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Ghislain
01-23-2013, 03:29 PM
I have no knowledge at all of Latin and also no ability to read signs or symbols from old texts
and thus on the hope of gaining a little better understanding of Typus Mundi I turned to the Google
Translator.

Taking the link out of the Spiritus Mundi thread, post 464 by Androgynus...Typus Mundi (http://agriculturaceleste.blogspot.co.il/2005/06/typus-mundi.html)

I have attempted to translate the captions at the bottom of each picture. I am sure there are those here who
could do a better job and thus I have numbered each translation for reference; also the text is in, what appears
to be, an old English font so I may not have captured it correctly in the first place.

If anyone should have the inclination I would love to see a better translation.

See translated text below...

Ghislain

1
Typus
Mundi
In quo eiu’s
Calamitates,
Ef
Pericu la,
Nec non,
Diuini, humanique
Amoris
Antipathia,
Emblematice olim pro-
Postita
A
rr.c.s.t.a.
nunc denuo in lucem
eduntur

Type of
The world
In it's His
calamities,
ef
Dangerous la,
Did not,
Divine and human,
love
antipathy,
Emblematice once-
placed for
rr.c.s.t.a.
now once again in the light
edible

2
Quam fordet milu terra,dum codum adspicio!
How BARLEY KITE earth when codum LOOK!
3
Totus mundus in malign (maliligno) positus eft.
The whole world of the evil (maliligno) set fln.
4
Sic malum creirt unicum in omne malum
In this way, the only evil in all that is evil creirt
5
St potiar, patior. Patieris, non potieris.
It is a gain, I suffer. Will you allow, not possessed.
6
Quis levior? cui plus ponderis addit amor.
Who is lighter? adds more weight to the love.
7
His vertitur orbis
With these changes to the world
8
In cruce sola quies.
On the cross, the only respite.
9
Latet hostis, et otia ducis
Flank of the enemy, and the general ease
10
Occident utraque risu
Kills both laughter
11
Mundi me lapsus adauget
Cleanse me slip increases
12
Frustra quis stabilem figat in orbe grandum
In vain have I fix any one in the world with a great stable
13
Donec totum expleat orbem
You can fill the whole world
14
Non amat iste; sed hamat amor
He does not love, but the love of Hamas

Note:
In modern Hebrew Hamas means - to frighten, terrify, confound, stun, confuse, perplex.
In Arabic Hamas means - enthusiasm, fire, ardor, fervor, zeal, fanaticism, but Hamas is
also an acronym of the Arabic phrase "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya" or
"Islamic Resistance Movement".

15
Quaim grave servitium est, quod levis esca parit
Shewed a service that produces a light fuel
16
Non omne, quod hic micat, aurum est
Not all that glitters is here, the gold is
17
Hic oritur tenebris splendour, et immoritur
Here comes the dark splendor, and DIE
18
Sic decipit orbis
It deceives the world
19
Sic lusibus aptior orbis
so play the world fitter
20
Struit ut ruat
Setting to collapse
21
Non bene conveniunt
Did not go well together
22
Hic pissima, hic optima servat
This is possible, he keeps the best
23
Vana fuga est: crux, quam fugis, heret.
Flight is vain: Cross which you flee, the heir of.
24
In cruce Stat Securus amor
On the cross stands Easy the love
25
Erras: hac itur ad illam.
You are mistaken: this is the path to it.
26
Vincit qui longius abycit
Conquers longer abycit
27
Hac animant pueros cymbala; at illa viros.
This animate boys on the cymbals yet her the men.
28
Hac vincitur; illac perditur
This conquered, that path may wither
29
Venturum exhorresco diem
HORRIFIED would come forward day
30
Post tenebras Spero lucem
After darkness I hope the light.
31
Tinnit: inane est
Sound, it is empty
32
Omnibus hic Deus est omnia; inane nihil.
To all this God is all things; empty nothing.
33
Erit ex hoc aquior orbis
There will be out of this world water
34
Patet a’thrae; clauditur orbi
Clearly, the world is closed

Kiorionis
01-23-2013, 08:29 PM
Hi Ghislain, here is my translation of a couple of them:

Plate number 3 actually reads: "totus mundus in maligno positus est"

'the whole world lie in wickedness'

this is the plate where the man is taking the fruit from the snake in the tree.


and plate 4 reads: "sic malum crevit unicum in omne malum"

'thus evil increased every other evil'.

this is the plate where the man is dropping seeds (from the snake-fruit) onto the globe containing seven animal heads. In the background are the four elements.

