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vega33
11-07-2012, 05:13 AM
For another thread on this subject see: Spiritus Mundi (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi)
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This thread is unfinished, but after some deliberation I decided I would post the unfinished material to get feedback on whether to proceed further. I have reservations about going too far, as this is a public forum, but lets start with some well known facts and build from there. I do plan on returning to the spiritual implications of this research, but I want to choose words carefully.

Your thoughts/comments as always are appreciated (even "I agree", "I disagree", "nice post", etc).
--
Throughout alchemy runs the thread of The Living (al-Hayy). Pure spirit running through all, alchemy starts by positing that metals, plants and animals all grow and have life.

Life. The very word suggests the riddle of impermanence, as we meditate on the paradox between the German Leib as "body", and the proto Indo-European root *leip- meaning to remain or persevere. Today, we know the body of plants and animals to be a constantly changing system of cells, themselves made up of smaller things such as proteins or amino acids in association, and then onwards into the realm of atoms. We recognize our flesh bodies as something impermanent - the cells of the body are fully replaced on average every 7 years. Yet there is that which remains. Our mind remains (beyond what we normally name mind, pure consciousness was recognized as the basis of existence in the religions of India). Our spirit remains.

But what is this spirit, linked as its name suggests with the breath? We hear in alchemy of the spiritus vitae, and of the spiritus mundi - the spirit of life, and the world spirit. We hear of spirits being the only things which can cause changes in bodies. We are also assured that the spirits "are real influences, although they are physically almost immaterial or imponderable." (Fulcanelli, Alchemy and Spagyrics).

Fulcanelli writes (in Chemistry and Philosophy): "Under the action of the vibratory bombardment, the spirit, freed form the body, takes on, for our senses, physical qualities characteristic of its active phase: luminosity, brilliance, heat." By his definition then, the active phase of this spirit seems to be associated with what we now call the electromagnetic spectrum. Heat itself is electromagnetic radiation produced by the motion of atoms. We now know that bodies of living human beings emit infra-red radiation primarily in the 10 micrometer range. The unity of these different concepts associated with fire/spirit (light, heat, and electrochemical reactions) seems very instructive, and in no way takes away from the profundity of the connection of life/spirit with these phenomena. If anything, it deepens the connection and beckons us to explore further.

Science and natural observation has taught us that the earth is subjected to the impact of, on average 100 lightning strikes every second. This works out to over 8 million every day. The average bolt carries a current of 30,000 amps, and an energy of 500 million joules, into the ground. Multiplying that out, that's 50 billion joules of energy hitting the earth every second from lightning alone, to say nothing of the heat energy (infrared) and visible/invisible light energy hitting the earth.

Then there is the tremendous heat energy stored in the magma of the earth, and the superheated steam vents. This is all electromagnetic energy, merely on a different frequency to what we're used to dealing with. Some of it may be chaotic, wasted as it were. But not all of it. When these things are carefully considered, one might begin to see the earth in space as a gigantic battery, receiving the vast influx of energy from the sun and other sources of light/heat and charged ions, such as the solar winds.


All truly wise thoughts have been thought already thousands of times; but to make them truly ours, we must think them over again honestly, till they take root in our personal experience. -- Goethe

Let us think this over honestly, and make these thoughts part of our being. The association of light with the spirit, of course, has been a part of human culture since ancient Greek times, and most likely before that. Even in the Epic of Gilgamesh, we have evidence in the form of the description of the realm of the dead, which is called the House of Darkness. The Book of the Dead is known as the Book of Coming Forth by Day, of which some of the first words are: The forepaw of a lion, the forearm of a man, the primal ray of sun. Those who know of Fulcanelli's wily ways may find enjoyment in comparing this to panel 3 of series 3 of the Castle of Dampierre, among other plates.

In alchemical texts, we may remark the New Chemical Light (Sendivogius), the House of Light (Thomas Vaughan), the Light that Shines in Darkness, and many others. Hermes Trismegistus speaks of the Work of the Sun, the penultimate source of spirit, down here. And there are many alchemists who have been drawn to meditate on the nature of light as a kind of medium joining the realm of the Spirit to that of matter: Pernety and d'Espagnet being but an example. And there are many more references to fire, heat and regulation of the latter.

Even the symbols of Mercury have their relationship with light: the cock, herald of the dawn for example. There is Iris, Hermes' female counterpart, goddess of the rainbow. And in the various mystery schools there is the Three Great Lights: Sun, Moon, and Mercury, aka the blazing star.

Without further multiplying examples we may see that, if we accept the unity of what we normally term light with heat under the guise of the electromagnetic spectrum, then "regulation of the heat" as well as the instances of exclusion of visible light become explainable as the manipulation of this energy that is really one and the same. Alchemists recognized the unity of heat and light, under the auspices of electricity, long before Herschel discovered infra-red radiation (and it is significant that this man was a well known musician and astronomer -- alchemy after all has been known as the Art of Music).

Yet while this concept of the unity of heat and light is well known on an intellectual level, to know it on a physical or spiritual level is another matter. The first implication we realize is that heat and light can have musical harmonies between one another. Not only are there harmonies between the visible and invisible spectrums, but between different types of invisible EMR. There can be harmonics within the infra-red spectrum itself. And there can be induction occur at wavelengths which are multiples of the length of an object. This means that the right type of heat or light can allow the capturing of this energy in form, as occurs in an electrical conductor. And finally, the right frequency can act as a bridge or a catalyst to enable the creation of compounds, by creating a harmonic mean.

solomon levi
11-10-2012, 01:37 PM
Hi vega33.
I'm following with interest. :)

vega33
11-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Thanks Sol, I'm glad someone is. Apparently the other 70 odd viewers must have problems with their reply button @:^).

I suppose I will continue with the next installment.

alfr
11-10-2012, 07:20 PM
Hi vega33 very intresting i wait the next installment. very intersting thanks

alfr

solomon levi
11-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks Sol, I'm glad someone is. Apparently the other 70 odd viewers must have problems with their reply button @:^).

I suppose I will continue with the next installment.

Yeah, I don't know why people are so silent here.
I hypothesize that those who know don't talk and those who don't know don't talk
for a different reason. Sucks - all this no-talking. Where is the "forum" part of this forum?

Anyway, I consider myself more familiar than most with the EM spectrum and it's possible
association with "from this one thing through adaptation". I'm curious to hear, if you will say,
what practical applications you use. Every entity IS this spectrum of consciousness/light/frequency,
so the "inner" alchemy is fairly obvious and connections with magic/thaumaturgy... less so how
to apply some specifics to a flask.

------------------------------------------------------------
Off-topic spin-off thread created (regarding being silent or not in regards to what is posted): participation - reciprocity (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3246-participation-reciprocity&p=25648)

Nibiru
11-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Hi Vega33, I'm currently in a "recharging" mode as Androgynus put it so I'm afraid I don't have much to contribute at the moment but I would like to say thanks for continuing the SM discussion :)

Arrakis
11-12-2012, 04:02 AM
Thanks Vega33, anything concerning the Spiritus Mundi atracts my attention. Please do continue with more contributions about it. It would be great some details on how to catch and fix such Spirit.
Sorry for replaying with some delay, I'm not always able to go to the net, I guess many have the same problem.
Regards

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Thanks Sol, I'm glad someone is. Apparently the other 70 odd viewers must have problems with their reply button @:^).

I suppose I will continue with the next installment.

Thanks for your first installment, vega33. I just read it for the first time. To be honest, I used to check this forum regularly, perhaps once a day, but now check it perhaps once or twice a week.Everyone who has studied alchemy for some time has developed a certain perspective which seems to fit with the overall interpretation of what they have studied, although they likely remain open to other perspectives which fit the general theme and mold of what the ancients said. In the last few months, most of the discussion has seemed to drift away from my general perspective of what alchemy really is about, although this is no reflection on other people's perspectives. This is why I haven't hit the "reply" button for some time.

In terms of initiating a discussion, so much has already been said on these forums, that there seems little more to say unless people start to become a little more open and generous with their deeper thoughts and discoveries. We are in a modern age where incredible amounts of valuable information is freely being given across the world by generous souls through the Internet. Yet in this and other forums, we still have so many living in the dark ages, protecting their little secrets.

So we all wander around in this sea of mud, each selfishly clutching our pearls in our fists, saying nice little "hellos" to each other, talking about the weather or other trivial niceties, but never showing each other the little pieces of the greater puzzle that we all hold in our hands.

Are secrets being treasured as a form of power over others? Is power over others itself not defined as "evil"? If the Philosophers Stone can lead to spiritual development, shouldn't we all want to share that with each other? The sharing itself should be a reflection of spiritual development. The opposite is a regression.

I have long believed that very few, if any, have discovered the Stone. The "secrets" selfishly held by one might be common knowledge to others. The secrets themselves may have nothing to do with the preparation of the actual stone. Thus I suspect that most "secrets" that people have may be illusions. They may be neat little chemical oddities that belong to the field of chemistry, or general science.

So if we were to share our knowledge and understanding more openly, perhaps we will waste less time with trivia and focus more on a mutual development in the understanding of alchemy as the ancients taught.

Then we can open our fists and realize that what we had in our hands all along were not pearls after all, but just plain old calcium carbonate.

Illen

solomon levi
11-12-2012, 02:25 PM
In brief, the problem is, IMO, that everyone is searching for the first matter
instead of creating the nest which attracts the bird of Hermes.
The mercury, IMO, cannot be found - does not exist as an object - unless
it is coagulated by a proper nest. The initial subject is nesting material.
Nothing is extracted from the initial subject; rather the initial subject
extracts Philosophical Mercury from anything and nothing, because it is
everywhere.

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 02:46 PM
In brief, the problem is, IMO, that everyone is searching for the first matter
instead of creating the nest which attracts the bird of Hermes.
The mercury, IMO, cannot be found - does not exist as an object - unless
it is coagulated by a proper nest. The initial subject is nesting material.
Nothing is extracted from the initial subject; rather the initial subject
extracts Philosophical Mercury from anything and nothing, because it is
everywhere.

Yes, if the first matter is spiritus mundi, then you are right. But I think what everyone is looking for is the "other" first matter - the magnet used to catch the spiritus mundi. The trouble with alchemy is that there is no clear definition of terms. And each term can be represented by dozens of other terms. When anyone is discussing alchemy, one is never clear if the terms they are using is used in the correct sense - if there is a correct sense :-)

Illen

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 02:51 PM
Yes, if the first matter is spiritus mundi, then you are right. But I think what everyone is looking for is the "other" first matter - the magnet used to catch the spiritus mundi. The trouble with alchemy is that there is no clear definition of terms. And each term can be represented by dozens of other terms. When anyone is discussing alchemy, one is never clear if the terms they are using is used in the correct sense - if there is a correct sense :-)

Illen

"We are going to talk over together this evening many things. One does not listen to another actually. If you do listen, there is always a defence, there is always a resistance to anything that is said, to something new. There is an immediate reaction to resist because it might be disturbing. So, there is an art of listening: to listen to what is being said, not interpret what is being said to suit your own convenience, to your own traditional language, but to listen to the word, the meaning of that word, to see that we understand each other. To listen, one has to have not only a certain quality of attention but also a sense of affection, a sense of trying to understand what the other fellow is saying. Communication is possible at depth only when both of us are concerned about the same subject, about the same ideas, or concerned about a certain thing. Then we are both in communication with each other. But if you resist, as perhaps you are going to resist a great deal of what the speaker is going to say, then communication is not possible. One has to learn the art of listening. When you listen to music which you like, there is no resistance. You go with it, you shake your head, you clap your hands, you do all kinds of things to express your appreciation, your understanding of the quality of the music, and so on. There is no form of defence, no form of resistance; you are going with it; you are flowing with it. In the same way, kindly listen, not to be instructed, not to be told what to do, but to understand what is being said."
[J. Krishnamurti Mind Without Measure Talks in New Delhi 1st Public Talk 30th October, 1982 `The Root Cause of Confusion']

vega33
11-12-2012, 06:52 PM
Are secrets being treasured as a form of power over others? Is power over others itself not defined as "evil"? If the Philosophers Stone can lead to spiritual development, shouldn't we all want to share that with each other? The sharing itself should be a reflection of spiritual development. The opposite is a regression.

