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View Full Version : Life Extension Vis-à-Vis Incarnational Goals



Krisztian
08-09-2012, 03:32 AM
yes of course, life can be extended far beyond any idiot can believe :) the problem is if all people live much longer :) (basically because demented capitalism rules this fucked world).
for what reason you want this "magical recipe" ? for sell it ? for you ? theosophist say this can affect your karma, (a bit idiot, because what NOT affect your karma ???) :) are you karma millionaire??
if this is a bit serious, write me in private, maybe I are interested in a Joint-Venture. :)

a reveure
pneumatician.

I think you make excellent points.

In my understanding those that possess such knowledge of extending life beyond, say, 200 to 300 years, in their hands befalls such know-how, wisdom, for the purpose of completing various "assignments" they incarnated for. The transmutation side of the Lapis, for example, gives the person the material means (i.e., gold, finances) to also complete their work. This was the purpose for the Ancients, at least.

/

Another point to consider, most people would very likely struggle psychologically if they would endure the loss and grief of seeing their loved ones come and go; political systems rule and fall; Can you emotionally live without a "companion"? Can you at all trust anyone without this wisdom? etc., etc., etc.; not to mention the suspicions that provokes in others of living such long life. In other words, such person with such wisdom would have to relocate, periodically or fall victim to the jealousy and suspiciousness of humanity-at-large. I didn't even mention those among humanity who will pay and do whatever means necessary to have in their hands the Lapis, or some other life-extension liquid.

Brennus
08-09-2012, 08:52 AM
I think you make excellent points.

In my understanding those that possess such knowledge of extending life beyond, say, 200 to 300 years, in their hands befalls such know-how, wisdom, for the purpose of completing various "assignments" they incarnated for. The transmutation side of the Lapis, for example, gives the person the material means (i.e., gold, finances) to also complete their work. This was the purpose for the Ancients, at least.

/

Another point to consider, most people would very likely struggle psychologically if they would endure the loss and grief of seeing their loved ones come and go; political systems rule and fall; Can you emotionally live without a "companion"? Can you at all trust anyone without this wisdom? etc., etc., etc.; not to mention the suspicions that provokes in others of living such long life. In other words, such person with such wisdom would have to relocate, periodically or fall victim to the jealousy and suspiciousness of humanity-at-large. I didn't even mention those among humanity who will pay and do whatever means necessary to have in their hands the Lapis, or some other life-extension liquid.

I don't care about money knowledge to me is the most impottant thing to have! As for capitalism sooner that dies the better,IMO!
Regards
Brennus

Krisztian
08-09-2012, 02:55 PM
I don't care about money knowledge to me is the most impottant thing to have!

Yes, knowledge is important Brennus, I feel the same way.

My comment was more regarding why that, the Lapis for example, would come our way to extend our physical existence.

Andro
08-09-2012, 03:26 PM
...to extend our physical existence.

Personally, I would also categorize this as an addiction, a MAJOR one, making all the others pale in comparison...

Quoted below are the last lines from our much liked movie, 'The Wisdom of Crocodiles':

"When I was a boy,

I fell out of a tree.

But I managed just to grab a branch.

I hung there for a long time, terrified.

The silence...

Then the pain in my arms...

And the blood pounding in my ears.

And then, I fell.

I don't remember...

What happened

When I hit the ground.

All I can remember now...

Is the agony...

Of holding on...

And the wonderful ...

Wonderful feeling...

Of letting go."

Krisztian
08-09-2012, 09:24 PM
Personally, I would also categorize this as an addiction, a MAJOR one, making all the others pale in comparison....[/B]"

O come on, this is out of context, and it's also the topic of another Thread.

Please read carefully what I wrote. I was merely the mouth-piece for what the Lapis, for example, was for the Ancients, what they used it for. Fr. Albertus wrote about it, so have others. It has very little, if any, to do with addictions and "life-extension" as it is portrayed in social consciousness. It's about the tasks that some souls are faced with, the contracts they're going to fulfill.

Life extension, the need for such a thing, in Hollywood or elsewhere, is an addiction. Yes, no arguments against that from me.

Andro
08-09-2012, 09:35 PM
Sorry if I misinterpreted.


