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pteh
03-01-2012, 08:13 PM
I want to open a discussion very light, which could be useful for those who like me is starting the experiment.
Leaving aside the knowledges that you can have, more or less detailed, of good and humble man transparent (the transmission of truth) as was Fulcanelli, it would be interesting to mention the way he described in his works.
Apparently Fulcanelli indicates 2-way, leaving a glimpse of a third.
My opion of this wise man, cultured, eclectic, learn internet with a unique architecture and history of peoples, is that he continued in a very refined a method of communication very tight, encrypted, secrecy and confidentiality.
That said, in your opinion, if you've read and studied a little the character of Fulcanelli (leaving aside who he was in reality)
are we e sure that he has given an indication of different methods?
Those little information in my possession, by living artists who follow the dry way, through years and years of work, never ever produced satisfactory results.
They have produced a disproportionate amount of "Regolus" and "peacock tails" without further progress, or perhaps they have achieved, but without the necessary philosophy.
It seems strange that this person who has spoken with unprecedented transparency and professionalism, has given rise to a mass of followers is not productive.
I wish this thread would go on without reasoning too complicated alchemy without staying on the topic lead to sectarianism, Gnosticism, or strange Eastern rites.

* I apologize to the moderators if this section is not relevant, they can move, or if the other discussion thread is inherent and must be merged.

Androgynus
03-01-2012, 08:26 PM
Hi pteh,

1. From what has come to my knowledge so far, there are various groups who practice ways that they claim to be 'Direct oral transmissions from Fulcanelli', and they have only little in common (although tangential, IMO) with what is written in 'Mysteries' and 'Dwellings'.

2. If you intend this thread to deal mainly with the practical aspects of Fulcanelli-inspired Paths, then this section is the right place.
If, however, you intend it to be more about the Fulcanelli Persona - than this topic can be moved to another section, such as The Alchemists (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?61-The-Alchemists) or other more philosophically-oriented sections...
---------------------------------------------------------------

pteh
03-01-2012, 08:46 PM
Hi pteh,

1. From what has come to my knowledge so far, there are various groups who practice ways that they claim to be 'Direct oral transmissions from Fulcanelli', and they have only little in common (although tangential, IMO) with what is written in 'Mysteries' and 'Dwellings'.

Interesting, if you can share more info about the groups it would nice. ( of course what we can say in a forum )

2. If you intend this thread to deal mainly with the practical aspects of Fulcanelli-inspired Paths, then this section is the right place.
If, however, you intend it to be more about the Fulcanelli Persona - than this topic can be moved to another section, such as The Alchemists (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?61-The-Alchemists) or other more philosophically-oriented sections...
---------------------------------------------------------------

Yes practice of course, i would add some images from a great Italian talentous artist ( he's not me ).

A Salt:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/zKqpyp2

Venus:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/Df4B9fC

The Kitchen:
http://www.fileserve.com/file/2uf5cbK

Thank you Androgynus

Hellin Hermetist
03-01-2012, 10:24 PM
I am not sure which experiment you are planning to start. The martian regulus of antimony? Are you sure that Fulcanelli speaks about it in his works?

pteh
03-01-2012, 11:17 PM
Hello Hellin Hermetist,

I'm not sure what fulcanelli was talking, many people i know, they are trying with many kind of materials, so i can speak of what i am able to see and what they let me see.
I'm trying to understand if there are many ways or just one path related to Fulcanelli.
I have my point of view, it's an opinion, but Fulcanelli (the name talks a lot) has a story, we don't know his biography of course, but in its name there is an origin, his country is france, how many people there do you think could know a sacred secret ?
I think the dry path is a false way ( always referred to Fulcanelli of course).

Hellin Hermetist
03-01-2012, 11:30 PM
I suggest to try first the archemical experiments with lead and iron, which are described in great detail in the first part of Dwellings. That is a way to check his credibility and the possibility of extracting unknown chemical substances from metallic bodies.

Except from that, I don't believe that there are many things to learn from his books. Its better to study the olders who spoke more openly than him.

pteh
03-01-2012, 11:37 PM
I suggest to try first the archemical experiments with lead and iron, which are described in great detail in the first part of Dwellings. That is a way to check his credibility and the possibility of extracting unknown chemical substances from metallic bodies.

Except from that, I don't believe that there are many things to learn from his books. Its better to study the olders who spoke more openly than him.

I totally agree with what you have said, that's the point. And you have said it, with a marvelous marvelous simplicity.

solomon levi
03-02-2012, 05:45 PM
I may have this figured out but have yet to try it.
I've already mentioned it several times.

oak/alun/alum

"Know, my son, that our Stone is such that it cannot adequately be described in writing. For it is a stone, and becomes water through evaporation; yet it is no stone, and it by a chemical process it receives a watery form it is at first like any other liquid water, being a thin fluid; yet its nature is not like that of any other water upon earth. There is only one spring in all the world from which this water may be obtained. That spring is in Judaea, and is called, the Spring of the Saviour, or of beatitude. By the grace of God its situation was revealed to the Sages. It issues in a secret place, and its waters flow over all the world. It is familiar to all, yet none knows the principle, reason, or way to find the spring, or discover the way to Judaea. But whoever does not know the right spring will never attain to a knowledge of our Art. For this reason, that Sage might well exclaim, "O water of a harsh and bitter taste!" For, in truth, the spring is difficult to find; but he who knows it may reach it easily, without any expense, labour, or trouble. The water is, of its own nature, harsh and bitter, so that no one can partake of it; and, because it is of little use to the majority of markind the Sage doth also exclaim, "O water, that art lightly esteemed by the vulgar, who do not perceive thy great virtues, in thee lie, as it were, hid the four elements. Thou hast power to dissolve, and conserve, and join nature, such as is possessed by no other thing upon earth." If you would know the properties and appearance of this Stone, know that its appearance is aqueous, and that the water is first changed into a stone, then the stone into water, and the water at length into the Medicine. If you know the Stone without the method of its preparation, your knowledge can be of no more use to you than if you knew the right method without being acquainted with the true Matter. Therefore our hearts are filled with gratitude to God for both kinds of knowledge." - Gloria Mundi

I could be totally wrong here in answering to alum, but alum does indeed turn to a water upon "evaporation" or
applying heat before the waters are evaporated and a porous powder is left.

alum
early 14c., "whitish mineral salt used as an astringent, dye, etc.," from O.Fr. alum, from L. alumen
"alum," lit. "bitter salt," cognate with Gk. aludoimos "bitter" and Eng. ale.

There's a lot of biblical stuff that i don't have time to go into, but especially the recurring words
associated with weaving, braids, etc. that make sense only in one specific type of mineral.
The flax/linen is a large clue.
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&tok=ppuSLfzOjolO8oblqEG7wA&cp=23&gs_id=2i&xhr=t&q=amianthus+mountain+flax&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&pbx=1&oq=amianthus+mountain+flax&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&gs_l=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=82b0ba184381b439&biw=1441&bih=702

Let's consider briefly the tale of Rumpelstiltskin.
A miller's daughter is able to make gold from flax.
The miller? Miller of flax seeds. We have seen Fulcanelli reference the millstone/circle
as emblem of our solvent, which I claim refers to alum.

Particularly feather alum, perhaps the feathered/winged disc/circle/alum of the Egyptians.
Perhaps the feathered wings Daedalus ("cunning worker", "skilled craftsman") prepares for his son Icarus.
"In Homer's language, objects which are daidala are finely crafted. They are mostly objects of armour, but fine bowls
and furnishings are daidala, and on one occasion so are the "bronze-working" of "clasps, twisted brooches, earrings
and necklaces" made by Hephaestus while cared for in secret by the goddesses of the sea."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feather_alum
"Hair salt" - Esau, "hairy"... I've spoken of elsewhere.

Alums are double salts, this being referred to often in the works.

This is only a beginning to consider. There are related branches.
It may require ammonium. It may require iron or its introduction for a green lion.
Some branches which may be predecesors or aimed for products may be
other sulfates:
potassium sulfate - arcanum duplicatum, vitriolated tartar...
ammonium sulfate - secret "philosophical" sal ammoniac
sodium sulfate - admirabile salt
or maybe the use of any of these sulfates to make liver of sulfur "red red", Jacob's porridge).

As long as I am alone in this area, I will say no more.
I could be wrong. :)

Oh - also worthy of consideration the lantern of the hand analogies and my recent post of Holland
in using alum to congeal mercury, another sign one may be in the right way.

solomon levi
03-06-2012, 02:43 PM
Shit. I think I realised a different matter today.
Have you read this old thread?
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?356-The-Secret-Fire-of-the-Philosophers

pteh
03-06-2012, 09:59 PM
Hello,

Thank you Solomon Levi, very interesting thread, thank you.

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 12:35 AM
You're welcome.
I hate to comment on it after Pierre went so far not to mention it.

alfr
03-07-2012, 03:29 AM
You're welcome.
I hate to comment on it after Pierre went so far not to mention it.


hi sollom and every body

Solomon thanks is really very interesting the old thread that you gave the link i am totally agree with the reasoning of Pierre about the salt that is extracted from the Prima Materia .and very interesting is about it the quote by pierre of the manuscript liber super textum hermetis of the autor alchimist Ortolan Paris

So now for further made more deep this research i put here, therefore, to attach to you and for all the links to a pdf ...., Desarrollo y Madurez del Concepto de Quintaesencia Alquímica en la Europa Medieval (s. XII-XIV).
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:k4gTS3wMN2AJ:ramsdigital.com/toc/SMARAGDINE.html+%22textum+hermetis%22&cd=7&hl=it&ct=clnk

in this pdf where are summarized in some detail the contents of manuscript quoted by your friend Pierre liber super textum hermetis autor Ortolan Paris manuscript where the alchimist autor Ortolan Paris made refers (for him experience) at the subject of the prima matter and salt extracted from her and as (we will be seen in description of pdf ) this alchemist Ortolan Paris identified in "wine" the materia prima (of course?: "vite tree"? grapes ?and salt"Tatar"?..k?)

I hope what is useful for all further research and the alchemical work


i put here under by web azogue also a one interesting estract of index and contents of manuscript IMHO is very important the the part of this manuscript with interpretation and commentary of the autor alchemist Ortolan Paris of the Emerald Tablet in realation at the use of this prima materia

my best regards alfr

Azogue, 5, 2002-2007, pp. 30-56.
Abstract:
The quintessence was a key element in late medieval alchemy. I will discuss the origin of the concept from its vague beginnings in the 13th Century, well summarized by Restoro d’Arezzo (ca.1282), to the critical meeting in the early 14th century. I will focus my research on a treatise entitled Liber super textum hermetis (pre.1325) signed by an alchemist called Hortulanus (Jakob Ortlein of Nördlinger, probably a dominican monk). The full version consists of two sections. The first is a less-known guide to elaborate a pure quintessence or “Stone of Life”, which seems to be an alcoholic compound obtained by distillation and rectification of wine. Hortulanus thought of alcohol as the quintessence almost a quarter of century before John of Rupescissa's book De quinta essentia. The second section of the Liber super textum hermetis is a popular commentary on the Emerald Tablet that usually circulated as an independent work. It was first printed in Nuremberg by Johannes Petreius, as part of the alchemical compilation know as In hoc volumine de alchemia continentur hæc (1541). It defines quintessence as the first of all things created by God, the pure element of which the cosmos was made.

rogerc
03-07-2012, 03:47 AM
I went through the radium/ radon phase a couple of years ago, it hirlarious .......this never ends, a vicious cycle, it is on this forum. Guess where radium comes from...it comes from uranium, it occurs at the rate of about 600 parts per million, that means you need thousands of tons or uranium, its better to get it from brazalian nuts and gypsum piles, but even then what do you have? Its not alchemical, yes its effects on gemstones is interesting,especially diamonds, they light up the room in its presence, but its a million times more radioactive than uranium, it kills, trust me nuclear materials and radiological testing was my job in the navy, guess what radium expels....radon gas, guess what radon gas becomes in the mines.....the radon daughters, .......its the pollonium, lead, bismuth cycle and the chase ends there. Although the radon healing mines are interesting but if we are good hermeticists we recognize that the healing action happens through sympathies as in homepathy.....at once I was convinced by radon when I read a study that said the full moon tends to pull radon out of the ground, and I thought it would become bonded to the morning dew, to gives us our dew, especially when working with radioactive gypsum/ urine, but I was wrong...GL help set me straight.......I used to think radon gas was the "malla metallorum" spoken of by Paracelsus that sometimes killled the miners when the mine was unsealed, but of course its arsenide gas not radon, arsenic is the dragon not uranium, realgar being the red dragon not cinabar...I think I covered it all concerning radium/radon I did many months of research and thought I had nailed it as well, especially with the work of Albert Cau and Art Kunkin who swear by uranium, its dispelled......and.I can assure you with all certainty its not the matter Pierre was refering to, and then still even he was wrong, it isn't what Fulcanelli was alluding to.....this will put you on the right path....the hebrews called a substance they used to start fires with which was petroleum in nature "fire" this is what is meant in the case of agni/agnus, search into what GL commmented on in the synthesis path when he spoke of the true origin of petroleum, whatever this substance was it began as a solid but when stored underground it resolved itself into a colorless petroleum liquid product....... originally called....naptha. Think in terms of the acetate paths on lead, tin zinc, to get the "acetone" of the wise, another clear "petroleum liquid" with metallic reflections, we are working on the regimien of philosophic mercury of course.

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 04:05 AM
Hi Alfr.
I'm not sure if you are hinting at the matter or not by this post.
I do not think it is salt of tartar that Pierre was pointing to.
There is a presence of it in wine and grapes, but I don't think it has ever been distilled from them.

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 04:18 AM
Hi RogerC.
Yes, not radium/radon.
But not naphtha either. How is naphtha white and red?

rogerc
03-07-2012, 04:22 AM
dizardos made it clear and pierre never came back to refute it, pierre was talking about potassium salts( hydroxide, potash) from oak charcoal...possibly potassium tartarate, he was no doubt talking about collecting potash from burnt wood, here the proponents of this line of reasoning derive a black phase and a white phase, and a purified salt extracted that they call secret fire, they like to quote Fulcanelli in this regard, when he speaks of the black vile stone, that holds back and coagulates the impure mercury.... but what I ask is this....why do they ignore everytime he says "arsenical sulfur", it is obvious he was not speaking on the regimien of salt of the time, how do we get arsenical sulfur from coal/ charcoal.

rogerc
03-07-2012, 04:26 AM
Hi RogerC.
Yes, not radium/radon.
But not naphtha either. How is naphtha white and red?

Oh my apologies I thought this new development had to do with your new thread on shamir, that thread we are discussing relating to Pierre speaks also of shamayin as it relates to fire so I though you were making a connection here.

alfr
03-07-2012, 04:44 AM
quote rogerc
Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 284

dizardos made it clear and pierre never came back to refute it, pierre was talking about potassium salts( hydroxide, potash) from oak charcoal...possibly potassium tartarate, he was no doubt talking about collecting potash from burnt wood, here the proponents of this line of reasoning derive a black phase and a white phase, and a purified salt extracted that they call secret fire, they like to quote Fulcanelli in this regard, when he speaks of the black vile stone, that holds back and coagulates the impure mercury.... but what I ask is this....why do they ignore everytime he says "arsenical sulfur", it is obvious he was not speaking on the regimien of salt of the time, how do we get arsenical sulfur from coal/ charcoal.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........

Hi dear rogerc and salomon and every body

Yes i thinks as Rogerc about as the rogerc some salts and the indication that of this give dizardos this in imho is the correct identification about the prima matter that pierre want give indication i think this are the indication by pierre as exact have tell Rogerc (so maybe? pieree with this indication have reason? or maybe no ? but imho this salts and they comportament with the Universal is VERY much interesting ) and imho is so for this that pierre quote and give the diret indication (as we see ) of the manuscript liber super textum hermetis of the autor alchimist Ortolan Paris so solomon if is not this identication of pierre what you think solomon pierre want indication ??

my best regards alfr

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 04:46 AM
Oh, I wondered where you got that from.
No, I just thought it was an item of interest.
It is quite a coincidence - pitchblende - peche/fish.
But, no - not fitting Pierre's criteria.

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 04:54 AM
Why does everyone despise potassium carbonate or oak trees?
Carbon is a good matter to create all kingdoms.
There is a fire allied to it like a magnet in all three kingdoms.

vega33
03-07-2012, 06:20 AM
I went through the radium/ radon phase a couple of years ago, it hirlarious .......this never ends, a vicious cycle, it is on this forum. Guess where radium comes from...it comes from uranium, it occurs at the rate of about 600 parts per million, that means you need thousands of tons or uranium, its better to get it from brazalian nuts and gypsum piles, but even then what do you have? Its not alchemical, yes its effects on gemstones is interesting,especially diamonds, they light up the room in its presence, but its a million times more radioactive than uranium, it kills, trust me nuclear materials and radiological testing was my job in the navy, guess what radium expels....radon gas, guess what radon gas becomes in the mines.....the radon daughters, .......its the pollonium, lead, bismuth cycle and the chase ends there. Although the radon healing mines are interesting but if we are good hermeticists we recognize that the healing action happens through sympathies as in homepathy.....at once I was convinced by radon when I read a study that said the full moon tends to pull radon out of the ground, and I thought it would become bonded to the morning dew, to gives us our dew, especially when working with radioactive gypsum/ urine, but I was wrong...GL help set me straight.......I used to think radon gas was the "malla metallorum" spoken of by Paracelsus that sometimes killled the miners when the mine was unsealed, but of course its arsenide gas not radon, arsenic is the dragon not uranium, realgar being the red dragon not cinabar...I think I covered it all concerning radium/radon I did many months of research and thought I had nailed it as well, especially with the work of Albert Cau and Art Kunkin who swear by uranium, its dispelled......and.I can assure you with all certainty its not the matter Pierre was refering to, and then still even he was wrong, it isn't what Fulcanelli was alluding to.....this will put you on the right path....the hebrews called a substance they used to start fires with which was petroleum in nature "fire" this is what is meant in the case of agni/agnus, search into what GL commmented on in the synthesis path when he spoke of the true origin of petroleum, whatever this substance was it began as a solid but when stored underground it resolved itself into a colorless petroleum liquid product....... originally called....naptha. Think in terms of the acetate paths on lead, tin zinc, to get the "acetone" of the wise, another clear "petroleum liquid" with metallic reflections, we are working on the regimien of philosophic mercury of course.

Hi Roger

Despite this, radioactivity is, at least indirectly, associated with the work. The spirit at the center of all things is responsible for radioactivity (as it is responsible for all changes). You'll recall Bergier's rather questionable meeting with Fulcanelli... well the alchemist he met with wasn't entirely fibbing with him. Of course I can't prove this to you thats something you'll have to do yourself.

The problem with modern chemistry is that it considers all these particles to be real, rather than a product of the interaction of waves of energy (fire, spirit, consciousness) which create null zones. The one consciousness is always moving and the only way it can produce the illusion of solidity is through motion running against one another - the two serpents. Think of it as if matter is one continuous one pointed samadhi of consciousness on itself, requiring external interference (eg light) to temporarily break its meditation. Leedskalnin, Ighina, etc... they were on to this.

Sorry I can't say any more, you need to do the internal work if you want to understand the external one.

solomon levi
03-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Nice post Vega33.
It would make sense that our matter can be prepared to become a little sun/king.
This fire in its common form is not radioactive, but can be made so.
And it actually does correspond to the green color of shamir, but is not radium or uranium/pitchblende.
I hadn't associated the two initially, but i did think there was something to the shamir as it is used in
the construction of the temple.

pteh
03-07-2012, 09:04 AM
I have read and reread "the mysteries of the cathedrals" many times, I think more than 100, I pinned all the questions that arose as I read the book, then each time I tried to answer questions.
I finally concluded that the "martial regulus" is a salt, I mean the way in which to appear is that of a salt.
If by chance an intuition was correct, that in my opinion, should be given an opportunity to review a new key with the rest.
Heartfelt thanks to all who are participating in this thread that I consider very interesting experience and then bring in practice.

"Two of these principles are considered simple, sulfur and mercury, because
They occur naturally in the body of the combined metals, only one, the
salt, is constituted in part by fixing substance and in part from the field
volatile.
In chemistry, it is known that the salts, formed from an acid and a base, show, with
decomposition, the volatility of both the stability of the other.
Because salt is simultaneously share the mercurial principle, with the
its moisture and volatile cold (air), and sulfur principle with its
igneous and fixed dry (fire), acts as a mediator between the sulfur and mercury
components of our embrione.Thanks to his dual capacity, allowing the salt
to realize the conjunction that without him would be impossible, between the one and
the other antagonist, actual parents of "little king" airtight.
So the four main elements are assembled in pairs in stone
training, because the salt itself has the fire and the air needed for
the union of sulfur and mercury-ground water. "

nav2010
03-08-2012, 08:48 PM
quote rogerc
Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 284

dizardos made it clear and pierre never came back to refute it, pierre was talking about potassium salts( hydroxide, potash) from oak charcoal...possibly potassium tartarate, he was no doubt talking about collecting potash from burnt wood, here the proponents of this line of reasoning derive a black phase and a white phase, and a purified salt extracted that they call secret fire, they like to quote Fulcanelli in this regard, when he speaks of the black vile stone, that holds back and coagulates the impure mercury.... but what I ask is this....why do they ignore everytime he says "arsenical sulfur", it is obvious he was not speaking on the regimien of salt of the time, how do we get arsenical sulfur from coal/ charcoal.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........

Hi dear rogerc and salomon and every body

Yes i thinks as Rogerc about as the rogerc some salts and the indication that of this give dizardos this in imho is the correct identification about the prima matter that pierre want give indication i think this are the indication by pierre as exact have tell Rogerc (so maybe? pieree with this indication have reason? or maybe no ? but imho this salts and they comportament with the Universal is VERY much interesting ) and imho is so for this that pierre quote and give the diret indication (as we see ) of the manuscript liber super textum hermetis of the autor alchimist Ortolan Paris so solomon if is not this identication of pierre what you think solomon pierre want indication ??

my best regards alfr
No he wasn't, he's talking about tannin especially tannin from red oak, look it up.Tannins are metal ion chelators and are present in just about every living green plant on the earth. Pomegranates are full of it as are acorns. Acorns have so much of it they are toxic to man and many animals. The soil contains huggins of the stuff and it is black, bitter and stinks terrible. Some plants have more tannin than others but the oak contains huge amounts. The rose hip contains 20,000 ppm tannin. What is the connection between the fleece and the oak? Tannin from oak is used as a dye on animal fleeces including Rams, sheep, lambs or any other hide you need dying. There is a simple diagram in Abraham the jews book showing you this with the Rose and the Oak. Pierre didn't tell you because he can't, because that is the golden rule. Personally I don't give a shit about the golden rule so am telling ya.

rogerc
03-08-2012, 09:10 PM
quote rogerc
Join Date Feb 2011 Posts 284

dizardos made it clear and pierre never came back to refute it, pierre was talking about potassium salts( hydroxide, potash) from oak charcoal...possibly potassium tartarate, he was no doubt talking about collecting potash from burnt wood, here the proponents of this line of reasoning derive a black phase and a white phase, and a purified salt extracted that they call secret fire, they like to quote Fulcanelli in this regard, when he speaks of the black vile stone, that holds back and coagulates the impure mercury.... but what I ask is this....why do they ignore everytime he says "arsenical sulfur", it is obvious he was not speaking on the regimien of salt of the time, how do we get arsenical sulfur from coal/ charcoal.
.................................................. .................................................. ...........

Hi dear rogerc and salomon and every body

Yes i thinks as Rogerc about as the rogerc some salts and the indication that of this give dizardos this in imho is the correct identification about the prima matter that pierre want give indication i think this are the indication by pierre as exact have tell Rogerc (so maybe? pieree with this indication have reason? or maybe no ? but imho this salts and they comportament with the Universal is VERY much interesting ) and imho is so for this that pierre quote and give the diret indication (as we see ) of the manuscript liber super textum hermetis of the autor alchimist Ortolan Paris so solomon if is not this identication of pierre what you think solomon pierre want indication ??

my best regards alfr

Its a tool not a finished product, its use is to to accomplish a seperation and solving which is always the first task in the work on the first matter, if we look in terms of the caro and guasco path(regimien of sulfur) who may have been working with the same mineral( or thought they were) we find they both used Koh to solve the red dragon ...... and so much the better when the salt has been prepared by the alchemist himself and he has observed hermetic philosophy and imbibed living spirits into the salt and knew how to preserve it in that state and had used these spirits to awaken life in the mineral. That salts and saline spirits carry the current of life there can be no arguement.

Hellin Hermetist
03-08-2012, 11:02 PM
So dear Leo, is the arsenical sulfur you made mention to mineral realgar?

solomon levi
03-08-2012, 11:20 PM
No he wasn't, he's talking about tannin especially tannin from red oak, look it up.Tannins are metal ion chelators and are present in just about every living green plant on the earth. Pomegranates are full of it as are acorns. Acorns have so much of it they are toxic to man and many animals. The soil contains huggins of the stuff and it is black, bitter and stinks terrible. Some plants have more tannin than others but the oak contains huge amounts. The rose hip contains 20,000 ppm tannin. What is the connection between the fleece and the oak? Tannin from oak is used as a dye on animal fleeces including Rams, sheep, lambs or any other hide you need dying. There is a simple diagram in Abraham the jews book showing you this with the Rose and the Oak. Pierre didn't tell you because he can't, because that is the golden rule. Personally I don't give a shit about the golden rule so am telling ya.

Hi nav2010.
I like that you have argued it with examples of oak and fleece, but that only satisfies a couple of
the conditions Pierre gave and Fulcanelli. Why does EVERYONE despise tannins? Why should this oak
be old or rotten or hollow to acquire tannins? How do tannins become the source of metals?

I am not arguing the use of tannins in spagyria or iron gall ink or some path. I just think Pierre was
pointing to something else. Maybe what I think he was pointing to is wrong as well. But it should be apparent
by the unanimous agreement of the authors that the matter is despised by everyone, which means people
who have never visited a mine. I can see everyone has contacted plants and tannins, but why do they despise
them? I never despised tannins. Lots of people love tea. Supposedly only Philosophers love this despised matter.
And why does Pierre say it exists in a protective black covering or sunlight will kill it?
Why does he stress the tenderness of this material? How does that apply to tannins?

Personally, I don't see how my answer applies to all the conditions either.
But it can be said to be despised by all and it is known to possess black white and red and purple
and to be absolutely necessary in all plants and animals.
I do not understand how it is necessary to minerals yet, or their source.
But it is very much saturn and his daughter venus (which does not apply to tannins as far as I can see).
Oaks belong to Jupiter.

solomon levi
03-08-2012, 11:31 PM
That salts and saline spirits carry the current of life there can be no arguement.

And yet, when our scientists look for signs of life on other planets, they don't look for salt or carbonates.
They look for phosphorus. Funny that they relatively recently can begin looking for arsenic now that they know
some bacteria can live off of it. Nitrogen, phosphorus, arsenic, antimony, bismuth.

rogerc
03-08-2012, 11:44 PM
So dear Leo, is the arsenical sulfur you made mention to mineral realgar?

Look at post #334 Celestial Agriculture http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture/page34

Yes.... realgar is pure arsenical sulphide a-As4S4, as Fulcanelli said it could not become a metal, because it saw its evolution interupted by an impure sulfur that held back and coagulated its mercury...
It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena,cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it
with their name. It is still called black dragon covered with scales, venomous serpent,
daughter of Saturn, and "the most beloved of its children". This primal substance has seen
its evolution interrupted by the interposition of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats
its pure mercury, holds it back, and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this
primitive mercury, materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the
shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of
utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man, Yet, in this subject --- poor relative
of the metal family --- the enlightened artist finds everything that he needs to begin and
perfect his Great Work, since it is present, say the authors, at the beginning, the middle,
and the end of the Work.......

Interesting.... I did a search on ebay for arsenic today, three items came back on the collectables-rocks,minerals catagory......1.native arsenic,
2. stibnite on arsenic and 3. cobalite...if we think in terms of the Book of Abraham the Jew and even Arcana Divina they both putsy around the issue of arsenic without naming it outright..... only Fucanelli did, instead they say puch or bismuth or mineral of cobalt as in the case of Arcana Divina, but when they speak of its poisonous qualities and its use in medicine there could be no mistake. Also in the case of metallic generation, because gold is only formed in mineral masses which always contain sulfur and arsenic deposits, infact all metals are associated with arsenic and sulfur, thats why if we read the Golden Chain of Homer, he tells us outright that arsenic and sulfur are the seminal roots and they engender all marcasites that go on to become the different occult metals, the path he gives for this mechanism is from the universal one by way of anima mundi "fire" into niter and salt and this complys with the great discourse on salt given in the Compass of The Wise that I admired very much.


