PDA

View Full Version : White Powdered Gold



Frater IA
01-10-2012, 06:45 PM
Took some white powdered gold for the first time last night. I believe it gave me a headache, or caused something already inside me to give me a headache. Regardless, I purchased some more today, from the below link. (not trying to give a sales pitch only using it as a reference, I imagine getting a headache from a substance isn't a very good sales pitch anyway). I was told that its fairly common to get "seemingly" adverse effects from these products because they can push out toxins and poisons already in the body, and during that process they are introduced back into your system, and they are what causes the adverse effects. Anyway. This stuff isn't just white powdered gold, its actually a few white powdered metals mixed together to create a nice little panacea powder. ;p So I'll try to keep you guys up to date on the long term effects of taking this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONATOMIC-GOLD-WHITE-POWDER-GOLD-ORMUS-ORME-MSTATE-/170366856997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27aaa7ef25#ht_6043wt_1160

theFool
01-10-2012, 11:03 PM
2.5 gr of gold for 11.25$ ? Seems like scam.

Ghislain
01-11-2012, 12:40 AM
IA I have always thought of Ormus as I do snake-oil probably due to my ignorance,
but due to my scepticism I did some checking out of the link you gave.

Below is what I found:

The first image came from http://www.chinapost.com.tw

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/news_images/20081218/p12b.jpg

Couldn’t find the pic on the site but found it in Google images and it belongs to
http://www.jandbgoldbuyers.com

It would appear NASA does their research
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stardust/mission/index-curation-rd.html

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/137509main_jsc-curation-250.jpg

The Ormus pic is probably just that, but the pic is from subtleenergies.com

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/ozone.htm

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/mgold007.jpg

The next pic is of Barium Sulphate used as a powder coating pigment, xray enhancement, glass making.
http://www.global-b2b-network.com/b2b/17/24/585/page1/213809/barium_sulfate.html

http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50164616/Barium_Sulfate.jpg

Below is what they have to say about their business.


Business Information
History/background

Monatomic Gold, our featured product, is a precious mineral complex that provides
high levels of monatomic minerals. The modality of these minerals appear to be
solely electromagnetic, rather than biochemical. This makes the patterning similar, if
not identical to the same pattern that energy flows when it is transmuted into matter.
Our Monatomic Gold is not salt, nor is it an alchemical solution. We use the same
methods as David Hudson, as found by his original discoveries. Monatomic Gold is
believed by Ancient Civilizations to help us reach heightened states of
consciousness and awareness. It is also believed to offer a superior calm clarity
during prayer, meditation and relaxation. Monatomic Gold minerals are
superconductive, changing cellular structure into one that is also superconductive.

I have some questions here too:


"This makes the patterning similar, if not identical to the same pattern that energy flows when it is
transmuted into matter."

What is the pattern of energy as it transmutes into matter?


"Monatomic Gold is believed by Ancient Civilizations to help us reach heightened states of
consciousness and awareness."

OK it was believed by the ancients, but shouldn't they know, after all they are selling it?

They go on to say, "It is also believed to offer a superior calm clarity during prayer, meditation and
relaxation". Again they should know this...they sound like they are reviewing someone else's product that they
haven't tried.

And finally:


"Monatomic Gold minerals are superconductive, changing cellular structure into one that is also superconductive"

Easily checked with a multimeter...it should show zero resistance.

I look forward to your reviews on it IA

Ghislain

Frater IA
01-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Will do! I have plenty of buddies with multimeters, lol, so we will test this stuff out. I'm sure there is a bit of talking up their product, because they aren't just selling this to awakened and enlightened people, other people looking for "other" types of medicine for various reasons might come across it and decide to try it, so they might need a little coaxing. Regardless, the woman that passed it on to me is one I trust, and she has openly visited the lab it is created in. It should be in, in about a day or two more.

theFool
01-11-2012, 10:22 PM
I wonder from what kind of starting material they make this thing. Obviously they do not start with gold.

rogerc
01-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Mostly they do the sea salt precip. so called ormus method. They don't bother to do the essene's black sand sodium burn method because its takes too long and is pretty dangerous.....a co-worker was just burned very badly on 60% of his body by 200 degree sodium hydroxide solution that splashed on him while trying to clean stainless steel processing tanks...it pretty much dissolved his face....its pretty bad. Beware of hot lye