Life extension, the need for such a thing, in Hollywood or elsewhere, is an addiction. Yes, no arguments against that from me.

That's what I meant with my comment, more or less. But it also seems to apply to some genuine Adepts, who left the physical realm at a relatively 'young' age (not 'prolonging' their lives, knowing there is much more to it beyond the physical).

I am not a 'fan' of 'seeking' longevity in the physical (too many limitations :)), and it's also my experience that's it's a rather futile task, since our lifespans are already determined, whatever their length is.

Some traditions demonstrate the creation of the 'Body of Light' (by a Master) while still alive, and not only at the moment of death (Yoda style). This is definitely not the same as 'longevity' or 'life extension'.

In any case, it's impossible (by design) to die before completing one's purpose, even if that purpose is to experience cradle death.

Quality of life and maximizing one's physical experience (for as long as it lasts and in whatever area it's needed) is an entirely different thing...

pneumatician
08-09-2012, 11:53 PM
I think you make excellent points.

In my understanding those that possess such knowledge of extending life beyond, say, 200 to 300 years, in their hands befalls such know-how, wisdom, for the purpose of completing various "assignments" they incarnated for. The transmutation side of the Lapis, for example, gives the person the material means (i.e., gold, finances) to also complete their work. This was the purpose for the Ancients, at least.

completing various "assignments"...
ummm... this mean you believe in a mode or in other every person here are "programed" ? for "completing various "assignments"" ???

yes the ancients are people brainwashed fanatical ultracatolic, aand perfectly believe have some assignments to do... but are only fanatical religious nonsense. I, of course don't believe this...



Another point to consider, most people would very likely struggle psychologically if they would endure the loss and grief of seeing their loved ones come and go; political systems rule and fall; Can you emotionally live without a "companion"? Can you at all trust anyone without this wisdom? etc., etc., etc.; not to mention the suspicions that provokes in others of living such long life. In other words, such person with such wisdom would have to relocate, periodically or fall victim to the jealousy and suspiciousness of humanity-at-large. I didn't even mention those among humanity who will pay and do whatever means necessary to have in their hands the Lapis, or some other life-extension liquid.

yes, unless you are very lucky you are condemned to live alone forever mistrusting everyone and continually wandering, unless I am mistaken Hollandus write about their adventures escape from the authorities even dressed as a woman :)
yesterday I read a doc from helena blavatski which says that an occultist can not shake hands with anyone, no drink from a glass of other person,,, etc, etc... can you do this in a capitalist idiotic country ? :)

to be honest I find increasingly theosophist also a bit fanatical, manipulative and manipulated...

Krisztian
08-12-2012, 07:34 PM
completing various "assignments"...
ummm... this mean you believe in a mode or in other every person here are "programed" ? for "completing various "assignments"" ???

It's not a human thing that I'm referring to. "Programming" is a term more along the lines of conceptualizing something "business" from Wall Street, per say.

I mean carrying out soul contracts.


yes the ancients are people brainwashed fanatical ultracatolic, aand perfectly believe have some assignments to do... but are only fanatical religious nonsense. I, of course don't believe this...[/FONT][/SIZE]

I'm not speaking about religious ideologies.


to be honest I find increasingly theosophist also a bit fanatical, manipulative and manipulated...

Yes, everything tends to become fanatical once the purely human side gets involved. What I mean by that is, the neurotic hunger takes over, the survivalist attitude, so forth.

I have a large library of original theosophic manuscripts. I have memory of being part of the movement, at another time, in England. The original movement was pure. Over the years, like with seemingly everything, it has morphed. But it is what it is.

Take what fits. Put aside what doesn't.

Krisztian
08-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Not a big issue. Just sometimes it gets sour when postings are taken an entirely different way than intended, that's all.


In any case, it's impossible (by design) to die before completing one's purpose, even if that purpose is to experience cradle death.

My father and I both remember; we both have families elsewhere in Other Places as we speak. And we both agree that there're so many reincarnations because people don't stay on course, they get distracted, 'get hooked', so forth. The energetic level of the soul to remember has to be heightened and maintained to actually stay course. So, philosophically that seem-like a feel-good proposition, but in reality the experience shows that it's something like pressing the rewind button over and over and over and over again (on the VHS player) repeating the same experiences without distilling wisdom.

