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Andro
01-12-2013, 09:48 PM
The Kinsey scale, also called the Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale, attempts to describe a person's sexual experience or response at a given time.

It uses a scale from 0 (meaning exclusively heterosexual) to 6 (meaning exclusively homosexual).

X is added to the scale to cover asexual OR any other form of sexual expression not included in the scale.


The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats.
It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories...
The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.
While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories,
it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history [...]
An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life. [...]
A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist.You can also Watch the Kinsey Movie Online (http://www.solarmovie.so/link/play/940777/), starring the wonderful Liam Neeson.

So, where would you say you are on this scale, at this point in your life?

You can enter your status anonymously, but comments are of course welcome, especially from the more brave 'non-0' voters :)

Edit: You may also place yourself anywhere from 2 to 5, even if you haven't actually had experiences outside one of the 0 or 6 extremes.
It can also be about your inner sense of sexual identity and the way you perceive it and respond to it psychologically.

PS: I don't really expect this poll to be very popular (to say the least), but hope springs eternal that I will be proven wrong :)

zoas23
01-12-2013, 10:40 PM
You can enter your status anonymously, but comments are of course welcome, especially from the more brave 'non-0' voters :)

Edit: You may also place yourself anywhere from 2 to 5, even if you haven't actually had experiences outside one of the 0 or 6 extremes.
It can also be about your inner sense of sexual identity and the way you perceive it and respond to it psychologically.

LOL... I voted the non-brave option 0. I know I have less than zero sexual interest in other men (my gender is male, maybe my "nick" doesn't make it 100% obvious!)... indeed, I often find it difficult to have intense friendships with males... mostly because I find women by far more interesting.

Having said such thing,... In many different ways I feel this scale is weird.
I know I don't fit into the "typical" heterosexual mindset: I despise the "macho culture", I have less than zero tolerance with sexism... male-only meetings bore me to death (a few times some people asked me why I didn't join a regular freemasonry lodge.... well, because I would find that the atmosphere is suffocating, even if the ideas were interesting)... I do get along very well with gays and lesbians, specially with lesbians (I often have a tendency to get along very well with lesbians).
I've also remembered something strange that happened in high-school: the girls of my class decided to make a "girls-only" vacation in the coast, so they rented a house.... and then they invited me. It wasn't because I was the only "cool" boy, it wasn't because one of them liked me in a romantic way.... it was simply because they felt is was O.K. to make an exception with me.
I've also remembered a lesbian disco/club that only has one rule: "girls only -no men allowed". Some friends of mine who enjoyed going there talked to the owner and got a written permission from the owner to let me in... simply because we liked hanging around together and it was silly that we couldn't go tthere because I am male. These friends declared that I am a "lesbian man" and we all laughed.

I've also been perceived as gay several times.... and I simply explain that I am not and go on... but I don't find it offensive, nor I make a scandal.

Having said all these things, into this scale, I am certainly a zero. I find the idea or even the "fantasy" of having sex with a man less interesting than cricket is for the non-British.

EDIT: ... and being a zero, I have to say that I LOVE the movies of Jean Cocteau, Derek Jarman, Kenneth Anger and even Bruce LaBruce... !
I also think that Jayne county (the very first transgender punk) was one of the most interesting singers of the early punk rock scene.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ELPk8O28d4

Andro
01-12-2013, 10:55 PM
LOL... I voted the non-brave option 0.

It's not 'non-brave' if you're honest.


I know I have less than zero sexual interest in other men.

Less then zero would mean a negative value?

Could this be interpreted that you are actually actively repulsed by the same gender, having difficulties establishing a meaningful (non-sexual) connection with other men?


Having said such thing,... In many different ways I feel this scale is weird.

I don't think it's weird... It's just about how you perceive yourself in terms of sexual attraction, even if only in potential.
I know hetero males who are a bit effeminate, but still (allegedly) 100% straight. Same for gay macho-type men.
Same for many gay men who would rather (non-sexually) associate with women most of the time.

So, the scale is not about demeanor or social associations, but rather purely about where one is on the continuum of sexual orientation.

Andro
01-12-2013, 10:59 PM
I placed myself as a 6, but it would be a bit more accurate if the scale had a 5.99 value :)

Seth-Ra
01-12-2013, 11:09 PM
I voted in the poll as totally hetero.