Adepts have been said to hold their secrets and their tongue until the right moment for revelation. Its not that there is "power over others", but that certain revelations are best received directly.

That said, I do think there needs to be more open communication and sharing on alchemy in the digital age. I suppose recent events on other forums serve as an amusing reminder of this fact, and should be demonstration enough ;-).

alfr
11-12-2012, 07:13 PM
Hi every body

Hi dear friend Illen A. Cluf I / we am in totality and absoluty agree with your post N 8 of this thread by always we are against about secret amd him consequential creation of the game of "power"
ignorant and arrogant etc and all realive and consequential "the moster" intellectual that the use of the secet lodge order etc to him use came creating
Yes sure vega33 so i hope by always also it must are all open is time !!! as i always i have think this is absolutly necessary it ( sse also about this orrible market a new alkaesk ? with pethacloridre of antimony invenction ? or not ? of aleillius and him very disgusting pubblicity of it in many forum see ....).

so vega 33 all here we wait (in this contest say above ) with great interest them sequel your post !

my best regars alfr

Krisztian
11-12-2012, 07:31 PM
. . . the first matter is spiritus mundi, . . . The trouble with alchemy is that there is no clear definition of terms. And each term can be represented by dozens of other terms. When anyone is discussing alchemy, one is never clear if the terms they are using is used in the correct sense - if there is a correct sense.

Illen A. Cluff, I think you summarized a significant difficulty in the Art, especially when one follows any one particular manuscript and/or has knowledge of many.

The remedy might come to be that without personal initiation(s) from self and/or alchemist-teacher, one perhaps cannot advance? Your thoughts?


. . . creating the nest which attracts the bird of Hermes.
The mercury, IMO, cannot be found - does not exist as an object - unless
it is coagulated by a proper nest. The initial subject is nesting material.

solomon levi, I believe this is another problem. Perhaps the nest, "the incubator", to "stabilize" long enough the spiritus mundi to actually evolve it forward in this World, is the alchemist himself, his energetically-magnetic body? (Not all humanoid bodies are 'prepared' to retain, attract large quantities enough. The energy levels of a body is often low, worn down, corrupted, etc.). I also believe there're other nests, as you say. Your thoughts?

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Adepts have been said to hold their secrets and their tongue until the right moment for revelation. Its not that there is "power over others", but that certain revelations are best received directly.

That said, I do think there needs to be more open communication and sharing on alchemy in the digital age. I suppose recent events on other forums serve as an amusing reminder of this fact, and should be demonstration enough ;-).

Hi vega33. Good point, but if ever there was a "right time" it seems to be now. Look at all the recent damage as a result of "secrets". One very young practitioner is dead and another is going through tremendous stress as a result of someone releasing his secret. As a result of other people holding onto their secrets, I have seen extreme anger, threats, confusion, and a complete disintegration of discussion. When I was referring to those who hold onto their secrets as a form of "power over others", I was not referring to the more refined and true Adepts, if there is such a thing. I was referring to the armloads of other self-styled "adepts", "masters", etc. - in other words, those who are looking for disciples who will "Oooh" and "aww" at their every word.

My comments were also intended as a means of support for your own generous contribution. It seems to say something new and in line with hermetic thought, and I look forward to the next installment.

Illen

solomon levi
11-12-2012, 09:03 PM
Yes, spiritus mundi Illen. :) (nice to see you around)
I believe it is SM because I've seen it appear inside an empty vacuum sealed flask.

Krisztian - I think the body is an athanoor in several ways. Besides its physical
composition, it is likely surrounded by nesting energy bodies of the EM spectrum,
something akin to this:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_KO43XN4NDN8r9T_qNEX4nZzfTTEct yB8bClV43Zcu63ZnPh8


I would imagine all living, and probably non-living, things have this spectrum, for anything
existing exists from the One Cause and is consciousness, and these dimensional enveloping
frequencies are the Jacob's Ladder from heaven/spirit to earth/matter.

Other nests are the earth:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRW1ut435CgU58dJR-1fkmlaMxIMle1iW3-Fe1Jqr2k8FCrrMOm

A joe cell:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUibQBRqKhcRuYx5ebNDi0t-Jv68x3HaBQwwpkHpeHlGR3Qgfe

orgone boxes:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJcQztUwfpxKgAaxAvhrqCKDJoWj-0iE5kQxzESjB09RVeO1Qj-w

labyrinths, spirals, eggs, geodes, tree rings, pearls...

I would consider also the secret fire which incubates our flask.
It is no common fire, nor chemical as in alkalis or acids. At least not for SM.

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 09:09 PM
Hi every body

Hi dear friend Illen A. Cluf I / we am in totality and absoluty agree with your post N 8 of this thread by always we are against about secret amd him consequential creation of the game of "power"
ignorant and arrogant etc and all realive and consequential "the moster" intellectual that the use of the secet lodge order etc to him use came creating
Yes sure vega33 so i hope by always also it must are all open is time !!! as i always i have think this is absolutly necessary it ( sse also about this orrible market a new alkaesk ? with pethacloridre of antimony invenction ? or not ? of aleillius and him very disgusting pubblicity of it in many forum see ....).

so vega 33 all here we wait (in this contest say above ) with great interest them sequel your post !

my best regars alfr

Hello my friend - so nice to hear from you again! I know you have always been against secrets, and you have been more than generous with your fascinating thoughts and sources. Much of your information has been of huge assistance to me, and I fully appreciate all your messages. I have also been opposed to secret "lodges", "clubs", or even religious institutions, or any organization or institution. One of my passions is looking at the real side of history that has influenced mankind to bring us to the level we are at today. There are huge contributions to mankind, and they almost NEVER come from institutions or organizations. Just about every major contribution which has helped humanity elevate a huge step is almost always from a single individual. Think of Plato, Aristotle, Da Vinci, Paracelsus, Robert Boyle, Isaac Newton, Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, Nikola Tesla (one of the humblest and least known contributors of all time and inventor of alternating current - he let Edison take all the glory), etc. That is the positive side of history - almost always individuals, usually acting on their own. In my studies, the negative side always involves institutions - groups of people who are almost always without exception corrupted by the egotists who are drawn to the power roles of group leadership, and who subsequently corrupt the goals and ideals of the founding member(s). It is a pattern that repeats over and over and over again throughout history.

Nobody needs to agree or disagree - these are just my own findings which I think are somewhat relevant to this discussion.

Illen

solomon levi
11-12-2012, 09:22 PM
If my posts are distracting from your thread vega33, let me know and I'll
paste it elsewhere. I just wanted to contribute something to those asking for
secrets. A good friend recently showed me this work and it is the most
significant alchemical manifestation I have witnessed. Fortunately, I was given
permission to write about it, but I still prefer a little discretion. But I have nearly
said everything I can say.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr-VYInTIWidOiZtYIO8X5I3i-KT4U2e5JgNNrA8TT1M62AuTIxQ

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 09:32 PM
Illen A. Cluff, I think you summarized a significant difficulty in the Art, especially when one follows any one particular manuscript and/or has knowledge of many.

The remedy might come to be that without personal initiation(s) from self and/or alchemist-teacher, one perhaps cannot advance? Your thoughts?


Hi Krisztian,

I agree that initiation, whether from self or other, is absolutely necessary for any type of personal development. However, I think that a key to group discussion is some common understanding of key concepts and terminology. The ancient alchemists deliberately introduced confusion into their writings in order to protect their secrets. Other writers, who may have had a complete different understanding of the alchemical process may have used the same terms and invented additional ones as synonyms for these terms. Thus we have numerous treatises, all using similar terms, but often for different matters or processes.So when someone discusses an alchemical issue, they may be using terms that they learned from the specific treatises that they have. Another person, knowing the same terms from a whole different set of treatises may disagree with the other person, thinking that they are both discussing the same meaning behind the terms.

On one to one discussion between a student and a master, or in self education that situation does not necessarily arise because the prime rule of teaching is to ensure understanding of key words and concepts. Without proper communication, teaching is not a possibility.

As you know, there are many different approaches to alchemy, and not all are necessarily legitimate, despite their ancient origin. Thus it is certain that some treatises misuse the meaning of alchemical terminology, especially as it relates to "first matter", "mercury", "sulfur", "salt", etc. I think that it is al the different understanding of the terms that causes much of the conflict in discussions.

Illen

vega33
11-12-2012, 09:34 PM
If my posts are distracting from your thread vega33, let me know and I'll
paste it elsewhere. I just wanted to contribute something to those asking for
secrets. A good friend recently showed me this work and it is the most
significant alchemical manifestation I have witnessed. Fortunately, I was given
permission to write about it, but I still prefer a little discretion. But I have nearly
said everything I can say.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQr-VYInTIWidOiZtYIO8X5I3i-KT4U2e5JgNNrA8TT1M62AuTIxQ

Actually your images that you posted recall to me the work of Hans Kayser, that great unsung proponent of universal harmony. I hope I can provide some information about how I see his work fitting in there in a later post. But no, discussion is welcomed and I will try to orient/spin it a little myself when I have the time.

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2012, 09:40 PM
Yes, spiritus mundi Illen. :) (nice to see you around)
I believe it is SM because I've seen it appear inside an empty vacuum sealed flask.



Hi Solomon, good to see you again as well! What a wonderful experience that must have been!! I have tried to attract SM in a closed flask for several months, but without any results so far. The logical, scientific side of my brain tells me that this is impossible, but the other side has seen so many unusual occurrences that it remains completely open-minded, except when harassed by my other side :-)

Can I ask if anything is attached to the vase (e.g. iron nail, copper coil, magnet, etc.).

thanks,
Illen

solomon levi
11-12-2012, 09:51 PM
Actually your images that you posted recall to me the work of Hans Kayser, that great unsung proponent of universal harmony. I hope I can provide some information about how I see his work fitting in there in a later post. But no, discussion is welcomed and I will try to orient/spin it a little myself when I have the time.

:) Great. This last image from Mutus Liber says what I have said and what I cannot say.

To the discussion on secrecy, I am not possessive or secretive. I just don't want to
give everything away (not that I know everything)... discovering is the fun and the
initiation. I am merely doing unto others as I would have done unto me. I value my
initiations above all knowledge. I would not rob anyone of this.
Also, giving everyone a recipe would not make nature and God plain to you, which is
the true Art. I feel what I have said in the spiritual section and elsewhere is far more
valuable than my practical contributions. People would truly benefit from recognising
these two paths as one.
In addition, I have witnessed first hand what alchemy can do to a person, and these
things are dangerous if one is not prepared. I am mainly speaking of dangers to one's
psychological, mental and emotional health, which of course affect the physical. Having
your reality deconstructed by unconditioned SM is very hard on the idea of the separate
self (which is what every individual believes themselves to be). Your whole life will be
turned upside-down. This has nothing to do with withholding secrets. Each persons
work and striving prepares them for what is the next step to come. That is what the
right timing means and the right proportions...

