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pierre
03-23-2012, 07:57 PM
No more games. I got tired of so many lies and deceptions.
I will tell you openly what has been hidden all the time and was discovered long ago: the real work.
I know no one will share my opinion and you all will reject it because thousands of teachers say that such matter is not correct, (the teachers lie to hide the art) and a thousand other teachers say: everything is expensive does not fit into our work. (But they hide it by saying it is very valuable for those who know ...)
But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends.
Believe, check it or live duped forever...

Nibiru
03-23-2012, 08:04 PM
But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends.

Hello Pierre :)

Are you implying mineral Mercury to mean Hg, or Ph. Mercury extracted from the minerals??

pierre
03-23-2012, 08:14 PM
Hello Pierre :)

Are you implying mineral Mercury to mean Hg, or Ph. Mercury extracted from the minerals??

Hi, Nibiru.
HgS alchemically treated...

True Initiate
03-23-2012, 08:49 PM
Johann Gottfried Jugel widely known as Tugel (thanks to RAMs) was of the similar opinion. I want to share two very interesting excerpts from Compass of the Wise regarding HgS and metallic Gold:

http://img272.imagevenue.com/loc235/th_325351977_Jugel1_122_235lo.jpg (http://img272.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=325351977_Jugel1_122_235lo.jpg)

http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc571/th_535223200_Jugel2_122_571lo.jpg (http://img298.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=535223200_Jugel2_122_571lo.jpg)

solomon levi
03-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Frater Albertus gave a good book on this method:
Praxis Spagyrica Philosophia

Nibiru
03-23-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks guys :)

rogerc
03-24-2012, 12:48 AM
No more games. I got tired of so many lies and deceptions.
I will tell you openly what has been hidden all the time and was discovered long ago: the real work.
I know no one will share my opinion and you all will reject it because thousands of teachers say that such matter is not correct, (the teachers lie to hide the art) and a thousand other teachers say: everything is expensive does not fit into our work. (But they hide it by saying it is very valuable for those who know ...)
But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends.
Believe, check it or live duped forever...


I always thought among all the hermetic reefs we could get ship wrecked on, this was the easiest to navigate away from.

Nibiru
03-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Frater Albertus gave a good book on this method:
Praxis Spagyrica Philosophia

If this method is valid it could be considered a spagyric path to a particular stone, is this correct?

pierre
03-24-2012, 01:51 AM
Johann Gottfried Jugel widely known as Tugel (thanks to RAMs) was of the similar opinion. I want to share two very interesting excerpts from Compass of the Wise regarding HgS and metallic Gold:

http://img272.imagevenue.com/loc235/th_325351977_Jugel1_122_235lo.jpg (http://img272.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=325351977_Jugel1_122_235lo.jpg)

http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc571/th_535223200_Jugel2_122_571lo.jpg (http://img298.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=535223200_Jugel2_122_571lo.jpg)

I agree, True Puffer, because as the philosophers say: "gold is nothing but Mercury digested in the highest degree".
And: "Mercury is the mother of all metals..."

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 02:45 AM
If this method is valid it could be considered a spagyric path to a particular stone, is this correct?

Here's the book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52329027/Praxis-spagyrica-philosophica

From what I recall of it, the mercury is used to turn the gold into calx which
is fusile and then this fusile gold calx is digested through the colors into fixation.
I don't know that spagyric applies. This is a pretty tedious work.
It's not what I usually think of as spagyric. But it leads to a stone according to the author.

Generally, as far as i know, spagyric refers to seperating the three principles, cleaning them each,
and then rejoining them. This work doesn't do that so obviously as we would see working with
wine for example. In wine we extract the alcohol and the tartar and purify them...
In this labor with mercury, we kind of just see it spitting out impurities until gold is reduced
to its ens, and then it is cooked.

Seth-Ra
03-24-2012, 02:53 AM
I always thought among all the hermetic reefs we could get ship wrecked on, this was the easiest to navigate away from.

Ya know, i thought so too. lol
Something "new" everyday, right? ;)



~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 02:55 AM
I always thought among all the hermetic reefs we could get ship wrecked on, this was the easiest to navigate away from.


I have to admit I was disappointed by this revelation, but I don't disagree with it as a path.
I do disagree with "believe, check it or live duped forever". I mean I don't think this is the only way.
It fits very well the logic of a water which wets not the hands and gold as all you need.
It also fits with Eastern Alchemy - they love them some mercury.

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 03:24 AM
Hi Pierre.
So could you explain this in terms of the oak, lamb and fleece?
You said before that those clues lead you to the subject.
How does sunlight injure it?
Why is mercury black outside, white inside with a red heart?

zoas23
03-24-2012, 05:10 AM
This thread lead me to an article in which a guy explains a secret that lets you get gold from your computer using only mercury, a potato and fire:
http://www.hgms.org/Articles/Wark-PreciousMetalMine.html

http://www.hgms.org/Articles/Wark-JamesWark1.jpg http://www.hgms.org/Articles/Wark-Round24KIngot-Oblong14KIngot-Two14KRings.jpg

My guess is that there's more in alchemy that an amalgam of gold and mercury... or 10 computers, 10 potatos and some mercury (even if I think it is possible to do such thing).

rogerc
03-24-2012, 05:31 AM
Ya know, i thought so too. lol
Something "new" everyday, right? ;)



~Seth-Ra

I think you have me mistaken ...I meant it....not as past tense


On the subject of eastern alchemy, we could consider that they to have lost the true manner of working just as well, and mercury for them has come to be regarded in its vulgar sense.

On the method you speak Sol I think I mentioned it the other day...Guasco mentions this way of using vulgar mercury to open gold and reach its sulfur:


You can get a slightly different sulfur starting gold. And it will, why, to extract the vital principle of gold, as described so well Schwaeble. First, cut the lime in gold: why take the gold leaf, dissolve it in common mercury (this one goes as well as androgynous with sulfur than with the philosophical mercury). Then wash and knead until the amalgam is hard and the water runs clear - Put in a porcelain dish with that and the acid obtained as follows: Take a pound of nitric acid at 40 °, add 300 g of animal fat-free items (eg slack), heat until completely dissolved organic matter and filter through asbestos. This is a oxalic acid, whose atomic composition C4 is H2O9. While ordinary oxalic acid has the composition C2 H2 O2. This acid, while not dissolving the gold, removes mercury.
Then wash and knead until the amalgam is hard and the water runs clear - Put in a porcelain dish with that and the acid obtained as follows: Take a pound of nitric acid at 40 °, add 300 g of animal fat-free items (eg slack), heat until completely dissolved organic matter and filter through asbestos. This is a oxalic acid, whose atomic composition C4 is H2O9. While ordinary oxalic acid has the composition C2 H2 O2. This acid, while not dissolving the gold, removes mercury. Thus, we opened the gold. This is what we call the wet calcination. There remains only the fixed. This lime (the primitive earth) white, is magnesia, the virgin soil, ready to work in order to sulfur. Take the original white gold lime, well washed, put it in an oval-shaped flask with a long neck. Pour oil on this earth and not soufreuse sulfurous, mineral in nature, that is to say the oil and set fire to digest the same way as the compound of realgar. Red liquid is obtained, then the philosophical sulfur. But if you get this process with a transmutation in the final work you only get mediocre results of a maximum ratio of 1/1. That is to say, ridiculous in our eyes. Yet with this sulfur reduction condensed, you can change lead into gold. We can, again, use it for other purposes, this sulfur from gold directly, and the powder of projection in the medical field for example.



it is alternative to realgar but yields a weaker product according to him, since gold is dead, and incidently so is vulgar mercury....what Fulcanelli says echoes the good authors on this matter:


So with good reasoning certain authors assert that gold and mercury cannot help, wholly or partially, in the elaboration of the Work. The first, they say, because its proper agent has been separated from it during its completion, and the second, because the agent has not yet been introduced into it....in this regard he was speaking of the state human industry gives to reduced metals from their ore bodies...they take for symbolism in this state the icon of the dry arid tree..such is vulgar gold and mercury.....that why we need the philosophers "gold" and "mercury".

Seth-Ra
03-24-2012, 05:45 AM
I think you have me mistaken ...I meant it....not as past tense

Im not sure i understand what you mean here - as i was agreeing with you...?

Please clarify. :)



~Seth-Ra

rogerc
03-24-2012, 07:48 AM
Im not sure i understand what you mean here - as i was agreeing with you...?

Please clarify. :)



~Seth-Ra

Well, you said..."something new everyday"...which implied to me like you thought I received some great revelation or learned something new by this thread.......yes it sad, that we could regress this far and even begin this discussion anew.

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 09:03 AM
I think SethRa was saying that you were both learning something new - that someone can still
crash into that hermetic reef. That's how I read it.

abdo
03-24-2012, 09:04 AM
Here's the book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/52329027/Praxis-spagyrica-philosophica

You can download at : http://www.rexresearch.com/alchemy6/anonprax.PDF

Seth-Ra
03-24-2012, 12:47 PM
Well, you said..."something new everyday"...which implied to me like you thought I received some great revelation or learned something new by this thread.......yes it sad, that we could regress this far and even begin this discussion anew.

Ah, then I need to clarify. Lol
I put the new in quotations and added the wink emote to signal I was joking. Lol but I was indeed in agreement.

I can see using vulgar gold, and vulgar mercury - but I think there are better ways and that messing with the vulgar metals is both costly, dangerous, and not really worth it. I'll stick to living matters and their living metals. That's just me, and I'm not "downing" the thread - but it is an old idea that I've never seen a lot of results from, and I thought the wording of the first post lacked any sort of "grace".

Just IMO.



~Seth-Ra

pierre
03-24-2012, 01:37 PM
Hi Pierre.
So could you explain this in terms of the oak, lamb and fleece?
You said before that those clues lead you to the subject.
How does sunlight injure it?
Why is mercury black outside, white inside with a red heart?

Hi, solomon...

What you mention here is the formation of the seed metal or mineral in the bosom of the earth and that is universal, ie, is not determined yet, to any realm of nature, but circumstances secret, associate to the kingdom mineral. This seed is so tender that needs the protection of some black earth that surrounds it, because sunlight destroys it. It is fed by the soil moisture and warmth of her womb, during periods of heat and moisture that make it evolve towards the formation of minerals, in the future.

But free of this envelope by the alchemical art, is white and when ripe is red.

This substance released from the impurities that protect it, if exposed to the Spiritus Mundi, catches him and becomes the alchemical magnet as sought by the alchemists.You know that the Spiritus Mundi materialized in minerals is the alchemical sulfur or vital spark, set in the matter.

Able to identify this material and get it at the time of its creation in the black earth above, we would be spared the arduous work of breaking down the minerals to get this seed. Am I clear? Should only have to get it at birth and evolve as naturally as possible in our laboratory under controlled conditions similar to
those of nature, but with the benefit of speeding up the "natural time".

With reference to the lamb, oak and fleece, it's just a way to link these terms with the dark matter that protects the seed and discover the name by which we know that wrapper, commonly.

I apologize for my bad English, my friends.

solomon levi
03-24-2012, 09:21 PM
Thanks Pierre.
I still don't see how that relates to vulgar mercury.
Are you saying it relates?
Or did you arrive at mercury through other means?

If the oak represent the common name of our subject - how is this related to mercury
or cinnabar?

Kinnabaris - chene?

Mer-curry - running sea, but how oak?

Hermes - kermes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_coccifera


If you really want to reveal (it's up to you) solve the puzzle.


Personally, I agree that they lie and conceal.
I do not think acids are exempt from alchemy.
There is nothing unnatural about them - they just don't exist so concentrated in nature.
Nitre/dragon and sal ammoniac/eagle make a royal bath.
How far is this calx from that created by mercury vulgar?

I am not saying acids are THE path or my focus. I just don't believe a death is final.
The death is a strong bond with another chemical, which perhaps they didn't know how to break.
But that is not real death. Atoms do not die.
I can pluck corn from the ground, it's mother, stick it in the freezer and eat it a year later and it still nourishes -
not as much, but it isn't dead. Metals are not hopelessly dead when plucked from the earth, or even melted by fire.
Alchemy proves that. And yet preaches other than it proves.

abdo
03-25-2012, 01:51 PM
Frater Albertus gave a good book on this method:
Praxis Spagyrica Philosophia
Many information mentioned in this manuscript and it explanations by Frater Albertus are not true, especially when they described how to get Gold mercury.

True Initiate
03-25-2012, 04:55 PM
Since we are talking about Mercury, Antimony i want to put my opinion on this but it's just an opinion not a revelation of some kind!

The Antimony Path was followed by Alchemists like Newton, Solazaref, Canseliet but the old Alchemists like Flamel called it the Amalgam Path. One can ask himself where is the difference between those two Paths?
In the Antimony Path the first matter is obviously Antimony which is charged by other subjects like Iron and Copper but in the Amalgam Path the first matter is the Amalgam of Mercury and Iron! See the difference?

Interesting fact is that Fe is the only metal with which Hg cann't amalgamate! For this reason Fe must be purified before amalgamation also Hg must be purified too before she can join to her husband. After this is accomplished we have united two very different things the Red man of Hot and Dry nature and White wife of Cold and Moist nature. The end product will contain all 4 ellements in it's bossom and this appears to be true first matter of Amalgam Path.

I believe this was original idea of the Alchemists who invented this Path but later it degenareted into Antimony Path by misunderstanding the alchemical Theory behind the Amalgam Path! .

pierre
03-25-2012, 09:43 PM
Thanks Pierre.
I still don't see how that relates to vulgar mercury.
Are you saying it relates?
Or did you arrive at mercury through other means?

If the oak represent the common name of our subject - how is this related to mercury
or cinnabar?

Kinnabaris - chene?

Mer-curry - running sea, but how oak?

Hermes - kermes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_coccifera


If you really want to reveal (it's up to you) solve the puzzle.


Personally, I agree that they lie and conceal.
I do not think acids are exempt from alchemy.
There is nothing unnatural about them - they just don't exist so concentrated in nature.
Nitre/dragon and sal ammoniac/eagle make a royal bath.
How far is this calx from that created by mercury vulgar?

I am not saying acids are THE path or my focus. I just don't believe a death is final.
The death is a strong bond with another chemical, which perhaps they didn't know how to break.
But that is not real death. Atoms do not die.
I can pluck corn from the ground, it's mother, stick it in the freezer and eat it a year later and it still nourishes -
not as much, but it isn't dead. Metals are not hopelessly dead when plucked from the earth, or even melted by fire.
Alchemy proves that. And yet preaches other than it proves.

No, solomon, the terms fleece, oak and lamb, has nothing in common with the path of mercury. There are alternatives and are not associated.
I also want to apologize for the term I used in another post (live duped forever ...) Now I know that the term means something that I did not mean. I should have Wrote: ... "or be deceived forever ..." I'm really sorry about that...

solomon levi
03-25-2012, 10:00 PM
Okay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Duped is pretty synonymous with deceived, fooled, to be illusioned, tricked, conned, swindled... :)

horticult
03-26-2012, 04:21 PM
?? oak = cinnabar; Hg from cinnabar by some cool cold trick ;-) = live, philosophic Hg ??

pierre
03-26-2012, 04:28 PM
?? oak = cinnabar; Hg from cinnabar by some cool cold trick ;-) = live, philosophic Hg ??

No, horticult, that was a misunderstanding, because of old posts...

horticult
03-26-2012, 05:02 PM
pierre, are you going to post some info about that wrapper?

pierre
03-26-2012, 07:13 PM
pierre, are you going to post some info about that wrapper?

Hi, horticult,
With respect to this path, is a 100% natural alternative. It should make without the aid of acids, salts, heat, corrosive, as nature does in the bowels of the earth. At best, a glass vessel containing the substance to manipulate comfortably, when cleaned of their impurities. This universal seed, not even mineral or metal, yet, it is undetermined to any realm of nature. We should direct it to the mineral kingdom. Its natural cover is a black-colored substance, a sort of rotten ground product of the consecutive stages of damp heat, (I dont't know if this are the best words to describe) the weather will bring. We can all see with our eyes and touched with our hands that matter. But we must identify which thing is which produces that black earth. Chemically speaking is a substance well known, and if you see the hidden correspondences of this substance, you may find that the fleece, lamb and oak, among others, will take you through the Kabbalah, at the subject name.
Strangely, this seed clean and separated from its black cover and filthy, has a certain radioactive property is generated by the natural conditions of its own evolution. But it is not itself radioactive as the others that we know today.
Sorry I can not say much more...

Hellin Hermetist
03-26-2012, 07:35 PM
When you speak about kaballa, are you referring to Greek puns, as Fulcanelli did?
Didn't you say at the beginning that this substance is common mercury in its mineral form? Or that was some kind of pun too?
Ι have found a certain procedure using common mercury and common gold, at the treatise named "Traite de Chymie Philosophie et Hermetique, Enrichi des Operations les plus Curieuses de l' Art". Are you referring to that procedure or at another one?

pierre
03-26-2012, 08:23 PM
When you speak about kaballa, are you referring to Greek puns, as Fulcanelli did?

Yes, Fulcanelli points us to this subject, through the Kabbalah, definitely, when he mentions a kind of attraction that falls on a fleece, only, indicating a magnetic virtue of this fleece.

Didn't you say at the beginning that this substance is common mercury in its mineral form? Or that was some kind of pun too?

Yes, but this does not refer to the natural way of which we are speaking now. It refers to the path of the gold and mercury, exclusively.

Ι have found a certain procedure using common mercury and common gold, at the treatise named "Traite de Chymie Philosophie et Hermetique, Enrichi des Operations les plus Curieuses de l' Art". Are you referring to that procedure or at another one?

Sorry, I really do not know this treatise...

solomon levi
03-26-2012, 09:42 PM
Hi Pierre.
May I suggest Cabala is the term you want.
As i understand, this refers more to green language and cryptic symbols.
Kabbalah refers more to the 10 sephiroth and esoteric jewish teachings.

Thanks for your generous description.

alfr
03-26-2012, 09:55 PM
Hi, solomon...

What you mention here is the formation of the seed metal or mineral in the bosom of the earth and that is universal, ie, is not determined yet, to any realm of nature, but circumstances secret, associate to the kingdom mineral. This seed is so tender that needs the protection of some black earth that surrounds it, because sunlight destroys it. It is fed by the soil moisture and warmth of her womb, during periods of heat and moisture that make it evolve towards the formation of minerals, in the future.

But free of this envelope by the alchemical art, is white and when ripe is red.

This substance released from the impurities that protect it, if exposed to the Spiritus Mundi, catches him and becomes the alchemical magnet as sought by the alchemists.You know that the Spiritus Mundi materialized in minerals is the alchemical sulfur or vital spark, set in the matter.

Able to identify this material and get it at the time of its creation in the black earth above, we would be spared the arduous work of breaking down the minerals to get this seed. Am I clear? Should only have to get it at birth and evolve as naturally as possible in our laboratory under controlled conditions similar to
those of nature, but with the benefit of speeding up the "natural time".

With reference to the lamb, oak and fleece, it's just a way to link these terms with the dark matter that protects the seed and discover the name by which we know that wrapper, commonly.

I apologize for my bad English, my friends.


Originally Posted by horticult

pierre, are you going to post some info about that wrapper?

Hi, horticult,
With respect to this path, is a 100% natural alternative. It should make without the aid of acids, salts, heat, corrosive, as nature does in the bowels of the earth. At best, a glass vessel containing the substance to manipulate comfortably, when cleaned of their impurities. This universal seed, not even mineral or metal, yet, it is undetermined to any realm of nature. We should direct it to the mineral kingdom. Its natural cover is a black-colored substance, a sort of rotten ground product of the consecutive stages of damp heat, (I dont't know if this are the best words to describe) the weather will bring. We can all see with our eyes and touched with our hands that matter. But we must identify which thing is which produces that black earth. Chemically speaking is a substance well known, and if you see the hidden correspondences of this substance, you may find that the fleece, lamb and oak, among others, will take you through the Kabbalah, at the subject name.
Strangely, this seed clean and separated from its black cover and filthy, has a certain radioactive property is generated by the natural conditions of its own evolution. But it is not itself radioactive as the others that we know today.
Sorry I can not say much more...

Hi Pirre and every body

Pierre about your decription of this matter and your way (interesting) total natural 100% and alternative and SO about this ( NOW i dont want tell that this is one of the mny matters describet of fulcanelli so is imho there are to much many coincidence and many similar indication to many possible matters about those are many subject metallic and mineral more much affidability anb eligible for this roles marcasiti arseopiriti bismuth AND SURE IN ABSOLUTLY THE REALGAR etc. BUT INSTEAD CERTAINLY AND SURE comes to my mind some writings of gerber (Jābir ibn Hayyān) based on the elaboration alchemical on the: humus torba Compost SO i think that pierre maybe it this the matter you decribed: humus torba Compost ?

QUOTE Pierre :
Its natural cover is a black-colored substance, a sort of rotten ground product of the consecutive stages of damp heat,(I dont't know if this are the best words to describe)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus ?

humus torba Compost ?? AND MAYBE USE THIS AS SIMILAR MAYBE method gived Geber in him book The 70 Books ??