Ghislain
01-23-2013, 10:55 PM
Thanks Kiorionis

It is funny because if you add back the word in brackets "(maliligno)" in G'Trans'. it reads
"The whole world of the evil (maliligno) is set"

When I put your correction of plate 4 back into the G'Trans' and put a capital S it reads
"In this way, the only evil in all that is evil has grown"

Which do you prefer?

Are you familiar with Latin, do you have a better translator or did I make a mistake?

Perhaps with input from others we can get the whole thing properly translated. :)

Ghislain

Kiorionis
01-23-2013, 11:02 PM
I am somewhat familiar with latin, but more familiar with the way they used to handle the type during printing.
If a printer ran out of s's for his block he'd use an f to cover it, or the other way around. same with v's and u's and other letters which look similar.

It definitely takes some getting used to when reading though.
So if there was any mistake made it was the printer's fault :p (https://lh3.ggpht.com/-6SjpA--DCvc/TygLvyf0z7I/AAAAAAAAjeg/NCHu2xR1qQM/s1600/printer_wallpaper_1024.jpg)

Ghislain
01-23-2013, 11:17 PM
lol I like that explanation, it takes the emphasis off my fumbling's.

I have edited the above post 3 you may want to re-read

I like the pic

I will keep a copy of the translation and insert the corrections then post it
periodically so as not to take up too much space...perhaps every week or so.

Ghislain

Kiorionis
01-24-2013, 01:14 AM
Thanks Kiorionis

It is funny because if you add back the word in brackets "(maliligno)" in G'Trans'. it reads
"The whole world of the evil (maliligno) is set"

When I put your correction of plate 4 back into the G'Trans' and put a capital S it reads
"In this way, the only evil in all that is evil has grown"

Which do you prefer?

Are you familiar with Latin, do you have a better translator or did I make a mistake?

Perhaps with input from others we can get the whole thing properly translated. :)

Ghislain

Google translator usually gives the most popular definitions of the words. I think if you mouse over the translation it will give you alternates.

And as to which is preferable, whichever makes more sense to you given the context. It seems the Typus Mundi starts out following the Genesis story of Adam in the garden of Eden.

and I'm not sure about 'malilingo'... some variation of maligno I'm guessing.

Illen A. Cluf
01-25-2013, 04:11 AM
2
Quam fordet milu terra,dum codum adspicio!
How BARLEY KITE earth when codum LOOK!


This should be:
2. Quam sordet terra dum coelum adspicio!

("sordet" rather than "fordet" and "coelum" rather than "codum").

Illen

Ghislain
01-25-2013, 10:48 AM
Thanks Illen

I put "Quam sordet terra, milu,coelum adspicio!" into GT..

It returned "How dirty ground, the pike, I gazed the sky!"

The pike comes from "milu" another offer for this was Gurnard which is a fish so i guess it means pike in
terms of a fish...

Ghislain

Edit: Should have read "Quam sordet milu, terra, coelum adspicio!" which GT gives "How dirty the pike, earth, sky gazed!"
If you take out the comma after "terra" you get "How dirty the pike, see heaven on earth!"

Illen A. Cluf
01-25-2013, 12:12 PM
Thanks Illen

I put "Quam sordet terra, milu,coelum adspicio!" into GT..

It returned "How dirty ground, the pike, I gazed the sky!"

The pike comes from "milu" another offer for this was Gurnard which is a fish so i guess it means pike in
terms of a fish...

Ghislain

Edit: Should have read "Quam sordet milu, terra, coelum adspicio!" which GT gives "How dirty the pike, earth, sky gazed!"
If you take out the comma after "terra" you get "How dirty the pike, see heaven on earth!"

I think it translates as: "How sordid is the earth to me, while I look toward heaven!"

Illen

Illen A. Cluf
01-25-2013, 05:14 PM
Edit: Should have read "Quam sordet milu, terra, coelum adspicio!"

Actually, it should read:

"Quam sordet mihi, terra, coelum adspicio!"

The "Milu" should be "mihi".

Other corrections:

3. "eft" should be "est".
4. "creirt" should be "crevit".
5. "St" should be "Ut".
9. Question mark at end.
10. "Occident" should be "Occidunt".
12. Question mark at end.
15. "Quaim" should be "Quam".
17. "splendour" should be "splendor".
"et" should be "&".
23. "heret" should be "haeret".
26. "abycit" should be "abijcit".
27. "Hac" should be "Haec".
33. "aquior" should be "aequior". It is possible also that the text is in error and the word should be "aequitor".
34. "a'thrae" should be "aethrae".