Frater IA
01-12-2012, 03:18 PM
theFool, do you have a link to a reputable place that sells it for less money? I imagine that being a laboratory alot of what you pay for is purity and quality control. Which I have no problem paying for, however, if you can show me a better option, I would love to take a look. As well, its not just gold, they are selling it as white powdered gold, however, if you scroll down the page you'll see they add platnium, silver, rhodium, iridium, and some other stuff in their powdered mix.

theFool
01-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Mostly they do the sea salt precip. so called ormus method. They don't bother to do the essene's black sand sodium burn method because its takes too long and is pretty dangerous.....a co-worker was just burned very badly on 60% of his body by 200 degree sodium hydroxide solution that splashed on him while trying to clean stainless steel processing tanks...it pretty much dissolved his face....its pretty bad. Beware of hot lye
Aww, yes its pretty nasty especially when molten, even at normal temperature it can make the skin into soap. It also can leach through glass, open hole and land on your lap.


As well, its not just gold, they are selling it as white powdered gold, however, if you scroll down the page you'll see they add platnium, silver, rhodium, iridium, and some other stuff in their powdered mix.

I think they supposse those metals are in there, they don't add them by turning their metallic counterparts into m-state. I noticed that information also in their ebay page, thats why I was curious about their starting material.


theFool, do you have a link to a reputable place that sells it for less money? I imagine that being a laboratory alot of what you pay for is purity and quality control. Which I have no problem paying for, however, if you can show me a better option, I would love to take a look.
First, as Ghislain showed, those people don't have a laboratory. If they had they would put their own pics online and wouldn't "borrow" them from a google search.

In Barry's website, there is a list of suppliers: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/sources.htm
It is not easy to pick someone out of the list, because I haven't tried them (I make my own stuff and I always use KOH, not NaOH). Judging from what I read, I would try here: http://www.oceanalchemy.com and here: http://www.cherokeegold.net

About who is cheaper, I don't even look that, don't play with your health.

Other advice I would give to myself before some years is:
- If you can't make something by yourself, this is a strong indicator that you aren't ready yet to ingets it.
- Trap water is the safest (after all its just water!)
- Sea salt ormus is OK and fairly safe (just concentrated salt).
- M3 is not suitable for a beginner, it has loong half life and is strong.
- About pure gold m-state from gold metal, I don't think that there exists someone who can manufacture this thing.
What you usually get when you hear of m-state gold is either an inert white powder or a poisonous one. Just test it on a plant, usually they die. If you are hellbent to try a white powder maybe try this: http://www.cherokeegold.net/jhp.html

Be safe, good luck!

PS. rogerc I wish your coworker get well, its a pity for those kind of accidents to happen in the workplace.

theFool
01-12-2012, 11:44 PM
- About pure gold m-state from gold metal, I don't think that there exists someone who can manufacture this thing.
Well, I take this back, check this guy here: http://www.atlantisalchemy.com/wpg.htm
He asks you to send your gold and he returns it as white powder, cool hehe!

Ghislain
01-13-2012, 12:09 AM
T.F. call me Mr. Negative, but can you test white powder gold for its gold content?

If not then how would one know if what you recieve contains gold at all?

And the "two and a half bottles", whats that about...use different size bottles!

It's the powder one is after. I could produce 2 1/2 gallons of it with the same amount of powder.
Would that sound like a better deal? But then I would want to keep half a gallon, doesnt sound
as good as his 4oz.

Ghislain

theFool
01-13-2012, 12:46 AM
T.F. call me Mr. Negative, but can you test white powder gold for its gold content?


You cannot test white powder gold for its gold content without a serious chem-lab, only by its effects. A good idea also would be to check if it is magnetic. Gold, silver and copper monoatoms have been found to become magnetic by mainstream science too.


If not then how would one know if what you recieve contains gold at all?
The seller could just keep the gold and return to you a white powder, yes it is possible. It is an issue of trust.