QUOTE
by de Geber (Jābir ibn Hayyān) , livre des 70(The 70 Books) Look at the 70 books of Geber alchemy work : ( of it i have one version of it in old latin)
NB and also roger guasco made experiment with also this method

"...............Prenez de l'humus, (QUOTE Its natural cover is a black-colored substance, a sort of rotten ground product of the consecutive stages of damp heat,(I dont't know if this are the best words to describe) mettez dans un grand saladier, ajoutez de l'eau distillée (de pluie), chauffez à feu doux afin que l'eau s'évapore. Lorsque cela est fait, et sec, remettez de l'eau de pluie (la foudre de Zeus est symbole du feu celeste, la pluie en contient une partie) solve et coagula, de manière répétée, la terre se désagrège au contact du feu et de l'eau, elle noircit, devient comme un charbon réduit en poudre. Et là va apparaître un sel en surface de la terre, ( QUOTE: But free of this envelope by the alchemical art, is white and when ripe is red.) NB this salt became red after some manipulatins c'est le sel de la terre qui contient le feu. On a utilisé une terre, le feu, (das l'eau de pluie) et on a obtenu un sel qui est un feu cristallé. On a utilisé un médium pour parvenir à faire agir le feu sur la terre: l'eau.........." (THE SALT WIHTE TRASFORMED and separated from its black ) QUOTE: Strangely, this seed clean and separated from its black cover and filthy, has a certain radioactive property is generated by the natural conditions of its own evolution. But it is not itself radioactive as the others that we know today) "(and SO we arrived to form one special salt similar to one special potassium ?? NB potassiun (other different elaboration of this way ??) has a one some certain radioactive)

my best regards alfr

pierre
03-26-2012, 10:15 PM
Hi Pirre
way total natural 100% and alternative ? humus torba ?
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus ?

by de Geber (Jābir ibn Hayyān) , livre des 70(The 70 Books) Look at the 70 books of Geber alchemy work :

"Prenez de l'humus, mettez dans un grand saladier, ajoutez de l'eau distillée (de pluie), chauffez à feu doux afin que l'eau s'évapore. Lorsque cela est fait, et sec, remettez de l'eau de pluie (la foudre de Zeus est symbole du feu celeste, la pluie en contient une partie) solve et coagula, de manière répétée, la terre se désagrège au contact du feu et de l'eau, elle noircit, devient comme un charbon réduit en poudre. Et là va apparaître un sel en surface de la terre, c'est le sel de la terre qui contient le feu. On a utilisé une terre, le feu, (das l'eau de pluie) et on a obtenu un sel qui est un feu cristallé. On a utilisé un médium pour parvenir à faire agir le feu sur la terre : l'eau."

my best regards alfr

I guess You should check in practice whether you're right or not, alfr.
Go ahead...

garvolt2002
03-26-2012, 11:16 PM
Thanks very much Alfr and Pierre, Now we must find the 70 books of geber. I see Kissingar press has some of the Vol's available and you can view online in google books. Amazon also has a vol on geber. Does anyone know where to get all these book in English, French, Italian or Spanish. A latin version exists if we have a good translator. Also I feel now this matter of Pierre is compost after reading what Alfr posted. Another method which is very natural way. It will be interesting what Rogerc says on this.
Thanks Pierre and alfr once again.
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Works_of_Geber.html?id=siLPmQew3AoC&redir_esc=y
http://www.amazon.com/Alchemical-Works-Geber-Jabir-Hayyan/dp/0877288119/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332803750&sr=8-2

rogerc
03-27-2012, 12:42 AM
. It will be interesting what Rogerc says on this.


Oh...the madness!! I guess everyone could start a thread on what they think Fulcanelli's "black" matter is and drive the masses to conjecture...I guess it could be humus, coal, shit, lampblack, pitchblende....the problem arises ...Pierre when taking the matter we have in mind and applying it to the texts, of course it must fit in every scenario and alternate symbolism and allegory given, not just one. If we want to sound convincing to the members of the forum we have to post the relevant phrase describing the matter from the text and place it in context with the surrounding theme not just on that particular page but throughout the book when the matter is described by alternate allegories/descriptions and as well as alternate books written either by the same author or others we know to be of the same lineage, the worse we can do is take one sentence out of context.

There's really nothing else to comment about here, until I hear something worthwhile of discussing or debating about, its obvious Pierre here doesn't want to give away "his" matter, so really and truely alot has been spoken without saying anything at all. So I guess my point is.... and this is completly my opinion, no offense intended, but why start a thread and say: "No more games. I got tired of so many lies and deceptions".... like you are going to reveal all for the first time in the history of the art and then keep your tongue tied, its silly really, so why not comeout and say what you think it is, after all it won't do any harm, its either already been revealed or it will be outright rejected, and you will get differing opinions and so forth.... no matter what it is.

Alfr and others..... about humus, this is rotten vegatable matter, how does this make it different from plant alchemy...universal is universal...that means...no matter, no plant, no animal, no mineral nor derived from any of the preceding three kingdoms, universal means it pertains to all three and not yet specified to any. In this sense when hand put to work it can be only a substance that contains the correct hermetic ratios of elemental principles to make it a magnet for the spiritus mundi. And it does not need to be a physical magnet, it can be an apparatus that conveys these principles in form. But with the former,in this instance, this magnet is not black, it doesn't need to be black, we only need to work it in the dark for reasons I have already given in other threads. In this sense there is no one matter "black"....its certainly not the one Fulcanelli is describing...he knows the difference between universal and particular and universal alchemy and mineral alchemy, alchemy and spagery, alchemy and archemy, he perferably describes the mineral and does not give more than clues on the universal, about the mineral he is more than generous in his descriptions, that I have written volumes on.

About the path on humus in general...I wouldn't waste my time....Patrice Partemien(spelling?) worked his lifetime on what he thought was the path of the mutus liber and at most got weak menstrums that he used on metals...he died last year at what I think is an early age for someone taking preparations of real alchemical virtue. Shilajit and some forms of jewish bitumen seem to have certain effects and they do contain humic and fulvic acids but if we trace the origin of their virtue, we find it not in the rotten plant material, but instead a certain celestial influence infused and attracted by certain salts and in combination with certain geo-telluric forces generated by certain rock formations and pressure/squeezing...here you can go back to the threads on limestone and gypsum....and you can ask yourself why did Cyliani want to be buried in a chalky place?.....look at what Guasco says about the pyramids in his book. Read the bible passages of the Mutus Liber...why on a certain type of rock when the dew fell and dried up did it leave the celestial manna behind., why did this manna disappear when the sun rose? What do we learn here to put in line with hermetic doctrine about the fatal effect of the sun on substances too weak and nascent? What do salts of dew accomplish when united with salts of earth, this is our "antimony"...our harmony between heaven and earth....the dew of heaven joined to the fat of the land. Why is sublimation and change in state important to alchemy and archemy in creating real metamorphasis.

New International Version (©1984)
When the dew was gone, thin flakes like frost on the ground appeared on the desert floor.
New Living Translation (©2007)
When the dew evaporated, a flaky substance as fine as frost blanketed the ground.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And when the dew had gone up, there was on the face of the wilderness a fine, flake-like thing, fine as frost on the ground.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
When the layer of dew evaporated, behold, on the surface of the wilderness there was a fine flake-like thing, fine as the frost on the ground.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.

Andro
03-27-2012, 03:26 AM
Patrice Partemien(spelling?) worked his lifetime on what he thought was the path of the mutus liber and at most got weak menstrums that he used on metals...

Actually, Guasco makes a reference to this path, without directly mentioning the name of Barbault ('Gold of a Thousand Mornings'), drawing similar conclusions.

Pleroma
03-27-2012, 04:05 AM
and at most got weak menstrums that he used on metals

is menstrum and alkahest the same thing, the definition in alchemy. ? anyone know?

rogerc
03-27-2012, 05:43 AM
Actually, Guasco makes a reference to this path, without directly mentioning the name of Barbault ('Gold of a Thousand Mornings'), drawing similar conclusions.

At what point in The Great Work does he speak of it? There is regimine of salt, sulfur and mercury. There is the great undertaking in alchemy which is the great work, which pertains to the attraction of the astral spirit and the labors of hercules, and then there is the paths of all the little particulars. Anything we find in the plant and animal and even mineral is a particular, they make weak menstrums and weak stones. The only thing about the mineral is if we take the astral sprit and put it on the matter containing the two metallic natures we come closer to the universal because, the astral spirit always orients himself to the mineral kingdom like says Fulcanelli, this is why gold is so closely tied to the stone. Can we find a substance in the plant and animal kingdoms that is like gold? Does the stone turn base metals into mustard, or does it turn them into gold, this is the spot that all philosophers say to stick with like, because something of unlike nature cannot beget something it is not, Basil Valentine makes the most sense in this regard, the idea is pretty straight foward and hides nothing,......the astral spirit is the seed of metals.

If we are talking about humus why not just use coal, is this what the philosophers meant to speak of when talking of the two metallic natures, seminal that make up metals....absolutely not, this would mean that there was plants on the earth before minerals and that they had to decay and give these two matters before metals could exist, which also could not be. And so I regress....
Its traditional name, the stone of the philosophers, is descriptive enough of the body to
serve as a useful basis for its identification. It is, indeed, genuinely a stone, for, out of the
mine, it shows the external characteristics common to all ores. It is the chaos of the sages,
in which the four elements are contained, but in a confused, disorganized manner. It is
our old man and the father of metals which owe their origin to it, as it represents the first
earthly metallic manifestation. It is our arsenic, cadmia, antimony, blende, galena,
cinnabar, tutia, tartar, etc. All ores, through the hermetic voice, rendered homage to it
with their name. It is still called black dragon covered with scales, venomous serpent,
daughter of Saturn, and "the most beloved of its children". This primal substance has seen
its evolution interrupted by the interposition of a filthy combustible sulphur, which coats
its pure mercury, holds it back, and coagulates it. And, though it is entirely volatile, this
primitive mercury, materialized by the drying action of the arsenical sulphur, takes the
shape of a solid, black, dense, fibrous, brittle, crushable mass rendered, by its lack of
utility, vile, abject, and despicable in the eyes of man, Yet, in this subject --- poor relative
of the metal family --- the enlightened artist finds everything that he needs to begin and
perfect his Great Work, since it is present, say the authors, at the beginning, the middle,
and the end of the Work. Therefore the Ancients have compared it to the Chaos of
Creation, where elements and principles, the darkness and the light, were on and the other
confounded, intermixed, and unable to mutually interact. For this reason they
symbolically depicted their matter in its first being as the image of the world which
contained in itself the materials of our hermetic globe (1), or microcosm, assembled
without order, without form, without rhythm or measure.
Our globe, reflection and mirror of the microcosm, is therefore nothing but a small part of
the primordial Chaos, destined by divine will for elementary renewal in the three
kingdoms, but which sets of mysterious circumstances have oriented and directed toward
the mineral kingdom. Thus given form and specified, subjected to the laws ruling the
evolution and the progression of minerals, this chaos, which has become a body, contains
in a confused manner the purest seed and the closest substance there is to minerals and
metals. The philosopher’s matter is therefore of mineral and metallic origin. Hence, one
must only seek it in the mineral and metallic root, which, says, Basil Valentine in the
book, The Twelve Keys, was reserved by the Creator and intended only for the generation
of metals. Consequently, anyone who seeks the sacred stone of the philosophers with the
hope of encountering this little world in substances alien to the mineral and metallic
kingdoms, will never reach his goals.

This matter is not humus or coal, these are not ores of metals...all ores of metals are ruled by the laws governing the evolution and progression of minerals, this is the chaos which has become a body, all ores payed homage to it with there name, the matter of the two metallic natures is therefore arsenical sulfur, all ores contain arsenic and sulfur, all the great treatises on metallic formation say these are the seminal natures of metals, thus they all contain a bit of this chaos, which are retained from the anima mundi in nitre and salt and are the key to awakening them and putting them back into their chaotic state, but only two matters contain pure arsenical sulfur and they are orpiment and realgar, female and male. Cyliani gave complete instructions for the Magnum Opus, he said you only need to seek the matter of the two metallic natures and also you must solve the problem of what is astral spirit and how to attract it, this is why the celestial nymph gave him the two vases containing these matters. The letter from Gerbant to Mr Metz explaining the operativity behind Hermes Unveiled from as he heard it from the lips of the master himself, gives the method for obtaining astral spirit, we make a trip to compostella with the pole star as the guide, it doesn't mean to use an organic compost, but it can be a compost if the compost is a composite of chalky, limey,sulphurous "fatty" earth and starry/lunar radiation hence the grotto where is born the redeemer that contains the fire/agnus, azoth (the dew of heaven and the fat of the land or to be more precise the fat of the land attracts the dew of heaven, this is what means that plate from Mysteries of the Catherdrals that pierre spoke of in regard to heavenly influence only falling on the rock
Let us return to the facade at Amiens. The anonymous master,
who sculptured the medallions in the Porch of the Virgin Mother,
has given a very curious interpretation to the condensation of the
universal spirit. An adept is contemplating the stream of celestial
dew falling on a mass, which a number of authors have taken for a
fleece. Without condemning this opinion, it is equally plausible to
suspect here a different body, such as that mineral designated by the
name of Magnesia or philosophic lodestone. It will be noticed that
this water does not fall on anything else but the subject under consideration,
which suggests the presence of an attracting quality
hidden in this body. That it is important to try to identify
(pl. XXXVII). The help we get in identification is from the bible passages given by the Mutus Liber and also that letter which from Gerbant which says to use gypsum, which gives us our artificial grotto :

Salamander, in Latin salamandra, comes from sal, salt, and mandra, which means stable
and also rock hollow, solitude, hermitage. Salamandra then is the name of the salt of the
stable, salt of the rock, or solitary salt. In the Greek language this word takes another
meaning, revealing the action that provokes: the Greek word [***-125-1] (Salamandra)
appears formed from [***-125-2] (Sala) meaning agitation, perturbation, used probably
for [***-125-3] (salos) or [***-125-4] (zale), agitated water, tempest, fluctuation, and
from [***-125-5] (mandra) which has the same meaning as in Latin. From these
etymologies we can draw the conclusion that the salt, spirit or fire takes birth in a stable,
a rock hollow, a grotto... That is enough. Lying on the straw of his manger in the grotto
of Bethlehem, is Jesus not the new sun bringing light to the world? Is he not God himself
in his carnal and perishable shell? Who the has said: "I am the Spirit and I am the Life;
and I have come to set fire unto things?".
This spiritual fire, given form and materialized in salt, is the hidden sulphur, since during
its operation it is never made manifest or perceptible to our eyes. And yet this sulphur, as
invisible as it may be, is not an ingenious abstraction or a doctrine stratagem. We know
how to isolate it, how to extract it from the body that conceals it, by an occult means and
in the appearance of a dry powder which, when it is in that state, becomes improper and
without effect for the philosopher’s art

This fire is then transfered or fixed to the remora through there battle which is an cold and congealing alkaline salt and this becomes the magnet which gives the secret solvent/ secret sulfur to dissolve the lock of the temple and defeat the dragon which yields his blood containing the two metallic natures: sulfur and mercury philosophic.


From the combat that the knight, or secret sulphur, engages with the arsenical sulphur of
the old dragon, is born the astral stone, white, heavy, shining as pure silver, and which
appears to be signed, bearing the imprint of its nobility, its stamp (1) esoterically
translated as the griffin, a sure indication of the union and peace between fire and water,
between air and earth

And that gentlemen is the real secret of the work......

Andro
03-27-2012, 06:55 AM
At what point in The Great Work does he speak of it?

He mentions it in the Salt Work.

Quoth Guasco (via 'Google Translate'):


A contemporary, unknowingly got alchemical salt by his hard work by using earth foliage; called peaty soil, residue of plant decay, and he watered his earth with dew - evaporating - watering - mixing continuously for a thousand days: the result was not negative, because it was an alchemical salt that he eventually produced and, by adding gold dust to his composition, he arrived at a liquor of gold salts (as this salt alchemically attacks gold), but the ashes of its plants can be, depending on the location of their harvest, toxic or beneficial - hence uncertainty of results, especially regarding their curative use: potable gold does not manufacture as well.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________


Actually, Guasco makes a reference to this path, without directly mentioning the name of Barbault ('Gold of a Thousand Mornings'), drawing similar conclusions.

By "similar conclusions" I meant 'limited/uncertain results'.

Salazius
03-27-2012, 07:04 AM
Hi Pleroma,

No, a menstrum is used to draw out sulfurs of matters without making them putrefy.
An Alkahest is used to open, decompose, and putrefy; ferment.

solomon levi
03-27-2012, 10:02 AM
The humic and fulvic acids are actually full of minerals:
"TRACE MINERALS:
Antimony, Barium, Beryllium, Bismuth, Boron, Bromine, Calcium, Carbon, Cerium, Cesium, Chloride, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Gadolinium, Gallium, Gold, Germanium, Hafnium, Holmium, Indium, Iodine, Iridium, Iron, Lithium, Lutetium, Lanthanum, Niacin, Nickel, Magnesium, Molybdenum, Niobium, Osmium, Neodymium, Palladium, Phosphorus Potassium, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium, Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfur Tantalum, Thallium, Thorium, Tellurium, Terbium, Thulium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Vanadium, Ytterbium, Yttrium and Zinc."


They are called organo-minerals...
They also have the radioactive connection Pierre mentions:
“Radioactive elements have an affinity for humic and fulvic acids. They form organo-metal complexes of different adsorptive stability and solubility. Uranuim and plutonium are influenced by humic substances as are other polluting metals, each being solubilized and absorbed, thereby annihilating that specific radioactivity.”
“Radioactive substances react rapidly with fulvic acid, and only a brief time is required for equilibrium to be reached. All radioactive elements are capable of reacting with fulvic acid and thus forming organo-metal complexes of different adsorptive stability and solubility”.
http://www.supremefulvic.com/?gclid=CPyfsYrihq8CFQJdhwod-BTv-Q

They are also very associated with time/aging/saturn - the colors of dying vegetation.
They call it senescience.


No matter what kingdom you work in, you have to add gold.
(well, you don't have to, but if you want to take it as far as it goes, all kingdoms
accept gold, because...)
It isn't unnatural to add gold to the plant work or urine work, because the
heaven that is created from them is no longer plant, animal or mineral.
This is another trick to fool the unwise.

And that is the real secret of the great work. ;)
(The great work has lots of real secrets, apparently)


"If we are talking about humus why not just use coal, is this what the philosophers meant to speak of when talking of the two metallic natures, seminal that make up metals....absolutely not,"

Well, carbonates are the salts of each kingdom - tartar, limestone, coral, etc...


"old man"
the aforementioned acids are also found in ammonite fossils, fossil fuels, fossilised plants and earth

pierre
03-27-2012, 11:29 AM
At what point in The Great Work does he speak of it? There is regimine of salt, sulfur and mercury. There is the great undertaking in alchemy which is the great work, which pertains to the attraction of the astral spirit and the labors of hercules, and then there is the paths of all the little particulars. Anything we find in the plant and animal and even mineral is a particular, they make weak menstrums and weak stones. The only thing about the mineral is if we take the astral sprit and put it on the matter containing the two metallic natures we come closer to the universal because, the astral spirit always orients himself to the mineral kingdom like says Fulcanelli, this is why gold is so closely tied to the stone. Can we find a substance in the plant and animal kingdoms that is like gold? Does the stone turn base metals into mustard, or does it turn them into gold, this is the spot that all philosophers say to stick with like, because something of unlike nature cannot beget something it is not, Basil Valentine makes the most sense in this regard, the idea is pretty straight foward and hides nothing,......the astral spirit is the seed of metals.

If we are talking about humus why not just use coal, is this what the philosophers meant to speak of when talking of the two metallic natures, seminal that make up metals....absolutely not, this would mean that there was plants on the earth before minerals and that they had to decay and give these two matters before metals could exist, which also could not be. And so I regress....

This matter is not humus or coal, these are not ores of metals...all ores of metals are ruled by the laws governing the evolution and progression of minerals, this is the chaos which has become a body, all ores payed homage to it with there name, the matter of the two metallic natures is therefore arsenical sulfur, all ores contain arsenic and sulfur, all the great treatises on metallic formation say these are the seminal natures of metals, thus they all contain a bit of this chaos, which are retained from the anima mundi in nitre and salt and are the key to awakening them and putting them back into their chaotic state, but only two matters contain pure arsenical sulfur and they are orpiment and realgar, female and male. Cyliani gave complete instructions for the Magnum Opus, he said you only need to seek the matter of the two metallic natures and also you must solve the problem of what is astral spirit and how to attract it, this is why the celestial nymph gave him the two vases containing these matters. The letter from Gerbant to Mr Metz explaining the operativity behind Hermes Unveiled from as he heard it from the lips of the master himself, gives the method for obtaining astral spirit, we make a trip to compostella with the pole star as the guide, it doesn't mean to use an organic compost, but it can be a compost if the compost is a composite of chalky, limey,sulphurous "fatty" earth and starry/lunar radiation hence the grotto where is born the redeemer that contains the fire/agnus, azoth (the dew of heaven and the fat of the land or to be more precise the fat of the land attracts the dew of heaven, this is what means that plate from Mysteries of the Catherdrals that pierre spoke of in regard to heavenly influence only falling on the rock The help we get in identification is from the bible passages given by the Mutus Liber and also that letter which from Gerbant which says to use gypsum, which gives us our artificial grotto :


This fire is then transfered or fixed to the remora through there battle which is an cold and congealing alkaline salt and this becomes the magnet which gives the secret solvent/ secret sulfur to dissolve the lock of the temple and defeat the dragon which yields his blood containing the two metallic natures: sulfur and mercury philosophic.



And that gentlemen is the real secret of the work......

It's my fault to have created much confusion, since we are talking about 2 different things in the same post. With reference to the phrase "I'm tired of lies" I said clearly that the gold and mercury are the subjects. Of course, not raw, but conveniently prepared. That is one thing.

On the other hand, I've been talking about the alchemical magnet, and I never said that is humus or compost. ¿Will be? This is on account of you.
We must look beyond the appearance of things.