From the combat that the knight, or secret sulphur, engages with the arsenical sulphur of
the old dragon, is born the astral stone, white, heavy, shining as pure silver, and which
appears to be signed, bearing the imprint of its nobility, its stamp (1) esoterically
translated as the griffin, a sure indication of the union and peace between fire and water,
between air and earth. However, we should not hope to attain this dignity from the first
conjunction. For our black stone, covered with rags, is soiled by so many impurities that
completely freeing it from them is extremely difficult. For this reason it is important to
submit to several levigations (which are Nicolas Flamel’s laveures or fire purifications),
so as to progressively cleanse it from impurities and from heterogeneous and tenacious
stains which encumbers it, and to see it take on, with each one of these fire purifications,
more splendor, more polish, and more brilliance.
Initiates know that our science, although purely natural and simple, is in no way vulgar;
the terms we use, following the masters, are no less so. Please pay attention to them,
since we have chosen them with care, with the intention of showing the way, of pointing
out the potholes which pit it, thus hoping to enlighten the studious and to divert the blind,
the greedy, and the unworthy. Learn, you who already know, that all our purifications are
igneous, that all our purifications are made in fire, by fire, and with fire. This is the
reason why some authors have described these operations under the chemical title of
calcinations, because the matter, long subjected to the action of the flame, yields its
impure scorched parts to it. Know also that our rock --- veiled in the form of the dragon --
- at first allows a dark, evil-smelling, and poisonous liquid to flow, whose thick volatile
smoke is extremely toxic. This water, symbolized by the crow, cannot be washed or
whitened except by means of fire


If you want to
possess the griffin --- which is our astral stone --- by tearing it from its arsenical ganque,take two parts of virgin earth, our scaly dragon, and one part of the igneous agent, which
is that valiant knight armed with the lance and shield. [*152-1] (Ares), more vigorous
than Aries, must be in a lesser quantity. Pulverize and add the fifteenth part of this pure,
white, admirable salt, washed and crystallized several times, which you must necessarily
know. Intimately mix it; and then, following the example of the painful Passion of Our
Lord, crucify it with three iron nails, so that the body dies and can then be resurrected


For they call magnesia (Greek [*223-4] --- magnes, magnet) the coarse
feminine matter which attracts by an occult virtue the spirit enclosed beneath the hard
shell of the steel of the sages. The latter, penetrating like a burning flame into the body of
the passive nature, burns, consumes its heterogeneous parts, drives away the arsenical
(leprous) sulphur, and animates the pure mercury it contains and which appears in the
conventional form of a liquor both humid and igneous --- the fire water of the Ancients --
- which we call Spirit of Magnesia and universal solvent

Then of course we have all the allusions to leprousy, which the handling of this material for some occult reason cause the skin and limbs to rot and or develop lesions, it is because in this impure state the state that the fall of man gave it, it is an evil and despised substance of hades, only when purified by fire does the Adam Kadmon(red dust of man-ruby red arsenical sulfur) and the son of man...i.e. the blood of Christ....the graal, from the re-algar, rer, re, anagram become manifest.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 12:00 AM
I think the whole column is useful (nitrogen column in periodic table). We have seen the various alchemical
works deal with aerial nitre and terrestrial nitre, phosphates in the urine and dung paths/microcosm, arsenical
sulphur and antimony and bismuth... now we can see why. And as Pierre said, it is easier to work with the closer
you get it from source.

I don't doubt that a stone may be had from any of these matters, but phosphorus/lucifer/satan/venus the morning/
evening star seems simpler than those minerals. And everyone can access it at no expense.

rogerc
03-09-2012, 12:15 AM
Yes, I often thought of the phosphorus from urine and that it was from the matter everyone despised....everyone, urine......however like you said above it doesn't fit the metallic problem/ issue with the mines...however if we put the whole problem in terms of the entire nitrogen column like I mentioned before as well, we see that they all behave similiarly and that the ancients they would not have been able to tell them apart, two of them are lunar and the other two of them are solar, the like being completely exchangable for each other in chemical reactions, because they bear the same mathematical signatures for bonding, all signed with the same celestial imprint of father, son and holy spirit, the triune bond is the strongest in nature, it reflects the golden ratio. What I think is astounding is how a substance as poisonous as arsenic to some lifeforms can under different circumstance become the basis of life for others(even on the same planet): http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1385-And-the-Rivers-will-flow-as-blood....remember this it falls inline with what you posted above.

Funny that they relatively recently can begin looking for arsenic now that they know
some bacteria can live off of it.

As you mentioned the definitions for "life" have changed.

Hellin Hermetist
03-09-2012, 12:21 AM
Hi Leo,

Hi Fulcanelli says so many times that his mineral is a black one, when realgar is a red mineral?

rogerc
03-09-2012, 12:44 AM
Hi Leo,

Hi Fulcanelli says so many times that his mineral is a black one, when realgar is a red mineral?

He's refering to the impure state as in case of marcasites and native arsenic and by this term "marcasite" I don't mean iron sulfide but instead in the sense that the Golden Chain Of Homer means it, an old rocky mass in transitory state in most cases black in color, massabielle, (from masse vieille: "old mass"). in french means vile/old rock, it is also the name of the location of the grotto at lourdes.... as Fulcanelli as well refers to all of them in this phrase:
It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena,cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it
with their name.
He might as well have threw in cobalite, bismuthinite, arsenopyrite, chalcopyrite..because they all contain arsenical sulfur.

Hellin Hermetist
03-09-2012, 12:55 AM
Do we need realgar in its pure state to make the first extraction? Thats what Basil Valentine has to say about the matter

Many one may here demand and not without cause, how such a Spirit of Mercury may be procured, how to be made, and after what manner it is to be prepared to expel Diseases, and change all the kinds of the meaner and baser Metals, as if they were born in a little world, by transmutation and augmentation of their Seed; many expect this with impatience. I answer without concealing any thing, but will truly discover as much as is permitted me by Gods Command, in manner and form following.

In the Name of the Lord, Take a Red Quick-silver Ore which is like unto Sinople (or Vermilion) and the best Gold Ore you can get; grind of each a like quantity both together, before they partake of any fire, poure an[Pg 56] Oyl of Mercury, upon it made per se, of common, purified and sublimed Quicksilver, set it a month to digest, you have an Extract rather Celestial than Terrestrial; distil this Extract gently, as in Balneum Mariæ, the Flegme ascends over, the Oyl remaining at bottom, being heavy, which in a moment receives all Metals into it poure thrice as much Spirit of Wine to it, circulate it in a Pellican, till it be as red as Bloud, and become so sweet that nothing may compare with it; decant the Spirit of Wine to a Liquidness, poure fresh Spirit of Wine upon it, this reiterate so often, till the Matter be exceeding sweet, and transparent red as a a Ruby, then put all together, poure that which ascended over upon white calcined Tartar, and distil it strongly in Ashes, the[Pg 57] Spirit of Wine remains behind with the Tartar, but the Spirit of Mercury ascends over. If this Spirit of Mercury be mixt with the Spirit of Sulphur, together with its Salt, and so brought over jointly together, that they can never be separated, you have such a work which if it come over, and it get its ferment with Gold by solution according to a just measure and time appointed, and be brought to a perfect ripeness, unto the Plusquam perfection, nothing may compare therewith, for prevention of Diseases, and poverty, and to a rich excessive recreation of the Body and Goods. This is the way to obtain the Spirit of Mercury, which I have revealed as far as it is permitted me to do, by the Supremest Emperour; the[Pg 58] Manual Operations are found in the Work which I have revealed;

Limojon de St Didier says in his epistle that Basilius is the only one who has revealed the manual operations with so many details, and the only thing missing is the true nature of the matters we have to make use of. I believe that the red one isn't cinnabar but realgar. That must also be the red minium of Norton. Not sure what he means with the mineral of gold.

rogerc
03-09-2012, 01:12 AM
Do we need realgar in its pure state to make the first extraction? Thats what Basil Valentine has to say about the matter

Many one may here demand and not without cause, how such a Spirit of Mercury may be procured, how to be made, and after what manner it is to be prepared to expel Diseases, and change all the kinds of the meaner and baser Metals, as if they were born in a little world, by transmutation and augmentation of their Seed; many expect this with impatience. I answer without concealing any thing, but will truly discover as much as is permitted me by Gods Command, in manner and form following.

In the Name of the Lord, Take a Red Quick-silver Ore which is like unto Sinople (or Vermilion) and the best Gold Ore you can get; grind of each a like quantity both together, before they partake of any fire, poure an[Pg 56] Oyl of Mercury, upon it made per se, of common, purified and sublimed Quicksilver, set it a month to digest, you have an Extract rather Celestial than Terrestrial; distil this Extract gently, as in Balneum Mariæ, the Flegme ascends over, the Oyl remaining at bottom, being heavy, which in a moment receives all Metals into it poure thrice as much Spirit of Wine to it, circulate it in a Pellican, till it be as red as Bloud, and become so sweet that nothing may compare with it; decant the Spirit of Wine to a Liquidness, poure fresh Spirit of Wine upon it, this reiterate so often, till the Matter be exceeding sweet, and transparent red as a a Ruby, then put all together, poure that which ascended over upon white calcined Tartar, and distil it strongly in Ashes, the[Pg 57] Spirit of Wine remains behind with the Tartar, but the Spirit of Mercury ascends over. If this Spirit of Mercury be mixt with the Spirit of Sulphur, together with its Salt, and so brought over jointly together, that they can never be separated, you have such a work which if it come over, and it get its ferment with Gold by solution according to a just measure and time appointed, and be brought to a perfect ripeness, unto the Plusquam perfection, nothing may compare therewith, for prevention of Diseases, and poverty, and to a rich excessive recreation of the Body and Goods. This is the way to obtain the Spirit of Mercury, which I have revealed as far as it is permitted me to do, by the Supremest Emperour; the[Pg 58] Manual Operations are found in the Work which I have revealed;

Limojon de St Didier says in his epistle that Basilius is the only one who has revealed the manual operations with so many details, and the only thing missing is the true nature of the matters we have to make use of. I believe that the red one isn't cinnabar but realgar. That must also be the red minium of Norton. Not sure what he means with the mineral of gold.

Yes, I think you got it look at post #303 Celestial Agriculture it is the quicker way, in this sense the way Fulcanelli speaks of is before it can be put to Basil's operations it must be purged from the black sulfur, by multiple assations(purfications) with iron, and purifying melting (dew) salts we eventually attain an green scoria, we break this green scoria open and out comes the sinople, the sinoptic red earth, yes in short it is pure ruby red arsenical sulfur...... but this is the dry path,
Lancea; in the Study of the Metallic Natures, the History of Phinehas, Numbers, c. 25, v. 7, belongs to this place. By the Fornicators are understood the (Masculine) Arsenical Sulphur, and the (feminine) dry Water unduly mixed, together in the Mineral.

By the Spear of Phinehas is meant the Force of Iron acting upon the Matter to cleanse it of Dross: By which Iron, not only is the Arsenical Sulphur killed, but also the Woman herself is at length mortified; so that the Miracle of Phinehas may be fitly applied here.
-Aesch Mezaraph

the wet path is only possible with arsenical sulfur in the purifed ruby red state, so yes we save ourselves some time and exposure by using the wet way with realgar, since there is nothing to purge we proceed directly to solve et coagula. Guasco's method I might add is not very much unlike that of Basil's.

Hellin Hermetist
03-09-2012, 01:29 AM
Can you give me some link to the Guasco's method dear Leo? Also, do you know why Fulcanelli says that it is great danger of explosion during the first operation?

rogerc
03-09-2012, 01:42 AM
Can you give me some link to the Guasco's method dear Leo? Also, do you know why Fulcanelli says that it is great danger of explosion during the first operation?

La Rosee Brule le Sel (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fyaka-asso.org%2Fyaka%2Fsoleil%2Fls_intro.php&act=url)...click on tab above for "books" and open "The Dew Burns The Salt"...you want the chapter on Sulfur selectable on right.

rogerc
03-09-2012, 02:06 AM
Also, do you know why Fulcanelli says that it is great danger of explosion during the first operation?

Few authors have mentioned this first encounter and the danger it represents. To our
knowledge, Cyliani is without doubt the Adept who went the farthest in the metaphoric
description he presents of it. However, we have found nowhere else as detailed a tail, i.e.,
as exact in its images, as near to the truth and to reality as the great hermetic philosopher
of the modern times: de Crano Bergerac. This brilliant man is not known enough, whose
work, purposely mutilated, probably encompassed the entire scope of the science. As for
us, we scarcely need M. de Sercy’s testimony (7), asserting that Cyrano "received from
the Author of Light and from the Master of Sciences (Apollo) lights which nothing can
darken and knowledge at which no one can arrive", to recognize in him a true and
powerful initiate.
De Cyrano Bergerac stages two fantastic beings representing the principles of Sulphur
and Mercury, issuing from the four primary elements: the sulphurous Salamander, which
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http://www.cista.net/Houses/main.htm 05/09/2010
thrives in the midst o flames, symbolizes the air and fire of which the sulphur possesses
the dryness and the igneous ardor, and the Remora, the mercurial champion, heir to the
earth and water and its cold and humid qualities. These names chose on purpose owe
nothing to whim or fantasy. [*367-1] (Salamandra) in Greek seems formed of [*367-2]
(sal), the anagram for [*367-3] (als), salt, and of [*367-4] (mandra), stable; it is the salt
of the stable, the salt of urine of the artificial saltpeter bed, the saltpeter of the old
spagyrists --- sal petri, salt of stone --- which they still designate under the name of
Dragon. The Remora, in Greek [*367-5] (echeneis), is this famous fish which was
supposed to stop (according to some) or to direct (according to others) ships sailing in
northern seas, subject to the influence of the North Star. It is the echeneis of which the
Cosmopolite speaks, the royal dolphin which the characters of the Mutus Liber exert
themselves to capture, the same one which accompanied and pilots, on the bas-relief
ornamenting the fountain of Vertbois, the ship loaded with an enormous hewn stone. The
echeneis if the pilot of the running waters, our mercury, the faithful friend of the
alchemist, the one which has to absorb the secret fire, the igneous energy of the
Salamander and finally, remains stable, permanent, always victorious, under the
safekeeping and protection of his master. These two principles, of opposite natures and
tendencies, of contrary disposition exhibit a relentless antipathy against each other, and
an irreducible aversion for one another. Face to face, they furiously attack each other,
defend themselves ruthlessly, and the truceless and merciless fight only ceases with the
death of one of the antagonists. Such is the esoteric duel, appalling yet real, which the
illustrious Cyrano (8) related in these terms"


However, if it suffices to know the secret substance represented by the dragon in order to
discover its antagonist, it is essential to know the means that sages employ in order to
limit, to temper the excessive ardor of the belligerents. For want of a necessary mediator -
-- for which we have never found a symbolic interpretation --- the ignorant experimenter
would be exposed to grave dangers. Anxious spectator of the drama which he would have
imprudently unleashed, he could neither control its phases nor regulate its fury. Fiery
projections, sometimes even brutal explosion of the furnace, would be the sad
consequences of his temerity. This is why, aware of our responsibility, we urgently
beseech those who do not possess this secret to abstain until then. They will thus avoid
the fate of an unfortunate priest of the diocese of Avignon, about which the following
notice briefly gives an account (2): "Abbot Chapaty thought to have discovered the
philosophers’ stone but, unfortunately for him, the crucible burst asunder, the metal
exploded against him, attached itself to his face, arms and clothes; he ran in this way
along the Infirmaries Street, dragging himself in the gutters as though possessed, and he
perished miserably burnt, like a damned person. 1706".

Sal Niter and sal ammoniac are the two belligerents add sulfur from the minera and we have a bomb, Fulcanelli never offers a hint on the mediator but I found another source:
Golden Chain of Homer reveals the two antagonists and the remedy for the fulmen:
And because these two salts, that is, the salt of Aquafort and that of the sal ammoniac, are quite subtle and volatile, they are easily excited and ignited by the least movement or heat. When

121


they feel such warmth, they detonate or explode everything below them just as gunpowder usually explodes everything above it. This is the true cause of the Fulmen and not the Sulphur Solis (the sulphur of the gold). It is the volatile saltpeter and Sal Ammoniac both strongly interacting subjects.
The cause of the gold’s exploding below, however, is in the gold itself, which is a fixed Earth, therefore having a downward inclination; while on the contrary, coal (charcoal) in gunpowder ‘is a volatile Earth pushing upwards.

Now we also see a difference between this gold fulminate and common gunpowder in as much as this gold fulminate explodes three times as powerfully as gunpowder. The reason is that gunpowder con¬tains a corporeal, coarse, raw’ saltpeter, whereas that in gold ful¬minate is quite spiritual, volatile and a very delicate one. The more subtle, volatile and spiritual such Reagentia are, the more violently they explode.

Gold fulminate that has been precipitated with oil of tartar (oleum tartari), explodes so much more powerfully than gunpowder. If we take instead of a fixed alkali, such as oil of tartar, a vola¬tile one, such as the volatile salt of urine or ammoniuxn carbonate, and precipitate the gold with it, it will detonate all the more vio¬lently. By this, the lover of the Art will see that the Fulmen stems from the volatile salts actually, and not from the gold. The reader will also see that if this gold were to be kept wet, it will not explode or detonate. In fact, even though it were to be standing in Aqua Regis for many years, it would still not explode. However, as soon as it becomes dry and some warmth is applied, it begins then to

122



explode. Likewise gunpowder: When it is wet and damp, it will not ignite; whereas, if it is dry, it shows its effect immediately. In contradistinction, however, when this gold fulminate is dried and boiled with a fixed Alkali and water, such as Oleum tartan or potash, or other Alkalis or olea salis, it loses its fulmination at once, because the fixed Oleum salis tartan dissolves the volatile Reagentia that adhere to the gold and turns them into a third fac¬tor by means of their dissolution, and binds the reaction by its fixity, so that there can be no more explosion.

From this we can now conclude that this crackling and thunder¬ing effect in general arises from a nitric volatile substance and a delicate volatile Alkali or such a volatile earth as the sulphur of coal. The more volatile they are, the stronger they explode; the more fixed, however, the less they explode.

If now oil, or coal dust, arsenic, auripigruent, or sulphur is added to a flowing saltpeter, one can immediately see how they drive each other out and cause a violent reaction, according to which the Reagens is also volatile or fixed. That is to say, the degree of violence of the explosion is quite dependent on whether the Reagens is volatile or if it is fixed and to what extent they are so fixed or not fixed.

If, on the contrary, common fixed table salt or salt of tartar, another fixed Alkali or some fixed earth, such as Terra Sigillata, chalk or lime - which do not contain anything volatile - is added to the flowing saltpeter, one can see that they do not interact violently but unite in a friendly manner, fix each other without any change in temperature, and do not fulminate.


all this being said i stongly advise a good study and experimentation into the philosophy of the nature of this fulmen, volatile versus fixed, like GCH discusses above..... we get products in a very short time that are quite geometerically complex and quite unstable.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 03:16 AM
Yes, I often thought of the phosphorus from urine and that it was from the matter everyone despised....everyone, urine......however like you said above it doesn't fit the metallic problem/ issue with the mines...however if we put the whole problem in terms of the entire nitrogen column like I mentioned before as well, we see that they all behave similiarly and that the ancients they would not have been able to tell them apart, two of them are lunar and the other two of them are solar, the like being completely exchangable for each other in chemical reactions, because they bear the same mathematical signatures for bonding, all signed with the same celestial imprint of father, son and holy spirit, the triune bond is the strongest in nature, it reflects the golden ratio. What I think is astounding is how a substance as poisonous as arsenic to some lifeforms can under different circumstance become the basis of life for others(even on the same planet): http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1385-And-the-Rivers-will-flow-as-blood....remember this it falls inline with what you posted above.

As you mentioned the definitions for "life" have changed.

But I'm not saying phosphorus doesn't engender the mineral kingdom. I'm saying I don't
yet understand it. Maybe it has something to do with all these yeast and bacteria actions people
are experiencing with transmutations in the archemy threads.
Also the mine can be the intestines - not just urine, dung.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Phoscycle-EPA.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Phoscycle-EPA.jpg)

Death and excretia.

Phosphorus also acts like ammonia, the phosphorus replacing the nitrogen.
PON said something about ammonia being the seed or source of metals.
I don't understand it, but I can't say it isn't so either. If we follow the progress of that column,
then phosphorus IS the link between nitrogen and arsenic/antimony/bismuth.
Another area to search is the biblical references and differences between leavened and
unleavened "bread". It's phosphates combining with carbonates that produce the gas that
raises the bread. So there is something to be explored with the relation between calcium phosphate
(apatite) and calcium carbonate "bread".

If it were obvious/apparent, we could google "the source of metals" and science would tell us.

"Berlinite (aluminium phosphate, chemical fomula AlPO4) is a rare phosphate mineral...
It occurs as a rare mineral in high-temperature hydrothermal or metasomatic deposits. Associated minerals include augelite, attakolite, kyanite, pyrophyllite, scorzalite, lazulite, gatumbaite, burangaite, amblygonite, phosphosiderite, purpurite, apatite, muscovite, quartz, hematite in granite pegmatites. It also occurs with alunite, aragonite, collophane, crandallite, francoanellite, gypsum, huntite, hydromagnesite, leucophosphite, nesquehonite, niter, and nitrocalcite in the Paddy’s River copper mine in the Brindabella Mountains of Australia."

That's an awful lot of minerals to be associated with for such a rare mineral.

"The phosphorus cycle is the biogeochemical cycle that describes the movement of phosphorus through the lithosphere, hydrosphere, and biosphere. Unlike many other biogeochemical cycles, the atmosphere does not play a significant role in the movement of phosphorus, because phosphorus and phosphorus-based compounds are usually solids at the typical ranges of temperature and pressure found on Earth. The production of phosphine gas occurs only in specialized, local conditions.

Low phosphorus (chemical symbol, P) availability slows down microbial growth, which has been shown in studies of soil microbial biomass. Soil microorganisms act as sinks and sources of available P in the biogeochemical cycle. Locally, transformations of PO4 are microbially driven; however, the major transfers in the global cycle of P are not driven by microbial reactions, but by tectonic movements in geologic time. Further studies need to be performed for integrating different processes and factors related to gross phosphorus mineralization and microbial phosphorus turnover in general."


Perhaps this is something that may be known by science. Or perhaps it will only be known in the mine of the
alchemists' vessels. Perhaps only revealed by god/mediation.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 03:34 AM
I wasn't finished and somehow I posted...

I guess what was left to explore is the creation of anything by atoms/Adam,
the mediation of the one. What I was suggesting with N and P as H carriers -
light/fire bearers - is there affect on other bodies to cause mutations. In this
regard, I don't think radioactive matters should be disregarded. Phosphorus
has an allotrope P32. It is also sometimes associated with uranium. One may
consider the Emerald Tablet idea that if it is made into earth it is perfected.
In our periodic table, we see how the more massive (the more protons and
electrons) an element gets, the more unstable and radioactive - they become
little suns in effect. I think it would be unwise to dismiss this possibility as
being related to alchemy, the operation of the sun:
"Thus it is finished, what I have said about the workings of the Sun."

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 04:10 AM
Forgive me - I am not being antagonistic at all or disagreeable, but only wanting to provide
knowledge. And this is a thread about arguing Fulcanelli's subject, so don't take it any way please.

Phosphorus is known as the devil's elements because of its use as explosives.
It catches fire in oxygen, just by itself. Fulcanelli made mention of this devil/satan.

The gold mentioned by Chain of Homer can just as well be phosphorus. Consider Christopher
as Fulcanelli said. So the salts RogerC mentions, sal ammoniac and sal nitre, are also present
in the works on urine. We end up with three basics - a nitre of urine, an ammonium carbonate
and an ammonium phosphate, or ammonium sodium phosphate (microcosmic salt) and
ammonium magnesium phosphate (struvite). So nitre, carbonate and phosphate in ammonia
mercury menstruum.

So I don't mean to argue against or detour anyone from the metalloids, but I want to show the
optional levels at which texts may be interpreted while still being accurate.

But on a personal level, phosphorus does fit the bill more than arsenic IMO.
Arsenic isn't saturn or venus or lucifer or despised by all or particularly related to
plants and animals, universal. But phosphorus is necessary for every DNA.
Phosphorus also is black in the mine/dung and it's initial extracted appearance.
Upon calcining it becomes white. If left as white phosphorus it inflames and will
burn your lab down, or if the fire is increased too greatly in calcination, the flask
will explode if white phosphorus is too dry and oxygen is available. The white phosphorus
upon further calcination in absence of oxygen becomes red, and eventually purple.
White also becomes red just by being in the sun. At red it is safer.

In working with urine, there is less danger. The phosphorus is not isolated. It is balanced
by the volatile alkali and the nitre. In urine works, the chloride needs to be removed for
a stone - we want ammonium carbonate, not ammonium chloride.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 04:59 AM
If we can include Schwaller with the Fulcanelli, we see a relation between
the salt of the thigh bone which he emphasized.
Bones = saturn
Their salt is calcium phosphate.
Again, life from death is the theme of alchemy.

rogerc
03-09-2012, 07:02 AM
But I'm not saying phosphorus doesn't engender the mineral kingdom. I'm saying I don't
yet understand it. Maybe it has something to do with all these yeast and bacteria actions people
are experiencing with transmutations in the archemy threads.....
PON said something about ammonia being the seed or source of metals.
I don't understand it, but I can't say it isn't so either......
If it were obvious/apparent, we could google "the source of metals" and science would tell us.


Not ammonia per say but the niterous principle however niter itself(the corpreal salt) can take the shape of two different salts opposed in nature like in the case of saltpeter(salmander) and sal ammoniac(remora)

Maybe this will help from GCH: On the universal level


In the atmosphere it is volatile and incorporeal, and produces volatile meteors in water and earth, it assumes a crystalline Body. and produces corporeal Subjects. according to different degrees of fixity; no objects under the sun in their last resolution are found without one or the other(niter or salt)
Everything in Nature does consist of these two.


The one is Nitre The other is Salt
The one is Acid The other is Alkaline
The one is Spirit The other is Body
This is the Father This is the Mother
This is the Male Sperm This is the Female Sperm
This is the Universal Agent This the Universal Patient
Primordial Sulphur Primordial Mercury and Salt
Fire and Air The Magnet
Chalybs Sendivogii The Magnet
The Hammer The Anvil
Sulphur Naturae Mercury and Salt Naturae

In the beginning this Chaotic water was entirely Volatile, because if you did distil it before putrefaction, every drop of it ascends like volatile water; By fermentation and putrefaction it gets a basis of fixation and precipitates its subtil earth.
The most volatile part of this water generates Animals, when it becomes a little fixer it generates Vegetables, and when it becomes quite fixed it generates Minerals and Metals. Whosoever like to generate minerals, let him take the fixest parts, such as eath and water. If you like to produce Vegetables, add to the earth and water some air and fire. If you want to bring forth Animals add still more of the most volatile, that is more air and fire, as containing more of the Universal. The vegetable department stands between Animals and Minerals. because out of them a Mineral or Stone may as soon be produced as an animal, as we shall show hereafter.
The efficient cause which has enabled us to see and feel the Universal Corporified Sperm, is putrefaction, the Principal Key whereby the Lock of Natural Subjects may be opened.


On the metallic level:

The more the Universal fire of Nature approaches the earth, the more it becomes terrestrial and corporeal; the more it becomes corporeal, it becomes more fixt, and the more fixt it is, the less it is inflammable; thus nitre descends from Heaven is volatile and incorporeal, although visible in Light, and concealed in the water, out of which it becomes manifest by putrefaction.
The more terrestrial and fixer this nitre becomes the more it is alcalised, and looses gradually its fulminating power, as appears in minerals and metals; because the more it descends from its Universal Nature, the more it alters its Nature and quality, and assumes a different nature in Animals, a different character in Vegetables, and different quality in minerals and Metals; yet it manifests its fiery nature in all three, more or less, according to its degree of volatility of Fixity; in the Animal and Vegetable departments in Oils, Fats, Resin, Pitch, and in the Minerals in sulphureous substances, such as sulphur etc.
As the Minerals are of a Stony nature and descend gradually to more and more fixity, the inflammable sulphur by gradual and continued fixation is deprived of its inflammability and obtains another quality, and incombustible one.
That sulphur and such like adustable substances are of a nitreous origin we have demonstrated before and proved, that all inflammability proceeds from nitre. That there is a salt in Minerals is perceived, when we elixivate a mineral with water, after having glowed it previously in the fire; but that such a mineral salt is not always found in any considerable quantity and sometimes hardly perceptible, is the reason, because it becomes more and more terrestrial, and the more earth it dissolves; the more it forsakes its original Saline nature, at to outward appearance.
We see plainly, that, if we wish to separate the firmly united mineral and metallic Bodies, we are obliged to make use of Saline and nitreous Menstrums, without which they cannot be opened, and that every menstrum is either saline, nitreous, or mercurial, every good chemist knows. Therefore as the minerals meet and dissolve in a saline menstruum it is evident that they must possess a nature which is congenial to Salt or nitre, or they could not be conquered thereby; thus they can be resolved into a Saline or nitreous Nature, therefore such is also their first origin.
After having dissolved a Metallic Body in a Saline Menstruum, if you evaporate your Solution to a third part, the solution will shoot into a salt or vitriol, which vitriol by distillation and cohobation becomes an vinegar, ponderous spirit or oil from or out of which they proceed at first; because all minerals and metals proceed originally and are generated from an acid, fermented, putrefied nitre and salt, which dissolve a suitable Earth and from vitriol, sulphur, marcasit, metal; which is done by a gradual fixation and nourishment by the original nitreous and saline spirits thus as they were generated by an acid, fermented spiritual nitre and salt, they are resolved by them and brought back to their First Matter.