Andro
11-12-2012, 10:54 PM
1. My personal opinion is that Alchemical Initiation comes from within.
However, this fact does not diminish the importance of such online/forums discussions.
The value of such discussions, IMO, is not about providing 'recipes' or 'online initiations', but about 'opening our channels' for receiving such initiations ourselves.

2. I will do my best to (hopefully soon) continue posting about my own SM related insights, personal experiences and observations, for the sake of the above mentioned 'opening of channels' (including my own :))
Much experimentation has been going on since I last posted on the 'old' thread...
___________________________________________

Eventually, I would like to reach a point of Unification, showing/seeing how ALL aspects of Alchemy are related and 'governed' by the same 'Laws' & 'Principles',
no matter if Internal/External, Scientific/Artistic/ Philosophical, Alchemy/Archemy/Spagyrics, 'Ormus', Orgone, as well as many other definitions, applications and schools of thought.

Krisztian
11-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Hi Krisztian,

I agree that initiation, whether from self or other, is absolutely necessary for any type of personal development. However, I think that a key to group discussion is some common understanding of key concepts and terminology. The ancient alchemists deliberately introduced confusion into their writings in order to protect their secrets. Other writers, who may have had a complete different understanding of the alchemical process may have used the same terms and invented additional ones as synonyms for these terms. Thus we have numerous treatises, all using similar terms, but often for different matters or processes.So when someone discusses an alchemical issue, they may be using terms that they learned from the specific treatises that they have. Another person, knowing the same terms from a whole different set of treatises may disagree with the other person, thinking that they are both discussing the same meaning behind the terms.

On one to one discussion between a student and a master, or in self education that situation does not necessarily arise because the prime rule of teaching is to ensure understanding of key words and concepts. Without proper communication, teaching is not a possibility.

As you know, there are many different approaches to alchemy, and not all are necessarily legitimate, despite their ancient origin. Thus it is certain that some treatises misuse the meaning of alchemical terminology, especially as it relates to "first matter", "mercury", "sulfur", "salt", etc. I think that it is al the different understanding of the terms that causes much of the conflict in discussions.

Illen

Understood. I enjoy your comments.

solomon levi
11-12-2012, 11:17 PM
Hi Solomon, good to see you again as well! What a wonderful experience that must have been!! I have tried to attract SM in a closed flask for several months, but without any results so far. The logical, scientific side of my brain tells me that this is impossible, but the other side has seen so many unusual occurrences that it remains completely open-minded, except when harassed by my other side :-)

Can I ask if anything is attached to the vase (e.g. iron nail, copper coil, magnet, etc.).

thanks,
Illen

Not in this instance, but I understand those as viable/possible paths.
Nothing is attached to the flask.
Material envelopes/surrounds the flask on all sides and this serves a purpose.

thoth
11-12-2012, 11:29 PM
In brief, the problem is, IMO, that everyone is searching for the first matter
instead of creating the nest which attracts the bird of Hermes.
The mercury, IMO, cannot be found - does not exist as an object - unless
it is coagulated by a proper nest. The initial subject is nesting material.
Nothing is extracted from the initial subject; rather the initial subject
extracts Philosophical Mercury from anything and nothing, because it is
everywhere.

It would seem reasonable to think that if all living things automatically attract the PM/ SM, and that it sustains them, that maybe they could make an external artificial crystal nest to attract the SM

alfr
11-12-2012, 11:30 PM
hi very body

Dear friend Illen A. Cluf totally agree with your last post, unfortunately, we are no longer in the past where orders or lodges existed and were the real centers of true knowledge now the secret is that it develops gradually and only bearer of oppression, slavery is my domain and I Prometheus Group agape at this traditionalism of nowhere now the sole creator of simulacra of appearances but in essence perpetuates the worst individual there are always the opposite and always will contrapporemo totally and resolute and hard

(The only sense of the sacred secret made sense when it was added to our true circles and circles of light affiliation governed by true believers circles of light and wisdom with which many sages and scientists ricertcatori and you mentioned but those connections were interesting times where schools and centers of alchemical light and there were pulsed light emanating not now what are and what unfortunately must take note and act accordingly *)

So solomon with all sympathy and respect for yuo but the world is going to collapse every day and all can sse it every day and so-called secrets of the ruling class knows them well and use them badly and they justified and perhaps right precautions that perhaps made sense in the past when there were teachers true believers and true loggias of a true masonry healthy light or enlightened circles of the Rosicrucians but now I think it is more time attendismi it is time to share and work collectively all of us that we have a spiritual inspiration to try to save the situation and reverse the catastrophic spiral that now grips everyone and everything so it's now really really open to join and really try to achieve by joining forces a change of course if everything is still possible

my best regards alfr

(* And it is right or wrong or reason that all of us on this absurd maintenance of secrets and traditional wait-and their disastrous consequences both out in dissent but remained friendly and nicely acquaintances (as already told here in the past) environments derived from affiliation pink cross lulliani working on manuscripts and manuscripts derived Lullian of cristoforo Parisian summetta violet and lucidarius)


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;as we are doing for my dear friends who work with me in other places will put here the original translation Italian for easier reading of the text
cone stianno facendo dei mie cari amici che lavorano con me in altri ambienti mettero qui la traduzione originale italiana per facilitare la lettura del testo::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

salve a tutti


caro amico Illen A. Cluf condivido totalmente il tuo ultimo post purtroppo non siamo più nel passato dove ordini o logge esistevano ed erano dei veri centri di vera conoscenza ora il segreto è via via che si sviluppa e solo portatore di oppressione schiavitu dominio e io è il mio gruppo agape prometeo a questo tradizionalismo del nulla ormai solo creatore di simulacri di apparenze ma che nella sostanza perpetua il peggio dell'individuo ci i siamo sempre contrapposti e sempre ci contrapporremo in maniera totale e risoluta e dura

( l'unico senso sacrale del segreto aveva senso quando era inserito in veri cenacoli e affiliazione di luce cenacoli retti da veri adepti cenacoli di luce e saggezza con cui molti saggi e ricercatori e scienziati che hai menzionato avevano connessioni ma quei tempi interessanti dove le scuole e i centri di luce alchemici sussistevano e pulsavano emanando luce ora non cio sono più e di ciò purtroppo bisogna prenderne atto e agire di conseguenza * )

dunque solomon ( mi scuso per il ritardo alla risposta ma la stavo traducendo) con tutta la simpatia e il rispetto il mondo sta andando allo sfacelo ogni giorno di più e cio e palese e sotto gli occhi di tutti e i cosi detti segreti la casta dominante ben li conosce e male li usa e queste giustificate e forse giuste precauzioni che forse avevano un senso nel passato quando esistevano maestri veri adepti e logge vere di una vera massoneria sana di luce o cenacoli illuminati dei rosacroce ma ora secondo me non è più tempo di attendismi è ora di condividere ed operare collettivamente tutti noi che abbiamo una ispirazione spirituale per cercare di salvare il salvabile e invertire la spirale catastrofica che ormai attanaglia tutto e tutti dunque è ora veramente di unirsi veramente aprirsi e veramente cercare di realizzare unendo le forze un cambiamento ovviamente tutto ciò se sarà ancora possibile

( *ed è a torto o a ragione che tutti noi per questo assurdo mantenimento dei segreti e attendismo tradizionalista e le loro nefaste conseguenze sia usciti in dissidenza ma rimanendo amichevolmente e simpaticamente conoscenti (come già dicemmo qui nel passato) da ambienti di derivazione affiliazione rosa croce che lavoravano sui manoscritti lulliani e sui manoscritti di derivazione lulliana di cristoforo parigino summetta violetta e lucidarius etc etc)

I mie migliori saluti alfr

solomon levi
11-13-2012, 02:10 AM
Yes, Thoth. And a wo/man might even improve upon nature, combining
materials strategically and geometrically in such a way to concentrate SM.




So solomon with all sympathy and respect for yuo but the world is going to collapse every day and all can sse it every day and so-called secrets of the ruling class knows them well and use them badly and they justified and perhaps right precautions that perhaps made sense in the past when there were teachers true believers and true loggias of a true masonry healthy light or enlightened circles of the Rosicrucians but now I think it is more time attendismi it is time to share and work collectively all of us that we have a spiritual inspiration to try to save the situation and reverse the catastrophic spiral that now grips everyone and everything so it's now really really open to join and really try to achieve by joining forces a change of course if everything is still possible

my best regards alfr

(* And it is right or wrong or reason that all of us on this absurd maintenance of secrets and traditional wait-and their disastrous consequences both out in dissent but remained friendly and nicely acquaintances (as already told here in the past) environments derived from affiliation pink cross lulliani working on manuscripts and manuscripts derived Lullian of cristoforo Parisian summetta violet and lucidarius)


Hi Alfr.
You must not have read or understood my previous post where i explain
that I am not keeping secrets. I agree, keeping secrets is absurd. What about
keeping promises? What about the golden rule?
Regardless of your response, I keep my promises and friendships as the pupil of my eye.
Certainly you know the result of one's actions not being in accordance with their words...
It doesn't make for a good magician/alchemist. My word is all I have in this world.
When you can say that truthfully, perhaps the secrets will find you: as above, so below;
as below, so above. Do you ask me to break the principles of alchemy in order to tell others
about alchemy?? Then I'd be a hypocrite. With sympathy and respect you insult me :)
I'm not actually insulted, but you obviously don't realise that this is no game for me -
my life is alchemical. Don't ask me to be non-alchemical. You are your alchemist and your
reality is your flask; and I am mine... don't ask me to be your alchemist. I love you/myself
too much to mediate God for you. I write what I can. I push as hard as I can to write as much
as i can... I stretch, but I cannot break the principles. That is too much to ask. If you respect me
and yourself, you would not ask me to do this. If I were a younger/less wise version of myself,
I would say this is a sign that you are not ready for secrets. But I don't believe in signs anymore...
or in being ready. Instead i see spontaneous manifestation of spirit having nothing to do with
linear time and cause and effect.
I'll do something even greater than secrets... I'll ask spirit to reveal itself to you. I hope you ask the same. If it comes
to you, then you can see if you'll tell everyone or not.

Any true alchemist is a Rosicrucian, Christian, Philosopher... there needn't be a physical club or group or school
for this. A tree is known by its fruit. All physical schools are only efforts to reflect the true invisible school/brotherhood.

I am at peace, and so is my world. Nothing needs saving from my perspective. I follow the way because it is whole, not
to achieve anything. Perfection is already accomplished, but men do not see it. Maybe someday I'll want to exercise
my will and change the world?? But for now, I am content. I know everyone sees suffering. That's because they're looking for it.
They are familiar with it. Become familiar with spirit/heaven/God/What Is and you will see that. The world you look for is
superimposed upon the world that is... the world that is is already always perfect because there is no 'other' to know otherwise. :)
Is the spiral catastophic and gripping everyone? Or is everyone gripping the spiral and labelling it 'catastrophic'? The only "gripper"
I know is the mind/ego. The black phase will dissolve this for you when you truly want it. There is no secret I can tell you to make
this happen. (But apparently having me for a roommate is fairly effective. :)
Where is my compassion? My compassion is letting everyone find their own way and not thinking that I know better for anyone else.
I don't! I honestly don't. The way is never the same. We all come from One, yet we are each unique. What I write is what is happening
to me. I write for myself and just in case someone else finds it helpful. I don't write because i know better. I write to say, "This is one
possible manifestation of consciousness. If it appeals to you, maybe we can walk together for a while." I'm not really into changing
others or the world. I intend to raise the vibrations in my interactions with others - that's as far as I'm involved; very generic. Honestly,
there are some exceptions (quite frequently lately), but that is my initiation, and an agreement i make with spirit and whoever is involved.
I am a willing instrument, not a willful one. It's a fine line which i can't explain in this thread. Those familiar with the quintessence know
the difference.