Fulcanelli's magnet is obtained in the third work, toward the end of it. Is sulfur subtilized that captures the universal energy. But it must reach the end of the work to get it.
I refer to another kind of magnet, not a product of the decomposition of metals, as Fulcanelli, but of that nature gives us naturally and smoothly.
And of course there are more than 1 magnet to catch the SM

Finally, remember the words of Fulcanelli, if you believe in, when he talks about antimony, denying as matter: "matter is not properly mineral, even less, metal." (or something like that) is "flos Florum". A sort of undefined Chaos ...

From what I read on this forum, mentioned scores of subjects to perform the Work, and none of them has been the consensus of the members of the forum. But some substance must be correct, and surely must have been mentioned here in the forum.
As mentioned above in this post, we must look beyond the appearance of things, with eyes of apprentice and open mind. We must learn to unlearn and take away the rigid structures that condition and avoid us see new lights.
And I include myself in this concept. I'm not giving sermons to anyone.

Only practice will be what will get us out of doubt ...
Ora et Labora...

Ghislain
03-27-2012, 03:38 PM
We must learn to unlearn and take away the rigid structures that condition and avoid us see new lights.

Exactly!

Ghislain

Seth-Ra
03-27-2012, 05:01 PM
No matter what kingdom you work in, you have to add gold.
(well, you don't have to, but if you want to take it as far as it goes, all kingdoms
accept gold, because...)
It isn't unnatural to add gold to the plant work or urine work, because the
heaven that is created from them is no longer plant, animal or mineral.
This is another trick to fool the unwise.

And that is the real secret of the great work. ;)
(The great work has lots of real secrets, apparently)


One word: EXACTLY!

(now for more words lol)
The Spirit can be broken free of its matter and material polarity, and in that state, it is universal - because it is the same living spirit in ALL. Thats how it heals the human/animal, rapidly grows the plants, and transmutes the metals - it works on All, regardless of its origins, just like we do. :cool:



~Seth-Ra

rogerc
03-27-2012, 07:56 PM
The humic and fulvic acids are actually full of minerals:
"TRACE MINERALS:
Antimony, Barium, Beryllium, Bismuth, Boron, Bromine, Calcium, Carbon, Cerium, Cesium, Chloride, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Gadolinium, Gallium, Gold, Germanium, Hafnium, Holmium, Indium, Iodine, Iridium, Iron, Lithium, Lutetium, Lanthanum, Niacin, Nickel, Magnesium, Molybdenum, Niobium, Osmium, Neodymium, Palladium, Phosphorus Potassium, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium, Samarium, Scandium, Selenium, Silicon, Silver, Sodium, Strontium, Sulfur Tantalum, Thallium, Thorium, Tellurium, Terbium, Thulium, Tin, Titanium, Tungsten, Vanadium, Ytterbium, Yttrium and Zinc."


They are called organo-minerals...
They also have the radioactive connection Pierre mentions:
“Radioactive elements have an affinity for humic and fulvic acids. They form organo-metal complexes of different adsorptive stability and solubility. Uranuim and plutonium are influenced by humic substances as are other polluting metals, each being solubilized and absorbed, thereby annihilating that specific radioactivity.”
“Radioactive substances react rapidly with fulvic acid, and only a brief time is required for equilibrium to be reached. All radioactive elements are capable of reacting with fulvic acid and thus forming organo-metal complexes of different adsorptive stability and solubility”.
http://www.supremefulvic.com/?gclid=CPyfsYrihq8CFQJdhwod-BTv-Q

They are also very associated with time/aging/saturn - the colors of dying vegetation.
They call it senescience.


No matter what kingdom you work in, you have to add gold.
(well, you don't have to, but if you want to take it as far as it goes, all kingdoms
accept gold, because...)
It isn't unnatural to add gold to the plant work or urine work, because the
heaven that is created from them is no longer plant, animal or mineral.
This is another trick to fool the unwise.

And that is the real secret of the great work. ;)
(The great work has lots of real secrets, apparently)


"If we are talking about humus why not just use coal, is this what the philosophers meant to speak of when talking of the two metallic natures, seminal that make up metals....absolutely not,"

Well, carbonates are the salts of each kingdom - tartar, limestone, coral, etc...


"old man"
the aforementioned acids are also found in ammonite fossils, fossil fuels, fossilised plants and earth

I pursued these two acids with great zeal when considering shilajit as a first matter...if you think about how shilajit is formed you will understand why it contains all those minerals, just like GCH says anima mundi tied to niter and salt trickles through the earth dissolving whatever ever it meets, we see the action in the alkahest of soil experiment he gives, I performed the experiment myself over the course of two weeks, it only requires a light sandy soil, it does make a stronger and stronger agent each time a distillation is performed dissolving what it couldn't before, nature works the same way generating acids and corroding agents as its trickles deeper and deeper dissolving those minerals they find as "trace"....... this makes it poisonous, especially when the rotted plant matter and animal runiment is thrown in but we don't need plant matter for this, but the soil experiment alone is tied to the application of the use of the four elements earth, fire, water and air in circulation...we can go forward in generating grosser and more corpreal and fixed subjects or we can go backward and create subtler and more spiritual volatile subjects...

I bought gallons of fulvic and humic acid for consumption, it was very expensive and had no good effect on me, and sorry but they don't dissolve gold....I waited months in vain...in fact I think I still have gold leaf sitting in fulvic acid, it has no action.

If anything of alchemical significance lies in this work I assure you its not in the fulvic and humic acids...you have to think more in line of the excerpt from Guasco's path that Androgynus gave......and just like in GCH and in that letter from Gerbant to Metz on Cyliani...azoth or anima mundi exists in the nitrogen and he says be sure nitrogen philsophers...that exists at the time of organic decomposition it resolves itself to ammonia spirit which condenses as an ammoniacal salt, this salt or spirt contains the living acid of nature, the other we get from niter also made philosophic...and we don't need plant matter to make these salts, its better urine, dew and gypsum as the matrix of the absorbed celestial currents and hermetic astral radiations.
In this regard just like GCH claims there is no difference between commerically percured salts and those extracted from nature, but we must revivify them and make them "philosophic", they must retake their living photographic properties, i.e. aversion to sunlight. Patrice extracted these salts in saline form not in the fulvic and humic acids from the peaty soil, he made a glistening white menstrum that he took to metals to extract what he claimed their signature, it was a product very weak because he did observe the celestial agriculture nor hermetic doctrine in totality. Like Gerbant tells Mr. Metz...your agent solvent lacks virtue!

Remember the Cabala Mineralis:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/cabmin01.jpg


The mine of our mercury is our saltpetre not that of the vulgar.
Our sharp bitter vitriol is not that of the vulgar
Our ammoniac is not that of the vulgar


A contemporary, unknowingly got alchemical salt by his hard work by using earth foliage; called peaty soil, residue of plant decay, and he watered his earth with dew - evaporating - watering - mixing continuously for a thousand days: the result was not negative, because it was an alchemical salt that he eventually produced and, by adding gold dust to his composition, he arrived at a liquor of gold salts (as this salt alchemically attacks gold), but the ashes of its plants can be, depending on the location of their harvest, toxic or beneficial - hence uncertainty of results, especially regarding their curative use: potable gold does not manufacture as well.

Yes, I remember now....this was the way Patrice worked.....yes occasionally toxic, better to leave out the plant material all together. We only need a subject to represent each of all four elements and the purity will decide the potency as the spirit can only be attracted and live in pure substances.

solomon levi
03-27-2012, 11:38 PM
I pursued these two acids with great zeal when considering shilajit as a first matter...if you think about how shilajit is formed you will understand why it contains all those minerals, just like GCH says anima mundi tied to niter and salt trickles through the earth dissolving whatever ever it meets, we see the action in the alkahest of soil experiment he gives, I performed the experiment myself over the course of two weeks, it only requires a light sandy soil, it does make a stronger and stronger agent each time a distillation is performed dissolving what it couldn't before, nature works the same way generating acids and corroding agents as its trickles deeper and deeper dissolving those minerals they find as "trace"....... this makes it poisonous, especially when the rotted plant matter and animal runiment is thrown in but we don't need plant matter for this, but the soil experiment alone is tied to the application of the use of the four elements earth, fire, water and air in circulation...we can go forward in generating grosser and more corpreal and fixed subjects or we can go backward and create subtler and more spiritual volatile subjects...

I bought gallons of fulvic and humic acid for consumption, it was very expensive and had no good effect on me, and sorry but they don't dissolve gold....I waited months in vain...in fact I think I still have gold leaf sitting in fulvic acid, it has no action.

If anything of alchemical significance lies in this work I assure you its not in the fulvic and humic acids...you have to think more in line of the excerpt from Guasco's path that Androgynus gave......and just like in GCH and in that letter from Gerbant to Metz on Cyliani...azoth or anima mundi exists in the nitrogen and he says be sure nitrogen philsophers...that exists at the time of organic decomposition it resolves itself to ammonia spirit which condenses as an ammoniacal salt, this salt or spirt contains the living acid of nature, the other we get from niter also made philosophic...and we don't need plant matter to make these salts, its better urine, dew and gypsum as the matrix of the absorbed celestial currents and hermetic astral radiations.
In this regard just like GCH claims there is no difference between commerically percured salts and those extracted from nature, but we must revivify them and make them "philosophic", they must retake their living photographic properties, i.e. aversion to sunlight. Patrice extracted these salts in saline form not in the fulvic and humic acids from the peaty soil, he made a glistening white menstrum that he took to metals to extract what he claimed their signature, it was a product very weak because he did observe the celestial agriculture nor hermetic doctrine in totality. Like Gerbant tells Mr. Metz...your agent solvent lacks virtue!

Remember the Cabala Mineralis:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images/cabmin01.jpg





Yes, I remember now....this was the way Patrice worked.....yes occasionally toxic, better to leave out the plant material all together. We only need a subject to represent each of all four elements and the purity will decide the potency as the spirit can only be attracted and live in pure substances.

First, just to be clear, I don't mean to say that shilajit or the acids ARE the initial subject.
I just plug it in the equation and see what happens, how it adds up.

Yes, your first paragraph argues nothing against... the great work begins with a poison.

Second paragraph - I never said anything about humic or fulvic acids dissolving gold.
We are not looking for an acid alone as an alcahest. Acid is one part of the equation of
a volatile alkali - the essential oil/sulphur. See Starkey, etc. I would join it to a carbonate.

If you're going to consume these acids, I hope you alkalised them.

I'm not sure why you are mentioning toxicity. It is common knowledge that the toxic
becomes a medicine through alchemy, a circulatum. Why would anyone suggesting to
work on arsenic imagine the toxicity of plants is a problem?
Toxicity is not a measure in deciding alchemical subjects - it is unanimous that our subject
is at first a poison. If it is still a poison in later stages, then it's not finished - one has not worked
properly or not worked long enough. Every poison can be turned to medicine with circulatum.

If one works properly, that is, to make a heaven/circulatum, it is an easy thing
to make it stronger through distillation and to multiply and augment by rejoining to its
crude matter and distilling/circulating.
Whatever this guy identifies as "alchemical salt" must not be this if it was still toxic.
But it sounds more to me that he didn't know what he was talking about - it doesn't matter
if the ashes of plants are toxic or beneficial. When adequately joined to their sulphurs,
they make medicine, period. When that is circulated with mercury, they make heaven.

Who can dispute that? If that can be disputed, then alchemy doesn't exist.

Hence, there is as much alchemy in humic and fulvic acids as in any other.
Alchemy is not the subject - it is the art applied to any subject.
Work according to art and you will find a happy end.
In alchemy, the subject is reduced to its first matter - so why does it matter the subject?
Gold or silver are added after, towards the red and white.

You have not (even close) proved that a circulatum can't be had of fulvic and humic acids.
That would disprove alchemy. You are not working properly on them.
Why extract the acids from humus and discard the rest? How is that alchemy?
It's just an alkali extraction.

rogerc
03-28-2012, 01:07 AM
Solomon read well...the end result was toxic! Not the beginning...big difference... fulvic acid and humic acid can be extracted in pure form and non-toxic, this is what I drank it came from a health supply store, its when they are concentrated and added to metals that makes them toxic, they dissolve lesser heavy metals but not gold. Yes, I am an arsenic alchemist but I not an idiot, I am still alive. Heres my bumper sticker:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxLFlceJnb3Af5nm1YGaoZz33XMw6HZ BWn6fEfZgt95B_IGS-f

Apparently you can get mouse pads, bumper stickers, key chains and t-shirts...I didn't realize the club was this big: Link (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=arsenic+alchemist+approaching&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=562&wrapid=tlif133289693253610&safe=active&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=wWRyT9-SOeXPiAK3nv29AQ)


I'm not sure why you are mentioning toxicity. It is common knowledge that the toxic
becomes a medicine through alchemy, a circulatum. Why would anyone suggesting to
work on arsenic imagine the toxicity of plants is a problem?


Really did you look at my post #120 on A thought about Fulcanelli (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2727-A-thought-about-Fulcanelli/page12)thread:


I mentioned from an old chinese alchemy book the use of the king and queen of poisons, the king being mineral in realgar and the queen being a plant in aconite:


A tract from an old chinese alchemy book.....

A secret from Chinese alchemy
Take one pound of mercury, and put it in a crucible of the Six-and-One. Then take one pound of Imperial Man (realgar), pound it until it becomes powder-like, and cover the mercury with it. Then take one pound of Leftovers of the Food of Yu (hematite), pound it until it becomes powder-like, and cover the Imperial Man with it. Close the crucible with another crucible of the Six-and-One, seal the joints luting them with the Mud of the Six-and-One, and let it dry.


Place the crucible over a fire of horse manure or chaff for nine days and nine nights. Extinguish the fire, and place the crucible over a fire of charcoal for nine days and nine nights. Extinguish the fire, let the crucible cool for one day and open it. The Medicine will have entirely sublimated, and will adhere to the upper crucible. It will be similar to frost and snow. Brushing with a feather, collect it, and add to it equal quantities of Grease of Dragons, and of Celestial Male (aconite) from Mount Shaoshi.

After ingesting a speck of this elixir for thirty days, a chick will grow wings and become a flying immortal. The ten thousand gods will become your attendants and offer protection, and the Jade Women will be at your service. The divine immortals will welcome you, and you will rise to heaven. The hundred demons, the Gods of Soil and Grain (Sheji), the Count of the Wind (Fengbo), and the Master of Rain (Yushi) will welcome you, and you will have them at your service. For information contact us. These are golden elixirs of china. Chinese spiritual masters used these secretc formula long long ago. Alchemy begun in India much before any civilization can dare to think

Interesting isn't that the king and queen of poisons could join together to make an elixir of immortality.... of course they both go through 'samskaras' before they can be ingested




"samskaras" is a purification...yes it happens to be an alkalizing environment for realgar, but not in every case, every poison has an antagonist by which it is conquered chemically, so that its toxicity is taken away, this lets any alchemical virtue in it shine through that is if and I stress if, it is present.
For instance aconite is already a plant alkaloid how is alkalizing it going to take away its poison?:
Aconitine is a deadly alkaloid produced by Aconitum which readily causes respiratory paralysis. It is sometimes known as the queen of poisons; the king being arsenic


Beginning matters being poisonous by nature aside, my point is fulvic and humic acid bring nothing to the table in this path alchemically, it is in the salts that are extracted, one is made from the putrefaction of rotted vegatable matter in interaction with the air,.... it resolved itself to an ammoniacal salt, the other is had when the material is calcined it is the fixed alkali. The salts are dead when extracted improperly, with or without fulvic or humic acids(which accomplish nothing), they only make a chemical menstrum with no alchemcial virtue, the compounds formed when put to metals make heavy metals salts that are more or less toxic....understand? This is the way a puffer would go about opening a metal and extracting its "quintessence" thats why they always are poisoning themselves and others who buy their formulations. This is what I am saying if I wasn't clear enough.



You have not (even close) proved that a circulatum can't be had of fulvic and humic acids.


Sure I have, they don't act on gold alchemically, do the work yourself and see.

solomon levi
03-28-2012, 03:52 AM
You're the one who hasn't read carefully.
"A contemporary, unknowingly got alchemical salt by his hard work by using earth foliage; called peaty soil, residue of plant decay, and he watered his earth with dew - evaporating - watering - mixing continuously for a thousand days: the result was not negative, because it was an alchemical salt that he eventually produced and, by adding gold dust to his composition, he arrived at a liquor of gold salts (as this salt alchemically attacks gold), but the ashes of its plants can be, depending on the location of their harvest, toxic or beneficial - hence uncertainty of results, especially regarding their curative use: potable gold does not manufacture as well."

There is nothing definitive about toxicity. The author is speculating.

And your post doesn't refute anything I said.
You did not try to make a circulatum from the acids -
you said yourself, "the acids had no effect on gold."
You didn't say you combined the acids with their salts and they had no effect...
This shows you were not working with a circulatum.
You said you bought the acids.
Please don't twist everything to be right.
Don't argue things I am not arguing to appear right.
Please take the better path this time.
Anyone knows a circulatum can be made from any acid/sulphur combined with its salt.
You really want to say you've disproved this?

I have provided pictures here of my circulatum work.
You have never provided pictures of any work. You say, "I did this - it doesn't work", "I did this - it doesn't work"
As if people should not work on anything you have worked on because you are the final word, always working
perfectly with no errors...
You've never mentioned anything about working on circulatum, and suddenly you claim to have disproven it.
This is bs.

rogerc
03-28-2012, 05:10 AM
You're the one who hasn't read carefully.
"A contemporary, unknowingly got alchemical salt by his hard work by using earth foliage; called peaty soil, residue of plant decay, and he watered his earth with dew - evaporating - watering - mixing continuously for a thousand days: the result was not negative, because it was an alchemical salt that he eventually produced and, by adding gold dust to his composition, he arrived at a liquor of gold salts (as this salt alchemically attacks gold), but the ashes of its plants can be, depending on the location of their harvest, toxic or beneficial - hence uncertainty of results, especially regarding their curative use: potable gold does not manufacture as well."

There is nothing definitive about toxicity. The author is speculating.

And your post doesn't refute anything I said.
You did not try to make a circulatum from the acids -
you said yourself, "the acids had no effect on gold."
You didn't say you combined the acids with their salts and they had no effect...
This shows you were not working with a circulatum.
You said you bought the acids.
Please don't twist everything to be right.
Don't argue things I am not arguing to appear right.
Please take the better path this time.
Anyone knows a circulatum can be made from any acid/sulphur combined with its salt.
You really want to say you've disproved this?

I have provided pictures here of my circulatum work.
You have never provided pictures of any work. You say, "I did this - it doesn't work", "I did this - it doesn't work"
As if people should not work on anything you have worked on because you are the final word, always working
perfectly with no errors...
You've never mentioned anything about working on circulatum, and suddenly you claim to have disproven it.
This is bs.

Who said I was refuting anything.... I am making my point.... you are free to make yours.. The author who is Roger Guasco who you have already stated that you have not read, said the result was not negative because it was an alchemical salt, what did he say about fulvic and humic acid?...what did he say about a circulatum?, absolutely nothing....the key was in the salt, he wrote this paragraph Androgynus provided in his book :"The Dew Burns the salt" in his regimine of salt. Like I said..... read it, put it in context ......how can you argue about it if you haven't read it....Its obvious by Androgynus comment that he has read it, and he recognizes where the virtue in this product comes from.

Your funny...you can stop pretending to be an alchemist now...being a moderator at a so called alchemy forum doesn't make you an authority on anything...least of all alchemy......I got one question did any of your
"circulatums" dissolve gold, did they blacken it...lol.

On the subject of work you yourself stated you never finished anything you started so now you're an authority of "circulatums" Who's the master of bs...I think its your prima matera.

I don't provide pictures of my work cause I look at yours and I realize how stupid it is to show a picture of a colored liquid in a mason jar...it proves absolutely nothing.

At any rate no one is saying anything about a "circulatum" except you, what is being claimed here albiet not by Pierre...all you guys are just assuming he is talking about fulvic and humic acids..... I doubt it.

You are the guy that always twists things to seem right .....first it was fulvic and humic acid and now its a circulatum involving the salts....trophic dynamism again...huh...I think I bout to hurl :eek:. Uh oh...do the banning threats come next? Any time we disagree the personal attacks start flowing.... I think I need a change, the best times for this forum are when the library is closed. This is good I am really P.O.ed now.

solomon levi
03-28-2012, 09:47 AM
Who said I was refuting anything.... I am making my point.... you are free to make yours.. The author who is Roger Guasco who you have already stated that you have not read, said the result was not negative because it was an alchemical salt, what did he say about fulvic and humic acid?...what did he say about a circulatum?, absolutely nothing....the key was in the salt, he wrote this paragraph Androgynus provided in his book :"The Dew Burns the salt" in his regimine of salt. Like I said..... read it, put it in context ......how can you argue about it if you haven't read it....Its obvious by Androgynus comment that he has read it, and he recognizes where the virtue in this product comes from.

Your funny...you can stop pretending to be an alchemist now...being a moderator at a so called alchemy forum doesn't make you an authority on anything...least of all alchemy......I got one question did any of your
"circulatums" dissolve gold, did they blacken it...lol.

On the subject of work you yourself stated you never finished anything you started so now you're an authority of "circulatums" Who's the master of bs...I think its your prima matera.

I don't provide pictures of my work cause I look at yours and I realize how stupid it is to show a picture of a colored liquid in a mason jar...it proves absolutely nothing.

At any rate no one is saying anything about a "circulatum" except you, what is being claimed here albiet not by Pierre...all you guys are just assuming he is talking about fulvic and humic acids..... I doubt it.

You are the guy that always twists things to seem right .....first it was fulvic and humic acid and now its a circulatum involving the salts....trophic dynamism again...huh...I think I bout to hurl :eek:. Uh oh...do the banning threats come next? Any time we disagree the personal attacks start flowing.... I think I need a change, the best times for this forum are when the library is closed. This is good I am really P.O.ed now.


