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shree_uday
10-16-2012, 02:45 AM
Hi,

Any one please advice, whats the alchemy name of Venetian Earth...

Regards
UDay

aris
10-16-2012, 01:40 PM
copper, salts of copper, and vitriol come to mind.
Do you have a source quote to put this 'Venetian Earth' into context?

Ghislain
10-16-2012, 06:35 PM
As with aris it is difficult to know what to look for without context, but I found this, which I
hope may be of help.

"Venetian Red is a natural earth containing clay tinted by iron oxide that is a warm red but with
cold red undertones, giving beautiful pink colors in tints with white and thinned applications.
Venetian red is obtained from iron ore deposits in the Veneto region, Italy."

Alchemy and chemistry

In alchemy, Caput Mortuum (alternately called nigredo) signified a useless substance left over from a
chemical operation such as sublimation and the epitome of decline and decay; alchemists represented this
residue with a stylized human skull, a literal death's head.

Caput mortuum was also sometimes used to mean crocus metallorum, i.e. brownish-red metallic
compounds such as crocus martis (ferrous sulphate), and crocus veneris (copper oxidule).

Caput mortuum (variously spelled caput mortum or caput mortem), also known as Cardinal purple, is the
name given to a purple variety of haematite iron oxide pigment, used in oil paints and paper dyes. It was a
very popular colour for painting the robes of religious figures and important personages (e.g. art patrons).

The name for this pigment may have come from the alchemical usage, since iron oxide (rust) is the useless
residue of oxidization. It was originally a byproduct of sulfuric acid manufacture during the 17th & 18th
centuries, and was possibly an early form of the copperas process used for the manufacture of Venetian
red and copperas red.

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caput_mortuum)

Ghislain

shree_uday
10-17-2012, 08:04 AM
Hi,

After an anxious surfing, Venetian Earth is called as "Borax". if you have any suggestions,please share,this will help us to confirm the actual name.

Regards
UDay

ghetto alchemist
10-17-2012, 01:51 PM
When I hear venetian earth........ I associate venus as being the bright and pure goddess.

The bright and pure earth.....in my mind that would be diamond or quartz crystal.

shree_uday
10-19-2012, 02:41 AM
Venetian earth is not a metal, its a solid substance... please help me.... venetian earth is borax or not...

Andro
10-19-2012, 07:16 AM
Is this like a recent trend or something, to ask questions without any context or any other info that can narrow down the options and help with getting an answer?

I might as well ask: "What is a Chechnyan burial?" Without providing the proper context, it would be quite difficult to find the answer. (it's a gang/mafia term - don't ask).

So - if you (or anyone else) really want an answer, more details would be helpful, like where you've come across this term, the context in which you've read it, what you need this subject for, etc...

Also, shree_uday, since you're new here, it may be a good idea to post an introduction (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?3-Introductions-%28new-members-go-here%29) of yourself :)

Welcome!

solomon levi
10-19-2012, 08:28 AM
It seems unclear - for some it meant white lead/oxide of lead;
for some it was alum or chalk.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2OH28vpzzMsC&pg=PT1095&lpg=PT1101&ots=6RekMjAkXj&dq=venetian+earth

Here is an example of context:
http://books.google.com/books?id=nntKEQVzHP0C&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=alchemy+venetian+earth&source=bl&ots=mPSPivG-YY&sig=746sr6XF0QL_-SbDapQHBdriCVo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tw2BUN2dO8a0ygGX1oH4Dg&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=alchemy%20venetian%20earth&f=false

Borax could very well be Venetian earth:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1366&bih=530&tbm=bks&q=alchemy+venetian+borax&oq=alchemy+venetian+borax&gs_l=serp.3...60200.63420.0.63760.10.10.0.0.0.0.14 0.970.8j2.10.0...0.0...1c.1.xHq7e8Qaqr0

shree_uday
10-20-2012, 03:20 AM
Dear All,

I am Shree Uday from India, having more impressed on BV and Paracelsus works... For a period research I got the Antimony Material and doing works based on BV words... By praising BV, Till now I didnt get failed in my works. By this year end I will release the Antimony medicines to this world... In the meantime I need all your supports for my research..

Here I quoted the venetian earth context...

Dry this Salt of Antimony, mix with it three parts of Venetian earth (called tripel),
and distil over strong fire. There will be sublimed first a white and then a red
spirit, which also becomes white. Rectify gently in a dry bath, and you have
another white oil distilled from Antimony,but it is by no means so good as
the former salt made of the red Tincture.

