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III
11-12-2012, 05:07 AM
Spiritus Mundi


It is said that in the End-Days, all that is secret and hidden would be openly revealed.



Not just the secrets we think we desperately want to uncover, not just the mysteries of Creation, Nature and Art...
But also the secrets so many of us are scared to find out - or to be found out about.



I too read that about 50 years ago when I started looking seriously, when I was about 14 and started looking seriously for Tantric Alchemy. You have no idea what a stir a 14 year old boy back in 1962 looking for Tantric Alchemy books at the public library. I had an adult card since I was 9 years old. I spent days in the locked stacks in the Cleveland public library. I found a few things on Tantric Alchemy. There were lots of temple pictures showing things absolutely unseeable by a 14 year old in 1962 explicitly sexual carvings, paintings and the like. There were deadly boring tracts by late 19th century Christian anthrolpologists saying why such filth must be wiped off the face of the earth, or at least restricted to "qualified professionals" only, until such things are wiped from the face of the Earth and then all knowledge of it permanenttly removed from the knowlege of mankind for the good of all. It did make an impression on me of the necessity of keeping a really low profile.

I did that for most of the past 50 years. And sure enough, the clues are literally everywhere


There are all manner of things I could tell you about how to find the experience of "first self awareness" of the that consciousness that created the "world" we exist in. Whether I can say it well enough to be understood is another thing entirely. Whether I can say it in such a way that anybody reading it is willing to suspend disbelief sufficient to be able to travel in the labyrinth to that experience is in for "now for something completely different".

I fully agree with E.J. Gold on the "secret keeps itself". Anything that is truely secret can't be (chose all that apply) heard, understood, spoken, written. People speak great secrets all the time that they don't even remember speaking if the person across from them needs to hear it. If a person has "work necessitiy" to be informed on something, they will be. The creation of "work necessity", now there is one of the real secrets.

Again, as EJ Gold said decades ago , "the great secrets are available for $1.95 in paperback (a little dated as far as inflation goes)" and now even as free downloads.

Here is a great secret to get you started "In order to get 'good' answers, one must ask 'good; questions". In other worrds GIGO.

The real trick is to recognize the great secrets as they are as carelessly splashed around as is so much more tripe. One person's "great secret" is another's "That's no secret, I've known it all my life". There is no more perfect camoflage.

BE IN LOVE

III
11-14-2012, 06:14 PM
The discussion initiated by Illen A. Cluf (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?10-Illen-A-Cluf) in this post (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3237-Spiritus-Mundi-II-True-Light-Power-and-the-astral-spirit&p=25773#post25773), is now continued here on this thread.
____________________________________


I'm not familiar with tantric alchemies. Can you tell me more about it? Thanks.

Tantric alchemies are all about learning to "know thy self". No additional apparatus outside of our own bodies is needed, though I find a massage table and a lot of cushions helpful. No dangerous chemicals, though in many of the modes shamanic substances are used from time to time as appropriate. Others call it Tantric Yoga. Perhaps there is a distinction there. Tantra is a nondual philosophy. As with all non-dual systems, at the root, "Thou art God" to quote Michael Valintine Smith.

So "Tantra" can mean all sorts of things. It is "weaving" as in the tapastry of life. A "tantra" is a divine dialog (channeled for instance) between the divine male and divine female (ie Shiva and Shakti or some other suitable pair) on esoteric and esoteric sexual matters. Tantra incorparated nutrition and healing the body, the arts of all kinds, spiritual practice and most specifically using the channels of the divine built into the body. Tantra gets reinterpreted over and over again. All living teachings get restated in understandable (hopefully) language over and over. So here and now, when I say anything about tantra, it is in 21st century English such as I know it and not restricted by 140 chracter limit. My understandings and interpretations are headed more and more towards Object Oriented Tantra, which is a newer way to speak and think about anything complex beyond understanding.


Tantra uses and incorporates the body and the many energies included. Most are aware of the seven chakras of Hindu understanding. Others use the 10 chakras of the Buddhist Tantra. Then there is the system with a single heart chakra that includes all the petals. In all there are about 2000 such "petals". Each one is like a fiber optic data line of near infinite capacity with a multilayered speed of light compression algorythym.

So, the catch is in the language. Let's take the vulva (lower gate of heaven in some terminologies) and linga for example. They each have perhaps 20-30 separate distinct "energies" that can be specifically aroused in combinations and sequences, like musical notes, that can become sort of a modem carrier frequency that leads to "bliss". This bliss can look like any of a dozen or so forms of "orgasm", can go on for hours, can carry one into the Eternal realm and back again. The effect is often called "shaktipat". Until one learns to carry memory across the time zone changes, any expereince in the Eternal Now is over in a blink of an eye, even if one spent billions and billions of subjective lifetimes there. If one happens to have a clock in the field of view it can seem to jump hours ahead or even some minutes backwards.


Now one way to describe all this, hook it to something approachable, is to call it a "living God(dess) communion". This is noticing the effect of "When two or more are gathered in my name, there so am I" or perhaps "there so I AM" is more accurate. Tantric sex is sacred prayer and communion with the Living God(dess). Each time we do so we grow, we get added upon. Then we scurry around in our lives for a while adopting the new KNOWING into our lives and then go back to the sacred communion for the next installment. The Living God(dess) communion is invoked by 2 or more performing certain cooperative "prayers". Shaktipat only occurs if the receiver is open to it and has surrendered the barriers to the divine sufficiently. J.R. Haule speaks of "Erotic Trance" in his formerly free downloadable books, now about to be published by a University Press. That is the basic entry point, everything else follows from there. It can take 6 months to a year for a person to learn how to enter erotic trance easily. Aong the way a person may also learn the 7 (up to 10 depending upon who you read) forms of Taoist orgasm), hour long orgasm, and the such. After that a pair of Tantric Partners can start opening the many and various "gates" or temples and so on spoken of in mystical literature. Working alone, which I have done more of than you might imagine, is just not the same. In September in two hours I was able to teach a woman and her husband who were ready, how to go into erotic trance and have an introductory experience of living God(des) communion. On the web OneTaste is teaching OM, Orgasmic Meditation, which is an introduction to this under a different non spiritual "life style" setup. I don't care in the least what they call their specific Alchemical methods.