Maybe we'll talk some other time.

Pleroma
03-31-2012, 03:42 AM
we see the action in the alkahest of soil experiment he gives, I performed the experiment myself over the course of two weeks, it only requires a light sandy soil, it does make a stronger and stronger agent each time a distillation is performed dissolving what it couldn't before, nature works the same way generating acids and corroding agents as its trickles deeper and deeper dissolving those minerals they find as "trace".

roger.
where did you read the experiment from? in GCH? what page.

Pleroma
03-31-2012, 06:50 AM
Hey roger, i remember you posted something about urine, and some nice salt looking crystals appeared...how exactly did you get those?

pierre
03-31-2012, 10:50 AM
Hey roger, i remember you posted something about urine, and some nice salt looking crystals appeared...how exactly did you get those?

Hello pleroma, that picture you use as your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury. Did you know that?
It is said that the model is Madame Erlanger ...

Andro
03-31-2012, 11:07 AM
your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury.

FINALLY back to the original topic! (Pierre's suggested Gold & Mercury Path)

I think most latter posts here belong elsewhere, at least conceptually (mostly in the Celestial Agriculture Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture) IMO), but they got so intertwined that it will make a bigger mess to move them than to leave them where they are :)

Please, everyone (myself included), let's respect Pierre's original thread intent and stay on topic from now on.

Imagine yourselves standing in the shoes of a novice/newcomer here - We are sometimes unintentionally making orientation SO difficult by spreading out and digressing like that.

It can be difficult and confusing enough as it is...

Maybe we should try to come up with thread titles that sound a bit less 'presumptuous'...

Maybe (for this thread) a title like 'The Path of Metallic Gold & Mercury' would be creating less orientation problems than 'The real secret of the work is'...

Yes, I know, all threads/paths/arts/sciences (eventually and inevitably :)) merge into One - but for now... you know what I mean.

Thank you, and much appreciated.

Pleroma
03-31-2012, 04:13 PM
Hello pleroma, that picture you use as your avatar is a picture of julien champagne on the path of the gold in solution with mercury. Did you know that?
It is said that the model is Madame Erlanger ...

hi,
no i did not know that. i just found it online.

pierre
03-31-2012, 07:53 PM
FINALLY back to the original topic! (Pierre's suggested Gold & Mercury Path)

I think most latter posts here belong elsewhere, at least conceptually (mostly in the Celestial Agriculture Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture) IMO), but they got so intertwined that it will make a bigger mess to move them than to leave them where they are :)

Please, everyone (myself included), let's respect Pierre's original thread intent and stay on topic from now on.

Imagine yourselves standing in the shoes of a novice/newcomer here - We are sometimes unintentionally making orientation SO difficult by spreading out and digressing like that.

It can be difficult and confusing enough as it is...

Yes, I know, all threads/paths/arts/sciences (eventually and inevitably :)) merge into One - but for now... you know what I mean.

Thank you, and much appreciated.

I apologize for the mess of thematic of this post, androgynus ...

One of the great controversies of this pathway, is whether the materials should be prepared in some special way. If the Gold and Mercury should be used raw, volatilized, or native. Canseliet himself, fell into the trap and recognizes that not successful in the experiment. You can read about this in his book. Many teachers throughout time have not agreed on this point, apparently. But a judicious reading of the texts, should be sufficient to clarify this specific point, which is where most fail, when moving to work, without achieving positive results.
Regards.

True Initiate
03-31-2012, 07:58 PM
Would be a problem to quote this portion of text from Canseliet in French?

I am willing to translate it into English for all to read...

pierre
03-31-2012, 08:23 PM
Would be a problem to quote this portion of text from Canseliet in French?

I am willing to translate it into English for all to read...

That's fine for me...

Hellin Hermetist
03-31-2012, 08:38 PM
I apologize for the mess of thematic of this post, androgynus ...

One of the great controversies of this pathway, is whether the materials should be prepared in some special way. If the Gold and Mercury should be used raw, volatilized, or native. Canseliet himself, fell into the trap and recognizes that not successful in the experiment. You can read about this in his book. Many teachers throughout time have not agreed on this point, apparently. But a judicious reading of the texts, should be sufficient to clarify this specific point, which is where most fail, when moving to work, without achieving positive results.
Regards.

We dont have to make any special purificaton at mercury with the help of salts or other things but keep it under its raw metallic form. But did you have any success with that path?

True Initiate
03-31-2012, 09:24 PM
I ment can you or somebody else scan or copy and paste this excerpt from Canseliet so that i can translate it into English.

pierre
03-31-2012, 09:30 PM
We dont have to make any special purificaton at mercury with the help of salts or other things but keep it under its raw metallic form. But did you have any success with that path?

I show here one of many opinions, in this case Bacher, on the subject in question:
"It differs, however, virgin mercury from the common, which amalgamated with gold, the virgin mercury, and put on fire, rises all with mercury, which the common can not do".
Arnaldo de Villanova: "The preparation made ​​by sublimation of mercury is the most excellent, and so, after the revivification, is carried out better and more easily, the amalgamation".
Filaleteo: According to the philosophers, we should imitate nature. If therefore the menstruum was dry, the solution would be expected in vain.
As you see, Hellin, there is much to discuss on this topic ..., yet!

And regarding your question, I'm still working on it...

pierre
03-31-2012, 09:32 PM
I ment can you or somebody else scan or copy and paste this excerpt from Canseliet so that i can translate it into English.

I have only the Spanish version.

True Initiate
03-31-2012, 09:53 PM
Spanish is fine too!

pierre
03-31-2012, 09:57 PM
Spanish is fine too!
Ok.
Your flag has a sun in the middle and broken chains noise? :cool:

pierre
03-31-2012, 10:23 PM
Ok.
Your flag has a sun in the middle and broken chains noise? :cool:

I send you the excerpt from Canseliet...
I try to send it by mail, but the text is too long.

Here it goes:

Cuando Filaleteo precisa que hay que preparar primero el mercurio, el estudiante puede comprender que sea en este nuevo
estado, en el que el primero de los tres principios no puede ser encontrado sobre la tierra —non potest reperiri super terram.
Tanto más cuanto que en el informe del filósofo inglés, aprendemos que es así por las singulares razones notadas por los
adeptos —ob singulares rationes notas Adeptis— debemos reproducir el pasaje que se muestra bien como la neta y breve
definición de la vía húmeda y larga, con razón o sin ella, reputada de sofista por un número de artistas:
58
Con este mercurio amalgamamos perfectamente el oro puro, purgado hasta el más alto grado de pureza, en limaduras o en
laminillas, y, encerrado en el vidrio, lo cocemos continuamente. El oro se disuelve por la virtud de nuestra agua, y vuelve de
nuevo a su más próxima materia, en la cual la vida aprisionada del oro deviene libre, y él recibe la vida del Mercurio
disolvente que es, con respecto al oro, lo que es una buena tierra con respecto al grano de trigo.
In Mercurio hoc aurum purum, purgatum ad summum puritatis gradum, limitum, aut lamellatum amalgamamos optimè, & in
vitro inclusum assiduè coquimus: Aurum virtute aquae nostrae dissolvitur; reditque ad proximam suam materiam, in quâ vita
auri inclusa fit libera, & suscipit vital dissolventis Mercurii, qui est respectu auri idem, quod terra bona, respectu grani
tritici[53].
Después de esta afirmación, cuán inclinado se encontrará el discípulo de Ciencia a comprender que Filaleteo mismo haya
entendido el mercurio fluido que se vendía libremente, en los boticarios de su propia época. Si el ciudadano del mundo —
cosmopolita— según su propio vocablo, no suministra, sin embargo, ni el conjunto, ni el detalle de su dispositivo, al menos es
fácil imaginarlo y sucintamente resumirlo.
El mercurio de esa suerte sembrado, es decir, por amalgamación, es introducido en un matraz de panza ovoide o esférica, de
vidrio de buen espesor, y cerrado inmediatamente a continuación con un luten sólido, si es que no con el soplete. A
continuación la cocción de la amalgama es regulada y mantenida sin desfallecer, durante numerosos meses y siempre por
debajo de la temperatura de ebullición.
Lo que precede y que el estudiante acaba de leer, es rigurosamente lo que hicimos, hace cuarenta años, movidos como
estábamos ya por las virtudes necesarias, a saber: la fe, la consciencia, la paciencia y la perseverancia. En lo físico, como en
lo moral, fue considerable el esfuerzo, el cual nos puso en presencia del más extraordinario panorama de sucesivas y
maravillosas formas coloreadas.
La fotografía policroma, no hace falta decirlo, no era todavía practicada, lo que habría suprimido todo el esfuerzo que nos
tomamos para fijar, en la acuarela, estas numerosas fases, sobre el papel de acuarela. Ellas se instalaban ante nuestros
ojos, algunas veces singularmente multicolores, por una duración variable pero siempre bastante larga.
Habíamos procedido primero a la mundificación del mercurio, por el método ordinario de la destilación, en estas cornudas o
retortas de gres, hoy en día completamente inencontrables.
En cuanto al oro, a fin de que estuviésemos seguros de su total pureza, lo habíamos sometido a la prueba del plomo y de la
copela, y habíamos a continuación confeccionado con él un tricloruro, disolviéndolo, por pequeños fragmentos, en el agua
regia. Habíamos evaporado dulcemente al baño de arena, y después, al baño María, habíamos desembarazado a nuestros
cristales del hidrato superfluo.
El metal precipitado en su solución, es decir, reducido de su cloruro, se ofrece en polvo fino que, bien lavado, es sumamente
propicio a la amalgamación.
Por lo demás, si algún día se presentase la posibilidad, de que retomásemos la experiencia, pese a todo apasionante,
utilizaríamos la solución roja de oro coloidal, de la que todo buen químico sabe cuánto puede hacer variar el color el incidente
más ínfimo e imprevisible.
¿No sería ahí, en el fondo, que pueda encontrarse el origen secreto de esta cal, de carácter dinámico, que ciertos artistas
preparaban por calcinación del oro, con vistas a la solución más íntima del metal solar, en el mercurio o azogue?
¿Conviene acaso pensar que este kaleidoscopio en colores de la vía del matraz de vidrio, haya sido debido a la intensa vida
de un oro reincrudado?
Sea lo que haya sido exactamente, estas imágenes de linterna mágica, en su desarrollo a la vez lento y coloreado,
permanecen muy misteriosas y, digámoslo, apasionantes.
En verdad, no es preciso reconocer, que esta larga sucesión de planos sombríos o brillantes, si había parecido responder a
la transformación de la amalgama en el interior, no había entrañado en modo alguno su mejora, de forma sorprendente e
inmediatamente visible o controlable. Por lo demás, estábamos muy lejos del estado sublime al que era nuestro designio que
fuese elevado el compost.
Nuestra serie de imágenes pintadas con amor, por desgracia, se perdió en el curso de la debacle de 1940, con numerosos
otros documentos.
Ciertas, no obstante, reviven en nuestra copia del Preciosísimo Don de Dios, que fue salvada por milagro. Y son bien estas
figuras las que nos conducen a creer que Jorge Aurach mantuvo, antes que nosotros, la interminable cocción de la que
hemos hablado en Alquimia. Transportó de ella, él también, o hizo transportar de ella, sobre el papel, los diferentes cuadros
del espectáculo en colores ofrecidos por la amalgama y admirado por el alquimista, a través del vidrio del recipiente.
Evidentemente, la sucesión de estas doce imágenes es mucho menos numerosa que la nuestra que reunía de ella cuarenta
y ocho en total. Los paisajes apropiados con los que rodeamos los gigantescos matraces de Jorge Aurach, en la copia, por
nosotros caligrafiada, dibujada y pintada, no recreaban las figuras del antiguo manuscrito que nos sirvió de modelo.
Somos nosotros quienes compusimos los decorados, en armonía de lugar, de suelo, de estación, incluso de latitud, con las
fases simbólicamente traducidas, en sus matraces transparentes, por el alquimista de Estrasburgo.
El epíteto que hemos subrayado y del que nuestro Maestro, no sin algunos rodeos ligeramente «especiosos», suministra la
explicación, dispersada aquí y allá en sus dos obras; este epíteto significa «vuelto a colocar en el estado muy próximo al
origen». Filaleteo lo dice, lo hemos visto, y lo vuelve a decir un poco más adelante:
Pero aquél que no ha preparado convenientemente su Mercurio, aunque hubiese unido el oro con aquél, su oro sigue siendo
hasta entonces el oro del vulgo, dado que es unido a un tal agente insípido, en el que permanece incambiado, como si
permaneciese en un cofre.
59
Qui verò Mercurium suum non retè pararit, etsi cum eo aurum junxerit, ejus aurum adhuc est aurum vulgi, utpote quod cum
tali agente fatuo jungitur, in quo aeque impermutatum manet, hac si in arcâ maneret[54].
Además, precisa pues e inmediatamente a continuación:
Ciertamente nuestro Mercurio es un alma viviente y vivificante, y por ello nuestro Oro es espermático, igual que el trigo
sembrado es una simiente, mientras que este mismo trigo, en un granero de cosecha, permanecería candeal y muerto.
Noster verò Mercurius est anima vivens et vivificans, ideoque aurum nostrum est spermaticum, sicut triticum satum est
sementum, cum idem triticum in horreo annona, sive frumentum maneat, mortuumque.
Que nuestro Mercurio sea un alma y que nuestro Oro sea espermático, además del posesivo, he ahí bien que revela, sin
embargo, otro sentido que la muy innegable calidad del Adepto, adquirida por el autor, nos obligaba a señalar.
En la ocurrencia el Cosmopolita, para quien la diferencia es grande, entre el oro y la plata comunes y aquellos de los que
afirma que son vivos, nos dispensa de toda explicación:
Mas advierte esto, que no tomes el oro y la plata del vulgo, pues éstos están muertos; toman los nuestros que están vivos.
Sed hoc abmonitus sis, ne accipias aurum & argentum vulgo, nam haec sunt mortua, accipe nostra quae sunt viva[55].
Pese a su aplicación más o menos constante en cambiar al discípulo a la vía larga, Filaleteo no escapó a la necesidad de
hacer aparecer la diferencia entre los dos oros:
Pero nuestro Oro no puede ser comprado al precio de la moneda, aunque para él, quisieses dar una corona o un reino. Es,
en efecto, un don de Dios. Pues nuestro Oro no es para llegar perfecto entre nuestras manos (al menos comúnmente) pues
para que sea el nuestro, tiene necesidad de nuestro arte.
Aurum verò nostrum pecuniae pretio emi nequit, quamvis pro eo coronam vel regnum dare velles; est enim donum Dei.
Aurum enim nostrum ad manus nostras perfectum (saltem vulgò) non est habendum, quia ut nostrum sit, nostrâ opus est arte.
Limojon de Saint-Didier es formal y francamente categórico en esta sola frase:
«Pero el sabio puede hacerla mucho más fácilmente con el oro de los Filósofos que con el oro vulgar»[56]
A buen seguro, hacer la Medicina Universal, es decir la Piedra Filosofal, con la ayuda del oro de los Filósofos, que es este
primer oro, calificado de astral, por el autor del Triunfo, y «cuyo centro está en el sol». Es él, este rayo que penetra en el vaso
de Etteilla, como lo vemos sobre el frontispicio del pequeño tratado de Los Siete Matices de la Obra, sobre este lindo
grabado del que hemos dado la reproducción, en nuestro volumen de Alquimia.

True Initiate
04-01-2012, 09:19 AM
Ok, the readable version is finished.

When Philalethes states that we must first prepare the mercury, the student can understand that it in this new
state, in which the first of the three principles can not be found on earth-non potest reperiri super terram.

The more so from the report of the English philosopher, we learn that is by the unique reasons noted by the
adept-ob-singular rationes Adeptis notes we play the passage which is displayed either as the net and brief
definition of the wet and long, rightly or wrongly, reputed sophist by a number of artists:
58
With this mercury amalgamate perfectly pure gold, purged to the highest degree of purity, takr filings or
lamellae, and enclosed it in glass, boil continuously. The gold will be dissolved by virtue of our water, and returns
back to your nearest area in which the imprisoned life of gold becomes free, and he receives the life of the Mercury
solvent that is, with respect to gold, which is a good ground with respect to the grain of wheat.
Mercury In aurum purum hoc, ad summum purgatum puritatis gradum, libitum, aut lamellatum amalgamamos optime, & in
inclusum vitro assidue coquimus: Aurum virtute nostrae dissolvitur aquae; reditque ad proximam suam materiam, in quâ vita
inclusa atrial free fit, & suscipit vital dissolventis Mercurii, qui est atrial respectu idem quod bona terra, respectu grani
tritici [53].

After this statement, how inclined will find the disciple of science to understand that Philalethes himself has
understood the fluid mercury freely sold in the apothecaries of his own time. If the citizen of the world -
cosmopolitan as its own word, does not provide, however, neither the whole nor the details of your device, at least it
easy to imagine and briefly summarize it.
Mercury from the sort sown, ie by amalgamation, is introduced into a flask belly ovoid or spherical,
glass of good thickness, and then immediately closed with a solid luten, if not with the torch. A
then firing the amalgam is regulated and maintained without fail, over many months and always
below the boiling temperature.

The above and the student just read, is strictly what we did forty years ago, moved as
and the virtues were necessary, namely, faith, awareness, patience and perseverance. Physically, as in
moral, was considerable effort, which put us in the presence of the most extraordinary panorama of successive
wonderful colored forms.

The photograph polychrome, needless to say, was not yet practiced, which would have removed all the effort that we
take to fix, in watercolor, these numerous phases, on watercolor paper. They were installed at our
eyes, sometimes singularly colored by a variable length but still quite long.
We proceeded first to the mundificación of mercury, by the ordinary method of distillation, these horned or
stoneware retorts, completely impossible to find today.

As for gold, so that were sure of its total purity, we tested for lead and
cup, and then we made him a trichloride, dissolving, by small fragments, Aqua
regia. We gently evaporated in a sand bath, and then water bath, we rid our
hydrate crystals superfluous.
The metal precipitated in solution, ie, reduced from its chloride, is available in fine powder, washed, is extremely
conducive for amalgamation.

Otherwise, if ever submit the possibility that we would use the red solution of colloidal gold, which every good chemist knows how color can vary the incident
more paltry and unpredictable.
Would not it be there in the background, you can find the secret origin of the lime, dynamic, certain artists
prepared by calcination of gold, with a view to the most intimate of solar metal in mercury or quicksilver?

Should maybe think that this kaleidoscope of color through the glass flask, was due to the intense
reincrudado a gold?
Whatever it was exactly these images of magic lantern, where development both slow and colored
remain very mysterious and, shall we say, exciting.
Indeed, it is necessary to recognize that this long succession of flat dark or bright, if it had seemed to respond to
transforming the amalgam on the inside, had not resulted in any way improvement, surprisingly and
immediately visible or controllable. Moreover, we were very far from the sublime state that was our plan that
compost was high.
Our series of pictures painted with love, unfortunately, was lost during the debacle of 1940, with numerous
other documents.
Some, however, revived in our copy of the Precious Gift of God, which was saved by a miracle. And these are well
figures that lead us to believe that George Aurach kept before us, the endless cooking which
we discussed in Alchemy. He carried her, he too, or had carried it, on paper, the various tables
spectacle of color offered by the amalgamation and admired by the alchemist, through the glass container.
Obviously, the sequence of these twelve images is much less numerous than ours that it met forty
and eight in total. Appropriate landscapes with which we surround the giant Jorge Aurach flasks in the copy,
we calligraphy, drawn and painted, not recreating the figures of ancient manuscript that served as model.
We who wrote it sets, in harmony of place, soil, season, including latitude, with the
translated symbolically stages in their flasks transparent, the alchemist of Strasbourg.
The epithet we have outlined and our Master, not without some detours slightly "specious", provides the
explanation, scattered here and there in his two works, this epithet means "put back in the state very close to
origin. " Philalethes says, we have seen, and again a little later to say:
But he has not properly prepared your Mercury, but had joined the gold with him, his gold remains
until then the gold of the masses, since it is joined to an agent such tasteless, which remains unchanged, as if
remain in a chest.
59
Qui non vero Mercurium suum challenged pararit, cum eo etsi junxerit aurum, aurum ejus adhuc vulgi aurum est, quod cum utpote
tali jungitur fatuous agent, in quo aeque impermutatum manet, if in ark maneret hac [54].

Furthermore, accurate and immediately as follows:
Certainly our Mercury is a living soul and life-giving, and therefore our Gold is sperm, like wheat
planted a seed, while the same wheat crop in a barn, would remain, wheat and dead.
Mercurius vero Noster vivens et est encourages vivificans, aurum nostrum ideoque spermaticum est, est Satum sicut Triticum
sementum, cum in idem Triticum horreo annona, sive frumentum maneat, mortuumque.
Mercury is our soul and our sperm Gold is also the possessive, behold rather than reveals,
But another undeniable sense that the very quality of the Adept, acquired by the author, we were forced to point out.
In the cosmopolitan occurrence, for whom the difference is large, between gold and silver common and those who
states that are alive, we dispensed of any explanation:
But observe this, you do not take the gold and silver of the vulgar, for they are dead, take our people who are alive.
Be abmonitus hoc system, ne accipias aurum & argentum vulgar, HAEC sunt mortua nam, Accipe nostra sunt quae alive [55].
Despite its more or less constant application to change the disciple to the long route, Philalethes not escape the need for
bring up the difference between the two golds:
But our Gold can not be purchased at the price of money, but for him, you would want to give a crown or kingdom. Is,
in fact, a gift from God. For our Gold is not to get perfect in our hands (at least usually) because
to be ours, needs of our art.
Aurum Nostrum vero pecuniae pretio nequit emission, pro eo quamvis coronam regnum dare velles level, Donum Dei est enim.
Aurum Manus enim ad nostrum nostras perfectum (saltem vulgar) habendum non est, quia sit ut nostrum, nostra est opus art.
Saint-Didier Limojon is formal and categorical frankly in this single sentence:
"But the wise can make it much more easily with the gold of the Philosophers that vulgar gold '[56]
Surely, to the Universal Medicine, that is the Philosopher's Stone, with the help of gold of the Philosophers, which is this
first gold, astral described by the author of Triumph, and "whose center is the sun." It is he, this beam that penetrates the glass
Etteilla, as seen on the frontispiece of the little treatise of the Seven Shades of the work on this cute
that we have recorded the play, in our volume of Alchemy.