You can always make it yourself to be sure. But it is definately not recommended as it is a dangerous process. Even if you succeed there lies a greater danger, it is very strong, you have no idea what you are getting into. Stick to the water and the salt.

rogerc
01-13-2012, 02:24 AM
I side with Ghislain and The Fool...I have bought these white powders from everyone out there.....none of them use pure gold....Joe Lello of atlantisalchemy and don nance of ocean alchemy have made ormus solutions in the past when gold was cheaper but never did they sell a white powder..... I myself tried David Hudson's method on half an ounce of pure gold and after 100 ph swings and 100 cycles of wetting with hydrochloric and boiling to just dry I still have a purple gold hydroxide...no white anomolous powder ormes, still tests as gold....seems this superdeformed- nucleus, cooper- pair state is more ellusive than everybody makes out....the problem is with Barry's website....its mostly psuedo-science than anything else anchored in David Hudson's claims which were all bogus to begin with....and no where rooted in classical alchemy. But I will say that I bought Don Nance's products for a period of a few years and I did notice effects.

Now after all that I will tell you there is one guy out there...... in Hong Kong named Seekverta that runs a website called tibetangold.com...I have mentioned it before....now he does use pure gold in his red lion product......which is just an inert purple gold hydroxide once again, and if left for a while it does turn back into bright shiney yellow gold...this product I bought and consumed for many years as well and its quite expensive at 99 dollars a gram which sounds more like what it should cost ...doesn't it? It tests out as pure gold. Recently he started selling a white powder gold that he claims is begun with pure gold as well which goes for $95......and he seems to me to be the one guy who would be reputable since I know beyond a shadow of a doubt he does use precious metals.....but once again how do we know? Cause according to Hudson once we do reach the white powder state is will no longer test as gold...because it has reached the superdeformed state and no longer responds to spectrographic analysis because of the cooper pairing....so the test would just come back as iron, alumina and silica. The real problem is atomic cluster size...to test as a metal....for gold we need three atom clusters or it displays none of the qualities that make it a metal....what's more is once in this state it will not "fall" back to metal without a proton donating element.

theFool
01-13-2012, 10:08 AM
I myself tried David Hudson's method on half an ounce of pure gold and after 100 ph swings and 100 cycles of wetting with hydrochloric and boiling to just dry I still have a purple gold hydroxide...no white anomolous powder ormes, still tests as gold.
Here is the method which uses sodium metal: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/burn.htm
One can also try using molten NaOH or NaCl on gold (with NaCl you get quickly the purple gold, I have tested it) but I don't know if repeating this process many times can break the all the metallic bonds. The wet method (dissolving gold in acid) and ph swings seems also insufficient. To my opinion, only sodium metal has enough potential to break the metallic bonds.


but once again how do we know? Cause according to Hudson once we do reach the white powder state is will no longer test as gold...because it has reached the superdeformed state and no longer responds to spectrographic analysis because of the cooper pairing It should behave magnetically. Other test could be Neutron activation analysis.

Frater IA
01-13-2012, 10:45 PM
Hey, got my package today in the mail, it came with what I ordered plus a smaller vile (probably about a gram) of the powdered rose gold. Supposedly stronger. Right now I have 1/8 of a teaspoon under my tongue so I'll make note of any difference that I feel throughout the next 48 hours roughly.

Thank you guys for all the information, I am definately going to pass this on to those who recommended it to me and see what they can tell me about it, and the process used by the seller.

solomon levi
01-15-2012, 03:05 PM
I see the ormus process in classical alchemy quite often.
Many authors mention precipitating gold calx from gold chloride solutions.
And in Splendor Solis they mention "she gives the man a purple robe".
Gold, silver and iron can be given purple robes (probably other metals too -
I know of these for certain).
This is an important part of alchemy where the sulphur is revealed - that gold
is indeed in all metals as its seed.

What is "classical"? It refers to a period, no? Not a "type" or method of alchemy.
Moses turned the golden calf into white powder. Sounds like a classic to me. :)

rogerc
01-16-2012, 08:16 AM
What is "classical"? It refers to a period, no? Not a "type" or method of alchemy.
Moses turned the golden calf into white powder. Sounds like a classic to me. :)

Exodus 32:20
He took the calf that they had made and burned it with fire and ground it to powder and scattered it on the water and made the people of Israel drink it.


