View Full Version : Vegan or not ... What we eat ? Or HOW we eat ?

01-08-2013, 01:15 PM
From A facebook group on Alchemy

"Some thoughts for practicing alchemists. This is a distillation of a conversation between Konstantin Korotkov and myself when we met at the International alchemy conference in 2011.

Konstantine created a device that measures bio-life energy. It is so good the sports hospitals in Russia are mandated to use it and their accuracy in diagnosis has gone up to 98%.

Cool and long story, but to the point: He measured the bio energy of a person eating meat and saw that bio-energy go down, to an unhealthy level.

His vegetarian staff all lauded the test, saying their way of life was healthier.

Then he measured their bio energy when eating a plant based food. And their energy also went down.
Needless to say, everyone was shocked.

They measured a connection, a wave of energy to the plants that were being eaten. For instance, if a person ate a leaf of lettuce, they could measure an energy drop on both the person and the living plant. If the plant was dead, there was a bio energy drop in the field around the person.

So, they measured ways to counter this.
They found that prayer, to God, had very little effect.

But they found that a prayer of thanks to the living spirit of the plant counteracted the negative effects. a prayer of thanks for the sacrifice.

Then they did the same with meat eaters. They gave a prayer of thanks to the animal itself, for making the sacrifice to give the person life. And the energy went up, not down.

So, it probably does not matter much what a person eats, as long and it is healthy for the body in general. As long as the sacrifice of life is honored and a prayer of thanks is giving to the living being of whatever is being eaten.

So, the questions start with, How do we apply this understanding to our work with 'living seeds of metals'?"

01-08-2013, 01:20 PM
I also like to add that the problem is not eating meat, but the meat industry.

That the mind affect matter goes hand in hand with the holographic model of the universe which I support.


Bel Matina
01-08-2013, 05:16 PM
I'm very much of the opinion that it's more respectful to acknowledge the personhood of what you're eating than to avoid eating it, though this does not obviate the harm to a thing in eating it, and I consider this a good reason to avoid eating to excess. You can see the link I posted in the Mind Matters sub-forum for how the new science predicts that everything ought to be having an experience, however alien to our own, as long as it exists. The article itself avoids bringing this up by not dwelling on the vast informatic content of everyday things around us, but I think in this forum we need not fear being rejected out of hand on suspicion of panpsychism.

The alienness of another's experience shouldn't dissuade us from trying to inhabit it; the math in the article shows how we can infer that two experiences manifesting in different locations are identical, or at least similar, through the example of a transistor. I would argue that this attempt to inhabit the experiences of the things that condition our experience is the fundament of our art, or at least the fundamental skill.

If it need be said, this ethic regarding eating extends to any kind of violation.

01-09-2013, 03:38 AM
So, the questions start with, How do we apply this understanding to our work with 'living seeds of metals'?"

And your signature says: "Alchemy as Science, Art and Philosophy is at first a mindset, and not a Technique."

Probably that's the answer.


I love this song:


"Wise words from the departing
Eat your greens, especially broccoli
Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
Wear sensible shoes and always say "thank you"
Especially for the things you never had
By working the soil we cultivate the sky
We embrace vegetable kingdom
And enter the vegetable kingdom of our own heaven
By working the soil we cultivate good manners
The death of your father, the death of your mother
Is something you prepare for
All your life
All their life"


A former GF taught me to always say "thank you" after eating. I always do it. And, yes, it does change the way in which life is perceived.
(yes, we are what we eat... but also what we perceive and the way in which we perceive and think).


As a person who is vegetarian since I'm 11 years old, the best I can say from my experience is: "I won't get into a vegetarian vs. omnivore vs. vegan vs. tantric meal" debate... ! :p
((( I really miss the Animal Liberation Front forum, but it's down since some weeks ago... Si even if I'm going through a phase of abstinence of "vegetarian debate", I won't have my dose of it here! )))


Work the soil, wear sensible shoes, cultivate good manners, cultivate the sky.... and always remember to say "thank you".
Probably that's an important part of the Mindset that your signature talks about.

Thank you :)

01-09-2013, 12:50 PM
I'm very much of the opinion that it's more respectful to acknowledge the personhood of what you're eating than to avoid eating it...

I agree to this only if you agree that this applies to human meat as well... as I see no difference.


01-09-2013, 01:52 PM
There is a theory that says that when a human being eat something from another kingdom, the "lowest" kingdom can evolve a little bit by its passage in the guts and body of its "killer".

Death do not exist in this realm, there is only evolution and expressions of Life (taking different forms and densities, and also process).

BUT suffering is not OK.

One can eat only meat and being perfectly healthy and not torture animals - it's not about what you do, but how you do it.

Meat has also some different densities : beef is earthy, fishes are watery, turkey and duck, chiken are airy, eggs and insects are firery. It's non exhaustive and maybe not totally accurate but can give you some insights.

01-09-2013, 02:01 PM
Interesting. Then animals must be really evolved, LOL.


Bel Matina
01-09-2013, 04:34 PM
I agree to this only if you agree that this applies to human meat as well... as I see no difference.


