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Awani
04-12-2012, 12:10 AM
Not sure where to place this, but since it is mind related I put it here... anyone got a better suggestion? Edit: moved to Shamanism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

Anyway I always wanted to be able to do this, but never got around to even really trying it out. I have also had problems with meditation being so fucking hyper... perhaps it could be a cure for hyper-active behavior but I don't see it as a problem. My speed makes two life times fit into one... he he

So any tips on how to achieve this? Any good site with tricks?

Also has anyone tried psychedelics and also done natural OBE? If so is there a difference in the out of body journey (which you can have in both states)?

Lastly has anyone travelled to a friends house, seen what the friend is doing and then after the OBE called to check if this was correct? I mean does the OBE happen in our physical realm or is it like psychedelics in the mind or in another dimension?

:cool:

MarkostheGnostic
04-12-2012, 03:56 AM
I had only one, unforgettable astral projection in 1972. I would lie down to sleep in the late afternoon. There are tricks, like eating something salty and placing a glass of water across the room, but...On this day, I suddenly found myself suspended outside the 2nd floor bedroom window, facing south, about a dozen feet in the air, and about half a dozen feet south of my bedroom window. The neighborhood was silvery-blue, with silvery edges to curb lines and edges. I realized I was in two places at once, and then looked down to see my legs dangling in the air. When my vision was directed downwrad, I saw no legs or body. I was overwhelmed with fear. The fear initiated the sensation of being whisked backward very rapidly and suddenly my body jack-knifed in bed, my legs and arms shooting upward and the feeling one has in a roller coaster when your stomach drops. I jumped off the bed and ran to the window. I have detailed this in the book I'm working on.

On another occasion, while trying to project while lying on the floor, I visualized the Sun, and then, a 100 watt clear light bulb (as if the visualization was somehow going to damage my inner eye). The yellow-white ligt expanded and began to hum. I could still feel my body although powerful bliss was overwhelming it. I could feel the smile muscles tightening into a huge grin. Then, again, fear. I realized I was paralyzed. My sense of embodiment did not vanish THAT day, neither my mental identity, but it does seem to be a lower state of Nirvikalpa, or a higher Savikalpa samadhi that ensued. True Nirvikalpa (or Asamprajnata samadhi) was another year away, but that is another story. I never had more than a partial rolling-off the bed astral projection after that.

My best friend told me of his experience of needing to urinate, going to the bathroom where all lines were shifting off their plane in typical silvery-blue light, when he too realized that he was in two places at the same time, and physically sat up in bed. Robert Monroe's book Journeys Out of the Body was encouraging. So was Aleister Crowley's directions.

III
04-12-2012, 06:47 AM
Not sure where to place this, but since it is mind related I put it here... anyone got a better suggestion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

Anyway I always wanted to be able to do this, but never got around to even really trying it out. I have also had problems with meditation being so fucking hyper... perhaps it could be a cure for hyper-active behavior but I don't see it as a problem. My speed makes two life times fit into one... he he

So any tips on how to achieve this? Any good site with tricks?

Also has anyone tried psychedelics and also done natural OBE? If so is there a difference in the out of body journey (which you can have in both states)?

Lastly has anyone travelled to a friends house, seen what the friend is doing and then after the OBE called to check if this was correct? I mean does the OBE happen in our physical realm or is it like psychedelics in the mind or in another dimension?

:cool:


Hi Dev,

Also has anyone tried psychedelics and also done natural OBE? If so is there a difference in the out of body journey (which you can have in both states)?

The answer to that is a yes for both, and yes one can have or experience in both states.

As far as if there is a difference, that is difficult to say. As Monroe said, there are a number of varieties. Within categories I would say that they are the same. Then there are death experiences on psychedelics and as natural "NDE" or maybe "DE" with recurrance.

thoth
04-12-2012, 09:30 PM
Hi,*
I once had a type of OOB experience while dreaming. I woke up on the road where I live, and knew I was Not in my body. I got so thrilled with the realisation and planned to see if I could go to my sister on other side of country, but my heart speeded up with the excitement and I went back to my body

as I remember Muldoon says heart beat needs to be under 40 bps, this is a fail safe so you don't OOB while driving the car

One trick I do try is to have lucid dream, by planting a trigger symbol or experience in advance of going to bed, so if you are really thirsty, say after a night on the beer, I always dream of drinking a litre of cola, so I say to myself if you dream of cola, you will realise you are asleep and so now try to fly and wake up. Another trigger is when I find myself flying I say - hold I can't fly so must be asleep, and then try to become awake in astral body.

they say when you dream of flying you are actually travelling in your astral body, and the sense of movement is what causes dream of flying. I have very frequent flying dreams and always feel I've had a really refreshing sleep

the idea is most people only hover a few inches in astral body, above physical body, but when separation is wider you soak up more "cosmic energy" or rather What we might call Spiritus Mundi

Sylvan Muldoons classic book is well worth looking at, as well as Monroes other book Far Journeys

Maybe some of us could have an astral meet up

Happy flying :)

theFool
04-14-2012, 06:26 PM
So any tips on how to achieve this? Any good site with tricks?
There is the technique of binaural beats (which was invented by Monroe if I remember well). Here http://www.bwgen.com/ you can download oOBE presets and listen to them when you go for sleep, they work.


Also has anyone tried psychedelics and also done natural OBE? If so is there a difference in the out of body journey (which you can have in both states)?
The plant Salvia produces OBEs very similar to natural ones. There is a class of drugs called dissociatives that can induce this state of "dissociation" between the astral body and the physical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative). Between them is salvinorin, ketamine, ibogaine..

thoth
04-16-2012, 11:18 PM
I did try some of the Monroe ideas - I built one of Monroes devices from plans in a hobbyist electronics magazine. I found this beat frequency caused my stomach to be a bit unsettled, so did not go too far with this. I felt it was forcing things too much. You can get CDs of Monroes with these tones.

Not sure if I read it on this website or elsewhere, but someone said that if you find yourself in an OOB or lucid dream, that by looking at your hands, it provokes a realisation that you are in non physical mode. That's makes sense to me.

horticult
04-17-2012, 11:23 AM
4 flying easy trigger just see moulin rouge movie


& pls report success

solomon levi
04-20-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't have a lot of time to write on this today, but I'll give a start.
First the body needs to be relaxed. Not as a rule, but it's generally a good start.
So what I used to practice while going to sleep was to relax my body starting
at the toes. Well, first tense your whole body - squeeze every muscle and hold
your breath and push and then suddenly let go and relax everything. Do this 2 or 3 times.
Then take a few deep relaxed breaths and start at your toes and tell them to relax.
Imagine you feel (sometimes you really do feel it) a tingling or vibration, humming
or buzzing in your toes, sort of like they fell asleep. Or see light in them or warmth...
all these associations may appear. Anyway, just go up the body telling it to relax and
feeling the vibration... toes, feet, ankles, calves...
When you've gone all the way to your head/face, double check your body for any remaining tension.
Be sure your shoulders and neck are relaxed and also allow your jaw to drop slightly open.

So if you've gotten that far and are still awake/aware, and your body is buzzing, you're very close to
getting out. Sometimes you'll notice you can't move your body, like it's paralysed.
If you're close but not out, there are several things to try.
Imagine rolling out... or imagine you are on a swing and swing out - grab something instead of
swinging back... or do the Monroe technique where you focus the vibrations into a ring and
send it up and down your body... or reach with your hand through the floor...

Oh - in my experience, it helps if you're not laying flat but lay with your back and head
propped up a bit or a lot. This little difference tells your body and your subconscious that you
are doing something other than going to sleep.

Another simple thing to practice, although it may interfere with your sleep if you have to
wake up for work or something, but just lie there and tell yourself something like "while my
body sleeps my mind stays awake and aware" and just watch your body fall asleep while
"you" remain vigilant. In other words, try to watch your body fall asleep.
Or, if it is dark enough, try to fall asleep with your eyes open. This has worked for me before also.

Awani
05-02-2012, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the replies. I am still digesting some of this stuff.

:cool:

solomon levi
06-17-2012, 12:25 PM
http://serpentrioarquila.blogspot.com/2012/06/lucid-awareness.html

Awani
10-27-2016, 12:50 PM
Once the whole body is asleep if you can push further you will experience the vibrational state which is the chakra system opening and allowing the spirit to separate, the chakras are like magnets that keep the spirit intact.

So how can you be certain that your mind is awake? When I have had lucid dreams I experience worlds that are not real, although my mind is awake. But in OBE, from what I understand, the mind goes into "real" worlds (this one or other ones)... BUT how can you know that whatever you experience in OBE is not simply part of the "dream"?

What have you gathered from looking at those experiences with a critical or questioning mind (if you ever have that is)?

:cool:

ArcherSage
10-27-2016, 02:14 PM
So how can you be certain that your mind is awake? When I have had lucid dreams I experience worlds that are not real, although my mind is awake. But in OBE, from what I understand, the mind goes into "real" worlds (this one or other ones)... BUT how can you know that whatever you experience in OBE is not simply part of the "dream"?

All is the mind. The physical world is materialized ether pulled down into existence from the mental plane. Dreams are possible realities within yourself that teach you lessons about your past, as well as clues to your correct path in the future. Lucid dreaming is taking control. The lucid dreamer can manifest the mental plane into the physical plane easier. As Hermes said All Is Mind, everything you see HAS been created, and IS being created. (by you and everyone else) And astral projection is different than Lucid Dreaming and standard dreaming. Dreams are possibilities that you witness, Lucid Dreams are taking control which gives you the ability to meet your fears and past road blocks head on with a conscious mind, not a sub conscious one. Astral projection is the spirit/mind being PROJECTED outward away from the body and taking it other places. You can visit the physical world in this form OR visit other planes, most of them that you have created already. The sacred cities of Shambala and the like all exist in the astral planes. These places always look the same, the only thing that changes is your experience while there. The astral plane is pretty consistent in staying one way, sometimes it blends with the dream world and window or something will be in a different place.

Andro
10-27-2016, 02:21 PM
So how can you be certain that your mind is awake?

No loss of consciousness during the entire journey. Fully conscious exit and re-entry, for starters.

All those I know (myself included) who 'travel' OOB know this very well.

However, in a more 'general' sense, one cannot be certain of (almost :)) anything... The mind is not (awake), ever - all that occurs is phasing from one 'hallucination' to another.

The difference at 'physical' death is that the the process is a tad less 'reversible' :)

Also, since this came up, lucid dreams are somewhat more likely to lead to other (parallel?) realities/creations/universes, compared to fully conscious OOB.

But that's my own experience. Results may vary...

Awani
10-27-2016, 02:32 PM
Astral projection is the spirit/mind being PROJECTED outward away from the body and taking it other places. You can visit the physical world in this form OR visit other planes, most of them that you have created already. The sacred cities of Shambala and the like all exist in the astral planes. These places always look the same, the only thing that changes is your experience while there. The astral plane is pretty consistent in staying one way, sometimes it blends with the dream world and window or something will be in a different place.

I have had the same dream many times. And the places look the same. So again how are you certain you are not only having lucid dream?


No loss of consciousness during the entire journey. Fully conscious exit and re-entry, for starters.

I have many times been fully conscious, even gone so far as believing I was 100 % awake... only to find out I was still asleep.

I am not rejecting what you guys are saying... I am only trying to understand "what" (if anything) "proof" you have that tells you that you are infact not just having a very lucid dream - which seems to be an OBE. Also when in that state have you looked at the experience with critical/questioning eyes? Or has those OBE only been accepted without question?

What is the diffrence between OBE and Astral Projection? I thought there was none.

:cool:

Andro
10-27-2016, 02:45 PM
I have many times been fully conscious, even gone so far as believing I was 100 % awake... only to find out I was still asleep.

I mentioned above that in OBE/'astral' travel (same thing basically, except that one can travel/OBE 'beyond' the astral plane as well), there is no loss of consciousness when 'exiting' the body and when 're-entering' it.

It is surely possible be fully conscious in a lucid dream, but with no awareness of how you got there - unlike OBE, where one is fully aware/awake with no interruption from departure to landing.

There's also a cool trick to use lucid dreaming (not regular OBE) to 'jump' to a different reality of your choosing and remain there, but I'm still practicing at this time.

Awani
10-27-2016, 03:29 PM
unlike OBE, where one is fully aware/awake with no interruption from departure to landing.

Ok, this is the answer I was looking for... however I have a few times not noticed falling asleep and entered a very realistic dream thinking I was still awake.

I guess in the end we can't really be certain about anything. If we are living in a dream within a dream... and then trying to understand which dreams within that dream is the real dream or just dreams... well its a can of worms. And finally only by having a full OBE can I personally understand it.

:cool:

Ghislain
10-28-2016, 10:00 AM
I have only had about two lucid dreams that I can remember, and no OOB experience so far,
But I would imagine a simple way to check if you really went OOB is to get a third party to do
something in a room, say chalk a number on a board and then you go to that room in your
OOB state and read the number. Would that not be proof?