You and I both know what "fire" Moses used to "burn" / calcinate the gold with......it was the same "water" he summoned from the rock....the dry water that burns gold like fire.


I spoke of classical in regard to Hudson's lectures......he doesn't know classical alchemy....he doesn't quote the classics in support of his work.....and mostly because his work had nothing to do with alchemy as it relates to the classical texts.

Frater IA
01-17-2012, 03:41 PM
Daily intake with me and my wife has had no ill effects. Reiki work seems to be a little more sensative, however, it is the only thing I've been doing much of lately. As well, I am also eating vegetarian, as I have for several weeks, so that might have been what effected that as such.

solomon levi
01-18-2012, 09:57 PM
Exodus 32:20

You and I both know what "fire" Moses used to "burn" / calcinate the gold with......it was the same "water" he summoned from the rock....the dry water that burns gold like fire.


I spoke of classical in regard to Hudson's lectures......he doesn't know classical alchemy....he doesn't quote the classics in support of his work.....and mostly because his work had nothing to do with alchemy as it relates to the classical texts.

Okay. But I'm not convinced that classical authors didn't know about metallic sodium/potassium.
Perhaps this is what is generated as fusible salt after many fusions and solutions, or combining sea salt
with urine or limestone or vinegar... Why not?
Today we can make metallic sodium from sodium hydroxide/lye and magnesium metal. Maybe they did
the same in the past. Maybe that's one reason to prepare magnesia alba.

I just don't like to know anything for certain - to be so certain as to disregard other possibilities.
Moses could have known of many dry waters/fires.
They do not describe the gold melting like ice in a water which does not wet the hands.
He would have had to prepare a lot of water to melt a golden calf, although we don't know the dimensions of the calf.
And then the calf would have to be made into leaves. This is not described.
But a large portion of sodium metal would do the trick.

rogerc
01-18-2012, 10:53 PM
Okay. But I'm not convinced that classical authors didn't know about metallic sodium/potassium.
Perhaps this is what is generated as fusible salt after many fusions and solutions, or combining sea salt
with urine or limestone or vinegar... Why not?
Today we can make metallic sodium from sodium hydroxide/lye and magnesium metal. Maybe they did
the same in the past. Maybe that's one reason to prepare magnesia alba.

I just don't like to know anything for certain - to be so certain as to disregard other possibilities.
Moses could have known of many dry waters/fires.
They do not describe the gold melting like ice in a water which does not wet the hands.
He would have had to prepare a lot of water to melt a golden calf, although we don't know the dimensions of the calf.
And then the calf would have to be made into leaves. This is not described.
But a large portion of sodium metal would do the trick.

Well you have a point there about a sodium burn.....but Moshe orginated from the waters and he commanded them at will, this took place after he struck the rock the first time, so he did have access to them at this time, it just that ormus users don't know alchemy like we do, they know nothing of spiritus mundi, pure or in alkahest form, for me their methods are purely chemical and border on low spragerical....I see no alchemy except when they deal with a matter of polarities, and on this point is why I thought the method of ph swinging with acid then base would .....after a while attract some SM and do the solving but like I said above I tried one hundred of them and to no avail. The breaking of metallic bonds this way is confirmed by science......but this is not the way gold disappears in SM.

Frater IA
01-23-2012, 04:37 AM
Well, physically I feel fine, not much has changed via my body. HOWEVER, my light body feels completely different. My clairvoyance is highly heightened, clarity of mind is wonderful from this! Scrying, astral vision, even my thoughts and concentration during divination seems improved. My concentration while in classes or conversation seems to be improved as well. While I don't quite consider myself a daily user, I will probably continue to purchase this from time to time to get an added boost of ability. As far as I can tell the monotomic metals build up inside you and stay there, so you never lose it.

solomon levi
01-23-2012, 09:37 PM
I used to know quite a bit about ormus, or m-state as the Essene called it.
I have info stashed away in notes somewhere - most of it is no longer accessible
to my immediate memory. But I kind of recall something about the rhodium and iridium
being used in the body to repair cells and health. The gold is strictly for spiritual.
It does accumulate in the nervous system and brain. It makes the connections between neurons
faster, quicker, and this gives you a foot up on time. (is that the right phrase? foot up? step up?)

