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True Initiate
05-06-2012, 02:12 PM
What do you guys think of the medicinal power of gum resins like Frankincense, Myrhhe, Aloe, Labdanum? Are they usefull only for burning or is more to it?

I am on the quest to find out!

The first experiment that i want to try is Elixir Proprietatis prepared from Myrrhe, Aloe and Safran

https://www.scribd.com/doc/246965042/Elixir-Proprietatis-pdf (https://www.scribd.com/doc/246965042/Elixir-Proprietatis-pdf)

This is my starting material:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UfPKQ2sPtWo

The trouble with most old texts is how to identify ingredients and solvents properly. In this recipe we have an ingredient called Aloe which comes from Aloe Vera plant

http://img220.imagevenue.com/loc641/th_311506555_aloe_vera_tree_122_641lo.jpg (http://img220.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=th_311506555_aloe_vera_tree_122_641l o.jpg)

but the trouble what is it exactly?

Aloe gel?

http://img193.imagevenue.com/loc32/th_631172127_Aloe_gel2_122_32lo.jpg (http://img193.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=631172127_Aloe_gel2_122_32lo.jpg)


Aloe resin (Gum Aloe)?

http://img276.imagevenue.com/loc574/th_311787948_LuHui1_122_574lo.jpg (http://img276.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=311787948_LuHui1_122_574lo.jpg)

I think that the Author of the recipe had Aloe resin (Gum Aloe) in his mind made of bitter Aloe resin called Aloin.

The next is Myrrhe which is a gum resin and today widely available in esoteric shops.
http://img293.imagevenue.com/loc426/th_312498154_myrrhe01_122_426lo.JPG (http://img293.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=312498154_myrrhe01_122_426lo.JPG)


The most expensive is Safran which is also hard to get because of it's value and many fakes.
http://img25.imagevenue.com/loc399/th_312721346_safran1_122_399lo.jpg (http://img25.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=th_312721346_safran1_122_399lo.jpg)

I recommend buying whole Safran filaments instead of Safran powder because filaments can keep the Aroma for much longer period of time but caution deadly dosis of Safran is between 10-12 gramm.

The last is mysterious solvent Volatized Salt of Tartar which of course cann't be volatized by using only Alcohol but Baron Urbigerus was more charitable in revealing how to prepare it.

Please post in this thread all the recipes that are dealing with resins or the names of the books where such recipes can be found. This is not about Phi. Stone or transmutations but all about medicine and our well being.

Andro
05-06-2012, 02:48 PM
The last is mysterious solvent Volatized Salt of Tartar which of course cann't be volatized by using only Alcohol but Baron Urbigerus was more charitable in revealing how to prepare it.

Steve Kalec has a Salt Volatilization method on the Alchemy Website, but you are probably already aware of it.

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/steve_kalec.html

It's important (IMO) to get a very pure fixed salt from the source matter first, I found it to be quite different from store-bought Potash.

On the resins, I would normally use a Di-Ethyl Ether extraction to get the pure Sulfur(s).

True Initiate
05-06-2012, 02:58 PM
Steve Kalec has a Salt Volatilization method on the Alchemy Website, but you are probably already aware of it.

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/steve_kalec.html

It's important (IMO) to get a very pure fixed salt from the source matter first, I found it to be quite different from store-bought Potash.


I am aware of it and Petrinus have also wrote about this:
http://tpissarro.com/alquimia/firstbeing-e.htm

Oh yes, i got weird results by using store bought Potash. For example i dissolved it in water and got yellow solution!

Di-Ethyl Ether is a great choice for a solvent but it is also quite dangerous to work with. What's your method of separating Di-Ethyl Ether from plants Sulphur's?

Andro
05-06-2012, 03:29 PM
OK.

First we need of course to make a very pure white (fixed) potash from the starting material. It's an art in itself...

About the Di-Ethyl Ether extraction:

I have only used it on regular plant material (some plants have a lot of fixed resinous sulfur) and on Urine and Wine material.

The Di-Ethyl Ether extraction beats the hell out of distillation.