Table of Generation

Anima Mundi
Fire
in
Nitre and Salt
United and fermented become
acid and Corrosive
dissolve a suitable Earth
and form
A vitriolic Soft butyraceous Gur; The above Vapours becoming more and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour

this setting by corroding forms nature
vitriol, sulphur, arsenic,
and by succeeding sulphur vapours, and also arsenical
Vapours, they form and generate


When Sulphur predominates When Arsenic predominates
Sulphurous Macarsites Arsenical, Marcasites, Cobalt
Pyritis, Antimony etc, Wolfram etc. Bismuth etc.
Mars Venus Sun Saturn Jupiter Moon

When both principles(arsenic and sulfur are the principles) are in equality
they form cinnabar mercury

Mercury


The Body of saturn, jupiter, moon, and with more sulphur of Mars, Venus, Sun, Platina I think is of a Solar nature from its weight and fixity.
Minerals are generated from nitreous and saline waters, which penetrate into the Earth through its pores and crevices, this nitreous saline water is heated and fermented by the ascending central heat of the Earth, is resolved into Vapours and forced upwards again towards the circumference but by this continual circulation, these Vapours are resolved again into water and ferment more and more, whereby they are subtilised, rendered more acid and corroding. These fermented waters as they contain a subtil spirit of nitre and salt, they become more and more corrosive; if they were not corrosive, who could they dissolve Stones and Rocks?
Therefore this Corrosive water dissolves Rocks, Stones, and earths which is condensed and coagulated again by the gentle subterraneous Heat into Salt, but not into such a Salt as it was in the atmosphere or in the Ocean, but into a Vitriolic Salt, which by succeeding vapours is formed into a subtil, corrosive, smeary or unctuous earth, which the Miners all Gur.
This Gur is by succeeding Vapours dissolved and filled with corrosive Acidity until it is changed into native sulphur; because the more corrosive it receives, the more sulphureous it becomes; but when the Mercurial Alcaline Vapours of Sea salt predominate over the nitreous Sulphureous Vapours, the Universal Gur goes over into [U]arsenic, which is a dry mercury. Both sulphur as well as arsenic, by fixation and succeeding Vapours become Marcasite, such as antimony, Cobalt, Bismith, Wolfram, etc. this Marcasite is the first and nearest Matter toward Metals, and not vitriol, which is the remote first Matter of Minerals and Metals. That Sulphur is very corrosive, in plainly perceived by its Smell, which is suffocating, when received in the lungs, and by its spirit and oil which is a strong corrosive. We see that the spirit and oil of vitriol are dissolved sulphureous vinegar, if you imbibe a fixt earth, such as chalk therewith, and suffer the vinegar to evaporate strongly from that earth in an open fire, you will see an inflammation and burning like that of common sulphur. That sulphur has been a nitreous salt, appears from its vinegarspirit which is of a Universal mineral nature. When this vinegarspirit has forsaken the Body of the sulphur, there remains an unctuous earth or the First Universal Mineral Gur behind, in small quantity.
The reader may judge whether I understand the generation of Minerals or not: Let him proceed either towards or backwards in the Anatomy of Minerals, and if he works rightly, he will see what he perhaps did not believe before!
Our ancestors have written that sulphur, mercury and salt are the First Matter of Metals; true philosophers understand this properly; sulphur and mercury proceed from salt and nitre, and metallic salt is vitriol perfected and fixt; we have explained how the earth in the Mines by receiving nitre, or corrosive vinegar becomes sulphur; but the more such an earth is alcalised by nitre, so that the vinegar corrosive is overcome, arsenic, mercury, or Mercurial subject is generated.

rogerc
03-09-2012, 07:45 AM
I wasn't finished and somehow I posted...

I guess what was left to explore is the creation of anything by atoms/Adam,
the mediation of the one. What I was suggesting with N and P as H carriers -
light/fire bearers - is there affect on other bodies to cause mutations. In this
regard, I don't think radioactive matters should be disregarded. Phosphorus
has an allotrope P32. It is also sometimes associated with uranium. One may
consider the Emerald Tablet idea that if it is made into earth it is perfected.
In our periodic table, we see how the more massive (the more protons and
electrons) an element gets, the more unstable and radioactive - they become
little suns in effect. I think it would be unwise to dismiss this possibility as
being related to alchemy, the operation of the sun:
"Thus it is finished, what I have said about the workings of the Sun."

Yes, but the sun is generative in nature completely opposite from uranium.....what goes on in stars is nuclear fusion, what goes on with uranium is nuclear fission, one is the beginning the other is the end...of course God is both the alpha and the omega, but the work of alchemy, the operation of the sun pertains to genesis it pertains to the alpha..."fusion" in principle..... while the omega pertains to the apocolypse and deals with a heavy state of matter, a density fallen far from its initial state of celestial lightness, and subtleness like when it first became corpreal, this is the state of uranium, it has become fissile, what started as anima mundi and astral spirit corprefied into niter and salt has preceded through the metallic realm and has missed its chance to become gold and in therfore doing so, attain eternal fixity(gold has only one stable isotope), since it has lost the generative spirit it must now disintegrate, this is the order of nature. Fission is the natural putrefaction of the metallic realm, of course generation must follow, it resolves back into a spiritual gaseous form (radon) and becomes stable lead, bismuth... after the radon daughters lose all radioactivity through pollonium, but these metals exist in a state higher than that of uranium because nature always engenders a refinement in the material that underwent the putrefactive state, it is why bismuth being a heavy metal does not harm the human constitution. Guasco touches on some of this in his book..he also makes a connection between the great ages of man and the progression of the density of metals....for instance we went through the bronze age, the age of iron and we are currently in the age of uranium, the race and obsession of man and the metallic composition of his weapons being the definition of the age,.... the current obsession being to obtain uranium and nuclear devices.... thusly he concludes the apocolpyse is upon us, the progression through the denser metals in the search of more powerful weapons, until the end is reached, a metal with a volatile and unstable geometric configuration,..... the operation of the sun is undone, nuclear pollution runs ramptant...Guasco too sets the ages of man in 25,000 year cycles just like the Mayans, of course all the great ages ended in fire, Fulcanelli alluded similarily with his chapter on the cyclic cross of hendaye.

nav2010
03-09-2012, 01:00 PM
If we can include Schwaller with the Fulcanelli, we see a relation between
the salt of the thigh bone which he emphasized.
Bones = saturn
Their salt is calcium phosphate.
Again, life from death is the theme of alchemy.
The salt of the thigh bone is tannin, tannin is a massive part of the healing process, is an antioxidant and is responsible for bone mineral density. All human bones contain tannin as do all plants in various amounts aswell as all soils around the world. It has antibacterial properties aswell as many other positive properties. When distilled and made pure it shows remarkable properties and is largely unresearched Oak tree's have huge amounts as do rose trees. Tannin may well be the material you are looking for.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Thank you RogerC.

But you do know that arsenical does not mean arsenic. It means of the nature of arsenic.
Especially when he says "of an arsenical or mercurial vapor". Mercurial vapor doesn't
mean vapor of the element/metal mercury. So why should arsenical mean that?

Arsenic is synonymous with nitre alchemically - our "strong" and "masculine", ars, virility.
The upright line as opposed to the horizontal female line.
enikos means "single". Probably a green language reference also to nike: victorious, triumphant.

He says, when both principles are in equality they form cinnarbar mercury.
If it were crude arsenic he was talking about, it would form arsenic sulphide, not mercury sulphide.

He's still speaking in code even though it may sound scientific. Acids in the earth do not explain the growth
of metals. It only explains the decomposition of what is already there - not the creation of something that
wasn't there. Otherwise we could combine acids with something in a flask and watch a new thing evolve;
but that doesn't happen.

I can explain it better than he did.
I know that may sound outrageous or arrogant, but give me some time and I'll compile something.
Volcanism must be considered as well. These are the furnaces of the earth. Sulfur happens around
volcanoes and hydrothermal vents. But it all goes back to what I've said before with silicates and
solid solution series, but I can explain it even better now.

For the moment, just look at these and you can probably figure it out yourself -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garnet

I didn't specially select garnet, other than it being a silicate. There are tons of examples like this.
Now when GCH talks about acid and alkali and sulfur and mercury, they are talking about the ions,
valency and oxidation and reduction. Probably everyone is familiar with that.
So notice in the heading it says the garnets make up two solid solution series.
When we look at the general formula we see X3 Y2 (SiO4)3

"Garnets are nesosilicates having the general formula X3Y2(Si O4)3. The X site is usually occupied by divalent
cations (Ca2+, Mg2+, Fe2+) and the Y site by trivalent cations (Al3+, Fe3+, Cr3+) in an octahedral/tetrahedral
framework with [SiO4]4− occupying the tetrahedra."

So what we have as the essentials are the X site and the Y site and the constant matrix (SiO4)3
The Y site when filled by aluminum is our mercury from the right
side of the periodic table (as your arsenic dry mercury is). What makes these minerals different
is the various sulphurs they encounter or magnetise - the iron, magnesium and manganese:

Pyralspite garnets – aluminium in Y site
Almandine: Fe3Al2(SiO4)3
Pyrope: Mg3Al2(SiO4)3
Spessartine: Mn3Al2(SiO4)3

Notice it attracts/magnetises particles which are divalent and there has to be 3.
I called them sulphurs, but only relative to the constants of the Al and silicate.
If we look at the normal valence these want to be in, iron is 3, manganese is 4
and magnesium is 2 being the most alkali, left side on the table of elements.
This balanced imbalance is what makes it a solid solution series - as long as it
is in its earth matrix, these items can morph into eachother depending on environmental
factors (the "vapors" and temperature and hydration...) which accomodate a specific imbalanced
balance. So isolated we would call magnesium the alkali salt, iron the solar sulphur and manganese
is in between with valence 4 as mercury. But when we insert them into the matrix with aluminum
which is 3 naturally and also in the 3 position in the Y site, that puts the pressure on the X site/series.

The unspoken element which also effects the potential and evolution of a mixt is its crystal
structure. Remember how PON assigns these 7 lattice systems to the 7 planets. It is this structure
that is being altered by "fixation and succeeding Vapours", that is repeated circulation/rotation of the
elements. This crystalline structure is the quintessence or etherial mold/form - the true first matter.
If we change the crystal system then we invite sulfurs with different valences and manifest different
minerals.
Now where were we?

Ugrandite group – calcium in X site
Andradite: Ca3Fe2(SiO4)3
Grossular: Ca3Al2(SiO4)3
Uvarovite: Ca3Cr2(SiO4)3

So the same relationship schemata applies but here we have Calcium who is naturally
valence 2 in the proper 2 position, so the pressure and morphing are going to occur at
the Y site between iron, aluminum and chromium. Notice aluminum occupying the same
position as it did in the pyralspite group.
"Pyrope (from the Greek pyrōpós meaning "fire-eyed") is red in color and chemically a magnesium aluminium silicate
with the formula Mg3Al2(SiO4)3, though the magnesium can be replaced in part by calcium and ferrous iron."

So what is going on here is exactly what GCH describes, but this is just a small part of the picture - garnet.
Garnet can be altered into chlorite simply by hydration.

Members of the chlorite group:
Baileychlore (Zn,Fe+2,Al,Mg)6(Al,Si)4O10(O,OH)8
Chamosite (Fe,Mg)5Al(Si3Al)O10(OH)8
Clinochlore (Mg,Fe2+)5Al(Si3Al)O10(OH)8
Cookeite LiAl4(Si3Al)O10(OH)8
Donbassite Al2[Al2.33][Si3AlO10](OH)8
Gonyerite (Mn,Mg)5(Fe+3)2Si3O10(OH)8
Nimite (Ni,Mg,Al)6(Si,Al)4O10(OH)8
Odinite (Fe,Mg,Al,Fe,Ti,Mn)2.4(Al,Si)2O5OH4
Orthochamosite (Fe+2,Mg,Fe+3)5Al(Si3Al)O10(O,OH)8
Pennantite (Mn5Al)(Si3Al)O10(OH)8
Ripidolite (Mg,Fe,Al)6(Al,Si)4O10(OH)8
Sudoite Mg2(Al,Fe)3Si3AlO10(OH)8

A basic/alkaline water solution came along from the environment and changed the base structure from (SiO4)3 to a hydroxide.
Now all the Aluminum2 that was in the Y site from the pyralspite group has been distributed differently to accomodate.
Notice in every chlorite there are still 2 Aluminum atoms. Now the whole system must change. Even the crystal structure is different.
So yes, the rotation of the elements can and does raise or lower the frequency and form.

Hydration is one way minerals change:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_hydration

There's also pseudomorphs where the crystalisation stays the same but the minerals are different:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudomorph


Check out this enjoyable site for more knowledge on the morphing and mechanics of the interior terrum:

"In the early days, miners used to call this rock "quicksilver rock," because its brittle nature made it a favorable host rock for vapor-phase mercury enrichment."

"Dissolved gold precipitated in this zone because, at shallow levels, where the confining pressure of the rock was reduced, hydrogen sulfide gas effervesced out of the water. Deeper in the system, where hydrogen sulfide stayed dissolved, it formed an ionic complex with gold and silver. These "bisulfide" complexes are what transport dissolved precious metals upward to the shallow hot springs zone of deposition."

http://nrs.ucdavis.edu/mcl/natural/geology/region/region2.htm

There's still more to say, but I'll leave at this for the moment. An important aspect is in identifying
the gur which acts as our volatile alkali. Without volatile alkali, it's not alchemy. So far (besides the
mention of the lattice structure) I've only discussed mechanics, which is basically what GCH did.
If it were all mechanical, our science would teach it, and as you can see from the wikipedia links
I used, they do. But that isn't alchemy in practice; it's the observing nature to find what to practice.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 05:56 PM
Yes, but the sun is generative in nature completely opposite from uranium.....what goes on in stars is nuclear fusion, what goes on with uranium is nuclear fission, one is the beginning the other is the end...of course God is both the alpha and the omega, but the work of alchemy, the operation of the sun pertains to genesis it pertains to the alpha..."fusion" in principle..... while the omega pertains to the apocolypse and deals with a heavy state of matter, a density fallen far from its initial state of celestial lightness, and subtleness like when it first became corpreal, this is the state of uranium, it has become fissile, what started as anima mundi and astral spirit corprefied into niter and salt has preceded through the metallic realm and has missed its chance to become gold and in therfore doing so, attain eternal fixity(gold has only one stable isotope), since it has lost the generative spirit it must now disintegrate, this is the order of nature. Fission is the natural putrefaction of the metallic realm, of course generation must follow, it resolves back into a spiritual gaseous form (radon) and becomes stable lead, bismuth... after the radon daughters lose all radioactivity through pollonium, but these metals exist in a state higher than that of uranium because nature always engenders a refinement in the material that underwent the putrefactive state, it is why bismuth being a heavy metal does not harm the human constitution. Guasco touches on some of this in his book..he also makes a connection between the great ages of man and the progression of the density of metals....for instance we went through the bronze age, the age of iron and we are currently in the age of uranium, the race and obsession of man and the metallic composition of his weapons being the definition of the age,.... the current obsession being to obtain uranium and nuclear devices.... thusly he concludes the apocolpyse is upon us, the progression through the denser metals in the search of more powerful weapons, until the end is reached, a metal with a volatile and unstable geometric configuration,..... the operation of the sun is undone, nuclear pollution runs ramptant...Guasco too sets the ages of man in 25,000 year cycles just like the Mayans, of course all the great ages ended in fire, Fulcanelli alluded similarily with his chapter on the cyclic cross of hendaye.

Yes, but I do not mean to focus on uranium as you keep going to.
Phosphorus is only element 15 and it has a radioactive isotope of 32.

"Phosphorus has a short half-life of 14.29 days and decays into Sulphur-32 by beta decay."

"S-35 and P-32 have half-lives of 87 days and 14.3 days, respectively. Therefore, the P-32 decays approximately six (6) times faster than the sulfur.
On a mass basis, then, one-sixth (1/6) of a gram of P-32 is essentially equivalent to one (1) gram of S-35 in terms of radioactivity!"

"Carbon-14 (C-14), a radioactive isotope of carbon, is naturally produced in the upper atmosphere through bombardment of Nitrogen-14 (N-14) with cosmic rays.
The C-14 is then rapidly oxidized to radioactive carbon dioxide gas which is absorbed and used by plants. This serves as its introduction into the food chain.
Radiocarbon dating relies on the assumption that C-14 exists in an "equilibrium" concentration in the carbon of living biological materials, meaning the ratio of C-14
in the body to that of stable Carbon, or C-12, stays constant. When a plant or animal dies, it ceases breathing, eating, and/or absorbing carbon (and therefore C-14).
Thus, the C-14-to-C-12 ratio is no longer fixed. The C-14 begins to decay back into N-14, resulting in a decrease in the C-14 concentration based on its half-life
(a 50% reduction every 5,730 years)."

Here is a really interesting read on naturally occuring isotopes, many caused by cosmic radiation!:
http://www-naweb.iaea.org/napc/ih/documents/global_cycle/vol%20I/cht_i_12.pdf


- I'll be gone for the weekend, and resume this next week.
Thanks RogerC and everyone. I'm learning a lot in debating. This has been a great week for me.

solomon levi
03-09-2012, 06:03 PM
The salt of the thigh bone is tannin, tannin is a massive part of the healing process, is an antioxidant and is responsible for bone mineral density. All human bones contain tannin as do all plants in various amounts aswell as all soils around the world. It has antibacterial properties aswell as many other positive properties. When distilled and made pure it shows remarkable properties and is largely unresearched Oak tree's have huge amounts as do rose trees. Tannin may well be the material you are looking for.

Hi Nav.
Can you provide a source?

rogerc
03-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Thank you RogerC.

But you do know that arsenical does not mean arsenic. It means of the nature of arsenic.
Especially when he says "of an arsenical or mercurial vapor". Mercurial vapor doesn't
mean vapor of the element/metal mercury. So why should arsenical mean that?

.
Thanks for the reply Solomon,

You wrote alot, most that I don't agree with when it comes to metallic generation, but, thats ok, I only want to comment on the above, your quote that I picked out.........because he would have stuck with the term "philosophical mercury" like all the other philosophers if he wanted to continue to speak "code"...but he doesn't, why would he replace one code word with his own, do you take him presumptuous and smug...... outrageous or arrogant ;).....on the contrary this author, like Fucanelli is notorious for being more honest and forthcoming than the old ones, as we see this in his other writings. Instead he gives us a more honest term to describe the mercury principle "arsenic" he replaces this for mercury because it is closer to the true agent both corpreal and in spirit/principle....mercury quicksilver doesn't carry the mercurial philosophic principle only arsenic does, it is arsenic in matter and arsenic/ mercurial in principle (that is why realgar is the true matter and not cinabar)...this is blatantly apparent from his writings also if you know anything about metallic ores especially gold you will see they all contain corpreal sulfur and corpreal arsenic ....without sulfur and arsenic in the parent rock we get no metals. But more than this you have to pay attention when he switches from talking about principles to vapors...vapors are real and corpreal...so pay attention and look again at this table of generation:


A vitriolic Soft butyraceous Gur; The above Vapours becoming more and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour

this setting by corroding forms nature
vitriol, sulphur, arsenic,( now we are talking about corpreal matters not principles)
and by succeeding sulphur vapours, and also arsenical
Vapours, they form and generate

When Sulphur predominates. When Arsenic predominates
Sulphurous Macarsites. Arsenical, Marcasites, Cobalt
Pyritis, Antimony etc, Wolfram etc. Bismuth etc.
Mars Venus Sun. Saturn Jupiter Moon


If you wanna check this just buy all these minerals from ebay like I did and break them down you will see that : sulfur, corpreal sulfur really does predominate in pyrite, anitmony ore, copper ore, iron ore and gold ore.....buy the minerals under "when arsenic predominates" you will see the ores of cobalt, bismuth, wolfram, tin, lead, silver really do contain more corpreal arsenic than they do sulfur...this is how I know he is being honest and also truthful, he knows his shit, so when he says arsenic, just like Fulcanelli I know he means arsenic...but make no mistake about it both must be present to make metals...of course metals are not made of corpreal arsenic and sulfur...they only lend their metallic spirits just like Fulcanelli says...."only the metallic spirits posses the privledge to alter modify and denature metallic bodies. They are the true instigators of all physical metamorphosis observed here."
I fear until you recognize the power of the metallic spirits you will never fully understand how metals are engendered in the earth and therfore the greater body of alchemical work because it pertains only to these hermetic spirits fixed to pure substances,( but not in metals as in the case of the universal path.)

For example if we create a corrosive menstruum based on niter and salt and dissolve arsenic into it and warm it, it constitutes the same as the table above:
The above Vapours becoming more and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour[/B] and bingo we get a mercurial vapor, the same that carries the metallic spirit of philosophic mercury into the parent rock to make a lunar metal this vapor will bite into an ore body and augment which vapor and therfore which principle predominates, it changes the ratio of solar metals to lunar metals after treatment, its proven through and assay before and after treatment, this is the real philosophy behind the work of the archemists the likes of Joe Champion and his predecessors...I've tried it, I 've proven it to myself....Another way to look at the problem is in metallurgy, research into what agents are used to make metals softer and more ductile, which are used to lower their euclectic (melting) temperature, which are used to harden metals, look into archemy and study the affinities of the metallic bodies for one another, we can make gold white and red by simply melting it with different metals and separating it back out, it will retain its coloration or more aptly in alchemical terms its dye, that the metallic body either gave or robbed from it.


I know debate is good..... there doesn't have to be a winner or a loser, as long as we both learn something right or wrong, it is worth it. Neither do we have to convince each other to see our point of view...points of view change, ultimately they cohere into a greater more universal view.

Pleroma
03-10-2012, 02:18 AM
roger, where do you get your pure realgar from? and how much is enough to do the work?

nav2010
03-10-2012, 11:50 AM
Hi Nav.
Can you provide a source?
My dear fellow, the true nature of alchemical teaching is that when one discovers something, the initiate will know deep in his heart whether it is right or wrong.
There is no one on this forum that has discovered the real truth otherwise you wouldn't all be here and neither would I. So, in answer to your question about the source, the scource is both you and I. What do you have to lose?

rogerc
03-12-2012, 12:35 AM
roger, where do you get your pure realgar from? and how much is enough to do the work?

Ebay....since the intial operation requires the use of KOH we have to look at the size of our vessel to know how much KOH to use and therfore how much realgar, Guasco doesn't give specific weights but we can work as in the Caro path and just replace realgar for cinabar.

Moshe
03-12-2012, 01:17 AM
Ebay....since the intial operation requires the use of KOH we have to look at the size of our vessel to know how much KOH to use and therfore how much realgar, Guasco doesn't give specific weights but we can work as in the Caro path and just replace realgar for cinabar.

Roger, working with realgar... as you know, it is a dangerous poison that can kill.
What is your safety plan like?
Have you thought of one of those crazy gas masks with the two big cannesters on them to protect against the exhalations of the caput mortum and such?

rogerc
03-12-2012, 06:26 AM
Also, do you know why Fulcanelli says that it is great danger of explosion during the first operation?

I wanted to add as well, in addition to the philsophy on the fulmen..... if you've read Guasco's path, he too speaks of a moderator, in more specific terms here is why one is needed.

The elements of murder: A History of Poison (http://books.google.com/books?id=lNLWGpoWC4AC&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=realgar+naptha&source=bl&ots=97i8GTehXH&sig=7PFstDx1Drc3cG9THsW7D3X434Y&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bgVbT8KENZPRiAKN8J3PCw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=realgar%20naptha&f=false)


The secret of Greek fire was closely guarded with the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453 all knowledge of how it was made was lost. We can hazard a guess as to what it contained and whether the necessary chemicals were available. The chief flammable component must have been a volatile hydrocarbon and indeed naptha which is similar to kerosene, was collected from natural pools of oil that came to the surface in parts of the middle east. While this would burn well it required something to make it burn out of control, and what better for this purpose than a mixture of arsenic sulfide and potassium nitrate, whose chemical reaction would indeed release a great deal of energy. The former was available as the mineral realgar and the latter and the latter as niter, which was easily collected from the walls of latrines....


Is Arsenic and Aphrodisiac (http://books.google.com/books?id=yyaTdY4UGLMC&pg=PA215&lpg=PA215&dq=potassium+nitrate++arsenic+sulphide&source=bl&ots=QbpfOLnvJG&sig=THTFpG-5cCs8JWY4eCfSrVeW7YA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DApbT8xw0MyJAs-jxc8L&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=potassium%20nitrate%20%20arsenic%20sulphide&f=false)

A Syria engineer named Callinicus is said to have invented "Greek fire", which seems to have been a primitive form of napalm( I will discuss this later), used around 637CE. Its actual formulation remains unknown, although there is speculation it waas made from a volatile hydrocarbon with a mixture of arsenic sulfide and saltpeter(potassium nitrate) as igniter....This ignition mixture was discoverd by the Chinese as they tried to develop an "Elixir of Immortality". They found that a mixture of saltpeter, honey, sulfur and arsenic sulfide spontaneously rerupted in smoke and flame.The discovery was refined by the Sung dynasty, the honey replaced with charcoal, and the mixture of sulfur charcoal and saltpeter became known as "fire drug".At this time none of the mixtures exploded because none contained the necessary 75 per cent saltpeter to achieve detonation. ....Roger Bacon is said to have been keenly interested in gunpowder and its use....In 1485 Leonardo da Vinci, in a letter to the Duke of Milan requesting a commission, outlined many different services he could provide, one of these being a poison "gas" that was in practice made from a fine powder of lime, arsenic sulfide and verdigris.

Obviously the Chinese and the Greeks were on the right path, they had corrrectly identified the prima matera of the Elixir of Immortality thousands of years ago, they also dervied a great weapon capable of mass destruction and death, just like Eleazar speaks of in The Book of The Jew. Is it coincedence that eons later, two that we count in our number.... Roger Bacon and Leonardo da Vinci would also be interested in the combination of arsenic sulfide and oxidizer?

Pyrotechnic Chemistry (http://books.google.com/books?id=Q1yJNr92-YcC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=potassium+nitrate++arsenic+sulphide&source=bl&ots=vr1tGSnX2x&sig=SQPi84VNalSGOPG2FcI6yWPOxHM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5glbT5CpDceciAKkkPWeCw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=potassium%20nitrate%20%20arsenic%20sulphide&f=false)


When arsenic sulfide is mixed with an oxidizer, it generally becomes sensitive to impact and friction, which could lead to an explosion......Alcohol does lower the sensitivity


However, if it suffices to know the secret substance represented by the dragon (realgar)in order to
discover its antagonist(saltpeter), it is essential to know the means that sages employ in order to
limit, to temper the excessive ardor of the belligerents. For want of a necessary mediator -
-- for which we have never found a symbolic interpretation --- the ignorant experimenter
would be exposed to grave dangers. Anxious spectator of the drama which he would have
imprudently unleashed, he could neither control its phases nor regulate its fury. Fiery
projections, sometimes even brutal explosion of the furnace, would be the sad
consequences of his temerity. This is why, aware of our responsibility, we urgently
beseech those who do not possess this secret to abstain until then~Fulcanelli-Dwellings


We must destroy the realgar with potassium so it is fixed because it is a highly volatile, then added to the composition, iron and copper reduced salt (nitrate). Fermentation will occur in a water bath for 40 days. . After allowed to dry slowly in the preparation sun that finally reduced to powder. We will work this powder with a moderator because the operation would prove too dangerous. This is another natural element that we will be called rock oil, oil ground (keep in the mineral), we all know and use: colorless oil~ La Rosee Brule Le Sel~ Guasco

So what is this inflammable alcohol, named "rock oil", a colorless petroleum, that will serve as moderator to our reaction. Lets return to Dwellings for more riddles...
Therefore, by the expression to put gold back into its first matter, we must understand the
animation of the metal accomplished by means of the vital agent of which we have
spoken. The spirit fled out of the body during its manifestation on the physical plane; it is
the metallic soul, or this first matter which we have not wished to designate otherwise
and which dwells in the womb of the undefiled Virgin. The animation of gold,
symbolically vivifying of the dry tree or resurrection of the dead, is allegorically taught to
us by the text of an Arab author. This author, named Kessaeus, who --- Brunet tells us in
his notes on The Gospel of Childhood --- was very busy collecting oriental legends on the
topic of events recounted in the Gospels, relates toe circumstances of Mary’s delivery in
these words:"When the moment of her delivery approached, she departed in the middle
of the night from the house of Zachary, and she walked out of Jerusalem. And she saw a
dried up palm tree; and when Mary sat at the foot of this tree, it immediately bloomed
anew and was covered with leaves and greenery, and it bore a great abundance of fruit
through the operation of God’s power. And God called forth a spring of living water next
to it, and when the pains of childbirth tormented Mary, she squeezed the palm tree tightly
with her hands".
We would not know how to say it better or to speak with more clarity

Why not speak with more clarity, after all we are at the end of the age, the great ages always ending with a "purification" of "fire"......What happens when you squeeze a palm tree?......You get palm oil....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

The word naphtha came from Latin and Greek where it derived from Persian.[2] In Ancient Greek, it was used to refer to any sort of petroleum or pitch. It appears in Arabic as "nafţ" (نَفْط) ("petroleum"), and in Hebrew as "neft" (נֵפְט). Arabs and Persians have used and distilled petroleum for tar and fuel from ancient times, as attested in local Greek and Roman histories of the region.

The second book of the Maccabees in the Septuagint, part of the Old Testament canon in some Christian denominations, uses the word "naphtha" to refer to a miraculous flammable liquid. This account says that Nehemiah and the levitical priests associated with him called the liquid "nephthar," meaning "purification," but "most people" call it naphtha.[3]

Naphtha is the root of the word naphthalene. The second syllable of "naphtha" can also be recognised in phthalate.

It also enters the word napalm from "naphthenic acid and palmitic acid", as the first napalm was made from a mixture of naphthenic acid with aluminium and magnesium salts of palmitic acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmitic_acid

Palmitic acid, or hexadecanoic acid in IUPAC nomenclature, is one of the most common fatty acids found in animals and plants. It is a major component of the oil from palm trees (palm oil, palm kernel oil and coconut oil). However, palmitic acid can also be found in meats, cheeses, butter, and dairy products.

Its molecular formula is CH3(CH2)14CO2H. As its name indicates, it is a major component of the oil from palm trees (palm oil, palm kernel oil, and coconut oil). Palmitate is a term for the salts and esters of palmitic acid. The palmitate anion is the observed form of palmitic acid at basic pH.

Palmitic acid is mainly used to produce soaps, cosmetics, and release agents. These applications utilize sodium palmitate, which is commonly obtained by saponification of palm oil. To this end, palm oil, rendered from the coconut palm nut, is treated with sodium hydroxide (in the form of caustic soda or lye), which causes hydrolysis of the ester groups. This procedure affords glycerol and sodium palmitate.