The Essene also said that coffee depletes m-state, and it wasn't because of the caffeine.
I don't know if anyone else has verified that. Are you a coffee drinker Frater IA?

solomon levi
01-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Well you have a point there about a sodium burn.....but Moshe orginated from the waters and he commanded them at will, this took place after he struck the rock the first time, so he did have access to them at this time, it just that ormus users don't know alchemy like we do, they know nothing of spiritus mundi, pure or in alkahest form, for me their methods are purely chemical and border on low spragerical....I see no alchemy except when they deal with a matter of polarities, and on this point is why I thought the method of ph swinging with acid then base would .....after a while attract some SM and do the solving but like I said above I tried one hundred of them and to no avail. The breaking of metallic bonds this way is confirmed by science......but this is not the way gold disappears in SM.

Yeah, I can agree with that assessment of ormus as it is. But maybe it can go further and people don't know about it yet or talk about it.
To me, this is using the gold salt/calx alone, which we would expect some benefits from. Who's to say the sulfur and mercury cannot
be added if people weren't looking for the quick fix, easy path? I wonder if we can imbibe this gold calx/ormus with the sulfur of iron?
I'm also considering imbibing lime with the oil of iron.

Frater IA
01-24-2012, 12:21 AM
As a matter of fact I am a coffee drinker, so are the other three people taking the ormu, so I will be sure to look around for some reasoning behind that and talk with the others.

Frater IA
02-08-2012, 02:27 PM
The wife and I finisehd 5 grams of the monotomic gold, and I finished 1 gram of the rose gold by myself. So far mixed with the vegetarian/vegan diet we are both feeling far better than ever before, our clarity during meditive work exceeds anything we've experienced before as well. I will probably order more soon when I get around to it. At the moment my finances are needed elsewhere.

Purplexity
09-25-2012, 06:58 AM
Is it possible that gold could become worthless if those in charge can turn lead and other metals in to gold, they could flood the economy with gold but they choose to do the opposite and deposit large amounts of gold so the price goes up..?

Ezalor
11-29-2012, 05:04 AM
I'm reading around here in the ORMUS section but don't seem to find what I look for. I already learned that "ORMUS" is a modern thing, which claims to be based old alchemical processes. Now, I don't care for the modern stuff, nor for the all kinds of crazy claims and (pseudo)scientific approaches. I want to know only one thing:

What is the actual alchemical process or material that they claim to be the old version of ORMUS?

The only thing I found so far is Glauber's short description of getting gold from sea water. I think my problem is that the threads and hosts here are by people who are already into this, but I so far just want to get the basics.

Andro
11-29-2012, 05:37 AM
I'm reading around here in the ORMUS section but don't seem to find what I look for. I already learned that "ORMUS" is a modern thing, which claims to be based old alchemical processes.
Now, I don't care for the modern stuff, nor for the all kinds of crazy claims and (pseudo)scientific approaches.

It can be difficult to discern, because there is so much info on this, as well as claims that this is not at all 'modern' stuff, but merely revived old knowledge, perhaps only applied with more 'modern' methods...


I want to know only one thing: What is the actual alchemical process or material that they claim to be the old version of ORMUS?

I think you may find some starting clues to this currently 'tricky' question on the subtleenergies (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/index.htm) website.


I so far just want to get the basics.

The one person on this forum whom I myself directly know to currently (at this time) be engaged in serious, rigorous and dedicated Ormus research and production is theFool (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?50-theFool).

There are others as well, I just either don't know who they are, or don't know if they are currently involved with Ormus research :o

So maybe just wait until he (or another researcher) visits here again, or try to PM or email him directly through the forum's email function...

However, I'd recommend to have this discussion in the open, so that everyone can benefit from it :)

lwowl
11-29-2012, 04:35 PM
It can be difficult to discern, because there is so much info on this, as well as claims that this is not at all 'modern' stuff, but merely revived old knowledge, perhaps only applied with more 'modern' methods...