I'll also have different translation suggestions for each line, sometime later.

Illen A. Cluf
01-26-2013, 04:15 PM
Here is the corrected Latin along with a suggested improved translation.

Further improvements are encouraged.

1
Typus
Mundi
In quo eius
Calamitates,
Et
Pericula,
Nec non,
Diuini, humanique
Amoris
Antipathia,
Emblematice olim pro-
posita
A
rr.c.s.i.a.
nunc denuo in lucem
eduntur

1
Symbol of
The world
In it's
Calamities,
And
Dangers,
No not,
Divine, human,
love
antipathy,
Emblematice formerly
proposed
By
rr.c.s.t.a.
now once again in the light
published.


2
Quam sordet mihi terra,dum coelum adspicio!
How sordid my earth, while I gazed heavenward!

3
Totus mundus in malign (maliligno) positus est.
The whole world is in the tree of evil.

4
Sic malum crevit unicum in omne malum.
Thus, the only evil in all that is evil has grown.

5
Ut potiar, patior. Patieris, non potieris.
To win her, I suffer. By suffering, we shall gain possession.

6
Quis levior? cui plus ponderis addit amor.
Which is lighter? Love adds more weight.

7
His vertitur orbis.
With these changes to the world.

8
In cruce sola quies.
In the cross, is the only peace.

9
Latet hostis, et otia ducis?
The enemy hides, and the leader takes leisure?

10
Occidunt utraque risu.
They kill both through laughter.

11
Mundi me lapsus adauget.
The world sees me increasingly slip.

12
Frustra: quis stabilem figat in orbe grandum?
It is vain in this world to be bound to high status.

13
Donec totum expleat orbem.
Until it can fill the whole world.

14
Non amat iste; sed hamat amor.
He does not love, but the love of Hamas.

15
Quam grave servitium est, quod levis esca parit.
How painful is servitude, that gives birth to light food.

16
Non omne, quod hic micat, aurum est.
Not all that glitters here, is gold.

17
Hic oritur tenebris splendor, & immoritur.
This brightness springs from darkness, and dies.

18
Sic decipit orbis.
In this way it deceives the world.

19
Sic lusibus aptior orbis.
Thus the world is best suited for games.

20
Struit ut ruat.
It is built to collapse.

21
Non bene convenient.
Not well agreed.

22
Hic pissima, hic optima servat.
He is disgraceful, he keeps the best.

23
Vana fuga est: crux, quam fugis, haeret.
Your flight is in vain: the cross that you flee, clings to you.

24
In cruce Stat Securus amor.
Pure love remains in the cross.

25
Erras: hac itur ad illam.
You are mistaken: this is the path to it.

26
Vincit qui longius abijcit.
Whoever casts further, conquers.

27
Haec animant pueros cymbala; at illa viros.
This animates cymbols for children; the other for men.

28
Hac vincitur; illac perditur.
On the one hand she triumphs, on the other she loses.

29
Venturum exhorresco diem.
I dread the arrival of daylight.

30
Post tenebras Spero lucem.
After darkness I hope for the light.

31
Tinnit: inane est.
It resonates: it is empty.

32
Omnibus hic Deus est omnia; inane nihil.
God is all things in all things; nothing is empty.

33
Erit ex hoc aequior orbis.
The world will emerge more favorable.

34
Patet aethrae; clauditur orbi.
The heavens open; the earth closes.

Ghislain
01-26-2013, 07:03 PM
Illen

That was amazing...Thanks

But I have to ask...

Was that translation through logic and learning or was there a little artistic licence included?

Ghislain

Illen A. Cluf
01-26-2013, 07:23 PM
Was that translation through logic and learning or was there a little artistic licence included?

Ghislain

Primarily manually checking the text for accuracy, manually using the Google translation program for each line, studying the general meaning of the associated pictures, and deduction. I had to check all the versions of each translated word in Google, sometimes separately, since their association often resulted in a translation that didn't make much sense. A lot of effort went into this work.

There's also a French translation of the phrases online, although I didn't always agree with the translation. Some of the French interpretations seemed to be very subjective.

Illen

solomon levi
01-26-2013, 10:40 PM
orbis should not be 'world' imo but sometimes relates to eyes or the globe. for ex, 'the eyes/orbis are deceived' instead of the world is deceived.
the one line should read 'heavy is servitude, light is equality/parity.

