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Krisztian
07-22-2012, 02:51 AM
The other day I had quite the surprise when I was browsing the library at the Lodge. I was drawn to a book on Royal Arch. In it, I noticed a photo of something I was looking at days prior in relating to Fulcanelli and his observations.

Please take a look this link of the photo: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=651&d=1342924994

Does anyone have further information about this rather enigmatic photo? (At the center you'll notice the 'G'.)

solomon levi
07-22-2012, 06:06 AM
"The tau is the mark described at Ezekiel 9:4, to be placed by an angel on the foreheads of those who mourned the wickedness of the city, in order that the angel of death would forego slaying them. Thus the triple tau is symbolic of the peculiar and more eminent separation of the Holy Royal Arch Freemasons from the profane. The triple tau is constructed of three tau crosses conjoined at their feet. According to the English Royal Arch lecture, “The triple tau forms two right angles on each of the exterior lines, and another at the centre, by their union; for the three angles of each triangle are equal to two right angles.” Within Royal Arch Freemasonry, the Triple Tau began as a monogram of T over H for “Templum Hierosolymae” (Temple of Jerusalem), appearing on the original Charter of Compact for the first Grand Chapter of England and on early Royal Arch jewels and aprons. Here, again, we have Thomas Dunckerley to thank; the monogram’s meaning is evidenced in a letter he penned on 27 January 1792. The T and H lost their serifs and merged into the Triple-Tau sometime in the early 1800s. It has also been noted that the letters are the initials for “Hiram of Tyre”. Also worth noting is that this degree was originally open only to past masters of craft lodges, and the three taus are essentially identical in shape to the three levels borne on the apron of an installed or past master of a lodge under English, Canadian and other jurisdictions (one level on each lower corner, and one on the bib)."
http://www.ram-il.org/CapitularDegrees.htm

"In the midst of life we are in death." is a line from the Burial of the Dead in the Book of Common Prayer.

Krisztian
07-22-2012, 04:16 PM
"The tau is the mark described at Ezekiel 9:4, to be placed by an angel on the foreheads of those who mourned the wickedness of the city, in order that the angel of death would forego slaying them. Thus the triple tau is symbolic of the peculiar and more eminent separation of the Holy Royal Arch Freemasons from the profane. The triple tau is constructed of three tau crosses conjoined at their feet. According to the English Royal Arch lecture, “The triple tau forms two right angles on each of the exterior lines, and another at the centre, by their union; for the three angles of each triangle are equal to two right angles.” Within Royal Arch Freemasonry, the Triple Tau began as a monogram of T over H for “Templum Hierosolymae” (Temple of Jerusalem), appearing on the original Charter of Compact for the first Grand Chapter of England and on early Royal Arch jewels and aprons. Here, again, we have Thomas Dunckerley to thank; the monogram’s meaning is evidenced in a letter he penned on 27 January 1792. The T and H lost their serifs and merged into the Triple-Tau sometime in the early 1800s. It has also been noted that the letters are the initials for “Hiram of Tyre”. Also worth noting is that this degree was originally open only to past masters of craft lodges, and the three taus are essentially identical in shape to the three levels borne on the apron of an installed or past master of a lodge under English, Canadian and other jurisdictions (one level on each lower corner, and one on the bib)."
http://www.ram-il.org/CapitularDegrees.htm

"In the midst of life we are in death." is a line from the Burial of the Dead in the Book of Common Prayer.

Very interesting. Thank you.

John Michael Greer
07-22-2012, 06:26 PM
Krisztian, how do you interpret this in relation to Fulcanelli's work? I've read both the Fulcanelli books, but don't claim to have understood them, and would welcome some tips. (As I'm a Royal Arch Mason, this has non-alchemical interest to me as well...)

Krisztian
07-22-2012, 07:33 PM
I've read both the Fulcanelli books, but don't claim to have understood them, and would welcome some tips. (As I'm a Royal Arch Mason, this has non-alchemical interest to me as well...)

At this point in my study, call it evolution of soul, whatever, it doesn't matter, I don't differentiate between alchemy and the rituals, symbolism, etc. of Freemasonry. It's one and the same.

I also attend Lodges here in Canada and US.

True Initiate
07-22-2012, 09:35 PM
Albert Pike has some interesting comments on letter G in his Morals and Dogma:

http://img149.imagevenue.com/loc206/th_989434891_1_122_206lo.jpg (http://img149.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989434891_1_122_206lo.jpg) http://img143.imagevenue.com/loc37/th_989439283_2_122_37lo.jpg (http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989439283_2_122_37lo.jpg)

Later the meaning expands:

http://img140.imagevenue.com/loc108/th_298948293_3_122_108lo.jpg (http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=298948293_3_122_108lo.jpg) http://img31.imagevenue.com/loc123/th_989488481_4_122_123lo.jpg (http://img31.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989488481_4_122_123lo.jpg)

And in the Higher degrees this explanation is given:

http://img293.imagevenue.com/loc359/th_989684331_5_122_359lo.jpg (http://img293.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989684331_5_122_359lo.jpg) http://img282.imagevenue.com/loc63/th_989689646_6_122_63lo.jpg (http://img282.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989689646_6_122_63lo.jpg) http://img278.imagevenue.com/loc260/th_989691865_7_122_260lo.jpg (http://img278.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=989691865_7_122_260lo.jpg)

I am sure there are on ther meanings as well like on this site:
http://whale.to/c/g.html

thoth
07-22-2012, 10:29 PM
Hi Krisztian,

I remember watching one of the obscure fringe tv channels which had great documentaries on alternative subjects. One doc had a Freemason, one of the items he talked about was "G", that it referred to the "G"enerative force, or rather as it applied to males and the building up of that force and redirected.

Looking at your pic, the curl at the end of the G, icon is like an incomplete star - like a ring of energy running through the star.