Zoas23,

I have very similar things happen to me -not quite to the extent of yours, but i relate. Ive always made friends with girls more than guys, as the guys of this culture tend to annoy me (as you put it, the macho blah blah stuff), some people have thought i was gay, either due to my voice (i dont really "get" how they get that, but whatever. lol i guess i sound as pretty as i look :p ) or due to my thin girlish frame/build. (i like to think i look more like an elf. :cool: )



I do, however, have friends that are guys, obviously, but they are not "typical" guys, just as i am not. While i am certainly not attracted to any of them in the same way i am to girls, certain ones do share a sort of intimacy that makes us as brothers, and i do love them as such. :)

But at the beginning, middle, and end of the day (and all in between) - females hold all my sexual interest, and a few who have an arcane intellect/spirit, hold a key to my heart. :cool:
Thats just me. :)



~Seth-Ra

Andro
01-12-2013, 11:26 PM
I voted in the poll as totally hetero.

The vote doesn't show for some reason, it still appears as only one 0 vote at this time (Zoas' apparently). Are you sure you clicked the poll?


the guys of this culture tend to annoy me

I actually find that both genders of this culture can be generally quite annoying, each in their own special way :)

That's why I am so discerning in my social associations, regardless of gender.
Socially, I don't put either gender on a pedestal (like some men who claim to 'worship the divine feminine', etc...)

Awani
01-12-2013, 11:31 PM
3. Because I think we are all bi even if we like it or not. Love is not gender.

:cool:

Andro
01-12-2013, 11:38 PM
Love is not gender.

With this, I absolutely agree. There are also many ways to love...

But love doesn't necessarily have to be expressed as sexual attraction, which is what this scale is ultimately about...

There are a few women (and men as well, BTW) in my life, for whom I have deep feelings, but these feelings are not expressed as sexual attraction at all.

zoas23
01-12-2013, 11:48 PM
It's not 'non-brave' if you're honest.
Less then zero would mean a negative value?


Yeah... as I've said, I feel somehow uneasy in male-only meetings (even if they were not planned as "male only", but it's something that simply happened). Maybe not "uneasy", but mostly very bored.
I have some male friends, but it's quite hard for me to feel interested in another man, even in a non-sexual way (i.e, in a friendly way).

A friend once gave me a "cheap astrology" interpretation of my ways: he said I'm an extreme Leo... who enjoys being surrounded by female lions, but doesn't get along with male lions. LOL... that's really "cheap astrology", but it still made some sense.

I forgot to say it: I never had "casual sex" or "loveless sex" (it's kinda freaky in the XXI century, I know!)... I actualy never had sex with a person with whom I didn't had a relationship (and the shortest I've had lasted a year). This isn't an ethical choice, nor a moral choice or an ideology.... I assume that "love" is what turns me on... and if there's no love, then I don't find the situation "sexy" at all.
And I wouldn't consider having a relationship with a man... it's not that I would find it disgusting, but mostly "boring"



Could this be interpreted that you are actually actively repulsed by the same gender, having difficulties establishing a meaningful (non-sexual) connection with other men?


Men have their ways and women have their ways.
I have some male friends, but my relationship with them is never as strong as my relationship with females.
Having said such thing, the most intense friendships I've had with males have been with people who would have voted 5 or 6.

I do remember a conversation I've had with a lesbian friend. She worked in a clothes shop, a woman was walking next to the shop, she looked at my friend, smiled and kept on walking. The whole thing probably lasted 3 seconds.
I met my friend later and she talked to me about what had happened for 4 or 5 hours. Again, she was able to talk for 4 or 5 hours about an experience that lasted some 3 seconds. Even if the conversation was about something incredibly trivial, I was fascinated with the conversation... it wasn't the subject what made me feel interested, but the fact that she could add so many details, so many fantasies, psychological depth, enthusiasm, etc... She managed to make these 3 seconds become incredibly interesting.

Men usually talk in a very different way... a whole week is explained in 4 or 5 sentences.

I wouldn't say I am repulsed.
Did you ever eat pop-corn without salt or sugar? The taste isn't repulsive, it's simply that it has no taste... and "something" is missing there.
It doesn't taste like shit, it doesn't make you wanna puke, it doesn't taste specially bad, it doesn't have a strange smell... but it's not tasty... it is even quite "boring" for the brain itself to eat it.
Maybe that explains better how I feel.


ISo, the scale is not about demeanor or social associations, but rather purely about where one is on the continuum of sexual orientation.

Yeah, got it... that's why I felt that it wasn't too complete.

Awani
01-12-2013, 11:50 PM
But love doesn't necessarily have to be expressed as sexual attraction, which is what this scale is ultimately about...

True, but it goes for sex as well. It is the strongest drive we have (one of the strongest anyway), and when we are deprived of women or men it is very common our barriers are lowered... if deprived of people I am sure we will start humping sheep.