Illen A. Cluf
01-27-2013, 03:32 AM
orbis should not be 'world' imo but sometimes relates to eyes or the globe. for ex, 'the eyes/orbis are deceived' instead of the world is deceived.
the one line should read 'heavy is servitude, light is equality/parity.

Thanks, Solomon. Much appreciated!

Illen

Rheomode
03-06-2013, 08:10 PM
I don't know if this adds much to what you guys already have here, but in the beginning, the "In quo eius Calamitates, Et Pericula," I feel like the quo is getting lost, this almost reads like a question to me, "In what place or in what state, it's calamities and dangers.." So this might be translated as, "where are the problems with the world image or symbol." And then it's answered: "Nec non, Diuini.." suggesting that the problem isn't with the Divine, but with "humanique Amoris and Antipathia." :)

Don't quote me on that though.

I am learning Latin now, but I am not confident enough that I could contribute anything useful yet, more than what is already here.. but for sure I should have a better idea in about a month or so and I'll revisit. This text is beautiful, thanks for posting it :)

Bel Matina
03-06-2013, 09:06 PM
Here is the corrected Latin along with a suggested improved translation.

Further improvements are encouraged.

1
Typus
Mundi
In quo eius
Calamitates,
Et
Pericula,
Nec non,
Diuini, humanique
Amoris
Antipathia,
Emblematice olim pro-
posita
A
rr.c.s.i.a.
nunc denuo in lucem
eduntur

1
Symbol of
The world
In it's
Calamities,
And
Dangers,
No not,
Divine, human,
love
antipathy,
Emblematice formerly
proposed
By
rr.c.s.t.a.
now once again in the light
published.

"typus" is an image on a wall, like a mosaic or painting. Depending on the period, it came to mean also any complicated image carrying a lot of narrative. "Image" is probably a better translation. "Quo" here is a relative pronoun. The grammar here is quite tricky.

Image of the world, in which (are to be found) its calamities, its dangers, and its antipathy toward the love of neither God nor man, previously proposed emblematically by rr. c. s. t. a. and now once again published openly.



2
Quam sordet mihi terra,dum coelum adspicio!
How sordid my earth, while I gazed heavenward!

How dirty (in the sense of unwashed) the earth seemed to me (mihi is dative) while I gazed at heaven!


3
Totus mundus in maligno (mali ligno) positus est.
The whole world is in the tree of evil.

The whole world is has been put (somewhere) out of malice/in the wood of an apple tree. The grammar is intentionally bad here, so that people will fall for the wrong reading. Normally with "ponere" you would use the accusative with "in", but here the author uses the ablative in both readings. This gives the phrase a static, adverbial sense, so that in the "maligno" reading it gives the cause of the action, to be spiteful in this case, and the "mali ligno" reading gives the location where the entire action takes place rather than the location where the object is put, so that the entire event takes place within the wood of an apple tree.


4
Sic malum crevit unicum in omne malum.
Thus, the only evil in all that is evil has grown.

Mālum means apple, and mălum is a substantive of the adjective malus meaning bad, thus a bad thing. Thus we have a matrix of four readings here depending on where you put length on the ambiguous vowels.

So a single apple comes into being in the whole thing/everything an apple.
So a single apple comes into being in the whole thing/everything something bad.
So a single bad thing comes into being in the whole thing/everything an apple.
So a single bad thing comes into being in the whole thing/everything something bad.

I would recommend playing around putting punctuation in different places.


5
Ut potiar, patior. Patieris, non potieris.
To win her, I suffer. By suffering, we shall gain possession.

In order to obtain (something), I experience/endure it (note: does not necessarily imply that the purpose was obtained). You (singular) will experience/endure it, you (singular) will not possess it.


I'm out of time for now, more later.

Illen A. Cluf
03-07-2013, 12:13 AM
Thanks for all the great suggestions!

This text is really improving.

Illen

Bel Matina
03-07-2013, 04:51 AM
6
Quis levior? cui plus ponderis addit amor.
Which is lighter? Love adds more weight.

Who is lighter? He to whom love gives more weight


7
His vertitur orbis.
With these changes to the world.

By this the round turns.

Orbis can refer to anything round or ring-shaped, including a circular motion conceived of as a figurative object as in orbit. I judge that this line invokes these meanings differentially.


8
In cruce sola quies.
In the cross, is the only peace.

Only on the cross (or in torment) is there rest


9
Latet hostis, et otia ducis?
The enemy hides, and the leader takes leisure?

The enemy (an enemy of the state, as opposed to a personal enemy inimicus) is unknown, and you (singular) are leading leisures? (as opposed to leading armies)


10
Occidunt utraque risu.
They kill both through laughter.

They both fall down laughing.