Ghislain

JDP
10-28-2016, 11:17 AM
I have only had about two lucid dreams that I can remember, and no OOB experience so far,
But I would imagine a simple way to check if you really went OOB is to get a third party to do
something in a room, say chalk a number on a board and then you go to that room in your
OOB state and read the number. Would that not be proof?

Ghislain

Yes, but only under controlled conditions so that no cheating can take place. But don't worry, no one has managed to pull that one yet, not any more than "remote viewers" can pull off what they claim they can do. Maybe, just maybe, because such things are nothing but delusions. I don't know, just "maybe" ;)

Andro
10-28-2016, 11:43 AM
Yes, but only under controlled conditions so that no cheating can take place. But don't worry, no one has managed to pull that one yet, not any more than "remote viewers" can pull off what they claim they can do. Maybe, just maybe, because such things are nothing but delusions. I don't know, just "maybe" ;)

Have you ever experienced 'sleep paralysis'? It's one of the best, sometimes naturally occurring 'launchpads' for OBE. If it ever occurs to you/anyone naturally (it frequently occurred to me in my teens and early 20's, that's how I got started), you can use it as a preliminary state for OBE. Instead of 'fighting' your way back to regaining muscle control and instead of just fading into sleep, just remain calm and conscious, don't attempt to move physically, and simply 'will' yourself out of body. You might be surprised to find yourself 'floating out' and then you can verify it for yourself, from direct experience. If for some reason there is fear of not being able to return while 'out', there is a simple technique to catapult you back into the body: Just focus strongly on physically moving your big toe and you'll be back in an instant.

One thing to note (again) is the fact that there is no loss of consciousness during proper OBE. You remain fully conscious/aware all the way from before exiting and until after re-entry.

When you have become adept at leaving the body, you can set up any test of your liking to confirm that it wasn't mere 'hallucinations' (relatively speaking).

One of my own tests was to set up an out of body 'meeting' with a friend from halfway across the world, and afterwards independently email each other the details of the interaction we had during the encounter. It was an approximately 80% match.

Awani
10-28-2016, 02:23 PM
To be fair if a direct experience has not been had no one can claim that something is delusional. In a way that is an insult.

For instance it might seem that I view Flat Earth people as delusional, but never to the extent that I reject the opinion that they might not be... after all I have not looked at Earth from space. I have very little doubt about OBE... and what I think most people who deny OBE fail to understand is that "is there a difference if the OBE actually happens, or if it is just a dream"...

Not really... because everything is a dream. :)


Have you ever experienced 'sleep paralysis'?

I know about this, but have not had it yet. Perhaps because it would be scary (first time), so subconsciously I might fear it and push such an event away so it doesn't happen. I panic when I am tied up... although I don't think I ever have been tied up actually... but I know myself pretty well and being tied up is one of my phobias (perhaps past life trauma, who knows). As a kid I have been "held down" in fights and such and I always thought that was much worse than just getting smacked.

Although if I get sleep paralysis I will for sure do my best to "leave".

:cool:

ArcherSage
10-28-2016, 02:51 PM
Many of us have OBE every night. The spirit can slightly hover out of the body like 2 sheets of paper on top of each other. Many people wake up around 3 am and are stuck and cant move because their body is in sleep paralysis and their spirit is not fully back into the body. The near death experience is similar in many ways to the OBE as most of us have a similar experience with the white light tunnel effect. Most of the time when I astral project, I begin to see a white tunnel and I fly through it and when I get to the other side I am out. It is important to have something covering your eyes while you practice this so that if you open your eyes and can see your room, you know you are out of body because you shouldn't see anything. The first time I projected I opened my eyes and could see through my eye cover. I moved my hand over to my wall near my bed and it went through the wall. I also noticed my vision was expanded especially the peripheral vision, it was almost like have a full 360 vision all the way around you.

Andro
10-28-2016, 02:55 PM
To be fair if a direct experience has not been had no one can claim that something is delusional. In a way that is an insult.

I don't feel insulted :)


I think most people who deny OBE fail to understand is that "is there a difference if the OBE actually happens, or if it is just a dream"...

Not really... because everything is a dream. :)

And OBE is one of the ways to explore other dreamscapes, not 'normally' accessible in what we perceive as the 'waking' state... (which is also a dream, etc...)


if I get sleep paralysis I will for sure do my best to "leave".

Cool! Let me know when you manage?

The 'fear barrier' at sleep paralysis is mentioned in many books dealing with OBE.

Awani
10-28-2016, 02:59 PM
I don't feel insulted :)

I was more speaking for the whole human race. Sometimes I represent them. ;)

:cool:

ArcherSage
10-28-2016, 03:03 PM
It is important to remember that everything is an experience, you cannot recreate your experiences for me, and vice versa. For most people, experiencing something for themselves is all the proof they need. It is hard to explain the OBE because unless you have done it, you don't know the difference. But if you want my opinion of what the biggest difference between OBE and dreams is, it would have to be the actual sensation of being out of the physical body. When you are out, it is as if you are playing a video game for the first time trying to get used to the controls. You cant even move where you want to go, it takes practice. You are literally learning to crawl before you walk, in the spirit world. You feel weightless, yet somehow also feel like you weight a ton. It is an odd feeling that takes time to get used to.

Murgen
12-01-2016, 03:42 PM
Hi all,

I am a totally beginner in the OBE science.

Practitioners, can you please advise me some interesting teachings, books, both theoretical and practical ?

So many authors, so many different advises ... I do not want to feed Amazon too much :-)

Many thanks for your help,

Murgen

Andro
12-02-2016, 09:38 AM
My OBE adventures began spontaneously around the age of 22, although I had the sleep paralysis phenomenon occur before that age, but was too scared to use it and take it to the next level.

After a year or two of countless spontaneous departures from the physical body, the 'free rides' stopped (it no longer happened spontaneously).

So, I decided to train myself to do it consciously. This was long before I even heard of Monroe, etc...

In the beginning I used binaural beats extensively, more precisely some of the earlier releases of Dr. Jeffrey Thompson (the Theta Waves form his 'Brainwave Suite'). For a while, I also used a 'Master-Mind' type of device, for auditory and visual (flickering lights) beat stimulation as well. In time, however, I outgrew these 'crutches'.

On a side note, I also think that the term 'astral travel' is a misleading misnomer, because there is more than one plane that one can non-physically 'travel' to, such as the physical, the astral and beyond. The Astral realm is comparable to 'connective tissue' between the Physical Plane and a much 'higher' series of Planes. Also, in addition to the planes of any particular 'bubble universe' (like the one we are currently 'occupying'), there are innumerable other 'universes' that can be accessed/visited consciously. I would loosely define traveling between the different planes as 'inter-density' travel, and traveling between alternate/parallel universes as 'inter-dimensional' travel.

Anyway, I trained myself quite obsessively to reach sleep paralysis at will (and DEEP relaxation), until I finally managed to do it, overcome the 'fear barrier' and 'lift off'. All my initial conscious 'travels' where still close to the 'physical' realm. I liked to pass through doors and walls, to 'fly' around, to 'fly' to other remote locations - but this eventually got boring and I lost interest in exploring the physical plane, with the few exceptions when I needed to check a few matters for myself.

Over the years, gathering 'flight hours' in both OBE and shamanic journeying (they're slightly different), the 'method' has somehow autonomously 'evolved' into a more simple 'phasing' of consciousness.

I started to no longer need the sleep paralysis, or any other types of very deep relaxation.

Here's a video of Tom Campbell, explaining the 'Phasing" method - much easier than "rolling out", etc...

You can either watch the entire video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fcKezLW__Q) or start HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fcKezLW__Q&feature=youtu.be&t=640), for when he begins to explain the actual "Phasing" technique.

zoas23
12-02-2016, 12:57 PM
There are many techniques to have an OBE.

In my own case I do not relate them at all to sleep paralysis (I never had a sleep paralysis episode and I wouldn't be able to induce one).

I began to get interested in them due to my favorite book, "The theater and its double" by Antonin Artaud... I got interested in his idea of the "double" and probably redefined it.

The techniques do NOT work for everyone, some persons can never do it, for my is quite easy (we all have strong areas and weak areas).

I agree with the idea of Andro, it is possible to visit different realms or planes which have a very different nature.

In my own case it's is slightly similar to "dreaming", but I am completely awake and the images are stronger than in a dream... or more "real".

When I began to do it using a self-created technique, I would spend hours watching at a white wall is silence and without moving (with my eyes open and avoiding the "hallucinations" -if you do it, you will probably begin to see distortions or shapes in the wall... the point is to make them go away and watch it without as it is).

I later began to watch the white wall with my eyes closed. Some time later I was able to mentally walk to the wall and touch it.

Another technique I used when I began was facing a mirror and transporting my consciousness to the image in the mirror and become the image looking at my physical body. Again, the KEY is to avoid hallucinations here (i.e, a typical one is to begin to see yourself with just one eye, or without a nose... it's not exactly hallucinations, since you can make them go away if you *switch* your mind to a normal state). Once you have achieved such thing, you can do it with your eyes closed.

The point of these exercises is to detach the mind and the body... and enhance and control your visual psyche.

My favorite experiences are quite "low" when it comes to the planes which are possible to visit. They are related to visiting a library where I can pick a book and read it.

My guess is that it is easier for those who are very "visual" oriented.

When it comes to devices, I am a fundamentalist of the Dream Machine ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamachine )... though I would not say that I get OBE experiences wit it, but something different (I would call it a very visual synopsis of the patterns of the unconscious mind).

It's not as hard as it seems, it takes years of practice... and maybe the biggest key is to have fun (having fun as the opposite of feeling frustrated).

When you were a kid you probably enjoyed to play that you were a pirate and you had a stick that was your sword and you mentally created your ship, a stormy ocean, a water dragon with whom you had to fight, etc... Such thing was not an OBE, but it's probably the "starting point" or VERY related.

If you don't have a very visual nature, my suggestion is to practice seeing a white wall (or white screen) with your closed eyes without "decorating it". That one can be your "starting matter"... if you can manage to do it, you can "break on through to the other side" later.

Murgen
12-02-2016, 09:49 PM
Dear Andro & Zoas,

Many thanks for having kindly shared your experiences.

Always a pleasure to read true ones.

So, I have some points to investigate now :-)

I'll give a feedback if pertinent !

Voltaire
12-08-2016, 11:03 PM
Anyway, I trained myself quite obsessively to reach sleep paralysis at will (and DEEP relaxation), until I finally managed to do it, overcome the 'fear barrier' and 'lift off'. All my initial conscious 'travels' where still close to the 'physical' realm. I liked to pass through doors and walls, to 'fly' around, to 'fly' to other remote locations - but this eventually got boring and I lost interest in exploring the physical plane, with the few exceptions when I needed to check a few matters for myself.



Wow, this is absolutely amazing!
This is the first time I've found someone with your unique gifts; at least to the level you describe.

I'm very interested in any information you can share on the subject: any materials you researched at the time, videos you watched - anything that could enable someone to replicate these results.

elixirmixer
12-09-2016, 12:42 AM
While Andro has obviously had extensive training in OBE and I certainly agree with his definings of seperate physical/astral as well as beyond, one point that I would like to clarify, is that I do not believe that "staying conscious" is enough to determine the difference between lucid dreaming and OBE.

But rather; I define the difference between OBE and Lucid Dreaming all in the EXITING. OBE requires an exit. While lucid dreaming can occur in the mind while still in body (while not aware of the body)

You can tell the difference between them quite easily in fact. In a lucid dreaming state, you will have a 'shadow' of the physical body! A kind of 'Salt of Mercury' situation...

While, in an OBE, you will most likely have no body, unless of course you have developed 'the light body' 'the diamond body'
Jesus: "when you have fashions an eye in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, then you will enter into the Kingdom.'

I have consciously held onto my 'awareness' and moved straight from an awake state, into a lucid dreaming state, without lose of conciousness, I literally watched the dream world 'build' itself I front of my minds eye, very interesting experience indeed. But WITHOUT EXIT, this still was no where near as potent and "REAL" than my true OBE experiences.

Also, IMO, the obvious difference is that OBE (at least my experiences of it) are extremely invigorating, you know when it happens because it just blows your mind and leaves your body tingling like it's on fire when you return.

Lucid dreaming, CAN get like that, but is not always, sometimes lucid dreaming is still quite vague, the soul still having a filter between the light and love of God, and itself, which filter is our gross body.

elixirmixer
12-09-2016, 12:45 AM
Perhaps some would say "lucid dreaming is OBE" I believe in some cases you leave the body, while in others you do not, and that leaving the body is not a pre-requisite of lucid dreaming, only the intent to stay aware...

Murgen
12-28-2016, 12:09 AM
For those interested in using them for OBE, note that Tom Campbell has created his own set of binaural beat audio files : https://www.mbtevents.com/store.html

He even built a program to elaborate your own sound : http://gnaural.sourceforge.net/

Thanks for letting me know Campbell Andro !