Socially, I don't put either gender on a pedestal (like some men who claim to 'worship the divine feminine', etc...)

I like the divine feminine but I don't equate it with women, it is more a temperament/milieu..., that I subscribe to personally.

:cool:

I know this is general stuff but it would fit in our sexual alchemy area... no? That place should cover all aspects of sex/sex energy of which sexual preference is a big part.

Andro
01-13-2013, 12:02 AM
and when we are deprived of women or men it is very common our barriers are lowered...

I guess so... Things can happen during long term prison sentences, for example... or on long seafaring journeys...

I've heard (but maybe it's just an urban legend) that some countries are supplementing the food/drink of their male military recruits to suppress their sex drive...


if deprived of people I am sure we will start humping sheep.

That would probably fit into the X category... It's also interesting to note that Kinsey himself specified that the scale measures one's orientation at a particular time, not as something permanent or impossible to alter by extreme or even not-so-extreme circumstances.


I like the divine feminine but I don't equate it with women, it is more a temperament/milieu...

In this case, is there also a 'divine masculine' temperament/milieu in our culture? If there is, I don't believe it's very often mentioned.

Men sometimes refer to their female partners as 'Lady', but I don't see many women referring to their male partners as 'Lord'. See Ladies' Room Vs. Men's Room, for example...

But I digress...

Seth-Ra
01-13-2013, 12:07 AM
Love is not gender
With this, I absolutely agree. There are also many ways to love...

But love doesn't necessarily have to be expressed as sexual attraction, which is what this scale is ultimately about...

There are a few women (and men as well, BTW) in my life, for whom I have deep feelings, but these feelings are not expressed as sexual attraction at all.

This is pretty much what im trying to say also. I love both, but am only sexually attracted to one.
Youre also right, both can be annoying in their own ways. It is always a case-by-case scenario, but the numbers (in my life anyway) suggest an affinity for females over males. Perhaps that is also due to geography, who knows? ;)

I can also see all 3 votes, so im sure i clicked the poll. :)


~Seth-Ra

Andro
01-13-2013, 12:13 AM
I can also see all 3 votes, so im sure i clicked the poll. :)

There are four people who seemingly 'voted' so far... You, Zoas, Dev and myself... But only three votes show up :)

Seth-Ra
01-13-2013, 12:15 AM
There are four people who seemingly 'voted' so far... You, Zoas, Dev and myself... But only three votes show up :)

Oh oh oh. I see. :)

I definitely hit the poll. :)
tis all i know.


~Seth-Ra

zoas23
01-13-2013, 12:18 AM
After I have voted, I returned to the thread and my vote was missing (there were no votes), but the "machine" still told me that I had already voted and that I couldn't "vote again".

I think something got broken after I voted.

EDIT: then I decided to hit F5 and "the machine" told me that 2 persons had voted, but there was only I vote, which was option 6.

I think I managed to "break the system" (LOL... I think there was some sort of system error after I voted... but if it doesn't keep on going on, then it's probably not worthy to investigate what's going on... unless one of the moderators is an enthusiast computer geek!).

Awani
01-13-2013, 12:21 AM
After I have voted, I returned to the thread and my vote was missing (there were zero votes), but the "machine" still told me that I had already voted and that I couldn't "vote again".

I think something got broken after I voted.

Fixed.

:cool:

Yes I can tamper with polls... so there is a risk of election frauds here... beware!

Andro
01-13-2013, 12:32 AM
Yes I can tamper with polls... so there is a risk of election frauds here... beware!

But ultimately it wouldn't do any good to tamper with polls :)

After all, we want to have a genuine representation of what's going on... It's not some political election where someone is a 'winner'... It's a celebration of diversity!

I guess the tampering option is meant for exactly situations like these, when someone's vote doesn't stick due to some system glitch or something...

Andro
01-13-2013, 12:52 AM
I know this is general stuff but it would fit in our sexual alchemy area... no? That place should cover all aspects of sex/sex energy of which sexual preference is a big part.

I've considered posting this 'over there', but settled on here, because of the rather general (less alchemy-related) topic.

However, by judging according to the directions this is taking, I'm not so sure anymore :)

If you feel it's better to move it to Spiritus Vitae (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?79-Spiritus-Vitae), I have no problem with it...

Ghislain
01-13-2013, 07:40 AM
3. I would have to agree with Dev, and I think if people were to look deeper into their personal relationships most who class
themselves as heterosexual would be around that mark, but perhaps society puts them in denial.

I may think differently after watching the film Androgynus has suggested.

