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solomon levi
08-28-2012, 06:30 PM
It seems to me that everything is dreaming, and that dreaming varies according to
time/frequency, as if there is but one reality that we experience as a variety of
realities simply due to time/perceptual velocity. Is alchemy the raising of vibrations?
Is there any alchemy outside of dreaming - that isn't dream alchemy? Any magic
that isn't dream magic? Anything outside of "Mind"?

What are your thoughts, experiences, practices?
Is the stone an alignment with a particular dream, or with dreaming?

Awani
08-28-2012, 11:02 PM
It's all a dream, when awake it is more like lucid dreaming but without the power to control the dream. Finding this power is finding the Stone, imo... this is magic!

:cool:

Ghislain
08-29-2012, 07:07 AM
I had my first recalled lucid dream the other day...and I wasn’t really trying.

It was extremely weird and intermittent. I was sometimes sure it was a dream and then doubts
would creep in.

I couldn’t control it as I thought I would be able to.

I don’t think the details are worth going into as they were a bit confusing, but one thing I found
strange was that I had three circles about 1cm thick and about 3 ½ cm diameter of gold in my back
pocket and a feeling they were supposed to be there. There were no markings on them just plain and
a bit dull.

Is that lucid dream currency :)

When I woke I kept my eyes closed and images were rapidly flashing before them as though they
were evolving and then disintegrating.

Anyone else experienced this?

Ghislain

lwowl
08-29-2012, 11:47 PM
I had my first recalled lucid dream the other day...and I wasn’t really trying.

It was extremely weird and intermittent. I was sometimes sure it was a dream and then doubts
would creep in.

I couldn’t control it as I thought I would be able to.

I don’t think the details are worth going into as they were a bit confusing, but one thing I found
strange was that I had three circles about 1cm thick and about 3 ½ cm diameter of gold in my back
pocket and a feeling they were supposed to be there. There were no markings on them just plain and
a bit dull.

Is that lucid dream currency :)

When I woke I kept my eyes closed and images were rapidly flashing before them as though they
were evolving and then disintegrating.

Anyone else experienced this?

Ghislain

I’ve had many lucid dreams, clairvoyant dreams and prophetic dreams. I learned to interpret and relate to dream energy by applying the I Ching oracles to the elements in the dreams.

It’s difficult to enter a lucid dream state and more difficult to maintain the dream state at the onset of lucidity or conscious awareness that you are in a dream. I tried all the “occultish” control methods to travel in dreams and to just control the dream vector symbolism fields of activity. Most of what I read turned out to be inaccurate at best.

The field input to your virtual senses in dreamtime is radically altered when you succeed in stabilizing the field “window” you are in. When you confront the characters in the dream scene you will quickly find which ones are automatons because they have no response to your lucid remarks.

You can change anything in the drama when you are lucid. You can be seduced by the dreamtime powers you seem to have until the chaos you cause attracts the powers that be unconscious. I’ve gone to war with them only to be smothered and driven out when the Unconscious transmuted the dreamtime battlefield into a large elastic ball, quite reminiscent of what happened to the “Prisoner” every time he tried to escape from the island.

Traveling in dreamtime is a different situation. The powers that be unconscious don’t care if you travel or navigate around, but you’ll need a lot of energy to do it; willing it so because you are lucid won’t get you very far. You will not get to your desired destination unless you can recognize the “vehicles” that show up to get you to your focused destination.

For example I once focused on going to my house when I was away only to miss and land at the barn. When I tried to jump to the house there was too much resistance so I looked around for something to get me there. A Jeep 4x4 showed up. The doors were locked and I didn’t have the keys. When I pondered a solution to the situation I lost lucid stability and the Unconscious spun me out of the dream.

lwowl

Ilos
08-30-2012, 06:19 PM
I remember a time when people used to imagine, even dream of changing the TV stations from their seats, not having to get up and walk to the TV. It didn't take long till the remote control was discovered. I like to believe that dreams come true but I also believe that not all dreams come true. (Maybe If I was Isaac Newton Id be able to describe the difference of the dreams). Just think, what if Thoth never dreamed anything thats connected with Alchemy, maybe he would never discovered it. Maybe dreams are like matters, connecting together, reality and imaginary forming something thats most possible wile sleeping called dreaming, creating a new psychological matter enabling, in this case, people, to see things that they could never find an answer for it, until they saw it either with their eyes open or closed. The answer could be anywhere, in books or in dreams, Its a matter, waiting to be seen something thats screaming from inside to come out to be integrated with life.

solomon levi
09-06-2012, 03:31 AM
It seems to me that one can't change the smallest thing without altering the entire universe,
by which I mean that in order to change anything, we change everything - as above, so below.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it appears lately. Energy work that I do on a personal level
seems to change me subatomically and the universe macrocosmically.

Ouroboros
09-06-2012, 08:25 AM
I had my first recalled lucid dream the other day...and I wasn’t really trying.

It was extremely weird and intermittent. I was sometimes sure it was a dream and then doubts
would creep in.

I couldn’t control it as I thought I would be able to.

I don’t think the details are worth going into as they were a bit confusing, but one thing I found
strange was that I had three circles about 1cm thick and about 3 ½ cm diameter of gold in my back
pocket and a feeling they were supposed to be there. There were no markings on them just plain and
a bit dull.

Is that lucid dream currency :)

When I woke I kept my eyes closed and images were rapidly flashing before them as though they
were evolving and then disintegrating.

Anyone else experienced this?

Ghislain
often when i go to bed and right before i fall asleep same thing happened. before my eyes (and they are closed) pictures start to flash and to transform one in another, to envolve and transform. and they are pretty clear althoug they don't have any visual conection with objects in reality. one time i remember i saw my neck is like tube and water is all around and not in the tube. and then some neddle went through it and water start ti pour out of empty tube ????
i don't know what that mean.but it was only time when picture was black-and white,they are always very colourful.
and i', not sure if i catch right meaning from the first post about realities but i think that lovecraft explain that very good in story through the gates of silver key.
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/tgsk.asp

Andro
09-06-2012, 08:46 AM
The gates of silver key.

This is not directly related, but I feel I need to say it:

If/when out of body (or lucid dreaming), you see a silver chord 'dangling' in you proximity - GRAB IT ! ! !

It is a 'Gate' (or more of an 'Ariadne's Thread') that can lead to some very interesting discoveries...

Ouroboros
09-06-2012, 08:48 AM
This is not directly related, but I feel I need to say it:

If/when out of body (or lucid dreaming), you see a silver chord 'dangling' in you proximity - GRAB IT ! ! !