Hellin Hermetist
04-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Arnaldo de Villanova: "The preparation made ​​by sublimation of mercury is the most excellent, and so, after the revivification, is carried out better and more easily, the amalgamation".


Here is what Bernard of Tresne has to say about that matter. From his epistle at Thomas of Bononia:

"Wherefore, excellent Doctor, false and vain is all their doctrine, which altereth Mercury, which is the Seed, before the Metallick species be joyned with it: For if it be dryed up, it dissolves not. What then can it do in the solution of things of its own species? For if it be heated beyond its natural digestion, it will not cause nor
generate in the Metalline species a Feverish heat as it were, and will impertinently turn cold into hot, and passive into active; and the errour from thence will be incorrigible, and labour lost."

"Besides, my Honoured Doctor, that I may lightly touch on the remaining Heads of your Epistle, you must
diligently and wisely observe, that Fire and Azor, wash Laton: But Azor is not raw Quick-silver simply extracted out of the Mine, but it is that which is extracted by Quick-silver it self, out of the dissolved Bodies; which is found to be more ripe upon tryal."

"For so soon as Mercury is throughly changed from his first Nature, so soon he is forbidden entrance into our Philosophick Work, because he hath lost his Spermatick and Metallick Nature."

"Wherefore in reading Philosophick Books, consider especially the possibility of Nature; notwithstanding some writers of this Art have also sometimes erred, and have happened sometimes to have handled it, as to the natural truth either ill or ambiguously. As it may be observed that Arnoldus de Villa Nova hath said, in a
Book which he called his Rosary, that raw Mercury, that is, Quick-silver, which in its own nature is cold and moist, by Sublimation may be made hot and dry; afterwards being revived, it becomes hot and moist like the complexion of Man. You will say then, what wonder it is if it be joyned with the Sun, that it likewise becomes of the nature of the Sun? For Mercury is of a convertible nature, as the Heavenly Mercury, which is such as the Planet is with which it is in Conjunction. For that Arnoldus, though in other Sciences he were a Reverend and Ingenious Doctor, yet in this Art he handled Experiments only, without the learning of the Causes. Now when he saith, that in the first Sublimation the crude Spirit is sublimed from the inferiour salt Minerals, and that Mercury it self, which in its own nature is cold and moist, becomes a Powder of an hot and dry nature, as he saith, this yet conduces nothing to our Work. But let it be so, that he makes of Mercury such a Powder as he speaks of, that is, thoroughly dried and hot by sublimation from Salts; yet these Purifications are vain and impertinent to our Work, yea as to the perfecting of our Work they are hurtful. For though these inferiour Minerals communicate with Metals in their nature, yet not in kind and proportion: For the superiour and inferiour Minerals, in their nativity and subterraneous formation, are
of one and the same constitution universally, and therefore of the same nature; but they differ in proportion, quality, and kind or form. Wherefore if Mercury be distilled with those inferiour Minerals, and throughly dried, then his internal nature is confounded and disproportioned, and is hindred and made unprofitalbe, as to the effect of a Feminine Seed, and invalid for our Metallick Work. For so soon as he is turned into the form of a Powder, (except from his Body of Sol or Luna) so soon he undergoes a thorough driness, unprofitable to the Philosophick Work. Yet I deny not, but that a drosse and impure Mercury may and ought, by a simple Salt, be sublimed or purged once or oftner, according to a due Philosophick experience, to take from it its dross and outward Mineral impurity, so that notwithstanding the fluidity and radical humidity of Mercury may always remain unaltered: For the Mercurial kind and form in such a Work, ought to remain uncorrupted, as hath been said already. Nor ought its outward from to be reduced into a thoroughly dried Powder; because its external form being corrupted, shews its internal nature to be confounded, unless it be in the way of generation that it be altered, as may be manifestly seen in the signs which appear in
the Work of the natural way. For there are Sublimations of Mercury from its own proper Bodies, which are conjoyned and mingled with it, by an Amalgamation which it in its most inward parts, from which being oftentimes raised and reunited, it rejects and loses its superfluities, and is not confounded in its nature; and afterwards it is very agreeable to the Philosophick Work, and powerful to dissolve Metallick species; yet it
is not greatly altered intrinsically for the Philosophick Work, unless it be altered by fixed Bodies dissolved in it. But wonderful things may be done in Medicines for Sensitives from this dried Powder, whether it be reduced into an Oyl, or into Water, or it abide in a Powder; but it is not at all pertinent to the Philosophick Experiment. And therefore it must be universally noted, that so soon as Mercury is turned into a Powder, of whatever sort, contrary to the nature of its Body to be dissolved, so soon will it be unprofitable to the Philosophick Work."

After that we can discuss the opinion of Philalethes about the subject and even the works of Isaac Newton in that path.

rogerc
04-02-2012, 07:07 AM
So.....at any rate...leaving the way of peats...and returning to the intended subject matter that Pierre seems to be refering to here (the treatment of vulgar mercury with a salt/saline mercurial solvent extracted from a black matter) we find others like the author of this book: LESSONS IN THE UNFOLDMENT OF THE PHILOSOPHER'S STONE who gives quotes and ideas like this:

"The Fire of the sages may be extracted from all natural things, and is called the Quintessence. It is of earth, water, air, and fire." This is rather vague. Nundinus says: "The Fire which includes all our chemical processes is three-fold: the fiery element of the air, of water, and of the earth. This is ALL our magistery requires." Here we get a much closer view of the matter. We see that if we have the Philosophers' Fire, we really have ALL that is necessary. Let us search on. Bondinus, another sage, says: "Our Stone is Fire, and has been generated in Fire, without, however, being consumed by Fire." This gets more and more interesting. What is it that could be made by Fire, and yet not be destroyed by Fire? This is the fabled "Salamander," which is said to "live in the fire, which imparts to it a glorious hue."


The author of the "Glory of the World" says: "Take Fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God himself burn by divine love." This statement seems to be the plainest of all. The Fire is declared to be the "vital fire of all trees," thus indicating its origin, and it then only remains for us to learn the principle and method of its extraction.
In this fire, they say, purify Mercury, and mortify it for the purposes of our Art. The Mercury which lies "hidden in this water," or Fire, is therein FIXED OF ITSELF. Now we are getting towards the Light! We are plainly told that the Fire IS a kind of Water (remember, alchemists "burn with Water"), and in this very Fire-Water, Mercury itself becomes decomposed, clarified, coagulated and fixed with indelible, living DIVINE FIRE, of that kind which God has placed in the Sun itself.



"Fire placed in the Stone," says d'Espagnet, "is Nature's Prince, Sol's sons and Vicar, moving and digesting matter and perfecting all things therein. Nature useth fire, so also doth Art after its example, as an Instrument and Mallet in cutting out its works. Fire is Master and Perfector, wherefore the knowledge of Fire is most necessary for a Philosopher


By this apparently frank statement, Valentine has probably been the means of throwing thousands off the right scent. He goes on to say: "The fire of a spirit lamp is useless for our purpose, nor is there any profit in 'horse-dung,' nor in the other kinds of heat in the providing of which so much expense is incurred. Neither do we want many kinds of furnaces. Only our three-fold furnace affords facilities for properly regulating the heat of the fire. Our furnace is cheap, our fire is cheap, and our material is cheap. He who has the material will ALSO find a furnace in which to prepare it, just as he who has flour will not be at a loss for an oven in which it may be baked." The simile here is not quite accurate, for the oven is NOT the flour, while the material DOES constitute the furnace of the Philosophers. This is the very thing Valentine is trying to convey to you, at the same time that he is deceiving the millions who are not quick-witted enough to pick him up. In the statement he has actually named the subject of the art, but has done it so adroitly that hardly any one will be able to discover it.
Ethelius says: "When the moist and the dry have been separated, the dry lies at the bottom and is called 'our Stone.' It is as black as a raven. It must be subjected to the COCTION OF OUR WATER." This shows plainly enough that the heat of Fire is in the WATER ITSELF, does it not. He says: "It must be separated from it until it loses its blackness and becomes white as dazzling marble. Then is THIS the Mystic Stone, which by coction has been transmuted into fixed Mercury, and this with the blessing of God




All through the Bible allusions are made to this rejected "Stone." Moses in his Song alludes to it. Job speaks of it. Also David, Solomon, Isaiah and Zechariah. It is also mentioned by the apostles in the New Testament, who in some vague, mysterious way, connect the Stone with Christ and his appearing.
Even the Mohammedans preserve a record of the tradition in Heliogablus (the Sun-Moon), a Black Stone which hangs suspended in the mosque at Mecca. The tradition is that this Stone fell from heaven in the desert of Arabia, and was found by Mohammed, who brought it to Mecca, where it has since remained, an object of awe and reverence.
We ourselves spent many years, wandering in many places, to find out the meaning of this strange legend, feeling that it must be a key to deeper mysteries, and at last we unearthed it in conversation with the spirit of a very old and learned Arab, who informed us that the Black Stone was originally formed of the interior essence of the leaves of the palm, with other leaves and grasses, which is why it was called by the singular name, "Heliogabalus," or "Sun-Moon stone," these things growing and thriving under influence of the heavenly luminaries.
How it became reduced to the form of a Black Stone was a very great mystery, which could be solved only by the two sole inhabitants of the desert, the camel and its rider. First the camel ate the vegetation, which in its series of stomachs passed through a peculiar chemical transformation or reduction, into the form of a stone. The virtue of this stone was revealed to Mohammed in a dream, wherein the Angel of the Lord descended, and, taking a piece of this Stone, burned it upon live coals until it became outwardly black, but interiorly resplendently white. Whereupon Mohammed rejoiced exceedingly, realizing that he held within his possession the Pearl of Greatest Price. Afterwards this discovery became the chief source of wealth to the Mohammedans, so that really it is little wonder that they still revere Heliogabalus, and look to it as a source of miraculous endowment, refusing to disturb the gold of the mines, which is believed to belong to Mohammed, and will be claimed by him on his return to earth.
The significance of this Stone is as utterly lost to the modern Muslim as to the modern Christian, both of whom have buried the true doctrine of the Stone in the rubbish of religious personalizations, itself a form of the grossest idolatry, although the devotees of either sect pride themselves upon being the only "true worshippers."


...whose views we don't share entirely but we can see the reasons however misguided in a similar line of thought, that the author seems to think our black and vile stinking, despised matter is camel dung or dung in general as is evidenced by these last two quotes from his book, of course like other puffers he thinks Valentine gives away the matter and then tries to throw us off by saying its not horse dung, which the author obviously believes it is...for my part when Valentine speaks thus:
"The fire of a spirit lamp is useless for our purpose, nor is there any profit in 'horse-dung,' nor in the other kinds of heat in the providing of which so much expense is incurred. Neither do we want many kinds of furnaces. Only our three-fold furnace affords facilities for properly regulating the heat of the fire. Our furnace is cheap, our fire is cheap, and our material is cheap. He who has the material will ALSO find a furnace in which to prepare it, just as he who has flour will not be at a loss for an oven in which it may be baked." I know that he is speaking of limestone and the quicklime of the sages,which is the proper way to think in terms of this quote the author also provides:
"Glory of the World" says: "Take Fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God himself burn by divine love." in which quote the author cleverly reveals the two roots, the white sulfur which is indeed extracted from burnt oak or palm leaves(myriams dry arid herb) united with the humid lime like Myriam says is the root of the art:
"And know Aros that the two aformentioned fumes are the roots of this art, and they are the white sulfur and the humid lime"

From the Twelve Keys:
Now I will also give my Opinion respecting the Salt of the Sages
The effect of "salt" is to fix or volatilize, according as it is prepared and used. For the spirit of the salt of
tartar, if extracted by itself without any addition, has power to render all metals volatile by dissolution and
putrefaction, and to dissolve quick or liquid silver into the true mercury, as my practical directions shew.
Salt of tartar by itself is a powerful fixative, particularly if the heat of quicklime be incorporated with it. For
these two substances are singularly efficacious in producing fixation

In the same way, the vegetable salt of wine fixes and volatilizes according to the manner of its preparation. Its
use is one of the arcana of Nature, and a miracle of the philosopher's art. When a man drinks wine, there may
be gained from his urine a clear salt, which is volatile, and renders other fixed substances volatile, causing
them to rise with it in the alembic. But the same does not fix. If a man drank nothing but wine, yet for all that
the salt obtained from his urine would have a different property from that gained out of the lees of wine. For
it has undergone a chemical change in the human body, having become transmuted from a vegetable into an
animal salt −− just as horses that feed on oats, straw, etc., change those vegetable substances into flesh and
fat, while the bee prepares honey out of the precious juices of flowers and herbs.
The great change which takes place in these and other substances is due to putrefaction, which separates and
transmutes the constituent elements.
The common spirit of salt, which is extracted according to the direction given in my last declaration, if there
be added to it a small quantity of the "spirit of the dragon," dissolves, volatilizes, and raises together with
itself in the alembic, gold and silver; just as the "eagle," together with the spirit of the dragon (which is found
in stony places), before the spirit is separated from its body, is much more powerful in producing fixation
than volatility.
This I also say, that if the spirit of common salt be joined to the spirit of wine, and distilled together with it, it
becomes sweet, and loses its acidity. This prepared spirit does not dissolve gold bodily, but if it be poured on
prepared calx of gold, it extracts the essence of its colour and redness. If this be rightly done, it reduces the
white and pure moon to the colour of that body from which it was itself extracted. The old body may also
receive back its former colour through the love of alluring Venus, from whose blood it, in the first instance,
derived its origin.
But observe, likewise, that the spirit of salt also destroys the moon, and reduces it to a spiritual essence,
according to my teaching, out of which the " potable moon " may be prepared. This spirit of the moon
belongs to the spirit of the sun, as the female answers to the male, by the copulation or conjunction of the
spirit of mercury or its oil.
The spirit lies hid in mercury, the colour you must seek in sulphur, and their coagulation in salt; then you
have three things which together are capable of once more generating a perfect thing. The spirit is fermented
in the gold with its own proper oil; the sulphur is found in abundance in the property of precious Venus. This
kindles the fixed blood which is sprung from it, the spirit of the salt of the Sages imparts strength and
firmness, though the spirit of tartar and the spirit of urine together with true vinegar, have great virtue. For the
spirit of vinegar is cold, and the spirit of lime is intensely hot, and thus the two spirits are found to be of
opposite natures. I do not here speak according to the customary manner of the Sages. But I must not say too
openly how the inner gates are to be unlocked.~Twelve Keys



Now I will tell you how you must produce the Fire and Water, in which is prepared the Mercury required for the red and white Tincture,
Take fire, or the quicklime of the Sages, which is the vital fire of all trees, and therein doth God Himself burn by divine love. In it purify Mercury, and mortify it for the purposes of our Art; understand, with vulgar Mercury, which you wish to fix in water or fire. But the Mercury which lies hidden in this water, or fire, is therein fixed of itself. The Mercury which is in the fire must be decomposed, clarified, coagulated, and fixed with indelible, living, or Divine fire, of that kind which God has placed in the Sun; and wherein God Himself burns as with Divine love for the consolation of all mankind. Without this fire our Art can not be brought to a successful issue. This is the fire of the Sages which they describe in such obscure terms, as to have been the indirect cause of beguiling many innocent persons to
p. 199
their ruin; so even that they have perished in poverty because they knew not this fire of the Philosophers. It is the most precious fire that God has created in the earth, and has a thousand virtues—nay, it is so precious that men have averred that the Divine Power itself works effectually in it. It has the purifying virtue of Purgatory, and everything is rendered better by it. It is not wonderful, therefore, that a fire should be able to fix and clarify Mercury, and to cleanse it from all grossness and impurity. The Sages call it
170
the living fire, because God has endowed it with His own Divine, and vitalising power.
In the writings of the Sages, this fire goes by different names. Some call it "burnt" wine, others assign to it three names from the analogy of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost; Body, Soul, and Fire, or Spirit.
The Sages further say: The fire is fire, and also water, containing within itself both cold and heat, moisture, and dryness, nor can anything extinguish it but itself. Hence others say that it is an inextinguishable fire, which is continually burning, purifying, and tinging all metals, consuming all their impurities, and combining Mercury with the Sun in so close an union that they become one and inseparable.~The Glory of The World

So there we have it salt of tartar extracted from either burnt of naturally putrefied hollow oaks/ hollow palm trunks(charcoal) mixed with calx vive/living chalk...of course there are other salts to consider than earthly salts on the Hand of The Philosophers.... like salts of heaven and salts that mediate between the two.

pierre
04-02-2012, 10:38 AM
So there we have it salt of tartar extracted from either burnt of naturally putrefied hollow oaks/ hollow palm trunks(charcoal) mixed with calx vive/living chalk...
Hi, Rogerc,
I do not reveal anything saying that this is the secret fire of Roger Caro's path... ¿right?

Hellin Hermetist
04-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Pierre can I ask you sth? Have you found that path described in a book or it was your idea? Why do you believe that mercury must have a mineral (HgS) and not a metallic form? I think that mercury in its metallic state sounds more logical to have the role of the dissolvent. For example some Philosophers have said:

As every metal when it melts takes the form of mercury, mercury has to be the first matter of them all.
By metals, form metals, out of metals, we compose the stone.
Aristotle in his meteorology, which was highly appreciated by some medieval alchemists, says that mercury is the first matter of all metals. And he is referring to common quicksilver. Not an unknown philosophical substance.
Also you can take a look in the whole epistle of Bernard of Tresne to Thomas of Bononia.

pierre
04-02-2012, 02:07 PM
Pierre can I ask you sth? Have you found that path described in a book or it was your idea? Why do you believe that mercury must have a mineral (HgS) and not a metallic form? I think that mercury in its metallic state sounds more logical to have the role of the dissolvent. For example some Philosophers have said:

As every metal when it melts takes the form of mercury, mercury has to be the first matter of them all.
By metals, form metals, out of metals, we compose the stone.
Aristotle in his meteorology, which was highly appreciated by some medieval alchemists, says that mercury is the first matter of all metals. And he is referring to common quicksilver. Not an unknown philosophical substance.
Also you can take a look in the whole epistle of Bernard of Tresne to Thomas of Bononia.

Yes, Hellin,
On the issue of what kind of mercury we use, there are many qualified opinions as authors writing on the subject.
Some discredit the mercury sublimate. Others decry liquid metal mercury, and others to HgS.
We must, then, at this particular point, use good sense, to unravel the mystery.
If you would like to achieve the dissolution of solid matter, what kind of solvent would you use? Would you use a liquid or a solid solvent?
Look what it says Richard, the English:
"The mercury dissolves the gold to water their own way, that is, liquid mercury."
All is said, is not it?
Remember the picture of Julien Champagne in which a naked woman (gold) is tucked into a flask, dissolving in a liquid (mercury)

http://hermetism.free.fr/images/Julien_Champagne_Femme_au_matras.jpg

PS: I remember in my first post, I mentioned that the HgS, should be treated in some special way ...

pierre
04-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Only one more thing.

What matters surrounding this globe?
Eugène Canseliet, comments on the painting of Champagne and the content of the ball:
"This appearance, wonderful and born of all colors, does not correspond in any way, the simple and strong glass ball which mercury and gold in a wise amalgam, are largely subjected to wet digestion; that of the authors preferably speaking, then by analogy with the dry and arid path."

Hellin Hermetist
04-02-2012, 02:30 PM
What globe do you mean? This glass? Is that a sea of mercury or sth like that?

Hellin Hermetist
04-02-2012, 02:41 PM
Also I have one more thing to say before I go to work. According to the doctrine of Bernard of Tresne, the whole path consist in the following steps.

At the beginning we have two things in our phial; these are mercury and gold, which are created from the same matter but by different degrees of digestion. Τhats why our matter in this stage takes the name of Rebis.
After that comes the solution, which reduces the two matters in a liquid state or produces from the two a tinged water. The matter in that state takes the name of Elixir, from E, which is out of, and Lixis, which is water, hence the verses:

Pure Bodies are of Lixis made by Art
thus Greeks Elixir named its second part

From that Elixir we have to extract Azoth, which is extracted by quicksilver out of the dissolved body. Laton is depurated by Azoth, and by this Laton purified by Azoth we make a medicine for curing every sick person.

PS: Does anyone know if that Bernard of Tresne and Bernard of Trevisan was the same person?

pierre
04-02-2012, 02:50 PM
What globe do you mean? This glass? Is that a sea of mercury or sth like that?

