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Awani
02-20-2013, 11:12 AM
This argument requries a little generalization, but please let's not split hairs.

If reincarnation is true and if the path to nirvana is compassion/love then women in general seem more comfortable and close to this. They are comfortable with love, with tears and compassion. Are they perhaps last-timers?

And men who are 'feminine' are perhaps soon women, soon last-timers etc...

:cool:

glenerson
02-20-2013, 06:27 PM
path to nirvana is to destroy suffering. this is what the first Buddha told us. material world is suffering and women are inherently with suffering or agents of suffering (childbirth= pain and promotes creation of additional matter or more suffering).

one way for them to achieve nirvana is to be reborn as males after they abandon child bearing (died single or never had a child).

and from being males, they can achieve nirvana.

yes, only males can achieved nirvana.

Nothing wrong with this because females are not totally barred. they just need to do something (to be literally free from suffering), be reborn as males.

Yes, souls' gender is genderless imo (is not male nor female.) and it just rides on the gender of the material body without assuming the actual gender of material body.

There's a reason why males are males and females are females.

Ilos
02-20-2013, 06:54 PM
Hey Dev,
I used to have this weird thought sometimes like, our soul will incarnate here on earth like 3 or maybe more times to experience different feelings.
Example:
Say in your first life you were very poor, you had to face with tough vicissitudes of life.
Your second life, was the middle class, normal life that probably had to do with the stability of emotions and equilibrium.
Third life was the rich one that you probably can describe it with lust compassion and a fast heart beating stressful excitement.

The forth, you are the complete spiritual vessel ready to do good or bad to this world, now this world is in your hands, it depends on you, you are its light or destruction, natures constructor and it will all depend on our choice
on which part of life we want to return again: first, second, third?

Andro
02-20-2013, 08:35 PM
I'll 'Plead the 5th' on this one.

Some things are better left unspoken, but rather directly and individually discovered, beyond mere opinion.
Yes, there is a 'system' (of sorts) in place here, and there are certain conditions to be met by so-called 'Last Timers'/'Final Incarnations'.
Those who know these things directly, would simply not rationalize and/or debate them, least of all the 'Last Timers' themselves (I'd say...)

Awani
02-20-2013, 09:11 PM
yes, only males can...

I don't know what is true, but whatever it is I strongly disagree with the above. For me suffering is equal both genders and childbirth is a suffering most women want. I don't see it as part of the sufferings of life. If so taking a big dump is suffering...

That only men can achieve nirvana is ridicilous to me.

I might add that when I speak of reincarnation it has nothing to do with Buddha/Buddism. That is just a human invention like all religions. Just BS. If reincarnation is true then it existed millions of years before any religion was formed.

:cool:

Seth-Ra
02-20-2013, 09:17 PM
I'll 'Plead the 5th' on this one.

Some things are better left unspoken, but rather directly and individually discovered, beyond mere opinion.
Yes, there is a 'system' (of sorts) in place here, and there are certain conditions to be met by so-called 'Last Timers'/'Final Incarnations'.
Those who know these things directly, would simply not rationalize and/or debate them, least of all the 'Last Timers' themselves (I'd say...)

We are of like-mind on that note.

Sacred silence...



~Seth-Ra

Awani
02-20-2013, 09:20 PM
Saying you shall not speak is speaking so you both failed. LOL.

:cool:

Andro
02-20-2013, 09:38 PM
Being a so-called 'Last Timer' (Monroe term), does not equal passage to so-called 'Nirvana'.

From a relatively linear perspective, upon experiencing everything that's needed from this physical plane and achieving the so-called 'Escape Velocity' (another Monroe term), 'The Game' simply goes on/continues on other levels/planes of 'Reality'. No rest for the wicked :)

Also, just like suffering is not especially attuned to the female gender, neither is love/compassion. We should not confuse the feelings with the ways they are expressed, just as we should not confuse Form with Principle.

We should also not confuse tears (or the lack thereof) with our own interpretations/rationalizations of them.

And yes, like Glenerson said, genderization is only an attribute of the physical bodies. But most people would have to wait and see until their time here is up, if not 'longer'...

Andro
02-20-2013, 09:42 PM
I shall not speak on equating the female gender with 'Last Timers' (the proposed main topic).

But other related/tangential stuff, like what I wrote above - yes.

Hope I'm clearer now. Unless more psycho-semantical hairsplitting is deemed necessary :)

All in good spirits :cool:

Seth-Ra
02-20-2013, 10:18 PM
Saying you shall not speak is speaking so you both failed. LOL.

:cool:

As the Grand Jester, I made you "LOL" and thus, did not fail. :cool:

The most I will say, is that both males and females are "last timers" - for it is a matter of soul, more than physical gender. All things balance, even in the worlds to come, so it matters not where you are from, or where you are going, so long as you are. ;)





~Seth-Ra

glenerson
02-21-2013, 02:27 AM
I don't know what is true, but whatever it is I strongly disagree with the above. For me suffering is equal both genders and childbirth is a suffering most women want. I don't see it as part of the sufferings of life. If so taking a big dump is suffering...