Principles of Modern Chemistry (http://books.google.com/books?id=u1IPAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA373&lpg=PA373&dq=naptha+dissolves+gold&source=bl&ots=_f4ZGYJtSj&sig=6lPnMuZk7yuYKN5FiKTZE5CUcY4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aRdbT8qPAeaaiQKzycSgCw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=naptha%20dissolves%20gold&f=false)


According to Mongez, there are three kinds of naptha, the white, the green or deep colored: and it is a true petrol or rock oil, of which the lightest and most inflammable is called naptha. It is extremly fragrant and agreeable smell: dissolves resins and balsams...It is as inflammable as ether and attracts gold out of aqua regia......but Kirwan says it issues out of white, yellow ot black clays in Perisa and Media.

And we see as well in Guasco, he gives an alternative for the regimien of sulfur of realgar with that of gold, the gold opened by the method Fulcanelli was figuratively speaking of when alluding to reviving the dry tree (dead gold)...this operation is finished the same as the realgar by the same colorless petroleum, naptha.

Pleroma
03-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Dear Brethren, that you can bring forward no excuse, as if the wise Creator did not care for you, so have I from inclination and command recorded, and must record, that it might not get lost, and thereby you might obtain a consolation. For it is easy, certainly not to all men; for many have such a weak understanding, that it is impossible to comprehend it. To some others however it is only Child’s play. What do you suppose indeed? Should Moses and also his brother Aaron not understand the same?

Yes! For how could he turn the Golden Calf into ashes? Exodus 32.

The Spirit of the Lord was on him, for he even saw before, how the holy Adonai created heaven and earth, and from what, and how this efficient Spirit yet hovers before his eyes. This intelligible Spirit now, which was the life of all things, Moses took and consumed by fire the Calf, and made I into powder. Also Miriam, Moses’ sister, because she was leprous, was cleansed by the help of this secret.

And this was to the Ancients in their need the greatest consolation. This secret was, it is true, also known to the heathen through carelessness, but it has vanished again from their hands. Therefore I ask you that you do not slight my warning from their hands. Therefore I ask you that you do not slight my warning and such, and where and how you can conceal it, that it be not lost.

It is in Roman, but the most is described in the Arabian tongue, that it be not read and understood by every one.

Dear brethren, the Ancients have at their sacrifices often had no Fire necessary, for such has been lighted at command of the most High though the Angel Michael. So have the Ancients also had a Water; 1 Kings, Chapter 18; which they poured on the sacrifices, then such has taken fire.

Such Water have also some had in a dry form. Now this is true of Elias, when he will come with the messiah, God’s and David’s son be found again, for it lies yet concealed at Jerusalem, as I said in the beginning. That you may know, however, how this was prepared, and can be prepared, now observe.

You must understand Nature, otherwise, it will be to you incomprehensible.

One finds a Salt, which then burns, it is the Nitre, this must be cleansed by means of dissolving and coagulating, it must twice be precipitated from a Solution of Spiritus Vini Rectified, in order that all incombustible mucus be taken therefrom; which in all its parts,, the truest, yes a pure Fire. It is prepared from the Earth, and is to be found everywhere.

It is not the Universal Salt of the Earth, but it is quite another; yet it has much in common with the same; the most of it is found in the earth, where animals as sheep, etc., have their standing place. From such a Salt have they driven out with great care a fiery red Spirit, this they have poured on Pyrtre, which is pure and clear, and so long cohobated and distilled, by means of a crooked necked vessel, till the Pyrtre has become a Water with it (Figure 30).

Figure 30

This they have poured again on such a fresh Salt, and so it has become a thick liquor. This they have once driven over, and again poured it back, so that it has become a thick Liquor. When this stands in the cold, it will coagulate. Of this they have taken 1 portion, and put thereto 1 portion of Naptha, in a vessel of burnt stone, for it grows very hot, and so it is prepared, and on everything that it is poured on, is eaten and consumed by fire, for no Water can exterminate it.

For that reason take care, that nothing of this preparation comes in contact with yourself, for it consumes flesh and bone. Should however some of this touch you, then take only Earth mixed with Salt, and moisten this, that it becomes like a jelly and apply this, so out will be putout, otherwise nothing in the World can extinguish this. The Naptha however is an Oil, such as flows from the Rocks, and is thick, when it comes to the Air.

What would this be for?
Is this what Moses used to turn the golden calf to powder?

rogerc
03-12-2012, 08:52 PM
Roger, working with realgar... as you know, it is a dangerous poison that can kill.
What is your safety plan like?
Have you thought of one of those crazy gas masks with the two big cannesters on them to protect against the exhalations of the caput mortum and such?

I have a good fume hood, with an two stage inline scrubber....first stage water scrubber with fine mist, second stage HV produces ozone.

What ever I don't do under a fume hood I do out in an open field and make sure I am upwind and the ocean is downwind, since I live on an island, thats not hard.

As for poisoning..... arsenicum album from homepathic preparation, even scientists have recently admitted it reduces arsenic toxicity and admit they can't explain it, since the final product contains not one molecule of arsenic trioxide.
And I keep heavy metal chelators in my blood stream, mostly natural like selenium from cilantro.

rogerc
03-13-2012, 04:54 AM
What would this be for?
Is this what Moses used to turn the golden calf to powder?



and put thereto 1 portion of Naptha, in a vessel of burnt stone, for it grows very hot, and so it is prepared, and on everything that it is poured on, is eaten and consumed by fire, for no Water can exterminate it.

For that reason take care, that nothing of this preparation comes in contact with yourself, for it consumes flesh and bone


"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

Pleroma
03-13-2012, 05:49 PM
OK.
I'm confused..
Ok. roger, first you mention realgar. then i read one post, you saying you will whiten the laton, which i thought was only using realgar.
So i dont understand what does naptha have to do with any of this.. now fulmen.
sorry i'm just lost....



"I love the smell of napalm in the morning"

Is this the reason the alkhest smells like roses or sweet whatever? so they say..

Hellin Hermetist
03-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Roger, have you bought the fume hood from a manufacturer, or you have built it by yourself?

rogerc
03-13-2012, 07:06 PM
OK.
I'm confused..
Ok. roger, first you mention realgar. then i read one post, you saying you will whiten the laton, which i thought was only using realgar.
So i dont understand what does naptha have to do with any of this.. now fulmen.
sorry i'm just lost....



Is this the reason the alkhest smells like roses or sweet whatever? so they say..

HH was asking about in the dry way why Fulcanelli says there is great danger of explosion and that the student should abstain until he finds the moderator of the reaction, I gave the quote from Dwellings as well as the tract from GCH to expose the nature of the fulmen and how to quell it. I gave examples from different books that arsenic sulfide mixed with an oxidizer really is explosive, and that not only was it the basis of greek fire but how the chinese ultimately created gunpowder, in the search for the elixir of immortality whose basis was arsenical sulfide. Then I returned to say that in the wet way Guasco speaks of a moderator as well, it is naptha, he describes it as a colorless petroleum, the true rock oil. But we should not ignore that the word naptha comes from the hebrew word "nepthar" which means purification, and indeeed all things are purified by fire, naptha was called the "fire" of the hebrews thus IMO what Fulcanelli alludes to in relation to agni/ agnus, although he could be speaking of pure SM, but I think its pretty clear he did not know how to get it, of course not everything actually needs to be set ablaze to purify it by fire.

rogerc
03-13-2012, 07:12 PM
Roger, have you bought the fume hood from a manufacturer, or you have built it by yourself?

First I searched on ebay, but shipping is a big problem where I live, so I had to build it myself.

Hellin Hermetist
03-13-2012, 08:18 PM
Thanks for the immidiate answer Roger,

How much did it cost to make your own hood?
Also, can you open a new thread where you can give us instructions about the construction of your fume hood when you have some free time. I believe that many members would like to see a thread of this type.

Pleroma
03-14-2012, 12:13 AM
HH was asking about in the dry way why Fulcanelli says there is great danger of explosion and that the student should abstain until he finds the moderator of the reaction, I gave the quote from Dwellings as well as the tract from GCH to expose the nature of the fulmen and how to quell it. I gave examples from different books that arsenic sulfide mixed with an oxidizer really is explosive, and that not only was it the basis of greek fire but how the chinese ultimately created gunpowder, in the search for the elixir of immortality whose basis was arsenical sulfide. Then I returned to say that in the wet way Guasco speaks of a moderator as well, it is naptha, he describes it as a colorless petroleum, the true rock oil. But we should not ignore that the word naptha comes from the hebrew word "nepthar" which means purification, and indeeed all things are purified by fire, naptha was called the "fire" of the hebrews thus IMO what Fulcanelli alludes to in relation to agni/ agnus, although he could be speaking of pure SM, but I think its pretty clear he did not know how to get it, of course not everything actually needs to be set ablaze to purify it by fire.

What would the Moderator do to the fulminate?
ok roger.
About the gold fulmen.
in some book i have called splendor solis, theres a method called Trismosins alchemical process of the red lion. anyways.
It explains how to make the PS using gold fulminate.
ok then it says


Some process has been omitted that would shut that trap and render the fulminate harmless. Here the question arises whether in depriving the Fulminate of its FULMEN it is not also deprived of its power of Transmuation?


And to make the mercurial water that turns gold to a fulmen, they use mercury, and since you said realgar is the really the first matter....yea..just a thought.
Theres so many ways of using realgar.. in abrahams book, and hyle and coahyl. and some other books..unless i'm wrong.

solomon levi
03-14-2012, 03:22 PM
Hey RogerC.
I think you misunderstood me.
I'm not dismissing arsenic. I said arsenical is not arsenic.
He says arsenical sometimes and arsenic sometimes.
When he says arsenical, he wants to convey a matter or matters that are like arsenic.
This would include arsenic and antimony and phosphorus and bismuth and nitrogen as well.
Just because someone is more clear doesn't mean they are literal.
One can almost say it's impossible to be literal about mercury, sulphur and salt
because they are relative terms.
It should be obvious that GCH's terms nitre and salt are synonymous with mercury and
sulphur, and then he follows down the involutionary scale to arsenic, etc.
They are all mercury and sulphur, just at different stages of the scale/involution.

He obviously isn't always literal. You quoted this:

"this setting by corroding forms nature
vitriol, sulphur, arsenic,"

If this were literal then he's saying sulfur(vitriol), sulphur and arsenic. Why sulphur twice?
Because vitriol means "philosophical salt" in this instance. Not literal.

The following is also very clear, if interpreted, but is a mixture of symbolic and literal:

"Minerals are generated from nitreous and saline waters, which penetrate into the Earth through its pores and crevices, this nitreous saline water is heated and fermented by the ascending central heat of the Earth, is resolved into Vapours and forced upwards again towards the circumference but by this continual circulation, these Vapours are resolved again into water and ferment more and more, whereby they are subtilised, rendered more acid and corroding. These fermented waters as they contain a subtil spirit of nitre and salt, they become more and more corrosive; if they were not corrosive, who could they dissolve Stones and Rocks?
Therefore this Corrosive water dissolves Rocks, Stones, and earths which is condensed and coagulated again by the gentle subterraneous Heat into Salt, but not into such a Salt as it was in the atmosphere or in the Ocean, but into a Vitriolic Salt, which by succeeding vapours is formed into a subtil, corrosive, smeary or unctuous earth, which the Miners all Gur.
This Gur is by succeeding Vapours dissolved and filled with corrosive Acidity until it is changed into native sulphur; because the more corrosive it receives, the more sulphureous it becomes; but when the Mercurial Alcaline Vapours of Sea salt predominate over the nitreous Sulphureous Vapours, the Universal Gur goes over into arsenic, which is a dry mercury. Both sulphur as well as arsenic, by fixation and succeeding Vapours become Marcasite, such as antimony, Cobalt, Bismith, Wolfram, etc. this Marcasite is the first and nearest Matter toward Metals, and not vitriol, which is the remote first Matter of Minerals and Metals. That Sulphur is very corrosive, in plainly perceived by its Smell, which is suffocating, when received in the lungs, and by its spirit and oil which is a strong corrosive. We see that the spirit and oil of vitriol are dissolved sulphureous vinegar, if you imbibe a fixt earth, such as chalk therewith, and suffer the vinegar to evaporate strongly from that earth in an open fire, you will see an inflammation and burning like that of common sulphur. That sulphur has been a nitreous salt, appears from its vinegarspirit which is of a Universal mineral nature. When this vinegarspirit has forsaken the Body of the sulphur, there remains an unctuous earth or the First Universal Mineral Gur behind, in small quantity."

If literal, we would call saline and nitreous waters the hydrochloric and nitric acids. But do you really believe
these become sulfuric acid and then native sulphur? Go ahead and show me that in a test tube. Obviously sulphuric
acid is coagulated into native sulphur, HCl into chloride sea salt and HNO3 into nitrous salts. That is being literal and clear
which GCH is not so much, only compared to others.

"but when the Mercurial Alcaline Vapours of Sea salt predominate over the nitreous Sulphureous Vapours, the Universal Gur goes over into arsenic, which is a dry mercury."

Our author has contextualised the vapours of sea salt as mercurial and alkaline.
Obviously hydrochloric acid isn't alkaline. It has to be chlorate or chlorite, if we can safely assume sea salt to be sea salt.
Sodium chlorate is aka bleach/sodium hypochlorite and is produced by the action of chlorine gas on limestone/sodium carbonate.
But most probably we should consider all the halogens (means sal/sea generator) to fall under sea salt,
especially when talking about the gaseous phase. Fluorine is more abundant in the earth's crust than chlorine.
So, again, we have a column, not a singular element.

The same should be considered with sulfur which replaces oxygen in many examples, one significant example being thiols:

"In organic chemistry, a thiol is an organosulfur compound that contains a carbon-bonded sulfhydryl (–C–SH or R–SH) group (where R represents an alkane, alkene, or other carbon-containing group of atoms). Thiols are the sulfur analogue of alcohols (that is, sulfur takes the place of oxygen in the hydroxyl group of an alcohol), and the word is a portmanteau of "thio" + "alcohol," with the first word deriving from Greek θεῖον ("thion") = "sulfur". [note 1] The –SH functional group itself is referred to as either a thiol group or a sulfhydryl group.
Many thiols have strong odors resembling that of garlic. (as do arsenic and phosphorus)
Thiols are often referred to as mercaptans. The term mercaptan is derived from the Latin mercurium captans (capturing mercury) because the thiolate group bonds so strongly with mercury compounds."

Another noteworthy mention of this oxygen column is selenium whose acids are capable of dissolving gold.


Anyway, I think it safe to say that the halogen column represents our water/sea/hals and mercury,
the nitrogen column represents sulphur, and their union/salt is represented by the chalcogen (ore-generating)
column. All this aligns very well with GCH's description. So, back to my initial point, "arsenical" should
not be limited to arsenic, which is a particular density/manifestation of arsenical/nitrous vapours.


You said, "Instead he gives us a more honest term to describe the mercury principle "arsenic" he replaces
this for mercury because it is closer to the true agent both corpreal and in spirit/principle..."

Everyone knows that arsenic is the male principle and mercury is the female.
Mercury is the solvent. Arsenic isn't the solvent; it's the halogens.
GCH is confusing on this matter and calling arsenic the mercury should not be
taken literally, but relatively in the context he gave.
Yes, the vitriolic gur is in the sulphur column, not the arsenic column.
Look at gold telluride. "Tellurium compounds are the most common chemical compounds of gold found in nature."

When Sulphur predominates. When Arsenic predominates
Sulphurous Macarsites. Arsenical, Marcasites, Cobalt
Pyritis, Antimony etc, Wolfram etc. Bismuth etc.
Mars Venus Sun. Saturn Jupiter Moon


If you wanna check this just buy all these minerals from ebay like I did and break them down you will see that : sulfur, corpreal sulfur really does predominate in pyrite, anitmony ore, copper ore, iron ore and gold ore.....buy the minerals under "when arsenic predominates" you will see the ores of cobalt, bismuth, wolfram, tin, lead, silver really do contain more corpreal arsenic than they do sulfur...this is how I know he is being honest and also truthful, he knows his shit, so when he says arsenic, just like Fulcanelli I know he means arsenic...but make no mistake about it both must be present to make metals...of course metals are not made of corpreal arsenic and sulfur...they only lend their metallic spirits just like Fulcanelli says...."only the metallic spirits posses the privledge to alter modify and denature metallic bodies. They are the true instigators of all physical metamorphosis observed here."

There's no argument here. We're at a denser stage.
Here, he said arsenic, not arsenical vapours.
Here, he is talking about minerals and not vapours.


"For example if we create a corrosive menstruum based on niter and salt and dissolve arsenic into it and warm it, it constitutes the same as the table above:
.....
The above Vapours becoming more and more corrosive retain their androgynal nature of Nitre and Salt and constitute now a double sulphureous and arsenical or merurial Vapour[/B] and bingo we get a mercurial vapor, the same that carries the metallic spirit of philosophic mercury into the parent rock ...."

Not exactly what he said. Yes, nitre and salt he said. But he didn't say to dissolve arsenic in it. He said sulphur.
I'll quote him again for you:
"These fermented waters as they contain a subtil spirit of nitre and salt, they become more and more corrosive; if they were not corrosive, who could they dissolve Stones and Rocks?
Therefore this Corrosive water dissolves Rocks, Stones, and earths which is condensed and coagulated again by the gentle subterraneous Heat into Salt, but not into such a Salt as it was in the atmosphere or in the Ocean, but into a Vitriolic Salt, which by succeeding vapours is formed into a subtil, corrosive, smeary or unctuous earth, which the Miners call Gur.
This Gur is by succeeding Vapours dissolved and filled with corrosive Acidity until it is changed into native sulphur.."

The gur isn't arsenic. Sulphur doesn't come from arsenic.
But rather, arsenic replaces sulphur and phosphorus in the minerals.
But sometimes it is vanadium that replaces phosphorus, or some other element.

There isn't much distinction between mineral and metal. I mean few metals are found in native state.
Most metals are smelted from their ores. So it doesn't make much sense to say sulfur and arsenic
are necessary for metals. There are plenty of silicate ores and other ores.
There's no such thing as a metal atom. Are you claiming arsenic is the father of lithium metal?
Explain that.

There are all kinds of vapours/gases in the earth. Part of what determines mercurial and sulphureous nature
is acid and alkaline relativity - whether these vapours/gases/spirits are oxidising or reducing. It doesn't have
to be nitric acid, for example. I mean nitric acid isn't the only sulphur. In the earth we have all the halogen
gases and their acids and alkalis, we have arsenous and phosphine and dozens more and all the alkali metals
and carbonates and the many oxidation states for each element.
Mercury, sulphur and salt aren't independant things - they're relationships. These relationships change and the
relative value changes. In general, the chalcogens are salt relative to the columns on the right and left. But within
one column, we could call nitrogen mercury, phosphorus sulphur, and arsenic salt. Or phosphorus mercury,
arsenic sulphur and antimony salt. And magnesium is mercury and sulphur and salt compared to somethings.

"I fear until you recognize the power of the metallic spirits..."
And what have I said that shows I don't recognise this?
From our conversation, I recognise it more than you.
You're the one limiting it to arsenic. I see these spirits all over.
I've been talking about nitre and sea salt for years:

"As i've said before, the symbols of salt and nitre, circles with horizontal and
vertical lines respectively, are telling us that these are the male and female.
And their union forms the cross within the circle, a symbol of the balancing of the four elements.
This could be as simple as suggesting that HCl + HNO3 = aqua regia, a solvent
for gold which at one time in history was a great secret.
But it may be a clue to some other secret.
That's what I'm trying to discover.
But they definitely wanted to tell us something about nitre and common salt. To represent them with the male and female signs might be saying
"this is our man and our woman, our sun and moon".
Why else would they do that?
And then I was led to works like Golden Chain and Opus Mago, and they seem to give credence to these theories."

I said that on 6-28-2009

rogerc
03-14-2012, 08:44 PM
Solomon...... your entire post is chemical in nature...you speak as if the earth creates pure chemicals like factories and reunites them to form compounds...of course this is not the case, nothing produced within the earth is purely this or purely that. You still seem to be ignoring the actual agents of change....the metallic spirits...here we don't mean vapors, but they are the real agents of change and metamorphosis engendering denser and more complex forms here in the corpreal world, hermetic philosophy teaches these forms already exist in pure spiritual form in the astral world. The whole book GCH doesn't explain metallic generation in terms of chemicals, but the evolution of the entire universe, plant and animal included in terms of anima/spiritus mundi and fire(spiritual fire) imbodieing denser and denser forms, these forms begin as subtle spirits imbibed into salts and saline waters, until we get as dense as to metals and finally fissile materials, but to operate in the corpreal, our world, these spirits need vehicles, niter and salt are only vehicles, they only serve a purpose in alchemy or in the earth if we prepare them to receive these imponderable spirits. Please read the GCH in these terms, please realize we are looking for a mineral that contains spirit of mercury in abundance...I wasn't the first to unveil the mechanism and reach arsenic......read what I wrote above, the Chinese alchemists working towards the Elixir of Life isolated not arsenic...but arsenical sulfide as the best mineral to work in this pursuit 3000 years ago, I am not saying realgar is the only path......I am saying that they said it was the best . And certainly the GCH does the same, ......everbody likes to think and use stibnite in the dry path, but does GCH mention antimony in terms of mercrury, absolutely not it equates arsenic as a mineral body to spirit of mercury and antimony to spirit of sulfur and surely when these metals go in fusion with other metals they show their affinities very clearly, and it is certain, arsenic bites into metals with greater action than antimony. And can we ignore that all the great treatises on mineral alchemy give ores of either bismuth, puch, cobalt, as starting materials, when worked in the wet way do we not distill a spirit from them, it is clear not all these ore bodies are sulfuric or mercurial in nature, the only thing they have in common is that they all contain arsenical sulfide, if we take them one at a time and perform the iron aided assation with the fluxing salts, arsenical sulfur in reguline form will be drawn into the salts, this is the part we keep, the metals we ultimately discard as useless, they are dead, we have removed the agent of change (spirit) from them, they now represent the dry dead oak, read Fulcanelli in Dwellings he is clear as glass in this regard, we are only separating the metallic spirits which are true agents of change into the vehicle which is niter and salt, the same corpreal matters that these spirts used as a vechicle to intially enter this world with, (read here the celestial agriculture) ultimately we get a glassy scoria of salt called vitriol, we break this open to reveal.....arsenical sulfide......so my point is why not start with just pure arsenical sulfide in realgar and take the spirits from it since they will be in greater abundance than an impure and dirty, black ore body, that only contains them by residue and take them as arsenical sulfide as vechicles for agent of change, thus we save ourselves lots of time and exposure to poisonous fumes....remember Cyliani's fight with the dragon and how it almost killed him....Was I the first to realize realgar was the matter they all alluded to, certainly not, but I unveiled it for myself and now for others following a philosophical path not by just jumping around mentioning this and later that and everything under the sun, so that I could come back later and say ....yeah I mentioned that too a long time ago, alchemy isn't about who was on the right track first, its about the truth, nobody owns it, so really there is no sense in argueing it, we either see it or we don't, and we can't force each other to see it, we can only provide the knowledge and lay out the path of philosophical logic and hope others follow it and this light dawns in them as well. Of course they would have exhausted every avenue their own mind grapples with.

And I can only say this if you do not believe in God in some way as a being far greater than yourself you will never succeed in alchemy, that is why the one pre-requiste to joining a masonic lodge was belief in God, in some way it doesn't matter if you see him as Brahma, Ra, Zeus or Spongebob Square Pants as long as he is a being greater than yourself who created the universe and exists somewhere as a living god.

solomon levi
03-14-2012, 09:36 PM
Your response totally misrepresents me.
If that is what you see or want to sell to others to see of me, then so be it.
When you want to have a real discussion, let me know.
You have moved back into your old ways of being a snake.
I'm sorry for that - we could do great things together, but your attachment to appearances gets in the way.
I'm not even going to defend myself. You win.
Congratulations on smearing someone who considered you a friend.
Good luck RogerC.

If you should want to resume our friendship, please re-read my posts and re-write your
latest response accordingly. Any objective reader will see that I have not said what you
are claiming of me, nor do I hold the position or picture you wish to paint me.

By painting a false portrait of me, you have confirmed Nav2012's view of you as selling yourself to people.
That is all you have done in this last post. Shame on you.

rogerc
03-14-2012, 11:59 PM
Your response totally misrepresents me.

It doesn't mispresent you in any way, only your current views, and current only means now, later they will change again, throughout the years we have moved in and out of agreement, neither of us ever being fully correct at any point in time. The only difference is that my views having, finally and I stress the word "finally"...solidified/ coagulated.


I'm not even going to defend myself. You win.
Congratulations on smearing someone who considered you a friend.
Good luck RogerC.

Like I said above.... nobody wins... I am not trying to win, only trying to attain to truth, but I can't do it alone, I need someone like you to agree with me, if I am right, someone like alfr, someone like Hellin H., then it becomes truth, not someone like Nav2012, when this happens I will become dear to you as well. Plato said the measure of a man is what he does with power, and surely if knowledge is power, then it becomes apparent, I share mine, the love of Christ does not surpass my own for mankind in this regard. But if we are to agree then first we must communicate, not argue and debate, our views have more in common than they do against but for some reason we only focus on the differences, thats why it becomes a debate, it takes two snakes to tango, the snake you see in me is the same one you see in the mirror, if we could get past this, yes we could do some great things together I think. I still consider you a friend even if you do not consider me one....like Rocky told Adrian....."you ain't ever getting rid of me."

solomon levi
03-15-2012, 01:27 AM
I too saw us as two snakes.
But you are an intelligent person. To misrepresent me so poorly can only be intentional.
And it must be to misrepresent me is to represent yourself.
You are more important than truth. When this ceases, we can communicate.
Consider me whatever you want. It is actions that tell the truth.
If you think you have accurately represented my current views, you are not as intelligent as I gave you credit.
If a friend tells a friend they have misrepresented them, does the friend say with certainty that they haven't?
Does the friend claim to know the meaning of the other more than one knows oneself?
You are corrupt. With friends like you who needs enemies?
If you were a decent human, you wouldn't try to speak for anyone else.
You would know only they can do that.
And you can't be that unwise about people and be wise about alchemy.
They're not so different.

vega33
03-15-2012, 06:01 AM
My dear fellow, the true nature of alchemical teaching is that when one discovers something, the initiate will know deep in his heart whether it is right or wrong.
There is no one on this forum that has discovered the real truth otherwise you wouldn't all be here and neither would I. So, in answer to your question about the source, the scource is both you and I. What do you have to lose?

nav2010,

First, kudos for your posts. It is of course important to try ones beliefs in the fire (literally and figuratively), that is why forums such as these are such great places for genuine conversation, once people can get past their egos and personal pre-conceptions.

In answer to your statement that "no one on this forum that has discovered the real truth", this seems to imply that you believe that there is a single truth which, when grasped, gives the initiate the key to the entire process. I do not believe this to be the case.

I speak from experience as someone who has witnessed the lost word in action, who has seen what hovers right in front of my very eyes (to quote the alchemists), and I have learned things about salt and the nature of transmutation through experiment (starting from the basis of von Welling's Opus and progressing from there). Unlike others on this forum I haven't worked with mercury, or bismuth, or arsenic or any one of a thousand chemicals which the alchemists dismiss, yet I have found something.

Why do I stay, especially when it sometimes seems like a one sided conversation? I think human beings are at heart genuinely good people, who are just ignorant of the true light they hold within themselves. They squander it thoughtlessly often. Alchemy, the philosophy of fire, teaches not only about the creation of matter, but also about the nature of our own being by extension. Anyone who has accomplished everything in that department would be an ascended master living in the Himalayas, or not bothering with this thing called the internet. In the meantime, we can provide one another the hints we feel are justified in accomplishing our separate works, without overstepping the bounds of our very real oath (which exists by reason of the need for the knowledge to be present on all planes, not just the mental one, among other things).

Even if I had the Stone, I would not step aside from conversing with my fellow humans. We have a duty to one another to help reach a higher evolutionary plateau, at least such is my belief.

rogerc
03-15-2012, 07:09 AM
I too saw us as two snakes.
But you are an intelligent person. To misrepresent me so poorly can only be intentional.

Hasty..... perhaps, but not intentional, I am not a bad person, bad people don't share, yes I think I am a decent person.... not flawless, but decent. I guess I should let your posts steep awhile like tea before I respond, so the taste isn't so bitter.



If you think you have accurately represented my current views, you are not as intelligent as I gave you credit.


Perhaps not Solomon....perhaps not



And you can't be that unwise about people and be wise about alchemy.
They're not so different

I tend to differ.... alchemy is what it is and people are just people..it takes all kinds. There has been many a monk and hermit that succeeded in alchemy and failed misirably in intra-personal relationships, hermits are by nature quite intro-verted individuals otherwise they wouldn't be hermits would they ....anyways I don't buy the whole if you have the stone you should be enlightened like a Budha type thing, this is not the case, the stone doesn't bring instant enlightenment, where is it written this is its action, it only heals medicinally but not surgically and transmutes metals and works wonders on plants, where is it written otherwise? Even after we make the red sulfur of the sun, it is not the end of the story and we live happily ever after like a fairy tale, the opus is not complete, there is still more work to be done.....

rogerc
03-15-2012, 07:18 AM
Thanks for the immidiate answer Roger,

How much did it cost to make your own hood?
Also, can you open a new thread where you can give us instructions about the construction of your fume hood when you have some free time. I believe that many members would like to see a thread of this type.