It is a 'Gate' (or more of an 'Ariadne's Thread') that can lead to some very interesting discoveries...

now i like that story more and i would read it few more times. it is already my fav. thank you for this information.

solomon levi
09-07-2012, 03:29 AM
often when i go to bed and right before i fall asleep same thing happened. before my eyes (and they are closed) pictures start to flash and to transform one in another, to envolve and transform. and they are pretty clear althoug they don't have any visual conection with objects in reality. one time i remember i saw my neck is like tube and water is all around and not in the tube. and then some neddle went through it and water start ti pour out of empty tube ????
i don't know what that mean.but it was only time when picture was black-and white,they are always very colourful.
and i', not sure if i catch right meaning from the first post about realities but i think that lovecraft explain that very good in story through the gates of silver key.
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/tgsk.asp


I guess I'll add an experience for the record. There was one time I entered the lucid dream state
from an awakened one (before going to bed) by remembering myself roller skating when I was
younger, feeling the muscles in my legs, the centrifugal force around the curves, etc. Then I started
to head for a wall like I was going to crash, and the wall and the whole dream started flashing through
colors and patterns and I woke up.
So this seems like a common thread.

Corvidus
09-22-2012, 08:20 PM
What are your thoughts, experiences, practices?
Is the stone an alignment with a particular dream, or with dreaming?

out of the dreams I have had related to alchemy, they seem much more instructive than anything. There is usually a professor figure (either the favorite literature professor I had in college or someone I don't recognize) giving a lesson or pointing out something in Nature. So in my opinion the stone, a stone, alchemy in general is the alignment with a particular dream. Daydreaming and meditation might also fit into the category of dream state.



I don’t think the details are worth going into as they were a bit confusing, but one thing I found
strange was that I had three circles about 1cm thick and about 3 ½ cm diameter of gold in my back
pocket and a feeling they were supposed to be there. There were no markings on them just plain and
a bit dull.

Is that lucid dream currency :)

Could be! Maybe not 'lucid' dream currency, but I remember two dreams specifically dealing with some type of coin. In the first I held a large copper and gold penny which I took with me into a large government-like building. Inside the building were huge black stone doors with golden writing above them. Never made it inside any rooms though... very interested in going back.

Another involved me rolling a coin across a large, golden and circular table which rotated like a roulette wheel. It was a while back and I think it had something to do with astrology. . I'll have to dig for it to make sure.

[A bit off topic, but with these coins, did you buy anything interesting? :p I love collecting dream items. My favorites being a talisman in the shape of a cat eye, a photo of me and a tiger (my chinese zodiac is a tiger) and an egg.]

solomon levi
09-27-2012, 09:54 PM
Many replied with literal sleeping dreams... in what ways are you bringing the awareness of dreaming into this moment,
or every/any other? Don't you dream all the time? Do you use dreaming to alter reality?

For me, dreaming is attention... attention is dream attention, time attention... time-space-light-matter attention.
Our dreaming is so incredibly intricate that people can't normally distinguish it.
Manipulating time is one way to know you are dreaming, at any time, and if that only happens
while asleep, it'll be hard to apply to the lab and life.
Make/perceive the vortex right now, with your energy... you can't not be a vortex/wormhole.
The question is, what are you channelling/transmitting? A past/known or a future muse/genius?
Are you transmuting what comes to you into unconditioned heaven, or are you passing the buck?


Dreams are specified and personalised by their conditions.
Your name is a dream which carries a story, a history.
Where you live, who you know, what you do or don't do... identity is a dream.
Do you dream specified/particular/individual or universal?
Do you love unconditionally?
Is it a small dream of just you and your family and friends, or is it larger?
How large can you be/dream?
Can you dream externally as well as internally?

Corvidus
09-28-2012, 12:48 AM
Seems on my end a misunderstanding of the topic and terms.

Dreaming is attention. . . How so?
In my opinion attention is the focused will, and dreaming is letting the will be directed by some unknown, towards some unknown.
It could take us towards self realization. Could take us towards revelation.
To become lost in dream.
To be shrouded beneath the Veil of Maya.
How else can we be asleep and dreaming and lucid and absorbed in physical reality without following?
For me attention is not following.
Attention is consciousness in control; mind acting on matter whether subtle or gross.

Do I dream all the time? Only when not at work, only when my attention is not needed to direct the orchestra or to keep my rice from boiling over.

your other questions confound me at the moment. will give them thought and respond later.



Manipulating time is one way to know you are dreaming, at any time, and if that only happens
while asleep, it'll be hard to apply to the lab and life.

I somewhat agree with you here. Time exists because we take note of change, one thing we measure is change over time.
But is manipulating change a manipulation of time?

Corvidus
09-28-2012, 09:20 PM
Dreams are specified and personalised by their conditions.
Your name is a dream which carries a story, a history.
Where you live, who you know, what you do or don't do... identity is a dream.

would you mind elaborating on this?

solomon levi
09-28-2012, 10:43 PM
Hi Corvidus!

Well, everything conditioned is a dream, conditioned by attention or awareness.
Focussed will is one form of specialised attention. Certainly you recognise attention
can be unfocussed. Focussed/concentrated and dispersed are things we can do with attention.
However we use it, that produces a dream. Dreams can be directed by others, by environment,
by an "unknown", by oneself...

"How else can we be asleep and dreaming and lucid and absorbed in physical reality without following?"

I'm not sure what you mean. Following someone/thing else?
Are you equating dreaming with sleep/unconsciousness/following?

For me, wakefullness is still dreaming. Leading or not following is still a dreaming.
One could even say not following is following something - following the way of not-following;
Following spirit instead of ego; following the unknown...

"Attention is consciousness in control; mind acting on matter whether subtle or gross."

I'm not aware of a time when consciousness has not been "in control" or mind has not acted on matter.
Of course, we can define those if necessary. What is mind? Whose mind? What isn't consciousness?
Mind, simply by observing, acts on what it observes.
Out of control... whose control? Who are you? Are you your mind?

You don't have to answer those. I'm just trying to reveal the nature of dreaming. :)


"Do I dream all the time? Only when not at work, only when my attention is not needed to direct the orchestra or to keep my rice from boiling over."

It sounds like you only count conscious willful dreaming/attention as dreaming/attention.
Who is dreaming your cell metabolism? Or the sun's? Not "you". Dreaming is everywhere and everything.
When a proton meets a neutron to form a nucleus, that is them dreaming together.
When they dream with electrons to form various elements of the periodic table, that is consciousness dreaming.
When those elements make molecules or dna, and dna dreams as plants or animals or humans who have self-reflection,
that too is all the dreaming. When you call your friend and say "let's get together", same dreaming...

