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solomon levi
11-22-2012, 08:19 AM
LOL! Now I've done it!
I'd like to be judged by a jury of my peers. :)
Anyone?

Devil's advocate: In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position. It can also refer to someone who takes a stance that is seen as unpopular or unconventional, but is actually another way of arguing a much more conventional stance. - wikipedia

And we have the Catholic church to thank for this wonderful term! :)

I'm not associated with any group or school or organisation. I'm not a member of any masons
or Illuminati or anything like that. I'm just sharing the view from a place of not-knowing.

What is the Illuminati? Who really knows?
I imagine it is a group of well-educated and well financed people who have some knowledge
and opinions about how the world should be, or simply have the power to lead it towards
what they want.

Is anyone really denied this knowledge? Doesn't it make sense that if they can manipulate
masses, they must "know themselves"? Otherwise how would they sell us what we want/need
if they didn't know us? and know more than us?

If they know more than us, how do you know your idea of right and good is better than theirs?

Can they really be such masters of the material and so poor in spirit? I don't think so.
I think this is the common view held of them, but it doesn't add up for me.
The more magical I become, the more I understand these things.
I choose not to influence others, save by sharing and being myself.
That doesn't make everyone else wrong.
This whole idea of good and bad or white and black magic is relative BS.
God is One. All magic comes from one source: magic is simply knowing/science (latin scientia = knowledge).
Making fire was once magical. Flying metal ships once seemed magical. Electricity was once magical...


Anyway, I don't know or have beliefs about who the Illuminati are or whether they are right or wrong.
If it's happening, then it's happening. That's as much as i know.
And All that ever happens is God, so I'm not worried about it.
If I had a problem with people knowing more than me, then I guess I would study more
instead of asking/blaming them to know less.
If i don't want people controlling me, I just learn to control myself.
It's not up to others to give me what I want.
This is a world of agreements - a world of individuals and collectives.
Government (overt or covert) is a manifestation of that fact.
It's not right or wrong.
If you don't understand that, you don't "deserve" a better place...
That understanding IS a better place.
The Youniverse is set up this way - see for yourself.
No one is forcing anyone to comply; even if you don't like the option of being murdered -
you still have a choice. You live in a world that martyrs have influenced, but you don't
want to be the martyr? :) I understand. That's your choice. Be happy with it. It is yours.
You are free to choose it. Why complain?

I know I'm walking on the edge here. Don't be offended. I'm just one voice.
You can ignore me or admire me. It doesn't matter.
You might say I'm very opinionated when it comes to blaming others or assuming responsibility
for oneself. Or you might say I'm arguing for your Godself.
I've just seen some principles, and this is one: "You cannot change what you are not willing to
assume responsibility for." That should be obvious/apparent, but it's not. Weird.
So when you blame another, you GIVE them the power. Is this what an intelligent
person would practice? Giving power to people and ideas they disagree with?
If you don't want to be asleep/a sheep :) then wake up to what you are doing with your intention.
I promise you "they" know this. And obviously they are not breaking any universal laws by
taking advantage of the fact. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's one option among billions.

Anyway, the more magical/intentional I become, I often find myself understanding what the
Illuminati is, because I am coming into the option of power myself. Any group of magicians
is an "Illuminati". I'm sure some of them battle eachother all the time for supremacy.
Battles within battles to hide who is at the top of the pyramid.
The Illuminati is hardly at the top. I'm sure they'd love for you to think so. :)
If you have an opinion of how the world SHOULD be, then you are not unlike them.
If you seek agreement, then you seek your own little cult, which may one day become a big
cult or government or religion.
Whose Utopia is the right one? Whose New World Order? Everyone has opinions.
Try not to get caught up in it. What you resist persists.
If you know yourself, you know how to be free of Illuminati.
Or how to be in the world and not of it.
Or how to respect the rules of the house without necessarily agreeing with them...
All conditions are equal when compared to the unconditioned.
It really doesn't matter what world I live in. I am free.
I freed myself. No one did it for me.
I didn't, nor do I, ask anyone's agreement on the matter of my freedom.
All of you are free as well.
You're even free not to know that you are free.
What will you do with your freedom?
Fight? Complain? Seek agreement? Seek disagreement? Be in peace?

I love you.

I wonder how many times the Illuminati has saved the planet? Maybe? I don't know.
I do know the earth is here now, so they haven't destroyed it like everyone seems worried about.
The earth is higher on the pyramid than the Illuminati.
But then Jesus was higher than Pontias Pilate.
According to the myth, he didn't deny that he was one with God to save his own ass/body.
Peter, on the other hand, denied Christ three times to save his ass.
We're all free to choose our physical bodies over our spiritual bodies, or vice-versa.
The earth is free to choose too.

solomon levi
11-22-2012, 08:33 AM
Castaneda's don Juan said, "When you're in the tonal world, you should be an impeccable tonal; there is no time for irrational garbage.
But when you are in the nagual world, you should also be impeccable; there is no time for rational shit..."

The Illuminati certainly seem to have mastered the tonal world.
What reasons do we have to believe they're not masters of the Nagual world?
How would you possibly begin to judge what a master of the Nagual world would be like?
Rationality does not exist there.

What if they are capable of playing games AND being free; being impeccable in both worlds?
I just played pool yesterday. It didn't upset my freedom.
I have an ego/tonal, but it isn't all that I am.

solomon levi
11-22-2012, 08:47 AM
My whole point of this thread is that if you believe in an Illuminati with
nefarious designs on you and the world, then you are subjectively living
in that world and influencing others to live in it as well.
Maybe that's the whole problem.
The Illuminati might not even exist.
Your version of the Illuminati may not be accurate.
Maybe you are the sorcerer, spreading all this propaganda. :)

If you want freedom, start spreading that message - that we are all already free.
If you want a more loving, respectful world, spread that message.
Stop spreading how the Illuminati is making everything terrible.
It's not true anyway - not if you know yourself.
You are God. You're the only one doing anything to you.
Some call that the observer effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)
Some call it freedom or dreaming or the freedom to dream.

solomon levi
11-22-2012, 09:30 AM
I've heard the argument that the observer effect, or uncertainty principle,
takes care of the subjective, but what about the objective world?
It's great that I can live in a perfect subjective world, but what about
the injustices going on in the external world?

Well, first, I've no reason or proof to believe in an external objective world.
The observer effect is proof/evidence to the contrary.
What proof is there that the world is other than subjective?
Obviously if it wasn't subjective, we would all agree on one objective world.
That's not my experience or yours. Will you deny experience?
If you deny experience, no wonder people take advantage of you.
You've made yourself available.
Like people having fun at the expense of a hypnotised person... aren't you "guilty" of it?