Quarrox
01-17-2017, 07:44 PM
Hi,

very interesting topic! I tried several times to achieve this state, so far it failed. Although i think i got pretty close. The first time, suddenly pulsating rings appeared in front of my eyes, diminishing to the center while the next ring was appearing, the background was purple and the rings were oscillating between green and yellow. That was impressive.

The second time i laid in the bed, totally relaxed, awake but with a totally empty mind. Suddenly i had this feeling of falling down into a pitch black abyss, as if your body was taking off at the same time, it gave me quite a shock. According to my wife this means a unconscious OBE was about to happen but the astral/mental body got suddenly pulled back into the body.

My wife is most of the time (not always) able to perform OBE's willingly, but ultimately no longer practicing it.

I would give you the following suggestions (although everybody might need a different approach!)

1. Relax in bed
2. Preferably at night
3. Preferably laying on the back
4. Meditate, empty your mind completely. If thoughts appear, let them float by.
5. Assure that every part of the body is 100% relaxed
6. Stay focused, your mind should be awake, sharp, clear, but empty. Don't fall asleep.
7. You can try to move or lift your arm or another body part mentally, not actually doing it.
8. Be patient and be confident

pierre
01-17-2017, 09:50 PM
Hi everybody.
My experience with OOB was quite fast. After relaxing my body for a few minutes in my bed lying on my back, got the rare feeling of weightlessness that made me move unconsciously and there ended my test.
However in a moment, I remember the feeling of expansion of my limits of perception, as if my mind or my energy, to be part of everything around me... the wall, furniture, air, space...
The physical sensation seemed to be suspended by the force of giant fan blowing under me, holding my whole body.
You don´t think that the OOB is real until you experience it. But it is...

Andro
03-19-2017, 07:14 PM
There's also a cool trick to use lucid dreaming (not regular OBE) to 'jump' to a different reality of your choosing and remain there.

I'm going to reveal a rather cool 'trick' here, but one must be VERY careful if attempting this. Also, it's definitely not for tourists/beginners. And even if one is very well trained in navigation, one can still get 'lost'.

Here's what you have to do if you wish to 'jump' to a different/parallel reality and STAY there (it doesn't have to be TOO different, there are realities with only relatively minor variations that you might enjoy or want to experience):

1. Train yourself to 'wake up' in a lucid dream.

2. Thoroughly explore the reality you find yourself in. See if you like it. If not, you can always 'jump' again later.

3. If the alternative reality is to your liking, simply find a quiet place (preferably with a bed) and GO TO SLEEP right there.

4. When you wake up, you wake up in the same (alternate) reality you went to sleep in. The general 'rule' is that you always wake up in the same reality where you consciously went to sleep.

5. If you 'die' in the alternative reality, you wake up in the one you initially went to sleep in. In other words, dying makes you wake up in your 'base' reality again. So, going to sleep 'there' completes/finalizes the 'jump', but dying 'there' brings you right back.

6. This way, you can have full lifetimes of experiences in other realities, while only moments pass in your 'base' reality. When you die 'there', you wake up at 'base'. I myself have had several lifetimes in alternate realities, some even lasting 50 years or more.

7. HOWEVER, certain realities do NOT have the 'die-back-to-base' function. You may not 'return to base' after dying there. There have been, throughout occult history, cases of 'jumpers' disappearing from the beds they went to sleep in, never to return.

8. The above actions have to be performed in full awareness/consciousness. There are however occurrences of people 'waking up from sleep' while still in a dream (it feels very real) and then waking up again in the 'base' reality. Those aren't conscious 'jumps' and usually don't last very long, because of not consciously 'going to sleep' in the alternative reality.

Still, sometimes there are little 'holes' or 'blackouts' in continuity and you may still have a full alternative lifetime without consciously going to sleep 'there' first - but this is quite rare.

9. We are all unconsciously 'jumping realities' ALL THE TIME. Whenever it happens, the entire history of the 'new' reality is being rendered as actual memory, replacing all 'previous' memory sets/databases, and we usually never even notice the slightest difference (perhaps a little Déjà-Vu sometimes). It feels like it has always been like that. Most of the time(s), however, the changes are relatively minor and there's not a lot of history/data to re-render, relatively speaking. MAJOR unconscious jumps are extremely rare.

10. Conscious minor jumps are possible by very few highly trained initiates. This is made possible by their fully & consciously internalized realization that ALL is a dream & NOTHING is real, and therefore reality-jumping becomes a matter of merely 'blinking' with just the right dose of expertly fine-tuned intent. Such (relatively) minor 'jumps' are a significant key to 'magic' or to otherwise 'inexplicable' phenomena, such as 'miracles', 'walking on water', levitation, etc...

Don't try this at home :)

PS: The term 'Base Reality' is used here in a relative way, referring to what one currently regards as his/her 'waking' reality, from which the process is initiated. So-called 'base realities' DO fluctuate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM

✂--------------------------------------------------

Awani
03-20-2017, 12:23 AM
Good list.

I have had lengthy conscious dreams (although not years), but I have had unconscious dreams that have lasted for ages. So basically (if I understood correctly) if you want to have a 50 year life in the dream you can never go to sleep in that "dream"? Since the 50 year dream only takes maybe ten minutes (or whatever), I then assume that you could live 50 years and never really become tired... i.e. no need for sleep.

I one time woke up in the dream maybe 7-8 times, and it became difficult knowing when I had actually woken up. But once I am fully awake in "base reality" there is a different feeling... although this might be - I suspect - a trick of the mind due to the fact that the dream becomes a memory and looses its "real" qualities.

I'm currently experimenting with the above 10 points in a kind of reversed perspective. In other words "base reality" I view as the dream... and when I go to sleep in the dream and return to "base reality" [what is normally called dreaming], I try to stay lucid just as I did when I was awake/dreaming [in reality as non-weirdos call it]. So far it has been very interesting.

:cool:

Andro
03-20-2017, 04:35 AM
So basically (if I understood correctly) if you want to have a 50 year life in the dream you can never go to sleep in that "dream"?

No, you can go to sleep as much as you want :)

The "trick" is to go to sleep AND wake up in the same reality. That's how you stay there, that's how you 'finalize' or 'stabilize' the jump.

The general 'rule', as I wrote, it that you wake up in the same reality that you went to sleep in.

Dying 'there' is what will usually bring you back to 'base-camp'.


I then assume that you could live 50 years and never really become tired

If it's a reality version in which sleep is required, then you will need to sleep. This is the case for most 'horizontal' jumps. There's also the 'vertical' ones, which I may address in a future post.

Jumping horizontally to an 'adjacent' reality is in most cases not very different from your 'base' one. You still need to sleep, eat, shit, etc... Again, the 'trick' is to know that you (almost) always 'wake up' in the same reality where you last 'went to sleep'.


Good list.

It's not a 'good' list. It's a GREAT list! :p

This being said, information in itself is quite useless. But if it triggers some 'inner knowing' and/or if it is applied as prescribed, very cool stuff can happen :cool:


✂--------------------------------------------------

Awani
03-20-2017, 10:58 AM
Ok, yes well then I would say that to be able to wake up in the same reality is a skill way harder to master than simply fall asleep conscious. I guess because I have done the latter so I know it is achiveable with regular practice. Anything never done before always seems harder until it has been done. LOL. But to be fair I've never consciously tried to go to sleep within the dream.

When one is sleeping inside the dream I imagine the trick is to fall asleep conscious (just as one did at the beginning of the rabbit hole when one fell asleep in "base reality". This is the only way to wake up in the same reality, otherwise one might wake up at "base reality" again. Would you agree?


...applied as prescribed...

Yes I agree. Even when I talk philosophically I am always in the state of mind regarding its application. If the talk is simply philosophy without ever any intention of trying it out then - generally - such talk is waste of time. Although for entertainment it can be fun... but normally I prefer when it can be applied as you say. I guess this is the difference between an armchair philosopher and an experiential one.

:cool:

Andro
03-20-2017, 01:13 PM
When one is sleeping inside the dream I imagine the trick is to fall asleep conscious (just as one did at the beginning of the rabbit hole when one fell asleep in "base reality"). This is the only way to wake up in the same reality, otherwise one might wake up at "base reality" again. Would you agree?

When you become lucid/awake in the alternate/'dream-time' reality, all you have to do is find a bed/mattress/whatever and go to sleep there, exactly the same way you go to sleep every day in your 'normal' reality. No special 'going-to-sleep' skills are required.

Then, when you wake up, you automatically wake up in the same reality where you LAST went to sleep (in this case, the alternate/'dream-time' reality). Unless of course you're being a naughty boy and after going to sleep in the alternate reality, you enter yet another lucid dream and go to sleep there as well - which would facilitate yet another 'jump' :)

But technically, there's not much to it really, except practice & perseverance.


I've never consciously tried to go to sleep within the dream.

Well, that's the whole 'hack' :cool:

Awani
03-20-2017, 01:58 PM
Ah I see what you mean. Simply by being conscious and going to bed you are already locked in.


Unless of course you're being a naughty boy...

There is a danger of that.

:cool:

Andro
03-20-2017, 02:46 PM
Ah I see what you mean. Simply by being conscious and going to bed you are already locked in.

Yes.


There is a danger of that.

Well, you can live out 'lives within lives' (kind of "Inception" or "Arabian Nights" style), but when you die in one life after another, you end up back at 'base-camp' anyway.

The 'danger' is that not ALL 'alternate realities' have the "die-back-to-base" function.

I will give some guidelines on how to easier recognize such 'traps' in a future post, so people don't accidentally fall asleep there :)

Murgen
03-21-2017, 10:37 PM
Very interesting, thanks Andro.

Can we deduce that, when we physically die in the virtual reality that we call our "current normal conscious life" (at least seemingly conscious), we also go back to a "base camp" ?

Or maybe it is different in such a case, as this virtual reality we currently consciously live is the "main one" specially chosen for the particular state of our consciousness. Therefore it would be the base camp of the base camps.

Awani
03-22-2017, 01:07 AM
So technically when you are fully conscious in a dream it is basically a lucid dream (at least how I define lucid dream when I talk about it)?

So normally when someone become aware they are "lucid" they begin to do all kinds of fun stuff, but really they should find a bed and go to sleep? Or maybe one does not become distracted of having a lucid experience if one is aware from the very moment of falling asleep?

As you say going to bed in the dream "locks" the person in the dream, but why does it not make the dreamer re-enter dreaming? The reason I say this is whenever I have a lucid dream, and I for some reason STOP having a lucid dream and fall back into dreaming, it is usually due to some distraction... or forgetting to stay conscious... and if I go to bed that is really letting go... you follow my query? As I understand it you would have to sleep in some awareness then, right?

Finally what if the dreamer wants to get back to base camp? Suicide?

When I was a child (circa 5-12 years) I had a nightmare often, at least weekly... and every time I had the nightmare I knew it was a nightmare, although I could not control it... but I always committed suicide by drowning myself. And in the moment of gasping for air and finally dying I always woke up. So I have killed myself so many times... but it is equally unpleasant each time... but far better than having to face the EVIL witch of Disney's Sleeping Beauty that was chasing me. LOL.

:cool:

Andro
03-22-2017, 08:41 AM
So technically when you are fully conscious in a dream it is basically a lucid dream (at least how I define lucid dream when I talk about it)?

Yes.


So normally when someone become aware they are "lucid" they begin to do all kinds of fun stuff, but really they should find a bed and go to sleep?

You can have fun and have a 'normal' lucid dream, or find a bed and go to sleep if you want to stay there (in the alternate reality).


Or maybe one does not become distracted of having a lucid experience if one is aware from the very moment of falling asleep?

Maintaining awareness during the whole process of falling asleep is not necessary. You can, for example, go to sleep with the intention of becoming aware wherever you find yourself, with the added intention to go to sleep there (if you like it and want to spend the rest of a life there :))


As you say going to bed in the dream "locks" the person in the dream, but why does it not make the dreamer re-enter dreaming? The reason I say this is whenever I have a lucid dream, and I for some reason STOP having a lucid dream and fall back into dreaming, it is usually due to some distraction...

Once you are 'locked' in the alternate reality, it becomes your base-reality. You go to sleep there, you dream there, you do everything within the framework of the reality you find yourself in. You can re-enter dreaming or any other variation. All you need to stay 'there' is to 'wake up' in the same reality you LAST went to sleep. It takes some practice and intent.


Finally what if the dreamer wants to get back to base camp? Suicide?

Once you're 'locked there', THAT is your base-camp. There is no other. The one you left may occasionally surface like a vague, distant and foggy memory, if at all. All your memories will be like you have lived in that reality ever since you remember. You will probably have no recollection of the 'die-back-to-base' switch. Unless you somehow remember it fully OR you find yourself in a reality similar to this one, where there is also a forum where this thread is posted. And still, would you kill yourself in THIS reality based on this thread alone, hoping to wake up in another "previous" base reality? I think not...
It would be like committing suicide in this current 'base-camp' based on faith alone.