That's why the physical body weathers away. It only holds purity when the soul remains on track. That's why in terms of longevity, your physical body falls apart the farther you are from your 'calling'. If not, then the body pushes out the soul, and the person comes back again. The body only maintains it's integrity if the course remains. Disease helps to restart the button, and restart the recycle of being born again. If one were to stay on course entirely, there would only be one lifetime, one incarnation in one physical body.

P.s. I prefer not to "argue" about it anymore. So this is my last posting.

Andro
08-12-2012, 08:09 PM
P.s. I prefer not to "argue" about it anymore. So this is my last posting.

I am not 'arguing' either, just offering my own perspective(s) on the issue of longevity/incarnations/etc... We apparently have somewhat 'conflicting' views on those - no biggie at all :)

And since I don't personally adhere to 'right' or 'wrong' in an absolute sense, I'll simply quote (and poly-contextualize) your earlier post, for everyone's benefit (hopefully):


Take what fits. Put aside what doesn't.

:cool:

pneumatician
08-12-2012, 10:14 PM
It's not a human thing that I'm referring to. "Programming" is a term more along the lines of conceptualizing something "business" from Wall Street, per say.

I mean carrying out soul contracts..

oh! this "capitalism" point of view of you/your soul is very... ummm... well...

Axismundi000
08-16-2012, 01:10 AM
Goddard in Tower of Alchemy argues that longevity serves the purpose of allowing the person to complete a large body of spiritual work in one lifetime and that this is the main utility of Alchemical life extension. Arguably one aspect of this spiritual work would be having a 'mission from God' as the blue's brothers would say. The problem with Goddard's book is that it gives lots of meditations but (surprise, surprise) no lab technique to achieve the universal medicine that is advocated, as he puts it the white Eagle only. The idea I think is that if you complete all the stuff in his work the means of achieving the magnum opus will readily occur to the individual. My gut tells me to continue with the Franz Bardon stuff; whilst trying out practical alchemy stuff and building up my Lab, though the grail theme in Goddards book is pleasing to read.

Some people feel that longevity is not possible with Alchemy, only spiritual unfoldment. I disagree though I admit I have not achieved the Great Work. One day I Will.

Krisztian
08-16-2012, 01:51 AM
Goddard in Tower of Alchemy argues that longevity serves the purpose of allowing the person to complete a large body of spiritual work in one lifetime and that this is the main utility of Alchemical life extension. Arguably one aspect of this spiritual work would be having a 'mission from God' as the blue's brothers would say. The problem with Goddard's book is that it gives lots of meditations but (surprise, surprise) no lab technique to achieve the universal medicine that is advocated, as he puts it the white Eagle only. The idea I think is that if you complete all the stuff in his work the means of achieving the magnum opus will readily occur to the individual.

Yes, this was exactly my point I was making earlier. The tradition of alchemy as described by Dubuis, Fr. Albertus, Mária Szepes and others (their name alludes me right now), was meant to serve to complete something, a task, requiring longer period than the programming of the genetics. (My 'signature' quote from Paracelsus speaks to that.)

I find meditation essential. The calmer the inner-environment is, the louder the satellite receiver gets, namely, the spine cord with our brain.

And yes, you don't do it for vanity!

pneumatician
08-18-2012, 01:32 PM
after many messages practically nothing of value...

well read here the "elixir of life"

http://archive.org/details/fiveyearstheoso00meadgoog

but a importatn question nobody is asking... how ro determine/known your date of death ??? unless you known this date how can you say you've got lengthen your life?

this is not a philosophical quiz, this is a REAL quiz.

& much, much more!! :)

Krisztian
08-18-2012, 07:10 PM
after many messages practically nothing of value... well read here the "elixir of life" http://archive.org/details/fiveyearstheoso00meadgoog

That's my favorite, most cherished manuscript! I also posted it some time back, Five Years of Theosophy. That details good many points that relate to this Thread.

Krisztian
08-19-2012, 06:55 PM
but a importatn question nobody is asking... how ro determine/known your date of death ??? unless you known this date how can you say you've got lengthen your life? this is not a philosophical quiz, this is a REAL quiz.