IMO and it is only such...I believe if you place yourself at either end of the scale you need to have a serious look at yourself and how you
relate to others.

I have to admit when it comes to general aesthetics women come out top every time, I do think we men got beaten with the ugly stick
during creation :(

Love you guys http://www.wilcom2.com/Pictures/Smiley_wink.gif

Ghislain

zoas23
01-13-2013, 10:07 AM
3. I would have to agree with Dev, and I think if people were to look deeper into their personal relationships most who class
themselves as heterosexual would be around that mark, but perhaps society puts them in denial.

I would only agree with that idea if we were talking about a baby.
I think we are born "sexual" and able to fit into every sexual orientation and into every sexual activity/interest (I mean the huge list of practices that go beyond "orientation"... such as fetishes, S&M and so on).
... and, yes, we are taught about a lot of things, our experiences define the kind of person that we become, our way of thinking, our way of desiring, etc... So, yeah, we are shaped both by ourselves and by others.
(Scientist who try to find absurd things such as "the gay DNA", "the straight DNA", etc... mostly make me laugh).

So if I think about me (or anyone) as a baby, then yeah... I (or anyone) could have "evolved" into a person who is straight, bisexual or gay... just like I could have been very interested in sports if I've had a different life.
Is there people who denies some parts of their sexuality? For sure... probably we all do, but it's not always the "sexual orientation".

Didn't you ever had a "sexual partner" who had a very specific sexual interest that you didn't share at all?
A long time ago I had a girlfriend who enjoyed a lot the idea of mixing eating food and sexuality.
Of course, she was a person who really enjoyed the simple act of eating and found it very sexual.
In my case... well, I don't really find a lot of pleasure in the act of eating.
We both did our best effort to make this "eating food fetish" as sexy as possible... and I don't think I had any kind of "denial" about it, nor I think there's really a "social pressure" about not mixing eating with sex... nor I think that such thing was really a "taboo" for me.
I simply didn't enjoy it and I never found the way to make it "sexy" for me. It wasn't "repulsive", but mostly like a "why are we eating right now?????".
For me it was as sexy as trying to repeat the multiplication tables aloud whilst having sex... it was simply something I didn't relate to sex at all and couldn't find any way of making it feel "sexy"... it was, indeed, very "not sexual".

If there was a poll with a scale that goes from 0 to 6 about how sexy it is to eat food whilst having sex, I would have voted 0.

So, yeah... we are all born "sexual" and in a potential way we are all able to "evolve" into liking any kind of sexual orientation, any kind of sexual practice... but I don't think that such thing leads to the conclusion that everyone who doesn't vote 3 (or those who vote 0 or 6) are living in denial and are not being honest with themselves.
Also... This whole thing made me remember that I have in my house a painting that a friend gave me as a gift... the painting is a picture of 2 persons kissing, but it's hard to tell which one is their sex... and above them there's a sign that says "fuck gender roles" (actually, that's literally what it says, for some reason she wrote the sign in English, even if we live in a Spanish speaking country!). I have that painting, I like it, I like it's message.... and I still vote 0.

LOL... could it be that our society takes sexual orientations and genders too seriously and this also leads to the idea that not being bisexual means that a person is missing something he actually likes?
What if we didn't take sexual orientations too seriously and we thought that being straight, gay or bisexual is as important as liking or not liking "The Lord of the Rings" book and movies?
I tried to read the book, but gave up after some 75 pages.... I found it boring.... It's very strange for me to give up reading a book, but with "the lord of the rings" I made an exception.
Then when the movie was released a friend asked me to go to the cinema with her and watch it... I thought it was one of the most boring movies I ever saw, whilst my friend really loved it and was almost touching heaven with her hands whilst watching the movie.

I get why she liked the movie and why she also likes the book... though I also get why I don't feel interested at all in that story.

Sometimes when we are really into something we think that the ones who aren't are missing something... and this is often true, but quite often it is not like that.

Ghislain
01-13-2013, 11:43 AM
Zoas

I find myself in agreement with what you said above and perhaps I didnít give it enough thought
before posting. However I was not implying that everyone should be a 3 as I realise everyone is an
individual, what I was trying to say was that everyone should allow room for changes in their life for
further discovery.

I don't think I know myself completely and I am thankful for this as I can still be amazed at the twists
and turns that life can throw at me; even if not always pleasurable, I take the attitude of ďdonít knock
it till youíve tried itĒ.

It would have been a greater iimpact if, instead of using the example of The Lord of The Rings, you
had used your experience of a sexual encounter with another man, as it is the subject at hand.