_____________________

This whole 'method' of 'jumping' - it's easier done than said :)


✂---------------------------------------------------

Andro
03-22-2017, 08:50 AM
Can we deduce that, when we physically die in the virtual reality that we call our "current normal conscious life" (at least seemingly conscious), we also go back to a "base camp"?

I would like to say 'yes' or 'no' with some degree of 'certainty', but I can't :)

There's an infinity of realities/variations. As you gradually start remembering more and more between 'Jumps', at some point you feel you've 'had enough' of horizontal reality-hopping and start looking for something beyond 5th dimensional.


Or maybe it is different in such a case, as this virtual reality we currently consciously live is the "main one" specially chosen for the particular state of our consciousness. Therefore it would be the base camp of the base camps.

I doubt it.

Awani
03-22-2017, 08:56 AM
Ok I see how you mean/think regarding all this. But there are some more aspects not clear to me currently.

In your last comment regarding faith alone: does that mean you still are not certain? I mean I would be nervous, but very confident if I jump out of an airplane, because I have a parachute. And I would not be concerned with informing others to sky dive either.

If you know 100 % a base camp awaits then you could say: sure, do it

Another thing is NDE. If we are locked into a dream now, how can we explain NDE?

Edit: we posted at the same time, so ok we are not certain about this reality... so then in the new dream reality, an NDE is not possible?

:cool:

Andro
03-22-2017, 09:08 AM
there are some more aspects not clear to me currently

As there should be :) Same here. I am (at least consciously) far from knowing or having experienced all the aspects and intricacies of it...


Another thing is NDE. If we are locked into a dream now, explain NDE [...] so then in the new dream reality an NDE is not possible?

Sure it's possible. NDE is not death. NDE is quite similar to OBE, technically speaking.

Also, NDE is a matter of 'density' (visiting a more 'subtle' plane of the same reality), while reality-hopping is a matter of 'dimension'. The two are not synonymous.

Awani
03-22-2017, 09:21 AM
If I live in my dream and have an NDE that would - by logic- mean that I would come to our current reality for a brief moment and then go back to the dream.

I guess I have done this, now when I think of it, in a sense. You know when you sleep very deep and have a strong dream and you hear the alarm (or something), and wake up and are in a semi-awake state... and then drift back into the dream. Often because you want to know how it will end. Technically an NDE even if the dream is not lucid. Perhaps.

:cool:

Andro
03-22-2017, 09:26 AM
If I live in my dream and have an NDE that would - by logic- mean that I would come to our current reality for a brief moment and then go back to the dream.

Not necessarily. You could simply go to a more subtle level/plane of the reality you are having the NDE in. And even if you do briefly return to a previous 'base', it will feel like any other dream. And it could be ANY other reality, not necessarily the immediately previous 'base-camp'.

✂----------------------------------------------------------

Andro
03-22-2017, 09:48 AM
Something worth noting: Most (if not all reports) of 'afterlife scenarios' that we have access to in this reality, come from people who either go OOB or have NDEs. None of them come from people who actually died. Unless we're talking about channeling or seances and Ouija Boards, which are extremely unreliable means of communication. You never know who you're really talking to on the other side of the line...

elixirmixer
03-22-2017, 10:25 AM
So I have killed myself so many times... but it is equally unpleasant each time... but far better than having to face the EVIL witch of Disney's Sleeping Beauty that was chasing me. LOL.

:cool:

Ahahaha! Dev your a classic mate

4 Andro: Three questions.

If an apple on the table is in the 3rd dimension, and an apple in my mind is in the 4th dimension, would an apple in the astral planes be considered a 5th dimensional apple?

Secondly, if someone has subconscious blockages towards OBE, would you have any advice for unblocking?

Thirdly, are you aware of, or have written about yourself, any other 'dream-hacks' such as this?

----------------------------

Lucid dreaming is really fun, it's mysterious and exciting and somewhat eerie, yet I've always felt that there must be some purpose something we are suppose to do.

This sleep-swap sounds like a part of that puzzle.

I do remember two dres in specific that had these different 'level', in fact, as I'm writing now I remember that one 'jump' I woke up in a slightly different reality for
The REAL(?) one, and then I woke up again from that dream into our real reality. The ol' double wake up.
The other dream, was more of a 'going-up' kind of scenario, in fact in that dream I started at a very low place, and I jumped a few times and by the time I stopped I felt I was well and truly in the astral realms, it felt more real than real(?)life.

Very cool topic boys. Peace.

Murgen
03-22-2017, 09:13 PM
Andro,

On the assumption that there is no "base-camp" once we physically die, do you consider the possibility that dying could be the end-point of the unit of consciousness we are ?

Andro
03-22-2017, 09:33 PM
On the assumption that there is no "base-camp" once we physically die

There's an infinity of "base-camps". One can't possibly run out of them. One can, however, get 'tired' of what I call 'horizontal' 5th dimensional 'reality-hopping' and may want to move on.


do you consider the possibility that dying could be the end-point of the unit of consciousness we are?

Depends how you define 'unit of consciousness' and how you define 'dying'.

In a sense, we 'die' all the time, and yet we always/ever ARE.

Awani
03-23-2017, 12:40 AM
There's an infinity of "base-camps". One can't possibly run out of them. One can, however, get 'tired' of what I call 'horizontal' 5th dimensional 'reality-hopping' and may want to move on.

From my perspective of existence: to be homesick or to come home makes all the difference. At least for me (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2194-Poetry&p=48680#post48680).

:cool:

Andro
03-23-2017, 07:14 PM
If an apple on the table is in the 3rd dimension, and an apple in my mind is in the 4th dimension, would an apple in the astral planes be considered a 5th dimensional apple?

Not necessarily. If you see it from a 3D point of reference, it is. Do you know how a 5th dimensional apple looks like?

Just to get preliminary idea, google '4th dimensional cube images' and compare what you see with the 'regular' 3rd dimensional cube we're all familiar with...


if someone has subconscious blockages towards OBE, would you have any advice for unblocking?

Any subconscious blocks can get in the way. Especially unaddressed fears/phobias. But no need to make TOO much of it.
You don't need years of psychotherapy to overcome the blocks and get OOB. Just relax your body and mind, let go and don't let fear rule any step of the way.
Also, don't smoke pot. It hinders OBE and lucid dreaming.

This being said, subconscious issues are quite likely to surface in various guises during conscious OBEs. That's where the 'therapy sessions' can eventually kick in...


are you aware of, or have written about yourself, any other 'dream-hacks' such as this?

Yes, and the last year has been especially eventful and initiatory for me in this regard. When so inspired, I intend to gradually share more on my blog.


Wow that grammar is shocking..

It's horrifying, I know :) Just take a look at this:


I do remember two dres in specific that had these different 'level'

"two dres in specific" ? ? ?

---------------------------------------------

elixirmixer
03-24-2017, 04:30 AM
Pot is a hindrance ey... This could be the reason of my failure.

From my experience, 'smoke' of pretty much any variety, tends to increase tension within the brain, and that in itself would be a great hinderance.

Yes I've had a serious computer melt down and it's very frustratin and time consuming to edit my grammer on this phone.

I'm getting off the weed then. The 'realms' are a requirement I think if I am to continue to grow spiritually.

In regards to psychotherapy in the realms, how does one address these events. Let's say, a being is addressing me, aggressively, and I perceive that it is my inner 'addict', after meeting such an elemental or the like, what would one 'do' in order to 'cast out' or assimilate this energy?

Or is it an acceptance thing where you just let the monster eat you?

I'm sure some of this sounds rediculous to experienced OBE's but I have only had limited success so I cannot talk from experience.

Do you believe Andro, that 'jumping' up levels, can grow the soul? What else can it do for us?

Andro
03-24-2017, 09:49 AM
In regards to psychotherapy in the realms, how does one address these events. Let's say, a being is addressing me, aggressively, and I perceive that it is my inner 'addict', after meeting such an elemental or the like, what would one 'do' in order to 'cast out' or assimilate this energy?

Or is it an acceptance thing where you just let the monster eat you?

Too much information can also be a hindrance, I think information is also subject to the 'law of diminishing returns'.

It's best to practice, experience and see for yourself. I prefer to share some 'techniques' and 'hacks' that I've learned, rather than bombarding with too much information about what's in/out there, so as to avoid generating expectations, etc...


I'm sure some of this sounds rediculous to experienced OBE's but I have only had limited success so I cannot talk from experience.

It's not ridiculous. We're all good at some things and suck at others :)

If you practice and persevere, you will see through direct experience.


Do you believe Andro, that 'jumping' up levels, can grow the soul? What else can it do for us?

What I may 'believe' is of no consequence.

You will see through direct personal experience :)

Andro
03-24-2017, 04:46 PM
Regarding the 'Reality Jumping Hack' I recently posted, here's something else I posted a while ago (on the 'Mandela Effect' thread), before I was ready to talk more 'openly' and 'practically' about such experiences:


[...] Shifts in reality perception. Such shifts happen ALL the time, but we (mostly) never notice them, because once such a shift occurs, it comes with its own correspondingly adjusted history, so it appears like it's ALWAYS been like this.

To actually be aware of such a reality shift, one would have to be consciously aware of both timelines, the 'previous' one and the 'new' one, as being equally valid. Also, such shifts can occur on an individual level or on a more massive scale, depending on the nature of the shift.

There are various 'tricks' and 'hacks' to 'jump' between realities on an individual level, but I won't go into details here...

Also, something such reality shifts may have in common is a coupled pair of events that might be considered traumatic (big heartbreak, loss, etc...), encapsulating the transition/cross-fade period on both ends. Such a a transition/cross-fade period can last from seconds to years.

Warmheart
08-15-2017, 01:16 AM
Regarding the 'Reality Jumping Hack' I recently posted, here's something else I posted a while ago (on the 'Mandela Effect' thread), before I was ready to talk more 'openly' and 'practically' about such experiences:
I remember reading your blog about shifts. One my friend also had an interesting view on things, he said that there are thousands of Earth versions co-existing at same time. I don't see much reasons to disregard such approach (especially if to consider the power of Maya), however:

Let's say reality shifted to some other version. What happens with people we know - do they get replaced with some impostors? Do we get replaced by impostors in the other versions of Earth? And if such a shift happens that our friends become foes, and our foes become friends - are they the real people, or are they the fake ones, or is it all just the play of great Maya, the diversity of differentiated forms of Anima Mundi which is just one big entity playing with itself? This entity is our father and mother as well as wife/husband, neighbour and all the people living all over the Earth - all are just one big Spirit which is introspecting itself? So your sworn enemy is the same being as your closest friend and by hurting one we hurt another?

These questions make it feel so lonely on this Earth, as if it wasn't lonely place from the very start to begin with.

Schmuldvich
08-15-2017, 01:37 AM
I remember reading your blog about shifts. One my friend also had an interesting view on things, he said that there are thousands of Earth versions co-existing at same time. I don't see much reasons to disregard such approach (especially if to consider the power of Maya), however:

Let's say reality shifted to some other version. What happens with people we know - do they get replaced with some impostors? Do we get replaced by impostors in the other versions of Earth?
Time is not real and only a means for us to "experience" life.

Warmheart
08-15-2017, 10:01 AM
Time is not real and only a means for us to "experience" life.
I heard such point too. I also heard that after death you can reincarnate in the past, and it makes me feel very uneasy about it, especially what concerns I-XVII centuries. But I think it is still going to be alternate past, and time is actually the flow of change.

When I interacted with one of Spirits of Earth in his own realm, there still was time and space (though space was quite different from ours). But I guess that some might consider Spirits to be part of Maya too.

Awani
08-15-2017, 07:58 PM
Some consider such things, yes. But since everything is part of the whole even Maya is "god". There is a misconception that illusion and maya and trap and such things are bad. It is not black and white. The power lies in what you do about it.

It is delusional to consider maya a problem.

When we watch a Magician make a rabbit vanish in a hat we are not appalled, but amazed. Yet when we consider that we live inside an illusion, then we want to escape. LOL.

There is no escape.

Only surfing, bro.

Ride the wave, and in that motion you become truly liberated.

:p

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 12:57 PM
Mod Note: Continued from HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?5230-The-4-Elements&p=51070#post51070).
___________________________

Have any of you guys attempted astral projection? Apparently Bardon believes that its the control of the elemental powers within the body that allows this shift of the astral matrix from the body.

I love what he said about auras as well, saying that its a great way to be able to tell a persons overall character, good to know if your sick of being fucked over by every person your trying to assist :p


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Axismundi000
08-16-2017, 03:23 PM
Yes I'm reading it right now, brilliant work, I feel it's really having an impact on me, I haven't smoked since i got the book and ive been exercising every day.

Have any of you guys attempted astral projection? Apparently Bardon believes that its the control of the elemental powers within the body that allows this shift of the astral matrix from the body.

I love what he said about auras as well, saying that its a great way to be able to tell a persons overall character, good to know if your sick of being fucked over by every person your trying to assist :p

The most radical part of the astral projection work (not mental projection) is when you can feel your breathing stopping as you come out of the physical body. It takes a bit of getting used to and is very tiring when you start with that work.