Second, "as within, so without".
Does it really seem more reasonable to change the whole world first and then yourself?
What other option is there? Why not try it and see what happens to the "external" world?
It's easier than trying to change the whole world. It can be done in one lifetime, unlike
changing the whole world... :)

Third, there is an objective world. But the subjective ego/mind cannot know it.
Free yourself of subjectivity and then we'll talk about it. Until then, it only exists
as a subjective idea in your subjective imagination.
I've never met anyone who used the words "objective imagination". I'd like to meet them. :)

The physical world is the conditioned world. It is conditioned by subjectivity. The objective
world is unconditioned, thus there isn't much to say about it. One certainly wouldn't imagine
that the Illuminati is f***ing up the unconditioned world. Just as wise, one wouldn't imagine
someone else is f***ing up the subjective world. :)

This wisdom leads to the unavoidable conclusion that there are no victims or tyrants in any real
world, subjective or objective. :) They are therefore the imagined products of a confused mind -
a mind which con-fuses the subjective and objective into one insane illusory world.
It's ok. We all do it. Insanity is a prerequisite for this place. Sanity is optional. :)
Hey! I just made a new quote!

zoas23
11-22-2012, 10:45 PM
The Illuminati belong to a time in which "Secret Organizations" became the shape in which the revolutionaries organized themselves.
i.e, the independences of most countries in the American Continent were organized by revolutionaries who organized themselves in lodges.
This is probably because they felt that they were free to talk about dangerous ideas under an oath of secrecy.
Then again, this is very much the same thing that the Ku Klux Klan did.
(yeah, there were left wing and right wing organizations).

Most of these lodges had nothing "spiritual" in them, they were simply political organizations that simply had a "ritual" and "initiations" to create cohesion.

Some Organizations nowadays still have the "nostalgia" of those times... but the world isn't ruled by that kind of "secret organizations" nowadays.

To be honest, my opinion is that "Secret Organization" that work with "initiations" and have "rituals" and whose only aim is to have political influence... are quite laughable nowadays.... and a lot of organizations were spoiled when they decided to take that path.

Andro
11-22-2012, 10:56 PM
This may be an interesting reading for some: The Occult Technology Of Power (http://www.rexresearch.com/articles/ocultech.htm).

Although most likely a work of fiction, it may nevertheless be very educational IMO.

Orbital
11-25-2012, 01:27 AM
Anyway, the more magical/intentional I become, I often find myself understanding what the
Illuminati is, because I am coming into the option of power myself. Any group of magicians
is an "Illuminati". I'm sure some of them battle eachother all the time for supremacy.
Battles within battles to hide who is at the top of the pyramid.
The Illuminati is hardly at the top. I'm sure they'd love for you to think so.
If you have an opinion of how the world SHOULD be, then you are not unlike them.
If you seek agreement, then you seek your own little cult, which may one day become a big
cult or government or religion.
Whose Utopia is the right one? Whose New World Order? Everyone has opinions.
Try not to get caught up in it. What you resist persists.
If you know yourself, you know how to be free of Illuminati.
Or how to be in the world and not of it.
Or how to respect the rules of the house without necessarily agreeing with them...
All conditions are equal when compared to the unconditioned.
It really doesn't matter what world I live in. I am free.
I freed myself. No one did it for me.
I didn't, nor do I, ask anyone's agreement on the matter of my freedom.
All of you are free as well.
You're even free not to know that you are free.
What will you do with your freedom?
Fight? Complain? Seek agreement? Seek disagreement? Be in peace?



I agree with this, and I love you too Solomon Levi.


To be honest, my opinion is that "Secret Organization" that work with "initiations" and have "rituals" and whose only aim is to have political influence... are quite laughable nowadays....

Zoas, I'm having a hard time making sense of why you think these groups who conspire to have influence over those who have influence over the masses is laughable nowadays. Was it ok a hundred or a thousand years ago, but nowadays it's not cool?

I think everyone forgets one of the first stories they learn when studying philosophy. Socrates was made to drink the poison hemlock for corrupting the youth. The system that is in place now is basically the same system that was in place then. Socrates drank that shit because he was waking people up, but he wasn't just waking up the average citizens... he was waking up aristocratic children, and that was dangerous. So he felt obliged to drink that stuff. We live in a society where more than half the average citizens have below average IQ. The school system is designed to make parrots. The fuckin skies are being blasted with chemicals, and no one really knows or cares about it... hell, no one even really bothers to look up. We can say that we have a choice to be free and see things for how they really are, but the bridge to that freedom is in need of repair and is falling apart.

When someone shines a light on a certain area and wants you to only know what exists in that area the light is shown... that is illumination. Pay no attention to all the stuff outside of the light children, just look at what we want you to see. Illumination or enlightenment?

Anyone else here a fan of Robert Anton Wilson???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9h2eNHB4vY

III
11-28-2012, 05:59 PM
The Illuminati - hmmmm. Whats to say? Are there illuminated beings? Sure. Do they get together and consipire on all sorts of petty egoshit? I doubt it. Ego dominate idiots conspire for power and money. I would suggest that genuinely illuminated beings have more important things to do. There are a lot of pretenders who aside from being potentially violent and dangerous and ego driven, want to be perceived as powerfull by reason of illumination. Most of the secret societies are just plain silly with handshakes, rings and ties and crap to identify each other. I would say that all those things are indicative of fakery at one level or another. We can build a structure in which meaning alternates at each level, fake, fake to mislead members, fake to mislead public but not memebers, hiding the real within the obvious fake. Who knows what any of it means.

So where is the organization of Bodisatvas. Or is that an oxymoron? Why would they need an organization? What would they do if they had a group? Have dinner and a prayer circle once a year? They know why they are here. Do they EVER need to talk about it? Do they ever need to gather in person? Why?

They certainly don't need to talk about how great they are or worldy power.

zoas23
11-28-2012, 06:28 PM
Zoas, I'm having a hard time making sense of why you think these groups who conspire to have influence over those who have influence over the masses is laughable nowadays. Was it ok a hundred or a thousand years ago, but nowadays it's not cool?

Yeah. Times change.

I can give you an easy example with an organization we all probably hate a lot, but that may offer a good example: the KKK.

When the KKK was created, its structure, initiations, use of semi-masonic rituals, regalia, etc... probably made sense. I mean, it's not that I think the KKK was good, I simply mean that it made sense for those who were racists in America to organize themselves using that type of structure.

