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thrival
02-03-2013, 07:41 AM
Just grazing through the board, I noticed some persons aren't talked about, and curious as to why, so excuse my barging the subject. I'm sure you all know ***'s publications for making the stone from urine and dew salt. (I like the first process for its simplicity and readily-available ingredients; better to have a stone that can be multipled with things easily had from one's own cistern.) As for dew, some say its salt is a federally regulated commodity.

I started the golden water process last year, letting it ferment in plastic jugs for a year before, separating the dregs with repeated cohobations, distillations and filtering, but I just couldn't seem to get the crystals to form. Some residue formed on the flask that just wouldn't wash off, then learned that was Helmont's salt I'd apparently missed capturing; well it should be in the product. Anyway, I added some nitric acid, that seemed to get the crystals forming, the first were sort of cheesey, I tried collecting and drying at low heat in an oven and they just disappeared. I figured it was a failure and was ready to throw the left-over orange colored fluid away but thought heck, why not just leave it alone and see what happens. So it's sitting in an open plastic bowl in my basement which is just above freezing, and more crystals have formed on the surface. I think I'll just let all the moisture evaporate. I'd be afraid to cook them with gold for the obvious risks, but I dipped a finger just to taste the solution, salty initially but sweet later. I had to lie down, I could feel it dredging my liver and other things, I thought wow, there's really something to this alchemy stuff, beyond the mere motions we go through. Anyway I've collected several 5 gal jugs of ammoniated water with a couple cups of the crude salt, waiting for the confidence and insight to know exactly how to proceed. There are several directions a person can go to process the crude salt, I've more carbaloys fermenting just in case I muck up. Has anyone here had any success following ***'s instructions?

Andro
02-03-2013, 11:18 AM
As for dew, some say its salt is a federally regulated commodity.

If you're referring to Ammonium Nitrate (NH4NO3), it can be used as a fertilizer but also for explosives, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's regulated.


I'm sure you all know ***'s publications for making the stone from urine

Are you referring to 'The Mystery of Urine', taken from 'Potpurri Alchemia' in the RAMS collection?

Kiorionis
02-03-2013, 04:47 PM
hi thrival,


(I like the first process for its simplicity and readily-available ingredients; better to have a stone that can be multipled with things easily had from one's own cistern.)

Also interested in knowing what process you're talking about. Are you referring to any of these? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1037-researching-gw-stone-and-alkahest) (link to gw stone and alkahest)



I tried collecting and drying at low heat in an oven and they just disappeared. I figured it was a failure and was ready to throw the left-over orange colored fluid away but thought heck, why not just leave it alone and see what happens. So it's sitting in an open plastic bowl in my basement which is just above freezing, and more crystals have formed on the surface.

I'm curious to know why this happened.. the forming of more crystals part.

Illen A. Cluf
02-03-2013, 04:56 PM
Are you referring to 'The Mystery of Urine', taken from 'Potpurri Alchemia' in the RAMS collection?

Hi Androgynus,
It seems to me that he's talking about N D C's Covenant of Silence document.

Illen

Andro
02-03-2013, 05:54 PM
It seems to me that he's talking about N D C's Covenant of Silence document.

Yes, mostly containing recipes that are basically copy/paste jobs from various authors.
To his credit, in most cases he did mention the actual authors/sources of the published methods.

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Thrival,

Which one of the urine methods (re-published by ***) are you referring to?

What do you consider 'Helmont's Salt' to be?

Also, adding Nitric Acid to assist with the crystal formation sounds interesting... I don't recall this addition being mentioned in the text...

Illen A. Cluf
02-03-2013, 06:02 PM
Yes, mostly containing recipes that are basically copy/paste jobs from various authors.
To his credit, in most cases he did mention the actual authors/sources of the published methods.
.

Most of his more important recipes were taken directly from the RAMS publications. Another was taken directly from Manly Hall's Secret Teachings of All Times.

In my opinion, his recipes were of a chemical or archemical nature, rather than alchemical. Thus he could only have made a vegetable or pseudo Stone at best.

