence leading to the desired results?

I was using the word "prove" or "disprove" in a generic sense, not in a philosophical sense. I think I have mentioned in another post some time ago that nothing except for maybe mathematics can be absolutely proven or disproven. And mathematics only because it is made up of human made rules. From a generic point of view, if you have a theory but have never followed it through to its conclusion, then it remains a theory only and has not been "proven". That is the sense which I was trying to make.


If this is the case, then when does it become Truth or fact? Is it proven once I've shown it to you privately? If so, then once it has been "proven" to you is it still a myth for the rest of the population?? For something to be Truth must it be proven to everyone, a majority, or only a few?? If it must be proven to everyone, then nothing could ever be labeled as Truth or "proven". If I had found a cure for AIDS and the word had spread, this would be considered a myth to those who had heard the news. Now to those that had been cured it would be TRUTH/Proof, because it's in the pudding.. If this threads purpose is to discredit the potentially false methods with the honorable intention of saving the time and resources of mislead Seekers, then I'm all for it! On the other hand if it's purpose is to discredit all possible forms of "spontaneous generation", I would consider the concept a potential trap for any inspired Seeker of Truth...

As mentioned above, this is a philosophical question which we could argue for a long time, and never come to a perfect agreement. There are no hard lines on how many people need to witness an event to determine its truth to the community at large. Many factors need to be assessed, such as the credibility of the person demonstrating the claim, the credibility of the witnesses, how many witnesses there are, how carefully controlled the experiment was, etc. It's a matter of degree, but the more credible witnesses there are, the more it gains a sense of truth. With alchemy in modern times, it has never been more than hearsay, and never from credible sources.


Everybody wishes magic were "real", but no one's willing to believe :(

That depends on how you define "magic". I have personally performed paranormal events and witnessed those of others that have no logical explanation at all. So is this "magic" or a "miracle" or just an event that so far does not yet have a "scientific" or "natural" explanation?

I have never said that I don't "believe" in the possibility of alchemical transmutation. I do "believe" in its possibility, but "belief" does not make it a reality - it only offers an open-minded perspective that allows for the testing of that belief. Too many would-be alchemists have translated "belief" into unchanging, dogmatic reality, and I think that's a mistake.

However, at the same time, I firmly believe that some of the natural observations reported by the ancient philosophers to explain alchemy were in error, based on what we know today. This does not mean that their results were not what they said they were, but that their explanations for those results were in error. Those are the events that I thought this thread was trying to address.

Illen

horticult
12-26-2011, 04:16 PM
OTs
please moderators act
i think that True Puffer´s intention was to post clear nonsense statements from books of Adepts, who are supposed that they did the Stone!

vega33
12-26-2011, 09:56 PM
That depends on how you define "magic". I have personally performed paranormal events and witnessed those of others that have no logical explanation at all. So is this "magic" or a "miracle" or just an event that so far does not yet have a "scientific" or "natural" explanation?

Did you know that there is a website called TASTE which allows scientists to anonymously share their transcendent experiences and other odd happenings? This so that they do not lose their funding by saying something outside the bounds of the orthodoxy. And there have been many who have had that happen, and there is a lot invested in ensuring that no trace of anything that could be defined as magickal, spiritual, or similar remains. Anyone who doubts this, look up Ben Stein's great documentary "No Intelligence Allowed", about the intelligent design debate and people who have even lost tenure over it.

What we now call modern science is not science at all, it is a bizarre patchwork heterodoxy, nay even an oligarchy, where people can be secretly told what they want the results of the study to be, if the funding is controlled by some company or group of companies, and it is rotten to the core. If something you experience falls outside of this framework, count yourself as lucky! You have proven to yourself what several philosophers have said, namely that thankfully Nature does not submit herself to the will of these sad "scientists", otherwise everything would have stopped growing long ago!

BTW @Albion, thanks for bringing up Bechamp and posting the interesting stuff about Flanagan. He's a bloke whos unafraid to do science on the edge (the real kind, I mean).

III
12-27-2011, 02:49 AM
Thanks III!! I don't know what cure you are speaking of, but my mother has had M.S. for over 20 years and I was planning to ask you if b12 could help with that? I'm beginning to think you may of just answered my question in advance, was this the case? With "spontaneous generation" being a distraction to enlightenment, I suppose it would depend on the amount of effort vs reward to those who seek this path. From my understanding there are several paths and each person has their own personal attributes that are better suited for some paths over others. In my case, I've always had a problem inducing a trance state with myself. I can put others under with no problem, it actually happens without me trying at times and has been this way since I was a child. But anytime I try to hypnotize myself through meditation, binaural beats, or whatever else I end up falling asleep. This happens every-time without fail. So for me an internal path is difficult, but one of practicality and devotion seems to be better suited for my temperament. Different strokes for different folks I guess. :)



