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01-26-2013, 08:37 PM
I have come to realize the sillyness of of my mind.
It is silly until it is time. Lol

Anyway!

How is dry distillation done?

I have more questions on this topic.
We will start with this one.

solomon levi
01-26-2013, 09:22 PM
it's done the same as wet, only on dry salts or powders and usually requiring higher temperatures and strong glassware. there are lots of improvisations and precautions one can do... ways to protect the flask like wrapping in clay, etc.
maybe the 'art of distillation' or such works would be helpful with details.

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01-26-2013, 09:41 PM
I will look it up.
As well yes.
Improvisation is the name of the game.
Haha slow to star quick on the fly.

The way steam distillation is done.
I was thinking dry distillation using hot air.
Maybe an open arm in the base vessal to facilitate air flow.

solomon levi
01-26-2013, 10:47 PM
it has to be really hot, usually an open flame.
i think the arm must be submerged to not lose the volatile.
is it a specific salt you intend to work on?

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01-27-2013, 01:11 AM
Vegitation.

Water moistens= steam distillation
Air drys = dry distillation.

I am unfamiliar with any form of dry distillation, still looking it up but havnt found much.
Ideal would be getting a hot air flow to pass through the vegitation in a steam distillation apparatus.


I was thinking possibly if both ends are open, air flow could be facilitated.

I apologize I have mention this process before on here.I have many things I research. I cycle through them as I can't hyper focuse on more than a few subjects at a time.

The philosophy is based on natures processes.I simply havnt been able to replicate in a controlled environment due to lack of equipment.

But! Back to dry distillation. I am all hears my generous friend.

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01-28-2013, 01:47 AM
ON ANOTHER NOTE!

Did you know, that if you mix black ash with water,boil away the water until you have
A "moist" earth with no excess free water.
Mix it around a bit like scrambled eggs.
Then take it to a very very high heat, you will get molten
Ash. :p
the ash becomes red hot as if its burning. But it liquifies because of the water.
The ash is so dry, that it cannot evaporate away.
Their is a perfect medium where it will stay red hot. If taken above this point white
Mushroom shaped ashes pops out of the magma as the moisture became hot enough to escape.
If when made into liquid red hottness, you for a second take the heat away, the ash hardens and will not enter the liquid red hot stage again.

As I have only manually done this using a blow torch, it takes a steady hand to keep it at the perfect heat.
If kept red long enough, the ash will stay red for some time after it has cooled. But after many hours reverts to either a white or black color.
This may be nothing but a neat party trick. But I am thinking of buying a nice strong flask and trying to sustain the molten stage for as long as I can. Experiment with it and maybe a few other minerals.

Simply seeing what appears to be molten liquid is fascinating to the eyes. :p

Anyway!
I cannot find a hotplate that will reach at least a 1000f
So open flame it will have to be.
Quartz flasks I heard are good with high heats as well.

My friend I know my endeavours or techniques are outside the orthodox.

But even the most basic help I would appreciate.

Either way. Next month I should be gaining a large increase to my monthly sum.
So equipment should no longer be a problem.
Their will be updates and pictures.

No matter how great or small that help. It is appreciated.
My endeavours never gain any recognition until already complete:p. But that's how it always is isn't it :p.
My origanal post is based upon how nature naturally changes her colors.
The latter post well, I see ash as more mineral than vegetable. ;) :). Each to their own subjective reflection ;)

Kiorionis
01-29-2013, 01:43 AM
ON ANOTHER NOTE!

Did you know, that if you mix black ash with water,boil away the water until you have
A "moist" earth with no excess free water.
Mix it around a bit like scrambled eggs.
Then take it to a very very high heat, you will get molten
Ash. :p
the ash becomes red hot as if its burning. But it liquifies because of the water.
The ash is so dry, that it cannot evaporate away.

Ah sweet, thanks for sharing this! it has given me exciting ideas!

I'm also curious if it will work for things besides ash.. like brick dust or the like.