BE IN LOVE

III
11-14-2012, 07:46 PM
So in learning to feel, sense, "see" and work with the radiant energy of the other person, entering erotic trance when one shares such radiant energy with another, so where does that belong? I have to confess I have no idea how to classify that but it is at the heart of Tantric Alchemy. Sex is one very effective way of working with said radiant energies. So where does that belong? A circle of persons working with said energies is very powerful, much more so than 2 people alone as those radiant energies are increased. One can be aware of the radius of these energies by the size of the circles of barking dogs set off by the energies.

Illen A. Cluf
11-15-2012, 12:07 AM
Hi III,

Thank you for your very clear overview. I'll look for J.R. Haule's papers (hope they're still free) and study this a little more thoroughly. While the sexual approach may work for some couples, I don't think my wife would co-operate too enthusiastically with this type of experimentation. She has absolutely no interest in alchemy to begin with.
But I assume that there must be other approaches that work just as well.

I have been in some incredibly profound trances before, during which I felt that all the complete understanding of everything in the Universe was opened to me. I remember being totally amazed, but when I came out of the trance, the only memory was what I just described - unfortunately the understanding was lost immediately, although I remembered "knowing". I learned how to put oneself in a trance when I was a teenager. I practiced it daily for a year, and then often for at least a decade or two since then. I never once got into a trance. The trance happened without any intent whatsoever. It was spontaneous, although at the time I was trying to figure out a puzzle and was concentrating on it very intensely. The peak period lasted for maybe an hour, but after coming out of the trance, I was in an elevated state for at least a day. During the trance I felt like my skin was burning - like having a fever, but without the ill effects. It was a "glowing" feeling. That was perhaps ten years ago, and I have not had another such experience since.

Illen

III
11-15-2012, 03:50 AM
Hi III,

Thank you for your very clear overview. I'll look for J.R. Haule's papers (hope they're still free) and study this a little more thoroughly. While the sexual approach may work for some couples, I don't think my wife would co-operate too enthusiastically with this type of experimentation. She has absolutely no interest in alchemy to begin with. But I assume that there must be other approaches that work just as well.

I have been in some incredibly profound trances before, during which I felt that all the complete understanding of everything in the Universe was opened to me. I remember being totally amazed, but when I came out of the trance, the only memory was what I just described - unfortunately the understanding was lost immediately, although I remembered "knowing". I learned how to put oneself in a trance when I was a teenager. I practiced it daily for a year, and then often for at least a decade or two since then. I never once got into a trance. The trance happened without any intent whatsoever. It was spontaneous, although at the time I was trying to figure out a puzzle and was concentrating on it very intensely. The peak period lasted for maybe an hour, but after coming out of the trance, I was in an elevated state for at least a day. During the trance I felt like my skin was burning - like having a fever, but without the ill effects. It was a "glowing" feeling. That was perhaps ten years ago, and I have not had another such experience since.

Illen

Hi Illen,

In practice there are a whole lot of Tantric Alchemy methods from the strictly non-physical to quite physical. Gazing, joined meditation and massage is often sufficient for syncronizing energies. The problem is that if she doesn't like ecstatic practices, and won't meditate and doesn't want to change and evolve, she would not be cooperative in any case. What does she think Alchemy is about? Does she think it is looking for mythical gold or such or that it is about transforming one's self into spiritual gold. via communion with the divine? If she isn't in it for spiritual purposes what idea would she buy into? Goddess circles with a bunch of women can be very excellent. Haule's book is no longer avialable for download and is not yet available for sale. Check his website and there is probably a synopsis avaialable. I have had wonderful experiences being the only male, supplying those energies, to a dozen or more awakened ladies doing nothing more than sitting in a circle and joining in certain types of prayers. THE HIDDEN WORK my E.J. Gold has the Prayer Absolute invocation in it, most useful for a group that has at least one person who already knows how but also instruction of how to get started. That book is based on the LABYRINTH terminology developed in THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN BOOK OF THE DEAD, LIFE IN THE LABYRINTH and THE HUMAN BIOLOGICAL MACHINE AS A TRANSFORMATIONAL APPARATUS. PRACTICAL WORK ON SELF is a set of 26 attention exercises to be used over a year for training the skills needed.

Entering a joined trance state with another of the "erotic trance" type may be a whole other kettle of fish from individual trance but it is a start. This doesn't have to be erotic but the erotic energies cause the opening being sought. Many people RUN from the opening urge with the erotic energies. The secret to enlightenment is to be willing to look all those places one CAN'T look now.

The puzzle to be solved is our own maze of blocks to the Living Light built up over many lifetimes.

Illen A. Cluf
11-16-2012, 03:54 AM
Hi Illen,
In practice there are a whole lot of Tantric Alchemy methods from the strictly non-physical to quite physical. Gazing, joined meditation and massage is often sufficient for syncronizing energies. The problem is that if she doesn't like ecstatic practices, and won't meditate and doesn't want to change and evolve, she would not be cooperative in any case. What does she think Alchemy is about? Does she think it is looking for mythical gold or such or that it is about transforming one's self into spiritual gold. via communion with the divine? If she isn't in it for spiritual purposes what idea would she buy into? Goddess circles with a bunch of women can be very excellent. Haule's book is no longer avialable for download and is not yet available for sale. Check his website and there is probably a synopsis avaialable. I have had wonderful experiences being the only male, supplying those energies, to a dozen or more awakened ladies doing nothing more than sitting in a circle and joining in certain types of prayers. THE HIDDEN WORK my E.J. Gold has the Prayer Absolute invocation in it, most useful for a group that has at least one person who already knows how but also instruction of how to get started. That book is based on the LABYRINTH terminology developed in THE ORIGINAL AMERICAN BOOK OF THE DEAD, LIFE IN THE LABYRINTH and THE HUMAN BIOLOGICAL MACHINE AS A TRANSFORMATIONAL APPARATUS. PRACTICAL WORK ON SELF is a set of 26 attention exercises to be used over a year for training the skills needed.
Entering a joined trance state with another of the "erotic trance" type may be a whole other kettle of fish from individual trance but it is a start. This doesn't have to be erotic but the erotic energies cause the opening being sought. Many people RUN from the opening urge with the erotic energies. The secret to enlightenment is to be willing to look all those places one CAN'T look now.
The puzzle to be solved is our own maze of blocks to the Living Light built up over many lifetimes.


Hi III,

I didn't see that the thread was moved here. It's also moved to another location, which I was checking.