This is getting to be a lengthy response so I'll finish.
Please try to understand that this is not about keeping secrets for me, but about keeping grace/spirit/love/balance. That's as good a
secret as any. If you find it disappointing, it's probably due to thinking about it instead of practicing it. If you practice it, I believe
you would want for nothing else. And what is the difference between that and the Stone? But reading about it isn't the same as seeing
it for yourself. In seeing, there is no effort towards practice.

alfr
11-13-2012, 02:59 AM
Hi solomon I understand and respect your opinion and your experience and your choices and your experiences that you have lived .
but instead my story and experience intense practice to the laboratory and subsequent experiences and developments and inteorizzazioni spiritual result, however, lead me rather to think and act differently and this is really thanks to the intense practice alchemical and spiritual that also for me is the true essence of life andmy fundamental finality

cordially alfr

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;original italian:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Hi solomon capisco e rispetto la tua opinione e il tuo vissuto e le tue scelte e le tue esperienze vissute
ma invece la mia storia ed esperienza intensa di pratica al laboratorio e conseguenti esperienze e sviluppi e interiozzazioni spirituali conseguenti comunque mi portano invece a pensarla ed ad agire veramente differentemente e ciò è proprio grazie alla pratica intensa alchemica e spirituale che anche per me è l'essenza della vita e vero scopo fondamentale

Cordialmente alfr

SolX
11-13-2012, 03:15 AM
greetings.

i have been following along with a great many peoples observations these last few months. i find what solomon levi is saying. correct. especialy the parts about understaning our selves first. thank you solomon levi for that tid bit of info. it is important.

solx
terrans can become lost

Illen A. Cluf
11-13-2012, 03:26 AM
Not in this instance, but I understand those as viable/possible paths.
Nothing is attached to the flask.
Material envelopes/surrounds the flask on all sides and this serves a purpose.

Thanks, Solomon. I have tried some of those other approaches to no avail. The Mutus Liber picture you indicated shows only air surrounding the flask, although the one in the athanor seems to be resting in a sand bath - it's hard to tell. Based on this picture, I assume that you must leave it in the sun rather than moonlight. the main object in this and other similar pictures that has always interested me most is the purpose of the funnel placed under the flask. This almost seems to imply that the "dew" is formed on the outside of the flask and it drips down into the funnel.

Illen

solomon levi
11-13-2012, 03:33 AM
I understand Alfr. Thank you.

Oh, I probably should have been more clear - when i said my friend gave me
permission to talk about it, I didn't mean every detail. I just wanted to encourage people
that these things do happen. It seems significant.

Illen A. Cluf
11-13-2012, 03:34 AM
hi very body

Dear friend Illen A. Cluf totally agree with your last post, unfortunately, we are no longer in the past where orders or lodges existed and were the real centers of true knowledge now the secret is that it develops gradually and only bearer of oppression, slavery is my domain and I Prometheus Group agape at this traditionalism of nowhere now the sole creator of simulacra of appearances but in essence perpetuates the worst individual there are always the opposite and always will contrapporemo totally and resolute and hard

(The only sense of the sacred secret made sense when it was added to our true circles and circles of light affiliation governed by true believers circles of light and wisdom with which many sages and scientists ricertcatori and you mentioned but those connections were interesting times where schools and centers of alchemical light and there were pulsed light emanating not now what are and what unfortunately must take note and act accordingly *)

Yes, I think that in the early days of the lodges, there was a real spirit of comradship and eagerness in "changing the world" for the better. It was in this spirit also, a few decades later that the Royal Society was born.

Illen

alfr
11-13-2012, 04:26 AM
Hi Illen A. Cluf " It was in this spirit also, a few decades later that the Royal Society was born".sure i am agree sure.
finality solomon I understand solomon thanks yes is claer the your finality thank

cordially alfr

III
11-13-2012, 06:16 AM
Dem secrets, all dem secrets.

There is only one meaningful thing, unknown or unnoticed, therefore secret, for each person to know at any given moment, the knowledge of what step to take. No matter how great and grand, spectacular or impressive masssive amounts of previously unknown informatiom, it isn't useful or utilizable. The only piece that matters to a person is the next step in the sequence FOR THEM. For that one they have to reach for and learn something new to them. It is the learning that matters, not the "answer".

vega33
11-13-2012, 01:20 PM
If there is one thing that is ubiquitous in this universe, other than water, it is light - otherwise known in modern parlance as electromagnetic radiation. This word encompasses a wide range of energies, larger than what we are used to when we say the word "light". Some parts of this spectrum we merely call "radiation", as if any type of thing we cannot see were not of the same type -- however, this division is wholly arbitrary and exists in language alone. It must be emphasized that even when we do not see light, it is there -- not just when it is of the wrong frequency band for our eyes to see, but when the light is moving in a much narrower area of space and does not spread out towards our eyes.

It is also important to remember what alchemists have said of light and its companion (heat) in the past. If we recall Fulcanelli saying that "luminosity, brilliance, heat" were "characteristics of the spirit in its active phase", then we can also state by the principle of equivalence that any process actuated by light, is (indirectly at least) actuated by spirit. The spirit is said to clothe itself in a body. Pernety, is especially vocal about light and spirits. Here is part of what he says about the latter:


Philosophers give the name of spirits, or spiritual natures, not only to immaterial beings, who can be known only by the intellect, such as angels and demons, but also to those which, although material, cannot be perceived by the senses because of their great tenuity. Pure air, or Ether, is of this nature, as are the influences of celestial bodies, Innate Fire, seminal, vital, vegetable spirits, etc. They are the ministers of Nature, who seems to act upon Matter only by means of them.

Pernety calls light "the vivifying spirit of the Universe". Here again, the term light is used next to spirit to indicate an equivalence. He then makes an important point:


One must not confound this spirit with the rays of the sun, since there are only the vehicle of it. It penetrates even to the center of the earth, when the sun is not on our horizon.

Let us recall again the idea of the earth as a giant battery - the electrical storms, sprites, 100 lightning strikes per second trying to equalize the charge between sky and ground; and the constant geothermal and volcanic activity going on. "Before matter began to receive its form," says Pernety, "God created Light; it was immediately diffused in matter, which served as the wick for its maintenance." Whether or not we choose to believe him literally, we may remark that this force of heat and light is indeed diffused everywhere. Our bodies put off weak coherent light in the visible spectrum, as well as the infra-red already discussed.

But so that there is no confusion, let us turn to an important issue: the problem of measurement.

Science has been utterly confused by the measurement problem since the birth of quantum physics. The double-slit experiment is the classic example of the measurement problem and the paradox between particle and wave. It is for this reason, as well as due to the experiments of people such as Max Planck, that light -- electromagnetic radiation -- is claimed to come in tiny packets known as "photons"... and yet, these same photons appear to pass through both slits at the same time, creating a diffraction pattern. What is less well known about this experiment is that not just photons and the larger electron exhibit this behaviour. You can find, even on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment), an account of atoms, and even molecules such as Buckyballs, have their own wave-like nature. "So experiments with electrons add confirmatory evidence to the view of Dirac that electrons, protons, neutrons, and even larger entities that are ordinarily called particles nevertheless have their own wave nature and even their own specific frequencies." (in section Interference of individual particles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment#Interference_of_individual_particl es))

It seems the quintessential problem: is matter tangible or intangible? How can a device made of tangible matter measure an intangible influence? Are there really little "particles" of light flying around in space like billiard balls, or is this merely a remarkably clever and persistent illusion based on the measurement problem? Relational quantum mechanics would seem to hint at the latter. We observe the world around us and have been told that it is solid matter because we can touch it, observe it, etc. The ground beneath our feet usually seems solid, and yet we rarely give pause to think about why this is so. As Carlos Castenada has pointed out, a great deal of time and energy has been invested in trying to persist the idea of solid objects and to lessen the extent that we think about the wave nature of matter. Others have gone so far as to label this tendency to the realm of the senses as materialism, and to call it "a magic circle":


The fact that human beings--continues Guenon--have come to conceive as ordinary and normal a life that is reduced to its lowest possibilities; and that that they identify as reality, and even as most eminent reality, whatever is tangible, visible, touchable and measurable--this is indeed the effect of an infatuation, of a sort of magic circle that has led to the atrophy and exclusion of the possibilities of every higher vision and sensibility. And the counterpart of this magic circle is a conception of history that assumes that the way in which man today regards things is sane and "normal", corresponding to a civilization that more than any other claims to be "enlightened" and free from superstition.

So it should be strongly noted that when we are dealing with "light" or "electromagnetism" in this series, we are not so much referring to "photons", "electrons", or any other particle that is posited to exist. In fact, many of these particles have never been observed or imaged directly due to their size. Their existence and physical characteristics are based on a need for models to predict accurately the qualities of matter. Some are leftovers from earlier physics models, such as the Bohr model of the atom with its solar nucleus and planetary electrons.

Indeed, it is useful in the hermetic domain, while accepting the existence of an external reality, to dispense with this idea of fixed, unchangeable "bodies". But if bodies are seen as changeable, what informs their constitution? We are essentially told the answer by hermetic thought is that spirits are the only things that can cause changes in bodies. These spirits include anything that is informed by the energy of the immaterial realm. "Pure air, or Ether" as Pernety puts it, is animated by the rays of the sun moon and fixed stars; these in turn may be animated by a still more subtle source until we reach the domain of pure energy.

Philosophical questions worth keeping in mind as we proceed with the upcoming installments: If only spirits cause changes in bodies, by what means do these changes take place? If we posit that immaterial energy/spirit can cause change in a material body, then we must admit a link uniting or joining them together: a mean. Contemplation of this concept in connection with Zeno's paradox leads us to the conclusion that in order for the spirit to cause motion in bodies, it must have a still point around which that motion occurs. This leads to the concept of the neutral point and the realm of magnetics.

Summary so far:
- Light and heat are part of one singular energy strata known as electromagnetic radiation.
- This energy has both a particle-like and wave-like nature, in keeping with the law of polarity
- This energy is ubiquitous and is distributed throughout all matter, heat being its most pervasive manifestation but also visible light.
- The measurement problem of quantum physics has revealed to us that not just small particles, but even so called "unchangeable" matter itself, has wave-like properties
- A large amount of time and energy is directed towards keeping people from focusing on these wave-like properties of matter, and to reinforce the idea of the solidity of objects. This concept of solidity is what prevents people from recognizing the energy dynamics at play in the various forms of transmutation.
- There is an electrical component (tangible) and a magnetic component (intangible) to this energy.
- We will see as we progress several possible explanations for biological transmutation that involve the ducting of energy to and from form via the mechanism of interplay between these two forces.
- We will look at orgone/chi as one particular movement of this same EM field, where coherence and environmental resonances become more important than field strength. The temperature differential experiment of Reich's will be shown to be due to the manipulation of the electromagnetic properties of matter to evolve a "beat frequency" between the organic and inorganic layers, which is then concentrated at the center of the device. Interestingly enough, one component of this may lie in the infra-red spectrum.