My intuition disagrees, but to each his own ;)

Hi Nibiru,

I'm going to approach the MS question for your mother in a round about way. First I want to make clear that Tantra and the earlier pre-formal tantra included the arts, the healing arts, nutritional arts, mystical/spiritual arts and the Alchemical-evolutionary arts. After 5 decades of ill health and 16 years of severe disabling illness with more than 200 symptoms and the puzzling of over 100 doctors I was dying and desparate. After doing a lot of data mining on the web and research in Tantric Alchemy I found that the possible solutions were converging. The "Tantric meal" in vegetarian countries for restoring the capability for Tantric sexual acts and the neurology for spiritual and mystical experiences just happened to coincide those substances for neurological, physiological, immunological and metabolic healing. Then I read a lot more research papers. While each paper is very narrowly focused trying to pin down one thing taken as a group the synthesis of these various papers appears to back up both the internet data mining of people's actual experiences and the 2000 year old tantric/taoist type traditions. I went off to the healthfood store and picked up a bottle of a brand of products I was familiar with. I was standing in line at the checkout and my "advisor" volunteered "Those won't work, you need that other brand". I went back to the shelves, put the one bottle back and picked out the one I was guided to out of about 8 different brands. Five minutes after putting the first tablet under my tongue I knew it was doing something. In 15 minutes I knew without any doubt that my life was changed. The first bottle I picked up we later tested. Of all five testers it was an absolute ZERO star performer. The other brand turned out to be a 5 star performer for all 5 testers, the best we have run across in almost 9 years now. Talk about being guided, yikes. The results were refined and added to over the next several years. Interestingly almost everything added was a component in the tantric meal. Tantric alchemy turned out to be an excellent guide.

Now I know the most likely reason; not all methylb12 is created equally. It is produced much like beer, by bacterial fementation of a feed stock just like beer or soy souce. Each different bacteria used produces a different variety of methylb12. I have identified at least 3 differnent grades, 1 star, 3 star and 5 star varieties. These "minor" differences of various varieties of mb12 are verified in the literature, not as to effectivenss differences but as to chemical structure differences. Further, perfectly good methylb12 can be destroyed to non-functionality by exposure to light while preparing or injecting the mb12 solution. In that case it doesn't work and it often causes scalp and facial lesions that look like acne.

There are two varieties of natural b12; adenosylb12 which is in the mitochondria of muscles and nerves and is used in processing fats to ATP in the Krebs cycle, and methylb12 which is for cell reproduction in every part and system of the body and nervous system functioning. There are two varieties of deficiency for each of these two types of b12; the body in general and the isolated by the blood brain barrier Central Nervous System. What that means basically is that the CNS including brain and cord can be deficient even when the body has adequate levels.

When I say "normal" or "elevated" in all this it is a statistical abstraction. "Normal" levels do not mean asymptomatic. With normal or elevated levels a person may display hundreds of deficiency symptoms.

Research studies have shown that the CSF (Cerebral Spinal Fluid) levels of cobalamin are "low" in MS, CFS, FMS, ALS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, SupraNuclear Palsy and probably some others.

Other research studies following up on some of these previous studies looked for additional biomarkers for low cobalamin to determine the type of low cobalamin. So MS shows up with "elevated" HCY (homocysteine) a biomarker for low methylb12 and/or methylfolate and/or p5p. ALS shows up with elevated HCY AND elvated MMA (methylmalonic acid) a biomarker for "low" adenosylb12. Parkinson's shows up with elevated MMA. A recent study indicated that Parkinson's apears to be the result of 20 years or more of non-functioning mitochondria and the damage that causes. Once damage is done, there is more difficulty in repairing the damage than in merely restoring biochemical funtioning.

Another set of studies in Japan working with folks with MS and ALS and doses of 50mg/day of methylb12 indicates improved functioning for the duration of the study dose, 3-6 months.

My individual trials replicated by several others indicates a threshold of effectiveness against CNS/CSF cobalamin deficiencies at the 7.5mg-10mg dose injected SC 3-4 times per day. This puts it squarely in the range of the 50mg found effective in Japanese studies.

In personal trials also replicated by several individuals, there was found to be a pattern of increasing and decreasing symptoms from paradoxical folate deficiency. This pattern of periodic remission is also followed in many folks with MS.

In VERY LIMITED trials with a couple of people with MS, injections of methylb12 of 7.5-10mg with other substances orally (adenosylb12, Metafolin, l-carnitine fumarate, Omega3 oils, plus others) major remission could be triggered within hours of the injection. The main hazzard is then for them to over-do their activity because they feel so good and then a collapse as followup to excessive activity. The single injection lasted up to 24 hours.

So, if everything is done right, these things may help your mother.