My wife thinks alchemy is another foolish old man's pursuit like Kabbalah, etc. She feels that men are obsessed with "secrets", secret organizations, secret teachings, secret whatever, etc. Women are generally not drawn to this type of pursuit.

I found Haule's site and he includes several chapters from most of his books. So I wil go through those to get a "feel" for his teachings.

Illen

III
11-16-2012, 06:50 AM
Hi III,


I didn't see that the thread was moved here. It's also moved to another location, which I was checking.

My wife thinks alchemy is another foolish old man's pursuit like Kabbalah, etc. She feels that men are obsessed with "secrets", secret organizations, secret teachings, secret whatever, etc. Women are generally not drawn to this type of pursuit.

I found Haule's site and he includes several chapters from most of his books. So I wil go through those to get a "feel" for his teachings.

Illen

Hi Illen,

Haule is not teaching. He is a Jungian therapist who untook the practice of Tantric Alchemy to better understand. In the previous version he detailed this experience and tied it into theory and so forth. He has had 10 more years to add more chapters as he carries it farther. The book of interest is INDECENT PRACTICES - Understanding Tantra.


alchemy is another foolish old man's pursuit like Kabbalah, etc. She feels that men are obsessed with "secrets", secret organizations, secret teachings, secret whatever


As far as your wife goes, Tantric alchemy is extremely different from anything she is even thinking about. Change terminology. How does she like "sacred sex"? Or would she prefer to learn "hour long orgasms" or the "7 levels of Taoist orgasm"? It's a different kind of prayerful meditation. The only secrets are in the learning. Does learning the practice of ecstacy appeal to her? Of course if all she thinks is right and proper is 10 minutes of missionary position none of that will work. If she would like to be adored and learn the best sex she has ever had then she might like a different take on it. It's much more like learning to play a musical instrument than anything else in some ways. What an organ to learn on!

Learning can start in the first minutes. There doesn't have to be any mystery or secrets or secret organization. All of that is of the ego and at best is a distraction.

It's an Alchemy of LOVE. And LOVE provokes folks worst fears.

BE IN LOVE

III
11-17-2012, 07:48 PM
Tantric yoga is closely related to Kundalini yoga. They both are closely involved in learning to sense and work with the radiant energy that flows through us and all around us. When I was younger I used to describe this awareness was like living in a sea of low density water in which we can feel currents, perceive information, literally see how the people shape the space around them and how they block of the flow of the divine energy of LOVE. LOVE is irritating at first. It irritates all the blockages to it.

A cycle of the Alchemy might occur with an experience of more energy flowing, whether started by consciously releasing Kundalini, sharing it with another person or entering via the energies of any of the chakras assisted with physical behaviors. Then those involved have their blockages irritated by the energy and they go into unconscious reaction and emotions of many kinds. The experience is different if one is taught to WAKE UP first from walking sleep. The more awake a person becomes, the more they see themselves and the mechanism of their blockages instead of being thrown into unconscious reaction that is completely mechanical and non-conscious. When they can see the actual location and nature of their blockages they can then remove the trigger and put in place a more knowledgable understanding. These energies need moderation at first as one can get kind of crispy with a Kundalini overdose. When a sufficient degree of tolerance and capacity for LOVE is developed along with the skills, one becomes able to do an alchemical sequence in shorter and shorter times until "the snake eats his tail" and it becomes continuous. Then starts a whole new phase of work.

A proposed physical basis for being able to work with the energies will be forthcoming.

Ezalor
11-30-2012, 09:19 PM
What I don't understand is why people always only talk about "Tantric sex" when in fact the real point of Tantra, what is referred to as "bliss" or "ecstasy" doesn't have anything to do with sexual pleasure.

III
12-03-2012, 05:37 AM
What I don't understand is why people always only talk about "Tantric sex" when in fact the real point of Tantra, what is referred to as "bliss" or "ecstasy" doesn't have anything to do with sexual pleasure.

Hi Ezalor,

People are more apt to buy "Tantric Sex" and great sex rather than Tantric Alchemy and with the cost being all of their most cherished beliefs and dreams, fears and nightmares. As J.R. Haule has stated 99% of those purporting to be teaching Tantra are teach tantric sex not Tantric Alchemy. In any case that is probably a public service. The American level of sexual knowledge is pathetically bad. I can teach a couple more about practical sex in two hours than they have learned in 30 years of married life. That is pretty sad. Most men know almost nothing, and I'm speaking pragmaticaly, not academic knowledge. Ask the ladies.

I'm going to borrow a phrase. The Tantra that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tantra. With that said "bliss", "ecstacy" and other such words may have dozens of desciptions because they can be caused by dozens of different energies. Perhaps, if a person is versitile enough, each and every energy represented by each petal of all chakras can be taken to "bliss".

what is referred to as "bliss" or "ecstasy" doesn't have anything to do with sexual pleasure

And you KNOW this how? A lot of intellectual wiggling euphemism has been expended on this exact matter. As is said in the last 30 years or so, with more explicit language, that in Tantra that the purpose of Tantra isn't orgasm but "ecstacy". "Sexual pleasure" isn't the question. And this is written concerning males generally. And even that is not really clear. It's about ejaculation. If sexual pleasure is ejaculation, then that might be true. However, sexual pleasure comes during all types and stages of sex and is impossible to avoid and find ecstacy. And that is often stated in literally physiologically impossible terms like the semen literally rising up the spinal column, NONSENSE. It has been restated multiple different ways this past century as traditional euphemisms are shown to be physiological nonsense. Now the sensation of energy going up the spine, sure. I'll go with that. Kundalini etc. We had a reasonably extensive discussion of the whole semen issue previously, search for the words. So let me state it plainly here as clearly as I can. Male ejaculation is bypassed, at least initially. I specifically say bypassed as opposed to surpressed because supressing it has the generally wrong results. At that moment, just before ejaculation is the moment of ejaculatory inevitability (modern language). At that point ejaculation can be bypassed while allowing the orgasmic energy to occur. Without the ejaculation to cut it off, that energy continues and builds, reaches a complete drive you nuts type energy. Keep going. No matter what keep focused and keep it going. At a certian point with a partner it becomes self generating, it "lases" and one goes into Eternal "bliss". However, while it is not "sexual satisfaction" with ejaculation, it is endless orgasm, cosmic orgasm as sometimes called. Otherwise it is what women are generally more easily taught as one of many types or levels of orgasm. Usually this energy, spontaniously starting would cause panic and immediate cutoff. In a sexual context it can just happen because it can just do a fade-in as part of the sexual energy. They are indistinguisable. A lot of guys might find 4 hours of unending ecstacy without ejaulation frustrating, not "sexual satisfaction". The final objection before slipping into the ecstatic NOW is usually "but I've got to stop it, it could go on all night". Then, again as EJ Gold says the Labyrinth is composed of nothing but distractions. "Ecstacy" or "Bliss" is the sum total of massive distraction. Now one takes this "Ecstacy", regardless of how started, and sexual yoga is great for it and much easier than most methods, very direct, then needs to be transmuted into WISDOM. How much pleasure can you stand? Can you learn to allow complete surrender to extreme ecstacy that allows it to transform into WISDOM.