More to come over the upcoming weeks...

solomon levi
11-13-2012, 04:31 PM
Thanks, Solomon. I have tried some of those other approaches to no avail. The Mutus Liber picture you indicated shows only air surrounding the flask, although the one in the athanor seems to be resting in a sand bath - it's hard to tell. Based on this picture, I assume that you must leave it in the sun rather than moonlight. the main object in this and other similar pictures that has always interested me most is the purpose of the funnel placed under the flask. This almost seems to imply that the "dew" is formed on the outside of the flask and it drips down into the funnel.

Illen

I'm sorry. I only meant a particular feature in that image.
This secret has already been told here:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1998-Cones

and here:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/archive/index.php/t-1627.html

and here:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/archive/index.php/t-1589.html

"We started with the sophic cone that has been in discussion
recently on this board. We asked:

The sophic cone collects energy - positive
" " " attracts energy - positive
" " " collects orgone -negative
" " " attracts orgone -negative
" " " collects torsion -positive
" " " attracts torsion -positive
The sophic cone can be worn to enhance mental clarity -positive
-can be detrimental if worn too long -negative (it is protective)
-can be used to create protective field around Ormus -positive
-can be used to create Ormus -negative
So it would seem that the wizards knew what they were doing..."


and post 44 here:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1469-The-Stone-finally-solved/page5


So to simplify:
edit... this was simply an image of a triangle on top of a square but it disappeared...


The dew was inside the flask. The flask was in darkness, due to nesting/russian dolls/dream within a dream within a dream within a....

So with the mutus liber, I only meant to point to the phoenix and it's association/appearance
with the ben ben stone/pyramid/cone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benben
IMO, you should not mis-take the sun's rays literally.
According to alchemists, the earth has a sun in its center.
I have associated the earth's composition with nesting.
An athanoor is an oven/furnace.
Perhaps we should not assume a furnace requires an external fire.
The athanoor/nest makes its own fire due to its composition, just like the earth does.
Visit the interior of the earth and in RECTifying you shall find the hidden/occult stone.
I would like to suggest that a proper athanoor RECTIFIES.
Hidden = Atum, the hidden one (referring to the ben ben stone link)
I've capitalised RECT in relation to this thread on complementarity and RIGHT angles,
which are always found when electric and magnetic waves associate in the EM spectrum:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3206-opposites-or-compliments

this link has been shared a few times already:
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/pyramids.htm

(warning - ranting ahead)
I hope I have made my point that secrets have already been shared for those who can see and hear.
(not to Illen specifically).
Consider:
γενεὰ πονηρὰ καὶ μοιχαλὶς σημεῖον ἐπιζητεῖ, καὶ σημεῖον οὐ δοθήσεται αὐτῇ εἰ μὴ τὸ σημεῖον Ἰωνᾶ. καὶ καταλιπὼν αὐτοὺς ἀπῆλθεν.
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. - Matt 16:4

I am not being preachy. Look at the sign!
And which of you have learned Kabbalah as the alchemists have urged?
How many have studied greek and hebrew as Fulcanelli and the author of the Fama insisted?

Quote me:
"I don't want to emphasize at all the gematria - it's not like hard science, but it is interesting and
a true method of communication. For example, when the Fama and Confessio of the Rosicrucians
are directed to "the erudite", that is for people versed in the old languages, and especially greek
and hebrew gematria, of which those documents are overflowing with."

...as is the bible full of secrets for a kabbalist.
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2573-lemnian-earth
in particular, post 4 on asherah/obelisks
Ashtoreth is Venus for those who can hear. And Venus with a moon on top makes mercury.

Back to kabbalah, which is often translated as "receiving". The emphasis is on the receiver!
When the student is ready, the teacher/teaching appears. Secrets are all over. Receive them!

Back to the sign of Jonah and kabbalah:
σημεῖον, σημείου, τό (σημαίνω (or σῆμα)), from Aeschylus and Herodotus down, Hebrew אות, a sign, mark, token;

A kabbalist would recognise what I've mentioned recently from Plato on soma/sema, what I've said elsewhere
about AVT and its relation to AVR/light which this thread is about, and hebrew letter-numbers which are called
autiot (plural), aut (singular) and what Fulcanelli said about the seal/sign and what I said in Lemnian earth about
the sealed/signed epiphany cakes and Jesus giving the sign of Jonah, which every kabbalist knows means "fish"
which every alchemist knows is the sign for mercury... even the letter T/Tav means "mark, sign, cross" and is
related to elemental earth and saturn kabbalistically...
Cross is crucible and tree and athanoor/hollow oak/bird's nest...
there is an eagle at the top of the tree/cross and a serpent/dragon at the hollow bottom and they are two
manifestations of one root/one thing, as are all polarities/complements - male and female, sun and moon, mercury
and sulphur, electricity and magnetism...

(warning - more ranting ahead)
So (to everyone) please don't blame others for not sharing secrets. Blame yourself for not receiving them.
Kabbalah is receiving. AL KHEM is "the black" which absorbs/receives light. You are the alchemist. No one
else is your alchemist. No one is responsible for your life but you. You are withholding the secrets from yourself
by not educating yourself in alchemy and kabbalah as philosophers have instructed (not to mention geometry,
music, art, nature, etc.) You are seeing the glass half empty instead of half full. Sharing has been done all over
this forum - perhaps it is time for you to work on hearing/receiving what has already been said.

And if you can hear me, I'll tell you now that no one who is not responsible for their life can receive the stone
with blame in your heart.
You want secrets... prepare your mind and heart for them.
You want a good crop... prepare the soil.
You want the Shekinah/bride/Presence... prepare the bridal chamber.
You want a phoenix... build a nest.

You really don't know this?! Secrets keep themselves. No one is keeping anything from you.
Alchemy protects itself from those who cannot receive it. The alchemists told you to ask
God, not men, for grace. You are not doing alchemy when you blame others, thus the secrets
keep themselves because of YOU not living alchemically; you are the soil. When you become good
soil, everyone you meet will tell you secrets and you will be amazed and overwhelmed. Everyone is
already telling you secrets all the time. You're just not listening.
I've said this a million times and you haven't heard it (if you're still asking for secrets)...
the stone the builders rejected.... the kingdom of heaven is before you, but men do not see it....
prima materia is everywhere... non-duality... the world is already perfect and doesn't need changing... etc, etc.
I'll keep saying it... doesn't mean it will be heard. It will be especially difficult to hear if you are searching
for matters and recipes. This is incredibly ironic that people look for a recipe for 'everywhere'.

Forgive me.

solomon levi
11-13-2012, 05:55 PM
Dem secrets, all dem secrets.

There is only one meaningful thing, unknown or unnoticed, therefore secret, for each person to know at any given moment, the knowledge of what step to take. No matter how great and grand, spectacular or impressive masssive amounts of previously unknown informatiom, it isn't useful or utilizable. The only piece that matters to a person is the next step in the sequence FOR THEM. For that one they have to reach for and learn something new to them. It is the learning that matters, not the "answer".

Precisely. So when someone asks someone else for secrets, they are saying:
"know me well enough to suggest my next step and that which is relevant to me only."
"distill everything according to me and chunk it to my size so I can hear."
It's not impossible...
But it'd be easier for each of us to do this for ourselves.
In some cases/relationships, it is impossible unless the relationship evolves.
A sensitive can do it without much trouble - these impressions are popping into
our heads all the time - we just have to notice them and pay attention.
But the sensitive is like water/mercury/spirit and they may just as easily
dissolve you than answer your conditioned question. :)

horticult
11-13-2012, 07:00 PM
ahahaha
sol rulez!!!

Illen A. Cluf
11-13-2012, 10:23 PM
I'm sorry. I only meant a particular feature in that image.
This secret has already been told here:


Thanks again, Solomon. However, to be frank, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As I've said many times, it's better to say nothing than to try to confuse even more. The old alchemists have already done enough confusing. No personal offense intended, but in my opinion, interpreting confusing theories in even more confusing terms only adds to the overall confusion. It provides no clarity whatsoever.

Many state that they have given the secret. If I was to follow in detail everything said by each person on this forum, from one thread to another, I would end up more confused than ever, since not everyone here is being sincere. It takes huge effort to wade through metaphors, symbols, etc. and research each one in detail, because any one symbol can have a multitude of meanings.

I wasn't really asking anyone to spell out their secrets. I was only asking people to be more clear and concise and consistent in what they are trying to convey. Remember the story of Babel?

Anyways, I know you mean well, and I thank you for that.

Illen

solomon levi
11-14-2012, 02:30 AM
Thanks again, Solomon. However, to be frank, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As I've said many times, it's better to say nothing than to try to confuse even more. The old alchemists have already done enough confusing. No personal offense intended, but in my opinion, interpreting confusing theories in even more confusing terms only adds to the overall confusion. It provides no clarity whatsoever.

Many state that they have given the secret. If I was to follow in detail everything said by each person on this forum, from one thread to another, I would end up more confused than ever, since not everyone here is being sincere. It takes huge effort to wade through metaphors, symbols, etc. and research each one in detail, because any one symbol can have a multitude of meanings.

I wasn't really asking anyone to spell out their secrets. I was only asking people to be more clear and concise and consistent in what they are trying to convey. Remember the story of Babel?

Anyways, I know you mean well, and I thank you for that.

Illen

Why would you ask me about iron nails, copper coils and magnets if you don't understand this?
Are you groping in the dark or do you know why you're practicing what you practice?
(not a rhetorical question or insult - honestly asking)
The cone does the same as the coil and the magnet. This is all torsion/circulation/fire/prime mover.
So how does one cage this bird? Do you see?

Illen A. Cluf
11-14-2012, 03:26 AM
Why would you ask me about iron nails, copper coils and magnets if you don't understand this?
Are you groping in the dark or do you know why you're practicing what you practice?
(not a rhetorical question or insult - honestly asking)
The cone does the same as the coil and the magnet. This is all torsion/circulation/fire/prime mover.
So how does one cage this bird? Do you see?

Every alchemical experiment is a groping in the dark until the Stone has been achieved, but my experiment is based on what I have researched. There is a specific instruction to attach an iron nail to a flask and point it due north. Another improvement is to wrap copper wire around the iron nail. The flask itself must be sealed. Not a drop of liquid formed in the flask after several months.

Now I understand what you were saying! I have been under enormous stress at work over the last week (particularly today) and I must be partially brain dead as a result :-) You've given me some interesting new ideas to try out.

III
11-14-2012, 04:22 AM
Thanks again, Solomon. However, to be frank, I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As I've said many times, it's better to say nothing than to try to confuse even more. The old alchemists have already done enough confusing. No personal offense intended, but in my opinion, interpreting confusing theories in even more confusing terms only adds to the overall confusion. It provides no clarity whatsoever.

Many state that they have given the secret. If I was to follow in detail everything said by each person on this forum, from one thread to another, I would end up more confused than ever, since not everyone here is being sincere. It takes huge effort to wade through metaphors, symbols, etc. and research each one in detail, because any one symbol can have a multitude of meanings.

I wasn't really asking anyone to spell out their secrets. I was only asking people to be more clear and concise and consistent in what they are trying to convey. Remember the story of Babel?

Anyways, I know you mean well, and I thank you for that.

Illen


Many state that they have given the secret.

Perhaps you are confused. There is no "the" secret. However there are great secrets without limits, if you are in the place to desire and understand the specific secret answer given.

As I know a variety of Tantric Alchemies. Perhaps I can offer you some of the secrets of Tantric Alchemy, when you know what one you need to hear and are in the right place to hear it.