Krisztian
07-22-2012, 10:49 PM
Looking at your pic, the curl at the end of the G, icon is like an incomplete star - like a ring of energy running through the star.


Albert Pike has some interesting comments on letter G in his Morals and Dogma.


You see, this is why I love this Forum! True Puffer and thoth - thanks Gentlemen!

John Michael Greer
07-23-2012, 05:39 AM
Krisztian, fair enough -- I'll take the hint, and do my own digging through Fulcanelli.

True Puffer, many thanks! it's been too long since I've read Pike, anyway -- I'd forgotten about that remarkably detailed account of the Great Work in the Knight of the Sun degree. Clearly I'll have to reread the whole thing in the not too distant future.

Thoth, a teacher of mine once claimed that the G in the Masonic emblem had four meanings. To the ordinary, exoteric Freemason, it means God; to those who grasp its philosophical side, Geometry; to those who grasp its political dimensions, Government; to those who understand its esoteric core, Generation. My teacher didn't cite a source for the claim, alas.

vega33
07-23-2012, 06:49 AM
I suspect Kriztian is referring to the following passage in Dwellings of the Philosophers:


Such is the chemical composition of the Kohl of oriental women, used by the ancient alchemists as a term of comparison to teach the secret preparation of their antimony. It is the solar eye Egyptians called oudja, which also figure among the Masonic emblems, surrounded by a halo, in the center of a triangle (28). This symbol offers the same meaning as the letter G, seventh of the alphabet, initial of the common name of the Subject of the sages, represented in the middle of a radiating star. This matter is Artephius’ Saturnine Antimony, Tollius’ regulus of antimony, and the true and only stibium of Michael Maier and all the Adepts. As for mineral stibnite, it possesses none of the required qualities, and whatever the manner in which we want to treat it, neither the secret solvent nor the philosophical mercury will ever be obtained from it. If Basil Valentine gives philosophical mercury the nickname of pilgrim or traveler ([*235-1] --- stibeus) (29), because it must, says he, go through six celestial cities before fixing its residence in the seventh; if Philalethes affirms it is our only path ([*235-2] --- stibia), this is not sufficient to invoke that these masters claimed to designate common antimony as the regenerator of philosophical mercury. This substance is too far from perfection, from purity, and the acquired spirituality of the humid root or metallic seed --- which one could anyway not find on earth --- to be genuinely useful to us. The antimony of the sages, raw matter directly extracted from the mine, "is not properly mineral, and even less metallic as Philalethes (30) teaches us; but without partaking of these two substances it is something between one and the other. It is not corporeal however, because it is entirely volatile; it is not spirit because it liquefies like metal in fire. It is therefore a chaos which stands in stead of mother to all metals". It is the metallic and mineral flower ([*235-3] --- anthemon), the first rose, black in truth, which has remained down here as a part of the elementary chaos. From it, from this flower of flowers (flos florum) we first draw our frost ([*235-4] --- stibe) which is the spirit moving on the surface of the waters and the white ornament of the angels; reduced to this bright whiteness, it is the mirror of the art, the torch ([*235-5] --- stilbe), the lamp or lantern (31), the brightness of stars and splendor of the sun (splendor solis); still, united to philosophical gold, it becomes the metallic planet Mercury ([*235-6] --- stilbonaster), the nest of the bird ([*235-7] --- stibas), our Phoenix and its small stone ([*235-8] --- stia); finally it is the root, subject, or pivot (Latin, stipes, stirps) of the Great Work and not common antimony. Know then, brothers, so as to no longer err, that our term of antimony, derived from the Greek [*235-9] --- antemon, designates through a pun familiar to philosophers, the ane-Timon (32), the guide which in the Bible leads the Jews to the Fountain. It is the mythical Aliboron, [*236-1], horse of the sun. One more word. You probably know that in primitive language, Greek cabalists used to substitute numbers for certain consonants, for words whose common meaning they wanted to veil under a hermetic meaning. And so they used the epistimon ([*236-2]--- stagion)(33), Koppa, sampi, digamma (34), to which they granted a conventional value. The names modified by this process formed genuine cryptograms, although their form and their pronunciation did not seem to have undergone any alteration. Furthermore, the word, antimony, [*236-3], stimmi, when it was used to signify the hermetic subject, was always written with the episemon ([*236-4], equivalent of the consonants sigma and tau together. Written in this manner [*236-5] --- simmi, it is no longer the stibnite of mineralogists, but indeed a matter signed by nature, or still better, a movement, a dynamism, or a vibration, a sealed life ([*236-6 --- simenai) so as to allow a man to identify it, a very peculiar signature submitted to the rules of the number six. In addition, a close term frequently used in phonetic cabala for assonance, the word [*236-7] --- epistemon indicates one who knows, one whois informed of, one who is skilled at. In Rabelais’ book Pantagruel, one of the main characters, the man of science, is called Epistemon. He is the seret artisan, the spirit, the mind enclosed in raw substance as translated by the Greek epistemon, because the spirit can single-handedly perform and perfect the entire work without any other help apart from elementary fire.

John Michael Greer
07-25-2012, 05:45 AM
Vega33, many thanks!

Krisztian
07-26-2012, 12:17 AM
Krisztian, fair enough -- I'll take the hint, and do my own digging through Fulcanelli.

I added a comment on Sunday (3 Days Ago) to briefly elaborate on what you asked; I can't find the posting now under this Thread. I'm trying to recall what I said. Please forgive me.

My research has taken me to suspect that Fulcanelli, a chemist, or should I say, master of [old French] alquimie, 'borrowed', used, uncovered, or whatever the term that best suits it, the symbol I started this Thread with, which has significance to Royal Arch, to Freemasonry in general. After some meditation on the subject, for my curiosity was elevated when several events of synchronicity 'knocked on my door', I needed to investigate it further.