To lump oneself to the outer limit of any scale, to me, is like telling yourself there is no room for
changes to occur. Isn't it true that your subconscious listens to your conscious; and wonít it keep
repeating what you tell it?

I am probably not exactly a 3 myself, but itís a good place to start :)

Thank you for being so candid, I learned a lot.

Ghislain

Andro
01-13-2013, 04:09 PM
1. I somewhat sense that this poll/thread is being (partially) addressed 'ideologically', instead of how it actually (De-Facto) pertains to personal life experience.
The Kinsey scale is about one thing only: To determine where one is on the continuum of gender-to-gender sexual attraction, at the time of answering the poll.
Fetishes, friendships & associations, emotions, etc... - are not included in this particular scale/continuum.

The Kinsey scale has been indeed criticized for these limitations, but then again, it has a very narrow and focused purpose, for which it does the job very well IMO.

What it's asking is not what we all supposedly are 'in potential'. It very simply asks where our actual sexual attractions currently lie, whether acted upon or not.
And no, it doesn't mean you have to be attracted to all (or most) members of the gender your scale placement indicates.
It means that WHEN you feel sexual attraction, it's towards the gender(s) you specified on the scale.

If, for example, you say you're a Three, but never actually act on it (or at least seriously contemplate/fantasize being sexually intimate with both genders) - then you're not a Three. It's as simple as that.
Another example - if you say you're a Zero but actually did/do have even very rare instances where the thought of being sexually intimate with the same gender crosses your mind, you're probably closer to a One.

2. I don't think people who feel really comfortable with their sexuality should actively seek out experimenting with other variations, just for the sake of it.
However, leaving the door open for a possible opportunity may be useful.

I myself know I'm a Six (or damn near close :)). I have been sexually intimate with women as well, and it definitely wasn't 'IT' for me. It was in fact terrible.
As a teenager, I was still trying to conform - but it killed me from within (pretending to enjoy/fancy the opposite gender). I already knew deep inside who I was in this regard.

3. I don't know (or care) if it's DNA related or not, although I feel it is (at least to some extent). It's just the way I'm 'wired', and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I DID try the alternative...

4. Unlike some gay people who claim that bisexuality is bogus and an excuse for closeted gay men to live double lives - I personally DO see and regard bisexuality as very real and valid, although quite a few bisexual men I know make strange claims such as "men are for sex but women are for love". Whatever. Some bisexuals I know have no problem with wild same-gender sex, but for some reason are incapable to kiss the same gender they are having sex with :confused:

5. I would suggest to answer the poll in the spirit in which it is presented. Plain and simple.
Which gender(s) is/are more/most likely to trigger YOUR sexual arousal/fantasies.
That's all there is to this poll and scale. Nothing more.

6. I also recommend watching the Kinsey movie (online link provided in the first post on this thread).

7. If you by any chance 'experimented in college', it doesn't necessarily mean that you're Gay or Bi. But it might :p

zoas23
01-14-2013, 02:46 AM
1. I somewhat sense that this poll/thread is being (partially) addressed 'ideologically', instead of how it actually (De-Facto) pertains to personal life experience.
The Kinsey scale is about one thing only: To determine where one is on the continuum of gender-to-gender sexual attraction, at the time of answering the poll.
Fetishes, friendships & associations, emotions, etc... - are not included in this particular scale/continuum.

Oh... I got into the discussion about emotions, fetishes, that which is potential, etc... For some reason I thought it was interesting.... but I still voted the option that was more accurate for me beyond any kind of "ideology" (the zero/hetero option).
I didn't think the discussion was causing troubles in the thread.



3. I don't know (or care) if it's DNA related or not, although I feel it is (at least to some extent). It's just the way I'm 'wired', and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I DID try the alternative...


Really? I often laugh about those DNA studies that try to explain some issues by invoking the DNA. Some scientists take these issues very far and try to find "leftist" and "right wing" DNA!
I don't think we are machines... nor I believe in the fatum (destiny).
There is a great book titled "Eroticism" by Georges Bataille... it doesn't really say much on sexual orientations (and actually it is written from a quite heterosexual point of view)... But the key point of the book is that humans aren't simply "sexual", but also "erotic".

Anyway... sorry if I was taking the thread to places where it was not meant to go.

Ghislain
01-14-2013, 11:27 AM
An example of the Kinsey questionnaire can be seen HERE (https://www.indiana.edu/~kinres/sise/), but even though you can go through a multiple question paper I don’t think you can retrieve your results as this census was taken in 2004.