If she starts this on a regular basis she will most likely have a lot of intense "startup" symptoms and also potassium deficiency induced by speedup of cell formation usualy starting by day 3. Make sure Potassium is had at the same time unless she retains potassium because of kidney problems or any other reason.

I've always had a problem inducing a trance state with myself.

I find "erotic trance" in a Tantra context to be pretty easy to learn and very reliable. I have had too many extraordinary experiences to even count. It's easy to spend 4 or more hours in such state, local time, and of course that can be huge amounts of "duration" depending upon where one is as lifetimes can go by in an external blink of an eye. It's hard to say how much the purely alchemical part of Tantra had to do with my extrordinary recovery. I consumed the 3 medicines at least weekly and elixir of life somewhat less often. As these items contained many more componenets than purely the nutritional that are gotten in the meal or supplements, as well as the imprinted energies and the energy of the activities I received very large doses of Shaktipat at least once a week. I would feel a lot better for about 3 days after each such occurance. How much influence that had on my healing I can't tell you. The "inner alchemist" wants to say to me "more than you think". The inner ultra rational skeptical scientist says "What's that you say?"

In any case I am in the best health of my entire life instead of the dead and rotted I would have expected 10 years ago before finding and understanding the secrets of the tantric meal now stated in scientific terms. "Any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic" Clarke's Law. The only place where this effect could be recognized would be in a vegetarian society where vast numbers starve themselves of methylb12, adenosylb12 and methylfolate to the point of body function breakdown, such as no sexual function remaining, no orgasmic function remaining, no reproductive function remaining, no libido remaining, falling energy, failing neurology and many more aspects and having these restored in chunks starting the very first time the taboo meal is eaten and increasingly each time after that if done at least weekly. Such a powerful effect would look like magic powers released by violating the taboo, one traditional hypothesis, of eating both fish and beef. However, where these things are regularly consumed the amount in these foods isn't going to make any noticable difference whereas the supplements can give anybody deficient to even a small degree for any of the components, the ability to have the experiencing of feeling the changes of onset. Lack of these nutrients can hold one back even if there are not any obvious symptoms

Basically the knowledge to explain the magical seeming effectiveness of the tantric meal in nutritional terms is only now developing in this completeness and it is possible that additional factors may yet be added. For anyone experiencing the effects of such a meal in the full before 1948 it might as well have been magic. No explanation was possible until the "protein mystery factor" was discovered and mis-identified for 10 years.

Magic? Who knows. It used to be.

Nibiru
12-27-2011, 05:39 AM
III Thank you for taking the time to provide this valuable information :) I will pass this on to my parents. My entire family is vegetarian, I have been for the last 25 years. So this could definitely be the cause of her problems. Perhaps I would be progressing faster myself if I were to take these supplements? I think I remember you posting links before of where these can be obtained, would you mind doing this again as I'm feeling rather lazy at the moment :)

As far as magic, it's true that many concepts are considered magic before we find a rational explanation, but I don't know if everything is able to be rationalized. The dream state fits this model of non-rational reality or magic. Another good example of this would be your personal descriptions of multiple realities and navigation of the after-life, as I would consider this a form of "magic"...

III
12-27-2011, 07:59 PM
III Thank you for taking the time to provide this valuable information :) I will pass this on to my parents. My entire family is vegetarian, I have been for the last 25 years. So this could definitely be the cause of her problems. Perhaps I would be progressing faster myself if I were to take these supplements? I think I remember you posting links before of where these can be obtained, would you mind doing this again as I'm feeling rather lazy at the moment :)

As far as magic, it's true that many concepts are considered magic before we find a rational explanation, but I don't know if everything is able to be rationalized. The dream state fits this model of non-rational reality or magic. Another good example of this would be your personal descriptions of multiple realities and navigation of the after-life, as I would consider this a form of "magic"...



As far as magic, it's true that many concepts are considered magic before we find a rational explanation, but I don't know if everything is able to be rationalized. The dream state fits this model of non-rational reality or magic. Another good example of this would be your personal descriptions of multiple realities and navigation of the after-life, as I would consider this a form of "magic

Magic is always a tempting explanation. Zombie powder was most mysterious until the active ingrediant was identified. If it is GROUNDHOG DAY all over agian for everybody, and somebody wakes up into that and is aware of the nature of it, and realises that everybody could wake up into it, then it ceases being magic and becomes something systematic. Magic mushrooms have psylocibin as an active ingrediant. When several people get together and invoke into "The Living God" is it magic or is it repeatable scientific metaphysics.