English chemist John Dalton (19th Century, relevant detail) also referenced the "G" captured inside a circle under his chart of chemical symbols, 7th symbol in his system. It refers to 'gold'. That fact also gets mentioned in the section vega33 kindly posted about 'Masonic emblems', Fulcanelli alludes to it as 'solar eye'.

What this seems to indicate that the overemphasis of Masonic Rituals about 'the stone' isn't regarding, lifeless brick of stone. It's about Eau-de-Vie, Spiritus mundi, or maybe Philosopher's Stone? Probably, one would suspect involving solar activity.

So, it has come to my attention that the entire sequence of Masonic Rituals are encoded with very relevant, very real alchemical operations and steps. In other words, the initiate must turn - here comes the cliché - lead into gold but how?

Ouroboros
07-26-2012, 06:41 AM
syncronocity...i don't know much about it..maybe there is theme about it, but since it is connected with fulcanelli among other i hope you won't be angry for offtopic :)
i think that these random situations which seem like coincidence, but are thitly connected with my inner experiencies and thoughts, begun with, i think, my spiritual awakening. interesting coincidence about fulcanelli, yesterday i bought mystery of cathedrals, and now his name pops up here, and i was absent for few weeks.
often these coincidence are connected with my dreams. recently i had a dream about some red/gold painting od ouroboros whose author was goethe, although i never read him before.i research his works where he manchioned ouroboros and lovely story about green snake and beautifull lilly came to me.
often i dream about water. anyone have idea what that could mean? few days ago i had a dream about some very filthy water. girl in red dress jump in it and than rise from it with her long black hair over her face...it was scary picture. day after i find video never let me go by florence, and for the first time i read lyrics, and i had strong emotional feeling...
yesterday one friend send me video - what the bleep do we know, just the day after i saw reference for same video on some gnostic site.
usual one coincidence lead to another, and i try to follow them, it seem like signs. is it synchronicity?
and i will get back to fulcanelli when i read it. :)
sorry for off...

solomon levi
07-26-2012, 09:38 AM
"It is the solar eye Egyptians called oudja, which also figure among the Masonic emblems, surrounded by a halo, in the
center of a triangle. This symbol offers the same meaning as the letter G, seventh of the alphabet, initial of the common
name of the Subject of the sages, represented in the middle of a radiating star."

http://www.whale.to/b/false_54.jpg

here's a nice one. with gnosis and the triangle embossed.
gold certainly seems to be what "they" worship, but it doesn't fit
Fulcanelli's description: not a metal or mineral; he even says:
"which one could anyway not find on earth".
Use of the word chaos makes me think of Gas:
"It is not corporeal however, because it is entirely volatile; it is not spirit because it liquefies
like metal in fire. It is therefore a chaos which stands in stead of mother to all metals".
I wondered if there is a gas that "liquefies in a fire".
"The wind carries it in its belly."

I understand the eye is the symbol of Amun (as well as Horus), the hidden one/god.
So this leads me to ammonium gases, ammonium nitrate in dew, rain, frost:
"From it, from this flower of flowers (flos florum) we first draw our frost..."
Flower:
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkR9WqUbpx3gBHpAlnjSdo83anZgnjM frTuC1EgzEVF2o7JD8efw

Here we see sal armonacum as sun:
"It is the solar eye Egyptians called oudja, which also figure among the Masonic emblems, surrounded by a halo, in the center of a triangle."
http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/362792/large/V2100018-Alchemy_symbols-SPL.jpg
This sixness is seen in our cubic stone:
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT60SC8Kles3RRrLlG8wv0iDDtiT-jxCFFYSRpifCdMdA1HO5xO7Q

"a matter signed by nature, or still better, a movement, a dynamism, or a vibration, a sealed life ([*236-6 --- simenai)
so as to allow a man to identify it, a very peculiar signature submitted to the rules of the number six."

"If Basil Valentine gives philosophical mercury the nickname of pilgrim or traveler ([*235-1] --- stibeus) (29),
because it must, says he, go through six celestial cities before fixing its residence in the seventh.":

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVgjmLk-1Uh4UzRuNIIyselGcpbm3bJQCs9OoHGMuJcewNqmmqaw

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSozzqmZtWxOkXUopGKBnJXcm1RKzphj tk3oKC1GJTA3_1tVwo7Xw

"ITS POWER IS PERFECT IF IT BE CHANGED INTO THE EARTH":

ammonium carbonate - volatile alkali - offa alba

"from this flower of flowers (flos florum) we first draw our frost ([*235-4] --- stibe) which is the spirit moving on the
surface of the waters and the white ornament of the angels; reduced to this bright whiteness, it is the mirror of the art, the torch."


That's my comprehension anyways. :)

Krisztian
07-26-2012, 06:05 PM
Fulcanelli's description: not a metal or mineral; he even says:
"which one could anyway not find on earth".Use of the word chaos makes me think of Gas:
"It is not corporeal however, because it is entirely volatile; it is not spirit because it liquefies
like metal in fire. It is therefore a chaos which stands in stead of mother to all metals".
I wondered if there is a gas that "liquefies in a fire".
"The wind carries it in its belly."

Wow, thanks for those photos! That's absolutely amazing!

You know, that's why I like the set of plates from Crowning of Nature. It parallels what Fulcanelli describes, chaos is one of the first Plates. I think you could be right, maybe gas. I was suspecting some sort of solar event, solar radiation, like Black Sun, or alignment of sun with moon, Planet Earth in-between, like an eclipse of the moon that sends in 'forces', radiation, "invisible gas" as a result of occultation.

From Wikipedia: "An occultation is an event that occurs when one object is hidden by another object that passes between it and the observer. The word is used in astronomy."

Yes, captured in liquid, but only for brief period. Then released, as all things are in Nature.

/

O, I got to go now. My clients are showing up. Couldn't finish my train of thought.