A few hundred dollars...sure I think I have pictures somewhere.

rogerc
03-15-2012, 08:30 AM
And can we ignore that all the great treatises on mineral alchemy give ores of either bismuth, puch, cobalt, as starting materials, when worked in the wet way do we not distill a spirit from them, it is clear not all these ore bodies are sulfuric or mercurial in nature, the only thing they have in common is that they all contain arsenical sulfide, if we take them one at a time and perform the iron aided assation with the fluxing salts, arsenical sulfur in reguline form will be drawn into the salts, this is the part we keep, the metals we ultimately discard as useless, they are dead, we have removed the agent of change (spirit) from them, they now represent the dry dead oak, read Fulcanelli in Dwellings he is clear as glass in this regard, we are only separating the metallic spirits which are true agents of change into the vehicle which is niter and salt, the same corpreal matters that these spirts used as a vechicle to intially enter this world with, (read here the celestial agriculture) ultimately we get a glassy scoria of salt called vitriol, we break this open to reveal.....arsenical sulfide.......

http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy10/melloras.htm


The 13th century Latin translation of Geber's Summa Perfectionis Magisterii shows that arsenicum album or white arsenic was obtained as a sublimate from arsenicum. He said that the product which has been sublimed cannot be inflamed like the impure raw arsenicum, because, when heated, it merely sublimes without inflammation. According to T. Bergman's De Arsenico (Upsala, 1777), the 11th century Arabian writer Avicenna said that there are three forms of arsenicum --- white, yellow, and red --- and that the white is obtained from the other by sublimation... In the Breve breviorum de dono Dei, attributed to Roger Bacon, of the 13th century, it is stated that white arsenic is prepared by calcining orpiment with iron scales. The iron would have taken the sulphur, and the arsenic vapor set free would be oxidized to white arsenic. Both Geber, and Avicenna, recognized that arsenicum has many of the properties of sulphur; and A. Libavius, in his Commentationum Metallicarum (Francofurti, 1597), said:

"Arsenicum is a rich, inflammable mineral which is akin to sulphur, yet more virulent because of the salt combined with it; it is composed of a sulphurous richness with a little mercury and spirit of salt" ... According to Berthelot, metallic arsenic is first mentioned in a fragmental writing attributed to Zosimos of the 3rd or 4th century; and the preparation of white arsenic is described by Olympiodorus, a writer of the 5th century ... Albertus Magnus, in his 13th century work De Alchymia, said that arsenicum becomes metallic when heated with twice its weight of soap. Basil Valentine called arsenicum metallicum a bastard metal; and in the 17th century, N. Lemery obtained reguline arsenic --- metallic arsenic --- by heating white arsenic with potash and soap ... In the Middle Ages, arsenic received various names: Scherbenkobold, Napchenkobold, Goblet-fiend, Bowl-sprite, Cobaltu, etc...


Arcana Divina~

Now, then, take in the Holy Name of God, the crude gold-bearing mineral cobalt, discovered and obtained in the mines, as previously noted, was used in the secret preparation, which was then placed on a flat piece of tile and mixed with a little Nitre and allowed to remain for 2, 3, or even 4 hours, whereupon an astonishing change will be noted in the manner in which this material behaves, since there is now a penetrating force of the General Spirit of the World; which shows an increased oscillation and finally, to a very pronounced degree, reveals its astral nature: on heating to a brilliant red, an artificial ruby-red gemstone of inestimable value (realgar crystal), exceeding the value of gold and termed the Treasure of Treasures results. When, however, the ferment involving an artificial gemstone such as just described is set aside you have a tincture suitable for preparing all metals



Limojon de St Didier says in his epistle that Basilius is the only one who has revealed the manual operations with so many details, and the only thing missing is the true nature of the matters we have to make use of. I believe that the red one isn't cinnabar but realgar. That must also be the red minium of Norton. Not sure what he means with the mineral of gold.




T. Bergman in his De Arsenico (Upsala, 1777), said that it is probable that arsenic was first discovered by those who wrought in the roasting and fusing of ores, for it would betray itself by its white smoke, its garlic smell, and its pernicious effects in depraving metals, and destroying life. In the 4th century BC, arsenic sulphide was designated sandarach by Aristotle... arhenicum by Theophratos... and in the 1st century of our era, Dioscorides called the mineral sulphide arsenico... The sandarach of these early writers was probably the mineral now known as realgar, AsS; and arsenicum and auripigmentum, the mineral orpiment, As2S3... Pliny, in his Historia Naturalis... said:

"Sandarach is found in gold and silver mines. The redder it is, the more powerful its odour, the better its quality... Arsenicum is composed of the same matter as sandarach; the best in quality has the same color as that of the best gold, and that which is pale in color resembling sandarach is of inferior quality." (arsenical sulfide and therefore realgar is the minera of gold, read below Kircher in GCH agrees)
Pliny also confused white arsenic with ceruse; and the context of the Olympiodorus references to the preparation of alum shows that white arsenic was meant(for those who focus on alums). Pliny also seems to have confused red lead with realgar(and Norton too it seems)... The term arsenic is derived from from the Greek arsenickos = arrevikos, meaning valiant or bold, in allusion, said R.J. Hauy, to the great energy with which it acts on other metals. F. von Kobell said the Greek term was derived from the Arabian word arsa naki ; S. Frankel, however, said that this term does not occur in the Arabian language; rather was the Greek term derived from the Persian word for arsenic, zarnach, zirnuk, or zirne.




And to finally end the useless arguement above as to whether the author of GCH meant real corpreal arsenic and not just as it pertains to another philosophic term....I know I should have posted earlier


Anton Kirchweger ~ The Golden Chain of Homer

Note here that Arsenic is a subtil dry mercury for the formation of the red metals chiefly. Modestin Fachs and Tugel believe Arsenic to be unripe Luna, and Luna to be fixed Arsenic. Tugel confirms it by experiment: Lead from Mercury, Tin from Arsenic, Silver from Arsenic, Iron from Mercury, Copper from Mercury, and Mercury from Arsenic...

My teachings will repel many and they will be astonished when they learn that I prepare the gold with arsenic... (here on this forum its about 50/50, but we may be winning some over)
Sulphur removes all the poison from arsenic and antimony. If a man were to reflect on the true prime origins of gold and other metals, or if he were to take the Mineram Solis, which is one with the other metals, he could immediately change it back into its prime matter. From this the reader learns of the properties of arsenic, how quickly its poison can be removed and thus it is transformed into a better substance.

The first constituent of all marcasites and metals is arsenic. In what mineral or metal can we find common quicksilver except very rarely and accidentally? Instead, you will find Arsenicum and sulphur in each of the aforementioned, be it little or much, but usually in quantity.

See Jo. Agricola in Popp. Nuremburg 1681, 4, P. II, Tr. de Arsenico, P. 997, where it is written: "Without a reason, one should not be surprised that this mineral is so closely related to Sulphur, that they are almost sprung from one spring, but in their effects they are almost opposites... It is a King of Medicine when it is corrected, one grain or less of it has the most salutory effect in countless diseases. It is penetrating and tinges the blood and vital spirit so intensely that it becomes capable of dispersing even the most pernicious enemy from the body; which other medicines, lacking this power, can never accomplish. Therefore, you must search in every way to find out how its poisonous nature can be allayed...".


Gold: Its Artificial Production --- It is not only by the common operations of mining and digging in the profundities of the earth that it is possible to obtain Gold. It is quite within the powers of Art to imitate Nature in this matter, for Art perfects Nature in this as in many other things. We propose to provide in this place an account of a formal experiment, the worth of which has been tested over and over again, and has in fact become little less than familiar among operators in the pursuit of the Grand Work. In order to perform it a large crucible must be provided, and it must be of such a quality as will be able to resist the action of intense heat. This crucible must be set over a burning furnace, and at the bottom of the vessel there must be strewn Powder of Colophony (a kind of resin) to about the thickness of the little finger. Above this undermost layer there must be another layer of Fine Powder of Iron --- that is, the Finest Iron Filings --- which shall be of the same thickness. Subsequently, the filings must be covered with a little Red Sulphur. Then the fire in the furnace must be increased till the iron filings have passed into a liquid condition. The next operation is to throw in Borax --- that kind which is made use of by goldsmiths for melting gold. To this must be added a like quantity of Red Arsenic, and as much Pure Silver as will be equivalent to the weight of the Iron Filings. Let the entire composition undergo coction by driving the furnace, taking care at the same time not to inhale the steam, on account of the arsenic in the vessel. Take then another crucible into which, by inclining the first vessel, you must pour the cocted matter, having previously stirred it effectually with an iron spatula. Proceed in such a manner that the composition will flow into the second crucible in a purified state, and devoid of recremental matter. By means of the Water of Separation, the Gold will be precipitated to the bottom. When it has been collected, let it be melted in a crucible, and the result will be good Gold, which will repay all pains and expense which have been devoted to its production. This chemical secret is contained in the ‘Hermetic Cabinet’, and the facility with which the experiment can be performed has led many persons to undertake it. The authority cited in support of it is no less than that of the most learned Basil Valentine, who also affirms that the operation of the Grand Work of the Philosophers can be performed in less than three or four days, that the cost should not exceed three or four florins, and a few earthen vessels are sufficient for the whole experiment

[/QUOTE]


I have made the Experiment with my own hands; I have seen his Medicine under two forms... I have once seen the operation of preparing the Medicine, which was performed in 16 hours, in a strong fire, in the open air, on account of the poisonous fumes.

The Basis of the Medicine was a fixed Arsenic, which fixation, I found, had been made with Borax in a crucible...

In regard to the Most Universal Subject out of which Raymundus Lully, Bernhardus Trevisanus and Basilius Valentinus have made the most Universal Tincture, it is called Electrum Immaturatum...

Note further that Sulphur and Mercury or Sulphur and Arsenic are the first seminal principles of all the metals. These two principles are certainly the most heterogeneous and most natural Keys to dissolve the metals radically, in order that death and Regeneration may follow.

When such a Regulus is melted, it imbibes all the Metals, which you put into it, and those metals, when afterwards treated and distilled... form a metallic oil in the same manner as if you had used Regulus Antimony-Mars. The Regulus of Realgar or Orpiment absorbs metals quicker than the Regulus of Antimony, and renders the metals more volatile...





(2) Henry Nolius: The Chemist's Key

He that knows not how to fix Arsenic, to take away the corrosive nature of sublimate, to coagulate sulphureous spirits, and by a convenient specifical Medicine to break and analyze stones in the greater world, will never in the body of Man allay and tame the Arsenical spirits of the Microcosmic Salt, nor quite take away the venomous indisposition of the Sulphur, nor dissolve the Stone in the bladder, and drive it out being dissolved. It is a noble, safe and pious course we examine and try the force and virtues of Medicines upon Microcosmical substances, before we apply them to our fellow creatures, and the rare fabric of Man



Myriam: My dear Aros! I can accomplish the work of our Stone not only in one day, but even in part of a day.

Doest thee not know, Aros! That there is a Water or a Thing, which Whiteneth hendrages?

Hermes has mentioned that the philosophers are accustomed to whiten the stone in one hour.

If I did not find a steady mind in thee, O Aros! I would say no more!

Take Alum from Spain, the White Gum, and the Red Gum, the Kibru of the Philosophers, their Gold, and the Great Tincture.

Make a marriage of the Gum with the Gum, by a true union;

Proceed therewith, that they may flow like water; this well prepared water Thou must vitrify, that is, thou must make a glass thereof.

This glass is composed of Two Subjects and a fixed body. Render this matter fusible by the secret operation of nature in the Philosophical Vessel.
~Myriam Prophetessa: Myriam the Prophetess, Sister of Moses, Her Conversation with Aros King of Egypt, Concerning Her Work


Anon. ~ The Book of the Science of Bkrtntb

Appendix (Vocabulary) ---

'alam ~ zarnikh [A. arsenic]...

alumin ~ [I. alumina, alumina] ~ zarnikh; orpimento...

lutemetalium, limasinas, orpimento ~ zarnikh...

qatami'a ~ tusi'ah [I., tutty, white arsenic]...

sadaraqah [I., sandaracca, realgar] ~ sandarus [A. sandarac, red arsenic]...

sandariai ~ burnt orpiment or burnt arsenic...

isawres ~ arseniqo saruf [I., arsenico, H. saruf, burnt]...

itutiyah [A.] ~ tutty, white arsenic...

zarnikh [A., arsenic]...

Guma Paradisi --- Orpiment.

Hernec --- The Orpiment of the Philosophers.

Kibrius or Kebrick --- is Arsenic

Virgin --- The Moon or Mercurial Water of the Sages, after it has been purified from the unclean and Arsenical Sulphurs with which it has been combined in the mines…

Water --- Arsenical Water. The Green Lion of the Philosophers. [N.B.: --- Orpiment in ammonia water].



And drum roll please....one more time for effect.......
It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena,
cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it
with their name.~Dwellings


Another identifier:

According to H. Rose, the crystallization of arsenic trioxide from soln is attended by crystalloluminescence. He said:

“When from one to one and a half parts of transparent arsenic trioxide are dissolved by half an hour’s boiling, in a mixture of 6 parts fuming hydrochloric acid with two parts of water, and the soln left to cool as slowly as possible, the arsenic trioxide crystallizes in transparent octahedral and the formation of each crystal is accompanied by a flash of light; on agitation, many new crystals are formed, and a corresponding number of sparks is produced. If from 4 to 6 parts of arsenic-glass are dissolved in the acid, the light produced by the crystallization is sufficient to illuminate a dark room. As long as the deposition of crystals goes on, so long is light perceived on agitating the liquid; and this appearance may be visible on the second, and even, though very faintly, on the third evening. If the liquid be then boiled, so as to dissolve the remaining portion of the glassy oxide, crystallization again takes place, accompanied by the emission of light, though not so bright as before. If the liquid be rapidly cooled, the acid separates in the pulvurent state, and little or no light is emitted. A soln of arsenic trioxide in a hot mixture of hydrochloric with sufficient nitric acid to convert the whole of the arsenic trioxide into the pentoxide, likewise emits a strong light as the acid crystallizes. Boiling dilute sulfuric acid dissolves arsenic trioxide in smaller quantity, and exhibits only occasional luminosity. Nitric and acetic acids, which dissolve still less of the arsenic trioxide, exhibit no luminosity whatever. Arsenic trioxide which has acquired the porcelainic texture, and also arsenic-meal, likewise exhibits, when dissolved in hydrochloric acid, a very feeble luminosity on agitation.”

Everburning Lamps!

rogerc
03-15-2012, 10:39 AM
What would the Moderator do to the fulminate?
ok roger.
About the gold fulmen.
in some book i have called splendor solis, theres a method called Trismosins alchemical process of the red lion. anyways.
It explains how to make the PS using gold fulminate.
ok then it says




And to make the mercurial water that turns gold to a fulmen, they use mercury, and since you said realgar is the really the first matter....yea..just a thought.
Theres so many ways of using realgar.. in abrahams book, and hyle and coahyl. and some other books..unless i'm wrong.

Read Guasco...the regimien of sulfur he mainly gives by way of realgar but, a weaker sulfur can be had by opening gold with mercury and dissolving the mercury with a homemade oxalic acid from animal slack, which leaves the gold in a white lime calx state, this material is then distilled with the same colorless petroleum as way of realgar and we get the sulfur of re-animated gold but as he says its weaker, much better to use philosophers gold/kibric which is realgar which is alive gold.

solomon levi
03-15-2012, 06:09 PM
I tend to differ.... alchemy is what it is and people are just people..it takes all kinds. There has been many a monk and hermit that succeeded in alchemy and failed misirably in intra-personal relationships, hermits are by nature quite intro-verted individuals otherwise they wouldn't be hermits would they ....anyways I don't buy the whole if you have the stone you should be enlightened like a Budha type thing, this is not the case, the stone doesn't bring instant enlightenment, where is it written this is its action, it only heals medicinally but not surgically and transmutes metals and works wonders on plants, where is it written otherwise? Even after we make the red sulfur of the sun, it is not the end of the story and we live happily ever after like a fairy tale, the opus is not complete, there is still more work to be done.....

I'm not talking about being enlightened. If you can see nature, you can see people.
The same thing that keeps people from seeing nature keeps us from seeing people
or anything: our knowledge, our images, our presumptions - in short our inability
to be present and new.
If you can't read a post, how can you read the book of nature?

If we would give gold its proper water, why wouldn't we give people theirs?
How is perfection not total? How is the perfect cubic stone not to find
expression in the alchemist's life/world? Even knowing it, knowing it
exists changes one. Seeing the possibility of it takes a mind capable of that
possibility - alchemist first, lab follows.

This is a law of consciousness. Not even hermit's are exempt. I'm a hermit too.
I'm introverted. That doesn't in the least affect my ability to perceive what is
without altering it with past knowledge, images, assumptions, impatience, prejudice...
What does affect my ability to perceive clearly is the same thing that affects yours
and everyone else's, and the same thing that prevents us from seeing the stone before
our very eyes or reading the book of nature.

If you want to use your attention to focus on alchemy and then become lazy with that
same attention when it comes to people, good luck with that alchemy. How is Nav2012
wrong in calling that selfishness? How can your fellowmen/women, how can yourself,
not be as enticing a mystery as alchemy? Only if you are pursuing gold or fame or some
other selfish motive. Do you believe there exists a selfish stone? A stone that can be
found by a selfish mind? How could a selfish, introverted stone transmute something
outside, extroverted, another metal, into gold? How can a selfish-oriented mind know
a universal stone? If you think that can happen, you don't know nature or the stone.

So who is talking about mechanics? Your actions show you believe arsenic will mechanically,
chemically produce something you are not, or something you maybe imagine yourself to be.
What will it matter what the first matter is if the alchemist isn't?

Everything that has come into being has come from consciousness. Don't you know it is YOUR
celestial body that cultivates your stone. Is your consciousness not SM? Is it determined or
undetermined? You think this means nothing? If so, you are a chemist. You think it means
something? If so, what isn't your first matter? How is this post not your first matter, not
something to cultivate? What possibly can be excluded for an alchemist?

solomon levi
03-15-2012, 07:35 PM
"Henry Nolius: The Chemist's Key

He that knows not how to fix Arsenic, to take away the corrosive nature of sublimate, to coagulate sulphureous spirits, and by a convenient specifical Medicine to break and analyze stones in the greater world, will never in the body of Man allay and tame the Arsenical spirits of the Microcosmic Salt, nor quite take away the venomous indisposition of the Sulphur, nor dissolve the Stone in the bladder, and drive it out being dissolved. It is a noble, safe and pious course we examine and try the force and virtues of Medicines upon Microcosmical substances, before we apply them to our fellow creatures, and the rare fabric of Man"

Notice, again, the use of the word arsenical.
Notice especially the reference to Microcosm.

Is there any other Micorcosm than man/woman?
We can apply the word to a mineral, but it doesn't make it so.
Did Elohim create arsenic in Its image and have it name all creatures?

Men don't piss and crap arsenic - they do phosphorus as microcosmic salt:
ammonium sodium hydrogen phosphate.
Phosphate is also in blood and every creatures DNA, unlike arsenic.

Phosphorus exists in the nitrogen column between arsenic and nitrogen.
The resemblances between the two are many and reason to call it arsenical.

So no rants against antimony are necessary. I have identified the matter as a phosphate.
This is not another item I am passing in my wanderings. This is the matter of the Alcahest
from urine as many have worked with but none have named openly. This is a matter despised
and a "stone rejected". Who doesn't poop? Can you say that about arsenic? Is it impossible that
arsenic is another deckname? at least sometimes?

Is it possible that alchemists worked on arsenic? Absolutely. I haven't disputed that. I have said
that all the matters of this column are useable if one is adept enough. I just consider phosphorus
to be easier to work with than arsenic. I said that very plainly earlier. But still you go on. Use
arsenic. What I am arguing is what alchemists have stated - the easiest item to work with is one
closest to source yet manifest in a body. There are matters that fit that description better than
phosphates, but arsenic isn't one of them. That doesn't mean you can't use arsenic. Another argument
is that phosphates from urine, blood or dung are microcosmic and capable of being used on all kingdoms.
Arsenic is determined to minerals in the earth, don't you think? That isn't saying you can't make something
wonderful with it.

So, if you could read, you'd realise I've already agreed with you many times, even though I prefer a different
subject. You're not going to get any greater agreement out of me than that. I don't have to go on ebay to buy
urine or poop. And though I could, is it necessary to quote a thousand quotes to make phosphates any more clear?
Every quote you use for arsenic is a quote for phosphorus too. I am in agreement with your quotes. But have so many
people named the first matter so clearly? Or is it meant to conceal phosphorus? Or to be applicable to both?

Do the labwork on phosphorus/phosphates and then you can answer that.
Working on arsenic won't prove that phosphorus doesn't fit the same equation.
But working on phosphorus which has been isolated from the moderators already
present in urine makes it as dangerous as arsenic.

Now tell me, if you can, what is the error in my reasoning?
What is your disagreement with it?
Oh - just this post. Let's stay as present as possible.

rogerc
03-15-2012, 08:38 PM
Now tell me, if you can, what is the error in my reasoning?
What is your disagreement with it?
Oh - just this post. Let's stay as present as possible.


I have no arguement with this post, I as well wrought an alkahest from urine that could dissolve gold and created a stone, remember my Success thread, however the stone was weak and unmultipliable, the gold never underwent an evolution, it never turned black and it won't. But I didn't use the phosphorus from it...I used the top oil and the white earth from which I separated spirit of niter(ammoniacal in nature) and made a butter as GL suggested.

I have done the work, the urine path was the first I read of and performed. Its a path lacking because of how limited the living realms are towards surrendering their spirit towards the work, they like to keep it even in death. The mineral realm on the other hand affords a pure mercury and sulfur hardly weaker than in the universal path with pure SM, so naturally being the quickest way to the true stone, it was the path most authors preferably described...for instance Myriam says the work can be accomplished in the lesser part of a day.


Its traditional name, the stone of the philosophers, is descriptive enough of the body to serve as a useful basis for its identification. It is, indeed, genuinely a stone, for, out of the mine, it shows the external characteristics common to all ores. It is the chaos of the sages, in which the four elements are contained, but in a confused, disorganized manner. It is our old man and the father of metals which owe their origin to it, as it represents the first earthly metallic manifestation. It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena, cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it with their name. It is still called black dragon covered with scales, venomous serpent, daughter of Saturn, and "the most beloved of its children". This primal substance has seen its evolution interrupted by the interposition of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats its pure mercury, holds it back, and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this primitive mercury, materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man, Yet, in this subject --- poor relative of the metal family --- the enlightened artist finds everything that he needs to begin and perfect his Great Work, since it is present, say the authors, at the beginning, the middle, and the end of the Work. Therefore the Ancients have compared it to the Chaos of Creation, where elements and principles, the darkness and the light, were on and the other confounded, intermixed, and unable to mutually interact. For this reason they symbolically depicted their matter in its first being as the image of the world which contained in itself the materials of our hermetic globe (1), or microcosm, assembled without order, without form, without rhythm or measure.

Our globe, reflection and mirror of the microcosm, is therefore nothing but a small part of the primordial Chaos, destined by divine will for elementary renewal in the three kingdoms, but which sets of mysterious circumstances have oriented and directed toward the mineral kingdom. Thus given form and specified, subjected to the laws ruling the evolution and the progression of minerals, this chaos, which has become a body, contains in a confused manner the purest seed and the closest substance there is to minerals and metals. The philosopher’s matter is therefore of mineral and metallic origin. Hence, one must only seek it in the mineral and metallic root, which, says, Basil Valentine in the book, The Twelve Keys, was reserved by the Creator and intended only for the generation of metals. Consequently, anyone who seeks the sacred stone of the philosophers with the hope of encountering this little world in substances alien to the mineral and metallic kingdoms, will never reach his goals

Of course in this regard he doesn't leave room for the universal path and attraction and use of pure SM, so I have sometimes argued against the mineral in favor of the universal, and so its obvious he doesn't know its possible even though he speaks of spirits so often. But like its been said no authors ever described such a path so its obvious they were all speaking of the mineral. And when describing the mineral they all refer to metallic generation and in this regard our search always ends in arsenical sulfur.

Anyways,.... let each work as he chooses, irrespective of the failure of others, my arguement for arsenic has ended...I've provided enough data so everyone can makeup their own minds.

solomon levi
03-15-2012, 08:44 PM
edit - I went back and emphasized the stone in the bladder and safe.
Arsenic isn't safe. The stone in the bladder, which Philalethes and van Helmont
referred to as duelech, is another clue. There are lots of these concretions in horse dung.

According to Philalethes:
7. Q.—Is the property of human urine more noble than the urine of any beast?
A.—By many degrees, for though it be an excrement only, yet its salt hath not its like in the whole universal nature.

37. Q.—Is not this the Alkahest?
A.—This liquor cannot consist without partaking of the virtues of man's blood; and in urine the footsteps thereof are observable.

Man's blood; ADM; DM = blood. Adam is microcosm.

A.—You must know that to transmute things a corruptive ferment is required, in which respect all other salts give place to the strong urinous salt.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/cc/cc03.htm

solomon levi
03-15-2012, 09:04 PM
Okay.
I'll agree that one may find more fire in the mineral.
But as can be seen, the work is more complicated and more dangerous.

What I would be open to is that possibly you have not perfected or exhausted the work on urine;
just because you had limited success doesn't mean that you or others may find even greater success
with greater knowledge. Apparently other alchemists have.
And I would be open to the use of mineral or urinous phosphorus as a substitute for arsenic. It might
make your labors less. Maybe not.

Do you forsee some shortcoming in mineral phosphorus substituted in place of arsenic?
I only enquire for your sake - I won't be using it anytime soon (except in urine).
I just have a feeling they may have hidden phosphorus under the name arsenic sometimes,
and were open about arsenic because of that. All these references to copper/venus/morning star
and light bearers don't lead one to arsenic. Here they were able to talk about phosphorus without
naming it. Perhaps they talked about phosphorus under the deckname arsenic as well, at least sometimes.

On the other hand, probably arsenic, being more dense/corporeal, is better if you want the short fast path.
I agree. That's quite different than extracting the sulfur of this and the mercury of that, etc as the GL post
says.

rogerc
03-16-2012, 12:13 AM
A.—You must know that to transmute things a corruptive ferment is required, in which respect all other salts give place to the strong urinous salt.



Yes, I read all that on urine at the time and agreed upon it, however,.... when hand put to work.... I observed all hermetic philosophy....I worked in the dark. I nailed serpent to salt/cross. I knew phosphorus was a sulfur, its firey nature and the deep red coloration the struvite crystals take on are indicative of that, however....in this regard how do we stay with the classics that say the sulfur must come from gold, how do we reconcile this with phosphorus? It must be a perfect sulfur, the sulfur must come from the mineral realm, the realm of gold. Therfore the best we can hope with from urine is a mercurial solvent or menstruum and even though it dissolves gold...I still don't see the solving being more celestial than terristial, unless we involve other keys and thus my thread on the celestial agriculture was born......


A.—You must know that to transmute things a corruptive ferment is required, in which respect all other salts give place to the strong urinous salt.


Yes, I know,.... that it is the basic underlying tenant in alchemy...to generate something better it must first be corrupted and mortified so that it can take on a new life......but that just the thing, this corruptive spirit was missing, the gold never under went the putrefactive state and hence no exlatation could come, like I said, I observed hermetic philosophy in its handling, it only opened the gold and extracted its sulfur and thus its tinging power was left at 1:1 ratio...nothing grand. But when we combine urine with dew and get a double salt, and a magnetical influence, then the two create a third, thus alchemy is working here as well on the level of salt to begin with, we get a blackening and an exaltation, this spirit carries forth from the very subtle in the beginning, thus we can't go straight to gold with urine, like GCH states we can't go from one extreme to another without a mediator. We have to take baby steps which is why it take years to create a stone this way. The corruptive spirit comes from celestial influences and must be carried along gingerly until it can bear the violence of the more corpreal reactions, hermetic philosophy teaches this as well. But in minerals it is already there, nature has coaxed it along herself, thus serpent is ready to be pinned to cross in a short time. Take this extract from the book of the jew:


Dear brethren our Ancients have yet further seen and taken the Universal Key, whose preparation likewise in the beginning was taught, prepared from the Spiritus Mundi Universal.

This Liquor have they poured on our Old ones, which they first beat small, and placed each other in a Vessel of Acures, in a small heat, till the Liquor is tinged to a grass green colour. The Solution they have poured off, and another poured thereon, till all is extracted, they have poured the clear Solutions together, and distilled 1 part of the Phlegmatic Spirit off, and placed the vessel in a cool place, till a pretty Smaragdine Salt was crystallized. The remainder they have taken and distilled one half of it off, and placed the remainder in a cool place, then is there more green Salt crystallized, and the remainder they have reheated till all the Salt was crystallized. Then have they taken this Salt as a great treasure, and this is in truth the right Green Lion; for out of this Niter is a Spirtus mercurii prepared with a blood red Oil of great effect, and the dear Ancients have prepared in this way the great Mysterium, then what concerns the after work, so is such all one work. You may also in the wet way choose the one you wish. The after work in the wet way is the Menstruum Universale.

Take putrefied Urine and the acetum destillatum Spirit of Tartar amalgam and putrefy with each other, then put Calx Vive in a high alembic, put a still thereon, which has a hole above, and well luted. When this has happened, then put the Alembic in sand, and give Fire, now when you think that the Alembic is heated, pour through a filter of the mixed Liquor, through the hole in the still, so will the Calx Vive be heated, you must however close the hole firmly and must not pour too much on the Calx Vive at once, otherwise it would run over (pour it on gradually), then will thy Spirit go over, collect it, and rectify it yet once per se. With this you can extract from each Minera its Anima, whenever you wish; the menstruum can be prepared without Fire, but the Calx Vive must be good, and is also better in the Operation, when one will prepare this, so instead of Urine take a strong Spirit of Tartar;
so also must everything be well rectified and clean, then it is practicable.