Strangers walk up to me or sit down next to me and occasionally ask a real question that gets them a real answer. Thusly are the great secrets given out, used in that moment in which they are specific and important and forgotten after that as it no longer matters.

Illen A. Cluf
11-14-2012, 12:18 PM
Perhaps you are confused. There is no "the" secret.

Of course there is no "the secret". I was saying what others said about alchemy. There are far superior paths to spiritual enlightenment than alchemy. I see alchemy as a real roadblock to spiritual development. It takes most people decades to even begin to see the light when studying alchemy, while it can be obtained much more readily when pursuing other approaches. Thus alchemy seems more geared towards a physical pursuit than a spiritual pursuit.


As I know a variety of Tantric Alchemies. Perhaps I can offer you some of the secrets of Tantric Alchemy, when you know what one you need to hear and are in the right place to hear it. I'm not familiar with tantric alchemies. Can you tell me more about it? Thanks.

Illen

___________________________________

This discussion can be continued on a more specified thread: Tantric Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3261-Tantric-Alchemy)

solomon levi
11-14-2012, 08:09 PM
You know, the seven chakra system and endocrine glands are directly related
to Hertzian, infrared, visible light, UV, x-ray, gamma and cosmic radiation.
Tantra, and everything, deals with the EM spectrum.
So this thread would be very broad, or we should just keep it about what vega33
wants to share.

Loved the last installment vega33. Wanted to make some correlations to Castaneda
and the Eagle's emanations but the site I used to quote from, prismagems, has
altered the text and i don't like it - I used to notice only they changed the Eagle to
"indescribable force" or something. But now they also changed first attention to
"social" something and it's just sad. Castaneda was a master of syntax. What a shame.

Arrakis
11-15-2012, 03:00 AM
Hello,
I think very much like Illen, those long posts confuse more than help. I have asked many times what two salts have to be mixed up to make the Magnet for the SM, but no one wants to say these two simple words.
Alchemy is alot more complex than just the Magnet, so it would not be "unveiled" by simply naming these two matters.

Andro
11-15-2012, 03:47 AM
I have asked many times what two salts have to be mixed up to make the Magnet for the SM, but no one wants to say these two simple words.
Alchemy is a lot more complex than just the Magnet, so it would not be "unveiled" by simply naming these two matters.

Hi Arrakis,

I was under the impression that you have already received several answers to this question.

You may have received different answers in different contexts, such as the 'Cyliani Salts' (in the 'Celestial Agriculture' thread) as well as the combination of Sea Salt & Nitre (as suggested by Roger Guasco and others).

There are a few Ph. Magnet related threads & posts on these forums. I believe some of those salt(s)/magnet(s) questions have already been addressed a few times, like for example Philosophical Magnets for Capturing the Secret Fire (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?42-Philosophical-Magnets-for-Capturing-the-Secret-Fire).

This could also provide a fresh perspective:


Alchemical treaties are written for those who already have this vision of the Nature and of the Life.
They can propose thus directly "laboratory techniques", "paths", materials, distillations, calcinations etc.
But they never look in clearly the necessary method allowing to change our vision of the World.
I consider (but it is my personal vision, as all the rest of what I write or explain, being nothing by definition the Absolute Truth) that the most important both things in alchemy are to understand what the Spiritus Mundi is and what the Magnet of the Wise is.

The presentation which I make of the alchemy takes as support Spiritus Mundi. Simply because from my point of view, it is what was the least described and explained in alchemical texts, but also because by understanding the mechanisms of Spiritus Mundi, we understand de facto what is the Magnet of the Wise.

The Magnet of the Wise is a state of the material. It is not A material. It is not THE material.

The treaties of alchemy explain it only very rarely. It is what makes that everybody is in search of a material or of a set of materials which can serve in Great Work. It is for it that everybody "fights" by saying that there is only one material and that the ideas of the others are necessarily in the error. It is a non-problem. It is moreover for me the biggest trap which the alchemical authors left us. While the key is to understand the changes of states of the material. And by understanding them, we manage to perceive what can be the Magnet of the Wise. It is for it that I consider Aureae Catenae Homeri as one of the biggest treaties of alchemy. Because he insists enormously on the changes of states of the material, on the law of the mediums which governs the passage from an element to the other one.

Other works consider that the reader has already understood what is the Magnet of the Wise, that it is not the material which counts, but its qualities, its changes of states in such or such condition.

If you content with reading and with analyzing treaties (that it is the one of Artephius, those of Fulcanelli, Valois, Philalèthe etc.) As if they indicated first and foremost finding THE material and if it is then enough to apply their "recipe", you will not go farther than of High Spagyric. Simply because you will miss " the spirit ", Spiritus Mundi. You will believe to have the magnet of the Wise by focusing you on the various resultant materials that you will have obtained. While what counts, it is the state in which is the material which you work. Any material can potentially bring to the Philosopher's stone. Some are easier than the others to work because they have characteristics, qualities more or less close to the state necessary to obtain the Magnet of the Wise. It is only the capacity of capturing Spiritus Mundi that has the worked material which determines if we stay in Spagyric or if we really pass into alchemy.

Also, Vega33 has already written about the importance of salts:


I think this is why salt was considered so important by the ancients - it is a joining of two differently polarized materials - it is the androgyne, and so it absorbs the water, or rather, the electric charges of the materials attempt to come to an equilibrium, including the positive hydrogen and negative oxygen.

It seems as if it is only in this clay/silt, or these supersaturated polar solutions, that things are dense enough for the two streams to join so that the S.'.M.'. can be trapped in form.


Forgetting about how chemistry produces salts, we must ask ourselves how nature produces the salts, these keys to art and nature? We should answer that they are children born of Mercury, literally and figuratively. First of all the fixed matter must be dissolved in the water, then the volatile (the air) dissolved in it as well. For is it not written that one cannot proceed from one extreme to another except via the mean? The fixed and the volatile unite only by means of the mediator, the blood of nature, the water. And the energy transmitted to the water by the celestial fire or light governs the movements of these matters, which further governs in what relation the matter is drawn together.

Maybe as he continues this thread, he will touch more upon the subject of the salts, which seems to interest you.

There isn't one single salt or combination of salts that can serve as Ph. Magnet/Matrix/Support for Spiritus Mundi. The ways of attraction are many.

I hope Vega33 will eventually address the subject of Salts and their Polarities.

vega33
11-15-2012, 07:12 PM
Loved the last installment vega33. Wanted to make some correlations to Castaneda and the Eagle's emanations but the site I used to quote from, prismagems, has altered the text and i don't like it - I used to notice only they changed the Eagle to "indescribable force" or something. But now they also changed first attention to "social" something and it's just sad. Castaneda was a master of syntax. What a shame.

Thanks Sol. Yes, Castenada was certainly a master of syntax, and I like the idea about the Eagle's emanations. In a way the Eagle could be viewed in a way similar to the Sun in our local system. One idea that relates would be that for those who don't develop the light-body while incarnate as a vehicle for consciousness, when the consciousness withdraws from the body at death it lacks the ability to remain individuated from the other consciousness-light-threads out there.

Thus transmigration occurs as the consciousness moves in the realm of the magnetic light and eventually loses its individuality into the all. The Eagle devours it, so to speak. There is the idea in some texts I have come across of all light from the sun returning to the Sun, or rather of there being a two-way flow going back out into space. Something that makes sense otherwise we would not be able to see the Earth from space. Remembering the idea that light/heat is a manifestation of spirit in its active phase, this suggests the idea of consciousness re-uniting with itself, like droplets of mercury (light joining with light) as it streams from the earth back out into space via the medium of the shining-air (ether). The Egyptians had the idea that when the soul withdrew from the body, it would either be devoured by the Makara, or become a star in the firmament (if it had lived a "pure"/"good" life, that is, if it had not ensnared itself so fully with matter that it failed to develop the glorious body). Its the same concept and I believe this is why the priests would read and think-aloud the ministrations to the dying (eg the Tibetan book of the dead), or why the pyramid texts were left in tombs eventually.

It's my belief (more and more like a knowledge/inner sensing and a firm conviction) that much of the strangeness of the Mysteries and the perennial wisdom can be explained by this secret fear of the disintegration of the vehicle of consciousness after death, and the attempt to build a vehicle to journey outward while still living. They used to call such people, in more modern initiatory traditions (but pre-Lucas, if I remember correctly), skywalkers. Perhaps we can go into that in a bit more depth eventually, or I may spin off another thread if it ends up becoming too involved a discussion.

Arrakis
11-16-2012, 04:33 AM
Thanks Androgynus. Yes it's true, I received several answers to this question, but I meant not direct answers, ate least I felt I was not answered in a precise, clear and simple way. Sorry if I seem demanding, it is not my intention, my aim is to go to the point.
I have just made my contribution about this subject in the 'Celestial Agriculture' thread, it might not be alot but it is the least I can do in trying to add more in to this essential point of the Great Work.
Indeed the ways to atract the SM are many, but I have no doubt that the material support to fix it is a salt.
Regards,
Arakis

vega33
11-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Also, Vega33 has already written about the importance of salts:

Maybe as he continues this thread, he will touch more upon the subject of the salts, which seems to interest you.

There isn't one single salt or combination of salts that can serve as Ph. Magnet/Matrix/Support for Spiritus Mundi. The ways of attraction are many.

I hope Vega33 will eventually address the subject of Salts and their Polarities.

Well, its funny you should mention that. This research (http://www.rexresearch.com/parrpyr/parrpyram.htm) of Joe Parr was a big clue for me, as was the work of von Welling. The only problem with the latter is that the useful information in his work is all mixed in with biblical speculation and some areas where philosophical/diplomatic language are heavily used. However, he is not the only one to speak of a "celestial salt". To Von Welling, terrestrial salt was the mean (or means) through which water and "oily fire, ie sulphur" could be united. He also said that "the beginning and end of all things is salt, and that the mother of this salt is water". Further, this ur-substance of water has been called fire at its heart not only by von Welling (who also calls this fire at the heart of water "salt", not just to be confusing but because technically it is), but by many other alchemists.

This is related in to the subject of EM because salt disassociates in the air into positive and negative ions, something which when found in proper balance is a balm to human life (just ask anyone who's been to the seashore). When the salt "disassociates", for example common NaCl, it is into two separate entities: a fixed (Na+) and a volatile (Cl-). These are held together when in the terrestrial form by an ionic bond containing a great deal of energy, usually formed when the water (matrix and mother of salt) is gradually driven off, which allows salt's parts to unite gradually. So even without looking at anything mystical or which goes beyond the bounds of chemistry, salt is quite an interesting, admirable material. It is also known to weaken metallic bonds, as for instance in the case of ships made of iron/steel such as battleships, whose components used to become quite brittle in contact with the air. One could of course see in this activity, connected with electrolysis/electrochemistry, a connection with the idea of dissolving metal "like ice in water" as the metaphor goes.

I would continue, but its quarter past 5 in the morning (there is something to be said about my erratic sleep times :P). I will definitely try to get into the details of salt and its polarity more later in the thread. But I should also point out that in its solid state, salt is absolutely useless to the art unless it is either dissolved in water or contained in air. Just look at how such materials exist in nature, in areas of volcanic activity where various fixed metallic and volatile materials rise through hydrothermal vents and emerge as a smokey vapor. It is in the rotation of the wheel of the elements that energy can be transmuted from form to substance. But to explain this sufficiently, I'll need to go through the steps between, so as not to do what I used to in school and solve problems while omitting several parts of the working ("I did them in my head"). Specifically, I'll eventually be looking at induction and resonance (like what happens in radio sets), but first I need to lay the ground-work by reviewing the field of alternative physics and how it links in with what's already known.