Krisztian
07-26-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm thinking that our respiratory system [Air] would firstly carry it, and eventually integrate it into our watery-body structure [Water]. It's inside of us [Earth] or, it can be grounded, I think. Its kept there because of our 'secret fire', continuous, consistent, never goes out (unless departure we call 'death') between 35 to 40 Celsius [Fire]. As long as the spirit remains. The reptile image over the 'eye in the center of the sun' (on the stone) reminds me that it has connection to our reptilian brain, older structure.

Valentine and his quote about the 'six celestial cities' sounds like the force slows it's frequency, it's vibration to enter our Plane. For me, that's emanation, solar radiation of some sort.

Fulcanelli uses so many similar concepts that I find in the symbolism of Crowning of Nature.

Krisztian
07-27-2012, 03:46 AM
Freemason, one of the items he talked about was "G", that it referred to the "G"enerative force, or rather as it applied to males and the building up of that force and redirected. Looking at your pic, the curl at the end of the G, icon is like an incomplete star - like a ring of energy running through the star.

That photo of Fulcanelli's "G" represents a cypher of something that I think worth looking at. It's geometrically from the fusion of two triangles. Basic alchemical symbolism: the downward pointing one signifying element Water and the upward pointing representing alchemical symbol of Fire, later of which I see as secret fire.

I believe when you fuse the two, into one Earth, meaning 'in the body of an organism', the living incubator (references are made between a Masons' apron and the alchemical symbol for the crucible); you have what the "G" represents, what Fulcanelli says 'seventh of the alphabet', also Dalton's symbol for gold. Air carries the solar radiation, solar eye.

Thoth, thanks for that posting, I think, that's important also, "G"enerative force as you write.

John Michael Greer
07-27-2012, 06:35 AM
Krisztian, that makes a good deal of sense, in historic as well as symbolic ways -- a good many of the earliest accepted Masons (men initiated into lodges who were not working stonemasons) were in fact alchemists, with Elias Ashmole a good example. And of course Fulcanelli worked in a milieu (early 20th century French occult scene) that was permeated with Masonic and quasi-Masonic ideas, symbols and rituals, reaching back to 18th century occult Masonry of the Martinez de Pasqually variety.

One question well worth considering might be -- which sequence of Masonic rituals? Different rites have different rituals, in different sequences; some (for example, the Scottish Rite) were massively rearranged for other purposes (Pike was a brilliant occultist but I don't know of any evidence that he was a practicing alchemist) while others are older, and potentially still present a specific sequence of operations. I note, for example, that the York Rite contains 12 levels -- 3 Blue Lodge, 4 Chapter, 2 Council, and 3 Commandery -- which might be worth mapping onto the Twelve Gates.

Definitely worth further study!

solomon levi
07-27-2012, 12:32 PM
That photo of Fulcanelli's "G" represents a cypher of something that I think worth looking at. It's geometrically from the fusion of two triangles. Basic alchemical symbolism: the downward pointing one signifying element Water and the upward pointing representing alchemical symbol of Fire, later of which I see as secret fire.

I believe when you fuse the two, into one Earth, meaning 'in the body of an organism', the living incubator (references are made between a Masons' apron and the alchemical symbol for the crucible); you have what the "G" represents, what Fulcanelli says 'seventh of the alphabet', also Dalton's symbol for gold. Air carries the solar radiation, solar eye.

Thoth, thanks for that posting, I think, that's important also, "G"enerative force as you write.

I like this too. Generate.
Fire and water generate air/gas, which has magically been associated with the mental plane.
In Hermeticism "All is Mind". I've been speaking about this as dimension, but that is probably
too abstract a word for people to relate to. If you've seen the illusory nature of the ego, then you
have a good idea of what a dimension, a bubble, an hermetically sealed space is - the hexagon/cube
formed/"G"enerated by the two triangles (which are only two in appearance - one thing/nothing
folded onto itself).
"G"enesis 1:1
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
If we can take that linearly, the heavens הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם is the first thing God created, and it is spelled with the
glyphs for fire and water, as alchemists and qabalists know:
"SHAMAYIM, say our Sages (Chagigah 12a, Rashi on Bereishit 1:8), is a compound of ESH (fire) and MAYIM (water);
it is where opposites coexist. Those entities which, from an earthly perspective, are perceived as antipodal, originate from Hashem.
This does not, in any way, stand in opposition to Hashem’s Absolute Oneness."
source - http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5764/vayera64.htm

"it is where opposites coexist" = volatile alkali: fix the volatile, volatilise the fixed: rebus, etc.

I also related some of this in the thread BRAShITh. Besides "in the beginning", this can be interpreted as BRA ShITh, "he created six" -
thus Fulcanelli's reference to sigma/digamma/six. Fulcanelli also speaks of the significance of the lamb - using phonetic cabala as he
does repeatedly, in french lamb is "agneau", which is again fire/agni (not french - "The word agni is Sanskrit for "fire" (noun), cognate with
Latin ignis (the root of English ignite); In Hinduism, his vehicle is the ram" - wikipedia) and water/eau (french). And the lamb is the whiteness
as explained in my previous post. But Fulcanelli may be referring to something other than volatile alkali when he refers to the lamb.

thoth
07-27-2012, 11:04 PM
Krisztian, your pic is reminiscent of Fulcanelli's cross of Hendaye.

And I don't know if it's just coincidental, but the G is the one letter you would choose if you were trying to suggest a spiral. The star at the starting point of the G spiral, emanating out. The 5 pointed star at end of G like "MAN" the microcosm, surrounded by the 6 pointed microcosm.

Krisztian
07-27-2012, 11:43 PM
Krisztian, your pic is reminiscent of Fulcanelli's cross of Hendaye.

And I don't know if it's just coincidental, but the G is the one letter you would choose if you were trying to suggest a spiral. The star at the starting point of the G spiral, emanating out. The 5 pointed star at end of G like "MAN" the microcosm, surrounded by the 6 pointed microcosm.

