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alfdib
08-14-2012, 09:55 PM
what's the best equipment ( cheap please) to mantain for long time ( 1-2 weeks) glassware with our alchemicals liquid?
thanks

Andro
08-14-2012, 10:19 PM
what's the best equipment ( cheap please) to mantain for long time ( 1-2 weeks) glassware with our alchemicals liquid?

My best suggestion would be a Vapor Bath with a teapot candle. The Vapor bath should be covered so the water can circulate, and the candles regularly replaced (they're really cheap).

Teapot candle:

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0157/1908/products/candle_large.jpeg?1448

alfdib
08-14-2012, 10:47 PM
yes I thought about that.
The problem is that you need to be always at home ( and probably even not to sleep) to change the candle...
a candle like that should last no more then 2 hours...
So pratically this idea is not good ( at least for me).

Andro
08-14-2012, 11:37 PM
Yes I thought about that.
The problem is that you need to be always at home ( and probably even not to sleep) to change the candle...
a candle like that should last no more then 2 hours...
So practically this idea is not good ( at least for me).

Well... you wanted cheap... and cheap always comes at a price :)

Maybe you can find candles that last longer and devise a method so the distance between the candle and the water vessel remains constant.

Or - if you don't live alone - maybe ask someone else to be the 'Fire-Keeper' when you leave home...

Can you afford a cheap gas burner that runs low?

Susu
08-15-2012, 04:54 AM
It may not be as constant but since I live in a hot climate (Florida, USA) what I do is leave it in the trunk of my car. It gets pretty warm in there but nothing over 40 degrees C. Put a thermometer in there also to check the heat just in case. Also with my driving it also helps shake it too. lol If I wanted to in the late afternoon I would take it and bring it inside and place it on a cheap electric range til morning. I usually do without the range.

I hear placing it on a water heater helps too but I live in an apartment so that is a no go for me.

Salazius
08-15-2012, 05:55 PM
If you use the vapor bath, beware evaporation process. Because the less water you have in the bath, the hotter it will be.
So put from time to time, some water in it.

Tea pot candles can last 8 hours in the big format. This is what I used for three months in a row. I had a fire keeper also.
I also used a kitchen gaz burner, and now I'm trying hot plate.

I have monoxide of carbon and smoke alarms and an extinguisher at hand too.

Ilos
08-15-2012, 06:35 PM
Im thinking for wintter of making the polystyrene box with 10 watt bulb
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8186/circulationbox.jpg
By ilos (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ilos) at 2012-08-15

Krisztian
08-16-2012, 01:27 AM
Yes, the moment I tested one of those styrofoam incubators, I ended up making another two for different projects. It just works well!

I work it with 3 watt or, 8 watt bulbs. Or, use Seedling Heating Mat, cover with earth about 2 inches thick.

Placed bulb in a Woods Clamp Lamp with 2 meter cord.

Add aluminum foil inside; why not, I even used 100% recycled material.

Add PTFE Teflon Seal Tape.

And I poked a tiny hole on top of the styrofoam incubator to insert digital cooking thermostat, around $3.99 (USD), it's usually made in China. I guess, these days, what isn't?

I can maintain without much fluctuation 40 Celsius for months on end, easily. And the 3 watt bulb doesn't cost much in electricity bills.

Ghislain
08-16-2012, 02:25 AM
I use heat mats (http://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/reptile-supplies/reptile-heating-equipment-414/heat-mats-450/habistat-heat-mat-26228.html?ref=shopping&utm_source=product-search&utm_medium=googlebase&gclid=CKe7t4mL67ECFagmtAodUSAALg) for reptile houses for low temps
and slow cooker (http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=cheap+slow+cooker&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=920&wrapid=tlif134508374556110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5450219846911928058&sa=X&ei=aVksUI-sEonTtAa9-IGIAw&ved=0CHoQ8gIwBA) for higher temps

Wrap the flask with the mat and then wrap a towel around that.

A mat will cost between 15 to 20

Fill slow cooker with fine sand and bury flask into it.

You can get really cheap slow cookers around 15 to 20

Check with supplier what temps the equipment puts out.