Nowadays the KKK still exists, mostly based on nostalgia. But, as an organization, it even makes most of the white suprematists feel ashamed.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against the so called "secret organizations"... but I think that nowadays it is stupid to have any of them working specially on politics... and that other means are by far better these days.

It may not make sense to you, but it's a fact that times change and that some things that made sense in the past don't make sense these days. A perfect example of another type came to my mind:

I do REALLY love the Animal Liberation Front... but I do also think that the ALF needs to change a lot nowadays.

When the ALF was created the idea was to have a non-centralized organization working with autonomous cells that, among other things, were able to destroy the property of the industries that injured or killed animals. That was perceived as cool in the 70's... the actions of the ALF were even used as "propaganda".
The year 2001 and the World Trade Center and the rise of "Islamic Terrorism" made anything that looks in any way close to "terrorist strategies" look pretty bad.
So some of the typical actions of the ALF looked pretty good back in the 70's... and they were even a good propaganda for the Animal Rights movement... but nowadays the perceptions have changed a lot.

Andro
11-28-2012, 09:44 PM
times change and [...] some things that made sense in the past don't make sense these days.

I'll just quote myself quoting (on another thread) a relevant quote from a movie that quotes from a book :)

From 'The Way of the Samurai' (a.k.a. 'Hagakure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure)'), as seen in the movie 'Ghost Dog':


It is said that what is called "the spirit of an age" is something to which one cannot return.
That this spirit gradually dissipates is due to the world's coming to an end.
For this reason, although one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done.
Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation.

III
11-29-2012, 12:36 AM
times change and [...] some things that made sense in the past don't make sense these days.I'll just quote myself quoting (on another thread) a relevant quote from a movie that quotes from a book :)

It is said that what is called "the spirit of an age" is something to which one cannot return. That this spirit gradually dissipates is due to the world's coming to an end. For this reason, although one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation.


From 'The Way of the Samurai' (a.k.a. 'Hagakure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure)'), as seen in the movie 'Ghost Dog'

Hi Androgynus,

The world "consensus" or "spririt of an age" certainly does change, very noticably. I remember the many different versions of this consensus, just within my lifetime. The 50s were radically different from the present. The local consensus in Utah is radically different from many areas of the country. I can feel the difference. It is far more abrasive and painful than any where else I have been (USA), as I am NOT in the local consensus and am quite counter to it in most ways.

Right now I feel a lot of changes occurring in this consensus. It is being changed faster than I have ever seen it change before. As Zoas23 said about 9/11, things sometimes events change things very fast. Fear, however is a bad Master. Right now the factions fighting, as far as I can observe, are those who want to change to the new version opposed to those who want it to remain in the old as they fear their power will evaporate. Right now change in the consensus is happening so rapidly that violence often seems the only thing fast enough to try to hold it off. There is of course no way to stop the changes as they are coming about. So we have various degrees of local energies overlaid the backgroud of the COS (Cosmic Operating System for want of some other neutral name) enrgies. If we are indeed transitioning to THE AGE OF TRUE MAN as the Mayans called the coming age according to a book on the Mayan Metaphysics from a university press by an author who made a lot of sense to me that lasts for 143 nonillion years. Measured in a physical world with a physical sun that is an impossibly long time. In a virtual holodeck, why not? Perhaps it's changing to Simulcron 3 and there will be another speed of light decompression algorythm applied to the at least 2 already there effectively increasoing the total runtime of the system that much larger. Perhaps that is nothing like it at all and all that indicates is that this is a virtual holodeck or maybe that the timespan goes with the beings, not the specific world form.

So if the illuminati were involved they would be involved in fighting out the local consensus trying to get it to favor themselves as most all parties appear to be attempting. I don't see how they could affect the COS. We are all involved in that just by being whatever we be, not what we think we believe or want.

Orbital
12-03-2012, 11:56 PM
Once again, illuminati is likened to shining a light in one spot and having the viewer focus on the area that is lit. Pay no attention to anything outside the light. That's what illumination means. Which is why the mainstream media is so tide to the whole illuminati thing. Culture is given from the top down in most cases, not from the bottom up... especially in modern times. Just watch some tv, listen to some mainstream music, or go see a mainstream movie.. they're illuminating people in a way through "programming". Production companies are behind movies/ tv/ various other art that the producers want you to see.. that they want to get into your mind. Most of us here have made it past that stuff, so we can have these fun philosophical rants about how things just seem to happen for no apparent reason... or perhaps things take place through a general consenus. Which I agree with... up to a point.

If I were a multi-billionaire what better way to illuminate the world to my way of thinking than through mass advertisement. There's a sucker born every minute..

Andro
08-27-2014, 10:45 AM
Related to this thread and also a must-read IMO:

The Crowd (http://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/lebon/Crowds.pdf) by Gustave Le Bon (published in 1896).

Edward Bernays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays), the 20th century 'master of propaganda' (a.k.a. "PR" / "Public Relations") was a student of this book.

Interesting to notice that both Bernays and Le Bon were very long lived, Bernays lived to be almost 104 and Gustave Le Bon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Le_Bon) died at 90.

Apparently, Hitler read this book and Mussolini was consulting it frequently.

So read it (http://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/lebon/Crowds.pdf) if you wish to study in-depth the methodology used to control (or evolve?) you :)

DonSweet
10-16-2014, 04:57 AM
Okay ... hopefully just a brief reply.

After scanning the original post (that's quite a dissertation Solomon Levi) and an equally quick scan of others, unless I missed it, I didn't see any mention of "elitism." which I would consider the main thrust of the point. It's being discussed, skirted, but not viewed or discussed head on, as I feel it should be.

There can be no discussion of any group remotely described as the Illuminati without the glaring fact of their unquestionable elitist status and their self-established position ... Note: Self-Established ... and by force.

Sure, any well-resourced (wealthy) and educated (by whatever encyclopedia of information) group of individuals that wields socioeconomic, political, judicial (and by default, military) power can easily be construed as "better" than the average schmuck ... but ... by making that definition at all defines "elitism" itself, which was the goal of such a group in the first place ... to put themselves above (and in control of) all others.

This is fine if you have any inkling to either support or even believe in a forced hierarchy.

Personally, I don't.

I resist any forced hierarchy with every fiber of my being, neither do I wish to force it on others, no matter what my station in life or any circumstance that might compare to theirs.

Now ...