The real point of Tantra is WISDOM, LOVE, ENLIGHTENMENT etc whatever all that is or means. One can use the energy to heat your tea (Bliss) or to add information (WISDOM) to ones self, evolution, Alchemy.

I find a lot of humor in the degree of fear people have of sex and of achieving ecstacy via sexual means and the terribly elaborate reasons. Usually they fear ecstacy in any way. Of course they are usually cutting themsleves off in about every way. I'm not talking about the horrid treatment around sex that many of experienced. That is caused by this fear and hate of sex basically making people at war with themselves and taking it out on others. I don't find that humorous but sad. And the humor of people shooting themselves in the foot is funny on some levels and sad again on others. Surely, we must take our humor where we can find it.

I'm not a hedonist, fortunately, as this life would not have been a good one for a hedonist. I do however have no objection to enjoying life when the opportunity comes along. I'm not an ascetic. And I'll choose the rare juicy steak despite knowing it's an illusion.

Then there is a different pathway right at the beginning. That is to couple the energies to increasing consciousness with ones partner, "awake conscious sex" in which one reaches the "living Goddess communion" state with ones partner. That is not a traditional Tantric description that I am aware of. If we looked in enough Tanrtras we would probably find it described in some way or another.

And of course, for a variety of Alchemical purposes ejaculation is required, to be combined with the priestesses's contributions and reacted in the chalice stirred by the wand and reacted with the proper energies to make the Elixer of life. This also is discussed elsewhere at some length. Have fun.

Avatar
12-03-2012, 06:12 AM
Taoism.
Yoga.
Tantra.
Buddhism.
All the same thing.
Reverse apana.
master samadhi
Samadhi is easy.
Reversal of apana is where bliss and sexual transmutation begins.
Bliss in the physiological sense, is skin erection. When ever pore on your body stands on end with such intensity that an automatic smile/laughter comes out of you. Waves of it. That is physiological bliss.

No semen dosnt go up the spine. But every culture expressly says you cannot perform sexual transformation without reversal of part of the physiology.
My only logic conclusion of how to reverse "apana" as its called in yoga.
It to induce respiratory alkalosis through decarbonization of the blood. This effects the kidneys if sustained. It also causes flaccid paralysis. Flaccid paralysis is one of the key signs that you are ready to do tantra. "Only a man with no desire for woman is ready for tantra"

Anyway. I have done literal sexual transmutation. Your whole body turns solid red like the pictures of dakinis. I have never read anything publically available that helped. Well,publicly. Available and not written in code.

Avatar
12-03-2012, 06:14 AM
The yogis and taoists aimed at full fledged physiological transmutation. Literally becoming a different beast. No longer human by normal standards. Super human if you will. Call it what you will. Literal physiological change.

Ezalor
12-03-2012, 05:15 PM
I guess you are aware that a great part - or probably a majority - of Tantric practitioners are saddhus or monks who never have sex of any sort? But let someone more capable than I speak for me:


The paucity of research and publications on the Tantric heritage of Hinduism has in recent years made room for a whole crop of ill-informed popular books on what I have called "Neo-Tantrism." Their reductionism is so extreme that a true initiate would barely recognize the Tantric heritage in these writings. The most common distortion is to present Tantra Yoga as a mere discipline of ritualized or sacred sex. In the popular mind, Tantra has become equivalent to sex. Nothing could be farther from the truth!
I have looked at a number of these popular books on what one well-known Tibetan lama once jokingly referred to as "California Tantra. "One time I even sat through half of a thoroughly uninspiring and essentially pornographic video presentation on Neo-Tantrism. In each case I was left with the overwhelming impression that these Neo-Tantric publications are based on a profound misunderstanding of the Tantric path. Their main error is to confuse Tantric bliss (an-anda, maha-sukha) with ordinary orgasmic pleasure. Indeed, the words "pleasure "and "fun" are prominent catchphrases in the Neo-Tantric literature. These publications may conceivably be helpful to people looking for a more fulfilling or entertaining sex life, but they are in most cases far removed from the true spirit of Tantra. In this sense they are sadly misleading, for instead of awakening a person's impulse to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all beings, they tend to foster narcissism, self-delusion, and false hopes.
Tantra is a Sanskrit word that, like the term yoga, has many distinct but basically related meanings. At the most mundane level, it denotes "web" or "woof." It derives from the verbal root tan, meaning "to expand." This root also yields the word tantu (thread or cord).
Whereas a thread is something that is extensive, a web suggests expansion. Tantra can also stand for "system," "ritual," "doctrine," and "compendium." According to esoteric explanations, tantra is that which expands jnana, which can mean either "knowledge" or "wisdom."
If we look for Tantric elements in the Brahmanas, we can readily find them in the idea that sexual union is a form of sacrifice, a notion that builds a bridge to the Tantric maithuna. Sexual symbolism is pervasive in the Brahmanas, but can already be amply found in the Vedas.
Hindu iconographers have made various attempts to depict in three-dimensional form the zero-dimensional relationship between Shiva and Shakti. One popular image is that of Ardhanar Tshvara (lit. "Half-Woman-Lord"), which is sometimes wrongly described as hermaphroditic. The left half of this figure is depicted as a female with one ample breast, while the right half is depicted as a male, often holding Shiva's trident. Obviously, this image is only a very imperfect depiction of the "union" between Shiva and Shakti, which is a seamless continuity of Consciousness and Power within one and the same Reality. Even the term "polarity" does not describe this transcendental situation accurately. A somewhat more fitting analogy would be that of a hologram that yields one image when viewed from a certain angle and another image when viewed differently.
The same limitation inherent in the Ardhanarlshvara image also applies to Tantric paintings or statues depicting Shiva and Shakti in intimate embrace. Usually voluptuous Shakti sits astride her beloved's lap, wrapping hersel faround him like a creeper in what the Tibetans call the yab-yum (mother-father) position, face turned blissfully upward. This graphic motif suggests sexual love, which makes sense, since for many people sexual union affords the only experience of unity. When they lose themselves in the arms of their lover, they experience at least a semblance of the ego-transcending consciousness of the Tantric adept. It is therefore not surprising that so many Neo-Tantrics in the West look upon Tantra as a sexual discipline promising pleasure beyond all expectation, mostly in the form of prolonged or multiple orgasms. Neo-Tantrics seek to emulate the divine couple but typically forget that the union between Shiva and Shakti is transcendental and therefore also asexual. The fruit of their union - and hence also the goal of Tantra Yoga - is not bodily orgasm, however overwhelming, but perpetual bliss far beyond anything the human nervous system is capable of producing.
A third motif of ten exploited in paintings and sculptures is that of the reclining Shiva, with Shakti (mostly in the form of the fear-instilling goddess Kali) towering above him, with weapons in her hands, a garland of skulls around her neck, protruding tongue dripping with the blood of her victims. This image gives us the most penetrating glimpse into the Shiva-Shakti symbolism. Here Shiva is depicted with a massive erection, yet with a body besmeared from toe to crown with ashes, clearly suggesting that he is indifferent to his sexual arousal and the world at large. The pale, almost translucent white color of his skin suggests the luminosity of the Divine. It is no accident that he resembles a corpse, lying in what is called the corpse posture (shava-asana), for the image strongly points to a practice at the very heart of Tantra that many Western observers have found rather disquieting. This is the old custom of left-hand tantrikas to receive initiation from a female adept in the graveyard. The Tantric male practitioner emulates Shiva, who is dead to all passion and pure Consciousness. Even his blood is turned to ashes - a symbol of utter dispassion.
A vastly simplified form of the divine intercourse between Shiva and Shakti is the yoni-linga symbol, which can be drawn, painted, or carved. It consists of a round or oval shape in whose center an upright linga is placed. These represent the male and female generative organs and their corresponding creative energies. The yoni (vulva) stands for Shakti, energy, immanence; the linga ("mark" or "phallus") represents Shiva, consciousness, transcendence. Their juxtaposition symbolizes the creative union as a result of which multiplicity can arise within the simplicity of Parama-Shiva. This particular imagery has also been incorporated into the description of the psychoenergetic center at the base of the spine, the muladhara-cakra. This is the seat of the serpent power, the localized presence of the non local Shakti. The serpent power is depicted as being coiled three and a half times around a shiva-linga. The spiral coils again suggest the inherent dynamism of Shakti.
Another strong image that is widely used in Tantra to depict the complementary relationship between Shiva and Shakti is the shri-yantra. Here the five upward-pointing triangles represent Shiva, the four downward-pointing triangles Shakti. Their interweaving, giving rise to a total of forty-nine triangles, stands for cosmic existence as a whole.
What is significant for the present discussion is that in Hindu Tantra Shakti plays the active role, whereas Shiva, although aroused by Shakti's love play, remains passive and cool. He manifests the absolute stillness of Consciousness; she expresses the unlimited potency of Power or Energy. Together they symbolize the play of life and death, creation and annihilation, emptiness and form, dynamism and stasis. This interplay is found on all levels of cosmic existence because, as we have seen, it preexists in the ultimate Reality itself. As we move down the ladder of cosmic existence - from the transcendental to the subtle to the coarse levels of manifestation - the transcendental "polarity" increasingly becomes one of stark oppositions. The Sanskrit texts refer to the dvandvas (two-twos), which are pairs such as light and dark, hot and cold, moist and dry, but also praise and blame, fame and obscurity, and so on. Tantric practitioners must learn to master these by raising their consciousness from the material plane to the transcendental dimension of existence, which is characterized as nirdvandva, or beyond all opposites.
To return to the main discussion: Ontologically speaking, the "polarization" of the ultimate Reality into Shiva and Shakti is the matrix for the opposites experienced at the level of conditional reality. All polarities and dualities - notably male and female - that we can possibly encounter in the world are precontained in the Shiva-Shakti dimension. Psychologically speaking, the unitive relationship of Shiva and Shakti can be understood as a symbol for intra psychic unity or, in Jung's terms, the integration of animus and anima. We could say that because Shiva and Shakti are ultimately in perfect union, we are capable of achieving a similar union within our psyche. Conversely, because the ultimate Reality has these two aspects, our psyche also exhibits a feminine and a masculine side. As above, so below. As without, so within. Tantric metaphysics is also a metapsychology with far-reaching practical implications.By the way, on the topic, there is indeed a great dose of alchemy in there.

Quotes are from Tantra - The path to ecstasy (http://selfdefinition.org/tantra/Georg-Feuerstein-Tantra-The-Path-of-Ecstasy.pdf) by Georg Feuerstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Feuerstein), a book I picked up in India when my intuition led me into a random bookshop.

III
12-03-2012, 09:50 PM
Taoism.

Yoga.
Tantra.
Buddhism.
All the same thing.
Reverse apana.
master samadhi
Samadhi is easy.
Reversal of apana is where bliss and sexual transmutation begins.
Bliss in the physiological sense, is skin erection. When ever pore on your body stands on end with such intensity that an automatic smile/laughter comes out of you. Waves of it. That is physiological bliss.

No semen dosnt go up the spine. But every culture expressly says you cannot perform sexual transformation without reversal of part of the physiology.
My only logic conclusion of how to reverse "apana" as its called in yoga.
It to induce respiratory alkalosis through decarbonization of the blood. This effects the kidneys if sustained. It also causes flaccid paralysis. Flaccid paralysis is one of the key signs that you are ready to do tantra. "Only a man with no desire for woman is ready for tantra"

Anyway. I have done literal sexual transmutation. Your whole body turns solid red like the pictures of dakinis. I have never read anything publically available that helped. Well,publicly. Available and not written in code.

Hi Avaar,

There is something call the "sexual flush" that does indeed turn large areas of the body quite red, though not exactly the same as an artist painting with a solid red skin tone. The same artists are keen a blue skinned persons as well.

