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solomon levi
03-04-2013, 02:50 PM
Was just reading facebook and someone commented on emotions being annoying sometimes, to which someone commented back that if you find someone who doesn't have emotions you'll be in the most boring relationship ever.

At first I wanted to argue that, but he's pretty much correct. It hits me personally, as I have overcome many emotions and I can't argue that most the people I meet find me boring. I'm not attached to any views - people who are attached are passionate. Opinionated = interesting in our society. I'm only passionate about spirit so it really narrows down my ability to conversate. Most everyone talks about themselves - I don't. But I love to listen. Most people believe in this or that - I don't. For someone in the here and now, there isn't a whole lot of variation, color, emotion. "What'd you do today?" "Chop wood, carry water." I have all kinds of "interior radicalness" going on, but it's not the kind of thing you talk about to the innocent unless they give you that window. Anyway, I am boring. I'm also very peaceful. I don't have drama in my life, but then I lack in "personality". I see so much homogeneity that it's hard for me to pick one thing as if it's worth talking about,
let alone being excited about it.
I well remember when I was younger and had a personality and ego... I was entertaining, popular, funny... but it was all borrowed from someone else - some movie, some song or video, something I heard someone say... after seeing how fake I and my friends were, I just walked away from it and started a new life, my "spiritual" life. After some 20 years of spiritual training and meditation, breath work, reading, I had my own enlightenment experiences, "cosmic consciousness", seeing "god" face to face... and this only made me even more unrelatable, less subjective, less personal/individual...

a-ha! I had a question in all this that I hadn't quite phrased, but I just got the answer. So thank you. Yes, I do like to hear myself talk. I'm the best listener I know. :)

Feel free to add two pence if you relate or have comments/observations.
Do you feel socially awkward due to "spiritual" progress?
Are these necessarily mutual in your opinion?

For me, it's a residue of my dualism. I still have beliefs about being fake and being real, being present and being absent, being conscious and being on automatic, etc.

Ilos
03-04-2013, 04:53 PM
Hey Sol,

It was a faze when I started doubting myself of being boring in the eyes of others for having stiffed emotions
Its like sometimes my mind is focused in my inner mind where I find the enjoyment of myself or my imagination and its not for others to share
I like to be an outgoing person but Its just not that simple to just be satisfied with things that most people are impressed and Im not
It is understood to be considered different from most of the people I just consider myself as an alternative person with a variation of different mixed feelings
This also meant that I used to get bored quickly of almost everything, I couldn't find myself in life until I found about Alchemy and yes it took me awhile
So unemotional = bored? Yes that's probably true, as long as its not prejudged or understood with specific principles of the human consciousness
:)

solomon levi
03-05-2013, 02:39 AM
Yeah, I agree Ilos.
Also, I distinguish between emotions and feelings... while i may not react emotionally to much,
I feel more deeply than ever. But these feelings are not as easy to put into words, so more
difficult to share... they often are cause to be silent, as they are sooo large, incapacitating my tongue.

It's just something I'm trying to figure out, as i work at a club and go to lots of parties... I don't
want to be the awkward silent witness... I'm going to have to apply more Castaneda stalking techniques...
act a fool, forget myself sometimes... remember/evoke a social position... if anything, just to prove to
myself that I can. Like I always say, I don't like to exclude anything. In all this, I've excluded a large
part of my social being, and thus a large part of humanity. As Castaneda said, (paraphrase) a warrior does
not just perfect the nagual - he seeks impeccability in the nagual (extra-ordinary states) when he is nagual and
the tonal (ordinary/social world) when he is tonal. :)

Seth-Ra
03-05-2013, 03:28 AM
SL,

Tis a good observation, one that has hit me since I was a child and only increased over time. Things have changed in my social life, but Id have to say it is due to "stalking" techniques: understanding how the people are, and adapting a certain persona to be able to relate and act as one of them. I had an experience in the Army where some bay-mates of mine were high and playing techno and swinging glow sticks. I was the only sober one, but was able to "forget myself" and party with them all the same, while maintaining myself also. To be dual and one all at once. (one of the most extreme examples, but plenty in day-to-day life itself.)
We become extremely "boring" and eternally "interesting" at the same time. ;)