For plant material (with lots of fixed sulfur) I have used 1 Liter of Ether for every 50 grams of plant material. That's a lot, but it gets out all the sulfur.

I can't speculate the quantities needed for Saffron, etc... You'll have to test...

I have soaked the dry plant matter in Di-Ethyl Ether for NO MORE than 5 minutes. If kept more, the solvent may pick up unwanted stuff.

The time may vary with other types of matters, for a more 'solid' material it could take more.

Then everything gets filtered trough a filtering cloth into an evaporating dish, the matter is left behind and you keep what is in solution with the Ether (which by now has changed color because of the Sulfur).

Di-Ethyl Ether BOILS at 34 degrees C (in the palm of your hand), so the electric stove for the evaporation dish shouldn't be set higher than let's say 50 C (for speeding things up a bit).

Keep the evaporation area well ventilated, preferably with a fan blowing the Ether vapors away into the open. Alternatively, the Ether can be recovered by distillation (same temperature range).

Make ABSOLUTELY sure there is no danger of any kind of ignition - no flames, no matches, no exposed heating elements, etc...

The odor is very strong and may raise suspicion if you live in an urban area (neighbors, etc...)

It's best not to spend too much time in the evaporation space, just check on it every once in a while.

IMPORTANT:

Before the Ether is completely gone (while there is still some left in the dish/flask), MOVE the solution to a small, flat and all-accessible dish, like a petri dish.

This is because the resinous Sulfur may likely harden a lot, and this would make it impossible to take out from a regular boiling flask.

So evaporate the remaining Solvent from the perti dish, and you will be left with the fixed sulfur of the material, which may get very hard when cooled.

I have never worked with the matters you want to try, but it is possible they need to be prepared/powdered or otherwise treated to enable or enhance the Ether extraction.

All this is from personal experience.

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

True Initiate
05-06-2012, 03:44 PM
Great!

Thanks for the help Androgynus. I am planning 3 variations on this Path, the first using Ethanol as a solvent, the second with Diethy Ether and the third with Volatized Tartar done in my way.

All the ingredients need to be finely powdered before use and it's a good idea not to solve them at the same time. Safran let's go of his Suphur much quicker than Myrrhe and so on...

Right now i have started to powder 15g of Myrrhe!

Andro
05-06-2012, 03:50 PM
Great! I wish you best of luck!

I've done this with a few plant materials (as I think you know) and with the right plant(s) we can achieve healing virtues that are quite marvelous!

I'll be glad to be of assistance with any technicalities that may arise with the Ether path.

BTW, I've found Ethanol to be way inferior to Di-Ethyl Ether in this type of extractions, but I'm sure you have your reasons to try it as well...

True Initiate
05-06-2012, 04:31 PM
I'll be glad to be of assistance with any technicalities that may arise with the Ether path.

Thanks for the offer i will need it!



BTW, I've found Ethanol to be way inferior to Di-Ethyl Ether in this type of extractions, but I'm sure you have your reasons to try it as well...

For sure Ethanol is inferior to Di-Ethyl Ether but i want to create 3 different type of medicine by using 3 different solvents. I want to see if the there is also a difference in medical effects so to be able to persuade my Herbalists friends to use better solvents and not only Ethanol.

Andro
05-06-2012, 04:59 PM
My intuition is that if you dissolve what can be dissolved from the Volatilized Salts into Di-Ethyl Ether (or SV) - you may have a superior solvent/extractor, maybe not far from the Alkahest of the Plant Kingdom...

