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solomon levi
11-03-2012, 11:55 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

I was thinking about relativity and how someone moving closer to the speed of light
would slow down in time - for ex. you fly in a rocket for 2 months and when you get back
to earth everyone is 100 years older (or dead) - just an example.
What if we want everyone to be younger?

And what does this say about aliens who can visit us? From when?

Just pondering...

Ghislain
11-04-2012, 12:31 AM
Also...as light travels at the speed of light, is there no time for light?

If that is the case then why does it take so long to get here?

For a light being time would stand still and if it does then do they see the same thing all the time with
nothing changing?

Ghislain

Ghislain
11-04-2012, 01:19 AM
This thread has opened up a whole lot of questions for me...but
I think the answers are a bit beyond my understanding. I'm sure
there would be Quantum Pysicists saying "well its quite obvious"
then going on to explain it in some language that is totally foreign
to me.

I was going to ask why it is that if anything tends to the speed of light (c)
and then its mass tends to infinity why is this not the case for a photon
which is described as an elementary particle? Why, when someone shines
a torch at me, am I not smacked in the face with an infinite mass.

So I first looked up Photon in the dictionary...its description must have
been written by a Politician.

Photon (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/photon?s=t)

usually considered as an elementary particle
that is its own antiparticle and that has zero
rest mass and charge and a spin of one.

So all bases covered...a Photon could be anything
you want, depending on what you would like to believe
it to be so it fits with the math.

I know that in science today time and space cannot be considered
separate and we have this space/time duality, but I think you could
add light to this and make it a time/space/light tertiary.
N.B. I wanted to say tertiarity but it doesnt appear to exist :(

There are many maybe's when it comes to time it would seem.

Can one travel at the speed of time?

Ghislain

Ghislain
11-04-2012, 01:42 AM
With relativity Einstein shows that time is relative to the observer, if this is the case could it be that time is
generated by the observer and thus as one travels faster one starts to catch up with the time one has already
generated.

http://genius.toucansurf.com/the-ripple-effect.jpg

Time may surround us like the ripples on a pond.

Ghislain

Primera Hebi
11-04-2012, 01:53 AM
The problem with the reverse is that you would be going back in time, which isn't permitted. You would create a paradox. As for extraterrestials, they COULD be visiting us from the current time. Either that or their technology is so advanced that they can somehow bypass the paradox issue and visit us from the future. Or, you have the almost crazy proposal that they are from a higher dimension which doesn't go by our linear time cycle (that is, if it is even linear at all). I'm no expert on time travel, but I do know almost for sure it is a one way road so there wouldn't be any way to go backward, or reverse.

solomon levi
11-04-2012, 09:41 PM
Also...as light travels at the speed of light, is there no time for light?

If that is the case then why does it take so long to get here?

For a light being time would stand still and if it does then do they see the same thing all the time with
nothing changing?

Ghislain

All this depends on whether the speed of light is a fixed quantity as science sees it now.
If so, these postulates sound accurate. Light, from its own perspective, does not move.
Do tachyons disrupt this view, or fit in somehow??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon

solomon levi
11-04-2012, 10:13 PM
This thread has opened up a whole lot of questions for me...but
I think the answers are a bit beyond my understanding. I'm sure
there would be Quantum Pysicists saying "well its quite obvious"
then going on to explain it in some language that is totally foreign
to me.

I was going to ask why it is that if anything tends to the speed of light (c)
and then its mass tends to infinity why is this not the case for a photon
which is described as an elementary particle? Why, when someone shines
a torch at me, am I not smacked in the face with an infinite mass.

So I first looked up Photon in the dictionary...its description must have
been written by a Politician.

Photon (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/photon?s=t)

usually considered as an elementary particle
that is its own antiparticle and that has zero
rest mass and charge and a spin of one.

So all bases covered...a Photon could be anything
you want, depending on what you would like to believe
it to be so it fits with the math.

I know that in science today time and space cannot be considered
separate and we have this space/time duality, but I think you could
add light to this and make it a time/space/light tertiary.
N.B. I wanted to say tertiarity but it doesnt appear to exist :(

There are many maybe's when it comes to time it would seem.

Can one travel at the speed of time?

Ghislain

I'm glad you ponder these things too.
I'm not sure what's true or not.
I mean it sounds like a big deal if something had infinite mass. But this must already be happening
on some level and it isn't affecting us too crazily. To me, there seems to be equilibrium everywhere
(until there's not??). Something balances out the infinite mass to make it appear as my 160 lb body,
a butterfly, a planet... doesn't it?
In the electromagnetic spectrum, wavelength and frequency seem to find an equilibrium.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJZiMZttvp_DhchwafxHSgEWKfnyVEW UR27tZloE2opk5lzX-b

But that is supposedly due to the speed of light being constant.
When we break the speed of sound, we get a sonic boom.
When we split atoms we get even greater disturbances.
When we submerge ourselves deeply under water we have pressures that can rip us apart.
Infinite mass... I imagine infinite anything equates to the source, the void - no thing.

solomon levi
11-04-2012, 10:55 PM
With relativity Einstein shows that time is relative to the observer, if this is the case could it be that time is
generated by the observer and thus as one travels faster one starts to catch up with the time one has already
generated.