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 10:14 PM
May I ask, What are the dangers? Is the Astral body capable of death in the astral realm, aka, if i piss off a larvae, will the fucker eat me?

Is there a particular ritual spell that creates a 'shield'?

I understand these might be silly questions, however, i'm very new to this and I don't want to leave my children fatherless just so I can go visit the moon, if you know what I mean.

Another question, what are the "goals" in the astral realm? find larva and destroy them? make love to crazy forest bitches? I just don't really understand the beneficial purpose yet of travelling into the astral realms....

I suppose that if both my partner and I went into the astral realm, and made love there, that would be a good kind of 'union event' to bring our souls together? Or will her soul get knocked up and she'll have an astral baby and then ill be charged withj some kind of astral child support or something...

OOOHH!! Last question, is there a government in the astral realm?

(Wait ive got more) Is the astral plane, the same as the dream world? Because I know how to move straight from a conscious state, lying in bed, straight into a lucid dreaming state without a lose of consciousness, would this count as an astral project?

elixirmixer
08-16-2017, 10:56 PM
One final question for today I promise:

When we are "trying to focus the mind on one thought" does anyone have any suggestions as to what this thought should be??

Cheers. I used to just meditate on having an epic sex life, which worked, now im looking for more 'spiritual' rewards :cool:

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 12:07 AM
May I ask, What are the dangers? Is the Astral body capable of death in the astral realm, aka, if i piss off a larvae, will the fucker eat me?

Is there a particular ritual spell that creates a 'shield'?

I understand these might be silly questions, however, i'm very new to this and I don't want to leave my children fatherless just so I can go visit the moon, if you know what I mean.

Another question, what are the "goals" in the astral realm? find larva and destroy them? make love to crazy forest bitches? I just don't really understand the beneficial purpose yet of travelling into the astral realms....

I suppose that if both my partner and I went into the astral realm, and made love there, that would be a good kind of 'union event' to bring our souls together? Or will her soul get knocked up and she'll have an astral baby and then ill be charged withj some kind of astral child support or something...

OOOHH!! Last question, is there a government in the astral realm?

(Wait ive got more) Is the astral plane, the same as the dream world? Because I know how to move straight from a conscious state, lying in bed, straight into a lucid dreaming state without a lose of consciousness, would this count as an astral project?

Rain Clark's Bardon companion has a shield technique, also you already know the LBRP.

The goal of the astral realm is to discriminate between phantasm and genuine entities. Larvae are not an issue until later in this work and you can load your hand with Akashi by that point to break apart a Larvae.

If your partner and you both learned the ability to act with all subtle bodies co-ordinated and load genitals with appropriate fluids you are doing sex magic for a specific objective.

Lucid dreaming is an astral technique so yes but it can negatively impact dopamine levels so should be employed sparingly, Bardon does not advocate lucid dreaming if you already do it may as well continue if no harm experienced. You already must of encountered regulating entities via lucid dreaming.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 03:38 AM
Thank you so much Axis for this stuff, it's getting me really pumped and further empowering me to give up all of my addictions for good so thank you.

Break Larvae apart! AWESOME! that's what I was hoping, like an Astral Battle Mage

Is there a difference between an OBE into the Astral Realm, and someone who is Lucid dreaming? Its just that the only way that I know of to 'leave' the body (or maybe more accurately, 'enter' it) is to go straight into the dream world without losing consciousness which I basically achieve by continuously relaxing the body and focusing heavily on the concept of maintaining awareness...

Phantasm vs Genuine entities.... So (please correct me if i'm wrong) there are 'energies' that acquire 'form' due to humanity pissing its life force all over the place with intense emotional thinking, or passions... these can appear as 'entities' but are more like a computer virus, with limited intelligence, and then, you also have 'entities' that are fully conscious, and who have human like intelligence, may even actually be human...

So the goal might be to find some type of benevolently behaved entity, in order to..... have a chat?.. .or something.. and part of the puzzle will be trying to work out whether or not this is an actual intelligent being, or whether its just some 'bad wind' so to speak...

Am I close?

Another question... Bardon differentiates between a Magician and a Kabbalah, by saying that a Magician is working with others, and that you have to 'pay' while a kabbalist through the power of the creative work, works just with himself and the work is 'free'

What is the currency in the Astral Realm? (let me have two guesses) blood or sperm?

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 07:19 AM
Bardon identifies mental projection and astral projection as different and I cannot say for sure which one lucid dreaming is because I have never learned the technique to lucid dream. I would guess it is in Bardon's taxonomy mental projection because the sleeping physical body of the person continues to breath, perhaps even snore.

If you are from a judeochristian background something like the prayer of St Michael or the 23rd Psalm could be memorised so that they could be employed in lucid dreaming if you started to feel upset in your journey.

I would suggest reading Bardon's other 2 instruction books Practise of Magical Evocation and The Key to the True Quaballah along with Rawn Clark's Bardon Companion which I think will fully identify the distinctions Bardon makes between magic and Kabbalah. Apart from that the true currency on 'the astral' and occult in general is the spiritual development and maturity of the person.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 07:52 AM
This is good food for thought. And that is a very nice Psalm, I shall commit it to memory. Well, lets forget lucid dreaming for a moment. WHAT is the dream world? is it the Astral plane? Or is it something else? I'd ask Andro but i've given up asking him questions, he never answers me.

I certainly intend to read the other two books, however, in light of the conversation we had the other day about elementals potentially causing serious health issues, and potentially hurting others, I have decided to MASTER the first book before I dare even think about 'getting involved with entities'

Can I ask a more practical Astral question? (I know that I could figure all this out when I get there however, Ive read in "Mastering Astral Projection in 90 days" that its a very good idea to flood the mind with ideas that concern the astral, making the OBE easier to accomplish)

Question is: When I am in the astral plane, if I think of someone, will I automatically travel to them? I suppose what I'm trying to ask is, how do you navigate?
other really important question, are there "items" in that realm, for instance, surely there would be "the apple". So what happens if I eat an Apple? Will this strengthen my Astral body? Or is it impossible to eat an apple?

I do really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions on this subject, saves me from accidentally killing myself or summoning Belial in my living room.

Is there some kind of super safe summoning that I could do at this very early stage of training? (its very exciting and im finding it hard to hold myself back)

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 09:50 AM
Well, lets forget lucid dreaming for a moment. WHAT is the dream world? is it the Astral plane? Or is it something else?
Man's dreams are definitely not the Astral Plane, they are the subjective inner world.

I'll point the main difference. If you see some person in your dream, he will be doing different things from what he does in reality. But if you see him during your Astral travel, he will be doing exactly what he is doing in reality.

And of course Astral travels are much more realistic than dreams. I'd say even more, they are much more vivid than physical reality. Because that's exactly where you will find yourself right after death of physical body.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 11:50 AM
Thankyou for your input Warmheart! After further consideration that I had today on the subject I came up with the same answer.

The "inner" world that I visit when I maintain awareness into sleep, is blurry, hard to maintain cognisance sometimes, not exceptionally vivid. Now if I compare this to my one and only spontaneous OBE experience, which I can only assume was the astral plane, either that or I teleport-ed thousands of kilometres on the earth plane? Mental projection? not sure, however, all i know is that the experience was EXTREMELY vivid, yes, more vivid than real life.

Hell, every decision i've made ever since was in some way or another effected by that experience, was how vivid it was....

So yes, I agree, dream world is not astral world, at least, not necessarily. I have had lucid dreams, where I travelled "up?" in frequency and dimension, after a few successive "climbs" I entered a place that I believe was CERTAINLY the astral plane, all of a sudden things were EXTREMELY vivid, and I was having a strange chat with a young asian man, who told me that I had entered a place of collective consciousness and that it was a real place and I wasn't dreaming anymore. I think I accidentally destroyed that place, or someone else did, anyway, we were forced to evacuate as the place was heavily bombed. I wasn't sure if I had accidentally done that with my mind or whether or not there were external forces at play, either way, that place was of an equal vividly as my spontaneous OBE experience.

This is a fantastic subject, and I can't wait to escape this fleshy prison, thanks again for your contributions. I hope we can have more chats, do you have experience projecting?

Do you have any ritualistic magic experience?

EM

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 11:50 AM
A super safe beginners technique for beginners Evocation hmmmm...... bit like a super safe beginners technique for jumping out of a plane without any training. In the occult countless people try this and add themselves to the gradually spreading mush at the landing X.

Many people (including myself) as beginners initially turn away from a rigourous training like Bardon gives and do much easier stuff. For example in my case I did some chaos magic Sigil stuff which worked, then mental projection through elemental doorways (tattwas) and tarot trumps as doorways pegged to the tree of life, Enochian Aethyr on a Sunday night teaching kids math on Monday morning. The teacher nickname the kids gave me was 'Vigo' from the ghostbusters cartoon specifically, the red eyes and mullet the energy spilling out of me, not pleasant for me or those forced to be around me. All this stuff and more was often big fun for me but I would have progressed better if I had just stuck with the Bardon. It would have been kinder to those around me also, I'm not entirely sure that a school full of boys likening me to the 'evilist magician in the world' is a good thing even though my occult work was secret, children are so perceptive. A more kudos nickname than those ascribed to my colleagues (e.g. Rat, pussy, swallow don't spit), but is that saying much?

So Elixirmixer you could choose to do as I say not as I did, alternatively instead there is a distinct possibility that as far as those around you perceive you gradually transform into an utter cunt. The choice is yours.

There are various books and online resources about the astral plane and they are less confusing and contradictory than Alchemy texts so I politely refer you to these for the bulk of your questions Elixirmixer.

A film you may enjoy about a beginner and a hired magician doing Evocation:

https://youtu.be/qCdDw0fwBZw

It's out in September on DVD.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 12:06 PM
HAHA Vigo! I hated that guy! EDIT: (oh wait I was thinking of his dickhead little goon from the films) Vigo was that scary warlord sorcerer that was bringing all the pink sludge in. Man that pink sludge had me scared of the bath for weeks when I saw that as a kid! (safe to say now, I NEVER watch horror films)

I'm not sure if this is too personal a question, but what is the best result you have personally had in your life as a result of magic? Have there been any actual physical changes to your body, finances or relationships because of evocational magic?

My intention is basically to master the basics (Bardons first book) then do a quick run through of the exercises in "The practise of evocational magic" but my main goal for all of this training is just so that I can have a strong foundation to Learn the (practical form of) Kabbalah.

May I ask, WHY did you learn magic? WHAT does it do for you? My understanding is that if you use it for your own benefit/profit, that karma comes and bites you three fold. Is this just a wives tale? Am I 'allowed' to use magic to boost my bottom line?

Magic certainly doesnt come as naturally to me as setting up crazy labs and making shitloads of mistakes does, but I think I have some natural gift for it, since my first OBE was completely unexpected and untrained for (and extremely intense)

Is there any hope of shooting lightning bolts out of my wand. Seriously? No, I mean it, its a serious question, can you, for instance, actually gain any level of manipulation of matter in the physical realm using these forms of practise?

Edit: This may seem like of the topic, however, the reason I am learning how to astral project and talking about magic is because true magic is performed in the astral realm. That's why people of todays society think that magic is for fairytales, its because they also do not believe in the astral realm, and as a result, cannot at all see that the two go hand in hand, the astral realm responds heavily to emotionally driven thought-force (magic)

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 12:16 PM
This is a fantastic subject, and I can't wait to escape this fleshy prison, thanks again for your contributions. I hope we can have more chats, do you have experience projecting?
I don't have that much experience with Astral traveling, always too much obstacles. But recently I started exploring and practicing Eastern Occult systems, and I must say, Western system is highly inefficient and misses a lot of key points (best example - proper work with Chakras, Breath, purifications, Astrology system, etc.).

Do you have any ritualistic magic experience?
Yes, relatively extensive one. Evocations are difficult and dangerous practice, I would advice starting from more basic things. While Bardon's book isn't sufficient on its own, it gives a good outline of initial practices.

I would say: energy practice -> purifying and empowering Chakras -> understanding the Supreme Forces behind this world -> very careful invoking and feeling Their power and understanding how to construct Magic Defense, how to cure yourself from various illnesses and how you can influence various events and people -> only then you can somewhat safely do an Evocation. You need to get a special link with the main Supreme Force of this world, it is to be acquired via initial practice. Without that link you will be open and defenseless to all kinds of criminal Spirits from Dark Astral layers.

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 02:52 PM
@Warmheart I disagree, in my view Bardon provides exactly what he described, practical outlines of the first three leaves of the book of Thoth. This is my personal opinion, people may read the material and judge for themselves.