~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
03-05-2013, 04:14 AM
yes, exactly Seth.
and magnetism always holds true imo. i've met a lot, relatively, of people who i consider to be without pretense, and many who are somewhat aware of spirit/energy... it's just younger crowd, mostly college kids in their 20s. A lot of them like or love me, probably not exactly knowing why :) a couple days ago i was hangin with this girl who confided in me, things she asked me not to repeat to anyone... 'anyone' being her friends that 'should be' closer than i am. :D
it's nice to know that people pick up on my unconditional love. this is another aspect of healing i engage in... for someone to feel safe enough to unburden themselves of secrets that they feel others would judge, and/or they judge themselves... i am honored. this is part of being a 'sin-eater'. 'come to me, you who are heavy-burdened...' listening is a big thing, but i also consciously transmute things, as i mention in the crucible thread.
thanks for relating. it's nice to hear how others perceive and act on this item. :)

solomon levi
03-05-2013, 04:28 AM
oh, yes, to me, what is more interesting than spirit, our relation to infinity, energy and the whole!
i guess i'll include another somewhat related observation... i do still meet way too many people who are suspicious of love. love, to many, means you want something. i love so quickly and deeply, personally and impersonally at once, for i see myself and god in each person. it's the hardest thing to restrain my heart in order not to scare people. so many afraid of what they secretly crave the most. sigh.

horticult
03-05-2013, 05:24 PM
Romans 12:15-16

Seth-Ra
03-06-2013, 03:53 AM
yes, exactly Seth.
and magnetism always holds true imo. i've met a lot, relatively, of people who i consider to be without pretense, and many who are somewhat aware of spirit/energy... it's just younger crowd, mostly college kids in their 20s. A lot of them like or love me, probably not exactly knowing why :) a couple days ago i was hangin with this girl who confided in me, things she asked me not to repeat to anyone... 'anyone' being her friends that 'should be' closer than i am. :D
it's nice to know that people pick up on my unconditional love. this is another aspect of healing i engage in... for someone to feel safe enough to unburden themselves of secrets that they feel others would judge, and/or they judge themselves... i am honored. this is part of being a 'sin-eater'. 'come to me, you who are heavy-burdened...' listening is a big thing, but i also consciously transmute things, as i mention in the crucible thread.
thanks for relating. it's nice to hear how others perceive and act on this item. :)

Yes, the magnetism law/agreement does indeed hold true. I noticed that also, often it surprises me in its frequency. Same also goes for what you posted after the above-quoted, about people sensing the Love and confiding/talking to you. I noticed this intensely when i was in Basic, everyone, from the populars, to the outcast, the jocks, to the geeks, everyone would come and talk to me. I was like the non-chaplain chaplain. lol
Indeed, so many scared of their own hearts. :(



~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
03-07-2013, 12:29 PM
this about sums it up for me:
https://fbcdn-photos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/598879_277996102332693_1493702852_n.jpg?dl=1

zoas23
03-09-2013, 03:26 PM
Feel free to add two pence if you relate or have comments/observations.
Do you feel socially awkward due to "spiritual" progress?
Are these necessarily mutual in your opinion?

I've had the opposite experience all over the years.
I became MORE emotional, rather than less emotional.

Something else I've learnt, which is quite hard, is not to look down on people, not to underestimate anyone... not to feel that other people is "less evolved", "less spiritual"... and never placing myself or anyone else on a pedestal. I've learnt not to ever use the ideas of "us" and "them" (no "us" and "them" when it comes to sexes, religions, races, spiritual paths, nationalities, spiritual evolution... nothing.... I simply use the "us" for everything and when someone talks to me about "them", I always ask "who are them?".... and then I add "we are them").

Being in touch with a lot of people who is into different esoteric spiritual paths, I often hear about this "us" and "them".... and I always try to let them see that there's no "us" and "them". Is this related to emotions? I think it is.

Because of my own spiritual path I've learnt to be more emotional, to open the door of my house to strangers quite often (I've hosted many persons all over these years, specially artists).... to be by far less prejudiced, specially when it comes to talking to anyone without having the previous idea that this person won't understand me because I am "more special" or "evolved".

I am getting used to your way of thinking, Solomon. What I wanted to say is that becoming socially awkward is not an achievement, but actually a problem. And I think you are perceiving it as something you have accomplished and makes you feel even a little bit proud.

Empathy with other people doesn't involve talking about TV shows or having trivial conversations. Most people have something interesting to say if you give them the chance.

solomon levi
03-09-2013, 11:40 PM
Hi Zoas23. Did you catch this part?

"Also, I distinguish between emotions and feelings... while i may not react emotionally to much,
I feel more deeply than ever. But these feelings are not as easy to put into words, so more
difficult to share... they often are cause to be silent, as they are sooo large, incapacitating my tongue."