Time may surround us like the ripples on a pond.

Ghislain

Yes. Basically that is true.
Time-space-light is what we are and is what surrounds us. It is what the Ouroboros/EM spectrum/wheel of time is composed of.
It is mercury-sulphur and salt.

Sometimes I see it as time being the warp and space as the woof/weft and light as the crossings (yes, think Jesus and the cross -
I am the light of the world)...

Definition of warp and woof:
The essential foundation or base of any structure or organization; from weaving, in which the warp — the threads that run lengthwise — and the woof — the threads that run across — make up the fabric.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShbNFKPITRhBIsQpTR1EK5jSRThigwb ZatiPpoUrHnEPx_TJzp

solomon levi
11-04-2012, 11:00 PM
The problem with the reverse is that you would be going back in time, which isn't permitted. You would create a paradox. As for extraterrestials, they COULD be visiting us from the current time. Either that or their technology is so advanced that they can somehow bypass the paradox issue and visit us from the future. Or, you have the almost crazy proposal that they are from a higher dimension which doesn't go by our linear time cycle (that is, if it is even linear at all). I'm no expert on time travel, but I do know almost for sure it is a one way road so there wouldn't be any way to go backward, or reverse.

Why not backward in time? Do you disagree a positron is an electron in negative time?

Primera Hebi
11-04-2012, 11:42 PM
Why not backward in time? Do you disagree a positron is an electron in negative time?

I don't believe it has anything to do with a positron. Its simply a paradox problem. For example, overused but still gets the point across, if you were to go back to your fathers/mothers time and stopped them from falling in love and whatnot, you wouldn't be here.

solomon levi
11-05-2012, 01:49 AM
I don't believe it has anything to do with a positron. Its simply a paradox problem. For example, overused but still gets the point across, if you were to go back to your fathers/mothers time and stopped them from falling in love and whatnot, you wouldn't be here.

A sensitive would follow the streambed which has already been carved unless
they intended to change something. It wouldn't be a "danger"/accident...
it must be intentional.
Being able to erase yourself is just one more possibility... not proof that backwards travel doesn't exist.

Being able to erase this timeline and pop/quantum leap to another is what magic is all about.
Without this, what would magic be?

Primera Hebi
11-05-2012, 02:18 AM
Well now that was simply an example. The big picture is that what has already happened is etched in stone. By going backward you would be fundamentally changing the stone, thus creating a new one. When and if you went back to the future, things would be completely different. Now, going to another timeline is a different story. That would, theoretically, be possible by all means since you may or may not have existed there. You would simply be an existence.

solomon levi
11-05-2012, 08:50 AM
Well now that was simply an example. The big picture is that what has already happened is etched in stone. By going backward you would be fundamentally changing the stone, thus creating a new one. When and if you went back to the future, things would be completely different. Now, going to another timeline is a different story. That would, theoretically, be possible by all means since you may or may not have existed there. You would simply be an existence.

Another big picture is that the universe is a flux, being created and destroyed thousands of times per second;
thus we can have a virgin birth at any moment; or visit any other part of the spectrum in a moment.

Ghislain
11-05-2012, 10:13 AM
There are a couple of ways to look at this...

If you look at the Causality section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon#Causality)of the Tachyon link Soloman posted, they talk of receiving a
message before it has been sent.

I can liken this to firing a rifle on a range...watching another group about 400m away I saw the
smoke exit their barrels and then heard the repeat some time after. Relatively speaking I knew the
vision of the event travelled faster than the sound. Now if the sound was the message sent and the
vision was the reception of the message then I received the message before it was sent, from my
perspective.

This is the same with something travelling faster than light...as radio waves travel at the speed of
light then theoretically if a message is sent faster than the speed of light then (from the receivers
perspective) the recipient would receive the message before it was sent.

Now in reality (scientific theory wise) as the speed of something increases time begins to slow and
stops at the speed of light and should go backwards at speeds faster than c. If this is the case then
the paradox may be avoided if the interaction with an event in the past caused a spur off - like in
back to the future - so that the traveller’s present reality still exists but another time line has been
created running parallel to it.

Tattoo today's date and time on your arm and promise yourself that if time travel is available in the
future that you will come and find yourself on that date and time...then look around :)

But if nothing happens it could mean you lost your arm some time in the future :(

Ghislain

Edit: Everything we see is a past event.