Human dreaming is a small fragment of the dreaming. We are not the most accomplished dreamers here - far from it.
But our potential is unlimited. :)


Time... well, I was referring to making time/tempo go faster or slower.
Perhaps instead of saying "making", I could say "noticing" time go faster or slower,
since time is already flowing at all frequencies already somewhere.
Personally, I'm not a fan of willfulness. "My will" belongs to "me" and "me" isn't a very
good magician/dreamer/alchemist. "All" is larger than "me".
Anyway, noticing things that already are but often go unnoticed (which includes everything/Infinity)
is a simpler approach than putting my will against something else's. So "manipulating time" is something
more subtle... it's just noticing other times that are always already present. When we notice things and nothings,
they notice us too. When light attention of noticing becomes heavier attention of engaging, I liken that to "channelling" that energy.
Everyone you meet is already existing on a different time than you. We may call that personality, zodiac, four humours...
a mental person, an emotional person, a physical person, etc... all variations of time, just to name a few simplified examples.
The fact of Babylon (not being able to understand eachother) is good evidence of this.

I'll come back to this later so I don't get too lengthy of a post.
But the unconditioned quintessence is the key to time and the elements.
Otherwise we would have to learn them one at a time, which will take an infinite amount of time.

solomon levi
09-28-2012, 11:09 PM
would you mind elaborating on this?

Sure. :)

An identity or personal history is a definition or a set of conditions that we meet or don't meet.
Having a good reputation is as conditioned as having a bad one for a magician/dreamer.
As much as you believe your story, your history, your past, your identity... that defines you,
sets your limits/boundaries.
For example, "I'm married to Susan." is a very specific/specified/conditioned/defined thing.
Why do we choose that? Why are we unmarried to everyone but Susan, including ourselves?
Maybe that sounds silly. It is silly. Marriage is kind of silly, isn't it? This is just one piece of identity/conditioning
that defines our world and our selves. And how can we be Infinity while married to Susan?
(I'm not saying you can't... I'm saying how can we.)
How does John/Jane Doe become NOT John/Jane Doe in order to be ALL.
The ALL is dreaming. The ALL is a different dream than John's dream.
John is the son of Bill and Glenda Doe and they didn't have much growing up... etc, etc....
That's identity - our past which we carry around with us presently (unless you don't)...
those people you know, past and present, that expect something of you, whether that something
is financial, emotional, psychological...

Anyway, that's all a small dream IMO.
Big dreams go beyond the ego identity, even beyond being human.
"We are consciousness" is more accurate than "we are humans".
At least for me. Depends on your identity. :)
To others, human values are very important.
I'm not saying they're not important. I'm saying this is what defines one's ability to dream.
What we emphasize and de-emphasize. How we define ourselves and our reality makes the nature of the dream.

Corvidus
09-29-2012, 09:12 AM
oh hey :)


Are you equating dreaming with sleep/unconsciousness/following?

yes, except for unconsciousness. A man can be conscious or not and still dreaming.


For me, wakefullness is still dreaming.

I agree.


One could even say not following is following something - following the way of not-following;
Following spirit instead of ego; following the unknown...

this to be true, however, could be said about almost anything. Bad example on my part I guess.


I'm not aware of a time when consciousness has not been "in control" or mind has not acted on matter.

Have you ever been thoroughly under the influence of intoxicants? Psilocybe, mescalin or any other psychedelic will bend you to its will, its influence, if you are not prepared. Either way you must submit. This or you have a bad trip which leads to nothing but disappointment.
In this case I would say the mind is the observer. you might interact with the substance, but there are always lessons to learn. even in repeated use.
I guess in this case it would be matter acting on mind.


You don't have to answer those. I'm just trying to reveal the nature of dreaming.

No worries, I am very interested in the nature of dreaming.


It sounds like you only count conscious willful dreaming/attention as dreaming/attention.
Who is dreaming your cell metabolism? Or the sun's? Not "you".

I reference this:


In my opinion attention is the focused will, and dreaming is letting the will be directed by some unknown, towards some unknown.

or I don't completely understand what you mean.


When a proton meets a neutron to form a nucleus, that is them dreaming together.

I would say it's them making love. But that's vulgar :p


When those elements make molecules or dna, and dna dreams as plants or animals or humans who have self-reflection,
that too is all the dreaming. When you call your friend and say "let's get together", same dreaming...

ha, I appreciate that you think I have friends. . .
but seriously. I am starting to think you equate 'dreams' to 'potential'.

and here I somewhat agree. Potential I equate to the feminine. However as of late I am disappointed in the feminine. . .

to dream, for me, is a path undefined. The end, of course, is held in mind. The following of the footsteps in the dark, where we must hold up a lantern to distinguish the way. We do not know where we're walking but we have faith in the end. We have an idea where we're going.


Human dreaming is a small fragment of the dreaming. We are not the most accomplished dreamers here - far from it.
But our potential is unlimited.

Completely agree. Could not have said it better.


a mental person, an emotional person, a physical person, etc... all variations of time, just to name a few simplified examples.
The fact of Babylon (not being able to understand each other) is good evidence of this.

I'll come back to this later so I don't get too lengthy of a post.

Please do. I have not read much into Babylon.


But the unconditioned quintessence is the key to time and the elements.
Otherwise we would have to learn them one at a time, which will take an infinite amount of time.

Here I disagree. Although we cannot separate the qualities of the elements completely (as far as I have experienced. . . you might know different. And I urge, please do tell!) we can know their interactions with each other—which does not take that long compared to other things. How else do you expect to now any thing about Nature?
Now to know the unconditioned quintessence. . . I don't even know what you mean. 'Quintessence' for me is a difficult word. And unconditioned I take as undetermined. But that is probably for another conversation.

also the rest.

endpost

thanks androgynus for the quote brackets.

Corvidus
09-29-2012, 09:27 AM
this was actually a double post, which was due more to intoxication that anything. . .

But I would like to give my perspective.
Dreaming is something the conscious mind does, but not consciously.
There is a place beyond, somewhere between 'dreaming' and complete dissolution with the Universe.

This is very difficult for me to put into words, i apologize.