I can't be more clearer, Hellin, my friend. It's liquid mercury, yes...!
I speak the words of Charles d'Hooghvorst:
"I will say that all the secret is to dissolve the gold in the mercury. The Wet path, is at first, gold that is dissolved in mercury. The dry path at the end, is where we cook them both. The crisopea is not The Stone, is the way of the greedy. And when you have gold? What do you'll gonna do with that? Are you going to sell it? The end is the palingenesis, the rebirth! We are like Osiris. We must be reborn and pray to Isis. "

Hellin Hermetist
04-02-2012, 02:51 PM
Yes, Hellin,
On the issue of what kind of mercury we use, there are many qualified opinions as authors writing on the subject.
Some discredit the mercury sublimate. Others decry liquid metal mercury, and others to HgS.
We must, then, at this particular point, use good sense, to unravel the mystery.
If you would like to achieve the dissolution of solid matter, what kind of solvent would you use? Would you use a liquid or a solid solvent?


Except from that, what matter will you use to perform the dissolution of a metal, if the kind of the dissolvent and the body being dissolved must be the same, so as to let us arrive to the production of new individuals which belong to their own kind. A mineral, a metallic salt or a pure metal?

pierre
04-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Except from that, what matter will you use to perform the dissolution of a metal, if the kind of the dissolvent and the body being dissolved must be the same, so as to let us arrive to the production of new individuals which belong to their own kind. A mineral, a metallic salt or a pure metal?

In the case of gold, liquid mercury, 'cause they are of the same nature.
Gold is a mature quicksilver, as quicksilver is immature Golden. They are the same substance in two different states of evolution. At least, is the doctrine that alchemically is accepted by many teachers.

By the other hand... watch out! Remember that the bodies or metals, they have no power to change each other. They can only be amalgamated with each other. Only Spirits have that power ...
But if you want to dissolve a metal, do it with a metalic solvent ... or rather, with the metalic Spirit.
But we should not mix alchemical paths...

rogerc
04-02-2012, 10:51 PM
So there we have it salt of tartar extracted from either burnt of naturally putrefied hollow oaks/ hollow palm trunks(charcoal) mixed with calx vive/living chalk...
Hi, Rogerc,
I do not reveal anything saying that this is the secret fire of Roger Caro's path... ¿right?

No ...but there are plenty sources that did:
http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/caro.htm


Number 2 ~ The author executes the Separation of the three bodies using solely the salty Fire and the energetic Fire (2) It is in this that the three bodies obtained are similar but not identical to those sold in commerce. The former are living bodies, while the latter are dead, killed by the Common Fire of the furnaces.



Number 3 ~ This is the representation of an oak. No one can deny that, "sound" or "rotten", it be of a beautiful green, as Fulcanelli indicated: "The first magnetic agent before being used to make the Alkahest (*3) is called the Green Lion, not so much because it possesses a green color"... In effect, isn’t it the ash (of rotten oak, covered with moss, lichen, and saltpeter) which is most rich in Philosophical Salt [Potassium carbonate]?

http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/kj3a.gif

....among whom revealed it the author of that book I quoted above Delmar Bryant seems to have shifted his thoughts from dung of animals that consume grasses and palms to just charcoal derived from plant sources high in potassium, (especially when we find a rotting stump of a hollow oak in the forrest with lichens and mosses and other nostocs growing on it) later in life he wrote:
From the Adiramled Newsletter, April 1902: "The magic medicine of the
ancients was in the form of a very subtle spiritual oil...a grease...The
Universal Axle Grease."
"...It was in looking down into the crater of an extinct volcano
that I beheld evidences of the very Wonder I am presently alluding to.
"Here at the foot of this very mountain I gathered the pieces of
Lav which I pulverized into the oleaginous Sand on which to experiment with
a view of extracting this Oil.
"Since then, I have discovered that there are places in America
where it can also be obtained of excellent quality but in extremely small
quantity.
"So that thus far, it has taken an enormous amount of labor and
patience to obtain it.
"I am at present studying on a chemical process to manufacture it
from common loam by a treatment with Carbon and my experiments bid fair to
succeeed.
"Naturally while I am studying, I am teaching, because the thing is
entirely too good to keep wholly to myself..."


And of course we know what loam is, and we know what is derived from burnt charcoal when extracted with water and purified and that in this subject is all four elements contained: it grew in earth, it rotted in earth with air, it burned in fire with air and it was extracted with water an incombusitble truely fixed subject that has the power to fix volatile subject and seize their fire as well and finally it was crystallized to salt in air...so it goes in line with what I wrote above...but for my part I know that "cinabar" and "sinopole" (bar=pole..."cina-" and "sino-" being variants of each other with same sound) are one in the same substance.... neither being HgS, the allegory always went something along the lines that was given in recreations hermitques...."the old adam dish" in other terms from other books "the substance which was used to form the body of the first man"...not literally a red clay or sinoptic red earth, but the actual substance that remained down here as part of the primordial chaos that must be redeemed, the true hadamah, other clues from more charitable authors like Myriam the Jewess said the answer lied in metallic coloring agents...so we know that "common mercury" is not the same as vulgar mercury but spirit of mercury which is actually the tinging arsenic. Finally I found the old chinese texts from whence western alchemy was derived that says arsenic can transform copper and dry mercury but that first it must be subdued by "grass"...which gave me pause...but if I think about "grass" treated in the right way...I see the light! It also said realgar cannot derive its proper color unless treated with sal ammoniac. So we get the bases for the Guasco path of sulfur and see how its really the same as Cyliani.

So naturally with that being said I agree with what others said here about an alternative to cinabar/vulgar mercury, especially since there are some here who worked with Caros group for 20 years and got nothing with cinabar/mercury: http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/kj8a.gif


This is a sample of the First Matter, a sample of this ore which contains in its breast the Sun and Moon of our Philosophers, as well as the Salt in an infinitesimal dose. Hermes, Paracelsus, Albert the Great, J.-B. Porta, etc., have called it cinnabar, either designating it overtly by its name or describing the method of making it artificially. Certain reader believed that the Master Kamala-Jnana refuted this ore categorically. This is not true at all; Kamala-Jnana simply said it should not be treated like the industrial ore. It is thus that it is analogous but not equal, similar but not identical. One can see the differences in photographs Number 4, 5, 6, and 7.


Cinabar doesn't have black spots like this, I 've ground pounds of it from all over the world....unless the ore is rebuilt with.....sal ammoniac.....so "calomel"(ethiops mercury) = mercuric chloride:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(I)_chloride


History

The name calomel is thought to come from the Greek καλός beautiful, and μέλας black. This name (somewhat surprising for a white compound) is probably due to its characteristic disproportionation reaction with ammonia, which gives a spectacular black coloration due to the finely dispersed metallic mercury formed. It is also referred to as the mineral horn quicksilver or horn mercury


Horn because it was derived from harthorns oil which is high in ammonia salts/solution...which is where ares and the ram comes in ...but even so the soultion mercuric chloride being the agent solvent we only have here the equal of Guasco's path of philosophic mercury which says to use mercuric chloride to get the "mercury" of the lunar metals, tin,silver, lead, etc, etc....

But my problem is that when the correct solvent is grasped and produced(celestial agriiculture) which has all its virtues from above(heavenly) it has the power to act on all metals not just mercury and turn them black...that is putrefy them. So really its just like Perard says in his explanation of Hermes Unveiled:
This is the true practitioner's response to allegations purely gratuitous pontificating idiots who have never laid hands away from the pen to work in tight, and yet present themselves as followers. - The mode is filled with books as ridiculous and dangerous to these singular idiots.
It says that the common mercury and gold are for either the beginning or the middle or end of the work and they provide the best reasons.A little more and the "Hermetic Magisterium" would like the Creation that God made it from nothing. As it is the image, all true believers claim, it should also be nothing.
O madness of fools logic !!!.... That says it all.
In truth, the raw material, is neither mercury nor the gold trade. It is a mineral salt that nitrous is like a stone and you know it well because you have shown me one day in your backyard, remember you.
But the raw material is properly prepared, gold and mercury enter the scene and have their uses, although strictly speaking we can do without, but not like fake fans wish.
Both metals are used to determine the stone to métalléité, this is the reason for their employment.
In a sense, if the mineral and saline nitrous is the beginning of the work, gold and mercury, are in the middle and the end, because mercury affects the transmute

The archemic experiment called the gold of the two cementations proves it since the intial cementing powder that converts silver to its nascent gold state which is a supreme black and will never return to silver state and is called fixed luna is achieved with ....are you ready? A cementing powder comprised of tartar, quick lime and sea salt.

pierre
04-02-2012, 11:39 PM
No ...but there are plenty sources that did:
http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/caro.htm



http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/kj3a.gif

....among whom revealed it the author of that book I quoted above Delmar Bryant seems to have shifted his thoughts from dung of animals that consume grasses and palms to just charcoal derived from plant sources high in potassium, (especially when we find a rotting stump of a hollow oak in the forrest with lichens and mosses and other nostocs growing on it) later in life he wrote:

And of course we know what loam is, and we know what is derived from burnt charcoal when extracted with water and purified and that in this subject is all four elements contained: it grew in earth, it rotted in earth with air, it burned in fire with air and it was extracted with water an incombusitble truely fixed subject that has the power to fix volatile subject and seize their fire as well and finally it was crystallized to salt in air...so it goes in line with what I wrote above...but for my part I know that "cinabar" and "sinopole" (bar=pole..."cina-" and "sino-" being variants of each other with same sound) are one in the same substance.... neither being HgS, the allegory always went something along the lines that was given in recreations hermitques...."the old adam dish" in other terms from other books "the substance which was used to form the body of the first man"...not literally a red clay or sinoptic red earth, but the actual substance that remained down here as part of the primordial chaos that must be redeemed, the true hadamah, other clues from more charitable authors like Myriam the Jewess said the answer lied in metallic coloring agents...so we know that "common mercury" is not the same as vulgar mercury but spirit of mercury which is actually the tinging arsenic. Finally I found the old chinese texts from whence western alchemy was derived that says arsenic can transform copper and dry mercury but that first it must be subdued by "grass"...which gave me pause...but if I think about "grass" treated in the right way...I see the light! It also said realgar cannot derive its proper color unless treated with sal ammoniac. So we get the bases for the Guasco path of sulfur and see how its really the same as Cyliani.

So naturally with that being said I agree with what others said here about an alternative to cinabar/vulgar mercury, especially since there are some here who worked with Caros group for 20 years and got nothing with cinabar/mercury: http://www.rexresearch.com/caro/kj8a.gif



Cinabar doesn't have black spots like this, I 've ground pounds of it from all over the world....unless the ore is rebuilt with.....sal ammoniac.....so "calomel"(ethiops mercury) = mercuric chloride:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(I)_chloride



Horn because it was derived from harthorns oil which is high in ammonia salts/solution...which is where ares and the ram comes in ...but even so the soultion mercuric chloride being the agent solvent we only have here the equal of Guasco's path of philosophic mercury which says to use mercuric chloride to get the "mercury" of the lunar metals, tin,silver, lead, etc, etc....

But my problem is that when the correct solvent is grasped and produced(celestial agriiculture) which has all its virtues from above(heavenly) it has the power to act on all metals not just mercury and turn them black...that is putrefy them. So really its just like Perard says in his explanation of Hermes Unveiled:

The archemic experiment called the gold of the two cementations proves it since the intial cementing powder that converts silver to its nascent gold state which is a supreme black and will never return to silver state and is called fixed luna is achieved with ....are you ready? A cementing powder comprised of tartar, quick lime and sea salt.

when I said:
I do not reveal anything saying that this is the secret fire of Roger Caro's path... ¿right?
I mean: yes, those are the Roger Caro's materials... in a ironic way.
Aren't you interpreted it that way?

rogerc
04-03-2012, 12:02 AM
when I said:
I do not reveal anything saying that this is the secret fire of Roger Caro's path... ¿right?
I mean: yes, those are the Roger Caro's materials... in a ironic way.
Aren't you interpreted it that way?

Yes I knew...but I was giving you the opportunity to remain elusive if that was your wish :)

garvolt2002
04-03-2012, 12:06 AM
Rogerc
Do you think the material of Roger Caro was Realgar and not cinnabar? As you said cinnabar does not have black spots. If it is realgar do you think the process of caro would work. Perhaps another material with realgar, salt ?? is required??

Hellin Hermetist
04-03-2012, 12:26 AM
So, have you studied the Pantheu's Voarchadumia Leo? Will you give us any more details about that particular? Do we get only a small amount of nascent gold after the cementation or the whole substance of silver transform itself to the nascent gold state?

TubalCain
04-03-2012, 01:09 AM
No more games. I got tired of so many lies and deceptions.
I will tell you openly what has been hidden all the time and was discovered long ago: the real work.
I know no one will share my opinion and you all will reject it because thousands of teachers say that such matter is not correct, (the teachers lie to hide the art) and a thousand other teachers say: everything is expensive does not fit into our work. (But they hide it by saying it is very valuable for those who know ...)
But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends.
Believe, check it or live duped forever...The "Real Work" IS the Work itself. The path to the Alkahest is just one path, and a part of, "the real work". The Mercury is the same in each Kingdom, All mineral mercury is the same. All plant mercury, is the same. All Animal mercury, is the same. To "Dissolve Au in mineral mercury" is a statement of redundancy.

rogerc
04-03-2012, 01:40 AM
Rogerc
Do you think the material of Roger Caro was Realgar and not cinnabar? As you said cinnabar does not have black spots.

Well even though he may have used cinnabar in a derivative way, because his pictures do show quicksilver mercury at the bottom of flask, I think the thread he was following falsely lead him to cinnabr where he should have used realgar instead, in other words had we read the same works, I would have taken for my matter, "the red dragon" "old adam dish" the realgar and he the cinnbar but also speaking as truthfully as I possibly can the more I read on Chinese and Indian alchemy everywhere realgar is mentioned, cinabar is also mentioned side by side, albiet not in the same light...so thats why above I left it open for the possiblity above that when we read this quote from Roger Caro the Great work Photographed :
This is a sample of the First Matter, a sample of this ore which contains in its breast the Sun and Moon of our Philosophers, as well as the Salt in an infinitesimal dose. Hermes, Paracelsus, Albert the Great, J.-B. Porta, etc., have called it cinnabar, either designating it overtly by its name or describing the method of making it artificially. Certain reader believed that the Master Kamala-Jnana refuted this ore categorically. This is not true at all; Kamala-Jnana simply said it should not be treated like the industrial ore. It is thus that it is analogous but not equal, similar but not identical What conclusion we can arrive at? , I mean there is only one way to resolve this problem logically, which for me makes it more archemy than alchemy, is that in my work with the artificial production of gold, we must first exhalt gold by overpotentializing its sulfur, we do this with copper sublimed with cinabar, and what rises when the mercury(quicksilver) separates and condenses is a new cinabar that contains the sulfur of copper midway up the condenser, this product we take as our new cinabar and repeat the sublimation but this time with sal ammoniac...we finally now get a different cinnabar free of mineral sulfur but made of the philosophical sulfur of copper and sal ammoniac, then we simply wash out the sal ammoniac salt and we arrive at the sulfur of copper that we uses in fusion to exhalt the gold, this makes the gold take on a deep red coral color. Now much in the same way when that quote I gave speaks of refuting cinnabar categorically but allowing for the fact it may be a new ore created by the alchemist comprised of cinabar but not the cinabar of commerce, it maybe that it was sublimed or treated with sal ammoniac or in a bath and made solid again which is why I gave that wikepedia excerpt about calomel which is just another name for mercuric chloride, ethiops cinnabar, but it literally means black mercury and the black coloration is a result of the ammonia, but ultimately gives a white salt of mercuric chloride(corrosive sublimate) which can be used as a key, but IMO archemically to reach the mercury of metals archemically, which is why I don't like Guasco's regimine of philosophic mercury as alchemical process go, because this is what he uses, but I can see in a round about way how it sticks to the road, as long as the salts used to make the corrosive sublimate were philosophical and living and made the mercury black before we got a white product (corrosive sublimate) then this will hold the road, and in a more or less preverted fashion make a "philosophical mercury", even though the true "dry water" which dissolves gold like ice in warm water did not need the vulgar mercury/quicksilver to have this action, which only specified it as it began to act on it and turn it black in the cinnabar if this is indeed what Caro did. This astral spirit then as it came from the stars is the original agent present in the ammoniacal salt which made the mercury in the cinnabar turn black, so to me all of this only re-enforces more of what I said regarding the true agent of change, that the true first matter being present more purely in a niterous or saline animating agent like was said in that letter of Perard, it was derived from the living acid of nature from heavenly influx fixed into an earthly salt, which goes with that passage from that letter, about ammonia and niter and that we don't need mercury or gold but only to specify the 'stone' to the metallic realm, and we find this goes in line with golden chain of homer and other great texts, but if we search out the evolution of metals we find that salts like sal ammoniac, niter, tartar, quicklime, arsenic are the true spirits of change and metamorphosis at varying degrees of evolution thats why all the great classics like New Pearl of A Great Price list these spirits and arsenic in one form or another is always listed along with sal ammoniac:
For it is clear that out of these two matters all metals are derived and generated; orpiment, sal armoniac, and secondary spirits like marcasite, magnesia, and tutia, being all reducible to these two primary forms. There are seven spirits in Alchemy, the four principal ones, quicksilver, sulphur, orpiment, and sal armoniac, and the three secondary and composite spirits, marcasite, magnesia and tutia; but sulphur and quicksilver include them all. The Stone would have to be obtained either from the metals or from these spirits.



John Cremer ~ The Testament of Cremer

Chapter I. How to Prepare the Living Water which Constitutes the Life of Our Art --- Take three oz. of tartar of good claret, strong and pure. Add to it five oz. of Petroleum, two oz. of living sulphur, two oz. of orange coloured Arsenic, three oz. of Rabusenum, two oz. of willow charcoal. Mix and distil all these ingredients in the "bath of Neptune," in a well-stoppered glass jar. Let this jar be about one cubit high, and carefully closed to prevent any of the spirits or smoke from evaporating. When you see it turn of a pale colour, take it out of the furnace, and let it cool. You ought to be able to prepare it in about four days.




Albertus Magnus ~ Compound of Compounds
Of the Purification of the Spirits --- The purification of spirits consists in the removal of all superfluities, but without the corruption of essentials. There are three kinds of spirits, mineral, vegetable, and animal. The mineral spirits, again, are properly three: sulphur, quicksilver, and arsenic, which operate naturally in metals, and to which metals, prepared by Art, are naturally joined. Of these, sulphur is the great active, quicksilver the great passive principle, while arsenic represents the secondary operations of quicksilver; but all three unite in the composition of the Elixir

The Epistle of Bonus of Ferrara


Of The Spirits --- There are three mineral spirits: quicksilver, sulphur and arsenic. Arsenic is hot and dry, of great virtue and potency, yet lightly esteemed. It burns up all other bodies. There are two kinds of arsenic, one is of a pale white, the other red. The red is combustive, the white is solvent, and useful for the Tincture; with quicksilver it makes silver. It has a fiery nature, and sublimes quickly. This spirit we strive to render corporeal and fixed, in order that it may permanently colour our substance. It has great affinity for vinegar


Albertus Magnus ~ Libellus de Alchimia

10. The Four Spirits of Metals Which Color --- Note that the four spirits of metals are mercury, sulphur, auripigmentum or arsenicum, and sal ammoniac. These four spirits color metals white and red, that is, in Gold and Silver: yet not of themselves, unless they are first prepared by different medicines for this, and are not volatile, and when placed in the fire burn brilliantly



Edward Nowell ~ Certain Chemical Works With True Practice

Preface.
…Likewise do learn our mineral spirits three
From whence they rise, Arsenick of which being one,
The other Sulphur, ye last Mercury.
The Fuming Spirits chiefest of our Stone
One of those poisonous with his piercing breath
Congeals Quicksilver to a solid Earth


So for me arsenic and its forms are the same as the living niterous and animating spirit we get from the work of the celestial agriculture, these astral spirits they were absorbed by fatty earths of the nature of limestone and tartar until they made the true metallic juice..arsenic/gur, so if we want the quick mineral path it can only be arsenic which is true spirit of mercury, not vulgar quicksilver which is just an dead androgyne metal. Others like Fulcanelli says that cinabar doesn't yet have the agent it needs, so it seems to fall in line with reason, it would have to be treated with a living agent before it can be used...but my idea is....why? Why waste our time, why not get the spirits and use them to open arsenical sulfur, which already contains them and these spirits and nothing else comprised the true philosopic stone of the wise but fixed into a corpreal subject which is the need for specification in the first place, but why mercury...why not gold...wouldn't mercury take longer since it must first evolve to the state of perfection of gold before it can become the housing or coating. The point is all these paths are complicated and the path of gold cooked in philosophic mercury like Fulcanelli says is thankless, accessable to only the wealthy and requires an uniterrupted labor of about two years, while the way of the poor needs only the help of a coarse red clay and can be accomplished in a few hours, therefore the ars brevis involves arsenic/realgar and the proper salts housing the living spirits, it requires no gold, no mercury, it is the path of one matter, one vessel, one fire.

rogerc
04-03-2012, 01:55 AM
So, have you studied the Pantheu's Voarchadumia Leo? Will you give us any more details about that particular? Do we get only a small amount of nascent gold after the cementation or the whole substance of silver transform itself to the nascent gold state?

Yes, but I don't want to get into it in more detail on this thread nor on the open forum..I was only citing the experiment in how it seemed more archemical to use cinnabar.

Seth-Ra
04-03-2012, 05:37 AM
Roger,

I read the wiki entry for the calomel, and something else caught my eye - something claimed that the Stone does also....


However, it [calomel] was often administered to patients in such great quantities that their hair and teeth fell out.

Usually people think of that as being due to radiation poisoning, maybe not so much so... ;)




~Seth-Ra

rogerc
04-03-2012, 08:16 AM
Just so you know Pierre this was the one that blew the whole path wide open for me a few years ago:

http://www.rexresearch.com/adept/aa7hgau.htm


(3) Roger Caro & Kamala-Jnana

The French alchemical school of the Temple of Ajunta published a few small hermetic texts (Pleiade Alchimique, Concordances Alchimiques, etc) in the 1960s. The Complete Great Work Photographed includes 40 photographs of the Ars Magna as it was performed by Kamala-Jnana and Roger Caro.