A hierarchy based on [mutual] respect, that's another matter. That's consent. That's acknowledging either your own or another's so-called superiority ... but I caution that I only grant such respect if it is earned ... and I mean that both in myself and in others. If you have not earned the position, by means of my respect of you, for you to tell me what to do, you may not tell me what to do ... neither should I wield such an imposition on you if I haven't earned your respect.

Simple, isn't it?

So why should I let this "Illuminati" wield power over me and intentionally, with their own will and design, directly or indirectly manipulate my world? Why would I allow or accept that without the slightest knowledge of who they are or how they came to this power?

"That's just the way it is," doesn't cut it for me ... not even close. Don't even begin to use the word "freedom" on a planet with an entire race of beings thoroughly manipulated and controlled by unseen human powers. No such condition of freedom could exist, therefore the use of the word is useless. Any aspect of freedom under those conditions are entirely delusional.

When every aspect, nook and cranny of life is externally controlled, there is no freedom.

Now ...

Do we even need freedom? Aren't things just wonderful with all our industry, standard of living, interstate highways and neat toys to indulge ourselves? ... Transportation, hundreds of miles an hour ... Food, refrigerators packed ... Housing, strong roofs with thermostats, picture windows and comfy couches.

Ain't it all just dandy? Who needs this freedom shit when the Illuminati has constructed and manipulated this world so that we can be so comfortable?

Utter horsecrap.

It's a DElusion, not even an ILLusion. The whole fucking thing is falling apart. It doesn't even "work" right. It's entirely dysfunctional and unsustainable. It was DESIGNED to fail from the start. The whole thing ... instituted literally by the worldwide institutionalized Illuminati ... was created exclusively for instant, personal gratification ... and nothing else. To hell with future generations. To hell with a living planet. Take it all. Live well. Consume and be happy for it. Live for the moment ... and worse ... "Live in the Now."

Utter horsecrap.

Utter delusional horsecrap.

Why are we here?

This is the question.

Are we -- are you -- part of something larger than yourself? Or are you just you doing whatever it is that you do, largely making yourself happy?

What is happy? Is joy becoming a 600 pound blob of flesh in front of a television set? Is joy cranking up your heat to 80 degrees in the winter on unsustainable fuels because you like to be warm? What is happy? Slobbering down unhealthy-but-good-tasting meal after gluttonous unhealthy-but-good-tasting meal while children starve?

This is the instant gratification world your precious Illuminati has created for you ... what they WANT from us ... "Shut up. Learn nothing. Consume what we tell you. Work when we tell you ... and DIE when we tell you."

We should be grateful for THAT??

We should be grateful for the vision of our lives by these self-serving elitists?

I should have the remotest respect for THAT??

Sorry ... ya lost me on that one ... even the discussion of it. It shouldn't even be a topic OF discussion.

Much of Alchemy is "observation." I unequivocally observe that these elitist bastards should vanish, based on the vast ocean of festering human waste they have created. Should human beings have been left to their own devices to learn and advance -- not be manipulated into utter servitude to an elite class -- we'd have been exploring the outer reaches of space for half a millennia by now.

Think back on the knowledge lost by these pricks warring among themselves ... the burned cities ... and libraries ... and humans of knowledge slaughtered in the name of their aberrant, malignant causes.

THAT is your Illuminati ... and no, it's not simply the group formed in the 1770's. They've been around and working together for a long, long time. The so-called Illuminati is just one of their recent incarnations.

Fuck the elite ... and everything they stand for ...

... and fuck forced hierarchy.

Earn my respect. Don't shove it down my throat at the point of a sword, however that sword may be configured.

Awani
10-16-2014, 10:17 AM
There are TWO illuminata. One is dead or in self-imposed exile, the other live and kicking and this is the one you want to fuck off and I agree.

But also I don't agree because no one is controlling us, no one is making us a fat blob in front of the TV. The blame must be placed on the blob not on the illuminata (1 or 2).

:cool:

Krisztian
10-16-2014, 02:20 PM
Several years back (I think, '05, '08), on a Russian speaking Forum, the following dialogue occurred, now translated into very rough English, here: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1379336/pg1

Aside from this, the more these discussions make people angry, fearful, upset, engage in the "fight the power" talks, the more those very people actually 'fall victim', play into, serve this type of energy grid mechanism. So in a very real way, the very people that are "fighting againts it" are actually creating more of the control grid.

DonSweet
10-16-2014, 06:03 PM
Krisztian ...

Agreed. If anyone gives any validity to "The Law of Attraction," it doesn't discriminate. If you think (feel) conflict, you will get conflict.

My momentary foray into anger was just that, momentary. Generally, I simply ignore (as best I can) the paradigm that surrounds me.

And dev ...

It's not control like puppets on a string, it's setting conditions. Another way to put it is limiting options, making us ignorant of any other options.

You can get a job, or stay at home and be a bum, or risk self-employment and possible bankruptcy. Three limited options, when the conditions themselves are the trap.

A lack of resources is one of their key tools, and piggybacked to that is the fear of the loss of what little you have access to. This can be money, food, energy, or any other resource you need or even simply want, including information. This sets the paradigm ...

... but the paradigm isn't direct control. It's a prison without physical walls. You are not free. These intentionally imposed limitations direct you to a limited set of choices, implying that you have choice when you don't.

The biggest lie of them all is Americans touting (and often shouting) their freedom. It's utter delusion. Stop paying your property taxes, "your" property gets repossessed. Even the use of the word "re-possessed" says it all. You never possessed it in the first place. That's clearly rent on something that was never yours from the start, yet you were called the "owner." It's simply a delusional lie.

"Electing" government representatives is also a blatant falsehood. You're presented with [generally] two choices, hand-picked by the elite. That's a choice? I think not. Chocolate or vanilla, period.

Also, look up the meaning of the word "fiat" when applied to money ... another manufactured falsehood, backed by nothing other than a so-called declaration of the entity printing it. It's so-called value out of thin air. That, and a "fractionalized monetary system," where every cent circulated carries debt, destined to bankrupt the entire system by channeling the value of every resource available, including human labor, to a single destination ... the elite.

I'm not making this shit up. This is real. We're living this. Every word and instance was artificially manufactured by the elite.

It's about control.


Period.

Krisztian
10-16-2014, 07:15 PM
Agreed. If anyone gives any validity to "The Law of Attraction," it doesn't discriminate. If you think (feel) conflict, you will get conflict.

I actually wasn't thinking about that. I mean, that the currency that has any value for other lifeforms that I believe these beings fit into, is energy. So that there's a real benefit - for this "group" - to have people, humanity, being radically emotional, labile, for that is sustenance, food, true currency.