Ghislain
09-29-2012, 03:24 PM
For quintessence see “Spiritus Mundi ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi&highlight=spiritus+mundi)”


The Renaissance mage Cornelius Agrippa ( http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/agrippa.html) makes clear the importance of the
quintessence or Spiritus Mundi stating that, "By this Spirit therefore every occult
property is conveyed into herbs, stones, metals and animals, through the Sun,
Moon, planets and through stars higher than the planets." Three Books of Occult
Philosophy Bk. I, Chapter 14 (Tyson ed.) page 44. ( http://www.amazon.com/Three-Occult-Philosophy-Llewellyns-Sourcebook/dp/0875428320)
Therefore the Spiritus Mundi is a vital link in the chain of harmony and
correspondence that makes astrology, alchemy and magic possible. A knowledge
of the quintessence, and ability to manipulate it are necessary for the mastery of
traditional astrological magic.

Source ( http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/spiritusmundi.html)

I would like to add here just some things I have pondered while reading these posts.

Could it be that what is being referred to here as dreams and dreaming could just be the vision of
preordained form...we see nothing that is new just things that are, or have been unknown to our
consciousness. I would relate it to “riding a wave” as when you ride a wave you feel like you have
some control, but the wave will end up where it should be irrespective of how you ride it and thus we
can all have a different perspective of the wave depending on our choice of direction upon it, but in
life’s fractal nature we also are like a wave upon that wave and so we too end up where we should
be. I guess what I am referring to here is fate.

A crude example may be Memory Metal (http://mrsec.wisc.edu/Edetc/background/memmetal/index.html)...this is a metal form that can be bent and twisted to
desired shapes then, under given conditions, can return to its original form thus all the outside
manipulation has had no permanent effect on the predetermined outcome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hfv1PeXRk

Quid Erit, Erit; Que Sera, Sera; What Will Be, Will Be :confused:

Ghislain

solomon levi
10-01-2012, 09:44 AM
Have you ever been thoroughly under the influence of intoxicants? Psilocybe, mescalin or any other psychedelic will bend you to its will, its influence, if you are not prepared. Either way you must submit. This or you have a bad trip which leads to nothing but disappointment.
In this case I would say the mind is the observer. you might interact with the substance, but there are always lessons to learn. even in repeated use.
I guess in this case it would be matter acting on mind.

I see the difference is that I don't mean "my" consciousness or "my" mind.
If I were "my" consciousness or mind, I wouldn't be able to dream very well - only solomon levi dreams.
The identity "solomon levi" cannot manipulated or notice other times or dream beyond his identity.
The identity has taken psychedelics before and they showed him he doesn't exist.
I submit to that. Mushrooms are excellent dreamers. :)
But reality also shows me that I don't exist; submitting to "that which is" is wisdom.
So can you see that if I am not "my" consciousness but simply consciousness that I/consciousness
has never been out of control? Consciousness would have to divide itself into control and out of control
in order to experience that, which it has, so in that case, I agree with you... but consciousness is also undivided,
in which case, I "disagree". But yes, I do submit that the dream-experience of my consciousness not being in
control is an option. It's just not my default program anymore. I can follow your dream, but I perceive it is
more accurate to say mind is the observer, the observed and the observation. We could talk about the
mushrooms mind or spirit and my mind as if they are different, but that wouldn't make the
option/dream of them being the same impossible. Don't psilocybes show you that?
Don't they obliterate your identity, and don't you have to re-member your identity in order to
come "back down"? Solve-coagula.
So maybe now you understand why I asked about your "unconscious" cell metabolism, or the
sun's which "you" are not conscious of, even though you are the sun and the universe... consciousness.



but seriously. I am starting to think you equate 'dreams' to 'potential'.

and here I somewhat agree. Potential I equate to the feminine. However as of late I am disappointed in the feminine. . .

to dream, for me, is a path undefined. The end, of course, is held in mind. The following of the footsteps in the dark, where we must hold up a lantern to distinguish the way. We do not know where we're walking but we have faith in the end. We have an idea where we're going.

I like that definition... I mean I'm glad that you consider the undefined. :)
But I don't mean potential by dreaming. I mean everything... potential, actual, past, present, future, senses, mind, emotions... all dreaming.
If we want to divide dreaming, to me the most significant distinctions are their fixedness/volatility.
Facebook was a volatile dream inside the head of a person before it became a "concrete" reality.
Planets were volatile dreams within stars before they were ex-pressed... etc, etc.
And yet a few hundred years ago the sun revolved around the earth according to the dream of humanity.
Even today you can find people who don't believe dinosaurs ever existed.
Some will simply say these last two examples are cases of people beliving something untrue,
but dreaming is equally effective regardless if true or false.
Sometimes we think we've awakened from a dream only to awaken once again, or maybe more than once again...
then we call the other awakenings "false awakenings", but they were real until we awoke the second or third time.
Hindsight is 20/20... or is it? Hindsight says one was true, the other false. Maybe 20/20 is saying both/all are dreaming.


On Babylon.... NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) has recognised for years that people "chunk" information
differently. One of these differences has to do with which sense people use dominantly - visual, auditory, touch...
People often tell you which sense they tend to use most through their vocabulary. For example, I could write
a post on a wet method for antimony and someone may reply "sounds like a good idea". What sounds are
they hearing? There are none. Just these words on a screen. Anyway, knowing what sense a prospective
employer favors may decide if you get the job or not. People respond differently to different ways of
chunking info. People generally like people who are like themselves. So if you chunk the information in a
way your employer can assimilate it, they will like you. If you can't, they will feel something isn't right
between the two of you. So senses is just one example. Zodiac is another. A leo and an aries may be
both fire signs, but one is cardinal and the other fixed... etc, etc.
So instead of learning to mimick or develop rapport with each of the millions of differences people
exhibit, one can be unconditioned quintessence/philosophical mercury/undetermined spiritus mundi
which is the root of All. Elements are the masks/personas in which the fifth element is clothed.
The fifth element or quintessence is generally dimensionally quarantined.

solomon levi
10-01-2012, 09:58 AM
For quintessence see “Spiritus Mundi ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi&highlight=spiritus+mundi)”



Source ( http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/spiritusmundi.html)

I would like to add here just some things I have pondered while reading these posts.

Could it be that what is being referred to here as dreams and dreaming could just be the vision of
preordained form...we see nothing that is new just things that are, or have been unknown to our
consciousness. I would relate it to “riding a wave” as when you ride a wave you feel like you have
some control, but the wave will end up where it should be irrespective of how you ride it and thus we
can all have a different perspective of the wave depending on our choice of direction upon it, but in
life’s fractal nature we also are like a wave upon that wave and so we too end up where we should
be. I guess what I am referring to here is fate.