With this Menstruo extract the life and Spirit out of Old Albaon, and according to instruction work in the Wet Way.



He gives us a choice for extracting the life/anima(spirit of metallic generation) from the arsenic ore, either we can use the universal solvent from dew or we can make a less powerful menstruum using putrified urine, tartar and limestone and of course this is underlined in my process on the celestial agriculture...is it coincedence then that it is the basis for the cementation given by Tugel to corrupt silver and take it to a middle state(the silver turns black and is no longer attacked by AR), the first of the processes of "The Gold of The Two Cementations" which I uncovered!




I went back and emphasized the stone in the bladder and safe.
Arsenic isn't safe. The stone in the bladder, which Philalethes and van Helmont
referred to as duelech, is another clue



Yes that's why I put emphasis on the quotes I provided, this one from Anton Kircher GCH :


My teachings will repel many and they will be astonished when they learn that I prepare the gold with arsenic... Sulphur removes all the poison from arsenic and antimony. If a man were to reflect on the true prime origins of gold and other metals, or if he were to take the Mineram Solis, which is one with the other metals, he could immediately change it back into its prime matter. From this the reader learns of the properties of arsenic, how quickly its poison can be removed and thus it is transformed into a better substance.

The first constituent of all marcasites and metals is arsenic. In what mineral or metal can we find common quicksilver except very rarely and accidentally? Instead, you will find Arsenicum and sulphur in each of the aforementioned, be it little or much, but usually in quantity

It is a King of Medicine when it is corrected, one grain or less of it has the most salutory effect in countless diseases. It is penetrating and tinges the blood and vital spirit so intensely that it becomes capable of dispersing even the most pernicious enemy from the body; which other medicines, lacking this power, can never accomplish. Therefore, you must search in every way to find out how its poisonous nature can be allayed...".



(2) Henry Nolius: The Chemist's Key

He that knows not how to fix Arsenic(fix the serpent to the cross), to take away the corrosive nature of sublimate, to coagulate sulphureous spirits, and by a convenient specifical Medicine to break and analyze stones in the greater world, will never in the body of Man allay and tame the Arsenical spirits of the Microcosmic Salt, nor quite take away the venomous indisposition of the Sulphur, nor dissolve the Stone in the bladder, and drive it out being dissolved

rogerc
03-16-2012, 01:37 AM
Okay.
I'll agree that one may find more fire in the mineral.
But as can be seen, the work is more complicated and more dangerous.


Absolutely, but the greatest reward lies with the greatest risk, Sir Lancelot fights the central dragon and chief poison



What I would be open to is that possibly you have not perfected or exhausted the work on urine;
just because you had limited success doesn't mean that you or others may find even greater success
with greater knowledge.


Perhaps you are right, after all what do I know



Do you forsee some shortcoming in mineral phosphorus substituted in place of arsenic?


I don't see spirit of phosphorus as having great ingress into metals, arsenic having the greatest and antimony the next, but of the three it is only arsenic that the philosophers accept as a metallic spirit.


Of The Spirits --- There are three mineral spirits: quicksilver, sulphur and arsenic. Arsenic is hot and dry, of great virtue and potency, yet lightly esteemed. It burns up all other bodies. There are two kinds of arsenic, one is of a pale white, the other red. The red is combustive, the white is solvent, and useful for the Tincture; with quicksilver it makes silver. It has a fiery nature, and sublimes quickly. This spirit we strive to render corporeal and fixed, in order that it may permanently colour our substance. It has great affinity for vinegar...


Heres how I view the nitrogen column, antimony and phosphorus are solar, nitrogen, arsenic and bismuth are lunar.....in order from subtle to more dense/corpreal we have: N->P->As->Sb->Bi->Uup.....lunar, solar,lunar,solar,lunar, and Uup if an island of stability does occur for a metal as dense would be solar in nature if we continue the cycle out. All that being said I only see nitrogen and arsenic as usable in alchemy I know bismuth has great potential but its virtue seems to be entirely astral in nature and I haven't been able to pin it, but of those who have, they described some wonderous powers not like the stone in nature, but like doorways for consciousness to pass, perhaps to communicate with God himself, some of this is apparent in its crystallization for indeed if arsenic and antimony reguli appear in a star pattern, bismuth shows the pythagorean(golden) ratio in its crystallization.

solomon levi
03-16-2012, 02:07 AM
If I continue the argument, it is only for the sake of debate - nothing personal.
I just like to dissect the material.

"Its traditional name, the stone of the philosophers, is descriptive enough of the body to serve as a useful basis for its identification."

That's an interesting statement.
Which seems more like philosophorum? Phosphorus or arsenic?
PH il OS o PHORVM

Phosphorus from the mine, mineral - not human mine/intestinal - fits the following:

"It is, indeed, genuinely a stone, for, out of the mine, it shows the external characteristics common to all ores. It is the chaos of the sages, in which the four elements are contained, but in a confused, disorganized manner. It is our old man and the father of metals which owe their origin to it, as it represents the first earthly metallic manifestation. It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena, cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it with their name."

All ORes (OR = light; phosphORus) render homage to it with their name through the hermetic voice.
Through phonetic cabala? Why would he mention the names of all these which are
known to be decknames and not mention phosphorus, but refer to it repeatedly by
cabala?

Perhaps GCH should not be taken so literally as well. PERHAPS.
Did he decide to openly name it, or did he continue the tradition to veil it
under a deckname - one which is a very close likeness? I think we should be
open to the possibility.

"It is still called black dragon covered with scales, venomous serpent, daughter of Saturn, and "the most beloved of its children"."

Arsenic doesn't even hold a place in mythology as far as I know. These clues would be
totally pointless unless they refer to Venus, aka phosphorus. The link between phosphorus
and venus is clear. What is the link between arsenic and venus? Thinking can create/invent a link,
but show me an established one as I have shown with phosphorus.

"For this reason they symbolically depicted their matter in its first being as the image of the world which contained in itself the materials of our hermetic globe, or microcosm, assembled without order, without form, without rhythm or measure."

Again, we can through thinking say, "okay, arsenic is a microcosm". But phosphorus actually
manifests it in man and every living thing as the bearer of light/fire. Arsenic doesn't.

"Our globe, reflection and mirror of the microcosm, is therefore nothing but a small part of the primordial Chaos, destined by divine will for elementary renewal in the three kingdoms, but which sets of mysterious circumstances have oriented and directed toward the mineral kingdom."

Underlined and bold by RogerC. Okay, but phosphorus fits that description too. Even better since he
mentioned the three kingdoms.

Concerning the remainder of the post, phosphorus fits that description as well as arsenic on all points
except perhaps if it is the root of metals. Is it or isn't it? GCH is probably the only source we can find
which has described it. So it all comes down to that and one's reason. So be sure that you see for yourself
the root and not believe another. Just for the sake of objectivity, try reading it and replacing arsenic with
phosphorus and see if it is any less reasonable.

Mineral and metallic root. Is it arsenic?
Let's find the evidence other than GCH.
Is there evidence not related to alchemy?
Can we look at geology and chemistry?
What is so magical about the existence of arsenic that science can't touch it?

Anyway - everyone do what you like of course.
But I'm going to research until it makes complete sense to me
and not take anyone else' word for it.

rogerc
03-16-2012, 07:18 AM
Arsenic doesn't even hold a place in mythology as far as I know.

Come, come.... now ....Saturn, dragon, basilisk, gorgon just to name a few.



These Concerning the remainder of the post, phosphorus fits that description as well as arsenic on all points
except perhaps if it is the root of metals. Is it or isn't it? GCH is probably the only source we can find
which has described it. So it all comes down to that and one's reason. Mineral and metallic root. Is it arsenic?
Let's find the evidence other than GCH.
Is there evidence not related to alchemy?
Can we look at geology and chemistry?
What is so magical about the existence of arsenic that science can't touch it?



I could really fill the page with additonal corespondence besides GCH, I gave a couple above that states the same, about arsenic and sulfur being present in all metallic ore bodies, and yes we can refer to geology if you like, it confirms it,

The very definition of ore:http://www.brainyquote.com/words/or/ore196755.html



Ore:
The native form of a metal, whether free and uncombined, as gold, copper, etc., or combined, as iron, lead, etc. Usually the ores contain the metals combined with oxygen, sulphur, arsenic, etc. (called mineralizers).




Encyclopaedia britannica: or a dictionary of arts ..., Volume 11, Issue 2 (http://books.google.com/books?id=k2xBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA460&lpg=PA460&dq=all+metallic+ores+contain+arsenic+and++sulfur&source=bl&ots=FvaSh97vLx&sig=-TgDe8emr-BZ9uX7WbPj65QH3RM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ct5iT8agFsbs2QWD55nkCQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=all%20metallic%20ores%20contain%20arsenic%20and% 20%20sulfur&f=false)




Smelting of ores in general

As ores consist of metallic matters combined with sulfur and arsenic,
and are besides intermixed with earth and stoney substances of all kinds....
...But on the other, as arsenic is capable of volatilizing, scorifying, and destroying many metals
these ores have disadvantages in the roasting and fusion, in both which considerable loss is cause by the arsenic.


Now lets put the above in perspective...I've worked many ore bodies containing gold, among the most problematic and less amendable to cyanidation are the arsenic and tellurium ores, but with the tellurium its easy, we roast with salt and the tellurium gases off and leaves the gold ready for extraction with no perceptible loss, the ores high in arsenic on the other hand just like the above states that when heated, the arsenic destroys the metals with it, completely unrecoverable, so where does this metal go? Does it return to its first matter as hermetic philosophy teaches by way of spirit of arsenic? True spirit of Saturn that gobbles up its children.

Like I said above, I could fill the page with alchemy coorespondence other than GCH which says the same about arsenic and sulfur but instead since I am just a nobody I will just refer the reader to this page, since this fellow has saved me the trouble....I do wish I had been knowledgable enough to recognize all of this when I first came across this gem:

Adept Alchemy Part I Ars Magna Chapter 3 Arsenic & Gur (http://www.rexresearch.com/adept/aai3as.htm#18)

Then after you have familiarized yourself thoroughly with our matter you can proceed to this page and start going through all the works that have described the ars(enic) brevis/magna. Remember that Pontanus erred above two hundred times on our matter for lack of knowledge of the true mineral/secret fire http://www.rexresearch.com/adept/aai2vsb.htm#23myr

Thankfully between Pontanus and us have come many learned adepts to fill in the gaps they left so that now nothing is left to be discovered in our art, only the decision and the will to procede.

rogerc
03-16-2012, 07:51 AM
Heres one of my favorites from the Arsenic and Gur website that ties in nicely with what I said before about the Chinese and the Elixir of Immortality concerning realgar:


Joseph Needham ~ The Theoretical Background of Elixir Alchemy

(iii) Time as the Essential Parameter of Mineral Growth --- The protean metalline metamorphoses of the Huai Nan Tzu book were avoided by later alchemists, who accepted much more straightforwardly the archaic idea of the gradual perfection of minerals within the terrestrial matrix. Here the idea is expressed with pristine simplicity in one of the most influential of all alchemical writings, the supplementary instructions (chueh), probably of the early Sung, which now accompany the Han Yellow Emperor’s Canon of the Nine-Vessel Spiritual Elixir:

Realgar occurs in the same mountains as orpiment, and is formed by the transformation of orpiment. (This latter) great medicine of heaven and earth (i.e., of the natural order) is called 'doe yellow' (tzhu huang). When eight thousand years have passed, it transforms into realgar, the variant name of which is 'imperial male seminal essence (ti nan ching). After another thousand years have passed it transforms into yellow gold, with the variant name 'Victuals of the Perfected (or Realized) Immortals’ (chen jen fan)...

Among the scriptures taken down by Yang Hsi, Thao had also found actual instructions for alchemical preparations. Two of these formulae still exist in their entirety. One, called Thai-Shang Pa-Ching Ssu-Jui Tzu-Chiang (Wu-Chu) Chiang Shêng Shen Tan Shang Ching (Exalted Manual of the Eight-Radiances Four-Stamens Purple-Fluid Crimson Incarnation Numinous Elixir, a Thai-Shang Scripture), is preserved in the Shang-Chhing Thai-Shang Ti Chün Chiu Chen Chung Ching (Ninefold Realised Median Canon of the Imperial Lord, a Shang-Chhing Thai-Shang Scripture); a work otherwise devoted to techniques for encountering various deities in meditation --- making them appear from within one's body, from the sun and moon, and from inside unusually coloured clouds that conceal the immortals as they travel through the sky. The elixir recipe itself, for all its twenty-four ingredients and 104 days of heating, is clearly phrased in the language of the laboratory, and could be carried out in one today. The ingredients are given elaborate cover-names, but all are defined in notes recording oral instructions (khou chüeh) ascribed to the first Patriarch of Taoism, Chang Tao-Ling (+2nd century): e.g. Crimson Tumulus Vermilion Boy (chiang ling chu erh = cinnabar, HgS), Elixir Mountain Solar Animus (tan shan jih hun = realgar, As2S2), Arcane Belvedere Lunar Radiance (hsüan thai yüeh hua = orpiment, As2S3). The formula is not dissimilar on the whole to later alchemical recipes in terminology and technique...

solomon levi
03-16-2012, 10:56 AM
"Arsenic doesn't even hold a place in mythology as far as I know."

"Come, come.... now ....Saturn, dragon, basilisk, gorgon just to name a few."


That's different. We don't have to postulate that venus is morning star is phosphorus is lucifer.
It's commonly known, therefore mythology. One word is synonymous with the other.

Noone, no book on mythology, associates arsenic with some planet or dragons or anything.
If so, provide the quote/source. You only gave your personal interpretation, not a mythological one.

Again, no non-alchemists reads myths of Saturn and sees arsenic in it.
Besides, even you said arsenic is solar male. It's not a daughter of Saturn. The very word "arsenic" means male.
Phosphorus/venus is indeed the beautiful and most beloved daughter of Saturn.
That's common well-known mythology for anyone who has studied mythology.

I googled arsenic and mythology and only one item was found, and that because i am looking specifically for it:
"Hephaestus’s ugly appearance and lameness is taken by some to represent arsenicosis, an effect of low levels of arsenic exposure that would result in lameness and skin cancers."

Google phosphorus and mythology and the association is very evident for anyone to see.

Pleroma
03-16-2012, 01:28 PM
Read Guasco...the regimien of sulfur he mainly gives by way of realgar but, a weaker sulfur can be had by opening gold with mercury and dissolving the mercury with a homemade oxalic acid from animal slack, which leaves the gold in a white lime calx state, this material is then distilled with the same colorless petroleum as way of realgar and we get the sulfur of re-animated gold but as he says its weaker, much better to use philosophers gold/kibric which is realgar which is alive gold.

i read guasco on sulphur, but he doesnt mention how to make the stone using realgar.
It just says how to make an oil.

solomon levi
03-16-2012, 02:15 PM
Yes, I read all that on urine at the time and agreed upon it, however,.... when hand put to work.... I observed all hermetic philosophy....I worked in the dark. I nailed serpent to salt/cross. I knew phosphorus was a sulfur, its firey nature and the deep red coloration the struvite crystals take on are indicative of that, however....in this regard how do we stay with the classics that say the sulfur must come from gold, how do we reconcile this with phosphorus? It must be a perfect sulfur, the sulfur must come from the mineral realm, the realm of gold. Therfore the best we can hope with from urine is a mercurial solvent or menstruum and even though it dissolves gold...I still don't see the solving being more celestial than terristial, unless we involve other keys and thus my thread on the celestial agriculture was born......



Yes, I know,.... that it is the basic underlying tenant in alchemy...to generate something better it must first be corrupted and mortified so that it can take on a new life......but that just the thing, this corruptive spirit was missing, the gold never under went the putrefactive state and hence no exlatation could come, like I said, I observed hermetic philosophy in its handling, it only opened the gold and extracted its sulfur and thus its tinging power was left at 1:1 ratio...nothing grand. But when we combine urine with dew and get a double salt, and a magnetical influence, then the two create a third, thus alchemy is working here as well on the level of salt to begin with, we get a blackening and an exaltation, this spirit carries forth from the very subtle in the beginning, thus we can't go straight to gold with urine, like GCH states we can't go from one extreme to another without a mediator. We have to take baby steps which is why it take years to create a stone this way. The corruptive spirit comes from celestial influences and must be carried along gingerly until it can bear the violence of the more corpreal reactions, hermetic philosophy teaches this as well. But in minerals it is already there, nature has coaxed it along herself, thus serpent is ready to be pinned to cross in a short time. Take this extract from the book of the jew:



He gives us a choice for extracting the life/anima(spirit of metallic generation) from the arsenic ore, either we can use the universal solvent from dew or we can make a less powerful menstruum using putrified urine, tartar and limestone and of course this is underlined in my process on the celestial agriculture...is it coincedence then that it is the basis for the cementation given by Tugel to corrupt silver and take it to a middle state(the silver turns black and is no longer attacked by AR), the first of the processes of "The Gold of The Two Cementations" which I uncovered!



Phosphorus isn't a sulphur. It's a nitrogen/nitre/arsenic/mercury.
Oxygen is its sulphur. It makes phosphates like arsenic and sulfur make sulfides.

"Sulphur must come from gold..." phosphorus "bears" sol/gold. It is red and violet internally after cooking the white.
Urine is golden water. I'm sure there is some iron in there from the blood. Maybe.
Holland warns several times not to use any metals:
"If you know the Stone, take it in its coarseness, congeal it till it is thick, and guard it from all metals, because
the Stone would turn into weeds, for it is their nature to make all things pure and clean...
...pour the water above off into a wooden or stone vessel. Do be on guard against the metals, otherwise
the blessed Stone will be spoiled and corrupted."

"and thus my thread on the celestial agriculture was born......"
Yeah, I'm considering involving lime also. Urine can be putrefied by the addition of lime.
This may increase the amount of volatile alkali through the addition of carbonate/lime
and give it some additional fire.

"the gold never under went the putrefactive state..."
Then you did something wrong.
I'd have to know exactly what you did to give a good criticism.
But if it didn't putrefy the gold, you missed something.
There is only one thing, I gather, that must be added.
And then there are two important circulations/marriages -
one before adding to the sprouted grass, and one after.

"But when we combine urine with dew and get a double salt, and a magnetical influence, then the two
create a third, thus alchemy is working here as well on the level of salt to begin with..."
Is it your understanding that Diana's doves are dew?

solomon levi
03-16-2012, 04:15 PM
I don't see spirit of phosphorus as having great ingress into metals, arsenic having the greatest and antimony the next, but of the three it is only arsenic that the philosophers accept as a metallic spirit.

Heres how I view the nitrogen column, antimony and phosphorus are solar, nitrogen, arsenic and bismuth are lunar.....in order from subtle to more dense/corpreal we have: N->P->As->Sb->Bi->Uup.....lunar, solar,lunar,solar,lunar, and Uup if an island of stability does occur for a metal as dense would be solar in nature if we continue the cycle out. All that being said I only see nitrogen and arsenic as usable in alchemy I know bismuth has great potential but its virtue seems to be entirely astral in nature and I haven't been able to pin it, but of those who have, they described some wonderous powers not like the stone in nature, but like doorways for consciousness to pass, perhaps to communicate with God himself, some of this is apparent in its crystallization for indeed if arsenic and antimony reguli appear in a star pattern, bismuth shows the pythagorean(golden) ratio in its crystallization.

Don't forget the fourth spirit - sal ammoniac. (according to Paracelsus)

rogerc
03-16-2012, 10:53 PM
i read guasco on sulphur, but he doesnt mention how to make the stone using realgar.
It just says how to make an oil.

This is oil is the blood of christ, it is dried to a powder and it is the red sulfur, in effect it is a finished stone the medicine of the first order, if used only to be used on humans no need to take it any further. The stone is brought to a higher order only through philosophic mercury/SM and philosophic salt, the three are married together to get a true stone in the classical sense. So read his tracts on mercury and salt...better to read them in order to get a better handle on the work.

rogerc
03-16-2012, 11:40 PM
Again, no non-alchemists reads myths of Saturn and sees arsenic in it.
Besides, even you said arsenic is solar male. It's not a daughter of Saturn. The very word "arsenic" means male.


No, I said arsenical sulfur is a solar male in the mineral realgar.... I said arsenic is lunar (I hear a snake hiss again).....I continue to echo GCH in this regard...in ores where arsenic predominates these metals are lunar, so hence arsenic is lunar thats why it was called spirit of mercury or mercurial spirit.

Arsenic was given its name because of the way it bites into metals and devours them, just like in the mythology in Kronos until Rhea when Zeus was born gave him a rock to swallow instead later Zeus grows up and prepares an emetic based on antimony so he could vomit forth his brothers and sisters...and you can't see Saturn in this? More so than lead? Does lead devour metals and hold them in its belly in a confused state? Does phosphorus? Look back up at my article from the Encyclopedia Britainanica arsenic does devour metals, this is my experience as well in working with complex ores as I said.




Phosphorus/venus is indeed the beautiful and most beloved daughter of Saturn.
That's common well-known mythology for anyone who has studied mythology.

Why do keep confusing mythology with the bible, Venus the planet is called lucifer in the bible, not in mythology ...everybody knows that from the alchemy, mythology coorespondence..... Venus is either copper or our lunar mercurial water. When we hear of the allegory of Neptune catching Venus and Mars in adultery/fornication and he casts a love net around them.... like I've said a few times before already Eleazar explains it correctly here:
Lancea; in the Study of the Metallic Natures, the History of Phinehas, Numbers, c. 25, v. 7, belongs to this place. By the Fornicators are understood the (Masculine) Arsenical Sulphur, and the (feminine) dry Water unduly mixed, together in the Mineral.

By the Spear of Phinehas is meant the Force of Iron acting upon the Matter to cleanse it of Dross: By which Iron, not only is the Arsenical Sulphur killed, but also the Woman herself is at length mortified; so that the Miracle of Phinehas may be fitly applied here. See also the Targum on this Place, i.e., Numbers, c. 25, v. 7. For the Nature of Iron is wonderful, as its Camea (whose lines add up to 65 each way) shews.






I googled arsenic and mythology and only one item was found, and that because i am looking specifically for it:
"Hephaestus’s ugly appearance and lameness is taken by some to represent arsenicosis, an effect of low levels of arsenic exposure that would result in lameness and skin cancers."


Good I was going to mention this one, but I was going to allow you to find it on your own, since I know you are playing games with me, I decided to play one back, when I give a coorespondence you reject it, but when you give it you seem to accept it simply because you found it, its like you take ownership over what you find and argue against what I find...but I don't own it, its out there for everybody to find and connect the dots, but you have to forget about whatever you have in mind because you force your subject into the iconography of what you are reading even if it doesn't belong, you trick your self into seeing this is what I think you are doing with phosphorus or it is a complete game. I wanted to know the truth so I emptied myself of all preconceptions, and I read and read and read some more and let the evidence present itself, instead of always having a subject in mind when reading the texts and say well it seems like this so lets see if it fits type of thing. Go back and read my post on the Celestial Agriculture I documented how I arrived at realgar(arsenical sulfur).

Now if we read Guasco he echos the quote you threw up on Aphroditite and Hephaestus plus he grounds everything in mythology coorespondence if you need more:



A l´or, métal solaire, s´adjoignent le cuivre de Vénus et le fer de Mars. A gold metal solar adjoin themselves to the copper and iron Venus of Mars. Certain épisode de la mythologie grecque nous apprend qu´Aphrodite avait pour Ares des affinités très marquées.. Certain episode of Greek mythology tells us that Aphrodite was very marked affinities of Ares .. Elle était l´amante d´Arès et Héphaïstos, le mari trompé acceptait son infortune avec bienveillance. She was the lover of Ares and Hephaestus, the betrayed husband accepted her misfortune with kindness.

Héphaïstos, Dieu forgeron, représente le feu qui scellera l´union du fer et du cuivre. Hephaestus, blacksmith God, represents the fire that will seal the union of iron and copper

The terms for the three sulfur compounds are:
A pollon A pollon
A phrodite A phrodite
A rès
Les trois lettres initiales ne sont que les 3 A de l´AZOTH de Paracelse. The three initial letters are only the 3 A's Azoth of Paracelsus.
Le commencement de l´infini dans les trois langues sacrées. The beginning of the infinite in the three sacred languages.

A A à to Z Z
Alpha Alpha à to O O
Alep Aleppo à to Th Th

S OL OL S
V énus V enus
M ars M arch
Et la lecture des trois premières lettres, verticalement et de haut en bas donne : And reading the first three letters, vertically up and down and gives:
S V M M S V
qui est la définition que Jésus-Christ donne de lui-même : "JE SUIS" , mais aussi celle du soufre philosophique. which is the definition that Jesus Christ gives of himself: "I AM", but also the philosophical sulfur.

Un adepte peu connu, René Schwaeble a donné dans son livre " L´Alchimie Simplifiée " une description remarquable du soufre. A little known follower, Rene Schwaeble gave in his book "The Alchemy Simplified" a remarkable description of sulfur.
Il utilisait pour son expérimentation de l´or natif, d´où une préparation peu rentable, mais il démontra que la transmutation des métaux n´était pas un mythe, ce qui était le but de son œuvre. He used for his experimentation with native gold, resulting in a preparation unprofitable, but he demonstrated that the transmutation of metals was not a myth, what was the purpose of his work.

Sa façon de travailler l´or, et le résultat laissent à penser qu´il œuvrait à coup sûr et que c´était un adepte qui parlait. His way to work in gold, and the results suggest that it was working for sure and that he was a follower who spoke.

Un autre alchimiste désigne le soufre par un dragon que l´on tue avec une épée flamboyante au pommeau de cuivre : le dragon, le réalgar, est tué par le feu incandescent et le cuivre supporte le fer. Another alchemist denotes sulfur by a dragon that can kill with a flaming sword at the pommel of copper: the dragon, realgar, is killed by fire glowing copper and iron supports. Rien n´est omis, les vapeurs suffocantes et nocives tourbillonnent... Nothing is omitted, the suffocating fumes and noxious swirl ...

La composition du soufre était connue, représentée, décrite. The composition of the sulfur was known, represented, described.

Fulcanelli, lui, disait d´utiliser des métaux de mêmes affinités, de ne pas mélanger au départ les mâles et les femelles (lire les rouges et les blancs). Fulcanelli also speaks to utilize metals in the same affinities, not to mix departing males and females (see the red and white). Tout l´art est là. The art is there.

Pour travailler ces trois éléments : il faudra d´abord pulvériser le réalgar, puis le dissoudre avec de la potasse. To work these three things: first you need to spray realgar, then dissolve it with potash.
Un poème de F. A poem by F. Villon, tiré de la Ballade, donne la définition du soufre. Villon, alleging Ballade, defines sulfur.


En réalgar, en arsenic rocher In realgar, arsenic in rock
En orpiment, en salpêtre et chaux vive In orpiment, in saltpetre and quicklime
En plomb bouillant pour mieux les emorcher In boiling lead to better emorcher
En suif et poix détrempé de lessive Tallow and pitch soggy laundry
Faite d´étain et de pissat de juive Made of tin and piss of Jewish



Dont voici la traduction : Whom the following:

Dans le minerai de réalgar ou d´orpiment In the mineral realgar or orpiment
Que tu dissous avec de la soude (potasse) You dissolved with sodium hydroxide (potash)
Rendue liquide pour le ronger Liquid made ​​for biting
Rendu comme poix détrempé, (c´est-à-dire) Rendered as soggy pitch, (that is to say)
Fermenté dans le bain de Marie la juive (bain marie). Fermented in the bath of the Jewish Marie (water bath).

Dans cette strophe, tous les éléments sont désignés et la description comporte peu de mystère. In this stanza, all items are identified and described with little mystery. Villon a été un Initié avant que d´être un adepte de la Cour des Miracles. Villon was an Initiate before being a follower of the Court of Miracles.

Mais, reconnaissons que s´il a livré au vulgaire l´art de I´Argô, le véhicule, l´arche des Argonautes, c´est-à-dire un langage secret, il a su lui conserver avec une ironie marquée, son symbolisme : l´Argot Cabalistique étant devenu l´argot de la cabane (prison) parlé par les malandrins, la langue Verte : (de Vert = Vérité) . But, recognize that it has delivered to the vulgar art of I'Argô the vehicle, the ark of the Argonauts, that is to say, a secret language, he was able to preserve with marked irony, his symbolism: the Cabalistic Slang has become the slang of the house (prison) spoken by the bandits, language Green (Vert = Truth).