Arrakis
11-17-2012, 04:02 AM
But I should also point out that in its solid state, salt is absolutely useless to the art unless it is either dissolved in water or contained in air.


Hi Vega,
Should we say that the most hygroscopic salts are the best for this purpose?

Arrakis
11-17-2012, 04:28 AM
This is the bit that really sparked my interest. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've also mentioned polarity interplay a lot in the 'old' thread, so I'd love to get a fresh perspective.



What would you say about a salt in a perpetually molten state? Or maybe I should wait until you get around to this subject (I have a feeling you are writing this a bit in 'thesis' form)


Hi Androgynus,
You're right, you're not the only one, that certainly drives my attention too!
About using perpetual molten salt, I'm affraid is very much like being perpetual solid salt, since it is the motion/movement what will charge/load the salt with the SM. I might be wrong but I don't think there's any static matter capable to attract the SM, stillness will rather produce nothing. As far as I know, there are two proceedia on this purpose: Either by repeated deliquesence-desecation, or by circulation into a flask.
Any alternative sugestions on this subject would be great.

Arrakis
11-17-2012, 04:50 AM
Not only that, but as one captures more Spiritus Mundi/radiant energy, the body starts to pulse and to vibrate, to feel more alive, and that's liable to shake loose anything negative that was sleeping under the surface, at least until one has started working with various technologies of coherence.


Hi again Vega, this is seriously interesting. Does this influence happen by simply capturing the SM on a matter? Or is it when we begin to put temperature to the captured SM?
Arrakis

vega33
11-17-2012, 07:21 AM
Not only that, but as one captures more Spiritus Mundi/radiant energy, the body starts to pulse and to vibrate, to feel more alive, and that's liable to shake loose anything negative that was sleeping under the surface, at least until one has started working with various technologies of coherence.
Hi again Vega, this is seriously interesting. Does this influence happen by simply capturing the SM on a matter? Or is it when we begin to put temperature to the captured SM?
Arrakis

Its more of an observation I've made while working with S.M. myself. My partner and I made a "device" several years back when we were living in Bondi (Sydney). The first thing we noticed was that it rained heavily and the atmosphere seemed to become more alive again. The next thing was a general sense of euphoria and laughter, grinning a lot, and finding it difficult to sleep due to the increased energy levels. Upon coming home we could often feel the device a block or so from our place, because the atmosphere literally changed palpably. We started working with making more devices and I think that could be what screwed things up, perhaps things burned out temporarily... the different devices being out of alignment with one another.

Later in the period while they were working though, it would start setting off things such as intense arguments, laughing and crying in close succession, etc... the kind of events that are usually associated with overstimulation (also sometimes associated with spontaneous Kundalini awakenings, although this wasn't anywhere near as intense as Kundalini, which I've felt). It eventually stopped working. The way I could tell it was working was the incredible health lift I got while in the presence of the device (which would disappear once we got outside of a certain radius of it). Ironically -- and Sol will probably be amused by this -- it was constructed in the form of a cone. I won't go into the construction here... quartz crystals of a special kind were used. Ever since then I've been doing research to determine why that unique design worked so well and others were nowhere near as effective -- was it environmental factors like being less than a km from a beach which was putting ions into the air? Was it the peculiar combination of metals used? Or something else?

But to get to your question: there are several different understandings of Spiritus Mundi. Literally translated it just means "world spirit", or "spirit of the earth" (mundi is in the genitive case). Its descriptions suggest certain things about it which lead some people to equate it with a physical part of the air, some people to equate it with orgone, chi, prana etc (which are all subtly different ways of approaching the subject). To "catch" the spiritus mundi, this very special bird (like the comic bird-catcher in the Magic Flute) is in a way equivalent to fixing the volatile. Some of the earliest remaining Greek alchemical texts talk of simply fixing (or corporifying) the spirit and spiritualizing the body. So essentially, there is a "something" which seems to have definite linkages with light/magnetism/heat, which resides in the air, which needs to be corporified. Corporify this spirit with the aid of the art of musical harmony and "means" (arithmetical/geometrical) etc, and you have a medicine to aid the body of other things by communicating the same world harmony into them. Concentrate this power to the highest degree possible by art, and you have the philosopher's stone.

That is a simplified explanation of course. But in my opinion (based on my own work) it is the form of the magnet that is important. Smaller particles which are closer to geometrical are more likely to aid in capturing it in my opinion. Hygroscopic salts could be used also. I would be more inclined to think that assuming you were using moisture to capture the the S.M., the innate fire would then work on the salt, and vice versa (the fire of the salt works on the S.M. to bring it closer to its own state) - a two way process by which one gets closer and closer to the desired crystalization of form. Again, it depends on what you are trying to acheive.

With regards to temperature, I've often heard the paraphrase "like a hen hatching an egg" - there is hints made that the heat must be of the same nature as the matter being worked on. For instance Compass of the Wise, and the True Path of Hermes, both speak of the vessel and the matter being the one body - ie, heat from the outside is transmitted to the inside and in so doing receives something of a quality from the matter it passes through. The idea that energy receives a "flavor" from the matter it interacts with I see as important. Alchemy is called the Art of Music, and there is reason to this. It is the Word which animates and creates matter, but then the opposite also occurs. There is a beautiful kind of paradox to this which is behind the idea of the Fall.

solomon levi
11-17-2012, 07:53 AM
Its more of an observation I've made while working with S.M. myself. My partner and I made a "device" several years back when we were living in Bondi (Sydney). The first thing we noticed was that it rained heavily and the atmosphere seemed to become more alive again. The next thing was a general sense of euphoria and laughter, grinning a lot, and finding it difficult to sleep due to the increased energy levels. Upon coming home we could often feel the device a block or so from our place, because the atmosphere literally changed palpably. We started working with making more devices and I think that could be what screwed things up, perhaps things burned out temporarily... the different devices being out of alignment with one another.

Later in the period while they were working though, it would start setting off things such as intense arguments, laughing and crying in close succession, etc... the kind of events that are usually associated with overstimulation (also sometimes associated with spontaneous Kundalini awakenings, although this wasn't anywhere near as intense as Kundalini, which I've felt). It eventually stopped working. The way I could tell it was working was the incredible health lift I got while in the presence of the device (which would disappear once we got outside of a certain radius of it). Ironically -- and Sol will probably be amused by this -- it was constructed in the form of a cone. I won't go into the construction here... quartz crystals of a special kind were used. Ever since then I've been doing research to determine why that unique design worked so well and others were nowhere near as effective -- was it environmental factors like being less than a km from a beach which was putting ions into the air? Was it the peculiar combination of metals used? Or something else?


This could be a new topic but I wanted to add my observations on multiple energy devices...
this could be the cause of some chaos, as you noted Vega33. The house I live in now has many of
these devices and Nibiru and i have thought more than once that they may be at the root of
some volatility and imbalance that affects people at varying degrees. Until we have instruments
to measure these effects, we have to go on what we feel - our bodies and energies bodies are the
instruments and we have to notice what works, what works together and what doesn't, etc.
But a warning or awareness of this possibility may help some people. One could make two or
more "good" alchemical and/or energetic devices or operations which might make "bad" when
combined, through some sort of interference or whatever.

Awani
11-17-2012, 02:52 PM
There was a bit of flame war, thread hi-jack and off-topic going on... but I have soft-delete all these posts and also moved all the tantric alchemy posts to the Tantric Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3261-Tantric-Alchemy&p=25874) thread. Please continue this thread on topic, which is: Spiritus Mundi and Electromagnetism / Radiant Energy

Concerning the issue that many subjects intertwine it is still better to discuss them in threads more relevant to the topic itself. This makes it easier to read and navigate the forums. Androgynus posted some links for those that are interested in all these other subjects. I re-post these below (as they were part of the deleted posts):
_____________________________________

If you wish to discuss secrecy, you can post under Secrecy & Alchemical Initiations (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1089-Secrecy-Alchemical-Initiations).

If you wish to discuss sexual alchemy, you can post it under A Modern Sexual Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1762-A-Modern-Sexual-Alchemy) or on any other relevant threads in the Spiritus Vitae (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?79-Spiritus-Vitae) sub-forum.

If you wish to discuss or ask questions about 'Spiritus Mundi' related principles that are not covered by this thread, you could try the older Spiritus Mundi (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi) thread, or any other relevant thread in the Practical Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?11-Practical-Alchemy) section, such as The Philosopher's Matter (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1382-The-Philosopher-s-Matter) (which is seemingly the most popular thread on this board so far :)).

There are also other threads in the Practical Alchemy sections where you can discuss capturing/attracting the Universal Spirit, I just can't remember them all...

_____________________________________

On with the thread and SM part 2.

:cool:

vega33
11-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Thanks dev, have greatly appreciated the help from the moderators in keeping the thread on topic.

Sol: my partner reminded me the other day, while we were discussing plans for my devices (which I need to get back into building for our own health), about the pulse that orgone has (and that of course all devices which use S.M. manipulate). T H Moray emphasized in his writings this idea of the universal symphony. Part of my feeling is that the inter-layering of organic and non-organic layerings usually used in accumulating energy in oracs/orgone blankets is not only that the organic layer brings an ordering to the field that is healthful to the human being (especially when material containing animal DNA is used, such as wool), but that the movement between levels of density (metal being more dense than wood or wool) itself creates a unique pulse signature and it is this internal pulsation (which should be measurable) that would cause devices to be out of or in alignment with one another. In my own experimentation we found our initial 2 devices (both cones) didn't "want" to be too close to one another, and that there were certain locations we could move them to that were optimal for functioning.

Everything has its own unique chord, as John Keely knew, which is the way he performed his miracles such as cancelling out gravitation or disintegrating rock. This chord is essentially the result of the combined vibrations and oscillations of its constituent parts and their configuration. It is interesting to see the linkups between Keely's work and Moray's, Moray's and Tesla's, and to know that Hartmann, the famous translator and collator of the writings of Paracelsus, active in the 1800s/1900s magical scene, knew of Keely and corresponded with Clara (Bloomfield-Moore) about what she considered part of Keely's compound secret: the healing of disease by the restoration of the proper "equilibrium" (harmony) between "positive" and "negative" forces. I am certainly hoping to be able to get further into this as the thread evolves, as it seems to be a point of linkup between salt, polarity, and the harmony upon which alchemy is based (and the reason for which it is called the Art of Music). I'd like to hear more of your own speculations on the problem of the discoherence between devices. Do you suppose the shape of the field evolved in each has something to do with it?

solomon levi
11-17-2012, 11:36 PM
:) There's really so many cones, pyramids, coils, SM nests, a black mirror, pendants,
ormus of various methods, geometrical and magical intents, other vortex devices
which haven't been discussed here, plus two alchemists under the same roof...
I haven't tried to decipher it. It hasn't been too crazy for me since I've a foundation
in nonduality and non-attachment, but several friends are going through some rough stuff.
Maybe it's just a sign of the times.
I hope Nibiru will write again soon and give his thoughts on these subjects.
Just about all of the items are his. I didn't bring any of mine with me, but I seem
to be a "device" myself quite often.
Maybe it's just "too much" of a good thing. For me, my "soup" is (nearly) always "just right" (Goldilocks reference).

I look forward to hearing your views on equilibrium. I take a geometrical perspective (frozen music) but that's
just my ignorance of musical theory. But it's all proportions/frequency. :)

If I think of something on the multiple devices, I'll be sure to post.