The method is described in classical alchemical language, but most of the materials and methods are clearly described. Mercury was used to produce a species of Philosophers' Stone. The process can be described in chemical terms as follows: Prepare (1) b-meta-cinnabarite (a-cinnabarite will not produce the same results, in my experience), (2) a concentrated solution of a mixture of lime and potash and (3) sulfureted potash (potassium polysulfide). Saturate the cinnabarite with the lime-potash mixture solution, then dry it. Repeat several times until albedo appears. Then saturate with a concentrated solution of potassium polysulfide, and strip the solvent (methyl or ethyl alcohol also can be used). Repeat this step until white needles appear (the Dragon's Teeth). The color changes from yellow to orange to red. The Stone is multiplied by grinding it to powder and repeating (7x) the wash with lime-potash. At this point, the Stone emits lights --- probably from the calcium sulfide byproduct of the reaction mixture. Further elaboration and transmutation of lead to gold can be accomplished according to the skill of the Artist


Of course the b-meta-cinnabarite is the black alloetrope

pierre
04-03-2012, 07:23 PM
Just so you know Pierre this was the one that blew the whole path wide open for me a few years ago:

http://www.rexresearch.com/adept/aa7hgau.htm

The method is described in classical alchemical language, but most of the materials and methods are clearly described. Mercury was used to produce a species of Philosophers' Stone. The process can be described in chemical terms as follows: Prepare (1) b-meta-cinnabarite (a-cinnabarite will not produce the same results, in my experience), (2) a concentrated solution of a mixture of lime and potash and (3) sulfureted potash (potassium polysulfide). Saturate the cinnabarite with the lime-potash mixture solution, then dry it. Repeat several times until albedo appears. Then saturate with a concentrated solution of potassium polysulfide, and strip the solvent (methyl or ethyl alcohol also can be used). Repeat this step until white needles appear (the Dragon's Teeth). The color changes from yellow to orange to red. The Stone is multiplied by grinding it to powder and repeating (7x) the wash with lime-potash. At this point, the Stone emits lights --- probably from the calcium sulfide byproduct of the reaction mixture. Further elaboration and transmutation of lead to gold can be accomplished according to the skill of the Artist

Of course the b-meta-cinnabarite is the black alloetrope

rogerc,
Is this a summary of the work, the procedure and materials of Kamala Jnana's book, The Complete Great Work Photographed?
And who gives the opinion, if I may ask?

rogerc
04-03-2012, 07:54 PM
rogerc,
Is this a summary of the work, the procedure and materials of Kamala Jnana's book, The Complete Great Work Photographed?
And who gives the opinion, if I may ask?
Yes and
I think its Robert Nelson who wrote that work "Adept Alchemy" thats on rexresearch.com ..... this except I gave is from chapter 7 thats about transmutation of mercury into gold coincedentally enough the first instance he gives was of Professors Nagaoka transmutation of mercury under parrafin that was featured on that stupid ancient aliens link that amoodki gave...... it literally made me sick to my stomach. At any rate the description by Nelson of the work is accurate enough from a chemical standpoint...of course the author makes no mention of the real agent.....the spiritus mundi

pierre
04-04-2012, 06:23 PM
Yes and
I think its Robert Nelson who wrote that work "Adept Alchemy" thats on rexresearch.com ..... this except I gave is from chapter 7 thats about transmutation of mercury into gold coincedentally enough the first instance he gives was of Professors Nagaoka transmutation of mercury under parrafin that was featured on that stupid ancient aliens link that amoodki gave...... it literally made me sick to my stomach. At any rate the description by Nelson of the work is accurate enough from a chemical standpoint...of course the author makes no mention of the real agent.....the spiritus mundi

This looks more like a Archemical that alchemical method, to me. Don't you think the same?

rogerc
04-05-2012, 01:28 AM
This looks more like a Archemical that alchemical method, to me. Don't you think the same?
Theres a bit more to archemy than using high energy particles to try and manipulate single atoms....it does make a transmutation but usually only atoms at a time....archemy does not work on this principle since it only works with metals and not all periodic elements, and it works on molecules not single atoms. Archemy in its own right teaches some important facets of alchemy, its not as noble a science, but archemical transmutations are closer in principle and function to alchemy transmutations, the only difference is in the mercury we use, being an unspecified one. Mostly it involves accelerating the action of nature but in a lab setting to try and mature silver to gold.

solomon levi
04-05-2012, 01:03 PM
The First Operation

The most ancient and the truest operation of the old Philosophers, but dangerous and long, was from the amalgam of Sol and Mercury or Luna and Mercury, which we carried out according to their teaching and with the help of Lumen nature (the Light of nature) in the following way.

We took one ounce of Aurum (gold- purged - purified) by antimony, six ounces of Argentum which was vivified by sublimation of Mercury, and prepared the amalgam from them in the usual way. This we pressed through leather until only three ounces of the amalgam were left, that is one ounce of Aurum and two ounces of Argentum Vivum. Having placed it in a hermetically closed phial we kept it on a very light fire until after over 40 days it started to pass ad nigredinem (into the black stage), which Philosophers call Caput Corvi (Raven's Head). Then we gave more fire until Various colours as in cauda Pavonis (Peacock's Tail) began to appear. Here we made an error. The fire applied was stronger than it was necessary, and the matter turned red at once and the precipitate from it was such that no operation (i.e. transmutation) could be performed, however it was very useful for healing the human body. I understand that this operation could have been carried to a successful end but regimen Ignis (Mastery of Fire) is very difficult and dangerous, and requires great perseverance and a very long time.

In this way acted the old Arabs, such as Morigenes, Alphidius, Calid Balilonus, Blemidas, Adros, Abohali (i.e. Avicenna), Tabid, Chora, Charab, and of the Greeks, Olimpidorus Alexandrinus, Ostanes, Heliodorus and Albugazai, the teacher of young Plato and among the more recent and fron the last century Augurellus, Bernardus Trevisanus, Magister Hospitalis and Beatus Thomas de Aquino, if he is the author of those books usually circulatcd under his name. In many times this operation was performed in Rome by Jacobus Boncompagnus, the duke of Sora and Arpino, and by Wernalcon, a great man from Naples, but not one of them arrived at the correct result due to the length of the process. as at least three years must be devoted to it.
- Operatie Elixiris Philosophici by Michael Sendivogius

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~panopus/essentia/essentiav2_3.htm

pierre
04-05-2012, 05:27 PM
Hi, solomon,
The bodies only form amalgams with each other. Only the spirit can cause transformations in metals.
Neither the purified gold or mercury sublimate, may be considered spirits ...
Surely in this first operation, Sendivogius has concealed something: the agent that causes the transformation.

He, after having failed 15 times, the text ends with this sentence:
"Let us (the Arab Geber says in the book "From Perfectione Magisterii") and the glorious worship GOD who created Highest Mercury Gave it substantiality and substantial businesses and properties. Probably it would be impossible to find any other thing in Nature Which would POSSESS the properties of This kind and equal power. Mercury is That Which is superior to fire: not only is it not Conquered by fire, But it is friendly events Towards fire and Rests in It With joy".

I notice that says: "... GOD who created Mercury Highest ...", meaning thereby that mercury is not of terrestrial origin, but heavenly. Or what is the same, Spiritual!
But that's my humble opinion about the error that may have committed Sendivogious.

solomon levi
04-06-2012, 12:18 AM
Perhaps the materials are not what he says, but if he arrived
at nigredo and peacock's tail, his matters were not wrong, whatever they were.

I guess I don't understand where you're coming from.
Didn't you say the subject is common mercury or cinnabar and gold?

"But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends."

How do you suggest this happens?
Do you mean amalgam literally or as alchemists use it?
Philosophical mercury is a rebus/amalgam (as alchemists use the term), is it not?

If you didn't mean common mercury by "mineral Mercury", how have you revealed
anything, which was your claim in the first post - no more games?

I have just tried to supply works that support your claim, but apparently they do not.

pierre
04-06-2012, 07:43 PM
Perhaps the materials are not what he says, but if he arrived
at nigredo and peacock's tail, his matters were not wrong, whatever they were.

I guess I don't understand where you're coming from.
Didn't you say the subject is common mercury or cinnabar and gold?

"But all art is, briefly stated, in dissolving the metallic gold in mineral Mercury, my friends."

How do you suggest this happens?
Do you mean amalgam literally or as alchemists use it?
Philosophical mercury is a rebus/amalgam (as alchemists use the term), is it not?

If you didn't mean common mercury by "mineral Mercury", how have you revealed
anything, which was your claim in the first post - no more games?

I have just tried to supply works that support your claim, but apparently they do not.

The problem, solomon, is that in this thread, we talked about different alchemical alternatives, and that confuses us all.
Ok, here we go.

We need the tincture of gold to form the stone. This tincture is what gives perfection to impure bodies. I must say that this is the sulfur of gold. But this dye is obtained by adding gold to mercury, which means that by mercury, gold is transformed into sulfur, and then by decoction, in Philosopher's Stone.

So, it is clear that mercury acts to release the tincture of gold, because this mercury is a menstruum of the same nature of Gold, and his metalic solvent. For this solution, the gold is "split" in their most minute parts, and this is, nothing more and nothing less than a philosophical revivification.

On the other hand, mercury fulfills the role of Prima Matter, too, that is assimilated to the soul of gold for its rebirth in a philosophical way.

Finally, as you see, mercury is the earth that nourishes the seed of gold, and thus, mercury turns to gold. If gold is cooked and dissolves in mercury, this mercury will acquire the natural properties of this gold.
So, mercury is the matter and menstruum of all the perfect bodies.

I said.

I hope I expressed myself better this time.

pierre
04-06-2012, 07:49 PM
The problem, solomon, is that in this thread, we talked about different alchemical alternatives, and that confuses us all.
Ok, here we go.

We need the tincture of gold to form the stone. This tincture is what gives perfection to impure bodies. I must say that this is the sulfur of gold. But this dye is obtained by adding gold to mercury, which means that by mercury, gold is transformed into sulfur, and then by decoction, in Philosopher's Stone.

So, it is clear that mercury acts to release the tincture of gold, because this mercury is a menstruum of the same nature of Gold, and his metalic solvent. For this solution, the gold is "split" in their most minute parts, and this is, nothing more and nothing less than a philosophical revivification.

On the other hand, mercury fulfills the role of Prima Matter, too, that is assimilated to the soul of gold for its rebirth in a philosophical way.

Finally, as you see, mercury is the earth that nourishes the seed of gold, and thus, mercury turns to gold. If gold is cooked and dissolves in mercury, this mercury will acquire the natural properties of this gold.
So, mercury is the matter and menstruum of all the perfect bodies.

I said.

I hope I expressed myself better this time.

PS: Gold is nothing but coagulated mercury.
Bernardo Trevisano.

Weidenfeld
04-07-2012, 11:25 AM
We need the tincture of gold to form the stone. This tincture is what gives perfection to impure bodies. I must say that this is the sulfur of gold. But this dye is obtained by adding gold to mercury, which means that by mercury, gold is transformed into sulfur, and then by decoction, in Philosopher's Stone.

How true is this. The Mercury, which is our Universal Menstruum or the Alkahest, thus releases the true Sulphur of gold which now is Our Gold. However not only the Sulphur is released by the re-solving action of our Mercury but also the Salt and the Mercury of the latter. In order to express these vital things short, the Mercury acts like a catalyst and pulls out the three principles (tria prima) of the metallic matter and its subsequent unification finally delivers us the Stone. It is important to mention that the Mercury itself isn't dissipated. It sounds simple but at the same time we might overcome the most hidden secret in alchemy, the preparation of the very necessary Fontina Bernhardi, the Water of the Wises, Lull's Spirit of Wine ect. ect.

pierre
04-07-2012, 01:03 PM
How true is this. The Mercury, which is our Universal Menstruum or the Alkahest, thus releases the true Sulphur of gold which now is Our Gold. However not only the Sulphur is released by the re-solving action of our Mercury but also the Salt and the Mercury of the latter. In order to express these vital things short, the Mercury acts like a catalyst and pulls out the three principles (tria prima) of the metallic matter and its subsequent unification finally delivers us the Stone. It is important to mention that the Mercury itself isn't dissipated. It sounds simple but at the same time we might overcome the most hidden secret in alchemy, the preparation of the very necessary Fontina Bernhardi, the Water of the Wises, Lull's Spirit of Wine ect. ect.

Hello Weidenfeld,
Alkahest, Fontina Bernhardi, the Water of the Wises, Lull's Spirit of Wine... you mean the first simple Mercury solvent extracted from metals, or quicksilver from cinnabar, instead?
Regards to All.

Rueb
04-07-2012, 02:41 PM
So we are back at point zero ...

Rueb

Andro
04-07-2012, 02:47 PM
So we are back at point zero ...

Not at all.

What this thread describes is one approach among others.

Do you think Nature's 'mysterious' ways are limited to one single application?

Don't let the thread title get to you :)

With friendship,

A.

Weidenfeld
04-08-2012, 10:38 AM
Hello Weidenfeld,
Alkahest, Fontina Bernhardi, the Water of the Wises, Lull's Spirit of Wine... you mean the first simple Mercury solvent extracted from metals, or quicksilver from cinnabar, instead?
Regards to All.
I mean the true Menstruum that is capable to separate an element in its true alchemical principles and not a pseudo-menstruum that changes elements chemically only, i.e. those various sulphurs which are not sulphurs but chemical compounds viz. salts or oxides without any true alchemical character.

pierre
04-08-2012, 11:08 AM
So we are back at point zero ...

Rueb

Hi Rueb, this is how it should be...
Alchemy requires the rotation of a wheel itself, from beginning to end repeatedly over and over again. :rolleyes:

Hellin Hermetist
04-09-2012, 03:56 PM
So we are back at point zero ...

Rueb

I shouldn't say that we are back at the beginning, as I believe that Pierre said his opinion quite clearly in this thread. Common metallic mercury is the first solvent and sophic mercury which perfects the work is the one extracted by common metallic mercury from the perfect bodies. The quote of Sendivogius that Solomon gave describes that path in further details.

rogerc
04-09-2012, 09:27 PM
Pierre....you might already know this or maybe it slipped your mind but along the lines of the two agents used to get secret fire...potash and quicklime....Paracelsus used them to get his alkahest along with spiritus vini(alcohol) so once again we see, the two agents come together and absorb an astral spirit which is soluble in spirit of wine, so it is used to strip it, but itself (astral spirit) is incombustible, to make the agent capable of dissolving gold like ice in warm water and make the true philosophical amalagam, it needs to be rectified seven times, that is pass through seven celestial halls like Fulcanelli, and cabala mineralis says...of course somewhere along the line salt peter and sal ammoniac get incorporated, through urine and or dew perhaps.

pierre
04-10-2012, 12:44 AM
Pierre....you might already know this or maybe it slipped your mind but along the lines of the two agents used to get secret fire...potash and quicklime....Paracelsus used them to get his alkahest along with spiritus vini(alcohol) so once again we see, the two agents come together and absorb an astral spirit which is soluble in spirit of wine, so it is used to strip it, but itself (astral spirit) is incombustible, to make the agent capable of dissolving gold like ice in warm water and make the true philosophical amalagam, it needs to be rectified seven times, that is pass through seven celestial halls like Fulcanelli, and cabala mineralis says...of course somewhere along the line salt peter and sal ammoniac get incorporated, through urine and or dew perhaps.

The comment I make here has nothing to do with the way of the mercury and gold. Right?
rogerc;
It is possible that this was the alkahest of Paracelsus, as you say.
But if the potash and quicklime are only attractive to astral spirit, and you need another substance to hold it, (you mention alcohol) should be a metallic substance. Do not you think?
Fulcanelli, for example, to trap the spirit astral uses iron sulfur subtilized through art. And it seems logical, since we know that the sulfur of metals is the astral spirit materialized in minerals.
Just wondering.

rogerc
04-10-2012, 01:52 AM
The comment I make here has nothing to do with the way of the mercury and gold. Right?
rogerc;
It is possible that this was the alkahest of Paracelsus, as you say.
But if the potash and quicklime are only attractive to astral spirit, and you need another substance to hold it, (you mention alcohol) should be a metallic substance. Do not you think?
Fulcanelli, for example, to trap the spirit astral uses iron sulfur subtilized through art. And it seems logical, since we know that the sulfur of metals is the astral spirit materialized in minerals.
Just wondering.

There are different ways to attract... some subjects used in alchemy are based exactly as we observe their qualities and action in nature and of course they are naturally magnetic, their virtue is as a very exact magnetic quality put there and hid by the creator, limestone is one of these, the other way is based on an attraction which utilizes an action or interplay developed by subjects of opposite polarities, here is where we play with the mechanics that Cyliani gave on the subject...for example.....in the letter from Perard to his disciple where he describes the work of Hermes Unveiled which I have annotated with his comments here below so you can read more clearly:

Remember also that the solution mysterious of the material, or the magical marriage of Venus with Mars was made in the temple which I have previously mentioned,[(I) I. Cyliani you hear about it here from his dream, in which he shows the first solution of the substance of the stone allowing the union of the two principles that are metal and Mars and Venus are the basis of the "Great Work"] one fine night, the calm and cloudless sky, and the sun being in the sign of Gemini [(J) J. This is the philosophical spring marks the beginning of the work tight the moon in its first quarter in full], using the magnet that attracts [(K) K. That is the key secret fire which allows the condensation of the astral spirit of the same nature as the stone] the astral spirit of heaven, which is seven times Corrected [(L) L. The virtue of this astral spirit is strengthened by degrees, through a precise distillation in a water bath repeated seven times]. until it can calcine gold.
Finally the first operation is complete, al'Azoth, White or Mercury, or salt, or the Philosophers' Secret Fire [(M) M. That is to say that the astral spirit raised its fire in the area to which he communicated life]


So yes here we have the two metals whose polar natures makes them a magnetic for the spiritus mundi, but of course they don't touch it, and like Cyliani says there is a magnetic salt present with mars and venus and at the right time of the year, this magnetic salt will drink up this astral spirit and as always from the beginning captation to the final coction of the stone, the work is always about capturing and fixing this spirit onto a medium prepared to receive it, we move therefore from the most subtle and volatile salt in the beginning as an envelope for this captured spirit to the most fixed sulfur in gold in the end....in other words the whole subject called the operation of the sun, the magnum opus (and this goes for any path, don't fool yourselves) is about capturing the solar essence and pinning it.... the whole work can best be summed like this:


It becomes clearly evident from the preceding considerations, that the philosophers’ stone
or universal Medicine, in spite of its undeniable metallic origin, is not uniquely made
from metallic matter. If it were otherwise, and if one had to compose it only with metals,
it would remain subjected to the conditions ruling mineral nature and it would have no
need to be fermented to operate transmutation. Furthermore, the fundamental axiom
which teaches that bodies have no action on bodies would be false and paradoxical. Take
the time and the trouble to experiment, and you will recognize that metals have no action
on other metals. Be they brought to the state of salts or ashes, glasses or colloids, they
will always retain their nature throughout trials and, in the process o reduction, they will
separate without losing their specific qualities.
Only the metallic spirits possess the privilege to alter, modify and denature metallic
bodies. They are the true instigators of all the physical metamorphoses that can be
observed here. But since these tenuous, extremely subtle and volatile spirits need a
vehicle, an envelope capable of holding them back; since this mater must be very pure ---
to allow the spirit to remain there --- and very fixed so as to prevent its volatilization;
since it must remain fusible in order to promote ingress; since it is essential that it be
absolutely resistant to reducing agents, we may easily understand that this matter cannot
be searched for in the sole category of metals. That is why Basil Valentine recommends
that we take the spirit out of the metallic root and Bernard of Trevisan forbids the use o
metals, minerals and their salts in the construction of the body. The reason for it is simple
and self-explanatory. If the stone were made up of a metallic body and a spirit fixed in
this body, the later acting on the former as if it were of the same species, the whole would
take the characteristics form of metal. We could, in this case, obtain gold or silver or even
an unknown metal but nothing more. This is what alchemists have always done, because
they did not know the universality and the nature of the agent which they were looking
for. But what we ask for, along with all the philosophers, is not the union of a metallic
body with a metallic spirit, but rather the condensation, the agglomeration of this spirit
into a coherent, tenacious and refractory envelope, capable of coating it, impregnating all
its parts and quaranteeing it an efficacious protection. This soul, spirit, or fire assembled,
concentrated and coagulated in the purest, the most resistant and the most perfect of
earthly matters, we call it our stone. And we can certify that any undertaking which does
not have this spirit for guide and this mater for basis will never lead to the proposed
objective.~Dwellings

Ultimately the sulfur of gold holds it and becomes this envelope, otherwise like Fulcanelli says iron's sulfur is closer to that of gold and he says they are really the same sulfur at different stages of evolution, so this sulfur would be utilized in the way of the poor of course, but like I said in the beginning every agent needs its patient to act on for the level of subtlety we are working with, we move this spirit from its beginning volatile and subtle nature always towards a more fixed one, with matters that match its nature if we are wise..."Non transire posse abuno Extremo ad alterum absque medio"-Golden Chain of Homer(subtle/volatile-corpreal/fixed) always minding hermetic doctrine in preserving this spirit even though it is invisible, and the only thing visible about it is its action until unless which time its takes to corpreal form.