I think you may find some starting clues to this currently 'tricky' question on the subtleenergies (http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/index.htm) website.



The one person on this forum whom I myself directly know to currently (at this time) be engaged in serious, rigorous and dedicated Ormus research and production is theFool (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?50-theFool).

There are others as well, I just either don't know who they are, or don't know if they are currently involved with Ormus research :o

So maybe just wait until he (or another researcher) visits here again, or try to PM or email him directly through the forum's email function...

However, I'd recommend to have this discussion in the open, so that everyone can benefit from it :)

I've done many "ORMUS" experiments in the past out of curiosity. I've done the process on Celtic sea salt and have tested the purple crystal product made from Au. It's a combination of expectation/anticipation and placebo effect initiated by BS and hype elevated to grandiose proportions. Many people have poisoned themselves with heavy metal compounds following the ORMUS nostrums. (My observations and conclusions based upon experimental experience.)

One unfortunate alchemy pilgrim, NickDC just recently died following ORMUS nostrums.

The only really interesting effect comes from magnetically charging water through a vortex spinner which I have made and used. There is a perceived sweet "weirdness" that can be charged into the right water.

One can skip the vortex generator and charge the water directly with the three Treasures through the palm of the hands and the solar plexus.

lwowl

Krisztian
11-29-2012, 09:26 PM
I've done many "ORMUS" experiments in the past out of curiosity. I've done the process on Celtic sea salt and have tested the purple crystal product made from Au. It's a combination of expectation/anticipation and placebo effect initiated by BS and hype elevated to grandiose proportions. Many people have poisoned themselves with heavy metal compounds following the ORMUS nostrums. (My observations and conclusions based upon experimental experience.)

I also followed the evolution of the research around ORMUS since Hudson made the claims. Fact or fiction, either way, ORMUS is a mirror substance. Consciousness that impregnates it during the process determines the strength when ingested. In other words, in the hands of a master of the Art, you wouldn't be able to take the liquid for extended periods of time because it's strength will overwhelm your psyché. It comes on very subtle, but before one knows it, objects, people, places, life events, become completely absorbed by or entangled with the one who takes ORMUS. It's sheer terror for the uninitiated! Like a very real nightmare!

You'll also sleep like a newborn. Less sleep needed to rejuvenate, circa. 2 to 3 hours less each night.

For another interesting journey, one may sleep in a large copper pyramid or, pyramid made out of other natural materials (each naturally-occurring material influences different psychic organs), and take ORMUS simultaneously. One pyramid that can house a queen-sized bed is sufficient.


The only really interesting effect comes from magnetically charging water through a vortex spinner which I have made and used. There is a perceived sweet "weirdness" that can be charged into the right water.

I also made the 'vortex gun', as they call it, with giant magnets. I enjoyed the experience.

My point is, no disrespect given in any way, it doesn't matter how you make ORMUS or what you do with it, what matters is who you are. For whatever you are energizes the mirror substance.

Ezalor
11-30-2012, 02:56 AM
I'm the type of person who dislikes most of our "modern" technology, and believes that most things we use modern machines for nowadays should be rather done the old ways, and one believing that modern technology and spirituality are impossible to bring together, I find no interest in any of these "spiritual technology". But if there is indeed something here which is of true spiritual nature, then it for sure can be done the old ways, and that I'm interested in.

I've checked the subtleenergies website already before posting here, but gave it up after reading through a big pile of baseless pseudoscientific things.

Let's then look from the other way:



Does such as mono-atomic precious metals really exist?
If yes, can we find any proof that any of the old alchemists made it? (For example, is the gold extracted by Glauber's method mono-atomic?)
Do we know any old reference to "white powdered gold"?

Krisztian
12-01-2012, 01:31 AM
I'm the type of person who dislikes most of our "modern" technology, and believes that most things we use modern machines for nowadays should be rather done the old ways, and one believing that modern technology and spirituality are impossible to bring together, I find no interest in any of these "spiritual technology". But if there is indeed something here which is of true spiritual nature, then it for sure can be done the old ways, and that I'm interested in.