Illen

thrival
02-03-2013, 09:33 PM
Wow, lots to answer.

Yes I was following the "Covenant of Silence" instructions also found in the RAMS Digital Library. I would not accuse him of making a pseudo-stone, not if it does the job. There's more than one stone or one path.

I probably erred in processing, I just never feel I'm doing it right. Basically is a distillation of urine and separation of the ammoniated water from it's crude red salt, the latter calcined/dried at low heat, then cohobated with the distilled portion for a week or two, then repeated distillations; the third time a salt is supposed to form in the distillation tube, but in my case was using nylon pneumatic line as my cooling coil which is opaque. The distillation flask developed a fog etched into the glass, I take this to be Helmon't salt. After the third distillation/cohobation I tried filtering and evaporating to get the skin that's supposed to form, but it wouldn't, so I added some nitric acid. That got crystals started but like I said, small and kind of cheesy. I put the coffee filter holding them in a low temp oven, the filter became a mess and was more or less destroyed, the crystal goo unrecoverable. What was left in the liquid is pale orange, the crystals forming look like surface bubbles in a sense. Something else about mere tasting them, a few images passed through my brain while resting, extremely vivid, beautiful colors, not unlike what I tend to experience taking B-12 before bed. I thought wow, if a brain could work like that all the time, would be pretty awesome.

And this gets me to thinking.

Glauber is very thorough and detailed in the theory behind alchemy, he mentions how the ancients could get their starting material from anything because the subject is in everything, (but some materials are better than others, of course.)

I know some of you guys have been working with salt, repeated heating and dryings. Have you thought of doing that with nitre?

Also, forgetting alchemy for the moment, but dealing with modern nutrition: consider the Krebs cycle, or organic acids found in the body, or mineral deficiencies we are all suffering, whether we know it or not, due to glyco-phosphate (Round-Up) weed-killer, that works by sequestering nutrients in the soil, which affects crops too, while the weeds seem to've found a genetic work-around. I read that crops have 50% less nutrition than 40 years ago, due to modern farming practices. We're all slowly starving to death. Any kind of sex life accelerates nutrient loss, substances made in abundance while young; (I could write a book on that but others already have.)

I believe it was Helmont who disagreed with the philosophers of his day, that there was one universal medicine, but that health could be had by personal, selective diet (since not everyone suffers from the same deficiencies or excesses.) Prof. Arnold Ehret set the record for fasting, advocated a low-phlegm, high mineral salt diet, personally prescribed for every patient. His system follows Hippocrates' work, who I believe Jesus probably had access to (written around 500 B.C) in the Alexandrian library. (Graduating from Hippocrates' school required a 40 day fast.) Now obviously no one goes on a 40 day fast cold-turkey, it takes practice, a knowledge-base, valid theory. So I think this becoming a "son of God" is a process that apart from fasting, entails intelligent diet along with ingesting alchemical substances.

Uh, I guess I wandered from my original subject.

If you have the RAMS library, check out what Glauber has to say on the animal stone.

Seth-Ra
02-03-2013, 10:55 PM
Animal alchemy is my essential forte. It is quite powerful and as has a habit of throwing the artist head-first into things.

That being said, recipes afford nothing other that ideas of how to manifest principles. Following a set-recipe, is akin to a dead ritual. I dont think *** made what he claimed, due to all the BS that followed, and his lack of understanding the Art.
The Word might be True, but the methodology of it, not so for everyone.

Id humbly advise meditation and resonance with the work/matter/Spirit, let it guide you and how you work the lab operations/methodology. Also keep an eye out for destroying influences that will be drawn to it.




~Seth-Ra

Krisztian
02-03-2013, 11:19 PM
One needs sharp senses, rituals can anchor it, continued reliance on meditation as stated wisely [by Seth-Ra], a receptivity to subtle forces, and if one can enter the substance-at-hand and "communicate" then therein you'll find the true next step of the unwritten recipe. If no thing presents itself, then it is best to 'sleep on it' as the saying goes.