@Elixirmixer I'm not interested in telling you a huge amount about myself, motivations etc they will differ to yours. To answer the specific question yes magic has given me financial freedom. I am not on welfare but do not work, I am below pension age. Sometimes, once every few years for a change. I go and get a job for a few months but the 'wage cuck' mentality of those around me eventually persuades me to hand in notice. I wasn't born in a wealthy family and I'm not incredibly rich, I own my modest home and car and live within modest means. In occult terms I have achieved this without making any kind of pact. This freedom allows me and my wife to pursue Hermetic work, Alchemy Magic and Mysticism. I am not 'lucky' I struggled and sometimes had to fight (occult conflict) to reach this point of being able to more fully pursue the Great Work.

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 03:25 PM
@Warmheart I disagree, in my view Bardon provides exactly what he described, practical outlines of the first three leaves of the book of Thoth. This is my personal opinion, people may read the material and judge for themselves.
I don't think we actually disagree with each other. Bardon really outlined a lot of things, and his 2nd book contains some very valuable information. But his books aren't sufficient on their own. Bardon was a member of some closed order, I had a glimpse of his real practice which is by no means is disclosed in his books. It is like he was putting only 50% of all the stuff he actually worked with.

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 03:36 PM
Whilst Bardon does omit some things they are only needed later on and he correctly observed that by that point the person can obtain the required information by occult means for themselves from for example genii of the zone girdling the earth. I don't think anything extra is needed for his first work; Initiation into a Hermetics.

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 04:30 PM
Whilst Bardon does omit some things they are only needed later on and he correctly observed that by that point the person can obtain the required information by occult means for themselves from for example genii of the zone girdling the earth. I don't think anything extra is needed for his first work; Initiation into a Hermetics.
All people I know who worked with Bardon were stuck on Step III/IV. If you look at those steps, you will have no questions why. Perhaps Bardon was bound by oath of silence, but he actually leaves the readers in obscurity on those Steps.

What you say about Genii of the Zone girdling the Earth - it is vicious circle. Surely those Spirits can teach you a lot, including what is missing in first book and in first half of second book. But to contact them properly, you need to know those things which are missing.

And I must say, it is probably good that Bardon did so. Imagine all the troubles the people would get by trying to contact those Spirits and becoming victims of all kinds of temptations. For those, who knows what is missing in his books, however, his books are very valuable.

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 05:26 PM
All people I know who worked with Bardon were stuck on Step III/IV. If you look at those steps, you will have no questions why. Perhaps Bardon was bound by oath of silence, but he actually leaves the readers in obscurity on those Steps.

What you say about Genii of the Zone girdling the Earth - it is vicious circle. Surely those Spirits can teach you a lot, including what is missing in first book and in first half of second book. But to contact them properly, you need to know those things which are missing.

And I must say, it is probably good that Bardon did so. Imagine all the troubles the people would get by trying to contact those Spirits and becoming victims of all kinds of temptations. For those, who knows what is missing in his books, however, his books are very valuable.

This is utter nonsense I and several others I know have surpassed these early steps years ago. Time and again over literally decades people have come forward pretending they have advancements on Bardon's stuff when they have nothing and pretend. I mean here you are Warmheart and I'm sure these things you claim you could not possibly reveal, right? This is because you are just another chancer alluding to secrets you simply lack. This forum seems to be getting a lot of that lately. I challenge you to clearly and practically explain these alleged missing pieces and I'm certain that at best you will just give philosophising guff. The number of groups who use Bardon's methods but do not officially recognise such or in your instance pretend there are pieces missing and always in the end have nothing substantive. The one thing that helps empty boasters is that many early students experience difficulty with the first few steps of Bardon's training and this allows chancers to try and capitalise on the hapless students difficulties.

Bardon is very clear and I and others have verified his claims by direct practical experience: Initiation into Hermetics is a full solo training program without omissions of anything necessary practical or theoretical. It clearly serves as a solo training program in the absence of a genuine mystery school ( of which sadly there are none currently). There is an amusing regularity to this kind of thing because people are always seeking to hijack Bardon's premier material for self serving use., thus here we go again.

In Wicca the artificial elemental work was at one time presented as ancient teachings in the book of shadows of course it is straight out of Bardon. Then there is the 'great' Seila Orienta and his laughable 4th and 5th keys or the latest stuff showing Bardon recommended runic stuff preWW2 which whilst interesting changes little. Then the controversy of the Veos twins in London (link for that gone). Yet always the bunko artists will keep going because of the quality of Bardon's writings.

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 05:49 PM
This is utter nonsense I and several others I know have surpassed these early steps years ago. Time and again over literally decades people have come forward pretending they have advancements on Bardon's stuff when they have nothing and pretend. I mean here you are Warmheart and I'm sure these things you claim you could not possibly reveal, right? This is because you are just another chancer alluding to secrets you simply lack. This forum seems to be getting a lot of that lately. I challenge you to clearly and practically explain these alleged missing pieces and I'm certain that at best you will just give philosophising guff.
I don't understand why you are so angry. I simply said that without proper system like the one used by Bardon, there will be no success with his books alone. Bardon was a member of several magical circles - some Saturnian Fraternity and adonists. There they were invoking Adonay (as Adonay Elohim) and used powers of IHVH in their ceremonies as well as 7 special powers they say are emanating from the Planets. Their ceremonies were less or more classic but with some personal twists.

No knowledge about those emanations is a blind for Step III, and no knowledge of relevant ceremonies is a blind for Step IV, where you are just tasked with making your own.

There are more details and such, but you wanted some concrete examples, so here they are. And please, don't be so angry, I know there is some fight in the other thread, but such is a human's nature, sometimes they need a fight to prove the rightfulness of their cause. Personally, I am always for Love and Peace and I try to avoid any fights :)

Axismundi000
08-17-2017, 06:04 PM
You sound so reasonable Warmheart whilst saying such nonsense, no specific planetary or creative word initiations are necessary in Initiation into Hermetics and as predicted you are vague, deliberately lacking clarity to be found in the Bardon material itself. In fact whilst info and techniques are obtained from various entities in his later works the earliest outside input is the hand exteriorisation in his first book. So either explain clearly (you cannot) or continue on regardless with vague nonsense as is so common with Bardon pretenders.

Again I repeat the point you ignore Warmheart: I and several others I know surpassed these steps you mention years ago which means these 'blinds' you suggest are simply not there. I'm afraid there is no secret privy knowledge to be hinted at about Bardon's stuff all that is needed is hard work. The only secret stuff is gained from spiritual entities not some human muppet.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 10:42 PM
lol 'muppet' I love when Axis gets revved up, he gets pretty funny.

Okay... I have some more practical questions: (oh, and thankyou axis, your answer to my 'personal' questions was sufficient) I just wanted to know if there were practical advantages in magic.

Okay, so 'evocations' are dangerous, what about 'invocations' and what is the difference?? I suppose with all of this questioning, what I'm trying to do, is find a SAFE magical experiment to perform that will verify the power of magic to myself. Obvious I'm already aware that it's very 'real' however, I want to know through practical experience, without doing anything stupid. Can you guys recommend anything?

Warmheart
08-17-2017, 10:51 PM
Okay, so 'evocations' are dangerous, what about 'invocations' and what is the difference?? I suppose with all of this questioning, what I'm trying to do, is find a SAFE magical experiment to perform that will verify the power of magic to myself. Obvious I'm already aware that it's very 'real' however, I want to know through practical experience, without doing anything stupid. Can you guys recommend anything?
Evocation is summoning some being physically on material plane.
Invocation is, if to put it bluntly, infusing yourself with a power of some being.

All serious workings are based on Grand Invocation or Invocation of God Force. But it requires some specific attunement to it. Getting to this attunement is a long path, and dangerous as itself. My advice would be to look at methods to purify and empower your Chakras, one after another starting from Muladhara. For that, look for works of Satyananda Sarasvati, they are priceless.

elixirmixer
08-17-2017, 11:15 PM
So there are NO safe entities or forces to work with at a beginner level?

If that's the case, then fair enough. What is the advantage of having all the chakras working properly? (In terms of magic) will full chakras assist in the OBE? Is there a particular chakra associated with the spiritual power of OBE?

Schmuldvich
08-17-2017, 11:22 PM
What is the advantage of having all the chakras working properly?
This, in my opinion, is one of the best things anyone can do for their body.

Basically, it allows everything to "flow" properly...allowing for a healthy (mental) mind, a healthy (physical) body, and a healthy (astral) soul...as cheesy as that sounds, it's true!

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 12:09 AM
So there are NO safe entities or forces to work with at a beginner level?
If you will want response like "Who are you to call upon me?" or "Hey, wth are you doing dude? Oh well let me try some of my jokes on you", surely you will get it, but it might lead to dire consequences, because you won't be able to call the real being properly, you won't be able to discern it from various criminal spirits or even from the play of your mind, and you will be totally defenseless at current point. Not to mention, that you might dishonor the being and anger it without even knowing what you could do wrong.

At beginner levels you can only work with some major Forces on terms of invocations, but explaining it will take a lot of space, and it is going off-topic. Basically, working with chakras properly will reveal you tons of things. Just combine it with Bardon material and some other classical texts (written before XVII century) and you will be good. It is the safest and most grateful way.

elixirmixer
08-18-2017, 05:37 AM
Okay, I'm goin gto go train hard, get some practical experienmce and come back to this conversation. I think I almost OBE'd just before when I was making an effort but my body shuts it down because its hard to stay relaxed when your about to die?

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 07:54 AM
All this advice about chakras and yet no practical pointers (as usual). No reference texts or well known organisations that are considered reputable just hey get your chakras sorted guy. My hermetic work has been more with Kabbalah and I haven't done stuff with chakras so I cannot provide suitable references or recommend any organisations.

I repeat Warmheart show me actual clear practical and theoretical methods that are appropriate to steps 3&4 of Initiation into Hermetics. Bardon provides these at every step of his training so you need to show missing parts 'blinds' as you call them but I know you cannot. Rather than actual clear reference texts or clearly explained practical and theoretical instruction you continue to pontificate in a vague manner. Clean your chakras .......man.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 08:17 AM
So there are NO safe entities or forces to work with at a beginner level?

If that's the case, then fair enough. What is the advantage of having all the chakras working properly? (In terms of magic) will full chakras assist in the OBE? Is there a particular chakra associated with the spiritual power of OBE?

There are relatively safe ways to work with various entities at early level not complete beginner level. It may seem paradoxical but such work is actually easier than Bardon's training and this kind of practical material has been around in various forms for over 100 years the fact others have not mentioned it shows the complete lack of even basic practical ability from them perhaps.

Although the Golden Dawn material is often superseded it is pretty much the first stuff published on this kind of work. As I mention this is actually easier stuff then Bardon's training schedule. Using tattwa elemental symbols and Golden Dawn ritual procedures and meditations to open a doorway with the tattwa symbol, call signs and testing methods to check the elemental angel and elementals are not phantasm. The more advance initiate then travels out of body through the tattwa doorway into the elemental realm. This kind of work is initiate level not adept and requires correct application of various Golden Dawn rituals which take some time to perfect as well as the middle pillar exercise. Again I recommend that Bardon's training is much better but this is up to the individual. Source references ( ones I used there are many others): Tecniques of High Magic by Francis King and Stephen Skinner. The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic by Israel Regardie. If you want a really heavy read Magic in a Theory snd Practice (book 4) by Aliester Crowley which to a good extent integrates yoga and magic but the exercises are in tandem. Bardon's Initiation into Hermetics is superior because the Magic and yoga training are fully integrated not presented in tandem like in Crowleys stuff.

Edit; other sources for initiate level spirit contact: The Book of Solomon's Magic by Carrol 'Poke' Runyon, he has an instructional DVD.
Also I have a PDF by a friend of mine called Enochian Spagyrics which shows how to draw an Enochian Angel to a Spagyric Magic Mirror PM me a suitable email and I will send you a copy if you wish.

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 09:51 AM
All this advice about chakras and yet no practical pointers (as usual). No reference texts or well known organisations that are considered reputable just hey get your chakras sorted guy. My hermetic work has been more with Kabbalah and I haven't done stuff with chakras so I cannot provide suitable references or recommend any organisations.
But I had practical pointers in my post № 84 (Satyananda Sarasvati)...

Crowley has bad books. His LBRP and Middle Pillar have potential to block one from progress and/or provide some very illusionary results. He had little knowledge of whatever he was writing about.

And I have a very strong prejudice toward Enochian system. It all seems to be just a trick played by Kelly to constantly extort money from Dee and even to have sex with his wife... I am afraid to say, but working with Enochian beings might be safe, because they simply don't exist, and it is just a game with your mind...

I am not writing all this to anger you or something. I simply want to say that unless someone has done some real work on purifying and empowering himself, his mind will play whatever kinds of tricks it wants on him. And there is such a feature of human: he doesn't like to admit failures - just like in case with Enochian beings - it is hard to admit failure in your magical operation, so mind comes to "help" to make illusion of success.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 10:12 AM
Warmheart Specific to Bardon which I challenged you on your comments in posts are vague and provide no specific practical info to underpin theory which was also vague. Also I note you still haven't provided reference material for those that may be inclined to clean their chakras.