Your position is only from a human perspective, theoretical. The statistics, time, age, calculations, etc., are the programming of a mainly masculine-driven humanoid. They have very little weight on incarnations. Those who live beyond the expected norm of humanity, say, 100 years, care very little about age or time. That doesn't occupy them. It's a natural unfoldment to live long.

The more you focus on such things, the more your consciousness gets lost. Those that live long are completely absorbed by the beauty and intrigue and exploration of their lives. That's why, partly, their body regenerates.

What is there to calculate in relation to the soul?

pneumatician
08-20-2012, 11:17 PM
dear Krisztian,

I think yoou have a hypnotic sense of reality. the "Elixir of Life" (EoL) from the 5 years of teo. is an (idiotic?) autobrainwashing, a contradiction because NOW you and I are death, more dense, trapped in our portable coffin (our body). therefore really you want to extend your penance (phisical life) with an EoL to live longer in a tomb ??? rewriting the arguments of 5 years... the text can be something like this:

go to a secluded and solitary place. start to recite mental mantras 24hours at day, inclusive if you are sleeping, untill your body die of starvation, (around 1 or 2 mo. drinking only water, or maybe never die :o) and when you let the body NOW YOU ARE ALIVE, aware and free from all the universe shit. if you follow this and in the time before you die not get the power, awareness... for live after your death in full conscience.. , you failed miserably as perhaps was not yet ready for it. or well, you can follow all the process in the 5 years of teo. and expend all your life in a "spiritual" cul-de-sac...

FOR FINALLY WHERE TO END ?

Krisztian
08-21-2012, 01:20 AM
I think yoou have a hypnotic sense of reality.

I have to admit, I do like your style.

Actually when I give lectures or workshops, throughout my life, I have been called hypnotic. That's quite funny you would use that word.

You know, it's not meant for everyone, to live longer than the current average life. Most people will get irritated, "triggered" by such talk, angry, laugh it off, or whatever else. But to live a good couple of century or more is normal. It's just that it hasn't been the main programming for people. That's why the reaction is often illogical coupled with antagonistic emotions. But that's alright.

lwowl
08-23-2012, 10:07 PM
When I read these posts I get the feeling that you folks are young people. When I was very young, 0 to 7, the world was total chaos at first. Awareness was a state of dreamtime chimeras. Then the first coherent images appeared before I could walk. I was a being living in Eternia space/time wise.

Then I evolved into Reasoning, and the Dreamtime receded and hierarchies of order began forming under the guidance of logic. I could not even conceive of being a big person, an adult. That was too far into the future for me to ponder.

I did ponder the Cosmos of ordered events prevailing upon my discerning senses through the years from age 8 to 13. At the onset I was drenched in alchemical revelation ignited by the backlit full color imagery in the stained glass windows of the mini-cathedral church I was sent to. It was a scale model of one of the Medieval cathedrals in France. That set my directions in life: my destiny.

When I reached middle age I realized those two people, me, died long ago. The first me died when the next one evolved. It was more of a palingenesis than death. Those two mees went through a physical transition and disappeared as I metamorphed from being a child to an adult. Sure the memories are a continuous thread connecting the many mees that I have been in this incarnation. Nonetheless, all of those earlier mees have gone down as does the sun when evening descends.

Through my life many mees have come and gone as I evolved into a “senior citizen.” We’re all pretty much the same evolving through many transitions, phases, in the continuing rebirth of the phoenix rising from your own ashes.

There is a saying out here in the West: “Growin’ old ain’t for sissies.” We will all arrive at our next death as we move along in the Universe. We will all arrive at our next birth as we move along through the Universe. Eventually it will become a continuous flow of conscious awareness from Realtime to Dreamtime.

Uncertainty is the principle that drives the Universal dance between Chaos and Cosmos. Schrodinger’s Cat proved that we are both dead and alive each and every moment. The observer, you, chooses the outcome through awareness.

It’s the big game we play with ourselves: fold and reboot.

This is the way I choose to live it.

lwowl

Krisztian
08-25-2012, 07:10 PM
When I read these posts I get the feeling that you folks are young people. When I was very young, 0 to 7, the world was total chaos at first. Awareness was a state of dreamtime chimeras. Then the first coherent images appeared before I could walk. I was a being living in Eternia space/time wise.

