PDA

View Full Version : Plight of the Falun Gong Practitioners in China



Ghislain
08-15-2012, 03:04 PM
I would just like to bring to peoples attention more of the human rights abuses in China.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LPksYo2WUQ

Falun Gong or Falun Dafa (literally means "Dharma Wheel Practice") is a spiritual discipline first introduced
in China in 1992 through public lectures by its founder, Li Hongzhi. It combines the practice of meditation
and slow-moving qigong exercises with a moral philosophy. Falun Gong emphasises morality and the
cultivation of virtue in its central tenets of Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance (Chinese: 真、善、
忍), and identifies as a qigong practice of the Buddhist school, though its teachings also incorporate elements
drawn from Taoist traditions. Through moral rectitude and the practice of meditation, practitioners of
Falun Gong aspire to better health and, ultimately, spiritual enlightenment.

Falun Gong emerged at the end of China's "qigong boom", a period which saw the proliferation of similar
practices of meditation, slow-moving exercises and regulated breathing. It differs from other qigong
schools in its absence of fees or formal membership, lack of daily rituals of worship, its greater emphasis
on morality, and the theological nature of its teachings. Western academics have described Falun Gong as
a qigong discipline, a "spiritual movement" based on the teachings of its founder, a "cultivation system" in
the tradition of Chinese antiquity, and sometimes a religion or new religious movement.


Although the practice initially enjoyed considerable support from Chinese officialdom, by the mid- to late-
1990s, the Communist Party and public security organs increasingly viewed Falun Gong as a potential threat
due to its size, independence from the state, and spiritual teachings. By 1999, some estimates placed the
number of Falun Gong adherents in the tens of millions.

On July 20, 1999, after three years of mounting tensions between the group and the government, the
Communist Party of China (CPC) leadership initiated a nationwide crackdown and multifaceted propaganda
campaign intended to eradicate the practice. In October 1999 it declared Falun Gong a "heretical
organization" and began banning Internet access to websites that mention Falun Gong. Human
rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of human rights
abuses; hundreds of thousands are believed to have been imprisoned extrajudicially, and practitioners in
detention are subject to forced labor, psychiatric abuse, torture, and other coercive methods of thought
reform at the hands of Chinese authorities. In the years since the suppression campaign
began, Falun Gong adherents have emerged as a prominent voice in the Chinese dissident community,
advocating for greater human rights and an end to Communist Party rule.

Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vx5afAtGAY

Can anyone believe that our governments still hold diplomatic relations with the government that
instigate these atrocities?

Ghislain

ghetto alchemist
08-15-2012, 04:25 PM
I can believe it.

In diplomacy there is a strong idea not to interfere in domestic policy of other nations.
If the persecution of Falun Gong is so bad, then the Chinese people themselves should fix it.
They don't think it needs fixing, so what right does an outsider have to do the same.

If you care about human rights then look at your own country first.
There are many people serving time in UK prisons for possession of small amounts of cannabis.
Need I point out that cannabis is a safe and natural substance.
I consider that a gross denial of human rights.

What do you propose we do about that?

G Alchemist

theFool
08-15-2012, 06:58 PM
If too many people are doing a practice that leads to self-realization, freedom and empowerment of the individual, then nations and governments become weak. So, if you want to have a strong government you have to restrict this information from the public so that there is only one strong ruler (or an elite) who can do as they wish. In case that this information leaks out, the ruler will lose his advantage. This will lead to a collapse of government and into anarchy, which can be also a bad thing if it takes the form of chaos. China is trying to have a strong nation, so oppression of individuality is necessary.

The opposite happens in western societies. Our societies disintegrate now because the average individual is "waking up" to himself, turning his back to government authority. This has ups and downs of course too. For example your life and property will be in constant danger without a strong government.

Anyway, I would like to add that this situation in China has affected also the Taoist monasteries. Unfortunately, monasteries that were open continuously for many hundreds years are now closing. The positive side of this prosecution is that many practitioners migrate to the west and share openly their close guarded secrets in the fear that they will be lost.

We can't do anything about that. When the Tao moves, we must adapt, not to oppose.

Orbital
08-15-2012, 11:59 PM
What's more... I recently read a newspaper article that suggested that Neil Hayward (the British national recently killed surrounding the recent murder trial scandal in China) had information on Bo Xilai and his wife Gu Kailai regarding their underworld dealings especially pertaining to the trafficking of human corpses. Supposedly the province that Bo Xilai was mayor of had alot of Falun Gong members... These people who practiced Falun Gong were massacred all over China and later their body parts were sold on the black market. Bo Xilai and his wife had Neil put down because he was going to release this information, which would have cost them lots of money... Bo, being mayor of his province was collecting hansomely from the corpse trade. Of course there's alot more to what's going on then the public will know about, but one can draw some pretty hefty conclusions on how corrupt the system is in China.

I very much agree with what you say TheFool. The word government itself means to control the mind. A good government wouldnt be doing it's job if it allowed a majority of it's population to actually think intelligently for itself... especially in a spiritual way...

Ghislain
08-16-2012, 12:20 AM
ghetto alchemist

Do you actually know of anyone at all in prison in the UK for possesion of a small amount of cananbis?

The most you get in the UK for possesion is a slap on the wrist...

Perahps if you were a dealer you may get a small custodial sentence and I have to agree with you
that this is a form of oppression, but....


Can you really compare someone serving a few days in jail to someone having their organs harvested?


I have to ask you how far you would go to try and fix your own problem if the people you are trying to go
up against use their/your armed forces against you? If they are going to kill you and your family? If they are
going to use every propaganda technique they have at their disposal to brainwash the ignorant?

TF I don't believe in Nationalism.

This is one ball we live on and in this day and age and at our level of evolution we should be able to live in
peace with freedom without borders and solve our issues in a peaceful manner without dictatorial oppression.
To keep turning our blinkered eyes and our defended ears to the plight of the oppressed is going to leave us
exactly where we are now...or further back.

It is time we moved forward and embraced our similarities.

The Chinese and all in the world IMO are my brothers and sisters and I don't like to see my brothers and
sisters abused or to see other brothers and sisters ignore the fact that this abuse is going on around them.

To adapt is to oppose and we are the Tao.

Ghislain

crestind
08-18-2012, 03:32 AM
It is worth pointing out that Falun Gong is a corruption of true qigong.

Orbital
08-18-2012, 06:34 AM
It is worth pointing out that Falun Gong is a corruption of true qigong.

No it's not, that was an ignorant statement.

Andro
08-18-2012, 06:47 AM
It is worth pointing out that Falun Gong is a corruption of true qigong.

No it's not, that was an ignorant statement.

Crestind and Orbital,

Would you mind sharing the facts/knowledge/insight behind those comments?

Orbital
08-18-2012, 07:10 AM
Crestind and Orbital,

Would you mind sharing the facts/knowledge/insight behind those comments?

My apologies. Well, qigong is translated roughly to energy work and falun gong is translated to dharma wheel practice or dharma wheel work. So by definition they are different. It's like comparing apples and oranges and saying an apple is a corruption of a true orange, when an apple wasn't designed to be exactly like a true orange to begin with. Sure there may be some similarites, but they are different.

In Chinese energy practices and martial arts there are hundreds if not thousands of variations of all kinds of stuff. Shaolin kung fu, wing chun, qigong, tai chi... etc. Through the Cultural Revolution one of the main goals of the government was to standardize these forms. Some may argue this is good, and some may say this is bad. I'm on the side of freedom of expression. So with that said, I'd like to ask Crestind, what may I ask is true qigong?

Ghislain
08-18-2012, 08:24 AM
To clarify some points on Falun Gong; from the original post...


Western academics have described Falun Gong as a qigong discipline, a "spiritual movement" based
on the teachings of its founder, a "cultivation system" in the tradition of Chinese antiquity, and
sometimes a religion or new religious movement.
Most spiritual movements or “religions” are a corruption of some earlier path or proposition.

To say “Falun Gong is a corruption of true qigong” is like saying helium is a corruption of hydrogen,
but hydrogen and helium are what they are.

Thus to conclude I have to agree with Crestind’s statement, but I have to ask one of my own, which
is “why is it worth pointing out?”

Go to this link on Wikipedia “List of Christian denominations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations)”

Would I be correct in pointing out that all in that list are corruptions of Christianity?

And would it be “worth” pointing out?


Ghislain

N.B.

I started this thread to draw attention to the abuses of human rights not whether the people being
abused were following a true religion.

IMO people could be worshipping Rupert Bear and if that is what they choose to do then it should be
their right to do so as long as they are not trying to force their beliefs on others; in this case that is
exactly what the Chinese Government are trying to do.

Ghislain
08-18-2012, 08:55 AM
in this case that is exactly what the Chinese Government are trying to do.

I don't mean they are trying to worship Rupert Bear ;)

Ghislain

Orbital
08-18-2012, 04:37 PM
"Would I be correct in pointing out that all in that list are corruptions of Christianity?"

What is true Christianity?

If it's anything like Rupert Bearianity then sign me up! :)

crestind
08-20-2012, 10:28 PM
The Bible in its current form is the result of what is essentially a game of telephone. Continually rewritten over the years, getting mistranslated. Every mistranslation is effectively a corruption of the original work. Falun Gong lures people in by copying the teachings of other qigong techniques, and adds in a healthy dose of nonsense. It's a bait and switch technique, and Falun Gong is basically a cult like Scientology. Not surprisingly, it is funded by the NED, an arm of the CIA. Not many people are aware of this because they only know about the "front" used to lure people in, that is, the hippie-esque qigong teachings of love and peace.

http://www.modernmysteries.tv/0-7013-is-the-cia-behind-falun-gong.html
This sums it up quite effectively.

Ghislain
08-21-2012, 07:14 AM
To reply to your post Cestind I must first echo my earlier statement,

"I started this thread to draw attention to the abuses of human rights not whether the people being
abused were following a true religion."

In the Wikipedia article of post 1 it states that, “Falun Gong combines the practice of meditation
and slow-moving “qigong” exercises with a moral philosophy.”

Which, out of: meditation, slow-moving “qigong” exercises and moral philosophy, do you find to be
subversive.

I do agree that there are those that are clever at manipulation and I could not deny the possibility
that Falun Gong could be some subversive plot to undermine the Chinese dictatorship, however if
one can undermine a dictatorship with morality then perhaps that dictatorship needs to be
undermined.

To look at this from another angle...

China is one of the fastest growing economies in the world. It is predicted to be the largest
controlling economy by 2040. They have in place an amazing education system, work ethic and
technology that surpasses that of the west.

If the article on the Modern Mysteries site were true then would it not be better for the dictatorial
controlled press to release that truth instead of accusing those who practice Falun Gong as being
insane and such...I am sure the Chinese also have their national pride and would cease the practice
themselves if the story held any water.

I wonder how the readers of this post would feel if their brother or sister, mother or father were
beaten and tortured then cast into prison for such a trivial and passive pursuit and to finally find out
they have been murdered and their body parts sold to the highest bidder?

I think that China is a wonderfully diverse country which is having it’s day, but it seems to be led by a
group of tyrants whose doctrine seems to be “it’s my way or the highway” and woe betide anyone
who disagrees.

Then I have to say I have no idea what it is like to try and keep order in a country with a population
in excess of 1.3 billion, but one thing I am sure of it is not by torture, imprisonment and murder.
...and then there is the possibility that the participants of this brainwashing subversive activity want
others to be brainwashed so as to unite as one in peace...wouldn’t be such a bad thing would it?


Ghislain

crestind
08-22-2012, 02:53 PM
Well obviously torture is not good, but overthrowing foreign governments through front organizations would seem to interfere with free will and self determination for the citizens of that country, which is equally bad.

zoas23
08-25-2012, 04:51 AM
I was going to post:

This is my country:

http://www.rps.psu.edu/probing/graphics/earth2.jpg


But then I realized that the post was stupid...


This is my country:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/01/05/milkyway.article.jpg

BTW: I am the president of my country... actually, all the citizens of my country are the president.

ghetto alchemist
08-25-2012, 08:28 PM
I do agree that there are those that are clever at manipulation and I could not deny the possibility
that Falun Gong could be some subversive plot to undermine the Chinese dictatorship, however if
one can undermine a dictatorship with morality then perhaps that dictatorship needs to be
undermined.


The Falun Gong in fact were plotting to interfere with the government in the very last days that they were still legal, and that is in fact the very reason that they were outlawed and remain persecuted to this day.
It is only their political aspirations that have gotten them into trouble.

BUT..... the chinese government is NOT a dictatorship.

I live in Australia, a so called democracy, and we have 2 major political parties that compete with each other every 4 years to form government. Once a government is formed they do whatever they like until the next election.

The chinese system has only one political party which is able to form government. The communist party formed the government and gets to do whatever they like indefinately.

The difference is minor to say the very least.

Ghislain
08-25-2012, 09:38 PM
The chinese system has only one political party which is able to form government. The communist party formed the government and gets to do whatever they like indefinately.

The difference is minor to say the very least.