That only men can achieve nirvana is ridicilous to me.

I might add that when I speak of reincarnation it has nothing to do with Buddha/Buddism. That is just a human invention like all religions. Just BS. If reincarnation is true then it existed millions of years before any religion was formed.

:cool:

Call it a syncretic Buddho-Christian view.

Genesis 3:16

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

Woman is cursed with childbearing.

Genesis 3:17-19

17 And to the man[b] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten of the tree
about which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

Man will work for his food and die.

For what man suffer is also the suffering of the woman. But one thing that sets them apart - child birth. Realistically, child birth is painful. And symbolically, it is the greatest pain that God can attribute, and He attributed it only to the woman. And in line with Buddhism, creation is multiplication of matter, which is source of pain and producing new matter by woman is painful by itself.

Why man is the favored gender? For man was first created and woman came from its rib.

So the path to enlightenment(nirvana) is reverse of creation.

Woman (last creation) will return to Man and Man shall traverse all other Gods creations back to the Light and then to Darkness.

Reincarnation of the soul is pretty much the realization of man. It exists in the oldest religion in existence. and this religion is way older than than the concepts postulated by alchemists.

But reincarnation is not alien to matter. Think of it as E=mc2. matter transformed to energy will at some point go back to being matter again, vise versa.

Woman may be the lesser gender but they are the vessels for males too. Just like the emerald tablet says, "gold as father and silver as mother", for from mother arises the father, for from silver (solid/liquid) arises gold.

But see, if ideally women abandon childbearing, samsara will come into halt and destroy itself. For no material vessels will be created for the soul. And if the material world is destroyed, souls will technically be liberated.

Andro
02-23-2013, 05:34 PM
On a lighter note:

IF incarnations here were linear/sequential, then, by next month (in China), everyone would have a much better chance of being a 'Last Timer' :):

China Bans Reincarnation Without Government Permission (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/08/22/china-bans-reincarnation-_n_61444.html)

Awani
02-23-2013, 06:07 PM
Call it a syncretic Buddho-Christian view.

Genesis 3:16

16 To the woman he said,

“I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children,
yet your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”

Woman is cursed with childbearing.

Genesis 3:17-19

17 And to the man[b] he said,

“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten of the tree
about which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”

Man will work for his food and die.

For what man suffer is also the suffering of the woman. But one thing that sets them apart - child birth. Realistically, child birth is painful. And symbolically, it is the greatest pain that God can attribute, and He attributed it only to the woman. And in line with Buddhism, creation is multiplication of matter, which is source of pain and producing new matter by woman is painful by itself.

Why man is the favored gender? For man was first created and woman came from its rib.

So the path to enlightenment(nirvana) is reverse of creation.

Woman (last creation) will return to Man and Man shall traverse all other Gods creations back to the Light and then to Darkness.

Reincarnation of the soul is pretty much the realization of man. It exists in the oldest religion in existence. and this religion is way older than than the concepts postulated by alchemists.

But reincarnation is not alien to matter. Think of it as E=mc2. matter transformed to energy will at some point go back to being matter again, vise versa.

Woman may be the lesser gender but they are the vessels for males too. Just like the emerald tablet says, "gold as father and silver as mother", for from mother arises the father, for from silver (solid/liquid) arises gold.

But see, if ideally women abandon childbearing, samsara will come into halt and destroy itself. For no material vessels will be created for the soul. And if the material world is destroyed, souls will technically be liberated.

Sorry, can't comment unless I dive into a religious debate which I am no longer interested in. The Bible, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed Ali and Donald Duck just don't do it for me. Especially not as something to back up a statement.

Women are NOT lesser anything IMO.

:cool:

glenerson
02-23-2013, 06:27 PM
Jesus, Bible and Buddha for me.

And Prolly Mohammed Ali and Donald Duck will do it for you. You haven't tried it.

Awani
02-23-2013, 07:14 PM
What?

:cool:

glenerson
02-23-2013, 08:49 PM
you attempt to discuss a (religious) concept of reincarnation and women. and i presented you the other religious concepts that are associated with it. and you berate me by equating jesus/buddha/bible to muhammad ali and donald duck? wtf dude. that was classy.

Awani
02-23-2013, 09:56 PM
You see reincarnation as a religious concept... I don't. For me Jesus is like Donald Duck... a man-made invention. Even if some of the things Jesus said might be good it doesn't mean it is a fact, just his opinion (be it an invented one or a real one). I just meant I can't argue with arguments based only on Biblical quotations as they carry, for me, no weight.

:cool:

Ilos
02-27-2013, 06:48 PM
Hey again,
In a way I think that still it doesn't matter in which vessel you will be incarnated; male, female, animal, insect.
If you were an animal before and now your a human being that means that your consciousness has evolved and moved to a higher step of your consciousness integral parts
If you were male and now your a female, your consciousness faced the same life attributes no reason to be a last timer
True you can think this way only if you believe that our spirit evolves, also this has to be true, we can feel it everyday, our consciousness does evolve every minute and death wont stop it.