I've discussed these things with a Yogi friend who was not aware of any such amazing physiological, biochemical and other changes.



I have never read anything publically available that helped. Well,publicly. Available and not written in code.


I have read many things written as well as the authors were able to describe difficult things. Anyway, there are the written teachings, the spoken teachings, the unspoken teachings and the unspeakable teachings. I used to teach skiing. Much of that was unspeakable. Learning to hit a fast ball or curve ball is also an unspeakable teaching. So don't make assumptions about "unspeakable". It is meant in a quite literal sense in more than one way. This is why the lineage of ones Teacher can be of import. What set(s) of unspoken and unspeakable teachings one has received is far more important that what books one reads.


"Code" might not actually be a code. It might be jargon. If you consider it "code" than speaking metaphysics in an object oriented way might be considered another code meant to obscure when in fact it's meant to make comprehension easier. But it certainly would be a jargon, a group of words with specific meanings to this application without making up all new words. Elsewhere, Sanskrit is mentioned as having an incredibly rich vocabulary for spiritual things, single words for concepts taking many sentences in English. In speaking with my Yogi Friend, I had asked if I needed to learn Sanskrit to be able to have access to the concepts. After we had discussed metaphysics for 6 months he said that I didn't, that I had all the concepts needed in the language of the sciences, math, psychology and computer concepts. I'm part of a new generation which has a reconceptualization of the many old ideas. It is said that the teaching is put into the language of the times. I agree. I'm quite partial to the Vivekanada writings directly in English only a century old and not translated by anybody. Vivekanada was a universalist. He took all the teachings and showed the similarieties within them. That was not well received by some who wanted their Book to be special and different from all others. To be told that they flow from the same source was breaking a taboo. The British had been stomping down and creating a whole lot of new (to India and Indian Tantra) sexual and nudity taboos, all to be broken of course, but secretly, so as not to be persecuted and worse. A millenium earlier the Muslims stormed across India killing 300 million people and destroying many temples of sacred sexual art. Again, a whole new layer of taboos and secracy was needed to keep from being murdered.


Since then we have learned that the quite "magic" tantric meal is on critical and solid nutritional foundations and works because of nutrition primarily and not by overturning taboo. One gains "power" overturning taboos. Just consider Castenada's writings. A good chunk of Tantra, and shamanism, was turning fears and taboos on their head. Eating a nice juicy rare steak is my idea of part of a good meal. Eating it well done is a travesty, not a taboo breaker. I have no trapped energy on that to release and ride to great heights. 1000 years ago in India it was breaking a major taboo. And again today, my diet is rich enough in the nutrients specific to meat (and vitamin pills) that the Tantric meal has become purely symbolic since it can't provide the very real kick in the neurology that it did in a vegetarian society. Also, it is no taboo breaking at all. We don't have to eat Chateaubriand in secret to avoid being murdered by zealots.


In the USA we have religious freedom. The worst thing that will happen when people discover somebody has Tantric sex is that they will be the butt of a joke on late night TV or a scandal of a salacious and titliating type, like with Sting about a decade ago. But mostly, it is practiced by a nobody like me and nobody cares enough to be scandalized. So my kids discover that I have had sex? Isn't that kind of obvious? My wife's neice who was scandalized to find out that at 35 my wife and I were still having sex. She thought people were done with that by 30. I pointed to my infant son when she said that and said "Clearly we didn't quit at 30". She was about 25 just married.



But every culture expressly says you cannot perform sexual transformation without reversal of part of the physiology.

Every one of those cultures that says that knows NOTHING about phsyiology beyond a 18th century level. Transformational use of energies and biochemistry, sure. Reversal of phsiology, NONSENSE! Several hours of ecstacy will generate a large amount of endorphins, relieving pain for several days. It also gnenerates oxytocin, the "togetherness" etc hormone. Oxytocin also happens to counteract the harmful effects of cortisol, the stress hormone. Look at all the stress diseases we have in modern life. Who doesn't need relief from the physical harms of stress? Funny thing about that, oxytocin's breakdown path is to, guess what, endorphin! The "living water", that same semen, also potentially contains in 5 cc the same amount of active b12 as 1 liter of blood. That semen absorbed by anybody would relieves depression, not magically but via b12 and possibly other things. The 1-2 mcg of b12 could be quite an experience for a vegetarian as well. The "three medicines" (TAOIST) from the female, some of which is gnerated in equivalent tissues as the male and might contain the same b12. That hasn't been measured though becasue nobody is looking. At the time of Kinsey, in the USA, oral sex was another of those taboos. Now oral sex activities are extremely popular and not in the least Taboo. I would attribute that to better cleanliness. I'm not Napolean and I would not ask my lady to refrain from bathing for two weeks because I'm coming home as his letter to Josephine states. I can't stand anything that gamey, it's too much for my tastes.. Now that would be a powerful taboo to break. Nowadays, with modern cleanliness and grooming, and maybe other factors, there is no taboo on the act, just on the lack of cleanliness.


Perhaps I should be called a neuromancer Alchemist. Tantric alchemy makes large and significant changes. Tantra included healing arts, arts of all sorts, herbalism and so forth on. To find out the very real basis of healing of stress damage, of increasing vitality and healing the nervous system it could certainly look like parts of physiology are reversed. The nervous system controls the release of all these different things. Yoga in general could be called neuromancy. It is considered the "science of the mind". The b12 is the single most limiting nutritional factor in the human body. That and the generation of endorphins and Oxytocin could certainly look like magic and would dramatically affect the nurology, hormones, neurotransmitters, health and everything else. A person must have 2-3 mcg of b12 daily on average for survival. In the Japanese prsion camps b12 came from the "bug stew" that the imprsioned camp doctor would have simmering all the time for all the bugs and worms people could collect. Those that broke their taboos and ate a heaping spoonfull of bug stew each day survived. 100% of the others, without fail, died in the camps in which records were kept. It took a couple of years to starve to death on a totally b12 free diet. It takes only 3 days to start the downhill slide.

For the living yoni puja, a Tantric and Alchemical practice, the most revered women for it are the high priestesses who are not distracted by circumstance and not distracted by the "sexual" part of it. They have to stay focused on the prayful energies being sent their way and return those. It is setting up a circuit of multi-person prayerful energy flow.