A short test called The Klein Sexual Orientation Grid Quiz can be taken HERE (http://www.youngsouthampton.org/children-and-young-people/advice/relationships/sexuality/klein-sexual-orientation-grid-quiz.aspx)

An introduction to the tool can be seen below:


If you want to explore your own sexual orientation, here is a simple research instrument that was used by
Fritz Klein and others. It is a refinement of the Kinsey Scale which ranked behaviour and "psychologic
reactions" on a scale from 0 to 6, with 0 being exclusively heterosexual, 6 being exclusively homosexual,
and 3 being equally homosexual/heterosexual.

Klein wanted to test his idea that sexual orientation was a "dynamic, multivariable process", so he
developed the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid. He thought that an individual's sexual orientation was
composed of sexual and non-sexual variables which differed over time.

My results was 1.2

Note: the test is only as accurate as your honesty to yourself.

Ghislain

Andro
01-14-2013, 09:11 PM
I don't mind this thread exploring all sorts of interpersonal attractions/repulsions, with everything they imply...

I was actually pleasantly surprised that people even reacted/replied, since I wasn't really expecting it to get any attention at all :)


the test is only as accurate as your honesty to yourself.

Yes, all I'm asking is that if you DO participate in this poll, to do so from your own honest personal experience, rather than a generalization of how we might perceive things to be.

This being said, I am aware that there may well be limitations to the levels of internal honesty we are able to consciously bear without burning a brain circuit or two :)


My result was 1.2

This may probably be closer to you actual (current) placement on the continuum (just a guess)...

I certainly don't expect an overflow of 'Fives' and 'Sixes', but it would be nice to see at least a few 'Ones' or even 'Twos' :)

I also want to express my thanks and appreciation to everyone participating in this poll, even if anonymously...

zoas23
01-14-2013, 09:23 PM
A short test called The Klein Sexual Orientation Grid Quiz can be taken HERE (http://www.youngsouthampton.org/children-and-young-people/advice/relationships/sexuality/klein-sexual-orientation-grid-quiz.aspx)
Note: the test is only as accurate as your honesty to yourself.

I got a 0.71
I think I got this extra 0.71 points because of the question "Hetero/Gay Lifestyle: What is the sexual identity of the people with whom you socialise?"... and certainly I do socialize with gay/lesbian friends a lot.
Maybe the online test is more useful to do what Androgynus suggested, which is answering in a realistic way rather than "ideological".



I certainly don't expect an overflow of 'Fives' and 'Sixes', but it would be nice to see at least a few 'Ones' or even 'Twos' :)


It is strange, at least in my country, there is a very high amount of gays and lesbians interested in Hermeticism and Alchemy (i.e, a typical "study group" about any of these subjects has a tendency to have something between a 30% or 40% of gays and lesbians... except for the few groups which have some sort of weird "anti-gay" policy, but they are a rare exception).

I was somehow expecting an "overflow of sixes".

Seth-Ra
01-14-2013, 11:41 PM
According to the quiz Ghislain posted, im a 1.

I figured as much, given emotional connections etc etc - but purely sexual attraction id still rate a solid 0. (Cause just creating emotional bonds and having some non-hetero friends, does not equate to my desire to be anything different than the hetero-ness that it is. lol)

So, on a personal (soul-to-soul) level, id say a 1. On a sexual (what im physically attracted to) level, 0.
:)




~Seth-Ra

Illen A. Cluf
01-15-2013, 01:00 AM
According to the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid - Online Quiz I score a 0.

I've been very strongly attracted to the opposite sex since I was five years of age or earlier. The earliest confirmed memory of strong physical attraction towards a girl was in Kindergarten, which is unusually early (I still even remember her name). I also recall being attracted to a curly blonde girl playing on a beach with a small bright pail and shovel a year or two earlier than that, when I was either 3 or 4 years of age.

But I'm interested in the theory of how this is relevant to Alchemy, or to those who pursue Alchemy.

Andro
01-15-2013, 02:24 PM
According to the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid - Online Quiz I score a 0.

I would not recommend using the Klein quiz to answer the Kinsey poll... It has some categories I find questionable...
For example, one's associations do NOT necessarily imply anything about one's sexual attractions.
Quite a few very straight girls LOVE hanging out with gay guys ('fag-hags' in slang :)). It does not make them any less straight.
Zoas admitted he does socialize with gay/lesbian friends a lot, and it does NOT make him less 'straight', either.
So, I think the Klein test is a bit over-complicating things for this purpose.
The Kinsey Scale may have its limitations, but its great advantage is in its simplicity: You just say what gender(s) you are sexually attracted to in YOUR life experience. That's it.