When I was "young", I recalled memories of other places, identities, etc. I knew how to carry out skills that I shouldn't have known. That puzzled some people, but the love in relationships overrides all fear.

I'm happy to hear about your experiences.


Then I evolved into Reasoning, and the Dreamtime receded and hierarchies of order began forming under the guidance of logic. I could not even conceive of being a big person, an adult. That was too far into the future for me to ponder.

I did ponder the Cosmos of ordered events prevailing upon my discerning senses through the years from age 8 to 13. At the onset I was drenched in alchemical revelation ignited by the backlit full color imagery in the stained glass windows of the mini-cathedral church I was sent to. It was a scale model of one of the Medieval cathedrals in France. That set my directions in life: my destiny.

When I reached middle age I realized those two people, me, died long ago. The first me died when the next one evolved. It was more of a palingenesis than death. Those two mees went through a physical transition and disappeared as I metamorphed from being a child to an adult. Sure the memories are a continuous thread connecting the many mees that I have been in this incarnation. Nonetheless, all of those earlier mees have gone down as does the sun when evening descends.

Through my life many mees have come and gone as I evolved into a “senior citizen.” We’re all pretty much the same evolving through many transitions, phases, in the continuing rebirth of the phoenix rising from your own ashes.

There is a saying out here in the West: “Growin’ old ain’t for sissies.” We will all arrive at our next death as we move along in the Universe. We will all arrive at our next birth as we move along through the Universe. Eventually it will become a continuous flow of conscious awareness from Realtime to Dreamtime.

Uncertainty is the principle that drives the Universal dance between Chaos and Cosmos. Schrodinger’s Cat proved that we are both dead and alive each and every moment. The observer, you, chooses the outcome through awareness.It’s the big game we play with ourselves: fold and reboot.This is the way I choose to live it.lwowl

No disagreements from me on your points.

III
11-13-2012, 01:27 AM
What is really being discussed here? Fear of death? In early May of 1974 I told my wonderful young wife (we were both 25 or 26) that I was going to die young. A week later, while we were exercising in the empty livingroom of our new apt 2 guys I had never seen before knocked on the door and shot and killed both of us. We both were suddenly aware on the floor 5 minutes before we were shot and the first thing my wife said was "Don't open the door". Every time I die I find myself back here at various ages, not always coincident with when I left. E. J. Gold calls this recurrance. Peter Ouspensky also wrote about recurrance. Some might say that Alchemy then is the art of changing ourselves consciously using recurrance.

I've had these things happen over and over, sometimes with somebody else, sometimes not. My two daughters were in the car with both grandparents when one of them drove through a red light he didn't see. My daughters both remember it, the grandparents don't. Suddenly the car isn't getting hit by a greenlight car; instead it is sitting still back at the light and everybody was fine. I bring it up in a group and there are virtually always others with similar "too strange to remember" experiences. I had a discontinuity while I was out of town one time. I got back to Salt Lake. I went to the parking lot coordinates I wrote on my parking tag receipt. My car wasn't there, exactly where I had remembered parking it right next to the shuttle stop. Finally I got back to the parking office and they had recorded my car license and took me right to it. It had the full 18 inches of undisturbed snow that was falling the day I left it, half a mile away in a lot I had never used and their records show it was there the entire time. There was no way one set of coordinates could have been accidently substituted. They were in no way similar.

So how long has this life been? I've died in a depressingly huge number of car wrecks of my own causing. I had 6 rr 7 NDEs one terrible sick night. All of these are NDE since I am here to talk about it despite remembering dying by crashing into rocks on a ski hill and a lot of other violent ways, not just quiet sick in bed expereinces.

So my question is WHERE IS HERE? Am I in a coma somewhere? Are we all in a coma together? Are these bardo dreams and I'm dreaming all of you or we are all dreaming together or are all of you just an echo of my own thoughts?

Or am I an Alchemist and this world while not exactly what we were raised to believe it is, isn't what we think and is more like a holodeck where recurrance with another "life" is automatic, but remembering is not automatic. And via Alchemy we can evolve ourselves within the system and learn to remember, once there is something to remember, change.


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