It does. Issues of the social contract, as well as sanitation and (for me, in any case, not wanting to speak for others) disgust come in to play differently in that situation, and for me that accounts for the difference.

01-09-2013, 04:34 PM
I also like to add that the problem is not eating meat, but the meat industry.


01-09-2013, 05:24 PM
Animal welfare concerns (an extract from a Halal article on Wikikpedia)

Animal rights groups have objected to Halal, saying that it is a form of animal torture. The
animal is positioned in order to have its blood completely drained (if size permits) and left to

The ritual method of slaughter as practiced in Islam and Judaism has been described as
inhumane by some animal welfare organizations in the U.K. and the U.S. who have stated
that it "causes severe suffering to animals.

In 1978, a study incorporating EEG (electroencephalograph) with electrodes surgically
implanted on the skull of 17 sheep and 15 calves, and conducted by Wilhelm Schulze et al. at
the University of Veterinary Medicine in Germany concluded that "the slaughter in the form
of a ritual cut is, if carried out properly, painless in sheep and calves according to EEG
recordings and the missing defensive actions" (of the animals) and that "For sheep, there
were in part severe reactions both in bloodletting cut and the pain stimuli" when captive bolt
stunning (CBS) was used. This study is cited by the German Constitutional Court in its
permitting of dhabiha slaughtering. However, recent studies have countered the Schulze
study which is dated and relied on older EEG measurement techniques. Dr. Schulze himself
also warned in his report that the stunning technique may not have functioned properly.

In 2003, the Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), an independent advisory group,
concluded that the way halal and kosher meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals.
FAWC argued that cattle required up to two minutes to bleed to death when such means are
employed. The Chairperson of FAWC at the time, Judy MacArthur Clark, added, "this is a
major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn't suffer is quite ridiculous."

Halal and kosher butchers deny that their method of killing animals is cruel and expressed
anger over the FAWC recommendation.[24] Majid Katme of the Muslim Council of Britain
also disagreed, stating that "it's a sudden and quick haemorrhage. A quick loss of blood
pressure and the brain is instantaneously starved of blood and there is no time to start feeling
any pain."

The Ph.D work of Dr. Pouillaude concluded: "religious slaughter would thus be
a less stressing mode of slaughter. Conclusions of all the scientific experiments converge
towards a firmly supported certainty: properly carried out, religious slaughter is the most
humane way because it leads to less trauma to animals to be killed to be consumed for its

In April 2008, the Food and Farming minister in the UK, Lord Rooker, stated that halal and
kosher meat should be labeled when it is put on sale, so that members of the public can
decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have been bled to death. He
was quoted as saying, "I object to the method of slaughter ... my choice as a customer is that I
would want to buy meat that has been looked after, and slaughtered in the most humane way
possible." The RSPCA supported Lord Rooker's views."

For the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and the Humane Society
International, "the animals that are slaughtered according to kosher and halal should be
securely restrained, particularly the head and neck, before cutting the throat" as "movements
(during slaughter) results in a poor cut, bad bleeding, slow loss of consciousness, if at all, and

In Europe, the DIALREL project addressed religious slaughter issues by gathering and
disseminating information and by encouraging dialogue between the spiritual and scientific
communities. Funding for DIALREL was provided by The European Commission, and it
began functioning in November 2006. DIALREL produced many fact sheets and ultimately
published a final report in 2010, "Report on good and adverse practices - Animal welfare
concerns in relation to slaughter practices from the viewpoint of veterinary sciences."

Certain Muslim and Jewish communities expressed frustration with the process of dialogue
skewed for non-religious audiences.

Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal#Animal_welfare_concerns)

It would appear there are differing views on the subject, but I am sure that while preparing the Halal meat prayers of thanks are given...could the same be said in the slaughterhouses of western tradition?


01-03-2016, 01:57 AM
Through working with sacred plants and shamans I have come to the conlusion regarding my diet that I am ONLY going to eat things that belong to "other" animal groups. In other words I belong to the mammal group (humans, pigs, cows etc). So I only eat birds, reptiles, plants, fungi, fish, insects etc. Although not if it is endangered.

I have been vegan, vegetarian, meat eater... all kinds... but this diet of eating "outside my own group" - not sure what it is called - feels the most right for me. Not preaching. Just sharing my experience.

It makes sense to me.

Everything is alive. And for everything to live every other thing must die. There is nothing wrong with killing to eat... if you kill a bird, a plant or whatever... Naturally the modern mass-murder of animals is not something I support. This is not about that.

Spiritually I feel more connected to mammals like dogs, cats, cows, pigs etc... and the meat is very similar to human meat. To eat those things would be almost cannibalistic.

Bird meat (turkey, chicken) is very different and also healthier. Plant meat the same, and also fish.

If everything is a part of the same energy you are not really killing anything. Just moving energy from A to B. Only reason I avoid mammals is because they have the same energy as me... according to my theories/experiences... like a battery you connect + to -, not + to +.

Makes sense to me!

Kill. Live. Love. ;)


05-09-2020, 08:31 PM