You fear Crowley, think Golden Dawn practice will block progress but say it is from Crowley ( it is not), fear delusion and phantasm is the basis of Enochian material. In fairness to you Warmheart there are whole occult orders who ban Enochian and consider it will cause people to go insane, in which case I must be one of those people because I have done decades of Enochian work.

Your have a view that the vast corpus of Western occultism is blockage, bad and illusory, as you say in your post prejudice.

Unless you actually provide a clear PRACTICAL and more concise THEORETICAL outline for your arguement that there are blinds in steps3-4 of Bardon's material I think perhaps we should simply agree to disagree.

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 10:32 AM
Your have a view that the vast corpus of Western occultism is blockage, bad and illusory, as you say in your post prejudice.

Unless you actually provide a clear PRACTICAL and more concise THEORETICAL outline for your arguement that there are blinds in steps3-4 of Bardon's material I think perhaps we should simply agree to disagree.
I worked with Western occultism for long time, until I got access to some of Eastern Occult knowledge (and, I need to say, to workings of some local wise me). Whatever little bits I have found worth more than I saw in Western occultism for however many years I spent with it.

I already advised a very good author to make a good go with Bardon system in my previous post and post 84... What concerns the work of Bardon's group, this information was gained on basis of trust, perhaps I shouldn't have said it from very start. It isn't like I am trying to hide my tail, but please try to understand, noone will be giving away names/dates/praxis of closed orders unless they have such a permission.

I might give hinters to ritual work, which was in those circles. They all worked basically with specific variations of Key of Solomon (non-Mathers ed.), Abramelin (non-Mathers ed.) and other such books and grimoires, which they somewhat altered for their own work. Delving in those books without good initial practice might result in provocation of mind to start its games. It is also one of the reasons why Bardon avoided any kind of indoctrination in his books.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 10:43 AM
I worked with Western occultism for long time, until I got access to some of Eastern Occult knowledge (and, I need to say, to workings of some local wise me). Whatever little bits I have found worth more than I saw in Western occultism for however many years I spent with it.

I already advised a very good author to make a good go with Bardon system in my previous post and post 84... What concerns the work of Bardon's group, this information was gained on basis of trust, perhaps I shouldn't have said it from very start. It isn't like I am trying to hide my tail, but please try to understand, noone will be giving away names/dates/praxis of closed orders unless they have such a permission.

I might give hinters to ritual work, which was in those circles. They all worked basically with specific variations of Key of Solomon (non-Mathers ed.), Abramelin (non-Mathers ed.) and other such books and grimoires, which they somewhat altered for their own work. Delving in those books without good initial practice might result in provocation of mind to start its games. It is also one of the reasons why Bardon avoided any kind of indoctrination in his books.

I note you did give a reference for chakra cleaning in post 84 my mistake.

So here we are again as so many bunko artists in the past have done, I'm not saying you are definitely such but you exhibit the standard behaviours........There are bits missing, I can't tell you these secrets. Occult secrets revealed by Crowley and Regardie were why they were vilified and attacked by the Golden Dawn. Regardie wrote he called have wallpapered his whole house with the curses mailed to him by GD members. True Crowley was it would seem also a bit of a Libertine and this was not polite behaviour in those days.

So when Bardon writes repeatedly in his works that they are full description of those occult skills and developments he was lying right? I men he was in all these occult groups so he would know right? Also I and my colleagues are deluding ourselves but you can't reveal the truth and secrets you hold right? Same old con artist tune.

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 11:01 AM
So when Bardon writes repeatedly in his works that they are full description of those occult skills and developments he was lying right? I men he was in all these occult groups so he would know right? Also I and my colleagues are deluding ourselves but you can't reveal the truth and secrets you hold right? Same old con artist tune.
Noone will tell you the real truth, and not in the books or Internet, such is the nature of man. Surely his practices are good, but without doing additional things on the side, results will be quite weak if any. Also need to keep in mind, that Bardon himself wasn't definition of perfect and all-knowledgable occultist, he also had his weaknesses. I am not sure what will the practice by those circles give you, if you can refer to all the same books I listed?

Every mage/witch/occultist/alchemist should possess, among the other abilities, ability to keep silence. Ability to keep secrets. I know lots of secrets of various cults, lodges, solitary practitioners and such exactly because I can keep secrets.

Now all the books/authors that I listed will be enough for anyone to know what to do and where to look.

You might call me con artist, but you can always visit me and see me for what I am. I am simply a man devoted wholly to truth, love and knowledge.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 11:58 AM
It's not that I might call you a con-artist I feel there may be little choice here. Secrecy is not relevant when something is already openly published, secrecy would be to say nothing about something that is actually a secret. You keep secrets by not mentioning them rather than identifying that you have a secret but cannot say, that is the act of a confidence trickster or narcissist I'm not sure which you are, often a person is both which is why the bunko artist can never give up it is too much a part of them. Bardon wrote his work was complete so now you have no choice but to start denigrating him, this is part of the compulsion of the con-artist which is why I strongly suspect you are such. Confidence tricksters seek to inflict misery on their rubes because they are in a state of suffering themselves, this is part of the behaviour. Perhaps one day we may meet then I will know for sure.

Bearing in mind the number of times over literally decades since Bardon's material has been published:

1. Numerous groups and organisations have adapted his methodologies but asserted they are original arcane secrets specific to that tradition not initially found elsewhere.

2. Various fee charging organisations have offered Bardon training with the assertion it will lead into other things Bardon did not cover and these organisations have been discredited with much financial loss and psychological upset of students who enrolled.

3. Bardon specifically states repeatedly that his works are for a solo person who has to work for a living in the absence of a genuine mystery school.

How can I avoid the reasonable assumption that any who assert secrets but cannot reveal are just part of the latest tranche of bunko artists seeking to gain money and feed narcissism off the back of the unparalleled occult instruction provided by the late Franz Bardon?

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 12:42 PM
Bardon wrote his work was complete so now you have no choice but to start denigrating him, this is part of the compulsion of the con-artist which is why I strongly suspect you are such.
In no way I am denigrating him. And I can show you a very cool examples of why his works aren't exactly that complete almost by his own works:
1. In his 2nd book (on evocations) he started openly stating that, sorry, but such and such info won't be given. He did that openly for Air Spirits and for Saturnian Spirits.
2. It is not really a secret that some of Spirits in his book have coded names. He wrote nothing about the code (which if you apply, you will get much more familiar Star names).
3. In his 2nd book he only gives a very general pointings on preparation of tools.

His 1st book could be greatly assisted by various additional methods, which, I'm afraid, could be used for practicing very malicious kinds of Magic. Without all those methods, practitioner has to rely purely on his own imagination, and it never ends well.

And to clarify, noone will ever put down a full and precise instructions. Some things will always be omitted. Now, I want to see a man, who worked solely with Bardon's books, and achieved full success with his first 2 books.

There is also one thing Bardon doesn't mention, though he seems to be very familiar with Abramelin books, - necessity of hermitship, at least temporary. If one has to work for the living, and especially in the absence of good teacher nearby, chances are extremely low that he will have success in his practices. I am not saying it is impossible, but chances are almost none.

Especially good example: if you will start seriously doing Yoga practices, you will notice that any interaction with human society heavily deafens your senses. You might get a cool experience after some practices, and then you yourself will realize that you are back at stage 1 because your results are outdone by your deep involvement with mundane things.

Stories that you can achieve a lot by imagining things for 10-15 minutes a day are fake. Hard labor stands behind real results. Good teacher can help you to save at least 40-50 years of your life, but they are very rare, and understand me right, no way I am putting myself in position of some teacher, but I myself passed through too many pits where I could use a shortcut.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 01:13 PM
A classic con-artist ploy is to try and turn he tables on the critic........prove it!!!!! In the occult and magic empirical proof is most difficult which is why it provides fertile ground for the bunko artist. I have already pointed out that I and several others have surpassed the early steps you maliciously identify have blinds Warmheart. It is true that an initiated individual can facilitate progress but I'm pretty certain you are not one nor have any contact with such. Often people have to learn the hard way so if others are drawn in by you then that is a learning experience for them and they should not condem themselves as long as it doesn't become a habit.

Warmheart
08-18-2017, 01:40 PM
A classic con-artist ploy is to try and turn he tables on the critic........prove it!!!!! In the occult and magic empirical proof is most difficult which is why it provides fertile ground for the bunko artist. I have already pointed out that I and several others have surpassed the early steps makiciously identify have blinds Warmheart. It is true that an initiated individual can facilitate progress but I'm pretty certain you are not one nor have any contact with such. Often people have to learn the hard way so if others are drawn in by you then that is a learning experience for them and they should not condem themselves as long as it doesn't become a habit.
I don't position myself as a knowledgeable man. I know a little, almost nothing, and I am always open to learning new things. I am also not the man to pray to a single book or to a single authority and ignore everything else, even common sense. I am not sure why I got such your reaction, I merely described various points and tried to clarify some obscurity.

I could point you at the things where you are mistaken, as a proof, but it could upset you, so I decide not to give any further proofs. That probably makes me different from people who try to push their own vision of world, occult and such. I am not pushing anything and I don't feel like trying to prove anything. Especially if to consider that I payed a very dear price for what little knowledge I have, I feel it is better if people will learn from their own mistakes until their pride will dissipate.

Yet again, I am not hiding from direct contact, you can always visit me and see me in person.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 02:18 PM
You have provided no 'proofs' of anything and have also clearly showed narrow bias by identifying much of western occultism as deluded, and bad compared to what you say you have but cannot divulge (of course). You do not present any of the characteristics I would expect from a genuine adept or even practitioner of western occultism and the few genuine eastern adepts I have encountered would not have even entered into this exchange in the first place.

I leave it to Divine Providence as to whether or not we eventually meet.

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 02:25 PM
A cautionary video as well as perhaps useful instruction for those wishing to use the occult as a confidence trick scheme.
https://youtu.be/EBK5aKOr2Fw

Axismundi000
08-18-2017, 06:09 PM
Here is the supposed secret code cypher assuming anyone here on this forum (apart from me) is doing Bardon type Evocation. The genii of the zone girdling the earth do not require it they are pretty much the same as Abramelin and directly relate to stellar constellations. It is a simple matter of course to try both given and cypher name to check which is correct with the entity concerned.

Bardon Evocation Cypher in English:

A to E. B to R. Ch to H. D to M. E to A. F to V. G to W. I to O. K to Z. L to S. Lh to Sch. M to L. N to G. O to U. P to F. R to T. S to N. T to B. Tz to K. U to I. V to D. W to P. Y to J. Zh to Ch. Z to C.

As I mention this cypher is not relevant to the genii of the zone girdling the earth, the sphere magician may verify this by evocation for themselves.

elixirmixer
08-18-2017, 10:47 PM
What is a cypher?

Axis, on a scale of one to ten, one being my skill level 10 being the skills of aliester Crowley, how far do you view yourself as having progressed?

I'm soooo loving the bardon book. The magic mirror seems like an extremely versatile tool. I might even be able to speak to my dead mother!! Would trying to chat with the dead at a beginner level be dangerous?

I love these chats. I wouldn't have the first idea where to talk to someone practising magic in Australia so it's really good I have this resource.

Schmuldvich
08-18-2017, 11:00 PM
What is a cypher?
This is a cypher (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6ufFg0GzbU).

A cipher is best described in "Secret Teachings Of All Ages". It is a tool used to obfuscate meaning. Here is the chapter: http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta42.htm

Many, many, many times I have revealed the "acroamatic cipher" is what the Sages used (and still use today!) in their writings and words. Chasm originally pointed this out before he was banned.








"Secret Teachings Of All Ages" by Manly Hall, 1928

3. The acroamatic cipher. The religious and philosophical writings of all nations abound with acroamatic cryptograms, that is, parables and allegories. The acroamatic is unique in that the document containing it may be translated or reprinted without affecting the cryptogram. Parables and allegories have been used since remote antiquity to present moral truths in an attractive and understandable manner. The acroamatic cryptogram is a pictorial cipher drawn in words and its symbolism must be so interpreted. The Old and New Testaments of the Jews, the writings of Plato and Aristotle, Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, Virgil's Æneid, The Metamorphosis of Apuleius, and Æsop's Fables are outstanding examples of acroamatic cryptography in which are concealed the deepest and most sublime truths of ancient mystical philosophy.

The acroamatic cipher is the most subtle of all, for the parable or allegory is susceptible of several interpretations. Bible students for centuries have been confronted by this difficultly. They are satisfied with the moral interpretation of the parable and forget that each parable and allegory is capable of seven interpretations, of which the seventh--the highest--is complete and all-inclusive, whereas the other six (and lesser) interpretations are fragmentary, revealing but part of the mystery. The creation myths of the world are acroamatic cryptograms, and the deities of the various pantheons are only cryptic characters which, if properly understood, become the constituents of a divine alphabet. The initiated few comprehend the true nature of this alphabet, but the uninitiated many worship the letters of it as gods.

Axismundi000
08-19-2017, 12:51 AM
What is a cypher?