Get a thermometer to keep a check on the temp or as Krisztian said above
a cheap thermostat.


Ghislain

Edit: with hindsight I guess my suggestion isn't that cheap :(

alfdib
08-16-2012, 10:39 PM
Krisztian Ilos,
yes that is the way i think works better in term of duration and cost ( and maintenance) indeed... and I need sometimes to leave the upper part of the flask outside like in this project.
The problem is how to find a polystirene box that has this exact shape... do you know how to get it?
Then we could cohibent internally with aluminium and even make out a little hole for the thermometer.

alfdib
08-16-2012, 10:46 PM
Ghislain,
the Slow Cooker is also a great idea but all the ones I've found ( here in Italy), they have a timer (and always without possibility to exclude it)) and hence at the end of the time they stop to work, so I cannot use for continuum "cooking" of days or weeks...
What temperatures can you set up with the slow cooker? 40C is not to low for them?
Thanks

Axismundi000
08-16-2012, 11:59 PM
I use a basic hotplate from cole parmer, temperature is graduated in 5 centigrade blocks, 5 centigrade to 540 cent. I have had it running continously at 50centigrade for over 2 months. Maybe at higher temps it would be problematic over a long period but for fermentation type temps its fine.

The model I have is:

Thermo Scientific Cimarec 7x7 Ceramic Hotplate, its a basic kit item so there are loads like this of different manufacture, others are probably just as good but this one has served me well so far.

The essential point: no timer
it just 'keeps on trukin'

There is a saying about Alchemy that I read recently. something like you need gold to make gold. My point here is that lab alchemy is definately a middle-class enterprise, one could say a petit-bourgiouse pursuit, you need a lab, you need to gradualy build up the gear if you are realistic about it it costs plenty bucks.

Krisztian
08-17-2012, 02:17 AM
Krisztian Ilos,
yes that is the way i think works better in term of duration and cost ( and maintenance) indeed... and I need sometimes to leave the upper part of the flask outside like in this project.
The problem is how to find a polystirene box that has this exact shape... do you know how to get it?
Then we could cohibent internally with aluminium and even make out a little hole for the thermometer.

I walked into a store called Canadian Tire, here in Canada. They're sold for $5.99 to $8.99 (CDN) depending on size.

Believe me, I was also quite surprised at how inexpensive one of these styrofoam boxes can be as incubators. They cost little to run. And over time, like I have, you can make it quite good. I pierced the thermostat into a wooden cork, which stabilizes the long thermostat.

The reason I suggest aluminum foil inside the styrofoam (like wallpaper on the wall) because you wouldn't need more than 8 watts bulb to heat it.

I just noticed you live in Italy. I suggest you look at eBay, in the worst cases purchase 'styrofoam sheets', and glue them together to the shape you desire. Also seal with PTFE Teflon Tape the edges.

I purchased from Italy a tube amplifier from Mastersound in the past; and they came in robust styrofoam package. Why don't you look into audio equipment, refrigerator, etc., packaging?

Ghislain
08-17-2012, 02:44 AM
alfdib

I have to say I like Krisztians idea as it sounds so cheap and simple.

The slow cooker I have does not include a timer...slow cookers are made to cook slowly all day.

If you look at the one in the link I placed it too is without a timer.

I think the setting I use on the SC gives about 110 Fahrenheit which is about 43 Celsius.

Ghislain

zoas23
08-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Aquarium heaters are quite cheap. Everyone I know is using them.

Also, another good option is to build your own incubator. I am doing it next month, but I don't know if that's possible in your area.
I am sending you a link in Spanish (you can use google translate to understand it):
http://www.incubadorashorus.com.ar/incubadoras-kit-incubacion_.html

They sell all the electric parts of the incubator for a very cheap price:
60 eggs.- U$S 61.-
120 eggs -U$S 66.-
250 eggs -U$S 78.-
400 eggs -U$S 112.

The "eggs" are chicken eggs and that's how you can calculate the size you need (the size of the box that you have to build by yourself).

The "kit" or "set" includes:
-a resistence (the heater)
-An electronic thermomether
-a temperature selector.