Money isn't it. That's only for those 'puppets' that we can identify, name, in the media. That's not who I refer to.


My momentary foray into anger was just that, momentary. Generally, I simply ignore (as best I can) the paradigm that surrounds me.

Comment wasn't directed towards you, DonSweet.

Dialogue is good.

Awani
10-17-2014, 01:48 PM
You can get a job, or stay at home and be a bum, or risk self-employment and possible bankruptcy. Three limited options, when the conditions themselves are the trap.

Don't understand what you mean by risk self-employment? And why there are only three options? Why are they limited?

:cool:

DonSweet
10-18-2014, 05:08 AM
Well dev ...

Aren't there three main choices for your adult life? Once you become one, what are they?

There's a job, naturally, and almost as naturally (although I might disagree) most people choose that.

Of course, there's the no job choice. That, in essence, makes one a bum, on Welfare in the U.S. (or walking the streets homeless) and I believe they call it "The Dole" in the U.K.

But there's also the in between, which is really a sort of a hybrid ... work a while, bum a while ... but in essence, it's still a work/job choice ... even if that choice is artist or musician.

Other than attempting self-employment, those are your two choices. Even children of extremely wealthy parents are largely expected to work in some fashion, with some exceptions, of course.

Self-employment is an automatic high risk, potentially exponentially more risky than a job. This from someone who has been self-employed since 1979. Believe me, nothing is automatic or even remotely reliable in self-employment. You can lose decades of hard work in a heartbeat on the slightest turn of unforeseen events, despite how vigorously you attempt to foresee.

If, in fact, you are fortunate/lucky/smart enough to "make it" in self-employment, it's only relevant if you reach the stage of being able to accumulate a "Fuck You Stash." Otherwise, you'll simply continue to work until retirement like any other employed schmuck. If you're a plumber merely making a living, it's only one degree of separation from punching a time clock. You're still indentured.

A "Fuck You Stash" is enough capital built up that you can live off the interest or earnings and not work (or not work in the traditional sense). It's actually quite a popular process in the entertainment business to build your portfolio, whether behind the camera or in front of it, then get the hell out with your Stash. You can easily think back on actors you saw for five or ten years you don't see anymore. They got their Stash and got out. Acting (or producing/directing) is very much like self-employment, save a weekly series or similar where you're contracted annually ... then again, you're contracted and not simply "employed." But too, you can become successful in regular, normal employment to build up such capital. I've heard of several people, personally, that have done it, then they've simply built their Stash, quit and retired, often at fairly young ages.

Anyway ... even plumbers can build a Stash ... or ... build their business to a value to sell it off, acquiring a Stash. My father built pre-fabricated steel buildings in the Miami area and retired to North Carolina with a Stash. It can work in almost any business if done properly ... if you actually know to do it. Many people simply fall into the trap of believing they're worthless if they're not "working" and work to so-called retirement age anyway. What they do not realize is that they can do anything with their lives if they set their minds to it. But "the paradigm" has instilled the so-called work ethic so deeply that people literally feel shame if they're not working, and in a certain expected fashion, generally servitude to the economic system.

As Alchemists, you and I both know that "work" has many definitions, meanings and implications ... not all of them servitude to an economic system.

"Working" is a natural human impulse. We derive joy from it. However, few see the act of work outside the "work ethic," which has been established and ground into our braincells from birth.

What if "work" was whatever we each individually wanted to do or accomplish? ... whatever it is that gives us joy? ... or helps those around us? ... or benefits Mankind? ... or nature? ... or feeds children? ... or gets us closer to exploring space?

Most of us do NOT have that choice. We get the menu of 28 flavors ... pick one ... become an accountant, or pharmacist, or meat packer ... and eat it for the rest of our lives.

(And yes, I'd include housewife, or the ever-popular "stay-at-home-mom," in the category of Job.)

You get three choices when you mature past adolescence, and even with those they pigeon-hole your options.

Rare is the exception.

Ghislain
10-18-2014, 11:38 AM
I Agree with most of what you say there DonSweet...I think this is what inspired the post, can't remember where on here I saw it, but it was from Richard Buckminster Fuller 1895-1983:


We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.

Ghislain

Awani
10-18-2014, 06:09 PM
Ok I get you DonSweet.


Self-employment is an automatic high risk, potentially exponentially more risky than a job. This from someone who has been self-employed since 1979. Believe me, nothing is automatic or even remotely reliable in self-employment. You can lose decades of hard work in a heartbeat on the slightest turn of unforeseen events, despite how vigorously you attempt to foresee.

I think the above is highly incorrect. Life is a risk. Every human being is self-employed in the Corporation of the I (the self). Other than your life what can you really loose? If one thing fails just start another thing.

I think I agree with your outlook on the concept of work... and like Andy Warhol said: "the most important thing is work" *

*real work that is

:cool:

DonSweet
10-19-2014, 05:57 AM
A pleasant, civilized response dev ...

**smile**

The vast majority of my posts in this thread have been about perspective. My mention of "high risk" was no different.

By making your contrary observation, it's clear you do not have an average perspective. You understand risk better than most.

The "high risk" is the perception presented to the average person when making their life choice. I've spoken to many, many people who are literally deer-in-the-headlights as to how I live self-employed. They simply can't fathom it. There's a slew of fear of self-employment out in the general population ... and that fear is based on the potential failure. It literally terrifies many people from self-employment.

As you can see, having worked for myself for 35 years, "terror" hardly works into my daily mindset over my lifestyle. If it did, I wouldn't do it either ... but I have to admit that there's been times I've literally suffered PTSD from some of my business experiences. When you work THAT hard and things fall apart, there's a recovery process. It's not new to me, but that doesn't make it any easier.

I've told some of these people, "Two weeks in my life would KILL you."

In some instances, I'm absolutely certain it would ... if not get them hauled away to the funny farm.

DonSweet
11-03-2014, 06:26 PM
By the way dev ...

A minor note on your post ...

You state that, "Every human being is self-employed in the Corporation of the I ..." and based on what I've said in another thread, I'd agree there is a structure within ourselves ... that "I" is actually a "We."

However, I'd caution that there's a concept being challenged in some circles these days that reflects the "As Above, so below" concept ... and this is the idea that we, as individuals aren't beholding to any "corporate" structure above OR below. In other words, the hierarchy we are subjected to here on the earthly plane not only doesn't exist above, but is falsely, by fraudulent representation, imposed on us (and both on the earthly and non-earthly plane).