A crude example may be Memory Metal (http://mrsec.wisc.edu/Edetc/background/memmetal/index.html)...this is a metal form that can be bent and twisted to
desired shapes then, under given conditions, can return to its original form thus all the outside
manipulation has had no permanent effect on the predetermined outcome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hfv1PeXRk

Quid Erit, Erit; Que Sera, Sera; What Will Be, Will Be :confused:

Ghislain

Wow. I'm not sure I understand that - the vision of preordained form??
I'll try to wrap my head around that again tomorrow. :)
For me, dreaming is simply the recognition of all as consciousness and therefore
connected or one; thus if I pluck this string here I hear this tone... if I tune to this
station I receive this particular program... etc. I am consciousness. All is consciousness.
So it makes sense to be confused about whether the dreamer is dreaming the dream
or whether the dream is dreaming the dreamer. These are two ways of dreaming -
two types/aspects of attention.

Ghislain
10-01-2012, 12:09 PM
So instead of learning to mimick or develop rapport with each of the millions of differences people
exhibit, one can be unconditioned quintessence/philosophical mercury/undetermined spiritus mundi
which is the root of All. Elements are the masks/personas in which the fifth element is clothed.


Is this to say that there is no first, second, third or fourth elements, but they are all just manifestations of
the fifth? So the fifth element is the first, the Spiritus Mundi, the Prima Materia?

From macro to micro to quantum to string to M to nothingness...is this all just a fifth/first element or rather
no element at all?

Then who or what is feeling my pain?


All is consciousness. So it makes sense to be confused about whether the dreamer is dreaming the
dream or whether the dream is dreaming the dreamer.

Or both at the same time/now.


The fifth element or quintessence is generally dimensionally quarantined

If all is one/prima/first then can it be correct to include dimension...dimension compared to what?

Respectfully

Ghislain

This is a bit of a backward spin, but while writing the next post I mentioned "rules" within dreams;
are dimensions rules? Why can't I put just any musical note together to make a tune...I can hear
people thinking "you can", but in reality even music has rules or it is just an aweful noise...try it!...
What determines these rules?

Ghislain
10-01-2012, 12:22 PM
Corvidus

I must have missed your post above and just noticed you asked...


A bit off topic, but with these coins, did you buy anything interesting?

The first coin, not realising the possible value, I wasted, I can't remember what on, but I remember feeling it was
a bit irresponsible of me and that I should take more care of the two that were left.

Seems there are do's and don’ts even in lucid dreams :( more rules lol

Ghislain

Corvidus
10-02-2012, 02:37 AM
Some thoughts. I'm glad this conversation is happening.


I can follow your dream, but I perceive it is
more accurate to say mind is the observer, the observed and the observation. We could talk about the
mushrooms mind or spirit and my mind as if they are different, but that wouldn't make the
option/dream of them being the same impossible. Don't psilocybes show you that? Don't they obliterate your identity, and don't you have to re-member your identity in order to
come "back down"? Solve-coagula.
So maybe now you understand why I asked about your "unconscious" cell metabolism, or the
sun's which "you" are not conscious of, even though you are the sun and the universe... consciousness.

Yes I am beginning to understand your perspective. I think I was distracted by my bad joke. And I agree, everything has a consciousness, but I also believe that these consciousnesses are incredibly different. For me dreaming is something only an intelligent mind can do, only an observer, observed and observation can do. Or at least it would be speculation on my part to say a plant or a mineral or their [ethereal, airy, fiery, watery, earthy] elements can observe things, so I don't include them. I don't see them as dreaming to become purified and exalted into the next existence, or dreaming to become some fashionable thing--that will happen anyways at Nature's discretion or when it falls into the hands of an Artist. Their governing spirits or the planets which send out the energies they absorb to sustain their life, I see those as the intelligent consciousnesses, and through ingesting a plant we open a connection to them. Or just by looking out at the stars at night and saying hello. In this sense I agree with you, that we become one and the same for a moment in time.

I guess I am just uncomfortable with the scope you give to "dreaming" and what is able to "dream", that dreaming is everywhere and everything. But I do agree that everything and everywhere is part of the 'dream', in this present consciousness and the next, and maybe even the next. Not sure how high the hierarchy of consciousnesses go before we truly awaken from the dream.

If we dream, we must awaken at some point. If it were a polarity, 'To Dream and Dreaming' and 'To Wake and Awakening' would be on opposite sides. I see it as this, or the words are meaningless themselves and we need a much better one.

And mushrooms certainly do, and have. And now that you mention it I can see that once you ingest and assimilate you become one and the same. The most impressive solvent I have used is Salvia Divinorum. It literally tore my mind to pieces. I now fondly call it Slinky Razor. It showed me the threshold between consciousnesses, and I had a choice to stay or go. It was terrible to have the option so soon in my life, even have the option at all.




If we want to divide dreaming, to me the most significant distinctions are their fixedness/volatility.

I agree with this division, but would suggest we add the distinction of dreamer/dream as well.
The dreamer is the one in control of the dream, the one actively pursuing the dreaming, and whether or not it is made manifest. This could be you, another intelligent consciousness or the All.
The dream would consist of the objects the dreamer uses and the path he has yet to find in order to manifest his dream. The elements, a gemstone, his mind, will, a distillation, calcination and etc.

I think you sort of mention it here:


So it makes sense to be confused about whether the dreamer is dreaming the dream
or whether the dream is dreaming the dreamer. These are two ways of dreaming -
two types/aspects of attention.

Corvidus
10-02-2012, 02:38 AM
Is this to say that there is no first, second, third or fourth elements, but they are all just manifestations of
the fifth?

I know your quote is directed from solomon, but here's my opinion to give you both my perspective on things included in the “dream”. This view is not my own, just a testimony I particularly favor. It is the philosophy of Kanaada and is called Vaisheshika. It is similar to Alchemical philosophy.

There is Ether, or Akasha, the first expression of Consciousness. It is all-pervading, omnipotent and manifests on the physical plain its pure spiritual energy as nuclear energy.
This first Consciousness, or Akasha, becomes Air when it is directed by thought in a certain direction—coagulation for instance. This movement most usually manifests as electrical energy.
When these Air molecules move fast enough and gain enough presence, their motion creates friction and therefore heat. Once this motion builds up enough heat, it becomes Fire. This is Agni, which governs all transformations. Fire moves out in all directions and manifests as radiant energy.
When this Fire becomes hot enough and of a certain quality it liquifies the surrounding elements and Water is made manifest. Water manifests itself as chemical energy.
If Water is given the proper conditions and directed further down, it crystalizes and forms Earth. Earth expresses itself as physical, mechanical energy.