Axis, on a scale of one to ten, one being my skill level 10 being the skills of aliester Crowley, how far do you view yourself as having progressed?

I'm soooo loving the bardon book. The magic mirror seems like an extremely versatile tool. I might even be able to speak to my dead mother!! Would trying to chat with the dead at a beginner level be dangerous?

I love these chats. I wouldn't have the first idea where to talk to someone practising magic in Australia so it's really good I have this resource.

The cypher above is a replacement cypher for some of the entities given in Bardon's 2nd book Practice of Magical Evocation. It does not apply to the elementals or the genii of the zone girdling the earth.

I don't like to tell people what they should or shouldn't do, working with dead folks (necromancy) is not something I have done much of. There is a bit of that in one of the Enochian Aethyrs but the dead in that Aethyr were not very self aware so no real interaction was feasible. I think stuff like voudoun or hoodoo maybe does more necromancy but I lack knowledge or skill sets in that area to say much about it Elixirmixer. Perhaps you will end up researching that and telling me about that, it is for you to decide how to focus and manage your Hermetic journey and what time and resources you have and to what these should be devoted. It is for you to fly at just the right height or like Icarus go to close to the Sun and crash and burn, you are your own person with your own path.

I cannot compare myself overall to Crowley, I think my Evocation might be slightly better than Crowley but some of his yoga practices far exceed what I can do.

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 01:10 AM
Thank you Axis, this is a very reasonable response, I agree. So obviously different styles of magic exist, with different purposes, and their own set of pro's and con's.

My main purpose for this training is to get in there and perform this type of 'shamanic' work on myself. What I mean by that is I want to head into the astral plane and harrypotter the absolute shit out of any entity that is feeding off of myself and my family. Is there a particular aspect of magic that is focused on being a bad ass demon slayer in the astral realms?

Not that I would actually kill these things if I can avoid it, but just, encourage their leaving.

Does this concept exist or am I living in fairyland?

Kibric
08-20-2017, 02:01 AM
found this which has some stuff about the Jinn State

The Yellow Book, a book by Samael Aun Weor
https://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor/the-yellow-book/1136-jinn-state.html

I also remember a story about alessandro cagliostro having a dinner party
and to fill in the empty seats he brought famous people back from the dead/past
like Alexander the Great , using The Jinn State
In the story Cagliostro admits they aren't really spirits just his Manifestations in The Jinn State
I've been trying to track down this story for ages

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 02:32 AM
hmmm this is a very interesting link you've provided Kibric, cheers.

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 05:59 AM
Wow Kibric, this is some deep shit!

I love the idea of this technique (because it makes a great practical use of my ability to move into the dream world without losing consciousness):


From The devotee must lie down on his left side, resting his head on the palm of his left hand.
The devotee must fall asleep in this position. He must be on guard and aware of his dreams; he must become vigilant of his own dreams. When he begins to see the images of his dreams, he must arise very quietly from the bed holding on to the dream as if it were a precious treasure.
Before the devotee leaves his house, he must make a small jump with the intention of floating within the surrounding atmosphere.
If the devotee, after executing the small jump, floats within the atmosphere, then his physical body has entered into the Jinn State. If he does not float, then it is because he is not in the Jinn State.
When the devotee is in the Jinn State, he can leave his house with courage and confidence; in an instant, the devotee can travel to the most remote places on earth. If the devotee does not enter into Jinn State on the first try, then he must not dismay. Go to bed and repeat the exercise nightly, as many times as necessary, until success is achieved.
There are some devotees who will succeed immediately; these are the fortunate ones who have practiced Jinn Science in ancient reincarnations. Others may have never practiced the science. They must begin practicing pranayama and exercise this practice for many years, until they obtain this power. In reality, this key is just a modification of somnambulism (or sleep walking), it is voluntary yet induced somnambulism.
During dreams, tremendous subconscious energies are functioning. The devotee must take advantage of these energies and control them, like a lever, in order to place the physical body into hyperspace. - https://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor/the-yellow-book/1136-jinn-state.html

And it also really really makes me think hard about what Jesus says here in the gnostic scriptures:


When you make the two one, you will become sons of man, and when you say: Mountain, move away, it will move away

Kibric
08-20-2017, 06:52 AM
I'm still digesting it myself

Gonna try one of the Keys ?
Float around ya House ?

I know Cagliostro has some stuff on the Jinn State
and i'm trying to track it down

I'm Very unexperienced Astral traveling
I hear Edgar Cayce is a good place to start

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/edgar_cayce_master_of_astral_projection-t45645.0.html

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 07:08 AM
I will be practising this every single night for the rest of my life I think.

Yes, I want floating. Then I could float over the ocean and go and check if there is a giant hole where the south pole is suppose to be. Check the Hollow Earth theory

Axismundi000
08-20-2017, 11:06 AM
Thank you Axis, this is a very reasonable response, I agree. So obviously different styles of magic exist, with different purposes, and their own set of pro's and con's.

My main purpose for this training is to get in there and perform this type of 'shamanic' work on myself. What I mean by that is I want to head into the astral plane and harrypotter the absolute shit out of any entity that is feeding off of myself and my family. Is there a particular aspect of magic that is focused on being a bad ass demon slayer in the astral realms?

Not that I would actually kill these things if I can avoid it, but just, encourage their leaving.

Does this concept exist or am I living in fairyland?

If your main concern is problematic astral entities just eat plenty of garlic semi raw in your family meals. Low level astral entities which is all you will encounter at the beginning are easily dealt with by clean healthy living and regular garlic in the diet.

Warmheart
08-20-2017, 11:17 AM
I must make a very important note. Garlic (and similar things) is very disruptive for normal energy flow in human's body. While it might be somewhat beneficial (from the point of view of some doctors) in very short term, it will also accelerate aging processes due to the specifics of how it works.

Argue with it or not, but I needed to point it out as it is HIGHLY important in all such works.

Axismundi000
08-20-2017, 02:12 PM
So not only do you have the secret keys to 'real' magic but you are also an arcane herbalist who now informs us that garlic shortens life. KEK

Tell that to the French who gave good health as well as enjoy excellent food and wine.

Warmheart
08-20-2017, 02:20 PM
So not only do you have the secret keys to 'real' magic but you are also an arcane herbalist who now informs us that garlic shortens life. KEK

Tell that to the French who gave good health as well as enjoy excellent food and wine.
I knew you would argue :)

Experiment is easy here. Try doing any meditation, attempt to enter lucid ream or something like that after eating garlic and after avoiding it.

Good health is a relative thing and depends on many factors. I think if people would put more attention into what they eat and drink, and stuff like that, average lifespan would increase to 100 (which I still look at as something too short, but people are used to thinking by stereotypes that 80-90 years is super long life).

Also I think that you might need some more love and you have a deficit of it in your life.... So, my fellow orc, Make Love, not Warcraft! :)

Axismundi000
08-20-2017, 02:27 PM
I didn't say garlic helped with meditation I said it helps against negative astral entities DERP. The French enjoy good life expectancy with high levels of garlic in their diet btw.

Warmheart
08-20-2017, 02:38 PM
I didn't say garlic helped with meditation I said it helps against negative astral entities DERP. The French enjoy good life expectancy with high levels of garlic in their diet btw.
I don't remember who wrote it, but he wrote words like: "Bad smell of garlic frightens evil spirits not because of some occult properties but just because it is a bad smell and so it is avoided by all spirits - good and bad alike."

What concerns life expectancy, it is a relative thing and it depends on many factors. I knew a man who in his 90s was a physical trainer in my school. Back then my jaws dropped when I learned how old he was. He didn't even had any white in his hairs and he could be mistaken for the man in his late 40s. I don't know how he is now as a lot of time have passed and I moved from that place a long time ago.

elixirmixer
08-20-2017, 09:56 PM
Garlic is the ONLY scientifically proven remedy for the common cold (at least it was 3 years ago when i was at uni)

i think that some people are much more sensitive to it than others.
mo

trauma in my life and my families lives created 'greater' astral entities to effect us. my wife and i are much more bitter to one another than we used to be, even though we are probably more in love than ever.

i could go into more detain but im restricted to the on-screen keyboard atm.

Warmheart
08-20-2017, 11:18 PM
Garlic is the ONLY scientifically proven remedy for the common cold (at least it was 3 years ago when i was at uni)
Thing with garlic, it acts like cutting away the finger if it hurts. Surely pain stops, but you lose the finger. That's how it acts towards your physical, astral and mental bodies as a whole.

trauma in my life and my families lives created 'greater' astral entities to effect us. my wife and i are much more bitter to one another than we used to be, even though we are probably more in love than ever.

i could go into more detain but im restricted to the on-screen keyboard atm.
Use this opportunity to know these entities, approach it as explorer, without fear. If you approach them without fear and they are just larvas, they will dissipate. If they are some higher rank entities then you might get to learn a lot of new things.

But that is if it really is so. And sometimes bitterness is caused by other things. Reasons might be entirely different - starting from actions of some local witch, and ending with some trivial psychology things. Hard to say more precise without knowing more details. However, I can say, fearlessness and love are capable of defeating almost any enemy - be he physical or astral :)

Axismundi000
09-13-2017, 12:14 PM
Thing with garlic, it acts like cutting away the finger if it hurts. Surely pain stops, but you lose the finger. That's how it acts towards your physical, astral and mental bodies as a whole.

Use this opportunity to know these entities, approach it as explorer, without fear. If you approach them without fear and they are just larvas, they will dissipate. If they are some higher rank entities then you might get to learn a lot of new things.

But that is if it really is so. And sometimes bitterness is caused by other things. Reasons might be entirely different - starting from actions of some local witch, and ending with some trivial psychology things. Hard to say more precise without knowing more details. However, I can say, fearlessness and love are capable of defeating almost any enemy - be he physical or astral :)

I have deliberately left this guff for a while because in my opinion it is such vague nonsense that I should avoid a knee jerk reaction. Also I think indicates a lack of practical experience with astral phantasms or larvae as is termed here. Larvae and phantasms (usually occurring via failed Evocation) have a lot of energy and have the ability to feed and sustain themselves. Bardon goes into some detail in his stuff about artificial elementals about this. Going over to them and they will just dissipate is simply not true because they have developed sufficient self awareness that they can feed. The beginner must remove themselves and family as a food source and one quick and easy way is to ingest fresh garlic cooked al dente in family meals. The larvae, phantom, hobgoblin whatever you choise to call it is unable to feed and departs. In regard to consciousness transferred to non physical realms the way to avoid such problems is to employ Theurgy. That is call on Deity with Divine names, if pantheist call on specific Deity for aid/guidance or for judeochristian approach Archangels, Angels. This is all long established practice and it surprises me that instead the rubbish above is suggested. It implies to me a lack of actual experience with these things, the spurious view that it will just dissipate is a view more to do with basic meditative work rather than projection. When the beginner is dealing with stray thoughts for example in basic Theravada breathing meditation. Or the instructions in Bardon's step 1 magic mental training.

As for the nonsense that problems may be due to 'some witch' well......how absurdly medieval.

Warmheart
09-13-2017, 04:46 PM
Larvae and phantasms (usually occurring via failed Evocation) have a lot of energy and have the ability to feed and sustain themselves. Bardon goes into some detail in his stuff about artificial elementals about this. Going over to them and they will just dissipate is simply not true because they have developed sufficient self awareness that they can feed.
Most of larvas and phantasms cause fear when they expose themselves, once you surpass that fear, you are safe and they are gone. Fear is the main link which is used by those entities to connect to the human. Fear is like an open door to them, close that door, and most of those entities will be gone. Also if you did any Evocations, you noticed that in many cases (especially those which concern Goetia) you are overwhelmed by sense of unexplainable fear just in the time when entity starts showing itself. That fear starts leading to trance and opens connection to entity. Break that starting sense of fear and and you break the Evocation. Btw, this is something that Bardon, who was so much mentioned here, never wrote about.

However, you are right that some larvas can't be easily gotten rid of, specifically those which were made by some crafty man - but those larvas will act secretly, and garlic won't really help against that kind. Garlic might turn away various spirits (good spirits don't like garlic too, men don't like, animals don't like, etc.) for some time maybe... with strong enough intention. And it is very harmful to the body and energy flow.

This is all long established practice and it surprises me that instead the rubbish above is suggested.
People use various dubious practices. But sometimes simplicity is all we need. People sometimes invent complex solutions where a simple good courage would suffice.

As for the nonsense that problems may be due to 'some witch' well......how absurdly medieval.
It was merely assumption. But do you really think there is no cursing and hexing going on in these days?:) Also sometimes there is nothing at all actually happening but a game of human's mind and imagining of things.

Kiorionis
09-14-2017, 12:49 AM
Curses and hexes are mostly used by the immature. I'd say ages 15 - 21. After that people start to realise what they're actually doing.

Basically, if you've been cursed, it's by an amatuer who probably doesn't know what they're doing and it can be easily purged or cleansed.

But there are the rare cases where you've fucked up and a professional is working on ypu, whoch is karma coming back full swing hahahaha