The delusions of the mind, it's impulsivity and traumas of the vehicle [physical body], the social programming [which almost all is hypnotically under], and not to mention forces that 'live off' what this work attracts, make for a rather contaminated process. Be wise, so careful. [It's not worth it otherwise.]

thrival
02-04-2013, 01:47 AM
Seth Ra: My trouble is basic ignorance of processes and what they accomplish. I mean I know what the basic processes are, but not what they do to the matter, or why. Of course purification and fixation is the ultimate goal. It occurred the possibility that fermenting in plastic might add hydrocarbons that wouldn't be present had I used glass, filling holes that should have been filled with something else, thereby preventing the desired crystals from forming. I find reading recipes tedious and am a bit impatient that way, looking for the most simple, even if I have to wait for results, unless there's a short-cut! "Breaking rules" is for people who already know what they're doing, I don't make that claim yet.

*** struck me as a bit young, and full of himself, and sometimes focused upon superficials, but that's true of many artists and a stage we all go through. On the other hand his photographic journal shows he does the work and gets real results, whether is as he claims, I don't know enough to judge.

Krisztian: To be honest, I don't do ritual, but I'm very open to higher influences, that have shown themselves more than once in my life, following spontaneous and sincere prayer. As for "sleeping on it" that's a part of my illness and something I've been doing for longer than I'd like. The challenge for me is the very real need to wake up and perform effectively, not (as if) under the influence of drugs.

What's happening in our culture, and the economy, is rather scary, but I'm not part of that. It's been over a year since I've turned on a TV!

Kiorionis: Thank you for the links!

thrival
02-04-2013, 02:07 AM
What do you consider 'Helmont's Salt' to be?

Fact that it etches glass-- ammonium silicate?


Also, adding Nitric Acid to assist with the crystal formation sounds interesting... I don't recall this addition being mentioned in the text...

Well obviously it's not, I'd have tried nitre but that would contaminate with the potassium salt, which still might work. But now I've got something that could be very unsafe to mix with gold under heat and confined spaces, ...or not.

Krisztian
02-04-2013, 02:17 AM
*** struck me as a bit young, and full of himself, and sometimes focused upon superficials, but that's true of many artists and a stage we all go through. On the other hand his photographic journal shows he does the work and gets real results, whether is as he claims, I don't know enough to judge.

When one is close [viz., making of the Lapis], and becomes consumed by the power and other, sometimes, indirect manifestations involving the process, we know historically [in the alchemy literature], that for lack of a better term things go very badly! If one can 'turn away' from corruption of the soul, then one is given a second chance. If not, then the guardians on the Other Side say: No!

thoth
02-05-2013, 12:11 AM
Thrival you might be interested in this thread :
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1037-researching-gw-stone-and-alkahest

When you say the glass was etched, was it a geometric pattern. Do you have any photos ?

You might want to try distillling up to one gallon or more, doing one litre at a time, and then pouring another litre on top of salts remaining etc.
Glass alembics very useful for lower temp distills, effectively sweating off the clear liquid, rather than boiling. It takes longer but you don't need running water. Yes I wouldn't throw away the black salts too quickly.

thrival
02-06-2013, 05:02 PM
I need to clarify some things.

First when speaking of Helmont's salt, I mispoke, I meant van Holland. This from reading "Real Alchemy" by Robert Bartlett who described Holland's alkahest, made by repetitions distillations of golden water. Maybe etch wasn't the right word, "fog" would be more accurate, the stuff just won't wash off. I tried soap, sand, brushes, nothing removes it. Initially I thought it was waste, and had contacted lab suppliers about cleaners, until I found the salient reference that the salt was the alkahest. At sufficient strength it ostensibly dissolves gold. I haven't got that far yet, the salt should be in the distilate. I think anything that can permanently fog glass is probably a silicate. That would also explain how the stone joined to gold forms a glassy material, but maybe my reasoning is too simple?