For me, each is built upon the last. Each has a specific manifestation of energy and is a part of Consciousness and each is included in the dream of Consciousness, but are not dreamers themselves. They are the hammer or alembic used in the manifestation of dreams.

solomon levi
10-05-2012, 06:26 PM
Some thoughts. I'm glad this conversation is happening.

Me too. :)



Yes I am beginning to understand your perspective. I think I was distracted by my bad joke. And I agree, everything has a consciousness, but I also believe that these consciousnesses are incredibly different.


For the record, what I said is that everything IS consciousness, not HAS A consciousness.
These are different statements. For me, first-hand meditative practice/observation has shown me that there
is no "I" or separate self which possesses consciousness - there is only consciousness.
There are differences in consciousness, just as a wavelength can be very large like Hertzian or
very small like gamma, but they are both wavelengths nonetheless. Everything, from thoughts to senses
to matter, has frequency and wavelength. And all wavelengths exist relative to the flat-line, the midpoint of the
crests and troughs... no matter how large or small or slow or fast the frequency is, the flat-line is identical
in all of them - it never moves; it is no thing - and it is the Axis Mundi. Everything contains it but it is no thing.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQuCYwn-YVungN2FI4ugU4B69r9yk9g4f2RpfJKV3ipZ6dYMyaxdA

In this image, someone has labelled the flat-line "time".
I decided to use this image because alchemy and dreaming/attention are about time/Saturn as first matter.
But as I comprehend it, this flat-line is quintessence or aether - fifth "element".
Everything "points" to it by revolving around it, hence: axis mundi.
Now the billion dollar question would be, IMO, "how is spiritus mundi related to axis mundi?"
But that's another thread.




For me dreaming is something only an intelligent mind can do, only an observer, observed and observation can do. Or at least it would be speculation on my part to say a plant or a mineral or their [ethereal, airy, fiery, watery, earthy] elements can observe things, so I don't include them. I don't see them as dreaming to become purified and exalted into the next existence, or dreaming to become some fashionable thing--that will happen anyways at Nature's discretion or when it falls into the hands of an Artist. Their governing spirits or the planets which send out the energies they absorb to sustain their life, I see those as the intelligent consciousnesses, and through ingesting a plant we open a connection to them. Or just by looking out at the stars at night and saying hello. In this sense I agree with you, that we become one and the same for a moment in time.


I understand. I didn't always think or see this way. But I am now certain that everything which exists
is able to do so because it comes from Source - one source, one life, All-intelligent, All-consciousness.
I was shown this in visions, but now I see it as self-evident. How else can it be? For me it is the same to say
we all come from Source or Source dreams All (All is dreaming).
If one doesn't agree with that, perhaps one can at least see that DNA is intelligent and dreaming in plants and
animals as well as humans. Well, maybe that isn't any easier to see - I understand that by dreaming with DNA
same way I dreamed with Source. Dreaming with Source some have called Cosmic consciousness.
Maybe something that may help see is that there are dreams within dreams.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGK6ozznEwht7rQr5ysYPK6WXoeF5RA jPsxG7ZkYQoAi4xwSVA

Like these nesting dolls fit inside eachother according to size (frequency/wavelength/amplitude... whatever).
So your cells are dreaming, performing their functions, even as you dream, even as you drive down the street
effortlessly daydreaming about another place and time, even while wars are being fought in other parts of the world...

It's funny that time is/equals dreaming and yet time is also what makes it appear that things aren't dreaming.
Time makes it appear that plants are separate, as well as people - for example, when does the seed stop being
the parent and become the child (in plants and humans)? The child/seedling was the dream of the parents but it
also dreams itself and its own dreams... don't we all have individual and collective dreams? Again, this is dreams
within dreams.



I guess I am just uncomfortable with the scope you give to "dreaming" and what is able to "dream", that dreaming is everywhere and everything. But I do agree that everything and everywhere is part of the 'dream', in this present consciousness and the next, and maybe even the next. Not sure how high the hierarchy of consciousnesses go before we truly awaken from the dream.

If we dream, we must awaken at some point. If it were a polarity, 'To Dream and Dreaming' and 'To Wake and Awakening' would be on opposite sides. I see it as this, or the words are meaningless themselves and we need a much better one.


Awake can still be dreaming just as "unconscious" can still be conscious of something; for example, the person who dies
for 10 minutes and remembers a near-death experience is unconscious as far as the doctor is concerned.
That things are so relative/subjective is also a sign of dreaming. Meaning is very relative/subjective. Words are
very specific dreams that we often take generically or as if they have objective (dictionary) meaning which is absolute for everyone.
But even dictionaries have helped us very little to communicate well because we've forgotten that we're dreaming.
When we know others are dreaming, we listen very differently, we don't make assumptions, we find our personal knowledge
is almost useless, we must learn anew as if for the first time... we must be present... same as when we take psychedelics - as
you mention next/below, it tears your mind to pieces.



And mushrooms certainly do, and have. And now that you mention it I can see that once you ingest and assimilate you become one and the same. The most impressive solvent I have used is Salvia Divinorum. It literally tore my mind to pieces. I now fondly call it Slinky Razor. It showed me the threshold between consciousnesses, and I had a choice to stay or go. It was terrible to have the option so soon in my life, even have the option at all.

I agree with this division, but would suggest we add the distinction of dreamer/dream as well.
The dreamer is the one in control of the dream, the one actively pursuing the dreaming, and whether or not it is made manifest. This could be you, another intelligent consciousness or the All.
The dream would consist of the objects the dreamer uses and the path he has yet to find in order to manifest his dream. The elements, a gemstone, his mind, will, a distillation, calcination and etc.

I think you sort of mention it here:

Okay. But control is relative to an illusory "I".
When/if we see this "I" has no substance other than psychological, then to whom do we ascribe control?

Corvidus
10-07-2012, 03:49 PM
For the record, what I said is that everything IS consciousness, not HAS A consciousness.
These are different statements. For me, first-hand meditative practice/observation has shown me that there
is no "I" or separate self which possesses consciousness - there is only consciousness.

Oops, sorry about that. my mistake. English is second language.


Okay. But control is relative to an illusory "I".
When/if we see this "I" has no substance other than psychological, then to whom do we ascribe control?