My only logic conclusion of how to reverse "apana" as its called in yoga.
It to induce respiratory alkalosis through decarbonization of the blood. This effects the kidneys if sustained.


My experience of that is being quite non functional, I spent 16 years like that becasue of nutritional deficienies that almost killed me, was destructive of mystical and tantric experiences. You are welcome to this state however you get there. Usually I am working with people that want to recover their health, not make it worse and damage their kidneys. They want peak funtioning, not minimal to stay alive functioning. Ramakrishna was a remarkable Yogi despite his extremely bad b12 deficiencies that is terribly obvious in text and pictures. He was celibate. He was a devotee to Shiva and practiced living linga puja. Of course it helps to make a virtue of the inevitable (celibacy) due to unknown causes at that time. He couldn't have been a practitioner of heroic tantra if he wanted to. It would take a vegetarian culture to praise b12 starvation debility to the point of sexual impossibility due to dietary deficiencies that are NOT correctable as a vegetarian prior to 1960-1998 and later.


It also causes flaccid paralysis. Flaccid paralysis is one of the key signs that you are ready to do tantra. "Only a man with no desire for woman is ready for tantra"


I'm afraid that I can't possibly agree with your logic. As a neuromancer I would have to go with enhancement of functioning. L-carnitine fumarate with methylfolate, AdoCbl and MeCbl massively increases arobic stamina, neurological and muscular functioning and so forth in a completely health promoting fashion and increases spiritual experience. Maithuna would be impossible with what you say, Flaccid paralysis. This is a sign of poor health and a failing nervous system, severe b12 deficiency and assoicated other deficincies.


"Only a man with no desire for woman is ready for tantra"


So tantra is only for gay men or terribly sick and disordered heteros? I don't think so. Once that point is reached the body is in really bad condition and not at all suitable for yoga. It is said that yoga is for the healthy, not those so bad off that they can't function.


I am not currently involved with Hatha yoga. I manifest in the Raja and Jnana yoga with Tantra as a practice as a neuromancer Alchemist. That should explain it all or not.

Have fun, BE IN LOVE.

III
12-04-2012, 04:03 AM
I guess you are aware that a great part - or probably a majority - of Tantric practitioners are saddhus or monks who never have sex of any sort? But let someone more capable than I speak for me:

By the way, on the topic, there is indeed a great dose of alchemy in there.

Quotes are from Tantra - The path to ecstasy (http://selfdefinition.org/tantra/Georg-Feuerstein-Tantra-The-Path-of-Ecstasy.pdf) by Georg Feuerstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Feuerstein), a book I picked up in India when my intuition led me into a random bookshop.

Hi Ezalor,

I agree with most of what you quoted and I would say that is doing pretty well. There is a purely meditative form of Tantra that is celebate. However, how some of those monks define sex and celibacy may not be what you or many others may assume or so define. There is are in India 3 forms, heroic, celibate and I'm not sure where the 3rd form fits in. In Tibet it goes from sexual to learning to invoke a spirit for psychic sex of sorts. Sounds familiar in these days of virtual cybersex. Then there are Taoists.

Not everybody doing Tantra of any variety actually solves the mystery of what distinguishes an Alchemist. And the ones doing Tantric sex or sacred sex may be having more fun but are not likely doing anything Alchemical. Most monks who study Tantra don't get very far. Most monks don't make it very far in any of the yogas. A few yogis make it to Yogi. As the objective of the Yogi is quite different than that of the Alchemist so are what they do and their results. Also as in "All Sufis are equal but some are great Sufis." All Yogis are equal but some are great Yogis. ("Great Swan") as description. Then there are Alchemists. Don't assume that Tantric Alchemist and Tantric Yogi are the same thing. Also the difference between a "Great Swan" Yogi Like Ramikrisha or Paramahansa Yogananda, the two key Yogis in the 20th century revival of Advaita (non-dualism), and the more ordinary Yogi, is vast.

solomon levi
12-21-2012, 07:11 PM
I love how this song merges the spiritual and physical.
Come over, let's do yoga...
I hope you dig it III.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6p1kfbdj90

III
02-06-2013, 08:19 AM
I tired a new to me liqueur. There are some commercial varieties and home made variations. Brandy, with damiana, vanilla, cinnamon and some other flavoring ingrediants was really quite delightful. With a little smoked herb the effects of the damiana was really quite a pleasant surprise, a very nice tantric alchemical enhancement. My partner and I both found it a delight. She started 2 more small batches so we will have it in the months to come.


And thankyou for the link. Interesting video, I've never seen one like it.

Avatar
02-15-2013, 08:02 PM
Person above!
I am impressed!
I must say I have not had anyone intelligently
Reply to me for seven years.
You are very correct though!

The path I discribed was not the correct way.
As well when I said no lust I simply meant absence of lust.
anyway!

I believe I have learned the correct way. I will post more later.

Yes it still has to do with control of cellular respiration.
but!

Hyperventilation is good. extreme of it may be bad.
But it constructs blood vessels. Slows respiration.
Lowers co2 to a point where normal breathing will cease. Rids the body of metabolic waste.
And! It cools down the body. Yogicly it would be stimulating Ida.

I have within the last few days learned to stimulate the opposite.
To dilate blood vessals. Increasing heat and histamine.
and yes it is the histamine flush that must be the key to transformation.

When I first had this transformation, my body was solidly red.
solid red. Not patchy like most flushes. And not light colored
But dark solid red and refreshing.
Euphoria was had. Then physical vitality increase was semi permanent. Semi permanent because a month later I decided to rid myself of the increased vitality by ejaculating.

Anyway!

Naturally a man breaths on with less resistance yet exhails with more "pressure"
I simply do that at an increased rate to hyperventilate.
I do its opposite, breath out with little resistance,inhail with increased resistance. This seems to increase body heat.
Its kinda like mimicking the breathing of a man who sprinted a mile and is out of breath.
Or like mimicking a woman during orgasm.

I apologies for the previous post of mine about the path.
I am still working on finding the ultimate way.
Before I had only been "closing" now I can open and close. Heat and cool.
stimulate histamine and then shut it down.

III
03-09-2013, 07:46 AM
Person above!
I am impressed!
I must say I have not had anyone intelligently
Reply to me for seven years.
You are very correct though!

The path I discribed was not the correct way.
As well when I said no lust I simply meant absence of lust.
anyway!