Shree Uday

shree_uday
10-20-2012, 03:39 AM
Another context for Venetian Borax... if we consider Venetian earth is borax in the sense.. then what is Venetian borax.. :confused:

Pound, together,
one part of Antimony till it becomes a
fine powder, and four parts of Venetian
borax ; melt in crucible till the
substances are in flux, when they will
become first yellow, and then white as
glass, for, under the continuous regimen
of the fire, the yellow here gives place
to the white, and a beautiful glass
results.

solomon levi
10-20-2012, 12:10 PM
Tripel may possibly be Tripoli:
http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=3237

Another source says tripoli is almost entirely silica:
page 605 on the right:
http://books.google.com/books?id=-QIoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR6&lpg=PR6&dq=alchemy+tripoli&source=bl&ots=4PgXsx45fM&sig=5BkqmS_8LU9Hk9yLSOSBsHUZeRE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0HaCUJuHC-mHywGy1YDYAg&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=alchemy%20tripoli&f=false


One might also consider that Venetian earth is simply Venus - not copper but the archetype
which is added to luna to make mercury; in which case it could be many things.

horticult
10-20-2012, 06:07 PM
sal albus - borax - Na2B4O7.10H2O

shree_uday
10-21-2012, 01:43 AM
Sol,

Acorrding to the meaning of Tripol, Silicon is not as in yellow color, in preparations we cant let it us for option to use this or that... my question is Venetian Borax and Venetian earth is same or having different meaning... ??

Kiorionis
10-21-2012, 01:43 PM
hi shree_uday and everyone else.

came across this while researching other things:


Albertus Magnus, in his treatise 'De alchymia', informs us that there were two kinds of sal ammoniac, a natural and an artificial. The natural was sometimes white, and sometimes red; the artificial was more useful to the chemist. He does not tell us how it was prepared, but he describes the method of subliming it, which can leave no doubt that it was real sal ammoniac. In the 'Opera mineralia' of Isaac Hollandus the elder, there is likewise a description of the mode of subliming sal ammoniac. Basil Valentine, in his 'Currus triumphalis antimonii', describes some of the peculiar properties of sal ammoniac in, if possible, a still less equivocal manner.

Egypt is the country where sal ammoniac was first manufactured, and from which Europe for many years was supplied with it. This commerce was first carried on by the Venetians, and afterwards by the Dutch.

Source (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Sal_Ammoniac)

the text from my copy of 'The Triumphal Chariot of Antimony' sounds similar to the processes you posted above:


Take one part of finely pulverized Antimony, and pulverized salt-armoniac, so called because it comes from Armenia; mix these together, place in a retort, and distill together. On the product of this distillation pour hot, distilled rain water, removing thereby every salt and acrid taste. Then the Antimony will be of a pure, brilliant, and feathery white. . .

solomon levi
10-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Sol,

Acorrding to the meaning of Tripol, Silicon is not as in yellow color, in preparations we cant let it us for option to use this or that... my question is Venetian Borax and Venetian earth is same or having different meaning... ??

Okay. I have no evidence. Experimentation will show it.
Borax is a flux. The microcosmic salt is also a flux I am interested in.
Should be interesting results. It's worth a try.

shree_uday
10-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Dears,

I need the meaning for the below listed words… can you please…

Caput mortuum.
crocus of Mars,
Clay of Sages
Regulus or Regulus of Antimony
Venetian earth/ Venetian Borax,
unburned clay
Crocus of iron."
" liver"(hepar),
lye
minera of Antimony,
rhubarb effects
Oil of juniper, or spirit of terebinth

shree_uday
10-28-2012, 07:43 AM
Hi,

Here what is latera, in some other editions, they mentioned "Tiles broken".. please confirm what is latera or tiles...

Pound together one pound of Antimony, half a pound of common salt, and five pounds of broken
latera ; place in retort and distil a yellow oil, when all the spirits will pass away.

"Take of Amimorty fb. j. Common Salt dryed,
tb. p. Tiles broken ; tb. v. Grind all together,
and put them into a Retort, whence diflil a Yellow
Oyl."

Regards
Uday

Awani
10-31-2012, 04:39 AM
shree_uday: please don't post same question again and again in many threads, sometimes an answer takes time to be generated, you just have to wait or do some googling. Alchemy Forums is not a service, but a community. Don't make others do your googling/reading work for you, especially when some things are easily found like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caput_mortuum

You might find some clues in these lists perhaps:

A Dictionary of Alchemical Substances and Processeses (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?284-A-Dictionary-of-Alchemical-Substances-and-Processeses)
Alchemy Electronic Dictionary (http://www.alchemylab.com/dictionary.htm)

rhubarb effects = maybe something to do with rubification, the making of the matter in the alchemical process from white to red?

I would also be so bold as to say that unburned clay is unburned clay.

:cool:

Way ahead of you Andro;) Oh, I see you have been mucking about with this already, so you're ahead of me... LOL!

guthrie
11-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Many of these are common terms in dictionaries etc, as already pointed out. Please read them first, since it'll mean more to you if you do.
Crocus of iron or copper or such usually means the oxide, as in flowers of copper. The regulus of antimony is a star shaped crystal of antimony and stuff, I can't recall what since it's a little outside my main period of interest. Lye is usually potassium hydroxide or carbonate, but may be used as a cover name depending on the text.


Dears,

I need the meaning for the below listed words… can you please…

Caput mortuum.
crocus of Mars,
Clay of Sages
Regulus or Regulus of Antimony
Venetian earth/ Venetian Borax,
unburned clay
Crocus of iron."
" liver"(hepar),
lye
minera of Antimony,
rhubarb effects
Oil of juniper, or spirit of terebinth