But this one I haven't tested, so it's only intuition.

solomon levi
05-06-2012, 05:29 PM
I haven't really been focussing on lab alchemy, but before when I was,
a couple months ago, I was finding evidence that was pointing to the use
of tree resins in alchemy. I probable can't recall all of it now, but it started
as I had always wondered why the wise men/philosophers brought Yeshua
frankincense, gold and myrrh.
There's lots of other uses of resins in the bible along with the anointng oil.
Maybe there is something to adding this to limestone and producing a volatile
alkali/circulatum.
As you know, Starkey used turpentine to volatilise his tartar. Urbigerus suggests
something similar. The terpenes in this are in resins.
I also came across amber, whose greek name is elektrum, and we know some
alchemists used this word for various things, Paracelsus for a mixture of the 7
metals, some others as a mixture of gold and silver.
The acacia tree is popular biblically and in masonic lore. It yields gum arabic but
I'm not sure of any terpene content.
I don't remember clearly, but I may have made a connection between these resins
and the possibility of cyanide production. If i did, it was probably just by following
wikipedia links - maybe you can find the trail.
Or maybe that was studying humus, which also has terprenoids, fulvic acid, etc.

It's too bad I didn't write about this when I was hot on the trail. I thought of it several
times and didn't get around to it. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

But if you make your volatile tartar/circulatum, with the Paracelsus Elixir Proprietatis
it is supposed to be the best/true preparation of this incredible medicine, as good as
any metallic medicine.

A good volatile tartar would be best, but for a short-cut people may try preparing
Sharkey's soap and using that in solution as an ens extraction. I just did the regular
tartar ens extraction for my elixir proprietatis.

Good point about the aloe gum. I hadn't considered that. Well, I figured everything
was in the juice. I'm curious if this will make a difference. Isn't the gum just dried juice?
If so, whatever is in the gum is in the juice.

solomon levi
05-06-2012, 05:39 PM
Another short cut is to make your Sharkey's soap and then do several
distillations on it with alcohol to get to the circulatum.

True Initiate
05-06-2012, 06:18 PM
I haven't really been focussing on lab alchemy, but before when I was,
a couple months ago, I was finding evidence that was pointing to the use
of tree resins in alchemy. I probable can't recall all of it now, but it started
as I had always wondered why the wise men/philosophers brought Yeshua
frankincense, gold and myrrh.
There's lots of other uses of resins in the bible along with the anointng oil.

Oh, yes Bible is full of it.
Didn't you knew that Ancient Egypitians prepared balls made of mixture of resins cooked in honey or wine called Kyphi. It was used as incense in Temples and the Egyptian Universal medicine was prepared by extracting the essence of Kyphi. Several recipes have survived until this day but the best work On the Making of Kyphi of Egypitian priest Manetho was lost!
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/kyphi.html

As you can imagine i am very interested in this type of medicine!



But if you make your volatile tartar/circulatum, with the Paracelsus Elixir Proprietatis
it is supposed to be the best/true preparation of this incredible medicine, as good as
any metallic medicine.

Yes, i am of the same opinion! The resins are the blood of the plant produced by cutting the bark of the tree and which are meant to heal the plant like the human blood heals wounds by thickening and regenerating the skin. I got a little cooled off by mineral/metallic kingdom because it's a trouble to prepare it for human consumption and also very risky!
It's a sad fact that on Practical section of this forum there wasn't any practical post for months and one of the reasons are the materials used Realgar, Orpiment, Antimony,!

I have few Herbalists (Wicca followers) who are doing the work, extracting essetial oil for Aroma therapy and healing people with their tinctures although i know that such medicines are not as good as Alchemical ones it appears to me that nobody from Alchemical branch is not healing anyone! Is this sound right to you?
To be honest i was little ashamed when they asked me how many people did i healed with my alchemical medicines?



Good point about the aloe gum. I hadn't considered that. Well, I figured everything
was in the juice. I'm curious if this will make a difference. Isn't the gum just dried juice?
If so, whatever is in the gum is in the juice.

Yes, the gum is prepared by thickening the green juice (Aloin) over fire for about 4 hours. Let nobody here confuse Aloin wit the Aloe gel, these are two different substances!
I was unable to make enough for my needs so i ordered the Aloe gum online, it should arrive this week. Aloin was and is still used today as a strong purgative for this reason i am little uneasy to use it in qual quantity because i am certainly not looking for that effect. I am also thinking by replacing Aloe gum with Frankincense, you know Frankincense, Myrrhe and Safran (Gold of the Vegetable Kingdom) sounds like a powerfull mixture to me!

horticult
05-06-2012, 09:11 PM
Di-Ethyl Ether is quite safe & cheap.
Maceration can last days & weex.
Then just unscrew that well screwed!! ;-) bottle, outside & wait a while, until there is that typical odour no more. Its quick as SM.
Its also great 4 inhalation or even drinking...
But I would not heat it.