The 'vortex gun' is not a technology per say. It uses magnets around a long shaft. It works the same way as, say, a waterfall does in the Amazon, except for the later, well, it uses gravity. Both charge the water particles, like a thunderstorm does. No electricity involved. Cleopatra used magnets for beautifying. The Ancients employed 'magnetic rocks'.

If one uses 'vulgar fire', a hotplate, then that's also technology. But most certainly, yes, I do feel the same way Ezalor.

Pyramid structures in general are quite interesting. The Ancients initiated their disciples inside such structures. 'White powder' has a strong lineage from Middle East. From Egypt? Yes. That's where the connection is made, I believe. A pyramid made out of copper or wood, I can only speak of things I experimented with only, do play with the psychic organ especially when the white powder is taken simultaneously.


I've checked the subtleenergies website already before posting here, but gave it up after reading through a big pile of baseless pseudoscientific things.

I agree.

My humble suggestion is, make it first, follow Hudson's recipe. Don't eat it. If one is to follow an advice, follow Zosimos of Panopolis. Alchemy is without a doubt a 'psychophysical approach'. If it isn't, then we're merely modern chemists, what they referred to as 'Puffers'. In other words, connect with the spirit of the substance psychically! That harbours the greatest wisdom: personal experience.

Then, you can make your own conclusions. If I may also say so, don't rely on the intellect alone. That places one in the company of Puffers.

Thanks for the dialogue Ezalor. Forgive me for the long post.

solomon levi
12-02-2012, 01:58 PM
I'm reading around here in the ORMUS section but don't seem to find what I look for. I already learned that "ORMUS" is a modern thing, which claims to be based old alchemical processes. Now, I don't care for the modern stuff, nor for the all kinds of crazy claims and (pseudo)scientific approaches. I want to know only one thing:

What is the actual alchemical process or material that they claim to be the old version of ORMUS?

The only thing I found so far is Glauber's short description of getting gold from sea water. I think my problem is that the threads and hosts here are by people who are already into this, but I so far just want to get the basics.

One simple old process was to burn certain plants to an alkaline salt/ash
and add that to salt water (ocean or alkali lakes, the Dead sea), precipitating the ormus materials.

Moses is also cited in turning the golden calf into something he fed the people.

theFool
12-02-2012, 09:10 PM
What is the actual alchemical process or material that they claim to be the old version of ORMUS?


Ezalor, you can find connections of ormus and alchemy in alchemical texts about how to prepare calx of gold. Many authors have spoken on how to prepare this white calx with various methods. Indian alchemy works also a lot the concept of making metals (eg. mercury, gold) into their calxes for medicinal usage.
Not all kind of white calxes are best for consumption. In general, the more one works on the metal, the better it becomes, sometimes it needs months, years to yield the safest preparation. A half processed calx appears to be white but it can still have some kind of toxicity, together with the beneficial effects.

According to my opinion, what Hudson (the orme inventor) did was to "modernize" this process and offer us tools which can accomplish it quicker and more efficient. He also claimed that this form of matter can be found in nature (rocks, air, sea, living organisms) and that it is essential for life.



Does such as mono-atomic precious metals really exist?
If yes, can we find any proof that any of the old alchemists made it? (For example, is the gold extracted by Glauber's method mono-atomic?)
Do we know any old reference to "white powdered gold"?

Unfortunatelly the existence of the monoatoms is difficult to prove. My current opinion is that they probably are a gas. When they are in solid form (white powder) they are usually attached to other atoms (eg. sodium according to Hudsons patent). The ormus that is harvested from the wild (by Barry's Cartes methods) is usually attached to MgOH or AlOH. If you run a chemical analysis on the ormus precipitates, you are supposed to find some extra weight, shown by the balance but not shown in the spectrographic analysis. This is the objective proof of their existence, which of course, I haven't witnessed yet.

In my opinion, the purest form of ormus one can find is the ormus coming from the magnetic traps. It alters the properties of the water (oiliness) and I think it can be measured objectively (however, I haven't done this). As you see the field is still open for research, but I feel that ormus is a great key to open alchemy (or at least a part of it).