I believe I have learned the correct way. I will post more later.

Yes it still has to do with control of cellular respiration.
but!

Hyperventilation is good. extreme of it may be bad.
But it constructs blood vessels. Slows respiration.
Lowers co2 to a point where normal breathing will cease. Rids the body of metabolic waste.
And! It cools down the body. Yogicly it would be stimulating Ida.

I have within the last few days learned to stimulate the opposite.
To dilate blood vessals. Increasing heat and histamine.
and yes it is the histamine flush that must be the key to transformation.

When I first had this transformation, my body was solidly red.
solid red. Not patchy like most flushes. And not light colored
But dark solid red and refreshing.
Euphoria was had. Then physical vitality increase was semi permanent. Semi permanent because a month later I decided to rid myself of the increased vitality by ejaculating.

Anyway!

Naturally a man breaths on with less resistance yet exhails with more "pressure"
I simply do that at an increased rate to hyperventilate.
I do its opposite, breath out with little resistance,inhail with increased resistance. This seems to increase body heat.
Its kinda like mimicking the breathing of a man who sprinted a mile and is out of breath.
Or like mimicking a woman during orgasm.

I apologies for the previous post of mine about the path.
I am still working on finding the ultimate way.
Before I had only been "closing" now I can open and close. Heat and cool.
stimulate histamine and then shut it down.

Hi Avaar,

Be careful. There are some "run away" reactions possible.

Avatar
03-09-2013, 11:16 PM
Ah yes.
My previous post was a flunk.
The method I used was not solid.
Happens from time to time.
Still searching for the solid core.

Orbital
06-16-2013, 06:25 PM
Mod Note: Off topic moved to this thread from HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1197-Sexual-orientation-and-Alchemy&p=30654#post30654)
____________________________________

III,

Thank you for your post. You've left me with a lot to ponder.
Is there such a thing as black tantra? If so, what is it? Or is there just tantra?
Does black tantra have to do with spilling of the semen?
I'd venture a guess that certain actions and practices are designed to achieve different results.


"Under the tutelage of an accomplished tantra teacher, the student learns to conserve and sublimate sexual energies. This is in stark contrast to black tantra, where the sexual energies are allowed to spill through into orgasm.

'Rati Rahasyam' states that tantra awakens consciousness to the absence of our desires, while black tantra awakens consciousness to our inner-most desires. In other words, this path can put one on a slippery slope towards ignorance, as it concludes with orgasm/ejaculation in order to awaken consciousness. However, it must not be seen as an aberrant offshoot of the original discipline. Rather, it worthwhile viewing it as a means to engage in profound love-making rites with deities via meditation. After years of such advanced practice, we begin to experience siddhis or supernatural powers that can help us on our journey to samadhi - or spiritual realization.

What emerges is that the practice of tantra or any of its variants without proper tutelage from a qualified tantra master can lead to much distress. There are no shortcuts, and every variant has its place in the overall scheme of things. However, only an accomplished tantra master can chart the journey for you for optimum spiritual benefit."


Can you please shed some light on this above quote for me, based on your own experience?

III
06-18-2013, 03:09 AM
Mod Note: Off topic moved to this thread from HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1197-Sexual-orientation-and-Alchemy&p=30654#post30654)
____________________________________

III,

Thank you for your post. You've left me with a lot to ponder.
Is there such a thing as black tantra? If so, what is it? Or is there just tantra?
Does black tantra have to do with spilling of the semen?
I'd venture a guess that certain actions and practices are designed to achieve different results.


"Under the tutelage of an accomplished tantra teacher, the student learns to conserve and sublimate sexual energies. This is in stark contrast to black tantra, where the sexual energies are allowed to spill through into orgasm.

'Rati Rahasyam' states that tantra awakens consciousness to the absence of our desires, while black tantra awakens consciousness to our inner-most desires. In other words, this path can put one on a slippery slope towards ignorance, as it concludes with orgasm/ejaculation in order to awaken consciousness. However, it must not be seen as an aberrant offshoot of the original discipline. Rather, it worthwhile viewing it as a means to engage in profound love-making rites with deities via meditation. After years of such advanced practice, we begin to experience siddhis or supernatural powers that can help us on our journey to samadhi - or spiritual realization.

What emerges is that the practice of tantra or any of its variants without proper tutelage from a qualified tantra master can lead to much distress. There are no shortcuts, and every variant has its place in the overall scheme of things. However, only an accomplished tantra master can chart the journey for you for optimum spiritual benefit."


Can you please shed some light on this above quote for me, based on your own experience?

Hi Orbital,

Now for a second try with the first disappeared into cyberspace due to a sign in conflict on a different tab. First, let me say that it does take a qualified teacher to "catalyze" a person. Also there are hazards. On reading the whole thing it almost sounds like what he is calling "black Tantra" which I have never heard of,, but that could be purely ignorance on my part due to limited reading. However, his description makes it sound like he is avoiding the purification process in which all of ones blockages and attachments and such rise to the surface to be changed or removed but then says there is a place for all variants.

In Alchemy there is a time to not ejaculate and a time to ejaculate. The whole business of ejaculation and energies suffer from millennia of trying to say things to fit the local prejudices and lack of explicit explanations of neurology and physiology until the current mishmash is confusing at best. All of the old explanations have an incorrect understanding of refractory period after ejaculation. If you search there is a moderately long discussion all about ejaculation and the effects and misunderstandings. I see pretty much nowhere discussing the right way from the wrong way of not ejaculating.

One estimate I saw by an Alchemist who is also a Jungian therapist is that 99% are in the USA are teaching "Sacred Sex" or whatever and completely ignore the alchemical and mystical. Again the books are mentioned in some of the lengthy posts.

Orbital
06-18-2013, 05:07 AM
Thank you for your thoughts III, and thank you Androgynus for your humility (I also thought my post got sucked into the abyss of cyberspace).
This teacher does touch on and places emphasis on cleansing before he works with a student.
He says he's a tantra master from a direct lineage of tantra teachers of old based in India.
Here is a link to the site from which I posted the quote here.

http://www.tantrasadhana.com/


I also heard this today on a podcast I d/l'd from Urban Guru Cafe, which I thought was incredibly profound. Ironically, it brought a lot of stuff I posted earlier full
circle to me from the, "sexual orientation and alchemy" thread.

http://podbay.fm/show/335548344/e/1237190617