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thrival
03-27-2013, 06:47 PM
OK, this is a request for help, if you feel the forum isn't a good place to post the answer, maybe you can private message me?

Glauber talked about the winged basilisk being nitre, but so far I've not encountered any references to the unwinged one. I thought given how the first represents the nitrogen cycle, the latter might be the carbon cycle. Carbon is as earthy and as much the stuff of life as nitrogen, frankly should have wings too IMO given is also a gas, but maybe wasn't recognized as such back then. Any insight on the second dragon, appreciated.

solomon levi
03-27-2013, 08:15 PM
Seems likely. Carbon as carbonates (calcium, potassium, sodium, etc...) are fixed alkalis = no wings.
Carbon as gas/exhalation is acidic and volatile.
Glauber saw that nitre too could be both volatile and fixed, acid and alkali, and thought it a mercury because of that.

basilisk (n.)
c.1300, from Latin basiliscus, from Greek basiliskos "little king," diminutive of basileus "king" (see Basil); said by Pliny to have been so called because of a crest or spot on its head resembling a crown.
The basilisk has since the fourteenth century been confused with the Cockatrice, and the subject is now a complicated one. [T.H. White, "The Bestiary. A Book of Beasts," 1954]
Its breath and glance were said to be fatal. The South American lizard so called (1813) because it, like the mythical beast, has a crest. Also used of a type of large cannon, throwing shot of 200 lb., from 1540s.

cockatrice (n.)
late 14c., from Old French cocatriz, altered (by influence of coq) from Late Latin *calcatrix, from Latin calcare "to tread" (from calx (1) "heel"), as translation of Greek ikhneumon, literally "tracker, tracer."

In classical writings, an Egyptian animal of some sort, the mortal enemy of the crocodile, which it tracks down and kills. This vague sense became hopelessly confused in the Christian West, and in England the word ended up applied to the equivalent of the basilisk. A serpent hatched from a cock's egg, it was fabled to kill by its glance and could be slain only by tricking it into seeing its own reflection. Belief in them persisted even among the educated because the word was used in the KJV several times to translate a Hebrew word for "serpent." In heraldry, a beast half cock, half serpent.

For heel, I've written some on Jacob (heel grabber) and Esau...
mostly through gematria, but you see here the relation of calcium carbonate and nitre:
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2451-The-Celestial-Agriculture/page27

But there is also the relation between nitre, phosphates and ammonia in urine as a subject.

There is also this thread, which I never got around to finishing. :)
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1669-The-Basilisk-and-the-Cockatrice

This is based on the silicate path. Note Glauber says there is gold in all sands and silicates like gemstones, agates, etc.

There has been lots of arguing in the past about what the crude subject is, but most likely it could be anything...
everything can be treated alchemically to be winged or wingless. So for each author we must follow the clues
they left to detect which path/materia they used.

Here is another argument for a phosphorus path...
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/archive/index.php/t-2727.html

Symbolically, nitre, an upright line in a circle, the male, is join with "sea salt", the horizontal line in a circle, to make our little king,
divine child. But there are many females/horizontals willing to receive nitre, to be a magnet...
Cyanide, ammonia, aqua regia, nitre fixed by charcoal, dew salt/ammonium nitrate...
Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon seduced lots of ladies. :)
If one is most preferable, I would look to the whore. She's just gotta have it. :)
But Mary is a virgin and a Magdalene, a mother and a lover...

Andro
03-27-2013, 08:27 PM
Glauber talked about the winged basilisk being nitre, but so far I've not encountered any references to the unwinged one. I thought given how the first represents the nitrogen cycle, the latter might be the carbon cycle. Carbon is as earthy and as much the stuff of life as nitrogen, frankly should have wings too IMO given is also a gas, but maybe wasn't recognized as such back then. Any insight on the second dragon, appreciated.

Specific matters aside, the UN-winged represents the fixed and the winged represents the volatile. It's that simple.
This applies to subjecting all sorts of matters to Alchemical processes.

The dragons generally convey principles, not specific matters/cycles (unless otherwise specified for describing particular applications, although the principles are generally still the same).

If (for example) you have a arrived at your two Dragons as a pure fixed Sulfur and a volatile Mercury - I'd say you've come a long way :)

Andro
03-27-2013, 08:47 PM
Zeus/Jupiter/Ammon seduced lots of ladies...

...and gentlemen... Let's not forget Ganymede (http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Ganymede.html) :)

(Although Hera wasn't particularly happy about this arrangement...)

solomon levi
03-27-2013, 09:24 PM
...and gentlemen... Let's not forget Ganymede (http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Mythology/Ganymede.html) :)

(Although Hera wasn't particularly happy about this arrangement...)

yes. interesting ganymede is translated as rejoicing in virility, but medea means 'counsels' among other things...
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=ganymede&searchmode=none

which i recently mentioned in Phrygian caps.
but yeah, symbolism! it's an Ouroborian labyrinth.

thrival
03-27-2013, 10:08 PM
Thank you Sol, for your excellent and chock-full-of-info reply.

Something else I wanted to ad, I can't seem to find an older web reference I read from the US Dept. of Agriculture about nitric & carbonic acids dissolving soil metals. The combination is apparently stronger than one alone. Also carbonic acid should have some mollifying aspects to the explosivity of nitric acid, given how the latter is an oxidizer and the former is a fire extinguisher. Somehow I would expect that the spirit of dew would contain both.

solomon levi
03-28-2013, 02:19 AM
you're welcome! i'm not familiar with this last thing you mentioned, though it reminds me of David Hudson pouring sulfuric acid on his sodium rich soils and discovering ormus.

thrival
03-28-2013, 03:21 AM
Sol:

Didn't want to waste space quoting your whole post above. Ammonium carbonate & bicarbonate do have wings, like most/all of the ammonia salts. Also I think the gur formed in dew is probably started by organic contaminants in the air. Rain forms around dirt particles, then there's pollen, bacteria, stuff getting blown around. The atmosphere is not a sterile environment.

solomon levi
03-28-2013, 09:01 AM
Sol:

Didn't want to waste space quoting your whole post above. Ammonium carbonate & bicarbonate do have wings, like most/all of the ammonia salts. Also I think the gur formed in dew is probably started by organic contaminants in the air. Rain forms around dirt particles, then there's pollen, bacteria, stuff getting blown around. The atmosphere is not a sterile environment.

yes, ammonia gives wings. ammonium carbonate is a volatile alkali.
i said nothing of gur. dew salt/ammonium nitrate is water soluble, not gur.