A ce sujet, l´Argot, langage mystérieux, a été construit par l´homme aux cent yeux, celui qui sait et qui voit tout, Argus , tué par les Argiphontes, (autre nom de Mercure) . In this regard, Argot, mysterious language, was built by the man with a hundred eyes, one who knows and sees all, Argus, killed by Argiphontes, (another name for Mercury).
A sa mort, les dieux se sont emparés de ses yeux dont ils ont ocelé la queue d´un paon. At his death, the gods took over his eyes they ocelé the tail of a peacock. En clair, le mercure détruit et tue et au stade final de l´opération, les couleurs irisées sont celles du paon. Clearly, mercury destroys and kills and the final stage of the operation, the iridescent colors are those of the peacock


So you have reinforced this even more...thank you! :)Fulcanelli alludes to this as well when he speak of leprosy:


As for the second body --- passive and feminine --- Louis d’Estissac had it represented
under the shape of a harelipped gnome, equipped with breasts, head covered with a scaly
helmet. We already knew from the descriptions left by classical authors that this mineral
substance as it is extracted from its mine is scaly, black, hard, and dry. Some have called
it leprous. The Greek [*222-1] (lepis, lepidos), scale, has among its derivatives the Greek
[*222-2] (lepra), leprosy because this frightful infection covers the epiderm with pustules
and scales. And so it is essential to drive away the coarse and superficial impurity from
the body by removing its scaly envelope ([*222-3] --- lepizo), an operation which we
easily realize with the aid of the active principle, the agent with the grooved helmet.
Taking as an example Moses’ gesture it will suffice to sharply strike this rock ([*223-1] -
-- lepas) of arid and dry appearance three times in order to see the mysterious water that
it contains, spring forth. It is the first solvent, common mercury of the sages, faithful
servant of the artist, the only thing he needs and that nothing can replace according to the
testimony of Geber and of the most ancient Adepts. Its volatile quality which allowed
philosophers to assimilate this mercury to the common hydrargyrum,(like Anton Kircher and the other do) is moreover
emphasized on our bas-relief by the tiny lepidoptera wings (Greek [*223-2], [*223-3] ---
lepidos-pteron) affixed to the shoulders of the symbolic monster. However, in our
opinion, the best name that authors have given to their mercury seems to be Spirit of
magnesia. For they call magnesia (Greek [*223-4] --- magnes, magnet) the coarse
feminine matter which attracts by an occult virtue the spirit enclosed beneath the hard
shell of the steel of the sages. The latter, penetrating like a burning flame into the body of
the passive nature, burns, consumes its heterogeneous parts, drives away the arsenical
(leprous) sulphur, and animates the pure mercury it contains and which appears in the
conventional form of a liquor both humid and igneous --- the fire water of the Ancients --
- which we call Spirit of Magnesia and universal solvent.

So you can see with this last part that I put in bold it is the same operation Eleazar relates, we have the subjects in arsenical sulfur(scaly helmet), iron(grooved helmet) (or KOH or a combination of both) and the woman(our dry water)...the same as from the mythological allegory...so in this resepct I take exception with Guasco if the woman is venus, fellow fornicator from the study of lancea of Eleazar is our dry water unduly mixed in the mineral realgar, then there is no need to include copper...but here is the condundrum Hephaestus' wife was Aphroditite not Venus, but its the confusion in mythological tales we get that is product of when the romans stole the pantheon of the Gods from the Greeks and renamed then with Roman names, they also altered their nature. Guasco also speaks of lance water which is KOH so this could be the knight armed with lance and shield while Ares is mars, iron.


(5) Longin, in the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ, plays the same tole as St Michael and
St George; Cadmos, Perseus, Jason make a similar gesture among the pagans. He pierces
with a blow of his lance the side of Christ just as the celestial knights and the Greek
heroes pierce the dragon. This is a symbolic act whose positive application to hermetic
labor is pregnant with fortunate consequences


"I have said in my Summary mentioned above that the enemy would
enflame by his ardor the fire of his enemy and then if we pay heed, one would see in the
air a venomous fume of a bad odor, worse in flame and in poison than the envenomed
head of a snake and of a Babylonian dragon". Generally when they only speak of a
dragon philosophers think of the volatile. They recommend to kill it by piercing it with
the thrust o a lance; and this operation has become among them the subject of numerous
fables and various allegories. The agent is veiled under several names of similar esoteric
value: Mars, Martha, Marcel, Michael, George, etc., and these knights of the sacred art,
after a fierce fight which they always win, open in the flank of the mythical snake a large
wound out of which flows a dark, thick, and viscous blood (12). Such is the secret truth
which proclaims, on his wooden


For you, unknown brothers of the mysterious city of the sun, we have formed the
resolution of teaching the diverse and successive modes of our purifications. You will be
thankful to us, we are certain, to have pointed out to you these reefs of the hermetic sea,
against which so many inexperienced Argonauts have been shipwrecked. If you want to
possess the griffin --- which is our astral stone --- by tearing it from its arsenical ganque,
take two parts of virgin earth, our scaly dragon, and one part of the igneous agent, which
is that valiant knight armed with the lance and shield. [*152-1] (Ares), more vigorous
than Aries, must be in a lesser quantity. Pulverize and add the fifteenth part of this pure,
white, admirable salt, washed and crystallized several times, which you must necessarily
know. Intimately mix it; and then, following the example of the painful Passion of Our
Lord, crucify it with three iron nails, so that the body dies and can then be resurrected.

So we can see how Guasco's protocol on sulfur holds true to Fulcanelli's entire discourse, because the inital operation involves fermenting in a water bath, realgar, Koh, iron nitrate and copper nitrate...the end result is the blood of christ that he so often refers to when speaking of this mineral and the blow with the lance made by the roman to ensure Christ was dead, the blood being caught by Joseph of Arimethia in the chalice called "Holy Graal"...remember again the anagram re-algar...algar....graal. But it holds true as well in the fight with the dragon(arsenical sulfur) and the knight armed with lance and shield. And so there can be no arguement here I provide thequote where Fulcanelli outright calls the dragon arsenical sulfur:


From the combat that the knight, or secret sulphur, engages with the arsenical sulphur of the old dragon, is born the astral stone, white, heavy, shining as pure silver, and which
appears to be signed, bearing the imprint of its nobility, its stamp (1) esoterically
translated as the griffin, a sure indication of the union and peace between fire and water,
between air and earth

Pleroma
03-17-2012, 02:03 AM
This is oil is the blood of christ, it is dried to a powder and it is the red sulfur, in effect it is a finished stone the medicine of the first order, if used only to be used on humans no need to take it any further. The stone is brought to a higher order only through philosophic mercury/SM and philosophic salt, the three are married together to get a true stone in the classical sense. So read his tracts on mercury and salt...better to read them in order to get a better handle on the work.

interesting...so can we only ingest the medicine of the first order only? no higher?
What is the iron and copper for?it prob for the sulfur, but is it only used if we don't have gold?
I did read the other parts. I was just wondering why would we need to do all that work when abraham says that realgar has the dry water when we sublime it, the white arsenic that sticks to the flask. He calls it the dry water. just mix silver or gold with it.

like here from the Aesch Mezareph.


Let the Red Minera of Silver be taken, let it be ground very finely;
add an Ounce and a half of the Calx of Luna to six Ounces of it. Let
it be placed in a Sand bath in a Vial sealed. Let there be given a
small Fire for the first Eight Days, lest its Radical Humidity be
burnt up. The second Week, one degree stronger; and the third yet
stronger; and on the fourth, that the sand may not be red hot, but so
that when Water is dropped upon it, it may hiss. Then on the top of
the Glass, thou shalt have a White Matter, which is the Materia Prima
or tinging Arsenic, being the living Water of Metals, which all
Philosophers call dry Water, or their Vinegar. Let this be purified
thus: Take of the Crystalline Matter sublimed; Let it be ground upon
a Marble, with an equal part of Calx of Luna, and let it be put into
a Vial sealed, and set in a Sand bath again, the first two Hours with
a gentle Fire, the second with a stronger, and the third with one yet
more violent, and increased till the Sand will hiss, and our Arsenic
will be sublimed again, the starry Beams being sent forth. And since
a quantity of this is required thou shalt augment it thus

abraham says that when it is sublimed 7 times, it will no longer be poisonous...

rogerc
03-17-2012, 06:29 AM
interesting...so can we only ingest the medicine of the first order only? no higher?

Yes, there are many tracts on the philosophers stone that say the same, the greater orders of the stone being fit to transmute metals only.
However I tend to think that once it is applied to a living being and the being transformed by it, the being is now of a higher order as well, and if he were to take the medicine of the second order I don't believe it would kill him but instead continue to transmute both his body and soul until, the being became a bright, shiny immortal being, so is supposed to be a true rosea croix.



What is the iron and copper for?it prob for the sulfur, but is it only used if we don't have gold?

Correct, but since gold is complete as far as the operation of the sun goes, the spirit is left it, thats why the philosophers equated gold with a dry oak tree, they on the other hand required living gold, which they found in realgar, and they do call it "our gold" or "living gold". Guasco seems to think that to have a complete sulfur we need the sulfur of all solar occult metals, just like in his mercury regimien he requires the mercury of all lunar occult metals, about the mercury regimien I tend to agree, since alone they are all inferior and individually not fit for the work and not equal to the mercury in gold which is perfect, but together their fragmentation, caused by their father Saturn, is corrected and Osiris is reassembled.




I did read the other parts. I was just wondering why would we need to do all that work when abraham says that realgar has the dry water when we sublime it, the white arsenic that sticks to the flask. He calls it the dry water. just mix silver or gold with it.
like here from the Aesch Mezareph.

abraham says that when it is sublimed 7 times, it will no longer be poisonous...

Yes, but he is working the regimien of mercury not sulfur....I have realized what Fulcanelli means with the RER formula, it pertains to arsenical sulfur as it relates to orpiment(work of mercury) or realgar (work of sulfur) respectively:


What, then, is this RER?-We have seen that RE means a
thing, a matter; R, which is half RE, will mean a half thing or a half
mutter. RER, then, is the equivalent of a matter increased by half
of another or of itself. Note that it is not here a question of proportions,
but of a chemical combination independent of reIative
quantities. In order to make myself better understood, let me give
an example. Let us suppose that the matter represented by RE is
realgar, or natural sulphur of arsenic. R, half RE, could then be
the sulphur of the realgar or its arsenic, which are similar or different
according to whether you consider the sulphur and the arsenic
I separately or combined in the realgar. In this way the RER will be
obtained by augmenting the realgar with sulphur, which is considered
as forming half the realgar, or with arsenic, which is seen as
the other half in the same red sulphide.

Both orpiment and realgar are arsenical sulfides however the adepts along with the Chinese as I state above both considered orpiment to be lunar and realgar to be solar and just as Fulcanelli states its the same material at different states of evolution both in material form as well as incorpreal spirit. Here the Chinese said the same:
Realgar occurs in the same mountains as orpiment, and is formed by the transformation of orpiment. (This latter) great medicine of heaven and earth (i.e., of the natural order) is called 'doe yellow' (tzhu huang). When eight thousand years have passed, it transforms into realgar, the variant name of which is 'imperial male seminal essence (ti nan ching). After another thousand years have passed it transforms into yellow gold, with the variant name 'Victuals of the Perfected (or Realized) Immortals’ (chen jen fan)...
And this continues to make sense..... if you look back at the brief lexicon of words relating to arsenic I gave earlier:


Virgin --- The Moon or Mercurial Water of the Sages, after it has been purified from the unclean and Arsenical Sulphurs with which it has been combined in the mines… (this confirms Eleazar..... arsenical sulfur and dry water unduley mixed in the mineral)

Water --- Arsenical Water. The Green Lion of the Philosophers. [N.B.: --- Orpiment in ammonia water].



Hence if spirit of realgar is the red lion then spirit of orpiment is the green lion. To make the green red he needs the "RE" which Guasco says comes from the sun this affirms the iconic symbol of green lion devouring sun: http://www.metahistory.org/images/GreenLion.jpg

http://yaka-asso.org/yaka/rosee/rosee_img/lr_62.png

Pleroma
03-17-2012, 03:22 PM
Yes, but he is working the regimien of mercury not sulfur

the regimen of mecury is for the white stone only?


Now for the White Work. Take 21 Drachms of this White Earth, 14 Drachms of the Lunar Water, 10 Drachms of Calx of most pure Luna; mix them upon a marble slab and commit them to Coagulation, till they grow hard; imbibe it with three parts of its own Water, till it hath drank up this Portion; and repeat that so often, till it flow on a Copper Plate, made red hot, without Smoke; and then thou shalt have the Tincture for the White, which thou mayest increase by the means aforesaid.

For the Red, you must use Calx of Sol, and a stronger Fire; and 'tis a work of about four months. Thus this author.

Why would he say then for the red use the calx of gold? Same with Abraham the jews book, part 3, you can make the red or white tincture just by using gold or silver metal for the sulphur principle and the realgar sublimate is the dry water. He doesnt say you need all the silver metals for the mercury. These works are completely different i think, abrahams from guasco..abraham goes as far in multiplication to the liquid stone.

I'm just asking, this is no argument..just questions.



Both orpiment and realgar are arsenical sulfides however the adepts along with the Chinese as I state above both considered orpiment to be lunar and realgar to be solar and just as Fulcanelli states its the same material at different states of evolution both in material form as well as incorpreal spirit. Here the Chinese said the same:
Realgar occurs in the same mountains as orpiment, and is formed by the transformation of orpiment. (This latter) great medicine of heaven and earth (i.e., of the natural order) is called 'doe yellow' (tzhu huang). When eight thousand years have passed, it transforms into realgar, the variant name of which is 'imperial male seminal essence (ti nan ching). After another thousand years have passed it transforms into yellow gold, with the variant name 'Victuals of the Perfected (or Realized) Immortals’ (chen jen fan)...


yea, i have read this before, Taoist alchemy, orpiment is female, realgar is male.

Pleroma
03-17-2012, 03:27 PM
So we can see how Guasco's protocol on sulfur holds true to Fulcanelli's entire discourse, because the inital operation involves fermenting in a water bath, realgar, Koh, iron nitrate and copper nitrate...the end result is the blood of christ that he so often refers to when speaking of this mineral and the blow with the lance made by the roman to ensure Christ was dead, the blood being caught by Joseph of Arimethia in the chalice called "Holy Graal"...remember again the anagram re-algar...algar....graal. But it holds true as well in the fight with the dragon(arsenical sulfur) and the knight armed with lance and shield. And so there can be no arguement here I provide thequote where Fulcanelli outright calls the dragon arsenical sulfur:

So we would add in powder form realgar, koh, iron and copper nitrate into a sealed flask and digest for 40 days?

Pleroma
03-18-2012, 02:28 AM
Hence if spirit of realgar is the red lion then spirit of orpiment is the green lion. To make the green red he needs the "RE" which Guasco says comes from the sun this affirms the iconic symbol of green lion devouring sun:

doesnt realgar turn into orpiment?

would this be something like what your talking about,

from the book of abraham. page 27


Make our Old One (old one is realgar?) a Heavenly Green SALT( which decays into orpiment, green lion.). N. B. And from such a
Phythonis, a living water which burns not; place Ophiris SOL in
the solivent and putrefy in order that it becomes black, white
and red. With this you can vanquish the World.

rogerc
03-18-2012, 08:28 AM
the regimen of mecury is for the white stone only?




No, it is to obtain the philosophical mercury of lunar metals, which is needed if we use dead gold the make the stone at all, but for living gold we need it only for multiplication.


Our two vases appear well defined, clearly marked and in absolute agreement with the
precepts of hermetic theory. One is the vase o nature made of the same red clay God used
to form the body of Adam with. The other is the case of the art, whose entire material is
composed of pure, clear, red, incombustible, fixed, and diaphanous gold, of an
incomparable brightness. And these are our two vessels which truly represent only two
distinct bodies containing the metallic spirits, the only agents we need.

The first of these ways which uses the vase of the art is time-consuming, painstaking,
thankless, accessible to wealthy people, but is in a place of great honor in spite of the
expenditures it entails, because it is the one which authors preferably describe. It s used
as a support for their reasoning as well as for the theoretical development of the Work,
requires an uninterrupted labor of twelve to eighteen months, and starts with natural gold
prepared and dissolved in the philosophical mercury which is then cooked in a glass
matrass. This is the honorable vase reserved for noble use of these precious substances
which are the exalted gold and mercury of the sages.
The second way demands, from beginning to end, only the help of a coarse clay
abundantly available, of such a low cost that in our time ten francs are sufficient to
acquire a quantity more than enough for our needs. It is the clay and the way of the poor,
of the simple and the modest, of those whom nature fills with wonder even by her most
humble manifestations. Extremely easy, it only requires the presence of the artist, for the
mysterious labor perfects itself by itself and is achieved in seven to nine days at the most.
This way, unknown to the majority of practicing alchemists, is elaborated from start to
finish in one crucible made of fireproof clay. It is the way that the great masters called
woman’s work and child’s play; it is to it that they apply the old hermetic axiom: una res,
una via, una dispositione. One matter, one vessel, one furnace


"The stone of the philosophers
is born from the destruction of two bodies". We add that the philosophers’ stone --- or
our mercury, its next matter --- is also born from the fight, the mortification, and the ruin
of two opposite natures. Thus in the essential operations of the art we always have two
principles producing a third one and the generation depends upon a preliminary
decomposition of its agents. Furthermore, philosophical mercury itself, sole substance of
the Magistery can never yield anything unless it dies, ferments, and putrefies at the end of
the first stage of the Work. Finally, whether it is a matter of obtaining the sulphur, the
Elixir, or the Medicine, we cannot transform one or the other, whether in power or
quantity as long as we have not made them resume their mercurial state, next to the
original rebis and as such directed toward corruption. For there is a fundamental law in
hermetics expressed by the old adage: Corruptio unius est generatio alterius (2).~Dwellings




Why would he say then for the red use the calx of gold? Same with Abraham the jews book, part 3, you can make the red or white tincture just by using gold or silver metal for the sulphur principle and the realgar sublimate is the dry water. He doesnt say you need all the silver metals for the mercury. These works are completely different i think, abrahams from guasco..abraham goes as far in multiplication to the liquid stone.



Here,..... he is talking about the red stone or the white, like I said above if you use dead metals they only serve as a ferment for the philosophical mercury, which binds to the lunar sulfur in silver or solar sulfur in gold, thats why they said it was the water that nothing in the art could be done without, but they were speaking by way of the "first vase" in such terms as Fulcanelli describes. Wherein common mercury or astral spirit is first attained and then added to a second matter which extracts its principle spirit which then becomes philosophic mercury, this then would not necessary be the "philosophic mercury" of white metals but instead a solvent/alkahest bearing SM, although it would behave the same towards the sulfur principle, since it was brought about under hermetic laws over which rules the moon.

pierre
03-18-2012, 07:43 PM
I am not sure which experiment you are planning to start. The martian regulus of antimony? Are you sure that Fulcanelli speaks about it in his works?

Hi everyone, antimony is not the prima matter of Fulcanelli, but without antimony, you can not start their work ...

Illen A. Cluf
03-18-2012, 08:28 PM
Hi everyone, antimony is not the prima matter of Fulcanelli, but without antimony, you can not start their work ...

As an assumption, I would agree with the first part. As for the second part, you seem to be stating this with utmost conviction. What makes you so sure?

Thanks,
Illen

pierre
03-18-2012, 09:38 PM
As an assumption, I would agree with the first part. As for the second part, you seem to be stating this with utmost conviction. What makes you so sure?

Thanks,
Illen

... because I have seen the bright star that guided the Magi to Bethlehem and I know what it is capable of. And the black dragon guards the entrance of the cave ... (you better take a strong spear and good fire, my friend) But in the end you should look to Christ, rather than the dragon.
Humbly I tell you, my friend, the secret of all this path is in the correct preparation of the living salts, in the beginning...

Illen A. Cluf
03-18-2012, 11:56 PM
... because I have seen the bright star that guided the Magi to Bethlehem and I know what it is capable of. And the black dragon guards the entrance of the cave ... (you better take a strong spear and good fire, my friend) But in the end you should look to Christ, rather than the dragon.
Humbly I tell you, my friend, the secret of all this path is in the correct preparation of the living salts, in the beginning...

Uh... this sounds too much like an excerpt from one of the many ambiguous treatises, so it says nothing new. Can you translate and provide some more meaningful insight?

Thanks,
Illen

Androgynus
03-19-2012, 01:22 AM
In this way, the goal is to prepare philosophical sulphur with red metals and philosophical mercury with white metals.
Two French authors spoke much about it. They are Roger Guasco and Jean-Pascal Percheron.

The relevant work of Roger Guasco on the 'Realgar Path' ('The Dew Burns The Salt') can be found HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fyaka-asso.org%2Fyaka%2Frosee%2Fp_2.php) (Google translated into English).

Some of Roger Guasco's other Works can be also found HERE (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fyaka-asso.org%2Fyaka%2Fsoleil%2Fls_intro.php&act=url) and HERE (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://yaka-asso.org/yaka/alchimie/p_6.php&usg=ALkJrhjvtvNFzIfWyF6UQRKm6kSYMc5ywA), also Google translated into English.

pierre
03-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Uh... this sounds too much like an excerpt from one of the many ambiguous treatises, so it says nothing new. Can you translate and provide some more meaningful insight?

Thanks,
Illen

Ok, I can only say that antimony plays the role of mercury and use it to obtain an active sulfur from the subject of Fulcanelli. But to have antimony in the right way to achieve the above, you need 2 salts specially prepared. (The diamond fallen from the brow of Lucifer) Both are potassium in different ways. Without the proper preparation of these salts, even if you use the right materials, you did not come at the end of the work, for such sales in the third work are that capture the universal spirit within them, and form the philosopher's stone. But if these salts are not prepared properly, will not react as they should and not capture the Spiritus Mundi, because they are dead salts, alchemically speaking.
In short ... Potassium, antimony ... and ... Fulcanelli's subject...
You only need a short way to discover the rest, Illen, my friend...

garvolt2002
03-19-2012, 09:06 PM
I see a new book advertised in French about Antimony and a short method using the Dry Way. L'Or des Sages - par Richard Touitou
Anyone have any information on this book or the method used?

alfr
03-19-2012, 09:26 PM
I see a new book advertised in French about Antimony and a short method using the Dry Way. L'Or des Sages - par Richard Touitou
Anyone have any information on this book or the method used?

Hi garvolt2002 and every body

Here there are the reference of this book L'Or des Sages - par Richard Touitou.Patrick Lebar and this are public by http://heliosadam.alchimie.free.fr/alchimie/ouvrages.php

and maybe the very interesting indication on the him """antimony?""? dry way and the him special living salts give by pierre has something to do with this publication?

my best regards alfr

L'Or des Sages - par Richard Touitou.
Même si c'est avec un savoureux plaisir mal contenu et non dissimulé, que nous tenons à présenter ostensiblement l'ouvrage remarquable de notre Grand Ami Richard Touitou, nous nous garderons bien de déroger ici, aux règles de la bienséance intellectuelle qui nous dictent d'admettre, toute honte bue, que la Voie Brêve nous est par trop étrangère pour vouloir nous mêmes en faire en l'éloge.
D'ailleurs cette entreprise serait de notre part bien désuète au regard du travail admirablement réalisé par l'auteur de l'Or des Sages qui nous invite par là, à un voyage initiatique à travers le temps et l'histoire de l'Alchimie, pour partager avec lui, comme il le souhaite, les connaissances certaines dont il dispose et découvrir ainsi, tout ce qui peut se rapporter à la pratique de la Voie Sèche.
Ce livre n'est pas seulement un canevas pour les hardis prétendants désireux de relever le défi de l'Art Brévis, c'est aussi un exposé de belle consistance, un condensé de ce qui se fait de mieux dans la littérature spécialisée en ce domaine.
La lecture de chaque page, loin du verbiage assommant, rébarbatif et torturant auxquels nous ont accoutumés les commentateurs modernes sans talents que dénonçait jadis Eugène Canseliet, nous charme, nous enivre et nous emporte à travers les méandres d'un discours docte, savant et cependant très abordable, accessible et sobre, révélateur de la Science consommée de l'auteur.
Avec cette probité que nous lui connaissons, l'auteur avoue humblement n'avoir pas encore atteint le terme de l'épreuve. Notre scepticisme face à cette confession pudique et ultime n'aura d'égale que notre respect et notre admiration pour un homme de bien, qui donne sans compter, sans attendre le moindre retour en échange et que nous reconnaissons ici comme l'un de nos Frères et de nos Mâitres en l'Art d'Alchimie de la Voie Brêve.

Patrick Lebar
Président de l'association Hélios-Adam.

Richard Touitou, ingénieur en Génie Chimique, a durant quarante ans consacré tous ses loisirs à l’étude de l’Antique Philosophie, le fondement de toutes les sciences modernes : l’Alchimie.
Son premier ouvrage, l’Or des Sages est un véritable traité moderne d’alchimie dans lequel il rétablit des vérités historiques. Il développe ensuite très simplement le processus secret de la voie sèche

garvolt2002
03-19-2012, 09:29 PM
Interesting preface but can anyone say anything about what is the process? Pierre I presume you are French any light you can shed on this document?

pierre
03-19-2012, 10:35 PM
Interesting preface but can anyone say anything about what is the process? Pierre I presume you are French any light you can shed on this document?

Non, je n'ai pas lu ce document...

rogerc
03-20-2012, 01:11 AM
Funny it is how even to this day seekers in our art continue to fall into this trap:

The most vested about traditional cabala, among ourselves, have probably been struck by
the relation existing between the way, the path drawn by the hieroglyph which borrows
the shape of the number 4, and the mineral antimony or stibium, clearly signified by this
topographic word. The Greeks called native antimony oxysulphide: [*233-1] (stimmi), or
[*233-2] (stibia) means the path, the way which the investigator ([*233-3] --- stibeus) or
pilgrim travels on during his voyage; it is the path he tramples underfoot ([*233-4] ---
steibo). These considerations, based upon an exact correspondence of words have not
escaped the old masters or modern philosophers, who, backing them up with their
authority, have contributed to this spread of unfortunate error, that common antimony
was the mysterious subject of the art. Unfortunate misunderstanding, invincible obstacle
against which hundreds of seekers have run. From Artephius, who begins his treatise (26)
with these words: "Antimony comes from parts of Saturn", all the way to Philalethes,
who entitles on of his works: Experiments on the Preparation of Philosophical Mercury
through the Stellated and Silvery Martial Regulus of Antimony, not forgetting Basil
Valentine’s work: The Triumphal Chariot of Antimony, and Batsdorff’s assertion
dangerous because of his hypocritical positivism: the number of those who have let
themselves be caught in this crude trap is simply prodigious. The Middle Ages saw
puffers and archemists volatilize, without any results, tons of mercury amalgamated with
stibiated gold.~ Dwellings


How can anyone call themselves a follower(stibeus) of the path(stibia) of Fulcanelli if they don't know enough to know that the path of stibia (antimony-which really means a living salt that is not alone, anti-mony as infered to a divine and celestial presence) is the path of the pilgrim traveler travelling the road to Compostella who takes for his guide the pole star, thus he is practiced in the art that is the Celestial Agriculture, he takes for his matter gypsum, to attract the secret solvent, as in the letter from Perrard to Gerbant who followed the path of Cyliani and with the allusion to the three layers of salt in his book, we get all the other great works: Real and True Road of Hermes Trimegestus, Recreations Hermetiques, Hermes Unveiled, etc, etc,. What I see is that people just don't understand that Fulcanelli jumbles paths and regimiens, the mineral that he suggest that is good to use or get started in the regimien of philosophic mercury, whose entire operativity the sages used for the code word "antimony" is not the same that is used for regimien of philosophic sulfur(arsenical sulfide).


Masonic emblems, surrounded by a halo, in the center of a triangle (28). This symbol
offers the same meaning as the letter G, seventh of the alphabet, initial of the common
name of the Subject of the sages, represented in the middle of a radiating star [N.B. ---
gold, gur, galena, graphite, gabbro, granite, gypsum, gneiss, garnet]. This matter is
Artephius’ Saturnine Antimony, Tollius’ regulus of antimony, and the true and only
stibium of Michael Maier and all the Adepts. As for mineral stibnite, it possesses none of
the required qualities, and whatever the manner in which we want to treat it, neither the
secret solvent nor the philosophical mercury will ever be obtained from it. If Basil
Valentine gives philosophical mercury the nickname of pilgrim or traveler ([*235-1] ---
stibeus) (29), because it must, says he, go through six celestial cities before fixing its
residence in the seventh; if Philalethes affirms it is our only path ([*235-2] --- stibia), this
is not sufficient to invoke that these masters claimed to designate common antimony as
the regenerator of philosophical mercury. This substance is too far from perfection, from
purity, and the acquired spirituality of the humid root or metallic seed --- which one
could anyway not find on earth --- to be genuinely useful to us. The antimony of the
sages, raw matter directly extracted from the mine, "is not properly mineral, and even
less metallic as Philalethes (30) teaches us; but without partaking of these two substances
it is something between one and the other. It is not corporeal however, because it is
entirely volatile; it is not spirit because it liquefies like metal in fire. It is therefore a
chaos which stands in stead of mother to all metals". It is the metallic and mineral flower
([*235-3] --- anthemon), the first rose, black in truth, which has remained down here as a
part of the elementary chaos. From it, from this flower of flowers (flos florum) we first
draw our frost ([*235-4] --- stibe) which is the spirit moving on the surface of the waters
and the white ornament of the angels; reduced to this bright whiteness, it is the mirror of
the art, the torch ([*235-5] --- stilbe), the lamp or lantern (31), the brightness of stars and
splendor of the sun (splendor solis); still, united to philosophical gold, it becomes the
metallic planet Mercury ([*235-6] --- stilbonaster), the nest of the bird ([*235-7] ---
stibas), our Phoenix and its small stone ([*235-8] --- stia); finally it is the root, subject, or
pivot (Latin, stipes, stirps) of the Great Work and not common antimony. Know then,
brothers, so as to no longer err, that our term of antimony, derived from the Greek [*235-
9] --- antemon, designates through a pun familiar to philosophers, the ane-Timon (32), the
guide which in the Bible leads the Jews to the Fountain. It is the mythical Aliboron,
[*236-1], horse of the sun.~Dwellings- Fulcanelli

Remember the Universal Process (being a Treatise on Dew) from PotpouriI:

In the Name of God, take some of the whitest sea salt which the ships
bring from the Island of St. Huber in Spain. Some puffers thought again here the mineral stibnite when the author clearly states that this is a universal process and a treatise on dew, it is obvious then that although St. Huber is a fictional island, that he means to denote the same code word for path, "stibia", from the stars, in otherwords this salt which comes from the philosophers sea should come by way of the stars, so we remain in the domain of flos coeili, astral spirit....according to Cyliani:

Also do not forget that the mysterious solution of the matter or the
magical marriage between Venus and Mars takes place in the temple of
which I spoke to you previously on a fine night with a calm cloudless
sky, the sun being in the sign of Gemini, the moon being in its first
quarter at its full with the help of the magnet which attracts the
Astral Spirit from the heavens. It is seven times rectified to the
point that it can calcine gold

Astral spirit that is seven times rectified, that it is passes through seven eagles just like Fulcanelli says:
because it must, says he, go through six celestial cities before fixing its
residence in the seventh


......But we've been through all this before.