Thanks for pointing that out, thoth! Your comments always are appreciated. Yes, that's rather interesting.

Krisztian
07-28-2012, 12:05 AM
Krisztian, that makes a good deal of sense, in historic as well as symbolic ways -- a good many of the earliest accepted Masons (men initiated into lodges who were not working stonemasons) were in fact alchemists, with Elias Ashmole a good example. And of course Fulcanelli worked in a milieu (early 20th century French occult scene) that was permeated with Masonic and quasi-Masonic ideas, symbols and rituals, reaching back to 18th century occult Masonry of the Martinez de Pasqually variety.

One question well worth considering might be -- which sequence of Masonic rituals? Different rites have different rituals, in different sequences; some (for example, the Scottish Rite) were massively rearranged for other purposes (Pike was a brilliant occultist but I don't know of any evidence that he was a practicing alchemist) while others are older, and potentially still present a specific sequence of operations. I note, for example, that the York Rite contains 12 levels -- 3 Blue Lodge, 4 Chapter, 2 Council, and 3 Commandery -- which might be worth mapping onto the Twelve Gates.

Definitely worth further study!

Master builder's death, Hiram Abiff's, representing the first alchemical phase, nigredo (or blackening). . . .

I tend to lean on Englishman Francis Bacon as the founder of speculative English Freemasonry, also used a pseudonymous mask, we come to know as, Shakespeare. Queen Elizabeth referred to him as "baby Solomon". Peter Dawkins' research has this writer convinced at least.

Take a look at the titlepages of Bacon's

Novum Organum (1620) - Entering the Temple
Of the Advancement and Proficience of Learning (1640) - Passing Beyond the Pillars
Sylva Sylvarum or A Natural History (1626) - Raised into Light

What comes to mind? Blue Lodge, 1st, 2nd, 3rd degrees?

Krisztian
07-28-2012, 12:22 AM
Fulcanelli also speaks of the significance of the lamb - using phonetic cabala as he does repeatedly, in french lamb is "agneau", which is again fire/agni (not french - "The word agni is Sanskrit for "fire" (noun), cognate with Latin ignis (the root of English ignite); In Hinduism, his vehicle is the ram" - wikipedia) and water/eau (french). And the lamb is the whiteness as explained in my previous post.

I also think it's another cipher, the lamb is. I tend to always go back to my faithful book of Chevalier and Gheerbrant called The Penguin Dictionary of Symbols. Yes, the lamb refers to "spotless, white, and shinning, [but also] as a manifestation of the power of Spring! It embodies the triumph of renewal, of the victory, always to be won afresh, of life over death" (p. 585).


But Fulcanelli may be referring to something other than volatile alkali when he refers to the lamb.

Do you mean sacrificial blood? Some watery-essence of men?

solomon levi
07-28-2012, 02:48 AM
I also think it's another cipher, the lamb is. I tend to always go back to my faithful book of Chevalier and Gheerbrant called The Penguin Dictionary of Symbols. Yes, the lamb refers to "spotless, white, and shinning, [but also] as a manifestation of the power of Spring! It embodies the triumph of renewal, of the victory, always to be won afresh, of life over death" (p. 585).



Do you mean sacrificial blood? Some watery-essence of men?

Well, he mentions the roasting of the lamb a couple times, and I can't imagine roasting volatile alkali;
I imagine the roasting of antimony. Antimony is supposed to be aries ruled. But it doesn't seem to fit
the whiteness except perhaps as antimony tri-oxide it is white. Fulcanelli certainly seems to describe the antimony path
at some instances - antimony with iron makes the star regulus (when well purified with tartar and nitre) and it
also makes the net with copper. But that's part of Fulcanelli's mischeviousness - he describes more than one method
and they're all jumbled together, so you have to discern which path he is talking about when.
Some people think he speaks of a path with "G"alena, lead sulphide; some think arsenic. And then he also describes
the "pure" path of Spiritus Mundi. Some also think the cinnabar path is described. It's hard to say.
I really favor the urine path and creating a volatile alkali from that.
I was hoping to make some progress with the urine alkahest and volatile alkali, but I had to move and haven't had
a lab for a few months now. :( I see a phosphorus/Venus/Lucifer path described by Fulcanelli. Phosphorus actually
manifests in black, white and red forms. It's somewhat dangerous to work with if isolated from urine, but safer
when not isolated.

Krisztian
07-28-2012, 04:23 AM
It is therefore a chaos which stands in stead of mother to all metals".
I wondered if there is a gas that "liquefies in a fire".

van Helmont, as you probably know, also made that connection from the Greek word "chaos" to gas. Is that why you mentioned it?

vega33
07-28-2012, 10:46 AM
van Helmont, as you probably know, also made that connection from the Greek word "chaos" to gas. Is that why you mentioned it?

Thats a really interesting connection, chaos in ancient Greek is actually an abyss/void place/chasm.

One other possibility is this:

(from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%28cosmogony%29))

Martin Ruland, in his 1612 Lexicon Alchemiae, states, "A crude mixture of matter or another name for Materia Prima is Chaos, as it is in the Beginning."

The term gas in chemistry was coined by Dutch chemist J. B. Van Helmont in the 17th century, directly based on the Paracelsian notion of chaos. The g in gas is due to the Dutch pronunciation of this letter as a spirant, also employed to pronounce Greek χ.[19]

Isn't it interesting that this is the same optic chiasma, the same black chat noir (the Khi, graphical spark of light), masks the name of the medium who's substance clothes the sun? Perhaps that old cat of ancient Egypt, the old gender bending Mau (from whom the cat gets its distinctive sound, which literally means "to see") did know something after all (http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/egyptmau.html).

solomon levi
07-28-2012, 01:00 PM
van Helmont, as you probably know, also made that connection from the Greek word "chaos" to gas. Is that why you mentioned it?