You ask about alchemical references. I hope I can find some later this week. We already had a thread on ormus and alchemy if I remember well. Also if you have the book "the way of the crucible", there are a lot of references gathered there on the chapter about gold.

Krisztian
12-02-2012, 10:22 PM
According to my opinion, what Hudson (the ormus inventor) did was to "modernize" this process and offer us tools which can accomplish it quicker and more efficient. He also claimed that the "ormus" can be found in nature (rocks, air, sea, living organisms) and that it is essential for life.

I haven't done so, but certain organic carrot juices, grown in various areas of the world (i.e., Midwestern US), also contain relatively good amounts.


As you see the field is still open for research, but I feel that ormus is a great key to open alchemy (or at least a part of it).

I also believe that the field of research on ORMUS does contribute to alchemy. It's a branch of it. I just don't see how a merely intellectual pursuit of it can merit full credit. . . . From psychic sensitivity, I've heard the ORMUS, one time in particular, the living essence, sort of cry out when I once "accidentally" left the cover off the pot I was heating it up in. (It left in the condensation, in the cloud of heat, not unlike the depiction of some alchemical Plates of the 'white dove ascending'.) During that process, my psychic experience was confirmed by the physical evidence that majority of the liquid contained very little, if any ORMUS.

Thanks theFool for your contributions!

theFool
12-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Some references on white powder of gold in alchemy can be found in this thread Is-m-state-alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?341-Is-m-state-alchemy)
A quote from Agricola (http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy/agricola.htm):

Then it [gold] is correctly and well calcined, and you may be sure that you cannot get a better calcination. It will become so subtle that it can easily be used in medicines for several sicknesses without any further preparation, for this calx is sweet and not contaminated by any corrosives.
and from John French in "The art of distillation":

Dissolve pure fine gold in aqua regis according to art (..) which clear solution put into a large glass of a wide neck and upon it pour drop by drop oil of tartar made per deliquium, until the aqua regis which before was yellow becomes clear and white, for that is a sign that all calx of gold is settled to the bottom. Then let it stand all night, and in the morning pour off the clear liquor, and wash the calx four or five times with common spring water, being warmed, and dry it with a most gentle heat.
I remember also clearly some of Glauber's texts referring to it (e.g. atoms of gold precipitated by alcohol).

Ezalor
12-03-2012, 02:50 PM
My problem is, that this doesn't make sense.

Nobody knows what ORMUS is. Nobody knows what is true about Hudson's patent. Nobody knows how to truly define ORMUS. Nobody knows how to identify ORMUS. Umm... So in the end, we have a term, which has no clear definition, and we have some substances that cannot be told apart or identified, and we put the two together. In this way, you can pretty much call anything you like ORMUS.

So facts:
1; Old alchemists made some substances from gold.
2; Some of you made some substances by precipitation.
3; Hudson describes something he calls ORMEs.

Now problem is: As of yet there seems to be 0% factual connection between any of those three facts, and 100% speculation about their connections.


So why would we want to build anything on a nonexistent basis? I mean, if you had good experience with your precipitates, it is great! But why call it ORMUS? You don't need a popular term to describe something that does work, there is no need to put it in a labeled box. Once again, the old alchemists' methods, it is really interesting, but why call it ORMUS? No need to put that in the labeled box either.

Both the work you personally do and experience, and the old writings have a basis. But this ORMES theory doesn't really. So I wouldn't mix the two together.

I hope I managed to express clearly what I mean.

Krisztian
12-04-2012, 01:21 AM
Nobody knows what ORMUS is. Nobody knows what is true about Hudson's patent. Nobody knows how to truly define ORMUS. Nobody knows how to identify ORMUS. Umm... So in the end, we have a term, which has no clear definition, and we have some substances that cannot be told apart or identified, and we put the two together. In this way, you can pretty much call anything you like ORMUS.

It may be, that what modern alchemists call ORMUS is merely another name describing what 16th Century Europeans called First Matter.

That's why the only sure way to know, is to have an experience with it. Then, no need for labels.

SolX
12-06-2012, 02:12 AM
i have not read this post. there is no need to. please i beg you1 do not ingest monatomic. DANGER ! DANGER WILL ROBISON!