True Puffer
03-20-2012, 04:49 AM
Some puffers thought again here the mineral stibnite when the author clearly states that this is a universal process and a treatise on dew, it is obvious then that although St. Huber is a fictional island, that he means to denote the same code word for path, "stibia".

St.Huber is not a fictional place but is a real place. It was formerly called in English St Ubes and in French St Yves and it was known for the production of the best sea salt in Europe. Today it is called Setubal.
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SCY_SHA/SETUBAL_formerly_called_in_Engl.html

Androgynus
03-20-2012, 05:11 AM
TP, you have a special gift of finding stuff nobody else can :) Hat off!

Now that we finally know that the process deals indeed with Sea Salt and Dew (Nitre?), we can read Guasco's instructions for the Fusible ('Philosophical') Salt with more clarity and confidence.

This provides a better perspective on both Guasco's 'Realgar Path' (the Salt Part) and the 'Actum Leyden' path, allowing us to draw our own conclusions, study the parallels/principles involved and experiment according to our intuition.

Super cool! Maybe the Thread on Fixing Sea Salt (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?656-fixation-of-sea-salt-towards-the-P-stone) will get renewed attention now, as well as maybe the old Philowar (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?590-Heated-Debate-Over-the-Dew-Salt-Method-%28philowar%29) :)

rogerc
03-20-2012, 05:19 AM
St.Huber is not a fictional place but is a real place. It was formerly called in English St Ubes and in French St Yves and it was known for the production of the best sea salt in Europe. Today it is called Setubal.
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SCY_SHA/SETUBAL_formerly_called_in_Engl.html

I don't doubt the veracity....but it doesn't take away from the fact, you yourself read this document and pulled from it stibnite, you followed lead from others: Antimony and Nitre Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1038-Antimony-and-nitre)

I will be very carefull with the "sea salt+dew" theory and let me explain you why.
I am in possesion of the original "Leyden" manuscript that comes directly from the private collection of Dr. Sigismond Backstrom in his own writing!
Dr. Backstrom is famous for his "notes" in his book's and manuscripts where he openly reveals the true ingredient's of the Magnum Opus .Most people know this recipe from the Mainly P. Hall's book "Secret teaching's of all ages" but the recipe that is there is incomplete!

So for the first time ever here is the original manuscript!


As you can see in the text there are two important marginal notes on the second page of the document. The first uses symbols and translates as "This salt is antimony" and the second "This dew is Nitre".

French Alchemist Patrick Riviere explains in his book what this notes mean(thank's to the user of this forum "Kekring" that provided me this information):


"If we remember that the sea salt, which referred the author of the Testament(Leyden) came from "St. Uby" or "St.Uber"(Imaginary place) for the reference hermeticism worthy of the name is obvious, the ... Stibnite!

But how then develop the concepts of "sea salt" and "antimony sulfide", otherwise the notion of antimony chloride or, more exactly, antimony butter ...
Indeed, it apparently fat such as butter, is obtained by distillation from the mixture of hydrochloric acid and regulates antimony or better here, stibnite, the precious red contenente unstable and volatile, however indispensable to our design philosophy.

Also, if you moisturize a few drops of water, butter of antimony, is formed immediately a white substance called "powder of Algaroth". This leaves only apprehend by what artifice it can acquire and fix the volatile red long-sought ... We submit this issue to the sagacity of the operator warned that sooner or later, if it is sufficiently determined and inspired by the unmistakable smell response.

Finally, it is clear, whether the subject identified or very specific vitryol used by Friedrich von Meyer, previously considered - the moment that salt s'marin intervenes - the verse (53e) of Hortulus Sacer strictly apply to these channels alchemically "authentic, especially if they involve the Rose of May fertilizing:

"Medicine is not vulgar and triple
The Green gray sages gives the first;
Venus gives the pleasant the second;
The third born of the sky and the sea
The first effect has all its lights;
however, it needs another fire and yet another,
by which it is open.
The second, like a magnet attracts the virtues of heaven;
For the rest the only coction enough.
The third joint forces of heaven and earth
Basting sea salt with the dew of heaven. "

So you see the vulgar "sea salt" is not the true ingredient of the Leyden process but the "Butter of Antimony".



True Puffer

Androgynus
03-20-2012, 05:37 AM
I don't doubt the veracity....but it doesn't take away from the fact, you yourself read this document and pulled from it stibnite, you followed lead from others: Antimony and Nitre Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1038-Antimony-and-nitre)

Many of us (present company included) have pulled different things from different places at different times...

There is no fault in this. Quite the opposite - I find it commendable. (IMO, of course)

We are all subject to Change (and Growth), PLUS a chance for a wider sense of understanding.

rogerc
03-20-2012, 06:01 AM
Heres more:


It must be agreed that to be symbolized under such a deformed and monstrous
appearance --- dragon, serpent, vampire, devil, Tarasqu. Etc. --- this unfortunate subject
must have fallen into disgrace with Nature. In truth, its appearance has nothing seductive
about it. Black, scaly, often covered with red spots or a yellow, crumbly and dull coating,
having a strong and nauseous odor which the philosophers define as toxicum et venenum,
it stains fingers when it is touched and seems to assemble within itself all that which can
displease. Yet it is, this primitive subject of the sages, vile and despised by the ignorant
ones, which is the only one, the sole dispense of the celestial water, our first mercury, and
the great Alkahest~Dwellings-Fulcanelli

Realgar on galena:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRagUw5VozGta_m_7NQlfudPbL8tW8sT OkciucW0LnnXJVQekH0MQ

Realgar is decomposed by sunlight to form the "yellow, crumbly and dull coating " known as para-realgar


Chinese Alchemy:

There were parallel developments in the eastern world. The Chinese began to
practice herbal medicine around 2800 BCE. This experience was eventually
gathered into Shen Nong’s Materia Medica (200 BCE) around the time of the
unification of the nation and the beginning of the Han dynasty.10,11 Shen, who
became known as the Divine Farmer, was familiar with the two arsenic sulfides,
and also arsenolite the mineral form of the oxide. Like the Greeks, the Chinese
thought of matter in terms of combinations of the five elements water, fire,
wood, metal and earth. These five are associated with the five planets visible to
the naked eye; and these in turn are associated with five minerals. Thus, we
have in one group the element water, the planet Mercury, and the mineral
magnetite (Fe3O4). In other groups we have fire, Mars and cinnabar (HgS);
wood, Jupiter and malachite (Cu2CO3(OH)2); metal, Venus and arsenolite
(As2O3); and earth, Saturn and realgar (As4S4). It is curious that two arsenic
minerals, one of them very toxic, were selected for this honour. It is also curious
that according to the book Huai Nan Tzu (ca. 125 BCE) a mineral elixir made
from the ‘‘essences of the five planets’’ was claimed to give a man perpetual life,
exempt from death forever.12 There is the possibility that perpetual life was
achieved when the frequent user entered the afterlife. The corpses were said to
become stiff and metallic-looking and did not decay. The connection between
arsenic and the preservation of corpses is taken up later (Section 2.8).
The Chinese called realgar ‘‘male yellow’’ and, despite its name, the best
quality was said to be the colour of cockscomb (a livid orange-red). As early
as 222 BCE, realgar was recommended for use against skin diseases such as
carbuncles, abscesses and tuberculosis, but it also had magical properties. It
was purported to kill ghosts and cure people possessed by demons. It was
said to regenerate lost teeth. When worn as an amulet, Realgar warded off
dangerous animals and venomous snakes, because snakes were said to have
an aversion to the mineral and this belief was the basis for many myths.13,14
In one of these, a monk suspects that the wife of a villager is really a white
snake because of the marks on the husband’s face. The monk persuades the
husband to give realgar wine to his wife, who then falls ill. She goes to bed,
covering herself with a blanket and asks the husband to leave her alone. The
husband is curious, so he lifts the blanket to reveal a snake. A long story
follows with an ambiguous ending suggesting that the husband should have
left things as they were.
Drinking realgar wine was once an important part of the Chinese dragon
boat festival that, in addition to boat racing, involves eating rice dumplings
wrapped in bamboo leaves. (Children were not expected to drink the wine: they
got a dab of red powder on their foreheads.) The benefits of the drink: ‘‘all
illnesses are banished; scars disappear; grey hair turns black; lost teeth are
regenerated; after a thousand days fairies will come to serve you.’’13 This
custom was based on the following legend that dates back from about 300
BCE: Through no fault of his own a respected government official named Chu
Yun fell out of favour with the Emperor. In despair, he committed suicide by
jumping into the Mi Lo River on the fifth day of the fifth month of the lunar
calendar. His grieving friends rowed a boat out on the river making a lot of
noise to scare any river creatures away from the body. Others threw rice
dumplings into the river in the hope that river creatures would eat only the
dumplings. An old doctor poured a bottle of realgar wine into the river to ward
off river creatures. Moments later a dead dragon floated to the surface.15


Of course just like the texts on the completed stone say...first your hair and nails will turn black and fall out as well as your teeth after which they will grow back young and youthful. So here we have another means of indication of from what substance the stone was derived, because although its poisonous nature is corrected, that is if we have performed the operations well, however its spirit of python/mercury is still with it, it attacks the di-sulphide bridges in the keratin cells of the hair and nails causing them to weaken and deteriorate and since keratin is what attaches hair at the folicule and nails at the cuticle, they fall out.



Indian Alchemy

Manahsila

Realgar which is devoid of foriegn materials, heavy shining and red like lotus is acceptable.

Purification

The powdered realgar is kept in lime water for three days and thus it is purified......

rogerc
03-20-2012, 06:15 AM
Many of us (present company included) have pulled different things from different places at different times...

There is no fault in this. Quite the opposite - I find it commendable. (IMO, of course)

We are all subject to Change (and Growth), PLUS a chance for a wider sense of understanding.

No problem, I understand, this includes all of us, no one was born a hermetic savant, and when I first brought up the subject I was only citing it as an example of how once again...those caught on the trap of antimony continue to see it even where it isn't...I wasn't going to name names, but hey since the opportunity came up......I took it. I take cheap shots and sucker punches from certain parties here all the time......and I just roll with them...nothing personal. Not everything I come up with is astounding but geez you'd think I'd get some thanks from time to time. If it wasn't for the few good friends I have on this forum, I would have shun this site from my sight and it could have turned to a pillar of salt for all I cared, but as long as there was one good man, one honest seeker here, I couldn't turn my back on it. ;)

solomon levi
03-20-2012, 09:11 AM
RogerC said:
"since I know you are playing games with me,"

Whatever. This is boring.
I'll do my work; you do yours.

True Puffer
03-20-2012, 05:39 PM
I don't doubt the veracity....but it doesn't take away from the fact, you yourself read this document and pulled from it stibnite, you followed lead from others: Antimony and Nitre Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1038-Antimony-and-nitre)

Yes, i was deceived by Patrick Riviere, the only pupil of Canseliet. I even asked Dev to remove my posts from this thread but he refused!

Everytime i rely on French Authors i get cheated in the end: Patrick Riviere, Roger Caro, Armand Barbault and the Grand master of deception Fulcanelli... I started to despise French Authors.

garvolt2002
03-20-2012, 08:05 PM
Yes, i was deceived by Patrick Riviere, the only pupil of Canseliet. I even asked Dev to remove my posts from this thread but he refused!

Everytime i rely on French Authors i get cheated in the end: Patrick Riviere, Roger Caro, Armand Barbault and the Grand master of deception Fulcanelli... I started to despise French Authors.

You forgot Roger Guesco.

True Puffer
03-20-2012, 08:25 PM
I haven't studied him yet but yes, i developed aversion towards French scene.

rogerc
03-20-2012, 08:46 PM
Yes, i was deceived by Patrick Riviere, the only pupil of Canseliet. I even asked Dev to remove my posts from this thread but he refused!

Everytime i rely on French Authors i get cheated in the end: Patrick Riviere, Roger Caro, Armand Barbault and the Grand master of deception Fulcanelli... I started to despise French Authors.

Maybe the whole problem lies with the lineages begun with revival of alchemy in europe in the 16-1700's. Personally I think the Chinese and Indian systems which seem to be far older are way more open, since all the operativity isn't hid in allegories and mythology.....after all, the philosophic stone was known as the stone of the orient.

True Puffer
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
Maybe the whole problem lies with the lineages begun with revival of alchemy in europe in the 16-1700's. Personally I think the Chinese and Indian systems which seem to be far older are way more open, since all the operativity isn't hid in allegories and mythology.....after all, the philosophic stone was known as the stone of the orient.

I am of the same opinion.

Usually the cradle of Alchemy was believed to be Egypt and India and China are completely ignored! India is the only country in the world were Alchemical tradition never died out but they have their secret traditions too. The sect that caught my attention in relation to Alchemy is the Saivaite sect and their concept of Jivanmukta. Their Adepts are called Saints by them examples like Dhunduka Natha, Gopala Krsna Bhatta and not to forget the Budhist's Hermes Nagarjuna.

jivanmukta: "Liberated soul." One who has attained nirvikalpa samadhi -- the realization of the Self, Parasiva -- and is liberated from rebirth while living in a human body. (Contrasted with videhamukta, one liberated at the point of death.)This attainment is the culmination of lifetimes of intense striving, sadhana and tapas, requiring total renunciation, sannyasa (death to the external world, denoted in the conducting of one's own funeral rites),in the current incarnation.While completing life in the physical body, the jivanmukta enjoys the ability to re-enter nirvikalpa samadhi again and again. See: jivanmukti, jnana, kaivalya, moksha, Self Realization, Sivasayujya, videhamukti.

jivanmukti: "Liberation while living." The state of the jivanmukta. Contrasted with videhamukti, liberation at the point of death. See: death, jivanmukta, moksha, reincarnation, videhamukti.

This liberation is achieved through consuming alchemical prepared mercury. As a curiosity i have added another interesting term...

jnana: "Knowledge; wisdom." (Tamil: jnanam) The matured state of the soul. It is the wisdom that comes as an aftermath of the kundalini breaking through the door of Brahmaninto the realization of Parasiva, Absolute Reality. The repeated samadhis of Parasiva ever deepen this flow of divine knowing which establishes the knower in an extraordinary point of reference, totally different from those who have not attained this enlightenment. Jnana is sometimes misunderstood as book knowledge, as a maturity or awakening that comes from simply understanding a complex philosophical system or systems. Those who define jnana in this way deny that the path is a progression of charya-kriya-yoga-jnana or of karma-bhakti-raja-jnana. Rather, they say that one can choose one's own path, and that each leads to the ultimate goal. See: God Realization, door of Brahman, Self Realization, samadhi.

jnani: "Sage." One who possesses jnana. See: jivanmukta, jnana.

garvolt2002
03-21-2012, 12:33 AM
Lets go back to the source as suggested by TF such as documents from China, India, Egypt, Arabic. Sadly who will translate for us?
Forget about these modern writers. In a discussion once with Adam McLean he said many of the book on alchemy published during the 16th and 17th centuary were written by charlatens just to make money and had no value whatsoever.
Basically leading us all up the garden path.

rogerc
03-21-2012, 04:21 AM
A tract from an old chinese alchemy book.....
A secret from Chinese alchemy
Take one pound of mercury, and put it in a crucible of the Six-and-One. Then take one pound of Imperial Man (realgar), pound it until it becomes powder-like, and cover the mercury with it. Then take one pound of Leftovers of the Food of Yu (hematite), pound it until it becomes powder-like, and cover the Imperial Man with it. Close the crucible with another crucible of the Six-and-One, seal the joints luting them with the Mud of the Six-and-One, and let it dry.


Place the crucible over a fire of horse manure or chaff for nine days and nine nights. Extinguish the fire, and place the crucible over a fire of charcoal for nine days and nine nights. Extinguish the fire, let the crucible cool for one day and open it. The Medicine will have entirely sublimated, and will adhere to the upper crucible. It will be similar to frost and snow. Brushing with a feather, collect it, and add to it equal quantities of Grease of Dragons, and of Celestial Male (aconite) from Mount Shaoshi.

After ingesting a speck of this elixir for thirty days, a chick will grow wings and become a flying immortal. The ten thousand gods will become your attendants and offer protection, and the Jade Women will be at your service. The divine immortals will welcome you, and you will rise to heaven. The hundred demons, the Gods of Soil and Grain (Sheji), the Count of the Wind (Fengbo), and the Master of Rain (Yushi) will welcome you, and you will have them at your service. For information contact us. These are golden elixirs of china. Chinese spiritual masters used these secretc formula long long ago. Alchemy begun in India much before any civilization can dare to think



Aconite

Aconitine is a deadly alkaloid produced by Aconitum which readily causes respiratory paralysis. It is sometimes known as the queen of poisons; the king being arsenic.


[edit]Detoxification
Both Chinese medicine and Ayurveda have methods of processing aconite to reduce its toxicity. In Chinese medicine, the traditional pao zhi or preparation of aconite is to steam it with ginger in a fairly elaborate procedure. Due to the variable levels of toxicity in any given sample of the dried herb, there are still issues with using it. Most but not all cases of aconite toxicity in Taiwan were due to the consumption of unprocessed aconite.[20][21]
According to an article by the Indian scientists Thorat and Dahanukar, "Crude aconite is an extremely lethal substance. However, the science of Ayurveda looks upon aconite as a therapeutic entity. Crude aconite is always processed i.e. it undergoes 'samskaras' before being utilized in the Ayurvedic formulations. This study was undertaken in mice, to ascertain whether 'processed' aconite is less toxic as compared to the crude or unprocessed one. It was seen that crude aconite was significantly toxic to mice (100% mortality at a dose of 2.6*mg/mouse) whereas the fully processed aconite was absolutely non-toxic (no mortality at a dose even 8 times as high as that of crude aconite). Further, all the steps in the processing were essential for complete detoxification" [22]




Aconitum features in literature in a number of instances:
In Greek mythology, Medea attempted to poison Theseus with a cup of wine poisoned with wolfsbane. However Aegeus, his father, interceded when he discerned his identity.[23]
In the book Airman by Eoin Colfer, Marshall Hugo Bonvilain invites Conor's family to his tower and poisons the wine with wolfsbane which they don't drink.
Shakespeare, in Henry IV Part II Act 4 Scene 4 refers to aconite, alongside rash gunpowder, working as strongly as the "venom of suggestion" to break up close relationships (cf Iago's role in Othello).
John Keats, in his Ode on Melancholy, writes:
No, no, go not to Lethe, neither twist Wolf's bane, tight-rooted, for its poisonous wine Nor suffer thy pale forehead to be kissed By nightshade, ruby grape of Proserpine…
Aconitum plays a major role in the story "The Cardinal Napellus" by Gustav Meyrink. It is identified with religious beliefs and connected to the idea of fate.

Interesting isn't that the king and queen of poisons could join together to make an elixir of immortality.... of course they both go through 'samskaras' before they can be ingested.


Here is the chinese Scripture of the Nine Elixirs (http://books.google.com/books?id=nIanQVq4jY8C&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=celestial+male+aconite&source=bl&ots=sqHbQrlD92&sig=G9XYMiALUYyO3b4oDeM5aJeCKro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gVNpT8ffHZDAgQfRsp21CQ&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=celestial%20male%20aconite&f=false)

Illen A. Cluf
03-22-2012, 10:40 AM
Ok, I can only say that antimony plays the role of mercury and use it to obtain an active sulfur from the subject of Fulcanelli. But to have antimony in the right way to achieve the above, you need 2 salts specially prepared. (The diamond fallen from the brow of Lucifer) Both are potassium in different ways. Without the proper preparation of these salts, even if you use the right materials, you did not come at the end of the work, for such sales in the third work are that capture the universal spirit within them, and form the philosopher's stone. But if these salts are not prepared properly, will not react as they should and not capture the Spiritus Mundi, because they are dead salts, alchemically speaking.
In short ... Potassium, antimony ... and ... Fulcanelli's subject...
You only need a short way to discover the rest, Illen, my friend...

Thank you my friend! Now we're talking :-)

Illen

Salazius
03-22-2012, 05:18 PM
Maybe the right name of the place is a pun in german since it is the first language of the letter : sea salt from St Uber (oben) (sea salt from above).

Touitou, he is not an adept, he didn't finished his work in antimony path. And seemingly no more working at all in the lab now.

I never looked at his writtings.

Androgynus
03-22-2012, 05:32 PM
About the 'dismissal' of Antimony... I also wouldn't be too quick to discard its special qualities.

With the generous guidance of Salazius, I have seen Antimony display a 'show' of - let's say - 'mythical' proportions, as the Matter itself goes through cycles of initiation together with the Alchemist...

Look up the introduction post of Vega33 as well, in this regard...

Salazius
03-22-2012, 05:49 PM
Yes Androgynus :) Looked with a very simple point of view Antimony can teach a great deal to those who know to decipher it's language.

But does Fulcanelli, speaks of this manner to proceed ... I don't know.

The firsts steps generally admitted in the Antimony Dry Path are ... somewhat very incomplete.
And I'm not a specialist of this Path, but I can say that a lot of people are misleaded by the indications given in all the recipes of the "martial regulus".

The salts used are not used "like this", they are prepared in an *alchemical* way before.
The iron used ... is also used under another form.
Etc ...

Some read Fulcanelli, but they will only find what they want to find. Come on, it's Alchemy ! It's not chemistry ! How do you expect to have, like Canseliet, a rise in weight in the third concoction if you only see the Art as chemical reactions ? And how then to have the music tones coming out of the crucible like he said ? (even with a mica sealon the crucible ...)

So the Magnum Opus begins with the Alchemical stamp and finishes with it ! :) From assasion to final concoction !

rogerc
03-23-2012, 01:52 AM
About the 'dismissal' of Antimony... I also wouldn't be too quick to discard its special qualities.

With the generous guidance of Salazius, I have seen Antimony display a 'show' of - let's say - 'mythical' proportions, as the Matter itself goes through cycles of initiation together with the Alchemist...

Look up the introduction post of Vega33 as well, in this regard...

We could say that about alot of matters, but that's not the point, number one... most importantly to this thread its not one of Fulcanelli's matters that much is clear, he made it crystally clear and on the other hand if we take his advice discarding the association of the symbol that everybody mistakes for antimony metal or stibnite mineral, along with any periodic association the word has with either the metal or mineral and look at the word "antimony" as well as the symbol through the veil of solar cabal (which is the language of the philosophers) and comparatively we take the metal or mineral themselves in any derivitaive way you please then the question then becomes or rather still remains... does it contain anything relative to what we are looking for? What does the word antimony and its symbol really imply, hermetically, we see plainly in the symbol, the circles of earthly salt and heavenly niter united to perpendicularly creating a cross, compounded into a double living salt then is it represented crowned with a cross which reveals its divine power, this salt as Cyliani describes it :
is a magnetic salt that serves as a covering for a strange energy, universal life..... so aside from its action on metals this salt could be tested in other ways before we procede with the actual work to make sure it contains the virtue we require.

As for antimony the metal it is solar in nature that much is clear so how could it contain an overabundance of lunar tincture, i.e. mercurial spirit, even for the use in spagery or the archemy, that is the prime reason of why it should be dismissed for the lunar work in any discipline, and as for the solar work what it contains in virtue is so far from a perfected solar sulfur that it is useless for any other purpose than preparing gold to reach its pure and perfect sulfur.

That being said there are those of the opinion that any matter is good to go to work on, since everything corpreal contains even the tiniest portion of the primordial chaos retained in it, in that case we could take any of the matters the philosophers have advised us against, spittle, urine, hair, coal, lampblack, herbs, antimony, bismuth, verdigris, vitriol, etc..etc...we could calcine, distill, corrode and perform all the other operations the philsophers also advised against and said were only allegories for the operations that the true matter performs itself, but its obvious to those who have adopted hermetic doctrine, the more specifed the material, the less amendable to our operations to draw anything out of it that could be resolved to any product of alchemical significance.

That is why we must search out the materials more proper to our work and leave those that are alien, this is all the ancient ones did, that and follow nature, they didn't have to worry about all these books that presents for us such a difficult labrynith to traverse. They also didn't have academic science and a stupid periodic table to confuse them and tell them what was and what wasn't possible. Yes, they confused one grey looking rock for another and called them all saturn, they didn't know one contained arsenic, one was antimony and another bismuth, another lead, another tin, to them they all looked the same, but they knew that the proper one would have a certain effect on metals and this is the one they choose, they knew that in order to potentially contain a great medicine it must in its raw state be a great poison, since we only rectify its nature or its stain, its impurities, its corruption these are what make it foul and vile, not its power...remember that in the end nothing of great value is got without great risk, the dragon always protects the treasure and the golden apples of hesperides, there is always a brute guarding the golden goose, of course all these stories about knights fighting dragons and fairy tales of magic beans and cats in boots are all allegories of the work, so we must keep this in mind when searching out the right matter. The matters most proper to our work must hold the road to the descriptions on all accounts.

Unfortunately, knowing the matter doesn't resolve the entire quest, before we can enter the temple and face the dragon, we must find the correct operation to dissolve the lock of the temple that encloses him. The key to this lock remains.... as always, that water, the agent solve-nt that nothing in this art can be done without. Remember that inherently nothing down here on earth contains the qualitites of this agent, that is why we must turn to the heavens to draw it down, then and only then will we have the agent in virtue that makes alchemy...alchemy...otherwise even with the right matter in hand we can only perform spagery on it, and we will err upon it just like, Pontanaus above two hundred times until we discover the right "fire".

Androgynus
03-23-2012, 03:38 AM
Hermetically, we see plainly in the symbol, the circles of earthly salt and heavenly niter united to perpendicularly creating a cross,
compounded into a double living salt then is it represented crowned with a cross which reveals its divine power.

I wanted to make a post about this (the things plainly revealed in the Antimony Symbol) - but you beat me to it :)
All I can suggest now is to analyze this symbol deeply, because it plainly reveals a lot (an entire 'recipe', if you wish)
And yes, in this case, it has indeed NOTHING to do with 'Antimony' the matter.
I also find the Symbol to be quite suggestive in relation to R. Guasco's instructions on the Salt Work.


That being said there are those of the opinion that any matter is good to go to work on, since everything corporeal contains even the tiniest portion of the primordial chaos retained in it.

I maintain that many matters are 'good' for the Work, but not in the sense that the 'primordial chaos' is to be extracted from them, but rather to serve as MAGNETS for it, after being properly prepared.
There is a BIG difference here. For this, an understanding of the Qualities of the Ph. Magnet is needed.
Some matters can give limited 'magnetic' results, even without 'philosophical' preparation - but meanwhile, for me, this was only for 'proof of concept' - since I haven't (yet) seen an UN-prepared Magnet go a very long way...
I also haven't (yet) ventured into properly preparing a Magnet all the way to the desired/required state, since my current focus lies elsewhere. But it's surely on my near future to-do list :)

Salazius
03-23-2012, 09:10 AM
I agree with you Roger, but not on the fact that Antimony is Solar ... it's Earthy (as planet, not element), this is also why it is wearing this planet earth symbol. And this is important.

By the way Antimony plays a role as an indirect magnet.

I agree with you Andro, it's a "recipe" all by itself ! :)

rogerc
03-23-2012, 10:19 PM
I agree with you Roger, but not on the fact that Antimony is Solar ... it's Earthy (as planet, not element), this is also why it is wearing this planet earth symbol. And this is important.

By the way Antimony plays a role as an indirect magnet.

I agree with you Andro, it's a "recipe" all by itself ! :)


I've seen books where supposed "cinnabar" has this symbol too.

solomon levi
03-23-2012, 10:51 PM
I've seen books where supposed "cinnabar" has this symbol too.

I think the error is to take the symbol as something specific instead of generic.
To me, the symbol says "any female salt subjected to the four elements."
Many carbonates are earthy female salts, as we see tartar holding this position in the vegetable stone/opus.
A female salt is receptive to our male agent/SM.
Often these are alkaline deliquescent salts.
When these salts are whitened by fire, air, water and earth, (the rotation of the elements) they are ready to marry spirit.

In this sense, a martial regulus can be the union of a properly prepared salt with an actuating spirit,
which actually does make a mercury which dissolves gold as seen by volatilised tartar or ammonium carbonate
joined to spirit of urine or wine. The union of stibnite and iron, on the other hand, has a long way to go
before it will dissolve gold like ice in warm water.

rogerc
03-24-2012, 06:04 AM
I think the error is to take the symbol as something specific instead of generic.
To me, the symbol says "any female salt subjected to the four elements."
Many carbonates are earthy female salts, as we see tartar holding this position in the vegetable stone/opus.
A female salt is receptive to our male agent/SM.
Often these are alkaline deliquescent salts.
When these salts are whitened by fire, air, water and earth, (the rotation of the elements) they are ready to marry spirit.

In this sense, a martial regulus can be the union of a properly prepared salt with an actuating spirit,
which actually does make a mercury which dissolves gold as seen by volatilised tartar or ammonium carbonate
joined to spirit of urine or wine. The union of stibnite and iron, on the other hand, has a long way to go
before it will dissolve gold like ice in warm water.

Exactly...its the steel chablys that we calcine to "white hot" to make the lance which pierces the dragon and get him to yield his blood to the work and in do so as well release the "feminine" "dry water".

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 06:28 AM
Exactly...its the steel chablys that we calcine to "white hot" to make the lance which pierces the dragon and get him to yield his blood to the work and in do so as well release the "feminine" "dry water".

Precisely... it's the wolf that steels the sheep from Zeus' flock, only to be impaled by a lightning bolt that... :D