And I would add, that this beginning astral spirit is in most texts called the "common mercury" but was never intended to be vulgar mercury, so don't fool yourselves with the texts of Sendevogius, this common mercury which is in no terms to be confused with the common hydragum, passes through six heavenly halls before he fixes his residence in the seventh, at this point he is called philosophical mercury, so we see in the end, really there is no amalagm path of vulgar mercury with vulgar gold, it was always meant to be a philosophical amalagm....of course the puffers and sophists may not agree, but they were never counted in the number of the philosophers so......;)


Taking as an example Moses’ gesture it will suffice to sharply strike this rock ([*223-1] -
-- lepas) of arid and dry appearance three times in order to see the mysterious water that
it contains, spring forth. It is the first solvent, common mercury of the sages, faithful
servant of the artist, the only thing he needs and that nothing can replace according to the
testimony of Geber and of the most ancient Adepts. Its volatile quality which allowed
philosophers to assimilate this mercury to the common hydrargyrum, is moreover
emphasized on our bas-relief by the tiny lepidoptera wings (Greek [*223-2], [*223-3] ---
lepidos-pteron) affixed to the shoulders of the symbolic monster. However, in our
opinion, the best name that authors have given to their mercury seems to be Spirit of
magnesia. For they call magnesia (Greek [*223-4] --- magnes, magnet) the coarse
feminine matter which attracts by an occult virtue the spirit enclosed beneath the hard
shell of the steel of the sages. The latter, penetrating like a burning flame into the body of
the passive nature, burns, consumes its heterogeneous parts, drives away the arsenical
(leprous) sulphur, and animates the pure mercury it contains and which appears in the
conventional form of a liquor both humid and igneous --- the fire water of the Ancients --
- which we call Spirit of Magnesia and universal solvent~Dwellings.

I wish I could put flashing lights around this quote, all the master wise said the same....I could fill the page with their quotes:

Its volatile quality which allowed philosophers to assimilate this mercury to the common hydrargyrum


If Basil Valentine gives philosophical mercury the nickname of pilgrim or traveler ([*235-1] ---
stibeus) (29), because it must, says he, go through six celestial cities before fixing its
residence in the seventh; if Philalethes affirms it is our only path ([*235-2] --- stibia), this
is not sufficient to invoke that these masters claimed to designate common antimony as
the regenerator of philosophical mercury

Of course we cannot come by the sun with out by way of the moon:


Hermetic philosophy teaches us that bodies have no action on bodies and that only spirits
are active and penetrating (9). It is they, these spirits, these natural agents, that provoke in
the midst of matter the transformations which we observe there, yet wisdom demonstrates
through experimentation that bodies cannot form among themselves anything but easily
reducible, temporary combinations. Such is the case of alloys, some of which are
liquefied by simple fusion, and of all saline compounds. Similarly, alloyed metals
maintain their specific qualities in spite of the diverse properties which they take on in
the state of association. We can then understand of what usefulness the spirits can be in
releasing the metallic sulphur or mercury when we know that they alone are capable of
overcoming the strong cohesion which tightly binds these two principles between
themselves.It is essential first to understand what the Ancients meant by the generic and rather vague
term of spirits.
For the alchemists, the spirits are real influences, although they are physically almost
immaterial or imponderable. They act in a mysterious, inexplicable, unknowable but
efficacious manner on substances submitted to their action and prepared to receive them.
Lunar radiation is one of these hermetic spirits

garvolt2002
04-10-2012, 11:58 AM
Hi Rogerc
Many thanks for a great post once again. Can you comment further on this process which seems to be the common thread in many of the great alchemical writings?


There are different ways to attract... some subjects used in alchemy are based exactly as we observe their qualities and action in nature and of course they are naturally magnetic, their virtue is as a very exact magnetic quality put there and hid by the creator, limestone is one of these, the other way is based on an attraction which utilizes an action or interplay developed by subjects of opposite polarities, here is where we play with the mechanics that Cyliani gave on the subject...for example.....in the letter from Perard to his disciple where he describes the work of Hermes Unveiled which I have annotated with his comments here below so you can read more clearly:

This statement shows the magnet used to lay the trap.


So yes here we have the two metals whose polar natures makes them a magnetic for the spiritus mundi, but of course they don't touch it, and like Cyliani says there is a magnetic salt present with mars and venus and at the right time of the year, this magnetic salt will drink up this astral spirit and as always from the beginning captation to the final coction of the stone, the work is always about capturing and fixing this spirit onto a medium prepared to receive it, we move therefore from the most subtle and volatile salt in the beginning as an envelope for this captured spirit to the most fixed sulfur in gold in the end....in other words the whole subject called the operation of the sun, the magnum opus (and this goes for any path, don't fool yourselves) is about capturing the solar essence and pinning it.... the whole work can best be summed like this:

Now you need to seal the prison doors with Mars and Venus on guard. Is it possible to elaborate more on this aspect?

thoth
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Thanks Roger for this great insight.

When you say "pinning the solar essence"This reminds me of Cadmus pining the snake to the oak tree with javlin (iron i guess) which I think Fulcanelli also refers to.(There is also the pic of flamel's - *the crucified snake on the cross with iron nails)

I guess - the snake being mercury (although old Celtic pagan religions who worshipped Sun used symbol of snake) not sure if the oak referring to oak salts ie potassium carbonate, or some other more symbolic meaning of oak.

Just wondering if we could be talking about iron pyrite here- they have a high sulphur content....

rogerc
04-10-2012, 11:35 PM
If the moderators feel this is getting off topic please feel free to relocate it :)


Hi Rogerc
Many thanks for a great post once again. Can you comment further on this process which seems to be the common thread in many of the great alchemical writings?



This statement shows the magnet used to lay the trap.



Now you need to seal the prison doors with Mars and Venus on guard. Is it possible to elaborate more on this aspect?

Indeed it is the key to the work and the most difficult subject to discover in our art. Its all centered around the parable of Mars and Venus caught in adultery and a love net is cast around them, to catch the product of their love.


This story of Mars and Venus Caught in a Net comes from a public domain, old translation, by Samuel Butler, of Homer's Odyssey VIII ll. 266-369.
Meanwhile the bard began to sing the loves of Mars and Venus, and how they first began their intrigue in the house of Vulcan. Mars made Venus many presents, and defiled King Vulcan's marriage bed, so the sun, who saw what they were about, told Vulcan. Vulcan was very angry when he heard such dreadful news, so he went to his smithy brooding mischief, got his great anvil into its place, and began to forge some chains which none could either unloose or break, so that they might stay there in that place. When he had finished his snare he went into his bedroom and festooned the bed-posts all over with chains like cobwebs; he also let many hang down from the great beam of the ceiling. Not even a god could see them, so fine and subtle were they. As soon as he had spread the chains all over the bed, he made as though he were setting out for the fair state of Lemnos, which of all places in the world was the one he was most fond of. But Mars kept no blind look out, and as soon as he saw him start, hurried off to his house, burning with love for Venus.

Now Venus was just come in from a visit to her father Jove, and was about sitting down when Mars came inside the house, an said as he took her hand in his own, "Let us go to the couch of Vulcan: he is not at home, but is gone off to Lemnos among the Sintians, whose speech is barbarous."

She was nothing loth, so they went to the couch to take their rest, whereon they were caught in the toils which cunning Vulcan had spread for them, and could neither get up nor stir hand or foot, but found too late that they were in a trap. Then Vulcan came up to them, for he had turned back before reaching Lemnos, when his scout the sun told him what was going on. He was in a furious passion, and stood in the vestibule making a dreadful noise as he shouted to all the gods.

"Father Jove," he cried, "and all you other blessed gods who live for ever, come here and see the ridiculous and disgraceful sight that I will show you. Jove's daughter Venus is always dishonouring me because I am lame. She is in love with Mars, who is handsome and clean built, whereas I am a cripple- but my parents are to blame for that, not I; they ought never to have begotten me. Come and see the pair together asleep on my bed. It makes me furious to look at them. They are very fond of one another, but I do not think they will lie there longer than they can help, nor do I think that they will sleep much; there, however, they shall stay till her father has repaid me the sum I gave him for his baggage of a daughter, who is fair but not honest."

On this the gods gathered to the house of Vulcan. Earth-encircling Neptune came, and Mercury the bringer of luck, and King Apollo, but the goddesses stayed at home all of them for shame. Then the givers of all good things stood in the doorway, and the blessed gods roared with inextinguishable laughter, as they saw how cunning Vulcan had been, whereon one would turn towards his neighbour saying:

"Ill deeds do not prosper, and the weak confound the strong. See how limping Vulcan, lame as he is, has caught Mars who is the fleetest god in heaven; and now Mars will be cast in heavy damages."

Thus did they converse, but King Apollo said to Mercury, "Messenger Mercury, giver of good things, you would not care how strong the chains were, would you, if you could sleep with Venus?"

"King Apollo," answered Mercury, "I only wish I might get the chance, though there were three times as many chains- and you might look on, all of you, gods and goddesses, but would sleep with her if I could."

The immortal gods burst out laughing as they heard him, but Neptune took it all seriously, and kept on imploring Vulcan to set Mars free again. "Let him go," he cried, "and I will undertake, as you require, that he shall pay you all the damages that are held reasonable among the immortal gods."

"Do not," replied Vulcan, "ask me to do this; a bad man's bond is bad security; what remedy could I enforce against you if Mars should go away and leave his debts behind him along with his chains?"

"Vulcan," said Neptune, "if Mars goes away without paying his damages, I will pay you myself." So Vulcan answered, "In this case I cannot and must not refuse you."

Thereon he loosed the bonds that bound them, and as soon as they were free they scampered off, Mars to Thrace and laughter-loving Venus to Cyprus and to Paphos, where is her grove and her altar fragrant with burnt offerings. Here the Graces hathed her, and anointed her with oil of ambrosia such as the immortal gods make use of, and they clothed her in raiment of the most enchanting beauty.



The way Cyliani puts it the two must be shut up in a temple under the right conditions. It takes a profound imagination to be certain. Some like Starkey still stuck on antimony considered the metals themselves in iron and copper, "Starkey's net (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Net_(substance))":

The Net, in alchemy, is an alloy of copper and iron, whose crystal structure induces a network pattern on its surface. It was described in the 17th century by the Harvard-educated alchemist George Starkey.

Starkey produced the substance by following what he regarded as a recipe, encoded in classical mythology, for part of the process of achieving the philosopher's stone. The relevant myth involved the god Vulcan finding his wife Venus (alchemical symbol for copper) in bed with the god Mars (alchemical symbol for iron)

Starkey's interpretation rested on typical alchemical associations, construing Vulcan as a stand-in for fire, Venus for copper, and Mars for iron; Vulcan, the craftsman of the gods, having made a metal net for the purpose of hanging the adulterous couple from a high ceiling, Starkey saw the use of iron to reduce antimony sulfide at high temperature to antimony regulus, and combining it with copper to produce the "network" on the alloy, as fulfilling the real meaning of the story.

Isaac Newton described his own synthesis of the Net before Starkey in his secret notebooks (alchemy being a serious crime in England in its time) and created a theory like Starkey's, of mythological tales as secret alchemical codes

...... still....Roger Guasco better informed and closer to the right path uses realgar(arsenical sulfur), with the nitrate salts of iron and copper in a water bath for 40 days. Some say indeed that it is these two metals, compiled in some ingenous fashion to conduct the hermetic spirits of the sun and moon unto the substrate magnet, which may work as well albiet much slower but perhaps in a purer fashion, but of course there is always two sides to every coin, and indeed I find that Cyliani does not say the two metals themselves, but the material of the two metallic natures which was the one you needed to search out from the beginning....which brings us back to this quote from Aesch Mezaraph :
Lancea; in the Study of the Metallic Natures, the History of Phinehas, Numbers, c. 25, v. 7, belongs to this place. By the Fornicators are understood the (Masculine) Arsenical Sulphur, and the (feminine) dry Water unduly mixed, together in the Mineral.

By the Spear of Phinehas is meant the Force of Iron acting upon the Matter to cleanse it of Dross: By which Iron, not only is the Arsenical Sulphur killed, but also the Woman herself is at length mortified;

Which falls in line with this quote that I gave ealier of course all of this I am only rehashing at this time since I first presented it here: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture/page34 Post #334


Taking as an example Moses’ gesture it will suffice to sharply strike this rock ([*223-1] -
-- lepas) of arid and dry appearance three times in order to see the mysterious water that
it contains, spring forth. It is the first solvent, common mercury of the sages, faithful
servant of the artist, the only thing he needs and that nothing can replace according to the
testimony of Geber and of the most ancient Adepts. Its volatile quality which allowed
philosophers to assimilate this mercury to the common hydrargyrum, is moreover
emphasized on our bas-relief by the tiny lepidoptera wings (Greek [*223-2], [*223-3] ---
lepidos-pteron) affixed to the shoulders of the symbolic monster. However, in our
opinion, the best name that authors have given to their mercury seems to be Spirit of
magnesia. For they call magnesia (Greek [*223-4] --- magnes, magnet) the coarse
feminine matter which attracts by an occult virtue the spirit enclosed beneath the hard
shell of the steel of the sages. The latter, penetrating like a burning flame into the body of
the passive nature, burns, consumes its heterogeneous parts, drives away the arsenical
(leprous) sulphur, and animates the pure mercury it contains and which appears in the
conventional form of a liquor both humid and igneous --- the fire water of the Ancients --
- which we call Spirit of Magnesia and universal solvent

Of course we know Vulcan is Hephastus and he is lame and leprous because of arsenic poisoning which is not his fault but his parents for begetting him, and Apollo, the sun is the "re" part of the re-graal anagram of realgar like Guasco says, it is he King Apollo who oversees the whole matter, Hephaestus and Venus(our dry water mercury) are already present in the ore, which is the material of the two metallic natures, arsenic and sulfur as they hold prison venus, but she does not like her betrothed husband, she is in love with mars who frees her with his body prison, so she prefers to lie with him instead and we find this was the operation that Fulcanelli alluded to to strike at this dry and arid leporous rock three times, that is with three operations repeated:
If you want to
possess the griffin --- which is our astral stone --- by tearing it from its arsenical ganque,
take two parts of virgin earth, our scaly dragon, and one part of the igneous agent, which
is that valiant knight armed with the lance and shield. [*152-1] (Ares), more vigorous
than Aries, must be in a lesser quantity. Pulverize and add the fifteenth part of this pure,
white, admirable salt, washed and crystallized several times, which you must necessarily
know. Intimately mix it; and then, following the example of the painful Passion of Our
Lord, crucify it with three iron nails, so that the body dies and can then be resurrected.
This done, drive away the coarsest sediments from the corpse; crush and triturate the
bones; mix the whole thing on a slow heat with a steel rod. Then throw into this mixture
half of this second salt, extracted from the dew that fertilizes the earth in the month of
May, and you will obtain a body clearer than the preceding one. Repeat the same
technique three times; you will reach the matrix of our mercury, and you will have
climbed the first rung of the ladder of the sages. When Jesus resurrected the third day
after his death, a luminous angel clothed in white alone occupied the empty sepulcher

Of course if we know how to read the parable in its completeness we come to understand, why Venus chose to lie with Mars over the other Gods, we understand why the female Gods stayed home when Hepheastus called for justice, we understand Mercury's comments and we understand the repariations owed to Hephaestus that Neptune will end up paying! And the final state and condition that we find Venus, our dry water now freed in a rainment of the most enchanting beauty, who melts even Sol.

garvolt2002
04-11-2012, 02:02 AM
Such a great story and the secrets of Fixation revealed in it,



Meanwhile the bard began to sing the loves of Mars and Venus, and how they first began their intrigue in the house of Vulcan. Mars made Venus many presents, and defiled King Vulcan's marriage bed, so the sun, who saw what they were about, told Vulcan. Vulcan was very angry when he heard such dreadful news, so he went to his smithy brooding mischief, got his great anvil into its place, and began to forge some chains which none could either unloose or break, so that they might stay there in that place. When he had finished his snare he went into his bedroom and festooned the bed-posts all over with chains like cobwebs; he also let many hang down from the great beam of the ceiling. Not even a god could see them, so fine and subtle were they. As soon as he had spread the chains all over the bed, he made as though he were setting out for the fair state of Lemnos, which of all places in the world was the one he was most fond of. But Mars kept no blind look out, and as soon as he saw him start, hurried off to his house, burning with love for Venus.

Now Venus was just come in from a visit to her father Jove, and was about sitting down when Mars came inside the house, an said as he took her hand in his own, "Let us go to the couch of Vulcan: he is not at home, but is gone off to Lemnos among the Sintians, whose speech is barbarous."

She was nothing loth, so they went to the couch to take their rest, whereon they were caught in the toils which cunning Vulcan had spread for them, and could neither get up nor stir hand or foot, but found too late that they were in a trap. Then Vulcan came up to them, for he had turned back before reaching Lemnos, when his scout the sun told him what was going on. He was in a furious passion, and stood in the vestibule making a dreadful noise as he shouted to all the gods.

"Father Jove," he cried, "and all you other blessed gods who live for ever, come here and see the ridiculous and disgraceful sight that I will show you. Jove's daughter Venus is always dishonouring me because I am lame. She is in love with Mars, who is handsome and clean built, whereas I am a cripple- but my parents are to blame for that, not I; they ought never to have begotten me. Come and see the pair together asleep on my bed. It makes me furious to look at them. They are very fond of one another, but I do not think they will lie there longer than they can help, nor do I think that they will sleep much; there, however, they shall stay till her father has repaid me the sum I gave him for his baggage of a daughter, who is fair but not honest."

On this the gods gathered to the house of Vulcan. Earth-encircling Neptune came, and Mercury the bringer of luck, and King Apollo, but the goddesses stayed at home all of them for shame. Then the givers of all good things stood in the doorway, and the blessed gods roared with inextinguishable laughter, as they saw how cunning Vulcan had been, whereon one would turn towards his neighbour saying:

"Ill deeds do not prosper, and the weak confound the strong. See how limping Vulcan, lame as he is, has caught Mars who is the fleetest god in heaven; and now Mars will be cast in heavy damages."

Thus did they converse, but King Apollo said to Mercury, "Messenger Mercury, giver of good things, you would not care how strong the chains were, would you, if you could sleep with Venus?"

"King Apollo," answered Mercury, "I only wish I might get the chance, though there were three times as many chains- and you might look on, all of you, gods and goddesses, but would sleep with her if I could."

The immortal gods burst out laughing as they heard him, but Neptune took it all seriously, and kept on imploring Vulcan to set Mars free again. "Let him go," he cried, "and I will undertake, as you require, that he shall pay you all the damages that are held reasonable among the immortal gods."

"Do not," replied Vulcan, "ask me to do this; a bad man's bond is bad security; what remedy could I enforce against you if Mars should go away and leave his debts behind him along with his chains?"

"Vulcan," said Neptune, "if Mars goes away without paying his damages, I will pay you myself." So Vulcan answered, "In this case I cannot and must not refuse you."

Thereon he loosed the bonds that bound them, and as soon as they were free they scampered off, Mars to Thrace and laughter-loving Venus to Cyprus and to Paphos, where is her grove and her altar fragrant with burnt offerings. Here the Graces hathed her, and anointed her with oil of ambrosia such as the immortal gods make use of, and they clothed her in raiment of the most enchanting beauty.

rogerc
04-11-2012, 04:37 AM
Thanks Roger for this great insight.

When you say "pinning the solar essence"This reminds me of Cadmus pining the snake to the oak tree with javlin (iron i guess) which I think Fulcanelli also refers to.(There is also the pic of flamel's - *the crucified snake on the cross with iron nails)

I guess - the snake being mercury (although old Celtic pagan religions who worshipped Sun used symbol of snake) not sure if the oak referring to oak salts ie potassium carbonate, or some other more symbolic meaning of oak.

Just wondering if we could be talking about iron pyrite here- they have a high sulphur content....

You posted this response while I was working on post #111.....it answers you questions. :) But yes with three iron nails we simulate the passion of the christ and with the final blow after the third striking his side is pierced from which issues a profusion of blood but more importantly water.....the dry type which doesn't wet the hands.

rogerc
04-11-2012, 04:54 AM
Such a great story and the secrets of Fixation revealed in it.

Glad you appreciated it ;)

Midas Solomon
02-04-2014, 07:48 PM
I'm unsure how adding impurities like iron nails to the ferment will do anything but slow or even cease your experiment. Iron is an expression of impurities within the enviroment that our prima materia is exposed to that dwarfs it's evolution; and thus in my opinion should never be seen within our work except perhaps the stand which may hold your alembic or retort - or even the cover which houses your water bath.

Considering Alchemy has been taking students since even before the last silver age (about six times longer than the Bible has been around) I'm uncertain what any of our physical work has to do with Christ (Yassimin Joseph) or the Catholic Pyramid.

But I'm new here within this forum but not Our Magistery; and maybe, just maybe what I have read on the nails are the cryptic writings of another Adept - But this is the beginning of the Age of Aquarius and thus all secrets have become open to those who have the refined senses needed to understand them.


But...As I continue to read...I continue to see more evidence of post inquisition information...

Is there a section within this Forum (this is my second time ever speaking within forums - and thus I must admit my ignorance of working knowledge of them) that I could find people more interested in the works between 12,000BC and 1600AD?

Awani
02-04-2014, 08:55 PM
Is there a section within this Forum (this is my second time ever speaking within forums - and thus I must admit my ignorance of working knowledge of them) that I could find people more interested in the works between 12,000BC and 1600AD?

No one will ever know how deep the rabbit hole really is...

:cool:

Midas Solomon
02-04-2014, 10:05 PM
I know of many rabbit holes and find most - likely all - to run into the central vein of harmonics, resonance and energy interactions within the motion of their own inequalizations we dub Nature; but the meaning to this particular Rabbit Hole you obscurely speak of has evaded me.

To which do you speak?