But I'm interested in the theory of how this is relevant to Alchemy, or to those who pursue Alchemy.

Since this is not the purpose of this thread, I have intentionally placed it under 'General Discussions' - so we can separate it from Alchemy and other possibly related areas.

The subject of Alchemy and sexual orientation has been touched on and discussed in a few other threads, like HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2043-The-Third-Gender-My-Psychedelic-Experience), HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1197-Sexual-orientation-and-Alchemy), HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1418-Monroe-Encounter) and HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1363-Ga%28y%29te-Keepers).
_______________________________________

Also, I can of course not vote on the Kinsey poll for other forum members who appear not to have logged in for quite some time, but I'll provide a few public quotes from them instead:


Through the years, although I may not have accepted it before, I have had sexual fantasies about men and women alike. I'm bi.

I’m aware of how, as a queer person, I process this stuff

Alchemy, BDSM, non-monogamy and GLBT are some the few things that I'm really passionate about

(GLBT means 'Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgender')

Illen A. Cluf
01-15-2013, 05:32 PM
I would not recommend using the Klein quiz to answer the Kinsey poll... It has some categories I find questionable...

I did try both and came out a "0" on both.


Zoas admitted he does socialize with gay/lesbian friends a lot, and it does NOT make him less 'straight', either.

They are people with likable personalities like anyone else so I have no issue whatsoever socializing with gay/lesbians. In fact I have had gay friends in the past and even had a transvestite acquaintance.


Since this is not the purpose of this thread, I have intentionally placed it under 'General Discussions' - so we can separate it from Alchemy and other possibly related areas.

My apologies. I was under the impression that there might have been a theory about the particiants of an alchemy group and their orientations. I have to admit that, although based on the small sample size, there does seem to be a significant number who are not totally straight. Perhaps Alchemy attracts those who have learned to live with different perspectives and are thereby more open-minded.

Awani
01-15-2013, 09:10 PM
Perhaps Alchemy attracts those who have learned to live with different perspectives and are thereby more open-minded.

No I think it more proves we are all bi deep down, some more one way than the other. But it is true that those with a very narrow mindset would not like change/s, which is what alchemy is all about.

:cool:

Illen A. Cluf
01-15-2013, 10:15 PM
No I think it more proves we are all bi deep down, some more one way than the other.

:cool:
Possibly, but if so, for some of us, it must be VERY deep down :-)

Awani
01-15-2013, 10:17 PM
Well if reincarnation is true and you are a woman in the next life then you'll be fucking guys... unless you become a lesbian and then, yes, it is very deep down indeed.

:cool:

Illen A. Cluf
01-15-2013, 11:10 PM
Well if reincarnation is true and you are a woman in the next life then you'll be fucking guys... unless you become a lesbian and then, yes, it is very deep down indeed.

:cool:

But isn't the "physical" attraction related to the body? I.e. its hormones, etc.? With reincarnation, it is the soul/spirit that reincarnates, not the body. So therefore each incarnation would have its own type of physical attraction.

That's why I think that mentally (spiritually/soulwise), we are likely all "bi", even close to the surface. Thus we could love a man's personality as equally as a woman's. But "physically", that may not necessarily be so.

Awani
01-18-2013, 08:24 PM
Yes, but the physical attraction is probably habit in most cases. The reason gender students never agree and why certain feminist thinking clash with science is that there is no one truth and never will be.

We are a world of six billion very distinct and individual perverts.

:cool:

Andro
01-18-2013, 08:33 PM
We are a world of six billion very distinct and individual perverts.

Amen.

(I think we're already past the seven billion mark, BTW...)

Awani
01-18-2013, 08:33 PM
Ok, well I don't keep track on all the fucking;)

Footnote: Perversion, according to Wiki, was originally defined as "one who has forsaken a doctrine or system regarded as true, apostate."

I certainly ascribe to this.

:cool:

Lunsola
03-18-2013, 09:55 PM
I voted for 3. I'm attracted to men and women but not just because they are men or women. For the most part I'm just interested in attractive people who don't cause drama or lie to me about what they want.

Kiorionis
01-30-2014, 07:34 PM
I voted 0. but that was before I was comfortable with myself (about a year ago). now I don't really care. After thinking about it, I'm probably more around a 2.

resistance = bad
acceptance = good

:)

edit: you can change my vote if you'd like, Androgynus

Andro
01-30-2014, 07:40 PM
I voted 0. but that was before I was comfortable with myself (about a year ago).
Now I don't really care. After thinking about it, I'm probably more around a 2.

Thanks for sharing that. I changed your vote to reflect where you currently stand.