Yes. And Fulcanelli saying it is entirely volatile and not found on earth.

Chaos also shares gematria correspondences (value 871) with Αγνιζω Agnizo - purify/cleanse;
also Αφρος Aphros - foam (Aphrodite) and παραδεισου paradeisou - paradise;
and αποστολον apostolon - apostle... AHS Fulcanelli - Apostle of Hermetic Science. :)

Andro
07-28-2012, 01:46 PM
Fulcanelli saying it is entirely volatile and not found on earth.

If we are referring to the same Chaos, I'd say it can be found EVERYWHERE: On Earth, in Space, in the entire Universe, at ALL times.

(Except on the Archetypal 'Day of Rest', when the Primordial Polarities collide, when Time-Space becomes infinitely compressed, and the super-dense/concentrated Fire implodes back into 'Nothing').

Infinity is dead. Long live Infinity! :)

I would agree that it is not found pure/uncorrupted/unspecified, unless made manifest by Art.

But this only means I haven't personally seen such a manifestation in UN-aided Nature - not that it isn't possible :)

As for the 'G' (Fulcanelli's or not) - what I see is the G-like Glyph of Capricorn (The Builder, The Goat, Pan/Universal, Saturn/Time/Space).

And this (IMO) does not at all contradict what was said above, because it IS our Chaos.

And in this case, what would be the 'Stone' that the 'Builders' rejected?

One explanation could be that it means the Chaos that has not (yet) been used/manifested/determined for 'Reality Construction'.
__________________________________________________

Also, in relation to the symbolism of G, it may be worth to check out THIS THREAD (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1954-G) as well.

solomon levi
07-28-2012, 02:56 PM
Thats a really interesting connection, chaos in ancient Greek is actually an abyss/void place/chasm.

One other possibility is this:

(from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_%28cosmogony%29))

Martin Ruland, in his 1612 Lexicon Alchemiae, states, "A crude mixture of matter or another name for Materia Prima is Chaos, as it is in the Beginning."

The term gas in chemistry was coined by Dutch chemist J. B. Van Helmont in the 17th century, directly based on the Paracelsian notion of chaos. The g in gas is due to the Dutch pronunciation of this letter as a spirant, also employed to pronounce Greek χ.[19]

Isn't it interesting that this is the same optic chiasma, the same black chat noir (the Khi, graphical spark of light), masks the name of the medium who's substance clothes the sun? Perhaps that old cat of ancient Egypt, the old gender bending Mau (from whom the cat gets its distinctive sound, which literally means "to see") did know something after all (http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/egyptmau.html).

Khi
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/khi
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kh%C3%AD

Interesting, the first link shows a vietnamese definition of khi as "to despise".
That link links to another which shows khi defined as "gas" in vietnamese.

chi
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chi

here we have a definition as "a form of psychic energy"
but again for the vietnamese (whom Fulcanelli would have loved their language I think)
we have "leg, limb", reminding me of Schwaller's references to the thigh bone
which also brings us back to:

http://www.fleurdelis.com/graphics/bone_thigh.gif

which is so often equated with the hourglass, another "chiasm"

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThWV37FHjuHqhRshvkbMkLJWRb37OYs 7KYJvLJq9Mlx-U2hUi4mA

http://www.rexresearch.com/abrelzar/pl4.gif

chiasm - chasm - void:
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbQ_XGszmTMPO5-3b-6XIcawWRgUVQpCbKL7nhNk_CAqm6fD6B

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCansSj1eylcB8pwehrPCcbB8ZIwHZh k1x6KfnEjHmROApAeeV_g

The sand flows just like the magnetic field and torus vortex.

These hourglasses and light cones almost always a line/bar down the center
which gives us the sal ammoniac symbol and the chi-rho/labarum.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStUFJwZREzu93o706hLEE4PIJ0xkcOX Y_WLhFTIRwUQ74dJjwgpw

Interestingly, some etymological sources say labarum means "four heads" as seen
in the corners of the above pic and mentioned by Ezekiel, and brings to mind alchemical
rotation of the elements. The labarum was the result of Constantines vision of a "cross of light".

solomon levi
07-28-2012, 03:59 PM
As for the 'G' (Fulcanelli's or not) - what I see is the G-like Glyph of Capricorn (The Builder, The Goat, Pan/Universal, Saturn/Time/Space).

And this (IMO) does not at all contradict what was said above, because it IS our Chaos.

And in this case, what would be the 'Stone' that the 'Builders' rejected?

One explanation could be that it means the Chaos that has not (yet) been used/manifested/determined for 'Reality Construction'.

The "G"oat brings more associations to mind, many of which are joined in this pic:
http://www.deadprogrammer.com/photos/skull-and-bones.jpg?9d7bd4

We have the "skull and bones" group, the time/clock/hourglass,
the "goat of mendes" pentagram represented by the five central
persons and the embroidered skull. Which pentagram leads us back to
Venus/Aphrodite/Phosphorus, etc... quite a labyrinth.

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ5XCUUKTqtEBp0e5vqhVeKc0LJ4ekRA PCPD-eMPGo7ZLJ5Hg4upw


It's curious, this relation between saturn and venus. The initial subject is known by both names.
Are we looking for saturn, or his daughter?
"All ores, through the Hermetic voice, rendered homage to it with their name. It is also called Black Dragon,
covered with scales, venomous serpent, daughter of Saturn and the most beloved of his children." - Fulcanelli

For me, phosphorus joins all these neatly together, being both Saturn/satan/lucifer and Venus/aphrodite/morning star.