Kiorionis
01-31-2013, 03:15 PM
Also, this might be of interest:
(Taken from John French's Art of Distillation (http://www.levity.com/alchemy/jfren_1.html))


THE TRUE ESSENCE OR RATHER QUINTESSENCE OF ANY HERB IS MADE THUS
When you have made the water and oil of any vegetable first calcine or burn to ashes the remainder of the herb. With the ashes make a lye by pouring its own water thereon. When you have drawn out all the strength of the ashes, then take all the lye, being first filtered, and vapor it away and at the bottom you shall find a black salt which you must take and put into a crucible and melt it in a strong fire (covering the crucible all the time it is melting). After it is melted let it boil half an hour or more. Then take it out and beat it small and set it in a cellar on a marble stone or in a broad glass and it will all be resolved into a liquor. This liquor filter and vapor away the humidity until it be very dry and as white as snow. Then let this salt imbibe as much of the oil of the same vegetable as it can, but no more, lest you labor in vain. Then digest them together until the oil will not rise from the salt, but both become a fixed powder melting with an easy heat.

thrival
02-23-2013, 03:00 PM
How is dry distillation done?


Avaar:

The man who best describes dry distillations IMO is Johann Glauber. He used a specially designed vessel with a very clever seal that could be opened to throw in more matter and yet closed tightly to retain the fumes. Sleuth around till you find diagram of this special pot, which of course you will need to make yourself or have some local potter make for you. You may want several since all clay ware is subject to breakage, especially when subject to high heat.

For heat you might consider charcoal or WVO (waste vegetable oil) with forced air, both can be made hot enough to melt iron. Heat is controlled by regulating amount of air input. Dry distillation is synonymous with smelting.

Salazius
02-23-2013, 03:26 PM
A clay made retort can be useful for such high temperature distillations.
As well as wrapping the pyrex in clay, or using a sand bath.

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03-03-2013, 03:17 PM
Last week I used a metal mesh strainer.
leveled it above a candle.
Far enough above do their would be no burning.
Low enough to catch the hot air current.

I used tobacco from a cig.
Half turned white. The other half took on a reddish color due to oil secretion.
This next week I'm going to try the same process on some dried out leaf.
I am assuming the dried out leaf or grass may lack the oils.
if it works ill post.
If it works, ill then aim to steam distil to remove oils, then dry and moisten repetitively to attain calcination without burning. "Without smoke".

Avatar
03-03-2013, 03:22 PM
More testing will be needed as when done by the sun, all is extracted, the substance is white as ash, yet the water remains clear "translucent".
So I must be able to do the same in a controlled experiment.

It will take custom equipment I am assuming.
The hot air current is the hardest variable to input, seeing as I need to catch all vapor and liquid.

Draconisnova
03-27-2013, 01:32 PM
I confess i never ear about "dry distillation" before is not sublimation you guys meant instead? If so, is easy you need to use two sand glass clock shape flasks, one over the other, place a dry matter on the bottom flask, and increase the temperature by degrees, you can take this till about 500C (my maximum) without crack the glass, of course the glass need to be boro, to sustained the high temperatures, but the most danger is not high temperature is the thermal shock, that can brake the glass imidiatly
So remember the material you intend to sublimate to extract the volatile salts, need to be totally dry, if there is condensation you will explode both flasks, and this can be done with hermetic closed flasks, i have done before.

Other way to extract volatile salts, is done different way:

Totally dry your calcined earth or caput mortum, leave the alembic on the flask wile you dry it, or a glass watch so that nothing volatile escape.

Warm up distilled water or any other liquid you intend to use, so that it will be almost 90C

reduce the fire on your main flask, and let it cool down a little

use a pipette and place drop by drop of the distilled water or liquid on the caput mortum, this need to be done drop by drop or else you will crap the flask due to thermal shock, so is also the reason you harm up the liquid.

After placed a few drops so to almost cover the caput, place imideatly the alembic on the flask, then raise the fire again, the reaction of the liquid on the dry earth will free volatile material, so this need to be done very fast. You may brake the flask the frist time, so you need to be careful and practice a lot before you attempt this technique in an important work.

Kiorionis
03-27-2013, 02:56 PM
Other way to extract volatile salts, is done different way:

Totally dry your calcined earth or caput mortum, leave the alembic on the flask wile you dry it, or a glass watch so that nothing volatile escape.

Warm up distilled water or any other liquid you intend to use, so that it will be almost 90C

reduce the fire on your main flask, and let it cool down a little

use a pipette and place drop by drop of the distilled water or liquid on the caput mortum, this need to be done drop by drop or else you will crap the flask due to thermal shock, so is also the reason you harm up the liquid.

After placed a few drops so to almost cover the caput, place imideatly the alembic on the flask, then raise the fire again, the reaction of the liquid on the dry earth will free volatile material, so this need to be done very fast. You may brake the flask the frist time, so you need to be careful and practice a lot before you attempt this technique in an important work.

very interesting technique, thanks for sharing!
I shall give it a go.