Andro
05-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Di-Ethyl Ether is quite safe & cheap.

Not safe near a spark source. Also not very cheap where I live (unless you're well-to-do financially to get the large quantities that are sometimes needed). Around 20 Euros per Liter where I get it.


Maceration can last days & weex.

Not for every material. For some matters, 5 minutes are more than enough.


Its quick as SM.

Have you compared a vial of Di-Ethyl Ether and a vial of SM to establish this?


Its also great 4 inhalation or even drinking...

We all have our pleasures.


But I would not heat it.

I've heated and distilled it safely.

horticult
05-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Androgynus, your urgent need for detailed comments on everything is really an obsession & yours stupid projections are famous.

abdo
05-06-2012, 10:38 PM
My intuition is that if you dissolve what can be dissolved from the Volatilized Salts into Di-Ethyl Ether (or SV) - you may have a superior solvent/extractor, maybe not far from the Alkahest of the Plant Kingdom...

But this one I haven't tested, so it's only intuition.

In Page 3 of the link mentioned by True Puffer
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53140991/Van-Helmont-Elixir-proprietatis

Myrrh, Alloe s, Saffron, of each four Ounces, powder them, and pour on them so much Al calizate Spirit of Wine, as will reduce them into the form of paste, then pour in so much Oyl of Sulphur made by a Bell trill as will colour them black, then pour on Spirit of Wine tartarised as will cover them 4 Fingers over, put them in a glass in digestion for two days, separate the tincture, and pour on pure Spirit of Wine, circulate it two months, separate the tincture and distill the fecis by a gentle heat.
What comes over, add to the tinctures, and it will be far better than the vulgar way distilled; for the virtues
Dose this ring the bell?

Awani
05-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Androgynus, your urgent need for detailed comments on everything is really an obsession & yours stupid projections are famous.

We don't call each other stupid on Alchemy Forums! Especially not when the person you are calling stupid is taking his time give some of his own tips to your post.

:cool:

Andro
05-06-2012, 11:29 PM
Hi Abdo, I was just reading the text now for the first time. Makes sense.

My intuition was to mix the SV/Ether with the Volatilized Salt, so the solvent is entirely volatile and can be recovered after extraction.

This specific bit you quoted doesn't specify if the SV is tartarized with the regular fixed salt or with the volatilized one.

abdo
05-07-2012, 12:32 AM
This specific bit you quoted doesn't specify if the SV is tartarized with the regular fixed salt or with the volatilized one.
I believe it is fixed salt; the combination of sulfuric acid and SV produce impure Di-Ethyl Ether if it is distilled!
For oil of sulfur using bell see Solomon Levi experiment at http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?329-the-oil-from-sulphur-vive

solomon levi
05-07-2012, 03:04 AM
I believe it is fixed salt; the combination of sulfuric acid and SV produce impure Di-Ethyl Ether if it is distilled!
For oil of sulfur using bell see Solomon Levi experiment at http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?329-the-oil-from-sulphur-vive

Just remember my method isn't the concentrated form I'm sure they're using here.
The way I collect it off the sides of the glass with water makes it equivalent to how one
would ingest it - a couple drops of concentrated acid in a glass of water. Since I was
only interested in ingesting it, this worked fine for me. I'm sure you could evaporate off
the water, but there wouldn't be much acid - one would have to do it many times or find
a really large bell. ;)
Otherwise it's really simple easy work.

thoth
05-07-2012, 05:12 PM
You might be interested in Manfred Junius "Plant Alchemy" and the chapter where he talks about Urbigerus circulatum.*

He interprets Urbigerus description of the Copavian as referring to resin, or balsam, and Junius recommends Canadian balsam as just as good.
*I got some of this recently, From a chemical supply, i guess the natural variety is better than the artificial variety. I am a little lost about the process but was following the one here*http://alchymie.ca/circulatum.htm

I have a Christmass type fir tree in my garden and was trying to acquire the wood oil as described above. I steam distilled pine needles and have a tar substance. I guess I need to process that further before mixing with the balsam.*

Fulcanelli also talks about the myrobalan

True Initiate
05-07-2012, 10:39 PM
Nice documentary about Saffron. Must see!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia3PUtzZYNk

Andro
05-08-2012, 08:58 AM
Fascinating...