So torture, murder and the harvesting of organs of ones own people is a minor difference to what you have in Australia GA?

After the 4 years of your government might there be a possibility for you to get elected?

I can only repeat the question I asked in my last post...

I wonder how you would feel if your brother or sister, mother or father were
beaten and tortured then cast into prison for such a trivial and passive pursuit and to finally find out
they have been murdered and their body parts sold to the highest bidder?

Remember Tiananmen Square?

Ghislain

Edit: I have to say again I think China is a wonderful country but it is ruled by countries minus orie.

Ghislain
08-25-2012, 09:48 PM
Oh I forgot to include in the post above...

If your government is so bad GA do something about it...they are not mudering the population of Oz...yet

At least some people in China are making a stand and they know what their government is capable of.

?

Ghislain

Ezalor
08-31-2012, 04:31 PM
It is a great shame that such a country as China, which has so much to share, and such an incredible history and cultural heritage fallen under a political dictatorship. There are many more crimes this regime committed, including the genocide of Tibetans, and much more...

But china makes electronics. We need electronics. And we need it cheap. A poor Chinese 12 year old factory-kid on the verge of dying of starvation works for cheap.

And naturally, having a cheap toaster in my well-furnished kitchen, and a cheap TV, and a cheap DVD player all for my convenience is MUCH important than the lives of some million people! Who cares for them anyway?

So simple... until the majority of humanity is made a selfish, blind, careerist slave, nothing will change. China is far away, we can't see the blood and hear the cries. So we can close our eyes, and forget them. If even a fragment of the injustice done there would occur in our great, civilized world, of course we would cry for justice to be done.

In other words, sadly no one cares what is going on in the courtyard of others, while his own is nice and calm. So... how to solve this? Well, zoas23 already pointed out the answer.



Regarding Falung Gong: I find it funny that some people call it this and that, a sect, and a trick, while they themselves seem to pretty much blindly repeating something they clearly didn't make up. So think about it again, who is the puppet.

ghetto alchemist
10-17-2012, 03:04 PM
So torture, murder and the harvesting of organs of ones own people is a minor difference to what you have in Australia GA?
After the 4 years of your government might there be a possibility for you to get elected?


We have plenty of torture and murder here in Australia, harvesting of organs....who knows?
Yes, I can step up and become a member of a political party here and aspire to represent the people, as I could equally do in China, only in China I would only join the Communist Party. Still requires the same skills to make it in both systems though. And for the record the Chinese Communist Party has produced some excellent leaders over the years. Zhu Rongji is the outstanding one, even democracies like ours never produce leaders as honest, upstanding and capable as that guy. Sadly because of his honesty he calmly stepped aside when it was his time to go, depriving the country of an impeccable politician who the country really needed to stay around.



I wonder how you would feel if your brother or sister, mother or father were
beaten and tortured then cast into prison for such a trivial and passive pursuit and to finally find out
they have been murdered and their body parts sold to the highest bidder?

OK I admit, I wouldnīt like it, and I would fight it if it happened to my family. Despite what you may believe though Ghislain, these actions are highly illegal under Chinese law (murder and sale of body parts that is) and I would fight to see the perpetrators get exposed. As for jail though, it is a tough system to be jailed for being a member of an organisation plotting to overthrow a government......but if my family know the risks before they join Falun Gong, then I couldnīt really get too upset about jail time if they get caught.


Remember Tiananmen Square?

Yes I do....
Nobody in China does though..... you see the students all got the things that they were protesting for. Sure they said at the time that they wanted a democratic system. But years later they are happy with the result anyway.......because they all got better conditions in their lives.
They never really wanted a multi-party system, they only wanted a better life and better future.....which they now have!
Who cares who is running the country when you have enough to eat, a secure economic future, your own car, big screen plasma tv, a couple of bottles of French cognac on the shelf and several pairs of Nike shoes!

I mean lets be honest, isnīt this what we expect our own governments to provide for us.

The Chinese protesters have moved on since Tianamen Square Ghislain, now you have to as well.



If your government is so bad GA do something about it...they are not mudering the population of Oz...yet
I honestly want to go outside and start lighting fires and flipping cars like the French do, but Iḿ too scared and donīt really know how anyway.


At least some people in China are making a stand and they know what their government is capable of.
And that is the way that it should be too, Chinese people in China making a stand, not English people in England.

Ghislain
10-17-2012, 05:23 PM
I dont have much more to say GA so I will try to put it in another way

We are all one...or siblings so to speak...I see no borders, and any injustice to any of my siblings is an
injustice to me.