About my first golden water experiment, I distilled two gallons of fermented, digested, thrice distilled and filtered gw over its dried (but not calcined) salt, down to about 3 cups and still unable to get crystals to form, so I added the solution back again and about a cup of nitric acid to each gallon jug. Distilled again, this time there were small crystals but nothing to write home about. The first ones were cheesy and gooped the filter, unrecoverable upon heating. Now that the volume is down to two cups, there are small crystals floating on top with the bubbles, probably nitrates. The solution is very strong and powerful; salty, mildly bitter, then sweet and warming. One drop on my tongue every two days is the most I can tolerate. It's amazingly penetrative in homeopathic dosage. It finds the liver and stomach first.

OK moving on, my second gw experiment, this one from Cosmic Awareness. The procedure is simply fill and digest urine for a week or two with the cover open, in a glass jar (not plastic.) Then close the cover and keep warm for a year. Mine is going on 14 months. The golden color has turned to burgundy and there's a silver-gray precipitate on the bottom, that looks golden-red due to reflected light. The precipitate is supposed to be the stone. It's such a small amount, maybe a heaping tbsp, I'm thinking to add it to another jug of fermenting urine; it's supposed to act as a magnet and cause additional batches to precipitate faster. Once a person has enough of this salt to work with, they can begin using it for experiments, on themselves and metals. Note: I had a few accidents, a fuse blew and the jug got cold once, also (I feared) too hot a few times, but it seems not to have affected the end product in appearance at least, which was predicted.
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Broken Links to Sites & Images removed

Crowned Lion 6&4
04-01-2013, 05:55 AM
That precipitant isnt the stone in my experience its a silica silicon type sulfur... I used to eat it cuz i thought it was the stone but its not soluble nor any good effects from it.

Crowned Lion 6&4
04-01-2013, 06:09 AM
I dont really know where to put this post, sorry if its out of place.. I performed a simple GW experiment that was in the rams digital potpouri section. The one that has you urinate in a clay hole after a shower storm. I just did it in a clean potting planter made of clay. Now ninety nine times out of a hundred it did not work. But this one time this one time something amazing happened. Simple enough to Urinate in a clay pot and wait lol most times it made a brown reddish powder sometimes it made nothing completely sometimes a harsh salt like saltpeter?maybe? but this one time it made a beautiful salt that shined like the moon itself:) I tasted it and it was penetrating like it was about to taste salty but it was like sugar, I took a bit on my finger put it directly in the sun and it turned to water. I ate all of it because of the great feeling it gave me, like almost being a kid again? something like that lol the season was in spring or summer. now in rams it says to put on distilled rain water evaporate, place in a bowl bury in the earth and it will be a whey like water that will dissolve gold, then digesting with a heating pad will make it run through the proper colors. my theory would be if I ever attained this salt again to evaporate it with rain water and then place it in the sun, then dissolve gold leaf and digest. Has anyone had experience with a salt like this?

thrival
04-04-2013, 01:49 AM
Hi Crowned Lion;

Is interesting, your experiment, and the salt you describe.

I'm sure have many others are investigating what this salt described in RAMS might be. We can assume it's ammoniated given it's tendency to sublime/dissappear. It would be nice to determine from an archemy perspective. In researching rain & dew salt(s), Barlett said ammonium nitrate is the primary salt, but the atmosphere (and soil) is also full of carbonic acid. Global warming believers say the atmospheric carbonic acid in rain is acidifying the ocean. I have a lot of ammonia water left over from extracting the resinous crude salt of urine, it would be a simple thing to mix with those other two chemicals and distill to see what comes over, or saturate clay, or pour into a porous clay garden pot and see what grows.