11
Mundi me lapsus adauget.
The world sees me increasingly slip.

The world's slow glide downward seems to me to be increasing.

I have to note that lapsus "slow glide downward" probably not for nothing resemble lapis "stone"


12
Frustra: quis stabilem figat in orbe grandum?
It is vain in this world to be bound to high status.

He tries to trick you here again with the word order.

In vain (the punctuation suggests that there is a separate, implicit sentence describing what's in vain): who can fix (in the sense of make firm) a great stable man in orbit (there's that word orbis again). Grandum agrees grammatically with stabilem, not orbe, in case. Syntactically it's been raised so that the greatness is emphasized.


13
Donec totum expleat orbem.
Until it can fill the whole world.

While it fills the whole orbit/round (orbis again)


14
Non amat iste; sed hamat amor.
He does not love, but the love of Hamas.

This is a not-quite-grammatical pun. Hamatus mean "hooked", but h in Latin frequently was added to words where it didn't belong after the sound was lost in the lanugage. Amor can be read as a noun "love" or as the passive voice of the verb amo "to love" specifically in the first person singular. So there are more than several readings. Iste means literally "that by you" and can frequently have a pejorative tone (think of one parent to the other "let me tell you what your son did today")

That one does not love, rather it is love that loves.
That one does not love, rather it is hook-love.
That one does not love, rather I am hook-loved.
etc.


15
Quam grave servitium est, quod levis esca parit.
How painful is servitude, that gives birth to light food.

How heavy is slavery/service, which brings forth light victuals(or fish bait)


16
Non omne, quod hic micat, aurum est.
Not all that glitters here, is gold.

yup.


17
Hic oritur tenebris splendor, & immoritur.
This brightness springs from darkness, and dies.

Here brightness rises from darkness and dies upon it

immoritur here very deliberately puns with immortal, so that you could read it deliberately incorrectly as "Here brightness rises from darkness and is/becomes immortal"


18
Sic decipit orbis.
In this way it deceives the world.

Thus it catches/cheats the orbis.


19
Sic lusibus aptior orbis.
Thus the world is best suited for games.

Thus the orbis is made suitable/equipped for games.


20
Struit ut ruat.
It is built to collapse.

ruo has a more general sense of falling down, but okay


21
Non bene convenient.
Not well agreed.

They do not come together well


22
Hic pissima, hic optima servat.
He is disgraceful, he keeps the best.

This one helps/saves/serves most dutifully, this one helps/saves/serves best.


23
Vana fuga est: crux, quam fugis, haeret.
Your flight is in vain: the cross that you flee, clings to you.

pretty much.


24
In cruce Stat Securus amor.
Pure love remains in the cross.

Love remains firmly on the cross.


25
Erras: hac itur ad illam.
You are mistaken: this is the path to it.

You are mistaken: it goes from this one to that one.


26
Vincit qui longius abijcit.
Whoever casts further, conquers.

Whoever throws it down further, wins


27
Haec animant pueros cymbala; at illa viros.
This animates cymbols for children; the other for men.

These cymbals animate children (give life to them, or make them dance, whatever); but these animate men.


28
Hac vincitur; illac perditur.
On the one hand she triumphs, on the other she loses.

with this one it is won; with that one it is lost


29
Venturum exhorresco diem.
I dread the arrival of daylight.

I tremble at the day that is to come.


30
Post tenebras Spero lucem.
After darkness I hope for the light.

Behind/after the shadows I expect light.


31
Tinnit: inane est.
It resonates: it is empty.

It rings: it is empty/an empty space/without substance


32
Omnibus hic Deus est omnia; inane nihil.
God is all things in all things; nothing is empty.

This God is all things to all things; nothing is empty (note the two interpretations, there is no thing that is without substance and/or "nothing" is a thing without substance)


33
Erit ex hoc aequior orbis.
The world will emerge more favorable.

Because of this the orbis will be more even/regular


34
Patet aethrae; clauditur orbi.
The heavens open; the earth closes.

It is open to the sky; it is closed to the orbis.

This is why we don't do machine translation.

I think the orbis here primarily has to be understood as the orbis signifer, i.e. the Zodiac.

If you don't study up on your Latin and Greek you're not going to get any of the jokes.

Illen A. Cluf
03-07-2013, 11:35 AM
Excellent suggestions! Much appreciated.

Illen