Arrakis
11-18-2012, 04:40 AM
Thanks Vega,
Yes it's true, I've noticed too that storms bring adeep breath of life in to the athmosphear, just after the storm and most particularly concentrated at night. What intrigues me is how to put all that into a matter in a simple operation, since it has to be done before that "breath" fades away. The otions stated so far are too long and complicated if we want to catch this ephimerous bird.
And yes, I catch it from the air moisture, but only under the two musts: The When and the Where, just as the old saying states: "certain time, certain place...". Both embrace many of the facts that you explain. By the way, I didn't know that music can help to this purpose, but I have noticed that when the spirit is more intense at night, night birds sing.

vega33
11-18-2012, 08:19 PM
Just a quick note on this thread. I still haven't started working on the writing of part 3, although all the planning is kind of down already. I want to look at the history of alternative energy research at the turn of the 19th/20th century and beyond, and how it relates into our topic of Spiritus Mundi and Electromagnetism (and the broader topic of utilizing harmonies or musical theory). I hope to get it out before the end of this week when I'll be on holidays down south for at least 5 days. The history will be broken up into parts, so maybe that will make it easier. There are many linkups between important figures in the late 19th and early 20th century, even things that many don't generally know about such as one of the founders of the O.T.O. secretly being a pioneer in free energy research. I hope it will be interesting and informative for all. :)

thoth
11-18-2012, 11:05 PM
Thanks dev, have greatly appreciated the help from the moderators in keeping the thread on topic.

it is this internal pulsation (which should be measurable) that would cause devices to be out of or in alignment with one another. In my own experimentation we found our initial 2 devices (both cones) didn't "want" to be too close to one another, and that there were certain locations we could move them to that were optimal for functioning.


Hi, hope I'm not going off thread, but just for what its worth, I work in Electronics and sometimes we have interference when at a transmitter site we have 2 transmitters on different frequencies but they cause interference with themselves or another transmitter/reciever. Its called an intermod (intermodulation) . For example you have a transmitter at 400Mhz , another at 420Mhz. Each transmitter has an oscillator at a didifferent frequency, so the oscillator of transmitter 1, mixes with the transmitter 2, and a new resultant frequency is generated with is interference and unplanned. If the 2 transmitters are seperated or properly shielded the problem is resolved.

So I could imagine a similar problem with etheric/harmonic/orgone devices creating a similar beat frequency

Andro
11-18-2012, 11:30 PM
etheric/harmonic/orgone devices creating a similar beat frequency

I have already encountered the 'Beat Frequency' term/phenomenon SO many times, that it's impossible for me to ignore any longer.

It's in brainwave entrainment (such as Hemi-Sync (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi-Sync)), in electronics (as Thoth mentioned), in various technologies and most apparently in Orgone devices and in our own bodies as well.

When looking at my own applied research, I can now tell that it's very much present in there as well - I just didn't call it by this name until now...

Salts & Polarities, Crystals, EM/Radiant Energy, Beat Frequencies... let's see where and how it all comes together :)

Andro
11-19-2012, 06:40 AM
Salts & Polarities, Crystals, EM/Radiant Energy, Beat Frequencies... let's see where and how it all comes together

I am also wondering if/where the effects of Phase Cancellation may fit into this. I'm asking because I've had a few theoretical talks with some friends about possible practical implementations of this effect, and wondering how (if at all) this phenomenon would fit into the bigger picture of what is being discussed here.

From sound engineering technical literature:


Phase describes where in its cycle a periodic waveform is at any given time.
The relationship in time of two or more waveforms with the same or harmonically related periods gives us a measurement of their phase difference.
Phase cancellation occurs when two signals of the same frequency are out of phase with each other resulting in a net reduction in the overall level of the combined signal.
If two identical signals are 100% or 180 degrees out of phase they will completely cancel one another if combined.

solomon levi
11-22-2012, 05:11 AM
On beat frequencies - yes, these are solid observations IMO. Thank you.
Perhaps we should take it literally - "one vessel". :)
Otherwise multiple standing waves could interfere and become EM waves,
which may be how creation occurs in the first place.

vega33
11-23-2012, 06:55 PM
Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

--Goethe

Alchemy is said by many to be the key to all sciences; nay, indeed their pinnacle. "It is occult science in its entirety", says Pierre Dujols, writing in his Hypotypose: "... the universal arcanum, the seal of the absolute, the magical resort of religion, and that is why it has been called the Sacerdotal or Sacred Art."

In this connection, we find artists from all walks of life: doctors, lawyers, chemists... have shared an interest in the sacerdotal art. However, from the moment that science became an open pursuit, part of popular culture and oriented as it were towards the interests of the state, there has been an increasing number who have pursued the same goals under the visage of a different veneer, varying from that of the vox populi :D. Indeed, many who have pursued the art to its utmost publicly and attained have been dismissed as cranks, while others have had to wait several generations before their story would be told.

There is something of an irony in understanding that a science once vetoed by the church as a punishable offense has now become become relegated to the realms of fiction by the very people who opposed what they saw as the superstitions of the church... superstitions which were themselves occult blinds upon a science that can legitimately stake a claim to being thousands of years old. Whereas in the past, admissions of involvement in alchemy could lead to excommunication from the church, nowadays the most common reaction is one of derision. Its books are looked at as "unscientific", its goals "impossible dreams": transmutation of matter in measurable quantities? restoration of lost youth? Garbage! says the popular conception. Again, we emphasize: the modern age, try as the post-modern might to break free of the shallow conception of the solid world, remains stuck in a space populated by imaginary billiard balls.

So it is unsurprising when one finds the brightest and most open minds of the late 1800s and early 1900s - that period known as the Occult Revival - once again turning to the writings of alchemy. From Mary-Anne Atwood, to Wynne Westcott; there were many inter-related names who came to different versions of the same revelations -- some without calling them alchemy, others focusing more on the mental, abstract aspects of the science, while others worked in the shadows under the conception of the unity of forces, or correlation - something spoken of by Lord Lytton in his novel The Coming Race.


"What is the vril?" I asked.

Therewith Zee began to enter into an explanation of which I understood very little, for there is no word in any language I know which is an exact synonym for vril. I should call it electricity, except that it comprehends in its manifold branches other forces of nature, to which, in our scientific nomenclature, differing names are assigned, such as magnetism, galvanism, &c. These people consider that in vril they have arrived at the unity in natural energetic agencies, which has been conjectured by many philosophers above ground, and which Faraday thus intimates under the more cautious term of correlation:—

"I have long held an opinion," says that illustrious experimentalist, "almost amounting to a conviction, in common, I believe, with many other lovers of natural knowledge, that the various forms under which the forces of matter are made manifest, have one common origin; or, in other words, are so directly related and mutually dependent that they are convertible, as it were into one another, and possess equivalents of power in their action. These subterranean philosophers assert that by one operation of vril, which Faraday would perhaps call 'atmospheric magnetism,' they can influence the variations of temperature—in plain words, the weather; that by operations, akin to those ascribed to mesmerism, electro-biology, odic force, &c., but applied scientifically, through vril conductors, they can exercise influence over minds, and bodies animal and vegetable, to an extent not surpassed in the romances of our mystics. To all such agencies they give the common name of vril."

This quote perhaps gives the best introduction to our subject that we can give as we begin to delve into the practical implementations of the perennial wisdom that existed in this era, and the interconnections that existed socially between its various researchers. This is a vast subject area and reveals more about the subject to some extent than a mere reading of their writings.

The quote above reveals something of the spirit of the age which was present at the turn of the century. Not only was it a great era for the occult revival, people were also investigating the physical manifestations that could be the result of applying the rules of universal harmony and of the neutral centre to energy research, and making fantastic strides. In this connection, when we return, the first people who I want to investigate the connection between is a group of four individuals: Walter Russell, Nikola Tesla, T H Moray, and John Keely. I'll enlist the help of several of their writings, including the Snell Manuscript, and Moray's "The Sea of Energy in Which the Earth Floats". It should be a fun time for all ;-)

Rebus7
11-24-2012, 12:06 PM
A nice, concise and knowledgeable intro and overview of the subject.
I look forward to your further offerings :cool:

alfr
11-24-2012, 01:31 PM
hi vega very good very interesting i assoced with rebus7 I look forward to your new post thanks

solomon levi
11-28-2012, 06:38 AM
Yes! It's vrilly interesting! :)

III
11-28-2012, 06:46 AM
Yes! It's vrilly interesting! :)



For best health make sure you get enough red vril oil every day.

There is a poem speaking about "IT" seen without eyes, heard without ears etc. Does anybody know what that is? I lost track of it about 10 years ago, when I was quite ill.

vega33
11-29-2012, 02:40 AM
Thanks Rebus7, alfr, Sol!

I've just returned from a 5 day trip down south, financially drained and amused being back in the spectacle of it all, but I hope to redouble my efforts on this thread soon, having gotten some independent confirmation of being on the right path with all this. I have all of tomorrow to focus on putting this all together :)

Dendritic Xylem
01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
This is quite an amazing thread Vega33. Thank you for starting it. I really hope this continues.
It is great that you want to move in the direction of 19th and early 20th century inventors. I have focused much of my time studying this field and believe it holds a wonderful key.

Anyone wanting to review the history of John Keely, may I suggest the book by Theo Paijmans. It will acquaint you with the history of Bloomfield-Moore and the snell manuscript...along with the very interesting T. Burton Kinraide.

I also wanted to add something which is related to a certain geometric shape being discussed recently.
I do not know how credible the story is, but I feel it is important to review the info in light of this thread.
Ralph Ring is a character who corroborates the Carr/Utron story. Videos of him are on youtube.
http://www.rexresearch.com/carr/1carr.htm


"Our system utilizes gravity, electromagnetism, and electromotive force and a relative field to get its functional operation. We use an electrified sender. It's a sensor power core. Now this is what we call an accumulator... It is a storage cell, an accumulation of storage cells which provide an electromotive force in the same manner that any known battery produces and electromotive force... "


Well, it looks like two ice cream cones put together at the wide ends, but he angle is a lot wider [90 degrees] than that of the ice cream cones.


LJ: I can tell this: that it opened up and it appears to be hollowed out on the inside... it's circular, the inside; when the two parts are put one on top of the other and they fit into place, the cavity inside is circular...

OTC: It is a sphere, yes. And each unit is a hemisphere. We call the center of this large dimension the equator and of course it contracts and expands to a point on each side It's the union of two presto-conical sections; that is what it is Two right angle sections, and we say it is the dimensions of space and we have shown how this comes about...

crestind
05-12-2014, 12:23 AM
Precisely. So when someone asks someone else for secrets, they are saying:
"know me well enough to suggest my next step and that which is relevant to me only."
"distill everything according to me and chunk it to my size so I can hear."
It's not impossible...
But it'd be easier for each of us to do this for ourselves.
In some cases/relationships, it is impossible unless the relationship evolves.
A sensitive can do it without much trouble - these impressions are popping into
our heads all the time - we just have to notice them and pay attention.
But the sensitive is like water/mercury/spirit and they may just as easily
dissolve you than answer your conditioned question. :)
1. Not really. It has been asked several times throughout this SM series by a few folks, how can they concentrate the SM? It's very general and very broad. If it wasn't, would multiple people be asking the same thing?
2. If it was easier to do themselves, wouldn't they already have done it instead of asking.
I must say your post above defies basic logic.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3237-Spiritus-Mundi-II-True-Light-Power-and-the-astral-spirit&p=25756#post25756
This guy has the right idea.