I recently came to support this theory since the paradigm we're exposed to here on the earthly plane IS actually fraudulent, complete with hierarchical structure that utterly and falsely controls us ... fiat money, a fractionalized monetary system, slave taxes, lack of real ownership, and termination of individual sovereignty ... the lack of sovereignty, being the most serious symptom ... and this observation of fraud actually supports The Emerald Tablet's assertion of "As Above, so Below and as Below, so Above" ...

Meaning ...

We are all sovereign beings with a direct connection to Source Energy, with no requirement for us to obtain our life energy from any other source. If any such condition of "force" exists for us to obtain our energy or life-sustaining material, either physical or non-physical, that alternate source has literally hijacked our right to a direct connection to Source.

I'm just highly sensitive the the word and concept of "corporation" at the moment.

Corporations currently represent a truly dark and sinister force.

Awani
11-03-2014, 10:50 PM
I agree.

But I also think it is important not to give the 'dark forces' any power. The swastika, nigger, faggot, corporation.. all these things are words that need to be reclaimed or their meaning changed. The power of words is the power we give them, IMO.

Let's look at the word 'corporation':


A corporation is a separate legal entity that has been incorporated either directly through legislation or through a registration process established by law.

Incorporated entities have legal rights and liabilities that are distinct from those of their employees, shareholders, and members, and may conduct business as either a profit-seeking business or not-for-profit. - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation)


...a separate legal entity... refers to a type of legal entity with detached accountability. A business can be set up as an separate legal entity to legally separate it from the individual or owner... - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_legal_entity)

This is how big evil mega corporations can conduct their nasty business without getting caught... it is also how businesses gets full advantage of corporate taxes... which means:


...rules for taxing companies may differ significantly from rules for taxing individuals. - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax)

Yes, these evil mega corps can do what they fuck they like, and why not... wouldn't you if you could 'cheat' the system? Cheat a system that is an illusion anyway...

When I say "Every human being is self-employed in the Corporation of the I ..." I am trying to get people to do what THEY do... if every human being incorporated, if every human being did what THEY do, the power would/could move over to the individual... if we all think like dictators of our own little world, we will rule the whole world.

Whatever tricks THEY use, WE CAN USE!

And why not?

--------------------------------------

Imagine if you are a corporation, then your legal person (your number in the system) in a sense loose its accountability... you as a natural person (your physical self) cannot really be placed in the legal system, only your legal person (your number)... but if you become a corporation... and everything you do you DO through that corporation then it will be a lot more difficult for you to be attacked.

Your number (your legal person) will employ your physical self in your own corporation.

No tactic is full proof... and there are problems with all ways of life... but I have tried incorporation and found only benefits... and anyone can do it.

:cool:

DonSweet
11-04-2014, 05:04 AM
I concur.

100%

Read every word.

Love the way you put things.

I've been saying many of these same things in different ways for many years. Backed by 35+ years of self-employment, I've actually spent the majority of my adult life actually doing what you suggest.

The one thing I would add to what you've said would be to use the word "sovereign." We are sovereign beings, wholly non-dependent of a hierarchical "authoritarian" structure based on force or coercion ... unless we blindly or consciously choose to be, terminating our sovereignty. Most don't even know they've made that choice.

Of course, "no man is an island" has validity, but that's not an excuse for repression, domination or even slavery. It's merely the citation that we are all connected (and primarily through our common sovereignty).

One principle employed by these entities is the concept of a "principal," or an individual who is solely (or mainly) responsible to themselves ... major stockholder, CEO, board of directors. They act within their own self-interest, often only faintly masked by a theory of acting in the interest of one of these entities.

This principle hijacks the principal that we are ALL principles ... unless we yield our inherent, inalienable independence ... which most do (without even knowing it).

Love your perspective. Love your presentation. Love your energy and obvious passion for these vital rudiments of human nature.

Too bad more don't either know it or feel it.

Let's hope our numbers grow ...

... soon.

You'd have made an excellent pre-Columbian Native American.

DonSweet
11-05-2014, 07:20 AM
Hadda mention a typo ...

Particularly with the subtle spelling difference between principle/principal and the vastly different meanings.

"... the principal that we are ALL principles," should have been -- "... the principle that we are ALL principals."

But that's just the anal retentive, obsessive, excessive, compulsive three quarters German and quarter Britt in me talking.

My Who-Gives-a-Shit-Bohemian side typed it.

**smile**

Andro
01-12-2015, 10:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=33wxzpZwSKw

http://www.zaporacle.com/wp-content/uploads/steve-von-shultz.jpg

Awani
01-13-2015, 12:09 AM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/Untitled_zps33d6c476.png

:cool:

*ignore the Viking

Ghislain
01-15-2015, 07:50 PM
Je suis they!

Ghislain

Awani
01-16-2015, 05:41 AM
You know Charlie is slang for Enemy... ironic isn't it?

:cool:

Andro
06-02-2015, 12:08 PM
I don't resonate with this guy's overall philosophy, but, on our topic here, he does make some thought provoking points in this video:

Psychopaths & The Illuminati


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew_7RC8Ok5M

Ghislain
06-02-2015, 03:07 PM
Scary...I could see a lot of myself in what he was saying.

Looking for something is the agenda of sorts, but never reaching any goal.

I wonder if one can change this modus operandi?

Ghislain

Awani
06-03-2015, 01:48 AM
I love the way this guy talks with his drink and fags... like some Vincent Price type of person.

I agree with this video fully. I can honestly say that I understand both the psychopath and the sociopath 100 %, as I have been attracted to both these conditions in my youth (as a student, not practitioner of it). This is exactly what the "elite" is...

I understand how they think, that is why I keep arguing it is pointless to try and do anything about it. A psychopathic person cannot be cured. He wouldn't want to be.

Just let them be... they are just immature beings.

In this realm they might seem powerful, but in the realm I am in they have NO power.

:cool:

Andro
06-05-2015, 06:15 PM
I wonder if one can change this modus operandi?


A psychopathic person cannot be cured. He wouldn't want to be.

Dexter (from the TV show) was a psychopath, and what allowed him to 'manage' his condition (i.e. not getting caught and live a seemingly 'adjusted' life), was the fact that his father saw him for who he was from a young age and taught him a set of very strict rules, also known as 'The Code'. Apparently, the 'Illuminati Psychopaths' the guy talks about in the video, also have a 'Code' (theories about 'Elite Codes' are all over the Internet).

So what is the 'Code' of 'adjusted' psychopaths? Or the 'Illuminati Codes', for that matter?

Awani
06-06-2015, 05:14 AM
Good question.