There appear to be a few 'Super Plants' that can induce amazing healing.

The title of this thread is: Power of Frankincense, Myrhhe and other resins

The following would fall under the category of 'Other Resins'...

Paracelsus thought of Melissa as being one of those plants as well. I've managed to obtain a slightly resinous extract from Melissa by combining parts of the Ens process with Ether extraction.

Also, Cannabis seems to be in the same league as far as healing is concerned.

The following was found on the Internet and I have not verified it, I'm just presenting it as food for thought:


On October 7, 2003 The United States Government as represented by the Department of Health and Human Services was granted a U.S. Patent (#6630507) on any and all uses and applications of Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1383240/Boy-brain-cancer-cured-secretly-fed-medical-marijuana-father.html#ixzz1uGY881rg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmviQBB5DHs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI

The last video (above) contains a method that I have adapted for various plant extraction works, with Di-Ethyl Ether.

I also corresponded briefly with Rick Simpson and got some tips from him about working with Di-Ethyl Ether on plants, from which I have adapted the method previously detailed on this thread.

Rick Simpson's Method (with Naphtha) is also detailed in the above movie ('Run From The Cure'), starting from minute 29:32 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0psJhQHk_GI#t=1771s).

He recommends using Naphtha, but agreed that Di-Ethyl Ether is a superior solvent, and that he didn't recommend it a as a first choice, because of the relative high price tag and the relatively high quantities needed.

pneumatician
05-10-2012, 03:21 AM
Please post in this thread all the recipes that are dealing with resins or the names of the books where such recipes can be found. This is not about Phi. Stone or transmutations but all about medicine and our well being.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMBERGRIS-WHITE-SOLID-954-GRAMS-/170721429675?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bfca48ab

books? exist some very interisting books, but if you want to go beyond you need to read texts from Shumerian people. en brief every plant have a 'spirit" or ens, and like humans can be a idiot ens, evil ens or a friendly and simbiotic ens, flematic, coleric.... "Useless", "mistic" or "hyppie" ens also exist, like ayuarasca... :)

I like many native americans have a good sense of orientation but this have a problem... you can't use maps and human trails!!! :) I pass through vegetation and sometimes the vegetation is too much :). someday I get trapped between 3 young pines. instantly i felt the pressure by clasp each other tightly and the presence of the pine ens. Mentally I say: wha't are you doing ? and with corporeal lenguague: stop now! the pressure vanished and the ens, surprised be pulled back :) if the ens of pine was diavolical surely we've had a good problem. really I need to buy a set of ninja swords. :)

abdo
05-11-2012, 08:36 AM
A good volatile tartar would be best, but for a short-cut people may try preparing
Sharkey's soap and using that in solution as an ens extraction. I just did the regular
tartar ens extraction for my elixir proprietatis.

how did you use it in solution to extract ens?
Jabir bin Hayyan has prepared such soap as a dissolvent. He used alkali and Sesame oil and philosophers named it by "waxing oil"

solomon levi
05-12-2012, 03:32 PM
how did you use it in solution to extract ens?
Jabir bin Hayyan has prepared such soap as a dissolvent. He used alkali and Sesame oil and philosophers named it by "waxing oil"

Well, it may not be technically an alkali ens extraction, since the tartar and the acidic oil should balance
eachother out, but it still extracts, whatever we call it.
Sharkey's soap is made with tartar and turpentine, or an essential oil (more expensive), but I've made it, or
something similar with tartar, or other alkalis, and other acids. Like I've used fresh urine which is acidic
with tartar and also with calcium carbonate. I've mentioned it as "urine soap". It has a nice smell and is
hard like soap and I've extracted tincture from some metals with it. I recall ingesting the copper extract
and urine soap. It must still be alkali because it deliquesces - that is how I get it to solution.
Sorry, I haven't pH it.

Andro
05-21-2012, 05:46 PM
There is another related thread here, about the Paracelsus Elixir Of Propriety (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?454-Paracelsus-Elixir-of-Propriety) (click on the link to get there).

Andro
08-26-2012, 09:41 AM
This is not about Phi. Stone or transmutations but all about medicine and our well being.

Hi True Puffer,

I was wondering if there are any interesting developments with this project... And I also thought this thread deserves a nice bump as well :)


Please post in this thread all the recipes that are dealing with resins or the names of the books where such recipes can be found.

This is not directly related to resins, but a special way of volatilizing the Salt of Tartar without Oil:

From 'Elixir Proprietatis':


"It's a wonder how much this Salt of Tartar will perform [...] being made volatile with Spirit of Wine, and not Oyl"

From Van Helmont, 'Ortus Medicinae':


"Dissolve Salt of Tartar in warm wine vinegar and set it to digest in a warm place for 40 days.
Remove the vinegar and a clear crystalline salt will remain.
Dissolve this salt in distilled rainwater and filter several times.
Evaporate the water and a clear snow-white salt remains.
From this salt distill by water bath a spirit.
Once the spirit has been removed, let the salt sit for another month in a sand bath.
The salt will sublime and fix itself to the sides of the glass.
This is the Volatilized Salt of Tartar."


I am planning 3 variations on this Path, the first using Ethanol as a solvent, the second with Diethy Ether and the third with Volatized Tartar done in my way.

Is your way similar in any way to the method given by Van Helmont? Or is it more in tune with the indications of Urbigerus?

On a side note - I work as a shamanic healer (in person and also remotely), and I've had some amazing results, including cancerous tumors shrinking or disappearing completely.
BUT my shamanic healing sessions are not always enough to give the benefits I am wishing to provide for my clients.
That's one of the main reasons I have taken a renewed interest in plant/spagyrical work, besides my more 'purist' ongoing alchemical research.

(Just in case anyone wonders why the sudden interest in the Vegetable Kingdom :))

True Initiate
08-26-2012, 10:16 AM
My way of volatizing the Tartar was in fact the R+C method from their third degree instruction.

http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc91/th_970404159_1_122_91lo.jpg (http://img298.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=970404159_1_122_91lo.jpg)

This solvent prepared in this manner has a very bitting odour similar to glue but much more acidic. I have prepared it with store bought chemicals so maybe if i had prepared the ingredients from Wine like the old guys did maybe the result would be better. Diethyl Ether worked best for me in this experiment.

Andro
08-26-2012, 10:46 AM
My way of volatizing the Tartar was in fact the R+C method from their third degree instruction.

Just in case, I've posted Van Helmont's method above as well.

It appears indeed that 'canonical' preparations are much better suited for this than the store-bought ones...


it appears to me that nobody from Alchemical branch is not healing anyone! Is this sound right to you?
To be honest i was little ashamed when they asked me how many people did i healed with my alchemical medicines?

Have you had the opportunity to test the extract for improving various medical conditions?

True Initiate
08-26-2012, 11:43 AM
I agree with you about 'canonical' preparations.

When you compare Van Hemonts method with my R+C method you will see that the Key of volatization is to replace Carbonic acid with some other acid like Acetic to reduce the melting point of the salt otherwise the salt cann't be volatized if it stays as a Carbonate.

I have tried the medicine on myself and it had very interesting effects. The most powerfull aspect was increased sexual desire with being in the good mood most of the time like i was high. I think high dosage of Safran was responsible for this effect. I'm not sure about medicinal aspects because i wasn't sick at the time.

Salazius
08-27-2012, 08:46 AM
Yes Safran is linked with sexuality, and arousal. But after a while the effect tend to disappear.

lwowl
11-15-2012, 10:15 PM
OK.