This is just to distinguish... for me, looking at a sunrise often produces a wonderful feeling. I wouldn't
call that an emotion. Emotions, for me, simply subjectively for the sake of distinguishing, are reactive,
automatic, programmed/learned. Feelings are more inherent.
According to those definitions, are you more emotional?
Ah, emotions are related to thinking. We can think a thought and obsess on it til it becomes emotional.
For example, "she betrayed me." But feelings don't have thoughts accompanying them... sure, we say
"that sunrise is beautiful". But that happens after we've felt the silent awe and words/thoughts creep in
again. Often people aren't perceptive enough to catch the silence, or maybe they're not quiet enough
or don't know how to pause or slow down and emphasize spaces. ?? I don't know. Anyway, there's a
difference. Maybe I can't describe it well enough.

Personally, I'd say it is an accomplishment. That doesn't mean it's good or sought after as ideal. But it can
be a phase. I used to be proud of it or think myself better. That too is a necessary stage. As in alchemy,
there is male, there is female and then there is androgyne/union. So in life there is, for example, ignorance,
there is knowledge (necessary to define ignorance which was necessary to define knowledge) and then there
is the union, the "no us and them" as you say. So I thought I was already clear that I think this a problem
that I am giving awareness to and trying to reconcile - no pride or judgement on my behalf. I see a difference,
and I see no difference. Seeing a difference/discrimination isn't the same as judgement in my book. You can
call a spade a spade without having judgement, without thinking or feeling it should not be a spade... that's
judgement in my book - the non-acceptance. It is not a judgement for me to notice degrees of awareness
when they exist... I am very careful not to project, to be as objective as I can.
I'm not sure why you made the comment on empathy. Did I say empathy involves TV shows and trivial conversations?
I'm not not giving people chances. I'm saying I am socially awkward. I don't prevent anyone from speaking to me.
I welcome it. Anyway, I'm not sure we're on the same page here. Are you so sure you know my way of thinking?
You don't appear to to me, and I am the final word... that is, it is up to me to tell you when you understand me,
not for you to say when you understand me. I give that same respect to you. You know you better than me. I do not
presume to know you better than you know yourself. I only know you through me. So listening to you and not my
commentary or interpretation is vital. I don't feel like you heard me very well. It sounds like you are talking to who
you were before you learned to not see us and them.

zoas23
03-10-2013, 04:18 PM
OK.... sorry. The internet is a terrible place to talk about personal things! The message often arrives twisted or distorted!

Yes, I am more emotional.
And, no... I don't think emotions make us robots, nor I think they are always "learned".
Yes, there are horrible emotions (anger, frustrations, envy, etc). I certainly don't like them... I personally don't go through them... but I do have "reactive emotions" sometimes, specially when there is violence involved.
Specially when I see a man being violent with a woman... or a person being violent with an animal.

I have my own problems too. I have a hard time in having intense friendships with males and with women is way easier for me (I do get along easier with females than with males, who I often find "boring" actually, but I do my best to avoind my own prejudices). That's a problem, not an achievement.
To be socially akward is a problem too, not an achievement.

Yes, the sunrise is fantastic... but you were also talking about how you relate with other people, not just with the sunrise, the stars, etc.

solomon levi
03-11-2013, 11:21 PM
well, what the point or hinge is for me has to do with thinking. for me thinking is the significant difference between emotions and feelings... and is the same for sunrise or people. observing my thinking, and not believing or identifying with it, makes me relatively boring. when i meet people, i just feel acceptance, sameness... this is a human being, just like me and everyone else... that's oneness in a sense, a shadow of it. being interesting and having personality is about variation, uniqueness, details... microscoping. i just need to make a conscious effort to do that after deprogramming myself from it. that's what i tried to relate. after the black phase one is like compost...
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.* You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile."*~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter*17