But I don't think they have a code. They don't need one.

Dexter's code was to only hurt people that deserved it. Maybe the Code is to make sure people hurt themselves. In other words don't get blood on your hands physically, only allegorically.

But really I don't think they have one. A psychopath does not have a code per se... a true psychopath doesn't even care about getting caught, he might even want to be caught. And Dexter is just a TV show (its logic is self-contained). ;)

:cool:

Andro
05-09-2016, 06:10 PM
The truth about conspiracy theories and the illuminati:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Hpix8O9Qs

zoas23
05-09-2016, 07:58 PM
The funny thing for me about the Illuminati conspiracy theories is that the Illuminati organization was clearly a LEFT WING organization, whilst modern conspiracy theories are convinced that they were a RIGHT WING group, which was not the case at all.

Awani
05-10-2016, 01:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Hpix8O9Qs

Even though this is comedy it still contains a lot of gnosis, especially about those conspiracy people.


The funny thing for me about the Illuminati conspiracy theories is that the Illuminati organization was clearly a LEFT WING organization, whilst modern conspiracy theories are convinced that they were a RIGHT WING group, which was not the case at all.

I actually like the Illuminati. At least the original group. Kill all Catholics... sounds like a good idea. Chopping off the heads of kings and queens. Sure, why not. Stop inheritance. Yes. Let Men build their own futures. Etc. ;)

:cool:

zoas23
05-10-2016, 06:32 AM
I actually like the Illuminati. At least the original group. Kill all Catholics... sounds like a good idea. Chopping off the heads of kings and queens. Sure, why not. Stop inheritance. Yes. Let Men build their own futures. Etc. ;)

I like and dislike the original Illuminati Order.

Their main failure was that they didn't find a way to adapt to other ideas, mostly destroying many "bridges". It is interesting for me their actions at the Convent of Wilhelmsbad (Organized by Willermoz), in which they agreed with Willermoz on destroying the *myth* of a direct lineage with the Knights Templars for the rite of Strict Observance, but mostly though that Willermoz was a lunatic with his Martinist ideas and his "excessive" mysticism (I don't think it was excessive).

And in Germany they had a LOT in common with the Rosicrucians... but also some incompatible differences ("The Republic of Christianopolis" by Andrade was still a reference for the Rosicrucians... and it's mostly an Utopia that involves a liberal Theocracy).

I see the French Revolution as the main expression of the Illuminati ideas, but I do NOT think that the Illuminati Order played any role in the Revolution (because they never managed to be REALLY influential in France and because by 1789 the Order was almost non-functional).

Quite similar to what happens with most Left Wing parties in our contemporary world: they suck at *negotiating* with other parties/groups and they end up becoming like an "ideological ghetto".

Andro
05-10-2016, 06:59 AM
Two quotes from the movie 'The Usual Suspects':


The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Rephrasing of the phrase "the finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist" by Charles Baudelaire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire)


To a cop, the explanation is never that complicated. It's always simple. There's no mystery to the street, no arch criminal behind it all. If you got a dead body and you think his brother did it, you're gonna find out you're right.


At least the original group.

I don't think there's such a 'them' as 'the illuminati'. Especially not the original group. And not lizard people, like Icke keeps saying.

If there's a 'them', it's basically just people, people who are after all not so fundamentally different from you or me or Keyser Söze, etc...

It's just business, only a different currency (maybe)...

Andro
05-10-2016, 07:25 AM
Speaking of Baudelaire, a topic-related quote from him:


"There are but three beings worthy of respect: the priest, the warrior and the poet. To know, to kill and to create.

The rest of mankind may be taxed and drudged, they are born for the stable, that is to say, to practice what they call professions."More Baudelaire quotes HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire#Philosophy).

zoas23
05-10-2016, 03:29 PM
Rephrasing of the phrase "the finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist" by Charles Baudelaire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Baudelaire)


I don't think the Illuminati were "the devil"... but very much a libertarian society with a good idea and HUGE problems into turning it into a revolutionary practice.

My problem with most of the "Illuminati myth" of their current existence is that the modern *conspiracists* link them with people like George Bush or the neo-con right... which is as absurd to me as assuming that George Bush is part of a crypto-socialist club or that the Donald Trump has a hidden Marxist agenda.

As for Baudelaire... the wiki article is somehow biased or too based on a very selective quoting.

i.e, it makes the reader lead to believe that Baudelaire was fascinated with the Military... when he actually HATED the Military.
It is also a fact that Baudelaire admired the ideas of the *anarchist* Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon), but didn't have much admiration for Henri de Saint-Simon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Henri_de_Rouvroy,_comte_de_Saint-Simon)... and specially Sanit-Simon's idea of the artists being the cultural "avant-garde".

Baudelaire HATED the expression "avant-garde" for the arts and systematically refused to be labeled as an "avant-garde" artist ---and even wrote an extensive essay against the use of such term for the arts.

[A literal translation of "avant-garde" to English would be "advance guard" or the "front line" of soldiers who advance before the other soldiers... Baudelaire had a huge problem with using a "military metaphor" for the artists... and his essay criticizes the "French obsession with military metaphors" and the whole of the military ideology].

I tried to find the essay in English, but all I could find is contemporary essays by English authors who explain that Baudelaire can be considered one of the first avant-garde poets... hahaha... I bet Baudelaire would be wanting to punch them in the face or at least screaming at them: "Did you even care to read my essays where it's not so complicated to figure out that I completely reject the idea of *avant-garde* and giving any kind of glamour to this military terminology???".

__________________________________________________

The BIG issue for me here is WHY the contemporary *myth* about the Illuminati Order links it with far-right ideas... when the Illuminati Order (which I consider to be extinct) was a left wing group and somehow close to the ideas of Voltaire and Rousseau.

Awani
05-10-2016, 03:44 PM
Why it went from left to right?

Answer: conspiracy people are morons

:cool:

Andro
05-10-2016, 04:17 PM
Why it went from left to right?

Left/right is an artificially induced dichotomy. It's neither, nor was it ever :)

"divide & conquer"

zoas23
05-10-2016, 07:32 PM
Left/right is an artificially induced dichotomy. It's neither, nor was it ever :)

"divide & conquer"

Yes, you are right. The ideas of "left" and "right" don't really mean much nowadays.

Maybe the ideas of "authoritarian" vs. "libertarian" make a bit more sense.

i.e, I think that Kim Jong-un and Dev have different political visions and maybe the ideas of "left" and "right" don't really serve to explain the differences.