First we need of course to make a very pure white (fixed) potash from the starting material. It's an art in itself...

About the Di-Ethyl Ether extraction:

I have only used it on regular plant material (some plants have a lot of fixed resinous sulfur) and on Urine and Wine material.

The Di-Ethyl Ether extraction beats the hell out of distillation.

For plant material (with lots of fixed sulfur) I have used 1 Liter of Ether for every 50 grams of plant material. That's a lot, but it gets out all the sulfur.

I can't speculate the quantities needed for Saffron, etc... You'll have to test...

I have soaked the dry plant matter in Di-Ethyl Ether for NO MORE than 5 minutes. If kept more, the solvent may pick up unwanted stuff.

The time may vary with other types of matters, for a more 'solid' material it could take more.

Then everything gets filtered trough a filtering cloth into an evaporating dish, the matter is left behind and you keep what is in solution with the Ether (which by now has changed color because of the Sulfur).

Di-Ethyl Ether BOILS at 34 degrees C (in the palm of your hand), so the electric stove for the evaporation dish shouldn't be set higher than let's say 50 C (for speeding things up a bit).

Keep the evaporation area well ventilated, preferably with a fan blowing the Ether vapors away into the open. Alternatively, the Ether can be recovered by distillation (same temperature range).

Make ABSOLUTELY sure there is no danger of any kind of ignition - no flames, no matches, no exposed heating elements, etc...

The odor is very strong and may raise suspicion if you live in an urban area (neighbors, etc...)

It's best not to spend too much time in the evaporation space, just check on it every once in a while.

IMPORTANT:

Before the Ether is completely gone (while there is still some left in the dish/flask), MOVE the solution to a small, flat and all-accessible dish, like a petri dish.

This is because the resinous Sulfur may likely harden a lot, and this would make it impossible to take out from a regular boiling flask.

So evaporate the remaining Solvent from the perti dish, and you will be left with the fixed sulfur of the material, which may get very hard when cooled.

I have never worked with the matters you want to try, but it is possible they need to be prepared/powdered or otherwise treated to enable or enhance the Ether extraction.

All this is from personal experience.

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

It's not a good idea to recover or re-distil diethyl ether. Explosive peroxides can develop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether_peroxide
Better to evaporate off the ether.

lwowl

Andro
11-15-2012, 11:35 PM
It's not a good idea to recover or re-distil diethyl ether. Explosive peroxides can develop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethyl_ether_peroxide
Better to evaporate off the ether.

Hi |wow|,

We have already safely recovered many gallons of Di-Ethyl Ether with no mishaps whatsoever, mainly because it's relatively expensive to buy where I am.

Still, Safety First! (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3018-Safety-first!) - So thank you for the information about the explosive peroxides that can develop. We'll be cautious if we ever work with this solvent again.

lwowl
11-16-2012, 06:14 PM
Hi |wow|,

We have already safely recovered many gallons of Di-Ethyl Ether with no mishaps whatsoever, mainly because it's relatively expensive to buy where I am.

Still, Safety First! (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3018-Safety-first!) - So thank you for the information about the explosive peroxides that can develop. We'll be cautious if we ever work with this solvent again.

In the US you can buy diethyl ether in small spray cans at automotive supply stores for starting gasoline engines. I don’t use it anymore. I do it the old way by “skinning the toad.” It takes longer but the results are worth it. Of course this is for Spagyric lab processes with herbs. Lab Alchemy work is a different process involving other protocols.
Spagyrics separate, purify and recombine components. Alchemy changes the structure of the components forming new compounds with very interesting and useful properties: polycyclic, polymeric aromatic resonators.

lwowl

Andro
10-10-2014, 12:40 PM
The first experiment that i want to try is Elixir Proprietatis prepared from Myrrhe, Aloe and Safran
http://www.scribd.com/doc/53140991/Van-Helmont-Elixir-proprietatis

Has this experiment gone anywhere interesting?