Ah yes, forgot you use the term 'control' differently than me. Ha, could say I forget we're dreaming separate dreams.
Perhaps I worded it incorrectly when I said the dreamer is the one in control of the dream, it was a statement of belief in free-will. It might have been better for me to say: The dreamer is the one with the freedom of choice in the dream, the one actively pursuing these choices while dreaming, and ultimately whether or not it is made manifest. This could be you, another intelligent consciousness or the All (pr Supreme Consciousness).

But as for the term illusory “I”, is it really illusion once you recognize it for what it truly is?
When Supreme Consciousness manifests as a consciousness, there is first the realization that one exists. This is what I mean by 'Awakening'. Could also word it as the realization of Universal and Objective Truth, but in this sense it would be relative.
It is only after this recognition of individual existence that the expression of the 'I' came about.

'Form before function' could easily be extended to 'and function before definition' (but just speculating on this extention).

What is an illusion in the first place?
Noun. A false idea or belief. A deceptive appearance or impression. A thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.

The 'illusory I' is only a false idea or understanding of the self, a self which deceives us through being wrongly interpreted by us. For me it exists nonetheless, similar to your wavelengths in relation to the flat-line or your many dolls. Indeed I see it as necessary for existence and the evolution of the soul to be possible. What is a soul if not an individual consciousness?

However the senses are fallible; the mind wanders in and out of imagination much too readily; it catches hold of objective things and turns them into subjections; it distorts and muddies the dream. The mind—not the singular and profound feeling of 'I exist', but the psychological expressions of that 'I'—promotes false ideas of the self, that perpetual 'I exist' moment necessary to divide heaven and earth, or the waters from the waters. These false ideas of the self blind us from Universal and Objective Truth. Sure, men might be able to dissolve their mind and the 'I' and unite with Supreme Consciousness, but how long does that last? And for what purpose other than coming into the knowledge and understanding of Truth and then manifesting that Divine Truth here on earth does this dissolution serve?

How is it said? A death which results in the resurrection of life?




My newest interpretation of Hermes::p

It is the perfecter of our dreams.
Our dreams are vigorous when they are fixed.
But act prudently and with judgement in your dreaming, separate the vulgar from the philosophic dreams.
Dream for union with the Divine Dreamer, and Unite. Thus you will witness the dreaming of all dreams, and obscurity will fly away from you.




Some things pertaining to dreaming:
Waking Life (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243017/)
The Dream That Must Be Interpreted, by Rumi (http://www.nekodreams.com/forum/souljuice/rumi/dream.html)

solomon levi
10-15-2012, 11:05 AM
Hi Corvidus! Sorry I haven't had much computer time until today.


Oops, sorry about that. my mistake. English is second language.


No problem. It's just that for me words are art/intentional/specific... I'm very conscious of the words I choose. :)




Ah yes, forgot you use the term 'control' differently than me. Ha, could say I forget we're dreaming separate dreams.
Perhaps I worded it incorrectly when I said the dreamer is the one in control of the dream, it was a statement of belief in free-will. It might have been better for me to say: The dreamer is the one with the freedom of choice in the dream, the one actively pursuing these choices while dreaming, and ultimately whether or not it is made manifest. This could be you, another intelligent consciousness or the All (pr Supreme Consciousness).


Well said. I relate to that. I only add that the dreamer can sacrifice his/her freedom of choice, which, for me,
is synonymous with identifying with the All/Supreme Consciousness.



But as for the term illusory “I”, is it really illusion once you recognize it for what it truly is?
When Supreme Consciousness manifests as a consciousness, there is first the realization that one exists. This is what I mean by 'Awakening'. Could also word it as the realization of Universal and Objective Truth, but in this sense it would be relative.
It is only after this recognition of individual existence that the expression of the 'I' came about.


Well, perhaps I have chosen poorly. Illusion is not quite right, only partially.
Some have said it this way:
"Ahamkara is said to take place within prakriti and has been considered to be the knot (granthi) that ties cit or pure consciousness (purusha) with acit or unconsciousness (prakriti). Cit-acit granthi is ahamkara. As the knot forms, a sense of “I” emerges, demarcating a clear boundary between “me” and the rest of the world by mistaking purusha with prakriti. From Samkhya’s perspective, ahamkara is necessary for individualization to take place and for bringing order, structure, and a focal point for consciousness to express."
source: http://living-flames.com/writings/the-mystery-of-the-i/

So, as a knot, it is temporary/illusory - it can be untied.
Comparatively, the string is real, existing as knot or no-knot; but the knot only exists when the string is knotted: the knot is not the source of the string,
but an appearance that may arise and pass away.
But the knot is very real for those who are knotted. I don't mean to deny that.
I've seen a cat hiss at its reflection in a mirror also. :)

Personally, I have searched for this "I" and found nothing but my own memories subjectively and willfully
knotted to give the appearance of a consistent linear individual - but this appearance is not real/permanent/objective.
But it is as real as any other conditioned "thing".
When we look closer at "things", we find out that a thing is actually a relationship between smaller "things", and so on...
dreams within dreams, illusions within illusions.



'Form before function' could easily be extended to 'and function before definition' (but just speculating on this extention).

What is an illusion in the first place?
Noun. A false idea or belief. A deceptive appearance or impression. A thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.

The 'illusory I' is only a false idea or understanding of the self, a self which deceives us through being wrongly interpreted by us. For me it exists nonetheless, similar to your wavelengths in relation to the flat-line or your many dolls. Indeed I see it as necessary for existence and the evolution of the soul to be possible. What is a soul if not an individual consciousness?


Yes, I think we agree. And as a crystal glass is shattered by a certain pitch or frequency, so too does the
ego only appear below a certain frequency.
For me, the words ego (or altered ego) and soul are different states/frequencies of consciousness.
In hebrew/kabbalah, they recognise various degrees/purities of soul and give them different names, the same way
Samkya philosophy recognises the evolutes of Prakriti.
From the previous source: "From the above, we can infer that there are at least two basic understandings, not necessarily mutually exclusive, of the “I-maker.”"
The author then goes on to explain the necessity of the I, and it's impediment to realisation.
In other words, the stepping stone and stumbling block are one and the same... alchemically, the stone the builders rejected has become the foundation stone.
Christianity: Jesus makes Simon-Peter the rock he will build his church upon, yet in another instance says to him,
"get thee behind me (or "hence" in some readings) Satan, for you are thinking as men think and not as God thinks."
Peter is both stumbling block/satan and foundation stone.
We could say the "illusion" of separation was necessary to realise Oneness. Or, Oneness appears as an illusion to the separate ego.
I don't mean to diminish or devalue the experience when I say "illusion" - only to signify a temporal nature.