Is going into gnosis magic or a repeatable scientific metaphysics? Is Christ consciousness, Buddha consciousness etc magic or teachable repeatable scientific metaphysics? They are all built into the system. Anybody who knows how to open the door and who has fullfilled the requirements for doing so can do so. Anybody here read THE INCOMPLETE ENCHANTER or any of several sequals with Harrold Shay, the mathematical shaman. Calculus is magic brought to us by an Alchemist. For what is called magic as far as I can see there is ALWAYS another explanation. Sufficiently advanced magic looks like technology. Another formulation by Clarke is that "a perfect machine has no moving parts" (AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT, THE CITY AND THE STARS). 100 years ago a machine with no moving parts was a fantasy, magic if you will. Of course if you consider electrons as moving parts meeting that definition becomes more difficult. So many of our devices now have no moving parts except the power switch and our fingers or other body parts that are not technically part of the device.

I have a very simple yet puzzling to many toy that is a fake perpetual motion machine. It is a disguised electric motor. The perpetual motion machine is also a familiar con game for turning bullshit into gold.

An old quote from John W. Campbell Jr - "Science is the art of making the obvious so to everybody". Magic on the other hand depends on being hidden and not understood.

Take a look at different ways of thinking - Philosophy, magic, theology, law, scientific method, systems analysis, engineering. Each of these allow us to build models in our heads, energy and information patterns if you wish, that might have very real effects if well done or even badly.

Baking a successful cake from scratch without a proven recipe can certainly look like magic.

Ghislain
12-27-2011, 08:15 PM
For many years I was disillusioned with Religion. If I were to read something and it mentioned
anything spiritual or Godly a trigger would spring in my mind and I would have to cease reading with
the impression that anything further was going to be hocus-pocus that couldn’t be proved.

Science however had formulae with mathematics, chemistry and other genre; formulae that could
be repeated with given results. I somehow felt that I was not going to part the Red Sea or change
water into wine etc...

Today my views have somewhat changed and I am very open to other modes of rationalisation.

This is not to say that science and logic doesn’t have its place. What follows is a problem I once saw
posed and the result of which may be quite enlightening from a logical point of view.

The Question to Consider

A Quiz Master offers you one of three boxes, one of the boxes contains a prize and he knows which
box the prize is in.

After you have made your box choice the Quiz Master reveals one of the empty boxes (not including yours)
and asks if you would like to change your box for the other box that was not revealed.

What would you do?

If you have not heard of this before, ponder on your answer for a while...you may have already
picked the prize...there is only one box that could contain the prize if yours doesn’t

HERE ( http://genius.toucansurf.com/box%20selector.jpg) are the results of running the game 20 times with the result for keeping the original box and
the result for swapping the box.

It is laid out as follows:

• Column A contains a random selection of the box which contains the prize.
• Column C, D and E give a visual representation of the above boxes
• Column H is a randomly selected first choice
• Column K is the known empty box revealed by the Quiz Master
• Column M holds the result if the original box is kept, with the total number of wins at the bottom
• Column O contains the box number for the swap
• Column Q holds the result if the box is swapped, with the total number of wins at the bottom

The program for this is zipped in an Excel file HERE ( http://genius.toucansurf.com/box%20selector.7z). If you want to try it for yourself click on the link
and open the zip file. Click on the Excel file to open it. Select an empty box (cell) and press delete to
recalculate and then run the program multiple times to see the results.

Was your logic correct?

The logic goes as follows:

The first choice was made with a 1 in 3 chance of winning, If you don’t swap that is the odds of you
winning.

If the swap were to be made you would have a 1 in 2 chance of winning; more in your favour.

Logic says always swap. You won’t always win but you will win more often than not.

To make it clearer what is happening imagine your choice was from 1 in 20 boxes and the Quiz
Master showed you 18 empty boxes. Your chance of winning without the swap is 1 in 20.

There is an ulterior motive for me posing this enigma. In post #22 of this thread I posted a video.
Within this video some odd scientific revelations are made which I thought might spur some
questionable debate. Is science going to find the truth?

I would love to hear some views on the information contained in the video.

Ghislain

True Initiate
12-30-2011, 12:19 PM
Everything is infused with this divine breath of the Spiritus Mundi, this has no bearing or impact on whether things are or are not "spontaneously generated" from this or that materia. I think you are making the fatal mistake of forgetting that axiom of the philosophers: that they are never more obscure as when they appear to be speaking clearly. They do this because those who have done the work and made contact with the Order can, through appropriate techniques, judge the sense or spirit of the words and understand what lives under the dead husk of the words. true philosophers have pointed out the need for the male and female seeds in generation, such as Sendivogius.

But, as someone else has said on this thread, it is easy to denigrate what we do not understand and claim that the philosophers believed fantasies. Thankfully I have the clear evidence of my senses and my mind which I have not lost, to tell me that what is said in concord between the brothers of our Order is correct.

Fraternally,
-m

Hi vega33,

Everybody has a right to his own opinion. The reason why i downplay SM is because they attributed him too many functions which have nothing to do with SM like putrefaction! Putrefaction hasn't anything to do with SM but everything with bacteriological activity.

By the way what's the name of your Order?