The incubators are quite expensive (this same company is selling them from U$S 650 dollars) and not really the best option if you buy the "real" ones (because they are designed for eggs, not for flasks)... and the ones designed for chemistry labs... the are by far more expensive.

But building your own incubator is kinda cheap doing it this way (the aquarium pump and the aleternative incubators are even cheaper, of course, but this other way can be somehow more comfortable and accurate in the long term)... and, of course, it becomes possible to change the design and make it more suitable for flasks instead of eggs.

Maybe you can find a local company that sells a similar product (or maybe you can contact a company that buils incubators for eggs and ask them if they are willing to sell you the electric parts only, without the "box").

This one is certainly not the CHEAPEST alternative, but I think it does have a good balance between the $$$ that it costs and the results it has.

(oh... these kits are designed to let you select any temperature between 32 and 45... and the variation of temperature is only +/- 0.1C.)

And, yes, this company pays me to promote their products and give me 30% of the money of each one of their sales*




* LOL... :P just a stupid joke, but I really think it is a nice alternative for those who can spend a bit more $$$ and have a "real" incubator without spending the HUGE amount of money that a "real" one costs.

True Initiate
08-17-2012, 03:18 PM
Great thread!

I was thinking how to pass through all grades of fire without loosing arm and a led in energy costs. The possible answer is to use vaccuum and increase of preassure and this increases the temp in a flask. I have seen Hg destilled at 125C with this method!

thoth
08-19-2012, 11:10 PM
Im thinking for wintter of making the polystyrene box with 10 watt bulb
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8186/circulationbox.jpg
By ilos (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/ilos) at 2012-08-15

Hi, I have used a DIY incubator for the last 2 years, with different wattage bulbs for required temp, using a picnic cooler box. One thing to watch is not to have any flasks directly above bulb as sooner or later you are bound to spill some liquid.

I also use a standalone ELCB plug, so if there is an electrical short due to spills you have a better chance?
Also of use could be a heating belt as used in home brew stores, to ferment beer at 20+ degrees
http://www.homebrew.ie/proddetail.php?prod=393

pneumatician
08-20-2012, 02:11 AM
http://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Novatronic-Heater

the fish tank version only to 24-28 degrees, otherwise would get boiled fish

:cool:

alfdib
08-23-2012, 10:39 PM
http://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/ProductGrp/Novatronic-Heater

the fish tank version only to 24-28 degrees, otherwise would get boiled fish

:cool:
hei that is great!
I was looking for something like that!
I've found the aquarium warmer, that's under the same idea but their maximum temperature is 36C so i dropped that idea.
now you turn it on again!
and mostly: it eats only 150W for 15 litres...

vega33
08-24-2012, 04:45 AM
what's the best equipment ( cheap please) to mantain for long time ( 1-2 weeks) glassware with our alchemicals liquid?
thanks

Great thread so far, lots of good ideas. Thought I'd throw out a few extra.

In alchemy (as opposed to spagyrics) the vessel and the matter are inter-related, as someone would say: 2 likes in an unlike condition. Think of the human body or the chicken incubator, the egg is a single philosophical entity but it is made up of multiple parts. Also to take into consideration would be the ability for the matter to "breathe" or de-gas, which is important if liquid is to become solid. Of course, if you're just following recipe for a plant stone or something, its somewhat different. Living things or generating things are inter-dependent on their environment, so you want to give them exactly the right heat to perpetuate their fermentation but not too much.

pneumatician
08-24-2012, 06:28 PM
hei that is great!
I was looking for something like that!
I've found the aquarium warmer, that's under the same idea but their maximum temperature is 36C so i dropped that idea.
now you turn it on again!
and mostly: it eats only 150W for 15 litres...

I use this for developing films, inclusive process E-6 (color slides) where temp is important and work wonderfully for the price. Also work for months whitout problems for balneums... chem versions of this thermostatic control are big and the most cheap is around 600 euros...
:o

SolX
11-13-2012, 11:54 PM
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q763/cublasolx/bth_part2begining003example.jpg

i have been useing this non stop from May of this year. it qualifies for the temps you desire. can be found in a hobby store or a general store. it is classified as a "coffee cup warmer" or a "wax melter". i bought 4 of them just in case for 6 dollars US each. i never had to replace the first one yet.