However the senses are fallible; the mind wanders in and out of imagination much too readily; it catches hold of objective things and turns them into subjections; it distorts and muddies the dream. The mind—not the singular and profound feeling of 'I exist', but the psychological expressions of that 'I'—promotes false ideas of the self, that perpetual 'I exist' moment necessary to divide heaven and earth, or the waters from the waters. These false ideas of the self blind us from Universal and Objective Truth. Sure, men might be able to dissolve their mind and the 'I' and unite with Supreme Consciousness, but how long does that last? And for what purpose other than coming into the knowledge and understanding of Truth and then manifesting that Divine Truth here on earth does this dissolution serve?

How is it said? A death which results in the resurrection of life?


Yes, yes. I, too, align with that. Thus I speak of dreaming now - I used to speak of Oneness and non-duality.

http://www.swamij.com/images/prakriti.gif

Hopefully that is readable. This system shows the difference between self-awareness/individuation (Mahat or Buddhi)
and ego (Ahamkara) and mind (Manas) as different stages or planes/levels/frequencies. I resonate with it.
Perhaps you do too? So soul could be individuation/Buddhi but it is also a recording faculty/Manas, etc.




My newest interpretation of Hermes::p

It is the perfecter of our dreams.
Our dreams are vigorous when they are fixed.
But act prudently and with judgement in your dreaming, separate the vulgar from the philosophic dreams.
Dream for union with the Divine Dreamer, and Unite. Thus you will witness the dreaming of all dreams, and obscurity will fly away from you.

Some things pertaining to dreaming:
Waking Life (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243017/)
The Dream That Must Be Interpreted, by Rumi (http://www.nekodreams.com/forum/souljuice/rumi/dream.html)

I'm really liking that interpretation!
I've watched "Waking Life" several times. Great film.
And the Rumi poem is very appropriate!
Thank you for all your communications. :)

Purplexity
10-15-2012, 11:15 AM
In our dream, conscious or unconscious. Or consciously aware while submerged in unconsciousness, I find the beliefs we have acquired EG the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause will manifest as a means, a rational explanation for the spiritual phenomenons that occur. You were given dream coins, I am left eggs by this spiritual entity I have identified or has taken the identity of one of the characters my mind has consciously created and subconsciously grown.. EG When I was born Santa Clause existed because my parents said so, my brain was not looking for a debate whether or not that was true because I was sincerely intrigued by the concept of Saint Nicholas coming down your chimney or in this case breaking and entering and leaving presents under the Christmas tree, which is a by-product of our beliefs that it is morally correct to celebrate each year the death of one who's identity was famed and renowned for the deeds that were done in his life time, the dream. Reality being the dream, a dream. One among many, I depends where your focus lies. The processes of the brain could be distinguished as dreaming, from the electric impulses our brain sends from neuron to neuron to the formation of galaxies and destruction, obliteration of fellow entity that equally deserve an identification, EG Suns, Nebulas, Quasars, Pulsars and other Radio Galaxies each recognized by a form of intelligence and forces acted upon thus altering the universe embellishing it and making our worlds that we perceive more beautiful to witness, observe, attempt to comprehend. Mans comprehension is never whole unless you go beyond man and begin to expand your mind to the possibility that Man, the male species of the human race is just one race among many who have shared the same dream in different locations, the futures goal is to gather all intelligent life forms and sit them down in a meeting and say "Well this is how the world is going to be" "We can work together or you fuck off because we MAN are more intelligent even though intelligence is just like a scale and we will use terms that we have created and your terms mean nothing, you are inferior unless you share your wisdom in a way we can comprehend". A child with full blown autism still views and percieves the world including the universe, especially the entire universe as he or she is also sharing the dream we have physically been born in to, on the level that life may be one big dream and dreams within dreams are considered dreams or dreams while awake may be considered hallucinations or delusions, I think its safe to say our comprehension as individuals will never be complete unless we unite as a race and follow the teachings of christ and other religious, spiritual leaders who claimed to live the perfect example of way of living, good on them for taking initiative to set a standard.. We are not made for the 21st century, minds are mentally destroyed due to the stress and the World Wide Web offering Everything from Photos to Forums such as these, Infinate knowledge a few clicks away THE POWER -__- UGHH... The freedom is something new, its like "Wow we have all this freedom, Spoon feed plx" And so they do, we civilians are not supposed to take law into our own hands, though agents who were spoon fed and taught from the ground up, trained and catered for in many ways receive all they need to know through an ear piece, follow instructions that are given to them by someone else. I guess what I'm trying to say is we all have jobs to do, regardless of how fascinating this universe is. I know its like "PAUSE, I want to take in my surroundings and the world that I live in" But you can not because you are standing behind a label that instructs you to follow a set of instructions that were published to the masses to hold the system we have in place so total anarchy does not occur and the System is flawed big time, I don't know how or why but my intuition tells me politics and world affairs, illuminate if they are the boss then they need to fix and evolve, learn and conquer. If we are to ever accept who is really in charge of the people who take charge of segments, portions of the system EG Shop owners, Factory bosses, Bosses, Bosses of Bosses and so on, we need to hurry up and reach the space age and cater for everyone, thick or thin. Soldiers : " NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND" Mentality.. Government?? : "We dictate in a way that seems fair, but really we are just men who were lucky enough to fill these positions and that makes us the top ??% of the world, we are new age kings and the commoners will bow before us metaphorically through our influence, EG Cigarettes, alcohol, Casinos, Army, Police and so on..

If life is in a constant state of dream then something must distinguish the awake from dreaming, or is awake just a state of personal being, For instance you see a war between 1000 soldiers and another 1000 soldiers, From the sky they are moving around and are awake but personally they could be very tiered, experiencing visual, auditory hallucinations and still in their dream which is a collection of beliefs acquired over a life time, each individual experiences the symptoms of living, and these include incredible insight, shame, fear, truth and the opposite but I have experienced doctors who will say you are dreaming even though your wide awake, they turn on you to do their JOB.. The position they have worked for to stabalize their waking life, where they still dream, piss, shit, sleep, eat, drink like a normal human being they think themselves higher than one another, a pecking order that makes no sense. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that we are all equal yet the human race is unballanced by those who think "Well everyone else is doing it so I will do it to"

solomon levi
10-15-2012, 01:23 PM
IMO, "awake" is such a slow frequency that synchronicities are seen less often than when lucidly awake.
Synchronicities seem to make dreaming more apparent/obvious.