While it's impossible to see who voted what, the actual numbers may be changed (from an ethical perspective) ONLY if someone changes their mind, especially on such a topic that reflects a sort of forum statistic (we do want it to be as accurate as possible, after all...)

III
01-31-2014, 09:14 AM
I placed myself at "0" some ways back and am still there. I must confess, I read the WHOLE thing, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male and the other 2 volumes. That in itself makes me a little different from most.


My sexual orientation is thoroughly hetero. I do trance work with both males and females, individually and small group. That of course brings up any fears they have of all kinds.


I have gotten along better with the girls and later women all my life. An awful lot of men have a problem with me. I just don't fit their idea of what I "ought" to be like. Tantric Alchemy isn't everybody's idea of fun.

Awani
02-03-2014, 02:02 AM
I voted 0. but that was before I was comfortable with myself (about a year ago). now I don't really care.

Respect!

Accepting change or accepting being wrong is something more people should do regardless of whatever subject it concerns.

:cool:

Fireball
02-09-2014, 01:39 PM
I voted 2, while the idea that probably in the future it will move on to 3 crossed my mind.

My body is highly responsive to a heterosexual partner. I mean, sexually I am attracted to women more than to men. The pure animalistic desires are almost always associated with women in my mind. My sexual fantasies are about women most of the time. 80% of my sexual experiences have been with women. And the greatest sexual satisfactions have been gained with women.

But...
The problem starts when the sexual act ends! :)

While I find it highly comforting to have sex with a woman, I find it difficult to fully enjoy anything else, unrelated to sex, with her.

I prefer men as a business associates, as equal partners in project development, as a roommate or housemate, as a partner for life, as my teacher or as my student. In my life, men had more influence on my inner-growth. The most interesting conversations have been with men. With men it is easier to have a productive dialog, where old opinions are transformed into new unexpected ideas, and where both parts enjoy the conversation fully. It is simply more productive to bond with men rather than with women.

I remember the look one man, wearing a nice suit, looking highly enthusiastic about something, gave me on a street. It was a 2 seconds spark that ran between us. We recognized each other on the street and found ourselves the most attractive things to look at, that day on a street. I never saw him before or after that moment. I don't know if he was gay or straight. But I would like to spend time in his company just because of this spark. That kind of sparkly moments happened several times in my life. Always with men, never with women. I simply cannot deny the strong energetic connection that I have with men.

Speaking in financial terms and in cold numbers… In relationships with men I get a higher return on my investment than in relationships with women. :)
And speaking from the heart - while I am sexually fluctuating, currently more towards hetero, when I think of a long term relationship, I see it with another man...

Ghislain
02-09-2014, 05:04 PM
Fireball, I think you have spoken words that most would only dare to think and I have to be honest I have thought the same. I have not spoken this as it seems to verge on the edge of misogyny and I don't hate women by any stretch of the imagination; perhaps it is the Venus and Mars thing.

I guess I could bring in the old cliche, "My wife never understood me" :) It's true!!!

Ghislain


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Kiorionis
06-28-2015, 12:52 AM
You can place the United States of America down for #3 if you want ;)

Supreme Court Ruling Makes Same-Sex Marriage a Right Nationwide (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/supreme-court-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0)


“No longer may this liberty be denied,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote for the majority in the historic decision. “No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were.”

archerner
08-27-2015, 03:46 PM
I voted 6, step aside ladies. ;)

I only like guys, have since I can remember. Had a crush on a girl once, but that was because she liked Coldplay, which is pretty gay. It might sound harsh, but to me women all kind of look the same, I think they're all beautiful and all but Ive never been like oh she's so fine wow. It's more like oh there's a woman. But when it comes to their personalities and minds women are the most colorful, eccentric and mysterious to me. I have two extremely close girl friends I'd marry in a moment, it's just that whole gender thing getting in the way. Friendships are more pure anyway.

Id like to clarify, women aren't grey floating clouds to me, I'd imagine it's similar to how straight guys act around each other. Ladies are my bros, and I feel like that mentality is part of what makes me and people like me so valuable to society at large. I can't tell you how many times my friends throughout the years have confided in me how safe and free they feel hanging out. I'm a tall hairy guy most people think I'm straight at first glance.

At a macro scale I think men and women who aren't herero find ways to compliment and draw out virtues in others, if they are virtuous themselves. And vice versa. I used to think of us as a bridge between the genders until I realized you need two points to build a bridge and we're all one. The beauty of it is we're all lead by that immutable inner voice towards the ones we love. It all evens out in the end. Humans are like spores in a maze spreading out in every different way, exploring for that magic way out.