Why do you want to dissolve gold? Do you plan to eat it or make a stone per _N_D_C_'s recipes? Be careful using ammoniated salts with gold as it could all fly away!

theFool
04-04-2013, 05:05 AM
Has anyone had experience with a salt like this?
I have been trying a 'recipe' found in Ormus forums:

OIl of Urine

Collect Morning urine for about 5 days.
Distill off 2/3rds

Let remaining 1/3 ferment for 40 days
Add 50% of HCL and H202 to 'neutralise' solution
Add only enough acid to bring to neutral ph
Let stand until oil come to surface
Pour off in seprating funnel
Place funnel in hot water and shake to help settle the oil
Wash oil in hot water to get a 'red oil'

This is the oil of urine....
[..]
Kindly

Simon
Sometimes it works, sometimes no. Instead of giving the floating oil, it gives a white salt as precipitate. Until now I haven't focused on the properties of this salt, but it looks very similar to what you describe and thrival has photographed. Anyway, I hope the 'recipe' may give you some extra ideas to experiment.

solomon levi
04-04-2013, 05:10 AM
An interesting salt from urine is the microcosmic salt.
It's hard to say what you have as there are so many salts in urine.
I posted once the different conditions which affect which salt is emphasized but don't remember.
I'm sure it's in that thread I started on the urine path and alcahest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcosmic_salt

Crowned Lion 6&4
04-04-2013, 05:50 AM
Thrival: Ya I wanted to dissolve gold to make the philosophers stone for the great medicine lies in the seed of gold, I believe it was written in ***'s book but it is actually from the Rams library. Im pretty sure the salt was the alkahest, though it was a sugar tasting salt. which is what Alchemists say salt tastes like after purified over and over again. If you want to try just urinate in a clay pot but moisten it with rain or dew before you place the GW in it. Most times I got a harsh salt and a brown red powder but if you ever see a perfectly squared shape salts that taste sweet. keep these and place in a flask place then you can increase its strength by pouring it with dew or rain from a thunderstorm evaporate it off then place and seal in a clean flask place it in the earth until it turns to water(bury it in the actual earth lol) Or place it in the sun I found it turns it to water instantly with this you should be able to dissolve gold and digest it through black white and red colors. When evaporating the dew or rain make sure to filter out debris that falls to the bottom. This is the recipe in rams, not sure which folder its from Maybe in poupori section.
Solomon: Yes I think this was a microcosmic salt, the one which all Alchemist try to obtain whether it be from plants, rain, dew, Urine or Sea salt. Ive read once they are purified they are all the same and are good for the work.

thrival
04-05-2013, 02:32 AM
Crowned Lion:

OK, I understand. Solomon posted in a separate gw thread the recipes by Hollandus for purifying urine salt that does extract the oil of gold, but you can also extract the ens of gold from colored sand and/or red clay using HCl according to Glauber. And there are other stones that don't use gold (cost less to make), which Seth-Ra so aptly demonstrated! I forgot to mention that apart from your gold going "up in smoke" (using ammoniated salts) it can also fulminate (explode) with far more power than gun-powder so do be careful.

Yes there are many salts in urine and that's why I like to look them all up on wiki to learn about their crystallization shapes, melting temperatures, etc.


Thrival: Ya I wanted to dissolve gold to make the philosophers stone for the great medicine lies in the seed of gold, I believe it was written in ***'s book but it is actually from the Rams library. Im pretty sure the salt was the alkahest, though it was a sugar tasting salt. which is what Alchemists say salt tastes like after purified over and over again. If you want to try...

Crowned Lion 6&4
04-05-2013, 04:51 AM
Ohh yes yes you are right the stone does not have to be from gold, like holland's urine stone is just the coput salt purified and the spirit cohobated till they are one:) ANd YA YA!! I read that once how to extract the gold from sand that's just awesome lol free gold to the wise ones lol. Well I didnt know the seed of gold was so combustible I will be more careful when I have it again thank you for the warning. I should say though my gold didn't go up in smoke but nevertheless I will be careful. As to looking up the salts on wiki im not sure they have it on there. Like if I sent that sweet salt that I had to a lab im sure they could identify certain substances but there will always be an etheric astral substance that science cannot measure nor Identify, for science cannot see our souls but they are there just staring through a hose sprayed in a mist at sundown you can see your soul(aura) a three ringed rainbow as for the deeper complexities im sure you would have to stare at the moon and blue sky until the eyes get used to seeing the Astral fire.