"Wadjet was closely associated in the Egyptian pantheon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pantheon) with Bast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast_(mythology)), the fierce goddess depicted as a lioness warrior and protector, as the sun
goddess whose eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Horus) later became the eye of Horus, the eye of Ra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Ra), and as the Lady of Flame. The hieroglyph for her eye is shown below; sometimes
two are shown in the sky of religious images. Per-Wadjet also contained a sanctuary of Horus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus), the child of the sun deity who would be interpreted
to represent the pharaoh. Much later, Wadjet became associated with Isis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis) as well as with many other deities.
Another early depiction of Wadjet is as a cobra entwined around a papyrus stem, beginning in the Predynastic era (prior to 3100 B.C.) and it is thought
to be the first image that shows a snake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)) entwined around a staff symbol. This is a sacred image that appeared repeatedly in the later images and myths
of cultures surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, called the caduceus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus), which may have had separate origins.
An interpretation of the Milky Way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way) was that it was the primal snake, Wadjet, the protector of Egypt. In this interpretation she was closely associated with Hathor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hathor) and other early deities among the various aspects of the great mother goddess, including Mut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mut) and Naunet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naunet). The association with Hathor brought her son Horus into association also. The cult of Ra absorbed most of Horus's traits and included the protective eye of Wadjet that had shown her association with Hathor.
When identified as the protector of Ra, who was also a sun deity associated with heat and fire, she was sometimes said to be able to send fire onto those who might attack, just as the cobra spits poison into the eyes of its enemies.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet#cite_note-11) In this role she was called the Lady of Flame.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Wadjet_N5139_mp3h8831.jpg/200px-Wadjet_N5139_mp3h8831.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wadjet_N5139_mp3h8831.jpg)



She later became identified with the war goddess of Lower Egypt, Bast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast_(goddess)), who acted as another figure symbolic of the nation, consequently becoming Wadjet-Bast. In this role, since Bast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bast_(mythology)) was a lioness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion), Wadjet-Bast was often depicted with a lioness head.
After Lower Egypt had been conquered by Upper Egypt and they were unified, the lioness goddess of Upper Egypt, Sekhmet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet), was seen as the more powerful of the two warrior goddesses. It was Sekhmet who was seen as the Avenger of Wrongs, and the Scarlet Lady, a reference to blood, as the one with bloodlust. She is depicted with the solar disk and Wadjet, however.
Eventually, Wadjet's position as patron led to her being identified as the more powerful goddess Mut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mut), whose cult had come to the fore in conjunction with rise of the cult of Amun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun), and eventually being absorbed into her as the Mut-Wadjet-Bast triad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deities).
When the pairing of deities occurred in later Egyptian myths, since she was linked to the land, after the unification of Lower and Upper Egypt she came to be thought of as the wife of Hapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapy), a deity of the Nile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile), which flowed through the land.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet#cite_note-12)
Wadjet is not to be confused with the Egyptian demon Apep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep), who is also represented as a snake in Egyptian mythology."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadjet


That explains a lot!

Also, "The Ancient Greeks identified Hathor with the goddess Aphrodite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite) and the Romans as Venus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(mythology))."

"Her image also rears up from the staff of the "flag" poles that are used to indicate deities, as seen in the hieroglyph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieroglyph) for uraeus above and for goddess in other places."

I was trying to find this connection earlier and there it is!
The labarum is a flag, but also the rho glyph similar to our P is a flag as is the phoenician R:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Phoenician_res.svg/85px-Phoenician_res.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Phoenician_res.svg)

neter:
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQQOwLteg03FkemjKPQW51sMp_ZoRaM 33_A9Ccyes0z8-fjAws

Andro
07-28-2012, 04:12 PM
It's curious, this relation between Saturn and Venus. The initial subject is known by both names.
Are we looking for Saturn, or his daughter?

Putting metals/minerals/ores aside for a moment - What was the mythological Venus/Aphrodite born out of? Who is 'her' parent? If we momentarily consider 'Saturn' to be her possible parental archetype, then we have Saturn/Time/Space/'The See of the Philosophers' as the Chaos/First Matter that COULD be also marked by the shape of G (also alternative Glyph for Capricorn, ruled by Saturn).

Krisztian
07-28-2012, 11:23 PM
If we momentarily consider 'Saturn' to be her possible parental archetype, then we have Saturn/Time/Space/'The See of the Philosophers' as the Chaos/First Matter that COULD be also marked by the shape of G (also alternative Glyph for Capricorn, ruled by Saturn).

For the Ancients, Saturn is the High point in the Sky. Saturn is accounted the primary son of Nature (p. 10, Crowing of Nature). Plate 17 & 18, shows the black toad in the sealed flask, the sphere of Saturn swelling with tincture. According to McLean, the black toad symbolizes the essence of the Earth element. For Dubuis, ". . . in the origin the creation of man is the work of the Earth element or of the Earth energy" (p.29, The Experience of Eternity). So I think there must be something to the timing of Saturn in relation to chaos, or prima materia?

I was surprised to find that Saturnalia, is a festival of Saturn in December.
/

I'm looking at more the timetable when the most beneficial alignment occurs. Dubuis refers to it as the "head and tail of the Dragon". Well, even Aleister Crowley alludes to it; in other words, cauda and caput draconis.

John Michael Greer
08-01-2012, 06:13 AM
Master builder's death, Hiram Abiff's, representing the first alchemical phase, nigredo (or blackening). . . .

I tend to lean on Englishman Francis Bacon as the founder of speculative English Freemasonry, also used a pseudonymous mask, we come to know as, Shakespeare. Queen Elizabeth referred to him as "baby Solomon". Peter Dawkins' research has this writer convinced at least.

Take a look at the titlepages of Bacon's

Novum Organum (1620) - Entering the Temple
Of the Advancement and Proficience of Learning (1640) - Passing Beyond the Pillars
Sylva Sylvarum or A Natural History (1626) - Raised into Light

What comes to mind? Blue Lodge, 1st, 2nd, 3rd degrees?

Entirely plausible -- and since Craft Masonry was a documented phenomenon only a dozen years after Bacon's death, and was to all appearances a familiar presence in its first recorded appearance, the suggestion that he had a role in founding or reorganizing the Craft doesn't require any particular leap of historical faith.

I'm interested, though, in tracing alchemical symbolism as well into the Chapter degrees, especially the Royal Arch, which also appears to be quite ancient. The quote lwowl paraphrased from Francis Bacon comes to mind -- "once the Stone is found, the real work begins" -- and I'm wondering whether the Royal Arch or the Chapter degrees in general might embody the later stages of the Work in symbolic form.

Krisztian
08-02-2012, 01:33 AM
Entirely plausible -- and since Craft Masonry was a documented phenomenon only a dozen years after Bacon's death, and was to all appearances a familiar presence in its first recorded appearance, the suggestion that he had a role in founding or reorganizing the Craft doesn't require any particular leap of historical faith.

I'm interested, though, in tracing alchemical symbolism as well into the Chapter degrees, especially the Royal Arch, which also appears to be quite ancient. The quote lwowl paraphrased from Francis Bacon comes to mind -- "once the Stone is found, the real work begins" -- and I'm wondering whether the Royal Arch or the Chapter degrees in general might embody the later stages of the Work in symbolic form.

I'm sure glad we're engaged in this conversation! Another mason brother and I are very much researching this connection.

Peter Dawkins' work on Francis Bacon makes it very difficult to argue otherwise especially since Bacon was an exceptional poet and wrote under the pseudonym referring to Spear-shakers, now known as Shakespeare. Fulcanelli's G clearly depicted, same symbol, in Royal Arch. I can't tell you how many connections there are! (Maybe we should start a new Thread?)

Thanks for engaging in this dialogue; there isn't many in the Craft who would entertain such notions!

Ghislain
08-02-2012, 11:02 AM
Krisztian

You missed out a "supposedly" when you stated...

"since Bacon was an exceptional poet and wrote under the pseudonym referring to Spear-shakers, now known as Shakespeare."

There are many who may disagree.

Ghislain

Awani
08-02-2012, 12:29 PM
...Bacon was an exceptional poet and wrote under the pseudonym referring to Spear-shakers, now known as Shakespeare.

Was he that good really? Isn't Bacon/Shakespear overrated? I used to think so but I have kind of changed my opinion since I read The Philosophers Stone by Colin Wilson. A very good book but can be hard to find.

:cool:

Krisztian
08-02-2012, 03:20 PM
You missed out a "supposedly" when you stated..."since Bacon was an exceptional poet and wrote under the pseudonym referring to Spear-shakers, now known as Shakespeare."There are many who may disagree.

Could be.

My mind changed towards seeing Bacon as the writer of the Shakespearean plays after I looked at his life: his friends and their personalities [show up in the plays, almost identical]; his particular travels and published works of Shakespeare coincide; phases in his life like romance, loss and grief, foreign travels, are themes in the plays, etc. He invented various ciphers, was disinterested in being known for the Shakespearean plays. I think that was a smart move.

He was part of a writer's group, kind of like a fraternity of sort, seen as the leader.

I looked at 3 or 4 Shakespearean plays, analyzed by Dawkins. He sure makes compelling arguments. I always was very involved in the Arts, and I greatly respect it! I do know that many would prefer to keep the 'statues quo' untouched, it's somewhat of an 'identity threat'; but I prefer evidence over what I may have been spoonfed before.

In any case, we're all entitled to our own conclusions.

solomon levi
08-06-2012, 07:12 PM
I was reading about Hephaistos and thought that if the G reflects a hammer and anvil,
it may point to Hephaistos as these are his tools. But then Hephaistos points to others,
like the star I mentioned being Phosphorus...

"Phosphorus (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros), a name meaning "Light-Bringer", is the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance. Φαοσφόρος (Phaosphoros) and Φαεσφόρος (Phaesphoros) are forms of the same name in some Greek dialects.
Another Greek name for the Morning Star is Ἑωσφόρος (Heōsphoros), which means "Dawn-Bringer". The form Eosphorus is sometimes met in English, as if from Ἠωσφόρος (Ēōsphoros), which is not actually found in Greek literature, but would be the form that Ἑωσφόρος would have in some dialects. As an adjective, the Greek word is applied in the sense of "light-bringing" to, for instance, the dawn, the god Dionysos, pine torches, the day; and in the sense of "torch-bearing" as an epithet of several god and goddesses, especially Hecate but also of Artemis/Diana and Hephaestus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eosphorus

Krisztian
08-06-2012, 11:59 PM
As an adjective, the Greek word is applied in the sense of "light-bringing" to, for instance, the dawn, the god Dionysos, pine torches, the day; and in the sense of "torch-bearing" as an epithet of several god and goddesses, especially Hecate but also of Artemis/Diana and Hephaestus."

That would be a connection I saw referring to Bacon's Spear-Shakers and all that it applies. Apollo, Pallas Athena (literally means, "Shaker of the spear"), St.Michael, St.George are all known traditionally as "shakers of the spear of light against the dragon of ignorance."

Bacon supposedly scripted the lineage of English Freemasonry, as well as, I use the word again, supposedly, pointing to a profound symbolism when penning the Shakespearean plays, meaning, the spear of pen bringing the light to ignorance.

It would seem there're some connections?

Andro
10-03-2016, 02:11 PM
Vega33, many thanks!

The quote above is just to exemplify the theory below :)

The French Alphabet contains 26 main letters, just like the English one. When assigning numerological values to the letters, every letter carries not only the numerical value of the 'first' count, but instead, we can continue counting and reassigning numbers to the letters in 'skips' of 26. Thus, A = 1 but also 27, 53, etc... Similarly, G is not only 7 but also 7+26 -> G = 33. I find this interesting in many areas.