The last is mysterious solvent Volatized Salt of Tartar which of course can't be volatilized by using only Alcohol but Baron Urbigerus was more charitable in revealing how to prepare it.

The Volatilized Salt of Tartar is often referred to as 'the next best thing', IF one cannot discover the 'Hidden Fire' (i.e. the 'Sublimed Stone' of St. Didier, the 'Androgynous Matter' of Cyliani, containing the 2 Central Fires, etc...)

The above linked 'Elixir Proprietatis' manuscript specifically 'warns' that volatilizing (for example) with an 'Oyl' (like Oil of Sulfur by Bell, or essential oils + balsams as per Urbigerus)) is not the 'true' way of the Philosophers, but that the 'true' volatilization must occur by means of the 'Spirit of Wine'. This work also involves a blackening of the matter, which other methods apparently don't. Now obviously, we're not talking about common SV, so I am suggesting that what the author actually refers to is the Philosophical Spirit of Wine, like that of 'Lully' and others, of which there are quite a few variations. This Ph. SV can indeed volatilize salts, as I have observed in the Work of a Friend. It also becomes more 'potent' with every use, as it becomes increasingly enriched with the volatile principles it acquires with every 'extraction'.

Krisztian
10-10-2014, 01:37 PM
. . . we're not talking about common SV, so I am suggesting that what the author actually refers to is the Philosophical Spirit of Wine, like that of 'Lully' and others, of which there are quite a few variations. . .

Yes.

Rulandus' Lexicon was very helpful in this process of figuring out the possible other variations as you say. Much of the modern confusion comes from taking a word used in 16th century and interpreting it at face value with modern meaning. I didn't do this particular path, but your observation applies to other works where I ran into this riddle.

Salazius
10-11-2014, 11:04 AM
The last is mysterious solvent Volatized Salt of Tartar which of course cann't be volatized by using only Alcohol but Baron Urbigerus was more charitable in revealing how to prepare it.

Alcohol AND water.

True Initiate
10-11-2014, 11:50 AM
Has this experiment gone anywhere interesting?

Yes, it did. After drinkng it i've spent a whole day in the bathroom afraid to move too far away from the toilet. Gum of Aloe is a laxative and a very good one at that if it is what you looking for. It had horrible bitter taste and brownish and greenish colour but back then i was calling myself a True Puffer and truly i was one. Now i look at those materials as potential carriers and magnets for the SM.

Andro
04-11-2015, 09:25 PM
http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc91/th_970404159_1_122_91lo.jpg

Mr. True, pardon my ignorance, but what do these http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/Symbols_zpsjk2welhs.jpg symbols mean? I don't think I've encountered them before...

True Initiate
04-12-2015, 03:57 AM
Always check the original in native language. Ok, let's see:


http://img256.imagevenue.com/loc1/th_809344235_1_122_1lo.jpg (http://img256.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=809344235_1_122_1lo.jpg)

In the first symbol we have a cross with four dots around it which stands for distilled vinegar:

http://img256.imagevenue.com/loc390/th_810171683_4_122_390lo.jpg (http://img256.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=810171683_4_122_390lo.jpg)

The next symbol is composed of two signs, a symbol for spirit and a letter v written under it:

http://img134.imagevenue.com/loc197/th_812024685_5_122_197lo.jpg (http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=812024685_5_122_197lo.jpg)


Which stands for Spiritus Vini.

Andro
04-12-2015, 05:38 AM
Thank you!

In my defense, I don't have the original :)

I thought the first one would be distilled vinegar, because it's too similar to the more 'common' symbol we know... But I just had to ask...

What threw me off in the second one, is that the sign under 'spirit' looks a lot like Aries, so I didn't make the V connection...

Learn something every day :)

Much appreciated!

-----------------------------------------------------

Salazius
04-12-2015, 10:13 AM
By deduction I came to the same conclusion, but thank you very much Mr TI for the confirmation ! :)
TI, did your tartar salt was under an oil form for this experiment or as a dry salt ?
And did your salt volatilized or just came as an oil by the end of the distillation as it can sometime manifest ?