solomon levi
03-12-2013, 01:50 AM
Then in green phase, there's so much going on... like the abundance of plant growth in a jungle.
And trying to talk about any one thing apart from the rest, as if it is unique, is difficult...
like asking Nature to choose Her favorite plant - She loves them all.
If that makes sense, you can see how this is part accomplishment or indication of evolution.
When awareness opens up to include more of life, there is a saturation which takes place
which makes it difficult to speak, difficult to single out "this, not that".
Whereas as youth is still in a phase of defining their personality, proud of their beliefs...
their views are important, unique... their music is the coolest music... etc.
It is an accomplishment to build that and then transcend it.
The black phase is a great accomplishment in alchemy.
But accomplishment just means it is accomplished. It doesn't mean you're special or better - I don't mean that.
But I am different than one who hasn't accomplished it, in the same way that putrefaction is different than the raw matter.
Talking to/with me is all about definitions, and I don't care much for the dictionary.
I think different words exist for a reason... we shouldn't confuse emotions and feeling, or discernment and judgement.
If they were the same, there wouldn't be two words for them. If society does not supply adequate distinction, I will. :)
Of course, no one will know what I mean unless we actually take the time to talk like this - there definitions will be different
than mine. So my distinctions aren't necessarily true... definitely not objective... just useful.
Every system developes their own language. Since i am my own authority, I develope my own language.
This doesn't mean I resist anyone else's. I do my best to place myself in others' worlds, views, languages... cause I like relating.
But the majority of people still assume every speak the same language and has the same meanings just because they're speaking english.
Most people don't define themselves well, not yet realising there is a need for it - that each person speaks a subjective language.
I define myself pretty well. Don't mistake that for me thinking I am right or better or true. I'm just me.
I talk alot, have a ton of posts, etc. But I love communication. My spiritual experiences have shown me a universe composed of
agreements/communication... that there are no things - there are relationships... nothing exists independent of anything else.
Seeing this, I communicate. The success of communication is based on alignment/resonance/agreement... what was termed in the
old school "love and strife", harmony and dissonance. The more info we give eachother, the better the chances of resonance.
But there is never a chance for objective, whole communication through words... when information is whole, there is no space left
for dualism, separation, observation, words... you can BE it, but you can't speak it. Being is 1. Speaking is 2. 2 cannot comprehend 1.
Words cannot adequately describe wholeness. Thus God, the One, the Whole, the Objective, is Ineffable. It's not a sin to say God's real name...
it's just inaccurate to believe there is one. There is also no image of God. This is what the 10 commandments really say... all names of God
are in vain; all images are false. But that relates to God as the unconditioned. For me, God is unconditioned and conditioned... excluding
nothing, which includes excluding something. :) God is paradox, just as existence is. Thus I can say "All is Justice/Balance/Perfection/Providence",
and someone else will say, "No, it's not. War isn't perfect. Murder isn't just. etc.." And we will both be subjectively correct. There is nothing one
can say that is objectively correct for everyone, and that includes this sentence. :) Communication is an art which begins with realising that all is true.
Something only becomes untrue relative to something else. But these comparisons are arbitrary and subjective.

Lunsola
03-25-2013, 08:35 PM
I can relate to this a lot. I spent years trying to eliminate emotions and eventually for the most part succeeded. I don't feel nearly as much these days. Life just becomes different afterwards. I have tried to reverse the process a few times to no avail just out of curiosity. I'm not really sure it's worse or better but I may not have been drawn to alchemy without it. Probably one of the best benefits would be the ability to enter a zen like state more easily. Things just don't bother me as much either.

solomon levi
03-26-2013, 02:35 AM
yeah, for a while i saw it as a point of no return, but recently i realised i could go back if i wanted to, as controlled folly, or art. i couldn't believe in it like i once did, but i could wear the hat. i just don't have motive. that's one of the things we learn in this new position... to act without motive, w/o the immediate self-gratification that egos need, even acting for no reason...

solomon levi
03-26-2013, 10:03 AM
oh, i went out tonight and i saw that people who are afraid of love don't trust themselves. that was a weight off my shoulders. it's funny cuz i didn't meet anyone like that tonight. i feel i was seeing a future encounter.
oh, i was significantly less boring tonight, but no more emotional. my mask is not as stiff... breaking it in. :)
if that sounds fake... my mask is the same material as everyone else's. just as the whole divided is still whole, so is the real fake still real.

"everyone knows i'm in over my head, over my head."

thrival
04-06-2013, 01:11 AM
"Boring" is irrelevant. We are all emotional, it's part of being human. The issue for me is that of being rational vs. irrational. Panic is very emotional, and without a plan, causes people to make bad choices. Most people who commit crimes of passion, would also admit it was a mistake, after the fact. I read an interesting book years back, "Manhood in the Making (http://www.amazon.com/Manhood-Making-Cultural-Concepts-Masculinity/dp/0300050763)" which deals with the cultural influences and reasons behind why men are taught to stuff their feelings, or at least not wear them on their sleeves. It comes down to adopting certain roles that society values, i.e. protecter & providor, and the willingness to sacrifice one's own life when needed, the ability to "do the right thing" even when the feelings say otherwise. A lot of problems in human experience are caused by a lack of self-discipline. Love is shown by a person's actions, is more than just a "feeling." It has to come from personal expression, feelings that a person owns, not just because society says we should act a certain way. Right Philosophy helps a person understand why things are the way they are, and act accordingly.

Did you ever notice that some people don't give a damn how you feel? You are probably right in the assessment, their reasons may be more or less obvious.

solomon levi
04-06-2013, 11:32 AM
i was noticing this again tonight, this topic in my life, and saw the relation between persona/mask. so another way to discuss or approach the subject/question is...
does less persona/mask = less personality? my observations say yes.