Solx
terran and proud of it

Illen A. Cluf
11-14-2012, 12:29 AM
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q763/cublasolx/bth_part2begining003example.jpg

i have been useing this non stop from May of this year. it qualifies for the temps you desire. can be found in a hobby store or a general store. it is classified as a "coffee cup warmer" or a "wax melter". i bought 4 of them just in case for 6 dollars US each. i never had to replace the first one yet.

Solx
terran and proud of it

They must have improved them. I used one steadily for a couple of days and it burned out. Now I use one of those small heat blankets.

Ezalor
12-02-2012, 01:58 AM
Now, with a basic electrical knowledge and hand dexterity, you can build "premium" incubators easily.

Body: Get a box of any material you like. Precisely cover teh inside of it with polystyrene panels, or get cooler box, which in fact is actually nothing but a polystyrene filled box. Insert a regular lab thermometer through a hole.

Heating: Use either the bulb or any heater unit of those mentioned, point is, get one which produces at least the HIGHEST temperature you would EVER need for incubation. One reasn tho while I wouldn't suggest the bulb: it may happen that you need to incubate a light-sensitive material.

Now, for the rest if it, I would suggest you get something that runs on low voltage Direct Current (that is, powered by a transformator/power adapter) because the electrical work will be much easier, and also, the whole thing will be much safer in all ways.


How to make it premium:

Variable temperature:
In short, you want to manually change the voltage. The lover the voltage, the lower the heat produced. So you will use a so called "potentiometer" or variable resistor to make a voltage divider. You should place a big button on the axis of the pot-meter, and fix it, preferably inside the box so only the button is outside. Now, you draw an indicator line on the surface next to the button.

Setting the predefined temperatures:
You need to measure the temperature of the heating element directly, best with an electrical thermometer (actually, best with a thermographic camera but that's pretty expensive. :P ) You turn it on, and set it on max. You wait until the thermometer stops at max temperature, then you turn the pot-meter a bit and wait until the temperature adjusts. You repeat this until you reach exactly the desired temp, then, you mark on the wheel/button where the indicator line points, and note the temp on the wheel. repeat with all other temperatures you will need in the future. Just always wait until the heating element cools down to the lower temp, and the temperature stops falling. So, now all you have to do is turning the wheel to the given mark to have your 30, 40 or whatever degrees temperature. Of course the inserted thermometer always serves as a check to make sure it's OK.

Detecting heat failure:
So you want to know if your heating element dies, right? Most heating elements when they burn out, they stop conducting electricity (actual heating wire melts, like in bulbs). So, if you have a small outside light source in-line with it, it goes dark when it doesn't work. Not good enough? Replace the light with an electromagnetic switch or insert a transistor, so you can power an active electrical part such as an electric bell if the flow of electricity stops. This is pretty simple and cheap still.


You can of course always develop this further (Like you could have inner temperature detected with a temperature sensitive resistor, which is tuned with the temp regulator pot-meter, and have that bell sound if the temp is either too low or too high. ;) ) And here I only outlined the concepts, you will have to do your research and planning about the exact circuit. But the point is, for a pretty small cost you can have an incubator with variable temperature and a basic failure detection alarm.

LostGnosticOccultum
12-02-2012, 02:20 AM
Wow great post Ezalor! I'm gonna give this a try : D

GOD Bless, LGO

Ezalor
12-02-2012, 02:34 AM
Just make sure you do the proper research and calculation before actually assembling it. While low voltage can't kill you, you can pretty much ruin your parts, or even get yourself burnt with overheat. For example, resistors generally heat (The heating tubes are actually big resistors) so don't over stress them.

And only consider working with high voltage if you have a degree in that field or equivalent knowledge.

LostGnosticOccultum
12-02-2012, 05:22 AM
I don't have a degree but have taken some electrical engineering classes because I was interested in the topic at the time lol