The majority are, IMO, brainwashed to accept their lot so that the select minority can flourish on the
toil of others. We, those in the 1st world don't feel the pain as much as others as it has worked so well
on us.


Who cares who is running the country when you have enough to eat, a secure economic future, your
own car, big screen plasma tv, a couple of bottles of French cognac on the shelf and several pairs of
Nike shoes!

Look into why you think that?

Do you see it?

Most see “economy” as the management of the resources of a community, country, etc... especially with a
view to its productivity; I see it as a divine plan for humanity, from creation through to final awareness.
This does not serve the parasites that live on us; and as for “enough to eat” it is because of the system that
you talk so highly of that there are those in the world that are still starving...in this day and age and with our
technology there is no excuse for a single person to go hungry.

I don’t know if you are aware of what used to be called Pyramid Selling, it now goes under the more
accepted name of Network Marketing. Pyramid selling was made illegal in the UK as it only profits those
at the top of the pyramid. Now look at the western economic system and tell me it is any different.

It is a clever captor that can keep the captives calm by creating the illusion of freedom.

If someone is happy in their illusion GA then I am happy for them, but they should not chastise those that
are not just so they can reinforce their own comfort zone illusion.

Be Happy

Ghislain

Ghislain
10-17-2012, 05:43 PM
It has just come to me that those who don't want to work and live off the state live off the toil of others.
These people are the same as those at the other end of the scale who also want to live off the toil of others.

I work quite hard in most things that I do and someone once asked me why and when I thought about it I
realised that I am inherently lazy and by working hard I can disguise this fact. Those who have built up a
big business have probably done this for the same reason.

When you talk to people who have built wealth they will tell you they worked hard for it, but this is what
every worker does every day...why should they be any different?

Going off topic here a bit :(

Ghislain

crestind
12-29-2012, 06:04 AM
I was going to post:

This is my country:

http://www.rps.psu.edu/probing/graphics/earth2.jpg


But then I realized that the post was stupid...


This is my country:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/01/05/milkyway.article.jpg

BTW: I am the president of my country... actually, all the citizens of my country are the president.
It's a nice idea, but I would consider that excessively unrealistic, new age type thinking. Idealistic, but not realistic. I seem to recall a story about how hippies back in the day wouldn't carry weapons because of their philosophical beliefs. This was not tempered by the realities of the world unfortunately, and they were often prime targets for robbery.

China's political system appears closest to fascism. Dictatorship is rule by an individual, which it is not.

zoas23
12-30-2012, 06:44 AM
It's a nice idea, but I would consider that excessively unrealistic, new age type thinking. Idealistic, but not realistic. I seem to recall a story about how hippies back in the day wouldn't carry weapons because of their philosophical beliefs. This was not tempered by the realities of the world unfortunately, and they were often prime targets for robbery.

China's political system appears closest to fascism. Dictatorship is rule by an individual, which it is not.

A lot of issues come to my mind.

I am certainly not into new age stuff.... LOL... I haven't even touched a "new age" book, nor it's the type of culture I consume.

I don't know where you live, but my guess is that you live in the U.S.A. (because of the comment about guns... and assuming that it's "normal" to carry guns).
You laugh at the hippies because they didn't carry guns. I never touched a gun in my whole life... I think I don't know anyone here (Argentina) who owns a gun. I probably don't know anyone who has touched a gun.

Given the context in which I live, I probably wouldn't have a friendship with someone who carries a gun... because I would think that the one who owns one is absolutely insane. If I decided to go to live to the U.S.A., then I assume I would get used to the idea that mostly everyone has a gun there.

O.K... we all have cultural contexts, but the point is to transcend them. Same thing goes for the countries in which we are born. A person who thinks about himself as "American", "Chinese", "Argentinean", etc... before remembering that his homeland is, at least, a whole planet... and that his reality is the human reality and not an isolated reality... is missing an important part of the human experience. That's not "New Age".

If a person falls down on the floor whilst walking along the streets, the reaction should be to help him to stand up again... and not asking "Hey, are you American or Chinese? Because if you are Chinese, then maybe I shouldn't help you"... it makes no sense. Just like thinking that the "Plight of the Falun Gong Practitioners in China" is not your problem, but a problem of those who are Chinese.

My point may sound unrealistic, but if you think about it, the idea that our countries are isolated realities is what is truly unrealistic.