EDIT: ... and I do believe that you are willingly *quoting* something that is making me smile... or maybe it's just a coincidence. LOL, I may never know.

Awani
05-11-2016, 09:45 AM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/108df11e-175a-47e2-8daa-d62b1bd9ab82_zps7bjvhqrt.jpg

:cool:

Andro
11-12-2016, 10:32 PM
Make of this what you will :cool:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksV7HYi4_QU

Illen A. Cluf
11-12-2016, 10:50 PM
Make of this what you will :cool:



Deeply subtle! Humor is always the most effective vehicle for Truth. One immediately reacts and almost embarrassingly laughs, but it chillingly stirs something deep inside of us, but often cannot consciously be deciphered...

Andro
12-24-2016, 07:04 PM
A monologue from the otherwise waste-of-time-of-a-movie 'If There's A Hell Below':


Here, let's start with this (points at smartphone).

Did you make this?

This incredibly complex device, with thousands of precise components, assembled by people whose lives are shit, working for you.

Are you under the impression that you are just some fortunate guy and the rest of the world wants to work with poor eyesight and hungry stomachs and bloody fingers, for you to amuse yourself?

These things do not just happen. People wield power to make them happen.

If you honestly think you could enjoy anything close to your lifestyle, your iPads and you fair trade coffee and you discount airfares and your press freedoms without the threat of enormous power behind you, you're delusional.

You are a party to these actions, you are complicit and deep down you know it.

I do what I do because someone has to.

This world is chaos and fear and desperation and violence, and the only thing that has brought any security and order to it, is the careful and ruthless application of power.

Awani
12-24-2016, 09:29 PM
This world is chaos and fear and desperation and violence, and the only thing that has brought any security and order to it, is the careful and ruthless application of power.

The careful and ruthless application of power is a side effect of the paternal/patriarchal ego/greed culture that began to emerge about 5000 years ago. Very good at technological evolution, pretty much shit at everything else.

:cool:

zoas23
12-25-2016, 02:19 PM
I'll just quote myself quoting (on another thread) a relevant quote from a movie that quotes from a book :)

From 'The Way of the Samurai' (a.k.a. 'Hagakure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure)'), as seen in the movie 'Ghost Dog':

It is said that what is called "the spirit of an age" is something to which one cannot return.
That this spirit gradually dissipates is due to the world's coming to an end.
For this reason, although one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done.
Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation.

I like this old post about the Zeitgeist / "spirit of an age"... and maybe this idea can help to explain some issues.

The Illuminati Order didn't have very "special" ideas... They were a TYPICAL product of their age, which is the Age of Enlightenment, of course.

The ONLY "strange" thing about them is that they planned to penetrate into Freemasonry and plant there a seed of revolution. Why Freemasonry? Because it was the best place to influence the middle class and the upper class which didn't have a nobility.

As a group they were completely heterogeneous: the founder, Adam Weishaupt, was very much a "rationalist" (as opposed to "mystic")... though other members of the Illuminati Order were very much "mystics" and wanted the Order to adopt mystical practices... which was exactly what Weishaupt did NOT want at all. So the whole history of the Order is filled with internal conflicts.

The plan to manipulate Freemasonry never worked in the way that Adam Weishaupt wanted, probably because other ideologies that were getting popular in Freemasonry were at odds with his extreme rationalism (Rosicrucianism and Martinism).

A lot of person believe that the Illuminati Order "won"... which is NOT the case, their mission was a complete failure... HOWEVER most of their ideals "won", simply because they were not especially original.

Just have in mind that the Order was founded 2 months before the Independence of the USA... which brought a LOT of Enthusiasm. I do not see a HUGE difference between the ideals of the Illuminati Order and the ideals of Thomas Paine... and take it for granted that Paine was by far more "influential" in the American Independence than the Illuminati Order.

And then we have the weird conspiracy theories about the Illuminati Order which perceive it as something that still exists (it doesn't), which has the aim of controlling the economy (an ideal that would have been an anathema to the ideals of Adam Weishaupt)... and sometimes it gets weirder and it links them to Aliens (ignoring the fact that Weishaupt was a strict Empiricist).

These conspiracy theories make less sense to me that someone stating that the KKK was actually created to make Catholicism popular in the USA and give equal rights to the African Americans.

If you wanna see something similar to the Illuminati Order, I would suggest to check the Logia Lautaro ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lautaro_Lodge ), which was quite similar, but had a bigger success, though also some failures.

The main failure was that they wanted to give equal rights to the aborigines of South America and the "fantasy" of some of its members was to establish governments ruled by aborigines, which certainly did NOT happen (quite the opposite, the Independences did not improve at all the rights of the aborigines, but the Lautaro Lodge was very successful in creating "revolutions"... though not so much into getting involved in the post-independentist governments, which had a different ideology).

ArcherSage
12-25-2016, 06:15 PM
Being a mason I would say that not even half of the masons that are active members really deeply study the esoteric and mystical traditions of their own fraternity. Many join the brotherhood to get a leg up politically which is against masonic law, but there is a reason many congressman and mayors etc, are masons. They weren't masons that became politicians, rather they were already career politicians who join the lodge to gain further influence. Almost every town and city has a lodge, so even the small local governments can be influenced, perhaps even easier than being a member of a lodge in Washington DC. But many of the small towns have masons at the head, such as school board, many firefighters and police officers, principals, and things like this, which creates a conflict of interest. However it is against masonic law to speak politics in a lodge, but that doesn't stop them from making their connections. There is nothing stopping a congressman in the US who is a mason, from going to Russia and attending a lodge there, once a master mason you can travel to any lodge in the world and they must welcome you regardless of your country. Which also creates more conflict of interests when you consider many of our politicians visit lodges in other countries all the time.

Voltaire
12-28-2016, 02:29 PM
https://s24.postimg.org/m739t4mqd/Untitled.jpg

How top illuminati read your mind...

does it make sense to anyone, or is it just me?

Awani
12-28-2016, 03:02 PM
If they are reading my mind - which I doubt - then let them. I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you plan to assasinate someone, sell drugs, start an uprising or do some major robbery then "they" could not give one fuck about you/me or I. IMO.

Paranoia --> Fear --> Suffering


My whole point of this thread is that if you believe in an Illuminati with
nefarious designs on you and the world, then you are subjectively living
in that world and influencing others to live in it as well.
Maybe that's the whole problem.
The Illuminati might not even exist.
Your version of the Illuminati may not be accurate.
Maybe you are the sorcerer, spreading all this propaganda. :)

:cool: